Question:

Spending a week in the Jackson Hole area, and would like suggestions for access to Flat Creek in the Elk Refuge. Has it been too dry?  Bank fishing only or can it be wade fished? Best, Vic

Vic: Not to worry about Elk. They don’t come to the refuge till late Oct/Nov. Sounds like your times are OK…..George  ( enjoy  )

Response:

Spending a week in the Jackson Hole area, and would like suggestions for access to Flat Creek in the Elk Refuge. Has it been too dry?  Bank fishing only or can it be wade fished? Best, Vic

Response:

Spending a week in the Jackson Hole area, and would like suggestions for access to Flat Creek in the Elk Refuge. Has it been too dry?  Bank fishing only or can it be wade fished? Best, Vic

Vic:  Access is easy at cut out parking along side the Elk refuge. Put on gear and walk to Flat Creek(couple hundred yards).My son lives in Jackson and fishes the creek often.He has not mentioned it being dry. I can’t see that hapening frankly.We will be there next month. I have fished the creek an it is the PHD of fly fishing. Fish are VERY spooky. You can wade easily although I have never seen anyone do it cause you spook the fish. Best to sneak along the bank so as not to be seen and cast from there.There are some really BIG fish in it, but probably by now they’ve seen about every fly in existance. Creek is never crowded–that’s not the problem…the fish are SMART. Good luck…sincerely. I’d be interested in your outcome. George Reber

Response:

Thanks George! September is Elk mating season, no clanking about, eh. I’ll give it a try from the bank. Fish usually rise around 11:00 AM, and return for the evening hatch around 4:00 PM? Tight lines, Vic

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Spending a week in the Jackson Hole area, and would like suggestions for access to Flat Creek in the Elk Refuge. Has it been too dry?  Bank fishing only or can it be wade fished? Best, Vic Vic:  Access is easy at cut out parking along side the Elk refuge. Put on gear and walk to Flat Creek(couple hundred yards).My son lives in Jackson and fishes the creek often.He has not mentioned it being dry. I can’t see that hapening frankly.We will be there next month. I have fished the creek an it is the PHD of fly fishing. Fish are VERY spooky. You can wade easily although I have never seen anyone do it cause you spook the fish. Best to sneak along the bank so as not to be seen and cast from there.There are some really BIG fish in it, but probably by now they’ve seen about every fly in existance. Creek is never crowded–that’s not the problem…the fish are SMART. Good luck…sincerely. I’d be interested in your outcome. George Reber

Response:

Question:

Have you done this walk up Hazel as an overnighter?  It has been my experience that what is a six hour walk with a fly rod is a whole different critter than hiking in with a backpack, tent, etc.  At any rate, I’m in if the sceduling can be worked out.  Any idea what the actual mileage is?

never done it…they wouldn’t let you fish up there FOR 25 YEARS!  why would i walk that far *not* to fish…  now that it’s open to fishing, i’m yearning to take a look at the water.  i’m thinking it’s 8-10 miles up to the walkers creek, proctor creek area based on my map. the cascade is about 13 miles… but maybe someone who’s a hiker and been in there can tell us –  and…the trail is a flat road, much easier walking than snowbird.  there are carts with big wheels…  can’t we do 8 miles in 6 hours? btw…i’m still wet-wading in october… neoprenes seem a bit much for carolina fall fishing. I agree about the neoprenes but my one experience fishing with you in October suggests that wading wet could be a bit iffy……

yeah, but that’s why we’ll be carryin the lightweight goretex <g.  it’s when you’re done fishin that the wetness and the evening chill gets you… the days are great, unless it rains. it’s o.k. if you’re naturally numb from the waist down

i can’t help it if you’re easily numbed… those of us with sturdy scrotum and "turtle" reflex find it invigorating… but for those of us who are of the neck up persuasion

…hmm, thought ee cummings described them as boston women… it would come down to a choice between walking on our hands or perhaps wearing lightweights.      :)

damn…if only i’d known what might have occurred if i’d gotten the lightweights instead of the socks… jeff (makin a note) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you done this walk up Hazel as an overnighter?  It has been my experience that what is a six hour walk with a fly rod is a whole different critter than hiking in with a backpack, tent, etc.  At any rate, I’m in if the sceduling can be worked out.  Any idea what the actual mileage is? never done it…they wouldn’t let you fish up there FOR 25 YEARS!  why would i walk that far *not* to fish…  now that it’s open to fishing, i’m yearning to take a look at the water.  i’m thinking it’s 8-10 miles up to the walkers creek, proctor creek area based on my map. the cascade is about 13 miles… but maybe someone who’s a hiker and been in there can tell us –  and…the trail is a flat road, much easier walking than snowbird.  there are carts with big wheels…  can’t we do 8 miles in 6 hours?

"Got Speed Bumps?"

Response:

no speed bumps so far…but i’ve only been up about 3 miles.  i’ve been told wayno’s had the park rangers drive him up the road, so maybe he can describe upper hazel. i believe you could do it no problem.  didn’t you go up a ways when wayno hit his big rainbow? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Got Speed Bumps?"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you done this walk up Hazel as an overnighter?  It has been my experience that what is a six hour walk with a fly rod is a whole different critter than hiking in with a backpack, tent, etc.  At any rate, I’m in if the sceduling can be worked out.  Any idea what the actual mileage is? never done it…they wouldn’t let you fish up there FOR 25 YEARS!  why would i walk that far *not* to fish…  now that it’s open to fishing, i’m yearning to take a look at the water.  i’m thinking it’s 8-10 miles up to the walkers creek, proctor creek area based on my map. the cascade is about 13 miles… but maybe someone who’s a hiker and been in there can tell us –  and…the trail is a flat road, much easier walking than snowbird.  there are carts with big wheels…  can’t we do 8 miles in 6 hours?

Shit, Tripper can do eight miles in six hours on a flat road in a big wheel cart……um……well, if Petah is pushing it. btw…i’m still wet-wading in october… neoprenes seem a bit much for carolina fall fishing. I agree about the neoprenes but my one experience fishing with you in October suggests that wading wet could be a bit iffy…… yeah, but that’s why we’ll be carryin the lightweight goretex <g.  it’s when you’re done fishin that the wetness and the evening chill gets you… the days are great, unless it rains.

I LOVE rain…..it’s warmer than the creek! it’s o.k. if you’re naturally numb from the waist down i can’t help it if you’re easily numbed… those of us with sturdy scrotum and "turtle" reflex find it invigorating…

Uh…….remind me not to watch you bathe up there…..o.k.?      :( but for those of us who are of the neck up persuasion …hmm, thought ee cummings described them as boston women…

I’ll have to defer to mr. harrison vis mr. cummings…..they speak the same language. it would come down to a choice between walking on our hands or perhaps wearing lightweights.      :) damn…if only i’d known what might have occurred if i’d gotten the lightweights instead of the socks…

Oh yeah, they’re indispensable, as Mr. Tup so eloquently put it. jeff (makin a note)

Uh huh, about a fourth register E if mine ear doth not deceive me. Wolfgang who would recommend a good geographer to explain the nice distinction between flat and level.    :)

Response:

On my topo map this looks to be a pretty ambitous trip. Approximately 13.5 miles and 2000 feet of elevation. Early in May my son and I walked up to the campsite at the confluence of Hazel and Sugar Fork. It’s about 5.6 miles by the trail and 425 feet vertically from the lake. Had a full pack with pasta and dehydrated meals for two days, tent, sleeping bag, thermarest, primus stove, waders, wading boots, rod, vest, etc. And one can of St. Louis’ best beer.  I figure the pack weighed at least 30 lbs. It seemed much heavier. The fishing apparatus added more weight (total = 40?) and hassle. Furthermore, I was pretty sadly out of shape. Having listed all those excuses, it took between four and five hours to make the trip. That included several stops along the way to admire the creek. You all have been on the trail before – it’s a gentle grade and fairly easy walk if you don’t try to take your entire net worth in equipment. But a 13 or 14 mile walk with full pack and fishing gear is a fairly major undertaking. Wet wading in Smoky mountain streams in October takes more fortitude than I have. I’m numb enough from the waist down already, and it gets worse every year. Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …well, this appears to be the beginnings of yet another fine idea. i suggest you take charge of it, establish some proposed dates, and we’ll set up a new thread to see what develops. if zimbo is still hereabouts, perhaps he’ll post the dates of his gathering – i’m gonna be in the smokies the week of oct 19-26th with rachel – the 21st is her birthday. i can probably manage a 3-day camping trip either before that week or at the latter part of that week, or i can take a 4 day weekend thursday-sunday at another time. the park service provides some carts we can use to roll supplies up the trail if anyone wants or needs to bring some special stuff. Have you done this walk up Hazel as an overnighter?  It has been my experience that what is a six hour walk with a fly rod is a whole different critter than hiking in with a backpack, tent, etc.  At any rate, I’m in if the sceduling can be worked out.  Any idea what the actual mileage is? btw…i’m still wet-wading in october… neoprenes seem a bit much for carolina fall fishing. I agree about the neoprenes but my one experience fishing with you in October suggests that wading wet could be a bit iffy……it’s o.k. if you’re naturally numb from the waist down but for those of us who are of the neck up persuasion it would come down to a choice between walking on our hands or perhaps wearing lightweights.      :) Wolfgang

Response:

"Got Speed Bumps?" no speed bumps so far…but i’ve only been up about 3 miles.  i’ve been told wayno’s had the park rangers drive him up the road, so maybe he can describe upper hazel. i believe you could do it no problem.  didn’t you go up a ways when wayno hit his big rainbow?

I know we went past the "town", maybe a mile or two up the road from there. It wasn’t a hard hike up to wherever we ended up. otoh, we nearly had to have a certain Boy Lawyer airlifted out of there after he caught a WAY-too-big-for-Hazel-Creek rainbow… /daytripper (You think he had the Rangers "salt" the creek for ‘im, too?

Response:

…nothing like a week in graham county to confirm i’ve wasted the better part of my life down here in the crowded flatlands of coastal nc… a situation i hope to correct in the next year or two. anyway, it was an incredible week of fiSSSSHing 5 of my favorite streams in nc, S[******], S[nowbird], S[assafrass], S[anteetlah], and H[azel], briefly recounted as follows: Saturday – rachel and i arrived at the snowbird house, bought some groceries, and settled in… well, sorta.  i was busy getting the fishing stuff settled on the table, rachel did the practical stuff – unpacked clothes and groceries. just before dark (it didn’t get dark until after 9), i walked the 10 feet to the stream out back and fished the two runs that always yield a fish or two – yup, still happenin! two rainbows on an ehc…one was the typical 8 incher caught in the deeper cut of the main current where wolfgang snapped a picture or two of me in   an evening stupor last october; the other was a nice 12 inches or more, caught by "bowling" the fly downstream about 50 feet around the bend of a deeper, quiet pool. satisfied the week was properly started, i ambled outta the stream, back up the gentle bank to a well-prepared spaghetti dinner and a chilly beer. thus began my week’s adventure of solitary fishing in some of the best streams in the smokies  …         SUNDAY – fished S.[******], the stream that yielded those 3 big rainbows last october.  arrived around 9 am, parked in the same place as last year.  the road was a bit worse, but manageable.  this was my day of paying proper devotion and respect – so, after humbly thanking all the spirits and deities, and making a silent oath not to break that commandment about the lord’s name, a kinder, gentler, easier-goin jeff set out up the road to the spot wally and i stopped in our october frenzy, the soul-filling gift of zimbo’s 6′ bamboo rod & the abandoned socks of wolfgang at the ready for a full day in the stream. didn’t see or hear another person the entire day.  S[******]is at about 3000 feet elevation at this point, and it’s headwaters are near a bald which is above 5000 feet. getting to it requires a drive up a steep, narrow grade of dirt and rocks for a mile or so until the road becomes unmanageable with a vehicle… the upper stretch is a rutted, rocky path only 4-wheelers can traverse safely.   from the point i entered the stream, until the pool i quit, with the exception of one pocket, i either caught a fish or had one rise to the fly. except for several brookies, all were rainbows of the usual size with a few approaching or just at ten inches.   size 14 and 16 ehc and parachute adams never failed to attract a fish. after a while, i started playing around with various dry flies just to see what would happen – color didn’t matter, but the size did. though they’d come up and look at the #12 stimulator, i guess it just looked a bit too big to tangle with, or it was easier to distinguish as a phony bug…i don’t know. but switch off to a smaller fly and no problem.  THE HIGHLIGHT – near the close of the day, once the leader had gotten cut back from all the fly changing, as a lark i tied on a flashy green and black bugger i had acquired from a mail order outfit in england a few years ago. i was at one of the deeper pools with a nice froth of white water formed by the stream falling from the pool above. casually tossed the bugger into the froth, let it sink a bit, twitched it back towards me and, damn…what’s this…quite a different feel… jeezusfuckingchri…(ok, i confess… i never was too good at keeping that particular commandment)… it was an honest 12" brookie (spec)- the biggest wild nc brook trout i’ve ever caught! fat, heavy, and healthy looking. what a day!  fellas, seeing a 12" spec in nc is an experience akin to seein pj in a tuxedo dancin a waltz at the terpsichorean ball in raleigh. … unique, if ya get my drift. …i continued up a few more pools with the bugger, catching rainbows, until i pulled out around 5 pm, then walked up the road for 30 minutes or so just exploring a bit…yup, there’s still a lot of water left for the next trip. [cont.]

Response:

Marvelous TR, Jeff. Hope you don’t keep us waiting too long for the next installment in the series! I’m sitting here in sultry Missouri reading your TR and listening to a segment on CBS Sunday Morning about the rhododendrons blooming in the appalachians. In fact, they juxtaposed that segment with a segment about subway musicians in New York. My GPS tells me that it’s 430 miles to my favorite spot on Snowbird. But my bank account tells me the office is a hell of a lot closer. Congratulations on having a wife who puts up with your fishing!! Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …nothing like a week in graham county to confirm i’ve wasted the better part of my life down here in the crowded flatlands of coastal nc… a situation i hope to correct in the next year or two. anyway, it was an incredible week of fiSSSSHing 5 of my favorite streams in nc, S[******], S[nowbird], S[assafrass], S[anteetlah], and H[azel], briefly recounted as follows: Saturday – rachel and i arrived at the snowbird house, bought some groceries, and settled in… well, sorta.  i was busy getting the fishing stuff settled on the table, rachel did the practical stuff – unpacked clothes and groceries. just before dark (it didn’t get dark until after 9), i walked the 10 feet to the stream out back and fished the two runs that always yield a fish or two – yup, still happenin! two rainbows on an ehc…one was the typical 8 incher caught in the deeper cut of the main current where wolfgang snapped a picture or two of me in   an evening stupor last october; the other was a nice 12 inches or more, caught by "bowling" the fly downstream about 50 feet around the bend of a deeper, quiet pool. satisfied the week was properly started, i ambled outta the stream, back up the gentle bank to a well-prepared spaghetti dinner and a chilly beer. thus began my week’s adventure of solitary fishing in some of the best streams in the smokies  … SUNDAY – fished S.[******], the stream that yielded those 3 big rainbows last october.  arrived around 9 am, parked in the same place as last year.  the road was a bit worse, but manageable.  this was my day of paying proper devotion and respect – so, after humbly thanking all the spirits and deities, and making a silent oath not to break that commandment about the lord’s name, a kinder, gentler, easier-goin jeff set out up the road to the spot wally and i stopped in our october frenzy, the soul-filling gift of zimbo’s 6′ bamboo rod & the abandoned socks of wolfgang at the ready for a full day in the stream. didn’t see or hear another person the entire day.  S[******]is at about 3000 feet elevation at this point, and it’s headwaters are near a bald which is above 5000 feet. getting to it requires a drive up a steep, narrow grade of dirt and rocks for a mile or so until the road becomes unmanageable with a vehicle… the upper stretch is a rutted, rocky path only 4-wheelers can traverse safely.   from the point i entered the stream, until the pool i quit, with the exception of one pocket, i either caught a fish or had one rise to the fly. except for several brookies, all were rainbows of the usual size with a few approaching or just at ten inches.   size 14 and 16 ehc and parachute adams never failed to attract a fish. after a while, i started playing around with various dry flies just to see what would happen – color didn’t matter, but the size did. though they’d come up and look at the #12 stimulator, i guess it just looked a bit too big to tangle with, or it was easier to distinguish as a phony bug…i don’t know. but switch off to a smaller fly and no problem.  THE HIGHLIGHT – near the close of the day, once the leader had gotten cut back from all the fly changing, as a lark i tied on a flashy green and black bugger i had acquired from a mail order outfit in england a few years ago. i was at one of the deeper pools with a nice froth of white water formed by the stream falling from the pool above. casually tossed the bugger into the froth, let it sink a bit, twitched it back towards me and, damn…what’s this…quite a different feel… jeezusfuckingchri…(ok, i confess… i never was too good at keeping that particular commandment)… it was an honest 12" brookie (spec)- the biggest wild nc brook trout i’ve ever caught! fat, heavy, and healthy looking. what a day!  fellas, seeing a 12" spec in nc is an experience akin to seein pj in a tuxedo dancin a waltz at the terpsichorean ball in raleigh. … unique, if ya get my drift. …i continued up a few more pools with the bugger, catching rainbows, until i pulled out around 5 pm, then walked up the road for 30 minutes or so just exploring a bit…yup, there’s still a lot of water left for the next trip. [cont.]

