Question:

Take it for what you think its worth, and if the shoe fits wear it.shade tree means exactly that. In the south we have another term for it.but I won’t go there! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x<-Thanks for your input, but I don’t think most of us are real concerned with x<-what OSHA thinks.  We are more concerned with using reasonably safe methods x<-to actually get things done.  The tire shop that mounted my new 10 ply tires x<-shortly before the example I cited is forced to use  compressed air in their x<-shop, instantaneously released from a portable container to do the same x<-thing!  It would have been impossible to do in the tight quarters the wheel x<-was in, and the wheel could not be removed.  If a REPUTABLE tire shop made x<-the house call, they would have done the same thing, at least in the real x<-world!  If you haven’t tried it…don’t knock it.  I don’t like the term x<-"Shade tree types" …it suggests inferior! x<-George Willer x<- x<- Really? Most reputable tire shops weather its a  general tires or huge x<- equipment tires usually have the required equipment to do the job. I x<- don’t really think OSHA or their insurance companies would like them x<- using ether or anything else like that for inflating or seating tires x<- on a rim. Backyard or shade tree types may use the flamable gas method x<- not reputable ones. x<- x<- x<- x<- x<- x<- x<-ether is the method used at truck garages. x<- x<- x<- x<— x<- x<-Steve Spence x<- x<-Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: x<- x<-http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm x<- x<- x<- x<-Renewable Energy Pages – http://www.webconx.com x<- x<-Palm Pilot Pages – http://www.webconx.com/palm x<- x<-X10 Home Automation – http://www.webconx.com/x10 x<- x<-(212) 894-3704 x3154 – voicemail/fax x<- x<-We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, x<- x<-we borrow it from our children. x<- x<- Opinions are strictly those of my wife….I have had no input whatsoever. x<- Remove capital A from chipmkr for correct email address x<- Regards x<- Foxeye x<-

Opinions are strictly those of my wife….I have had no input whatsoever. Remove capital A from chipmkr for correct email address Regards Foxeye

Response:

Thanks for your input, but I don’t think most of us are real concerned with what OSHA thinks.  We are more concerned with using reasonably safe methods to actually get things done.  The tire shop that mounted my new 10 ply tires shortly before the example I cited is forced to use  compressed air in their shop, instantaneously released from a portable container to do the same thing!  It would have been impossible to do in the tight quarters the wheel was in, and the wheel could not be removed.  If a REPUTABLE tire shop made the house call, they would have done the same thing, at least in the real world!  If you haven’t tried it…don’t knock it.  I don’t like the term "Shade tree types" …it suggests inferior! George Willer

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Really? Most reputable tire shops weather its a  general tires or huge equipment tires usually have the required equipment to do the job. I don’t really think OSHA or their insurance companies would like them using ether or anything else like that for inflating or seating tires on a rim. Backyard or shade tree types may use the flamable gas method not reputable ones. x<-ether is the method used at truck garages. x<- x<— x<-Steve Spence x<-Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: x<-http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm x<- x<-Renewable Energy Pages – http://www.webconx.com x<-Palm Pilot Pages – http://www.webconx.com/palm x<-X10 Home Automation – http://www.webconx.com/x10 x<-(212) 894-3704 x3154 – voicemail/fax x<-We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, x<-we borrow it from our children. Opinions are strictly those of my wife….I have had no input whatsoever. Remove capital A from chipmkr for correct email address Regards Foxeye

Response:

guess I wasn’t working for reputable types…… — Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages – http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages – http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation – http://www.webconx.com/x10 (212) 894-3704 x3154 – voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Really? Most reputable tire shops weather its a  general tires or huge equipment tires usually have the required equipment to do the job. I don’t really think OSHA or their insurance companies would like them using ether or anything else like that for inflating or seating tires on a rim. Backyard or shade tree types may use the flamable gas method not reputable ones. x<-ether is the method used at truck garages. x<- x<— x<-Steve Spence x<-Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: x<-http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm x<- x<-Renewable Energy Pages – http://www.webconx.com x<-Palm Pilot Pages – http://www.webconx.com/palm x<-X10 Home Automation – http://www.webconx.com/x10 x<-(212) 894-3704 x3154 – voicemail/fax x<-We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, x<-we borrow it from our children. Opinions are strictly those of my wife….I have had no input whatsoever. Remove capital A from chipmkr for correct email address Regards Foxeye

Response:

Really? Most reputable tire shops weather its a  general tires or huge equipment tires usually have the required equipment to do the job. I don’t really think OSHA or their insurance companies would like them using ether or anything else like that for inflating or seating tires on a rim. Backyard or shade tree types may use the flamable gas method not reputable ones. x<-ether is the method used at truck garages. x<- x<— x<-Steve Spence x<-Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: x<-http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm x<- x<-Renewable Energy Pages – http://www.webconx.com x<-Palm Pilot Pages – http://www.webconx.com/palm x<-X10 Home Automation – http://www.webconx.com/x10 x<-(212) 894-3704 x3154 – voicemail/fax x<-We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, x<-we borrow it from our children.

Opinions are strictly those of my wife….I have had no input whatsoever. Remove capital A from chipmkr for correct email address Regards Foxeye

Response:

ether is the method used at truck garages. — Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages – http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages – http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation – http://www.webconx.com/x10 (212) 894-3704 x3154 – voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. —

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The lighter fluid method can be harmful to a tire, as any petroleum product can be hard on the rubber.  A better thing to use, if necessary, IMHO, is ether starting fluid.  It is very effective, and need not be dangerous. It will be most scary to those who haven’t done it, little kids, and old ladies.  The band clamp method works fine on bias tires, but is of little use on radial tires, especially if they are distorted from storage.  I have used the ether method on 10 ply trailer tires that have sat long enough to have taken a permanent set…and with the weight of a dozer on the trailer. Nearly impossible by any other method.  I used it the first time in desperation (the trailer was blocked in and couldn’t be moved), but now I know how well it works, I don’t hesitate.  The one possible drawback…some unburned ether may remain in the tire to be a hazard to the next person to work on the tire, if they don’t know it’s there. On those little cart tires…just re-inflate them.  They’ll re-seat just fine.  No big deal.  Live and learn. George Willer OK, I’m an idiot. In my haste to move the last of my stone dust out of the way of the impending rain, I overloaded my tractor cart.  Nothing serious, but both tires came off the rims and are now flat. There doesn’t seem to be any damage to either tire, but I’m not too sure of how to seat them back on the rims and reinflate them. If I just inflate, will they just "pop" back on? Do I need a technique? Any BTDT’s appreciated. I have seen a very dangerous method to do this in an emergency. Squirt lighter fluid inside, around the rim and light. Very dangerous, but I have seen it work. I’d never do it. The belt method is the one I use, with a high volume compressor. — RANDOM THOUGHT FEED

Question:

Hi. Just wondering if anyone out there has fished the tailwaters of the Smith Lake Dam in Cullman, Alabama in the last few days. I’m new to flyfishing and was wondering what the trout are feeding on these hot days of summer. If anyone has fished this water lately, please email me and give me an idea of what and how to fish there. I’ve asked the locals, but they are very closed mouth about it. If anyone has any suggestions on what to try, I’d appreciate that also. Thanks, Richard Hollingsworth

Response:

… If anyone has any suggestions on what to try, I’d appreciate that also.

