Question:

…reading a bit of ol bartram’s writings from the late 1700s (e-document on a UNC web site noted at the bottom of this post)and ran upon the following… southern fly-fishing heritage, eh? course, like most furriners, ol bartram didn’t know a trout from whatever it was those boys were dappin out from under the river bank in Florida… "….covered with the white hair of a deer’s tail, shreds of a red garter, and some particoloured feathers…." Fascinating.  Thanks for posting it. JR

thanks jeffie…. bartram’s travels is a classic….. well worth the read. –waldo, hoping i still have a copy somewheres…

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Appreciate posts on FF history, thanx. Dave

Response:

Jeff  I missed the post explaing UnC  web to read early Bartram—-please offer again– Playing tennis thru Nov 11 but if you are interested in a western N.C. trip after that   let me know–only one  proviso ( a legal term I think )   motel rooms cannot be exited before six in morning.–Jeff and IJ sharinmg motel room-at 2:30 AM  AM Jeff showers and says I’ve had enought sleep  let"s o  – IJ ask it’s raining and dark and foggy and the next three hour drive is all curves–what the hell are we going to do in Graham Co. N.C at five Am in the mornimng??   Jeff yea but we will miss most of the traffic.  IJ

Response:

Playing tennis thru Nov 11 but if you are interested in a western N.C. trip after that   let me know–only one  proviso ( a legal term I think ) motel rooms cannot be exited before six in morning.–Jeff and IJ sharinmg motel room-at 2:30 AM  AM Jeff showers and says I’ve had enought sleep  let"s o  – IJ ask it’s raining and dark and foggy and the next three hour drive is all curves–what the hell are we going to do in Graham Co. N.C at five Am in the mornimng??   Jeff yea but we will miss most of the traffic.  IJ

I believe that somehow I must be related to Jeff Miller. I’m off to call my mom. –Steve

Response:

i think this is what you wanted, but not sure…  http://docsouth.unc.edu/nc/bartram/bartram.html …i’m probably not gonna be able to get back to the mountains before christmas… but i might get ol pj and make a visit to you and that bass pond you keep braggin about… we’d arrive early and leave late, eat all your food, and drink your whisky… and since jim’s comin, you might wanna warn dene too… i hear it’s nice in wilmington this time of year… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –        The electronic edition is a part of the UNC-CH digitization project, Documenting the American South.

Response:

…reading a bit of ol bartram’s writings from the late 1700s (e-document on a UNC web site noted at the bottom of this post)and ran upon the following… southern fly-fishing heritage, eh? course, like most furriners, ol bartram didn’t know a trout from whatever it was those boys were dappin out from under the river bank in Florida…

"….covered with the white hair of a deer’s tail, shreds of a red garter, and some particoloured feathers…."   Fascinating.  Thanks for posting it. JR

Response:

That ‘delicious food’ part doesn’t seem to fit, does it? riverman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …reading a bit of ol bartram’s writings from the late 1700s (e-document on a UNC web site noted at the bottom of this post)and ran upon the following… southern fly-fishing heritage, eh? course, like most furriners, ol bartram didn’t know a trout from whatever it was those boys were dappin out from under the river bank in Florida… jeff <Page 108 "ON my return, I found some of my companions fishing for trout, round about the edges of the floating nymphaea, and not unsuccessfully, having then caught more than sufficient for us all. As the method of taking these fish is curious and singular, I shall just mention it. THEY are taken with a hook and line, but without any bait. Two people are in a little canoe, one sitting in the stern to steer, and the other near the bow, having a rod ten or twelve feet in length, to one end of which is tied a strong line, about twenty inches in length, to which is fastened three large hooks, back to back. These are fixed very securely, and covered with the white hair of a deer’s tail, shreds of a red garter, and some particoloured feathers, all which form a tuft, or tassel, nearly as large as one’s fist, and entirely cover and conceal the hooks:

this is called a bob. The steersman paddles softly, and proceeds slowly along shore, keeping the

boat parallel to it, at a distance just sufficient to admit the fisherman to reach the edge of

the floating weeds along shore: he now ingeniously swings the bob backwards and forwards, just above the surface, and sometimes tips the water with it; when the unfortunate cheated trout

instantly springs from under the weeds, and seizes the supposed prey. Thus he is caught without a

possibility of escape, unless he break the hooks, line, or rod, which he, however, sometime does

by dint of strength; but, to prevent this, the fisherman used to the sport is careful not to

raise the reed suddenly up, but jerks it instantly backwards, then steadily drags the sturdy reluctant

fish to the side of the < Page 109 canoe, and with a sudden upright jerk brings him into it. THE head of this fish makes about one third of his length, and

consequently the mouth is very large: birds, fish, frogs, and even serpents, are frequently found in its stomach. THE trout is of lead colour, inclining to a deep blue, and marked with

transverse waved lists, of a deep slate colour, and when fully grown, has a cast of red, or brick colour. The fins, with the tail, which is large, and beautifully formed, are of a light

reddish purple, or flesh colour, the whole body is covered with large scales. But what is most singular,

this fish is remarkably ravenous; nothing living, that he can seize upon, escapes his jaws, and the opening

and extending of the branchiostega, at the moment he rises to the surface to seize his prey,

discovering his bright red gills, through the transparent waters, give him a very terible appearance. Indeed

it may be observed, that all fish of prey have this opening and covering of the gills very large, in

order to discharge the great quantity of water, which they take in at their mouth, when they

strike at their prey. This fish is nearly cuniform, the body tapering gradually from the breast to the

tail, and lightly compressed on each side. They frequently weigh fifteen, twenty and thirty pounds, and are delicious food. …quoted from Travels Through North & South Carolina, Georgia, East & West

Florida, the Cherokee Country, the Extensive Territories of the Muscogulges, or Creek Confederacy, and the

Country of the Chactaws; Containing An Account of the Soil and Natural Productions of Those Regions,

Together with Observations on the Manners of the Indians. Embellished with Copper-Plates (spine) Bartram’s Travels William Bartram xxxiv, 522 p., ill. PHILADELPHIA: PRINTED BY JAMES & JOHNSON. M, DCC, XCI. Call number VC917 B29 (North Carolina Collection, University of North

