Question:

If one hand is clapping, what is the other hand doing to generate the applause?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary. Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . .

Response:

You don’t want to know about Opie’s sex life.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If one hand is clapping, what is the other hand doing to generate the applause?

Response:

snip Well said Grasshopper. Dave

Response:

I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

Why would you want to understand it, and why do you hate America? Tim

Response:

I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

It has been asked, "How should those who enter The path apply their minds?" All things are originally uncreated And presently undying. Just let your mind be free; You don’t have to restrain it. See directly and hear directly; Come directly and go directly. When you must go, then go; When you must stay, then stay. – Niu-t’ou Hui-chung (683-769)

Response:

I believe that the current minimum length of time required, is from the DEC flyfishing list days to present.  Anything shorter is will result in a less than complete understanding.  One large short cut that has been found to be effective in shortening this is, to killfile any and all posts by muskie and He Who Must Not Be Named (GG,Bamboorods  and his various incarnations). I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

– Chris Richer chrisratnostormspamdotca

Response:

I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

Who knows?   Best to ignore the perceived personalities, and just read the posts, or not, depending on your current inclination. It is rare to understand anyone, much less an electronic projection of someone, it is easier to simply accept some things. TL MC

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If you ever think you have figured this place out, or have a grip on the relative personas, you should be very concerned about your own mental state. jh

Response:

I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group?   After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

If you ever do understand this place, you will become bored, and wander off. — Charles Davis    K4SWB <I’m The NRA

Response:

I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

Nope, Saturday Night Live characters don’t make it.  Try Monty Python or Firesign Theatre references next time.

Response:

I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group?   After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

About 2 seconds…well, if you mean understanding that, like life its ownself, there are quite a mix of people and personalities, and not all are going to act, write, think, or otherwise do what another might wish or expect…of course, if you mean understand completely each and every post and reply….BWAHAHAHAHA…. HTH, R …who would suggest a firm understanding of the existence of, and a passing familiarity with, Lewis Carroll, HST, Oscar Wilde, Dr. Seuss, satirical comedy, with a special nod to that of America, Canada, and the UK, as well as the works of Gierach, Hill, McManus, Jenkins, and too-long a list of fishing writers, whilst not forgetting Ken Kesey and Donald Segretti…no, it won’t allow for understanding, but it’d help…hey, who says a potatoe is a terrible thing to mind?  Wait a minute…that doesn’t sound quite right…oh, well…please always remember, and don’t ever forget, because I’ll only say this once: HOBGOBLINS!  GREAT, WRITHING, SEETHING HOBGOBLINS!…and they’ve gotten their drunken paws, such as they are, on the controls…

Response:

I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

Should take about four to six hours.  Any more than that, you got a real problem.  How ya doin’ so far? Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. About 2 seconds…well, if you mean understanding that, like life its ownself, there are quite a mix of people and personalities, and not all are going to act, write, think, or otherwise do what another might wish or expect…of course, if you mean understand completely each and every post and reply….BWAHAHAHAHA…. HTH, R …who would suggest a firm understanding of the existence of, and a passing familiarity with, Lewis Carroll, HST, Oscar Wilde, Dr. Seuss, satirical comedy, with a special nod to that of America, Canada, and the UK, as well as the works of Gierach, Hill, McManus, Jenkins, and too-long a list of fishing writers, whilst not forgetting Ken Kesey and Donald Segretti…no, it won’t allow for understanding, but it’d help…hey, who says a potatoe is a terrible thing to mind?  Wait a minute…that doesn’t sound quite right…oh, well…please always remember, and don’t ever forget, because I’ll only say this once: HOBGOBLINS!  GREAT, WRITHING, SEETHING HOBGOBLINS!…and they’ve gotten their drunken paws, such as they are, on the controls…

Uhh . . .I was gunna come out of lurking . . . . crap . . . couldn’t get past the "potatoe".  . . . geesh! . . . back to the text books . . . I guess . . . or  . . . somethin’. DaveMohnsen Denver

Response:

I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

That’s just it CaveXman.  Don’t try to figure out anything.  Everyone just leaves it to Darwin.  Now, figure that one out. George Gehrke "the gent with keyboard button cuff links"

Response:

I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. That’s just it CaveXman.  Don’t try to figure out anything.  Everyone just leaves it to Darwin.  Now, figure that one out.

Darwin?  Isn’t he the guy inside the fish sign on cars? — remove all x and y’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

Response:

Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary.

Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . .

Response:

Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary. Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . .

…clapping you upside the head, as you get bitch-slapped by somebody who took umbrage at something you posted… Kevin

Response:

Doh!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary. Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . . …clapping you upside the head, as you get bitch-slapped by somebody who took umbrage at something you posted… Kevin

Response:

Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary. Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . . …clapping you upside the head, as you get bitch-slapped by somebody who took umbrage at something you posted…

Shut up you pompous, hypocritical sissy. p.s. Do I know you?

Response:

I believe that the current minimum length of time required, is from the DEC flyfishing list days to present.  Anything shorter is will result in a less than complete understanding.  One large short cut that has been found to be effective in shortening this is, to killfile any and all posts by muskie and He Who Must Not Be Named (GG,Bamboorods  and his various incarnations).

Chris you were a DEC Flyfishing notes guy? Don’t remember you… Flyfish AKA Dave the ordealmaster

Response:

Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. About 2 seconds…well, if you mean understanding that, like life its ownself, there are quite a mix of people and personalities, and not all are going to act, write, think, or otherwise do what another might wish or expect…of course, if you mean understand completely each and every post and reply….BWAHAHAHAHA…. HTH, R …who would suggest a firm understanding of the existence of, and a passing familiarity with, Lewis Carroll, HST, Oscar Wilde, Dr. Seuss, satirical comedy, with a special nod to that of America, Canada, and the UK, as well as the works of Gierach, Hill, McManus, Jenkins, and too-long a list of fishing writers, whilst not forgetting Ken Kesey and Donald Segretti…no, it won’t allow for understanding, but it’d help…hey, who says a potatoe is a terrible thing to mind?  Wait a minute…that doesn’t sound quite right…oh, well…please always remember, and don’t ever forget, because I’ll only say this once: HOBGOBLINS!  GREAT, WRITHING, SEETHING HOBGOBLINS!…and they’ve gotten their drunken paws, such as they are, on the controls… Uhh . . .I was gunna come out of lurking . . . . crap . . . couldn’t get past the "potatoe".  . . . geesh! . . . back to the text books . . . I guess . . . or  . . . somethin’. DaveMohnsen Denver

