Question:

BTY I just read an article about the state of Wisconsin purchasing a 32,000 acre tract of land. Nice purchase by the people of Wisconsin.

I missed that one Willi.  What tract, where?

Response:

don’t have much info. This is from Nature Conservancy magazine:  "The State with support from Nature’s Conservancy purchased 32,00 acres, including significant natural areas properties adjacent to Nature Conservancy preserves, using funds from the Stewardship Fund. The the program for the next 10 years." Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – BTY I just read an article about the state of Wisconsin purchasing a 32,000 acre tract of land. Nice purchase by the people of Wisconsin. I missed that one Willi.  What tract, where?

Response:

Constantly freezing guides and line are not very fun. When the water is extremely cold the fish don’t feed often, won’t move to take a fly and generally fight like an old boot. I have to have cabin fever pretty bad to fish during that kind of weather. In the West (Southwest too) we have spells of nice weather, most years, all through the winter. A couple days of nice weather will generally get a few fish moving during the warmest part of the day. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi, I live out in the Southwest and I have fished in the snow.  I mostly froze my butt off and didn’t catch anything.  You were a lucky dude to get in a few casts and have some fun. I remember fishing one creek in the mountains where I think the water was below freezing or right near freezing.  My fly line and leader was a long icicle. Eric It’s fairly warm but the skies are overcast and snow is falling.  I had about an hour or so free late this afternoon and I went to an area where I’ve been seeing some surface midging trout. Although I’m not too fond of the snow, the fish did seem to like the overcast skies. In areas where I had been finding single feeding fish, there were small pods of fish. Sometimes during overcast days even in the Winter, a very tiny BWO comes off. But none were to be found and the fish were feeding on the midges that they normally do this time of year. I approached the first pod of fish. Even with the low clear water, the overcast skies allowed me to get much closer to the fish than our more normal sunny skies do. At this distance, a good cast was easy as was following the tiny fly with my aging eyesight. The first cast resulted in a Rainbow whose fight put down the rest of that pod of fish. I waded downstream and approached the next pod of fish. Same result, one cast one Rainbow and the rest put down. I again went downstream and found another pod. First cast, no take. Second cast a Brown. I quit with that one. Good day, four casts and three fish! Cloud cover sure helps. Willi

Response:

Willi, I live out in the Southwest and I have fished in the snow.  I mostly froze my butt off and didn’t catch anything.  You were a lucky dude to get in a few casts and have some fun. I remember fishing one creek in the mountains where I think the water was below freezing or right near freezing.  My fly line and leader was a long icicle. Eric – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s fairly warm but the skies are overcast and snow is falling.  I had about an hour or so free late this afternoon and I went to an area where I’ve been seeing some surface midging trout. Although I’m not too fond of the snow, the fish did seem to like the overcast skies. In areas where I had been finding single feeding fish, there were small pods of fish. Sometimes during overcast days even in the Winter, a very tiny BWO comes off. But none were to be found and the fish were feeding on the midges that they normally do this time of year. I approached the first pod of fish. Even with the low clear water, the overcast skies allowed me to get much closer to the fish than our more normal sunny skies do. At this distance, a good cast was easy as was following the tiny fly with my aging eyesight. The first cast resulted in a Rainbow whose fight put down the rest of that pod of fish. I waded downstream and approached the next pod of fish. Same result, one cast one Rainbow and the rest put down. I again went downstream and found another pod. First cast, no take. Second cast a Brown. I quit with that one. Good day, four casts and three fish! Cloud cover sure helps. Willi

Response:

It’s fairly warm but the skies are overcast and snow is falling.  I had about an hour or so free late this afternoon and I went to an area where I’ve been seeing some surface midging trout. Although I’m not too fond of the snow, the fish did seem to like the overcast skies. In areas where I had been finding single feeding fish, there were small pods of fish. Sometimes during overcast days even in the Winter, a very tiny BWO comes off. But none were to be found and the fish were feeding on the midges that they normally do this time of year. I approached the first pod of fish. Even with the low clear water, the overcast skies allowed me to get much closer to the fish than our more normal sunny skies do. At this distance, a good cast was easy as was following the tiny fly with my aging eyesight. The first cast resulted in a Rainbow whose fight put down the rest of that pod of fish. I waded downstream and approached the next pod of fish. Same result, one cast one Rainbow and the rest put down. I again went downstream and found another pod. First cast, no take. Second cast a Brown. I quit with that one. Good day, four casts and three fish! Cloud cover sure helps. Willi

Response:

It’s fairly warm but the skies are overcast and snow is falling. (another nifty description of just one more day in paradise)

        you do appreciate it, don’t you, willi?  living where and how you live?  i thought so. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi

Response:

I do appreciate what I have. Fishing is and has been a big part of my life and has always been a consideration when deciding where to live and how to support myself. I’m self employed with a small business and the benefits of self employment are a mixed bag. I can get away from the business for frequent one to four hour outings but a "real" vacation is very difficult. It’s been several years since I’ve taken off more than four days. This lack of extended time off, I work at least a few hours seven days a week, has made me look closely at nearby waters. An hours drive one way is two hours less fishing. These local waters are generally ignored by other anglers. It seems that for most people, farther is better and famous or well known even more so.  In everywhere I’ve lived except Chicago (where I grew up) I was able to find such places. For the last 12 years I’ve lived on the edge of a metropolitan area of about 250,000 people with lots of fishermen. I fish a major river that runs through town and is passed by thousands of anglers on their way to work each day. Yet this eight mile stretch from the foothills until the river becomes too warm to support trout has MUCH less fishing pressure than any other area with public access on the 50 miles further upstream. Until the last four or five years, another angler more than a 100 yards from any point where a road crosses the river was an extremely rare occurrence. There are still a few stretches that get literally no pressure and even the most "crowded" ones may have one angler per 1/2 mile of river during prime time. IMHO, this area also has higher quality fish. It hasn’t been stocked in a VERY long time, the fish average about 4" larger than in the upstream sections, and there are a few VERY large fish around. However, the fishing is difficult. The density of the trout population is relatively low. The river is much more fertile (for a number of reasons both good and bad) so the fish can be choosy in when and how they feed. This is one of the things that keeps anglers away. My guess is that many people fish the area once or twice and write the area off as fishless. There are places similar to this area all over the country. They are worth checking out and getting to know them. In areas where lake fishing is popular, it may be a stream or river. Where streams are popular, it might be a pond or lake. Many of them are only productive certain times of the year and their secrets can be difficult to learn. Another bonus in these areas is the wide variety of wildlife these areas attract. Since they generally run through developed areas and the wildlife gets concentrated into these riparian areas. Check out your local waters well. Well known places aren’t always better. BTY I just read an article about the state of Wisconsin purchasing a 32,000 acre tract of land. Nice purchase by the people of Wisconsin. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s fairly warm but the skies are overcast and snow is falling. (another nifty description of just one more day in paradise)         you do appreciate it, don’t you, willi?  living where and how you live?  i thought so. wayno Willi

Response:

Question:

I have a question, my daughter is pregnant and has her navel pierced and she asked me if she would need to take it out as her belly grows. I told her I would ask you all since you are very knowledgeable about these things. Thanks                                             Tess Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly…..

