Question:

Attended subject show and got to put some faces to email names.  Barry Beck was a guest tier.  Class act.  After he finished tying, he passed around a board of the fly he just tied and asked every one that "listened to the demo to take one."  Watched Harrison Steeves tie.  Another class act.  He was selling his flies for $1.50 ( That’s right- $1.50 from a world class tier on patterns he originated and made famous) and would spend an hour showing you how to tie it and others specifically asked for.  At times you forget how nice some people are that "made it to the top" in this sport. Wonder if George is going to pass out "Bastards" to those of us who have listened to him on this site.  (Sorry George- I just could not resist.) Lou

Response:

Good meeting you Lou.  A couple Roffians met at noon in the lobby for a howdy and I went to lunch with Wayne and his lovely bride. Hey, if anyone is going back today, I need some help.  There is a guy there selling vises that hang around your neck and sit on your chest. I lost his business card and I need his address and URL.  It was his first show and he is just introducing them to the market.  These vises are awesome.  Instead of being hunched over your fly tying bench, you can kick back in a recliner in front of the TV or even stand up.  They also fold flat so they are out of the way if you need to answer the phone or the like.  I thought they would be great for us cripples with bad backs or teaching fly tying where you could walk up to each student and show them the technique.  So, If anyone goes to the show, I need this guy’s info. The gear whore bug got me real bad.  Just had buy that twelve-piece hollow punch set to punch out foam disks for fly tying.  Of course, I had to include the two-way sharpener for the twelve-piece hollow punch set to punch out foam disks for fly tying.  Then I had to pay $3.50 apiece for a couple of 4"X6" foam squares that I knew I could get in size 12"X10" at my wife’s store for $1.25.  But of course, the foam went with the two-way sharpener for the twelve-piece hollow punch set to punch out foam disks for fly tying. Signed up for all the raffles.  Gonna win all the raffles.  Being first with your tickets in some of the raffle boxes has gotta count for something.  The door prize for the show is a boat motor and trailer. Thomas and Thomas is giving a way a 4wt(drool).  Bunch of other neato things there.          Have fun all. Oh, with some google searches, I found the vise: <http://www.ohio.com/bj/sports/2000/September/29/docs/031527.htm      Frank – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Attended subject show and got to put some faces to email names. Barry Beck was a guest tier.  Class act.  After he finished tying, he passed around a board of the fly he just tied and asked every one that "listened to the demo to take one."  Watched Harrison Steeves tie.  Another class act.  He was selling his flies for $1.50 ( That’s right- $1.50 from a world class tier on patterns he originated and made famous) and would spend an hour showing you how to tie it and others specifically asked for.  At times you forget how nice some people are that "made it to the top" in this sport. Wonder if George is going to pass out "Bastards" to those of us who have listened to him on this site.  (Sorry George- I just could not resist.) Lou

Response:

Great time at the show.  After we had lunch with Frank, Joe and SWMBO showed up and we chatted a while with Lou.  I think SWMBO is leaning toward getting into this fishing thing but she showed a LOT of CONCERN about Frank&Frank and the mid-stream massage babe at the last RRR.  Which brings up another point.  It looks like another RRR coming in August 2001.  Katie has ordered iron underwear and Steve has picked up a case of 12ga. insurance.  After such terrific water levels and temperatures over the past year, this should be a banner year for larger smallmouth.  Stay Tuned! I picked up three chicken necks (a little tougher than beef jerky but didn’t taste bad, damn pricey though) and a bunch more stuff at the show.  I’m starting to need a closet just to store it in and I STILL don’t have enough stuff to tie a single pattern!  I did find the 2/0 hooks and Tysons promises to come through with those chicken feathers .  So…….this is cheaper than buying flys, huh? After looking over the field, I settled on the Chota Brookie II boots.  I like being able to put traction soles on the toe of the boot on those Volkswagen size boulders on Brookie streams.  Good news Indian Joe, more insurance against having to carry me out next time! — Wayne(still looking at scars from Wilson’s Creek) To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

Well, you can put me down for the RRR in August 2001!!   My back ought to need more water-massaging by August, fer sure. Frank (oh yes, rub it baby!!) Church – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Great time at the show.  After we had lunch with Frank, Joe and SWMBO showed up and we chatted a while with Lou.  I think SWMBO is leaning toward getting into this fishing thing but she showed a LOT of CONCERN about Frank&Frank and the mid-stream massage babe at the last RRR.  Which brings up another point.  It looks like another RRR coming in August 2001.  Katie has ordered iron underwear and Steve has picked up a case of 12ga. insurance.  After such terrific water levels and temperatures over the past year, this should be a banner year for larger smallmouth.  Stay Tuned! I picked up three chicken necks (a little tougher than beef jerky but didn’t taste bad, damn pricey though) and a bunch more stuff at the show.  I’m starting to need a closet just to store it in and I STILL don’t have enough stuff to tie a single pattern!  I did find the 2/0 hooks and Tysons promises to come through with those chicken feathers .  So…….this is cheaper than buying flys, huh? After looking over the field, I settled on the Chota Brookie II boots.  I like being able to put traction soles on the toe of the boot on those Volkswagen size boulders on Brookie streams.  Good news Indian Joe, more insurance against having to carry me out next time! — Wayne(still looking at scars from Wilson’s Creek) To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

Great time at the show.  After we had lunch with Frank, Joe and SWMBO showed up and we chatted a while with Lou.  I think SWMBO is leaning toward getting into this fishing thing but she showed a LOT of CONCERN about Frank&Frank and the mid-stream massage babe at the last RRR.

Yeah, I’m not sure we should have shared that story.   I kept having to repeat, "This happened *before* I got there."   <g SWMBO & I got a late start due to a minor furnace problem at home, and missed the lunch and Frank by about 5 min. as it turned out.   Still managed to spot Wayne & SO in the crowd later & was asking if Lou & Frank had made it when the guy reading my r.o.f.f. fall ball hat confessed to being Lou. Great timing on that; & great to meet another roffian.   Sorry I missed ya Frank.   Turns out Wayne’s SO & mine are almost exactly the same height (or lack thereof). Roffians aside, I really enjoyed the show.   I’d never been to any similar event, and it was great to see all those goodies on display.   Having two unfinished blanks waiting in the wings, I really wasn’t in the market for any serious hardware, but SWMBO did get to try on some waders for size (progress is slow, but it’s progress), and I did enter a few raffles to dilute Frank’s chances a bit (sorry Frank, the T&T is mine.) Had no luck finding jungle cock eyes.   A couple vendors plainly said they were too expensive to bring along.   I’ll stick to Plan A for the swap. Maybe some other time. In the end, I got out cheap, only buying one book.   Had a great time, though. Joe F.