Hey, a polite newcomer…see, you never know what’s gonna happen next…welcome aboard, and here’s an explanation…it’s really a really obscure reference to some stuff Dan Quayle said/did…remember the "potatoe" and "a waste is terrible thing to mind" stuff?   Well, it was my decidedly indirect way of implying that a fair amount of both substantive and trivial off-topic knowledge is helpful, if one wishes to engage in that aspect of ROFF, such as the political, er, discussions/riots.   As to the rest, it’s simply an-out-of-the-norm way of saying "hey, ROFF can be a strange place at times, and often as not, NOBODY understands everything," with some TV show catch phrases tossed in (see above).  Also remember (or learn) that ROFF, as a whole, almost never completely agrees on what’s funny, not funny, (in)appropriate, sick, SPAM, or much of anything else save two, or maybe even just one: we all seem to have a love of (fly) fishing (although what exactly defines "fly fishing" is often a source of disagreement, so maybe even that doesn’t even count), and on some level, like reading ROFF… TC, R

Response:

I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group?   After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

Response:

Question:

Don’t really have any trout waters near home Willi, so yours was a pleasant read. I was however, standing around and chatting with a few friends today and we are all of the same persuasion. With a much milder than normal winter – usually  a several day stretch of below zero weather and this time not one day of single digits! – we agree it is time to start checking the water temperature. Our general feeling is that when the thermometer reads anything above forty degrees, it’s time to start fishing as the smallmouth start moving to the spawning beds. Not actually on the beds but they begin to leave the winter holes and move in the rivers and begin feeding. It’s fun to have that ‘antsy’ ‘ants in your pants’ feeling ain’t it? john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I mentioned in an early post that for the first time in about a month and half, I actually saw some trout during a walk. Today is very pleasant and on my way back from picking up some electrical supplies, I stopped at the river and checked it out from the bridge. Standing on the bridge and looking down, I saw a pod of about twenty trout feeding in the pool below. (See pics on ABPF) I decided to take an hour off and do some fishing. I walked downstream to an area that frequently has some free rising fish. As I approached the area, I saw several dimples from rising fish. Although some of the rises were from fish sipping pupa, many of them were fish taking midge adults which is uncommon. The midges were huge, well relatively anyway, about a size twenty. Water levels are still down and the fish were feeding in water that varied from one to three feet in depth. They spread out in a section of river about 150 feet in length and were feeding in several distinct pods. The current is very moderate in most of this area and in the clear water I could see the fish suspended above the bottom at their feeding stations and watch them as they chased a pupa or rose to an adult. Especially when they are feeding in such thin water, the fish here are very spooky. You generally have your best chance at any given fish on the first presentation. Once you get a refusal from a fish, your next drift over it may spook it and put down the whole pod. I tied on a Griffith’s Gnat and crept into position. I started working the first fish, got a refusal on the third cast and moved on to the next one. The next fish I worked took on about the fourth cast. I landed it, slid it onto a shelf of ice that remained in the shady area where I was standing and took a picture. See ABPF The commotion of the fish put down the rest of that pod of fish. I moved upstream to the next group. There appeared to be a better fish feeding along the opposite bank, just upstream from a large boulder. Since I usually can only get one fish from a pod, if that, I decided to target that fish. The cast was across several different current seams and getting a good drift was difficult. A dozen casts later, I got the fly where it needed to be and got the fish, another Rainbow a couple of inches bigger and much fatter. Again the rest of that pod of fish was put down. I had time to hit one more area. There was a single fish feeding in the head of this run. The fish feeding in this area are usually much easier. The faster current gives them less time to survey your fly and broken surface makes your errors less noticeable. Several casts later, I finally got a good drift and hooked the fish. It was another Rainbow about the size of the first, around 15/16 inches. Time to go home and do some electric repairs. I was very glad to see the condition of the fish. All were in good shape. We had a mild Winter this year which helps the trout. Early fish after a hard Winter are often very skinny from Winter’s stress. For the next several weeks it will take several days in a row of warm temperatures, like we had recently, to get the fish moving. By mid March, the Olives will start. Willi

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was very glad to see the condition of the fish. All were in good shape. We had a mild Winter this year which helps the trout. Early fish after a hard Winter are often very skinny from Winter’s stress. For the next several weeks it will take several days in a row of warm temperatures, like we had recently, to get the fish moving. By mid March, the Olives will start. How is the snowpack in the upper watershed up there?  It is almost scary low down here.  I am certainly hoping that the mild winter that we have had does not translate into another low-water, high-temperature summer. BTW….to the folks that live in Wyoming….how is it looking up there?

I should have been aware of this just from observation, but I haven’t heard anything about it on the news. I just looked it up and the different basins across Colorado range from 45 to 70 percent of normal. This isn’t good, but the next few of months are our wettest months and can make a big difference. Willi

Response:

I tied on a Griffith’s Gnat and crept into position. I started working the first fish, got a refusal on the third cast and moved on to the next one. The next fish I worked took on about the fourth cast. I landed it, slid it onto a shelf of ice that remained in the shady area where I was standing and took a picture. See ABPF

That’s a great fish-on-the-ground photo, Willi. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a rainbow in that condition. The ice makes a perfect background. You must have used a digital camera. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I was very glad to see the condition of the fish. All were in good shape. We had a mild Winter this year which helps the trout. Early fish after a hard Winter are often very skinny from Winter’s stress. For the next several weeks it will take several days in a row of warm temperatures, like we had recently, to get the fish moving. By mid March, the Olives will start.

How is the snowpack in the upper watershed up there?  It is almost scary low down here.  I am certainly hoping that the mild winter that we have had does not translate into another low-water, high-temperature summer. BTW….to the folks that live in Wyoming….how is it looking up there?  

Response:

BTW….to the folks that live in Wyoming….how is it looking up there?

