Question:

cheers peter waldo, who just shut down the clave… well sorta… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most of you who grace these pages, have heard that I missed the NC clave thanks to a Windows NT project that was going to consume my life for the next two months.  Well, it hasn’t quite turned out that way. Despite all sorts of weird problems and NT idiosyncracies, it’s been rolling along not too badly.  So to cut to the chase, I got to knock off work around 3:00pm on Friday.  My fishing buddy begs off so I head up to the Grand alone.   First a quick stop at Grindstone, met John and he mentioned an access point well downstream of where I normally fish.   OK, new spot – I’m game. After driving by it the first time, I find it and it is a very pretty spot with an old bridge that has been closed to traffic.  The river is fairly wide here so two or three guys can fish the same flat without crowding one another.  There’s one guy fishing already and fish rising all around the flat.  While I’m getting my shit together, he pulls in two fish, one of a half decent size.  We chat when I get down to the water and he recommends small – #16 and under.  This is a late season tactic, early on most of the fish can be taken on #14s and larger. Anyway, I figure since he’s catching fish, I’ll follow suit.  Without going into a long song ‘n dance, I must have hooked up twenty chubs. Most of the rising fish were chubs and some were of a fair size 8+" so it wasn’t always easy to tell the chubs from the browns.  Plus the chubs were so aggressive, they’d often take the fly before it got to the brown I was aiming for. I must of looked like I needed help as he frequently offered advice and instructions on how to set the hook, present a fly, etc.  I was there almost an hour after many chubs, I finally took my first brown on a #20 caddis.  I didn’t really go for his "small is better" philosophy and standing around, I could see larger insects coming off. Just upstream of me, a brown lunged at an emerging caddis and missed. The caddis flew toward me and I caught it – tan body, size #14, dark spotted wing – perfect Kings River Caddis.  On went a #14 KRC and good things started to happen.  After a few browns, I caught one very large chub with what appeared to be spines on it’s head and a pink hue to the scales.  Afterward, I looked it up at home and the spines were tubercles – the fish was in its spawning colours.  It was a pretty fish but I was getting fed up of the chubs. To solve the chub problem, I tied on a min-brown streamer.  After about ten casts I’d hooked up six or seven fish.  This went on for about half an hour and along the way, I managed to pick up one nice one amongst the smaller browns.  After I landed the nice one, the other guy announces that he’s going back to his car to get some streamers.  After about 20 or so browns, my poor little mini was wrecked – it was the only one I had left.  I moved to the other side of the bridge and took about another half-dozen on a Little Brown Trout before the thunder started up and I headed home. BTW, after about my tenth brown on the mini, the flow of instructions sorta dried up.  <g Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

– Walter G. Winter Ezflyfish.com:  http://www.ezflyfish.com Blue Ridge Book Gallery: http://www.crosswinds.net/~brbg/books/brbg-2.html

Response:

Most of you who grace these pages, have heard that I missed the NC clave thanks to a Windows NT project that was going to consume my life for the next two months.  Well, it hasn’t quite turned out that way. Despite all sorts of weird problems and NT idiosyncracies, it’s been rolling along not too badly.  So to cut to the chase, I got to knock off work around 3:00pm on Friday.  My fishing buddy begs off so I head up to the Grand alone.   First a quick stop at Grindstone, met John and he mentioned an access point well downstream of where I normally fish.   OK, new spot – I’m game. After driving by it the first time, I find it and it is a very pretty spot with an old bridge that has been closed to traffic.  The river is fairly wide here so two or three guys can fish the same flat without crowding one another.  There’s one guy fishing already and fish rising all around the flat.  While I’m getting my shit together, he pulls in two fish, one of a half decent size.  We chat when I get down to the water and he recommends small – #16 and under.  This is a late season tactic, early on most of the fish can be taken on #14s and larger. Anyway, I figure since he’s catching fish, I’ll follow suit.  Without going into a long song ‘n dance, I must have hooked up twenty chubs. Most of the rising fish were chubs and some were of a fair size 8+" so it wasn’t always easy to tell the chubs from the browns.  Plus the chubs were so aggressive, they’d often take the fly before it got to the brown I was aiming for. I must of looked like I needed help as he frequently offered advice and instructions on how to set the hook, present a fly, etc.  I was there almost an hour after many chubs, I finally took my first brown on a #20 caddis.  I didn’t really go for his "small is better" philosophy and standing around, I could see larger insects coming off. Just upstream of me, a brown lunged at an emerging caddis and missed. The caddis flew toward me and I caught it – tan body, size #14, dark spotted wing – perfect Kings River Caddis.  On went a #14 KRC and good things started to happen.  After a few browns, I caught one very large chub with what appeared to be spines on it’s head and a pink hue to the scales.  Afterward, I looked it up at home and the spines were tubercles – the fish was in its spawning colours.  It was a pretty fish but I was getting fed up of the chubs. To solve the chub problem, I tied on a min-brown streamer.  After about ten casts I’d hooked up six or seven fish.  This went on for about half an hour and along the way, I managed to pick up one nice one amongst the smaller browns.  After I landed the nice one, the other guy announces that he’s going back to his car to get some streamers.  After about 20 or so browns, my poor little mini was wrecked – it was the only one I had left.  I moved to the other side of the bridge and took about another half-dozen on a Little Brown Trout before the thunder started up and I headed home. BTW, after about my tenth brown on the mini, the flow of instructions sorta dried up.  <g Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Question:

Opie writes: Ok, I concede redeye gravy an grits. Opie

Heeeehaaaaa.  A yankee teachin’ a pooh boy how to eat!  Heyyyahhh.  Georgia ice cream!!!!!!   Course, a good vodka to help it along is always welcome.  <g Dave LaCourse

Response:

Jeff,   Those southern guys put gravy on everything.