Response:

Joe,   Send me an email on my deja email with your home phone.  I have jungle cock cape.       Frank Reid

Response:

Hey Frank!  I think some of that jungle cock stuff might dress up these White Millers! — Wayne (bought some of that stuff Frank said to get…don’t know what it was or what it does but it was ONLY 50cents a pack!!) To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

Heathen!       Frank Hey Frank!  I think some of that jungle cock stuff might dress up these White Millers! — Wayne (bought some of that stuff Frank said to get…don’t know what it was or what it does but it was ONLY 50cents a pack!!) To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

Response:

Question:

Hi Possibly head down to the everglages for a few days. Trying to plan ahead for the hols. hope to hear from someone soon. Neil

Bad idea, mosquito city. go to the west coast orthe keys. Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach "The only people who have any business fishing are  young boys and married men. Everyone else should be  out getting laid." …I said that

Response:

"The only people who have any business fishing are  young boys and married men. Everyone else should be  out getting laid." …I said that

You’ve not met our beloved barrister from Rowan County. A man of many talents he can, and has, combined business, fishing, being married AND getting laid. Or… he used to could. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Head over to the Oak Hill area. Go by way of Merritt Island. Go to Titusville, across the causeway left to Haul Over Canal and just pick a spot somewhere on the route. Check a map of the area, you’ll see. John Popp in grass dead Sanford Fl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Anyone know of any fly fishing areas around Orlando,  Possibly Head down to the everglages for a few days. Trying to plan ahead for the hols. hope to hear from someone soon. Neil * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free! Check with Rick at The Fly Fisherman on Orange Ave. in Orlando. HTH, R

Response:

Hi Anyone know of any fly fishing areas around Orlando,  Possibly Head down to the everglages for a few days. Trying to plan ahead for the hols. hope to hear from someone soon. Neil * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Check with Rick at The Fly Fisherman on Orange Ave. in Orlando. HTH, R

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "The only people who have any business fishing are  young boys and married men. Everyone else should be  out getting laid." …I said that You’ve not met our beloved barrister from Rowan County. A man of many talents he can, and has, combined business, fishing, being married AND getting laid. Or… he used to could. — Ken Fortenberry

        um, well, of course, all such activities involved the same lady, of course, like when we go on family trips to the smokys and i have to call the office.         ken, will you give me a call tomorrow, please? wayno

Response:

Head over to the Oak Hill area. Go by way of Merritt Island. Go to Titusville, across the causeway left to Haul Over Canal and just pick a spot somewhere on the route. Check a map of the area, you’ll see. John Popp in grass dead Sanford Fl

They also have a location in Titusville, FWIW, but I’ve never been there.  I suspect Rick and the guys there know pretty much the whole area, however. R PS  John, Was over on Cedar Key last week and things where decent over there, plus it’s still cool (-ish, better than Orlando area, anyway), the rates at the inns are low this time of year and the crowds are light – us and a flyfishing! Virginia couple in a big trailered Whaler at the hotel marina.  Even got some of the last Stone claws at Charlie’s in Crystal River – yeee-uuumm!!  Kinda sorry to be back in Texas and hot as hell….<G. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Anyone know of any fly fishing areas around Orlando,  Possibly Head down to the everglages for a few days. Trying to plan ahead for the hols. hope to hear from someone soon. Neil * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free! Check with Rick at The Fly Fisherman on Orange Ave. in Orlando. HTH, R

Response:

Hi Anyone know of any fly fishing areas around Orlando,  Possibly Head down to the everglages for a few days. Trying to plan ahead for the hols. hope to hear from someone soon. Neil * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Question:

        As far as I’ve been able to ascertain, no one really knows exactly how far back fly fishing dates. Based on caves drawings and such, we do know that our stoop shouldered, uni-browed ancestors did, in fact, fish. Of course, early fishing techniques lacked a lot of the finesse associated with modern angling. Rods, for instance, were much shorter and heavier, and were used in a somewhat different manner than we are accustomed to. A prehistoric angler, favorite rod in hand, would wade out into a stream and take position. He’d carefully balance his tackle, assuring himself that his grip was firm and proper. After quietly surveying the water, he’d swing the rod in the classic ‘ten o’clock – one o’clock – ten o’clock’ manner. Then he’d bash a fish in the head, pick it up, and eat it raw on the spot.         This style of fishing eventually developed into two distinct areas: one group preferred ’sight bashing’, preferring to actually see a fish before swinging. The other tribe members stuck with the more old fashioned form of ‘blind bashing’. The sight-bashers soon came to hate the blind-bashers, claiming that their particular style was messing up the fishing. The blind-bashers fired back with the old traditionalism vs. neo-fishism, and the debate raged, leading to an inevitable spilt up of the tribe. One group moved upstream and the other, down. It wasn’t long before a splinter group of blind bashers decided that using longer poles was the way to go. They, too, eventually moved out to practice their particular style of fish catching. Before you knew it, ideological angling dichotomy had forced civilization to spread to the four corners of the globe. (Interestingly enough, many of these philosophical arguments continue to this day.)         Of course, early fishermen never really looked upon their labors as being a sport. Owing to the presence of other predators on the stream in those days (saber-toothed tigers, tyrannosauruses, etc.), the prehistoric angler constantly ran the risk of being eaten raw on the spot himself. When a trip to the ol’ fishing hole meant a 50/50 shot of being dinner instead of getting dinner, angling could hardly be considered recreational relaxation. It would be many years before people would look upon fishing as anything but a free, albeit risky, meal.         Our angling ancestors did, however, contribute one thing to the sport which has remained with us. One fine morning, an aboriginal angler (we’ll call him ‘Nok’) was working his favorite stream. At the time of the incident, Nok was using the forerunner of today’s electronic fish finder…that is to say he was knee-deep in the stream, bent over with his head fully submerged. As he scanned the water for his breakfast, a large, fish/angler eating cave bear was also surveying the stream for an early repast. It spotted Nok’s exposed backside, strolled over, sniffed, and then took a tentative exploratory nibble.         Now, a modern angler, no longer attuned to the wilderness environment due to ions of soft, urban living, would have surely met certain death under the same circumstances. Nok, on the other hand, reflexes sharply honed by years of eat-or-be-eaten fishing, reacted instantly. In an explosive, blinding fury of splashing, clubbing, and squealing, Nok was out of the stream and up a tree before the bear’s jaws could clamp completely shut. The astonished bear, left with nothing more than a good soaking and a small piece of loincloth dangling from one tooth, just stood and gazed upward at the terrified caveman, whose trembling had quickly denuded the tree of its leaves. After a fashion, it ambled off in search of a less frisky (and somewhat quieter) meal.         Later that evening, while sitting around the campfire, Nok regaled his small band of fellow anglers with a vivid (and, of course, slightly exaggerated) account of the day’s event. Like all good fishermen, the tribe listened quietly to the story, all the while rolling their eyes and winking at each other when Nok wasn’t looking their way. It wasn’t until Nok turned around and presented the physical evidence that they  believed that this wasn’t just another fishing tale. After much congratulatory grunting and chest pounding, the tribal elder announced that from that evening on Nok would be forever known as ‘Gup Nar’…The One That Got Away. "The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men’s lives the hours spent in fishing" – ASSYRIAN TABLET (2000 B.C.) Copyright 1997 Da’ Capn

