Question:

I was given my first fly rod …. a cheap cane one bought at Sears …. a Ted Williams or something, as I recall I took it to Yellowstone in 1970 on vacation and caught my first fly caught trout …. and it changed my life. What was the "value" of that old "cheap, give away’ rod?     To me, it has been priceless …. the rod, itself is long gone…. but, what it started grows faster each passing year… a love of trout, fly fishing, and the places both require About 20 years ago I gave a ‘kid" that worked for me an old Fenwick glass fly rod, I had "advanced" to graphite.    To make a long story short, he got hooked, went to school in fisheries biology, and now works for  Fish and Game.    I just got a phone call from him, to tell me where the ducks and geese where at, in case I wanted a good hunt, in a little known spot. The value of the old glass rod?…. well, what is somehing that points a young person towards a good career worth?  What is an "insider" phone call worth when the fishing gets hot?… I get several a year because of that rod. A number of  years ago, a fellow, then in his 80’s,  that I barely knew gave me an E.C. Powell rod and told me it’s history.  To my "why me?" he answered, " I saw you fishing Silver Creek, and it’s rare to see a person enjoying the sport that much, I walked by you within feet and you never even noticed, you were totally absorbed, in your fishing.   The rod comes with a requirement …do no ‘collect’ this rod.   I’m giving it to you becasue I want it FISHED, not collected." I do fish it, too, a few times each year.  It could be "collected"…  Walton Powell, wanted it for his collection when he was still alive.   But, when I get to the point where I can’t fish it, you will see me walking the banks, looking for the right person to pass it on to …. and he will be told to fish it, not collect it. Got an old rod, that you don’t really use?  Consider giving it to a "kid" …. even if it’s "just a rod" to you, it won’t be to him, if it gets him out on the streams Got a valuable collectors item …. at least consider fishing it, now and then.   Imho, that is the best way to honor it’s maker

Response:

  A number of  years ago, a fellow, then in his 80’s,  that I barely knew gave me an E.C. Powell rod and told me it’s history.  To my "why me?" he answered, " I saw you fishing Silver Creek, and it’s rare to see a person enjoying the sport that much, I walked by you within feet and you never even noticed, you were totally absorbed, in your fishing.   The rod comes with a requirement …do no ‘collect’ this rod.   I’m giving it to you becasue I want it FISHED, not collected."

Your settings are right on the mark, Larry.

Response:

Larry, Were you born on March 25th 1945 ? — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com   I was given my first fly rod …. a cheap cane one bought at Sears …. a Ted Williams or something, as I recall   I took it to Yellowstone in 1970 on vacation and caught my first fly caught trout …. and it changed my life.   What was the "value" of that old "cheap, give away’ rod?     To me, it has been priceless …. the rod, itself is long gone…. but, what it started grows faster each passing year… a love of trout, fly fishing, and the places both require   About 20 years ago I gave a ‘kid" that worked for me an old Fenwick glass fly rod, I had "advanced" to graphite.    To make a long story short, he got hooked, went to school in fisheries biology, and now works for  Fish and Game.    I just got a phone call from him, to tell me where the ducks and geese where at, in case I wanted a good hunt, in a little known spot.   The value of the old glass rod?…. well, what is somehing that points a young person towards a good career worth?  What is an "insider" phone call worth when the fishing gets hot?… I get several a year because of that rod.   A number of  years ago, a fellow, then in his 80’s,  that I barely knew gave me an E.C. Powell rod and told me it’s history.  To my "why me?" he answered, " I saw you fishing Silver Creek, and it’s rare to see a person enjoying the sport that much, I walked by you within feet and you never even noticed, you were totally absorbed, in your fishing.   The rod comes with a requirement …do no ‘collect’ this rod.   I’m giving it to you becasue I want it FISHED, not collected."   I do fish it, too, a few times each year.  It could be "collected"…  Walton Powell, wanted it for his collection when he was still alive.   But, when I get to the point where I can’t fish it, you will see me walking the banks, looking for the right person to pass it on to …. and he will be told to fish it, not collect it.   Got an old rod, that you don’t really use?  Consider giving it to a "kid" …. even if it’s "just a rod" to you, it won’t be to him, if it gets him out on the streams   Got a valuable collectors item …. at least consider fishing it, now and then.   Imho, that is the best way to honor it’s maker

Response:

  Larry,   Were you born on March 25th 1945 ?   —   ahhh…pretty close…right age group, for sure.   but, I don’t know the significance of that date … am I being dumber than my normal, very dumb, self ???  