Response:

… it was an honest 12" brookie (spec)- the biggest wild nc brook trout i’ve ever caught! fat, heavy, and healthy looking. what a day!

Not too shabby at all

Response:

…well, this appears to be the beginnings of yet another fine idea. i suggest you take charge of it, establish some proposed dates, and we’ll set up a new thread to see what develops. if zimbo is still hereabouts, perhaps he’ll post the dates of his gathering – i’m gonna be in the smokies the week of oct 19-26th with rachel – the 21st is her birthday. i can probably manage a 3-day camping trip either before that week or at the latter part of that week, or i can take a 4 day weekend thursday-sunday at another time. the park service provides some carts we can use to roll supplies up the trail if anyone wants or needs to bring some special stuff.

Have you done this walk up Hazel as an overnighter?  It has been my experience that what is a six hour walk with a fly rod is a whole different critter than hiking in with a backpack, tent, etc.  At any rate, I’m in if the sceduling can be worked out.  Any idea what the actual mileage is? btw…i’m still wet-wading in october… neoprenes seem a bit much for carolina fall fishing.

I agree about the neoprenes but my one experience fishing with you in October suggests that wading wet could be a bit iffy……it’s o.k. if you’re naturally numb from the waist down but for those of us who are of the neck up persuasion it would come down to a choice between walking on our hands or perhaps wearing lightweights.      :) Wolfgang

Response:

Naw – that coven is down close to Stecoah.  Sometimes it meets in Bryson City depending on which politician is in town. This is way the hell too far in the boondocks.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  i’m thinking – we need to hike and camp near the cascade falls on hazel creek…who knows what a placid soul might discover up there. anyone interested? i hear tell that there’s a unsavory rattlersnake worshippin’ coven up in those parts…. –waldo d;^)

Response:

Naw – that coven is down close to Stecoah.  Sometimes it meets in Bryson City depending on which politician is in town. This is way the hell too far in the boondocks.

naaaahh bob, yer thinkin’ ufduh dolly parton mandolin strummin’ coppahead group that meets at tooties every udduh toosday. weird group, dancin widda coppaheads to 9-5… weird stuff but well worth da show if ya can drop in on toosday evenins…. whatever da hell ya do…. don’t go into the kitchen….bad, really bad mojo. duh group way up on hazel, well, bone creek pickahs. days banjo and jug tootin’ fellahs…… meanest dirty rotten sob’s you’d ever wanna come across….. hell, ask wayno, he’ll tell ya  d;^) –waldo, workin’ way too late….

Response:

Hell, Waldo, I don’t know if you’re thinking of the last Snowbird ROFF clave in the second case, or a stockholders meeting here, in the first case, both of which I missed but both of which sound familiar based on reports from observers . . .

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Naw – that coven is down close to Stecoah.  Sometimes it meets in Bryson City depending on which politician is in town. This is way the hell too far in the boondocks. naaaahh bob, yer thinkin’ ufduh dolly parton mandolin strummin’ coppahead group that meets at tooties every udduh toosday. weird group, dancin widda coppaheads to 9-5… weird stuff but well worth da show if ya can drop in on toosday evenins…. whatever da hell ya do…. don’t go into the kitchen….bad, really bad mojo. duh group way up on hazel, well, bone creek pickahs. days banjo and jug tootin’ fellahs…… meanest dirty rotten sob’s you’d ever wanna come across….. hell, ask wayno, he’ll tell ya  d;^) –waldo, workin’ way too late….

Response:

Never one to flinch from doing my duty for God and Country. October would be a fine time – even late October. If we could tie it in with Zimbo’s soiree that would be great. I feel like I made a three-day trip up Hazel in 2 days early in May. A six-hour walk up and a five-hour walk down didn’t leave much fishing time in two days. I’d agree three days is the minimum unless you really groove on walking. Also, if one has to walk five miles while wearing neoprenes, it’s more comfortable in October than in May. And by late October the bears should be doing their final snacking before settling in for the winter! Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – as you’ve probably heard, they’ve opened portions of hazel that have been closed to all fishing for 25 years – as an experiment to see if the fisherman actually affects the brook trout population in any meaningful way.  i believe it is our duty to participate in this grand experiment … but, it will require at least 3 days.  the hike in will be 6 hours at least…  if there’s any interest, it’s time to start planning.  i don’t know who is going where in october – zimbo floated a blue ridge gathering, i’ll be in the smokies with rachel the week of oct. 20. anyway, let me know if you’ve got a preference as far as dates and we’ll see what develops. jeff Jeff – I’d like to join up on such an expedition if it was planned well in advance. It’s an all-day drive for me, like it probably is for you. I would make a several-day trip of it and combine two or three days on Hazel with some other fishing – maybe on the Tellico river downhill from McDaniel Bald or on one of the creeks in the Snowbird/Santeetlah area. Bob //snip// i’m thinking – we need to hike and camp near the cascade falls on hazel creek…who knows what a placid soul might discover up there. anyone interested? jeff

Response:

…well, this appears to be the beginnings of yet another fine idea. i suggest you take charge of it, establish some proposed dates, and we’ll set up a new thread to see what develops. if zimbo is still hereabouts, perhaps he’ll post the dates of his gathering – i’m gonna be in the smokies the week of oct 19-26th with rachel – the 21st is her birthday. i can probably manage a 3-day camping trip either before that week or at the latter part of that week, or i can take a 4 day weekend thursday-sunday at another time. the park service provides some carts we can use to roll supplies up the trail if anyone wants or needs to bring some special stuff. btw…i’m still wet-wading in october… neoprenes seem a bit much for carolina fall fishing. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Never one to flinch from doing my duty for God and Country. October would be a fine time – even late October. If we could tie it in with Zimbo’s soiree that would be great. I feel like I made a three-day trip up Hazel in 2 days early in May. A six-hour walk up and a five-hour walk down didn’t leave much fishing time in two days. I’d agree three days is the minimum unless you really groove on walking. Also, if one has to walk five miles while wearing neoprenes, it’s more comfortable in October than in May. And by late October the bears should be doing their final snacking before settling in for the winter! Bob as you’ve probably heard, they’ve opened portions of hazel that have been closed to all fishing for 25 years – as an experiment to see if the fisherman actually affects the brook trout population in any meaningful way.  i believe it is our duty to participate in this grand experiment … but, it will require at least 3 days.  the hike in will be 6 hours at least…  if there’s any interest, it’s time to start planning.  i don’t know who is going where in october – zimbo floated a blue ridge gathering, i’ll be in the smokies with rachel the week of oct. 20. anyway, let me know if you’ve got a preference as far as dates and we’ll see what develops. jeff Jeff – I’d like to join up on such an expedition if it was planned well in advance. It’s an all-day drive for me, like it probably is for you. I would make a several-day trip of it and combine two or three days on Hazel with some other fishing – maybe on the Tellico river downhill from McDaniel Bald or on one of the creeks in the Snowbird/Santeetlah area. Bob //snip// i’m thinking – we need to hike and camp near the cascade falls on hazel creek…who knows what a placid soul might discover up there. anyone interested? jeff