Carolina at Chapel Hill) http://docsouth.unc.edu/nc/bartram/bartram.html —–        The electronic edition is a part of the UNC-CH digitization

project, Documenting the American South. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

…reading a bit of ol bartram’s writings from the late 1700s (e-document on a UNC web site noted at the bottom of this post)and ran upon the following… southern fly-fishing heritage, eh? course, like most furriners, ol bartram didn’t know a trout from whatever it was those boys were dappin out from under the river bank in Florida… jeff <Page 108         "ON my return, I found some of my companions fishing for trout, round about the edges of the floating nymphaea, and not unsuccessfully, having then caught more than sufficient for us all. As the method of taking these fish is curious and singular, I shall just mention it.         THEY are taken with a hook and line, but without any bait. Two people are in a little canoe, one sitting in the stern to steer, and the other near the bow, having a rod ten or twelve feet in length, to one end of which is tied a strong line, about twenty inches in length, to which is fastened three large hooks, back to back. These are fixed very securely, and covered with the white hair of a deer’s tail, shreds of a red garter, and some particoloured feathers, all which form a tuft, or tassel, nearly as large as one’s fist, and entirely cover and conceal the hooks: this is called a bob. The steersman paddles softly, and proceeds slowly along shore, keeping the boat parallel to it, at a distance just sufficient to admit the fisherman to reach the edge of the floating weeds along shore: he now ingeniously swings the bob backwards and forwards, just above the surface, and sometimes tips the water with it; when the unfortunate cheated trout instantly springs from under the weeds, and seizes the supposed prey. Thus he is caught without a possibility of escape, unless he break the hooks, line, or rod, which he, however, sometime does by dint of strength; but, to prevent this, the fisherman used to the sport is careful not to raise the reed suddenly up, but jerks it instantly backwards, then steadily drags the sturdy reluctant fish to the side of the < Page 109 canoe, and with a sudden upright jerk brings him into it.         THE head of this fish makes about one third of his length, and consequently the mouth is very large: birds, fish, frogs, and even serpents, are frequently found in its stomach. THE trout is of lead colour, inclining to a deep blue, and marked with transverse waved lists, of a deep slate colour, and when fully grown, has a cast of red, or brick colour. The fins, with the tail, which is large, and beautifully formed, are of a light reddish purple, or flesh colour, the whole body is covered with large scales. But what is most singular, this fish is remarkably ravenous; nothing living, that he can seize upon, escapes his jaws, and the opening and extending of the branchiostega, at the moment he rises to the surface to seize his prey, discovering his bright red gills, through the transparent waters, give him a very terible appearance. Indeed it may be observed, that all fish of prey have this opening and covering of the gills very large, in order to discharge the great quantity of water, which they take in at their mouth, when they strike at their prey. This fish is nearly cuniform, the body tapering gradually from the breast to the tail, and lightly compressed on each side. They frequently weigh fifteen, twenty and thirty pounds, and are delicious food. …quoted from Travels Through North & South Carolina, Georgia, East & West Florida, the Cherokee Country, the Extensive Territories of the Muscogulges, or Creek Confederacy, and the Country of the Chactaws; Containing An Account of the Soil and Natural Productions of Those Regions, Together with Observations on the Manners of the Indians. Embellished with Copper-Plates (spine) Bartram’s Travels William Bartram xxxiv, 522 p., ill. PHILADELPHIA: PRINTED BY JAMES & JOHNSON. M, DCC, XCI. Call number VC917 B29 (North Carolina Collection, University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill) http://docsouth.unc.edu/nc/bartram/bartram.html         The electronic edition is a part of the UNC-CH digitization project, Documenting the American South.

Response:

Question:

Where is Talyllyn Lake

Response:

dwyfor.ac.uk writes Has anyone had any experience of fly fishing on Talyllyn Lake?

Famous for it Olive hatches. — Bill http://www.graigroad.demon.co.uk

Response:

Has anyone had any experience of fly fishing on Talyllyn Lake?

Response:

X-Deja-AN: 554202379 X-Priority: 3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Organization: Customer of Planet Online X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I’ve not had the pleasure yet but hope to one day soon but I am told that it is a little difficult to book a boat, apart from that it is a wonderful lake and the fishing is excellent.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone had any experience of fly fishing on Talyllyn Lake?

Response:

Does anyone have any experience of fishing on Talyllyn Lake?

Response:

dwyfor.ac.uk writes Does anyone have any experience of fishing on Talyllyn Lake?

Not actually fished it, but know a man who has:-) I’ve been told the fishing is not that good these days, but what fish there are, will happily take an olive nymph or lake olive. I’d go for local B&B if you’re intent on staying in  the area for a day or two – Ty’n y Cornel is a bit pricey but good. The food is very good! — Bill

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Question:

We are planning on a trip – Montreal to Vancouver would appreciate comments regarding best road route to use. CGs also please. Trip about May / June this year. Is this too early, don’t want snow. Thanks and greetings to all Aubrey

Response:

Shouldn’t have many concerns about snow in May, June. I’ll bet you would enjoy the Trans Canada Highway. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are planning on a trip – Montreal to Vancouver would appreciate comments regarding best road route to use. CGs also please. Trip about May / June this year. Is this too early, don’t want snow. Thanks and greetings to all Aubrey

Response:

Having done the trip I would suggest Hwy 17 from Montreal to Winnipeg then the Yellowhead Hwy from Winnipeg to BC via Regina and Edmonton then back down to Hwy 1 for the trip to Banff and down into Vancouver.  When travelling in Northern Ontario you should focus on the Provincial Park system around the top of Lake Superior, the campgrounds are beautiful and serviced.  Early May could be a problem for open campgrounds but the end of May and June will be fine except for BLACK FLIES which MAY – MAY be bad from time to time. Its beautiful countryside, enjoy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We are planning on a trip – Montreal to Vancouver would appreciate comments regarding best road route to use.