They just *told* you it was gravy<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Ernie Harrison writes: Jeff,   Those southern guys put gravy on everything. Ernie Hell, there are few things better than good old country ham, red eye gravy and grits (good grits — none of that instant stuff). Dave, whose marriage to two southern belles is obviously showing.

Huh?  I thought they only did that in Utah.  Hey Verrrrrnnnn!

Response:

Jeff, You obviously need a bit more Southern acculturation. Opie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you fellas can’t handle *Grits,* just leave them to us real southern folk. Being a northern guy, I didn’t understand the problem with grits.  Ya see, I thought they were Cream O Wheat, so I just put brown sugar and milk on em.  I always thought grits were fine until I heard about stuff like gravy and butter and salt on em!!! — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

Jeff,    Those southern guys put gravy on everything. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Being a northern guy, I didn’t understand the problem with grits.  Ya see, I thought they were Cream O Wheat, so I just put brown sugar and milk on em.  I always thought grits were fine until I heard about stuff like gravy and butter and salt on em!!! Jeff

Response:

Ernie Harrison writes: Jeff,   Those southern guys put gravy on everything. Ernie

Hell, there are few things better than good old country ham, red eye gravy and grits (good grits — none of that instant stuff). Dave, whose marriage to two southern belles is obviously showing.

Response:

Except *GRITS.* Opie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff,    Those southern guys put gravy on everything. Ernie Being a northern guy, I didn’t understand the problem with grits.  Ya see, I thought they were Cream O Wheat, so I just put brown sugar and milk on em.  I always thought grits were fine until I heard about stuff like gravy and butter and salt on em!!! Jeff

Response:

Ok, I concede redeye gravy an grits. Opie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ernie Harrison writes: Jeff,   Those southern guys put gravy on everything. Ernie Hell, there are few things better than good old country ham, red eye gravy and grits (good grits — none of that instant stuff). Dave, whose marriage to two southern belles is obviously showing.

Response:

If you fellas can’t handle *Grits,* just leave them to us real southern folk.

Being a northern guy, I didn’t understand the problem with grits.  Ya see, I thought they were Cream O Wheat, so I just put brown sugar and milk on em.  I always thought grits were fine until I heard about stuff like gravy and butter and salt on em!!! — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I look forward to the Times on Wednesday morning, more so than any other morning of the week, because of the recipes in the Living Arts section. I was shocked, stunned and disgusted to find in today’s paper recipes for…I can barely bring myself to type it Ohmygawd. Grits … in the Times. Shoot me now, I’ve seen it all. Jeffie can have my Budweiser and Waldo my Django Rheinhart records. http://www.nytimes.com/library/dining/042600grits.html — Ken Fortenberry

The way you scoffed buscuits and gravy at Tootsie’s I’d always thought you to be a grits fan.  Thought you’d be pleased when the Times ran it. Don’t that beat all . . . Peter

Response:

If they called it polenta would you be so upset? It’s essentially the same thing. Peter G. Aitken

damn I thought grits was cream of wheat with sand in it…. Flyfish

Response:

If they called it polenta would you be so upset? It’s essentially the same thing. Peter G. Aitken damn I thought grits was cream of wheat with sand in it…. Flyfish

Nah – couldn’t be – cream of wheat and sand actually has FLAVOR!

Response:

Polenta is made from whole stone ground cornmeal. That would imply some flavor to be had. Grits are made from hominy. That’s what is left after soaking corn in a lye solution and removing the bran or kernel. The original "Better eating through chemistry!". I’m from down south and I never could get used them myself. MT

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If they called it polenta would you be so upset? It’s essentially the same thing. Peter G. Aitken

Response:

Buy a good set of gravel guards, keeps the grit out.

I got the neoprene ones with the velcro closures.  Real easy to put on and very effective for keeping grits out but they also make breathing somewhat problematic.

Response:

If you fellas can’t handle *Grits,* just leave them to us real southern folk.  Cream-O-Shit, some comparison! Opie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Buy a good set of gravel guards, keeps the grit out. I got the neoprene ones with the velcro closures.  Real easy to put on and very effective for keeping grits out but they also make breathing somewhat problematic.

