Question:

Folding Kayaks are very stable and are used for fishing. Look at www.folbot.com and www.klepperusa.com. Artie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone: I have been doing some research on recreational kayaks for the main purposes of lake paddling and FISHING. Some of them are: a. Old Town: Loon 111 and Loon 100 b. Perception: Swifty, Sierra, and Acadia c. Wilderness Systems: Pungo, Bandit, and Critter d. Necky: Sky e. Heritage Kayaks: Featherlite For those who fish from a recreational kayak: 1. Is there any particular brand/model that you will strongly suggest? 2. How have you rigged it for fishing? 3. Any website with information and pictures on rigging a kayak for fishing? Thanks a lot for your help. Javier Woodbridge, VA

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone: I have been doing some research on recreational kayaks for the main purposes of lake paddling and FISHING. Some of them are: a. Old Town: Loon 111 and Loon 100 b. Perception: Swifty, Sierra, and Acadia c. Wilderness Systems: Pungo, Bandit, and Critter d. Necky: Sky e. Heritage Kayaks: Featherlite For those who fish from a recreational kayak: 1. Is there any particular brand/model that you will strongly suggest? 2. How have you rigged it for fishing? 3. Any website with information and pictures on rigging a kayak for fishing? Thanks a lot for your help. Javier Woodbridge, VA

The outdoors editor for the Houston Chronicle was a kayak fisherman…. From my kayak experience – get as wide a boat as possible. Wide equals stable and that is a good thing for moving and fishing (but a bit slower for kayaking). Obviously large cockpit opening is good too! paul — PAUL OMAN Offered By: Progressive Epoxy Polymers, Inc. Frog Pond Hollow 48 Wildwood Drive – Pittsfield, NH 03263 603-435-7199   FAX 603-435-7182 HOURS: 10-5  Mon-Thur Eastern Time VISA or MasterCard Accepted http://www.epoxyproducts.com VIEW OFFICES: http://www.picturetrail.com/p.oman/289271 PRODUCTS/PRICES: http://www.epoxyproducts4u.com FAQ: http://www.epoxyproducts.com/25points4u.html BOATING: http://www.epoxyproducts.com/marine.html

Response:

Also consider the Perception Keowee. My Keowee II is about 31" wide which makes it about the widest recreational kayak and it is very stable. Lynn – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been doing some research on recreational kayaks for the main purposes of lake paddling and FISHING. Some of them are: a. Old Town: Loon 111 and Loon 100 b. Perception: Swifty, Sierra, and Acadia c. Wilderness Systems: Pungo, Bandit, and Critter d. Necky: Sky e. Heritage Kayaks: Featherlite For those who fish from a recreational kayak: 1. Is there any particular brand/model that you will strongly suggest? 2. How have you rigged it for fishing? 3. Any website with information and pictures on rigging a kayak for fishing? Thanks a lot for your help. Javier Woodbridge, VA The outdoors editor for the Houston Chronicle was a kayak fisherman…. From my kayak experience – get as wide a boat as possible. Wide equals stable and that is a good thing for moving and fishing (but a bit slower for kayaking). Obviously large cockpit opening is good too! paul

Response:

I don’t fish from a kayak, but have friends who do and they recommend a kayak that was produced only briefly by Perception.  It was the Axxess Backcountry – which was a modification to the Axxess which was perfectly modified in various ways for fishing.   The design was by Jim Snyder – maybe he could steer you to someone who could lay you up one in glass.  (The Perception model was in plastic.)  Jim’s website is for his paddles, but you can access his email from there and maybe he could help you out. http://www.jimisnyder.com – Mothra

Response:

also might check out the  kiwi "Lobo", very similar to the swifty. head over to www.paddling.net and post your question there also, i know quite a few folks there fish from their yaks. good luck, paddle on….

Response:

1. Is there any particular brand/model that you will strongly suggest?

I like the Wilderness Systems Ride SOT model for fly fishing. It works great for slow moving rivers and inshore lakes and saltwater. 2. How have you rigged it for fishing?

I added a couple of Scotty fly rod holders and rigged a couple of eyelets and a jam cleat so I can use a float tube anchor attached to the bow. — Charlie…

Response:

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** I fish out of a Wilderness Systems Pungo.  I live on a large but narrow impoundment (Herrington Lake).  The Pungo tracks extremely well for a 12′ kayak, yet turns easily with a lean.  The heavy motorboat traffic in the summer does not cause me any problems.  The large cockpit has room for a lot of gear, including space behind the seat.  I would highly recommend this boat.  Mine has no special rigging for fishing other than a set of paddle clips/rod holder for use while paddling to a fishing spot.  I generally use a fly rod and even troll with it just leaning out over the bow with the reel sitting in the cup holder. You might find the following web site of interest (no affiliation): http://www.kayakfishing.com/ Conrad Shiba Danville, KY  *** Usenet.com – The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! ***                       http://www.usenet.com

Response:

Hello everyone: I have been doing some research on recreational kayaks for the main purposes of lake paddling and FISHING. Some of them are: a. Old Town: Loon 111 and Loon 100 b. Perception: Swifty, Sierra, and Acadia c. Wilderness Systems: Pungo, Bandit, and Critter d. Necky: Sky e. Heritage Kayaks: Featherlite For those who fish from a recreational kayak: 1. Is there any particular brand/model that you will strongly suggest? 2. How have you rigged it for fishing? 3. Any website with information and pictures on rigging a kayak for fishing? Thanks a lot for your help. Javier Woodbridge, VA

