Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stan, I’m tracing my package via the internet, an option I didn’t have with the batch that got lost, since I sent that one with ordinary mail. Anyway, the package has already left Sweden and is flewn over the Atlantic Ocean this very minute. With a bit of luck it should arrive on Friday. Them flies are getting to be really expensive, I mean, they were tied twice and sent twice. If only I could say that I was a good tier it might have made sense, but since I said I would send flies I felt I had to give it another try.

I, for one, appreciate the "stand-by-your-commitment" attitude you display. — TL, Tim . . .and you aren’t going to make your money back based on the ones *I* tied.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stan, I’m tracing my package via the internet, an option I didn’t have with the batch that got lost, since I sent that one with ordinary mail. Anyway, the package has already left Sweden and is flewn over the Atlantic Ocean this very minute. With a bit of luck it should arrive on Friday. Them flies are getting to be really expensive, I mean, they were tied twice and sent twice. If only I could say that I was a good tier it might have made sense, but since I said I would send flies I felt I had to give it another try. I, for one, appreciate the "stand-by-your-commitment" attitude you display. — TL, Tim . . .and you aren’t going to make your money back based on the ones *I* tied.

/Roger If I were into fly fishing and related stuff to make money, with my approach I’d be named a bankrupt idiot.   =)

Response:

Nothing to report really, nothing has arrived since Monday.  As far as I can tell, here’s the latest tally: Already received: *Scott Seidman: tungsten-beaded sulfur nymph *Stan Gula: Zug Bug variant *Tim Johnson: PT nymph *Svend Tang-Petersen: poxy back general mayfly *Randy Kane: flash back PT *John Whiteley: Sawyer PT *Stephen Welsh: Peacock and Possum *Wolfgang: Plain vanilla GRHE *Joe Fleischman: GRW *Jim Rahn: ‘The Generic’ *Shawn Armstrong: Gold Bead Head Cress Bug *Hans van der Stroom: Ritz D Waiting for: Rocktrout(aka Bouncer): Mountain Midge Roger Ohlund: caddis pupae, with beadhead Clark Reid: unknown Herman Nijland: suspender polder nymph Paul Goodwin: a surprise Bouncer, what’s your status?  Does anybody have his email address? Roger feels his package is lost (he mailed it 3 weeks ago) and will be sending another set by package courier instead of post. Next Thursday is Thanksgiving and I’m going to be tied up with transportation, shopping and chef duties most of the week so it looks like we will wait until Saturday at least.  I’ll check in then and we can decide what to do about missing flies.  On Saturday we can decide the ultimate cutoff date, but I propose that we need to (at come point) distribute the ones I’ve received, and all participants, whether their delivery is here or not, should get a set.  Any late arriving flies will be donated to 2003 claves or other worthy cause at my discretion.  One set will be saved for Tim Apple, and at least one set will be donated to Dave LaCourse’s friend in Maine. –Stan

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nothing to report really, nothing has arrived since Monday.  As far as I can tell, here’s the latest tally: Already received: *Scott Seidman: tungsten-beaded sulfur nymph *Stan Gula: Zug Bug variant *Tim Johnson: PT nymph *Svend Tang-Petersen: poxy back general mayfly *Randy Kane: flash back PT *John Whiteley: Sawyer PT *Stephen Welsh: Peacock and Possum *Wolfgang: Plain vanilla GRHE *Joe Fleischman: GRW *Jim Rahn: ‘The Generic’ *Shawn Armstrong: Gold Bead Head Cress Bug *Hans van der Stroom: Ritz D Waiting for: Rocktrout(aka Bouncer): Mountain Midge Roger Ohlund: caddis pupae, with beadhead Clark Reid: unknown Herman Nijland: suspender polder nymph Paul Goodwin: a surprise Bouncer, what’s your status?  Does anybody have his email address? Roger feels his package is lost (he mailed it 3 weeks ago) and will be sending another set by package courier instead of post. Next Thursday is Thanksgiving and I’m going to be tied up with transportation, shopping and chef duties most of the week so it looks like we will wait until Saturday at least.  I’ll check in then and we can decide what to do about missing flies.  On Saturday we can decide the ultimate cutoff date, but I propose that we need to (at come point) distribute the ones I’ve received, and all participants, whether their delivery is here or not, should get a set.  Any late arriving flies will be donated to 2003 claves or other worthy cause at my discretion.  One set will be saved for Tim Apple, and at least one set will be donated to Dave LaCourse’s friend in Maine. –Stan

Sounds good to me, Stan, tho I’m in no rush personally.  These nymphs in no way resemble anything I’ll be fishin with in Dec!  Let’s put off the real decision till the Tues or Wed after Thanksgiving, if you don’t mind, to give travellers a chance to get home, and holiday mail lags a chance to catch up. I have no trouble with the everyone whos in gets a set thing, whether flies show or not.  Makes the latecoming flies collectors items, and a challenge to complete your set!  Kind of like baseball cards when I was a kid. — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

<snip –Stan (nymphs everywhere)

I thought it was wayno and/or Wolfgang that had this, er, problem. — TL, Tim

Response:

Stan, I’m tracing my package via the internet, an option I didn’t have with the batch that got lost, since I sent that one with ordinary mail. Anyway, the package has already left Sweden and is flewn over the Atlantic Ocean this very minute. With a bit of luck it should arrive on Friday. Them flies are getting to be really expensive, I mean, they were tied twice and sent twice. If only I could say that I was a good tier it might have made sense, but since I said I would send flies I felt I had to give it another try. /Roger Still have my fingers crossed though, one never knows where the mail might fail.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have heard from Herman and Roger that their flies are on the way.

Response:

One more time… Here we are two weeks past the deadline, and still waiting.  Clark’s flies arrived today (and I spilled them all over my kitchen floor) but there are still two non-US entries missing in the mail, and two US entries just plain missing in action.  I have heard from Herman and Roger that their flies are on the way.  Since I’ll be very busy this week and I can’t do the packaging and mailing until Sunday anyway, I’m going to wait until then.  I really want to give Roger and Herman a chance because I think these non-US flies are worth the wait.  Salmonfly and Bouncer, this is your last notice – if you’re in contact me. On Sunday I start packaging. –Stan (nymphs everywhere)

Response:

Nothing to report really, nothing has arrived since Monday.  As far as I can tell, here’s the latest tally:

Well heck; if’n I’d known I had this much time I’d have tied better flies. Joe F.

Response:

Gotta love a fly called "Trout Crack." Pretty soon, you’re on the stuff solid, rarely sleeping, breaking close family ties, sleeping outdoors, and waking up with week-old stubble and a wicked hangover. My stubble is more like 25 years old, but that sure sounds familiar.

Yeah, that was Penns Clave #1 — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

Here’s a (bad) picture of the full set so you can get a dim idea what’s coming. http://gula.org/images/flies.jpg Gotta love a fly called "Trout Crack."

It’s not funny. At first you just have a little on a recreational basis. Pretty soon, you’re on the stuff solid, rarely sleeping, breaking close family ties, sleeping outdoors, and waking up with week-old stubble and a wicked hangover. — TL, Tim Of course, you could just be at a ‘clave.

Response:

Gotta love a fly called "Trout Crack." Pretty soon, you’re on the stuff solid, rarely sleeping, breaking close family ties, sleeping outdoors, and waking up with week-old stubble and a wicked hangover.

My stubble is more like 25 years old, but that sure sounds familiar.

Response:

They start going out today.  All the preaddressed containers are going out in an hour.  The others, where I have to write addresses, are going tomorrow. Here’s a (bad) picture of the full set so you can get a dim idea what’s coming. http://gula.org/images/flies.jpg Hope you all are enjoying the holidays!

Good job, swapmeister pro tem — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

Here’s a (bad) picture of the full set so you can get a dim idea what’s coming. http://gula.org/images/flies.jpg

Gotta love a fly called "Trout Crack." Frank Reid

Response:

They start going out today.  All the preaddressed containers are going out in an hour.  The others, where I have to write addresses, are going tomorrow. Here’s a (bad) picture of the full set so you can get a dim idea what’s coming. http://gula.org/images/flies.jpg Hope you all are enjoying the holidays!

Response:

Question:

Ken Fortenberry: You’re about the last one I’d expect to entertain ROFF with jingoistic melodrama. After watching the Whidby Naval Air reunion, let me be the first to say, Ken, bleed out your ears *and* eyes.  God Bless America, the U.S. Navy and our brave men and women who enable you to be such an insufferable intolerant little prick.

of course, you don’t live in washington state and have to watch the local s(news)…. this is all we’ve been hearing about and what we’ll be hearing about til the next disaster <G. i’m glad they’re back…. but i’d like to see the media give them a little bit of a break so they can have some real private time with their families and loved ones. chris

Response:

Dave, not trying to judge your age here, but by any chance were you one of those guys that got out of the draft during vietnam? I only say this because you seem to have such disdain for the military. I think I understand your disgust with the overdramatization in which military people attribute to their jobs….I did a 6 year stint in the Navy myself, and enjoyed it, but I find that too often fellow vets are just too quick to point out the fact that they served. It’s almost like they’re rubbing it in others’ faces. I have followed the plight of the aircrew held in China with some interest. I feel that the government/military is making way too big a deal of this, for publicity’s sake, than should be. All that said…I do respect the simple fact that being hel captive in a foreign communist country, no matter what the accomodations (in this case very plush) and treatment, would be a scary and dangerous situation to be in (history tells us this). For that, sure, let’s have a parade and welcome these folks home (especially if they were able to destroy any sensitive equipment on that plane before it went down).

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken Fortenberry: You’re about the last one I’d expect to entertain ROFF with jingoistic melodrama. After watching the Whidby Naval Air reunion, let me be the first to say, Ken, bleed out your ears *and* eyes.  God Bless America, the U.S. Navy and our brave men and women who enable you to be such an insufferable intolerant little prick. Dave Dave

Response:

Dave, not trying to judge your age here, but by any chance were you one of those guys that got out of the draft during vietnam?

Uhh, Mark,  Dave is a retired Navy Chief, a career military man who is justifiably proud of his service. Ken is the one who wrote the anti military diatribe. You really need to follow these threads a little more carefully before replying, or else get some asbestos skivvies to protect you from the flames.  Just a little friendly advice. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

Ahhh…my apologies for my mistaken left-click, especially to Dave.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave, not trying to judge your age here, but by any chance were you one of those guys that got out of the draft during vietnam? Uhh, Mark,  Dave is a retired Navy Chief, a career military man who is justifiably proud of his service. Ken is the one who wrote the anti military diatribe. You really need to follow these threads a little more carefully before replying, or else get some asbestos skivvies to protect you from the flames.  Just a little friendly advice. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

Dave, not trying to judge your age here, but by any chance were you one of those guys that got out of the draft during vietnam? I only say this because you seem to have such disdain for the military.