Response:

When was the strike indicator invented?  Is that in part 2? George Adams

Response:

When was the strike indicator invented?

the day the music died… wayno

Response:

A very well researched and thought out article.  In fact there is some evidence to suggest that our uni-browed ancestors were indeed the biological forerunner of todays polarized sunglasses.     Nature, realizeing that the "Uni-Brow" enabled prehistoric man to fish better – the "uni-brow"  helping to cut down on the surface glare from the water – and being unable to develope polarized eyesight from an evolutionary aspect, procedd to evolve (remember Darwin?) a more intelligent species of hominoid who could later invent polarized sunglassed.     Contrary to the established dogma that man gave up hunter-gatherer society to form an agrarian culture to brew beer, modern theorists now opine it was for the purpose of inventing polarized sunglasses to pursue better fishing.     It is, however, well recorded that primitive man related his tales of adventure around the campfire on the night s of the full moon.  And thus, when Nok exposed his backside to prove the veracity of his tale . . . invented the term "mooning."     Practice C&R and you can kill it later . . . . . . .john

Response:

Question:

In conclusion, the project would be built on a phony premise, so it would take 4 – 5 years to fail the PhD, but it would still fail.  Sort of like the slow painful death of a played out fish.<g

Since when does the success of a PhD depend on real-world relevance? JonCook. PS: As was pointed out, any complete population dynamics model would have     to take multiple-C+R into account if in fact it is not a linear relation.

Response:

I’ve caught fish is locations like the San Juan that have clearly been caught many times and they tend to not fight very hard. Is it a learned behavior? Possibly we are inadvertently building a strain of fish the survive multiple catch and release because they don’t fight very hard, leaving more reserves for in-stream survival subsequent to release. I don’t think it would take too many generations for this to begin to be noticed, unless its already happening and we all don’t remember the hard fighting fish of yesteryears. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I think it would definitely be a good phd topic — I didn’t see any : studies that directly looked at that. There are studies that say : things like, for example, on the Yellowstone (a C+R fishery), the : average fish is caught 4.5 times a season (I’m making up numbers that : I think are close to what I remember) and that the seasonal turnover : of the population is something like 30% (all deaths — not just C+R : mortality). So you might be able to infer something from that. But I : did not see a study along the direct lines you suggest. Care to go : back to school? I don’t see why it would matter to anyone but that particular fish. Unless of course, the fisherman is worried about that particular fish, then in fact, the fish does have a lowered chance of survival.  But again, so what?  Aren’t we worried about the population? In conclusion, the project would be built on a phony premise, so it would take 4 – 5 years to fail the PhD, but it would still fail.  Sort of like the slow painful death of a played out fish.<g — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Just curious if anyone is aware of a study that has looked at changes in C&R mortality rates as a function of the number of C&R cycles — if not, this might be an interesting PhD dissertation for someone in wildlife/fisheries biology or management.

One of the big problems I see is in measuring the process.  I recently fished a stream in Idaho where they had Jaw tagged fish.  I put most fish I caught through significantly more stress than I ususally do.  I played them longer and  handled them more.  Even the fish without bands were played longer since I wanted to check if there was a band on the jaw.   Normally I never have to recessetate a fish.  On this occasion I had to recessetate two out of two fish over 12".  Not statistically significant, but … Carl

Response:

Hmmm…had to take longer to revive???  The Missoulian (Missoula Montana) just ran an artical about the high water temps this summer (it’s very hot out here…94 degrees today) and the affects this has on fish recovery.  FW&P biologist would like you to not fish if the water temps. are above or close to 70 degrees. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just curious if anyone is aware of a study that has looked at changes in C&R mortality rates as a function of the number of C&R cycles — if not, this might be an interesting PhD dissertation for someone in wildlife/fisheries biology or management. One of the big problems I see is in measuring the process.  I recently fished a stream in Idaho where they had Jaw tagged fish.  I put most fish I caught through significantly more stress than I ususally do.  I played them longer and  handled them more.  Even the fish without bands were played longer since I wanted to check if there was a band on the jaw. Normally I never have to recessetate a fish.  On this occasion I had to recessetate two out of two fish over 12".  Not statistically significant, but … Carl

Response:

I have the good fortune to live within a few miles of a small tailwater stream in New England.  The upper 1/2 mile is fly fishing only, catch & release year round. The next 3/4 mile downstream is catch & release, artificials only 7/1 to 12/31, and any method, 3 fish limit 1/1 to 6/30. These regs have been in place for more than 10 years.  Water temp seldom exceeds 60 deg. The stream is heavily stocked, and has a small poulation of native brook trout as well.  Studies by fisheries and wildlife indicate that 75% of the fish caught in the lower section are released.  Multiple catches are a way of life for both fish and fishermen.  This is a small, clear stream and dead fish are easily spotted. Very few dead fish are observed. The total seen amounts to way less than 1% of the 6500 or so trout stocked each year.  I understand that this is strictly anecdotal data, but this stream does offer a unique opportunity to observe the dynamics of a C&R area. This observation is offered only as general info on C&R mortality, and not intended to restart the "moral/ethical" debate over C&R. Tight lines!! George

Response:

Hmmmm!   This is an interesting bunch of statistics.  But I get the impression that they are not all that connected.  They are drawn from several sources (comparing apples and oranges?).   I don’t deny that a percentage of C&R’d fish perish, but the survival rates don’t come close to comparing.  Let’s say that only 70% of C&R’d fish survive — 0% of C&K’d fish survive!! So let’s leave this sort of thought process to the guys in the Ivory Towers.  It really doesn’t make that much difference to the man in the river except the accent the need for appropriate care in the releasing of fish.   There has been entirely too much ad hominem name-calling  between the the C&R and C&K factions.  I speak out in favor of killing those fish that will be eaten (I like trout) and releasing those that will not be eaten (I don’t like cleaning fish).  I do favor leaving the large, wild fish to breed, and eating only the small to medium size ones.  In stocked rivers with little or no breeding, I have much less qualms when I see a fisherman leaving with a stringer. I don’t like seeing, as I did on the coast where I grew up, are dozens and dozens of fish, many of which are inedible or unplatable. Neal G – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have read one of the recent threads citing a number of academic studies conducted on survival of C&R fish depending on a number of environmental conditions….some excellent literature searching….kudos to the person who took the time to bring some facts to our ongoing discussions on this and related issues…I only wish I could find that post. Nonetheless, I was wondering if any research has been done to look at the survival rates on fish which experience multiple catch and release cycles.  It would be interesting to know how a fish responds through multiple C&R cycles — does it become statistically more likely to die, less likely to die, or does the mortality rate remains the same. The reason I ask is that say a fish has a 5% mortality rate (95% survival) on the first C&R cycle, if the mortality rate stays the same then after the second cycle the fish has a 5% chance of dying and a 95% chance of living….and on and on.  Let’s say a fish experiences 5 C&R cycles in a season with the 5% mortality and 95% survival rate per cycle, then it would seem that that fish has a 77% chance of surviving (0.95^5) during the season under a C&R system and a 23% chance of dying (1-0.95^5).  It is easy to see under this situation the more cylces the less likely survival is even if the mortality rate is not effected. However, if the mortality rate decreases following the first or subsequent cycles (a selection toward fish more capable of surviving C&R conditions) then the impact on fish mortality would be lower.  Also, if the opposite is true (ie, the mortality rate increases due to increased cycles) then the impact on overall fish mortality would be worse. Just curious if anyone is aware of a study that has looked at changes in C&R mortality rates as a function of the number of C&R cycles — if not, this might be an interesting PhD dissertation for someone in wildlife/fisheries biology or management.             | /             |/   (         /|    –     / | C. Michael Bullard The Yellar Hammer

Seek personal peace at the end of a fly line.

Response:

: I think it would definitely be a good phd topic — I didn’t see any : studies that directly looked at that. There are studies that say : things like, for example, on the Yellowstone (a C+R fishery), the : average fish is caught 4.5 times a season (I’m making up numbers that : I think are close to what I remember) and that the seasonal turnover : of the population is something like 30% (all deaths — not just C+R : mortality). So you might be able to infer something from that. But I : did not see a study along the direct lines you suggest. Care to go : back to school? I don’t see why it would matter to anyone but that particular fish. Unless of course, the fisherman is worried about that particular fish, then in fact, the fish does have a lowered chance of survival.  But again, so what?  Aren’t we worried about the population?   In conclusion, the project would be built on a phony premise, so it would take 4 – 5 years to fail the PhD, but it would still fail.  Sort of like the slow painful death of a played out fish.<g — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

I don’t see why it would matter to anyone but that particular fish. Unless of course, the fisherman is worried about that particular fish, then in fact, the fish does have a lowered chance of survival.  But again, so what?  Aren’t we worried about the population?

I wasn’t really concerned about ‘a particular’ fish in my original post — or even a small sampling of fish — except in how the possible change in mortality as exhibited in the small sample when spread across a larger number of fish could be used to possibly model population dynamics in C&R streams.  Certainly the C&R mortality and the number of C&R cycles would not represent the full population dynamics model, but might become a part of a larger model.  This larger model could then be a useful tool for developing effective management practices for some fisheries (selective harvest, restricted seasons, limited take, controlled fishing pressure, etc) — and that is what would be of interest to fishermen. In conclusion, the project would be built on a phony premise, so it would take 4 – 5 years to fail the PhD, but it would still fail.  Sort of like the slow painful death of a played out fish.<g

What about a title like — "Mortality of (pick a species that grows large – S. trutta, for example) in (pick several exotic geographic location — New Zealand, Argentina, Chile, etc.) when exposed to multiple C&R cycles".  Now, find somebody (read sucker) to fund the research — sell it as at least a 15-20 year project.  Recruit several of your favorite fishing buddies as long-term ‘graduate’ or ‘undergraduate’ assistants and disappear on the mother of all fishing trips. :^) PS: I thought all PhD’s were slow and painful deaths — even for the survivors! — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

–             | /              |/    (         /|     —     / | C. Michael Bullard The Yellar Hammer

Response:

I have read one of the recent threads citing a number of academic studies conducted on survival of C&R fish depending on a number of environmental conditions….some excellent literature searching….kudos to the person who took the time to bring some facts to our ongoing discussions on this and related issues…I only wish I could find that post. Nonetheless, I was wondering if any research has been done to look at the survival rates on fish which experience multiple catch and release cycles.  It would be interesting to know how a fish responds through multiple C&R cycles — does it become statistically more likely to die, less likely to die, or does the mortality rate remains the same. The reason I ask is that say a fish has a 5% mortality rate (95% survival) on the first C&R cycle, if the mortality rate stays the same then after the second cycle the fish has a 5% chance of dying and a 95% chance of living….and on and on.  Let’s say a fish experiences 5 C&R cycles in a season with the 5% mortality and 95% survival rate per cycle, then it would seem that that fish has a 77% chance of surviving (0.95^5) during the season under a C&R system and a 23% chance of dying (1-0.95^5).  It is easy to see under this situation the more cylces the less likely survival is even if the mortality rate is not effected. However, if the mortality rate decreases following the first or subsequent cycles (a selection toward fish more capable of surviving C&R conditions) then the impact on fish mortality would be lower.  Also, if the opposite is true (ie, the mortality rate increases due to increased cycles) then the impact on overall fish mortality would be worse. Just curious if anyone is aware of a study that has looked at changes in C&R mortality rates as a function of the number of C&R cycles — if not, this might be an interesting PhD dissertation for someone in wildlife/fisheries biology or management.             | /              |/    (         /|     —     / | C. Michael Bullard The Yellar Hammer

Response:

Question:

I have had this happen to me on occasion. I use a hemostat and open the gap of the hook a small amount as well as off-setting the point a bit. This seems to occur most often when I’m using very small flies, 18-24. Just my 2 cents worth and it helps my hook ups when I can’t seem to hook anything.

Response:

Mike, Maybe you should talk to your Doc.  I just had knee surgery and my Doc said fishing and in particular float tubeing is great therapy.  i.e. cold water for swelling and good low impact excercise.  Talk to a sports medicine specialist.  Which is all We have in Tahoe.   As to missed hook ups?  I miss just as many from a boat as from a tube go figure. Dick W.