Response:

We are planning on a trip – Montreal to Vancouver would appreciate comments regarding best road route to use. CGs also please. Trip about May / June this year. Is this too early, don’t want snow. Thanks and greetings to all Aubrey

    Well there was the time,west of Calgaryt in mid May 1985, that we got caught in an unexpected Spring snowstorm that reduce highway #1 down to one lane through really wet ,heavy stuff.  We arrived in Calgary and headed North where there had been no snow at all.    Last year we visited Jasper in mid May and everything was extremely dry.   This year Edmonton has had tons of snow but it’s so dry South of Red Deer that some areas have had grass fires.    Go for it but be prepared for anything, at least an RV will give you the option of getting off the road if the weather gets bad.    I concur with Bill on not missing the Jasper -Banff highway. Most people here say that the North to South route is easier for heavy vehicles and most of the best view points are on that side of the road.   Happy camping. Roy Schmaus http://www.ee.ualberta.ca/~schmaus/

Response:

Having done the trip I would suggest Hwy 17 from Montreal to Winnipeg then the Yellowhead Hwy from Winnipeg to BC via Regina and Edmonton then back

This is good advice, however the Yellowhead will miss Regina.  Missing Regina is a good thing.   (Prepare yourself – sales pitch for Saskatchewan approaching) The Yellowhead will take you through Yorkton, Saskatoon & North Battleford.  Within three hours to the north of any of these cities are some beautiful parks that could be destinations for your trip.  I realize you want to "see Canada" but you really should take the time to travel to Waskesiu.  If you like golfing (which I don’t) it has a course that ranks with any in Canada.  It is a national park so you get the wildlife thing (elk, deer, bear).  We don’t consider it good fishing (because it is so much better if you go a little further north) but most north americans would.  There is a good full service campground as well as a large area with electric only sites or unserviced sites.  I believe they have something over 300 sites in total.  Just outside the park at Elk Ridge is a brand new full service RV park attached to an 18 hole golf course. If you get past Waskesiu into northern Saskatchewan you can find everything from fully serviced to fully primitive camping.  You can fly into some of the best freshwater fishing in the world.  If you know where to go you can drive to some pretty damn good fishing.  Just drop me even the slightest hint that you are interested and I will deluge you with information. Once you get past Saskatchewan it is all downhill but there are some sort of pretty spots.   :-} There’s the obvious stuff that everyone goes to – Banff, L.Louise, Jasper, Columbia Icefields.  Off the beaten path a bit there are some really nice spots.  We like the Kootenay Valley – there is a park on the east shore of Kootenay Lake that we like – I think it is Whispering Cedars or something like that.  On the other side of Kootenay lake don’t miss the historic town of Kaslo and the ghost town of Sandon.  There are natural hot springs at Nakusp and at Ainsworth. Another lovely area is the Sicamous lakes around Salmon Arm, BC.   Just make sure not to miss Saskatchewan.

Response:

That time of the year should be fine.  Canada is no colder than the upper U.S. and we did away with our igloos some time ago.  You only have one direct route here if you want to come right across and that is Hwy #1 the Trans Canada Highway.  Very pretty drive once you enter Alberta and British Columbia.  This route takes you through Banff and the interior of British columbia which at that time of the year gets into the high 80s.  Have a nice trip and enjoy Canada. Rick – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We are planning on a trip – Montreal to Vancouver would appreciate comments regarding best road route to use. CGs also please. Trip about May / June this year. Is this too early, don’t want snow. Thanks and greetings to all Aubrey

Response:

That time of the year should be fine.  Canada is no colder than the upper U.S. We are planning on a trip – Montreal to Vancouver would appreciate comments regarding best road route to use. CGs also please. Trip about May / June this year. Is this too early, don’t want snow.

You shouldn’t have any trouble. I took the train across Canada one year from Cape Breton Island, NS to Hazelton, BC and back, in March, and saw little snow. Today I drove halfway up the west coast of Newfoundland and there was no snow on the highway. Bet you’ll have a great trip in May/June. But just the same, keep an eye on the weather. Here’s one of my favourite weather websites:                 http://icons.wunderground.com/global/CN_ST_Index.html Doug

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And mighty fine ones at that!  Born and raised there myself.  What more need be said. : ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone once said that the best way to see Saskatchewan is in your rear view mirror! I can’t let that pass but I don’t know what else to say except that our biggest export is people.

Response:

Someone once said that the best way to see Saskatchewan is in your rear view mirror!

I can’t let that pass but I don’t know what else to say except that our biggest export is people.

Response:

Someone once said that the best way to see Saskatchewan is in your rear view mirror! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Having done the trip I would suggest Hwy 17 from Montreal to Winnipeg then the Yellowhead Hwy from Winnipeg to BC via Regina and Edmonton then back This is good advice, however the Yellowhead will miss Regina.  Missing Regina is a good thing. (Prepare yourself – sales pitch for Saskatchewan approaching) The Yellowhead will take you through Yorkton, Saskatoon & North Battleford.  Within three hours to the north of any of these cities are some beautiful parks that could be destinations for your trip.  I realize you want to "see Canada" but you really should take the time to travel to Waskesiu.  If you like golfing (which I don’t) it has a course that ranks with any in Canada.  It is a national park so you get the wildlife thing (elk, deer, bear).  We don’t consider it good fishing (because it is so much better if you go a little further north) but most north americans would.  There is a good full service campground as well as a large area with electric only sites or unserviced sites.  I believe they have something over 300 sites in total.  Just outside the park at Elk Ridge is a brand new full service RV park attached to an 18 hole golf course. If you get past Waskesiu into northern Saskatchewan you can find everything from fully serviced to fully primitive camping.  You can fly into some of the best freshwater fishing in the world.  If you know where to go you can drive to some pretty damn good fishing.  Just drop me even the slightest hint that you are interested and I will deluge you with information. Once you get past Saskatchewan it is all downhill but there are some sort of pretty spots.   :-} There’s the obvious stuff that everyone goes to – Banff, L.Louise, Jasper, Columbia Icefields.  Off the beaten path a bit there are some really nice spots.  We like the Kootenay Valley – there is a park on the east shore of Kootenay Lake that we like – I think it is Whispering Cedars or something like that.  On the other side of Kootenay lake don’t miss the historic town of Kaslo and the ghost town of Sandon.  There are natural hot springs at Nakusp and at Ainsworth. Another lovely area is the Sicamous lakes around Salmon Arm, BC. Just make sure not to miss Saskatchewan.

Response:

Question:

I recently inherited a split cane fly rod and would like to identify its source and possible age.  It is a 3 piece, 10′6", with spare top section, has screw type ferrules, cork grip, and wrappings approx. every inch along its length. I always thought it was a salmon rod but the last time I was allowed to use it was about 1950 in England, so my memory is a bit hazy.