Wow, whatever you are smokin is worth every damn nickel you paid! Wolfgang and doubtless dave would love to share it      :)

Response:

… This is a welcome home for a group of Americans …

And much ado about nothing in my book.  … He, like many of us, were expressing a collective sigh of relief, that these men and women returned home to the ruffles and flourishes of the National Anthem and not the saddening strains of Taps.          Frank Reid, MSgt, USAF (Ret)

He and many of you can express your collective sighs elsewhere as far as I’m concerned, Frank. And I’m not impressed by alphabet soup after a man’s name. My younger brother was in the Marine Corps for twenty years, I’m not completely unfamiliar with things military. The military is a necessary evil not a sacred cow and I’m far more impressed with the guy who teaches inner city kids to read than I am with the guy flying spy planes off the coast of China. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Ken,     How ’bout teaching English and math to kids inter-battle zone in Bosnia, where there is a cleared path in the minefield to get to the old warehouse to teach?  How ’bout doing this for free?     How ’bout whole National Guard units that volunteer as a group to drop their jobs and run off to Central America to spend their days humpin sacks of flour to help hurricane victims?     How ’bout spending four nights a week and all day Saturday teaching English, math and biology to Korean orphans who are ostracized because they don’t have parents?  The tutors won’t help, the city won’t help, their own teachers won’t help.  Again, done free, for a year, gratis.  Person’s boss didn’t even know about it.     These are anecdotal.  They are all true. They are all military members. The U.S. military is second only to firefighters in time spent doing volunteer work.  In a lot of towns, those firefighters are military.  You profess to understand the military.  I won’t gainsay that.  Why do you join an organization of computer proffesionals?  Could it be that you identify with those who share your understanding of nibbles and bytes?  We, those former military members, identify with the sacrifices that those currently in the military endure.  The funny thing about military folks is that they often blend in with the scenery.  The are members of ACM, ROFF, but they still identify with their common core of experience in the military.  MSgt Ret is alphabet soup.  However, I only used it since you used ACM. Glass houses my friend.     You, as computer professional, should understand that the U.S. military is not a necessary evil.  It is also not a sacred cow.  It is not that one-dimensional.  However, to trivialize 2.6 million folks to the status of necessary evil is, in and of itself, pretty one dimensional.  It is a group of folks as important as your local fire and police department.  Wherever they go, they try to do some good.  It’s their nature.  They, as a group, will all tell you that they abhor the combat side of their jobs, because, to them, if they have to fight, they’ve failed at peace keeping.     I tell you what, take a group of military folks and ask them to raise their hands if they’ve ever fired a weapon in combat.   Very few hands.  Now ask them if they’ve done 10 or more hours of volunteer work in the last 2 months.  Now ask your computer professional friends if they’ve done 10 or more hours of volunteer work in the last two months.  Hey, it takes a village.  Some of us, i.e. the military have lived in that village all our lives, where others are wandering around screaming that some one should build them one.       Frank Reid – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He and many of you can express your collective sighs elsewhere as far as I’m concerned, Frank. And I’m not impressed by alphabet soup after a man’s name. My younger brother was in the Marine Corps for twenty years, I’m not completely unfamiliar with things military. The military is a necessary evil not a sacred cow and I’m far more impressed with the guy who teaches inner city kids to read than I am with the guy flying spy planes off the coast of China. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

…     These are anecdotal.  They are all true. They are all military members.

And two members of the US military raped a 12 year old Japanese schoolgirl. Pretty useless to trade these examples, I’ll concede that there are both really nice folks and some of the scum of the earth serving in the military. …  MSgt Ret is alphabet soup.  However, I only used it since you used ACM. Glass houses my friend.

include their email address in their .sig, but if you find it untoward Please remember that this is an international forum and excessive chest thumping by the military regardless of nationality is most unseemly. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Ken,      All’s I’m trying to say is that military members are a group of human beings, like educators, like computer professionals.  That’s not chest thumping.  As you said, there are good and bad in every group.  I don’t trivialize any group of people.  To do so is to trivialize all.  To denigrate the work of a group of folks because they are in the military is very small minded.     Oh, by the way, the U.S. is not the only country that has a military. And, oh, by the way, in many countries, the military is a highly respected profession.  Unfortunately, it is mostly in those industrialized nations that have the freedom and wherewithal to be able to afford the time and the money to sit at computers or fly fish.  Wonder if there is a connection there?  Yes, this is an international forum, maybe over the years, you will expand your narrow views to match it.  Now thats chest thumping.     I may not change your mind, but I can try to change your perspective.         Frank

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …     These are anecdotal.  They are all true. They are all military members. And two members of the US military raped a 12 year old Japanese schoolgirl. Pretty useless to trade these examples, I’ll concede that there are both really nice folks and some of the scum of the earth serving in the military. …  MSgt Ret is alphabet soup.  However, I only used it since you used ACM. Glass houses my friend. include their email address in their .sig, but if you find it untoward Please remember that this is an international forum and excessive chest thumping by the military regardless of nationality is most unseemly. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

…  I don’t trivialize any group of people.  

To call the military a necessary evil is not to trivialize it, by definition necessary is not trivial.     Oh, by the way, the U.S. is not the only country that has a military.

Exactly the point, Frank. To hear some tell it all US actions are noble, honorable and professional and all US military personnel heroes while the only human being to have actually died in this regrettable incident is a "hotdog" who deserved to die. Now that’s jingoism. … Yes, this is an international forum, maybe over the years, you will expand your narrow views to match it.  Now thats chest thumping.     I may not change your mind, but I can try to change your perspective.

Thump away, my friend, but I think my perspective is just fine and the chances of you changing it are nil. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Ken Fortenberry writes: To hear some tell it all US actions are noble, honorable and professional and all US military personnel heroes while the only human being to have actually died in this regrettable incident is a "hotdog" who deserved to die. Now that’s jingoism.

If you saw film of previous flights by Chicoms harassing *legal* flights, you would ulnderstand why the Chicom died.  He "deserved" to die simply because he was harassing another aircraft in international waters when he should not have.  No jingoism or chauvinism involved.  Poor judgement, poor driving skills, lack of common sense, and unnecessary aggression caused his death, and damn near cause the death of *our* aircremen.   As far as this not belonging on roff:  well, it seems like you and only you get to pick roffs contents?  Like "native American" crap and "squaw" crap and other politically correct crap.  As long as the religious and patriotic intolerant Fortenberry says so, it must be so!  Bullshit!  See my hat.  And, MY brother was in the marines too.  What does *that* have to do with anything? Dave

Response:

Ken Whats the fucking big deal? They are American Navy people. They were being held by a foreign power. They got to survive and come home. The West Sound is very Navy. People here care a lot about these things. So they threw a big Welcome home party. The Pacific is a big Ocean – 6 hours from the HI, so when they were 40 minutes out I posted that. Now maybe the desire to celebrate this small victory locally is partly to counter the many recent unfortunate happenings in WA like the Earthquake, the loss of a large fishing crew in the Bering sea last week, Boeing, etc etc. But I think people were genuine in their appreciation for these young people. As for the politics of it – you know that my politics are relatively progressive for this forum. No one would ever mistake me for a conservative. But you also know that I save my strongest disdain for ideology and ideologues right and left. And all know that I loath Bush, still support McCain, think Rumsfeld is dangerous, and am thankful that Powell is there to moderate things, and because of his caution borne of his combat experience. You feeling anti-war? Got anything to say about the Israeli Army abuse of Arab civilians? How about dual citizenship "Americans" called up as IDF reservists for a few weeks of fun in Gaza? Feel like a crusade? I understand there is a boatload of child slaves missing off Benin. Or maybe a little looksee at the status of foreign household domestics in Chambama might be needed. Teaching reading in the inner city? You do not know that probably the largest inner city volunteer tutoring programs are operated by the military. Most ships have such programs. The military is also far ahead of the rest of the country on affirmative action, family involvement and responsibility in the schools, family leave and support, universal medical coverage, equal opportunity, environmental stewardship and a few others. Like my rightwing nemesis, you assume too much. My point being that pissing on a Welcome Home party for some GIs in WA, doesn’t fulfill the monthly dues assignment for even our most peripatetic Naderite. Lighten up. You get the last word if you want it. Dave

Response:

Ken, Is your life a piece of shit? I don’t believe it is. Do you? I believe you are a precious and utterly unique thing, and so am I, along with everybody else. Bottom line: My personal understanding is that people died so I could sit here at this keyboard and type whatever I want. I am grateful for those who have died, and to those who put themselves at risk for this country. I’m happy to see these kids come home and proud of the way they handled their situation. If that’s chest thumping, I’m going to thump my chest every chance I get. You can call it unseemly, call it any fucking thing you want. But ingratitude is worse than unseemly, it’s dishonorable. LR

Response:

…  He "deserved" to die simply because he was harassing another aircraft in international waters when he should not have.

He was no doubt under orders to harass the spy plane just as an American "hotdog" would be under orders to harass a Chinese spy plane in international waters off the coast of California. I doubt you’d be so cavalier about the death of an American aviator. As far as this not belonging on roff:  well, it seems like you and only you get to pick roffs contents?  

I don’t pick contents, but if I see something that makes this place an uncomfortable place for me or for others who want to discuss flyfishing I’ll either ignore it or bitch about it as I see fit. I suggest you do the same. … And, MY brother was in the marines too.  What does *that* have to do with anything?

Only that I’m not totally unsympathetic to career military. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Ken Whats the fucking big deal? They are American Navy people. …

No big deal, I’m just tired of all the hoop-de-la and the bloodlust was just starting to taper off on ROFF when you had to go and bring the damn thing up again. And believe it or not, not every flyfisherman in the world gives a flying fuck about the American Navy. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

… But ingratitude is worse than unseemly, it’s dishonorable.

Worship the military if that’s your wont, but calling folks dishonorable is no way find a fishing partner. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Take it any way you want. I didn’t call you dishonorable, but your behavior is. Enough dishonorable behavior and I may eventually judge you as dishonorable, but it’ll take a long time for me to feel that way about you. Since I took you to task publicly, I apologize in public for doing so. I should have emailed you.

Response:

… Since I took you to task publicly, I apologize in public for doing so. I should have emailed you.

No problem, Lennie. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ken,    According to Websters, a jingo is a person who boasts of his patriotism and favors an aggressive, threatening, warlike foreign policy.  You are totally missing the point.  This is a welcome home for a group of Americans that was held captive after making an emergency landing at a foreign airfield.  Would we have accepted this kind of treatment if this had been an airliner full of civilians, held by a foreign power after such an emergency landing?  Because they are military, should we not welcome them home?    It is not "jingoistic" to feel proud of a group of people who have been through a difficult ordeal, handled it with professionalism and returned home with honor.  Their job?  Ensuring that we are not suprised by an unforseen hostile act.  If we can find out about what is going on, then mayhaps we can PREVENT an aggressive, threatening, warlike foreign policy.    Neither is it jingoistic to be saddened by the deaths of American and Vietnamese service men in Vietnam, years after the end of the war.  Their job?  Bringing closure to the families who lost love ones in that war.    I’ve watched both of these incidents unfold over the last few days. They hit home.  I was an Air Force linguist and intelligence analyst. These are some of the brightest and hardest working folks in the military.  Their IQs average in the top 10 percent.  It takes over 1 1/2 years in school, 8 hours a day with six hours of homework to even sit in the seat.  Then there is another year and a half of qualification on-the-job.  The washout rate is as high as 60%.    It is a very tight knit community. They are called "purple suiters" (the color of blue, green, and black uniforms combined) as they are the most "joint" job in the military. The mix of this crew is indicative of this "jointness."  They do their wartime job day in and out with life and death decisions in their hands.  99% boredom, 1% stark raving terror.  For this they make about $20,000 a year.    I was at the Defense Language Institute at the same time as one of those guys on the MI-8.  One of my coworkers was his roommate.  We are heartened and glad that the EP-3 incident did not end in the same way.  We are relieved that they’ve returned home.  We are welcoming them home as a nation, as you would welcome an old friend into your home for Thanksgiving.    Ken, Dave was not expressing "jingoistic melodrama."  He, like many of us, were expressing a collective sigh of relief, that these men and women returned home to the ruffles and flourishes of the National Anthem and not the saddening strains of Taps.         Frank Reid, MSgt, USAF (Ret)

Well said Frank, I think only those of us who have known the military as "family" for a goodly portion of our lives can really appreciate what the Whidbey Island folks felt today, it is a special bond that is still with me 31 yrs after retirement from the USAF.  I also believe that *most* Americans celebrate with us. Frank Church, TSgt, USAF (Ret)

Response:

Ken,     According to Websters, a jingo is a person who boasts of his patriotism and favors an aggressive, threatening, warlike foreign policy.  You are totally missing the point.  This is a welcome home for a group of Americans that was held captive after making an emergency landing at a foreign airfield.  Would we have accepted this kind of treatment if this had been an airliner full of civilians, held by a foreign power after such an emergency landing?  Because they are military, should we not welcome them home?     It is not "jingoistic" to feel proud of a group of people who have been through a difficult ordeal, handled it with professionalism and returned home with honor.  Their job?  Ensuring that we are not suprised by an unforseen hostile act.  If we can find out about what is going on, then mayhaps we can PREVENT an aggressive, threatening, warlike foreign policy.     Neither is it jingoistic to be saddened by the deaths of American and Vietnamese service men in Vietnam, years after the end of the war.  Their job?  Bringing closure to the families who lost love ones in that war.     I’ve watched both of these incidents unfold over the last few days. They hit home.  I was an Air Force linguist and intelligence analyst.  These are some of the brightest and hardest working folks in the military.  Their IQs average in the top 10 percent.  It takes over 1 1/2 years in school, 8 hours a day with six hours of homework to even sit in the seat.  Then there is another year and a half of qualification on-the-job.  The washout rate is as high as 60%.     It is a very tight knit community. They are called "purple suiters" (the color of blue, green, and black uniforms combined) as they are the most "joint" job in the military. The mix of this crew is indicative of this "jointness."  They do their wartime job day in and out with life and death decisions in their hands.  99% boredom, 1% stark raving terror.  For this they make about $20,000 a year.     I was at the Defense Language Institute at the same time as one of those guys on the MI-8.  One of my coworkers was his roommate.  We are heartened and glad that the EP-3 incident did not end in the same way.  We are relieved that they’ve returned home.  We are welcoming them home as a nation, as you would welcome an old friend into your home for Thanksgiving.     Ken, Dave was not expressing "jingoistic melodrama."  He, like many of us, were expressing a collective sigh of relief, that these men and women returned home to the ruffles and flourishes of the National Anthem and not the saddening strains of Taps.          Frank Reid, MSgt, USAF (Ret) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They are about 40 minutes from touchdown at Whidby NAS. You’re about the last one I’d expect to entertain ROFF with jingoistic melodrama. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Ken Fortenberry: You’re about the last one I’d expect to entertain ROFF with jingoistic melodrama. After watching the Whidby Naval Air reunion, let me be the first to say, Ken, bleed out your ears *and* eyes.  God Bless America, the U.S. Navy and our brave men and women who enable you to be such an insufferable intolerant little prick.