Response:

 I fish from a Perception America. Added deck lines, two each flush mount and deck mount rod-holders. Used to have a depth finder installed but I removed it for another kayak. There are some pictures at http://casualkayaker.tripod.com. I have found very few sites for recreational kayaks so far. Phil Rowe message – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello everyone: I have been doing some research on recreational kayaks for the main purposes of lake paddling and FISHING. Some of them are: a. Old Town: Loon 111 and Loon 100 b. Perception: Swifty, Sierra, and Acadia c. Wilderness Systems: Pungo, Bandit, and Critter d. Necky: Sky e. Heritage Kayaks: Featherlite For those who fish from a recreational kayak: 1. Is there any particular brand/model that you will strongly suggest? 2. How have you rigged it for fishing? 3. Any website with information and pictures on rigging a kayak for fishing? Thanks a lot for your help. Javier Woodbridge, VA

Response:

Question:

Bruce asked: <<Does anyone know where I can get my 8 year old son a set of waders ? Orvis sells ‘em, I think.

Response:

Bruce asked: <<Does anyone know where I can get my 8 year old son a set of waders ? Orvis sells ‘em, I think.

Yep, check out http://www.orvis.com/store/sub_frame.asp?cat_id=25. — Charlie…

Response:

Does anyone know where I can get my 8 year old son a set of waders ?

Cabela’s sells small size neoprenes.   They fit my 9-yr. old pretty well. Joe F.

Response:

Go to Cabelas.  They have an item called "CABELA’S YOUTH STOCKINGFOOT 3MM NEOPRENE WADERS." You will probably want the medium size.  It correlates to a size 10-12 in boys.  Which is normally what an eight year old boy will ware.  They are a good buy at $49.95, item # IK-81-0968. http://www.cabelas.com/texis/scripts/store/+EwwFqcgwx-EPPWKK8xFqqkQqF… PPWKK8EHEqEEmFmRnFqtkQ+vXgAFqtiwmnG5czmwwwwMzmwwwf/process.html?formname=Ca t alogDisplay&submit=displayPOD&PodID=IK209A Vern – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone know where I can get my 8 year old son a set of waders ? Thanks in advance Bruce

Response:

try dan bailey’s sale going on. Rat

Response:

Does anyone know where I can get my 8 year old son a set of waders ? Thanks in advance Bruce

Hi Bruce, I would try the Cabelas or Orvis catalog. At our shop, we have carried them off and on for about 20 years with very little sales. Most people, I said most people, not all, don’t want to invest in something that they will grow out of in a year or two. Some other parents might think it is too dangerous to have their children out in moving water with waders on?

Response:

chest straps, waist belt….proper technique and waders can save your life. neoprene types can be a life preserver….read up on tecnique.  or shall I say read on……others explain it better……john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anyone know where I can get my 8 year old son a set of waders ? My father bought my sone a set of hip waders from Orvis for my 8 year old & we both took up fly fishing last summer. I’ve had to dump him out (turn upside down to drain water out of boots after he either falls, or goes too deep) EVERY trip except for our last outing in September.  It was a VERY sucessful trip – I caught my first & he didn’t fall in! I’m still have mixed feeling about getting him a full set of waders – although he is very athletic & coordinated I could see him getting into trouble if he could go deeper.  The waders limit his range, but sort of form a safety limit too. OTOH – every time he dumps is a pain. Good luck & post where you find the best deal – I still haven’t made up MY mind of how we will go next year. Mark Klove

Response:

Does anyone know where I can get my 8 year old son a set of waders ?

My father bought my sone a set of hip waders from Orvis for my 8 year old & we both took up fly fishing last summer.   I’ve had to dump him out (turn upside down to drain water out of boots after he either falls, or goes too deep) EVERY trip except for our last outing in September.  It was a VERY sucessful trip – I caught my first & he didn’t fall in! I’m still have mixed feeling about getting him a full set of waders – although he is very athletic & coordinated I could see him getting into trouble if he could go deeper.  The waders limit his range, but sort of form a safety limit too. OTOH – every time he dumps is a pain. Good luck & post where you find the best deal – I still haven’t made up MY mind of how we will go next year. Mark Klove

Response:

Does anyone know where I can get my 8 year old son a set of waders ? Thanks in advance Bruce

Response:

Question:

Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Response:

Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Downstream, IMHO. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Bob, I don’t know that there’s a difinitive answer to your question, but I prefer to keep the staff on my upstream side. It simply feels more stable to me. George Adams

Response:

Well Bob Rose, you got two different answers/opinions: <<Downstream, IMHO. <<Bob, I don’t know that there’s a difinitive answer to your question, but I prefer to keep the staff on my upstream side. It simply feels more stable to me. I favor the downstream, because as George says, "it simply feels more stable".  I can lean into it if need be and if I slip, it is down- stream from me so that I can get a better purchase if I lose it.   Having said this, I *have* used it up-stream, but in "kinder, gentler" water.  <g Dave L.