Response:

If you fellas can’t handle *Grits,* just leave them to us real southern folk.  Cream-O-Shit, some comparison! Opie

you’re damn tootin! thank god i had me a plateful this morning, o/w i wouldn’t have been able to land that big ‘ole ‘bow from yer drift did you and jeffie (who despises grits, but loves marshmellows) get any more fish after i left? i caught a couple of small brookies twitchin’ the fly back downstream on the way out. waldo

Response:

damn I thought grits was cream of wheat with sand in it…. Flyfish

When I was stationed at Ft. Jackson SC back in the 60’s they would occasionally serve some white stuff for breakfast. If a northener asked what it was the cook would tell him cream of wheat and of course the reply to a southerner was grits. Half the mess hall would put milk & suger on it, the other half salt & pepper. Thank God I was cadre and didn’t have to eat anything I couldn’t identify.      Jim * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Walt, I can’t speak for Jeff, but my life has no meaning.  Does that answer your question? Opie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you fellas can’t handle *Grits,* just leave them to us real southern folk.  Cream-O-Shit, some comparison! Opie you’re damn tootin! thank god i had me a plateful this morning, o/w i wouldn’t have been able to land that big ‘ole ‘bow from yer drift did you and jeffie (who despises grits, but loves marshmellows) get any more fish after i left? i caught a couple of small brookies twitchin’ the fly back downstream on the way out. waldo

Response:

Buy a good set of gravel guards, keeps the grit out. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Walt, I can’t speak for Jeff, but my life has no meaning.  Does that answer your question? Opie

yeah… it tells me ya got in the cooler waldo

Response:

I look forward to the Times on Wednesday morning, more so than any other morning of the week, because of the recipes in the Living Arts section. I was shocked, stunned and disgusted to find in today’s paper recipes for…I can barely bring myself to type it Ohmygawd. Grits … in the Times. Shoot me now, I’ve seen it all. Jeffie can have my Budweiser and Waldo my Django Rheinhart records. http://www.nytimes.com/library/dining/042600grits.html — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I was shocked, stunned and disgusted to find in today’s paper recipes for…I can barely bring myself to type it Ohmygawd. Grits … in the Times. Ken Fortenberry

GRITS!  Wonderful!  Why Ken; don’t you know grits are the closest thing you can have to nothing and still have something??!!  They are the base requirement to serving red-eye gravey! They are also not off-topic to fly fishing.  A good breakfast of grits fortifies the intrepid fly fisher-person for the day with an extra fast energy supply from the starches, sticks with you to aswage hunger, and passes along slowly enough to keep you from having to peel out of your waders around 10:30. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I look forward to the Times on Wednesday morning, more so than any other morning of the week, because of the recipes in the Living Arts section. I was shocked, stunned and disgusted to find in today’s paper recipes for…I can barely bring myself to type it Ohmygawd. Grits … in the Times. Shoot me now, I’ve seen it all. Jeffie can have my Budweiser and Waldo my Django Rheinhart records. http://www.nytimes.com/library/dining/042600grits.html — Ken Fortenberry

um…ken, i think you transposed…no way i’m takin the budweiser.  give it to waldo, he’ll drink anything.  but the records might work. jeff

Response:

If they called it polenta would you be so upset? It’s essentially the same thing. Peter G. Aitken

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I look forward to the Times on Wednesday morning, more so than any other morning of the week, because of the recipes in the Living Arts section. I was shocked, stunned and disgusted to find in today’s paper recipes for…I can barely bring myself to type it Ohmygawd. Grits … in the Times. Shoot me now, I’ve seen it all. Jeffie can have my Budweiser and Waldo my Django Rheinhart records. http://www.nytimes.com/library/dining/042600grits.html — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

If they called it polenta would you be so upset? It’s essentially the same thing.

Right, and a lump of coal and a diamond are essentially the same thing. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

First, thanks for all of the replies I received. Tonight I found at least one of the problems and heat makes it worse, not better.  The MCT finish I’ve been used is much less viscous than regular epoxies so it will run easily.  My first and second coats are great, smooth and even.  I should stop there but the third coat always ends up clumping up at either end of the wrap and thin in the middle, giving the wrap a dumbell look, not the the "bubble" look of a factory finish.  I now know why. Where the foot of the guide is ground down, a ramp is formed.  On the first and second coats, the epoxy grips the threads and everything is fine.  On the third coat, the wraps are now covered and epoxy has nothing to grip.  Consequently it runs down the ramp created by the ground down portion of the guide foot.  When the rod is turning and the guide is up, the epoxy runs away from the guide.  When the guide rotates down, it runs toward the guide – result, very little left in the middle.  I realized this when I noticed a blob of excess epoxy flow down the ramp as the rod turned. Who would have thunk it. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I’ve noticed something interesting in the past year or so. The World Wide Web has matured in the following sense. It’s become the primary source for research on many topics, from the mndane to the obscure. It’s been clear for a few years that this would eventually happen, but now it has, and the WWW is just going to become more entrenched and comprehensive. Everyone with Internet access now has a first-class library in their home. In a year it will be a world-class library. In another year it may well be the only library. If you doubt this just go to www.google.com (the finest search engine on the Web) and type in a flyfishing knot. If you can’t find it, don’t complain — make a web site. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Peter try this if you want the bulbous look with MCT finish. This method applies equally to first or later coats.  I always put on two coats at a time.  Put a very thin layer of the stuff, of even thickness over the guide wraps.  The only way to get an even coat like this is to use a very small amount of epoxy so that it forms a film around your wrap (otherwise any thicker amount of epoxy will flow and self level or worse, it may work its way to the edges and you’ll get the dumbell effect).  I coat the entire rod from butt to tip in one sitting with a very thin film of epoxy, just to get the wraps wet.  Since it is thin, and since this epoxy has an evaporative solvent, it begins to thicken faster than the epoxy mixture you have sitting in your mixing pot.  Once you’ve covered all the wraps, go back to the first one and apply a continuous bead of epoxy around the middle of each wrap. The first layer will be wet enough so that you get a smooth transition between this second application and the epoxy you applied several minutes earlier (basically it breaks the surface tension).  Applying a bead of epoxy like this over a completely dried, previous coat will cause the bead to have a "shoulder" and not be smooth (think water droplets on a piece of wax paper).  However, the undercoating by this time has become more  viscous than the second coating you have begun applying and so this second coating tends not to run all the way to the edges of the wrap.  Thus the undercoating is wet enough to break surface tension of the second coat but dried enough to keep the second coat from flowing too easily. The "ramp" that you mention, which is caused by the guide feet under the thread is of course even more pronounced with guide feet for conventional tackle.  Using the above technique, I could easily get the bulbous look on a musky casting rod I built last year.  It took about 5 coats however. For typical snake guides, it takes about 3 coats (well I guess that’s technically 6 coats, but the setup and wait time is not any longer than for three coats since I am always applying 2 coats at a time). MCT’s web site has been down for a while ( 1 week or so ).  I hope they are still in business.  Otherwise I’ll have to start buying Dale Clemen’s Crystal Cote (www.clemenstackle.com). Mu