  It’s looking pretty bleak along the east face of the Bighorns.  Reservoirs are all very low.  I went up again and fished the tail water of the Tongue today. It’s as low as I’ve seen in the 3 years I’ve fished it.  The reservoir is very low.  Looks like it will be another tough year for our small streams. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Was it El Nino or El Nina that I saw a blurb of on the news the other day? I get them mixed up.  Anyhow, whatever areas whichever one effects are due for some rain this year……maybe a lot. john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was very glad to see the condition of the fish. All were in good shape. We had a mild Winter this year which helps the trout. Early fish after a hard Winter are often very skinny from Winter’s stress. For the next several weeks it will take several days in a row of warm temperatures, like we had recently, to get the fish moving. By mid March, the Olives will start. How is the snowpack in the upper watershed up there?  It is almost scary low down here.  I am certainly hoping that the mild winter that we have had does not translate into another low-water, high-temperature summer. BTW….to the folks that live in Wyoming….how is it looking up there? I should have been aware of this just from observation, but I haven’t heard anything about it on the news. I just looked it up and the different basins across Colorado range from 45 to 70 percent of normal. This isn’t good, but the next few of months are our wettest months and can make a big difference. Willi

Response:

BTW….to the folks that live in Wyoming….how is it looking up there?

Unless March and April bring some pleasant surprises, it’s looking like a season that will begin early and end early. The snowpack is so low that there isn’t even enough to ski on (IMHO) at the local resort. Some of the ranges in Colorado seem to be doing better, so I expect I’ll be doing most of my fishing down there after mid-July or thereabouts. If I do a mini clave up here, it will almost definitely be held in early July. I’m hoping a heavy spring snowfall and subsequent runoff will force a several-week postponement, but I wouldn’t bet on it. I won’t be surprised at all to be fishing the high country on Memorial Day this year. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

 How is the snowpack in the upper watershed up there?  It is almost scary low down here.  I am certainly hoping that the mild winter that we have had does not translate into another low-water, high-temperature summer. BTW….to the folks that live in Wyoming….how is it looking up there?  

Hey Chip,  You might know about this site, but here is a link to the Snotel data. ftp://ftp.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/data/snow/update Great place to find snowpack info.  The northern states are certainly doing better than the southern states…. — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

Response:

I mentioned in an early post that for the first time in about a month and half, I actually saw some trout during a walk. Today is very pleasant and on my way back from picking up some electrical supplies, I stopped at the river and checked it out from the bridge. Standing on the bridge and looking down, I saw a pod of about twenty trout feeding in the pool below. (See pics on ABPF)

Glad to hear that you’re out on the home waters. Is this much earlier than usual? IOW, when you say "mild winter" do you mean length of winter or depth (cold temps), or both? Danl who doesn’t even have his ‘02 license yet…Oh the shame!….

Response:

The guy I am after is in a meeting but I have a left a message for him to call me. It may take him a little time to get to me as I’ll be away from home and the lodge for the next week or so. But I will get the answer. I forgot to mention earlier, the reason I compared the fishing as similar to ours was the "one shot" scenario of get it right or spook em. Clark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds like some nice fishing Willi, and the style is somewhat reminiscent of our North Island spring creek fishing by the sounds of things. The river is on the plains instead of in the mountains, so it does have SOME spring creek characteristics. The fish average considerably larger than in the upstream mountain areas but there are far fewer fish. From your descriptions, your rivers have lower populations of fish than our rivers in general but your fish are considerably larger. The only streams or rivers that I know of that have fish that average in size what yours seem to, are short sections of tailwaters that are below reservoirs that have miasis (sp)shrimp in them. I know I asked you this before but have you gotten any more information as to why this would be? It seems to me that you must either have very limitted spawning or the survival of the fry or young fish is low. Willi

Response:

Sounds like some nice fishing Willi, and the style is somewhat reminiscent of our North Island spring creek fishing by the sounds of things.

The river is on the plains instead of in the mountains, so it does have SOME spring creek characteristics. The fish average considerably larger than in the upstream mountain areas but there are far fewer fish. From your descriptions, your rivers have lower populations of fish than our rivers in general but your fish are considerably larger. The only streams or rivers that I know of that have fish that average in size what yours seem to, are short sections of tailwaters that are below reservoirs that have miasis (sp)shrimp in them. I know I asked you this before but have you gotten any more information as to why this would be? It seems to me that you must either have very limitted spawning or the survival of the fry or young fish is low. Willi

Response:

Well that’s the curious part. In short answer as to my research no, I simply haven’t had time. I am just finishing 2 days off and will make a call to a friend in a second and see what answer he gives, he heads up one of our major Fish and Game Councils. However, I will presume that neither your ideas are really accurate. there is abundant spawning habitat and our fish have less predation here that they would in the US. In fact once they reach about 16-18 inches there is little they could predate on them unless they sick or injured. Stay tuned I’ll get on the phone and hopefully return with something of use. Clark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sounds like some nice fishing Willi, and the style is somewhat reminiscent of our North Island spring creek fishing by the sounds of things. The river is on the plains instead of in the mountains, so it does have SOME spring creek characteristics. The fish average considerably larger than in the upstream mountain areas but there are far fewer fish. From your descriptions, your rivers have lower populations of fish than our rivers in general but your fish are considerably larger. The only streams or rivers that I know of that have fish that average in size what yours seem to, are short sections of tailwaters that are below reservoirs that have miasis (sp)shrimp in them. I know I asked you this before but have you gotten any more information as to why this would be? It seems to me that you must either have very limitted spawning or the survival of the fry or young fish is low. Willi

Response:

Sounds like some nice fishing Willi, and the style is somewhat reminiscent of our North Island spring creek fishing by the sounds of things. Clark – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I mentioned in an early post that for the first time in about a month and half, I actually saw some trout during a walk. Today is very pleasant and on my way back from picking up some electrical supplies, I stopped at the river and checked it out from the bridge. Standing on the bridge and looking down, I saw a pod of about twenty trout feeding in the pool below. (See pics on ABPF) I decided to take an hour off and do some fishing. I walked downstream to an area that frequently has some free rising fish. As I approached the area, I saw several dimples from rising fish. Although some of the rises were from fish sipping pupa, many of them were fish taking midge adults which is uncommon. The midges were huge, well relatively anyway, about a size twenty. Water levels are still down and the fish were feeding in water that varied from one to three feet in depth. They spread out in a section of river about 150 feet in length and were feeding in several distinct pods. The current is very moderate in most of this area and in the clear water I could see the fish suspended above the bottom at their feeding stations and watch them as they chased a pupa or rose to an adult. Especially when they are feeding in such thin water, the fish here are very spooky. You generally have your best chance at any given fish on the first presentation. Once you get a refusal from a fish, your next drift over it may spook it and put down the whole pod. I tied on a Griffith’s Gnat and crept into position. I started working the first fish, got a refusal on the third cast and moved on to the next one. The next fish I worked took on about the fourth cast. I landed it, slid it onto a shelf of ice that remained in the shady area where I was standing and took a picture. See ABPF The commotion of the fish put down the rest of that pod of fish. I moved upstream to the next group. There appeared to be a better fish feeding along the opposite bank, just upstream from a large boulder. Since I usually can only get one fish from a pod, if that, I decided to target that fish. The cast was across several different current seams and getting a good drift was difficult. A dozen casts later, I got the fly where it needed to be and got the fish, another Rainbow a couple of inches bigger and much fatter. Again the rest of that pod of fish was put down. I had time to hit one more area. There was a single fish feeding in the head of this run. The fish feeding in this area are usually much easier. The faster current gives them less time to survey your fly and broken surface makes your errors less noticeable. Several casts later, I finally got a good drift and hooked the fish. It was another Rainbow about the size of the first, around 15/16 inches. Time to go home and do some electric repairs. I was very glad to see the condition of the fish. All were in good shape. We had a mild Winter this year which helps the trout. Early fish after a hard Winter are often very skinny from Winter’s stress. For the next several weeks it will take several days in a row of warm temperatures, like we had recently, to get the fish moving. By mid March, the Olives will start. Willi

Response:

I mentioned in an early post that for the first time in about a month and half, I actually saw some trout during a walk. Today is very pleasant and on my way back from picking up some electrical supplies, I stopped at the river and checked it out from the bridge. Standing on the bridge and looking down, I saw a pod of about twenty trout feeding in the pool below. (See pics on ABPF) I decided to take an hour off and do some fishing. I walked downstream to an area that frequently has some free rising fish. As I approached the area, I saw several dimples from rising fish. Although some of the rises were from fish sipping pupa, many of them were fish taking midge adults which is uncommon. The midges were huge, well relatively anyway, about a size twenty. Water levels are still down and the fish were feeding in water that varied from one to three feet in depth. They spread out in a section of river about 150 feet in length and were feeding in several distinct pods. The current is very moderate in most of this area and in the clear water I could see the fish suspended above the bottom at their feeding stations and watch them as they chased a pupa or rose to an adult. Especially when they are feeding in such thin water, the fish here are very spooky. You generally have your best chance at any given fish on the first presentation. Once you get a refusal from a fish, your next drift over it may spook it and put down the whole pod. I tied on a Griffith’s Gnat and crept into position. I started working the first fish, got a refusal on the third cast and moved on to the next one. The next fish I worked took on about the fourth cast. I landed it, slid it onto a shelf of ice that remained in the shady area where I was standing and took a picture. See ABPF The commotion of the fish put down the rest of that pod of fish. I moved upstream to the next group. There appeared to be a better fish feeding along the opposite bank, just upstream from a large boulder. Since I usually can only get one fish from a pod, if that, I decided to target that fish. The cast was across several different current seams and getting a good drift was difficult. A dozen casts later, I got the fly where it needed to be and got the fish, another Rainbow a couple of inches bigger and much fatter. Again the rest of that pod of fish was put down. I had time to hit one more area. There was a single fish feeding in the head of this run. The fish feeding in this area are usually much easier. The faster current gives them less time to survey your fly and broken surface makes your errors less noticeable. Several casts later, I finally got a good drift and hooked the fish. It was another Rainbow about the size of the first, around 15/16 inches. Time to go home and do some electric repairs. I was very glad to see the condition of the fish. All were in good shape. We had a mild Winter this year which helps the trout. Early fish after a hard Winter are often very skinny from Winter’s stress. For the next several weeks it will take several days in a row of warm temperatures, like we had recently, to get the fish moving. By mid March, the Olives will start. Willi

Response:

Question:

I usually go for the "bottle of beer" fly, and hope and pray the water clears up … cheers, edwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – which fly would you recommend straight after a heavy downpour of rain with the river still running brown for salmon in Scotland

Response:

Oh I would not hesitate to use steelhead flies for Atlantic salmon fishing, that was not what I meant.  I meant using things like Griffiths Gnats, beetles or ants or similar things, is a complete waste of time for Atlantic salmon on spawning runs, which is the only time they are fished for in Scotland.  Fishing for immature fish, ( parr etc ), which would take "naturals",  is not done at all. Worms are invariably more successful in any case.  A large bunch of lobworms on a large hook will generally take far more salmon than any fly, especially under flood conditions, when the river is high and brown, and even when low and clear for that matter.  In many places worming is allowed under certain ( usually flood ) conditions. Fly-fishing is not always the most successful method for any given fish, or set of conditions, in fact, barring salmonids generally, it rarely is. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

I am wondering what type of experiences people have had fishing smallmouth in the Quetico in early September.  We have a group who has gone on several spring trips thinking about a fall trip.  Several of us are fly fishermen, so in particular, I’m wondering if the fish use shallow areas this time of year or if they begin to go deep. Thanks Peter Jonas Iron Mountain, MI

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I am wondering what type of experiences people have had fishing smallmouth in the Quetico in early September.  We have a group who has gone on several spring trips thinking about a fall trip.  Several of us are fly fishermen, so in particular, I’m wondering if the fish use shallow areas this time of year or if they begin to go deep.

        They are still deep in early Sept. Don’t forget they don’t care about the air temp., they care about the water temp. And by the end of Aug. the water is as warm there as it gets. Mornings and evenings might still be okay though. But otherwise think late Sept., early Oct. tgb

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I’m wondering if the fish use shallow areas this time of year or if they begin to go deep.