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Question:

Hey Bill,     Do you ever fish for them with Dries Skated on the surface? That’s a popular tactic up here on many rivers for their bigger brothers so I was just curious how well they took a skated fly. Gary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, September is one of the top months for these small trout sized steelhead. They are 16" and bigger with fish over 20".  Mat Johnson of Kiene’s Fly Shop caught a 27" fish this week. This is the best return we have had in 3 or 4 years. I would try from Goethe Park  downstream to Pardise Beach. Morning and evening is best when the light level in lower.  We use #5, #6 or #7 weight outfits with floating lines in the AM and PM so we can swing wet flies down and accoss to these hot fish. In the day time you can use sinktip lines or indicator fish in the riffles. We use a 9′ 3x leader. We like #8, 10 and 12 wet flies. Some popular patterns are any small steelhead pattern like the Brindle Bug, Assassin, Renegade, Coachman, Burlap and Silver Hilton.  Many trout nymphs or soft hackle wets work well like the This same fishing is happening on the lower Klamath and lower Rogue Rivers as I type this info.

Response:

Hi All, September is one of the top months for these small trout sized steelhead. They are 16" and bigger with fish over 20".  Mat Johnson of Kiene’s Fly Shop caught a 27" fish this week. This is the best return we have had in 3 or 4 years. I would try from Goethe Park  downstream to Pardise Beach. Morning and evening is best when the light level in lower.  We use #5, #6 or #7 weight outfits with floating lines in the AM and PM so we can swing wet flies down and accoss to these hot fish. In the day time you can use sinktip lines or indicator fish in the riffles. We use a 9′ 3x leader. We like #8, 10 and 12 wet flies. Some popular patterns are any small steelhead pattern like the Brindle Bug, Assassin, Renegade, Coachman, Burlap and Silver Hilton.  Many trout nymphs or soft hackle wets work well like the This same fishing is happening on the lower Klamath and lower Rogue Rivers as I type this info.

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Question:

Right on. Al

Response:

Right on. Al

Fly" while slicing  your sandwich in two with your fillet knife. —

Question:

I vote we change the name of ROFF to Alt. M. Skeeter seems much more appropriate lately. Willi

Response:

I vote we change the name of ROFF to Alt. M. Skeeter seems much more appropriate lately. Willi

Over in the comp.* newsgroups, they have something called "advocacy" groups.  The idea is that all of the "Mac sux, PC Rulz!" and "Bill Gates is the Great Satan" threads should be limited to comp.*.advocacy, leaving the technical newsgroups for discussion of technical issues.  If you don’t like having the "M. Skeeter" threads in ROFF, you might consider forming ROFF.advocacy. Having said that, let me make it clear that I am not taking aim at Tim W. In my opinion, his posts are as relevant as those from the spokespersons for the flyfishing industry, any of the posts on the morality of C&R, debates about whether real flyfishers use indicators, condemnations of shuffling, condemnations of fishing for spawning salmon, or the thread on jet skis.  You just need to decide where you want this stuff to appear. If you want any of it in ROFF, then you should be prepared for all of it. — Frank

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Question:

Hi Fisherfolks! One of my friends is going to a family reunion near Charma, New Mexico. He says the Brazos River is near there. He would like to try fly-fishing again while he is there. He used to flyfish as a kid, but let it go as an adult, and would like to find a guide who can help him get reacquainted (sp?) with it. Can anyone help with this? Please E-mail me your response. Thanks for the help! Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor, MI

Response:

Hi Fisherfolks! One of my friends is going to a family reunion near Charma, New Mexico. He says the Brazos River is near there. He would like to try fly-fishing again while he is there. He used to flyfish as a kid, but let it go as an adult, and would like to find a guide who can help him get reacquainted (sp?) with it. Can anyone help with this? Please E-mail me your response. Thanks for the help! Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor, MI