Response:

Peter try this if you want the bulbous look with MCT finish.

For further clarification, for that "continuous" bead of epoxy, it need not be applied with one continuous stroke of the brush.  "Continuous" just means that it is a connected ring of epoxy around the guide wrap.  Also, when applying the "bead", don’t let the brush touch the undercoat, just bring the tip of it close enough (2 – 3 mm) to the rod so that the epoxy flows off the brush and onto the rod.  A drying motor of less than 10 RPM is preferable for use with the thin finish.  Don’t worry if the excess epoxy flows to the underside of the wrpas as the rod is turning. If fact, that is what you want.  The "ramp" only exits on one side of the rod blank – if viewed down the shaft of the rod, the guide foot might subtend an angle of only a few degrees, the rest of the 360 degrees is just rod blank and the turning will minimize the flowing down the ramp. Mu

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Peter try this if you want the bulbous look with MCT finish. For further clarification, for that "continuous" bead of epoxy, it need not be applied with one continuous stroke of the brush.  "Continuous" just means that it is a connected ring of epoxy around the guide wrap.  Also, when applying the "bead", don’t let the brush touch the undercoat, just bring the tip of it close enough (2 – 3 mm) to the rod so that the epoxy flows off the brush and onto the rod.  A drying motor of less than 10 RPM is preferable for use with the thin finish.  Don’t worry if the excess epoxy flows to the underside of the wrpas as the rod is turning. If fact, that is what you want.  The "ramp" only exits on one side of the rod blank – if viewed down the shaft of the rod, the guide foot might subtend an angle of only a few degrees, the rest of the 360 degrees is just rod blank and the turning will minimize the flowing down the ramp. Mu

I was doing something along the lines of this and as the rod turned, I watched a bead of epoxy roll around onto the ramp of the foot then flow lengthwise toward the guide.  The reason for the dumbell then became apparent.  I’ve also tried the double application with so-so results on a different rod.  I’m going to give up on the factory bubble and be satisfied with a sealed wrap.  After two coats the rod look great, after three it looked like shit. Thanks for the explanation, but I know when I’m licked. Peter

Response:

Question:

it was likely the intent to drive you off the run. I’ve experienced the same. Two or three fishing buddies think they can intimidate you off the water. Best thing to do is leave.

But Ralph….. If you leave, haven’t they just accomplished what they set out to do? I know that discretion is the better part of valour and he who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day, but dammit there are times when you just gotta say "I was here first" (it works for the natives) With one above and one below I think I’d just camp there for a while. If they really are fishing buddies, its gonna cramp their style to have me in between them and that’s just what I’d do! Tough Sh*t if they don’t like it

Response:

200 feet on Yellowstone Lake is pretty damned close….was the lake calm ?

Tim, I’ve agreed with you most of the time but 200′ anywhere is not close. Joel Axelrad

Response:

P.S. I had some marvelous fishing on scenic small streams (in solitude) in the Park.

Right. I grew up fishing small streams, and I’ve never gotten over the notion that "real" fly fishing is conducted in the quiet ofwilderness and the company of one or two like-minded friends. I also believe that the best fishing is usually found right between your ears and not in some exotic, faraway place on a map. Dennis Smith Loveland, CO

Response:

It is annoying when you are on a lake as big as Yellowstone and some guy driving by sees you catch a fish and the next thing you know you are standing in a crowd of fishermen. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 200 feet on Yellowstone Lake is pretty damned close….was the lake calm ? Tim, I’ve agreed with you most of the time but 200′ anywhere is not close. Joel Axelrad

Response:

t was likely the intent to drive you off the run. I’ve experienced the same. Two or three fishing buddies think they can intimidate you off the water. Best thing to do is leave.

