Question:

This isn’t much of a trip report.  No fancy destination, no flowery prose, just a working man’s day off fishing for bluegills. I have a few ’secret’ spots for coldwater fishing in Massachusetts, but there’s nothing secret on weekends.  I usually wait until Tuesday or Wednesday to go stream fishing, to give the fish a chance to recover from the weekend beating they take, and to avoid the crowds.  And if it’s raining, so much the better.  It’s like getting a tennis court back in the seventies during the tennis craze.  The only time you could get court time was when it was raining. So, I pass on the crowded streams, and go bluegill fishing.  That’s actually a misnomer: we have lots of panfish species, and it’s not possible to target one particular species, and there’s a lot of interbreeding, so it’s often hard to know what you’ve caught.  But the bluegills are the predominant species in most of the ponds I fish and so get the mention. Jimmy and I ‘found’ this pond about 5 years ago.  Note the Massachusetts use of the word found.  You don’t find anything around here that hasn’t been found by a couple hundred thousand people before you.  But this pond just happens to be about half way between our homes, and we decided at the last minute one evening several years ago, that all of our usual choices were too far for at least one of us, and we opted to meet in the middle to check out Ninemile.  Now we’re regulars. I have a long term fascination with developing the ultimate fly to use on Ninemile.  The pond has a small number of mayflies and caddis, but the predominant species are midges and the dragon and damselflies that feed on them.  We’ve done really well over the years using damselfly nymph imitations and the Ausable Wullf which I think looks like an emerging damselfly.  I did really well one night a few years ago with a floating damsel tied by Charlie Wilson for the 2000 Great Roff Flyswap http://gula.org/roffswaps/detail.php?page=FS2000&id=23 Since then I’ve been experimenting a lot with foam and this year I’ve been using variants of Gartside’s Gurgler.  Up until last Friday I had been experimenting with colors and tails and bodies trying to come up with something easy to tie, visible, durable (able to stand up to a couple hundred fish…), and successful.  Yesterday I made a breakthrough, and moved away from damsel imitations:  I made the Gurgle Frog.  If you’re in the DDFS 2002 swap, you’ll be getting one in the mail in a couple of weeks. The fly is extremely simple: a pair of grizzly hackles for a tail (tied splayed out to the sides – they pulse like legs when you pop the fly), chartreuse Estaz for the body, and green foam for the back and gurgler head. You can see the fly in use at http://gula.org/ninemile.html I caught 4 different species of fish last night, including a big white perch that jumped out of the lily pads as it grabbed my fly.  I got pictures of a couple of really beautiful fish: a bluegill and a pumpkinseed.  If you were ever confused by panfish identification, the pics should show the difference (at least in the males). http://gula.org/images/bluegill.jpg http://gula.org/images/pumpkin.jpg –Stan

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flowery prose, just a working man’s day off fishing for bluegills.

This is what we call brim fishing where I live in Texas. I am looking forward to receiving your fly and will copy it and let you know how it works around here. I hope you will give mine a try as well. I find that tails made of the fur cut off a zonker strip are more durable than any of the other tails that I have tried. Last week I had to order another thousand of the mustad 3366 size 8 hooks that I use for tying these foam bugs. It is kind of difficult to find a better hook…especialy at less than 26 bucks a thousand! I give a lot of these things away. Big Dale

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is what we call brim fishing where I live in Texas. I am looking forward to receiving your fly and will copy it and let you know how it works around here. I hope you will give mine a try as well. I find that tails made of the fur cut off a zonker strip are more durable than any of the other tails that I have tried. Last week I had to order another thousand of the mustad 3366 size 8 hooks that I use for tying these foam bugs. It is kind of difficult to find a better hook…especialy at less than 26 bucks a thousand! I give a lot of these things away. Big Dale

The generic name for all panfish here in the Connecticut Valley is ‘kivvers’.  ’Brim’ is the edge of your coffee mug<g. I can’t imagine buying a thousand hooks of one model.  Last summer I used a single Orange Woof (orange foam Ausable Wullf descendent) for almost two months… –Stan (taking ‘frugal yankee’ to the next level)

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Stan wrote :snipI can’t imagine buying a thousand hooks of one model.  Last summer I used a single Orange Woof (orange foam Ausable Wullf descendent) for almost two months…

I find that these flies are extremely durable and is I tie my knots well( a big if) and I don’t stick them in a tree, they will catch hundreds of fish, but I give most of them away and I also use that hook for tying skinny water clousers and Richard Hart’s Ghost Minnows as well. I also use all three patterns in salt water with those hooks and simply throw them away at the end of the day. Both the skinny water clousers and the ghost minnows are tied so sparsely that they don’t last long. I only tie simple guide type flies that catch lots of fish. Still most of the flies that I tie are given away to kids who watch me tie. It is a hell of a lot of fun. Big Dale Big Dale

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This isn’t much of a trip report.  No fancy destination, no flowery prose, just a working man’s day off fishing for bluegills.

…and that’s as well written a beginning to a tall tale as ol sam clemens could ever hope to deliver as an introduction to his fine and special journeys. thanks for letting me tag along.  it’s interesting to see the different coloring of panfish, and the bream, bluegills and crappie. those i’ve managed to surprise down here in nc have been as much fun to catch and admire as the bass and trout… plus, i usually can enjoy refreshments *during* the adventure. jeff

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This isn’t much of a trip report.  No fancy destination, no flowery prose, just a working man’s day off fishing for bluegills. I

        maudlin.         your friend in the old north state wayno

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[flowery prose snipped] You can see the fly in use at http://gula.org/ninemile.html

Well, barely. Any chance you could take a snap of one and post it up? tia /daytripper (Chillin’ on the Merrimack)

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You can see the fly in use at http://gula.org/ninemile.html Well, barely. Any chance you could take a snap of one and post it up?

Not immediately – I only tied two and I hung mine in a tree and Jim lost his in the weeds.  I’ll tie up some fresh ones later today (I committed to tying 17 for the swap) and I’ll try to take a picture.  Unfortunately, the camera I use is a cheap autofocus (Canon A40 – pretty nice small 2Mpixel) and it has trouble focusing on small items in macro mode (but I’m getting better at it).  I’m using Dave Price’s suggestion of using a gallon milk jug as a diffuser and putting a few hundred watts of light around it.  All I have to figure out is how to give the autofocus a bigger target.  One of my sample fly photos is at: http://gula.org/roffswaps/detail.php?page=DD2001&id=9 –Stan

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Unfortunately, the camera I use is a cheap autofocus (Canon A40 – pretty nice small 2Mpixel) and it has trouble focusing on small items in macro mode

How is the A40 on ‘grinning doofus’ shots? I’m thinking about getting one to take to the Henry’s Fork (in addition to my CoolPix 880) primarily because Canon makes a waterproof case for the A40 so I could carry it safely on stream. Thanks. — Charlie…

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can see the fly in use at http://gula.org/ninemile.html Well, barely. Any chance you could take a snap of one and post it up? Not immediately – I only tied two and I hung mine in a tree and Jim lost his in the weeds.  I’ll tie up some fresh ones later today (I committed to tying 17 for the swap) and I’ll try to take a picture.  Unfortunately, the camera I use is a cheap autofocus (Canon A40 – pretty nice small 2Mpixel) and it has trouble focusing on small items in macro mode (but I’m getting better at it).  I’m using Dave Price’s suggestion of using a gallon milk jug as a diffuser and putting a few hundred watts of light around it.  All I have to figure out is how to give the autofocus a bigger target.  One of my sample fly photos is at: http://gula.org/roffswaps/detail.php?page=DD2001&id=9 –Stan

Assuming you respect the focusing range of the camera, the rest is all a matter of contrast. But you can create contrast where there is little. Use a ruler and a black magic marker to draw a bunch of bold, parallel lines across a section of smooth white card stock. Space the lines by about a 1/4". With the fly in the vise and your camera on the tripod, hold the card on the vertical plane and parallel to the hook shank, anywhere in the camera frame. Half-press the shutter release and hold it there while you remove the card, then fully press the shutter release. Even better, use your camera’s remote release (if it has one)  to take the shot, to avoid the shakes. Note that some cameras use vertical features in the fov to autofocus, while others may use horizontal features. That’s an easy experiment to conduct (or you may rtfm, of course cheers /daytripper (more than one way to teach them electronics…)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Use a ruler and a black magic marker to draw a bunch of bold, parallel lines across a section of smooth white card stock. Space the lines by about a 1/4". With the fly in the vise and your camera on the tripod, hold the card on the vertical plane and parallel to the hook shank, anywhere in the camera frame. Half-press the shutter release and hold it there while you remove the card, then fully press the shutter release. Even better, use your camera’s remote release (if it has one)  to take the shot, to avoid the shakes. Note that some cameras use vertical features in the fov to autofocus, while others may use horizontal features. That’s an easy experiment to conduct (or you may rtfm, of course

Good suggestion.  I was trying some similar things.  The A40 has an autofocus lock button so you can set the focus (maybe) and move things around a little.  Also has two auto timers for avoiding the shakes.  A very nice little camera.  Also has manual overrides for everything except the focus… Thanks. –Stan

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Unfortunately, the camera I use is a cheap autofocus (Canon A40 – pretty nice small 2Mpixel) and it has trouble focusing on small items in macro mode How is the A40 on ‘grinning doofus’ shots? I’m thinking about getting one to take to the Henry’s Fork (in addition to my CoolPix 880) primarily because Canon makes a waterproof case for the A40 so I could carry it safely on stream. Thanks. — Charlie…

I really like the A40.  About the only negative thing I’ve read about it (and have experienced) is problems focusing on small items in macro mode (like flies…).  The fully auto mode makes pretty good picks for quick and dirty snapshots.  And it lets you manually set lots of things when you have the time.  Very easy controls. The waterproof case looks pretty bulky – and pricy. I also liked the Canon Elph S330.  It’s pretty similar for features, is smaller (truly pocket size), just slightly more money and also has a waterproof case option.  The only thing that pushed me to get the A40 was use of standard AA batteries so I can use off-the-shelf NiMH batteries. –Stan

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The waterproof case looks pretty bulky – and pricy. I also liked the Canon Elph S330.  It’s pretty similar for features, is smaller (truly pocket size), just slightly more money and also has a waterproof case option.  