Hi Steve I recently fished there and the fishing was good. I didn’t use a guide but I’m sure you can find a guide by clicking on my web page and then on the fishing reports. There is a whole section on New Mexico. From there it’s just a matter of checking the different report and the organizations who supply them. Good luck & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

Response:

Hi Fisherfolks! One of my friends is going to a family reunion near Charma, New Mexico. He says the Brazos River is near there. He would like to try fly-fishing again while he is there. He used to flyfish as a kid, but let it go as an adult, and would like to find a guide who can help him get reacquainted (sp?) with it. Can anyone help with this? Please E-mail me your response. Thanks for the help! Steve Rosenblum Ann Arbor, MI

I don’t know about the Brazos but the Chama, the Rio Grande, the Cimmaron and other N New Mexico streams and rivers offer great fishing.  Your friend might contact Van Beacham at Los Rios Angler in Taos (not too far from Chama by western standards).  LRA phone number is (505)758-2798.  Los Pinos in Albaquerque (505) 884-7501 or High Desert Angler in Sanat Fe (505) 98 TROUT –don’t you hate look for those letters?– might be able to suggest or provide guides.  The book Flyfishing in Northern New Mexico is great if you friend doesn’t really need a guide. John

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Question:

For all those fans of the Loomis IMX Rods there is hope. Talked to Gary Loomis about the GL4 rods and he reccomends to underline the GL4 fly rods by one line weight; by doing this you will now have the IMX action.

Does this mean that by overlining my IMX by one weight I get a GL4 action? Great! Fish on, Allen

Response:

For all those fans of the Loomis IMX Rods there is hope. Talked to Gary Loomis about the GL4 rods and he reccomends to underline the GL4 fly rods by one line weight; by doing this you will now have the IMX action. Does this mean that by overlining my IMX by one weight I get a GL4 action? Great! Fish on, Allen

Yes!  Not only that, but overlining a GL4 by two weights will give you a winston.  Overline by 3 weights… Instant Cane rod!  I love technology! Phil

Response:

For all those fans of the Loomis IMX Rods there is hope. Talked to Gary Loomis about the GL4 rods and he reccomends to underline the GL4 fly rods by one line weight; by doing this you will now have the IMX action. Tight Lines and Release ‘em Nick DelleDonne — Nick DelleDonne, Fly Fishing Consultant and Owner of: The Evening Rise Fly Angler’s Shop, 4182 Old Phila. Pike, PO Box 446 "Shop Located 3 Miles East of Intercourse, PA on Route 340"

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Question:

I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

My friend Jim Dionne at Dirigo Flies says he can help you out, and hit your price range Give him a call at (800) 893-2815 tell him you’re the guy from the internet I told him about.                                         jc

Response:

while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Yes I do!  But they only have 2/0, 2, and 6 ($2.25), and the 2/0 only in chartreuse and white (which by the way is my favorite saltwater color!). They are the Fly Fishing Shop in Welches Oregon.  They have a wonderful web site at www.teleport.com/~flyfish  Their number is 503-622-4607. They are pleasure to deal with long distance, and I’m willing to bet they can get you what you want in any color with a little advance notice.  Good luck! Phil

Response:

while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks! Yes I do!  But they only have 2/0, 2, and 6 ($2.25), and the 2/0 only in chartreuse and white (which by the way is my favorite saltwater color!). They are the Fly Fishing Shop in Welches Oregon.  They have a wonderful web site at www.teleport.com/~flyfish  Their number is 503-622-4607. They are pleasure to deal with long distance, and I’m willing to bet they can get you what you want in any color with a little advance notice.  Good luck! Phil

I have an on line catalog and have the Clousers in any size and color that you want. You can see my catalog at http://www.surfsouth.com/~jbranham/retailcatalog.html

Response:

I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Hello- This is probably not what you want to here, but… I would suggest learning to tie them yourself. Clousers are extremely easy to tie and the materials are cheap. I am not a very fast tyer, and I just turned out 10 in the last hour. I tied them on 3/0 for salt water use (Mustad 3407 hooks at about $7/100). That way you can tie them in any size or color combo you want. Even if you don’t tie now with just a few very basic lessons you can tie clousers. Good Luck! Steve Rosenblum

Response:

I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Response:

I don’t want to spend $3.50 and up for Clousers (via Orvis or my local shop) and while LL Bean’s got em for $2.25 or so (much more in line), they don’t sell them in 1/0, which is pretty much the size I want.  So, does anyone know a good mailorder source for Clousers at a reasonable price? Thanks!