Sometimes I wonder, when I’m in this situation. Maybe if I were to just be a clumsy, noisy fisherman for a while, put all the fish down, then *they* would leave. It might take a while for the pool to settle out again, but it might be worth it. FlyFisherRay

Response:

t was likely the intent to drive you off the run. I’ve experienced the same. Two or three fishing buddies think they can intimidate you off the water. Best thing to do is leave. Sometimes I wonder, when I’m in this situation. Maybe if I were to just be a clumsy, noisy fisherman for a while, put all the fish down, then *they* would leave. It might take a while for the pool to settle out again, but it might be worth it. FlyFisherRay

now I like that! Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

Response:

First, there is no such thing as Western etiquette… The South prety much controls the market on regional etiquette (although there it’s known as "hospitality"). Second, if there was such a thing as Western etiquette, the first rule would be: If you’re in a float tube, and you’re (justly or unjustly) rebuffed by a bank fisherman, politely smile and quickly move on. You’ve no idea what he’s got back in his pickup, and you’re worse than a sitting duck, so you don’t want to escalate the conflict. Glad to see you followed rule #1. -chuck o. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just spent a week in Yellowstone Park and am rather confused about etiquette.  Fishing a run on Soda Butte Creek, someone got in at the head of the run, at most 100 feet away, and then his friend got in below me on the same run.  I thought this was very rude, so I drove upstream to another section. The next day I float-tubed Yellowstone Lake.  I gave adequately wide berth to a shore fisherman, passing him 200 feet out and not even casting, and he called me an asshole.  Is there some widely accepted protocol on this?     – Offended in Ohio P.S. I had some marvelous fishing on scenic small streams (in solitude) in the Park.  It occurred to me however, that outside of the occasional 15" cutthroat,  I can have just as much fun fishing scenic small streams in Pennsylvania with much lower travel costs.

Response:

Pretty hard to say where this etiquette originated.  This time of year you won’t find many locals fishing the popular tourist places.  In August on Yellowstone Lake, the fisherman in question could have been from damn near any place on the planet. Da? Parochially Yours, Don Kelly Butte, MT

Response:

And of course you assumed he was a "Westerner" ???? A true Westerner would not have called you a bad name – he might just have pulled out his gun and let you have it . A transplanted Pennsyltuckian. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just spent a week in Yellowstone Park and am rather confused about etiquette.  Fishing a run on Soda Butte Creek, someone got in at the head of the run, at most 100 feet away, and then his friend got in below me on the same run.  I thought this was very rude, so I drove upstream to another section. The next day I float-tubed Yellowstone Lake.  I gave adequately wide berth to a shore fisherman, passing him 200 feet out and not even casting, and he called me an asshole.  Is there some widely accepted protocol on this?     – Offended in Ohio P.S. I had some marvelous fishing on scenic small streams (in solitude) in the Park.  It occurred to me however, that outside of the occasional 15" cutthroat,  I can have just as much fun fishing scenic small streams in Pennsylvania with much lower travel costs.

Response:

Hell – at that distance you would have trouble figuring out which one of my "Western" fingers I was showing you. My rule of thumb – I assume you got a heavy surf rod and 3 ounces of lead. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 200 feet on Yellowstone Lake is pretty damned close….was the lake calm ? Tim, I’ve agreed with you most of the time but 200′ anywhere is not close. Joel Axelrad

Response:

How about boaters/rafters giving a wide berth to waders? I think that is fairly common Western etiquette. It comes to mind because last year I was wading downstream while nymphing on the Big Hole. A guy and his girl float down right next to me, then pull in not 100 ft. below. I was incensed. I said: "can’t you see I’m heading downstream." They call *me* an asshole and then move on. -CB – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – First, there is no such thing as Western etiquette… The South prety much controls the market on regional etiquette (although there it’s known as "hospitality"). Second, if there was such a thing as Western etiquette, the first rule would be: If you’re in a float tube, and you’re (justly or unjustly) rebuffed by a bank fisherman, politely smile and quickly move on. You’ve no idea what he’s got back in his pickup, and you’re worse than a sitting duck, so you don’t want to escalate the conflict.

Response:

Hey I’m from Wyoming, and the last place you’ll find me is where all them damn tourists who drive 2000 miles to fish some of the published waters in the state. Seems to me that since they drove all that way, they own the water, Well, I’ll just let them have it. I’ll go where the good fishing is and avoid the crowds, the hassel and the small fish.  And yes, my friend avoid the big waters too, makes more since to go for big fish, Don’t ask, I’m not telling

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I just spent a week in Yellowstone Park and am rather confused about etiquette.  Fishing a run on Soda Butte Creek, someone got in at the head of the run, at most 100 feet away, and then his friend got in below me on the same run.  I thought this was very rude, so I drove upstream to another section.   The next day I float-tubed Yellowstone Lake.  I gave adequately wide berth to a shore fisherman, passing him 200 feet out and not even casting, and he called me an asshole.  Is there some widely accepted protocol on this?     – Offended in Ohio P.S. I had some marvelous fishing on scenic small streams (in solitude) in the Park.  It occurred to me however, that outside of the occasional 15" cutthroat,  I can have just as much fun fishing scenic small streams in Pennsylvania with much lower travel costs.  