We went in last September (early) into the northern part of the park and did fairly well on smallmouth catching quite a few in the 17-19" class.  Most of them were shallow to about 8′

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Question:

Hi, The subject of this thread is not just about wildlife – I’ve been entangled both in the river (the Waitahanui River, Taupo, NZ) and on the river bank, tripping and nearly breaking my rod let alone my head – though no doubt there are some who would classify me as "wildlife" too – an ex-wife or two et alia. Regards John — J. W. RICH 144 Gillies Ave, Epsom, Auckland, New Zealand ph/fax.  64-9-623-2975 website http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Jungle/3675/ or      http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~jw.rich     To purchase an E-copy of "Timber Geodesic Domes" by John Rich go to:         http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~jw.rich/promo.htm Some more pics of my domes are displayed at the following URL.         http://domegroup.org/domehomepics.html#johnrich

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By the way is their any reason your name is the same as the BS1776  meaning British Standard 1776 and is the minimum standard that condoms have to attain, or is that just a coincidence ? TL MC

I wish it were so.  This shouting ninny was one load that needed to be tarped! WF

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To deny that we break off leaders on rocks and on fish is pretty stupid and leaves me to question who the PETA members are, really.

Shwaggy?!?!  I deny therefore I am?  What kind of logic is that?  I haven’t been to the moon therefore I am an astronaut? Warren People for the Eating of Tasty Animals

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"To fish is human, to eat the fish the only justifiable reason for the act". I assume you only have sex with your wife when she is ovulating. — Charlie…

Maybe if he had sex more often, he wouldn’t be woried about eating every slimy thing he catches. Chris Fleitman Running for cover.

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THE LEADING CAUSE OF LIFE THREATENING WILDLIFE ENTANGLEMENT IN THE WORLD IS DISCARDED FISHING LINE ACCORDING TO THE CENTER FOR MARINE CONSERVATION IN WASHINGTON DC.

The above statement, even if it’s true, in no way supports your subject line, "DISCARDED FISHING LINE LEADING CAUSE OF WILDLIFE DEATH". You need a lesson in logic, but I doubt you’d get anything from it. bock Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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: To fish is human…to release divine. [deleted] I guess if you repeat it enough times it becomes truth?

Hold on Jon…I’m getting it now and WHart *is* right…. To fish is human… OK But: to release is an err… But: to err is human… But: Human was created in the [divine] image of God… Means: to err is divine… Therefore: to release is divine. But he could have just saved time by: To C&R fish is Human, to forgive divine. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Maybe if he had sex more often, he wouldn’t be woried about eating every slimy thing he catches.

What do you mean ? I get fucked here every day and I still like to eat fish. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Maybe if he had sex more often, he wouldn’t be woried about eating every slimy thing he catches. What do you mean ? I get fucked here every day and I still like to eat fish.

You slay me, Tim ;^) It’s clear that whatever had crawled up your ass a couple of months ago crawled out and left behind your latent sense of humour. Good show! /daytripper

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[major snippage] Will you deny the lead accusation too OJ ? again, because it was posted on usenet, it must be true?  if it is, we should work on reducing our losses of lead sinkers, etc.  but just saying some scientist (who may not exist) says lead is killing lots of loons is imo suspect.  i certainly hope it’s not true, because unlike some posters i actually enjoy watching birds while i’m fishing… and loons are some of my favorites (puffins top the list though).

As I recall (this was discussed in this group roughly a year ago) the NH Fish and Wildlife folks recovered something like 16 dead loon carcasses over some period of time, and (again from memory) around two thirds of them were found to have perished from lead poisoning. The small lead sinkers used in fresh water fishing apparently fall in the size range of small stones that the loons swallow to facilitate digestion. Presumably, some degree of extrapolation of the sample size led these folks to their conclusion as applied to the entire population, and thus the small lead sinkers are to be banned. Seems reasonable to me, as non-toxic alternatives already exist at fair prices… A friend and I were fishing a favorite NH pond a few years ago and we watched Ma and Pa loon teaching their three kids how to fly. It was hilarious seeing the little fellows taking turns frantically scurrying along the water for fifty yards at a time trying to get airborne… /daytripper

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THE LEADING CAUSE OF LIFE THREATENING WILDLIFE ENTANGLEMENT IN THE WORLD IS DISCARDED FISHING LINE ACCORDING TO THE CENTER FOR MARINE CONSERVATION IN WASHINGTON DC.

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THE LEADING CAUSE OF LIFE THREATENING WILDLIFE ENTANGLEMENT IN THE WORLD IS DISCARDED FISHING LINE ACCORDING TO THE CENTER FOR MARINE CONSERVATION IN WASHINGTON DC.

Must be a full moon.  This PETA freak comes out of the wood work whenever the dung beetles are hatching.  BS is an appropriate abbreviation for this screwball.  I wonder if he wears leather shoe soles, petroleum derived synthetics which contributes to the world’s pollution, or natural rubber from plantations carved from the heart of virgin rain forests.  As long as he gets his and feels good about hisself! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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According to a study published in a recent issue of Scientific American, the leading cause of wildlife entanglement (not to be confused with INTENTIONAL entrapment) is indeed discarded fishing line….over and above that of discarded six-pack holders. Additionally, the leading cause of oil pollution is the improper disposal – by RESIDENTIAL users – of motor oil….i.e. your car and lawnmower.  Whereas outboard motor oil is partially combusted and inboards have a closed oil system. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but no one has a right to be

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bULLsHIT1776 YELLS again: <<THE LEADING CAUSE OF LIFE THREATENING WILDLIFE ENTANGLEMENT IN THE WORLD IS DISCARDED FISHING LINE ACCORDING TO THE CENTER FOR MARINE CONSERVATION IN WASHINGTON DC. Hmmmmm.  I have never seen or heard of a fly fisherman discarding fishing line.  Doesn’t happen, lady.  Perhaps you’ve cross posted this crap to the wrong group?   Dave LaCourse

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THE LEADING CAUSE OF LIFE THREATENING WILDLIFE ENTANGLEMENT IN THE WORLD IS DISCARDED FISHING LINE ACCORDING TO THE CENTER FOR MARINE CONSERVATION IN WASHINGTON DC.

Bullshit. The leading cause of wildlife entanglement are the nets specifically made for this very purpose. You are shouting again.  By the way is their any reason your name is the same as the BS1776  meaning British Standard 1776 and is the minimum standard that condoms have to attain, or is that just a coincidence ? TL MC

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Dear BS1766 Next time you are in the vicinity of a Flyfisherman, please ask the aforementioned Flyfisherman to strangle you with any about-to-be discarded line.

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According to a study published in a recent issue of Scientific American, the leading cause of wildlife entanglement (not to be confused with INTENTIONAL entrapment) is indeed discarded fishing line….over and above that of discarded six-pack holders.