I can be insufferable without any help whatsoever from the United States Navy, thank you very much. Glad you enjoyed the TV show, Louie, now let’s hip-hip, hup-hup and go kill some Commies for the Gipper. Sheesh, take this crap somewhere where the coarser elements of our society gather to wallow in their ignorance, it has no place on ROFF. — Ken Fortenberry

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They are about 40 minutes from touchdown at Whidby NAS. dave

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They are about 40 minutes from touchdown at Whidby NAS.

You’re about the last one I’d expect to entertain ROFF with jingoistic melodrama. — Ken Fortenberry

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Ken Fortenberry: You’re about the last one I’d expect to entertain ROFF with jingoistic melodrama.

After watching the Whidby Naval Air reunion, let me be the first to say, Ken, bleed out your ears *and* eyes.  God Bless America, the U.S. Navy and our brave men and women who enable you to be such an insufferable intolerant little prick. Dave Dave

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Ken Fortenberry: You’re about the last one I’d expect to entertain ROFF with jingoistic melodrama. After watching the Whidby Naval Air reunion, let me be the first to say, Ken, bleed out your ears *and* eyes.  God Bless America, the U.S. Navy and our brave men and women who enable you to be such an insufferable intolerant little prick. Dave

AMEN! — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno 406-626-4022

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Question:

Hello All: I just wanted to let you know that I’ve been lurking thru all the posts for the last couple of months and you guys have some great info.  Thank you!  I’m relatively new to flyfishing and recently took guided "on river" lessons on the Deschutes (handy because I live in Portland).  Wow!  Great experience.  With the guides, it was like a fast forward course in nymphing.  A great start.  I’m now looking to upgrade my gear, and am looking at a Sage 590 DS2 or a St Croix Legend or Imperial.  Also looking to pick up a pair of Orvis Clearwater Breathables (I like the 4 year warranty).  Anyhow, I just wanted to let everyone know I appreciate your posts, and maybe as I get some more experience, I can add to the board.   Scott

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I’ve been lurking thru all the posts for the last couple of months

Congratulations on coming out of the shadows!  You have taken a big step and are now eligible to be Fortenberry fodder! Keep at the learning (it actually never stops).  At least you are into the fun part now.   Good luck and keep us posted. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

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Anyhow, I just wanted to let everyone know I appreciate your posts, and maybe as I get some more experience, I can add to the board. Scott

Welcome to the group.  It’s always nice to see a new nickname.  BTW, there’s no need to wait until you have experience to start adding to the board.  Most ROFFians aren’t the type to refrain from giving advice just because they don’t know what they’re talking about. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

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Welcome Scott from another ROFF newcomer.  I still consider myself a flyfishing beginner and as such I find a lot of the info here invaluable.  I’ve never taken a guided flyfishing trip but I would like to try one soon (maybe Spring 2001). I’m sure you’ve already seen this here a hundred times but….be sure to cast any rod before you buy.  Some shops will let you take them out on the stream and fish them for a few days without having to commit. One thing that has been a great source for me is an annual Flyfishing and Outdoors show held in my state (usually in January).  Every manufacturer you can dream of attends with their full line of gear in tow.  They will gladly rig up any rod/reel combo you like for a test drive on the indoor casting pool.  If they have anything like that near you I highly recommend attending even if it means a days drive and a stay over at a local hotel…it’s that good. Next spring I’ll be in need of new waders too…the Orvis Breathables are appealing.  Keep us posted on the gear front. Regards and tight lines! Natty

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All: I just wanted to let you know that I’ve been lurking thru all the posts for the last couple of months and you guys have some great info.  Thank you! I’m relatively new to flyfishing and recently took guided "on river" lessons on the Deschutes (handy because I live in Portland).  Wow!  Great experience.  With the guides, it was like a fast forward course in nymphing.  A great start.  I’m now looking to upgrade my gear, and am looking at a Sage 590 DS2 or a St Croix Legend or Imperial.  Also looking to pick up a pair of Orvis Clearwater Breathables (I like the 4 year warranty).  Anyhow, I just wanted to let everyone know I appreciate your posts, and maybe as I get some more experience, I can add to the board. Scott

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Jeezus H. Christ man, are you crazy!  Run far, run fast, before Wolfie and Forty get back. Best of luck and welcome to cyber hell! Opie  **Panhandling for a better tomorrow!**

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All: I just wanted to let you know that I’ve been lurking thru all the posts for the last couple of months and you guys have some great info.  Thank you!  I’m relatively new to flyfishing and recently took guided "on river" lessons on the Deschutes (handy because I live in Portland).  Wow!  Great experience. With the guides, it was like a fast forward course in nymphing.  A great start. I’m now looking to upgrade my gear, and am looking at a Sage 590 DS2 or a St Croix Legend or Imperial.  Also looking to pick up a pair of Orvis Clearwater Breathables (I like the 4 year warranty).  Anyhow, I just wanted to let everyone know I appreciate your posts, and maybe as I get some more experience, I can add to the board. Scott

Response:

Hello All: I just wanted to let you know that I’ve been lurking thru all the posts for the last couple of months and you guys have some great info.  Thank you!  I’m relatively new to flyfishing and recently took guided "on river" lessons on the Deschutes (handy because I live in Portland).  Wow!  Great experience.  

Lucky bastard. With the guides, it was like a fast forward course in nymphing.  A great start.  I’m now looking to upgrade my gear, and am looking at a Sage 590 DS2 or a St Croix Legend or Imperial.  

Don’t know the St. Croix rods. I’ve got a DS2 5wt, and love it. There is a membership fee, though…was Wolfgang managing that? Vegetables aren’t food. Vegetables are what the food eats.

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Question:

For four months in the mid seventies I lived in a tool shed and ate mostly what I could forage from the surrounding woods and fields.  

When I was a kid my brother and I had to hike 10 miles to school each way. It was tough in the winter. A hungry pack of wolves would follow us, and we had to watch out for those wild Indians with their bows and arrows. At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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I don’t suppose it depends upon the scales? — Mr.Gink "the saga continues"   http://www.gink.com/rod_facts/bastardjul00.html

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When I was a kid my brother and I had to hike 10 miles to school each way. It was tough in the winter. A hungry pack of wolves would follow us, and we had to watch out for those wild Indians with their bows and arrows. At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian.

City boy<g. Why when I was in school… — Charlie…

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At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian.

Show ‘em Evian spelled backwards…and then make ‘em pay it themselves…<G. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian. Show ‘em Evian spelled backwards…and then make ‘em pay it themselves…<G.

Really. One time I filled an Evian bottle with tap water and put it back in the refrigerator. My wife and kids never noticed the difference, but man were they pissed. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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So, how would one go about actually helping someone directly who is actually hungry or poor when one doesn’t know any such people?

Not sure whether you are really asking how to help them or how to find them.  In either case I can only answer…..huh?

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So, how would one go about actually helping someone directly who is actually hungry or poor when one doesn’t know any such people? Not sure whether you are really asking how to help them or how to find them.  In either case I can only answer…..huh?

Think of some of the things we’ve been talking about.  Scam artists who pose as poor, out of luck people.  Poor people who will not take charity.  Basically I’m someone who’s decided not to give money to charitable organizations (through a third party).  (I’ve done *work* for charitable organizations.) But, I’d happily buy a meal or give a gift to a poor family if I could find people who are actually poor and would accept something without finding me condascending.  This has happened to me, but the more I think about it, not often enough.  How do you find a person truly in need, and how would you actually approach them? Regards, Jeff

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When I was a kid my brother and I had to hike 10 miles to school each way.

You had schools???  We used to sleep in a shoe box, and had to get up a half hour before we went to bed.  For breakfast we got a lump of cold poison. At least, that’s what I tell my kids, who won’t drink any water but Evian.

And you know what that spells backward….  :-) Regards, Jeff

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Think of some of the things we’ve been talking about.  Scam artists who pose as poor, out of luck people.  

Giving money to panhandlers is the equivalent of feeding the bears at Yellowstone Park. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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If somebody only had a good drink, and in some poor way managed to forget his problems for a while ( not a solution I would generally recommend however), then it was worth the money. Perhaps it did him more good than a meal. Who knows?

Maybe so.  But I would still gladly buy a poor person a meal but not give money to some guy who profits from the transaction.  And I would rather buy someone a meal than give them the money.  It just pisses me off when I get scammed.  Just 2 weeks ago a guy in the parking lot of a supermarket told me his car broke down and he had to get his wife and daughter back home on the bus that night, so could he have enough money to pay for the 3 tickets.  As I was pondering this, it finally dawned on me that this was the same guy I gave money to almost exactly a year before, with the exact same shpiel (shp?) So, how would one go about actually helping someone directly who is actually hungry or poor when one doesn’t know any such people? Regards, Jeff

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<good story snipped Nice story Mike.  Hopefully you will post this one to your website. bc. — Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. -Benjamin Franklin

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"Mike Connor"     In my youth, I was a member of one of those families who "simply had nothing."  I was 5 and I remember this old guy, he must have been 10 or 11 who would come to our back door on a Saturday morning with a sackful of potatoes.   He’d scavanged them from the ground under the conveyor belt at the processing plant.  Some times I was in the back garden as he dropped them off, most times they just appeared.  He took keen interest in what I was doing, whether building a house with twigs or staging a war with my toy soldiers.    You, that kid with the potatoes and millions of other anonymous souls around the world are the ones that allowed many of us to grow up and escape that poverty.  You live day by day and finally, with a little help, things start to improve, opportunities open up and you make the best of them. Those of us who’ve been there cannot truly express our thanks to you in the way it should be given, so we attempt to put something back into those neigborhoods of our youth.     However, when the light shines on one of those giving souls, they are caught, as those fish you caught.  You have now become a proxie for that "old guy" of my youth.  I want to personnally thank you for your effort and caring.  Thank you friend.                                         Frank Reid

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Frank,    I grew up in the 1930’s and my family didn’t  have very much either.  No matter how little you had you could always find someone who had less.  One of my friends lived with his grandmother and I went with him every week to meet the welfare truck to help him carry anything he might be lucky enough to get.  I remember one week he got a crate of oranges.  I skinned my shins against the box as we carried to his home and I wondered how you could live on oranges for a week. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Mike Connor"     In my youth, I was a member of one of those families who "simply had nothing."  I was 5 and I remember this old guy, he must have been 10 or 11 who would come to our back door on a Saturday morning with a sackful of potatoes.   He’d scavanged them from the ground under the conveyor belt at the processing plant.  Some times I was in the back garden as he dropped them off, most times they just appeared.  He took keen interest in what I was doing, whether building a house with twigs or staging a war with my toy soldiers.    You, that kid with the potatoes and millions of other anonymous souls around the world are the ones that allowed many of us to grow up and escape that poverty.  You live day by day and finally, with a little help, things start to improve, opportunities open up and you make the best of them. Those of us who’ve been there cannot truly express our thanks to you in the way it should be given, so we attempt to put something back into those neigborhoods of our youth.     However, when the light shines on one of those giving souls, they are caught, as those fish you caught.  You have now become a proxie for that "old guy" of my youth.  I want to personnally thank you for your effort and caring.  Thank you friend.                                         Frank Reid