Response:

Wading in difficult water takes planning. the important thing is to hold it in your right hand – if right handed, for the best grip – then keep the staff to the right side of your body. If the water flows from right to left and you are right handed . Putting the staff downstream will put it across your body – you can trip on it then. Wading very heavy water you’ll  want to lean into the wading staff for extra support as you move one foot – get a firm footing – move the other foot – get a firm footing and then move the staff. – you’ll be leaning into it downstream to minimize the force of the current. In such situations orient yourself downstream and crab walk side ways heading across and somehwat downstream.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Response:

Let’s make that three different answers/opinions Dave, I am right handed and prefer to keep the wading staff in my right hand at all times. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well Bob Rose, you got two different answers/opinions: <<Downstream, IMHO. <<Bob, I don’t know that there’s a difinitive answer to your question, but I prefer to keep the staff on my upstream side. It simply feels more stable to me. I favor the downstream, because as George says, "it simply feels more stable".  I can lean into it if need be and if I slip, it is down- stream from me so that I can get a better purchase if I lose it. Having said this, I *have* used it up-stream, but in "kinder, gentler" water.  <g Dave L.

Response:

I favor the downstream, because as George says, "it simply feels more stable".  I can lean into it if need be and if I slip, it is down- stream from me so that I can get a better purchase if I lose it.   Having said this, I *have* used it up-stream, but in "kinder, gentler" water.  <g Dave L.

In heavy current, always downstream for balance no matter what the hand.  On rocky, uneven bottoms in slower water, the right hand for strength.  On sharply sloping bottoms (a.k.a. the wing dam,) down slope side.  I also use it to climb in and out of the water on steep banks (right hand.) Peter

Response:

Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Well, if you’re wading, the directions that mainly seem to matter are upstream and downstream. And, well, if through some herculean (‘fortenberrian?’) effort, you manage to fall upstream, you’re soon enough going to be headed downstream with that whole current thing going on. So, for me, it stands to reason, in lieu of exceptional circumstances, you’d pretty much want that baby sticking out on your downstream side. Can’t we all just get along? – sid

Response:

Peter Charlles: <<I also use it to climb in and out of the water on steep banks (right hand.) And a machete in your left hand to cut through the mountain laurel.  <g Dave L.

Response:

Hello Bob: Always put your staff up stream and be wary of wading down stream. Sometimes you can wade down current but find you cannot wade back up current. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Response:

My problem with a staff has always been what to do with the damn thing when I’m not using it — hang it over my back (it slips off), let it float (it bangs on rocks and tries to trip me). Always glad to have it when I need it though…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Bob: Always put your staff up stream and be wary of wading down stream. Sometimes you can wade down current but find you cannot wade back up current. Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Response:

_______  Wading Staff can be replaced with a Wading Cane.  These have a crook in the handle which can be draped over one arm, a shoulder or hooked into the top of a set of chest waders.   There is no such thing as the ‘carefree’ wading staff or cane.  But a wading cane does offer different ways to hang or carry them out of the way. Mr. G.

Response:

Palmer writes:

<<My problem with a staff has always been what to do with the damn thing when I’m not using it — hang it over my back (it slips off), let it float (it bangs on rocks and tries to trip me). Always glad to have it when I need it though… I know a ffer who has wrapped and taped foam over the handle, and the staff floats harmlessly out of his way.  The  collapsable type are easy to fold up when not in use, but a pain to take the time to do so.  It’s a big trade-off — if you need it, you will have to put up with a little inconvenience.  In the water I fish, I can’t live without it.  <g Dave L.

Response:

In heavy current, always downstream for balance no matter what the hand.

Crap! As soon as you lift the staff from the bottom, you’re toppled off balance by the current and away off downstream! Thrilling stuff, but not what you’re after. In really heavy current: lean INTO the stream; both hands on the pole if necessary. If you have to ’shoot the rapids’, best to do it feet forwards. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Tony,    That was  spoken like a man who has learned the art of wading fast water the hard way. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In heavy current, always downstream for balance no matter what the hand. Crap! As soon as you lift the staff from the bottom, you’re toppled off balance by the current and away off downstream! Thrilling stuff, but not what you’re after. In really heavy current: lean INTO the stream; both hands on the pole if necessary. If you have to ’shoot the rapids’, best to do it feet forwards. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

I usually keep mine high up in the air flailing as I’m falling – usually in 1 foot or less of water.  Funny, I bought the thing so I wouldn’t fall in, but I have only fallen in when I’m using a staff. Maybe I’m less careful when using a staff? When I’m not falling I like to use it on both sides – the side opposite the foot I’m moving- and I push on the staff to balance back to that foot. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Response:

Crap! As soon as you lift the staff from the bottom, you’re toppled off balance by the current and away off downstream! Thrilling stuff, but not what you’re after. In really heavy current: lean INTO the stream; both hands on the pole if necessary. If you have to ’shoot the rapids’, best to do it feet forwards. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Some of us make sure our feet are planted before we lift our staffs. Peter

Response:

Tony Deacon: Crap! As soon as you lift the staff from the bottom, you’re toppled off balance by the current and away off downstream! Thrilling stuff, but not what you’re after. In really heavy current: lean INTO the stream; both hands on the pole if necessary. If you have to ’shoot the rapids’, best to do it feet forwards. Tight Lines,

Crap back at ya, Tony.  <g  With it down stream you *are* leaning into the current, both hands on the pole if necessary.  You are pushing yourself into the current with it down-stream.  If the pole should slip up-stream, you’re gonna have a tuff time replanting it. Not so on a down stream plant.  Besides, as Peter has said, make sure you feet are planted before you lift the staff (regardless it is up or down-stream). Dave L.

Response:

Tony Deacon: Crap! As soon as you lift the staff from the bottom, you’re toppled off balance by the current and away off downstream! Thrilling stuff, but not what you’re after. In really heavy current: lean INTO the stream; both hands on the pole if necessary. If you have to ’shoot the rapids’, best to do it feet forwards. Tight Lines, Crap back at ya, Tony.  <g  With it down stream you *are* leaning into the current, both hands on the pole if necessary.  

