Question:

JeffC apparently wrote… I’ve heard this many times – when it’s drizzling or raining or snowing, the such-and-such really start hatching.  I remember the discussion of drying time for wings, but I’m wondering if there’s really something about a rain, even a light drizzle, that nymphs on the bottom can actually detect, and then be caused to respond to by hatching at that time.

Jeff, I don’t think anyone is saying it is the rain, snow or drizzle is what causes the hatch to kick in.  Think light levels during these periods and you should be able to get up to speed. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

Got out for a couple of hours today. For the first hour, the fish were taken midges, landed one and stung a couple more. Then heavy cloud cover came out, it started to intermittently rain and the Olives started hatching. I got moved out of the best stretch of water by a couple kids who moved in when they saw me catch a fish. They were flinging bobbers the size of tennis balls over the fish that were rising in less than a foot of water. I told them they would do better in the deep pool under the bridge but….. The stretch that I fished usually doesn’t fish very well until the water levels rise. However, with the cloud cover and the drizzle, the fish had moved into a shallow run to feed on the Olives. Being early in the hatch, it seemed that most fish were taking emergers. I caught a couple fish, then the sun came out and although it continued to drizzle, the Olives and the fish stopped. The sun stayed out for about ten minutes and then it took about another ten before the Olives and the fish started up again. Took one more fish and then it was time to leave. I tried to watch for Olives on the water, both during periods of cloud cover and during the intermittent sunny periods. I could look over a large placid pool and easily see the Olives on the water. Although the hatch wasn’t heavy, during cloudy periods, there were always at least half a dozen  Olives on the pool but none during the sunny periods. It could be that the Olives were flying off more quickly under the sun, but even though the sun was out, it continued to drizzle. Now that Olive "season" has started, I’ll try and make a point of observing this. Willi

Response:

cut ….. Although the  hatch wasn’t heavy, during cloudy periods, there were always at least half a dozen  Olives on the pool but none during the sunny periods.

I’ve noticed this too. I’ve also noticed–especially in the early season leading up to high water and the salmon fly hatch (here in Montana) –that the fishing often turns on and off  semi-instantly, as the sun alternately hides and shows between dark,  early season cloud cover—–even when there is no apparent hatch of any kind. I’ve seen the fishing on the Big Hole go from spectacular to zip in just a few seconds, the minute a bright sun pops out from behind a cloud.  In the early season, I want to see those clam chowder skies…..and no wind.  Maybe that’s what they have in paradise:  60 degrees with fuzzy clouds and a soft rain, and no wind. And lots of trout streams.  On on my way.

Response:

Got out for a couple of hours today. For the first hour, the fish were taken midges, landed one and stung a couple more. Then heavy cloud cover came out, it started to intermittently rain and the Olives started hatching.

How could nymphs "know" that there was rain?  Sun vs. clouds, yes, barometric pressure, maybe, but in riffly water, how about rain?

Response:

How could nymphs "know" that there was rain?  Sun vs. clouds, yes, barometric pressure, maybe, but in riffly water, how about rain?

Impact of rain on surface, chemical change in water, change in surface interaction with "light", stick their heads out and look? GKT

Response:

Got out for a couple of hours today. For the first hour, the fish were taken midges, landed one and stung a couple more. Then heavy cloud cover came out, it started to intermittently rain and the Olives started hatching. How could nymphs "know" that there was rain?  Sun vs. clouds, yes, barometric pressure, maybe, but in riffly water, how about rain?

It was more in response to a comment that we see more Mayflies on the water during cloudy weather because it takes more time for them to dry (seems plausible). Later in my post I talked about not seeing many Mayflies when it was sunny, although it still continued to drizzle. Sun and drizzle at the same time wouldn’t seem to be too conducive to drying. Willi

Response:

It was more in response to a comment that we see more Mayflies on the water during cloudy weather because it takes more time for them to dry (seems plausible). Later in my post I talked about not seeing many Mayflies when it was sunny, although it still continued to drizzle. Sun and drizzle at the same time wouldn’t seem to be too conducive to drying.

I’ve heard this many times – when it’s drizzling or raining or snowing, the such-and-such really start hatching.  I remember the discussion of drying time for wings, but I’m wondering if there’s really something about a rain, even a light drizzle, that nymphs on the bottom can actually detect, and then be caused to respond to by hatching at that time.

Response:

I remember the discussion of drying time for wings, but I’m wondering if there’s really something about a rain, even a light drizzle, that nymphs on the bottom can actually detect, and then be caused to respond to by hatching at that time.

Well, maybe. But it could also be that the duns are on the surface for a longer time in cold drizzley weather, so the hatch seems heavier. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

Question:

I fear you might have a problem riding the horse in the stream itself, if it shies for some reason you might be thrown.  

That’s always a possibility, even if I’m not fishing. If you have no intention of landing the fish, then you will at least have no problems with fish splashing about close, and possibly frightening the horse.   You might have problems with the noise the horse makes frightening the fish, or perhaps you can "muffle" the hooves in some way, without causing the horse to lose traction. Presumably the horse is shod?