Response:

I have a question, my daughter is pregnant and has her navel pierced and she asked me if she would need to take it out as her belly grows. I told her I would ask you all since you are very knowledgeable about these things. Thanks                                            Tess

I had my navel pierced just before I got pregnant.  I was incredably lucky and didn’t have to remove my jewlery.  I should add thought that the reason i was able to elave the jewlery in was because…well as the guy who pierced it at Stainless Studios said my navel is" just plain weird!"  The truth of the matter is most women do indeed have to remove their jewlery, either because the jewlery will beging to migrate out, or becasue the streching causes micro tears in the healed piercing and those tears get infected.  If she does decide to take the piercing out as her belly gets bigger, she can take comfort int he fact that, if the piercing is well healed, there is a chance that the hole will not close entierly and instead of her having to have it re-pierced after her pregnancy, she could simply have it streched back up to whatever size the current jewlery is. Hope that was helpful. Ashen. P.S.  this is a little O.T. but if you live near a place with a "Body Shop" you should head in there and buy her a few COco-butter sticks….have her rub that in her tummy, thighs, butt and brests and it will really help reduce the amount of strechmarks she receives. Trust me those sticks are a god send!!

Response:

Thankyou for the info and I used cocoa butter on both my pregnancies and it did wok wonders (running out to Bath and Body works now)                                                  Tess Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly…..

Response:

I have a question, my daughter is pregnant and has her navel pierced and she asked me if she would need to take it out as her belly grows. I told her I would ask you all since you are very knowledgeable about these things. Thanks                                             Tess Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly…..

Yes your daughter should take the navel piercing out until she has the baby. The ring will stretch the hole and it may look like it’s about to rip out. I’ve seen some of my friends that got pregnant, there piercing’s look like the skin was all stretch out and about to rip throw the skin. When you go to the hospital for any operation they ask that you remove any rings, the same should be in this case.  Howard

Response:

I have a question, my daughter is pregnant and has her navel pierced

and she asked me if she would need to take it out as her belly grows. I told her I would ask you all since you are very knowledgeable about these things.

Well, it depends on a number of things. In most cases it is better to remove the jewelry. The ring can cause damage to the piercing area has the body grows. The other problem is that if she is planning a hospital birth more than likely, they will give her clotting agents that will react to the metal the ring is made of. If she is concerned about losing the piercing she may consider using "fishing line" aka Monofilament nylon line which will tend to be a little more fexible then a ring and will not react to the clotting agents. — http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Amphitheatre/9352

Response:

I have a question, my daughter is pregnant and has her navel pierced and she asked me if she would need to take it out as her belly grows. I told her I would ask you all since you are very knowledgeable about these things. Thanks                                             Tess Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly…..

Well, I posed that same question about 2-3 months ago when I found out I was pregnant. The info I got said that most people end up taking the jewelery out at about 6 months or so.  A few people posted that they were able to keep the original jewelery for the entire pregnancy. For me, at about 15 weeks, my belly button was shallow enough for the pierce to look pretty much like a surface pierce.  The top hole was getting sore and red and the ring was sticking out a great deal.  I was finding it exceedingly uncomfortable (especially when I started breaking out the panel pant which put the waistband of my pants above my navel. The pants would rub the ring when I walked and it was not a happy time for my navel. I had a choice of trying a barbell, fishing line or taking the jewelery out. I decided against a barbell because my navel was shallow as it was and I figured that the balls would probably start to dig in fairly soon.  I also didn’t really want to take the jewelery out without trying to keep it. So, I went to the hardware store to see if I could find fishing line that was close to the same gauge as my ring.  And the fishing line was all really tiny in comparison.  So, I bought a weed whacker line that’s close in gauge.  I cut a piece of the weed whacker line about 2mm longer than the length of the pierce and slid that puppy in.  So far, it’s been fine and I’m at 19 weeks.  The redness went away and the "retainer" isn’t bothersome in the least. My navel was pierced over a year ago and was totally healed when I got pregnant.  I would -not- suggest putting non-autoclaved weedwhacker line in just any navel, but it is working out for me, YMMV.  It’s plastic so it’s more flexible than a barbell.  And the pierce is tight enough for it to stay in place. It looks like I have a piece of uncooked spaghetti in there now though. electric. — please remove id. from the return addy to email electric.

Response:

Yes your daughter should take the navel piercing out until she has the baby. The ring will stretch the hole and it may look like it’s about to rip out. I’ve seen some of my friends that got pregnant, there piercing’s look like the skin was all stretch out and about to rip throw the skin. When you go to the hospital for any operation they ask that you remove any rings, the same should be in this case.  Howard

They didn’t ask me to remove my rings, or my piercing jewlery….they did say though that if i had any vaginal piercings i would have to remove those.  At the time I did not, so there was not problem. Ashen.

Response:

someone mentioned the cocoa butter sticks, they sell them at walgreens too (probably also other pharmacies), i think they’re palmer brand (the brand that makes all the cocoa butter stuff) good luck stephanie Thankyou for the info and I used cocoa butter on both my pregnancies and it did wok wonders (running out to Bath and Body works now)                                                  Tess Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly…..

– My Page: http://www.princeton.edu/~saobodda Best Radio Station: http://listen.to/wprb For Sale: http://auctions.yahoo.com/user/stephanieauryn "Don’t damn me when I speak a piece of mind ‘Cause silence isn’t golden when I’m holding it inside." -Guns and Roses

Response:

Question:

Did you ever see the Walker’s Cay Chronicles, where Flip Pallot and Lefty Kreh were down in that area fly fishing for False Albicore? – Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless

Response:

Did you ever see the Walker’s Cay Chronicles, where Flip Pallot and Lefty Kreh were down in that area fly fishing for False Albicore? – Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless

No.  I’d like to see it though.  That has become one hot light tackle fishery.  Since most people don’t like the false albacore, it is also a catch and release fishery, which will certainly help sustain the stocks as the popularity increases. Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers.  Please respond in Usenet.