It would be unlikely (though not impossible) that it’s primary function was as a salmon rod. Even today salmon in Britain are normally fished for with two-handed rods, from 12 to 15 or more feet long. You may fish for summer fish with a shorter rod but you’ll then be said to be fishing with a trout rod. It might well be one of two things: a sea-trout rod (in other words trout that migrate to sea like steelhead) and are fished for on rivers – that is if the action is quite tight and fast, or, I think more likely,  a boat rod,  for fishing for trout from a boat drifiting along on a lake with the prevailing wind. In this fashion, casts are quite short, and very soft rods were used – very often around this length. I still have one my father inherited in the 1920s from a major Irish fisherman, but I must say that I find it unfishable. I fish with split cane on the English chalkstreams, but anything of ten foot I would find very hard going

Response:

I recently inherited a split cane fly rod and would like to identify its source and possible age.  It is a 3 piece, 10′6", with spare top section, has screw type ferrules, cork grip, and wrappings approx. every inch along its length. I always thought it was a salmon rod but the last time I was allowed to use it was about 1950 in England, so my memory is a bit hazy. The only identifying mark is on the brass butt piece and that has partially worn off.  It has the inscription  " CA??ER and CO.  London  ". I’m not expecting it to be of any value, other than sentimental, but I would like to know its age and origins. Also I intend to fish with it so could somebody give me some idea of the possible line weight used with these rods.   Thanks  Ed — Ed Fenton Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Response:

Ed, I think this rod was made by (or for ?) Carter & Co., London that appears to have been a tackle store (??) that existed from 1853 till 1969. The company changed it’s name from Alfred Carter to Carter & Co. in 1901, so your rod is definitely post 1901. This is all I could find out from my books. regards Inge Solberg Houston, TX – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I recently inherited a split cane fly rod and would like to identify its source and possible age. It is a 3 piece, 10′6", with spare top section, has screw type ferrules, cork grip, and wrappings approx. every inch along its length. I always thought it was a salmon rod but the last time I was allowed to use it was about 1950 in England, so my memory is a bit hazy. The only identifying mark is on the brass butt piece and that has partially worn off.  It has the inscription  " CA??ER and CO.  London  ". I’m not expecting it to be of any value, other than sentimental, but I would like to know its age and origins. Also I intend to fish with it so could somebody give me some idea of the possible line weight used with these rods.   Thanks  Ed — Ed Fenton Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recently inherited a split cane fly rod and would like to identify its source and possible age.  It is a 3 piece, 10′6", with spare top section, has screw type ferrules, cork grip, and wrappings approx. every inch along its length. I always thought it was a salmon rod but the last time I was allowed to use it was about 1950 in England, so my memory is a bit hazy. The only identifying mark is on the brass butt piece and that has partially worn off.  It has the inscription  " CA??ER and CO.  London  ". I’m not expecting it to be of any value, other than sentimental, but I would like to know its age and origins. Also I intend to fish with it so could somebody give me some idea of the possible line weight used with these rods. Thanks  Ed — Ed Fenton Burlington, Ontario, Canada

Heck, I’m no expert (for sure) but I may be able to point you in the right direction.  It does sound like a salmon rod, probably taking about an 8 to 10 weight line.  The wraps every inch or so were called "intermediate wraps" and were originally used when glues weren’t very good.  However, UK-built rods seem to value tradition and rods with intermediate wraps were available in the 1970’s (I believe from Clifford Constable — or was it J.Sharpe?).  In my web wanderings I found a site that frequently auctions cane rods in the UK (I think it is www.auctions-on-line.com, if that doesn’t work e-mail me and I’ll find it) with descriptions, etc.  Sorry I can’t help with the name of the actual maker — I only know of companies that were on the scene in the 1970’s or later (i.e., Hardy, Constable, Farlow, Sharpe, Partridge, etc.). BTW–If you do find out exactly what it is, please post a follow-up. George (Irish descent, not living in Ireland)

Response:

Question:

…my leader had such a bad coil memory that if I had gotten a strike I wouldn’t have known it.  How do you take the memory out of a leader?

Kevin — Run the leader quickly between your thumb and the index finger several times, each time increasing pressure.  At some point the line will start burning your fingers.  Back off on the pressure (or speeed) and repeat the exercise a couple more times.  Keeping the temperature below the burning point will prevent you from ever overheating the leader.  -AR

Response:

Thanks for the comments here and in my email.   …Now I have to figure out how to tye that little tiny black gnat/mesquito looking bug that they were hitting all around my fly. But alas that is another thread.

I’ll bet those tiny little bugs are midges, a great pattern to use for these is the Griffith’s Gnat which supposedly imitates a bunch of midges all stuck together, and takes about 2 minutes to tie: Hook: Dry fly, size 16-24 (I usually tie mine in size 18) Thread: Black Body: Peacock herl, a few strands wound into a rope then wrapped onto the hook Hackle: Grizzly, palmered the length of the body Have fun… — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

Response:

I am new to flyfishing and need help.  Yesterday I went out and practiced on a farm pond that was frozen over just a few days ago.  

One thing I’d add to the sage advise of Dan and Bill: In my experience, cold weather/water just makes it that much harder to straighten leader butts, so I like to straighten it the moment I get where I’m going, and sometimes while I’m still in the nice, warm car.  If you do it while the leader butt still has some of that road heat in it the job will be much easier.  Sometimes I’ll do it once at home and then again when I get to point B, if it’s really cold and I don’t have far to drive. Dave DeLacey Corvallis, Or.