Yes, he’s shod. Horses are actually very good at wading in freestone rivers — much better than people are. They’re tall, they have four long legs, they’re heavy, and their weight is high (not underwater, like much of ours when we wade). I cross streams frequently while mounted without problems. Does not sound much like "stealthy" fly-fishing either.  Up on a horse in the stream, in places where horses are not common, you are liable to frighten most fish long before you get within casting range, although this might not be the case.  

That’s true, but I’d also be up high where I could more easily spot fish. There’s so much noise in these freestone streams that you can wade with a fair amount of ruckus without spooking the fish. let us know how you get on.

Will do. The idea here isn’t really to catch fish, of course. It’s just to try this to be able to say I’ve done it. I’m looking for the right setup — early evening, sun and wind at my back, riffles with pocket water, and plenty of dumb fish. There’s a perfect spot just upstream from my pasture on the Salmon river. Unfortuanately, a highway goes right by there, so I might cause an sensation. This is just the sort of thing what would get people talking around here. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Willi can attest to the fact that I did an incredible hopping/dancing routine in a slippery Madison riffle when a fish came straight at me and swam through my legs.  (Yeah, it was a whitefish… so?)  If you put tassles on your horse and braided its mane, I’d pay good money to see a horse do the same thing.

No tassles and braids, Jeff. This is Idaho. You don’t baby horses or take them to the hairdresser here. There’s a horse in my rented pasture (not mine) that had a serious case of ear mites, and probably other parasites as well. He was really suffering and was weak and listless. Since so one was doing anything about it I gave him a dose of Ivermectin (recommended by folks in rec.equestrian) just before I left for the Western Clave. When I returned about 10 days later the mites were gone and he was feeling and looking good. I took him on a long ride up to Sulpher Creek and he did just fine, except it’s like fighting the Devil to get the bridle over his ears. He’ll get over that. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Don’t laugh. I’m serious. The next logical step is actually fishing FROM THE HORSE!         i’m really worried about wolfgang.  at this point, there have been a dozen responses to this post, and he remains silent.         could someone check the e.r.’s in milwaukee? wayno, always thinking of his friends.

Ahem….yes….sorry about the delay.  It’s been a rather busy week for me.  I’ve been engaged in monitoring ROFF’s collective blood pressure using my own patented remote telemetry device.  Oddly enough it appears that the numbers increase significantly in direct proportion to the frequency of my participation.  Still working on whether the relationship is causal or merely coincidental.  Will keep everyone posted on results. Have also been deeply engaged in an investigation of population genetics as manifested in boorish behavior on small mountain streams.  Fascinating study! As to the point under consideration in this thread, why anyone would consider doing anything on a horse’s back other than perhaps parking a bus, completely escapes me.  That said, if memory serves, I seem to recall seeing photos in some of the fishing rags a few years ago, when I still paid attention to them, of people doing exactly what Steve is contemplating.  I believe there were some ads for outfitters who take people out on fishing trips specifically to fish while mounted upon the backs of these ungainly and treacherous brutes.  Sorry I can’t give any more details but my memory of the references is rather dim as I was at that time deeply engrossed in the consideration of a plan to get nymphs to the bottom of deep pools without using hazardous lead weights by clasping the fly firmly in my teeth and diving headlong into the pools with a medium sized anvil tied securely to my neck.  Sadly, I must report that this plan never came to fruition as I was unable to devise a reliable method for retrieving the anvils which, as I’m sure everyone knows, are in short supply due to the distressing habit of "collectors" buying them up at auctions and yard sales to be used as lawn ornaments. However, now that I think about it, I suppose that a steel shod horse has from horse hair lines to using the entire beast…..waste not, want not, eh?  Or would that be considered bait casting? FWIW Wolfgang "Something’s happening here….."

Response:

rw,   One of my wildest rides occurred when mounting a horse with a fishing rod in hand. Ernie

A mare no doubt. Peter

Response:

  One of my wildest rides occurred when mounting a horse with a fishing rod in hand. Ernie A mare no doubt. Peter

Ernie "Stud" Harrison seems to take a little "different" view of dealing with animals.  I shudder to think of what would happen if Ernie took up Mike’s Camel suggestion.  Reminds me of a Foreign Legion story; there was a new officer assigned to a remote French Foreign Legion post…… — Wayne (saving the rest of the story for the Smallie Clave this weekend) To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

As to the point under consideration in this thread, why anyone would consider doing anything on a horse’s back other than perhaps parking a bus, completely escapes me.  

Why would anyone consider climbing up a waterfall while wearing wading boots and carrying a flyrod? That said, if memory serves, I seem to recall seeing photos in some of the fishing rags a few years ago, when I still paid attention to them, of people doing exactly what Steve is contemplating.  I believe there were some ads for outfitters who take people out on fishing trips specifically to fish while mounted upon the backs of these ungainly and treacherous brutes.

I’ve wanted to try this ever since I saw the movie "Jeremiah Johnson". Johnson (played by Robert Redford) was starving in the winter, and he was desperately trying to catch fish with his bare hands. As he was pathetically flopping around in the freezing creek he looked up to see a mounted Indian wading, carrying a full stringer of trout he’s shot with a bow and arrow. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I’ve wanted to try this ever since I saw the movie "Jeremiah Johnson". Johnson (played by Robert Redford) was starving in the winter, and he was desperately trying to catch fish with his bare hands. As he was pathetically flopping around in the freezing creek he looked up to see a mounted Indian wading, carrying a full stringer of trout he’s shot with a bow and arrow.