Try to get a second hand vice and tie your own. They are the most simple saltwater fly to tie and you can make a hundred for what it costs to buy ten at Orvis prices. Get the cheapest vice you can find at first and THEN decide if you want to keep tying. If so, consider the best vice you can afford and prepare yourself for the plethora of tying materials you will want to buy along with the books, videos and CD-ROMs you will get to learn how to tie. Good Luck,         jmc

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Question:

Has anyone ever been up to Packer Lake in the Sierras? It was mentioned along with Upper and Lower Sardine Lakes.  I’ve been to those.  Stocked regularly… boats with electric motors… cabins next door.  Is Packer the one over the ridge and down in the valley? I think probably a couple mile hike.  How does it fish? jeff — Center for Computational Sciences and Engineering  PHONE: (510)486-5348 Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory              FAX: (510)486-6900

I would fly fish the Gold lakes basin in June or Oct. In August the fish are usually pretty deep. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Response:

Fished Packer Lake several years ago. Tough lake to fish unless youi know it well. Stay with lower Sardine in the evenings. Stocked with lots of nice trout and a beautiful lake.

Response:

Has anyone ever been up to Packer Lake in the Sierras? It was mentioned along with Upper and Lower Sardine Lakes.  I’ve been to those.  Stocked regularly… boats with electric motors… cabins next door.  Is Packer the one over the ridge and down in the valley? I think probably a couple mile hike.  How does it fish? jeff — Center for Computational Sciences and Engineering  PHONE: (510)486-5348 Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory              FAX: (510)486-6900

Response:

Sorry I’m brain-dead this a.m.  These lake where mentioned in "FishFirst"’s report… Sorry for the confusion.  It’s Friday and I’ve only had one cup of coffee (so far) today. jeff — Center for Computational Sciences and Engineering  PHONE: (510)486-5348 Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory              FAX: (510)486-6900

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Question:

I would advise against wrapping any guide that’s bigger than you.  -AR

Response:

If you use no color preserver, you take away the option of ever replacing a guide if you need to.  There is no way to remove the wrap without destroying the blank.

Bad advice here!  It is actually quite easy to remove a guide wrapped with non-NCP thread.  Done correctly, there will be no damage to the blank.  Simply cut through the wrap and epoxy with a single edge razor.  Slice along the guide foot to help avoid nicking the blank. Once you get started, simply slip your fingernail under the wrap and it will peel off.  No problem. I think your mass production types are more interested in eliminating a step from the manufacturing process (properly applied and allowed to dry, color preserver would add about 24 hours) than blending the color of the thread into the blank.

Actually, I think most manufacturers use non-NCP because most buyers prefer the look. You are correct however that the wrap will be stronger when the epoxy finish is applied without color preserver.  OTOH, I’ve been told that when properly done, the wrap alone should provide all the strength required to hold the guide on the rod and you should not rely on the finish to make up for a loose wrap.

It is true that you should never rely on the finish to make up for a loose wrap, but then you would always use a finish, so whether the thread wrap alone would be strong enough over time to hold the guide is academic.  Go for the strongest wrap you can and use non-NCP thread except for trim rings. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bad advice here!  It is actually quite easy to remove a guide wrapped with non-NCP thread.  Done correctly, there will be no damage to the blank.  Simply cut through the wrap and epoxy with a single edge razor.  Slice along the guide foot to help avoid nicking the blank. Once you get started, simply slip your fingernail under the wrap and it will peel off.  No problem. Actually, I think most manufacturers use non-NCP because most buyers prefer the look. It is true that you should never rely on the finish to make up for a loose wrap, but then you would always use a finish, so whether the thread wrap alone would be strong enough over time to hold the guide is academic.  Go for the strongest wrap you can and use non-NCP thread except for trim rings.