Response:

and practiced on a farm pond that was frozen over just a few days ago.  I was really just there for the casting practice, but my leader had such a bad coil memory that if I had gotten a strike I wouldn’t have known it.  How do you take the memory out of a leader? Thanks in Advance Kevin W. Tharp Addicted angler and newbie fly fisher. Kevin, Most all leaders are made of nylon and this works for nylon.  The easiest way is to take the leader in sections in your two hands and stretch it until you feel a slight give and hold that for a fixed number of seconds depending on temperature….. see table below…. what is happening is you are realigning the crystal structure of the nylon.  nylon responds to this kind of tensile realignment…. other fibers may not… at 70 degrees F hold for 6 seconds at 60 degrees F hold for 12 seconds at 50 degrees F hold the stretch for 24 seconds at 40 degrees F hold for 48 seconds at 30 degrees…. go home….   The other advantage is this tests any knots you may have. I do not like the idea of holding the nylon in a piece of leather and pulling  which does the same thing as above but at a higher temperature…… because the process stands a good chance of roughening and weakening a section of the nylon… tightlines, Alan E. Hoover Anglers’ Rest Powhatan, Va        *the trout teach many, lessons*

Response:

Thanks for the comments here and in my email.  I got a chance to go out yesterday afternoon and try the stretching.  I am amazed at how well it actually works.  Everyone who responded had a little different technique, and I will have to develop my own.  I didn’t get any strikes, but if I had, I am much more confident I could have set the hook.  Now I have to figure out how to tye that little tiny black gnat/mesquito looking bug that they were hitting all around my fly.  But alas that is another thread. tight lines Kevin W. Tharp

Response:

I am new to flyfishing and need help.  Yesterday I went out and practiced on a farm pond that was frozen over just a few days ago.  I was really just there for the casting practice, but my leader had such a bad coil memory that if I had gotten a strike I wouldn’t have known it.  How do you take the memory out of a leader?

Hi Kevin, This is a common problem with a simple answer.  First, anchor the butt end well in one hand, then intertwine it through a few fingers of your other hand and pull.  If you let it slip through your fingers slowly it whould heat up and stretch the leader.  If you pull too hard, you’ll burn your fingers a bit and stop pulling.  If you don’t pull hard enough it won’t heat up.  It does need to heat up to stretch and straighten it.  As you get to the thinner part of the leader it takes less friction to heat and straighten it.  This will straighten your leader without overheating it (bio-feedback, burns your fingers before it burns the leader). WARNING!! Don’t buy, make, or use a leader straightener.  It will straighten out the leader just great but will overheat it and drop the breaking strength in half.  Been there, done that, don’t recommend it.  If you must use one, use it *very slowly*.                                   Hope this helps,                                             Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

I am new to flyfishing and need help.  Yesterday I went out and practiced on a farm pond that was frozen over just a few days ago.  I was really just there for the casting practice, but my leader had such a bad coil memory that if I had gotten a strike I wouldn’t have known it.  How do you take the memory out of a leader? Thanks in Advance Kevin W. Tharp Addicted angler and newbie fly fisher.

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I am new to flyfishing and need help.  Yesterday I went out and practiced on a farm pond that was frozen over just a few days ago.  I was really just there for the casting practice, but my leader had such a bad coil memory that if I had gotten a strike I wouldn’t have known it.  How do you take the memory out of a leader? Thanks in Advance Kevin W. Tharp Addicted angler and newbie fly fisher.

A smart ass friend of mine says to catch a big Brown trout right off the bat. No, we really like to use the heat from our fingers from pulling the mono slowly between them. With the combination of the heat and the stretching it seems to do some good. With rubber or some other material you might burn or over heat and weaken your mono? Some old leaders might not straighten much. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Question:

To what nefarious purpose will these stories be put? Is there compensation for the author or at least ego gratifying recognition? Len Hunter

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I’m starting a collection of fly-fishing stories.  I’d be interested in anything funny, exciting, unbelievable, thrilling, interesting, or just a little odd.  Just email your stories to me.  Please be as accurate in the story as possible. Thanks.