Have never fished below Smith Lake Dam but every tailwater fishery I’ve ever heard of has a population of sow bugs. You might want to try sculpins too. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

John I know people that have had the factory firsts, sure you want a second? ND#1   ( do you have a garden? ) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear John L." We have factory second 2 piece fly rods for UNDER $300 John. They have some sort of defect in them such as glue lines or a gap in the wraps, a slightly off reel seat, etc. These fly rods will last anyone a life time and will cast as good as any $7,000 bamboo fly rod. Just sign up and let us know what you have in mind. Or, if you’re not particular on the length or fly line weight, let us know. — MrG/American Sportsman http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

Response:

I have some of the first bamboo flyrods that George built and they are catching plenty of fish still, and the cast beautifuly.. … I think you need to spend more time fishing and less time time in your garden. — Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/free_video/

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – John I know people that have had the factory firsts, sure you want a second? ND#1   ( do you have a garden? ) Dear John L." We have factory second 2 piece fly rods for UNDER $300 John. They have some sort of defect in them such as glue lines or a gap in the wraps, a slightly off reel seat, etc. These fly rods will last anyone a life time and will cast as good as any $7,000 bamboo fly rod. Just sign up and let us know what you have in mind. Or, if you’re not particular on the length or fly line weight, let us know. — MrG/American Sportsman http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

Response:

I have some of the first bamboo flyrods that George built and they are catching plenty of fish still, and the cast beautifuly.. …

Lemme guess.  You got half a dozen or so #12s and a couplea #11s, right?

Response:

OH MY chris smith porter maine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear John L." We have factory second 2 piece fly rods for UNDER $300 John. They have some sort of defect in them such as glue lines or a gap in the wraps, a slightly off reel seat, etc. These fly rods will last anyone a life time and will cast as good as any $7,000 bamboo fly rod. Just sign up and let us know what you have in mind. Or, if you’re not particular on the length or fly line weight, let us know.

Response:

Dear John L." We have factory second 2 piece fly rods for UNDER $300 John. They have some sort of defect in them such as glue lines or a gap in the wraps, a slightly off reel seat, etc. These fly rods will last anyone a life time and will cast as good as any $7,000 bamboo fly rod. Just sign up and let us know what you have in mind. Or, if you’re not particular on the length or fly line weight, let us know. — MrG/American Sportsman http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjun00.html  LATEST BAMBOO FACTS "the saga continues"

Response:

Question:

Don’t piss off a lawyer true….make a pile of at least 4 or 5 of them first. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

        et tu, brute? wayno, learning to lighten up – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

You guys have more patience with assholes than I have.  I simply filter out his name from the news group.  Then the only problem I have is the band width you give him.  If it continues I filter out the "subject.name".

Yup – that’s my next step. I’d hoped that it wouldn’t come to that – as we all know how tangential threads run around here – and I might miss something good by flushing by threads ;^) Perhaps we should have a standard message that explains the rules of etiquette to them.  If they don’t take that advice then a moderator will simply write a message to filter that persons name.  All who agree will filter it and all who disagree won’t.  The moderator will add the "subject name" of any future posts which deal with the asshole and send it out for filtering

Nope – that won’t fly. First, who wants to be "moderator" of this group? (not me, that’s fer damn sure) Second, it’d be a thankless job – fraught with second-guessing (surely a "damned if you do/damned if you don’t" function). Beyond that, the group is full of people that are using various newsreaders that don’t provide filtering (includes most of MickeySoft’s newsreaders, older versions of Netscape, and whatever it is that AOL forces on its clients). The easiest thing to do for those who use readers sans filtering abilities is to manually SET MODE IGNORE. /daytripper

Response:

  The olive branch is certainly appreciated.  If you read my post to Mr. G and Mr. Connor, I think you’ll see that I recognize the same phenomenon you do.  Furthermore, one of the problems of electronic communications is that participants are not able to actually see how one speaks his words, unable to interpret the non-verbal communication that accompanies pure language. If I swaggered into your imaginary bar and said (to use your words) "what a bunch of silly children!  i came here expecting something different, something that suits *me*; but you drivel-spouting morons aren’t what i was looking for!  and besides, you don’t wear clothes that are universally neat and tidy!" if I said that with a big old grin and a wink, and then bought you all a drink, the reaction might likely be different.     I would like to continue to point out, however, that this is not and never has been about suiting *me* or my *ideal*.   Honestly, that’s rather overstating the case–but I’m beginning to understand that you’re a lawyer, and so I’ll forgive the tendency.  I have been listening in here for a few weeks, and when I’ve had something to add, I’ve added it.  You guys haven’t noticed for whatever reasons.  I would not have peeped my peep, were it not for the fact that I saw others identifying the same gripe.  It struck me as a legitimate gripe.  On my server, this is my only option for a fly-fishing newsgroup.  Seemed reasonable that folks could try to be reasonable in terms of wasting each other’s time.  As I said to Mr. Connor yesterday, the "dog" point of attack suddenly shifted from "don’t read the posts you don’t like" to "geez, the threads are sometimes interwoven, deal with it," which, I mean, you’re a lawyer, you’ve seen this before–doesn’t a sudden switch in logic generally indicate the implicit recognition that the frontline logic isn’t holding up so well?  And the things is, the problem is one that’s really easy to fix.   Really simple.  You know it, I know it, everybody knows it.  So why not fix it?     I know you know what I mean.  Too, I recognize that Mr. George doesn’t control you folks.  It never occured to me otherwise.  I think his was merely an effort similar to yours, using a different tactic, and one that was equally appreciated.   So … peace.   But, please, please, please try to label off-subject posts more clearly.

Response:

<<I suspect that the history books, like most Americans, are going to focus on the success and/or failures he had in meeting his agenda. I am still waiting for  one of his promises from 1992 – a middle-class tax cut..  In the last SOU he promises everyone something.  Typical Clinton. Dave LaCourse

Response:

rw wrote I suspect that the history books, like most Americans, are going to focus on the success and/or failures he had in meeting his agenda. If a guy like Nixon, who did quit in disgrace, can now be viewed warmly for his statesmanship one can only guess at how kind history will be to a man who makes the Teflon Don look like a dirty old fryin pan. Right. History sure remembers those Republicans who failed to convict Johnson warmly. As if!