Response:

Soft mouths may be part of the problem, it seems when this occurs, the sharper the hook, the larger the tear it makes in the tissue, resulting in a larger oblong hole, enabling the hook to let itself work free easier. Another problem may be fish caught and released rather frequently whose hmouth hasn’t had a chance to heal yet….I mean, I’m sure we’ve all been in a place where we’ve caught the same fish twice in one outing and you know what I’m talking about. What’s the answer? Hell, I dunno…it’s not barbed or duller hooks, that’s fersure! Larry #:)#

Response:

I have seen people dunk the rod tip in the water to prevent the fish jumping. Never tried it myself preferring to keep the tension on the line as the fish jumps. That is quite difficult, I don’t need to tell you. Good observation on the angle in a float tube. I had never thought about that

In salmon fishing, it is normal to "bow to the fish" by dropping the rod tip (not necessarily into the water) when he jumps.  With such large fish, it is prudent to reduce sudden shocks to the hook hold. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Hi Dennis, Nice to see you on this newsgroup.  Sounds like you had a nice day fishing!!! As you can see, I am fairly limited this year due to the leg but still plan on taking my trip to the Mill Hole on the Kettle River this Summer!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I had a really strange occurance happen to me this weekend.   I was fishing one of my favorite lakes from a raft (tore up the ligaments in my left knee so no float tube for me this Summer!) with my Sage SP+.  The fishing was really good and I hooked into about 18 fish.  Of these 18, 4 got off via jumping and tossing the barbless fly, 1 actually made it to the boat and the rest of them had the fly pull out of their mouths during the fight.   My hooks were sharp and I didn’t feel like I was doing anything different then normal.  The only thing I can think of is the combination of the odd angle I had to sit in the raft combined with using my 9 foot SP+ (The wrong rod choice for this situation in hind sight.  Should have used my softer DS II.)  I did speak to another angler who reported that his fishing party was having the same problems.   I know fish will develop soft mouths when the water gets really warm but this is a high mountain lake and the water was still quite cool.  Any other ideas? Mike

Mike I wouldn’t think the rod or the angle has much to do with it.  Sunday, I couldn’t get a hookup or land a fish to save my life.  I think it has more to do with what the fish are taking.  Emergers and duns they have to rush, spinners and cripples they can take their time. Yesterday, they were feeding on spent trico spinners.  In retrospect, I should have been slower on the hook set.  I was probably yanking the fly out of their mouths’.  I know, it’s tough to slow down when you’re keyed for the strike.  The previous few times that I have been out, the fish were consistently taking duns and emergers and I missed only a few. Worth a try. Peter

Response:

We have a different problem in the small streams in New Mexico and Colorado.  3 to 6 " small fish jump all over a dry fly and when you snap your wrist from the sudden and violent strike, the 3" to 6" small trout flies by your ear (right ear if right handed, etc.) and lands behind you.  We have found that these "flying" fish will shoot off when released so we assume they enjoy this. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know if this applies to your situation, but I’ve found that if you apply direct pressure when a fish is facing you, pullouts are much more likely.  I apply pressure to the side when a fish is facing me and try to get it turned and fighting away from me. This is especially true in streams and rivers where you want the fish fighting the current instead of using it to their advantage. Willi I had a really strange occurance happen to me this weekend.   I was fishing one of my favorite lakes from a raft (tore up the ligaments in my left knee so no float tube for me this Summer!) with my Sage SP+.  The fishing was really good and I hooked into about 18 fish.  Of these 18, 4 got off via jumping and tossing the barbless fly, 1 actually made it to the boat and the rest of them had the fly pull out of their mouths during the fight. My hooks were sharp and I didn’t feel like I was doing anything different then normal.  The only thing I can think of is the combination of the odd angle I had to sit in the raft combined with using my 9 foot SP+ (The wrong rod choice for this situation in hind sight.  Should have used my softer DS II.)  I did speak to another angler who reported that his fishing party was having the same problems.   I know fish will develop soft mouths when the water gets really warm but this is a high mountain lake and the water was still quite cool.  Any other ideas? Mike

Response:

Hi Mike, How are you? Sounds like you haven’t given up FF! Either have I, got several 20 to 22 inch brookies and bows last Monday on the Connetquot River. It was a great day. As for fast vs slow rods. I like slow rods for casting drys and faster rods for streamers. As for loosing fish. I can loose as many fish on a fast rod as can on a slow rod. Still casting flies and telling lies. Dennis

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<<I don’t want to start a rod fight but I’ve seen fishermen of various experience levels have problems with Sage RPL+ and other very fast rods. As I understand it the SP+ is even faster. I watched a fishing friend last year on the Madison above Quake Lake lose fish after fish with a brand new RPL+. I gave him my Loomis GL-3 and he started landing fish. I admit last month I would have given my left something for the RPL+ on Gray Reef with the wind howeling in my face and the Loomis just wasn’t enough gun to reach fish that under normal circumstances would have been easy to cast to. I have used my SP+ for two years now and haven’t ever felt I lost a fish due to the rod being too stiff until this particular weekend.  In fact, on rivers, it is my rod of choice. Like I mentioned in my previous post, I normally fish in my float tube. Sitting in the tube is similar to standing thus I haven’t had a problem hooking and keeping fish.  This occurance in the raft was just unique enough that I thought I would share it and see if anybody else has ever has this type of problem who wasn’t in a full leg brace and sitting at an angle in a rubber raft <grin The most likely cause was my sitting position combined with having a stiffer rod but I wanted to find out if anybody had ever run across trout who seemed to have really soft mouths like a Silver does.  This particular lake was just rehabilitated last year so this is a different gene pool of trout and it is possible that this is a genetic characteristic of the trout that were planted in the lake. Anyway, it really doesn’t matter much.  I had a great time and the one fish I did land was the largest of the year so I have nothing to complain about. Mike

Response:

I have seen people dunk the rod tip in the water to prevent the fish jumping. Never tried it myself preferring to keep the tension on the line as the fish jumps. That is quite difficult, I don’t need to tell you. Good observation on the angle in a float tube. I had never thought about that before. Gary

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I had a really strange occurance happen to me this weekend.   I was fishing one of my favorite lakes from a raft (tore up the ligaments in my left knee so no float tube for me this Summer!) with my Sage SP+.  The fishing was really good and I hooked into about 18 fish.  Of these 18, 4 got off via jumping and tossing the barbless fly, 1 actually made it to the boat and the rest of them had the fly pull out of their mouths during the fight. My hooks were sharp and I didn’t feel like I was doing anything different then normal.  The only thing I can think of is the combination of the odd angle I had to sit in the raft combined with using my 9 foot SP+ (The wrong rod choice for this situation in hind sight.  Should have used my softer DS II.)  I did speak to another angler who reported that his fishing party was having the same problems.   I know fish will develop soft mouths when the water gets really warm but this is a high mountain lake and the water was still quite cool. Any other ideas? Mike