I read something not long ago about wading staff use and it made what seemed at the time to be a pretty good argument for upstream use. I’ll try to remember where I read it. — Charlie…

Response:

Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording?

I can’t imagine it makes much difference so long as it keeps you right side up, but I use mine on the downstream side, usually. Joe F.

Response:

Tony,   That was  spoken like a man who has learned the art of wading fast water the hard way.

You bet Ernie! I have ‘dan grade’ in falling in, which I’ve practised since an early age. It doesn’t bother me much (I swim like a fish) and sometimes I quite like the adventure. But as I get older, priorities change and I’m not quite so keen on a ducking in Scotland in February. Besides, fishing time is precious (and expensive) and I’ve better things to be doing than admiring the view as I float off towards Aberdeen or the Moray Firth. Back to topic: I use lead shot loaded ski poles as wading staffs, with an over shoulder lanyard attached to the TOP of the pole handle (where the wrist strap of a ski pole normally attaches). This way, the staff can ‘trail’ unobtrusively out-of-the-way when not needed. Wading staffs usually have the lanyard attached below the handle, which creates an irritating angle between lanyard and handle that catches the fly line/fences/bushes/gate bars, etc. I can catch up my staff easily without looking because the lanyard is exactly the right length: I just hook my thumb under the lanyard; push out my arm to full stretch and close my hand. The grip of the pole is always right there. I’ll say this again: in REALLY strong current, you need the full advantage of the triangular base formed by your feet and the wading staff, with the staff and your centre of gravity UPSTREAM of your feet. You should be leaning on the pole and INTO the current. Every placement of foot or staff has to be careful, but you can’t afford to dither. Once you lose it, it’s very hard to recover … and then you’re off sightseeing. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Tony,    Sounds like an effective outfit, thanks for the tips.  I might add that I find Cross Country Ski Poles are better to use for wading staffs because they are longer. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2

<snip I use lead shot loaded ski poles as wading staffs, with an

over shoulder lanyard attached to the TOP of the pole handle (where the wrist strap of a ski pole normally attaches). This way, the staff can ‘trail’ unobtrusively out-of-the-way when not needed. Wading staffs usually have the lanyard attached below the handle, which creates an irritating angle between lanyard and handle that catches the fly line/fences/bushes/gate bars, etc. I can catch up my staff easily without looking because the lanyard is exactly the right length: I just hook my thumb under the lanyard; push out my arm to full stretch and close my hand. The grip of the pole is always right there. I’ll say this again: in REALLY strong current, you need the full advantage of the triangular base formed by your feet and the wading staff, with the staff and your centre of gravity UPSTREAM of your feet. You should be leaning on the pole and INTO the current. Every placement of foot or staff has to be careful, but you can’t afford to dither. Once you lose it, it’s very hard to recover … and then you’re off sightseeing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tony Deacon

Response:

Tony,   Sounds like an effective outfit, thanks for the tips.  I might add that I find Cross Country Ski Poles are better to use for wading staffs because they are longer.

Yes, those are the ones I use too. TL, Tony Deacon

Response:

Hello: Regarding the proper use of a Wading Staff: Based on users experiences, is the proper/best placement of the staff on the upstream or downstream side of the user when fording? Bob

Down stream side with a landyard long enought to just reach the handle of the staff.   I would buy old ski poles and pull the bottom gizmo off, then drill a hole in the handle for the landyard……it works great, and cheap. Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

So George, you’ve found yet a new way to assert your commercial presence here…by creating new subject lines…make that HEADLINES several times a day? Don’t you have your own chatroom to manipulate? Bastards All & Lovin Them! Gehrke Fly Rods Best Buy in Nation Chat Site Alive and Well! Since February I have tried to see you as an unfairly treated person here. I find no reason to continue trying. Enough is enough. — Jeff Cook http://www.cookstudios.com Washington DC area

Response:

I think I was an early supporter, having ordered a Bastard, 7.5′, #4 back in December. However, I internalized the wisdom of placing that order especially when the ‘reviews’ began to appear here and decided to cancel the order for my ‘Bastard’ on September 30. Without any other comment I just want to say, boy do I feel relieved.

Response:

I think I was an early supporter, having ordered a Bastard, 7.5′, #4 back in December. However, I internalized the wisdom of placing that order especially when the ‘reviews’ began to appear here and decided to cancel the order for my ‘Bastard’ on September 30. Without any other comment I just want to say, boy do I feel relieved.

this.  That you feel relieved is another question regarding you being able to think for yourself is in question with me.  You could have inspected the qualities of a fine fly rod first hand.  That you seem to have ‘a need’ to post such a remark in public, I regard as disappointing as it does not hurt me as much as it does you. A fair man wouldn’t have done this. Why did you do this?  We never did anything to you but work our hearts out for you. christ. Mr. G.

Response:

Just think Allen, you could have seen first hand what a pile of crap his rods are and sent it back.  After all he does guarantee your money back plus a nasty response to any one who doesn’t like them.  Of course you are out $12 return postage, but getting on George’s sh*t list should be worth something.  :-) Ernie Harrison Keep Livestock Away From Our Rivers and Streams. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I was an early supporter, having ordered a Bastard, 7.5′, #4 back in December. However, I internalized the wisdom of placing that order especially when the ‘reviews’ began to appear here and decided to cancel the order for my ‘Bastard’ on September 30. Without any other comment I just want to say, boy do I feel relieved.