Great post, Lyman. My 15 years of building custom fly rods for myself, others, and commercially confirm everything you’ve said. In my rod repairs, I have never encountered a situation where blank damage has occurred when removing a guide, even on rods that had been wrapped 25 years ago. It just takes care and patience. I use standard thread with no color preservers on 90% of the rods I build. The bottom line is this technique is the best way to obtain a wrap that closely matches the color of the blank. This "stealthiness" has invaded the fly rod industry. Just take a look at Sage’s new SP line or Winston’s IM6 rods and you’ll see why the process looks so good. Ryan

Response:

If you use no color preserver, you take away the option of ever replacing a guide if you need to.  There is no way to remove the wrap without destroying the blank. Bad advice here!  It is actually quite easy to remove a guide wrapped with non-NCP thread.  Done correctly, there will be no damage to the blank.  Simply cut through the wrap and epoxy with a single edge razor.  Slice along the guide foot to help avoid nicking the blank. Once you get started, simply slip your fingernail under the wrap and it will peel off.  No problem.

Are you kidding?  What kind of "epoxy" are you using?  When applied without color preserver the finish soaks through the thread and comes into direct contact with the blank.  I have encountered no epoxy that will "peel off" of anything. Every time I’ve tried what you mention, the thread/finish combination has turned into a solid mass.  I’ve tried exactly what you describe and cut along the guide foot with a razor.  When I pulled off the guide (with much effort) the rest of the wrap/finish stayed right where it was and left a nice solid wrap with a trench gug out where the guide foot had been.

Response:

I used straight epoxy with no color preserve and had my rod spinner break down during the night. I woke up wih big bellies in all my wraps. I just cut them off fairly easily with a rasor and re-wrapped the whole rod. It wasn’t a big project to remove the old wrappings.

Response:

Quoting "DavidC.Benjamin"<dcb from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    <I am seeking advice on the use of non-NCP thread for    <guide wrapping on a rod I am building.  Up to this point    <I have used only NCP threads and have been very satisfied    <with the results when finished. David – If you use non-NCP thread withoput applying color preserver it will become somewhat transparent when you apply the rod finish.  How transparent will depend on the color thread used.  If you look at some  factory rods its easy to see which brands do not use color preserver as the guidefeet show thru the wraps.  If you use color preserver the non-NCP thread will have a sparkley coloring as opposed to the flatter colors of the NCP thread.  It’s really personal preference which you prefer more. Jim Carlisle

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am seeking advice on the use of non-NCP thread for guide wrapping on a rod I am building.  Up to this point I have used only NCP threads and have been very satisfied with the results when finished.   Recently, I bought a Thomas & Thomas Horizon blank and it is a dark blue in color.  I plan to wrap it using a dark blue colored thread (Navy Blue) with light blue and gold highlights.  However, when ordering the threads I found that the Navy Blue (Guderod #066) does not come in NCP.  I am worried that when coated it will become transparent — which I definitely do not want.  Skip Morris’s book says that if you do a trial wrap and soak it with water, you can see what it will look like when coated.  I did so and it was not transparent and I am satisfied with the way it looks and hopefully will look when coated. Question: has anyone out there had any experience with this "problem" and will it really remain non-transparent when finished?  I hope to wrap the rod within the next few days, finish it this weekend and fish it on the 27th or 28th. As you can imagine I hope to get feedback "very" soon. Thanks in advance! Keep your fly dry, David p.s. Lyman, are you out there?