Yes.  History remembers what people did with their political power.  My point exactly.  Thanks. The Republicans you refer to are remembered for their vindictiveness.  They used their power to punish the South and thereby extended regional enmity and all of its ramifications far beyond the end of the war.  So history doesn’t paint them very kindly.  (I am sure some of you boys out there from the South can wax rhapsodically on this subject for hours!) How ironic that the current crop of Republicans is behaving so like their forebears and likely will reap the same reward from history.  Hmmm…I don’t know the makeup of the Repubs that are really driving this whole thing to the wall, but aren’t they Southern Republicans??? …. Doubly ironic if true. Not only that.  When all is said and done, history is once again going to laud the genius of the "Framers" who had the foresight to require a 2/3 vote for removing the president from office, thereby insuring that a vindictive ‘Minority’ party, that temporarily enjoys a majority in the congress, could not overturn the will of the people. Man.  If your a Repub, that’s gotta hurt. —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

DavPLaC wrote <<Unless the Republican Guard Taliban Party scores on their Hail Mary pass to the witnesses, which is VERY unlikely, Clinton is home free. I would rather commit political suicide ( Repub) than commit moral suicide (Dem).  Clinton will never be "free".  Whether you like it or not, he is *IN* the history books as being impeached, shamed, with more than 85% of the people saying they don’t trust him or believe him.  If a sitting president could have been indicted, he would have been, found guilty,  and gone to jail for 18 months like others guilty of perjury.  I voted for the bastard in ‘92 — shame on me!

I suspect that the history books, like most Americans, are going to focus on the success and/or failures he had in meeting his agenda. If a guy like Nixon, who did quit in disgrace, can now be viewed warmly for his statesmanship one can only guess at how kind history will be to a man who makes the Teflon Don look like a dirty old fryin pan. —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

<<Unless the Republican Guard Taliban Party scores on their Hail Mary pass to the witnesses, which is VERY unlikely, Clinton is home free. I would rather commit political suicide ( Repub) than commit moral suicide (Dem).  Clinton will never be "free".  Whether you like it or not, he is *IN* the history books as being impeached, shamed, with more than 85% of the people saying they don’t trust him or believe him.  If a sitting president could have been indicted, he would have been, found guilty,  and gone to jail for 18 months like others guilty of perjury.  I voted for the bastard in ‘92 — shame on me!

Response:

I suspect that the history books, like most Americans, are going to focus on the success and/or failures he had in meeting his agenda. If a guy like Nixon, who did quit in disgrace, can now be viewed warmly for his statesmanship one can only guess at how kind history will be to a man who makes the Teflon Don look like a dirty old fryin pan.

Right. History sure remembers those Republicans who failed to convict Johnson warmly. As if! — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

<<Unless the Republican Guard Taliban Party scores on their Hail Mary pass to the witnesses, which is VERY unlikely, Clinton is home free. I would rather commit political suicide ( Repub) than commit moral suicide (Dem).  Clinton will never be "free".  Whether you like it or not, he is *IN* the history books as being impeached, shamed, with more than 85% of the people saying they don’t trust him or believe him.  If a sitting president could have been indicted, he would have been, found guilty,  and gone to jail for 18 months like others guilty of perjury.  I voted for the bastard in ‘92 — shame on me!

Would you care to place a bet on whether Clinton will be convicted of one of these "crimes" after he leaves office? — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Mr. G wrote I notice of late that you have been promoting the need for one, and in a way that implies you have one.  I’m sure you do, I just hope it’s in full gear when the Senate decides not to remove you know who from office. By the way, I bit on your $10 bet that the Senate would remove him (IOW, my money is on the Senate NOT removing him)

Sounds like a solid bet to me. Unless the Republican Guard Taliban Party scores on their Hail Mary pass to the witnesses, which is VERY unlikely, Clinton is home free. The voters will remember, just like they remembered about the Republicans shutting down the government. The Democrats will make sure they remember. There will be hell to pay. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I for one vote NO for a moderator. Who do you have deciding what’s right and what’s wrong. Conservative Republican Congressmen from southern states?

Oops. That should be "conservative" in quotes, because they very clearly have no interest whatsoever in conservation, especially when it conflicts with the profits of their fat-cat special-interest sugar-daddy campaign contributors. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I for one vote NO for a moderator. Who do you have deciding what’s right and what’s wrong.

Conservative Republican Congressmen from southern states? — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Mr. G wrote

I notice of late that you have been promoting the need for one, and in a way that implies you have one.  I’m sure you do, I just hope it’s in full gear when the Senate decides not to remove you know who from office. By the way, I bit on your $10 bet that the Senate would remove him (IOW, my money is on the Senate NOT removing him) ….and double twitch   —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

I for one vote NO for a moderator. Who do you have deciding what’s right and what’s wrong. I hate censorship in all of it’s nasty forms. An occasional commercial spam or a demo spam is ok with me, it provides a few chuckles. If some of you roffians want a moderated group, simply go start one. ROFF is the land of the FREE. –Wataugan Walt

<snippered

Response:

0] : You guys have more patience with assholes than I have.  I simply filter out : his name from the news group.  Then the only problem I have is the band : width you give him.  If it continues I filter out the "subject.name". : Perhaps we should have a standard message that explains the rules of : etiquette to them.  If they don’t take that advice then a moderator will : simply write a message to filter that persons name.  All who agree will : filter it and all who disagree won’t.  The moderator will add the "subject : name" of any future posts which deal with the asshole and send it out for : filtering : Ernie Harrison.. Hey Ernie a standard message has been floating around for awhile. This is it below. With a little editing in could be made ROFF specific  Dear   [ ] sir      [ ] clueless one  [ ] twit          [ ] great man on campus   [ ] madam    [ ] dweeb         [ ] twerp         [ ] comrade   [ ] Elvis    [ ] moon beam     [ ] boor          [ ] Obergruppenfuehrer   [ ] citoyen  [ ] Geek          [ ] grad student  [ ] cur  You are being gently flamed because.   [ ] you continued a boring useless stupid thread   [ ] you repeatedly posted to the same thread that you just posted to   [ ] you repeatedly initiated incoherent, flaky, and mindless threads   [ ] you posted a piece riddled with profanities   [ ] you advocated Net censorship   [ ] you SCREAMED! (used all caps)   [ ] you posted some sort of crap that doesn’t belong in this group   [ ] you posted the inanely stupid ‘Make Money Fast’ article   [ ] you threatened others with physical harm   [ ] you made a bigoted statement(s)   [ ] you repeatedly assumed unwarranted moral or intellectual superiority   [ ] you are under the misapprehension that this group is your preserve   [ ] you repeatedly shown lack of humor   [ ] you are apparently under compulsion to post to every threat   [ ] you are posting an anonymous attack Get a life. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