Yeah, the case is a little bulky and pricey, but I hate to be in my kayak or on the water without a camera – and I seem to have misplaced my old Nikon Action Touch 35mm. I was able to handle the A40 case when I was in Tokyo last year and it’s not as bad as it looks in pictures, but definitely not ‘pocket sized’. — Charlie…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is what we call brim fishing where I live in Texas. I am looking forward to receiving your fly and will copy it and let you know how it works around here. I hope you will give mine a try as well. I find that tails made of the fur cut off a zonker strip are more durable than any of the other tails that I have tried. Last week I had to order another thousand of the mustad 3366 size 8 hooks that I use for tying these foam bugs. It is kind of difficult to find a better hook…especialy at less than 26 bucks a thousand! I give a lot of these things away. Big Dale The generic name for all panfish here in the Connecticut Valley is ‘kivvers’.  ’Brim’ is the edge of your coffee mug<g. I can’t imagine buying a thousand hooks of one model.  Last summer I used a single Orange Woof (orange foam Ausable Wullf descendent) for almost two months… –Stan (taking ‘frugal yankee’ to the next level)

Here in PA, they’re all Bluegills and Crappie – pronounced ‘Crap’ (like the stuff in your waders on the worst day of your fishing life), unless you don’t like fishing for, catching & possibly eating ‘Crap’ in which case it’s pronounced ‘Crawppie’ or ‘Croppie’. Down in NC, where I first heard the term ‘brim’ – actually, I believe that it’s spelled BREAM (pronounced ‘brim’) – it seems to apply to all panfish except Crappie (regardless of pronunciation). I’ll also second the "can’t imagine buying a thousand hooks of one model" sentiment.  DCWDFF, you must be one serious fly tyin’ maniac. Tom G never had that stuff in MY waders – yet

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one model" sentiment.  DCWDFF, you must be one serious fly tyin’ maniac.

Well, I do resemble that remark, but I must admit that it took me about three years to use the first thousand. All of those flies that I tied with them are very simple flies to tie, and all of the materials used in these patterns are very inexpensive. Big Dale

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<snipped post which was repeated 6 times Well if you tie flies like you post, you should go thru 1000 hooks a year easily.

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MY waders – yet obviously, you’ve not *yet* experienced a louie laplac breakfast…  it’s only a matter of time, so i’d recommend practicing speedy stream exits and wader drops… might wanna carry a roll of tp as well… the process of wetting and using your t-shirt puts some folks off… jeff

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MY waders – yet obviously, you’ve not *yet* experienced a louie laplac breakfast…  it’s only a matter of time, so i’d recommend practicing speedy stream exits and wader drops… might wanna carry a roll of tp as well… the process of wetting and using your t-shirt puts some folks off…

Some of us use socks……evidently this is not as off-putting.        :) Wolfgang who rests content in leaving some things behind.

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Some of us use socks……evidently this is not as off-putting.        :)

…i knew that damn thing i shook outta those socks was a corn kernel… Wolfgang who rests content in leaving some things behind.

having changed diapers of infants with serious "leaving behind" problems, squishy socks ain’t a problem… <g jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Question:

That’s a pretty little fish from a lovely looking stream!   Ian Scott http://www.about-flyfishing.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For anyone that’s interested take a look at my first fish of the year. Here is the baby that started that inspired the post. www.thefigs.net

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For anyone that’s interested take a look at my first fish of the year. Here is the baby that started that inspired the post. www.thefigs.net

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…..Valley Creek…….flows through Valley Forge National Park…….a perfect breeding ground for the Brownies, and they thrived, even in the shadow of the Philadelphia metropolis……

Damn!  I looked at that creek one time, about six or seven years ago. My sister’s back yard borders the park.  When I went to visit her I looked at the stream rather closely and thought that it might be an adequate habitat but…..nah, WAY too urban.  Damn! Wolfgang who hadn’t bothered to bring any fishing gear      :(

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Carlos!! First fish on a fly, on Valley Creek!!  Quite an accomplishment! My first trout came on an Olive Caddis Pupa (didn’t have a clue what it was then) on the Tulpehocken in Reading.  I was fortunate enough to be on that creek, which is quite wide, so I didn’t have to worry as much about catching the trees.  I did my share of churning up the water behind me, but would suggest the same approach to any new flyfisherman (just make sure to give yourself plenty of room between yourself and the trainee). As for Valley Creek, although I caught my first trout on the Tulpehocken, Valley Creek was my training ground (before and after).  For those of you who don’t know this creek,  The bottom section (the most productive) flows through Valley Forge National Park.  It’s a catch and release section of water due to PCB pollution from a train spill.  Although this event was unfortunate, it did force the DER to take this stream off of the stocking list.  Because of it’s limestone character, Valley Creek turned out to be a perfect breeding ground for the Brownies, and they thrived, even in the shadow of the Philadelphia metropolis.  These fish are quite "smart" though, because of the regs, and significant fishing pressure, they have been caught & released several, if not numerous, times.  The stream is not too wide (guessing an AVERAGE of 7-8 feet, but my comrade may correct me) and usually quite clear, so the approach can be quite tough.  There is a good population of midges on this creek, and the most prolific mayfly hatch is the Sulphur in May/June. Valley Forge Park itself is a nice place to take the family to learn about history, and to just take in the sites.  It is a very large park for it’s location close to the city, and there is a large contingent of deer in the park that can easily be seen in the morning and evenings (of course they are protected).  There’s plenty of room to spread out the picnic blanket, a paved recreation/walking trail flows throughout the park, but you can wander wherever you choose.  There’s also a nice bike trail along the Schuylkill River (Valley Creek empties into this river in the Park) that can lead you right into Center City Philadelphia if you have the energy (it’s 15-20 miles to Center City).   There is also a nice population of Smallmouth (in the River only) but it’s tough to fish ‘em unless you have a boat or float tube (guessing 200+ feet wide and cannot be crossed by foot). Although the average fish in this creek is probably 10-14 inches at best,  I’ve caught 20+ inch Browns in this creek, and have seen a few 25+, at the right time of year.  If you plan on visiting the Park make sure to pack the fly gear. A basic pair of hippers should get you by, remember to keep in the shadows, and tread softly, The Finn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

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Yes, this is all true. The creek from what I was told is extremly hard to fish. I felt very lucky to catch one on my second visit there. I am actually moving in the summer about 15 min. from Tuplehocken, I have not fished there yet but have heard some great things about it. Valley Creek and French Creek are currently my home waters until June. Are there any tips about Tuplehocken that I can use, especially since it will be my new home waters.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carlos!! First fish on a fly, on Valley Creek!!  Quite an accomplishment! My first trout came on an Olive Caddis Pupa (didn’t have a clue what it was then) on the Tulpehocken in Reading.  I was fortunate enough to be on that creek, which is quite wide, so I didn’t have to worry as much about catching the trees.  I did my share of churning up the water behind me, but would suggest the same approach to any new flyfisherman (just make sure to give yourself plenty of room between yourself and the trainee). As for Valley Creek, although I caught my first trout on the Tulpehocken, Valley Creek was my training ground (before and after).  For those of you who don’t know this creek,  The bottom section (the most productive) flows through Valley Forge National Park.  It’s a catch and release section of water due to PCB pollution from a train spill.  Although this event was unfortunate, it did force the DER to take this stream off of the stocking list.  Because of it’s limestone character, Valley Creek turned out to be a perfect breeding ground for the Brownies, and they thrived, even in the shadow of the Philadelphia metropolis.  These fish are quite "smart" though, because of the regs, and significant fishing pressure, they have been caught & released several, if not numerous, times.  The stream is not too wide (guessing an AVERAGE of 7-8 feet, but my comrade may correct me) and usually quite clear, so the approach can be quite tough.  There is a good population of midges on this creek, and the most prolific mayfly hatch is the Sulphur in May/June. Valley Forge Park itself is a nice place to take the family to learn about history, and to just take in the sites.  It is a very large park for it’s location close to the city, and there is a large contingent of deer in the park that can easily be seen in the morning and evenings (of course they are protected).  There’s plenty of room to spread out the picnic blanket, a paved recreation/walking trail flows throughout the park, but you can wander wherever you choose.  There’s also a nice bike trail along the Schuylkill River (Valley Creek empties into this river in the Park) that can lead you right into Center City Philadelphia if you have the energy (it’s 15-20 miles to Center City).   There is also a nice population of Smallmouth (in the River only) but it’s tough to fish ‘em unless you have a boat or float tube (guessing 200+ feet wide and cannot be crossed by foot). Although the average fish in this creek is probably 10-14 inches at best,  I’ve caught 20+ inch Browns in this creek, and have seen a few 25+, at the right time of year.  If you plan on visiting the Park make sure to pack the fly gear. A basic pair of hippers should get you by, remember to keep in the shadows, and tread softly, The Finn I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