Response:

Good stuff Jeff. That certain Southern Style creeps in to all your writing. When you return from the HF you’ll be changed slightly bruce h

Response:

Good stuff Jeff. That certain Southern Style creeps in to all your writing. When you return from the HF you’ll be changed slightly

Yep, before you know it, you will be wearing big hats and cowboy boots, and have a three inch circle worn into your ass pocket by the Cope tin.  You will be driving a full- size American pickup truck with a gun rack and a Labrador retriever (or two) in back, and you won’t even unhitch the boat trailer to go to the grocery store.  Where, btw, you will be buying Rainier beer and beef, not chardonnay and green vegetables.  Your favorite rod will be a nine foot six or seven weight graphite, not the 6 foot bamboo.  Your fly vest will contain as many Woolly Buggers as anything else, and you will wear your waders into even the best restaurants. You will bitch about how the out-of-staters are ruining everything, even though you were one recently.  You will have NRA stickers on your truck, and will vote Republican religiously, even if the GOP candidate is a drooling idiot. The trout you catch will average 18 inches no matter how big they really were.  You will start conversations with "Cold enough for you?" "Hot enough for you?" "Seen any salmonflies yet?" or "Got your elk yet?" depending on the season. I could keep this up all day. Just remember to get some 130 gr. bullets for your .270, and eat the parsley, because it’s the only vegetable you’re getting. Kevin, part-time Montanan

Response:

Great, well written report Jeff damn…what’s this…quite a different feel… jeezusfuckingchri…(ok, i confess… i never was too good at keeping that particular commandment)… it was an honest 12" brookie (spec)- the biggest wild nc brook trout i’ve ever caught! fat, heavy, and healthy looking. what a day!  fellas, seeing a 12" spec in nc is an experience

Congrats, beautiful fish! It may be the best Brookie you ever catch in NC! Willi

Response:

When you return from the HF you’ll be changed slightly bruce h

… um…, uh oh. … not sure i catch yer drift there, pardner.   trust that ain’t wayno-speak…unless, of course, "bruiser" is the descriptive pseudonym for a henry’s fork working lady, in which case, i bruise quite easily.  <g however, just from looking at rw’s photos and some of the web sites for hf, i’m feeling a metamorphosis coming on already. looking forward to it all… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Congrats, beautiful fish! It may be the best Brookie you ever catch in NC!

thanks…easily the "best" so far, although the ones wolfgang and i made acquaintance with up at the middle falls pool last october were pretty spec-tacular. … still, i plan to keep hunting for that next best one as long as i’m upright and forward moving. i’m thinking – we need to hike and camp near the cascade falls on hazel creek…who knows what a placid soul might discover up there. anyone interested? jeff

Response:

Kevin wrote.Yep, before you know it. snip. Priceless…Thanks Kevin. Big Dale

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Congrats, beautiful fish! It may be the best Brookie you ever catch in NC! thanks…easily the "best" so far, although the ones wolfgang and i made acquaintance with up at the middle falls pool last october were pretty spec-tacular. … still, i plan to keep hunting for that next best one as long as i’m upright and forward moving. i’m thinking – we need to hike and camp near the cascade falls on hazel creek…who knows what a placid soul might discover up there. anyone interested? jeff

Does sound like a beautiful fish alright – I bet there’ll be a few more buggers and streamers in your future. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Jeff – I’d like to join up on such an expedition if it was planned well in advance. It’s an all-day drive for me, like it probably is for you. I would make a several-day trip of it and combine two or three days on Hazel with some other fishing – maybe on the Tellico river downhill from McDaniel Bald or on one of the creeks in the Snowbird/Santeetlah area. Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – //snip//  i’m thinking – we need to hike and camp near the cascade falls on hazel creek…who knows what a placid soul might discover up there. anyone interested? jeff

Response:

 i’m thinking – we need to hike and camp near the cascade falls on hazel creek…who knows what a placid soul might discover up there. anyone interested?

i hear tell that there’s a unsavory rattlersnake worshippin’ coven up in those parts…. –waldo d;^)

Response:

as you’ve probably heard, they’ve opened portions of hazel that have been closed to all fishing for 25 years – as an experiment to see if the fisherman actually affects the brook trout population in any meaningful way.  i believe it is our duty to participate in this grand experiment … but, it will require at least 3 days.  the hike in will be 6 hours at least…  if there’s any interest, it’s time to start planning.  i don’t know who is going where in october – zimbo floated a blue ridge gathering, i’ll be in the smokies with rachel the week of oct. 20. anyway, let me know if you’ve got a preference as far as dates and we’ll see what develops. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff – I’d like to join up on such an expedition if it was planned well in advance. It’s an all-day drive for me, like it probably is for you. I would make a several-day trip of it and combine two or three days on Hazel with some other fishing – maybe on the Tellico river downhill from McDaniel Bald or on one of the creeks in the Snowbird/Santeetlah area. Bob //snip// i’m thinking – we need to hike and camp near the cascade falls on hazel creek…who knows what a placid soul might discover up there. anyone interested? jeff

Response:

Question:

Chris,    It is difficult to tail a member of the trout family because their tail is not rigid.  Members of the salmon family are easy to tail. Ernie for all my advice, you should have seen me in practice this morning <G.  had a difficult time tailing a fish and when i finally did, it broke me off right there and shot away.  the way things go sometimes.

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – chris

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Landing steelhead with a double-handed rod has always troubled me. ..

Just break the rod in half – always works for me! RalphH

Response:

I have found that just a plain pair of wool glove allows you to grip the fish’s tail much easier.  Hope this is of help. Kevin

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Chris,    It is difficult to tail a member of the trout family because their tail is not rigid.  Members of the salmon family are easy to tail. Ernie

well, we’ll have to agree to disagree.  i find steelhead much easier to tail than some of the pacific salmon, although they are in the same family as trout and steelhead, maybe you meant the salmo genus. btw, another way to get a handle on the fish is to first grab the leader… yes, sometimes you get cuts on your fingers from doing it.  of course, with all the benfits of a 2-handed rod, landing fish on them without beaching them is one of the drawbacks. chris

Response:

I wouldn’t worry about tailing steelhead I’ve found that they roll on their side and don’t trash. If you back out of the water and lay your rod down and keep tension on the line you can get a hold of the tail and then get your fly out.It’s much easier to release a steelhead than a small trout I haven’t seen anything used to tail a steelhead.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Landing steelhead with a double-handed rod has always troubled me. I have tried to tail them, but my hand is often too small and/or weak to do so. Besides, it seems to take too much time to sufficiently weaken them before trying to tail them. I don’t want to exaust them. So I tend to force the issue as quickly as possible and try to beach them as soon as possible. Most of the time I have been successful in doing so although I have lost a few feisty ones that seemed to hate to touch the beach. I don’t mind losing some; I let all of them go any way afterwards. However, I wonder if beaching them might hurt them. Does anyone have any factual information regarding beaching and health of relatively large fish? Could anyone give me lessons about how to tail them? As much as I love to hook them, I would like to release them safely. Shinji on the Sky well, i don’t think it’s good for a big fish to flop around on rocks and sand, you really want to keep the fish in the water and not have the rocks and sand remove the fish’s slime layer or scales.  i haven’t seen any studies on it, but i believe all info on releasing fish recommends not bringing the fish out of water. what i do is make sure i have some loose line off the reel so that once i tail the fish i can illeviate the line pressure so i don’t break the rod.  i haven’t found that it takes much more time to tire a steelhead out to tail it than to beach it.  if it’s a problem with your hands, i think there are some tailing devices out there… most seem to be fairly long handled, but i’m sure you could cut back the handle.  i know cabelas sells them.  you could also make sure to fish with someone else, who can tail your fish and vice-versa, but that’ll probably decrease fishing days if you must have a partner.  look into some sort of tailing device if you can’t use your hands, because it is better for the fish you plan on releasing. chris