Response:

 The olive branch is certainly appreciated.  If you read my post to Mr. G and Mr. Connor, I think you’ll see that I recognize the same phenomenon you do.  Furthermore, one of the problems of electronic communications is that participants are not able to actually see how one speaks his words, unable to interpret the non-verbal communication that accompanies pure language.

        i am in complete accord with your assessment of some of the problems of this unique sort of communication. If I swaggered into your imaginary bar and said (to use your words) "what a bunch of silly children!  i came here expecting something different, something that suits *me*; but you drivel-spouting morons aren’t what i was looking for!  and besides, you don’t wear clothes that are universally neat and tidy!" if I said that with a big old grin and a wink, and then bought you all a drink, the reaction might likely be different.

        that’s a close call, jeff.  the key is having come to *know* you.  I would like to continue to point out, however, that this is not and never has been about suiting *me* or my *ideal*.   Honestly, that’s rather overstating the case–but I’m beginning to understand that you’re a lawyer, and so I’ll forgive the tendency.

        so far, i have noted two posts that clearly cheered your approach and content.  but i grant you that there may be others out there who are frustrated by the inability of some of us to remain so deadly serious, and boring.  I have been listening in here for a few weeks, and when I’ve had something to add, I’ve added it.  You guys haven’t noticed for whatever reasons.

probably because many of us just don’t want to confine our discussions to the latest method of double hauling, or our last trip to christmas island, or what is the hot setup for flats shirts, or how to fish a ten foot wide stream.  or, we just weren’t interested.  not saying that those were the subject matter of your posts, of course; there i go, "overstating my case" again.   I would not have peeped my peep, were it not for the fact that I saw others identifying the same gripe.  It struck me as a legitimate gripe.  On my server, this is my only option for a fly-fishing newsgroup.  Seemed reasonable that folks could try to be reasonable in terms of wasting each other’s time.  As I said to Mr. Connor yesterday, the "dog" point of attack suddenly shifted from "don’t read the posts you don’t like" to "geez, the threads are sometimes interwoven, deal with it," which, I mean, you’re a lawyer, you’ve seen this before–doesn’t a sudden switch in logic generally indicate the implicit recognition that the frontline logic isn’t holding up so well?

not relevant.  this isn’t a problem in logic, or a legal argument.  it is about manners, and expectations.  And the things is, the problem is one that’s really easy to fix.   Really simple.  You know it, I know it, everybody knows it.  So why not fix it?    I know you know what I mean.  Too, I recognize that Mr. George doesn’t control you folks.  It never occured to me otherwise.  I think his was merely an effort similar to yours, using a different tactic, and one that was equally appreciated.   So … peace.   But, please, please, please try to label off-subject posts more clearly.

i have already begun to function in that fashion.  you may find many others more difficult to persuade.  but i am pleased that you understand that we welcome anyone as a participant in this group.  you will be treated very close to the way in which you treat others.  many folks who were wary about me, and me about them, six months ago, are now close cyberfriends.  be patient.  good to have you,. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

You guys have more patience with assholes than I have.  I simply filter out his name from the news group.

        i like the "find his mommy" approach.  this may be a job for (unspeakable name). wayno the deadly serious – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Just as a point of clarification, Microsoft’s Outlook Express does provide filtering…it’s just hard to find. Unfortunately, I’ve been forced to find the facility lately. Check under Tools on the menu…select Newsgroup Filters… Hope this helps! –Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys have more patience with assholes than I have.  I simply filter out his name from the news group.  Then the only problem I have is the band width you give him.  If it continues I filter out the "subject.name". Yup – that’s my next step. I’d hoped that it wouldn’t come to that – as we all know how tangential threads run around here – and I might miss something good by flushing by threads ;^) Perhaps we should have a standard message that explains the rules of etiquette to them.  If they don’t take that advice then a moderator will simply write a message to filter that persons name.  All who agree will filter it and all who disagree won’t.  The moderator will add the "subject name" of any future posts which deal with the asshole and send it out for filtering Nope – that won’t fly. First, who wants to be "moderator" of this group? (not me, that’s fer damn sure) Second, it’d be a thankless job – fraught with second-guessing (surely a "damned if you do/damned if you don’t" function). Beyond that, the group is full of people that are using various newsreaders that don’t provide filtering (includes most of MickeySoft’s newsreaders, older versions of Netscape, and whatever it is that AOL forces on its clients). The easiest thing to do for those who use readers sans filtering abilities is to manually SET MODE IGNORE. /daytripper

Response:

 I know you know what I mean.  Too, I recognize that Mr. George doesn’t control you folks.  It never occured to me otherwise.  I think his was merely an effort similar to yours, using a different tactic, and one that was equally appreciated.   So … peace.   But, please, please, please try to label off-subject posts more clearly. i have already begun to function in that fashion.  you may find many others more difficult to persuade.  but i am pleased that you understand that we welcome anyone as a participant in this group.  you will be treated very close to the way in which you treat others.  many folks who were wary about me, and me about them, six months ago, are now close cyberfriends.  be patient.  good to have you,. wayno

DUCK! —

Question:

I’ve been catching some small Peacock Bass in South Florida with spun deer hair poper type of flies. I’ve seen some really big Peacock Bass hitting the top of the water, but the won’t take the small poppers. Anyone know of any paterns to attract these bigger fish? Thanks Ken Baker

Response:

I’ve been catching some small Peacock Bass in South Florida with spun deer hair poper type of flies. I’ve seen some really big Peacock Bass hitting the top of the water, but the won’t take the small poppers. Anyone know of any paterns to attract these bigger fish?