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Surprisingly enough Ernie, you can live for a week or even considerably longer, on more or less nothing. Problems arise when this continues for long periods, and one is forced to eat stuff that one would not normally touch. I remember all too well the first time my mother brought home a "bucket of scraps" which was all we had in the house for several days.  "Scraps" are the remains of fish, chips, batter etc soaked in lard, which are scraped out of the large frying pans used in fish and chip shops when they are cleaned. A bucket full cost a couple of pennies, and there was often a queue for this stuff.  I only ever ate the stuff a couple of times, but I can taste it still, and even the smell makes me feel ill.  I can not stomach even entering a fish and chip shop to this day, and I remember my wife being very surprised when we visited London once and she wanted to try fish and chips, and I simply could not stay in the queue which had  formed at the counter, as I was in severe danger of throwing up.  This sort of thing plays hell with peoples health as well.  It may not have appeared so in my story, but I was indeed one of the lucky ones, I had the means and the drive to go and catch fish, "find" "wayward" sheep, and even go and dig up "wild" potatoes or vegetables, or collect fruit and stuff in summer,  should this prove necessary. I also collected seacoal and wood, from the beaches, so we always had something to burn in winter, which was much more than many others had, and we never actually got anywhere even close to starving or freezing.  Although some I knew got close to it. Many of the people I knew at that time were sunk so deeply in apathy as a result of their poverty, that they could not help themselves, and even under those conditions, some were far too proud to accept "charity".  What little money they received from various sources, usually social security or similar, was often wasted in vain attempts at momentary escape from their respective plights, or even astoundingly enough,  pathetic attempts at "keeping up the show". Drunkenness was common, and many a wife and child beating took place, when some men lucky enough to have them, came home from their jobs late on a Friday night, after having drunk most of their relatively meagre pay in the local pubs. They were often also poorly educated, reviled by other sections of the community, and generally treated like dirt. Poverty is a deadly disease, it saps ones energy, removes any perspective of improvement for many, releases large amounts of criminal energy, mostly driven by hopelessness, and the feeling that things can get no worse anyway, whatever one does, often induces a positive fear of authority, and inevitably results in an early grave, as it did for both my father and my mother, and many many others I knew at that time. It may also reveal facets of human nature that are not normally obvious, not all of which are negative. A little kindness may cost a man of means virtually nothing, but may go a very long way to helping somebody far less fortunate. The world would be a far better place if some were bound to wonder as you did, how one may live on oranges for a week, and then consider those who did not even have the oranges, and in many places still do not. One of the reasons I so loved angling and anglers, as I still do, was because I met more "gentlemen" of a kind, honest, and helpful nature while doing it, than I have ever met anywhere else, I can not remember any of them being otherwise really, although of course they were all different in their ways.   Fortunately this is still the case as far as most are concerned, and is certainly the case here on ROFF. One of the reasons I enjoy it so much, and why it is worth defending.  This may sound a little overboard to some, but I believe it is so, and I am not ashamed to say so. TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Frank,    I grew up in the 1930’s and my family didn’t  have very much either.  No matter how little you had you could always find someone who had less.  One of my friends lived with his grandmother and I went with him every week to meet the welfare truck to help him carry anything he might be lucky enough to get.  I remember one week he got a crate of oranges.  I skinned my shins against the box as we carried to his home and I wondered how you could live on oranges for a week. Ernie

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Mike,    I can understand why you would dislike fish and chips to this day. I had some at Ramsdens (sp?) in Northern England which were excellent. Ernie "Mike Connor" wrote <snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I remember all too well the first time my mother brought home a "bucket of scraps" which was all we had in the house for several days <snip TL MC

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – One of the reasons I so loved angling and anglers, as I still do, was because I met more "gentlemen" of a kind, honest, and helpful nature while doing it, than I have ever met anywhere else, I can not remember any of them being otherwise really, although of course they were all different in their ways.   Fortunately this is still the case as far as most are concerned, and is certainly the case here on ROFF. One of the reasons I enjoy it so much, and why it is worth defending.  This may sound a little overboard to some, but I believe it is so, and I am not ashamed to say so. TL MC – .

And, indeed, Mike, you honor us all by doing so.  You certainly do not need my encouragement to continue your course, but you have it, nonetheless. Bravo! Tom — Tom Brown Wake Forest, NC

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Perhaps we are just perverse?

At the risk of having Ernie thump me on the head again I will repeat something I posted some time ago on ROFF.   It has been my experience that to most in America being hungry means trying to remember the last time you missed a meal.  In fact, being hungry means trying to remember the last time you HAD a good meal. Who’s perverse?

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An excellent analysis.  One other point occurred to me. Referring to a particular group of society as "the poor", is one of the reasons why people find it easy to avoid any identification with those so afflicted, it is easy to forget that we are talking about people here,  and the word itself is a stigma. As for many politicians, well I think it probably better to refrain from comment, waste of time anyway. Hardly seems worth the trouble criticising people who mainly appear to tell lies, and manipulate others for a living. If somebody only had a good drink, and in some poor way managed to forget his problems for a while ( not a solution I would generally recommend however), then it was worth the money. Perhaps it did him more good than a meal. Who knows? I have not been hungry for a very long time either, but curiously enough, just like you, I remember exactly what it was like. In fact I remember it far more clearly than any of the times I have been ripped off, (also uncountable I fear),  or sat at sumptuous meals in equally sumptuous surroundings. Perhaps we are just perverse? TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

money to someone to buy him a decent meal and see him lying drunk in the – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – gutter a couple of hours later.  Don’t know how many times this has happened or how much it’s cost me but I STILL haven’t been hungry since 1975.

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Cold, the rattling noise was caused by my teeth chattering loudly, as I shivered uncontrollably yet again.  Cheap anoraks and jeans are not really all that efficient at keeping one warm,

        (snip)         simply amazing.  very, very few of us have ever been to that place. wayno

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Well, to paraphrase: Give a boy a fish and he feeds himself, teach him to fish, and he feeds a village… TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Secondly, if you want to know how much a fish is worth, wait until you and your family are hungry, and carry a sackfull on your back to feed them. This will doubtless colour any subsequent ideas you might have on the matter considerably. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

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Thanks for that little dose of reality – a good reminder is a neccesity these days. Peter

So would a speller checker on this newsreader!!! Peter

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When I read both your posts, I couldn’t help thinking of some of the politicians today who consider the poor to be cheats and slackers, not worthy of help.

I think part of the problem is that there *are* a few cheats and slackers, making it difficult to know which are which, even if the cheats are relatively few.  This is especially a problem since the people of means to help the poor are usually don’t live in close enough proximity to be able to figure it out on their own on a day-to-day basis.  I’ve personally been ripped off enough times that now I only volunteer my time and effort, never money.  I wish it were different. Regards, Jeff

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When I read both your posts, I couldn’t help thinking of some of the politicians today who consider the poor to be cheats and slackers, not worthy of help. I think part of the problem is that there *are* a few cheats and slackers, making it difficult to know which are which, even if the cheats are relatively few.  This is especially a problem since the people of means to help the poor are usually don’t live in close enough proximity to be able to figure it out on their own on a day-to-day basis.  I’ve personally been ripped off enough times that now I only volunteer my time and effort, never money.  I wish it were different.

Yes, there are cheats and slackers and no, it’s not part of the problem.  There are cheats and slackers in congress, in corporate offices, in academia, in churches, and in every other segment of society.  No one wants to dismantle any of these and no one thinks seriously about punishing them all for the sins of the few.  I repeat, it’s not part of the problem….it’s a different problem.  You are right about one thing; the people with the greatest means to help the poor generally do not live in close proximity.  Even when they do though, it is generally not the people with the greatest means who do the most to help.  Must be afraid of getting ripped off……might make them late for dinner. For four months in the mid seventies I lived in a tool shed and ate mostly what I could forage from the surrounding woods and fields.  I lost over forty pounds in that time and spent most of my time doing virtually nothing for lack of energy or incentive.  This is not a lament.  Unlike many millions of people around the world (and even here in the richest country in the history of the world) I always had options.  Eventually, I availed myself of an opportunity to get plugged back into the mainstream.  I have never been truly hungry since 1975, but I remember.  I’ve been ripped off lots of times since then….given money to someone to buy him a decent meal and see him lying drunk in the gutter a couple of hours later.  Don’t know how many times this has happened or how much it’s cost me but I STILL haven’t been hungry since 1975.

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[reality snipped] When I read both your posts, I couldn’t help thinking of some of the politicians today who consider the poor to be cheats and slackers, not worthy of help.  Our current premier once remarked that single welfare mothers spend their money on beer.  One of his first acts was to substantially reduce both welfare payouts and eligibilty, putting many people onto the street.  He’s now out to privatise co-op housing – putting more on the street.  I can’t help thinking that a week of subsiting on a bucket of scraps would help his perspective immensely. Thanks for that little dose of reality – a good reminder is a neccesity these days. Peter