Response:

Just think Allen, you could have seen first hand what a pile of crap his rods are and sent it back.  After all he does guarantee your money back plus a nasty response to any one who doesn’t like them.  Of course you are out $12 return postage, but getting on George’s sh*t list should be worth something.  :-) Ernie Harrison

______  Harrison, you’re very bit of what Doug Knight says you are. None of it good.  This style of post of yours again proves what kind of person you really are and always have been in ROFF. Mr. G.

Response:

Steve, you’re right. I could have waited to check out a Bastard and return it (at my expense) if it didn’t pass inspection. However, I am not a bamboo affecionado(sp?), am not qualified to do a quality inspection, and based my decision on the many defects identified in the reviews ‘Bastards’ have received thus far. As far as posting my cancellation: It appears that ANY constructive discussion/criticism/suggestions about ANYTHING associated with this rod brings forth a venemous assault, i.e. "I Tried a Bastard" by Bob Smith. BTW, have you ever walked into a store intending to buy something and were so offended by what you saw of the interaction between sales and customer that you said to yourself, "forget this", and just turned around and walked out.

Response:

Steve, you’re right. I could have waited to check out a Bastard and return it (at my expense) if it didn’t pass inspection. However, I am not a bamboo affecionado(sp?), am not qualified to do a quality inspection, and based my decision on the many defects identified in the reviews ‘Bastards’ have received thus far. As far as posting my cancellation: It appears that ANY constructive discussion/criticism/suggestions about ANYTHING associated with this rod brings forth a venemous assault, i.e. "I Tried a Bastard" by Bob Smith. BTW, have you ever walked into a store intending to buy something and were so offended by what you saw of the interaction between sales and customer that you said to yourself, "forget this", and just turned around and walked out.

wouldn’t let anyone else do my thinking for me. Mr. G.

Response:

George did everything he could to sell his Bastards (ie. SPAM), take orders and impress us with his genius on this newsgroup.  What goes around come around.  Thus, I think it fair to cancel an order via this newsgroup, even if not tactful. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never posted about the Bastard, but i dont think its fair to say in public that you plan on canceling an order on a rod that you havent seen.  If you have worries about the bastard, its perfectly fine to cancel an order, but to say it in a public forum is just unfairly hurting another person’s business.  Maybe Mr.G’s rods arent perfect but from what i hear, he does have a money back guarantee so you’re not running much risk by at least having it shipped to you to be inspected.

Response:

Just to clarify; I cancelled my purchase of the rod privately, via e-mail, to George on Sept. 30th. My post on ROFF a week later was no different then anyone posting about a broken rod tip, some warranty, some service fee, etc. from any rod, reel, etc. company. BTW, it’s been a long time now but didn’t G post some of the names and number of orders he had? Finally, yes I guess my post may not have been very tactful. I’ll hereby give myself 10 lashes with a wet noodle.

As much as it hurts to say it, I have to agree with George on this one. I have no problem if someone wants to cancel their order but your public statements only point out your preference for bolting with the herd rather than thinking for yourself or just checking it out first hand. Let’s face it. When George started this whole thing it was painfully clear that it was a risk to order a rod from someone that was taking on a fairly demanding technical task for the first time, regardless of what he said. If you didn’t think it was a risk (and the posts at that time made it pretty clear it was) then you were painfully naive. That risk has not changed since the beginning yet you have gotten nervous and bolted at the end. This is still OK by me but what is the purpose of publicly venting your "relief" at this juncture since you have absolutely nothing concrete to add to the debate except to proclaim this herd behavior? I would be embarrassed to publicly advertise that behavior if I were in your position. There have certainly been problems and George has been George. I have read nothing here that is any different than what George has posted since he first appeared on ROFF, so what else is new?! You guys act as if this is all a big surprise. Get real. If you were misled about what it might be like to deal with George on this, I would suggest it was in part done by yourselves and a lust for a new bamboo rod at what was initially hoped to be bargain basement prices. Maybe its time for a reality check and to get over it. As a disclaimer, this post is certainly not a defense of George. Some of the things that have gone on seem reprehensible to me and George is far from pure. Too much said. Jon "sucked into this thread" McAnulty

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Always nice too see the leader of a customer service organization using terms like ‘insect brain’ in a public forum. Especially when its in reference to a potential customer. George, I dont care if your rods are beamed here from God himself … SNIPPED

Exactly my thoughts!  At this point I don’t care how great they might be- I’m willing to skip ever finding out, just so I don’t have to deal with this guy and run the risk of being publicly demeaned. What a freakin’ nutcase. Before you buy.

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…I wouldn’t let anyone else do my thinking for me.

And THIS is a serious problem because you don’t do any of it for yourself either.

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Nice to see the Mrs. has the same accumen. Tom

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I’ve never posted about the Bastard, but i dont think its fair to say in public that you plan on canceling an order on a rod that you havent seen.  If you have worries about the bastard, its perfectly fine to cancel an order, but to say it in a public forum is just unfairly hurting another person’s business.  Maybe Mr.G’s rods arent perfect but from what i hear, he does have a money back guarantee so you’re not running much risk by at least having it shipped to you to be inspected.