Response:

Jeff; Congrabulations!  Hope you fall as much in love with your Scout as I have mine.  False Albacore should be running in your area soon, right? – Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless

Response:

Jeff; Congrabulations!  Hope you fall as much in love with your Scout as I have mine.  False Albacore should be running in your area soon, right? – Bud — Bud Feuless & Miki Magara-Feuless

Yes.  It usually happens in April.  Worry not, I will be catching them! Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers.  Please respond in Usenet.

Response:

   Congrats Jeff !!!!   Have fun Mike G.

Response:

just womdering what you paid? and do the scouts come in center consoles and what is there cost if you dont mind thanks rob

With 150 HP Yamaha and a $2000 single axle trailer for this new 19′ boat, my guess would be $25,000. — Skipper

Response:

just womdering what you paid? and do the scouts come in center consoles and what is there cost if you dont mind thanks rob

Response:

just womdering what you paid? and do the scouts come in center consoles and what is there cost if you dont mind thanks rob

I paid a fair price to the dealer in my area that was most helpful. Amazingly, I was able to negotiate a deal without knowing dealer invoice, blue book value, and wholesale cost.  If you are serious about prices, I suggest calling some dealers in your area for some quotes.  Tell me what they are quoting, and I will give you my opinion on that price.   Scout makes boats up to 20′ in center console, dual console, side console, and flats style.  They are at www.scoutboats.com. Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers.  Please respond in Usenet.

Response:

just womdering what you paid? and do the scouts come in center consoles and what is there cost if you dont mind thanks rob With 150 HP Yamaha and a $2000 single axle trailer for this new 19′ boat, my guess would be $25,000. — Skipper

Good guess, Skipper.  I got a dual axle trailer, and the boat is closer to 20′ than 19′ (19′ 10" LOA). Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers.  Please respond in Usenet.

Response:

Got the call from the dealer today.  My new Scout 202 SF is in!  I’m going to go down on Saturday and lay out where I want the electronics mounted.  It will be ready for the water next week, and I anticipate picking it up on the 13th!   Now I just need the fish to start their trip to the NC coast… Jeff Sorry, but email address disguised due to unscrupulous spammers.  Please respond in Usenet.

Response:

Got the call from the dealer today.  My new Scout 202 SF is in!  I’m going to go down on Saturday and lay out where I want the electronics mounted.  It will be ready for the water next week, and I anticipate picking it up on the 13th!   Now I just need the fish to start their trip to the NC coast… Jeff

Congrats indeed, Jeff!  It always seems that the first year or two, when you’re busy turning the boat into what you want it to be, are the most enjoyable.  We just switched and there’s all the usual redoing to change the obviously stupid decisions the manufacturer and previous owners made to the One True Path of Righteousness (and humility???) Enjoy!

Response:

Question:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer.

Me too. I don’t know how far around the block this conversation has gone, but for my way over 2-cents worth of experience goes, there is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer.  Period.  Anyone buying a canoe should plan an spending a little more for this boat as a starter, then expect to never need to buy another all-around canoe again. See my sig file. — riverman I think, therefore I thwim. Carpe ropum. "There is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer. Period."

Response:

I love Mad River boats BUT one might get a little argument about the Explorer being the best all rounder from Swift Kipawa fans. who would suggest that the Kipawa is more stable more speedy (and faster too) more capacious more maneuverable more white water capable more seaworthy and more perttier. — Lyle

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. Me too. I don’t know how far around the block this conversation has gone, but for my way over 2-cents worth of experience goes, there is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer.  Period.  Anyone buying a canoe should plan an spending a little more for this boat as a starter, then expect to never need to buy another all-around canoe again. See my sig file. — riverman I think, therefore I thwim. Carpe ropum. "There is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer. Period."

Response:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. Me too. I don’t know how far around the block this conversation has gone, but for my way over 2-cents worth of experience goes, there is NO better all around boat (considering performance, versatility, cost, looks, maintenance, etc) than the 16 foot MR Explorer.  Period.  Anyone buying a canoe should plan an spending a little more for this boat as a starter, then expect to never need to buy another all-around canoe again. See my sig file.

If you want one boat that will do everything, I agree (though I haven’t tried the Swift).  If you want a boat for primarily or exclusively flatwater, then there are better choices out there in composite/fiberglass/kevlar — Andrew

Response:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer.

It’s been a while since I purchased my first boat, and I don’t know much about what’s out there, but my general comment would be buy the best boat you can afford.  Don’t spare the horses.  Talk to people in a local canoe and kayak club, and get their recommendations on brands. Tell them what you want to do with the boat–that’s the important part.

Response:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. It’s been a while since I purchased my first boat, and I don’t know much about what’s out there, but my general comment would be buy the best boat you can afford.  Don’t spare the horses.  Talk to people in a local canoe and kayak club, and get their recommendations on brands. Tell them what you want to do with the boat–that’s the important part.

I’ve been a kayaker for a while now, but just recently my new girlfriend wanted a canoe for us.  Have been looking for a used Royalite, or Royalex canoe for a couple months — just today we found it! I consulted with other canoe-types in the club, and this Mohawk Nova 16 (or other similar brands/models) seemed to do it all.  It is Royalex.  This is the exact one we got today, used for $500 with four float bags.  Boats like this are sort of "Do It All" dealies. Each time some new person asks "Which Canoe should i get?" i always say ‘Buy a used, decent brand’ and this is the first time i’ve had to try it out. We like this boat!

Response:

I recommend a 16 ft Mad River Explorer. I own both an Old Town Discovery and the Explorer, and find the Old Town is too heavy to carry any distance (not to mention lift). The Explorer is lighter, handles better, and yes, it’s easier on the eyes. The Discovery might plow through rocks better, but takes on water in the slightest chops. I used to own a Coleman, I’m glad it died an ugly rocky death long ago. http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/5189/index.htm Reach out and touch a rock – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

Response:

The coleman is a good boat for short paddles around a quiet lake once in a while

With a dang, clanging Coleman, the lake’s not going to stay quiet for long. It’s practically a percussion instrument Eddy "Colemans are for keeping beer cool" Rapid.