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Cold, the rattling noise was caused by my teeth chattering loudly, as I shivered uncontrollably yet again.  Cheap anoraks and jeans are not really all that efficient at keeping one warm, pulling the collar up around my neck once more, I snuggled into the corner of the life-belt storage cupboard, and tried to think warm.  Walking the six miles or so along the clifftops and climbing down to the pier had kept me warm enough, and I had not really noticed how cold it was, but I was noticing now alright! Climbing up the icy steel pier legs in the pre-dawn dark with my gear had even caused me to start sweating, and I was paying for that now too. Cold sweat is very cold indeed.  Frosty clouds formed every time I exhaled, and the freezing spray from the stormy sea had soaked me fairly well through from the other side of my clothing as well. Nobody else was on the pier, quite unusual, as the tides were quite propitious, and the recent storms would almost certainly have brought some cod or whiting, and perhaps a few other fish closer in.  Leaving my temporary shelter, I moved out into the full force of the wind and spray, and surveyed the scene, dark clouds, swirling angry seas, and a long procession of heavy breakers crashing against the pier, causing it to  sway ominously under my feet.  Occasional banks of freezing fog rolled rapidly landwards, driven by a capricious but powerful wind, with clear patches now and again, allowing one odd glimpses of the land, and the cliff head, often covering the pier slipway, obliterating it, and making it seem as if one was standing on a tower with no land connection. Although dawn had broken, the weather was such that this was by no means apparent, it was still fairly dark, and it took me half an age to get my "storm-lantern",which consisted of a candle in a milk bottle with holes drilled around the bottom,  going, so that I had enough light to assemble my gear. This piece of equipment also did sterling service as a hand warmer. High tide was not for another two hours, but with freezing fingers occasionally warmed on the milk bottle, I painfully started to assemble my gear anyway.  Seven feet of solid fibreglass rod, an ancient wooden "Scarborough" centrepin reel with a hundred yards of forty pound line, an eight ounce lead, and a trace on which was mounted a set of three of my latest "secret weapons". Most of the blokes I met on the pier and elsewhere invariably laughed when seeing this for the first time, some kindly souls even offering me bait and other stuff, which however I always declined.  After a while, quite a few got to know me, as I literally haunted some venues when the fish were there, and was treated like a "regular", although even at that tender age I was considered eccentric, I was twelve at the time.  Not everybody knew my name, and many referred to me as "that fly-tying lad", not unkindly, but in that certain way that suggested I had at least a couple of screws loose.  Nobody actually tapped their foreheads, at least not in my presence, but I often got the feeling that they were about to. Fly-fishing at that time was something which the "gentry" did, and they did not do it in Winter in the North Sea. Standard procedure for serious sea anglers at the time was a multiplying reel, thirty to forty pound line, a minimum four ounce lead, and large baits, usually  consisting of lugworm, ragworm, peeler crab, herring strips, mussels, or various combinations of these. One or two hook rigs were used, these were cast out, the rod was put in a stand, or leaned against the pier railings etc, and a bite was awaited. Some clipped small bells on their rod tips and went to sleep while awaiting such a serendipitous event, others wandered around talking to their mates, smoking and drinking tea, or other "fortifying" beverages, often requiring them to make mad dashes down the length of the pier when their bells rung, and their rods threatened to go over the side. More well to do anglers, had "radium" lights, which were filled with luminescent radioactive gas, cost a veritable fortune, and were screwed or clipped to the rod tip. Occasionally some unfortunate would bugger up a cast, or forget to remove his clip light from his rod before casting, and the light sailed off into the distance, often accompanied by a cracking sound as the terminal tackle followed it on its way to the watery depths, which in turn was accompanied by a steady stream of inventive and colourful profanity, often to the amusement and elucidation of all present, especially some of the younger lads, who presumably laboured for some considerable time under the misapprehension that "fucking" and similar equally unprintable epithets had something to do with radioactive tip-lights. Someone chucking a bell away was not nearly as enlightening for bystanders, and elicited rather less interest. Some inevitably became curious about my gear, especially if I had caught a bagfull on my "hairy fancies" as one gentleman once described my flies. My intention at that time when fishing, was invariably to catch a bagfull, and that in the cheapest and most efficient way possible. My family, and not a small number of my neighbours, depended on it for a decent dinner.  Having had some success with flies in freshwater, I had turned my attentions to the North Sea, as the fish were usually bigger, and there were a lot more of them. Bait was difficult to acquire, and was far too expensive to buy, so I had resolved to try "fly-fishing" there as well. This particular set of "hairy fancies" were made up of 3/0 Mustad stainless steel "beak" hooks, wrapped with silver tinsel, and sporting "wings" of various coloured bucktail.  My technique was quite simple, albeit somewhat strenuous. With a  two or three step "run-up", a whirl very similar to that performed by a hammer thrower,  and a mighty twisting overhead heave, usually instilling considerable fear and amazement in the hearts and minds of any innocent bystanders, especially those who used "normal" gear, even in those who had seen it before, putting an awe inspiring bend into the old solid glass rod, the heavy wooden centrepin was forced into revolving at a speed for which it was never designed, producing thereby the most amazing noises, faintly reminiscent of a defective differential gear, or a rusty dungeon door being swung at high speed. This despite regular applications of fat to the "bearing", the while being braked by the thumb of my right hand to prevent the otherwise inevitable and horrendous "birds nest",  and the "flies" hurtled out, carried by the eight ounce lead, to land with an almighty splash, which could be heard even in the worst of storms and gales, as it was rarely more than about forty yards away when it struck the water. Which circumstance however had the pleasant side-effect of always assuring me plenty of room, even when the pier was crowded. My "flies" were then retrieved at various speeds and in various modes, until I caught a fish.  This happy event occurred surprisingly often, much to the chagrin of those who had previously laughed, and who notwithstanding their veritable armouries of wonderful and often expensive equipment had still not caught anything. Fortunately nobody was frightened half to death on this occasion, as there was nobody there. Having assembled my gear, I essayed my first cast of the day. This cast was always of the utmost importance, and had to be executed with considerable care, in fact the first few casts had to be done in such a way, as otherwise a jam up was quite likely, and the loss of expensive terminal gear inevitable. A careful and relatively modest thirty yard cast was the order of the day. Having accomplished this, I took up the slack, and placing the line over my right index finger, the butt of my rod tucked under my elbow, and my left hand supporting it by holding the rim of the reel, I started a jigging retrieve. Thump! and thump! again, heaving back on the rod I struck, and proceeded to haul in a couple of lively fish, beautiful whiting well over a pound each. These were hauled straight up the thirty foot drop by winding in, despatched, unhooked, and the next cast was prepared. In all the now well over forty years I have been fishing, I have never had a session like I had that day, and I will never do so again, as nowadays I would cease to fish after getting a few good ones.  The fish were there, a large shoal of hungry whiting and they were biting like crazy, I was hauling up two or three fish every cast, some really nice sized ones as well, but all were at least sizeable. Even in those days I was an optimist, and I had brought two large sacks with me and a polythene bag, which was actually designed to be used as a makeshift raincoat should the weather be really nasty.  I filled both sacks and the bag, and continued to fish like a lunatic, the pile of fish on the pier behind me continued to grow apace, but still I carried on, as if in a trance. Several people had now come on to the pier which had opened in the meantime, and stood watching, some started fishing, but I was oblivious to everything, and continued almost mechanically hauling up fish after fish. . Some time after mid-day I came to my senses, and viewed the carnage all around me.  I reeled in my gear and started gutting and filleting fish, several people asked if they might have a fish, and I told them to help themselves.  For several hours I filleted fish like a madman, emptying the sacks and the bag again on to the boards, and filleting those too,and even after filleting everything, and throwing all the guts and even the heads away as well, something I would not usually have done, as they made excellent soup, I still had two large sacks full of solid fish fillets, which I could only just lift. It took me almost seven hours to get home, and was well after dark  long before I got there. Carrying one sack a few hundred yards along the beach, dumping it, … read more »

Response:

Question:

btw, here in nc, we call it the sidearm, m*****f*****g rhodo cast.

hee hee hee.  OK honest show of hands, who’s finally ripped off a rhodo branch that was getting in their way?? Regards, Jeff

Response:

Guilty! Cut it off, walk away and hope it doesn’t grow back before you return.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – btw, here in nc, we call it the sidearm, m*****f*****g rhodo cast. hee hee hee.  OK honest show of hands, who’s finally ripped off a rhodo branch that was getting in their way?? Regards, Jeff

Response:

Yea, I do that all the time.. it’s, uhh, on purpose, yea that’s it.. It’s amazing how well this works.. if I only had the ability to do this at will. My errant cast strung like a close line along the willows. I tried flipping the line off the willows and in the process, the fly dropped into the lie, the fish took, jumped the log and brok

– -Mark  –  Particle Salad/ Noom Room Studio  http://home.earthlink.net/~psalad  mp3 songs:  http://www.mp3.com/particlesalad

Response:

Some times we have to let the fish win — NOT!  Next time out, try a well weighted Dupont spinner.  Works every time.                     Frank Reid P.S. For those unfamiliar with the vernacular, a Dupont spinner is so-named because the pricipal manufacturer is the Dupont explosives division.  One can normally be obtained from "Crazy Lefty," the guy that works in the explosives bunker at your neighborhood rock quary for a small price. Warning:  an overuse of false casting while using one may be hazardous to your health. sportsmanship snipped – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The fish is still there, I still try for it, but I think that’s the closest I’m going to get.

Response:

I first noticed it out of the corner of my eye, a dimple under some overhanging willows. <good story snipped

Ah, the old willow cast.   Thanks for a good one. Joe F.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I first noticed it out of the corner of my eye, a dimple under some overhanging willows. Looking closer, I saw the steady, patterned rise of a fish.  I moved into position down and across from the fish and surveyed the situation. The fish was feeding in some very shallow water and was protected by dense willows above and a log protruding from the bank just upstream from his lie. I thought that maybe a side arm cast would keep the fly low enough to clear the willows and somehow land in the small slow water feeding area behind the log. I cast, snagged the willow, broke off my fly and put down the fish. Each time there were surface feeding fish about, I would find this fish methodically sipping in his hole. For awhile, I tried to come up with something new each time I passed his lie. I tried downstream casts, but the current would either push my fly past the small area where he fed or pile it up and snag the log. During hopper season, I tried skipping a hopper into his lie but caught willows and bark. I tried my crude imitations of pile casts and curve casts but the drift would never bring the fly into his feeding lane. I bushwhacked through the thick willows on the bank where he fed, hoping to try dapping, but long before I got into position, he was put down. When I reached out to extricate the flies I had lost in the willows from my past futile attempts, I was tempted to do some trimming but that didn’t seem too sporting. I had tried everything I could think of to get a fly to this fish. I probably could have somehow swung a streamer or nymph under the log and taken the fish, but it was a consistent, steady surface feeder and I was determined to meet it on these terms. I felt the side arm cast I first tried came the closest to getting the fly where it needed to be. Each time I passed its lie I would give it a shot. I mostly caught willows, but once in a while I would get a cast in where it belonged but the current always grabbed the tippet, dragged the fly and put down the fish. After each failure, I would go upstream to a shallow run to catch a couple easy fish to appease myself. One day, after fishing the run and getting ready to head home, I looked downstream noticed the fish was again rising. I was probably 40 feet away. I have trouble hitting an area the size of a Buick at this distance, much less one the size of a pie pan lying under some willows, but what the hell, one last cast. I hauled my three weight and let a cast go. My errant cast strung like a close line along the willows. I tried flipping the line off the willows and in the process, the fly dropped into the lie, the fish took, jumped the log and broke me off. The fish is still there, I still try for it, but I think that’s the closest I’m going to get. Willi

a nice read…thanks.  btw, here in nc, we call it the sidearm, m*****f*****g rhodo cast. to make it even more challenging, as if the bizarre twists of the branches and leaves aren’t enough, at certain times of the year, the rhodos have a sticky substance at the flower heads of the branches which is stronger than any commercial glue.  put your fly or leader in it and it’s generally easier just to cut the tippet. jeff

Response:

I first noticed it out of the corner of my eye, a dimple under some overhanging willows. Looking closer, I saw the steady, patterned rise of a fish.  I moved into position down and across from the fish and surveyed the situation. The fish was feeding in some very shallow water and was protected by dense willows above and a log protruding from the bank just upstream from his lie. I thought that maybe a side arm cast would keep the fly low enough to clear the willows and somehow land in the small slow water feeding area behind the log. I cast, snagged the willow, broke off my fly and put down the fish. Each time there were surface feeding fish about, I would find this fish methodically sipping in his hole. For awhile, I tried to come up with something new each time I passed his lie. I tried downstream casts, but the current would either push my fly past the small area where he fed or pile it up and snag the log. During hopper season, I tried skipping a hopper into his lie but caught willows and bark. I tried my crude imitations of pile casts and curve casts but the drift would never bring the fly into his feeding lane. I bushwhacked through the thick willows on the bank where he fed, hoping to try dapping, but long before I got into position, he was put down. When I reached out to extricate the flies I had lost in the willows from my past futile attempts, I was tempted to do some trimming but that didn’t seem too sporting. I had tried everything I could think of to get a fly to this fish. I probably could have somehow swung a streamer or nymph under the log and taken the fish, but it was a consistent, steady surface feeder and I was determined to meet it on these terms. I felt the side arm cast I first tried came the closest to getting the fly where it needed to be. Each time I passed its lie I would give it a shot. I mostly caught willows, but once in a while I would get a cast in where it belonged but the current always grabbed the tippet, dragged the fly and put down the fish. After each failure, I would go upstream to a shallow run to catch a couple easy fish to appease myself. One day, after fishing the run and getting ready to head home, I looked downstream noticed the fish was again rising. I was probably 40 feet away. I have trouble hitting an area the size of a Buick at this distance, much less one the size of a pie pan lying under some willows, but what the hell, one last cast. I hauled my three weight and let a cast go. My errant cast strung like a close line along the willows. I tried flipping the line off the willows and in the process, the fly dropped into the lie, the fish took, jumped the log and broke me off. The fish is still there, I still try for it, but I think that’s the closest I’m going to get. Willi

Response:

Question:

There are a lot of flies we need for the Western Conclave.  I’m trying to tie my own.  I have to buy all sorts of different stuff just to tie a few flies of each pattern. Then an idea came to me.  Why doesn’t each person concentrate on one or two patterns and trade flies with other at the Conclave.  This will ad something to the conclave, because we will be fishing with the flies that our friends tied. I can tie a couple like the Montana Stone.  I tie other flies, but I want to trade my best fly that I can tie.  That’s it.  There are some others that I think are okay. I will tie a dozen Montana Stone for anyone that wants to trade. Here’s the complete list of flies that have been suggested by others here on ROFF and suggested web-sites for the area.  I will not have ever fly represented in my fly box.  There are a lot of them.  However, I would like to have as many as I can.  I know I will buy a lot, but it would be nice to be fishing with a fly the other ROFFians tied.  So here’s the list: Prince Nymphs, size 4-10 Montana Stone, size 6-10 Adams, size 10-20 Moose-Mane Adam, size 8-16 Adams, size 10-20 Grey Wulff, size 8-14 Grizzly Wulff, size 8-14 Royal Wulff, size 8-14 White Wulff, size 6-16 Ausable Wulff, size 6-16 Wolly Buggers, size 2-12 Wolly Worm, size 2-12 Joe’s Hopper, size 6-14 Dave’s Cricket, size 6-12 Muddler Minnows, size 2-14 Leach, size 4-8 Light Hendrickson, size 12-18 Dark Hendrickson, size 12-18 Blue Dun, dry size 12-18 Blue Dun, wet size 10-16 BWO, size 12-20 Light Cahill, size 10-16 Rubber Legs Henry’s Fork Hopper, size 8-12 Jacklin’s Hopper, size 8-12 Parachute Hopper, size 8-14 Henry’s Fork Cricket, size 6-16 Dave’s Hopper, size 4-12 Gold Ribbed Hare’s Ear, size 8-16 Elk Hair Caddis (various body colors) also known as PM Caddis Montana Stone Nymph, size 14-18 Golden Stone, size 12-14 Western Bee, size 12-14 Western Coachman, size 12-14 Dragon Fly Dragon Fly Nymphs Midge Blue Dun, size 16-24 Trudes Green Caddis Emergers Colorado Caddis Nymphs Humpies of various colors, size 12-16 Brown Hackle Peacock, size 12-18 March browns PT Hymphs Stimulators Caddis:         Long Horn Sedge         Microcaddis         Green Sedge         Spotted Sedge (2 Species)         Little Sister Sedge         Black Dancer Stoneflies:         Giant Salmonfly         Golden Stone         Yellow Sally Mayflies:         Pale Morning Dun         Western Green Drake         Brown Drake         Grey Drake         Small Western Drake (flav)         Callibaetis — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are a lot of flies we need for the Western Conclave.  I’m trying to tie my own.  I have to buy all sorts of different stuff just to tie a few flies of each pattern. Then an idea came to me.  Why doesn’t each person concentrate on one or two patterns and trade flies with other at the Conclave.  This will ad something to the conclave, because we will be fishing with the flies that our friends tied. I can tie a couple like the Montana Stone.  I tie other flies, but I want to trade my best fly that I can tie.  That’s it.  There are some others that I think are okay. I will tie a dozen Montana Stone for anyone that wants to trade. Here’s the complete list of flies that have been suggested by others here on ROFF and suggested web-sites for the area.  I will not have ever fly represented in my fly box.  There are a lot of them.  However, I would like to have as many as I can.  I know I will buy a lot, but it would be nice to be fishing with a fly the other ROFFians tied.  So here’s the list: Prince Nymphs, size 4-10 Montana Stone, size 6-10 Adams, size 10-20 Moose-Mane Adam, size 8-16 Adams, size 10-20 Grey Wulff, size 8-14 Grizzly Wulff, size 8-14 Royal Wulff, size 8-14 White Wulff, size 6-16 Ausable Wulff, size 6-16 Wolly Buggers, size 2-12 Wolly Worm, size 2-12 Joe’s Hopper, size 6-14 Dave’s Cricket, size 6-12 Muddler Minnows, size 2-14 Leach, size 4-8 Light Hendrickson, size 12-18 Dark Hendrickson, size 12-18 Blue Dun, dry size 12-18 Blue Dun, wet size 10-16 BWO, size 12-20 Light Cahill, size 10-16 Rubber Legs Henry’s Fork Hopper, size 8-12 Jacklin’s Hopper, size 8-12 Parachute Hopper, size 8-14 Henry’s Fork Cricket, size 6-16 Dave’s Hopper, size 4-12 Gold Ribbed Hare’s Ear, size 8-16 Elk Hair Caddis (various body colors) also known as PM Caddis Montana Stone Nymph, size 14-18 Golden Stone, size 12-14 Western Bee, size 12-14 Western Coachman, size 12-14 Dragon Fly Dragon Fly Nymphs Midge Blue Dun, size 16-24 Trudes Green Caddis Emergers Colorado Caddis Nymphs Humpies of various colors, size 12-16 Brown Hackle Peacock, size 12-18 March browns PT Hymphs Stimulators Caddis:         Long Horn Sedge         Microcaddis         Green Sedge         Spotted Sedge (2 Species)         Little Sister Sedge         Black Dancer Stoneflies:         Giant Salmonfly         Golden Stone         Yellow Sally Mayflies:         Pale Morning Dun         Western Green Drake         Brown Drake         Grey Drake         Small Western Drake (flav)         Callibaetis — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

May I suggest you regard flies at and below #18’s also Vern? — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/  Updates http://www.gink.com/chat Flyfishing Conversations 6:00 PM PST till after midnight.

Response:

Vern Exactly. I carry my tying stuff, and can tie about a dozen fishables an hour sober, about half that after one beer. Buy fancy stuff in the shops and  bum some fishables from me, whatever you like. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Shoot man, just bring what ya got and bum the rest. Not counting the price of the hooks, I doubt if I have a couple of cents in any given fly.

Response:

Thanks. I’m going to bring as many flies as I can, some to trade, and bring extra cash for special flies.  I think I will also bring some of my fly tying stuff.  However, I need to get all my camping and fishing stuff into the car as well as anything else I want to bring. I also have a co-worker that wants to come.  I need to get all his camping and fishing stuff into the car.  The car will be very tight inside. I will try to talk my friend into bringing his truck.  There’s only one problem with that, I can’t drive his truck due to it not being altered for little people.  We were going to drive straight through and switch driving responsibilities.  If we take my car, he can always push the seat back but space will be limited. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Vern Exactly. I carry my tying stuff, and can tie about a dozen fishables an hour sober, about half that after one beer. Buy fancy stuff in the shops and  bum some fishables from me, whatever you like. Dave Shoot man, just bring what ya got and bum the rest. Not counting the price of the hooks, I doubt if I have a couple of cents in any given fly.

Before you buy.

Response:

[snipped] BTW, what are some good patterns/sizes for whitefish?

Anything that works for the trout will work for the whitefish…

Response:

Shoot man, just bring what ya got and bum the rest. Not counting the price of the hooks, I doubt if I have a couple of cents in any given fly.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s not just the time but the supplies.  Different types of flies require different types of hair, feathers, etc., etc.  And then it’s the issue of space when camping. —

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s not just the time but the supplies.  Different types of flies require different types of hair, feathers, etc., etc.  And then it’s the issue of space when camping. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Sorry about the blank I just fired off to this thread, wrong button. Vern, Why not set yourself up with a decent tying travel kit and tie what really working when you get there. Thats how I normally travel, and I seldom find myself lacking whatever bug is hot. It may be tough to find the time to tie in Ennis, I’d think the evenings will be filled with "social" activities. Does anybody know if the area waters get a little slow in the midafternoon? Before you buy.

alright to bring your fly tying gear with you.  On site fly tying instructions are free, even though we ordinarily charge legal fee rates of $175 an hour, we can take it out in trade with those N.C. legal beagles? I cannot begin to express the fly tying fun that awaits the serious fly tiers of Roff.  This Western Conclave is just the beginning of a great adventure!   — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/  Updates http://www.gink.com/chat Flyfishing Conversations 6:00 PM PST till after midnight.

Response:

Gee, thanks for the list, Vern. I’m planning to buy a half-dozen of each pattern and size over the counter from Blue Ribbon Flies in West Yellowstone.

Heresey!!!!  Well, if you, make sure that you don’t get princes in size 4-10, more like 10-16. Of course I have never fished with a size 4 prince and may just not know what I am talking about.  Perhaps you out of staters know something that we don’t up here Warren Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are a lot of flies we need for the Western Conclave.  I’m trying to tie my own.  I have to buy all sorts of different stuff just to tie a few flies of each pattern. Then an idea came to me.  Why doesn’t each person concentrate on one or two patterns and trade flies with other at the Conclave.  This will ad something to the conclave, because we will be fishing with the flies that our friends tied. I can tie a couple like the Montana Stone.  I tie other flies, but I want to trade my best fly that I can tie.  That’s it.  There are some others that I think are okay. I will tie a dozen Montana Stone for anyone that wants to trade. Here’s the complete list of flies that have been suggested by others here on ROFF and suggested web-sites for the area.  I will not have ever fly represented in my fly box.  There are a lot of them.  However, I would like to have as many as I can.  I know I will buy a lot, but it would be nice to be fishing with a fly the other ROFFians tied.  So here’s the list: Prince Nymphs, size 4-10 Montana Stone, size 6-10 Adams, size 10-20 Moose-Mane Adam, size 8-16 Adams, size 10-20 Grey Wulff, size 8-14 Grizzly Wulff, size 8-14 Royal Wulff, size 8-14 White Wulff, size 6-16 Ausable Wulff, size 6-16 Wolly Buggers, size 2-12 Wolly Worm, size 2-12 Joe’s Hopper, size 6-14 Dave’s Cricket, size 6-12 Muddler Minnows, size 2-14 Leach, size 4-8 Light Hendrickson, size 12-18 Dark Hendrickson, size 12-18 Blue Dun, dry size 12-18 Blue Dun, wet size 10-16 BWO, size 12-20 Light Cahill, size 10-16 Rubber Legs Henry’s Fork Hopper, size 8-12 Jacklin’s Hopper, size 8-12 Parachute Hopper, size 8-14 Henry’s Fork Cricket, size 6-16 Dave’s Hopper, size 4-12 Gold Ribbed Hare’s Ear, size 8-16 Elk Hair Caddis (various body colors) also known as PM Caddis Montana Stone Nymph, size 14-18 Golden Stone, size 12-14 Western Bee, size 12-14 Western Coachman, size 12-14 Dragon Fly Dragon Fly Nymphs Midge Blue Dun, size 16-24 Trudes Green Caddis Emergers Colorado Caddis Nymphs Humpies of various colors, size 12-16 Brown Hackle Peacock, size 12-18 March browns PT Hymphs Stimulators Caddis: Long Horn Sedge Microcaddis Green Sedge Spotted Sedge (2 Species) Little Sister Sedge Black Dancer Stoneflies: Giant Salmonfly Golden Stone Yellow Sally Mayflies: Pale Morning Dun Western Green Drake Brown Drake Grey Drake Small Western Drake (flav) Callibaetis — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

Sorry about the blank I just fired off to this thread, wrong button. Vern, Why not set yourself up with a decent tying travel kit and tie what really working when you get there. Thats how I normally travel, and I seldom find myself lacking whatever bug is hot. It may be tough to find the time to tie in Ennis, I’d think the evenings will be filled with "social" activities. Does anybody know if the area waters get a little slow in the midafternoon?

Response:

Vern, Why not set yourself up with a decent tying travel kit and tie what really working when you get there.

I know Vern doesn’t drink, but I should point out that if the Western Clave is anything like the Eastern Claves, people will much too busy tying one on to have the time (or the hand-eye coordination) to tie one on. <g –Steve

Response:

It’s not just the time but the supplies.  Different types of flies require different types of hair, feathers, etc., etc.  And then it’s the issue of space when camping. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Sorry about the blank I just fired off to this thread, wrong button. Vern, Why not set yourself up with a decent tying travel kit and tie what really working when you get there. Thats how I normally travel, and I seldom find myself lacking whatever bug is hot. It may be tough to find the time to tie in Ennis, I’d think the evenings will be filled with "social" activities. Does anybody know if the area waters get a little slow in the midafternoon?

Before you buy.

Response:

Vern, Why not set yourself up with a decent tying travel kit and tie what really working when you get there. I know Vern doesn’t drink, but I should point out that if the Western Clave is anything like the Eastern Claves, people will much too busy tying one on to have the time (or the hand-eye coordination) to tie one on. <g –Steve

______-  beans? — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/  Updates http://www.gink.com/chat Flyfishing Conversations 6:00 PM PST till after midnight.

Response:

Vern, Why not set yourself up with a decent tying travel kit and tie what really working when you get there. Thats how I normally travel, and I seldom find myself lacking whatever bug is hot. It may be tough to find the time to tie in Ennis, I’d think the evenings will be filled with "social" activities. Does anybody know if the area waters get a little slow in the midafternoon?