Response:

<<I don’t want to start a rod fight but I’ve seen fishermen of various experience levels have problems with Sage RPL+ and other very fast rods. As I understand it the SP+ is even faster. I watched a fishing friend last year on the Madison above Quake Lake lose fish after fish with a brand new RPL+. I gave him my Loomis GL-3 and he started landing fish. I admit last month I would have given my left something for the RPL+ on Gray Reef with the wind howeling in my face and the Loomis just wasn’t enough gun to reach fish that under normal circumstances would have been easy to cast to. I have used my SP+ for two years now and haven’t ever felt I lost a fish due to the rod being too stiff until this particular weekend.  In fact, on rivers, it is my rod of choice.   Like I mentioned in my previous post, I normally fish in my float tube. Sitting in the tube is similar to standing thus I haven’t had a problem hooking and keeping fish.  This occurance in the raft was just unique enough that I thought I would share it and see if anybody else has ever has this type of problem who wasn’t in a full leg brace and sitting at an angle in a rubber raft <grin The most likely cause was my sitting position combined with having a stiffer rod but I wanted to find out if anybody had ever run across trout who seemed to have really soft mouths like a Silver does.  This particular lake was just rehabilitated last year so this is a different gene pool of trout and it is possible that this is a genetic characteristic of the trout that were planted in the lake. Anyway, it really doesn’t matter much.  I had a great time and the one fish I did land was the largest of the year so I have nothing to complain about. Mike

Response:

I don’t want to start a rod fight but I’ve seen fishermen of various experience levels have problems with Sage RPL+ and other very fast rods. As I understand it the SP+ is even faster. I watched a fishing friend last year on the Madison above Quake Lake lose fish after fish with a brand new RPL+. I gave him my Loomis GL-3 and he started landing fish. I admit last month I would have given my left something for the RPL+ on Gray Reef with the wind howeling in my face and the Loomis just wasn’t enough gun to reach fish that under normal circumstances would have been easy to cast to. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had a really strange occurance happen to me this weekend.   I was fishing one of my favorite lakes from a raft (tore up the ligaments in my left knee so no float tube for me this Summer!) with my Sage SP+.  The fishing was really good and I hooked into about 18 fish.  Of these 18, 4 got off via jumping and tossing the barbless fly, 1 actually made it to the boat and the rest of them had the fly pull out of their mouths during the fight. My hooks were sharp and I didn’t feel like I was doing anything different then normal.  The only thing I can think of is the combination of the odd angle I had to sit in the raft combined with using my 9 foot SP+ (The wrong rod choice for this situation in hind sight.  Should have used my softer DS II.) I did speak to another angler who reported that his fishing party was having the same problems.   I know fish will develop soft mouths when the water gets really warm but this is a high mountain lake and the water was still quite cool.  Any other ideas? Mike

Response:

I don’t know if this applies to your situation, but I’ve found that if you apply direct pressure when a fish is facing you, pullouts are much more likely.  I apply pressure to the side when a fish is facing me and try to get it turned and fighting away from me. This is especially true in streams and rivers where you want the fish fighting the current instead of using it to their advantage. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I had a really strange occurance happen to me this weekend.   I was fishing one of my favorite lakes from a raft (tore up the ligaments in my left knee so no float tube for me this Summer!) with my Sage SP+.  The fishing was really good and I hooked into about 18 fish.  Of these 18, 4 got off via jumping and tossing the barbless fly, 1 actually made it to the boat and the rest of them had the fly pull out of their mouths during the fight. My hooks were sharp and I didn’t feel like I was doing anything different then normal.  The only thing I can think of is the combination of the odd angle I had to sit in the raft combined with using my 9 foot SP+ (The wrong rod choice for this situation in hind sight.  Should have used my softer DS II.)  I did speak to another angler who reported that his fishing party was having the same problems.   I know fish will develop soft mouths when the water gets really warm but this is a high mountain lake and the water was still quite cool.  Any other ideas? Mike

Response:

I had a really strange occurance happen to me this weekend.   I was fishing one of my favorite lakes from a raft (tore up the ligaments in my left knee so no float tube for me this Summer!) with my Sage SP+.  The fishing was really good and I hooked into about 18 fish.  Of these 18, 4 got off via jumping and tossing the barbless fly, 1 actually made it to the boat and the rest of them had the fly pull out of their mouths during the fight.   My hooks were sharp and I didn’t feel like I was doing anything different then normal.  The only thing I can think of is the combination of the odd angle I had to sit in the raft combined with using my 9 foot SP+ (The wrong rod choice for this situation in hind sight.  Should have used my softer DS II.)  I did speak to another angler who reported that his fishing party was having the same problems.   I know fish will develop soft mouths when the water gets really warm but this is a high mountain lake and the water was still quite cool.  Any other ideas? Mike

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – HEY, THANKS FOR THAT BIT OF INFO ON THE CHICKEN FEED.THOSE PEOPLE KNOW ALL THE TRICKS!WENT WADE FISHING THIS EVENING AND NAILED 2 NICE REDFISH,USING A D.O.A.SHRIMP.WAS HOPING FOR A SNOOK BUT NO SUCH LUCK.          I really feel for you. Fish in Lake Monro/St.Johns are nada. The waters too high inshore. I tried a bit yesterday but the wind was too high and water still within 6" of the breakwater. The reports are snook is off due to the muddy out run and winds. Oh well in about a month it should clear but then the monsoon season starts. Ain’t it a bunmmer to live so close to some of the best fishing in the world and it be off ?                                                           John Popp                                                        in Sanford Fl.

HEY TELL ME ABOUT IT!THE WEATHER HAS GOT EVERYBODY STIMIED.I FEEL SORRY FOR THE GUIDES WHO MAKE A LIVING OUT OF IT.LIKE I SAID I WAS WADING THE OTHER DAY WHEN I CAUGHT THOSE REDS.I OWN A BOAT BUT IT HASN’T BEEN IN THE WATER IN 2 MONTHS!AND WE’RE HAVING SOME GOOD TIDES RIGHT NOW.I LIVE ON A BARRIER ISLAND AND THE RAIN TODAY PUT A FOOT AND A HALF OF WATER IN THE STREETS.HAD A FRIEND OVER FROM SANFORD THIS PAST WEEKEND AND HE TOLD ME THAT THE WATER WAS WAY UP OVER THERE.OH WELL,IT CAN’T KEEP UP TO MUCH LONGER,BUT LIKE YOU SAID THEN WE GET THE SUMMER TIME DONT FLEECE CATCH& RELEASE                JON

Response:

HEY, THANKS FOR THAT BIT OF INFO ON THE CHICKEN FEED.THOSE PEOPLE KNOW ALL THE TRICKS!WENT WADE FISHING THIS EVENING AND NAILED 2 NICE REDFISH,USING A D.O.A.SHRIMP.WAS HOPING FOR A SNOOK BUT NO SUCH LUCK.