Not to be unnecessarily dense (especially since I haven’t read the article), but that sounds sort of intuitive.   Who is really surprised that the leading cause of entanglement is stuff you can get tangled in?   Besides fishing line, what were some of the other discarded materials in question? Were there any indications as to different sources of the discarded line (e.g. recreational worm dunkers vs. commercial long liners)? I have to say that the rivers, lakes, etc. where I’ve fished are remarkable devoid of discarded line from recreational fishermen.   Two exceptions are the Susquehanna (MD. portion) and the Salmon River (NY).   The great number of bait fishermen on the Susquehanna unfortunately include some of the worst environmentally-insensitive pigs to ever wet a hook.   I think their attitude is "if it sinks out of sight, it ain’t litterin’."   In some heavily fished holes on the Salmon, it sometimes seems as though the river bottom is 50% monofilament. Joe F.

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You are shouting again.  By the way is their any reason your name is the same as the BS1776  meaning British Standard 1776 and is the minimum standard that condoms have to attain, or is that just a coincidence ?

Which reminds me of something I saw on a condom machine in the gents toilet of an English pub a long time ago. In large red letters on the front of the machine it said " Made to British Standard 1776"  below this some wag had written in large black letters with a marker pen, "So was the Titanic". TL MC

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B.S. wrote a bunch of b.s. Listen folks I know I abused my hearing with 30 years of shooting magnum pistols, but you don’t have to YELL! Big Dale

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[deleted] Must be a full moon.  This PETA freak comes out of the wood work whenever the dung beetles are hatching.  BS is an appropriate abbreviation for this screwball.  I wonder if he wears leather shoe soles, petroleum derived synthetics which contributes to the world’s pollution, or natural rubber from plantations carved from the heart of virgin rain forests.  As long as he gets his and feels good about hisself!

You guys are being ignorant buttholes, IMNSFHO. To deny that we break off leaders on rocks and on fish is pretty stupid and leaves me to question who the PETA members are, really. Will you deny the lead accusation too OJ ? To fish is human….To release Divine!

"To fish is human, to eat the fish the only justifiable reason for the act". Your pal and fellow ignorant butthole, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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0] : THE LEADING CAUSE OF LIFE THREATENING WILDLIFE ENTANGLEMENT IN THE : WORLD IS : DISCARDED FISHING LINE ACCORDING TO THE CENTER FOR MARINE : CONSERVATION IN : WASHINGTON DC. : : Must be a full moon.  This PETA freak comes out of the wood work : whenever the dung beetles are hatching.  BS is an appropriate : abbreviation for this screwball.  I wonder if he wears leather shoe : soles, petroleum derived synthetics which contributes to the world’s : pollution, or natural rubber from plantations carved from the heart of : virgin rain forests.  As long as he gets his and feels good about : hisself! : — : Wayne : To fish is human….To release Divine! FWIW I found and have in my collection a western oriole nest made entirely of discarded monofilament. I found this near the E. Walker river near Bridgeport, California. It showed every sign of having been used successfully. This is not at all to say I endorse discarding the stuff. I remove it when I find it, including that nest. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

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Remove your head from your arse tbone, you’ll have better fishing that way Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys are being ignorant buttholes, IMNSFHO. To deny that we break off leaders on rocks and on fish is pretty stupid and leaves me to question who the PETA members are, really. Will you deny the lead accusation too OJ ? To fish is human….To release Divine! "To fish is human, to eat the fish the only justifiable reason for the act". Your pal and fellow ignorant butthole, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Remove your head from your arse tbone, you’ll have better fishing that way

May be…but at least it’s a short cast. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] Must be a full moon.  This PETA freak comes out of the wood work whenever the dung beetles are hatching.  BS is an appropriate abbreviation for this screwball.  I wonder if he wears leather shoe soles, petroleum derived synthetics which contributes to the world’s pollution, or natural rubber from plantations carved from the heart of virgin rain forests.  As long as he gets his and feels good about hisself! You guys are being ignorant buttholes, IMNSFHO. To deny that we break off leaders on rocks and on fish is pretty stupid and leaves me to question who the PETA members are, really.

nobody’s saying we don’t lose gear, but i for one question this posters credibility and if what he says is in fact based on truth. the problem with the original post was the broad stroke.  fishing line can mean a lot of things, little clips of tippet, balls of tangled mono, mile long lost drift nets, lost gillnets, and other commercial gear lost that continues fishing and killing for a long time.  i do not condone people littering, but including sportfishermen with lost commercial gear is misleading and does not really present the whole truth.  yes, fishing line does entangle fish… but i’d like more info.  what percentage of the total is lost commercial fishing nets?  what percentage is based on sportfishing litter?  plus, i don’t believe everything i read on the internet.  anybody with any agenda can say anything.  to me, his original statement very well might be a large pile of bs. Will you deny the lead accusation too OJ ?

again, because it was posted on usenet, it must be true?  if it is, we should work on reducing our losses of lead sinkers, etc.  but just saying some scientist (who may not exist) says lead is killing lots of loons is imo suspect.  i certainly hope it’s not true, because unlike some posters i actually enjoy watching birds while i’m fishing… and loons are some of my favorites (puffins top the list though). now, give me lots of dna evidence, blood stains, etc… and i’ll reconsider <G. chris Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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THE LEADING CAUSE OF LIFE THREATENING WILDLIFE ENTANGLEMENT IN THE WORLD IS DISCARDED FISHING LINE ACCORDING TO THE CENTER FOR MARINE CONSERVATION IN WASHINGTON DC.