I’ll be bringing a travel kit, but more for fun than necessity. Most of my flies are general-type patterns that work well just about everywhere I’ve fished for trout, and I’ll be bringing plenty of extras. If there is a particular fly that is working especially well once I get there, I’ll just buy ‘em locally, or barter with other roffians; maybe even tie a few if they’re simple enough. BTW, what are some good patterns/sizes for whitefish? — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s the complete list of flies that have been suggested by others here on ROFF and suggested web-sites for the area.  I will not have ever fly represented in my fly box.  There are a lot of them.  However, I would like to have as many as I can.  I know I will buy a lot, but it would be nice to be fishing with a fly the other ROFFians tied.  So here’s the list: Prince Nymphs, size 4-10 Montana Stone, size 6-10 Adams, size 10-20 Moose-Mane Adam, size 8-16 Adams, size 10-20 Grey Wulff, size 8-14 Grizzly Wulff, size 8-14 Royal Wulff, size 8-14 White Wulff, size 6-16 Ausable Wulff, size 6-16 Wolly Buggers, size 2-12 Wolly Worm, size 2-12 Joe’s Hopper, size 6-14 Dave’s Cricket, size 6-12 Muddler Minnows, size 2-14 Leach, size 4-8 Light Hendrickson, size 12-18 Dark Hendrickson, size 12-18 Blue Dun, dry size 12-18 Blue Dun, wet size 10-16 BWO, size 12-20 Light Cahill, size 10-16 Rubber Legs Henry’s Fork Hopper, size 8-12 Jacklin’s Hopper, size 8-12 Parachute Hopper, size 8-14 Henry’s Fork Cricket, size 6-16 Dave’s Hopper, size 4-12 Gold Ribbed Hare’s Ear, size 8-16 Elk Hair Caddis (various body colors) also known as PM Caddis Montana Stone Nymph, size 14-18 Golden Stone, size 12-14 Western Bee, size 12-14 Western Coachman, size 12-14 Dragon Fly Dragon Fly Nymphs Midge Blue Dun, size 16-24 Trudes Green Caddis Emergers Colorado Caddis Nymphs Humpies of various colors, size 12-16 Brown Hackle Peacock, size 12-18 March browns PT Hymphs Stimulators Caddis:         Long Horn Sedge         Microcaddis         Green Sedge         Spotted Sedge (2 Species)         Little Sister Sedge         Black Dancer Stoneflies:         Giant Salmonfly         Golden Stone         Yellow Sally Mayflies:         Pale Morning Dun         Western Green Drake         Brown Drake         Grey Drake         Small Western Drake (flav)         Callibaetis

Gee, thanks for the list, Vern. I’m planning to buy a half-dozen of each pattern and size over the counter from Blue Ribbon Flies in West Yellowstone. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Question:

NEED HELP WITH POWERED PARACHUTES January 22,1997 Hi Folks,         My wife and I need all the help we can get–ideas?-advise-tips, etc. We are planning an environmental expedition into some uncharted jungles of Central America.  After four expeditions over the last nine years of trying to reach this particular area on foot we are seriously considering the use of back pack powered parachutes.         First, perhaps a little of our background would be helpful.  We are forty and fiftyish and in reasonable shape. We are both professionals-my wife is an Arthur and amateur photographer and one the best bushpersons I have ever met. She grew up on a farm where her father taught her hunting, fishing, and trapping. I am not big into guns but I’ve seen her shoot a six inch pattern at thirty yards (with a 44 magnum revolver!)  I have degrees in education, English, and Industrial Technology.  I am a licensed pilot (SEL) and have flown a paraplane trike. Spelunking is a hobby and I worked as a commercial diver a few years back(definitely a youngmans job).  I’ve worked in Mexico, the Caribbean, and we lived full time in Central America for a couple of years recently. (Stayed as long as the money and the luck held out).  We are back here in the States, in suburbia, working our tails off try to save or raise the money to get back South of the border and back to our work.  We have a non-profit tax exempt scientific and educational corporation and our Federal   tax exempt status for those that donate to the cause(we can furnish the 501 forms for tax purposes). Staying as independent as possible we have financed most of our expeditions out of our own pockets. So, who are we and what do we do?  Even though the term is about a hundred years out of date, perhaps the US Ambassador was the closest when he introduced at a banquet as Explorers.  Believe it or not there are still a few places left on this Earth that are still uncharted and unexplored.           Now a little about our work.  The area that we have tried (unsuccessfully) to reach overland has only been mapped from the air and some of those photographs were taken by Charles Lindberg in the thirties! So the Topo maps that do exist are notoriously wrong.  While cutting our way into this area we have in the past taken GPS readings, and collected samples of unusual plant life. (There is one vine that when boiled tastes just like coffee and another that if beaten into a pulp and put into relatively still waters will stun the fish enough to bring them to the surface and then when you gotten what you need you pull the vine out and stir the waters and the other fish revive).  Any archaeological ruins that we come across we get coordinates (GPS) sometimes do preliminary surveys and report to the authorities when we come out.  We don’t dig or loot.  Our next expedition is planned for the dry season in 1998 (February through April).  We will establish a base camp accessible by road and fly out of it.  We are currently working on a drag net that can be deployed and opened in the air and then retrieved while still in the air.  We will use this for the collection of insects above the canopy and up the river and stream valleys where we can.  If the back pack powered chutes work as I hope they will we should be able to land and take off from sand bars, clearings etc.  I’ve flown the valleys in a Cessna and am well aware of the variable winds, especially ridge drafts.  After almost being inverted twice I got back to altitude (prayerfully at that).  However, mornings and evenings are often calm-so if you don’t get stupid you might get away with it.         Now for the real reason for this E-mail.  Many questions??  We are considering building our first unit to train on here in the States as we don’t have the finances for a new or used unit at this time.  Has anyone had any experience with a company called "Easy Up".  They offer plans and recommend sources for new and used equipment.  I have also heard that there were tandem units on the market.  Not that we would fly tandem, but it would add a great measure of safety if a parachute, engine, or pilot were disabled.  What about climbing radius after take off (I’m sure it varies with thrust and chute design). My weight should be at about two hundred and my wives about a hundred and thirty.         What about Corporate sponsorship.  Any ideas on fundraising? There will obviously be a video produced.  Anyone know of anyone that has a unit stored that they would like to take a tax write-off on (or am I dreaming). Or a Patron or person of means who would fund the project-They might get a new bug or plant species named after them-Yeah, I know doesn’t seem like much incentive does it.  We will consider taking a few folks with us, but at this point it would have to be on a voluntary basis with them picking up their own expenses.  Experience and attitude would also be a very important considerations.   Well, thanks for taking the time to read this.  If you can’t help please pass it along to someone who may have suggestions or ideas. Thanks, John

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Trevor, YOu could always try the news group rec.aviation.powerchutes. R. Williams – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – G’day I am looking for information on paramotoring. I can find plenty on paragliding but less or even nil on the powered para. Any info on clubs, competition or buying/selling would be appreciated especially in but not restricted to Australia . I travel to the USA and British Isles regularly with work too so any info from these countries would be welcome cheers Trev Mac —

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I suggest you to read Big Air ’s Accident Reports. There are a few Paramotor accident reports which can be benefitial to you. Regards, Kinsley Wong Big Air Paragliding http://www.web-partners.com/paragliding

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Hi Klaus, here is an other german paramotor pilot. Name here is Oscar and I am located near the city of Ulm. I fly a Fresh Breeze paramotor with Paratech wing…. Any other paramotor pilots from Germany here ??? Best regards, Oscar

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if you come to scotland try phil.

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if you come to scotland try phil.

I like that "Coudbusters" !

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Here’s another: http://www.poweredparaglider.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – G’day I am looking for information on paramotoring. I can find plenty on paragliding but less or even nil on the powered para. Any info on clubs, competition or buying/selling would be appreciated especially in but not restricted to Australia . I travel to the USA and British Isles regularly with work too so any info from these countries would be welcome cheers Trev Mac —

Response:

G’day I am looking for information on paramotoring. I can find plenty on paragliding but less or even nil on the powered para. Any info on clubs, competition or buying/selling would be appreciated especially in but not restricted to Australia . I travel to the USA and British Isles regularly with work too so any info from these countries would be welcome cheers Trev Mac —

Response:

zum Thema "Re: paramotor": anyone here who is paragliding with paramotor ? I flied more than one hundred times powered PG.  When you tried to fly by Powered PG, you should never use high performance PG because it is difficult to take off.  Additionally, the high performance PG is easy to collapse, sometimes recovery of collapsed PG is difficult in the case of powered PG.

I want to use my old parachute for flying with paramotor. I gave it back   to the company for changing to stronger ropes. For normal fly I want to buy a new modern high performance PG. I think that your have much experience in PG.  If not, you should learn how to control PG by PG flyer.  Powered PG is very intresting, but it is danger to fly without basic experience and knowledge about PG.  In Japan, there is one fatal accident in powered PG.  He was a ultralight flyer. Anyway, best way to safety flying is to learn how to control PG by PG (or Powered PG) flyer.

I spent lots of hours flying conventional PG, some hours Ultralight and in   past lots of hours soaring. But it is always a new experience to start flying in spring mfg KMW —   ,–.__,-.__,—-.__,-.__,–.  // Klaus Michael Weinreich

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Try this: http://hometown.aol.com/skybrake/brakeindex.html

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – G’day I am looking for information on paramotoring. I can find plenty on paragliding but less or even nil on the powered para. Any info on clubs, competition or buying/selling would be appreciated especially in but not restricted to Australia . I travel to the USA and British Isles regularly with work too so any info from these countries would be welcome cheers Trev Mac —

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good innit? he’s a very clever man.

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anyone here who is paragliding with paramotor ? I have bought one, second hand, but I still have no experience at all with   flying this funny thing, although I have licence for Ultralight etc. mfg KMW

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Try     rec.aviation.powerchutes R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – G’day I am looking for information on paramotoring. I can find plenty on paragliding but less or even nil on the powered para. Any info on clubs, competition or buying/selling would be appreciated especially in but not restricted to Australia . I travel to the USA and British Isles regularly with work too so any info from these countries would be welcome cheers Trev Mac —

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Question:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit One thing I did find a problem was trying to stay orientated relative to the wind. The tendency was to rotate until I was head on to the wind. I was in a round bucks bag tube. Would a small droque help to keep you side on to the wind.

I use an oval Caddis float tube, and have occasion to run into the wind in the afternoons on the Sierra lakes I frequent.  A couple of years ago I picked up a nylon anchor bag, that comes with several fathoms of 3/8′ nylon rope.  It’s really changed the way I fish lakes. The bag allows me to determine how much weight I need to use depending upon the strength of the wind, but I’ve found that 2-3 fist sized rocks will usually do the job.  Even with rocks, the bag will fit into a pocket on my tube, so I needn’t drag it around as I travel.  If the wind is lighter than anticipated, I drop a rock, and if it picks up, I’m never very far from shore where I can grab another. I’ve attached a one-handed snap-swivel to the rope, and that makes it easy to change the attachment point to different d-rings on the tube, because the attachment point inevitably ends up upwind, although it’s not too difficult to maintain a casting position facing in any direction, once I’m anchored. My fishing buddy, an ex-swabby, says that for any given depth, the anchor line should be increased as the wind increases.  He gave me some sort of naval term for it, which I disremember, but a longer line helps the anchor hold better in heavier winds.  See illustration below. [Image] Many is the time I’ll anchor out in the middle of a lake, and cast upwind.  I’ll let the wind move my fly and I find that this method puts my fly over lots of fish.  When I want to move, I just pull the thing off the bottom, and either kick to a new location, or let the wind take me.  At first I worried that I wouldn’t know when the anchor hit bottom, but I find there’s no mistaking it. Tubing changed the way I fish lakes, and the anchor has changed the way I tube. Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me. http://www.midtown.net/~angler/ Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML

<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITEOne thing I did find a problem was trying to stay orientated relative to <BRthe wind. The tendency was to rotate until I was head on to the wind. I <BRwas in a round bucks bag tube. <PWould a small droque help to keep you side on to the wind.</BLOCKQUOTE I use an oval Caddis float tube, and have occasion to run into the wind in the afternoons on the Sierra lakes I frequent.&nbsp; A couple of years ago I picked up a nylon anchor bag, that comes with several fathoms of 3/8′ nylon rope.&nbsp; It’s really changed the way I fish lakes. <PThe bag allows me to determine how much weight I need to use depending upon the strength of the wind, but I’ve found that 2-3 fist sized rocks will usually do the job.&nbsp; Even with rocks, the bag will fit into a pocket on my tube, so I needn’t drag it around as I travel.&nbsp; If the wind is lighter than anticipated, I drop a rock, and if it picks up, I’m never very far from shore where I can grab another. <PI’ve attached a one-handed snap-swivel to the rope, and that makes it easy to change the attachment point to different d-rings on the tube, because the attachment point inevitably ends up upwind, although it’s not too difficult to maintain a casting position facing in any direction, once I’m anchored. <PMy fishing buddy, an ex-swabby, says that for any given depth, the anchor line should be increased as the wind increases.&nbsp; He gave me some sort of naval term for it, which I disremember, but a longer line helps the anchor hold better in heavier winds.&nbsp; See illustration below. <PMany is the time I’ll anchor out in the middle of a lake, and cast upwind.&nbsp; I’ll let the wind move my fly and I find that this method puts my fly over lots of fish.&nbsp; When I want to move, I just pull the thing off the bottom, and either kick to a new location, or let the wind take me.&nbsp; At first I worried that I wouldn’t know when the anchor hit bottom, but I find there’s no mistaking it. <PTubing changed the way I fish lakes, and the anchor has changed the way I tube. <PAnglerboy <P– <BRTrout fear me, <BRWomen want me. <BR<A HREF="http://www.midtown.net/~angler/"http://www.midtown.net/~angler/</A <BR&nbsp;</HTML Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="C:tempnsmailRA.jpeg" <encoded_portion_removed RRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFAH/2Q==