The book `South Florida’s Peacock Bass’ by Carlos Hidalgo tells you a great deals about catching these great fish on flies. Go to my Website (URL below) and follow the link "South Florida’s Peacock Bass (Book by Carlos Hidalgo)". Ron Looi  ~       ~~    ~   ~   ..|..    ~           __|__                  ~ ~       /             o  o     o  o         ~     ~~  /~~   |   X    |                                /*_ .//     |||. /_  ||| ||..               ^ . ~//_^ / . -/ / – Boeing Fishin’ in Seattle!                   <  <, "www.geocities.com/RainForest/2730/"      <<

Response:

With a bassing guide I trained to guide a flyfisherman, I’ve fished the canals of Miami for the last 6 years and haven’t gotten a peacock over 4-5 pounds.  Maybe I’ve fished a total of 25-30 days for peacocks, so I’m no expert and take my thoughts about fishing for a grreat warmwater game fish. They are easiest to get on the surface when they are schooling.  A popper does the trick here.  Otherwise, in fishing along the edges, any popper of average size, but moved quickly without stopping (as one may do for largemouth) gets fish. Fishing just below the surface, a smartly moved clouser minnow (size 6-2) in chartreuse/white, chartreuse/yellow…anything with chartreuse does well.  Fishing the cm deeperhas the potential of getting a big fish. The easiest way to catch peacocks is when they are bedding.  Just drop the fly (easier said than when considering the way peacocks like to hide their beds in impossible places) on to the bed and the fish, both male and female, will continue to pick up the fly until either you catch him, or you say ‘enough is enough, you win…’ This method certainly isn’t the most most sporting.  Good luck. Adam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been catching some small Peacock Bass in South Florida with spun deer hair poper type of flies. I’ve seen some really big Peacock Bass hitting the top of the water, but the won’t take the small poppers. Anyone know of any paterns to attract these bigger fish? Thanks Ken Baker

Response:

I’ve been catching some small Peacock Bass in South Florida with spun deer hair poper type of flies. I’ve seen some really big Peacock Bass hitting the top of the water, but the won’t take the small poppers. Anyone know of any paterns to attract these bigger fish? The book `South Florida’s Peacock Bass’ by Carlos Hidalgo tells you a great deals about catching these great fish on flies. Go to my Website (URL below) and follow the link "South Florida’s Peacock Bass (Book by Carlos Hidalgo)".

Carlos also has an article on flys for peacocks in the July Florida Sportsman Magazine.

Response:

Question:

Ok, this is really *our* impression of Cancun.  I am not trying to provoke any major responses to this, as it is just an opinion from our recent trip there. First of all I did actually like the beaches on/near the Omni Cancun hotel. The beaches were very nice, sand very white and soft and not hot. The water is absolutely beautiful with vivid colors of light-dark blue. Beautiful! If you are a serious beach bum you will love this aspect of Cancun.  I hear that you really need to check out the property you are interested in because some of the beaches have been washed out from past storms and the brochures do not mention that tiny fact.  Most are ok though. The second nice thing is that the bus system is GREAT.  Only 3 pesos (about 20 cents).  The buses run 24 hours a day and every 4-5 minutes.  Easy to use, and much cheaper than cabs which run a minimum of 30 pesos (3$). Now the things I didn’t like: The shop keepers at the various flea markets have very very few bargain items.  Most of the items we were interested in were expensive and the shop keepers really really tried to make you feel bad for being a "wealthy" American who "gets vacations". All in all I can get REAL bargains in Nuevo Larado (Texas/Mexico border city).  If you have LOTS of money and don’t mind turning loose of it then you might feel differently than I/we did. In general the city and resort area had a bad "smell" most places we went. There was an occasional stench that smelled like sewar water or something to that effect. This was noticed most everywhere and we weren’t really sure where it was coming from.  On those lines, when you’re traveling down a street, if you look closely you’ll notice off to the side of the roads there appears to be garbage, rubbish and various other "trash" items that are usually behind shrubs, etc… It’s as if they decided to build a road and "scraped" all the surrounding rubbish off to the side of the road and tried to hide it with shrubs. Expensive, expensive, expensive.  There are no places you can go to have fun or eat or drink without paying a premium price.  And if your hotel or club offers "happy hours" it is for them not for you.  Happy hours at our hotel and some bars are no value.  Our drinks had very little liquor in them and the prices were still high even for watered down drinks.  The only exception is beer, they haven’t found a way to water that down (I think). We also paid $10. (USD) to get into a popular disco/dance club called Christine’s.  It was nice but the drinks were expensive and small and the bar was nice but not as nice as many of our US bars.  Personally I wouldn’t recommend it for the cover alone. Last but not least is all the begging that goes on there.  The vendors are so aggressive that you can’t do or go anywhere without feeling like you’re being accosted.  Small children are just as bad as the grown up folks except a lot (not all) of the vendors will try to intimidate you into buying and if you offer them a price they act insulted and when you leave their shop they start insulting you (Coral Negro flea market). This goes on pretty much everywhere and after the first day it’s all one can do just to go somewhere without being accosted over and over. PS: We are from Texas (good mexican food) and in our opinion we did not like any of the "mexican" food there.  We ate at Senor Frogs as well and the meal was just "so-so".  All of the restaurants did not have spicy mexican food and it was pretty much bland.  I cannot recommend any place except Pat O’ Brians (Great nachos and bbq sandwich). If anyone wants further info please feel free to email me directly at:

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok, this is really *our* impression of Cancun.  I am not trying to provoke any major responses to this, as it is just an opinion from our recent trip there. First of all I did actually like the beaches on/near the Omni Cancun hotel. The beaches were very nice, sand very white and soft and not hot. The water is absolutely beautiful with vivid colors of light-dark blue. Beautiful! If you are a serious beach bum you will love this aspect of Cancun.  I hear that you really need to check out the property you are interested in because some of the beaches have been washed out from past storms and the brochures do not mention that tiny fact.  Most are ok though. The second nice thing is that the bus system is GREAT.  Only 3 pesos (about 20 cents).  The buses run 24 hours a day and every 4-5 minutes.  Easy to use, and much cheaper than cabs which run a minimum of 30 pesos (3$). Now the things I didn’t like: The shop keepers at the various flea markets have very very few bargain items.  Most of the items we were interested in were expensive and the shop keepers really really tried to make you feel bad for being a "wealthy" American who "gets vacations". All in all I can get REAL bargains in Nuevo Larado (Texas/Mexico border city).  If you have LOTS of money and don’t mind turning loose of it then you might feel differently than I/we did. In general the city and resort area had a bad "smell" most places we went. There was an occasional stench that smelled like sewar water or something to that effect. This was noticed most everywhere and we weren’t really sure where it was coming from.  On those lines, when you’re traveling down a street, if you look closely you’ll notice off to the side of the roads there appears to be garbage, rubbish and various other "trash" items that are usually behind shrubs, etc… It’s as if they decided to build a road and "scraped" all the surrounding rubbish off to the side of the road and tried to hide it with shrubs. Expensive, expensive, expensive.  There are no places you can go to have fun or eat or drink without paying a premium price.  And if your hotel or club offers "happy hours" it is for them not for you.  Happy hours at our hotel and some bars are no value.  Our drinks had very little liquor in them and the prices were still high even for watered down drinks.  The only exception is beer, they haven’t found a way to water that down (I think). We also paid $10. (USD) to get into a popular disco/dance club called Christine’s.  It was nice but the drinks were expensive and small and the bar was nice but not as nice as many of our US bars.  Personally I wouldn’t recommend it for the cover alone. Last but not least is all the begging that goes on there.  The vendors are so aggressive that you can’t do or go anywhere without feeling like you’re being accosted.  Small children are just as bad as the grown up folks except a lot (not all) of the vendors will try to intimidate you into buying and if you offer them a price they act insulted and when you leave their shop they start insulting you (Coral Negro flea market). This goes on pretty much everywhere and after the first day it’s all one can do just to go somewhere without being accosted over and over. PS: We are from Texas (good mexican food) and in our opinion we did not like any of the "mexican" food there.  We ate at Senor Frogs as well and the meal was just "so-so".  All of the restaurants did not have spicy mexican food and it was pretty much bland.  I cannot recommend any place except Pat O’ Brians (Great nachos and bbq sandwich). If anyone wants further info please feel free to email me directly at:

I got the same impression last time we were there in ‘92.  The only thing I would have to add was the time share terrorists.  We would be walking along enjoying the warm breeze when out of nowhere some guy would come flying out of a moving vehicle and they wouldn’t leave you alone.  Finally we said we were leaving that afternoon and they would give up.  We were there in 1983 and loved it, so we were extremely disappointed when we went back and that will be our last trip to Cancun.  We ventured a little further south to Playa del Carmen and loved it there.  My fear now to go back is that the same thing is happening there as happened in Cancun. Just my 2 cents. Diane

Response:

– thanks to spam bots, my address is despammed, if you are a real person, you should be able to figure it out. This part of the post I can’t let go.  I am also from Texas originally and what you are used to is NOT mexican food.  It is Tex-Mex.  You can not compare mexican food to what you are used to. Mexican food is not spicy. Mexican food rarely contains beef, the land doesn’t support beef well. Chicken, fish, and goats are the mainstay and it varys by the region.  By the way, I like both Tex-mex and mexican food.  I can’t say anything about the food in cancun as I have not been there, but don’t base your comparisons to your local cuisine, its comparing apples and oranges.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – PS: We are from Texas (good mexican food) and in our opinion we did not like any of the "mexican" food there.  We ate at Senor Frogs as well and the meal was just "so-so".  All of the restaurants did not have spicy mexican food and it was pretty much bland.  I cannot recommend any place except Pat O’ Brians (Great nachos and bbq sandwich). If anyone wants further info please feel free to email me directly at:

Response:

Don, Being a native Texan I also know the difference between Mexican food and Tex-Mex food.  I never meant to imply they were one in the same HOWEVER there is a difference in what I expected.  I expected Mexican food (I was in Mexico) with a Yucatan flair… things wrapped/cooked in banana leaves, pescado (fish) dishes, etc…  The food we ate down in Cancun were typically recommended highly by the various hotels and some guidebooks but they always turned out to be bad Mexican food without any particular nuance of the region they were supposed to represent (Yucatan).  My comments about spicy wasn’t meaning HOT, I just meant that I preferred my food with some form of taste to it.  The food from Cancun (for the mostpart) was tasteless and appeared to be a poor copy of Tex-Mex (or that’s the way it looked to us). PS: I’ve already received several direct emails agreeing with me so I know that I’m not crazy M. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — thanks to spam bots, my address is despammed, if you are a real person, you should be able to figure it out. This part of the post I can’t let go.  I am also from Texas originally and what you are used to is NOT mexican food.  It is Tex-Mex.  You can not compare mexican food to what you are used to. Mexican food is not spicy. Mexican food rarely contains beef, the land doesn’t support beef well. Chicken, fish, and goats are the mainstay and it varys by the region.  By the way, I like both Tex-mex and mexican food.  I can’t say anything about the food in cancun as I have not been there, but don’t base your comparisons to your local cuisine, its comparing apples and oranges. PS: We are from Texas (good mexican food) and in our opinion we did not like any of the "mexican" food there.  We ate at Senor Frogs as well and the meal was just "so-so".  All of the restaurants did not have spicy mexican food and it was pretty much bland.  I cannot recommend any place except Pat O’ Brians (Great nachos and bbq sandwich). If anyone wants further info please feel free to email me directly at:

Response:

sorry you feel that way. i’m heading back for my 8th trip end of Jan. i go mostly for the first part of your trip. and because i Love the hotel i stay at (Fiesta American Coral Beach) since it is a mega resort you have to do some searching to find good value. and yes there are some Yucatan restaurants, but mostly it is tex-mex. tim

Response:

I’ve been to Cancun twice. I enjoyed both of my visits. I stayed at the Blue Bay Club and Marina, which is an all-inclusive hotel. Personally, I prefer all-inclusive hotels because you don’t have to carry cash when you’re at the hotel and you can eat and drink as much as you want without worrying about the bill! Also, the food at the hotel was great. They had Mexican options at every meal! The different salsas were fabulous! The hotel staff was friendly and always entertaining. The hotel also had a bus that would take us into town at night to the discos. The discos were pricey but not over the top. I agree that the flea markets were outrageous! I couldn’t take more that 5 minutes they were so rude! I don’t mind bargaining but when they start yelling at you or chasing you, that’s when I draw the line. Luckily, the hotel had theme night and one of which was Mexican. Kiosks were set up and local wares were sold in the main lobby at very reasonable prices. I really had a great time in Cancun and would probably go back. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – sorry you feel that way. i’m heading back for my 8th trip end of Jan. i go mostly for the first part of your trip. and because i Love the hotel i stay at (Fiesta American Coral Beach) since it is a mega resort you have to do some searching to find good value. and yes there are some Yucatan restaurants, but mostly it is tex-mex. tim

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don, Being a native Texan I also know the difference between Mexican food and Tex-Mex food.  I never meant to imply they were one in the same HOWEVER there is a difference in what I expected.  I expected Mexican food (I was in Mexico) with a Yucatan flair… things wrapped/cooked in banana leaves, pescado (fish) dishes, etc…  <snip I am also from Texas originally and what you are used to is NOT mexican food.  It is Tex-Mex.   PS: We are from Texas (good mexican food) and in our opinion we did not like any of the "mexican" food there.  We ate at Senor Frogs as well and the meal was just "so-so".  All of the restaurants did not have spicy mexican food and it was pretty much bland.  I cannot recommend any place except Pat O’ Brians (Great nachos and bbq sandwich).