It seems to me that the very essence of a public forum such as this newsgroup is to provide an opportunity for anyone to express an opinion; any opinion.  That someone chooses to express an opinion which has a bearing on the central issues covered in this particular newsgroup should not be lamented.  Consider also that the negative reports on Mr. Gerhke’s products undoubtedly do him a lot less damage than does his own behavior in this forum.  Moreover, his incessant peddling of his products here opens the door for responses pertaining to those products even when, as is the case here, those responses are overwhelmingly negative.  ROFF is a community in a truer sense of the word than are most of the cities, towns, and villages in which most of us live.  One of the things which makes this a true community is that the residents, by common if tacit consent, watch out for one another.  This is by and large true despite the vigor with which we sometimes attack one another’s sacred cows.  I am confident that most of the regulars here would warn other members of the community about actual or potential problems with any commercial product regardless of who produces that product.  That one particular purveyor of fly fishing related products chooses to use this forum as his personal marketing outlet should not , and does not, exempt him from the same scrutiny and criticism which any other manufacturer is subject to.  And if his products and his character bring out in public reviews which hurt his business well, what can one say but Tough Shit?!

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Was it Gatlinburg in mid-July, had you just it town and your throat was dry, and did think you’d stop and have yourself a brew?

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Right on John. I first went there in 1931 at age 6. A straw mattress and kerosene lamp. Jack in Nashville.

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Just to clarify; I cancelled my purchase of the rod privately, via e-mail, to George on Sept. 30th. My post on ROFF a week later was no different then anyone posting about a broken rod tip, some warranty, some service fee, etc. from any rod, reel, etc. company. BTW, it’s been a long time now but didn’t G post some of the names and number of orders he had? Finally, yes I guess my post may not have been very tactful. I’ll hereby give myself 10 lashes with a wet noodle.

Response:

Always nice too see the leader of a customer service organization using terms like ‘insect brain’ in a public forum. Especially when its in reference to a potential customer. George, I dont care if your rods are beamed here from God himself or if they truly are the low end of the market. With the defensive, insulting, condescending, aloof and generally surly attitude you take, your business is doomed to fail. If I bought something off of you and decided to return it, and you sent me a nasty-gram along with my refund check, you would regret it for the rest of your business life. Tom.

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George did everything he could to sell his Bastards (ie. SPAM), take orders and impress us with his genius on this newsgroup.  What goes around come around.  Thus, I think it fair to cancel an order via this newsgroup, even if not tactful.

And you’re right, it isn’t tactful. Respectfully, Gladys M. Gehrke Executive Secretary Bastard Fly Rod Company

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every one here knows exactly what they are missing

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every one here knows exactly what they are missing

______ You’re full of it, insect brain.  Along with the other turkeys in Roff just like you. Mr.G.

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I’ve never posted about the Bastard, but i dont think its fair to say in public that you plan on canceling an order on a rod that you havent seen.  If you have worries about the bastard, its perfectly fine to cancel an order, but to say it in a public forum is just unfairly hurting another person’s business.  Maybe Mr.G’s rods arent perfect but from what i hear, he does have a money back guarantee so you’re not running much risk by at least having it shipped to you to be inspected. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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—-snip—- BTW, have you ever walked into a store intending to buy something and were so offended by what you saw of the interaction between sales and customer that you said to yourself, "forget this", and just turned around and walked out.

—-snip—-

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—-snip—- BTW, have you ever walked into a store intending to buy something and were so offended by what you saw of the interaction between sales and customer that you said to yourself, "forget this", and just turned around and walked out. —-snip—-

Gatlinburg! A place I remember with wood sidewalks where I bought one of the finest pair of moccasins I ever owned, real sqaw chewed Cherokee mocs. On the Illinois plains I could fly with them but in rocky terrain were less than ideal. That was 50yrs ago, before all the super interstates and a trip there from Dwight Ill. was an occasion and adventure. Most folks of the area went to Wisconsin or Michigan for pike or musky not to Tenn. for trout. It’s now probably a huge city full of crap and corruption like most of the other places that were peacfull and friendly in my long ago youth.                                                         John Popp                                                      in Sanford Fl.

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George did everything he could to sell his Bastards (ie. SPAM), take orders and impress us with his genius on this newsgroup.  What goes around come around.  Thus, I think it fair to cancel an order via this newsgroup, even if not tactful. And you’re right, it isn’t tactful. Respectfully, Gladys M. Gehrke Executive Secretary Bastard Fly Rod Company

  george, oh i mean gladys (yeah, right), i tried being tactful with your patient, i mean husband. and look where it got me. he comes on here and dumps shit on ANYONE who says ANYTHING that isn’t totally in agreement with his delusions about his rods. the guy is unstable, megalomaniacal,egocentric and a pathalogical liar. i fear for your safety "gladys". if he hasn’t sucked you into his Frostcukoo land beyond all hopes of escape, then RUN Gladys RUN before it’s too late.       bob smith, former weel wisher till i got slammed for trying to tell GG the truth. Before you buy.

Response:

George did everything he could to sell his Bastards (ie. SPAM), take orders and impress us with his genius on this newsgroup.  What goes around come around.  Thus, I think it fair to cancel an order via this newsgroup, even if not tactful.

_______  You don’t know what you’re missing.   Gladys Gehrke

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Question:

Will be in PNG for Nov/Dec, anyone have any info or URLs for flyfishing there ? Thanks, Mick

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Mick, Nov-Dec will be rainy season – depending on where abouts you are and it might reduce for options for tangling with nugini bass and black bass. Dean guides there and pioneered many locations in PNG for black bass etc. and has many friends there. Regards John Knight Sydney Fly Rodders’

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Question:

Tell me how well they do in 15 or 20 years. — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – . All the rod makers that state their guarantee fulfill their guarantees. I have broken Orvis  and Sage rods and never had a bit of trouble.None of the rod companies could get away with refusal on their guarantee–they would be lepers at the party!