Be careful when bowfishing.  When I was a kid I went bowfishing for carp with my father and uncle.  My uncle shot at a fish and the line wrapped around his finger as he shot.  His finger was essentially only held together by the fingernail.  We rushed him to the hospital and they sewed it all back together, but it wasn’t a pretty sight. I know I’ve never gone since then and I seriously doubt if either of them have.  Still makes me cringe 10-15 years later just thinking about it. Happy lunchtime reading,      - Ken —     "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly,       and I did.  I said I didn’t know."     — Mark Twain

Response:

 There’s so much noise in these freestone streams that you can wade with a fair amount of ruckus without spooking the fish.

    with all due respect, steve, i will put you and that goddam horse at the mouth of hazel creek, give you your choice of equipment, and give you one hundred dollars for every fish you can catch from dawn to dark.  in return, you will pay me a thousand bucks if you fail to bring a fish to hand.  shit, the rainbows in hazel creek will spook a hundred yards in both directions if audrey hepburn’s ghost slips on an orange slider!     wayno, who is put in mind of the shotgunned killdeer of the tejas.

Response:

The problem is what to do with the fish when I hook it. My plan is to cut the hook bends off of dry flies and just fish for rises. Does this sound totally crazy?

How about using a net with a 6′ handle? But if that’s too much work, you might just consider paying someone to fish for you–you can just watch from a distance on horseback and that way you’ll have at least one hand free to make calls on your satellite phone. –Steve

Response:

How about using a net with a 6′ handle? But if that’s too much work, you might just consider paying someone to fish for you–you can just watch from a distance on horseback and that way you’ll have at least one hand free to make calls on your satellite phone.

If he’d hunt from it too, and wear a fur coat, PETA could just focus on him and leave everyone else alone (especially if he bought the Wienermobile to tow his horse trailer to the stream)<g. — Charlie…

Response:

If he’d hunt from it too, and wear a fur coat, PETA could just focus on him and leave everyone else alone (especially if he bought the Wienermobile to tow his horse trailer to the stream)<g. — Charlie…

Arlo could trot behind fitted up with an antler tied to his head like the dog in Grinch Who Stole Christmas! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

If he’d hunt from it too<

You know the old joke – "can I shoot off this horse?"  "Sure."  Guy comes back all beat up, wants his money back.  Seller reminds him, "I said you could shoot OFF him, not ON him!" <g

Response:

Don’t laugh. I’m serious. The next logical step is actually fishing FROM THE HORSE!

        i’m really worried about wolfgang.  at this point, there have been a dozen responses to this post, and he remains silent.         could someone check the e.r.’s in milwaukee? wayno, always thinking of his friends.

Response:

rw,    One of my wildest rides occurred when mounting a horse with a fishing rod in hand. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t laugh. I’m serious. When I got my horse in June he was afraid of flyrods. Thought they were whips, I suppose. He’s over that now. I can mount and ride him with a flyrod. It’s really fun to ride from hole to hole, dismounting for a few casts, sticking around if there’s action, and moving on if there’s not. There’s lots of water around here where you can do that without disturbing anyone. The next logical step is actually fishing FROM THE HORSE! I want to eliminate this dismounting and tying up bullshit. I know places where I could wade upstream (mounted, of course) and cast to lots of riffles, pocket water, and shoreline, kind of like a drift boat in reverse. The problem is what to do with the fish when I hook it. My plan is to cut the hook bends off of dry flies and just fish for rises. Does this sound totally crazy? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ to something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

True….a rod in hand is definitely not very romantic…..john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rw,   One of my wildest rides occurred when mounting a horse with a fishing rod in hand. Ernie Don’t laugh. I’m serious. When I got my horse in June he was afraid of flyrods. Thought they were whips, I suppose. He’s over that now. I can mount and ride him with a flyrod. It’s really fun to ride from hole to hole, dismounting for a few casts, sticking around if there’s action, and moving on if there’s not. There’s lots of water around here where you can do that without disturbing anyone. The next logical step is actually fishing FROM THE HORSE! I want to eliminate this dismounting and tying up bullshit. I know places where I could wade upstream (mounted, of course) and cast to lots of riffles, pocket water, and shoreline, kind of like a drift boat in reverse. The problem is what to do with the fish when I hook it. My plan is to cut the hook bends off of dry flies and just fish for rises. Does this sound totally crazy? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ to something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I hope someone is around with a camera<g. I wonder how the horse will like fish jumping and splashing next to it, not to mention the line tangled around its legs…

Willi can attest to the fact that I did an incredible hopping/dancing routine in a slippery Madison riffle when a fish came straight at me and swam through my legs.  (Yeah, it was a whitefish… so?)  If you put tassles on your horse and braided its mane, I’d pay good money to see a horse do the same thing. Regards, Jeff

Response:

can you image the affect of a bad sinktip cast whipping across its rump?