I think you’re both missing an important point: Cancun may be in Mexico, but there is no Mexico in Cancun.  It is a Disneyfied version of what the Mexican tourist board thinks tourists want; obviously, they thought correctly.  If Cancun is the only place you’ve ever visited, you have not seen Mexico.  I’ve had to fly to/from there to get to other destinations, and had never had the "opportunity" to spend the night until this past summer (because of an early a.m. flight); I was with a teenaged cousin who had been a good sport about eating real Mexican–after years of Taco Bell–at our other destinations, so let him choose where he wanted to eat dinner in Cancun.  Yeesh, Planet Hollywood…I was truly appalled, during the cab ride, at how built up the island was. Another post-er mentioned nearby Playa del Carmen as a less-touristy destination, but unfortunately, it’s not the sleepy fishing village it was on my first visit, not so long ago.  Still, better than Cancun

Response:

Question:

I am going to buy a new 20 ft pontoon.  The manufacturer sells it with either 25 or 40 hp motors.  I have already decided to opt for the 40 but don’t know which brand to get.  They sell Force, Mariner, or Honda.  I understand that the quality of the Honda is excellent but have no experience with that brand.  Any comments would be appreciated.  Also, any comments about "add-ons"–I’m going to use the  boat for cruising as well as fishing. Bill

Hi Bill, I am looking for a 30 to 40 HP myself. I think that I might get a Honda 4 cycle. They are more money, heavier, but are quieter and get better gas milage. My next choice would be a Yamaha 2 cycle. What do others think? Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

Go for the Honda.  Much better engine from reliability and maintenance point of view.  If the Honda is too much, then go with the Mariner.  Stay away from the Force.  It is a stripped down version made solely for the low end price market, which means it is also a low end motor. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to buy a new 20 ft pontoon.  The manufacturer sells it with either 25 or 40 hp motors.  I have already decided to opt for the 40 but don’t know which brand to get.  They sell Force, Mariner, or Honda.  I understand that the quality of the Honda is excellent but have no experience with that brand.  Any comments would be appreciated.  Also, any comments about "add-ons"–I’m going to use the  boat for cruising as well as fishing. Bill

Response:

Get the Mariner. It is more dependable and has a better garintee. I baught a Mariner 3 years ago. I had a small problem with the coil and they gave me a brand new motor no questions asked.

Response:

:I am going to buy a new 20 ft pontoon.  The manufacturer sells it with :either 25 or 40 hp motors.  I have already decided to opt for the 40 but :don’t know which brand to get.  They sell Force, Mariner, or Honda.  I :understand that the quality of the Honda is excellent but have no :experience with that brand.  Any comments would be appreciated.  Also, Hey Bill, I’m new to this group and your post caught my attention. I just got back from Florida where i rented a 20 foot pontoon with a 30 horse. It was pushing to get 15 to 18 mph ! I rented the same size boat last year with a 60 i believe and i was passing runabouts that were on plane !  If you ever need to  cover some real distance you might opt for bigger motor. If your just out scooting around small lake the smaller one will do but dont expect to get anywhere fast with that 25 Kevin

Response:

I am going to buy a new 20 ft pontoon.  The manufacturer sells it with either 25 or 40 hp motors.  I have already decided to opt for the 40 but don’t know which brand to get.  They sell Force, Mariner, or Honda.  I understand that the quality of the Honda is excellent but have no experience with that brand.  Any comments would be appreciated.  Also, any comments about "add-ons"–I’m going to use the  boat for cruising as well as fishing. Bill

Response:

Question:

Great Post!! I had the advantage of learning an appreciation of nature & fishing from my father at an early age. Although he wasn’t a fly fisherman & we fished for bass, musky, northerns etc, he had a love of wilderness & we shared some wonderful times together. Since leaving my father’s home some thirty years ago & moving to Colorado, I’ve evolved into a fly fisherman through alot of reading, trial & error, and countless hours on the stream. The way I fish today, is very different from the fishing I did with my father, but it is firmly rooted in the appreciation of fish, water & nature I learned from him.   I flyfish in my own way, that is more restrictive than George’s "one" definition. But this is FOR ME. I don’t define flyfishing for others by how I fish.  I would probably be considered to be following the "Art Form.". For me, when things are "right", the pleasure is viseral, elementary & fundamental & may or may not involve catching fish. However, flaming, belittling other people’s ideas or ways of doing things, & self rightuous preachings do not advances one’s cause. In fact the opposite is the result. Like most things, flyfishing is personnal & individual. There are no rules except for those you choose to follow. There is no one right way. Willi

Response:

I never used a strike indicator until about two years ago.  My eyes are deteriorating because of diabetes and I have trouble seeing my leader/line.  I put on a piece of yarn I got from my wife (Lefty’s idea), and was amazed at the strikes I was able to detect.

  I limit the use of strike indicators for those times of day when I would otherwise be unable to see my leader, so I guess i’m as unethical as Dave. Anybody who uses anything to aid his visual capacity must be unethical; I demand that all of you unethical polaroid user/abusers turn yourselves in at once.                                     Charlie

Response:

William Loehman writes:

<<…..However, flaming, belittling other people’s ideas or ways of doing things, & self rightuous preachings do not advances one’s cause. In fact the opposite is the result. A couple of great posts, especially the above.  I learned to fly fish in the 40s from my mom and dad, on the Deerfield, the Westfield, and the Farmington rivers.  We did not have most of the "neat" things available to fly fishermen today.  We didn’t have zingers  or nippers.   And, we didn’t have strike indicators OR Gink.  The flames I have seen on ROFF must come in jest, because if you approve of one innovation (Gink for instance) but disapprove of another (strike indicators, for instance), then you are surely a hypocrite of the first order.   I never used a strike indicator until about two years ago.  My eyes are deteriorating because of diabetes and I have trouble seeing my leader/line.  I put on a piece of yarn I got from my wife (Lefty’s idea), and was amazed at the strikes I was able to detect.  It was as if a was a boy in the 40s, fishing a wet fly!   I also sometimes use the things when fishing a dry, for I find it difficult to see my #16 caddis in fast water.  However, they do affect the drift in a negative way.  Orvis’ Quick Site orange butt leaders are also helpful for me to see the fly. Fly fishing has always been a visceral thing with me (and probably with most other folk also!).  And, it has always been a solitary venture.  You may "go" with a fishing buddy or two, but once you make your first cast, you are "alone".  If I need something to help me continue fly fishing (strike indicators), I will use it and I could shive a git what some narrow-minded bigoted people think of it.   And if you come upon me on a stream and call me "lazy" or "ignorant" or "stupid", well, you will be in a helluva lot of trouble. Dave LaCourse