Response:

scroll back and look at the previous mulitude of posts about this subject.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -are my eyes deceiving me or is the sage 0 wgt rod in the $500 range….i got $250 in gift certificates to my favorite fly shop and thought i would treat myself to a new rod in the spring and when i checked the prices i almost had a heart attack….am i wrong or is the fly rod makers getting a little carried away…..

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are my eyes deceiving me or is the sage 0 wgt rod in the $500 range….i got $250 in gift certificates to my favorite fly shop and thought i would treat myself to a new rod in the spring and when i checked the prices i almost had a heart attack….am i wrong or is the fly rod makers getting a little carried away…..

You’re wrong. OK OK, you’re right too! OC Garza

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Thank the "free replacement" lifetime guarantee and all those who break rods simply to get a new one! Prediction: this policy will stop in the next years. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – are my eyes deceiving me or is the sage 0 wgt rod in the $500 range….i got $250 in gift certificates to my favorite fly shop and thought i would treat myself to a new rod in the spring and when i checked the prices i almost had a heart attack….am i wrong or is the fly rod makers getting a little carried away…..

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Thank the "free replacement" lifetime guarantee and all those who break rods simply to get a new one!

Never thought of that. Hmmmm…..

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Thank the "free replacement" lifetime guarantee and all those who break rods

simply to get a new one! Prediction: this policy will stop in the next years. than the equivalent Sage DS series rod. As far as I can tell, G Loomis doesn’t yet (and probably never will) offer an unconditional warranty on their rods. Gary Loomis must be laughing all the way to the bank – he charges more for the same rod than other manufacturers do, then he charges you more when it breaks and you want a replacement. My point is, you say that prices are so expensive because of the warranty on some rods, why are Loomis rods(which don’t carry the unconditional warranty) as expensive as their equivalent Sage (et. al) rods? Performance? Doubt probably! I would much rather spend a couple extra bucks to help me if for some reason my fly rods breaks than to spend a a couple extra bucks to help Gary Loomis’ pay his insurance on his Mercedes! I own a Loomis rod, and while it is of what I consider average performance, I will never buy another one because I find other manufacturer’s rods as good, if not better, and they come with the added benefit of the lifetime warranty. Which, by the way, I have never had to use in 8 years of fly fishing and I hope I never have to. But its there, just in case.

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I have an attic full of things that had a lifetime guarantee and after a few years could no longer get them fixed or replaced.  I suppose that if you become insistent on the guarantee the dealer will arrange with a "hit man" to fulfill your contract. — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison Thank the "free replacement" lifetime guarantee and all those who break rods simply to get a new one! Prediction: this policy will stop in the next

years. <snip

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I have an attic full of things that had a lifetime guarantee and after a few

years could no longer get them fixed or replaced.  I suppose that if you become insistent on the guarantee the dealer will arrange with a "hit man" to fulfill your contract. Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison

I don’t understand your point.

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I have an attic full of things that had a lifetime guarantee and after a few years could no longer get them fixed or replaced.  I suppose that if you become insistent on the guarantee the dealer will arrange with a "hit man" to fulfill your contract. Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison I don’t understand your point.

Ernie-You are a guy who posts here all the time and i have enjoyed your comments–up till this one. All the rod makers that state their guarantee fulfill their guarantees. I have broken Orvis  and Sage rods and never had a bit of trouble.None of the rod companies could get away with refusal on their guarantee–they would be lepers at the party!

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are my eyes deceiving me or is the sage 0 wgt rod in the $500 range….i got $250 in gift certificates to my favorite fly shop and thought i would treat myself to a new rod in the spring and when i checked the prices i almost had a heart attack….am i wrong or is the fly rod makers getting a little carried away…..

Response:

are my eyes deceiving me or is the sage 0 wgt rod in the $500 range….i got $250 in gift certificates to my favorite fly shop and thought i would treat myself to a new rod in the spring and when i checked the prices i almost had a heart attack….am i wrong or is the fly rod makers getting a little carried away…..

Hi all, Sage has a new series of specialty rods for very light fishing situations.  They have 3 sizes available for 1998.  Size  0, 1 and 2 line rods and  complete outfits. I have personally tried these rods/outfits and they cast very well. Sage worked with Scientific Angler to develop the new fly lines for these rods. If you are interested in fishing 7x and 8x tippet with #20 and smaller flies you might want to take a look. If this is not your ‘cup of  tea’, then don’t let it ruin your day. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Question:

I talked to anglers in Alaska who were fly fishing for kings. They were doing quite well, so I asked them if they had some advice to give, what flies to use etc. They told me that they did not spend time tying flies for kings (egg suckers, fat freddies etc), instead they were using large colorful "Piece-of-yarn" flies. These flies were not really tied in a normal way; instead they used a fairly large short shank hook on which they prepared a specially designed knot, ripped off a piece of yarn, put the yarn on place and finalized the knot. It all took less than a minute and seems a good solution regarding the number of flies you lose when fishing on the bottom… My problem is: I can’t remember how they did the trick. Does anybody have a description for how to make this special knot?   What hook would be the most appropriate? Thanks in advance, Tord Andreasson Sweden