Response:

for all my advice, you should have seen me in practice this morning <G.  had a difficult time tailing a fish and when i finally did, it broke me off right there and shot away.  the way things go sometimes. i agree that it’s not that big of a deal to lose a fish once you’ve touched the leader or made a grab for the tail… but it truly is nice to get ahold of a steelhead every once in awhile just to get a real good look at one and technically land a steelhead <G. chris

Heartily I agree. That’s why I was trying to beach them. I’d like to thank and say good-bye to them in a proper manner. Shinji on the Sky

Response:

______  I always just slip my free under the fish and lift just a little without taking the fish out of the water and I turn it (being on the edge of the river now) into what current there may be.  Usually, I can slip the hook out very easily.  When I want the fish to simply swim off, I lower its weight back off my hand and they will almost surely swim off casually rather then darting off, which confirms the calming affect lifting a fish just a little has on them while still letting them stay in the water. This works especially well when using barbless hooks because they come out much easier without upsetting a fish as will most barbed hooks will.  Barbed hooks go in easy but come out with more difficulty unless you pay attention to the angle of the little slit one should try to back such hooks out.  Barbed hooks are easier to remove with a large pair of forceps.  A secret I use is to use a pair of dikes.  Powerful cutting and pointed pliers that I can snip the hook in half (large hooks with large barbs) just behind the barb if its all the way through.  The barb comes out instantly and the fish is free. Yes, it cost me a fly but when you’ve caught a 12 pound or large Steelhead, the cost of a fly you’ve tied yourself is a small price to pay for such great entertainment.  It always amazes me when watching television fishing shows the great amounts of effort the ‘Pros’ will go to to save a fly at the greater expense and stress and damage to the fish.   Hope these suggestions are somewhat useful gentlemen. Mr. G. — http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

Chris,   It is difficult to tail a member of the trout family because their tail is not rigid.  Members of the salmon family are easy to tail.

ARRGH! It’s that Salmonid Taxonomy problem again. Trouts and salmons are all in the family Salmonidae. One of the major genera with in that family is _Salmo_, which includes the Atlantic Salmon and the Brown Trout. Another major family is _Onchorynchus_, which includes the Cutthroat, Rainbow, Golden, Gila, Apache trout and all of the Pacific salmons (pink, king, coho, et cetera). The Lake and Brook Trout are in yet two more genera. (Brookies are technically chars, but I still like them anyway. They’ve got spirit.) At any rate, there is no "trout family" that is distinct from the "salmon family." The criterion that I use is based upon tracing evolutionary relationships. The other criterion may be based upon reproductive migrations or on freshwater vs. saltwater, which leaves us screwed in describing sea-run Cutts or Browns or Steelhead. (Genetically, Steelhead are Rainbows. Bigger and migratory, but rainbows none the less.) Opt out == cop-out. What’s so hard to understand?

Response:

The WDFW gives away a nifty little device at most of the sportsmens shows that is simply a dowel with a plate hook on the end of it. I think they even had directions on how to make them in the regs pamphlet. If you were to make one of these short enough to put in your vest you wouldn’t even have to touch the fish. Simply hook the line with the tool and slide the tool to the fishes mouth. Lift the tool up and the fish unhooks itself. It’s the same principle as the "CatchemRelease" tool you spend $20 on (I have one I use for trout and love it!).  It’s one of the best devices for fishing I have found. It’s simple and better yet it works! Gary

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Landing steelhead with a double-handed rod has always troubled me. I have tried to tail them, but my hand is often too small and/or weak to do so. Besides, it seems to take too much time to sufficiently weaken them before trying to tail them. I don’t want to exaust them. So I tend to force the issue as quickly as possible and try to beach them as soon as possible. Most of the time I have been successful in doing so although I have lost a few feisty ones that seemed to hate to touch the beach. I don’t mind losing some; I let all of them go any way afterwards. However, I wonder if beaching them might hurt them. Does anyone have any factual information regarding beaching and health of relatively large fish? Could anyone give me lessons about how to tail them? As much as I love to hook them, I would like to release them safely. Shinji on the Sky

well, i don’t think it’s good for a big fish to flop around on rocks and sand, you really want to keep the fish in the water and not have the rocks and sand remove the fish’s slime layer or scales.  i haven’t seen any studies on it, but i believe all info on releasing fish recommends not bringing the fish out of water. what i do is make sure i have some loose line off the reel so that once i tail the fish i can illeviate the line pressure so i don’t break the rod.  i haven’t found that it takes much more time to tire a steelhead out to tail it than to beach it.  if it’s a problem with your hands, i think there are some tailing devices out there… most seem to be fairly long handled, but i’m sure you could cut back the handle.  i know cabelas sells them.  you could also make sure to fish with someone else, who can tail your fish and vice-versa, but that’ll probably decrease fishing days if you must have a partner.  look into some sort of tailing device if you can’t use your hands, because it is better for the fish you plan on releasing. chris

Response:

Landing steelhead with a double-handed rod has always troubled me. I have tried to tail them, but my hand is often too small and/or weak to do so. Besides, it seems to take too much time to sufficiently weaken them before trying to tail them. I don’t want to exaust them. So I tend to force the issue as quickly as possible and try to beach them as soon as possible. Most of the time I have been successful in doing so although I have lost a few feisty ones that seemed to hate to touch the beach. I don’t mind losing some; I let all of them go any way afterwards. However, I wonder if beaching them might hurt them. Does anyone have any factual information regarding beaching and health of relatively large fish? Could anyone give me lessons about how to tail them? As much as I love to hook them, I would like to release them safely. Shinji on the Sky

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well, i don’t think it’s good for a big fish to flop around on rocks and sand, you really want to keep the fish in the water and not have the rocks and sand remove the fish’s slime layer or scales.  i haven’t seen any studies on it, but i believe all info on releasing fish recommends not bringing the fish out of water. what i do is make sure i have some loose line off the reel so that once i tail the fish i can illeviate the line pressure so i don’t break the rod.  i haven’t found that it takes much more time to tire a steelhead out to tail it than to beach it.  if it’s a problem with your hands, i think there are some tailing devices out there… most seem to be fairly long handled, but i’m sure you could cut back the handle.  i know cabelas sells them.  you could also make sure to fish with someone else, who can tail your fish and vice-versa, but that’ll probably decrease fishing days if you must have a partner.  look into some sort of tailing device if you can’t use your hands, because it is better for the fish you plan on releasing. chris

Thanks. Reading your posting, I realize what a fool I was. Why do I have to worry about losing fish while trying to tail them? After all, I am tailing them in order to release them! Shinji on the Sky

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – well, i don’t think it’s good for a big fish to flop around on rocks and sand, you really want to keep the fish in the water and not have the rocks and sand remove the fish’s slime layer or scales.  i haven’t seen any studies on it, but i believe all info on releasing fish recommends not bringing the fish out of water. what i do is make sure i have some loose line off the reel so that once i tail the fish i can illeviate the line pressure so i don’t break the rod.  i haven’t found that it takes much more time to tire a steelhead out to tail it than to beach it.  if it’s a problem with your hands, i think there are some tailing devices out there… most seem to be fairly long handled, but i’m sure you could cut back the handle.  i know cabelas sells them.  you could also make sure to fish with someone else, who can tail your fish and vice-versa, but that’ll probably decrease fishing days if you must have a partner.  look into some sort of tailing device if you can’t use your hands, because it is better for the fish you plan on releasing. chris Thanks. Reading your posting, I realize what a fool I was. Why do I have to worry about losing fish while trying to tail them? After all, I am tailing them in order to release them! Shinji on the Sky

for all my advice, you should have seen me in practice this morning <G.  had a difficult time tailing a fish and when i finally did, it broke me off right there and shot away.  the way things go sometimes. i agree that it’s not that big of a deal to lose a fish once you’ve touched the leader or made a grab for the tail… but it truly is nice to get ahold of a steelhead every once in awhile just to get a real good look at one and technically land a steelhead <G. chris

Response:

Question:

Does anyone have info re: the upcoming fly expo in Lisle.  I know that it’s sponsored by the Dupage River Fly Tyers (DRIFT) but am wondering if there will be industry vendors present.  Or, is it a clinic featuring DRIFT members? Thanks, Dave Before you buy.