         I really feel for you. Fish in Lake Monro/St.Johns are nada. The waters too high inshore. I tried a bit yesterday but the wind was too high and water still within 6" of the breakwater. The reports are snook is off due to the muddy out run and winds. Oh well in about a month it should clear but then the monsoon season starts. Ain’t it a bunmmer to live so close to some of the best fishing in the world and it be off ?                                                           John Popp                                                        in Sanford Fl.

Response:

I GUESS I NEVER REALIZED THAT MULLET COULD TRAVEL THAT FAR UP A RIVER!I MEAN,I’VE SEEN THEM IN CRYSTAL RIVER BUT,THE RIVER IS SO CLOSE TO THE GULF.LIKE THE MANATEE WHERE I LIVE.(LIVE ON ANNA MARIA ISLAND)MULLET DO GO UP THE MANATEE YOU KNOW 5-7 MILES ,BUT ALL THE WAY TO LAKE MONROE!!THATS GOT TO BE OVER A HUNDRED MILES!I HAVE FISHED LAKE MONROE & LAKE JESSUP BEFORE,AND YES I DID CATCH A STINGRAY.I THOUGHT THAT STRANGE TOO.BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN A MULLET.THE THEROY ON CATCHING THEM IS GOOD TOO.I’VE HEARD OF IT DONE THE SAME WAY OVER HERE BUT WITH DOUGH BALLS.BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN MULLET IN A FEEDING FRENZY,AS YOU SO DESCRIBED.ROILING THE WATER.DO YOU HAVE A CAM-CORDER?I’VE SNICHED A FEW MULLET IN MY DAY AND I KNOW THE FIGHT THEY CAN PUT,ALLBEIT THEY WERE HOOKED IN VARIOUS SITES ON THE BODY.I COULD JUST IMAGINE ONE ON A                             JON

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I GUESS I NEVER REALIZED THAT MULLET COULD TRAVEL THAT FAR UP A RIVER!I MEAN,I’VE SEEN THEM IN CRYSTAL RIVER BUT,THE RIVER IS SO CLOSE TO THE GULF.LIKE THE MANATEE WHERE I LIVE.(LIVE ON ANNA MARIA ISLAND)MULLET DO GO UP THE MANATEE YOU KNOW 5-7 MILES ,BUT ALL THE WAY TO LAKE MONROE!!THATS GOT TO BE OVER A HUNDRED MILES!I HAVE FISHED LAKE MONROE & LAKE JESSUP BEFORE,AND YES I DID CATCH A STINGRAY.I THOUGHT THAT STRANGE TOO.BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN A MULLET.THE THEROY ON CATCHING THEM IS GOOD TOO.I’VE HEARD OF IT DONE THE SAME WAY OVER HERE BUT WITH DOUGH BALLS.BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN MULLET IN A FEEDING FRENZY,AS YOU SO DESCRIBED.ROILING THE WATER.DO YOU HAVE A CAM-CORDER?I’VE SNICHED A FEW MULLET IN MY DAY AND I KNOW THE FIGHT THEY CAN PUT,ALLBEIT THEY WERE HOOKED IN VARIOUS SITES ON THE BODY.I COULD JUST IMAGINE ONE ON A                             JON

      No, I’ve never seen mullet in Monro either but Rodman spillway is 70 miles north, closer to Palatka which is about midway between Jacksonville and Sanford and is brackish tidewater. Try the chiken feed and you’ll see the difference, dough balls are larger and have a different sink rate other than that I don’t know why but it happens. I picked it up from some older black people fishing with cane poles. I’m not much of a fly fisherman, just enjoy it and keep on trying. I am not by any means a purist, use baits and mini jigs when called for and am of the mind that the main idea is to catch fish and really enjoy playing all of them. I can enjoy hooking a croaker like some people go after bill fish.                                                       John Popp                                                     in Sanford Fl.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I GUESS I NEVER REALIZED THAT MULLET COULD TRAVEL THAT FAR UP A RIVER!I MEAN,I’VE SEEN THEM IN CRYSTAL RIVER BUT,THE RIVER IS SO CLOSE TO THE GULF.LIKE THE MANATEE WHERE I LIVE.(LIVE ON ANNA MARIA ISLAND)MULLET DO GO UP THE MANATEE YOU KNOW 5-7 MILES ,BUT ALL THE WAY TO LAKE MONROE!!THATS GOT TO BE OVER A HUNDRED MILES!I HAVE FISHED LAKE MONROE & LAKE JESSUP BEFORE,AND YES I DID CATCH A STINGRAY.I THOUGHT THAT STRANGE TOO.BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN A MULLET.THE THEROY ON CATCHING THEM IS GOOD TOO.I’VE HEARD OF IT DONE THE SAME WAY OVER HERE BUT WITH DOUGH BALLS.BUT NEVER HAVE I SEEN MULLET IN A FEEDING FRENZY,AS YOU SO DESCRIBED.ROILING THE WATER.DO YOU HAVE A CAM-CORDER?I’VE SNICHED A FEW MULLET IN MY DAY AND I KNOW THE FIGHT THEY CAN PUT,ALLBEIT THEY WERE HOOKED IN VARIOUS SITES ON THE BODY.I COULD JUST IMAGINE ONE ON A                             JON       No, I’ve never seen mullet in Monro either but Rodman spillway is 70 miles north, closer to Palatka which is about midway between Jacksonville and Sanford and is brackish tidewater. Try the chiken feed and you’ll see the difference, dough balls are larger and have a different sink rate other than that I don’t know why but it happens. I picked it up from some older black people fishing with cane poles. I’m not much of a fly fisherman, just enjoy it and keep on trying. I am not by any means a purist, use baits and mini jigs when called for and am of the mind that the main idea is to catch fish and really enjoy playing all of them. I can enjoy hooking a croaker like some people go after bill fish.                                                       John Popp                                                     in Sanford Fl.

HEY, THANKS FOR THAT BIT OF INFO ON THE CHICKEN FEED.THOSE PEOPLE KNOW ALL THE TRICKS!WENT WADE FISHING THIS EVENING AND NAILED 2 NICE REDFISH,USING A D.O.A.SHRIMP.WAS HOPING FOR A SNOOK BUT NO SUCH LUCK.