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I talked to anglers in Alaska who were fly fishing for kings. They were doing quite well, so I asked them if they had some advice to give, what flies to use etc. They told me that they did not spend time tying flies for kings (egg suckers, fat freddies etc), instead they were using large colorful "Piece-of-yarn" flies. These flies were not really tied in a normal way; instead they used a fairly large short shank hook on which they prepared a specially designed knot, ripped off a piece of yarn, put the yarn on place and finalized the knot. It all took less than a minute and seems a good solution regarding the number of flies you lose when fishing on the bottom… My problem is: I can’t remember how they did the trick. Does anybody have a description for how to make this special knot?   What hook would be the most appropriate? Thanks in advance, Tord Andreasson Sweden

the knot is the egg or bait loop. it’s been years since I tied one so my instructions may not be quite right; essentially: use Turned up eye hook. put the tippet through the eye and near the bend of the hoo start wrapping relatively loosely back to the eye about 6 wraps –  use a finger tip to hold the wraps in place. Put the tippet end back under the wraps much like a nail knot and pull it tight to snug the loops. To make the fly push slack into the tippet to open a loop over the shank stick the yarn in and tighten up. Clip to shape and size desired. Personally I just tie flies with yarn and threa at home on the same style hooks. Tkaes a minute or two per fly and doesn’t involve any fumbling on stream Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Question:

We are a couple of fly tyers and would like the pattern and instructions for tying the egg and eye pattern.

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We are a couple of fly tyers and would like the pattern and instructions for tying the egg and eye pattern.

Simple: hook:   #8-#12 3xl body;    silver mylar tinsel thorax (egg sack) hot orange chenille wing: rolled segment of mallard flank eye: white with black dot. Ralph H

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We are a couple of fly tyers and would like the pattern and instructions for tying the egg and eye pattern.

did you already see the globug photos in alt.binaries.pictures.fishing ??? Still have questions ? TimW

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Go buy a jar of "Balls-O-Fire" and copy exactly.  You can sometimes find eyes in cat food, these are also helpful models.  Not being a tyer, maybe you should ignore this advice…JE

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Pattern: Hook: size 10-12 egg style(very short shank); longer shank if 2 eggs are           desired Thread: 6/0 orange Body:Orange cactus or regular chenele in 1 ball or if 2 eggs are desired, then 2         balls Hackle(optional):white soft hen at front; or front, middle, and rear if you have 2 or eggs For 2 eggs: Place hook in vice and do all the things you do to get a fly started. With thread attached, tie in a soft, white, hen hackleand meke 2 or 3 turns with it and clip after tieing off. Tie in orange chenele and make a 1/4 inch in diameter ball.  Tie in and make 2 more wraps with your hackle.Tie off and clip. Make another ball and hackle at the front. Whip finish. For 1 egg: Eliminate the rear ball of chenele and the rear two hackles and use shorter hooks. Hope it helps

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Pattern:

Look guys the egg and I is a standard BC alevin pattern that been around for about 40 years! I KNOW that’s what the original poster was looking for because it was posted via Mindlink a BC ISP! So stop with the glo-bug instructions alright! Hook: size 10-12 egg style(very short shank); longer shank if 2 eggs are   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –        desired Thread: 6/0 orange Body:Orange cactus or regular chenele in 1 ball or if 2 eggs are desired, then 2         balls Hackle(optional):white soft hen at front; or front, middle, and rear if you have 2 or eggs For 2 eggs: Place hook in vice and do all the things you do to get a fly started. With thread attached, tie in a soft, white, hen hackleand meke 2 or 3 turns with it and clip after tieing off. Tie in orange chenele and make a 1/4 inch in diameter ball.  Tie in and make 2 more wraps with your hackle.Tie off and clip. Make another ball and hackle at the front. Whip finish. For 1 egg: Eliminate the rear ball of chenele and the rear two hackles and use shorter hooks. Hope it helps

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Question:

My step-dad and I are going to Weaverville on Saturday for some steelhead fishing.  Any advice from recent visitors?  Lures, places, approaches? Thanks in advance.  Dave in Anderson, CA

Response:

This is probably late advice, but I’d stay home.   The river is muddy and fishing is slow. Instead of the Trinity, I’d go over to Lewiston Lake and flyfish that area.  Or…take a drive over to the Smith River as it’s still clear enough to fish and, I understand, that the salmon and steelhead are being cooperative.  Four good updated info on the Trinity, I’d call the Eureka Fly Shop at 444-2000 or the Redding Fly Shop (I don’t have their number). Barry Brown – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My step-dad and I are going to Weaverville on Saturday for some steelhead fishing.  Any advice from recent visitors?  Lures, places, approaches? Thanks in advance.  Dave in Anderson, CA

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Question:

Hi, I hit the "D" key instead of the "S" key by mistake so lost the e-mail address and name of the guy I was talking with about flyfishing Puget Sound. I was just wondering how things went for you.  Did you try the area near Shilshole?  Catch anything?  What type and how big?  See any Salmon or Steelhead?  What flys did you use?  Try any shiney streamers? Another spot was across the sound near the Straights of Juan De Fuca, off some of the jettys and sand bars out there.  Makes a nice weekend trip when the salmon are running.  Nothing like double-hauling a 9wt line on a two-handed rod in a stiff breeze casting a 6" streamer.  I can taste the salt on my face just thinking about it.

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" Nothing like double-hauling a 9wt line on a two-handed rod" says

Exactly how does one double haul with a two handed rod?  Have the ghilly do the hauling?                                 Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane

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