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Given that Yellowstone is the "magnet" that it is for fishermen, it may be an incorrect assumption that these were "Westerners" you were fishing with/against  =) ….. after all, you were from the "East", right???? 8^) It seems that the "bigger" the water) in name and reputation, the bigger the head of the people fishing it… it’s sort of the "Well, dammit…I came x hundred/thousand miles to fish this water and I’m gonna do as I DAMN WELL PLEASE" so, in the middle of the summer…you can expect some of this. As for the scenery to size ratio….personally, I’d take Wyoming over Pennsylvania ANY DAY!! Now, if you wanna REALLY experience some Western Streamside lack of hospitality…try gettin into a Steelhead or Salmon run in California when the bait and metal fishers are out……say on the American or Feather Rivers….maybe the Lower Sacramento or Klamath…..your choice!! Larry #:)#

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just spent a week in Yellowstone Park and am rather confused about etiquette. Fishing a run on Soda Butte Creek, someone got in at the head of the run, at most 100 feet away, and then his friend got in below me on the same run.  I thought this was very rude, so I drove upstream to another section.   The next day I float-tubed Yellowstone Lake.  I gave adequately wide berth to a shore fisherman, passing him 200 feet out and not even casting, and he called me an asshole.  Is there some widely accepted protocol on this?    - Offended in Ohio P.S. I had some marvelous fishing on scenic small streams (in solitude) in the Park.  It occurred to me however, that outside of the occasional 15" cutthroat, I can have just as much fun fishing scenic small streams in Pennsylvania with much lower travel costs.   </PRE</HTML

The guys 100′ up and 100′ down were a little close.  Given the crowded condition of Yellowstone, this time of year, you just have to put up with it. Personally I would enter 200-250 yards up or down from another fellow fisher.  The guy that called you an asshole on the lake was the asshole.  200′ away – what was he using for a fishing rig – a cannon? If you want a great Yellowstone experiance – plan to go 2 weeks after Labor Day.  The crowds are reduced by more than half. The fishing pressure is greatly reduced. The traveling around is twice as fast.  You might run into some rough weather but the fishing, in the park,  is great in bad weather. Joel Axelrad

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I knew a Steelhead fisherman that painted an X on a rock and would get so mad when he found someone standing on it that he started taking it home. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Given that Yellowstone is the "magnet" that it is for fishermen, it may be an incorrect assumption that these were "Westerners" you were fishing with/against  =) ….. after all, you were from the "East", right???? 8^) It seems that the "bigger" the water) in name and reputation, the bigger the head of the people fishing it… it’s sort of the "Well, dammit…I came x hundred/thousand miles to fish this water and I’m gonna do as I DAMN WELL PLEASE" so, in the middle of the summer…you can expect some of this. As for the scenery to size ratio….personally, I’d take Wyoming over Pennsylvania ANY DAY!! Now, if you wanna REALLY experience some Western Streamside lack of hospitality…try gettin into a Steelhead or Salmon run in California when the bait and metal fishers are out……say on the American or Feather Rivers….maybe the Lower Sacramento or Klamath…..your choice!! Larry #:)#

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I gave adequately wide berth to a shore fisherman, passing him 200 feet out and not even casting, and he called me an asshole.  Is there some widely accepted protocol on this?

 Very ignorant, but then he probably felt safe at this distance! — Bill

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When fishing any of the popularcrowdedfamous waters in the West, you’re sure to run into A**H****.  Fly fishing is not a social or team sport and there are no rules or "etiquette" (whatever that is). Ob these pubilicized waters, it often more like going to a Mall on dollar day and trying to fight the crowds for a "bargain." This is ONE of the reasons I personally avoid these waters. The West has alot of lesser known rivers and streams that provide some great fishing away from the crowds. However, these waters are getting harder and harder to find and most are kept "secret."  (See post about To Tell Or Not To Tell) These are very hard to find when travelling unless you do some homework before you go. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just spent a week in Yellowstone Park and am rather confused about etiquette.  Fishing a run on Soda Butte Creek, someone got in at the head of the run, at most 100 feet away, and then his friend got in below me on the same run.  I thought this was very rude, so I drove upstream to another section. The next day I float-tubed Yellowstone Lake.  I gave adequately wide berth to a shore fisherman, passing him 200 feet out and not even casting, and he called me an asshole.  Is there some widely accepted protocol on this?     – Offended in Ohio P.S. I had some marvelous fishing on scenic small streams (in solitude) in the Park.  It occurred to me however, that outside of the occasional 15" cutthroat,  I can have just as much fun fishing scenic small streams in Pennsylvania with much lower travel costs.

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I gave adequately wide berth to a shore fisherman, passing him 200 feet out and not even casting, and he called me an asshole.  Is there some widely accepted protocol on this? Very ignorant, but then he probably felt safe at this distance!