Response:

All I know is that its at the Hyatt on Jan 15th.  I’m going because there isn’t anything for flyfishermen at the Rosemont fishing show.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have info re: the upcoming fly expo in Lisle.  I know that it’s sponsored by the Dupage River Fly Tyers (DRIFT) but am wondering if there will be industry vendors present.  Or, is it a clinic featuring DRIFT members? Thanks, Dave Before you buy.

Response:

I heard from two people that last year’s show at Oak Brook was a huge flop. I’m not sure if the Lisle show is replacing the Oak Brook show.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All I know is that its at the Hyatt on Jan 15th.  I’m going because there isn’t anything for flyfishermen at the Rosemont fishing show. Is that the show that they usually have in Oak Brook? Joel Axelrad

Response:

Here’s the url: http://www.steelheadsite.com/mwff_expo.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – All I know is that its at the Hyatt on Jan 15th.  I’m going because there isn’t anything for flyfishermen at the Rosemont fishing show. Is that the show that they usually have in Oak Brook? Joel Axelrad

Response:

All I know is that its at the Hyatt on Jan 15th.  I’m going because there isn’t anything for flyfishermen at the Rosemont fishing show.

Is that the show that they usually have in Oak Brook? Joel Axelrad

Response:

Question:

_______ I spent so much money today . . . buying the final Bastard Assembly Line Items, I don’t know how MUCH the Certified Check was for, but just the ink on it weighted 3 pounds.  (From what Gladys says)  The postage to send it Priority Mail cost her $22! I do know this.  Bastards are going to be worth every bit of $1800 – $2400 dollars right out of the starting blocks.  That I’m crazy enough to offer them for $300 as an introductory challenge to the world of fly fishing, does NOT mean I’m forced to hold these prices forever. Why don’t you guys move the conclave to here and help me build your fly rods? Today it is a steady, cold, spring rain.  My fax machine blew up.  Had to buy a new one.  Just now finished hooking it up. This was AFTER we mailed that BIG check. See your Grand American & Bastard Updates.  Order a reel with that Bastard Beauty that you have coming.  You only live once.  This is what a lot of you are doing. Visit: http://www.gink.com I’m looking for a good golf ball wax for this one golf ball I have.  Any suggestions Walt?  It is, by the way, beginning to look its age.  I’ve only played 112 rounds of golf with it.  Wayne will make it 113 which will be his spook number.  Possibly we should write a book about this one.  "How to Play With One Ball," by F. Burywood?  Forward by:  Wayne Harrison? Mr. G.

Response:

_______ I spe I’m looking for a good golf ball wax for this one golf ball I have.  Any suggestions Walt?  It is, by the way, beginning to look its age.  I’ve only played 112 rounds of golf with it.  Wayne will make it 113 which will be his spook number.  Possibly we should write a book about this one.  "How to Play With One Ball," by F. Burywood?  Forward by:  Wayne Harrison? Mr. G.

 George…you’re askin the wrong guy. I lose more damn balls than a schizoid squirel loses nuts. Hell, last time out I lost 18 damn balls in one round. I’d smack my tee shot and lose sight of the dang thing. After ’bout 4 hours of this crap I headed for the bar.  About 15 minutes later this guy walked in with his wife and gave me my damn 18 titleists back. He said, it’s proper golf ettiquette to remove the ball from the holes after you sink ‘em. Go figure. Waldo —          The Blue Ridge Book Gallery      P.O. Box 5112  Banner Elk, NC 28604       http://www.mercury.net/~wgwinter to view our ongoing auctions at Ebay, click below… http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=blue…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _______ I spe I’m looking for a good golf ball wax for this one golf ball I have.  Any suggestions Walt?  It is, by the way, beginning to look its age.  I’ve only played 112 rounds of golf with it.  Wayne will make it 113 which will be his spook number.  Possibly we should write a book about this one.  "How to Play With One Ball," by F. Burywood?  Forward by:  Wayne Harrison? Mr. G.  George…you’re askin the wrong guy. I lose more damn balls than a schizoid squirel loses nuts. Hell, last time out I lost 18 damn balls in one round. I’d smack my tee shot and lose sight of the dang thing. After ’bout 4 hours of this crap I headed for the bar.  About 15 minutes later this guy walked in with his wife and gave me my damn 18 titleists back. He said, it’s proper golf ettiquette to remove the ball from the holes after you sink ‘em. Go figure. Waldo

Mr.  G.

Response:

Question:

I just moved to San Francisco and am looking for good streams for fly fishing.  Can someone tell me what’s the closest stream(s) to San Francisco city that offers good flyfishing? Thanks in advance Y CHEN —

Response:

I just moved to San Francisco and am looking for good streams for fly fishing.  Can someone tell me what’s the closest stream(s) to San Francisco city that offers good flyfishing? Thanks in advance Y CHEN

  The Madison HM

Response:

Most of the good trout streams are 150 miles away. — Ernie Harrison Want something to do? Go to:  http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just moved to San Francisco and am looking for good streams for fly fishing.  Can someone tell me what’s the closest stream(s) to San Francisco city that offers good flyfishing? Thanks in advance Y CHEN —

Response:

Most streams are closed this time of year. If you want to fish now, though, you can try Putah Creek below Lake Berryessa. Because of its proximity to the Bay Area, it can get crowded – especially on weekends. For good northern California fishing reports, check www.fishfirst.com – updated every two weeks. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Most of the good trout streams are 150 miles away. — Ernie Harrison Want something to do? Go to:  http://users.ccnet.com/~emh I just moved to San Francisco and am looking for good streams for fly fishing.  Can someone tell me what’s the closest stream(s) to San Francisco city that offers good flyfishing? Thanks in advance Y CHEN —

Response:

The best and closest I’ve found so far are Putah Creek and The Lower Yuba both of which are open this time of year.  I went to the Lower Yuba for the first time this past spring and it was a lot of fun. (Watch out for Rattle Snakes and Poison Oak though.  In fact, you should watch out for Poison Oak just about everywhere you fish in Northern CA.)  Good luck. Brian

Response:

Question:

Jim Do you have another tune or will you carry on repeating the same quote ad infinitum?? (Latin, save you looking it up!). — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Catch some brookies and clean them, removing the heads. That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. Moe, please explain how you an AR-loon like yourself can advocate eating fish while at the same time supporting the view that that fish have "rights". You cannot have it both ways.

Response:

Nah, it’s the same thing that Tim does (or did).  Same thing time after time.  Apparently there’s some bad blood between the two. Although I think it’s a very good question.  The two statements do seem to be at odds with each other. Later,      - Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jim Do you have another tune or will you carry on repeating the same quote ad infinitum?? (Latin, save you looking it up!). — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email) Catch some brookies and clean them, removing the heads. That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. Moe, please explain how you an AR-loon like yourself can advocate eating fish while at the same time supporting the view that that fish have "rights". You cannot have it both ways.

Response:

Me to fish: "You have the right to live. You have the right to try to eat my flies. You have the right to try to escape. You have the right to be released sometimes. You have the right to be my meal." "Some mornings I wonder if it was worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."  – E. Philips

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Catch some brookies and clean them, removing the heads. That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. Moe, please explain how you an AR-loon like yourself can advocate eating fish while at the same time supporting the view that that fish have "rights". You cannot have it both ways.

Hey Powlesland Ever hear of the food chain? your an imbecilic dweeb….. –Walt

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Catch some brookies and clean them, removing the heads. That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. Moe, please explain how you an AR-loon like yourself can advocate eating fish while at the same time supporting the view that that fish have "rights". You cannot have it both ways. Hey Powlesland Ever hear of the food chain? your an imbecilic dweeb…..