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This story is a fictional compound of several true incidents. Unfortunately, the angler of the lost fly rod was a very nice guy; nothing bad happened to the rude and obnoxious clients.    I knew I was in trouble within a few minutes of meeting the clients. They appeared at the outfitter in full dress–like officers in some weird flyfisherman’s army, brigadiers maybe or Protocol Officers.  In fact, they were arguing over the proper placement of their Backup Nipper. Top-to-bottom Orvis, Sage, Abel, etc.  If they had been paid by the logo we would all have been millionaires.   To be sure, their equipment was glorious.  Several flyrods each, with a lengthy discussion of which was most appropriate (the seven and the eight) and how many the raft could comfortably carry (we agreed on four each, with reservations on the guide’s part.) This despite the fact that we had already covered this ground in phone calls.  Beautiful tackle bags, unmarred. Boxes of flies, in large groups by nomenclature.  I was jealous, I must admit. Even so, I snuck some of my equipment back into the shuttle vehicle; I was a bit worried about payload.     I must say, this was unusual.  Though many of our clients are novices, we rarely see two anglers so obviously overequipped and underexperienced. It’s most usual to see the novice in the care of a more experienced angler. Also, we have no aversion to the inexperienced; our business is teaching, and that calls for patience and flexibility.  This level of confidence belied by the facts was worrisome, though; would the clients’ expectations ruin the trip? Could they cast to the bass, could they hook up at all?  We fish for ten to twelve hours; could inexperienced casters work for that long?  And would they blame me if any of these answers was ‘no’?   We also had to do a lot of preparation, which left me a bit worried about casting skills.  Three of four spools were brand new; it was proposed that we would load spools there at the ramp, while smallmouths chased bait in the shallows around us.  At first the clients were pleasant and relaxed; they said the right things about taking advice and so forth.  We got ready and shoved off.    But as soon as we were feet-wet, things deteriorated.  Tension between the clients became obvious, and I was glad that they sat facing opposite directions.  Their fly choices, casting directions, and retrieves had nothing to do with my advice.  They were in an arms race.  Both were well-tutored by the mainstream fly-fishing press, and they hurled advice at each other like snowballs packed around rocks.  I was in between.   Neither could get their flyline out of the boat.  Half an hour into the trip, drifting along through some of the most spectacular scenery in the East, and they were angry.  Not the best start to a guided trip.  And the smallies were on, too; I saw a lot of surface activity.  When the front angler fought a cast out about three rod-lengths and stripped in the excess flyline, a 14" fish slashed at his dahlberg right at boatside.  That was the only fish they moved all morning.  They changed flies, hung them in brush, on rocks, on the oars.  They debated barbless hooks even as I extracted one from my shoulder, barb fully functional but, thankfully, not quite engaged. They drank single-malt scotch but didn’t like it.   Just for a break, I put them out wading in a shallow, weedy area.  While they hacked and pumped and tied knots, I took a few tentative casts. Smallies to 12" took readily throughout the area. A few minutes later, a shout; one angler hooked, landed, and displayed, with what looked to be a fatal torso squeeze, a nice fish of about 14".  I grew angrier and angrier. In the previous week, tough conditions had limited good, old clients to few fish and few that size.  A few minutes later, with no other fish caught, I mounted them up and rode on.  Things came to a head as we approached a sharp, narrow rapid through a broken-down diversion dam.  The river here is mostly shallow, riffly ledges and rocks, with pools and weeds edges–classic smallmouth water.  As we approached the dam, I told them to pick up and keep their lines in, since the drop required a turn in the throat of the rapid to avoid jagged concrete and rebars that would tear the bottom out of the raft.  Both anglers disregarded this direction, and as we accelerated through the white water the guy in the aft seat hung up.   The boat was in mid-turn, and moving quickly.  I saw the rod go down and bend sharply. The angler called it a fish, but it obviously wasn’t.   "Give line!  You’re hung up!  Drop line!" I yelled.   "It’s a good one," he said.      The boat turned completely so that the flyline ran under, from stem to stern.  He was leaning into my sightline, to his left and my right.  The rod was compounded now, three-guides into the water, and he was holding tight.  I tried to pivot the boat a bit, but I had to hold my direction or risk a wreck.    "Give line!  Your’e hung!  I’ve got to turn.  Your’e going to break the rod!"    He didn’t give line, the rod didn’t break:  he let go of it.  It hung there a weird still second, then snapped straight and dove into the water, hung there a moment, then seemed to zoom upstream as the boat shot down current.  There was a stunned silence, which I welcomed.    As we drifted to a quiet spot, the forward angler asked questions:  He had missed the whole thing.  The aft angler was completely quiet, contemplating the permanent loss of a seven-hundred dollar outfit which had never caught a fish.  The 25-year guarantee didn’t cover loss by misadventure.  Feebly, he tried the Big Fish argument.   I wouldn’t even reply.  Pausing forty yards below the rapid, I was caught in a moral dilemma.    Our river is shallow, but forceful; a young woman had drowned in a canoe mishap against a rock about forty feet from where we sat a few years before. The water was warm, and I knew the spot intimately;  I was fairly sure that I could find the flyrod if the hook still held the snag.  Even if it had come loose, it was highly findable in the hole below, with a floating line and clear water.  But should I?  The angler considered it lost. He had plenty more, and was probably already composing the story for his friends, complete with bronze flash and tail the size of a Bible, no doubt with a supporting role as villain by  Sincerely Yours.  The guy was a mouth and a credit card, who had completely concealed all admirable qualities so far in the four hours we had known each other.  I sat for a long moment, then heaved a heavy sigh and dropped a hook.    "What’s up?" said the angler hopefully.    "You guys sit tight.  I may be able to get it back."    No reply.    I worked my way up to the dam in the slow water, alternately wading and swimming.  The usual friendly smooth river boulders were absent; it was jagged concrete and odd angles.  Careful footholds and a steep lean into the flow.  I couldn’t hope to work all the way up to the main rapid, but the faster water was shallower so I could hold.  Standing waist-deep in it, I stood and looked; sure enough, I saw the but and reel of the rod flare up in the swash.  Decision time.    I imagined how to do it:  Hit the ramp at nine pm, after the glorious dusk whitefly hatch.  Rack up and drop off at 10; drive up here and make the quarter-mile wade in the dark.  Feel through the rapid, hit the line, grab the rod; one sharp pull and I get a $700 tip.  If the day smooths out and the clients turn out OK, return the rod and call it an Abe Lincold honesty thing; if they fulfill their promise as first-class jerks, and especially if they stiff me, then the rod is mine.     The rod rolled up again, almost breaking the surface; I looked back. The forward guy was just watching, but the aft guy was looking away, an odd, vulnerable look on his face.  I realized a lot then, about how the attitude was a veneer, the macho competition covered a softer and simpler person. I couldn’t tell yet if he loved fish or fishing or rivers or boats, but I realized that the loss of the rod was probably fatal to his chances of ever loving any of it.  My guide habits created disdain and disapproval, but my river instincts told me that the river rarely returns something won fairly, and that to abuse the event was bad karma.  I couldn’t resist the impulse.  I gave him a smile and a nod and a thumbs-up, waited for the rod to show again, and leaned forward for it.  An easy catch, a yank and it was mine.  I rode the current back to them, winding up the slack line, and handed him the rod, wet and new.    I’d like to say the event changed the guy and things looked up; it’s half true.  The guy was grateful enough, but he didn’t have the eggs to really see my side of it.  I said, "Now will you listen to me?" and they both nodded, and they took a more relaxed and cooperative approach for a while.  They got their flylines out of the boat a few times, and caught some fish, too.  I got a reasonable tip, though the episode of the lost flyrod wasn’t mentioned again and the tip didn’t reflect the service that day.   I also gained the patience to stick with the difficult clients.  Somehow that day helped me to regain the basic comfort with the river that several years of difficult clients and finicky fish had eroded.  I remembered something that I had forgotten:  a guide is a teacher, and sometimes the best lesson is failure. Davemo18

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Question:

Lost my hiking hat in the Chattooga River above Dam Sluice on section one . White hat with many patches from South Carolina state parks, Canadian National Parks (Fundy, Cape Breton, and Gros Morne) patches, and Foothills Trail patches. A lot of memories down the river! If found,  please e-mail: Thank you. James Alverson

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I tried out a couple Feathercraft folding kayaks today and was quite surprised at how well they handled.  I’m seriously thinking about getting one because of the ease of storage and transport. I’d appreciate any experiences you may have with Feathercraft or any other folding kayaks.  I’m mostly interested in ocean day trips and maybe playing in the surf. Thanks,   Ray Roux

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I tried out a couple Feathercraft folding kayaks today and was quite surprised at how well they handled.  I’m seriously thinking about getting one because of the ease of storage and transport. I’d appreciate any experiences you may have with Feathercraft or any other folding kayaks.  I’m mostly interested in ocean day trips and maybe playing in the surf. Thanks,  Ray Roux