I think many of the major fly rod manufacturers use non-NCP thread with no color preserver. This is not the way they finish those cool convetional salt water sticks. You will get a transparent result with no color preserver on standard thread. This gives them a clean look with the thread blending with the blank and also allows the epoxy to penetrate the thread better to bond with the blank. I have been selling rod building supplies for over 30 years and have heard almost every story imaginable. If someone has better info I will not be shocked as I have been wrong before. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am seeking advice on the use of non-NCP thread for guide wrapping on a rod I am building.  Up to this point I have used only NCP threads and have been very satisfied with the results when finished.   Recently, I bought a Thomas & Thomas Horizon blank and it is a dark blue in color.  I plan to wrap it using a dark blue colored thread (Navy Blue) with light blue and gold highlights.  However, when ordering the threads I found that the Navy Blue (Guderod #066) does not come in NCP.  I am worried that when coated it will become transparent — which I definitely do not want.  Skip Morris’s book says that if you do a trial wrap and soak it with water, you can see what it will look like when coated.  I did so and it was not transparent and I am satisfied with the way it looks and hopefully will look when coated. Question: has anyone out there had any experience with this "problem" and will it really remain non-transparent when finished?  I hope to wrap the rod within the next few days, finish it this weekend and fish it on the 27th or 28th. As you can imagine I hope to get feedback "very" soon. Thanks in advance! Keep your fly dry, David p.s. Lyman, are you out there? I think many of the major fly rod manufacturers use non-NCP thread with no color preserver. This is not the way they finish those cool convetional salt water sticks. You will get a transparent result with no color preserver on standard thread. This gives them a clean look with the thread blending with the blank and also allows the epoxy to penetrate the thread better to bond with the blank. I have been selling rod building supplies for over 30 years and have heard almost every story imaginable. If someone has better info I will not be shocked as I have been wrong before. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

But… If you use no color preserver, you take away the option of ever replacing a guide if you need to.  There is no way to remove the wrap without destroying the blank. I think your mass production types are more interested in eliminating a step from the manufacturing process (properly applied and allowed to dry, color preserver would add about 24 hours) than blending the color of the thread into the blank. You are correct however that the wrap will be stronger when the epoxy finish is applied without color preserver.  OTOH, I’ve been told that when properly done, the wrap alone should provide all the strength required to hold the guide on the rod and you should not rely on the finish to make up for a loose wrap.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am seeking advice on the use of non-NCP thread for guide wrapping on a rod I am building.  Up to this point I have used only NCP threads and have been very satisfied with the results when finished.   Recently, I bought a Thomas & Thomas Horizon blank and it is a dark blue in color.  I plan to wrap it using a dark blue colored thread (Navy Blue) with light blue and gold highlights.  However, when ordering the threads I found that the Navy Blue (Guderod #066) does not come in NCP.  I am worried that when coated it will become transparent — which I definitely do not want.  Skip Morris’s book says that if you do a trial wrap and soak it with water, you can see what it will look like when coated.  I did so and it was not transparent and I am satisfied with the way it looks and hopefully will look when coated. Question: has anyone out there had any experience with this "problem" and will it really remain non-transparent when finished?  I hope to wrap the rod within the next few days, finish it this weekend and fish it on the 27th or 28th. As you can imagine I hope to get feedback "very" soon. Thanks in advance! Keep your fly dry, David p.s. Lyman, are you out there? I think many of the major fly rod manufacturers use non-NCP thread with no color preserver. This is not the way they finish those cool convetional salt water sticks. You will get a transparent result with no color preserver on standard thread. This gives them a clean look with the thread blending with the blank and also allows the epoxy to penetrate the thread better to bond with the blank. I have been selling rod building supplies for over 30 years and have heard almost every story imaginable. If someone has better info I will not be shocked as I have been wrong before. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

I always use color preservative to provide the ability to replace the guide (it WILL happen) and to seal the underwrap/blank wrap. In addition I find that the application of epoxy is easier (resulting in a much better finish) since I don’t have to hunt for gaps in the thread (the preserver fills it in). Of course as you say there are a million stroies and a million ways …. "The true angler is always content to fish alone" Brian Di Carlo

Response:

Using that dark thread on a similarly-colored blank, you shouldn’t have any trouble.  I build a lot of salt-water "standup" tuna rods on black Seeker blanks, and use medium blue non-NCP A thread for base wraps.  It works fine–as does the even lighter grey "gunmetal" thread I’m now using on a pair of Shakespeare Ugly Sticks.  Just be careful to use enough coats of color preserver, and soak all of the wrap.  I usually use 3 coats half-strength and 2 coats full strength (Clemens "Brilliance" brand) before applying the epoxy coats.  If you see "bleed-through" with the color preserver that doesn’t disappear when the preserver dries, you have a problem.  Redo that wrap.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am seeking advice on the use of non-NCP thread for guide wrapping on a rod I am building.  Up to this point I have used only NCP threads and have been very satisfied with the results when finished.   Recently, I bought a Thomas & Thomas Horizon blank and it is a dark blue in color.  I plan to wrap it using a dark blue colored thread (Navy Blue) with light blue and gold highlights.  However, when ordering the threads I found that the Navy Blue (Guderod #066) does not come in NCP.  I am worried that when coated it will become transparent — which I definitely do not want.  Skip Morris’s book says that if you do a trial wrap and soak it with water, you can see what it will look like when coated.  I did so and it was not transparent and I am satisfied with the way it looks and hopefully will look when coated. Question: has anyone out there had any experience with this "problem" and will it really remain non-transparent when finished?  I hope to wrap the rod within the next few days, finish it this weekend and fish it on the 27th or 28th. As you can imagine I hope to get feedback "very" soon. Thanks in advance! Keep your fly dry, David p.s. Lyman, are you out there?

There is a very good chance that the thread will become somewhat transparent when you apply epoxy.  The way to solve this problem is to use colour preserver.  One of the best brands available in my opinion is U40 Color Lock.   I think you will be pleased with regular thread over NCP thread.  This type of thread has stronger highlights when used with color preserver, and I think looks much better than NCP.  As well, an added bonus is that Regular thread is a little stronger than NCP as well it is not as porous, therefore, you will not have the same bubble problems that may occur with NCP. Ian Scott Wishbone Custom Rods http://www.headwaters.com/wishbone

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I am seeking advice on the use of non-NCP thread for guide wrapping on a rod I am building.  Up to this point I have used only NCP threads and have been very satisfied with the results when finished.   Recently, I bought a Thomas & Thomas Horizon blank and it is a dark blue in color.  I plan to wrap it using a dark blue colored thread (Navy Blue) with light blue and gold highlights.  However, when ordering the threads I found that the Navy Blue (Guderod #066) does not come in NCP.  I am worried that when coated it will become transparent — which I definitely do not want.  Skip Morris’s book says that if you do a trial wrap and soak it with water, you can see what it will look like when coated.  I did so and it was not transparent and I am satisfied with the way it looks and hopefully will look when coated. Question: has anyone out there had any experience with this "problem" and will it really remain non-transparent when finished?  I hope to wrap the rod within the next few days, finish it this weekend and fish it on the 27th or 28th. As you can imagine I hope to get feedback "very" soon. Thanks in advance! Keep your fly dry, David p.s. Lyman, are you out there?

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I’m so new to this I have no info to trade, I live in Castle Rock, and I still think Deckers is great? Anyway- like you I am interested in knowing some of the spots other people prefer so please keep this posting going, Of all the Fly Fishers I know, few are into computers, and of those who do both only a few will be able to go on the same day as me, so I’m not worried about crowds forming. Mike Peters —- Fishing, Camping, MWC, Home office, Colorado, Micrographics, Computers, Electronics, TV/VCR/Audio repair.

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I’m interested in fly fishing in Colorado in some of the more out of the way streams and mountain lakes. Places that require a 5 to 10 mile hike .These places are safe from the mob because they are too hard to get to. Anybody out there have any secret places near Vail they want to talk

about About a month ago -1st of Feb – I went fly fishing out of Avon (Beaver Creek) on the Lower and Upper Eagle River, in and out of Vail.  There’s a new shop, Fly Fishing Outfitters, in Avon.  Owner is Bill Perry and guide is Pat Moore.  Beautiful scenery, but not the hike you describe.  Pat Moore is very helpful as a guide, if that’s what you’re looking for.  Have fun! Pat Ottinger

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: I’m interested in fly fishing in Colorado in some of the more out of the : way streams and mountain lakes. Places that require a 5 to 10 mile hike : .These places are safe from the mob because they are too hard to get to. : Anybody out there have any secret places near Vail they want to talk : about I’d show you, but then I’d have to kill you. ;{) Tim Walker

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I’m interested in fly fishing in Colorado in some of the more out of the way streams and mountain lakes. Places that require a 5 to 10 mile hike .These places are safe from the mob because they are too hard to get to. Anybody out there have any secret places near Vail they want to talk about —like how is Grizzly Creek.

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