Walt, I think you missed his point…and lighten up.      - Ken — Not speaking for anyone but myself

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.   Take some Spam and put the trout back for next time. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

1. Lite a fire 2. Fill gut cavity with small amount of brown sugar and salt 3. Wrap fish in foil 4. Put wrapped fish in embers and wait ten minutes 5. Have cigarette and beer 6. EAT

Response:

Take some Spam and put the trout back for next time. Lloyd Fortney

Another argument for cannibalism. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Response:

I hope thats humor, because I thought it funny. Who in the hell would pass up Trout for dinner to eat a can of "processed" meat? Love them Trout,

Spam (the national food of Hawaii, no joke) is a damned good backup if the fish aren’t on the bite…it will sustain you AND make you try a little harder the next day… — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

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In all seriousness… If you’re backpacking, all you’ll need is to take an empty spice container and whup up some TBone’s Backpacking Spice (80% salt, 10% pepper, 9% Onion Powder, 1% Garlic powder). Catch some brookies and clean them, removing the heads.  Now, take a regulation weiner stick and slide it between the spine and skin and expose the belly to some ready coals.  As it cooks it will open up.  When ready to eat (use your fingers) sprinkle some TBS on the flesh and enjoy.   If God decides he needs you on the spot, you’ll be ready to go buddy.   Have a great trip. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.

Response:

I would rather carry Ramen noodles. Very light, cheap, easy, full of carbos, and a good side dish with the Trout. I can not identify nor stomache SPAM. Sam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I hope thats humor, because I thought it funny. Who in the hell would pass up Trout for dinner to eat a can of "processed" meat? Love them Trout, Spam (the national food of Hawaii, no joke) is a damned good backup if the fish aren’t on the bite…it will sustain you AND make you try a little harder the next day… — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Response:

Take some spam…ok, I’ll kill a pig instead of a trout. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Take some Spam and put the trout back for next time. Lloyd Fortney Another argument for cannibalism. — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Response:

Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.   Take some Spam and put the trout back for next time.

Yikes, I tried that last year and it seriously depleted my supply of Mr.Softy. (being in a Ponderosa Pine forest, I couldn’t resort to Sargent Scratchy-Yow!). To restore my well-being I went back to the tried and true Trout Burritos. Take a frying pan, a small vial of olive oil, an onion or garlic and some flour tortillas.  A campstove vs. a campfire will diminish your impact in high country more significantly than the release of one or two trout.   Saute the onion and/or garlic in olive oil, then stuff this in the trout and lay it in the pan. Turn the heat low and cover with four tortillas. Turn the trout once and rotate the tortillas to warm them all. Remove the bones and fins and roll up in the tortillas with the onions.   Mark Vinsel

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Animal rights…..hmmm…I bet our native prairies wish they had had rights before they were plowed under for food crops.  Ever rip a living plant out of the ground, or twist an ear off a corn plant? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Catch some brookies and clean them, removing the heads. That said, I *am* an unabashed Animal Rights supporter. Moe, please explain how you an AR-loon like yourself can advocate eating fish while at the same time supporting the view that that fish have "rights". You cannot have it both ways.

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Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.

All these recipes are sounding great.    A tip: if you happen to run into some  ’muddy’ tasting trout (you probably won’t in the Bob Marshall), try skinning them before cooking.   Most of the muddy taste in trout is in the fat on the inside of the skin, and transfers to the meat while cooking.   (Not true with catfish.) Max http://www.inetarena.com/~mwi

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Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.

Just a little warning. The regulations in the Bob Marshall are rather strange. You can only take three fish *under* 12", and you can’t take several restricted species. (Basically, anything but Cutthroats and Rainbows.) You might think this is never enforced in a wilderness area, but the last time I was there (last July) we encountered three extremely aggressive and well-armed fish and game wardens. Fortunately, we were in full compliance. One more thing. Some watersheds have a lot of whitefish. There is no limit on them, and they’re pretty tasty, but rather boney. There’s no excuse for releasing a whitefish, as they compete with trout. It you don’t want to eat it then throw it on the bank for the critters.         Steve Barnard

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Why should it? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nova Scotia standard fry your catch recipe: Clean trout, (we NEVER fillet trout) Roll in corn meal Fry in bacon fat (from three slices done up just before, or use oil) 7 min per side per pound Heaven I eat some, I put most back – selective catch and release – depends on hunger!!!!! Bill Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy. — Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada Phone or Fax :  902-656-3329 http://www.tightlines.ns.ca

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Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.

Place trout on a sheet of foil large enough to totally wrap.  Place alternating slices of onions and tomatos on top.  Squeeze juice from one lemon over the trout, then add several thin slices of butter on top. Wrap it up with the foil and throw it on the fire.  Also great in the oven too.  Eat with slices of French bread to soak up the juices.     Or…. salt and pepper the trout, then roll in cornmeal and fry away. Gotta go now… getting hungry.                                                               Spy in Hi.

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Nova Scotia standard fry your catch recipe: Clean trout, (we NEVER fillet trout) Roll in corn meal Fry in bacon fat (from three slices done up just before, or use oil) 7 min per side per pound Heaven I eat some, I put most back – selective catch and release – depends on hunger!!!!! Bill Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.

– Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada Phone or Fax :  902-656-3329 http://www.tightlines.ns.ca

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Cooked over hot coals in open air is great. In foil w/ salt, pepper and garlic is good under the coals is good.  (Put buttered white bread in the body cavity to add flavor and soak up juices — discard the bread after cooking.) Broiled is good. Sauteed in butter is good. Poached in white wine is good. Smoked is good. Boiled with old socks is not good. "Some mornings I wonder if it was worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."  – E. Philips

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Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy. Fillet a decent sized trout.  Roll the fillets in some Ritz cracker crumbs and fry in a mixture of a little butter and olive oil.  When the fish is nearly done, drip some soy sauce on top of the fish.  Um um good.

That does sound good! Personally, I like the smaller fish, 12" or under, not filleted, that can be fried crispy enough so you can eat the fins and the tail. Actually, panfish from brackish water are much better eating.         Steve Barnard

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Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.

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Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.

  Take some Spam and put the trout back for next time. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

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I hope thats humor, because I thought it funny. Who in the hell would pass up Trout for dinner to eat a can of "processed" meat? Love them Trout, Sam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.   Take some Spam and put the trout back for next time. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

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Does anyone have a good trout recipe?  I’ll be heading into the Bob Marshall Wilderness later this summer and a frying pan (or a tinfoil baking) full of trout would be quite yummy.

Fillet a decent sized trout.  Roll the fillets in some Ritz cracker crumbs and fry in a mixture of a little butter and olive oil.  When the fish is nearly done, drip some soy sauce on top of the fish.  Um um good.

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Question:

In the Washington DC area: Brookside Gardens (Wheaton MD) is a nice smallish place, great in azalea season and interesting at other times too. Nice Japanese pavilion. And of course there is the National Arboretum in the District…. The bonsai collection is awesome, and the experience of walking under flowering azalea "trees" (mostly the original GlennDales, i believe) is indescribable (but get there EARLY). — NOTE: to reply you must remove the X at the end of the email address given above/below. Sorry about the inconvenience, but i am totally fed up with the tons of junk mail coming over the Net! Judy Karpen                        "The line between scientific genius and Naval Research Lab               line from The Brain that Wouldnt Die Washington DC                         garden: Zone 7 (Maryland) Do not send ANY commercial solicitations to this address!

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David Fairchild Garden in Miami, Florida, while still recovering from Hurricane Andrew in 1992 is special and worth visiting.  The collection of tropical plants is wonderful.  In fact, after the hurricane, Fairchild Garden recieved letters from other botanical gardens all over the world with offers of seeds, plants, advice, and help to rebuild.

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David Fairchild Garden in Miami, Florida, while still recovering from Hurricane Andrew in 1992 is special and worth visiting.  The collection of tropical plants is wonderful.  In fact, after the hurricane, Fairchild Garden recieved letters from other botanical gardens all over the world with offers of seeds, plants, advice, and help to rebuild.

Hi Julia I know it’s one of *my* favorite places as I can see things growing outside that I can find no other place in the Lower 48. Love it!! I haven’t been there since the hurricane. How’s it shaping up? What about the drive down Old Cutler Road? It used to be so pretty. hurricanes {:O( Paul and Roxanne Mitchell       USDA Zone 9b

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|   |   My question is what are the other top gardens in the U.S.? | | Well, I’m going to answer my own question.  I sent an email to | Bellingrath Gardens asking what the top gardens are.  They replied: | |   Bouchard |   Longview |   Callaway |   Biltmore |   Bellingrath I have seen the Biltmore Garden in Asheville, NC and it is very nice. I will also put in a plug for a couple of local (for me, that is) public gardens that I enjoy. Sarah P. Duke Memorial Gardens, Duke University Campus, Durham, NC Features a terrace garden with a huge Wisteria covered pergola and a good size lily pond, an asiatic arboretum, and the Bloomquist garden of native plants, which features showy plants native to the southeastern United States. North Carolina State University Arboretum – Raleigh, NC Features an incredible diversity of woody plants, a 300 foot long perennial border, a white garden, and various demonstration gardens. Jay

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The National Arboretum in Washington, DC (part of the Smithsonian Institutes, if I’m not mistaken)!!!!!!