You didn’t mention which models you tried, which is important since they have four singles (in order of size) K-Light, Short Touring, K-1, Khatsalano.  Each has its benefits and idiosyncracies. Probably the best for playing in surf is the Short Touring.  It is around 13.5 feet in length but is a whitewater boat at heart and will turn on a dime.  It is also the strongest boat they make in that it incorporates square aluminum tubing as opposed to round (BTW, the hull on all of them is the same, high grade, expedition weight hypalon sourced from France, perhaps the best source for such).  The square stuff is also used in the company’s double, the K-2.  The Short Touring is a bit more difficult for sea kayaking and does require the flip-up skeg option or a rudder to go straight (the skeg is the better of the options for this as all you are looking for is tracking). The K-Light is also a good choice all around for day trips, open water and some surfing.  It is lighter built than other models but tracks well, turns well, and is a delight to paddle; its shorter length, 12 ft. 10 inches also makes it nice for surfing.  The price is right too at $1800 (the other models are considerably more with the Short Touring at around $3000 if I’m not mistaken.). The K-1 tracks extremely well and is a full-fledged ocean touring boat. Like any regular sea kayak it is a bit limited in surf playing but will get you through a surf okay.  It costs just shy of $4000, so consider this choice carefully.  If camping is your game and you want to take weeks of goodies, this is the boat. (It’s around 16 feet long) The Khatsalano, the newest model of the Feathercraft fleet, is a true Greenland styled boat, narrow in beam, upswept ends, and almost 18 feet long.  It comes in two versions, with and without air tubes or sponsons along the side (most foldables have such perimeter tubes including all the Feathercraft mentioned previously).  Both do require good bracing skills and are best for those who know all the Greenland style paddling, bracing, rolling and sculling techniques.  The one with air tubes is the more easily manageable with only a token level of such skills.  The one without demands you have such skills in spades.  It is a $4100 boat, quite expensive. I really would like to answer your question about experiences with other folding kayaks but that would take tons of space and time since I’ve been in just about all of them over the last eight years and even wrote a book regarding folding kayaks.  You might do well to go to one of those coffee shops masquerading as bookstores, get a copy of my book (The Complete Folding Kayaker, McGraw-Hill, 1994) and read over an expresso or latte to learn more about the range of possibilities with folding kayaks and specifics on other available models. If you have specific questions regarding any model, e-mail me or call. ralph diaz — Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 "Where’s your sea kayak?"—-"It’s in the bag."

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Following up on my last post (pardon me): Get a copy of Ralph Diaz’ book _The Complete Folding Kayaker_.  It has a lot of information on folding boats and if the comments on the K-1 are any guide I’d say the information presented is very accurate and reliable. If you want a really beautiful boat, look at the Feathercraft Khatsolano, a Greenland-style boat.  If I were buying now, and assuming it turned out to be not too advanced a boat for me, I’d probably buy the Khat or maybe the "-S" version (with sponsons) jut because it is gorgeous.

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: I tried out a couple Feathercraft folding kayaks today and was quite : surprised at how well they handled.  I’m seriously thinking about getting : one because of the ease of storage and transport. : I’d appreciate any experiences you may have with Feathercraft or any : other folding kayaks.  I’m mostly interested in ocean day trips and maybe : playing in the surf. : Thanks, :   Ray Roux I bought a Feathercraft K-Light this spring. I really like the way

it handles, although have not yet used it in heavy waves. It went very well in strong headwinds and I was able to keep it nicely on course with side winds. (I do not have a rudder), Re. assembly. I keep mine assembled and car top it, but have taken it down and put it together 3 times now. The first time took me (blush) an hour and a half, straight from the box. The second time was 30 minutes, and the last time including greasing all the connections and putting on the two hatch covers, 25 minutes. I think I can do much better than that with a little practice. It helps to mark some of the parts so that I know which way round they go. I have used the boat on lakes so far, but plan to take it to the coast any chance I get.There seems to be lots of room for gear and I think I could easily pack it for a week’s trip. Hope this helps.

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I tried out a couple Feathercraft folding kayaks today and was quite surprised at how well they handled.  I’m seriously thinking about getting one because of the ease of storage and transport. I’d appreciate any experiences you may have with Feathercraft or any other folding kayaks.  I’m mostly interested in ocean day trips and maybe playing in the surf.

We have two K-1’s and have done a little paddling in them so far — in Puget Sound, off Monterey, and off San Diego.  In this admittedly limited experience we found them to be stable (noticeably more so than the hardshells I’ve tried), reasonably fast (better than some plastic boats I’ve tried; I don’t have experience in fancy Kevlar boats to compare), comfortable, roomy (we were able to fit camping gear, a two-burner Coleman stove, and a pair of crutches in ours without problems), of high build quality (after inspecting the pieces, I understand why they cost so much — there is a ton of machining, welding, anodizing, sewing, etc. in each boat; much more manufacturing effort than in hardshells), easy to store in the closet and ship by airplane, and (the only negatives) heavy to haul around (at the airport, rent a baggage cart!) and rather a chore to put together (despite practice, it still takes me 1/2 hour per boat with some effort.)   All in all, we love our boats and even if I had a garage to store a fully-assembled boat in, I’d probably still buy a Feathercraft because I like how it paddles and _love_ being able to fly somewhere fun and then paddle _my_ boat, not some rental boat.  I’d just leave it assembled! The K-1s track well, turn well with rudder and OK without (keeping in mind that it is a sea kayak meant to go straight.)  I haven’t much surf experience and can’t say how they would handle there.  The sea sock makes me feel very secure and the hatches seem pretty much watertight.   There is less water at the bottom of my wife’s boat after a day of paddling (1cup) than in the typical plastic boats we’ve tried; my boat may have a little "weep" or maybe I’m just a messy guy since there is usually a little more (2 cups), but again not a troublesome amount.  The hulls show no damage or really any wear, although we are careful with them too. I also demo’d the K-Light and thought it was a nice boat, and the lower price and 33-pound weight was tempting.  Because we wanted room for week-long trips, we went for the K-1’s.  The longer wider boat also felt a little more reassuring.  We also tried the K-2 but had no prior experience in a double so can’t really comment. One thing about the Feathercrafts: because of their hardshell-style cockpits they aren’t so handy for fishing, carrying coolers to the beach party, lazing around and getting a tan, and so on.  If I wanted more versatility I would also look at the Klepper and Folbot which have open cockpits.