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nice’un matt… my first was discovered in lost cove creek.  i continue to this day to be the recipient of the meager crumbs offered by ol pj, who for some misguided reason carted my ass along on one of his wayno-less forays into lost cove creek in 1979 or 1980. on our way through morganton, i bought a fenwick fiberglass rod and a martin reel.  back then you could drive the goat trail to the creek…if you didn’t care about the underbody.  as i recall, jim showed me a knot, gave me 2 yellow humpies, and said – "there’s the stream, the fish are in it, good luck"… leaving me to flog about in lonely but uncriticized desperation, he then went way upstream to the sassafrass area.  i waded, slid into the water with my rubber-sole hip boots (yeah, he thought that was funny too – jim’s got a dangerous sense of funny – i soon discovered the humor, painfully so).  but, i caught a trout in a riffle right in front of me.    don’t have any idea what it was, but it hooked me and i’ve been wigglin happy on the hook ever since. to this day, i consider pj’s gift of the stream second only to the grace of marriage to my wife rachel. jeff (who’s formal education in trout streams didn’t begin until i matriculated with wally and some of this crowd) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career. My freshman year at Appalachian State found me far from friends and family, "trapped" in the mountains of N.C., with no drivers license and only my mountain bike to get around. The state of PA had decided that it would be safer for my fellow citizens if I went without a license for a few years, so I pedaled my ass everywhere. This sounds pretty healthy, until you’re faced with a two mile ride home after last call. Anyway, I had studied up on Boone for a few years while living in Chapel Hill and had a long list of streams scoped out well before I was able to move there. I had dog eared guide books, a pile of coffee stained topos and a long overdue North Carolina coffee table book (sorry Chapel Hill Public Library) that would ultimately lead me to some North Carolina Brookies.     I arrived in time for the spring semester and waited out the winter for my first Carolina Mountain spring. It did arrive eventually, but by that time I was hellbent on catching some trout. Over the winter I had made ‘friends’ with a neighbor of mine whose dad had exiled him to the mountains for an out of control cocaine and hooker habit, which he financed with his dad’s Visa. True story, nice guy, but a little "troubled". The gist of  the story is that the guy’s grandfather had given him a few cane rods. First time I laid eyes on that Abercrombie and Fitch ( he wouldn’t part with the Orvis, even after months of badgering) a deal was struck. I was out one Yamaha receiver and the proud owner of my first bamboo rod. This was a really big deal at the time and could only mean good things in my quest for Brookies.      By the blue lines on my topo, the nearest stream to my hole-in-the-wall basement apt. was Winklers Creek. In the heat of the summer, this stream plays host to naked hippy chicks who sun themselves on the rocks. My first trip there was far too chilly for that type of thing but later in the year I had quite a few pleasant days out. Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike, made a quick stop at Peabody’s to grab a few pints for the event, and hit the stream. I put in at the "swimming pool" where I cast the A&F on water for the first time. She was heavy, but had a nice feel, and I soon had the rhythm down enough to get moving and catch some fish. Not twenty feet upstream from the "swimming pool" was a smaller pool, banked by huge boulders on all sides and covered by a canopy of spring greenery. I had sense enough at the time to sneak up on my quarry and managed to find a spot hidden from the pool where I could sit with a pint and relax while I scanned for risers. I barely had a gulp of beer down before I saw my first sign of life. A trout rose in a flash from the bottom, swirled, and engulfed a small sulfur. It was the type of rise that says, "throw me your sloppiest, splashiest cast and I’ll still eat the fly". I sat there for maybe a minute or two, slammed half my beer and then slinked down the the tail of the pool. I took position where could peer over a boulder and pick my victim. The fish were rising sporadically but persistently and before too long I let loose with my cast. The 9 foot cane rod was huge for this stream but handled the line beautifully. My cast dropped perfectly on the water. Of course, like in any good fishing story, the fish rose from the bottom gnashed down on the fly and headed for deeper water. I heaved back, set the hook, and proceeded to land my first North Carolina Brookie. I have since felt similiar emotions, but only rarely, and only when something happens that makes me think "it could *never*  get any better than this". McCray It took me a while to remember the first one, even tho it was less than 3 years ago.  I had to refer back to old messages & posts to finally pin it down.  The first one for me also represented another milestone, of sorts: it was without any ambiguity the smallest striped bass I have ever seen, somewhere around 9 inches or so.  It took a 10 and a half foot 9 weight to tame him  :-) I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

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    Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind

Good story Matt. Willi

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That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight. Touch and go the whole time, eh?

BTW, Jeff, sometimes to add excitement to the fish-landing activity I’ll loosen my reel seat just enough while fishing so that hooking a fish causes the reel to fall off into the water. Makes an otherwise average fish seem like a *monster*. Just another of those tricks I learned from a fellow ROFFian. ‘Course seeing as you are the one who *taught* me that trick I guess you already know it. –Steve

Response:

Yeah – I ’bout died of exhaustion. Must have had to fight the monster for 30 seconds, but time went by so slow it seemed like a whole minute or two. — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Welcome to this perfidious hobby! Your family and friends have my sympathy. My first ever fish on a fly was a rainbow caught on an orange cow dung fly beside the picnic area at Snowbird creek almost seventeen years ago. I had a $60 Daiwa 7-weight fly rod and some kind of Cortland reel. That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight.  Touch and go the whole time, eh?

Response:

That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight. Touch and go the whole time, eh? BTW, Jeff, sometimes to add excitement to the fish-landing activity I’ll loosen my reel seat just enough while fishing so that hooking a fish causes the reel to fall off into the water. Makes an otherwise average fish seem like a

*monster*. alright, alright….

Response:

Congratulations! My first fish on a fly was a chub.  I hated chub.  This stupid chub, which was sitting in a pool with a few brook trout, took my wooley bugger that I was told would catch me lots of brook trout.  The chub dang near devoured the whole fly.   I really dislike fish that make squeaking noises when you’re trying to dislodge a hook from it’s mouth.  I can never get over that. Spooks me too much to hear this ugly looking thing make noises while I’ve got the forceps in its mouth.  Gives me the shivers. I almost gave up on fly fishing after that.  I was about 15 years old, and had the impression that the only fish I could catch on a fly were beautiful trout.   Thankfully, I’ve discovered that’s not true.  I still can’t deal with the freakin squeeks of a chub though. Ian Scott http://www.about-flyfishing.com/

Response:

nice story matt…… i crossed winkler’s yesterday on a trip into boone. the ice has melted and i thought about the times when we used to fish that lil ole feeder stream that flows into winklers….. mebbe i’ll go back there this year. we’re getting rain today…. unbelievable, maybe 6 inches of snow this season total. i’m gonna head out somewhere today if the rains let up…. thinkin’ about high up on the watauga. see ya in pa, –walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career. My freshman year at Appalachian State found me far from friends and family, "trapped" in the mountains of N.C., with no drivers license and only my mountain bike to get around. The state of PA had decided that it would be safer for my fellow citizens if I went without a license for a few years, so I pedaled my ass everywhere. This sounds pretty healthy, until you’re faced with a two mile ride home after last call. Anyway, I had studied up on Boone for a few years while living in Chapel Hill and had a long list of streams scoped out well before I was able to move there. I had dog eared guide books, a pile of coffee stained topos and a long overdue North Carolina coffee table book (sorry Chapel Hill Public Library) that would ultimately lead me to some North Carolina Brookies.     I arrived in time for the spring semester and waited out the winter for my first Carolina Mountain spring. It did arrive eventually, but by that time I was hellbent on catching some trout. Over the winter I had made ‘friends’ with a neighbor of mine whose dad had exiled him to the mountains for an out of control cocaine and hooker habit, which he financed with his dad’s Visa. True story, nice guy, but a little "troubled". The gist of  the story is that the guy’s grandfather had given him a few cane rods. First time I laid eyes on that Abercrombie and Fitch ( he wouldn’t part with the Orvis, even after months of badgering) a deal was struck. I was out one Yamaha receiver and the proud owner of my first bamboo rod. This was a really big deal at the time and could only mean good things in my quest for Brookies.      By the blue lines on my topo, the nearest stream to my hole-in-the-wall basement apt. was Winklers Creek. In the heat of the summer, this stream plays host to naked hippy chicks who sun themselves on the rocks. My first trip there was far too chilly for that type of thing but later in the year I had quite a few pleasant days out. Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike, made a quick stop at Peabody’s to grab a few pints for the event, and hit the stream. I put in at the "swimming pool" where I cast the A&F on water for the first time. She was heavy, but had a nice feel, and I soon had the rhythm down enough to get moving and catch some fish. Not twenty feet upstream from the "swimming pool" was a smaller pool, banked by huge boulders on all sides and covered by a canopy of spring greenery. I had sense enough at the time to sneak up on my quarry and managed to find a spot hidden from the pool where I could sit with a pint and relax while I scanned for risers. I barely had a gulp of beer down before I saw my first sign of life. A trout rose in a flash from the bottom, swirled, and engulfed a small sulfur. It was the type of rise that says, "throw me your sloppiest, splashiest cast and I’ll still eat the fly". I sat there for maybe a minute or two, slammed half my beer and then slinked down the the tail of the pool. I took position where could peer over a boulder and pick my victim. The fish were rising sporadically but persistently and before too long I let loose with my cast. The 9 foot cane rod was huge for this stream but handled the line beautifully. My cast dropped perfectly on the water. Of course, like in any good fishing story, the fish rose from the bottom gnashed down on the fly and headed for deeper water. I heaved back, set the hook, and proceeded to land my first North Carolina Brookie. I have since felt similiar emotions, but only rarely, and only when something happens that makes me think "it could *never*  get any better than this". McCray It took me a while to remember the first one, even tho it was less than 3 years ago.  I had to refer back to old messages & posts to finally pin it down.  The first one for me also represented another milestone, of sorts: it was without any ambiguity the smallest striped bass I have ever seen, somewhere around 9 inches or so.  It took a 10 and a half foot 9 weight to tame him  :-) I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

– Tight Lines, –Walt Fly Fishing NC & more… http://www.ezflyfish.com http://www.wilsoncreekoutfitters.com

Response:

Welcome to this perfidious hobby! Your family and friends have my sympathy. My first ever fish on a fly was a rainbow caught on an orange cow dung fly beside the picnic area at Snowbird creek almost seventeen years ago. I had a $60 Daiwa 7-weight fly rod and some kind of Cortland reel. The really neat thing was that I caught it on a dry fly and got to see the fish rise and take the fly. I don’t know why I picked Snowbird instead of a more convenient stream, but that was it. — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

I was bullied into trying a fly rod by my fishing partner one day about 12 years ago and my first fish as a brightly spotted brookie about 4" long, caught on what I think was a little bloody butcher. All of which sounds fine, until you realize I was using a 10′ 7wt rod and fishing for steelhead (lake run rainbows?) at the time…… Things have improved a little since. It was a pretty fish though, and it remains the only brookie I have ever caught on a fly. Vaughan

Response:

I started fly-fishing with a two-handed European-style salmon rod. (Most of the guys in our unofficial fishing club prefer salmon fishing nowadays.) The first catch was a 4" salmon parr from river Gaula in Norway. — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

Response:

Welcome to this perfidious hobby! Your family and friends have my sympathy. My first ever fish on a fly was a rainbow caught on an orange cow dung fly beside the picnic area at Snowbird creek almost seventeen years ago. I had a $60 Daiwa 7-weight fly rod and some kind of Cortland reel.

That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight.  Touch and go the whole time, eh?

Response:

I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories. I was bullied into trying a fly rod by my fishing partner one day about 12 years ago and my first fish as a brightly spotted brookie about 4" long, caught on what I think was a little bloody butcher. All of which sounds fine, until you realize I was using a 10′ 7wt rod…

Well that puts RWP’s fish battle to shame, doesn’t it?

Response:

Lissen here – that was an epic battle. Me and my stick versus the cunning slimy carnivorous predator! — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories. I was bullied into trying a fly rod by my fishing partner one day about 12 years ago and my first fish as a brightly spotted brookie about 4" long, caught on what I think was a little bloody butcher. All of which sounds fine, until you realize I was using a 10′ 7wt rod… Well that puts RWP’s fish battle to shame, doesn’t it?