Besides being misleading and irrelevant… this statement is probably totally untrue.   Ghost nets (those broken off or otherwise lost by commercial fishermen) are undoubtedly the largest cause of life threatening wildlife entanglement (if fish are counted as wildlife). The number of fish lost to "ghost nets" is staggering, but there is no way to get an exact count because it all happens "invisibly" beneath the surface. Besides, the turkey who posted this nonsense is a mindless spammer. I found it on the rec.outdoor.fishing group also. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yeah HF, I remember you telling me that a week or two ago… I figure either you’re a Gen-U-Wine masochist or you REALLY like to drive. Wait a minute, you’re hosting the dangdest convention of nitwits and yahoos since the 1979 Star Trek convention… OK, so you’re a masochist. But for me: 1. I HATE to drive. For 14 years I averaged 50-70k per year on the job. Don’t wanna do long drives unless I have to. I even make my wife drive when we go somewhere together in town. 2. I LIKE to fly. Hey, I’m fishing around for some sky time here! 3. When YOU drove it, there was probably no posted speed limit, and your biggest traffic concern was getting the horses out of the way of your ‘32 Coupe, since you were going close to 100! Ah, the joys of a misspent youth… Mike

It was a 35 Ford Coupe.  And it wasn’t far from 100, but on the high side! Actually, it got a lot easier since Kentucky finished the Interstate. Our oldest daughter was a Professor at the University of Georgia at Athens for a while, and we made the trip several times recently.   I just can’t talk my wife into making those trips in the airplane. She keeps insisting that it would be fine, but she has to be BACK on time!   HF

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I just can’t talk my wife into making those trips in the airplane. She keeps insisting that it would be fine, but she has to be BACK on time!

I suppose suggesting you borrow, rent or buy a Mooney is out of the question! Warren

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I just can’t talk my wife into making those trips in the airplane. She keeps insisting that it would be fine, but she has to be BACK on time! I suppose suggesting you borrow, rent or buy a Mooney is out of the question! Warren

It doesn’t have anything to do with the particular airplane.  She can drive, but I am the only pilot!  Need I say more … HF

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Mike, Mike, Mike, You’ll have to do better than that. 1. I HATE to drive. For 14 years I averaged 50-70k per year on the job. Don’t wanna do long drives unless I have to. I even make my wife drive when we go somewhere together in town.

So, bring her along.  And let her drive.  Tell her it shows her just how much you trust her.  My family came last year and plans to come this year. Go to sleep as soon as you hit interstate and when you wake up, you’ll be there.  "0" minutes travel time. 2. I LIKE to fly. Hey, I’m fishing around for some sky time here!

When you get there, you’ll fly.  Guaranteed. 3. When YOU drove it, there was probably no posted speed limit, and your biggest traffic concern was getting the horses out of the way of your ‘32 Coupe, since you were going close to 100! Ah, the joys of a misspent youth…

Possibly.  But the speed limit now is at least 70 and most likely 75 so there’s not that much difference.  Besides, you’ll be asleep and the wife’s driving so what do you care?  :-) Next incredibly lame argument? John Stricker — why I had to put it in.  If one of you real humans wants to contact me: "I didn’t spend all these years getting to the top of the food chain just to become a vegetarian"

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Yeah HF, I remember you telling me that a week or two ago… I figure either you’re a Gen-U-Wine masochist or you REALLY like to drive. Wait a minute, you’re hosting the dangdest convention of nitwits and yahoos since the 1979 Star Trek convention… OK, so you’re a masochist. But for me: 1. I HATE to drive. For 14 years I averaged 50-70k per year on the job. Don’t wanna do long drives unless I have to. I even make my wife drive when we go somewhere together in town. 2. I LIKE to fly. Hey, I’m fishing around for some sky time here! 3. When YOU drove it, there was probably no posted speed limit, and your biggest traffic concern was getting the horses out of the way of your ‘32 Coupe, since you were going close to 100! Ah, the joys of a misspent youth… Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since it’s too far to drive for a 3 day weekend, and since I’m too poor to own/rent/fly myself (not to mention I’m only a wannabe pilot so far)(oh-oh, did I mention the unmentionable?), my choices for P’ville ‘99 are to hitchhike, fly the "big iron" (I’m checking prices this weekend), or my preferred means of travel would be to catch a ride and share expenses with someone who’ll be passing through the Atlanta area on their way there… Soooo…… Too far to drive for a three day weekend!  I used to commute to Atlanta from Pinckneyville.   HF

Mike Patterson   –   Deacon Blues AMA #598863  EAA #523920  NRA #BVS2395T  ICQ #7161589 < http://www.mindspring.com/~mikepatterson "Sharing the things I know and love with those of my kind…" Humans please ignore the following- More SPAM bait: http://barnstormers.dyn.ml.org/email.html

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Since it’s too far to drive for a 3 day weekend, and since I’m too poor to own/rent/fly myself (not to mention I’m only a wannabe pilot so far)(oh-oh, did I mention the unmentionable?), my choices for P’ville ‘99 are to hitchhike, fly the "big iron" (I’m checking prices this weekend), or my preferred means of travel would be to catch a ride and share expenses with someone who’ll be passing through the Atlanta area on their way there… Soooo……

Too far to drive for a three day weekend!  I used to commute to Atlanta from Pinckneyville.   HF

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Since it’s too far to drive for a 3 day weekend, and since I’m too poor to own/rent/fly myself (not to mention I’m only a wannabe pilot so far)(oh-oh, did I mention the unmentionable?), my choices for P’ville ‘99 are to hitchhike, fly the "big iron" (I’m checking prices this weekend), or my preferred means of travel would be to catch a ride and share expenses with someone who’ll be passing through the Atlanta area on their way there… Soooo…… Is anyone in this forum planning to make the pilgrimage, have need of a seat polisher, beer holder and extra wallet, AND willing to stop and pick up a hitchhiker somewhere around Atlanta? Mike "I make long run-on sentences so I can save all the periods to use at the end…" Patterson PS maybe you better check out my web page first, especially if you’ns be a Dimocrat. OTOH, that could make it MORE fun, eh? Mike Patterson   –   Deacon Blues AMA #598863  EAA #523920  NRA #BVS2395T  ICQ #7161589 < http://www.mindspring.com/~mikepatterson "Sharing the things I know and love with those of my kind…" Humans please ignore the following- More SPAM bait: http://barnstormers.dyn.ml.org/email.html

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Cut the crap Mike… You Southern boys are always "poor mouthing" your lot in life. Checking your website, your about to sell a house? $116, 000 should get you a round trip ticket to anyplace of your choosing, unless you drop by the casinos here in Kansas City ! Not owning a plane, certainly provides you with even more disposable income than us owner types. Checking with Expedia/Flight Wizard, a commercial round trip flight can be had for as little as $236.00 RIGHT NOW. See…  http://expedia.msn.com/daily/home/default.hts So, book it and rest easy. If your good with a wrench, book one way and maybe HF will keep you busy attending to the needs of the "Red Lady". He has plenty of "cot space’ for the homeless. Just bring your own cot. High Flyer IS touchy about snoozing on his. Don’t ask how I know.  <g Bob – already signed up for P’ville 99 – U. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Since it’s too far to drive for a 3 day weekend, and since I’m too poor to own/rent/fly myself (not to mention I’m only a wannabe pilot so far)(oh-oh, did I mention the unmentionable?), my choices for P’ville ‘99 are to hitchhike, fly the "big iron" (I’m checking prices this weekend), or my preferred means of travel would be to catch a ride and share expenses with someone who’ll be passing through the Atlanta area on their way there… Mike Patterson  

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Question:

Howell Raines’ great book "Fly Fishing the Midlife Crisis" is on sale for only $5.99 at www.bargainbookwarehouse.com. In the stores it sells for $22. I don’t think they have any other fishing books.