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: I tried out a couple Feathercraft folding kayaks today and was quite : surprised at how well they handled.  I’m seriously thinking about getting : one because of the ease of storage and transport. : I’d appreciate any experiences you may have with Feathercraft or any : other folding kayaks.  I’m mostly interested in ocean day trips and maybe : playing in the surf. : Thanks, :   Ray Roux Hello Ray, I bought a Feathercraft K-1 last summer and have been out in it around 18 times. I also bought it for its convenience in storage (I live in an apartment) and I also was very impressed with how it handled. BUT, I have found that the assembly and disassembly is a pain when one is using it primarily for day trips. It really takes 45 minutes to an hour to assemble and another 45 minutes to disassemble. When one just wants to get out for a day’s paddle that extra 1-2 hours is a drag.  And if one is paddling with folks who have hardshells, they aren’t too happy waiting for one to put part A into part B.  I now leave my boat assembled for the season (My landlord lets me store it in the basement). If you are ONLY interested in day trips (I do plan to do kayak touring) then you should consider the smaller Feathercraft. The K-Light is said to be much much easier to assemble and disassemble and also is highly rated for handling. The K-light is also a lot less expensive that the K-1. –Doug Denholm —         P.O. Box 79226                       Waverley, MA 02179     "We’ll burn that bridge when we get to it."  

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Question:

The local server was down for 10 days. Before then, there was some talk of creating  a separate newsgroup for fly tyers. How do we vote on this?

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The local server was down for 10 days. Before then, there was some talk of creating  a separate newsgroup for fly tyers. How do we vote on this?

Sir, How to vote: Your e-mail message should contain one and only one of the following statements: I vote YES on rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying                     or I vote NO on rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying Votes must be recieved by 23:59:59 utc, 10 Apr 1996 Hope this helps Tight lines Dave

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Question:

I am looking for some good spots for Saltwater-flyfishing in the vicinity of Boston (MA). Any suggestions for good spots, how to get and fish there are welcome. Thank,   Thomas

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: I am looking for some good spots for Saltwater-flyfishing in the : vicinity of Boston (MA). Any suggestions for good spots, how to get and : fish there are welcome. : Thank,   Thomas In Ma, I am told that the Joppa flats in Newburyport at low tide and Cranes beach in Ipswitch at all tides produce well. However, So. ME is close and there are many spots. I am partial to the beach in front of my house at Ferry Beach in Saco. The nice thing this summer was that the angler could see fish sign-either birds working or fish breaking. June was the best month. Come up next summer. I will give you directions.  y t, m

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Question:

Has anyone been able to find fishable water within 2 hours of Denver? I tried several streams in RMNP last weekend but they are all running high and fast. Cheeseman is at about 2000 CFS. The Big Thompson is currently running at about 300CFS below Lake Estes and although I haven’t seen the river at this volume it sounds fishable (?). Any tips would be GREATLY appreciated!

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Has anyone been able to find fishable water within 2 hours of Denver? I tried several streams in RMNP last weekend but they are all running high and fast. Cheeseman is at about 2000 CFS. The Big Thompson is currently running at about 300CFS below Lake Estes and although I haven’t seen the river at this volume it sounds fishable (?). Any tips would be GREATLY appreciated!

Hiya Justin! I have been experiencing the same problems with blown out streams in Colorado until very recently. Upon realizing that any stream attempt was going to be a disaster, I begrudgingly decided to try my hand at some small lakes. Traditionally, I am the worlds WORST lake fisherman with a fly. I usually cannot catch ANYTHING, but I figured that this option was better than drowning in a swollen river. On a whim, I decided to try fishing the lake at the bottom of St. Mary’s Glacier on Saturday. The fishing was SO much fun that I took Monday off from work to do it again. That lake literally boils with rising brookies. Most of the fish are small (5-8 inches), but they aren’t very picky and it is one of the most beautiful spots around. Fishing there was a great confidence booster for me and while the fish weren’t big, they did end the frustration I have been having with my recent river trips. If you haven’t been there before, just take I-70 slightly past Idaho Springs to Fall River Road (Exit 238). Take fall river road up for quite a ways (You will go over spots of unpaved road) and eventually there is a small parking area on the right and wide rubble trail on the left. Hike up the trail on the left about 3/4 mile. Tie on just about anything and have fun. I caught a bunch on a #18 Blue Wing Olive, but I even took a few on a #12 Adams. Be prepared for funky weather. I got snowed on on Saturday and rained on on Moday. Tight Lines, Chad McArthur

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Has anyone been able to find fishable water within 2 hours of Denver? I tried several streams in RMNP last weekend but they are all running high and fast. Cheeseman is at about 2000 CFS. The Big Thompson is currently running at about 300CFS below Lake Estes and although I haven’t seen the river at this volume it sounds fishable (?). Any tips would be GREATLY appreciated!

Decided to combat near terminal cabin fever and trucked up to S. but sure no crowds.  Caught three in three hours, including the nicest brown on that stretch in two years -18-19".  Wasn’t a lot of fun, tho, with insane tangles trying to cast three 3/0 split shots over top of willows behind.  Can’t wade out more than 3-4′, but fish are to be found close in if you can find some fairly slow water.  Took them all on big bright red worm.  Think Dick at Flies and Lies in Decker called it a "traditional ol’ English-tied worm".  You gotta be near spiritual about this sport to find these conditions a kick!!

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The rivers have been less then ideal.  For myself, I have turned to one of my second favorite activities.  Fly fishing for Bluegill.  Here in the Grand Junction area we have a couple of places that are producing ‘gills to 9 inches plus.  On a four wt. they are a blast.  My E-Mail is I don’t mind company, I just value good fish too much to want to see the meat hunters showing up.

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I’ll be coming out that way in August to visit my brother at CU.  I’ve been to S. Platte and Buffalo (man that place was really crowded), and Cloudland Canyon last spring but am really looking for something a little less crowded (and less touristy).  Need help in Atlanta, Jeff

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Jeff, Since you will be in Boulder you could try the Cache La Poudre. It’s west of Ft. Collins. It has some prime water sites. Other places include the Frying Pan river near Basalt, CO and the Colorado river near

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