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great Post!! I had the advantage of learning an appreciation of nature & fishing from my father at an early age. Although he wasn’t a fly fisherman & we fished for bass, musky, northerns etc, he had a love of wilderness & we shared some wonderful times together. Since leaving my father’s home some thirty years ago & moving to Colorado, I’ve evolved into a fly fisherman through alot of reading, trial & error, and countless hours on the stream. The way I fish today, is very different from the fishing I did with my father, but it is firmly rooted in the appreciation of fish, water & nature I learned from him. I flyfish in my own way, that is more restrictive than George’s "one" definition. But this is FOR ME. I don’t define flyfishing for others by how I fish.  I would probably be considered to be following the "Art Form.". For me, when things are "right", the pleasure is viseral, elementary & fundamental & may or may not involve catching fish. However, flaming, belittling other people’s ideas or ways of doing things, & self rightuous preachings do not advances one’s cause. In fact the opposite is the result. Like most things, flyfishing is personnal & individual. There are no rules except for those you choose to follow. There is no one right way. Willi

Somebody finally said "it all" about our sport. Congratulations Willi, you’ve really got a handle on it. Jim

Response:

I’m neither a red neck nor a yuppie, but somewhere in between. I didn’t get started in all this by some movie. I learned long ago on a river in my youth, the hard way. Many fish outings and many lessons over those early years. Today the upstarts buy a ticket at the window and get on the ride. Instantly you have a "Fly fisherman in a can." In gulp they take it all in without ever getting the true taste. They seem to acquire and possess the knowledge of several life times and doing it at hyper speed. Has Fly Fishing become a pastime that resembles a brothel in comparison? I guess most of us want the real genuine thing regardless of the amount of effort that we put forth. For some, the need is so great for success that the real elementary lessons are never really encountered. Today you can have any thing you want as long as you can pay for it. To hell with it if you have to earn it. Another example is that you can buy your way to the summit of Mt. Everest without ever having to work or earn a place on a real team. Somewhere the "Art Form of Fly Fishing" was taken over by the Science form. What does that mean? Every element has been reduced to the science matter of increasing the catch. Why, and to what end do we need the numbers? Our children have petting Zoos, do we need them too? For a number of years I was away from fly fishing, spending my time climbing and sailing. There you had to be a participant and be real to get from one place the next. You had to perform on your own merits and deficiencies and overcome your short comings. Yes, the real art form comes from within. But the science has reduced Fly Fishing to an action vs. reaction, to an event to a counter-event and so on. All the elements have been broken down to their parts to be studied and be reproduced. Blindness comes in many forms. I choose not to be one of the ones looking over the elephant. What George speaks of is the art form and trying to maintain some semblance of the true heritage. Some places are just not mente to be fished. Sort of like peeing on hallow ground. Could the heritage of fly fishing be lost in only one generation? The old-timers while not gods do have much to offer. Do we set them aside, all for the achievements for scientific end? I would rather learn form an old-timer than take the shortcut route via the scientific method. But as time moves on, new meets old and a blending occurs. Hopefully without the distortion of where we came from and adding a price tag to it. My ten year-old son summed it up the other day, "Dad, you know this is the best Sunday school that you take me to." He sees the true art form for what it is and the meaning of being skunked. He will spend more time watching and asking questions than actually fishing. He will keep a fish and throw some back for next time. He hates truck trout and the ones scared by others. We have more to learn from them than is truly realized. But is the evil metastasis occurring before our very eyes? For me its the real thing or sometimes a little hair on the palms. The store bought knowledge you can get it at the edge of most towns in Nevada. — Doug Knight                           metalfab<atefaxinc.com Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP. Evil flames $1,000.00 per mailing.

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Question:

Any input?  I’m looking to make a decision between a Redington 9′ 8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.  So far Redington is in the lead because of the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty.

The st. Croix Legend is a great deal. BTW it also has a lifetime unconditional warrenty.

Response:

Any input?  I’m looking to make a decision between a Redington 9′ 8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.  So far Redington is in the lead because of the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty. —       _                 Dan Siderius                    |   / _` / _` | “ |      Check out My Homepage at:       |   __,___,_|_,,_|      http://wybbs.wynalda.com/~dans        |

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8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.

Dear Dan; The St. Croix may be a slightly faster action rod.  My experience ends with the 6/7 wts., but the principle may carry over to the higher weights.  They are both the same modulous graphite, but the cost of the St. Croix includes a pretty decent rod tube.  Flip a coin.  Better yet, cast ‘em both.  Even better yet, buy a Versitex! Sincerely; Jason Beary

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I’ve got a St Croix Legend (5wt, 9ft) All I can say is that it gets the job done. It’s fine, I works, I’ve got no complaints, but I know, in my heart of hearts, that I ain’t driving a Caddy. True, the warrenty is good and the fly tube is great and gbest of all, the price is excellent. I will be upgrading tho, when my big ship comes in Damn, faint praise! S. "The World is full of shipping clerks who read the Harvard Classics." –Bukowski, American writer, poet S. Duda Seattle, WA

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Dan, I used to fish with a St. Croix and now I fish with a Redington.  I own a Redington 9 ft., 5wt.  My St. Croix is a 8.5 ft., 5/6 wt.  I like my Redington a lot better.  It is a little faster, and the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty has come in handy.  I work at Jacklin’s Fly Shop in West Yellowstone and My Redington worked fine out there last summer.                               Jamie. Any input?  I’m looking to make a decision between a Redington 9′ 8/9wt. and a St. Croix of the same build.  So far Redington is in the lead because of the Unconditional Lifetime Warranty. —       _                 Dan Siderius                    |   / _` / _` | “ |      Check out My Homepage at:       |   __,___,_|_,,_|      http://wybbs.wynalda.com/~dans  |

– Jamie Farrell Interests:   -fly fishing   -fly tying   -camping   -hiking

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Question:

Does anyone know about beaver creek in CA this year or at all? I was there last year late in the summer and the water was realy low. The were a lot of feed bugs in the water, but the water was too low to produce any sizable trout. Any info on the creek would be great. TimFLYFISH Dream of flyfishing, but also let the fish dream. C & R

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Tim, where do you fish Beaver Ck.? in the park or up outa Sourgrass? I would expect the water to be high right now. The Stanislaus at Sourgrass was pretty high and fast a couple weeks ago. As I remember the fish aren’t really big there. This time of the year, due to high, fast water fish close to the river bank. There are some nice holes outa Sourgrass and up the creek where the road crosses Beaver Ck. wish you luck, Bob

: Does anyone know about beaver creek in CA this year or at all? I was there : last year late in the summer and the water was realy low. The were a lot : of feed bugs in the water, but the water was too low to produce any : sizable trout. Any info on the creek would be great. : TimFLYFISH : Dream of flyfishing, but also let the fish dream. C & R —  Remember amateur astronomers: "keep looking for the next Universe"

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