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"Fly Fishing Through the Midlife Crisis" I agree that it is an excellent read, and I’m not even at mid-life yet…Clint – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Howell Raines’ great book "Fly Fishing the Midlife Crisis" is on sale for only $5.99 at www.bargainbookwarehouse.com. In the stores it sells for $22. I don’t think they have any other fishing books.

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Question:

.. the problem is with the fonts in netscape … it seems to pick up a wierd font when setting it up.. especially the earlier netscapes. go into the fonts list and find the offending font and get rid of it, netscape then picks another … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – keyboarded:

Question:

To all, I am brand new to the sport and know I’ll be doing this with friends and family the rest of my life. Earlier this weekend, I caughtmy first trout, a little 5-inch ranbow stocked in Jackson Creek below the Yellowood Dam in Brown County just west of Nashville. I’ve been out to the Brookville Dam tailwater once, but didn’t do well there; probably my inexperience and poor fishing technique. The IDNR stocks trout in several other locations, especially up north closer to Lake Michigan. Anyone out there have experience fly fishing for trout in Indiana? I could use some suggestions on the best locations and what wet and dry patterns are most successful around here. Thanks in advance for sharing the info with a newbie! I promise I’ll return the favor someday. Dave McCarty

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There is a good flyshop in Indianapolis (called Flymasters I believe), that helped put me on fish when I was visiting my wife’s parents near Terra Haute! They can help you a lot with a list of place to fish!

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I started out by reading the Orvis Guide to Fly Fishing.  You can find it at any Orvis dealership and at most bookshops that have a large sports section. Good luck, Todd Etchieson

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Quoting MarkPuch<mpuch from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly     I am just starting to fly fish and I am looking for books I can     read on fly fishing lakes and rivers.  Also on how to tie flies.  If    you know of any books please let me know. Mark – I just picked up and excellant book for learning fly tying.  Its "The Art of Fly Tying" by Johnvan Vliet and is published by The Hunting & Fishing Library.  Cost was about $24.  It concentrates on techniques rather than patterns.  Starts with tools and materials then tells how to tie tails, wings, boddies, hackle…. then goes on to general how to on streamers, nymphs, drys, wets, terrestrials, bass & pikle flys.  If you learn the techniques then you can tie any of the patterns.  Since I’m a beginner tyer, looks like it will help me a bunch. Rainbow V 1.17.5 for Delphi – Registered

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The Art of Fly Tying is excellent! Also, you might want to pick up any book by Dave Hughes. He not only tells you how he does it, so you can learn from his mistakes and victories, but also tells it in the most easily read format and style of any fly fishing author (and believe it or not, I have read most of them). Good luck, and remember the most important thing to learning about fly fishing and fly tying, is to HAVE FUN! Redside2

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Quoting MarkPuch<mpuch from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly     I am just starting to fly fish and I am looking for books I can     read on fly fishing lakes and rivers.  Also on how to tie flies.  If    you know of any books please let me know. Mark – I just picked up and excellant book for learning fly tying.  Its "The Art of Fly Tying" by Johnvan Vliet and is published by The Hunting & Fishing Library.  Cost was about $24.  It concentrates on techniques rather than patterns.  Starts with tools and materials then tells how to tie tails, wings, boddies, hackle…. then goes on to general how to on streamers, nymphs, drys, wets, terrestrials, bass & pikle flys.  If you learn the techniques then you can tie any of the patterns.  Since I’m a beginner tyer, looks like it will help me a bunch. Rainbow V 1.17.5 for Delphi – Registered

I would like to second that endorsement.  Vliet’s photographs illustrate techniques very well, and he has more than enough patterns to keep you busy.  He also gives instructions on how to tie parachutes and other techniques which are too arcane to discussed in smaller tomes like Dick Stewart’s "Universal Fly Tying Guide".  Get the ring bound edition if you can.  It’s pages lie flat when you prop the book up on your kitchen table.  Oops, I meant tying bench. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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Pick up a copy of the Curtis Creek Manifesto by Sheridan Anderson. I bought it when I started fly fishing in 1976 and still get a kick out of thumbing thru it.  It is illustrated in a cartoon manner and is one of the best beginner books out there.                                                             Good luck, Mark Heskett

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: Does anyone know if there is a rod building newsgroup? If not, does this : newsgroup handle most of the rod building questions? And I’m sorry about your name…it must have been a rough childhood.<g Yeah, it was fun. And I defy anyone to come up with something new I havn’t heard

Takes me back to my childhood Bruce, my older cousin always called me sweet pea. What type of rod are you going to build.  When I first started fly fishing You could build a rod for $25.  My favorite rod is a Fenwick Ferralite fiberglass rod constructed with Fuji single foot guides.  It’s made for falling in the mountain streams.  When I fall which is a couple of times a year, I don’t want to worry about screrwing up an expensive rod and reel. I just throw it as I go down so I don’t land on it and do permanent damage.  A Medalist reel has stood up to the task, although I have had to do some work on it with a pair of long nose pliers.  I always thought I would make a bamboo rod some day, but the older I get the less ambitious I am. Ernie Harrison

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ha, think your names were rough! try jason "Bever" (Beaver) I figure it could be worse, My sister has it worse than I do! ha

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      I am just starting to fly fish and I am looking for books I can read on fly fishing lakes and rivers.  Also on how to tie flies.  If you know of any books please let me know. live psychic line                  =  date line 1-900-659-9966 ext #1199           =  1-900-835-5182 ext #1193 3.95 per minute                    =  2.49 per minute Mark Puch

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