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Dave I have been float tubeing now for 3 years, Although I don’t profess to being an expert I will gladly share with you my thoughts on the technique. No doubt other float tubers will have there own ideas, Inparticular the anglers that fish running waters. With regards to the techniqe I find that a  most satisfactory method to fish is a slow figure of eight but be careful of the all too common takes on the lift. When float tubeing I normally fish with two flies, Some anglers fish with one some with two it,s really what you feel most comfortable with. But bearing in mind you have not got the same luxury of extendable landing nets. This thought should hopefully help you with your selection of leader length. From what I have witnessed rod lengths again vary from angler to angler from say 9′ to 11′,  Again I’m talking still waters. River anglers may go down to 7′ or 8′, I personally use a 101/2′ rod which I find quite adequate. With referance to casting, As with any type of fly fishing you still have to load the rod. Again this depends on individual skills, Having said that many fish I have found are caught short lineing. Retrieving options are as varied as boat or bank angling, My advise on this would be to use them all. On the matter of loseing your rod whilst unhooking a fish or maybe having a sandwich, beer, ect. Most float tubes have two Velcro straps at the front of the tube to secure your rod. Additional tips. 1) Walk into the water backwards when launching. 2) Wear a bouyancy aid. 3) Tie your flippers to your ankles, (Individually of coarse). 4) Don’t drink too much fluid if you have a weak bladder, This can be most embarrassing but you can always blame it on leeking waders. 5) Observe all the safety guidlines set down by The Health and Safety Executive, Details can be obtained from The British Float Tube Association (See below). The British Float Tube Association Secretary Andre’ Russell 24 Merton Avenue, Syston, Leicester. LE7 2JP. Tel: 0116-260-6924. Hope this helps, Let us know how you get on. Tight lines. Tony Connor : Next week I am going float tubeing for the first time on a still water : and I need help with the answers to a few questions. : : What techniques are recommended. : : How many Flies do I fish, I will be using either an 8foot or 9 foot rod. : : In fact what is the best rod length. : : How long a leader. : : How far do I cast, do use enough line to load the rod from pickup or do : I cast further. : : Do I retieve or use loch style with a hang before a simple up and out : recast. : : How do I stop the rod falling into the water and sinking into the depths : when I change flies or land a fish, do I keep it attached to the tube. : : Any more tips. : : Dave Bolt : UK :

Response:

Dave I have been float tubeing now for 3 years, Although I don’t profess to being an expert I will gladly share with you my thoughts on the technique. No doubt other float tubers will have there own ideas, Inparticular the anglers that fish running waters. With regards to the techniqe I find that a  most satisfactory method to fish is a slow figure of eight but be careful of the all too common takes on the lift. When float tubeing I normally fish with two flies, Some anglers fish with one some with two it,s really what you feel most comfortable with. But bearing in mind you have not got the same luxury of extendable landing nets. This thought should hopefully help you with your selection of leader length. From what I have witnessed rod lengths again vary from angler to angler from say 9′ to 11′,  Again I’m talking still waters. River anglers may go down to 7′ or 8′, I personally use a 101/2′ rod which I find quite adequate. With referance to casting, As with any type of fly fishing you still have to load the rod. Again this depends on individual skills, Having said that many fish I have found are caught short lineing. Retrieving options are as varied as boat or bank angling, My advise on this would be to use them all. On the matter of loseing your rod whilst unhooking a fish or maybe having a sandwich, beer, ect. Most float tubes have two Velcro straps at the front of the tube to secure your rod. Additional tips. 1) Walk into the water backwards when launching. 2) Wear a bouyancy aid. 3) Tie your flippers to your ankles, (Individually of coarse). 4) Don’t drink too much fluid if you have a weak bladder, This can be most embarrassing but you can always blame it on leeking waders. 5) Observe all the safety guidlines set down by The Health and Safety Executive, Details can be obtained from The British Float Tube Association (See below). The British Float Tube Association Secretary Andre’ Russell 24 Merton Avenue, Syston, Leicester. LE7 2JP. Tel: 0116-260-6924. Hope this helps, Let us know how you get on. Tight lines. Tony Connor U.K. Lancashire. : Next week I am going float tubeing for the first time on a still water : and I need help with the answers to a few questions. : : What techniques are recommended. : : How many Flies do I fish, I will be using either an 8foot or 9 foot rod. : : In fact what is the best rod length. : : How long a leader. : : How far do I cast, do use enough line to load the rod from pickup or do : I cast further. : : Do I retieve or use loch style with a hang before a simple up and out : recast. : : How do I stop the rod falling into the water and sinking into the depths : when I change flies or land a fish, do I keep it attached to the tube. : : Any more tips. : : Dave Bolt : UK :

Response:

: One thing I did find a problem was trying to stay orientated relative to : the wind. The tendency was to rotate until I was head on to the wind. I : was in a round bucks bag tube. : I find the wind to be a real pain in the rear, and would be interested : in hearing about any type of anchor used by other belly boaters.  On a big : lake it is hard to maintain a steady position or to determine how fast : your fly is dragging due to the wind. The best way that I have to deal with the wind is to keep at my back. This allows me to slowly kick so that I can maintain postion and steer the tube back into the position I want. It does not take much effrot to do this, and I can stay "put" in any wind that I can cast in. Of course, this is not always possible with some spots that I want to fish. Then, I’ll drift like I would in a canoe and paddle back to drift again. And remember, whitecaps breaking over your casting apron is nature’s way of telling you to knock off the foolishness and head for shore. ;- — Jon Porter

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Sue wants to know, will a big fish tow you round the water. Should we get in some water skiing practice

We have a local lake that the ODF&W (Oregon Dept. of Fish & Wildlife) puts the spawned out hatchery steelhead into each year.  A friend of mine hooked one last spring and spent two hours with it towing him around the lake.  He couldn’t do a thing about it.  And, he ended up taking the fish home for a few meals. — Tight Threads,         Charley Renn         Corvallis, OR

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Next week I am going float tubeing for the first time on a still water and I need help with the answers to a few questions. What techniques are recommended. How many Flies do I fish, I will be using either an 8foot or 9 foot rod. At once? One or more up to as many as you can handle. In fact what is the best rod length. Generally longer is better in a tube as you are so close to the water. How long a leader. for a surface presentation 12 feet is about average for sinking lines 5 or 6 feet is averge . How far do I cast, do use enough line to load the rod from pickup or do I cast further. however far away the fish are. You should be able to get closer to fish and hence cast a shorter line. Do I retieve or use loch style with a hang before a simple up and out recast. How do I stop the rod falling into the water and sinking into the depths when I change flies or land a fish, do I keep it attached to the tube. I stick the reel end of the rod sort of into my lap or between my knees. Many tubes have velcro bits on either side of the stripping apron lay your rod across these and fasten with the velcro before you start fiddling with fly boxes and cutting leaders Any more tips. Take a piss before you go out and take some water (NO BEER!) with you. I’ve had problems with leg cramps brought on by lack of fuids. Dave Bolt UK Ralph H

 I second the idea to take a piss before you enter the water!!! HEHEHE. Looks kinda silly kicking to the shore only to urinate all over your waders because you can’t pull em down fast enogh…

Response:

Next week I am going float tubeing for the first time on a still water and I need help with the answers to a few questions.

Just a couple general pointers. 1. Wear a lfe vest. 2. Scout the area and find a nice flat, firm bottom on which to enter. 3. Make sure you’re familiar with your tube. Think about how you’d get out in a problem. 4. Inflate it properly. Not too much and not too little. 5. Keep it close to shore – real close –  until you’re comfortable, and understand your ability. 6. Pee before you begin. 7. Narrow down your  tackle to the bear minimum. 8. Consider doing it on a small body of water on a calm day. Every spring, after a long winter of no physical activity, I get leg cramps my first time or two out. Keep it slow, stop and rest as soon as a cramp begins. Good luck, John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

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Next week I am going float tubeing for the first time on a still water and I need help with the answers to a few questions. What techniques are recommended. How many Flies do I fish, I will be using either an 8foot or 9 foot rod. In fact what is the best rod length. How long a leader. How far do I cast, do use enough line to load the rod from pickup or do I cast further. Do I retieve or use loch style with a hang before a simple up and out recast. How do I stop the rod falling into the water and sinking into the depths when I change flies or land a fish, do I keep it attached to the tube. Any more tips. Dave Bolt UK

Response:

Next week I am going float tubeing for the first time on a still water and I need help with the answers to a few questions. What techniques are recommended. How many Flies do I fish, I will be using either an 8foot or 9 foot rod.

At once? One or more up to as many as you can handle. In fact what is the best rod length.

Generally longer is better in a tube as you are so close to the water. How long a leader.

for a surface presentation 12 feet is about average for sinking lines 5 or 6 feet is averge . How far do I cast, do use enough line to load the rod from pickup or do I cast further.

however far away the fish are. You should be able to get closer to fish and hence cast a shorter line. Do I retieve or use loch style with a hang before a simple up and out recast. How do I stop the rod falling into the water and sinking into the depths when I change flies or land a fish, do I keep it attached to the tube.

I stick the reel end of the rod sort of into my lap or between my knees. Many tubes have velcro bits on either side of the stripping apron lay your rod across these and fasten with the velcro before you start fiddling with fly boxes and cutting leaders Any more tips.

Take a piss before you go out and take some water (NO BEER!) with you. I’ve had problems with leg cramps brought on by lack of fuids. Dave Bolt UK

Ralph H

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Question:

I am looking for the page that has the audio fishing reel alarm clock. It starts off with a few clicks on the reel and continues until the reel really screams and the associated  voice yells "fish on !! fish on !!" Thanks for any help I may receive Mike

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   Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    I am looking for the page that has the audio fishing reel alarm clock.    It starts off with a few clicks on the reel and continues until the reel    really screams and the associated  voice yells "fish on !! fish on !!"    Thanks for any help I may receive    Mike Sorry about the last one, you will find this one more useful: The Screamin’ Reel Alarm Clock         http://www.los-gatos.ca.us/los_gatos/businesses/upstream/clock.html -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

Response:

I am looking for the page that has the audio fishing reel alarm clock. It starts off with a few clicks on the reel and continues until the reel really screams and the associated  voice yells "fish on !! fish on !!" Thanks for any help I may receive Mike

Hi Mike, There is a brass lamp with a fly reel on it. You turn the handle and it tightens a chain and turns on the lamp. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Question:

I am a member of the( Golden Spread Flyfishers) Amarillo, Texas I am looking for some good examples of information and articles to enclude in our news letter. If you have a copy of a current news letter from your Fly Fishing Club, Please E-Mail a copy or the file. TO:

Response:

Hi Ken, You can also contact the Federation of Fly Fishers at 1-800-618-0808.   They have PC disc available for FFF club newletters.  Call and see what they have. Good Luck Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (request a catalog)

Response:

I am a member of the( Golden Spread Flyfishers) Amarillo, Texas I am looking for some good examples of information and articles to enclude in our news letter.

If you want to produce a newsletter that is popular and always gets read, concentrate on information about the local/regional fishing. The most popular feature in our newsletter is the "Fishing Journal" where members report where they went locally (though they are often understandably vague about exact locations), what they used, what the conditions were, and what they caught (or didn’t catch).  Of course, to do a regular feature like this, it helps to have some members who actually FISH on a regular basis. You’ll probably find that 10% of the club members do 90% of the fishing. Other popular stories people want in their club newsletter: Fly recipes and tying instructions for patterns which are proven producers on local waters.(and how/where to fish them). Any information about local fisheries you can get from your state fish and game managers. Get to know these people and call regularly. First hand accounts by members on "week end" fishing trips to places within a 3-8 hour  drive. Lodging, food, fishing quality, access etc. New items or greatly reduced sale items at the local fly shops. Overlooked local waters for lunch time/evening "quick outings". Local Tackle buy/sell/trade classifieds. In short, go with your strength: local information.  You can’t compete with the slick national mags for general "how to" fishing info, so give your members what they can’t get anywhere else: good, solid information on how to enjoy their sport close to home. Doing a really good job on a newsletter takes a lot of effort, but you will actually enjoy your own fly fishing more using what you learn doing it.

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