Very good point Bill… offensiveness is so often directly proportional to distance or percieved invulnerability.  Witness the sad characters who use terms such as ‘pig-headed twit’, ‘eat sh.. and die’ etc in what is supposed to be a sociable forum such as this.  One wonders if they would use the same school-yard insults face to face?  Probably not, as a hearty smack in the mouth can be pretty offensive too, in its own way. We can be nasty little characters, safely closeted away with our computers, or at the other side of a raging river.  Schoolboys even make faces at gigantic ’silverback’ male gorillas – from the other side of the bars, of course. Just the opinion of this birtish ninny. — Stuart Nuttall (Replace ‘nospam’ with ‘warboyz’ to reply by e-mail)

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Very good point Bill… offensiveness is so often directly proportional to distance or percieved invulnerability.  Witness the sad characters who use terms such as ‘pig-headed twit’, ‘eat sh.. and die’ etc in what is supposed to be a sociable forum such as this.  One wonders if they would use the same school-yard insults face to face?  Probably not, as a hearty smack in the mouth can be pretty offensive too, in its own way. We can be nasty little characters, safely closeted away with our computers, or at the other side of a raging river.  Schoolboys even make faces at gigantic ’silverback’ male gorillas – from the other side of the bars, of course. Just the opinion of this birtish ninny. — Stuart Nuttall (Replace ‘nospam’ with ‘warboyz’ to reply by e-mail)

Thanks for some back-up Stuart. Hey, us birtish ninnies have to stick together! No, seriously though, it just isn’t worth the effort. Ever fish Bewl? Aye, Tony

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Here in New York State, we have some of the most reprehensible streamside behavior there is on the Salmon River.  Enormous crowds will snag fish, litter, blare radios, cut in on spots or even individual fish, pick fistfights or even exchange gunfire.  It is a world class fishery swarmed by bottom class humanity. Let the occasional insult just roll right off you.  It could be far worse. Pete C

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I just spent a week in Yellowstone Park and am rather confused about etiquette. Fishing a run on Soda Butte Creek, someone got in at the head of the run, at most 100 feet away, and then his friend got in below me on the same run.  I thought this was very rude, so I drove upstream to another section.

it was likely the intent to drive you off the run. I’ve experienced the same. Two or three fishing buddies think they can intimidate you off the water. Best thing to do is leave. The next day I float-tubed Yellowstone Lake.  I gave adequately wide berth to a shore fisherman, passing him 200 feet out and not even casting, and he called me an asshole.  Is there some widely accepted protocol on this?

the accepted protocol is don’t come  any closer than 2 maximum cast lengths or about 150 feet (give or take) – so the fella’ in question was likely suffering from a mild case of caffine poisoning. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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[deleted] The next day I float-tubed Yellowstone Lake.  I gave adequately wide berth to a shore fisherman, passing him 200 feet out and not even casting, and he called me an asshole.

[deleted] 200 feet on Yellowstone Lake is pretty damned close….was the lake calm ? Was it clear ? You probably *did* spook his fishing to some degree….was it necessary to pass that close ?  Why ?  Remember, this guy was on vacation too man. But, you asked…is there a western ettiquette ? If there is one, it would have to be that we haven’t quite given in to the notion of fishing in a crowd. What seems like a lot of room to you is ‘butt-buddy’ close out here.  Like I said…Lake Yellowstone is HUGE (how many miles of shoreline…? How many anglers on the shore ?) You come flippin through within a couple of hundred feet and it ‘feels’ like you’re crawling up ‘em. And then there *is* the current politics.  Many bait and lure anglers out here feel (VERY JUSTIFIED IMO) that the flyfishing/float tubing/Orvis Wearing/Jeep Driving/Catch and Release Angling contingent is the bassmaster ruination of the sport (Western Flyfishing).  These guys just took it out on you. There it is.  Unabashed support for the shore angler and a Western etiquette. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

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I knew a Steelhead fisherman that painted an X on a rock and would get so mad when he found someone standing on it that he started taking it home.

at least he knew what mattered most to him … or perhaps he wanted to cook up a good "Stone Soup"? Is there a bridge here between the endless c&r c&k dialectic? Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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My rule of thumb: if possible, Two of my casts plus one of his casts distance between me and him. Using this rule, you would both have to cast 60 – 70 feet. Not likely. FlyFisherRay

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Question:

Does anyone know how good the fishing is NJ. Also where would be some of the better spots. I won’t be back there for another 10 months. I have taken it up here in Alaska and I don’t know what I would if I had to give up this new passion of mine. — Ralph Muro TwinTech "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms…disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -Thomas Jefferson

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i live in nj and can tell you that there are some really hot spots,then i read your little proclamation about guns. having been shot by some idiot in the past i think i’ll keep the honey hole to myself, and keep you gun toting kooks away.

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Hey Mickey, I leave near NJ, in Philly, and Have a house in Browns Mills NJ.. What are some of the Hot spots. Please send some E-Mail. -Steve — I think a good product would be "Baby Duck Hat". It’s a fake baby duck, which you strap on top of your head. Then you go swimming underwater until you find a mommy duck and her babies, and you join them. Then, all of a sudden, you stand up out of the water and roar like Godzilla. Man, those ducks really take off! Also, Baby Duck Hat is good for parties. -Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -i live in nj and can tell you that there are some really hot spots,then i read your little proclamation about guns. having been shot by some idiot in the past i think i’ll keep the honey hole to myself, and keep you gun toting kooks away.