Response:

Question:

How far are you traveling to fish thses rivers? Don’t expect springs or sockeye anymore though you can get springs in the Vedder. The Vedder has 10’s of thousands of fish this time of year; and just as many anglers. Don’t bother unless you go on a week day. Don’t bother if a typical BC monsoon session is on as it blows out to thick clay banks fairly quickly. For coho use small streamers; a local pattern called the Rolled Muddler is the current fav. Also the Coho blue (tinsel body, green calf or BT with dark blue over) go small sizes 8 to 10 3xl for the most part. Egg patterns and egg sucking leeches work for fish that have been in the river a while. Chum take anything hot orange or pink dead drifted across their noses. The Harrison is beautiful. You should have a boat but it can be fished from shore. Springs are stickly closed as the run is in serious decline. Lots of room on this river. Has excellent cutthroat fishing but hasn’t been fishing well due to high water (wet fall) needs dry spell to hold fish. Nearby Chehalis River is where Harrison fish are bound. Don’t bother with the Stave very short river headed by a dam. Some sporadic trout and coho. Loads of spawning chum; leave them alone.

Response:

Help!  I’d like to do some fishing soon on the Vedder or Harrison or Stave Rivers.  Any info would be appreciated.  I like coho or chums (I’m into catch & release anyway) or sockeye or springs.  Please email me at to see the responses.  Thanks!  :-) K Lawson

Response:

Help!  I’d like to do some fishing soon on the Vedder or Harrison or Stave Rivers.  Any info would be appreciated.  I like coho or chums (I’m into catch & release anyway) or sockeye or springs.  Please email me at to see the responses.  Thanks!  :-) K Lawson

Vedder – very crowded. Take your own rock and don’t expect to fly fish, shoulder to shoulder bait fishing. Can be busier on a weekday. Harrison – fished it 2 weeks ago, caught 0, but saw some coho. Stave – no report. The salmon are just starting to show. Next few weeks will improve. B.

Response:

Question:

Can anyone explain the secret to working with deer hair?  I can ty most other materials reasonably well, however the secret of working with deer hair escapes me.  I’ve had it demonstrated in classes, and have read various books – maybe there’s a simple trick I’m missing – what’s the magic? Thanks in advance, Jon Kreski — EDP Auditor 3 yrs experience (8 yrs Internal Audit)  -

Response:

Can anyone explain the secret to working with deer hair?  I can ty most other materials reasonably well, however the secret of working with deer hair escapes me.  I’ve had it

Classical answer is: — on bare metal shank (i.e. slippery;  thread coverage inhibits hair’s spinning uniformly) — place cleaned pinch of hair (fluff removed) — take not one but two turns of thread — initially loose, not tight — then tighten decisively, with a firm continuous pull. This should cause the hair to spin reasonably uniformly.  If so, then you can see about packing the whole rearwards with thumbnails, winding thread back and forward through the packed hair for extra firmness, etc. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Can anyone explain the secret to working with deer hair?  I can ty most other materials reasonably well, however the secret of working with deer hair escapes me.  I’ve had it demonstrated in classes, and have read various books – maybe there’s a simple trick I’m missing – what’s the magic?

Hi Jon The trick in working with deer hair is the material being matched to the job.  If you are tying wings and tails you need one type of hair and if you are spinning the hair you need another type Wings & Tails – best hair is located on the hide along the back bone, the shoulder, and the rump.  In small packages this hair is best recognized by the dark grey color in the center part of the hair fibers. Spinning – best hair is located on the hide down on the rib and belly.   This hair is best recognized by the light grey color in the center part of the fiber. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

try wrapping loosely first slippin it in between yer thumband forefinger of the hand that yer holding the hair.  do this twice, successfully tighten and then buckle down.  Remember u can rebunch it and slide it back around the shank. stack it baby. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone explain the secret to working with deer hair?  I can ty most other materials reasonably well, however the secret of working with deer hair escapes me.  I’ve had it demonstrated in classes, and have read various books – maybe there’s a simple trick I’m missing – what’s the magic? Thanks in advance, Jon Kreski — EDP Auditor 3 yrs experience (8 yrs Internal Audit)  -

Response:

Question:

Hello, I am new to this newsgroup and fly fishing.  Please provide me with any information on fly fishing in south central Pennsylvania.  Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. Tight Lines, Wendel

Response:

Head for the Yellow Breeches near Carlisle, PA.  It’s beautiful and it’s convenient…in fact too convenient on weekends wwhen way too many folks show up.  My suggestion, take a day off from work and check it out.  Also, be sure and swing by Yellow Breeches Outfitters. Some really nice helpful folks who can tell you where to fish, etc.  Cold Spring Anglers also helpful. Good luck, and have fun! Kevin

Response:

Don’t neglect the top-notch smallmouth fishing in the Susquehanna and Juniata rivers.  I drive past the potomac (which I love) several times a year to tangle with those porkchops. Dave

Response:

There are several streams in the area, some are stocked andd several have fly fishing only sections. A great reference is Penn. Trout Streams by Meck, available at most fly shops.E-mail me for more info.

Response:

Question:

By chance, is there a FF FAQ. I just started FF this year and I’m really getting into it. In fact, the only flies that I used this year were ones that I tied myself. The problem is that I only had success with one type of fly, that being the basic hackle fly. I need to find a source of fly tying info, such as how to’s and different types of flies. Any help would be greatly appreciated. If it helps, I fish mostly for speckle trout, pike and bass, although I’ve only caught the specks on the fly Thanks, Greg.

Response:

Seems like the year is turning early here in CT. Already one of my favorite rivers, the Housatonic, is filling with drifting leaves. Its rapidly getting to the point where fishing is more like raking leaves with a single-tined rake. Did summer really slip away so quickly? Or is this just a case of getting a bit older? JL 8-Wt Editor

Response:

Seems like the year is turning early here in CT. Already one of my favorite rivers, the Housatonic, is filling with drifting leaves. Its rapidly getting to the point where fishing is more like raking leaves with a single-tined rake. Did summer really slip away so quickly? Or is this just a case of getting a bit older?

The Aspens and Gambels Oaks turned early here in Colorado. Could it mean an early winter?  Could it mean lots of snow? Should I put away my fly-rod and get out my skis? — -Wayne Trzyna

Response:

By chance, is there a FF FAQ. I just started FF this year and I’m really getting into it. In fact, the only flies that I used this year were ones that I tied myself. The problem is that I only had success with one type of fly, that being the basic hackle fly. I need to find a source of fly tying info, such as how to’s and different types of flies. Any help would be greatly appreciated. If it helps, I fish mostly for speckle trout, pike and bass, although I’ve only caught the specks on the fly Thanks, Greg.

I’m also interested in a FF FAQ, can anybody help me?

Response: