Question:

…you’re married, right? jeff (with bleedin kneecaps and poor reception) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   I tried the "work and you shall earn" bit for quite a  while, so I’m trying  the "beg and you shall receive"  strategy for a change.  It’s a heck of a lot easier  on the feet, but a bit harder on the knees. See the thread that Mu started about Norman Maclean.  Very enlightening.

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It’s hit or miss time for the Batten Kill this time of

Nice TR. Often one learns far more from such days, than days when one "has a ball".  One interesting point you make, is that one of course then has to implement what one learns, just knowing it, does no good! TL MC

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Good report snipped. I sat on the bank and watched hundreds of duns climb up on rocks. I photographed some imago Hendriksons and noticed the brown eyes and segmented red body contrasting from the gray eyes and yellowish body of the subimago.

How about posting them to ABPF? Willi

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How about posting them to ABPF?

Thanks Willi. I will do that. I doubt they’ll come out too good as you need the hi-res one to see the detail. That file is over 2.5M. I will post a few up later. — Gary M

Response:

 I have that problem as well, particularly when  it’s cold & my brain and fingers are numb and  the thought of redoing the leader, tippet, etc.  becomes overwhelming.  Often the best thing  that can happen to me is to snag & break off  my fly; that forces me to act.

You mean fishin’ line and lures, right? — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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 I’ve been tempted, lor’, how I’ve been tempted !  So I get down on my knees and pray, and God  gives me the strength to continue.  And I just  *know* things will get better once I catch a fish…

See the thread that Mu started about Norman Maclean.  Very enlightening. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

It’s hit or miss time for the Batten Kill this time of year. I envy anyone who lives nearby, as they can monitor the peak times of day for activity without the investment of a 150 mile car journey. This same weekend last year the river was high, cold and way too early for large scale Spring hatches (although it was a day in the 60s). This year I thought would be even worse, as this was the first year in 8 years I remember snow on the mountains. On Saturday it was 53F ambient, sunny, with a biting cold wind coming up the valley from New York. Water temps were about 47F. I got suited up at 12:30pm. No insect activity at all, so I nymphed for 1 hour. Missed one nice fish, but I was in a risky spot evidenced by the fact that any shift in weight gave me the sickening feeling of almost being washed downstream. I decided to head up closer to Arlington and I parked near the green bridge on River Road. There was a nice Blue Quill (Iron Blue Dun) hatch coming off and lasted most of the afternoon. No fish working them. Around 2pm, peaking at 3pm and ceasing at 5:30pm the Light Hendriksons started. Strong hatch. No fish worked the duns. Nymphs were not working for me, or any of the two other anglers. I would love to get Dave LaCourse up there, or some other ROFF nymph magician as a litmus test, as I am below average nympher on my best day. I was chilled to the bone from the wind and the water, so I retired to bank and chatted with the other anglers who had done the same. All dressed up with nowhere to go we watched the river alive with bugs and not a single rise. This is not that unusal for Hendriksons early season, the nymphs being preferential to trout, but when the nymphs are working either it is Battenkillitus! A guy from the local Orvis store nymphed through and joined us on the bank. The general consensus seems to be this is the year of the Battenkill’s comeback. He had taken a nice fish on a lure at our present spot a few weeks back, and the other guy had lost a 18-20" brown the week before on an even stronger Hendrikson hatch. Both of the guys gave up and I was about to do the same when I noticed a splash in front of where I was standing. I got in the water and tried to work upstrem to get the best float. I got 10 casts in but the upstream wind and my 12′ 6x leader gave me a case of what I call "delayed, confused dry fly landing" whereby the fly lands 3 feet upstream and 2 secs after the line hits the water. Eagerness prevented me from taking remedial action, until I could stand it no more and I took 3′ off the end. There are many kinds of patience to be acquired when fly fishing and I am deficient in the area of taking my time to get things right on my tackle. I have that irrational fear that the fish will stop feeding, the river will drain away or some other angler will bully in and take the fish first. On this last point, there was no one left on the river … I worked upstream more. Now 5 fish worked in the target area. A few splashy rises I equate with young fish but one was nebbing duns regualarly with hardly an imprint on the surface. Third cast he took my fly and my strike was took fast. He looked to be a couple of inches over a foot long. I never felt weight, but I retrieved a wispy, flyless leader. The fish stopped rising and my one chance that day was gone. I sat on the bank and watched hundreds of duns climb up on rocks. I photographed some imago Hendriksons and noticed the brown eyes and segmented red body contrasting from the gray eyes and yellowish body of the subimago. At 6:30pm I could see no sign of a spinner fall and the   cold was unbearable, so I called it a day. Next day was forecast rain and high 50s. It actually was 30s and ice pellets mixed with snow bounced off the windshield as I drove to the river. I did not suit up. The rest of this week is to be similar weather-wise. I hope this is the year of the Battenkill.  I personally consider this kind of day a good day for me on this river, errors included. Though errors are mitigated by opportunities (when you only get one opportunity it is tough) I will relish the take and forget the "break". Yes, it can be a temperamental, unforgiving and obstinate river, but I do love its challenges. I don’t know if anyone had read John Ingliss Hall’s, "Fly Fishing a Highland Stream". He captures my relationship with this river better than I could ever craft in words. Fingers crossed for 2002. — Gary M

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Question:

Actually they are not. Change in angle of attack (not pitch)  changes the airspeed. Pitch change and angle of attack change are not always coincident, as we both well know. And of course, increased  pitch can indeed make the aircraft go up, since it can change the airspeed and therefore the power requirement, and the excess power causes the aircraft to climb.

As we say in my field, "Everything is deeply intertwingled."  Most control inputs on aircraft are NOT isolated in their effects.

Response:

Check out the latest instrument flying handbook (page 5-17). Entering a constant rate climb is different to managing a constant rate climb once you’re established – if you’re not entering it right and hence not getting established right then it probably is difficult to get it all sorted out. If you’re trying to do this in 500 foot chunks (pattern A, pattern B etc.) try a 3000 foot climb, that will give you plenty of time to work out all the relationships. Performance = power + attitude So know what power setting and what pitch angle gets the result you want, set those values and the plane will do what you want. Mat

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m about 8 hours into my instrument training and am having triouble with constant rate climbs and descents. I Just can’t seem to nail the climb or descent rate. I know that I am supposed to pitch for vertical speed and adjust power for airspeed, but I’m still all over the place. The 5-6 second lag on the VSI is throwing me off. Any suggestions? -Dennis

Response:

Learn the pitch attitude on the AI and the power that give you specific performance. Maintain attitude/power setting to see if that gives you what you want and adjust accordingly. Just don’t chase the airspeed and VSI needles. Bracket it in with small pitch or power changes. Kind of like tracking a course .. track a heading .. evaluate it’s effect .. then change heading if needed. It might help to go out VFR and make a list of the attitude and power combos that give specific descent/climb/airspeed. Write these down and memorize them as starting points in the future. I think you’re on the right track with pitching to vertical speed and adjust airspeed with power.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m about 8 hours into my instrument training and am having triouble with constant rate climbs and descents. I Just can’t seem to nail the climb or descent rate. I know that I am supposed to pitch for vertical speed and adjust power for airspeed, but I’m still all over the place. The 5-6 second lag on the VSI is throwing me off. Any suggestions? -Dennis

Response:

Well, I looked up "intertwingled", and I couldn’t find it. The nearest I  could find  is "intertwined" and "intermingled", so I will assume your word "intertwingled" is a coinage of a word to mean something between the two, or perhaps a combination thereof. The thing I fail to see is your point, unless you mean, for example, that there is an intertwingling when a  change of pitch results in a change of angle of attack which results in a change in airspeed which results in a change of the power required to maintain altitude, thus the aircraft cl;imbs. Which is what I said in the first place, so I agree.  It’s intertwingled.  So one could maintain that a pitch change is what makes the aircraft climb.   But it would indicate a lack of understanding, don’t you agree? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually they are not. Change in angle of attack (not pitch)  changes the airspeed. Pitch change and angle of attack change are not always coincident, as we both well know. And of course, increased  pitch can indeed make the aircraft go up, since it can change the airspeed and therefore the power requirement, and the excess power causes the aircraft to climb. As we say in my field, "Everything is deeply intertwingled."  Most control inputs on aircraft are NOT isolated in their effects.

Response:

Well, I looked up "intertwingled", and I couldn’t find it. The nearest I  could find  is "intertwined" and "intermingled", so I will assume your word "intertwingled" is a coinage of a word to mean something between the two, or perhaps a combination thereof.

You’re right, it’s a made up word, but it was coined by one of the key people in the field so it shows up from time to time. The thing I fail to see is your point, unless you mean, for example, that there is an intertwingling when a  change of pitch results in a change of angle of attack which results in a change in airspeed which results in a change of the power required to maintain altitude, thus the aircraft climbs.

Changing the pitch, changes the angle of attack, which increases lift and causes the plane to climb.  It also slows the plane down, which decreases lift.  Of course drag also plays into this, which all means that you just can’t change one control in isolation to the others no matter what you are trying to accomplish. Back when I was working for the Army, another Army lab nearby did some Human Engineering work with a fly-by-wire helicopter system.  They totally decoupled the controls as the pilot saw them:  The "collective" made you go up and down at a rate proportional to it’s displacment , the "cyclic" caused you to translate in the direction of it’s displacement, the pedals just rotated the aircraft at a speed proportional their displacment.  It evidentally drove anybody who really knew how to fly helicopters crazy as they wanted to put in the corrections that their training had conditioned them to know were required.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I looked up "intertwingled", and I couldn’t find it. The nearest I  could find  is "intertwined" and "intermingled", so I will assume your word "intertwingled" is a coinage of a word to mean something between the two, or perhaps a combination thereof. You’re right, it’s a made up word, but it was coined by one of the key people in the field so it shows up from time to time. The thing I fail to see is your point, unless you mean, for example, that there is an intertwingling when a  change of pitch results in a change of angle of attack which results in a change in airspeed which results in a change of the power required to maintain altitude, thus the aircraft climbs. Changing the pitch, changes the angle of attack, which increases lift and causes the plane to climb.  It also slows the plane down, which decreases lift.  Of course drag also plays into this, which all means that you just can’t change one control in isolation to the others no matter what you are trying to accomplish.

There may be a momentary increase in lift, which causes an acceleration upwards, but I would not call it "causing the plane to climb".  I think it is more aptly called "swooping", which takes place until the aircraft returns to steady state. Steady state climbing has nothing to do with increasing lift.  It is due to excess of power.   Lift is equal to weight as it was in level flight. (Yes I know: sum of upward forces = sum of downward forces, for the purists). And one other thing.  It is quite possible to change one control in isolation to the others.  Whjat is variable is the aircraft’s resulting performance. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Back when I was working for the Army, another Army lab nearby did some Human Engineering work with a fly-by-wire helicopter system.  They totally decoupled the controls as the pilot saw them:  The "collective" made you go up and down at a rate proportional to it’s displacment , the "cyclic" caused you to translate in the direction of it’s displacement, the pedals just rotated the aircraft at a speed proportional their displacment.  It evidentally drove anybody who really knew how to fly helicopters crazy as they wanted to put in the corrections that their training had conditioned them to know were required.

Response:

Well, I looked up "intertwingled", and I couldn’t find it. The nearest I  could find  is "intertwined" and "intermingled", so I will assume your word "intertwingled" is a coinage of a word to mean something between the two, or perhaps a combination thereof. You’re right, it’s a made up word, but it was coined by one of the key people in the field so it shows up from time to time.

Which field is that?  And who? Just curious, John

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I looked up "intertwingled", and I couldn’t find it. The nearest I  could find  is "intertwined" and "intermingled", so I will assume your word "intertwingled" is a coinage of a word to mean something between the two, or perhaps a combination thereof. You’re right, it’s a made up word, but it was coined by one of the key people in the field so it shows up from time to time. Which field is that?  And who?

Systems Analysis.  Tom DeMarco (principle guy at Yourdon).

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Yes, I was taught to lead with a power setting. The instructor even had me make up a list of typical power settings and post them on the panel. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you know the power setting and pitch that will give you the desired performance it should be easy.  Just set the power and pitch and the plane will climb at the desired rate.  Same thing for descents.  Don’t chase the VSI. Mike MU-2 I’m about 8 hours into my instrument training and am having triouble with constant rate climbs and descents. I Just can’t seem to nail the climb or descent rate. I know that I am supposed to pitch for vertical speed and adjust power for airspeed, but I’m still all over the place. The 5-6 second lag on the VSI is throwing me off. Any suggestions? -Dennis

– "ground zero" is clearing up, but the fallout from the towers still rains down around the world.

Response:

I struggled with this too until a seemingly obvious discovery was made; I wasn’t using the AI to set pitch.  After years of flying slippery gliders w/o AIs, and transitioning to  flying lightly loaded light aircraft, it never occurred to me to use the AI to set pitch in a climb or descent. Why?  Well, the slippery stuff is quite sensitive to pitch and not as stable as light planes, but since you fly it in turbulent conditions most of the time, and because they lack good visible references over the nose, and because power is constant (0), and because they are usually cranked over in a steep bank, I ended up using the airspeed most of time (the glider VSI is useless in determining pitch).  That is, look at the horizon then calibrate it by looking at the airspeed (esp airspeed trend).  Anyway, this works quite well in lightplanes, even under the hood when you combine it with the VSI…. at least up to a point… My instructors never really noticed except that my climbs and descents weren’t always as crisp as they should be.  I slowly discovered that I could use the AI to set a specific pitch attitude along with a specific rpm/mp to get a specific climb or descent.  One bar up, one bar down, etc.  I know the old pros here are probably snickering but I wonder if they specifically tell students how to use line widths on the AI to set up a specific pitch (?). No one told me that since my first instructional flights back in the 70s — and they probably should have covered up the AI then.  Otis, you were the first person in this post to specifically state what  one should do.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Learn the pitch attitude on the AI and the power that give you specific performance. Maintain attitude/power setting to see if that gives you what you want and adjust accordingly. Just don’t chase the airspeed and VSI needles. Bracket it in with small pitch or power changes. Kind of like tracking a course .. track a heading .. evaluate it’s effect .. then change heading if needed. It might help to go out VFR and make a list of the attitude and power combos that give specific descent/climb/airspeed. Write these down and memorize them as starting points in the future. I think you’re on the right track with pitching to vertical speed and adjust airspeed with power. I’m about 8 hours into my instrument training and am having triouble with constant rate climbs and descents. I Just can’t seem to nail the climb or descent rate. I know that I am supposed to pitch for vertical speed and adjust power for airspeed, but I’m still all over the place. The 5-6 second lag on the VSI is throwing me off. Any suggestions? -Dennis

Response:

Just fly the airplane. Get used to it. Add some power, pitch up if needed, trim, and maintain steady climb. Take power off, pitch down if needed, trim, and keep a steady descent. Just get a feel for it — there’s nothing mechanical about it. Getting a feel for the airplane you fly will tell you how much of each to do so that you can arrive at the desired point quickly and without too much fishing for the right settings. Go out on your own with the airplane, better without instructor on board, nobody to contaminate your thought process and play a couple of hours in changing its configuration to desired climbs and descents until you become smooth. Go slow flight, back and forth until you get a sense for the acceleration and deceleration while doing pitch and power changes and keeping level or exact VSI numbers. At one point I had memorized the setting on the Archer, until they rebuilt the engine and it felt like it got more power, then I had to get resettled so that I could fly my IFR routines smoothly.  Forget about the physics discussions, most folks love to talk about a subject they lack — you need solid differential calculus to truly claim to understand how exactly the forces interact but thankfully it is not needed. Just fly the damn thing.         D.         PP_ASEL IA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m about 8 hours into my instrument training and am having triouble with constant rate climbs and descents. I Just can’t seem to nail the climb or descent rate. I know that I am supposed to pitch for vertical speed and adjust power for airspeed, but I’m still all over the place. The 5-6 second lag on the VSI is throwing me off. Any suggestions? -Dennis

Response:

Yeah, find a power and pitch combo that will give you the performance you want.  When you want a certain constant rate climb just set your power, set your pitch(and maintain it) wait till the aircraft stabilizes and then make final corrections.  Usually the aircraft will stabilize at the target airspeed if you are patient and you won’t find yourself chasing needles. Use the VSI only as a trend instrument unless you have a Vario or IVSI, even then (1) Power,for climb (2) Pitch, to airspeed (3) verify Rate when stabilized at target airspeed.  With a little practice this sequence becomes automatic , and very reliable.  Once the numbers are determined the only variant factors are mainly, load(gross wt.), altitude, configuration , and C.G. Happy Flying R.Wallace CFIAIM

Response:

That’s how I was taught early on .. and I learned back in the 70s too. One bar .. two bar .. up .. down .. xxxx rpm. I think most problems chasing the needles come from dwelling on certain instruments and not maintaining a good scan with the AI as "home base". Actually .. there’s an old book I have laying around somewhere .. I can’t recall the exact title .. I want to say "Performance Flying’"??? Anyway it explains a lot of this and actually gives examples of attitude and power for several different aircraft. I’ll try to find it and post exact title. Don’t know if it’s still available or not.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I struggled with this too until a seemingly obvious discovery was made; I wasn’t using the AI to set pitch.

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Thanks for all of your suggestions. Sounds like I need to go out and do a little experimenting with the plane on my own to find the right combinations of pitch/power to get the right results.

Response:

I’m about 8 hours into my instrument training and am having triouble with constant rate climbs and descents. I Just can’t seem to nail the climb or descent rate. I know that I am supposed to pitch for vertical speed and adjust power for airspeed, but I’m still all over the place.

I don’t want to get into a pitch/power argument here, but… You already have your constant airspeed climb and descent, right? Set up the exact same way. Note your climb or descent rate. Assuming a fixed pitch propeller, add or reduce power by 100 rpm increments, maintaining the same airspeed (you’re already trimmed for it, aren’t you?) until you get the rate you want. Now you’ll know the pitch/power combination for that rate in your airplane. The 5-6 second lag on the VSI is throwing me off. Any suggestions?

You used the word "lag." So you already know the answer. WAIT the 5-6 seconds before you do anything else! – Mark Kolber APA, Denver, Colorado www.midlifeflight.com       email? replace "spamaway" with "mkolber

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Okay Capt…..   when you are 100′ agl on final in your Boeing and your speed degrades, you push the nose down right…???     Read the Delta crash report at DFW many years ago and you will be enlightened…. John….. an almost 20,000 hour pilot who has is figured out

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Excess power only means an airplane is capable of climbing……    increasing angle of attack makes it climb…. or changes the rate of climb

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I’m about 8 hours into my instrument training and am having triouble with constant rate climbs and descents. I Just can’t seem to nail the climb or descent rate. I know that I am supposed to pitch for vertical speed and adjust power for airspeed, but I’m still all over the place. The 5-6 second lag on the VSI is throwing me off. Any suggestions? -Dennis

Many long years ago when I was in learning to fly instruments, I had the same problem. The trouble was that I found it very difficult to hold a constant pressure fore-and-aft on the yoke.  I solved the problem by locking my arm into position against the side wall of the aircraft and the arm rest.  If I needed to adjust elevators, I would move my whole arm slightly.  I could still adjust aileron with finger pressure.  Later, I learned what the trim tab was for. I still use the locked arm trick when it is bumpy.  It keeps the bumps from causing elevator inputs. The Comanche can be quite sensitive in pitch.  It works for me.  YMMV. Hank Henry A. Spellman Comanche N5903P

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I know that I am supposed to pitch for vertical speed and adjust power for airspeed,

Wow!!!  20,000+ hours and never knew that this was the way that I should be doing it.  Maybe I needed a different flight instructor.  :-)  :-) Power make the airplane go up and down….. Pitch  makes the airplane go fast or slow……. These are basic aerodynamic principles. Bob Moore ATP ASMEL  B-707, B-727, L-188 CFI  ASE-IA USN  S-2F, P-2V, P-3B PanAm (retired)

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Power make the airplane go up and down….. Pitch  makes the airplane go fast or slow…….

        Not according to the FAA which recommends power to establish speed and pitch to stay on the glide slope.

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"Pitch to the glideslope, power to the airspeed." That’s the way I was taught to fly jets, and that’s the way the autopilot does it. Bob Gardner

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know that I am supposed to pitch for vertical speed and adjust power for airspeed, Wow!!!  20,000+ hours and never knew that this was the way that I should be doing it.  Maybe I needed a different flight instructor.  :-)  :-) Power make the airplane go up and down….. Pitch  makes the airplane go fast or slow……. These are basic aerodynamic principles. Bob Moore ATP ASMEL  B-707, B-727, L-188 CFI  ASE-IA USN  S-2F, P-2V, P-3B PanAm (retired)

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Actually they are not. Change in angle of attack (not pitch)  changes the airspeed. Pitch change and angle of attack change are not always coincident, as we both well know. And of course, increased  pitch can indeed make the aircraft go up, since it can change the airspeed and therefore the power requirement, and the excess power causes the aircraft to climb. Unless, fo course, you are on the back side of the power curve, in which case… But I know you know all that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know that I am supposed to pitch for vertical speed and adjust power for airspeed, Wow!!!  20,000+ hours and never knew that this was the way that I should be doing it.  Maybe I needed a different flight instructor.  :-)  :-) Power make the airplane go up and down….. Pitch  makes the airplane go fast or slow……. These are basic aerodynamic principles. Bob Moore ATP ASMEL  B-707, B-727, L-188 CFI  ASE-IA USN  S-2F, P-2V, P-3B PanAm (retired)

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Power make the airplane go up and down….. Pitch  makes the airplane go fast or slow……. These are basic aerodynamic principles.

This always reminds me of the joke where the student goes out on the runway and jams the control wheel forward and the instructor asks what he’s doing and he says "when this thing hits 60, you push the throttle in and we’ll climb."  :-)

Response:

I’m about 8 hours into my instrument training and am having triouble with constant rate climbs and descents. I Just can’t seem to nail the climb or descent rate. I know that I am supposed to pitch for vertical speed and adjust power for airspeed, but I’m still all over the place. The 5-6 second lag on the VSI is throwing me off. Any suggestions? -Dennis

Response:

If you know the power setting and pitch that will give you the desired performance it should be easy.  Just set the power and pitch and the plane will climb at the desired rate.  Same thing for descents.  Don’t chase the VSI. Mike MU-2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m about 8 hours into my instrument training and am having triouble with constant rate climbs and descents. I Just can’t seem to nail the climb or descent rate. I know that I am supposed to pitch for vertical speed and adjust power for airspeed, but I’m still all over the place. The 5-6 second lag on the VSI is throwing me off. Any suggestions? -Dennis

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Question:

Dan’l, you really don’t need a wading staff.  Studs are better there. I just go with plain old felts (i don’t have studded wading shoes) and the "linked recovery" wading method.  I’ll have a non folding wading staff for whoever wants to use it. You can get away without one, but if (just two examples) you want to fish the narrow chute along the north bank above the Cable Pool – or for that matter, fish the main stem along the Cable Pool, you’re gonna wish you did have a staff. /daytripper (Won’t leave home sans Folstaff)

Wading there and in most places is dependent on flows. Typically flows are down in the Winter. Willi

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<snipped Danl, Weather right now is in the 40’s. http://www.weather.com/weather/cities/us_nm_navajo_dam.html I don’t think you will need a wading staff, but you might want to consider studs or some boot chains.  The rocks are a little slippery, but the water is really low. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

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Dan’l, you really don’t need a wading staff.  Studs are better there.

 …..good advice snipped….. Bruce, Thanks for the heads up on the clothing. Danl

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Blackcat, Thanks for the update and link. You say the water is really low now. Does the flow (release from the dam) fluctuate a lot during the winter? Danl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Weather right now is in the 40’s. http://www.weather.com/weather/cities/us_nm_navajo_dam.html I don’t think you will need a wading staff, but you might want to consider studs or some boot chains.  The rocks are a little slippery, but the water is really low. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

Dan’l, you really don’t need a wading staff.  Studs are better there. I just go with plain old felts (i don’t have studded wading shoes) and the "linked recovery" wading method.  I’ll have a non folding wading staff for whoever wants to use it.

You can get away without one, but if (just two examples) you want to fish the narrow chute along the north bank above the Cable Pool – or for that matter, fish the main stem along the Cable Pool, you’re gonna wish you did have a staff. /daytripper (Won’t leave home sans Folstaff)

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Dan’l, you really don’t need a wading staff.  Studs are better there. I just go with plain old felts (i don’t have studded wading shoes) and the "linked recovery" wading method.  I’ll have a non folding wading staff for whoever wants to use it. As for the temps, it can be from 20 to 60.  It’s usually really cold in the early am and you find yourself peeling layers as the day warms up, like everywhere.  One thing for sure – the water is cold and your feet get cold no matter what.  Getting out of the water for a few minutes does the trick though. If you have a waterproof jacket with a hood, bring it.  I will also have both breathable and neoprene waders.  Fleece pants are needed if you’re wearing something other than neoprene waders. There’s an excellent report from Resolution Guide Service on http://www.ifly4trout.com – updated yesterday.  There’s some chance that the lake will be "turning over" and the water murky.  If that’s the case, there will be less sight fishing, and maybe less dry activity, and more blind casting nymphs.  Pray for clear water. Strong Hooks, bruce h Before you buy.

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In that case, I recommend a cheap and plentiful supply of brandy for the fishing hours.

Can’t! Then what would we do in the non-fishing hours? Danl

Response:

Did you say that a folstaff or equivalent was mandatory or at least highly reccommended for the wading impaired such as myself? BTW, Aaron at Rizzuto’s said we should expect daytime temps in the 30’s, zat right??

In that case, I recommend a cheap and plentiful supply of brandy for the fishing hours. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

   Bob Skinner and I will be leaving early Fri morning, with about 8 hours driving time we should be there by cocktail hour.

Charlie,   I don’t know.  With this group of guys, we may have to leave Denver around 2:00 am in order to get there by cocktail hour:) Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

PS    When I a was much younger person, I stood shoulder to shoulder with a veterinarian who had both arms, up to the elbows, inside a cow helping to deliver her breeched calf. Hot bovine body fluids were splattering both of us from multiple orifices while we stood and knelt in a well used barn on a hot summer day. Until I read the posts of the last weeks, that experience was my baseline on the disgust-o-meter. Now I have a new baseline. The cow and the vet were doing the best they could under the circumstances. The end justified the means. I won’t accept that argument here.

  Damn candy ass!  You had a vet?  Your "disgust-O-meter" is calibrated differently than mine.  How about removal of—–oh, nevermind.  Not on a "familly" newsgroup. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

OK, here’s the straight dirt, in order of importance: (really good time stuff snipped) Whatever I can do to make it easier for any of you, I’ll do.  Just let me know. bruce h

    god, i am envious. wayno

Response:

Whatever I can do to make it easier for any of you, I’ll do.  Just let me know.

You could move New Mexico about two or three travel days closer to North Dakota, so that I would be able to come… Kevin, green with envy

Response:

OK, here’s the straight dirt, in order of importance: 1.  Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and Hornitos or Herrardura Tequila.  Buy in Aztec or Bloomfield or Albuquerque.  I have some tequila.  Of course you can rely on me for the "cheapest liquor" info.

 …other great info and awesome display of preparedness snipped…. Bruce, Thanks for the offer of the room, but I’ve already burned the plastic for a room at Rizzuto’s. I wish I could figure a way to bring a keg of Dortmunder, but another time. Did you say that a folstaff or equivalent was mandatory or at least highly reccommended for the wading impaired such as myself? BTW, Aaron at Rizzuto’s said we should expect daytime temps in the 30’s, zat right?? Danl

Response:

Anyone know what Bruiser drinks, besides pond water of course?  <g Dave LaCourse

Response:

All, Actually, Aztec is closer, and cheaper! Bob in El Paso – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snipped Danl, You can buy beer in Navajo Dam, just not any hard liquor on Sunday. The prices are pretty expensive too.  I would pick up something in Farmington. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

OK, here’s the straight dirt, in order of importance: 1.  Sierra Nevada Pale Ale and Hornitos or Herrardura Tequila.  Buy in Aztec or Bloomfield or Albuquerque.  I have some tequila.  Of course you can rely on me for the "cheapest liquor" info. 2.  Steve, I’m ready.  We can fish another stream on the way up and drive into Navajo Dam late Friday night.  I’m planning on driving back to albuquerque late tuesday after fishing.  We can also wait for dan’l and his rental car but that may prevent fishing friday. 3.  I’ll make sure everyone has directions to the river.  Directions from just about anywhere are on the ifly4trout.com website. 4.  Dan’l, maybe you can jump into Bob’s room for the nights you’re there.  He’s got one booked at rizuto’s – http://www.rizutos.com – and that way we’ll already have arrangements made for you.  Bob, in case you’re wondering, Dan’l was voted world’s nicest person at the western clave. 5.  There are flyshops galore at the river, and Rizuto’s is a flyshop also.  Abe’s is across the road.  Float n Fish, which i’ve designated ROFF’s "official" flyshop because of their friendliness and dry fly prowess, is about 300 yards away from rizutos.  They are also psyched to have this group coming to the river, they’ve heard about you guys : 6.  Keep tabs on http://www.ifly4trout.com – especially the reports from resolution guide service.  All of the "tips of the month" and FAQs are helpful also and reading them in advance will get you to the fish quicker. 7.  I’m involved in a remodel and simultaneous move but i’m still fifty flies into my goal of tying at least 200 flies for everyone’s use.  And they *are* a little slicker than those i tied for the raffle. I am really psyched for this deal.  If we can get warren down here that would just top it off completely, I really think he’d like a few days on such a different river. Whatever I can do to make it easier for any of you, I’ll do.  Just let me know. bruce h Before you buy.

Response:

Danl, I’ll be at Rizutto’s from the afternoon of the 7th thru the morning of the 12th. Bob in El Paso – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey Bruiser, et al, What about an update on who, what, when, where, and how much for those of us who have been on the road, are interested in flyfishing, don’t want to wade through the crap that ROFF has apparently been lately and are too lazy to Deja News it to find out. Danl

Response:

Dan’l writes: What about an update on who, what, when, where, and how much for those of us who have been on the road, are interested in flyfishing, don’t want to wade through the crap that ROFF has apparently been lately and are too lazy to Deja News it to find out.

   Bob Skinner and I will be leaving early Fri morning, with about 8 hours driving time we should be there by cocktail hour.

Response:

<snipped Danl, You can buy beer in Navajo Dam, just not any hard liquor on Sunday. The prices are pretty expensive too.  I would pick up something in Farmington. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

Response:

If folks want to consider me an asshole

for saying so, that’s fine by me.< Hmmm.  Asshole’s a pretty strong word.   I prefer to think of you as a Frightened Illini.   Or is that Frightning Illini?  Or Illinoi*s*ian?   (Accent on the "s" of course.)  <g

Response:

Chances are, work will shut me down on this one, but God hates a coward so I’m buying airfare as if I was going. Plan on flying into AlbertQQ on Friday and slinking home on Tuesday AM.

I’ll be arriving on Friday morning, at which time Bruiser has pledged (or at least hinted) that he’ll duck out of work, pick me up at the airport, and go fishing. Hope to see you then, Dan’l. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Dan’l writes: What about an update on who, what, when, where, and how much for those of us who have been on the road, are interested in flyfishing, don’t want to wade through the crap that ROFF has apparently been lately and are too lazy to Deja News it to find out.

I’ll be flying into AlbertQ on Sat. afternoon and visiting with friends until Sunday a.m.  I’lll rent a truck or car and drive to Rizuto’s.  I need directions, btw, Bruiser. Hope to be there about noon time on Sunday, so hope you dudes will leave directions on where to meet you on the river.  Looking forward to it.  However, I doubt my eyes will survive tying these #22 and 24 hooks! I fly back to Taxachusetts on Wednesday afternoon. Dave L.

Response:

… PS    When I a was much younger person, I stood shoulder to shoulder with a veterinarian who had both arms, up to the elbows, inside a cow helping to deliver her breeched calf. Hot bovine body fluids were splattering both of us from multiple orifices while we stood and knelt in a well used barn on a hot summer day. Until I read the posts of the last weeks, that experience was my baseline on the disgust-o-meter. Now I have a new baseline. The cow and the vet were doing the best they could under the circumstances. The end justified the means. I won’t accept that argument here.

Paraphrasing Harry Truman who in response to "Give ‘em hell, Harry", said I’ll tell the truth and they’ll think I’m givin’ ‘em hell. A little bit of word play on a Usenet newsgroup can in no way be compared to the ugliness of institutional bigotry and casual racism. If folks want to consider me an asshole for saying so, that’s fine by me. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I’ll be arriving on Friday morning, at which time Bruiser has pledged (or at least hinted) that he’ll duck out of work, pick me up at the airport, and go fishing. Hope to see you then, Dan’l.

 Steve, I’m sposta arrive about 2:15PM. I’m gonna rent an infernal combustion engine powered contraption of some sort (SUV). If Bruce can’t make it, you’re welcome to ride up to Navajo Dam with me. How much they charging you to put Simon and Heather in first class with Arlo? Bruce, is Rizzuto’s the place to be? Can I buy beer (not pale yellow belch water) in Navaho Dam or do I need to take care of this in Albertqq? Danl

Response:

Hey Bruiser, et al, What about an update on who, what, when, where, and how much for those of us who have been on the road, are interested in flyfishing, don’t want to wade through the crap that ROFF has apparently been lately and are too lazy to Deja News it to find out. Chances are, work will shut me down on this one, but God hates a coward so I’m buying airfare as if I was going. Plan on flying into AlbertQQ on Friday and slinking home on Tuesday AM. Danl PS    When I a was much younger person, I stood shoulder to shoulder with a veterinarian who had both arms, up to the elbows, inside a cow helping to deliver her breeched calf. Hot bovine body fluids were splattering both of us from multiple orifices while we stood and knelt in a well used barn on a hot summer day. Until I read the posts of the last weeks, that experience was my baseline on the disgust-o-meter. Now I have a new baseline. The cow and the vet were doing the best they could under the circumstances. The end justified the means. I won’t accept that argument here.

Response:

Question:

The White House (SPOOF) – Amid charges he ordered a release from the SPR simply to help get Hilary out of his hair by foisting her off on the people of New York, he released the following statement: "I did not have sexual relations with that woman…" When asked about the fact oil prices seeming to be going up, he had the following comments: "It depends on what the meaning of "up" is…" Meanwhile, Hilary, at a fundraiser given by Melissa Etheridge, Ellen Degeneris, and kd lang, released the following: "It’s a vast left-wing conspiracy.  I pledge to speak until the entire Northeast is warm and toasty…" Gore, meanwhile, speaking at an oil industry trade show, quipped, "I grew up with that wonderful lullaby, ‘You can trust you car…’."

Response:

The White House (SPOOF)

I think we all understand your feelings on the matter by now.      - Ken — "The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness.  You have to catch it yourself."      -Ben Franklin

Response:

The White House (SPOOF) I think we all understand your feelings on the matter by now.     – Ken

Ya think? <G R

Response:

The White House (SPOOF)

Is this what you call discussing the issues, Richard? The real problem, though, is that it isn’t even funny. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

The real problem, though, is that it isn’t even funny.

The boys at the Petroleum Club probably got a good chuckle… — Charlie…

Response:

The White House (SPOOF) Is this what you call discussing the issues, Richard? The real problem, though, is that it isn’t even funny.

No, it isn’t, hence, it is a seperate posting.  As I said, I am willing to discuss the issues, or lampoon them, but not in the same discussion. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Most certainly.  The Kipster, Winthorpe, and Creighton all found it to be quite the ripper at the gin game at the club.  

Still no women allowed in the card room I assume? I’d hate to think that had changed… — Charlie…

Response:

The real problem, though, is that it isn’t even funny. The boys at the Petroleum Club probably got a good chuckle… — Charlie…

Most certainly.  The Kipster, Winthorpe, and Creighton all found it to be quite the ripper at the gin game at the club.  I must confess, however, Win’s little brother, Bink, found it a bit cutting, but he’s at that age…still a junior at, sigh, Babson, where they fuel that young liberal angst.

Response:

Most certainly.  The Kipster, Winthorpe, and Creighton all found it to be quite the ripper at the gin game at the club.   Still no women allowed in the card room I assume? I’d hate to think that had changed… — Charlie…

Of course we allow them in – we’re progressive, to a point.  Besides, who would vacuum and clean after the club closed?  And of course, if the waiter was sick, someone would have to bring us drinks and watercress finger sandwiches…

Response:

Of course we allow them in – we’re progressive, to a point.  Besides, who would vacuum and clean after the club closed?  And of course, if the waiter was sick, someone would have to bring us drinks and watercress finger sandwiches…

Last time I was in the Petroleum Club in Wichita (maybe 20 years ago), women weren’t even allow in to serve. Don’t know about cleaning up, though. FWIW. — Charlie…

Response:

Of course we allow them in – we’re progressive, to a point.  Besides, who would vacuum and clean after the club closed?  And of course, if the waiter was sick, someone would have to bring us drinks and watercress finger sandwiches… Last time I was in the Petroleum Club in Wichita (maybe 20 years ago), women weren’t even allow in to serve. Don’t know about cleaning up, though. FWIW. — Charlie…

Alas, times change, and we are very progressive – we even voted to move the lawn jockey at the Country Club from the front to back by the cart check…

Response:

As I said, I am willing to discuss the issues, or lampoon them, but not in the same discussion.

I’m afraid you’ve botched both attempts. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As I said, I am willing to discuss the issues, or lampoon them, but not in the same discussion. I’m afraid you’ve botched both attempts. Aw, Steve, just face it: Bill, Al, and Hilary (and I’m not so sure about Tipper) are pandering political animals who’ll say or do anything for immediate self-aggrandization and gratification, personal, political, or sexual, and do it without the slightest regard for anyone or anything, and you’re just miffed because people don’t hesitate to point it out. The sad part is seemingly otherwise-intelligent people fall for their act, and _that_ isn’t funny.

Oh, stop your whining, fer chrissakes. Although the outcome is hardly in doubt at this point, it’s a little early to be stamping your Buster Browns while slandering the American voter. Your ex-drunk/ex-cokefiend Second-Coming-of-Quayle Heirhead never had a real reason for running in the first place, ‘cept that the roof is probably about to fall in on Texas and he had nothing better to do. I liked you better when you actually thought Shrub had at least a snow-ball’s chance in Hell of winning… /daytripper

Response:

This is just pathetic, Richard. I’m starting to feel sorry for you. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

This is just pathetic, Richard. I’m starting to feel sorry for you. — Aw, Steve, spoken like a true limo liberal.  

So sad, Richard. I count you as a friend and I hope for a speedy recovery. Let’s just go fishing sometime and put this ugly political shit behind us. BTW, I’ve never been in a limo in my life, and I ain’t no damn liberal. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

As I said, I am willing to discuss the issues, or lampoon them, but not in the same discussion. I’m afraid you’ve botched both attempts.

Aw, Steve, just face it: Bill, Al, and Hilary (and I’m not so sure about Tipper) are pandering political animals who’ll say or do anything for immediate self-aggrandization and gratification, personal, political, or sexual, and do it without the slightest regard for anyone or anything, and you’re just miffed because people don’t hesitate to point it out. The sad part is seemingly otherwise-intelligent people fall for their act, and _that_ isn’t funny. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Are you a shill?  Is someone paying you to do this? I see all your post come in "working hours" and very few are on the topic of flyfishing.  There were very few posts of any that I recall before the election started. Will you be gone when Bush looses ?  Here’s some suggestions for more appropiate places to post., You can find more I’m sure. BJC alt. current-events.clinton.whitewater alt.flame.bill-clinton.abortion.partial-birth alt.flame.bill-clinton.humor alt.impeach.clinton alt.sex.clinton.bill alt.sex.clinton.hillary alt.sex.clinton.chelsa alt.fan.rush-limbaugh alt.politics.republicans alt.politics.usa.republicans alt.politics.bush alt.politics.clinton The White House (SPOOF) – Amid charges he ordered a release from the

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As I said, I am willing to discuss the issues, or lampoon them, but not in the same discussion. I’m afraid you’ve botched both attempts. Aw, Steve, just face it: Bill, Al, and Hilary (and I’m not so sure about Tipper) are pandering political animals who’ll say or do anything for immediate self-aggrandization and gratification, personal, political, or sexual, and do it without the slightest regard for anyone or anything, and you’re just miffed because people don’t hesitate to point it out. The sad part is seemingly otherwise-intelligent people fall for their act, and _that_ isn’t funny. Oh, stop your whining, fer chrissakes. Although the outcome is hardly in doubt at this point, it’s a little early to be stamping your Buster Browns while slandering the American voter. Your ex-drunk/ex-cokefiend Second-Coming-of-Quayle Heirhead never had a real reason for running in the first place, ‘cept that the roof is probably about to fall in on Texas and he had nothing better to do. I liked you better when you actually thought Shrub had at least a snow-ball’s chance in Hell of winning… /daytripper

Hee-HEE… You don’t get it, because you can’t…people like what you (and a few others) _assume_ I am don’t _truly_ care who’s President, because they know who has the real power, and it ain’t the President, Bush or Gore. It’s just embarrassing to have a nouveau riche hillbilly boob and a wannabe Leona Helmsly/Eleanor Roosevelt like Bill and Hilary as figureheads.  As to the American voter, please.  Most will vote for such simplistic reasons as to be laughable.   If you Gore fans really knew anything about him, you might realize he’s just like Bush, but without at least some ethics (or backbone).  He’s a rich kid who did drugs, used Dad’s influence to stay out of combat in Vietnam (well, really Dad made damn sure they stayed out of combat), whose family made money from things like oil (BTW, Gore, Sr. and Armand Hammer were pretty big buddies and the Gore family trusts, one of which Al, Jr. is a trustee, still benefit pretty tidily), banking, real estate, tobacco, etc., went to private schools as an "insider," etc. Gore is just a weak-willed fop who got mixed up with wrong crowd – just like the nouveau riche kid who gets into trouble. He only got into politics because _his_ father was a pol.  Bush may not be the best man for the job, but he’s the best in a field of two…  

Response:

Are you a shill?  Is someone paying you to do this? I see all your post come in "working hours" and very few are on the topic of flyfishing.  There were very few posts of any that I recall before the election started. Will you be gone when Bush looses ?  Here’s some suggestions for more appropiate places to post., You can find more I’m sure. BJC

Oddly, you seem to read and respond to most, if not all.  Are _you_ a shill?  And when did the election start?  As to "on-topic," Bwa-ha-ha-ha…

Response:

This is just pathetic, Richard. I’m starting to feel sorry for you. —

Aw, Steve, spoken like a true limo liberal.  I have yet to see a single fact from you, only personal attacks, remarks I guess you mean to be "biting," and a bunch of mealy-mouthed Bush-bashing.  Let’s see some facts disputing a single thing I’ve said about Gore (or Clinton).  You make all these claims and statements, and when someone calls you on it, you "attack."  Frankly, I thought you were more intelligent, and at least had some basis for your opinions, but I guess it is I who should feel sorry for you… BTW, don’t feel sorry for me – I’ll be out of the city starting tomorrow, and for a few days I won’t give a flying fuck who doing what or who in Washington or New York. TC, R

Response:

This is just pathetic, Richard. I’m starting to feel sorry for you.

I find it funny how two people so alike can feel sorry for each other.      - Ken (Unabashed supporters of either side of the fence are equally pathetic IMHO.) — "The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness.  You have to catch it yourself."      -Ben Franklin

Response:

This is just pathetic, Richard. I’m starting to feel sorry for you. I find it funny how two people so alike can feel sorry for each other.     – Ken (Unabashed supporters of either side of the fence are equally pathetic IMHO.)

Well, you know what they say, "If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything the Democrats say" <G.   FWIW, I’ll say it again: G.W.B. ain’t Dad, good, bad, or ugly and Gore ain’t Clinton, good, bad, or ugly, but even in the worst case, Bush is less bad than Gore.  Hell, I could even respect someone who voted for Gore if they could make a factual, logical case _why_ they are _for_ Gore. TC, R

Response:

Did you learn just from just from  rush or have you studied Joseph Goebbels? It was he who said " A lie told first is the truth" and  "  lie told often is the truth".  When questioned evade and attack the accuser".  The "Oil release…"  string had hundreds of responses mostly evaded, or replied to with condescending retorts but few facts.   Besides the ones I’ve suggested there’s lots of  alt.rush.*** groups that would welcome  you post. BJC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are you a shill?  Is someone paying you to do this? I see all your post come in "working hours" and very few are on the topic of flyfishing.  There were very few posts of any that I recall before the election started. Will you be gone when Bush looses ?  Here’s some suggestions for more appropiate places to post., You can find more I’m sure. BJC Oddly, you seem to read and respond to most, if not all.  Are _you_ a shill?  And when did the election start?  As to "on-topic," Bwa-ha-ha-ha…

Response:

This is just pathetic, Richard. I’m starting to feel sorry for you. — Aw, Steve, spoken like a true limo liberal.   So sad, Richard. I count you as a friend and I hope for a speedy recovery. Let’s just go fishing sometime and put this ugly political shit behind us.

Fine with me – as I said, I’m content to agree to disagree.  I think everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I even truly respect the well-thought-out ones that differ from my own.  I also hope you have a speedy recovery <G. BTW, I’ve never been in a limo in my life…

Now THAT’S sad…<G TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Did you learn just from just from  rush or have you studied Joseph Goebbels? It was he who said " A lie told first is the truth" and  "  lie told often is the truth".  When questioned evade and attack the accuser".  The "Oil release…"  string had hundreds of responses mostly evaded, or replied to with condescending retorts but few facts.  

Guten Tag, Herr Sch… Oops.. Well now, see?   Here is something we can agree on…you are absolutely correct – I posted facts, and cites as I saw requested, yet I saw no controverting facts posted, and when I asked direct questions, they were evaded.  So far, you have posted none, but simply responded with (poorly written) attacks.  I guess that’s OK, since you are basically a troll, so end of subthread for me…

Response:

Question:

A while back there was a posting that had this open or active portal concept. It was set up at a college or something and dealt with fly fishing. Does anybody still have the link for it? Thanks in advance, — Jamie http://clik.to/flyfish

Response:

Thank you if you bothered to answer me. I finally found it. Here is the link if anyone is interested. http://www.active-portal.com/cgi-bin/genpage?cat=1031242&page=1&verbo… — Jamie http://clik.to/flyfish – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A while back there was a posting that had this open or active portal concept. It was set up at a college or something and dealt with fly fishing. Does anybody still have the link for it? Thanks in advance, — Jamie http://clik.to/flyfish

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been fishing streams recently and noticing that the last 2-3 feet of my line is sinking.  It is a Cortland 444 WF-5-F line and is about a year old and hasn’t been heavily fished.  Besides cleaning the line, is there anything else I can do to prevent this?….it makes it hard to keep the fly up! Also, what is the best product out there for making the line slide through the guides better? Thanks Dustin Let the line dry out for a good period, and then ensure that the end is sealed with a good waterproof glue or similar, water may be seeping into the core. Otherwise use the cortland line cleaner and dressing. TL MC

Yes, I agree. Check the line to make sure, let it dry and use some line cleaner/dressing. If that doesn’t work, make sure you are mending your line so that that current isn’t pulling it under. DAYGLOW York Team DBE

Response:

I get the same problem with my Airflo 7000, I tried cleaning it and that helped, but I will try sealing it now!

Response:

I have been fishing streams recently and noticing that the last 2-3 feet of my line is sinking.  It is a Cortland 444 WF-5-F line and is about a year old and hasn’t been heavily fished.  Besides cleaning the line, is there anything else I can do to prevent this?….it makes it hard to keep the fly up! Also, what is the best product out there for making the line slide through the guides better? Thanks Dustin

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have been fishing streams recently and noticing that the last 2-3 feet of my line is sinking.  It is a Cortland 444 WF-5-F line and is about a year old and hasn’t been heavily fished.  Besides cleaning the line, is there anything else I can do to prevent this?….it makes it hard to keep the fly up! Also, what is the best product out there for making the line slide through the guides better? Thanks Dustin

Let the line dry out for a good period, and then ensure that the end is sealed with a good waterproof glue or similar, water may be seeping into the core. Otherwise use the cortland line cleaner and dressing. TL MC

Response:

Question:

        Are they some belgian fly fishers in this group, I would like to talk with, about our experiences in the different rivers within and out the country.         Je voudrais

Question:

Does anyone have a pattern for a WD 40 they would be willing to share? thanks in advance phil

Response:

This is from the Virtual Flyshop http://www.flyshop.com/Bench/index.html WD-40 Submitted by: David Grossman from Durango , Duranglers Fly Shop, Durango Colorado Originated by Mark Engler RECIPE HOOK: TMC 2487 Size 18-24THREAD: 8/0 Chocolate, Gray, OliveTAIL: Wood DuckABDOMEN: ThreadTHORAX: Dubbed Hare’s Ear (match thread)WINGCASE: Wood DuckHEAD: Sparse thread<PictureInstructions: The thread is tied in and advanced backward to barb point. A small clump of Wood Duck feather tips is tied in shank length and the butts are not trimmed. The thread is advanced forward over the butts covering them completely, but maintaining a very slender abdomen. Pull the Wood Duck butts back and dub a bulky thorax. The Wood Duck butts are then tied in over the large thorax as a wingcase and a very small head finishes the fly. Best in Chocolate Brown (#24) Hareline Dubbing. Does anyone have a pattern for a WD 40 they would be willing to share? thanks in advance phil

begin 600 Wd40.jpg <encoded_portion_removed end

Response:

Does anyone have a pattern for a WD 40 they would be willing to share? thanks in advance phil

Very simple and effective fly. Hook: TMC 2687 #18-22   Tail: Mallard or woodduck flank Abdomen: Chocolate Rabbit fur Wingcase: Same feather as tail   Thorax: Chocolate Rabbit fur Note: Can be tied in black or grey also. (I’ve never used anything but Chocolate)

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Does anyone have a pattern for a WD 40 they would be willing to share? thanks in advance phil

Hi ! Phil Look at:  http://www.visi.com/~mpv/flyfishing/nymphswap/wd40.html or http://www.flyshop.com/scripts/flies/details.cfm?flyname=wd%2d40 I wish this helpful denis

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – here’s the story.  about a month ago a friend of mine and i got our california fishing licenses.  we have gone out several times with not much luck.  we live in reno nevada and have easy access to the truckee river, lake tahoe area, bridgeport area, and the lake davis area. most of our efforts have been concentrated on the truckee river and various other streams close by.  i have not caught anything yet and my friend has only caught one trout.  i have an experienced friend who says that flyfishing is "something you have to pay your dues with".  is that the general consensus?  what do you suggest if nothing seems to be working (like in my case)?  fish new areas?  delve into entomology?  read books? pay for a guide?  i feel like i can do this i just need to build some momentum up (and going in the right direction would help). my current setup is a 7′-6" bamboo 5/6 weight rod; 100 yards of 10 lb. backing; "courtland" shooting head line (floating); "scientific angler" leader.  i have been using and had strikes on wooly worms, wooly buggers, helgramites.  i have been using and not having luck with nymphs, cahills, grasshoppers, and various dry flies. there is nothing more frustrating than to be wading in the middle of a hole with fish rising all around me and not being able to catch one. this has actually happened twice. if anyone would be kind enough to help, my friend and i would greatly appreciate it.  thank you in advance.

Try to pick a fly that most closely matches the size of the insects that you see on the surface.  The next most important thing is to keep one hand on your line line at all times.  The fact that you are getting strikes means that your fly selection is not that bad.   A problem I used to have is I would mend and leave to much line out.   When I got a strike, I could not pull the line taught quickly enough to set the hook.  If you are not able to pull your line taught by raising your rod tip to 45 deg above horizontal, plus a single pull with your line hand, then you have to much line out. Brian Brian

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here’s the story.  about a month ago a friend of mine and i got our california fishing licenses.  we have gone out several times with not much luck.  we live in reno nevada and have easy access to the truckee river, lake tahoe area, bridgeport area, and the lake davis area. most of our efforts have been concentrated on the truckee river and various other streams close by.  i have not caught anything yet and my friend has only caught one trout.  i have an experienced friend who says that flyfishing is "something you have to pay your dues with".  is that the general consensus?  what do you suggest if nothing seems to be working (like in my case)?  fish new areas?  delve into entomology?  read books? pay for a guide?  i feel like i can do this i just need to build some momentum up (and going in the right direction would help). my current setup is a 7′-6" bamboo 5/6 weight rod; 100 yards of 10 lb. backing; "courtland" shooting head line (floating); "scientific angler" leader.  i have been using and had strikes on wooly worms, wooly buggers, helgramites.  i have been using and not having luck with nymphs, cahills, grasshoppers, and various dry flies. there is nothing more frustrating than to be wading in the middle of a hole with fish rising all around me and not being able to catch one. this has actually happened twice. if anyone would be kind enough to help, my friend and i would greatly appreciate it.  thank you in advance.

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I’m pretty new to the fly fishing sport but already have been blessed with some nice size trout! Living in Detroit in the Summers and Lansing for school I don’t really have a place that is nice and close.  I do a lot of fishing in Harbor Beach, which is about 50 miles north of Port Huron.  I’ve also fished the PM, and love the "flies only" section.  I’m just wondering if anyone knows where the hot spots are so I don’t have to drive too far and find out that the fishing sucks! And hey, maybe we can exchange stories, I’m always up for some good BS! All you Michigan FF, Keep in touch because the Salmon season is soon to start. I have plenty of good spots to go to.  I go up just about every weekend all year round.  Steelhead, Salmon, and runt trout.  What do you fish for?  Write back, I will be going up north this weekend to fish for chinook, coho, and summer steelhead.  Yes, there are still skamania in the river. Hooked and landed a 16 pound chinook two weeks ago on the Betsie River.

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Living in Detroit in the Summers and Lansing for school I don’t really have a place that is nice and close.  I do a lot of fishing in Harbor Beach, which is about 50 miles north of Port Huron.  I’ve also fished the

Jon-Paul; Since you’re heading 50 miles north of Port Huron maybe one day you should make a left turn and head over to Canada. From about Goderich (50 miles north of Sarnia) North there are a number of excellent salmon/steelhead rivers, with trout in the feeder streams. If you want to make a weekend or late night of it the Grand north of Kitchener (about 150 mile from Detroit) is another good river (C&R single barbless hook) with a good population of browns. Regards; —                         Dept. OB/GYN                         University of Western Ontario                         London, Ontario, CANADA

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I’m pretty new to the fly fishing sport but already have been blessed

JPJ, welcome aboard!  I get up north too infrequently, but have my favorite hangouts of course.  I don’t know as you’d like them, though, being into steelies and salmon and such.  I’m a brookie specialist, and my favorite thing is fishing itty bitty creeks you wouldn’t think you could fly fish. Most of them you can reach across with your rod, and it’s a rare day when I can actually cast.  Mostly, I’ve become very good at the roll cast… and at disengaging snags.  For those big’uns, you might try the lower Betsie. — Lee Green MD MPH         | Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are my own, Family Practice          | and do not represent the University of University of Michigan   | Michigan.  Medical commentary is for general                          | personal physician for your own care.

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Liz

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I’m pretty new to the fly fishing sport but already have been blessed with some nice size trout! Living in Detroit in the Summers and Lansing for school I don’t really have a place that is nice and close.  I do a lot of fishing in Harbor Beach, which is about 50 miles north of Port Huron.  I’ve also fished the PM, and love the "flies only" section.  I’m just wondering if anyone knows where the hot spots are so I don’t have to drive too far and find out that the fishing sucks! And hey, maybe we can exchange stories, I’m always up for some good BS! All you Michigan FF, Keep in touch because the Salmon season is soon to start. — *                                                                        * *         Michigan State University Men’s Basketball Manager             * *                         *                                                                        * *             Countdown to a Big 10 Championship Season                  * *                                                                        * *              Respert * Snow * Brooks * Beathea * Feick                 * *                                                                        * * Respert Needs 786 points to be the Big Ten’s all time leading scorer!  *

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