Response:

    Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career. My freshman year at Appalachian State found me far from friends and family, "trapped" in the mountains of N.C., with no drivers license and only my mountain bike to get around. The state of PA had decided that it would be safer for my fellow citizens if I went without a license for a few years, so I pedaled my ass everywhere. This sounds pretty healthy, until you’re faced with a two mile ride home after last call. Anyway, I had studied up on Boone for a few years while living in Chapel Hill and had a long list of streams scoped out well before I was able to move there. I had dog eared guide books, a pile of coffee stained topos and a long overdue North Carolina coffee table book (sorry Chapel Hill Public Library) that would ultimately lead me to some North Carolina Brookies.     I arrived in time for the spring semester and waited out the winter for my first Carolina Mountain spring. It did arrive eventually, but by that time I was hellbent on catching some trout. Over the winter I had made ‘friends’ with a neighbor of mine whose dad had exiled him to the mountains for an out of control cocaine and hooker habit, which he financed with his dad’s Visa. True story, nice guy, but a little "troubled". The gist of  the story is that the guy’s grandfather had given him a few cane rods. First time I laid eyes on that Abercrombie and Fitch ( he wouldn’t part with the Orvis, even after months of badgering) a deal was struck. I was out one Yamaha receiver and the proud owner of my first bamboo rod. This was a really big deal at the time and could only mean good things in my quest for Brookies.      By the blue lines on my topo, the nearest stream to my hole-in-the-wall basement apt. was Winklers Creek. In the heat of the summer, this stream plays host to naked hippy chicks who sun themselves on the rocks. My first trip there was far too chilly for that type of thing but later in the year I had quite a few pleasant days out. Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike, made a quick stop at Peabody’s to grab a few pints for the event, and hit the stream. I put in at the "swimming pool" where I cast the A&F on water for the first time. She was heavy, but had a nice feel, and I soon had the rhythm down enough to get moving and catch some fish. Not twenty feet upstream from the "swimming pool" was a smaller pool, banked by huge boulders on all sides and covered by a canopy of spring greenery. I had sense enough at the time to sneak up on my quarry and managed to find a spot hidden from the pool where I could sit with a pint and relax while I scanned for risers. I barely had a gulp of beer down before I saw my first sign of life. A trout rose in a flash from the bottom, swirled, and engulfed a small sulfur. It was the type of rise that says, "throw me your sloppiest, splashiest cast and I’ll still eat the fly". I sat there for maybe a minute or two, slammed half my beer and then slinked down the the tail of the pool. I took position where could peer over a boulder and pick my victim. The fish were rising sporadically but persistently and before too long I let loose with my cast. The 9 foot cane rod was huge for this stream but handled the line beautifully. My cast dropped perfectly on the water. Of course, like in any good fishing story, the fish rose from the bottom gnashed down on the fly and headed for deeper water. I heaved back, set the hook, and proceeded to land my first North Carolina Brookie. I have since felt similiar emotions, but only rarely, and only when something happens that makes me think "it could *never*  get any better than this". McCray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It took me a while to remember the first one, even tho it was less than 3 years ago.  I had to refer back to old messages & posts to finally pin it down.  The first one for me also represented another milestone, of sorts: it was without any ambiguity the smallest striped bass I have ever seen, somewhere around 9 inches or so.  It took a 10 and a half foot 9 weight to tame him  :-) I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike…

Yeah, I hear dat….

Response:

   Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career.

        boys, i have fished for thirty years in the blue ridge, and i have seen exactly three folks who can do it as well as this guy. thanks for pulling back the veil on your first time, mccrayfish.         the down side is, it will get much tougher the older you get. the blue ridge is not a gentle partner. your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

 With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

        well, with deepest regret i must admit that your story is far more heroic than mine.         i signed up to work for a law firm in greensboro, nc, in the fall of 1969.  one of the partners was a guy who is still one of my best friends, a yankee from uptstate new york, around the roscoe area. i had fished with a fly rod since i was 9 or 10, but only for warm water fish.  he suggested a trip to the catskills, and there we were: the beaverkill, the willowemoc, harry darby, walt dette, all that yankee folklore…and it was really neat.  but the first fish i caught was a 6 inch brown, hauled in on the end of a muddler minnow, on the east branch of the delaware, a long way from the crystal waters that would become my home, just a year or so from then.  but that’s another story, with another friend. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

"Carlos Figueroa" wrote… I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Your story is better than mine.  The first fish I caught on a fly was a 3" Bluegill 23 years ago.  But I can safely say it’s been all up hill from there. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

    My first was a ten inch brook trout on a size 8 hopper. I was lucky enough to spend my younger years in a town with many good trout streams within biking distance, and caught this one on a little spring creek that ran behind the IGA.     It was great growing up with 3 trout streams within 15min bike ride of my house, and once I got the hang of the fly rod, there were some dandy Bull trout to be had. With the ban on bulls in Alberta, I’d bet some of my old fishin’ grounds have some dandy bulls (Although I once found a dead 34" bull under the bridge, so even then there were some hogs).     Robbie

Response:

Question:

speechless. I am going to take that statement with a huge pile of salt. I have never seen the time a trial lawyer was speechless.

Hm…..now that you mention it Dale, speechless and incoherent really AREN’T synonymous, are they?   Don’t let this get around, you do have a reputation to maintain.

And we aim to do all the maintenance required. Wayno:Looking forward to seeing you in about a week.

Ditto, in spades. Big Dale

You too Dale. Wolfgang

Response:

Much appreciated Vincent.Maybe I’ll try one on the Housatonic, Columbus day.I’ll definitely bring a few of those litle Olive thingamajigs as well. Regards,Flypaint(Shawn) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would have tried a Patriot but I’m not sure what it is. Regards,Flypaint (Shawn) Hook:      Mustad 94833, sizes 10 – 18 Thread:    Red Tails:       Brown hackle fibers Body:      Smolt blue Krystal Flash wound around shank, with                a "belt" of red thread, like a Royal Coachman Wings:    White impala or calf tail, divided Hackle:    Brown from Meck’s _Patterns, Hatches, Tactics, and Trout_, pp.  197-8. vince norris

Response:

…..Asadi stayed until Monday morning.  I wonder if he ever found the Home for Wayward Amish girls?…..

Um…….guys…….it’s a painful memory and I don’t like to dredge it up but I seen Asadi take a shower on the shore of Lake Wolfgang gotta go now…..gotta wash out my brain

Response:

Um…….guys…….it’s a painful memory and I don’t like to dredge it up but I seen Asadi take a shower on the shore of Lake Wolfgang gotta go now…..gotta wash out my brain

Aggggh!  Good lord, now ya gone and done it.  I’ll have nightmares for weeks. Natty

Response:

Natty was on a mission Sunday morning,and I hope he picked up a couple of nice fish before he left and thanks again for inviting me to the inn.

Only managed one small brown on a trico that DavePA gave me just before his departure.  Weirdest thing…the trico hatch was confined to a 20-30 yard stretch of the river.  Either side of that, nothing but the size 72 cream midges. Glad you could make it Shawn…had a great time.  Sorry about the buzzsaw. Things that stand out: a lot of talk about farm-women and personal flotation devices,amish co-eds,sounds that are like snoring(leaf blowers,lawn mowers,outboard engines

etc.),newborns,small fish on big flies,and Jack Daniels.Some much needed comic relief, thanks again fellas. Regards,Flypaint (Shawn)

Asadi stayed until Monday morning.  I wonder if he ever found the Home for Wayward Amish girls?  It really was a laugh. Natty

Response:

speechless.  

I am going to take that statement with a huge pile of salt. I have never seen the time a trial lawyer was speechless. Don’t let this get around, you do have a reputation to maintain. Wayno:Looking forward to seeing you in about a week. Big Dale

Response:

I would have tried a Patriot but I’m not sure what it is. Regards,Flypaint (Shawn)

Hook:      Mustad 94833, sizes 10 – 18 Thread:    Red Tails:       Brown hackle fibers Body:      Smolt blue Krystal Flash wound around shank, with                a "belt" of red thread, like a Royal Coachman Wings:    White impala or calf tail, divided Hackle:    Brown from Meck’s _Patterns, Hatches, Tactics, and Trout_, pp.  197-8. vince norris

Response:

Shawn,   It was great meeting you, glad you got a chance to fish after that tire debacle on Saturday.                                   Tom

Response:

@mb-mj.aol.com: Nice report Tom. I’m looking forward to next spring. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

As am I.  I would love to do one of these fall trips (especially Dave L’s), but Fall is my big teaching semester. Scott

Response:

Hey All,   I’m glad I was finally able to make it to a ROFF gathering ,even if it was only a mini one.I’m looking forward to the May, Penns gathering even if I can only make it for a three day weekend.Nice bunch of guys to hang out and fish with.Asadi wins the hospitality award hands down(and biggest rock bass).I picked up a lot of good tips watching these fellows fish and Tom might be interested to know that I dug around in my box until I found a small olive whatchamacall it and grabbed a nice brown just below the riffle at the end of tunnel road.I would have tried a Patriot but I’m not sure what it is.(is the pattern posted anywhere?)Natty was on a mission Sunday morning,and I hope he picked up a couple of nice fish before he left and thanks again for inviting me to the inn.Things that stand out: a lot of talk about farm-women and personal flotation devices,amish co-eds,sounds that are like snoring(leaf blowers,lawn mowers,outboard engines etc.),newborns,small fish on big flies,and Jack Daniels.Some much needed comic relief, thanks again fellas. Regards,Flypaint (Shawn)

Response:

. We ended the day with an enchilada dinner, courtesy of John B. Drank an assortment of wonderful beers, and some of Johns Budweiser as well.

        good god.  asadi drinks *budweiser*?  i am rendered speechless.           it’s somewhat akin to discovering that mahatma gandhi spent his spare time reading superman comics. wayno, crestfallen in the old north state

Response:

Nice report Tom. I’m looking forward to next spring. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

wayno notes: good god.  asadi drinks *budweiser*?  i am rendered speechless.  

he doesn’t actually drink it, that I noticed. Just tries to foist it onto the unsuspecting. Also, it comes in handy after DavePA comes over and blows through the Bass Ale supply.                               Tom

Response:

Yeungling!  John, you’re in PA, gotta drink Yeungling.  My God man, have you no shame? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – wayno notes: good god.  asadi drinks *budweiser*?  i am rendered speechless. he doesn’t actually drink it, that I noticed. Just tries to foist it onto the unsuspecting. Also, it comes in handy after DavePA comes over and blows through the Bass Ale supply.                               Tom

Response:

   Well folks, a small, but noble, crew showed up at Coburn, PA this weekend. First to arrive(on Thursday), were John Baker(asadi), Mike Pitch(natty b),Mike Shaw(handyman) and Shawn ?(flypaint). Fishing was said to be fair, but will allow them the details at some later date.    Friday brought the rest of the arrivals, DavePA and friend Jeff, Allan Epps, with spouse and dog. The latter crew, I had never met. They proved to be pleasant and seemed to like the locale. The fishing Friday was quite good. Water levels were lower than May’s by a good foot or two. It was a great opportunity to study the underwater layout of the place. Hatches consisted of: Blue Quills, Little Olives, a couple types of craneflies, some decent caddis of a couple types and a smattering of Slate Drakes. These were accompanied by a virtual snowstorm of pale midges, roughly in a size 52, were one to attempt a size match. At any rate, I found success by throwing a pair of very small wet flies to visible feeders. The fly to use for this proved to be a #18 olive wet fly. This pattern took 11 of my trout over the weekend, my best producer. By contrast, Mike Shaw was taking a equal number of opportunistic risers with a #12 Patriot, for whatever reason. Success seemed largely due to the fact that Mike is steadily improving his cast placement, and was sending the things right to the fish properly. Others reported varying success. We ended the day with an enchilada dinner, courtesy of John B. Drank an assortment of wonderful beers, and some of Johns Budweiser as well. Dave took pictures of the assembly which I hope he posts someplace. Well, he can leave out the facial closeup of me in which I looked like I was on the back end of a two week drunk.   Saturday, the fishing proved tougher, but most caught fish, generally on the small stuff. I did manage a couple of Browns on Dun Variants during a short burst of drakes. A chilly, breezy day, it was nonetheless beautiful in Penns Valley, with numerous bird sighting, mink running about. No bears seen. Dinner was at the Millheim, in the bar, over copious amounts of Yeungling Lager.   Sunday started out foggy, due to the Yeungling, no doubt. Actually, it was clear, and cold. Air temp of 36 at 7 am. After a quick talk with campground owners, and a fine breakfast with John, I joined Mike Shaw below Elk Creek to fish some pocket water with nymphs. Shawn checked in, having taken the largest fish of the weekend(a 17 incher) very early am with a Black Wooly bugger. Winds made for tough work nymphing, so we decided to depart and give the fish a break. The rest of the crew were either packing to go or fishing upstream. It was truly great to see you all, and will help whet the appetite until the May Clave.                                                         Tom

Response:

Question:

I want to get a book that contains fly fishing knots for both fresh and salt water use. I know that lefty kreh and mark sosin have a book out called practical fishing knots and practical fishing knots II. What is the difference between these books. which one is better for fly fishing knots? any response would be appreciated.                                 Dave

Response:

Practical Fishing Knots II is the 2nd edition of Practical Fishing Knots. It’s an excellent book. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to get a book that contains fly fishing knots for both fresh and salt water use. I know that lefty kreh and mark sosin have a book out called practical fishing knots and practical fishing knots II. What is the difference between these books. which one is better for fly fishing knots? any response would be appreciated. Dave

Response:

No offense to Lefty and Mark, they are tops. However, their books on knots, while best sellers are sort of twisted. Just try tying a Bimini twist for the first time with one knee as stated in their instructions. You can get better basic info for the majority of knots for free by writing Ande Monofilament, 1310 53rd St. West Palm Beach, FL 33407…. Much better instructions. Bob Elliott, Rochester, NY (no connection to Ande) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to get a book that contains fly fishing knots for both fresh and salt water use. I know that lefty kreh and mark sosin have a book out called practical fishing knots and practical fishing knots II. What is the difference between these books. which one is better for fly fishing knots? any response would be appreciated.                                 Dave

Response:

 Knots on the Web (Peter Suber) is a great site with eveything you could ever want to know about all kinds of knots.  It’s one of those pages that makes you say "WOW, I had no idea THIS many people were fascinated by KNOTS!"   From there, you can find specific pages that meet your needs and interests.  Try using your browser to search the page for the word "fish" if you don’t feel like scan the page manually for fishing-related knot pages.  There are several that are fly fishing-specific. In case your news reader doesn’t support html, the URL is: http://www.earlham.edu/~peters/knotlink.htm Hope it helps, Joe Bollinger – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to get a book that contains fly fishing knots for both fresh and salt water use. I know that lefty kreh and mark sosin have a book out called practical fishing knots and practical fishing knots II. What is the difference between these books. which one is better for fly fishing knots? any response would be appreciated.                                 Dave

Response:

Question:

The laws should be changed about land owners owning the stream and the government should begin purchasing a 100′ strip of property along all streams. This would prevent property owners from dumping unwanted substances into our waters and polluting them.  It is time we started treating our streams like the valuable resource they are.

        that was taken from Ernie’s Post and somehow i dont read PUBLIC land into that snip. I read private land.  if you read it you will find 100′ strip  on ALL streams.  Im taking the post as its said. and im aware of BLM leasing to ranches. and yes i feel that the those public streams need help but Ernie states ALL streams.         I can get into seizure of private land but this isnt a place for that discussion.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ernie was referring to PUBLIC lands. Out West large tracts of public lands are leased to ranches for very small fees.  I also think that these leasees should be be required to care for OUR land.  On a number of these leases that I’m personally aware of, these leasees try to illegally keep the public off these public lands by posting No Trespassing signs. Some leasees routinely place many more animals on the leased land than the lease allows. Imposing & enforcing regulations on this group is very difficult.  In many areas of the West, they are a large group with alot of political clout. There have been articles in Audubon Magazine about these abuses. I also agree with you concerning land owners rights. Many of our rights as land owners are being threatened. The vast majority of land owners care for the own land far better than the public does for our public land. I’m in favor of tax incentives, grants etc. given to landowners to encourage good conservation practices, like you suggested. Willi

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dan, and others…. I am not a member of the game commission, but do know the policies of the DGIF of Virginia on these matters …. am past president of one of the chapters of Trout Unlimited and have had discussions with the DGIF and some of their board members on this topic…. So it is the policy of DGIF to discontinue stocking on sections of streams as they become posted…..   Will still stock above and below if not posted. The right of peaceful passage on any stream that will support boat traffic (canoes) is always available.   In case of land owner ship, but state stocked waters and the land owner owns both pieces… especially if a Land Grant dating from 1759 from King George you may not fish, anchor, step on the stream bottom or do anything but pass.   In cases where the land is owned but not a land grant you may stay in the stream and fish, but not get on the bank…  We have just had a big case resolved here in Virginia over this issue…..   so if someone tells you this is land grant property….. don’t argue… just say excuse me and move on… Best case is to take a gift to the land owner and ask permission…. works everytime. I don’t have any problem with any landowner posting property that had been stocked in the past and the state then discontinuing stocking… Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*I haven’t heard for a while, but it used to be in Pennsylvania that to be

allowed to wade legally, the waterway had to be classified as a "navigatible waterway". This meaning that the body of water was open to larger boat traffic, such as tugs, barges, etc.  This also included legally passing over on any type of boat as well as wading. These smaller waterways are owned to the middle of the river or creek, unless both sides are owned by the same person. I have never heard of this being changed.                                       Jim

Response:

<snipAll streams should be fenced 100′ back from the edge to prevent cattle and sheep  from destroying them.

Where would the cattle and sheep drink? <snip Human access should be provided at convenient intervals in the form of  domestic animal proof gates.

My experience has been that the gate would be left open frequently, allowing the livestock to enter anyway. <snip It is time we started treating our streams like the valuable resource they are.

True, but we need to remember that there are more issues than fish. Unless we all forsake meat forever, livestock must be raised somewhere. The American west is a source of a rich heritage to many of us. I was born a cowboy, but I chose to become a fly fisher. There are many facets to the issues being discussed here, and the commments that you have made here overlooks most of them. Jeff Runner

Response:

Canoe access would probably be fine on streams and rivers.  The question usually arises on lakes and ponds, which Maine is full of, including hundreds which support only trout.  Many of these are wild populations, but many with silty bottoms require stocking.  The public is guaranteed access to a "great pond" over 10 acres in size, but that doesn’t mean you can even walk down a road to get there.  The whole issue has never been seriously challenged in court.  I believe any pond with vehicular access which is not granted to the public would not be stocked under the present policy.  I’ve strayed off the subject a bit, but access is sure to become a hot issue in Maine in the coming decades. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well does access mean total public access or does canoe/boat put in count? just curious In Maine, the Department of Inland Fisheries & Wildlife has a clear policy that they will not stock fish where public access is not allowed.

Response:

Where would the cattle and sheep drink?

Access to water would be provided at controlled points. My experience has been that the gate would be left open frequently, allowing the livestock to enter anyway.

There is animal proof access such as turnstiles. Unless we all forsake meat forever, livestock must be raised somewhere. The American west is a source of a rich heritage to many of us. I was born a cowboy, but I chose to become a fly fisher. There are many facets to the issues being discussed here, and the commments that you have made here overlooks most of them. Jeff Runner

I am not suggesting that we don’t raise cattle, only suggesting that we don’t let them continue to destroy the environment.   – Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison

Response:

you should just post it (poem) and who cares about rhyming and for the hisroty lesson on Kings Land Grants thanks it was interesting. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -If you want my poem on the subject, called "King’s Grant," e-mail back.  It doesn’t rhyme. Dave

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi fellow FF, I’m glad we don’t have the same problem here, as You have in the US, accessing our favorite lakes and streams. In Norway people have had for ages the right to peaceful passage over land and water, whoever owns it. There is a set of laws which regulates this right. But in general everybody can walk, ski, paddle and camp wherever they want in the nature (not fields and gardens). In summer -96, my wife and I, took a trip to Montana to fish in the legendary rivers there. It was a little different for us, driving around looking for spots marked with small fishes (=fishing access) on the roadmaps. Back home we’re used to park the car, then walk straight to where we want to fish …. But don’t get me wrong, we loved the place, despite all the "No Trespassing" signs. Great fishing and the scenery was awesome. We will come back to Montana (or maybe Idaho ..) as soon as we can. regards, ON

Hi, Same with us here in Nova Scotia, we are allowed "on or across" any property with the intent to fish. Now, if everyone would shut the cattle gates after they get in, we’d all be happy ! Bill

Response:

… We will come back to Montana (or maybe Idaho ..) as soon as we can.

Welcome (back) if and when you come to Idaho! Very little land here is posted as private, and we have what many states dream of: Wild Trout! Why all the fuss over lack of access to "stocked" trout? I find this utterly puzzling. Stocked trout are not Wild Trout! "Stocking" trout points to misplaced priorities, especially with regards to riparian zone and habitat. But that’s just my opinion. Now, stocking ducks that can’t fly (with notches in their wings); that’s okay, because I’m not a hunter…  ;-)                            - jqt –

Response:

part II: Well why dont you start convincing land owners about a conservation easement… thats better than a mandatory fencing… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My 2 cents on this subject is stop stocking those poor lazy, diseased hatchery trout with their fins chewed off and start using the money to protect and restore habitat.  All streams should be fenced 100′ back from the edge to prevent cattle and sheep  from destroying them.  I had not realized the damage done by allowing animals to graze up to and in the streams until I saw what fencing did for Yellow Creek in Northern California.  The stream changed from a barren shallow overgrazed area to one where the grass and flowers were waist high and the stream became a deep trout laden joy to fish.  I think the fees paid by people who rent this grazing land should be used to construct these fences and failure to maintain them by the people who rent the land should result in termination of their contract and removal of their animals.  Human access should be provided at convenient intervals in the form of  domestic animal proof gates.  This would improve habitat, reduce erosion and improve water quality.  The laws should be changed about land owners owning the stream and the government should begin purchasing a 100′ strip of property along all streams. This would prevent property owners from dumping unwanted substances into our waters and polluting them.  It is time we started treating our streams like the valuable resource they are. Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail

Response:

Hi fellow FF, I’m glad we don’t have the same problem here, as You have in the US, accessing our favorite lakes and streams. In Norway people have had for ages the right to peaceful passage over land and water, whoever owns it. There is a set of laws which regulates this right. But in general everybody can walk, ski, paddle and camp wherever they want in the nature (not fields and gardens). In summer -96, my wife and I, took a trip to Montana to fish in the legendary rivers there. It was a little different for us, driving around looking for spots marked with small fishes (=fishing access) on the roadmaps. Back home we’re used to park the car, then walk straight to where we want to fish …. But don’t get me wrong, we loved the place, despite all the "No Trespassing" signs. Great fishing and the scenery was awesome. We will come back to Montana (or maybe Idaho ..) as soon as we can. regards, ON

Response:

Well i’ll have to disagree with you there. Private owner ship is what made america I dont want some King owning MY land.  and as for dumping.  I see more people dumping on public water/land than I do private. I know more private land owners who respect the property than dont respect their land . They pay the bank and pay taxes on THEIR land.  I see more citizens abusing Public land. Id be more worried about your local company than some farmer sick and tired of people trespassing on HIS land.

Ernie was referring to PUBLIC lands. Out West large tracts of public lands are leased to ranches for very small fees.  I also think that these leasees should be be required to care for OUR land.  On a number of these leases that I’m personally aware of, these leasees try to illegally keep the public off these public lands by posting No Trespassing signs. Some leasees routinely place many more animals on the leased land than the lease allows. Imposing & enforcing regulations on this group is very difficult.  In many areas of the West, they are a large group with alot of political clout. There have been articles in Audubon Magazine about these abuses. I also agree with you concerning land owners rights. Many of our rights as land owners are being threatened. The vast majority of land owners care for the own land far better than the public does for our public land. I’m in favor of tax incentives, grants etc. given to landowners to encourage good conservation practices, like you suggested. Willi

Response:

My opinion: They probably have a politician in their pocket. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was out brookie fishing in the Shenandoah NP in Virginia this weekend, and ran across something I never really thought about before.  Driving back, I passed by a long stretch of state-stocked trout water.  Not all of it was posted, but over half had clear signs saying NO TRESPASSING, HUNTING OR FISHING.  Just exactly how can property owners do this?  I am simply questioning the legality of restricting access to a publicly funded stocking site.  How are the regulations written to allow for this.  It seems to be a bit odd.  Anyone who can explain this or offer some more information would be appreciated. As I understand it, if a land owner owns on one side, they technically can control to the middle of the stream. If they own BOTH sides, they can control access to the entire stream. You would be trespassing, simply. My question would more likely be, if landowners have these controls(and they should) why is the area stocked by state/federal funds? This is what I would like explained. Regards, J. Webb Atlanta Mac User Group

Response:

I was out brookie fishing in the Shenandoah NP in Virginia this weekend, and ran across something I never really thought about before.  Driving back, I passed by a long stretch of state-stocked trout water.  Not all of it was posted, but over half had clear signs saying NO TRESPASSING, HUNTING OR FISHING.  Just exactly how can property owners do this?  I am simply As I understand it, if a land owner owns on one side, they technically can control to the middle of the stream. If they own BOTH sides, they can control access to the entire stream. You would be trespassing, simply. My question would more likely be, if landowners have these controls(and they should) why is the area stocked by state/federal funds? This is what I would like explained.

We often find (1) property and trespass laws vary between states, (2) they may be affected differently in each state when private water is stocked by the taxpayer.  I’ve been told, in New York State, posted water may be waded or boated if stocked by the state, so long as the visitor enters from public access or across private land where he has permission for access. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

In Maine, the Department of Inland Fisheries & Wildlife has a clear policy that they will not stock fish where public access is not allowed. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -back, I passed by a long stretch of state-stocked trout water.  Not all of it was posted, but over half had clear signs saying NO TRESPASSING, HUNTING OR FISHING.  Just exactly how can property owners do this?  I am simply questioning the legality of restricting access to a publicly funded stocking site.

Response:

well does access mean total public access or does canoe/boat put in count? just curious – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In Maine, the Department of Inland Fisheries & Wildlife has a clear policy that they will not stock fish where public access is not allowed. back, I passed by a long stretch of state-stocked trout water.  Not all of it was posted, but over half had clear signs saying NO TRESPASSING, HUNTING OR FISHING.  Just exactly how can property owners do this?  I am simply questioning the legality of restricting access to a publicly funded stocking site.

Response:

Private property. Just the sound of those two words conjures up day dreams of monster fish that have never seen a fly.  While I may not get too many invitations to fish on private property, I am sure thankful when I do. If all the private property were made public than these dreams would disappear forever. That is how I view it than.    Private property is simply where the caretakers of my dreams live.

My only concern with this is that the ‘private property’ may continue to grow so that unless you do know someone, you just read about fishing here and watch it on the cable stations(while this can be interesting, it does not compare). I have seen some waters along Forest Service roads bought and now posted. It used to be stocked regularly and was a great place to take kids from the youth organization I worked at. We often find (1) property and trespass laws vary between states, (2) they may be affected differently in each state when private water is stocked by the taxpayer.  I’ve been told, in New York State, posted water may be waded or boated if stocked by the state, so long as the visitor enters from public access or across private land where he has permission for access.

I neglected to add that those are the rules for Georgia. I try to remember that this is read over the whole planet. I am sure there are some vast differences in the laws. As I said, those are the laws in Georgia. It is not that it is a real problem but I guess it caught my attention due to seeing some fisheries long available become posted. It is certainly a dilemma. I might add that the reasoning for some individuals posting property was discovered to have nothing to do with creating or preserving a fishery nor even animal rights issues. The stream I mentioned was closed due to the exposure to liability if someone were to be injured on the owner’s property. This likely means that they would not push the issue in most cases but you would be fishing illegaly. Not a good idea to get into this situation. I am not sure how other areas are growing, but at least in N. Georgia growth has not brought larger numbers of trout anglers. Good and bad. Though there is no crowding(save opening day) more support would provide the impetus for Ga. DNR to do more in maintaining the populations. Though good streams exist, many are just put and take. Great responses to the original posters questions. Thanks for the input. Regards, J. Webb Atlanta Mac User Group

Response:

Dan, and others…. I am not a member of the game commission, but do know the policies of the DGIF of Virginia on these matters …. am past president of one of the chapters of Trout Unlimited and have had discussions with the DGIF and some of their board members on this topic…. So it is the policy of DGIF to discontinue stocking on sections of streams as they become posted…..   Will still stock above and below if not posted. The right of peaceful passage on any stream that will support boat traffic (canoes) is always available.   In case of land owner ship, but state stocked waters and the land owner owns both pieces… especially if a Land Grant dating from 1759 from King George you may not fish, anchor, step on the stream bottom or do anything but pass.   In cases where the land is owned but not a land grant you may stay in the stream and fish, but not get on the bank…  We have just had a big case resolved here in Virginia over this issue…..   so if someone tells you this is land grant property….. don’t argue… just say excuse me and move on… Best case is to take a gift to the land owner and ask permission…. works everytime. I don’t have any problem with any landowner posting property that had been stocked in the past and the state then discontinuing stocking… Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

Response:

My 2 cents on this subject is stop stocking those poor lazy, diseased hatchery trout with their fins chewed off and start using the money to protect and restore habitat.  All streams should be fenced 100′ back from the edge to prevent cattle and sheep  from destroying them.  I had not realized the damage done by allowing animals to graze up to and in the streams until I saw what fencing did for Yellow Creek in Northern California.  The stream changed from a barren shallow overgrazed area to one where the grass and flowers were waist high and the stream became a deep trout laden joy to fish.  I think the fees paid by people who rent this grazing land should be used to construct these fences and failure to maintain them by the people who rent the land should result in termination of their contract and removal of their animals.  Human access should be provided at convenient intervals in the form of  domestic animal proof gates.  This would improve habitat, reduce erosion and improve water quality.  The laws should be changed about land owners owning the stream and the government should begin purchasing a 100′ strip of property along all streams. This would prevent property owners from dumping unwanted substances into our waters and polluting them.  It is time we started treating our streams like the valuable resource they are. Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail

Response:

Well i’ll have to disagree with you there. Private owner ship is what made america I dont want some King owning MY land.  and as for dumping.  I see more people dumping on public water/land than I do private.   I know more private land owners who respect the property than dont respect their land . They pay the bank and pay taxes on THEIR land.  I see more citizens abusing Public land. Id be more worried about your local company than some farmer sick and tired of people trespassing on HIS land. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The laws should be changed about land owners owning the stream and the government should begin purchasing a 100′ strip of property along all streams. This would prevent property owners from dumping unwanted substances into our waters and polluting them. Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail

Response:

Hello all:         I was out brookie fishing in the Shenandoah NP in Virginia this weekend, and ran across something I never really thought about before.  Driving back, I passed by a long stretch of state-stocked trout water.  Not all of it was posted, but over half had clear signs saying NO TRESPASSING, HUNTING OR FISHING.  Just exactly how can property owners do this?  I am simply questioning the legality of restricting access to a publicly funded stocking site.  How are the regulations written to allow for this.  It seems to be a bit odd.  Anyone who can explain this or offer some more information would be appreciated. Dan Johnson

Response:

Well the land owner can restrict people on his/her property. After all they own it, they pay taxes on the land.  Im sure if you were to float through and not get out of the canoe/jon boat youd be fine. Just because a state stocks a river doesnt mean every tom dick harry and jane can trespass on private land.   Or you could go to the county courthouse/county tax record find out who owns the land and ask permission.   My guess is the landowner got sick and tired of haing people tromping over his land, liter his property he payes taxes on, and finally decided to post.   Wildlife is owned by the "state" but the land may not be. My suggestion get a canoe, cover lots more ground. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello all:    I was out brookie fishing in the Shenandoah NP in Virginia this weekend, and ran across something I never really thought about before.  Driving back, I passed by a long stretch of state-stocked trout water.  Not all of it was posted, but over half had clear signs saying NO TRESPASSING, HUNTING OR FISHING.  Just exactly how can property owners do this?  I am simply questioning the legality of restricting access to a publicly funded stocking site.  How are the regulations written to allow for this.  It seems to be a bit odd.  Anyone who can explain this or offer some more information would be appreciated. Dan Johnson

Response:

I was out brookie fishing in the Shenandoah NP in Virginia this weekend, and ran across something I never really thought about before.  Driving back, I passed by a long stretch of state-stocked trout water.  Not all of it was posted, but over half had clear signs saying NO TRESPASSING, HUNTING OR FISHING.  Just exactly how can property owners do this?  I am simply questioning the legality of restricting access to a publicly funded stocking site.  How are the regulations written to allow for this.  It seems to be a bit odd.  Anyone who can explain this or offer some more information would be appreciated.

As I understand it, if a land owner owns on one side, they technically can control to the middle of the stream. If they own BOTH sides, they can control access to the entire stream. You would be trespassing, simply. My question would more likely be, if landowners have these controls(and they should) why is the area stocked by state/federal funds? This is what I would like explained. Regards, J. Webb Atlanta Mac User Group

Response:

Well if parts of the river are controlled by state/federal entities, the river might be flowing out of the NP, stocking would filter down to the landowners.  Somehow i doubt they drive down this chap’s land and stock the fish right there.   Also they might be stocked since access points along the river might be a govt operation. that way one couldfloat down the river catching stocked fish – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As I understand it, if a land owner owns on one side, they technically can control to the middle of the stream. If they own BOTH sides, they can control access to the entire stream. You would be trespassing, simply. My question would more likely be, if landowners have these controls(and they should) why is the area stocked by state/federal funds? This is what I would like explained. Regards, J. Webb Atlanta Mac User Group

Response:

Private property. Just the sound of those two words conjures up day dreams of monster fish that have never seen a fly.  While I may not get too many invitations to fish on private property, I am sure thankful when I do. If all the private property were made public than these dreams would disappear forever. That is how I view it than.    Private property is simply where the caretakers of my dreams live. Than, of course, there is "wilderness".   The word "wilderness" conjures up as much mystery and daydreaming as do the words "private property". And therein lies the secret, I believe, if you are willing to sort it all out. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Unfortunately there are people who have no respect for someone’s property. They litter, break down fences, open gates and don’t close them, shoot holes in signs, even shoot livestock.  These are the reasons why land owners post their property.  This trend is increasing, all you have to do is look at the  stuff scattered along our highways.   — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all:    I was out brookie fishing in the Shenandoah NP in Virginia this weekend, and ran across something I never really thought about before.  Driving back, I passed by a long stretch of state-stocked trout water.  Not all of it was posted, but over half had clear signs saying NO TRESPASSING, HUNTING OR FISHING.  Just exactly how can property owners do this?  I am simply questioning the legality of restricting access to a publicly funded stocking site.  How are the regulations written to allow for this.  It seems to be a bit odd.  Anyone who can explain this or offer some more information would be appreciated. Dan Johnson

Response:

Question:

I was wondering if those in the Winnipeg vicinity know if either the Fishing Hole or S.I.R. is (or will have soon) a sale of fly-fishing gear. I’ve been tying for a couple of years, started (like most) with a typical pre-packaged all-in-one kit and would now like a better vise. Can those of you out there with more experience than I reccommend a few vises and their approximate costs?  What should I be looking for in my "next step up from the bottom level" vise? (I would also consider mail-order, too!) Your advice is appreciated, K.M.H. Outside the Perimeter, Manitoba.

Response:

: I was wondering if those in the Winnipeg vicinity know if either the : Fishing Hole or S.I.R. is (or will have soon) a sale of fly-fishing gear. : I’ve been tying for a couple of years, started (like most) with a typical : pre-packaged all-in-one kit and would now like a better vise. Can those : of you out there with more experience than I reccommend a few vises and : their approximate costs?  What should I be looking for in my "next step : up from the bottom level" vise? (I would also consider mail-order, too!) : Your advice is appreciated, : K.M.H. : Outside the Perimeter, Manitoba. Decide first how much you want to spend. At the $50 level (American), you could choose from the likes of Thompson, Griffin, and like vises. Go to the $100 level and you might want to consider a Renzetti Traveler vise, Or even a Griffin Rotary.  Any "intermediate" level vise will have the quality to last a lifetime for the average tyer. Jon Porter

Response:

I have used all of the mentioned vises, the Thompson "A" is my hands down favorite. It is inexpensive, durable and functional. NO COPIES! I found the Griffin to be a bit awkward. I am currently using a Renzetti presentation, although a nice piece of machinery it rates below the "A" in terms of all around usefulness. All of the above are definatly IMHO. A.J.Thramer

Response:

I bought the Renzetti Traveller used, two years ago as a intermediate upgrade (sound like a computer junkie don’t I) and cannot find any excuse to upgrade further.  The rotary feature is the key to "intermediate" tying.  I am not a production tyer though.   jg

Response:

J.J., See my post about an new improvement to the Traveler. Otherwise, I agree with you except that after I tied some flies on the Renzetti Master, I came to the conclusion that if God tied flies here on Earth, he would tie with the Master (naturally!).

Response:

Hi,   Does anyone have any information on an electric fly reel for a physically challanged flyfisher? I’ve seen ocean reels, but nothing that will balance on a 5wt rod. Thanks, Jim Jim, Nevada Jim’s Outdoor Sports, Elko, NV

Response:

  Does anyone have any information on an electric fly reel for a physically challanged flyfisher? I’ve seen ocean reels, but nothing that will balance on a 5wt rod.

Clockwork "automatic" reels were made 1955-75 by several firms, including Scientific Anglers.  It may be hard to find one in good working order nowadays. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Clockwork "automatic" reels were made 1955-75 by several firms, including Scientific Anglers.  It may be hard to find one in good working order nowadays.

I just saw a new automatic reel on the shelf in Sears yesterday. Made by a company called Martin. Darryl Hayashida

Response:

Clockwork "automatic" reels were made 1955-75 by several firms, including Scientific Anglers.  It may be hard to find one in good working order nowadays.

I have on old automatic reel made by Perrine that my father gave to me. He used it when he was little but he didn’t fly fish a lot.  It is in very good condition.   -Russell

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: Clockwork "automatic" reels were made 1955-75 by several firms, including : Scientific Anglers.  It may be hard to find one in good working order : nowadays. : I just saw a new automatic reel on the shelf in Sears yesterday. Made by : a company called Martin. : Darryl Hayashida There are still a couple of models of automatic fly reels around. Manufacturers include Martin, Perrine and Pflueger. Pflueger’s model is actually a *new* one, introduced only in the last year or two. Cabela’s, about US$25. These reels are *not* the best; drag increases unbelievably fast if you get a fish big enough to take line, and capacity is limited (usually the fly line and about 25 yards of backing). Also, do not attempt to dismantle one of these yourself; if you’ve ever had the recoil starter on an outboard motor explode into a giant tangle of spring steel, you’ll get an idea of what can happen. On the other hand, if you’ve only got one functioning hand, these reels allow you to fish again. Pretty decent trade-off. 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (250) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (250) 368-9341

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Question:

I find myself going on a cruise this January with stops at Jamaica, Santo Domingo, Tortola, Ponce, and St. Croix. If anyone knows of any flats fishing that can be done on any of these islands, I’d love to hear about it. The more details the better, to decide if I should take my fly rod. thanks, Bob Vorel

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If the cruise ship stops on the north coast of jamaica, I am happy to report there are tarpon in Montego bay and very nice looking flats intermittenly between there and Negril to the West and Ocho Rios to the west. You can "hire" a glass bottom boat which might serve as a casting platform, but the local captain will have no idea what you’re doing or what you want. The flats are reachable right from the coast road which runs mostly next to the sea. Saw BIG fins of either tarpon or cuda  nearer to Ocho Rios, where I just happended to stop and wade out a bit. I posted for information a couple of times to the news group before I went and got practically no responses. This is VIRGIN territory. By the way DO try the Pork Pit in Montego bay for jerk!!!. Its genuine and fantastic (and very clean). let me know how you do, Clair

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Question:

Jim Bashline, in his book "Night Fishing for Trout" claims that the best time for night fishing is when there is no moon.  His technique is to use large flies in the middle of the night, and is not "matching the hatch" at sundown.       Gene

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Jim Bashline, in his book "Night Fishing for Trout" claims that the best time for night fishing is when there is no moon.  His technique is to use large flies in the middle of the night, and is not "matching the hatch" at sundown.      Gene

Hi Gene, I like night fishing with a mouse pattern.  The big browns love it. Tight Lines] Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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: Someome told me that the fish stop biting the : closer you get to a full moon? : True or just a myth? Not true! It was invented by the Mythiss.  <G Jon Porter Mythiss? A small aquatic insect, right? -David Buschhorn

Negative. You know, like Mythiss Robinson! – -Big John — J.P.Erwin – System Tech – Network Surveilance He that knows the world best – likes it least.  -Poor Richard’s Almanac

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Someome told me that the fish stop biting the closer you get to a full moon? True or just a myth?

True as far as most FFpeople are concerned.  Because of the increased light, they can feed more effectively at night and, therefore, do not need to feed as much during the day. — Richard Nelson Spokane, Wa. "Its not that life is so short, its that death is sooo long."  

Question:

Does anyone have infro. on fishing the Cumberland River below Wolfcreek Dam… Access, Flies to use and water coditions? Thanks Tom Becker Louisville,Ky

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Does anyone have infro. on fishing the Cumberland River below Wolfcreek Dam… Access, Flies to use and water coditions? Thanks Tom Becker Louisville,Ky

Tom, check with the nice folks at the Lac Loon flyfishing shop. Don Mclean, the owner, can give you info, point you to guide services or take you himself. He also has a lot of good equipment and supplies, all flyfishing. Your neighbor, Bob

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Question:

Recent posts on this and other locations have brought out some of the worst of those in our sport who have senselessly criticised equipment of particular brands and the anglers who use whatever happens to be on the "hit list." Two recent posts from another location provide a nice response, and I repeat them here: #1 Never feel that you have to apologize to anyone for the equipment you use. Most of the howlers are cheapskates who wouldn’t know a good rod if someone beat them over the head with it anyway, and they certainly don’t recognize that a good expensive rod is an investment in a lifetime (with reasonable care) of pleasure on the stream." #2 "If some people don’t like Orvis–so what? Think for yourself and do your own thing.  Owning Orvis products has about as much to do with being a yuppie as owning Scott or Winston.  Besides, who the hell really cares if someone *does* label you or me or Joe Blow a yuppie. Small-minded people need to fixate on simple-minded, non-issues–just look at our gov’mint!" Lyman Hughes                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

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Recent posts on this and other locations have brought out some of the worst of those in our sport who have senselessly criticised equipment of particular brands and the anglers who use whatever happens to be on the "hit list." Two recent posts from another location provide a nice response, and I repeat them here: #1 Never feel that you have to apologize to anyone for the equipment you use. Most of the howlers are cheapskates who wouldn’t know

a good rod if someone beat them over the head with it anyway, and they certainly don’t recognize that a good expensive rod is an investment in a lifetime (with reasonable care) of pleasure on the stream." #2 "If some people don’t like Orvis–so what? Think for yourself and do your own thing.  Owning Orvis products has about as much to do with being a yuppie as owning Scott or Winston.  Besides, who the hell really cares if someone*does* label you or me or Joe Blow a yuppie. Small-minded people

need to fixate on simple-minded, non-issues–just look at our gov’mint!" Bravo! JL 8-Wt Editor

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To me, it does not matter whether you use an Orvis rod or a Diawa, all that really matters is whether you can catch "and release" fish!  Too many people get too esoteric about having the best equipment but why do you have to spend your all your money on equipment because Lefty Kreh has endorsed it?  I have some expensive equipment and I have cheap equipment and to tell you the truth, sometimes I can’t tell the difference. Remember, "A bad day of fishing is still better than a good day at work!" Tight Lines! Mark

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Re: whether you own an Orvis, etc…I’d be willing to bet a day’s pay that those "toy snobs" can’t cast their expensive trinkets worth a damned. And I bet they don’t fish more than 1 or 2 times a year, then only in perfectly calm, clear days.       In my past days as a professional photographer, I would listen to the same B.S. concerning cameras. You know, it’s not What you use, but HOW you use it that counts!    A cheap rod and cheap line fished properly will catch just as  many fish as the expensive stuff. It is technique and presentation that counts. The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!"

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Most people use the best equipment they can afford, since it is almost always more enjoyable to use than something cheaper.  Why don’t most serious flyfishers by cheap rods and/or lines?  There is a difference, and you know it, so why be so negative? BTW, what kind of rod and line do you use, and what kind of camera did you use professionally? — Jim Benenson                 Los Alamos, New Mexico, USA "The commonplace is only the self-constructed wall that separates us from the marvelous"  Tom Brown, Jr.

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Begin Message—– snipped The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!" snipped End Message ——- As I look through all of my spring fishing catalogs (Bean, Dan Bailey, Cabelas, Bass Pro, etc.)  I have to ask myself why a bait casting rod made out of IM6 graphite or any other new generation graphites costs 50% less than a fly rod made out of the same material.  I do not believe that the manufacturting processes are that disimilar. Some people might argue something about mandrels and tapers (I always thought that a mandrel was a baboon like primate).  But I really think that the prices are  high for fly rods simply because the market can bear it. BTW, Bass Pro has a good deal on some IM6 rods with a SA 2L reel for $179.00. I priced the reel elsewhere at $125.00. So its like getting an IM6 rod for $54.00.  I bought one last year when the combo sold for $169.00 and the rod is pretty nice casting (minor cosmetic imperfections in the varnishing and wrapping) My $0.02 Daern C. Valentine

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Begin Message—– snipped The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!" snipped End Message ——- As I look through all of my spring fishing catalogs (Bean, Dan Bailey, Cabelas, Bass Pro, etc.)  I have to ask myself why a bait casting rod made out of IM6 graphite or any other new generation graphites costs 50% less than a fly rod made out of the same material.  I do not believe that the manufacturting processes are that disimilar. Some people might argue something about mandrels and tapers (I always thought that a mandrel was a baboon like primate).  But I really think that the prices are  high for fly rods simply because the market can bear it.

An experienced and honest angler will have to admit that a high-end rod, e.g., Scott, Sage, Winston, etc., just casts and "feels" better than an economy rod, e.g., Cabela’s, St. Croix, etc.  The latter rods can be great bargains, and there is no doubt that an accomplished fisher with a Cortland in hand will do better than a novice casting a T&T.  Clearly, technique is MUCH more important than equipment.  However, once you’ve reached a certain level of casting skill, you appreciate a well-made rod and it makes for a better fishing experience.  In addition, high-end rods just look nicer: There is more attention to design and they are finished better (as you point out, the rod you bought had "minor cosmetic imperfections").  For some people, like myself, this matters; for others, it may be totally irrelevant. There is no doubt that the markup on high-end rods is high.  But you have to consider that the production of many of these rods is extremely labor intensive.  Consider Scott, for example.  Scott matches tip sections to butt sections by hand, testing each butt with a variety of tips until the appropriate and desired  taper and flex pattern is achieved.  This is done for each rod individually. Many high-end rod companies (e.g., Sage) also put a lot of money into R&D trying to figure out what lengths, tapers, diameters, scrims, etc., are appropriate for various types of graphite and various line weights. All that said, it is certainly true that these rod companies know their market and are not shy about pricing their products. Comparing fly rods to spinning rods is unfair.  Don’t think that any two blanks made from IM6 (which, BTW, is second generation graphite and is about 5-6 years old now) are of equivalent quality and should be priced the same.  The quality of a spinning rod is much less important to casting than is the quality of a fly rod, and rod makers know this.  You can get away with many more imperfections in the blank on a spinning rod.  In addition, they are shorter.  Cost goes up nonlinearly with length because it is just a lot harder to make a straight 9 ft. blank that tapers from say, 1 cm to 2 mm, than to make an almost straight 7 ft. blank that tapers from 2 cm (or more on some of Cabela’s rods, e.g.) to 2 mm.  Put it this way:  You could do pretty well spin casting with your reel tied to a broom handle, but unless you are Lefty Kreh, you’d have a hell of a time getting more than a few feet of line out fly casting with such a rig. Finally, I’ll gladly take up "FlyFish887" on his casting bet for a day’s pay:  Just name the time and the place . . . TPM

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writes: Re: whether you own an Orvis, etc…I’d be willing to bet a day’s pay that those "toy snobs" can’t cast their expensive trinkets worth a damned. And I bet they don’t fish more than 1 or 2 times a year, then only in perfectly calm, clear days.  In my past days as a professional photographer, I would listen to the same B.S. concerning cameras. You know, it’s not What you use, but HOW you use it that counts!    A cheap rod and cheap line fished properly will catch just as  many fish as the expensive stuff. It is technique and presentation that counts. The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!"

I’ll take that bet. What do you consider "worth a damned"?  Distance?   Accuracy? I have a 9ft 7wt I can cast a standard flyline so far the backing is hanging out of the tiptop. Or how about picking up a bass bug at about 45 feet and with one false cast hit within 12 inches of a target at 65 feet. In my present days as a professional photo lab technician I also know that any _professional_ photographer is going to use top of the line equipment because it is dependable, rugged and has quality optics. People use Canons, Nikons, Hasselbads, not Ricoh, Pentax and Mamiya-Sekor.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Comparing fly rods to spinning rods is unfair.  Don’t think that any two blanks made from IM6 (which, BTW, is second generation graphite and is about 5-6 years old now) are of equivalent quality and should be priced the same.  The quality of a spinning rod is much less important to casting than is the quality of a fly rod, and rod makers know this.  You can get away with many more imperfections in the blank on a spinning rod.   This is all very nice but it’s not reflected in reality.  Take a close look   at blank vs finished rod prices in the Loomis catalogs, for instance, and   what comes through is that the majority of the differences in price between   spinning/casting and fly rods is in the rods and not the blanks themselves.     For example, look at several 9′ blanks and what happens to the final price   (these are GLoomis two-piece IMX rods):    Length      "Rating"    Blank price   Finished rod price      9′      6-10 lb line     $207            $330      9′      8-12 lb line     $214            $335      9′        6 weight       $171            $375      9′        7 weight       $182            $380   I think that the original poster was correct: there is a substantial premium   inherent in fly rod prices and it is not clear that there is a materials or   labor cost that warrants it.

These are interesting and useful data, but they cut both ways.  Your argument assumes that the blank prices are accurate reflections of production costs but that the finished rod prices are not.  If we assume that all costs reflect production costs plus a constant percentage markup (constant across rod types), the prices above indicate that spinning rods cost more to make (for a given length) but that fly rods cost more to finish.  If you are willing to question the increment from blank to finished rod for fly rods, why not also question the prices on blanks themselves.  Perhaps the markup is higher for spinning blanks than for fly rod blanks.  The real problem is that no one outside the company really knows what the production costs are and how items are priced for a given market. I’ll stick with my previous argument that the quality of the blank is much less important to spin fishing than to fly fishing, and hence, that comparing prices between spinning rods and fly rods is unfair.  However, I also strongly suspect that we fly fishers are not getting any bargains on premium rods. TPM

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