Response:

It sounds like you’ve been doing your research.  I agree with all your points. About three years ago, I faced the same question.  Like you, I wanted the best for the least.  I purchased a OT Disco158.  I like it fine but if I had the opportunity to make that decision again, I would save a little more money and by the lighter boat with a more efficient hull.  I use it mostly for day paddling with my wife or fishing with my children.  I’ve run a class III in it but don’t suggest it.  I’ve paddled it 32 miles through the Okeefenokee swamp and camped out of it.  I am not interested in getting rid of it but, would not buy another. I understand the Disco169 has a more efficient hull but, it weighs in at a hefty 85lbs. You will find that weight makes more of a difference than you think.  I can car-top my 80lb canoe by myself but "it ain’t pretty."  The yolk makes it easier to carry but it still weighs 80lbs.  A lighter canoe will respond better to corrections/steering and may even be a little faster. If you can stand to wait, I’d recommend it.  You’ll just end up wanting to buy different one in a few years.  I would have by now but I am discovering both sea and whitewater kayaks! Oh yeah, one other thing.  If you really think you’re going to enjoy the sport, don’t give the Coleman too much thought.  You really DO get what you pay for in a canoe. Eric da Grate – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

Response:

Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death…    

                        ~* s n i p *~ If you don’t mind the $65 or so shipping charge, try calling one of the companies someone mentioned else mentioned earlier: Rutabaga in Madison, Wisconsin sells LOTS of boats.  They always have new Old Town blems on hand at a greatly reduced rate.  Not a bad deal for a first boat.   They will be getting lots of used boats in another month after their annual "Canoecopia" show; many people will be trading in their boats for something new. Give them a call at 800-472-3353 (800-I-PADDLE) or check out their website:  www.paddlers.com Tell Darren I sent ya. Good luck. — To reply by email, remove mapson. from the edress Check out the links page at this site: www.paddlers.com

Response:

Thank you all for the replies & advice. I realize that researching a purchase like this, then even trying out different boats would be the best of all worlds, but hearing from folks that have been there is also a definite help. Thanks again!

Response:

If the Coleman is the only way you are going to get on the water, do it!  If you want a boat, get one of the others.  Go demo some boats. The newsgroups cannot tell you how you will feel in a boat.  you need to try them.  Borrow a Coleman and then you can feel the pain in your lower back as you haul it to the water.  Then you will be informed. Try a lake boat with a keel in a moving river and learn why a keel is not too swell in moving water.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

patrickatcyberhighwaydotnet

Response:

Hello!

Well hello to you! I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe.

Actually, they aren’t.  Not compared to Old Town, Mad RIver, Mohawk, etc.  I wouldn’t want to hit too many rocks with a coleman.  Aluminum canoes are extremely durable, but, and this is a BIG BUTT, it’s hard to keep the suckers quiet.  Each and every time you place your paddle in the boat, you and every fish within 300 feet will hear the ‘thud’. I hear the Boy Scouts using them all the time at Upper Priest lake in Idaho…very noisy. already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

You live around here in Spokane?  You join the Spokane Canoe and Kayak Club yet?  I’m the newsletter editor.  We’re having our largest meeting/auction/potluck of the year come February 26th — next friday. If you wanna see a LOT of activity, come see it.  Email me if you want more info.

Response:

For the money you’re looking to spend, I would suggest you test paddle an OT Penobscot 17.  I’ve used mine quite a bit on lakes in minneapolis and in the BWCA.  It’s got moderate initial stability, fantastic secondary stability.  It has no rocker so it tracks like a arrow, but turns like a pig.  Leaning into a turn can give you a good bit of effective rocker.  Its a great tripping boat.

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Tom, I was in your position a few years ago, let me tell you what I bought. I found that the best tradeoff for weight, durability, and cost, for lake and occasional class I/II rivers is fiberglass.  Not the cheap chopper gun variety, but a canoe made up of decent sheet materials.  I chose a Wenonah, largely because I have a great local dealer who sells them (as well as Mad River). Fiberglass advantages are hull stiffness without bulk which = paddling efficiency, no flex while paddling, easily repairable if it does become damaged, etc.  Fiberglass slips across rocks in a low water condition much better than aluminum – avoid that material at all costs if you plan on running low water.  About the only disadvantage is that the gel coat looks beautiful when new, and quickly gets scraped up pretty bad – but that means you’re actually USING the boat, doesn’t it? Your ideal boat in a plastic would be royalex – much lighter than the Old Town crosslink.  It’s well worth the upgrade cost.  I see tons of the Discovery boats for sale – and no royalex boats for sale!! You don’t find many (good) canoes for sale, because most people have no reason to sell them! They’re not that expensive, and last a lifetime with reasonable care. Good luck! Lou – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

Response:

Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe. I plan to use the canoe for hitting some lakes in my region with my sons….do some fly fishing, canoe camp occasionally, that type of thing. If the canoe I end up getting is worthy, the canoe might see some river use (probably nothing worse than Class II, possibly a little Class III, but maybe not), & might also make it to such places as Bowron Lakes & Myrtle Lake in B.C. for more extended canoe camping & paddling (with more portages, a person should start looking at weight….now the cost of the lighter canoes jumps up & introduces itself). I’ve looked at Old Town, Wenonah, Mad River, etc. A person could spend $1000 – $1400 for one of their lighter canoes, or could pay ~$700 for an Old Town Discovery that would suit the bill, but is somewhat heavier. Might also look at a Marathon, Grumman, Osagian, or Alumaweld aluminum canoe as well in that price range. Money being an object here, the price of a Coleman canoe (go ahead, let me have it!) locally is $269 – $319 looks pretty attractive. I know the Coleman would be a rugged, durable canoe. Trying to decide if it’s wiser to get a lighter, more quality designed canoe that would be more versatile in the long term, even if I have to charge !/2 of it or more, or pay cash for something like a Coleman since I’m fairly new to the sport, & would welcome advice from those who have already made such decisions. Would also welcome info about used canoes for sale where freight to eastern Washington wouldn’t be a deterrant. Thanks!

Response:

Hello! I realize that this has probably been beaten to death until some are sick of it, but being new to this group, thought I’d seek some advice anyway. Am going to buy a canoe this spring, & am in a quandry about the wisest choice, while still keeping to a reasonable price. Having seen very few used canoes for sale in my area, so looks like it might be a new canoe.