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Dear reader,                I am atemting to go muski fishing with my fly rod this summer but I have no idae what to use. This is a road less traveled by , by fly fishermen and I hope to beat a path. so, if you could tell me any info. at all I would much apperciate it.(flys,patterns  ideas extra)                                Hopefully helped,(by you)                                                          me

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Dear reader,                I am atemting to go muski fishing with my fly rod this summer but I have no idae what to use. This is a road less traveled by , by fly fishermen and I hope to beat a path. so, if you could tell me any info. at all I would much apperciate it.(flys,patterns  ideas extra)                                Hopefully helped,(by you)                                                          me

Like you say, this is the road not taken, and you hope to beat a path, so why are you asking for fly patterns?  Why not take some big feathers and fur and tie them on some big hooks and cast them with a big rod and give big twitches like a big dead minnow down deep near a big weedbed where big muskies live.  If you don’t catch anything then you will be learning what doesn’t work, so you try other things until you start catching them. Mark Vinsel — http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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Question:

I will be relocating to the Balt. area in July, probably NW of the city. Does anyone know how the fishing is in that area? Is there a TU group there? Also could use some info. on places to live. The only thing I’m locked into is the Balt. area, so I’m flexable as to where I can move. Preferably somewhere that has a great trout stream in my backyard! Thanks

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I will be relocating to the Balt. area in July, probably NW of the city. Does anyone know how the fishing is in that area? Is there a TU group there? Also could use some info. on places to live. The only thing I’m locked into is the Balt. area, so I’m flexable as to where I can move. Preferably somewhere that has a great trout stream in my backyard!

I attended my first meeting of the Gaithersburg, Md Chapter of TU last night. The guest speaker was a Professional Fly Casting Instructor whoes home waters are the Patapsco River which emptys into Baltimore Habor. He lives in Ellicott City, MD (on the Patapsco) and seemed very knowledgable. His name is Philip Krista (410-461-3007). — Alvin E. Crane 512 Suffield Drive Gaithersburg, MD 20878-2679 Voice: 301-208-8114  Fax: 301-208-8681

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The Patapsco above Ellicott City (more specifically RT. 40 bridge to the dam at Daniels) is a ball to fish for smallmouths and redeyes.  It’s a small stream, easy to wade and full of fish.  Favorite stretch?  The 100 yard stretch below the island at the steel bridge at Old Frederick Rd.   The stream bed is full of junk tires, and there’s a bass in the middle of every one.  Yellow marabou muddler minnows, #6 or 8.  Don’t forget the Potomac River, either.  It’s within an hour of Baltimore, and great to float or wade.  

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Question:

  I NEED to take my wife to a place where she can catch some trout – or SOMETHING – before she decides that WE don’t like fishing any more.   She presents well, but never seems to catch a fish. I am very unfamiliar with Virginia streams, and don’t know enough to help her with selecting an appropriate fly,I often find the Va. streams, that are stocked, fished-out ( I really believe that people follow the stocking trucks. I have taken her to stocked streams in the Nat’l forest and NOONE caught a fish. The rainbows and browns up high are very timid and a wonderful challenge, but Lisa doesn’t need a challenge now – just a fish or two so she can remember what it is all about ( I like to catch fish now & then too and this plea is not really so selfless ) Any info that you might have on a reasonable beginner stream with stocked trout would be most appreciated. Thanks Scott

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Scott , have you tried the Jackson River? Its North of Covington, in the Hot spring area, there you will find good,I mean great Catch and release waters full of nice trout and others to catch. Your wife could easily catch enough to make her want to stay there forever!

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Scott,    Perhaps something from the bass family would do her nicely? My wife became interested when the Smallmouth started biting, she’s into trout now, but it was the bass that interested her first. It’s a tough time of year to start if she’s a beginner. The water’s low and the fish are skittish and spooky. You need a long leader and a delicate approach. I took my wife to the Jackson this past weekend, and shewent fishless. If you can, try the Potomac, the Shenandoah River or the James, tie a Yellow popper (not too big) onto a 3-4x tippet or a black Wolley Bugger #8 and let her at ‘em. She’ll catch a fish. Best time for beginners is March to July. Hope this helps! Keith in Waterford, VA

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 I NEED to take my wife to a place where she can catch some trout – or SOMETHING – before she decides that WE don’t like fishing any more. <<

Try another kind of fish. I recommend the Shenandoah. Give Manny Sainz a call at ‘the Hatch’ a bed and breakfast in Edinburg. He and his wife Bobby will give you a room, nice meal. hospitality, and a bunch of (non-trout) fish! Simon Hallett

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi, I am 10 years old have been fly fishing for 2 1/2 years. I would like to hear from other kids who are interested in fly fishing. Matt- North Carolina

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I am advisor to a fly fishing club at our middle school here in Bozeman.   I had our first meeting yesterday, and we had 18 students!  I did this the last two years and average 6-8 students.  I’d be interested to know if anyone else is doing anything like I am trying.  Would be interested in sharing information.  Dave Kumlien, Bozeman, MT

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(David Kumlien) writes: I am advisor to a fly fishing club at our middle school here in Bozeman. I had our first meeting yesterday, and we had 18 students!  I did this the last two years and average 6-8 students.  I’d be interested to know if anyone else is doing anything like I am trying.  Would be interested in sharing information.  Dave Kumlien, Bozeman, MT

What a great idea, Dave.  I, for one, would really like to hear of your experiences, and I may have a thought or two to throw in now and then.  By all means, keep posting! Kurt Steinbock

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Hi, I am 10 years old have been fly fishing for 2 1/2 years. I would like to hear from other kids who are interested in fly fishing. Matt- North Carolina

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