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Fort Worth has a remarkable botanical garden with a Japanese water garden section.  Wonderful!  Visit if you can!   — Signed,    Kellie My Karma Ran Over My Dogma.  It was a catastrophe! Now my dogma’s dead and my karma’s out of alignment. Get in "Knee Deep"!     The Internet Pond Society      http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/newsletter.html

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The Missouri Botanical Garden is wonderful. More, they do internationally important research on plant species. The Missouri Botanical Garden has helped fund rainforest research, among other things. No, I don’t work there, but have very much enjoyed visiting. Their web site is: http://www.mobot.org/ I was just there last weekend, and it was stunning even in early spring. Don’t even get me started on the gift shop and it’s book selection….. — Robin, Jasper and Dreamer (my opinions are strictly my own!) Doberman page: http://www.hsc.missouri.edu/people/robin/

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I live in Montreal Canada and our Botanical Gardens are  quite impressive.  I have been informed that Montreal’s Botanical Gardens are the second largest in the world.  They include sections for: a) Perennials b) annuals c) Herbs d) Medicinal Plants e) Plants for commercial use (making dyes, rope, etc) f) poisonous plants g) alpine plants h) vegetables i) grains j) Many bushes k) a large arboretum with many types of trees l) a Chinese garden m) a Japanese garden n) an insectarium o) a butterfly pavilion (live butterflies in natural surroundings) p) a large greenhouse with collections of tropical plants, cacti and succulents from around the world) q) a bookstore with many titles in English and French If you are in Montreal a trip to the Botanical Gardens is a wothwhile experience. Bill (zone 4) Montreal

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I just returned from visiting Bellingrath Gardens which is south of Mobile, Alabama.  What a fabulous place and to think I found it almost by accident.  I definitely recommend visiting it!  In its brochure it lists itself as among the top 5 public gardens in the U.S.   My question is what are the other top gardens in the U.S.?  I want to see them all! Cindy in Indy zone 5

My favorite are right near me so I can visit often. It’s a school that lets folks just walk around. It has acres and acres of amazing things. Like . . . a walled garden with pretty flowers that you spot across the lawn. As you walk closer you can see down to another layer of flowers, closer, another. The darn thing is terriced down, and down, each layer beautifuly designed and reviels itself as you walk closer. The bottom is a tiny pond. Way cool, but forget I said this when you go there so you can be surprised! They have a nice web site you can find by the schools’ name. Niagara Parks Botanic School of Horticulture.It’s just north of Niagra Falls Onterio Canada. It also has a huge butterfly conservitory that just opened. Haven’t been there yet. If you travel for the garden, you get to see the falls too! Peggy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Huntington Botanical Gardens, San Marino, CA; Missouri Botanical Garden.

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    My question is what are the other top gardens in the U.S.? Well, I’m going to answer my own question.  I sent an email to Bellingrath Gardens asking what the top gardens are.  They replied:   Bouchard   Longview   Callaway   Biltmore   Bellingrath Cindy in Indy zone 5

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  My question is what are the other top gardens in the U.S.? Well, I’m going to answer my own question.  I sent an email to Bellingrath Gardens asking what the top gardens are.  They replied:   Bouchard   Longview   Callaway   Biltmore   Bellingrath

   A lot depends on what one defines as a "garden", or more importantly what type of garden you want to see.  There are gardens that have nice grounds, trees, and shrubbery (sometimes flowering in the spring), there are gardens with thousands of "set out" greenhouse plants, then there are gardens with perennial borders filled with thousands of different varieties selected and planned to grow in place.  I’m strongly biased in favor of the last on this list.   If "Bouchard" is Butchart Gardens on Vancouver Island then, because it relies heavily on set out plants, on "my" list it doesn’t even rank at the top of Vancouver gardens.  See http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/tours/vancouver/vancouver.html for views of several gardens in that area and make your own judgement.  Of course, growing conditions in the NW give them an unfair advantage which they pay for with ten to eleven months of gray skies. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

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I just returned from visiting Bellingrath Gardens which is south of Mobile, Alabama.  What a fabulous place My question is what are the other top gardens in the U.S.?  I want to see them all!

The Huntington in LA is sure worth a visit.  I especially enjoyed the cactus & succulent section. Scott http://users.uniserve.com/~lparker/    (SF stories & puzzles)

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I don’t know if it’s rated one of the top gardens, but last year I went to the gardens outside of Chicago (the name escapes me right now). They were absolutely beautiful. I’m hoping to go back again this year soon so I can see the bulb garden in bloom! I think this one is a definite must see:) Michelle the earth was not given to us by our parents, it was lent to us by our children.                 -kenyan proverb – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I just returned from visiting Bellingrath Gardens which is south of Mobile, Alabama.  What a fabulous place and to think I found it almost by accident.  I definitely recommend visiting it!  In its brochure it lists itself as among the top 5 public gardens in the U.S.   My question is what are the other top gardens in the U.S.?  I want to see them all! Cindy in Indy zone 5

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I just returned from visiting Bellingrath Gardens which is south of Mobile, Alabama.  What a fabulous place and to think I found it almost by accident.  I definitely recommend visiting it!  In its brochure it lists itself as among the top 5 public gardens in the U.S.   My question is what are the other top gardens in the U.S.?  I want to see them all! Cindy in Indy zone 5

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My question is what are the other top gardens in the U.S.?  I want to see them all!

    The Chicago Botanical garden is big, varied, and has lots of perennials.  I certainly havn’t seen them all, and I’m strongly biased toward places with perennial borders, but this is by far the best I’ve run across in the US. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

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I just returned from visiting Bellingrath Gardens which is south of Mobile, Alabama.  What a fabulous place and to think I found it almost by accident.  I definitely recommend visiting it!  In its brochure it lists itself as among the top 5 public gardens in the U.S.   My question is what are the other top gardens in the U.S.?  I want to see them all! Cindy in Indy zone 5

I suggest Longwood Gardens outside of Philadelphia. Fabulous place!

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Question:

We are planning a warm weather bonefishing vacation for mid February.  My son and I want to try flyfishing for this great saltwater fish for the first time in a location that will provide good, relaxing beach time for my wife. I  know nothing about the possible seasonable impact on the quality of the fishing.  I am looking for help on where we should plan to go in February (Florida Keys, Bahamas, Carribean, Mexico?).  Please advise.

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You could try any of those locales,but at that time of year, the farther south you go the better your chances for good weather. I’d put my money on Belize, and again the farther south the better. Look into going to Placentia. Even if you have bad weather, you can always go up into the monkey river to fish and there are lots of diversions for non fishing people. The Bones are small but plentiful,and there are Tarpon and you can expect to see LOTS of Permit. If the weather is VERY good you can go out to the reef and catch just about anything. Phil

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Question:

Kirby, Grab your 4-5wt rod and head an hour south of SLC to Provo. Go up Provo Canyon and Fish anywhere between the city and Deer Creek Reservoir. You won’t be alone as this river is fished pretty heavily. But, "Love em and Leave em" is as highly regarded as the dominant religion is in Utah. The last two trips up the canyon have paid off for me. I have been using simple wooly boogers and other balack or brown nymph patterns. Pheasant tails have been particularly good to me. Use very light leaders as these fish all have PHD’s in entemology. You have to be stealthier than normal on this river but the fishing is great. 3-4 pound brown’s are not uncommon on this river. Good fishing, if you have any more questions drop me a line. RL

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My wife is working in Salt Lake City Utah for the next month.  I plan to visit her on the weekends and being from Austin Texas we see an opportunity to get in some fall fly fishing.  I would like tips on streams, access points, and fly patterns to generate a memorable fall fishing adventure near the great salt lakes.  

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