Yes, it has been done a lot, infact I bet a search on dejanews (www.dejanews.com) would answer most if not all your questions. The coleman is a good boat for short paddles around a quiet lake once in a while, or for giving to a scout troop to learn in (cheap and nigh on industructible).  I have an old town discovery 164 which is about the same as the penobscott, just weighs more… a lot more on a long portage. Personally I’d look around for a used good boat, and stay away from the colemans. Hope this helps Rich Johnson Enfield Nova Scotia Canada

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For flatwater, class I and Class II a good quality fiberglass (cloth, not spray in chopper gun) canoe would be the best bet.  I’d look for a used one, some places (like Rutabaga in Madison, WI and Piragis in ELY, MN) sell a number of used boats like that.  A new We-No-Nah in Tufweave (fiberglass like) can be had for $8-900.  Western Canoeing has similar boats.  Used Kevlar could be in the same range, used fiberglass less. These would work for Class I, not good for Class III, Class II depends on skill level.  For mostly whitewater, Royalex is a better choice, but maybe you can borrow a canoe for those infrequent forays?  It will be heavier and harder to paddle.  Coleman’s are a poor design, Discovery’s are (in the 16′ 9" and 17′ 4" versions) an okay design, but overy heavy and don’t have the long term durability of Royalex. Aluminum is a fine material for flatwater, as good or better than plastic, but can be dangerous in whitewater and a pain in shallow rivers as it tends to stick to rocks, so it’s easy to get stuck and broach. I’d rather (actually I do) have a 17′ Grumman than a Coleman or Discovery. I’d look for a quality fiberglass or used Kevlar boat from We-No-Nah, Mad River, Western, Sawyer. — Andrew Gooding

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Question:

Greetings. I made a reference to Chatham being the only GREAT flyfishing writer alive today (please, this is NOT a John Gierach troll….). I have a specific honest and open-minded question that I ask at the bottom of this post…. Someone responed (I need to go see whom)…"What about Thomas McGuane ?" Well, I wasn’t really sure and hadn’t read any T. McGuane recently, so I read "The Longest Silence" yesterday. I must say that what I read really got me in a lather, it was difficult for me to even get off page one and I recalled my previous feeling for the man. It was not GREAT writing, far from it. The problem was that he made reference to meat hunters and their gunnysack full mentality and how if he hears one more person ask him "is they good to et ?" he would go nuts (which is fine and dandy, he is allowed to have an opinion) but then he went on to (discussing the pursuit of permit) say that "if you have one mounted….", (what you could expect), etc. So I read (in no uncertain terms)… 1) Hunting for meat is beyond reproach. 2) Hunting for a trophy is acceptible. And, as far as I’m concerned….McGuane can pound sand… But that was just the tip…I felt like he was bragging the whole time…about his fearless hauling ass in his overpowered skiff and ricking life and limb in the process. Actually "Bragging" describes his writing farily accurately to me (kind of the way I feel when I read Wulff). Does he write well ?  Perhaps, if you would call inflammatory remarks and bragging ‘writing well’.  A GREAT fishing writer should not rely on this sort of thing, IMO, however popular with his constituents.  It simply is never necessary in the telling of any story by a GREAT writer. I immediately reread Chathams "No Wind in the Willows" (both short stories are in Sports Afield "A Flyfishers Reader") and was brought back to a semblance of calm. Not unlike the transient calmness brought on by the writings in "Waterlog" In fact, if you want me to mellow out entirely, pool together and buy me a subscription to this, the best fishing periodical in the world (Gray’s Sporting News excepted). I guess if asked to surmise… Chatham took me fishing. McGuane took me with him while he fished. Chatham had ’soul’. McGuane only spouted. What can I say, I loved the former but loathed the latter. I’d hate to formulate an opinion on one short story…thus my question…. Can someone point me to "good" McGuane ? Or maybe they meant Thomas Macintyre ? — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Response:

And no-one could accuse you of making "inflammatory remarks" could they Tim??? — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Greetings. Does he write well ?  Perhaps, if you would call inflammatory remarks and bragging ‘writing well’.  A GREAT fishing writer should not rely on this

Response:

And no-one could accuse you of making "inflammatory remarks" could they Tim???

But, uh…with all due respect… We were discussing GREAT fishing author’s and not… "The Efficacy of Beligerance in an Internet Flyfishing Newsgroup…". But if you wanna start that thread….go for it ! — TimW – Halfordian Golfer Guilt replaced the creel…

Response:

Moe asked: <Can someone point me to "good" McGuane ? Impossible.  Go reread Hemingway.

Response:

It’s supposed to be funny!  I think he’s as cynical as they come and I tend to like that sort of thing.  Have you read the Sporting Club?  It makes a lot of fun of the "sports" and they (we) deserve it– in a good way.

Response:

I am willing to wager that any one sentence chosen at random from McGuane’s "Essays On Sport" is more worthy of our attention than anything that will ever pop into your pea brain.  (For example, unlike you, he knows how to spell the word "acceptable.")   If you fish no better than you write, I doubt you’ll ever pose a serious threat to permit.

Response:

It’s a bit harsh to pull someone up for a spelling mistake. Not using the spell checker yes, fair enough but not for a spelling mistake! — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am willing to wager that any one sentence chosen at random from McGuane’s "Essays On Sport" is more worthy of our attention than anything that will ever pop into your pea brain.  (For example, unlike you, he knows how to spell the word "acceptable.")   If you fish no better than you write, I doubt you’ll ever pose a serious threat to permit.

Response:

I made a reference to Chatham being the only GREAT flyfishing writer alive today (please, this is NOT a John Gierach troll….). I have a specific honest and open-minded question that I ask at the bottom of this post….

Wait a minute, I seem to recall a post not so long ago where you maintained a certain writer (whose name I won’t mention) couldn’t possibly be a GREAT fly fishing writer because eighth graders wouldn’t ever be required to read his work (creating a situation where there might only be five "great" writers in all the history of man). Is Chatham required reading in junior high? Tight lines, TC

Response:

Moe asked: <Can someone point me to "good" McGuane ? Impossible.  Go reread Hemingway.

if there is one thing I hate it’s people using Hemingway as an example of a great FF writer. A great writer he was, perhaps the best of a great lot the US of A produced this century. But as a fisherman and a writer about FF he was just a duffer; a mere pedestrian. Most who fished with him ( and lived to regret the experience) – remarked he wasn’t much of a fisherman.Much of his reputation was thanks to his talent for bragging and fabrication (he was a writer of fiction after all!) Hemmingway publically admitted to admiring Haig-Brown – enough said. Ralph H note spurious hyperbole, insults and ‘personal attacks’ made by the author are meant to honour "the Soul of Cicero" and are not intended as personal slights. Please don’t take offense as none is intended. remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Read McGuane’s short story "Molly" in an Outside Chance. If you have ever owned a bird dog you will laugh your ass off.