I believe the technical term is "yee haw"<g. — Charlie…

Response:

A camel might be a better idea. Puts a whole new perspective on fishing with humpys !:) TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

Thanks everyone! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi! Might anyone know places for fly fishing lessons in the Greater Wash. D.C. Area? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Eric Eric, Smith Coleman is an outstanding fly fishing instructor and works from his shop in Outdoor Adventures on Rt. 3 in Fredericksburg/Spotsylvania Virginia.  Excellent one-on-one lesson packages.  For a bit more advance lessons try Harry Murray in Edinburg Virginia over in the Valley. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

– Eric Schurr                     Coord. for Public Relations Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering University of Maryland         2409 A.V. Williams Bldg. College Park, Maryland 20742 Phone: (301)405-3516 Fax: (301)314-9281

Response:

Hi! Might anyone know places for fly fishing lessons in the Greater Wash. D.C. Area? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Eric

Response:

Hi! Might anyone know places for fly fishing lessons in the Greater Wash. D.C. Area? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Eric

Eric, Smith Coleman is an outstanding fly fishing instructor and works from his shop in Outdoor Adventures on Rt. 3 in Fredericksburg/Spotsylvania Virginia.  Excellent one-on-one lesson packages.  For a bit more advance lessons try Harry Murray in Edinburg Virginia over in the Valley. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Hi! Might anyone know places for fly fishing lessons in the Greater Wash. D.C. Area? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I took a very good class a few years ago from TROUT AND ABOUT. They have different length classes, and also trips if you like. http://www.troutandabout.com/ — Jeff Cook http://www.cookstudios.com Washington DC area

Response:

Question:

Hi I am off pretty soon for Spring break also, I live just outside of Spokane Wa. for a while I lived in Grangeville ID, Where is a good place to go around here? I moved here about a year and a half ago, but worked it mostly, so I didn’t get out much… I know the canyons at Hell’s gate, or Pittsburgh landing, near White bird ID, should be warming up just a touch, like 65-70, which to me is real warm.. at this point. Or go to Lewiston ID or the S.E. Or side of the Snake river.. I can’t decide… What’s going on now? I mean hatch wise… I also heard the Henry’s Fork was good also in the middle of to end of march.. Any body have any info? Thanks!  R.J. Baynum ICQ 29449252

Response:

<<Hi I am off pretty soon for Spring break also, I live just outside of Spokane Wa. for a while I lived in Grangeville ID, Where is a good place to go around here? I moved here about a year and a half ago, but worked it mostly, so I didn’t get out much… I know the canyons at Hell’s gate, or Pittsburgh landing, near White bird ID, should be warming up just a touch, like 65-70, which to me is real warm.. at this point. Or go to Lewiston ID or the S.E. Or side of the Snake river.. I can’t decide… What’s going on now? I mean hatch wise… I also heard the Henry’s Fork was good also in the middle of to end of march.. Any body have any info? Thanks!  R.J. Baynum ICQ 29449252 Hey R.J.  We need to hook up and go flyfishing together.  I too live about 20 minutes South of Spokane and am always looking for new fishing buddies. The best bet for this time of year is the St. Joe by St. Maries, ID.  Call Propps Fly Shop or the Silver Bow for water conditions and hatch information. They can also direct you to what else is hot right now. There is also some tremendous lake fishing starting to happen in the Columbia Basin.  If  you want to get into some fish over the 20 inch mark the Lake Lenice or Lenore are the places to be. Email me and let’s plan a trip. Mike Wilson

Response:

Question:

This is really addressed to manufacturers and fly shop owners/operators. Are there any trade publications geared to the fly fishing industry? I’m familiar with all of the consumer titles, but would be interested to find out about any trade/industry titles. Thanks for your help.

Response:

‘Fly Tackle Dealer"  Contact the people at ‘Rod & Reel’. A.J.Thramer

Response:

Question:

[Item 1] Then there are those who drive bigger boats that think because their boat is bigger, they have the right to direct your boat.

[Item 2] Then there are those with smaller boats (canoes in my case) that are too afraid that you’ll swamp them or get angry that the wake you leave will ruin their weekend.

[Item 3] And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances.

I think I must be a little confused by what you’ve written — do you see no contradiction between your complaint in item 1 and your attitude in item 3, which essentially dictates what boats smaller than yours are allowed to do? And, are you really saying in items 2 & 3 that you have no compunctions about swamping canoes simply because they are smaller than your boat?  And your justification is that you feel great hardship is imposed upon you by the cost of maintaining your larger boat?  (Sorry, I inadvertantly deleted that part of your post.) Do you see no contradiction here?

Response:

I don’t know or care what your problem is but you just made it on my kill list. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Re: Is boating worth it? AT&T Newsgroups: rec.boats References: snip I used to live on a little pond where a guy put a big boat with the name Suck My Wake painted in huge letters on the side. You’d like him,                                           jc Funny, I named my sailboat "Blow Me". Garry Heon First Stepp My Opinions….Lucent’s Network. Garry,  I appreciate your above response.  It appears that a number of smart-ass lawyers replied  to my supposed lack of concern regarding my wake. Admiralty Lawyer  W.Smith referred to me as an ‘ASSHOLE’ in his email msg.  Just remember:  LAWYER + BOAT = FLOATING SHIT  Regards.  D.G.

D. George Jensen San Diego, CA, USA

Response:

asshole I’d kick your fucking ass and piss on your face Cause its really obvious that’s the only type of communication you understand !!! your a dam dickwad mother fucker .. See asshole I don’t need no fucking attorney to take care of your sorry peace of shit Not only do I own a 42 foot Ketch that I built in my own back yard "10 years in the making". But  I also own a 12 foot aluminum Fishing boat . I happen to like catfish !!! Last year I was swamped by a 32 foot power boat in a 300 foot wide channel The mother fucker had the odasidy to fly the third digit as he passed me in the channel . well that’s the last time that asshole flew that finger!!!!! I BROKE IT Yea see there is only two ways you can go on a river he might have got away with it if we where on the big bad ocean but we weren’t ,, I caught up with the asshole at restaurant/bar a few miles up stream Needless to say I spent 30 days in county for fucking this asshole up but it was worth it… I dint like watching my tackle box float down stream … I’ve been a framer half my fucking life I know how to swing a hammer might knock some fucking courtesy into it   I walk the walk,  I talk the talk . and  Ill kick your fucking ass if I ever see  you ASSHOLE  if ya wana meet dickwad  "ANYWARE ANY TIME ASSHOLE"   Email me – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The first thing you learn when boating is that others like to tell you how to drive it. If you have female passengers, they will complain that you are not driving in a manner considerate to their physical attributes. Then there are those who drive bigger boats that think because their boat is bigger, they have the right to direct your boat. Then there are those with smaller boats (canoes in my case) that are too afraid that you’ll swamp them or get angry that the wake you leave will ruin their weekend. My reply to complaining females is that they should strap their parts down before getting on board.  To those who like to give orders from other boats or shore: EAT MY WAKE. And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances. It’s bad enough fixing the boat to keep it running.  But this extra crap: tell it to someone who cares.

Response:

  It appears that a number of smart-ass lawyers replied   to my supposed lack of concern regarding my wake. Admiralty Lawyer   W.Smith referred to me as an ‘ASSHOLE’ in his email msg.

Oh Gee, Dave, I’m sorry.  I thought ASSHOLE was the name of your boat.   Hey Dave, the sooner you end up in federal prison, the better off the boating world will be. —         Wm. G. Smith         Admiralty Lawyer         P.O. Box 3017         Framingham, Mass. 01705         (508)877-3119 Practicing in Admiralty, Environmental and Coastal Land Use Planning Visit my web page at http://www.netcom.com/~w.smith/admiralty.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Re: Is boating worth it? AT&T Newsgroups: rec.boats References: snip I used to live on a little pond where a guy put a big boat with the name Suck My Wake painted in huge letters on the side. You’d like him,                                               jc Funny, I named my sailboat "Blow Me". Garry Heon First Stepp My Opinions….Lucent’s Network.

Garry,   I appreciate your above response.   It appears that a number of smart-ass lawyers replied   to my supposed lack of concern regarding my wake. Admiralty Lawyer   W.Smith referred to me as an ‘ASSHOLE’ in his email msg.   Just remember:  LAWYER + BOAT = FLOATING SHIT   Regards.   D.G.

Response:

I’m just very glad I don’t boat WITH you or NEAR you.

Response:

snip I used to live on a little pond where a guy put a big boat with the name Suck My Wake painted in huge letters on the side. You’d like him,                                            jc

Funny, I named my sailboat "Blow Me". Garry Heon First Stepp My Opinions….Lucent’s Network.

Response:

And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances.

 Regardless of a no wake zone or not, I would hope you that if you’re close enough to swamp a smaller craft with your wake that you would slow down. If not then you take your own chances, because if there are witnesses you could face criminal or civil prosecution. The usual disclaimers apply.

Response:

The first thing you learn when boating is that others like to tell you how to drive it. If you have female passengers, they will complain that you are not driving in a manner considerate to their physical attributes. Then there are those who drive bigger boats that think because their boat is bigger, they have the right to direct your boat. Then there are those with smaller boats (canoes in my case) that are too afraid that you’ll swamp them or get angry that the wake you leave will ruin their weekend. My reply to complaining females is that they should strap their parts down before getting on board.  To those who like to give orders from other boats or shore: EAT MY WAKE. And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances. It’s bad enough fixing the boat to keep it running.  But this extra crap: tell it to someone who cares.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The first thing you learn when boating is that others like to tell you how to drive it. If you have female passengers, they will complain that you are not driving in a manner considerate to their physical attributes. Then there are those who drive bigger boats that think because their boat is bigger, they have the right to direct your boat. Then there are those with smaller boats (canoes in my case) that are too afraid that you’ll swamp them or get angry that the wake you leave will ruin their weekend. My reply to complaining females is that they should strap their parts down before getting on board.  To those who like to give orders from other boats or shore: EAT MY WAKE. And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances. It’s bad enough fixing the boat to keep it running.  But this extra crap: tell it to someone who cares.

Please go to school. Boating is great fun but you must obey the rules. As far as your wake goes, you are legally and financially responsible for any damages caused by your wake, anywhere, anytime. —            /       Michael W. Madden          / |      215 898-0939        _/  |        /   |      I’d rather be sailing!

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The first thing you learn when boating is that others like to tell you how to drive it. If you have female passengers, they will complain that you are not driving in a manner considerate to their physical attributes. Then there are those who drive bigger boats that think because their boat is bigger, they have the right to direct your boat. Then there are those with smaller boats (canoes in my case) that are too afraid that you’ll swamp them or get angry that the wake you leave will ruin their weekend. My reply to complaining females is that they should strap their parts down before getting on board.  To those who like to give orders from other boats or shore: EAT MY WAKE. And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances. It’s bad enough fixing the boat to keep it running.  But this extra crap: tell it to someone who cares.

I used to live on a little pond where a guy put a big boat with the name Suck My Wake painted in huge letters on the side. You’d like him, he’d pretty much swamp anyone who messed with him on this 1 X .5 mile stretch of water. He’s up in N.Berwick Maine if you feel like tracking him down and starting a club or something….                                                 jc

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The first thing you learn when boating is that others like to tell you how to drive it.

Yeah, who needs to hear all that crap about how you should operate your boat from the International Maritime Organization, the Coast Guard or the State Boating Law Administrator!  Screw ‘em. Then there are those who drive bigger boats that think because their boat is bigger, they have the right to direct your boat.

They may or may not, depending on the circumstances prevailing at the time, have a right to expect you’ll get out of their way.  Under other circumstances, you have a right to expect that they will get out of your way.  If they don’t, you have a positive duty under the law to take prompt, efficient actions to avoid a collision. Then there are those with smaller boats (canoes in my case) that are too afraid that you’ll swamp them or get angry that the wake you leave will ruin their weekend.

It may do worse than that; it may injure or kill them. To those who like to give orders from other boats or shore: EAT MY WAKE.

Another writer has already said this, but it bears repeating: You are personally liable for all damage done by your wake at all times.  Rule 6 of both the Inland and International Rules of the Road absolutely require all mariners to operate at a safe speed at all times.  Whether or not your speed was safe will be determined by whether or not your wake does any damage or by whether you could have avoided doing any kind of damage by proceeding at a slower speed. And those boats smaller than I:  Unless there is a no wake zone – you take your chances.

If you really do operate in this manner, it constitutes "Grossly Negligent Operation" and is a Federal CRIME, punishable by a fine of up to $5,000 and up to a year in prison or both.  Personally, I wish the Coast Guard would forget about drugs for a while and more vigorously enforce and prosecute under this statute.  People like you belong in jail. It’s bad enough fixing the boat to keep it running.  But this extra crap: tell it to someone who cares.

There is a legal term to describe someone like you:  ASSHOLE. —         Wm. G. Smith         Admiralty Lawyer         P.O. Box 3017         Framingham, Mass. 01705         (508)877-3119 Practicing in Admiralty, Environmental and Coastal Land Use Planning Visit my web page at http://www.netcom.com/~w.smith/admiralty.html

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Question:

I am in the process of opening a new fly shop and would like to know of some fly wholesalers.  Please E-mail me with any info.  Shop owners, your help would be greatly appreciated.  THANKS

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I am in the process of opening a new fly shop and would like to know of some fly wholesalers.  Please E-mail me with any info.  Shop owners, your help would be greatly appreciated.  THANKS

Hi Dan Bailey’s is a good source of wholesale flies. Call 800-356-4052. Good Luck. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

: What are the pros and cons of the expensive fly lines vs. the lower end : lines.  For example the Cortland 444 lazer vs the 333 lines.  Thanks   There are differences when you compare these two lines. The Cortland 444 is the industry standard fly line. It is offered in many more types and configurations than the 333. The 333 is the predecessor to the 444. The 444 is more supple, longer lasting, and slick than the 333. It also comes with a one year warrenty against failure. My experience with Cortland is that any 444 line returned will be replaced for free. This happened one year at the shop where we had many customers come back with defective lines. We had instructions from Cortland to take back all lines at that time. Their testing showed that they had a bad batch!   There is also a higher performance level with the more expensive lines. I find that they float higher and are easier to cast. The best line Cortland currently has is the 444 LazerLine. It has a textered finish. This line is the most supple, easiest mending, and farthest shooting line of any "general purpose" trout line I have used. Both 333 and 444 are good lines Jon Porter

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What are the pros and cons of the expensive fly lines vs. the lower end lines.  For example the Cortland 444 lazer vs the 333 lines.  Thanks

In my opinion there aren’t many differences between lines that make a huge difference.  Higher priced lines are usually made from better materials(tougher, stronger, self lubricating, Uv resistant, etc.) but the taper really isn’t a measure of "quality".  It all depends on your casting style and requirements.  Some line may better match your technique and give better results (i.e. some people may perfere the same line in double taper vs. weight forward or vice versa).  Your fishing requirements (if they are very specific)  may demand that you must spend the extra money for a higher   end line but that is sometimes the nature of the beast!  Good luck,                         Joshua Haddock

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Question:

I’ll be turkey hunting in the florida area next week and was wondering if anyone has any experiance fishing the cold upstream of rte 2. Ive never fished it but seen it deep in the woods and it looks tasty but I never threw a fly there. Any info would be great!! P.S. I dont mind walking

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: I’ll be turkey hunting in the florida area next week and was wondering if : anyone has any experiance fishing the cold upstream of rte 2. Ive never : fished it but seen it deep in the woods and it looks tasty but I never : threw a fly there. : Any info would be great!! : P.S. I dont mind walking The Deerfield River guidebook describes it as a highly variable flowing stream with a small population of wild brookies.  I know the state stocks it, but I’m not sure with what, and there’s always the chance that big fish from that nice pool on the deerfield that the cold empties into could have come upstream.  I don’t know if the state stocks this river anywhere upstream of the last route 2 bridge.  They may, but I’m sure most of the fishing pressure is on the lower stretches.

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Question:

There may be less people doing overnight backpack trips, but I bet there are more people in the backcountry overall and doing a much more diverse set of activities. Which is very good news for us that do like to backpack: less people in the backcountry.  There might be more people in the woods but they all leave at dark.  I was talking to a fellow the other day who said he did quite

Oops! Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply we’re not in the backcountry after dark.  Many times I’m bivouaced on a ledge while climbing or camping in sagebrush near a remote desrt cave in Wyoming. So what I meant to imply is that besides the diversity of day trips many of us pack gear into remote places during mountaineering, caving, and whitewater trips that backpackers normally don’t visit. I’ve never seen backpackers on the East Ridge of the Grand Teton, or in the desert near Bighorn caverns, or along some of the remote stretches of whitewater in central Idaho, so there ARE more people in the backcountry overnight far from trailheads and vehicles, but in different places than backpackers normally go. I think what I’m getting at is, we are using backpacking as a mode of trasportation for some other goal, and not an end in itself. I’m not a "backpacker", yet backpacking is a critical part of getting to a lot of remote activities where I do spend the night. I’ve probably spent 300 night camped in backcountry far from roads in the past 6 or 7 years and only 3 of those night were on what I would call a backpacking trip. Steve —

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Eugene Miya: What worries me more are the borderline Wilcox’s out there reading the net (you can quote me on that).  I know a few in everyday life, and I lost one a couple of years back.  That is evolution in action. –eugene Steve Reiser:   Hi Eugene, I read your posting on "In the Hall of the Mountain King" and "White Winds", both of which I’ve read and have copies of.  Snyder indicated a lot of bad judgement by Wilcox.  Wilcox tries to be objective in his book, but one can’t help but notice his omissions. He seemed to cover up his errors not by arguing with Snyder’s account, but by ignoring them altogether. His book seemed somewhat defensive, especially at the end when he talks about all the grief he went through in the press afterword. I think Snyder probably gave an honest account, which arouses some wrath toward Wilcox, in most readers.  I didn’t like the way Wilcox covered his errors, but I was convinced that he suffered enough condemnation afterword to make me feel a bit sorry for him. I think his response was a bit overly defensive to the media, the Park Service, and the relatives of those who died. I would imagine that Wilcox’s attempt to gloss over his errors may have been part of the inspiration for Snyder to write his book in the first place. Hence, if Wilcox would have been more honest in the first place, it’s possible that neither book would have ever been written. It’s hard to read both books and not come up with mixed feelings toward Wilcox.  It’s tempting to feel some anger toward him for lack of good judgement, especially on their summit day for the second group, and at the same time feeling some sympathy for the weight of blame layed on him, since he was the expedition leader. (Snyder was better qualified to be the leader of the group.) Steve Reiser P.S – Seven friends of mine left yesterday for the Denali. I wish them well. (They’re more experienced than most in the books discussed above). If this appears twice, I first posted without a subject. —

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I think what I’m getting at is, we are using backpacking as a mode of trasportation for some other goal, and not an end in itself. I’m not a "backpacker", yet backpacking is a critical part of getting to a lot of remote activities where I do spend the night. I’ve probably spent 300 night camped in backcountry far from roads in the past 6 or 7 years and only 3 of those night were on what I would call a backpacking trip.

Maybe we have a problem with semantics here.  I think if you hike off into the woods with a backpack, you’re backpacking, no matter what the end result is.  I pack in to climb mountains, do caves, search for minerals, etc. and consider that backpacking.  Cripes, those packs are heavy – I’m not doing it for fun. Well, maybe I am.  Either way, I’m still pleased that there are less people out there when sunset finishes and the stars come out.

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There may be less people doing overnight backpack trips, but I bet there are more people in the backcountry overall and doing a much more diverse set of activities.

Which is very good news for us that do like to backpack: less people in the backcountry.  There might be more people in the woods but they all leave at dark.  I was talking to a fellow the other day who said he did quite a bit of backpacking in the early 70’s.  He said that he would hike 10 miles into the backcountry and see several groups of people back there too and think nothing of it.  Other than my group of friends, I don’t know anyone at all that backpacks and I almost never see anyone else in the backcountry (outside of hunters, that is).  One would think that there would at least be trail bikers back there but they seem to be more into ‘day-biking’.  I’m not complaining, of course, I’m happy.

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I thought some might find this article interesting – DH [some deleted] ON THE DECLINE   Overnight and longer backpacking trips are a sport on the decline, said Christy Metz, public information specialist for Rocky Mountain National Park. In their place, the number of day hikers and campground campers are growing. Backpacking began increasing in the early ’70s, peaked in the late ’70s, and has been falling ever since.  In 1977, Rocky Mountain National Park issued 62,708 back-country permits; in 1989, 32,792.

However, if you look at statistics for many other backcountry activities, you’ll find a drastic increase. Mountaineering, technical rock climbing, kayaking, mountain biking, spelunking, and many other backcountry sports are experiencing nearly exponential growth.  I see more people specializing in specific sports in the backcountry and less who are out strictly backpacking. DIVERSIFY   Some salespeople at moutaineering shops, however, are a bit hesitant to see their lines diversify too much.  Many tempered their enthusiasm for expansion with a note of service to the true back country lover.

This hesitation to diversify has cost many local stores business in specialized gear, more of which is sold through mail order companies.  I probably buy 50% of my outdoor gear through mail order due to this hesitance in local store.  I’m into all of the sports I listed above and the diversity of gear required is far more than most outdoor shops are willing to carry. My point here in comparison to the original article is to note that even though outdoor gear is fashionable on the streets, day hikes, and campgrounds, and with backpacking on the decline, there is still an exploding market for specialized backcoutry sports. There may be less people doing overnight backpack trips, but I bet there are more people in the backcountry overall and doing a much more diverse set of activities. Steve —

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I thought some might find this article interesting – DH Backpacking Outlets Expand Bottom Line    by Susan Simmons Eustes Boulder Business Report – May 1990    Despite a dramatic drop in number of campers and tourists trekking into the back country, area mountaineering stores say their sales are growing every year.    The day when the Vasque hiking boots were the "casual" loafer for many Boulderites has long disappeared.  Today, lighter and brighter are in demand and traditional mountaineering stores are expanding product lines to include gear for every sport from kayaking to mountain biking.    Like it or not, the mountaineering "look" continues to be fashionable in Boulder.  "You always want the ‘in’ look, whether you are hiking the mall or hiking Flagstaff," said John Whitbeck, manager at the north face in Boulder. "People want to wear clothing that identifies them as outdoorsy." ON THE DECLINE    Overnight and longer backpacking trips are a sport on the decline, said Christy Metz, public information specialist for Rocky Mountain National Park. In their place, the number of day hikers and campground campers are growing. Backpacking began increasing in the early ’70s, peaked in the late ’70s, and has been falling ever since.  In 1977, Rocky Mountain National Park issued 62,708 back-country permits; in 1989, 32,792.    … In 1985, the first year permits were issued for Indian Peaks [Wilderness Area], 2,134 were requested.  In 1989, 1,550 permits were requested.    So what does this mean for the people who sell camp stoves, sleeping bags, and hiking shoes?    It means even more business, said Whitbeck.    "In our 15 retail stores, without exception, business has been up a mile." The selling point for The North Face, and other mountain stores, is the dramatic shift in outdoor gear lines from the products carried 15 years ago. The traditional business of boots, packs and tents has mushroomed to include equipment for outdoor sports as varied as cross-country skiing or fly fishing. DIVERSIFY    As baby boomers married and began to raise children, more chose day hikes or more convenient overnight stays in campgrounds, say Jim Wilson of the back- country office at Rocky Mountain National Park. …    … (examples of stores diversifying) …    Dan Hare, manager of The Boulder Mountaineer, said his sales of backpacks and sleeping bags continues to increase, but "lots of people buy backpacks that never go into the back country," he added.    Shannon Long, manager at the Boulder Army Store, has noticed more of his customers are car camping and buying more for convenience.  Such campers, however, often opt for the more expensive lines.    "Ten years ago, people weren’t buying high-tech stuff.  They weren’t into buying brand names.  They were more concerned about getting a good product for a low price."    Clothing is a big seller for most outdoor shops.  Color are big, as are brand names and high fashion, mountain store owners agree.    Everybody likes rugby shirts and cotton shorts, said Phil Hollman, salesman at The North Face.  "Colors and style – people are really taken with that as much as we like to think they weren’t," Hollman said.  "Everything is getting more specialized: new technologies, new fabrics, lighter weight and very colorful."    Wools and cottons are taking a back seat to newer, more durable and comfortable fabrics such as Goretex, Dudley said.  And with the newer fabrics come higher prices.    The "tech heads" want the best, Noel added.  People want the fiberglass tent poles, the lightweight backpacks and the warmer, more water repellant clothing even if it means higher prices.    Some salespeople at moutaineering shops, however, are a bit hesitant to see their lines diversify too much.  Many tempered their enthusiasm for expansion with a note of service to the true back country lover.    Image and brand names mean more to people than store managers care to admit, [Mountain Sports buyer Scott] Lee said.  "We’re not quite as trendy a store as some …  We don’t want to lose our image as a mountaineering shop."

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