Response:

Excellent point on McGuane’s rehashing of the same plot line and though he can make his rehash interesting sometimes, Nothing but Blue Skies was barely readable.  To this day, it remains 80 pages short of unread for me with no intent to ever pick it back up. To interject a new arguement though, I can’t say enough though about David James Duncan.  The section of The River Why discussing the weight of a scientist’s frozen brain was absolute comedic brilliance. Cheers, Ivan

Response:

Excellent point on McGuane’s rehashing of the same plot line and though he can make his rehash interesting sometimes, Nothing but Blue Skies was barely readable.  To this day, it remains 80 pages short of unread for me with no intent to ever pick it back up. To interject a new arguement though, I can’t say enough though about David James Duncan.  The section of The River Why discussing the weight of a scientist’s frozen brain was absolute comedic brilliance.

I read "The River Why" not long ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. It was actually assigned to one of my sons’ high school english class to read. — Charlie…

Response:

: I read "The River Why" not long ago and thoroughly enjoyed it. It was : actually assigned to one of my sons’ high school english class to : read. Beautiful stuff indeed.  So good, I can’t bring myself to read Duncan’s other work in case it doesn’t match up.  I guess I’m losing my optimistic side… — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Question:

Who was it said ‘A woman is just a woman but a good cigar is a smoke’? Probably W.C. Fields or George Burns. Pete Marrow http://www.gorp.com/gorp/activity/scottish_ff_faq.htm

Response:

I always offer my trout a Marlboro before I knock its head on a boulder…

Response:

A smoker AND a fish murderer!! How many of your victims have accepted a last cigarette? — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always offer my trout a Marlboro before I knock its head on a boulder…

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A good fart is better than a good cigar. William Buchman

For the sake of future generations – think of the ozone layer! — Bill

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If you smoke after flyfishing, you’re doing it too fast. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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‘And a woman is only a woman, but a good cigar is a smoke.’ Rudyard Kipling. You should be ashamed<g. Who was it said ‘A woman is just a woman but a good cigar is a smoke’? Probably W.C. Fields or George Burns.

– Charlie…

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Drugs are for sick people. You said it, enjoy and be damned.

Oh Bill, you have such a BIG heart.  You’re so open minded I could just puke. </chaz

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Of course a good cigar *does* keep away black flies and PCJs.

Good Dave. Even a cheap cigar keeps the biter bugs away. Joel Axelrad

Response:

William Buchman writes:

<<Many smokers are indeed courteous while a few seem to take pleasure in directing their smoke toward others. William Buchman Come on, Buchman.  Lighten up.  I smoked for 45 years and quit five years ago without any problems.  I have never seen a smoker getting his jollies by annoying others with his smoke, especially today.  Any smoke you get while fishing is thousands of times less dangerous than the exhaust smoke you inhaled driving to the stream.  The beauty of smoking outside is that you can position yourself so that the smoke blows away from you.  Ever tried that?  But walking down the street of any town or city is going to expose you to so much lung damage (as compared to cigarette smoke) that you should probably let your wife do all the shopping.  Never go to the mall, Buchman — way to much smoke (from cars and those %*& SUVs. <<<<<<<< Over the last few years, especially after retiring, I am able to keep away from smokers.  When working, I was very annoyed at meetings where one or two smokers could screw up a meeting of about 20 people. I am not conerned over health effects from second hand smoke. My present greatest exposure to smoke is at a swap meet I attend regularly.  If I see someone smoking, I try to avoid them. But every now and then I get an unpleasant surprise by inhaling the concentrated effluent from an unseen cigarette.  MOST ANNOYING!  Smokers do not realize how annoying their effluent can be.  I must admit that smokers purposely annoying other people was mostly a phenomenon associated with younger smokers. The big problem came with filter cigarettes.  Because it did filter out whatever it was that addicted people, stronger and smellier tobacco was used. While the effect on the smoker was not changed much, the unfortunate bystander took a big hit. William Buchman

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A good fart is better than a good cigar. William Buchman

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The trouble with the carcinogenic effects of tobacco is that it works too slowly.

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Buchman writes:

<<The trouble with the carcinogenic effects of tobacco is that it works too slowly. That’s what I like about you, Buchman — you’re all heart. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Drugs are for sick people.

You said it, enjoy and be damned. — Bill

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Do we have to put up with anti-smoking idiots even on ROFF? Joel Axelrad

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Do we have to put up with anti-smoking idiots even on ROFF? Joel Axelrad

Nah, smoke all you want on roff<g. — Charlie…

Response:

More "free speech". — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Do we have to put up with anti-smoking idiots even on ROFF? Joel Axelrad

Response:

Do we have to put up with anti-smoking idiots even on ROFF? Joel Axelrad

Flames as well as smoke! — Bill

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Do we have to put up with anti-smoking idiots even on ROFF? Joel Axelrad

I’ve got a cigarette going right now!   Damn proud of it, too. And I think that the term "idiots" as joel posted is being way too kind.   Words like assholes, and pricks come to mind much more easily. I actually had to have a chat with my Gen Mgr and Human Resources person about it at work a couple weeks ago.  People were giving me shit constantly about it.  I asked them in that meeting that it be stopped permanently and immediately with this big smile on my face that suggested that a lawsuit totalling more than my companies net worth would be filed if it didn’t. It worked. I also smoke while fishing.  I have been known to accidently drop a butt in the river too, but that’s usually when a trout interupts my smoke break by choosing to hit my fly.  Pretty hard to put out a cigarrette and stick it in my vest when one of the leviathans of the South Platte is ripping line off my reel faster than I can think about it. I should also add that to compensate for may occaisional environmental faux pas I NEVER use those damned sticky foam bobbers that so many nymph fishers refer to a "strike indicators".  You find a lot more of those damned things littering the banks than cigarette butts. </chaz

Response:

My only objection to people smoking safely and cleanly occurs when I breathe their effluent.  I would get pissed if they start a forest fire even if I cannot smell their smoke.  Unfortunately, the emitted crap can go a long way before it becomes innocuous.  As a courtesy, I would hope smokers would have the tact to avoid the situation where their smoke annoys others.  Many smokers are indeed courteous while a few seem to take pleasure in directing their smoke toward others. William Buchman

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Sense of humour failure,methinks! Pedanticism should be left to those who NEVER write anything that could be misconstrued, intentionally or

otherwise. Ahhh….joke ‘em if they can’t take a …. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

<snipped but VERY well said Of course a good cigar *does* keep away black flies and PCJs.

Oh yeah, better than smearing that DEET shit all over your skin. I’ve often felt that rolling up a fat one for a day astream an excellent addition to my arsenal. (before anyone says a word I want it to be known that I know it’s illegal as hell and I don’t give a damn, okay?  And there’s no law against talking about it.  And a note for the kids:  Drugs are for sick people.) It doesn’t improve my fishing one bit, and probably hurts more than helps a creel count, but it sure makes those bungholes that make noise about my cigarrette smoking a lot easier to take. </chaz

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William Buchman writes:

<<Many smokers are indeed courteous while a few seem to take pleasure in directing their smoke toward others. William Buchman Come on, Buchman.  Lighten up.  I smoked for 45 years and quit five years ago without any problems.  I have never seen a smoker getting his jollies by annoying others with his smoke, especially today.  Any smoke you get while fishing is thousands of times less dangerous than the exhaust smoke you inhaled driving to the stream.  The beauty of smoking outside is that you can position yourself so that the smoke blows away from you.  Ever tried that?  But walking down the street of any town or city is going to expose you to so much lung damage (as compared to cigarette smoke) that you should probably let your wife do all the shopping.  Never go to the mall, Buchman — way to much smoke (from cars and those %*& SUVs. Of course a good cigar *does* keep away black flies and PCJs. Dave LaCourse

Response:

What I do have a problem with is telling young ROFF readers that a pipe, cigar, or chew is *mandatory* to the experience of flyfishing. Nonsense. No-one said it was mandatory.

What part of the following post do you not understand? Cigars or cigarettes are a strictly a no-no on the stream!   If you really want to "put on the dog" and fool the other flyfishermen into thinking that you know what you’re doing out on the stream, it is absolutely mandatory that you smoke a pipe. Path: lobby01.news.aol.com!newstf02.news.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-peer. gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!newscon04!prodigy.com!not-f or-mail Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly HTH

Response:

Sense of humour failure,methinks! Pedanticism should be left to those who NEVER write anything that could be misconstrued, intentionally or otherwise. — Regards Peter (Please also reply by email, my server "loses" posts. Remove nospam to email)

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What I do have a problem with is telling young ROFF readers that a pipe, cigar, or chew is *mandatory* to the experience of flyfishing. Nonsense. No-one said it was mandatory. What part of the following post do you not understand? Cigars or cigarettes are a strictly a no-no on the stream!   If you really want to "put on the dog" and fool the other flyfishermen into thinking that you know what you’re doing out on the stream, it is absolutely mandatory that you smoke a pipe. Path: lobby01.news.aol.com!newstf02.news.aol.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-peer. gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!howland.erols.net!newscon04!prodigy.com!not-f or-mail Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly HTH

Response:

Question:

Next week I’m finally taking that trip up the Little Kern to Golden Trout country that me and my fishing buddy have been talking about for two years.  Plan to take the forks of the Kern Trail down to the forks, then pack in from there for a couple of days.  Anyone have any useful info for fishing the area this time of year.  Flies, good campsites, etc.? —                                                            -dnc-

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Next week I’m finally taking that trip up the Little Kern to Golden Trout country that me and my fishing buddy have been talking about for two years.  Plan to take the forks of the Kern Trail down to the forks, then pack in from there for a couple of days.  Anyone have any useful info for fishing the area this time of year.  Flies, good campsites, etc.?

Years ago I fished the main stem of the Kern, from Junction Meadow up to Lake South America–very similar countryside to where you’re going.  (I accessed the area from the Whitney Portal trail.)  As I recall, there were good campsites just about everywhere.  I was in my attractor fly phase, and I caught tons of rainbows and goldens using mainly just a bi-visible.  I’d fish a fly until it was chewed beyond recognition, tie on another, and keep catching them.  I even kept on catching them during an afternoon thunder shower (ducking under a tree during the worst of it, then continuing after the lightning had moved up the canyon).  These were wild fish, and they weren’t at all picky.  You can probably get by using generic sorts of attractors: Adams, Humpy, bi-visibles, hare’s ear nymphs, zug bugs, PTs, etc., and some black Muddlers for lakes.  Smaller sizes are probably best. What I remember best was the bear that I saw one morning.  I had fished upstream a considerable distance from my camp on the opposite side of the river, when a black bear ambled by on the far side, heading upstream.  He never saw me, until I let him get a couple of hundred feet above me, and I whistled.  The bear stopped, looked around a moment, until he spotted me.  We held eye contact for a moment, then he continued on.  Since he’d come from the direction of my camp, I was concerned, but there was not much I could do after the fact–so, angler that I am, I kept on fishing.  Later, I crossed over, and back tracked the bear toward my camp.  I was amazed to discover that the bear’s tracks had made a wide circle *around* my camp, in an obvious attempt to avoid contact with humans (that would be me, such as it is). Understandable, certainly, but I never counted on that happening again. Even though my next day’s hike took my upstream also, I didn’t spot the bear again.  (And, oh yes, I have had California black bears in camp, trying to get my food, on other trips.  Usually they’re pretty benign; shouting, banging pots and pans, throwing rocks will run them off.  I insanely chased a bear out of camp one morning.  I chased him up to the top of a hill.  I was stone out of breath, he was still fresh, and acted like he wanted to play some more.  I skedaddled.) The moral of this story is to always exercise the best "bear discipline" you can while in bear country; and you’ll catch lots of fish, too. Enjoy your trip, Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me. http://www.midtown.net/~angler/

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Question:

I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order dealer and/or any suggestions on brands. Thanks for any suggestions. David

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Sorry to be glib on what is supposed to be a serious request, BUT, I just realized that I must have been wearing womens waders all along.  Why else would the zipper be missing from where I need it the most? Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order dealer and/or any suggestions on brands. Thanks for any suggestions. David

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I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order dealer and/or any suggestions on brands.

Orvis is just one of many manufacturers that makes a women’s wader. If your local shop doesn’t carry them you can always mail order. jackie billings, mt

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I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order dealer and/or any suggestions on brands. Thanks for any suggestions. David

Hi David, Orvis sells excellent women’s waders (both rubber and neoprene).  They aren’t cheap but they’re good.  A quick web search should get you a catalogue (that’s how I got mine). –Margot F.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order dealer and/or any suggestions on brands. Thanks for any suggestions. David Hi David, Orvis sells excellent women’s waders (both rubber and neoprene).  They aren’t cheap but they’re good.  A quick web search should get you a catalogue (that’s how I got mine). –Margot F.

LL Bean also offers woman’s waders and custom made waders too.  They are on the web as well. — The views expressed are my own and does not represent those of my employer.

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Orvis is just one of many manufacturers that makes a women’s wader. If your local shop doesn’t carry them you can always mail order.

Someone also once posted the address of a California company called Damselfly which specializes in women’s flyfishing needs. Their number is 1-800-966-4166. I haven’t dealt with them personally, being a double victim of both chronic poverty and the Canadian exchange rate, but I’m willing to bet they’re worth checking out before going to Orvis… — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank, ichthyophile. Toronto, Ontario, Canada. see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

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I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order dealer and/or any suggestions on brands. Thanks for any suggestions. David

Bare, Simms and Orvis have womans neoprene wader. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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 I want to get my wife a set of waders for fly fishing, but have been  unable to find anything.  Does anyone know of a reputable mail order  dealer and/or any suggestions on brands.

If your wife is what is considered average in size, Damsel Fly should have waders to fit her.  Otherwise, any of the companies that custom make waders is your best bet.  Mine came from StreamLine in Bainbridge, Washington but most good flyshops can order for you and will have the necessary form to get all the measurements right.  I’m not sure if all the manufacturers are making a women’s cut in waders yet but StreamLine does.                         – Jewelee

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Hi, My wife wears Simms Womens neoprene waders and loves them.  She has gotten quite a bit of use out of them.  They are a bit expensive (I don’t know how much wading your wife will be doing), and the pair she has is purple (which just happens to be her favorite color). Actually, the waders appear dark blue in the water. Otherwise, the ORvis womens waders have received good reviews also from a few women I have guided. -paul Paul Williamson Emigrant, MT 59027

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Question:

No man can lose what he never had.           Chap. v. The Compleate Angler – Izaak Walton. 1593-1683. I guess that’s why its called fishing and not catching Tight lines Julian

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Bad news….16 inches isn’t a monster.  It’s a nice fish, but not worth  crying over.  Hope this makes you feel better.

I beg to differ…it was probably a speck (brook trout), in which case 16 inches is DEFINITELY worth crying over. The biggest brookie I’ve caught so far was only 10 inches. "Oh, once in a while you’ll tie into a big one, say seven or eight inches long, but you’ll need to use live bait and Ford Fenders for one of those." – Jeff Ohman, Fear of Fly fishing. My condolences, Pierre…but look on the bright side…you saw it, you felt it. You may run into it again, in which case say hello from me. — K.G. (Kat) Cruickshank – fish enthusiast – Toronto, Ontario, Canada see my illustrations at http://www.mackerel.com/fish/home.html

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16" may be a big brookie on some small stream, but on large lakes and rivers in northern Ontario, and especially Quebec, a 16" brookie doesn’t even entitle you to braggin rights.  IMHO.  Tight lines.  

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Yesterday, I was fishing near my home in Quebec with my girlfriend’s father I was using a little green Muddler. After I had caught 10 trouts, some have 11 inches long, I saw this MONSTER at the end of my line. It was at least 16 inches. But I just can’t bring it on the ground I had no net and I lost it. Since yesterday I can’t stop tinking about this fish. Help me

Congratulate yourself on effecting a humane and brilliantly executed long distance release, tie another muddler and get on with your life.

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Yesterday, I was fishing near my home in Quebec with my girlfriend’s father I was using a little green Muddler. After I had caught 10 trouts, some have 11 inches long, I saw this MONSTER at the end of my line. It was at least 16 inches. But I just can’t bring it on the ground I had no net and I lost it. Since yesterday I can’t stop tinking about this fish. Help me

it was the spirits of 10 fishies haunting you.   you must cleanse yourself by UPS’ing me all of your fishing stuff. it is the only way. TimW

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Yesterday, I was fishing near my home in Quebec with my girlfriend’s father I was using a little green Muddler. After I had caught 10 trouts, some have 11 inches long, I saw this MONSTER at the end of my line. It was at least 16 inches. But I just can’t bring it on the ground I had no net and I lost it. Since yesterday I can’t stop tinking about this fish. Help me

Pierre,  Congratulations!! You haven’t "lost" your monster trout, you have successfully completed one of the most difficult type of humane releases a Catch and Release Fly Fisher can accomplish — The Long Distance – No Hands Release. What you experienced is not a failure but a magnificent success. Non, mon ami you don’t need therapy —  YOU NEED A NET!!!!!! jg

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You need more than a net.  You need to re-define "big" trout. A big trout is 5 lbs or better IMHO. 16" trout are a dime a dozen.  Great fighters at that size, though.

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Bad news….16 inches isn’t a monster.  It’s a nice fish, but not worth crying over.  Hope this makes you feel better.

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IMHO, the size of a "great" trout depends on the river or watershed and your experience catching and releasing that fish.  In a number of fisheries a 16" fish may represent the best that that ecosystem is capable of producing and sustaining. Dave Donahue

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Since yesterday I can’t stop tinking about this fish. Help me

Pierre, this is a malady that effects us all.  The demons of the deep (sometimes shallow) will continue to haunt us all for as long as we fish and then some.  I myself have a similiar re-occuring nightmare where I lost a 28in, 6-6 1/2 lb brown on a size 22 nymph when the knot came loose.  I have dreamed about that fish at least once a month for the last two years.  But a wise man once said, "It is better to have fished and lost than never to have fished before!"  Keep on trying and remember "Love ‘em and Leave ‘em."

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Yesterday, I was fishing near my home in Quebec with my girlfriend’s father I was using a little green Muddler. After I had caught 10 trouts, some have 11 inches long, I saw this MONSTER at the end of my line. It was at least 16 inches. But I just can’t bring it on the ground I had no net and I lost it. Since yesterday I can’t stop tinking about this fish. Help me

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Question:

Collins) writes:

There’s all kinds of ‘em with trolling motors attached… I suggest you get yourself a Buddy II depthfinder and go kick some bass. Tom King KOTH Fly Fishing

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Anyone out there do any kick-boating?  I just purchased a J&W Outfitters Kingfisher III with all accessories, and am eager to try it out.  Just wondering if anyone has any comments or tips? Anyone been successful in hooking up a trolling motor to this puppy? I know one will be available next year from J&W.

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