Question:

Yeah, count me in you shadster! Opie needs all the hats he can get, Chris, because he doesn’t have any hair. Sign him up for a half dozen. If you’re doing t-shirts sign him up for another half dozen XXL to cover his gut.

Damn, that hurt to the scalp.  Can’t get to the bone through all these layers o’ fat! Opie  –Planning for the Past–

Response:

Hi All, Maybe some would want a hat even if they can’t make it? — Bill Kiene

Ain’t that what this is all about?  I hope I’m not expected to show-up to receive my hat.  Hat just don’t seem worth the price of air-fare. Opie  –Planning for the Past–

Response:

I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so).

PC, I’ll need three. Danl Still can’t believe I’m contemplating flying somewhere for the express purpose of shadding!!!! AAAAArrrrrrrggghhhh…..

Response:

Still can’t believe I’m contemplating flying somewhere for the express purpose of shadding!!!! AAAAArrrrrrrggghhhh…..

So you’re actually contemplating coming to the shad fishout, Dan’l? Cool! BTW, these are American Shad, not the puny, slimey Hickory Shad you remember from your misspent youth. There are also striped bass in the American River. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Yeah, count me in you shadster!

Opie needs all the hats he can get, Chris, because he doesn’t have any hair. Sign him up for a half dozen. If you’re doing t-shirts sign him up for another half dozen XXL to cover his gut. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so).

Yo! Sign me up for a hat, please. /daytripper

Response:

embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.

Count me in for one of the caps. Big Dale

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so). The more I get done, the cheaper each one becomes.  Let me know if you will want one and I will run a total here at my homestead.  Legal Disclaimer — remember this is for an estimate you will not be contractually held to receiving an Official Clave Fishing Hat if you ask for one at this point.  I just need rough numbers. —- Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

As requested earlier, I’d like one! –Walt

Response:

I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so).

Yeah, I need another fishing hat like Custer needed another Indian (oops, Native American).   But sure, put me down for one. Joe F.

Response:

As requested earlier, I’d like one!

Me too. — Charlie…

Response:

Hi All, Maybe some would want a hat even if they can’t make it? — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so). The more I get done, the cheaper each one becomes.  Let me know if you will want one and I will run a total here at my homestead.  Legal Disclaimer — remember this is for an estimate you will not be contractually held to receiving an Official Clave Fishing Hat if you ask for one at this point. I just need rough numbers. —- Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

Response:

As requested earlier, I’d like one! Me too.

Ditto. Wolfgang

Response:

Me too… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Maybe some would want a hat even if they can’t make it? — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so). The more I get done, the cheaper each one becomes.  Let me know if you will want one and I will run a total here at my homestead.  Legal Disclaimer — remember this is for an estimate you will not be contractually held to receiving an Official Clave Fishing Hat if you ask for one at this point. I just need rough numbers. —- Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

Response:

I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so). The more I get done, the cheaper each one becomes.  Let me know if you will want one and I will run a total here at my homestead.  Legal Disclaimer — remember this is for an estimate you will not be contractually held to receiving an Official Clave Fishing Hat if you ask for one at this point.  I just need rough numbers. —- Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

Response:

Yeah, count me in you shadster! Opie  –Planning for the Past–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am doing some preliminary investigation into embroidering some high quality fishing hats to memorialize the Sacramento Shad Fish-Out Clave. What I need for now is the approximate amount of hats required for this Clave.  So far it looks like we have about 10 – 12? Roffians signed up, but I know that some of the non-participants will want a hat as a souvenir (or at least I think so). The more I get done, the cheaper each one becomes.  Let me know if you will want one and I will run a total here at my homestead.  Legal Disclaimer — remember this is for an estimate you will not be contractually held to receiving an Official Clave Fishing Hat if you ask for one at this point. I just need rough numbers. —- Padishar Creel "Man is the best computer we can put aboard a spacecraft…and the only one that can be mass produced with unskilled labor." –  Wernher von Braun

Response:

Question:

The reason people fish varies from person to person and also seems to change over time. I know it has for me. When I was younger, I used to fish with an intensity that shut out everything around me in my quest to get just one more fish. Very goal oriented. Over time, I’ve become much more relaxed, especially on my home waters. I spend much of my time walking and observing, seeking a small piece of harmony with the nature world to replace the separation that is forced upon us by our overly busy modern lives. The splash of a trout chasing a caddis. The rich aroma of pine. The warmth of the sun on cool morning. The greenness of a forest in early Spring. The pungent taste of a wild raspberry.   Simple pleasures for a simple man. Willi "the crybaby" Loehman

Response:

You get no points for catching me in a spelling error ( as noted here somewhere english is a third language for engineers ).   It’s getting bad so I may have to use Word for email.  I don’t understand the Tiger reference. I was in North Carolina once driving from Ft Rucker to DC in 1967.  Nothing wrong with it but time and fate have conspired to keep from ever going back. Still time and who knows. BJC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – people ( if you want to include polititions as people ).    hope i don’t appear to be a spelling cop, but shouldn’t that be "politishuns"?    incidentally, bjc, was that you in the tiger mascot suit at this year’s unc-clemson game?    wayno

Response:

people ( if you want to include polititions as people ).

    hope i don’t appear to be a spelling cop, but shouldn’t that be "politishuns"?     incidentally, bjc, was that you in the tiger mascot suit at this year’s unc-clemson game?     wayno

Response:

just love a guy who fishes.  My extensive fan club and appearances in leading fashion magazines is testament to that.\ Seriously. The bitches dig it.

Where the F*** is Forty when you need him? Put down the chainsaw and listen to me. It’s time for us to join in the fight.

Response:

Good post,  Good to see roff getting back to ideas and less about events and people ( if you want to include polititions as people ). The older I get the more I remember the line " God does not subtract from your alotted time on earth those hours spent fishing"  ( Idon’t know the source).  Any way I am trying to make up for lost time now.  I cant on one hand the sermons I have heard that did me more good than a Sunday morning on a good stream. BJC

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Willi "the crybaby" Loehman

Response:

Thanks for the post Willi. I think that the fact FF provides me with so many alternative ways to spend time while still FFing is part of the draw. Sometimes I have to remember to continue fishing before my time in the woods is gone for the day. Danl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The reason people fish varies from person to person and also seems to change over time. I know it has for me. When I was younger, I used to fish with an intensity that shut out everything around me in my quest to get just one more fish. Very goal oriented. Over time, I’ve become much more relaxed, especially on my home waters. I spend much of my time walking and observing, seeking a small piece of harmony with the nature world to replace the separation that is forced upon us by our overly busy modern lives. The splash of a trout chasing a caddis. The rich aroma of pine. The warmth of the sun on cool morning. The greenness of a forest in early Spring. The pungent taste of a wild raspberry. Simple pleasures for a simple man. Willi "the crybaby" Loehman

Response:

Seriously. The bitches dig it. -Muskie Sick’em #2. I expect he means actual female dogs. What’s the PC thing to call them these days? Neuticle challenged canines?

Charlie, I’m surprised at you. The phrase "neuticle challenged" is a typical oppressive male patriarchical concept, implying that the absence of testicles (or Neuticles, as the case may be) presents a "challenge." All members of ROFF who don’t possess either testicles or neuticles demand an apology. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Charlie, I’m surprised at you. The phrase "neuticle challenged" is a typical oppressive male patriarchical concept, implying that the absence of testicles (or Neuticles, as the case may be) presents a "challenge."

Crap, now I’m going to have to get that taken off all the street and place names around here. — Charlie…

Response:

Seriously. The bitches dig it. Sick’em #2.

What do you want me to do, cough on him ? — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Seriously. The bitches dig it. -Muskie Sick’em #2.

I expect he means actual female dogs. What’s the PC thing to call them these days? Neuticle challenged canines? — Charlie…

Response:

it’s called growing old.  :) Simple pleasures for a simple man. Willi "the crybaby" Loehman I knew I had arrived at that age, one day when fishing the Boyne.

        lovely, ol man; you write even better than you tie streamers and nits.         thanks wayno

Response:

There are lots of good things about *growing* old, but only a few about *being* old (and I can’t remember what any of those are<g).

Well, just consider the alternative. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

There are lots of good things about *growing* old, but only a few about *being* old (and I can’t remember what any of those are<g). Well, just consider the alternative.

*That’s* the one! — Charlie…

Response:

\ Willi, well, I agree with your general ideas here.  Good post. However, doesnt anyone fish anymore for the groupies?  I know that is my main drive.  Chicks just love a guy who fishes.  My extensive fan club and appearances in leading fashion magazines is testament to that.\

Seriously. The bitches dig it. -Muskie

Response:

Seriously. The bitches dig it. -Muskie

Sick’em #2.      - Ken — "The Constitution only gives people the right to pursue happiness.  You have to catch it yourself."      -Ben Franklin

Response:

Nice story Peter,    The Sierra’s are prone to sudden storms like the one you described, that’s why I carry a light weight poncho in my vest.  Sometime the fishing gets better during the storm, but I quit if the lightening starts. ROFF’s Old Fart "Peter Charles" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I knew I had arrived at that age, one day when fishing the Boyne. Overhead the scudding clouds and patchwork sun were telling me that rain and thunder were on the way, but I kept working upstream along the forest floor, seeking little brookies to fall prey to my caddis. The sun was still dappling the streambanks when the first drops began to fall. In less than a minute, a downpour splattered throught the sodden branches and thunder reverberated throughout the forest.  The softened light turned the forest into hues of green beyond count.  The mist that arose from the warm forest floor evoked an older time of spirits and magic.  I stood under some bushes, letting the water cascade off my head and shoulders, gazing out at a  little rainbow arcing over the stream, that the peeking sun had painted on the misty rainfall.  When the thunder shower cleared, I longed for another one. In a little while, Nature obliged me once more. Peter

Response:

it’s called growing old.  :)

There are a FEW good things about it. Willi

Response:

it’s called growing old.  :) There are a FEW good things about it.

There are lots of good things about *growing* old, but only a few about *being* old (and I can’t remember what any of those are<g). — Charlie…

Response:

Are you saying we old farts no longer have sense enough to come in out of the rain? JR

That sorta sums it up – either that, or we’ve learned to take our pleasures where we find them. Peter

Response:

it’s called growing old.  :) Simple pleasures for a simple man. Willi "the crybaby" Loehman

I knew I had arrived at that age, one day when fishing the Boyne. Overhead the scudding clouds and patchwork sun were telling me that rain and thunder were on the way, but I kept working upstream along the forest floor, seeking little brookies to fall prey to my caddis. The sun was still dappling the streambanks when the first drops began to fall. In less than a minute, a downpour splattered throught the sodden branches and thunder reverberated throughout the forest.  The softened light turned the forest into hues of green beyond count.  The mist that arose from the warm forest floor evoked an older time of spirits and magic.  I stood under some bushes, letting the water cascade off my head and shoulders, gazing out at a  little rainbow arcing over the stream, that the peeking sun had painted on the misty rainfall.  When the thunder shower cleared, I longed for another one. In a little while, Nature obliged me once more. Peter

Response:

Are you saying we old farts no longer have sense enough to come in out of the rain? JR – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – it’s called growing old.  :) I knew I had arrived at that age, one day when fishing the Boyne. ..very nice vignette clipped…. When the thunder shower cleared, I longed for another one. In a little while, Nature obliged me once more. Peter

Response:

The reason people fish varies from person to person and also seems to change over time.

[snip] Well said, Willi; but go easy on those wild berries or you might end up with ‘internal rhythms’<g. — Charlie…

Response:

(me, too) However, sometimes (every day i fish) when i’ve promised to be home at a certain time and i’m pushing it, i say to myself "just one more fish and i’ll go." Then, if i catch that fish right away, i KEEP FISHING.  

<some stuff snipped <gYeah, me too. It amazing the deals I make with myself to keep from having to stop fishing.   "OK 5 more casts, and if there are no strikes, then I’m out of here.  What, that was a lousy cast! Tnat doesn’t count….I’m sure I would have had a strike if there was no drag on that drift….Shee-it! I didn’t see that neat little run on the far side of the stream…It’s just this side of that big rock where I absolutely, positively said I’d quit…but there’s a deep pool just on the other side of that rock…and there’s always fish there… And on and on… Thanks for the impressions Willi. Quick trip report: Went wild mushroom hunting yesterday. Got some chanterelles, matsutakes, boletes, lobster mushrooms, corals. Ate some. Survived.

Response:

(me, too) However, sometimes (every day i fish) when i’ve promised to be home at a certain time and i’m pushing it, i say to myself "just one more fish and i’ll go." Then, if i catch that fish right away, i KEEP FISHING.  Invevitably that’s the last fish anyway.  My favorite days are when i catch that last fish, release it, and then put my fly on the keeper and hike back to my truck without another cast.  Better to keep the promises, including the ones you make to yourself. And now back to presidential politics.  Yahoo. bruce h Before you buy.

Response:

Willi, well, I agree with your general ideas here.  Good post. However, doesnt anyone fish anymore for the groupies?  I know that is my main drive.  Chicks just love a guy who fishes.  My extensive fan club and appearances in leading fashion magazines is testament to that. Now then, where is my medication…. ewdin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The reason people fish varies from person to person and also seems to change over time. I know it has for me. When I was younger, I used to fish with an intensity that shut out everything around me in my quest to get just one more fish. Very goal oriented. Over time, I’ve become much more relaxed, especially on my home waters. I spend much of my time walking and observing, seeking a small piece of harmony with the nature world to replace the separation that is forced upon us by our overly busy modern lives. The splash of a trout chasing a caddis. The rich aroma of pine. The warmth of the sun on cool morning. The greenness of a forest in early Spring. The pungent taste of a wild raspberry. Simple pleasures for a simple man. Willi "the crybaby" Loehman

Response:

Question:

My physical intuition, such as it is, tells me that a short, stiff mono buttsection tied to the flyline with a nail knot or needle knot is the best rig. Anything "floppy" like a loop-to-loop connection is going to spoil the smooth transfer and dissipation of energy. Completely wrong, I’m afraid. You want floppy…

But not a-section-of-line, followed by a-more-floppy-section-of-line, followed by a-less-floppy-section-of-line.  The more "floppy" the center section is, the more likely it is to hinge.  So I think rw’s intuition is basically correct, assuming loo-to-loop connections are floppy, which I don’t think they necessarily are. …most effective transmission of the diminishing energy that was originally put into the cast. This is what gives optimum turnover. Stiff is NOT what you want: try splicing a short length of old carbon fibre rod top into the end of you line and see what ’stiff’ does for the turnover!

It’s not stiff as in dead stiff.  It’s relatively stiff for it’s diameter. Thus, a smaller diameter than your fly line can have the same absolute flexibility/stiffness as your fly line.  I agree, you don’t want the leader butt stiffer than your fly line, but you want it made out of a stiffer *material*.  Alternatively you could use thicker, more flexible leader butt that still allows taper to a thin tippet. Regards, Jeff

Response:

- My physical intuition, such as it is, tells me that a short, stiff mono buttsection tied to the flyline with a nail knot or needle knot is the best rig. Anything "floppy" like a loop-to-loop connection is going to spoil the smooth transfer and dissipation of energy.

Completely wrong, I’m afraid. You want floppy and you want gradual reduction in unit mass down the line taper and through the leader to the tippet for the most effective transmission of the diminishing energy that was originally put into the cast. This is what gives optimum turnover. Stiff is NOT what you want: try splicing a short length of old carbon fibre rod top into the end of you line and see what ’stiff’ does for the turnover! How do you suppose the energy of a wave passes through a body of water?  Not a lot of ’stiff’ involved there! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

There you go Jeff gettin’ serious, when I’m tryin’ to have some fun! Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My physical intuition, such as it is, tells me that a short, stiff mono buttsection tied to the flyline with a nail knot or needle knot is the best rig. Anything "floppy" like a loop-to-loop connection is going to spoil the smooth transfer and dissipation of energy. Completely wrong, I’m afraid. You want floppy… But not a-section-of-line, followed by a-more-floppy-section-of-line, followed by a-less-floppy-section-of-line.  The more "floppy" the center section is, the more likely it is to hinge.  So I think rw’s intuition is basically correct, assuming loo-to-loop connections are floppy, which I don’t think they necessarily are. …most effective transmission of the diminishing energy that was originally put into the cast. This is what gives optimum turnover. Stiff is NOT what you want: try splicing a short length of old carbon fibre rod top into the end of you line and see what ’stiff’ does for the turnover! It’s not stiff as in dead stiff.  It’s relatively stiff for it’s diameter. Thus, a smaller diameter than your fly line can have the same absolute flexibility/stiffness as your fly line.  I agree, you don’t want the leader butt stiffer than your fly line, but you want it made out of a stiffer *material*.  Alternatively you could use thicker, more flexible leader butt that still allows taper to a thin tippet. Regards, Jeff

Response:

The important thing is to have a smooth transition of mass from flyline to leader.

Even though conventional wisdom say stiff, Lefty Kreh for one says exactly what you do – been experimenting with less stiff, more massive butts myself.. (umm, did that sound a bit weird?) here’s an abrupt doubling of mass along the loops, and a quadrupling of mass at the join. Not good.

makes sense This is all theory and supposition, though. The acid test is practice. In my experience, loop-to-loop connections do not cast well. I’d never use them for dry fly fishing.

I hear ya. Regards, Jeff

Response:

…loo-to-loop connection….

The loo-to-loop connection is typically a generous serving of vodka or similar spirits which invariably results in a great deal of stiffness.  However, this does not last.

Response:

…have you been talking to my wife? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The loo-to-loop connection is typically a generous serving of vodka or similar spirits which invariably results in a great deal of stiffness.  However, this does not last.

Response:

There you go Jeff gettin’ serious, when I’m tryin’ to have some fun!

That’s OK, I reamed you on your blackbeard’s ghost thing just to keep it in balance Regards, Jeff

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My physical intuition, such as it is, tells me that a short, stiff mono buttsection tied to the flyline with a nail knot or needle knot is the best rig. Anything "floppy" like a loop-to-loop connection is going to spoil the smooth transfer and dissipation of energy. Completely wrong, I’m afraid. You want floppy… But not a-section-of-line, followed by a-more-floppy-section-of-line, followed by a-less-floppy-section-of-line.  The more "floppy" the center section is, the more likely it is to hinge.  So I think rw’s intuition is basically correct, assuming loo-to-loop connections are floppy, which I don’t think they necessarily are.

It must be that weird British sense of humor, Jeff. …most effective transmission of the diminishing energy that was originally put into the cast. This is what gives optimum turnover. Stiff is NOT what you want: try splicing a short length of old carbon fibre rod top into the end of you line and see what ’stiff’ does for the turnover! It’s not stiff as in dead stiff.  It’s relatively stiff for it’s diameter. Thus, a smaller diameter than your fly line can have the same absolute flexibility/stiffness as your fly line.  I agree, you don’t want the leader butt stiffer than your fly line, but you want it made out of a stiffer *material*.  Alternatively you could use thicker, more flexible leader butt that still allows taper to a thin tippet.

I agree with Tony up to a point, I suppose. The important thing is to have a smooth transition of mass from flyline to leader. Stiffness is secondary, but I prefer something about as stiff as the flyline. (NOT a section of graphite tip!) If you look at mass, though, the loop-to-loop connections are even worse. There’s an abrupt doubling of mass along the loops, and a quadrupling of mass at the join. Not good. This is all theory and supposition, though. The acid test is practice. In my experience, loop-to-loop connections do not cast well. I’d never use them for dry fly fishing. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

As you fish throughout the day, the blood clots should dissolve and your leader ought to smooth out somewhat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If it is tapered properly it casts quite well. Lot better than bloody knotted horsehair anyway. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

That is a line, not a leader, and when properly controlled does not touch the water, so the stuff stays bloody. Clots are sometimes difficult I agree. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

I have two rods and would like to nail knot the mono to both…one is a 3wt and the other is a 6 wt. Is this Maxima leader material or regular fishing line?

280 yards of Maxima Chameleon is about $6. 30 yards of same is $3 Chameleon is stiff, Ultragreen is limp but I’m not sure how stiff their Clear line is. As far as butt recommendations, it depends on your fly line.  I use a 15 lb test Maxima butt for my Wulff Triangle Taper 3/4 but 20lb is better for my Airflo Long Belly 4.  Try 25 or 30 for your 6 wt. Mu

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff, I have two rods and would like to nail knot the mono to both…one is a 3wt and the other is a 6 wt. Is this Maxima leader material or regular fishing line? Thanks, Tim Tim, it’s leader material but it won’t work worth a damn nail knotted to your rods waldo

But I sure would save a lot of cash not buying fly line….hmmm…wonder how it would cast???:)

Response:

If it is tapered properly it casts quite well. Lot better than bloody knotted horsehair anyway. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Nail knotting it to the rods will result in broken rods, or very short overpowered casts, knot it to the line ! The Maxima referred to is monofilament fishing line. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Question:

Agnes, The Sabana Resort (near Desaru) is easily reached by ferry from both Changi Point and Tanah Merah Jetty. I have friends residing in Spore coming over to visit me on Labour days. So, I have make some plans visiting Kota Tinggi area. Here are some of the suggestions: Mutiara Motor Resort in Sedili Kecil, very layback without tourist!! for kampung life. you can cycle, jungle trek, play pools or karaoke…. . A slow walk about in Kg. Sedili Besar, a sleepy fishing village opposite Kuala Sedili. Interesting sights will be ensured. http://www.mutiaramotors.com/html/resort/index_resort.html Also, Pulau Sibu/Tinggi is just a 2-3 hour trip from Kuala Sedili by boat. Check out this site for info : http://www.myoutdoor.com/ about Johor’s Islands nearby Mersing is quiet and beautiful too. I have been to most of the islands and so far has not disappointed me just yet. If you ever go , remember to bring lots of film. You will never regrets. It maybe a bit limited in choices of getting there though. Except Tioman Island. You may take the ferry from Tanah Merah Jetty, Spore and cruise to Berjaya Tioman for diving and romantic holiday. (4hrs) Fly/Drive to Kuala Trengganu, transfer to Merang pier and off to Redang for wonderful days in paradise. You can stay in Berjaya Redang, or the other hotel opposite Redang, Lang Tengah, Crystal clear water, white powdery sandy beaches and colourful fishes swing among the beauitful corals. Do a search in Yahoo, and you will find more than the above choices. If you need further info, do contact me. Good luck Provis – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hey guess what, that’s my BF’s hometown!! ))) hmmmm thought tinggi is famous only for its waterfall?? why don’t you try Sebana Resort in Kota Tinggi, Johor, Malaysia heard they have good marina (calm water), 18 hole golf course, apartments, hotel rooms, facilities, etc…

Response:

I was on koh Phi Phi in ‘94, and it was way overtouristed then.  It’s only going to be 6 years worse now. In ‘89 a friend and I needed to find an island fairly close to Bangkok (limited travel time) and went to Koh Si Chang, which was great in the sense that we saw no other white people while there–it seems to be a cross between people who live there and Thais who go for vacation.  If you want something a little less over-westernized, you might try that one. Then agian, that was 10 years ago…. -Doug Magnoli – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It sure is tourisy, and the food isn’t very fantastic. I won’t say its over-built … but it’s definitely on the way to being commercialised. The westerners there look like they’ve been there for so long they have already assimilated the laid-back kampong culture of the island. Anyway, if you really insist on going to Koh Samui, u shd at least go there with a touch of class. The Chaweng Regent is quite good. My stay there was pretty enjoyable. Nice pools, nice beaches and the gym was pretty well equipped. The rooms are pretty well equipped too. However, after watching The Beach, my next pit-stop will be Phi Phi Island. I will plonk myself in the lagoon and yell: I WILL NOT DIE TODAY!!!! GODDAMMIT!!!! at a baby shark. — Cheesy Poofs "Who has a habit now of saying GODDAMMIT!!!!" we had orginally targeted the southern islands like krabi and koh phi phi, but it seems that the monsoon season hits that area from May to October…..whereas for the islands in the gulf, the monsoon is from october to december…not that this really matters, coz there’s been thunderstorms almost daily in koh samui…. phi phi island sounds wonderful, though it’s on its way to another phuket…..if you read the latest news, everyone who has watched the beach, and fallen in love with the place have zoomed in there….last heard that it has become a tourist zoo ) looks like you’d have to find your own little cliff somewhere else ))

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karl, you gotta know.. to some people, having a low paid but honest job is a disgrace… they’d rather be involved in some kinda corrupt bullshit and be a parasitic leech on the people… Excuse me, what kind of professions can you recomend to that people ? Bankrobber, drugdealer, killer…. ? Karl Ah   sorry you must be a gas-fitter! No, but what would be wrong if so ? Karl

delete SPAMMERSDIE for correspondence ICQ:42366740

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Has anyone stayed at Tradewinds on Chaweng Beach, Koh Samui?  Is it a recommended place? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2 years ago I stayed at the Coral Bay Resort with my family. It is a very nice resort. The food is superb and so is the service. The beach is however too shallow. But if you are satisfied with a swim in the pool the place is a very good choice. We are returning in June-July and will then stay at the High Coral Cove (900 bht/night). Their bungalows are not as fancy as the Coral Bay Resort but they have a fantastic little beach with corals. And the view from the restaurant over the Chaweng beach is stunning. Have a nice trip!! Agnes skrev: hiya, i’m planning a trip to koh samui with my BF from 5-10 May.  I’ve been scouting around for some good resorts that don’t cost too much, and yet have nice facilities…we’re basically looking forward to a peaceful vacation of bumming around the beach and the pool, with lots of sun and sea.  we’re cut down the choices to six, but can’t exactly decide which to go for….has anyone stayed at these hotels, and which of them would be the best choice? any tips on other resorts would be greatly appreciated too.  Thanks!! Chaweng Beach: Chaweng Villa Beach Resort 1,900 Baht/nite The Victorial Resort and Hotel 2,000 Baht/nite Coral Bay Resort 2,000 Baht/nite Lamai Beach: Aloha Resort 1,672 baht/nite Royal Blue Lagoon 1,940 baht/nite Jungle Park Resort 2,050 baht/nite

Response:

I’ve stayed at Chaweng Beach Resort (not sure if it’s the same as Chawend Beach Villa Resort). Paid additional for a room with sea-view – truth is, the block is facing the sea, but not my unit! Later, I found out only 1 unit faces the sea. Felt a little cheated. But Koh Samui is a nice, charming little island, with lots of very friendly people. You’ll enjoy it. Have fun!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hiya, i’m planning a trip to koh samui with my BF from 5-10 May.  I’ve been scouting around for some good resorts that don’t cost too much, and yet have nice facilities…we’re basically looking forward to a peaceful vacation of bumming around the beach and the pool, with lots of sun and sea.  we’re cut down the choices to six, but can’t exactly decide which to go for….has anyone stayed at these hotels, and which of them would be the best choice? any tips on other resorts would be greatly appreciated too.  Thanks!! Chaweng Beach: Chaweng Villa Beach Resort 1,900 Baht/nite The Victorial Resort and Hotel 2,000 Baht/nite Coral Bay Resort 2,000 Baht/nite Lamai Beach: Aloha Resort 1,672 baht/nite Royal Blue Lagoon 1,940 baht/nite Jungle Park Resort 2,050 baht/nite

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Excuse me, what kind of professions can you recomend to that people ? Bankrobber, drugdealer, killer…. ? Karl Ah   sorry you must be a gas-fitter!

No, but what would be wrong if so ? Karl

Response:

much better than phuket… at least you do not get accosted by the people trying to get you into their bars… nice beaches…. laidback as all heck… kinda nice place to go do nothing… yup, i’ve heard that samui is on its way to being a little too commercialised, but i didnt realise it was that bad….from what i read and heard, it seems that samui is much better when compared to phuket and pattaya….i guess that’s the prob with tourism, when some place becomes popular with good reason, it soon loses its charm……

delete SPAMMERSDIE for correspondence ICQ:42366740

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Excuse me, what kind of professions can you recomend to that people ? Bankrobber, drugdealer, killer…. ? Karl

Ah   sorry you must be a gas-fitter!

Response:

  I spent two nights at High Coral Cove in March and then moved out.  The bathroom flooded while showering as the floor was sloped away from the drain, two of the lamps in the room didn’t work, lots of mosquitoes in the evening when sitting on the balcony, and the path lighting wasn’t very good at night. But as you said, good view and good snorkeling.   Not on my recommmended list.        Brewster – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We are returning in June-July and will then stay at the High Coral Cove (900 bht/night). Their bungalows are not as fancy as the Coral Bay Resort but they have a fantastic little beach with corals. And the view from the restaurant over the Chaweng beach is stunning.

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hey guess what, that’s my BF’s hometown!! ))) hmmmm thought tinggi is famous only for its waterfall?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – why don’t you try Sebana Resort in Kota Tinggi, Johor, Malaysia heard they have good marina (calm water), 18 hole golf course, apartments, hotel rooms, facilities, etc…

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I read somewhere on the koh samet net (i think) that the prob with malaria has been cleared up, though the other "harmless" mosquitoes are still in full abundance – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – take care, Ko Samet is beautiful and has easy connection with BKK, but when I was there back in 93 I did resist just one night due to the incredible number of mosquitos ( which are of the malaria type…). It’s a pity because the place is fantastic. I dunno if the situation has changed and they solved the mosquito problem, try to get updated info through the Thorn Tree on lonelyplanet.com. joaquim

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2 years ago I stayed at the Coral Bay Resort with my family. It is a very nice resort. The food is superb and so is the service. The beach is however too shallow. But if you are satisfied with a swim in the pool the place is a very good choice. We are returning in June-July and will then stay at the High Coral Cove (900 bht/night). Their bungalows are not as fancy as the Coral Bay Resort but they have a fantastic little beach with corals. And the view from the restaurant over the Chaweng beach is stunning. Have a nice trip!! Agnes skrev: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – hiya, i’m planning a trip to koh samui with my BF from 5-10 May.  I’ve been scouting around for some good resorts that don’t cost too much, and yet have nice facilities…we’re basically looking forward to a peaceful vacation of bumming around the beach and the pool, with lots of sun and sea.  we’re cut down the choices to six, but can’t exactly decide which to go for….has anyone stayed at these hotels, and which of them would be the best choice? any tips on other resorts would be greatly appreciated too.  Thanks!! Chaweng Beach: Chaweng Villa Beach Resort 1,900 Baht/nite The Victorial Resort and Hotel 2,000 Baht/nite Coral Bay Resort 2,000 Baht/nite Lamai Beach: Aloha Resort 1,672 baht/nite Royal Blue Lagoon 1,940 baht/nite Jungle Park Resort 2,050 baht/nite

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I was at Koh Samet at Vong Duen Beach on 9 & 10 March 2000. I was there before in october 1999. Then I had a beuatifull time. Now, there are a lot of new restaurants. But don’t go to the hotel-resort Sea Horse Bungelow. It was very, very bad now. A very poor maintenance and expensive for what you get. John joaquim schreef: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  koh samet and koh chang….we finally decided on koh samet, which few tourists venture out to to, and it’s really really great for hanging out and bumming around….. take care, Ko Samet is beautiful and has easy connection with BKK, but when I was there back in 93 I did resist just one night due to the incredible number of mosquitos ( which are of the malaria type…). It’s a pity because the place is fantastic. I dunno if the situation has changed and they solved the mosquito problem, try to get updated info through the Thorn Tree on lonelyplanet.com. joaquim

Response:

take care, Ko Samet is beautiful and has easy connection with BKK, but when I was there back in 93 I did resist just one night due to the incredible number of mosquitos ( which are of the malaria type…). It’s a pity because the place is fantastic. I dunno if the situation has changed and they solved the mosquito problem, try to get updated info through the Thorn Tree on lonelyplanet.com. joaquim

I was there in August 1999 and there were not more mosquitos than in other places. Probably the situation has improved since 1993. — Alfred Molon To reply replace NOSPAM with csi

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I realise that the trip has been put on hold. I would like to say though that Koh Samui is an idyllic islands, and I do not see how any one can be disappointed with it. It has everything restaurants, top hotels, bungalows, amazing beaches, great night life etc. etc. http://www.asiatraveltips.com this will give you a wonderful idea of what it is like. I personally went to Samui January for three weeks and will return whenever I can it is a beautiful place. Please do reconsider Samui as an option. Kindest regards Steven * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

phi phi island sounds wonderful, though it’s on its way to another phuket…..if you read the latest news, everyone who has watched the beach, and fallen in love with the place have zoomed in there….last heard that it has become a tourist zoo ) looks like you’d have to find your own little cliff somewhere else ))

I was in Ko Phi Phi in 1992, and it was already overcrowded…figure out now, after The Beach!!! The problem with Phi Phi is that is really tiny and you can tour it walking in one hour so it gets a tourist zoo very easily. There are some beatiful and unspoilt islands near Phuket,  in the Phang-nga bay: their names are Ko Yao Yai and Ko Yao Noi, southernmost Ko Lanta is a good place. joaquim

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ko Samui is most disappointing. Over-built,  touristy,  Thai food no good,  too many unwashed Western hippies who are normally clerks and gas-fitters when they go back home. Crawling with hookers. There are much better parts of thailand such as Hua Hin, Trang,  even phuket if you choose the correct place yup, i’ve heard that samui is on its way to being a little too commercialised, but i didnt realise it was that bad….from what i read and heard, it seems that samui is much better when compared to phuket and pattaya….i guess that’s the prob with tourism, when some place becomes popular with good reason, it soon loses its charm…… hua hin and trang sounded pretty good, but we’re more interested in isolated beaches cut off from the mainland, more in the likes of koh samet or koh chang….

why don’t you try Sebana Resort in Kota Tinggi, Johor, Malaysia heard they have good marina (calm water), 18 hole golf course, apartments, hotel rooms, facilities, etc…

Response:

THE BOMOH wrote : Ko Samui is most disappointing. Over-built,  touristy,  Thai food no good,  too many unwashed Western hippies who are normally clerks and gas-fitters when they go back home.

Excuse me, what kind of professions can you recomend to that people ? Bankrobber, drugdealer, killer…. ? Karl

Response:

 koh samet and koh chang….we finally decided on koh samet, which few tourists venture out to to, and it’s really really great for hanging out and bumming around…..

take care, Ko Samet is beautiful and has easy connection with BKK, but when I was there back in 93 I did resist just one night due to the incredible number of mosquitos ( which are of the malaria type…). It’s a pity because the place is fantastic. I dunno if the situation has changed and they solved the mosquito problem, try to get updated info through the Thorn Tree on lonelyplanet.com. joaquim

Response:

hiya, i’d like to thank everyone who has posted or emailed their suggestions and comments to me…all your advice was of great help after hearing some negative reviews, we sort of re-considered whether to go to samui….we’re looking for a great place to hang out, with not too many tourists, and it’s disappointing to find out that samui is almost similar to phuket and pattaya…furthermore, samui is really accessible with a direct flight from singapore….. we then considered other islands like koh tao and koh phang-nan (too inaccesible), koh phi phi and koh lanta (bad weather then), koh samet and koh chang….we finally decided on koh samet, which few tourists venture out to, and it’s really really great for hanging out and bumming around….. but then we checked the dates, and darn!!! our plans were messed up again….seems that 5 may is a public holiday, and it falls nicely on fri….that means that it’s gonna be a zoo everywhere during that weekend!!! it was with great sadness that we concluded we won’t be going to thailand this may sorry all!! but all the info is still useful, coz some of our other friends might be going, so we’d forward them all the info….thank you one and all!!! btw, the story has not been concluded yet ) we’d be checking out the malaysian islands instead ) no public holidays during that time, and it’s not yet full-blown tourist season yet, so should be great….we’d be posting another request for help should it be needed )) cheers, and have a great holiday !!!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -It sure is tourisy, and the food isn’t very fantastic. I won’t say its over-built … but it’s definitely on the way to being commercialised. The westerners there look like they’ve been there for so long they have already assimilated the laid-back kampong culture of the island. Anyway, if you really insist on going to Koh Samui, u shd at least go there with a touch of class. The Chaweng Regent is quite good. My stay there was pretty enjoyable. Nice pools, nice beaches and the gym was pretty well equipped. The rooms are pretty well equipped too. However, after watching The Beach, my next pit-stop will be Phi Phi Island. I will plonk myself in the lagoon and yell: I WILL NOT DIE TODAY!!!! GODDAMMIT!!!! at a baby shark. — Cheesy Poofs "Who has a habit now of saying GODDAMMIT!!!!"

we had orginally targeted the southern islands like krabi and koh phi phi, but it seems that the monsoon season hits that area from May to October…..whereas for the islands in the gulf, the monsoon is from october to december…not that this really matters, coz there’s been thunderstorms almost daily in koh samui…. phi phi island sounds wonderful, though it’s on its way to another phuket…..if you read the latest news, everyone who has watched the beach, and fallen in love with the place have zoomed in there….last heard that it has become a tourist zoo ) looks like you’d have to find your own little cliff somewhere else ))

Response:

Ko Samui is most disappointing. Over-built,  touristy,  Thai food no good,  too many unwashed Western hippies who are normally clerks and gas-fitters when they go back home. Crawling with hookers. There are much better parts of thailand such as Hua Hin, Trang,  even phuket if you choose the correct place

yup, i’ve heard that samui is on its way to being a little too commercialised, but i didnt realise it was that bad….from what i read and heard, it seems that samui is much better when compared to phuket and pattaya….i guess that’s the prob with tourism, when some place becomes popular with good reason, it soon loses its charm…… hua hin and trang sounded pretty good, but we’re more interested in isolated beaches cut off from the mainland, more in the likes of koh samet or koh chang….

Response:

hiya, i’m planning a trip to koh samui with my BF from 5-10 May.  I’ve been scouting around for some good resorts that don’t cost too much, and yet have nice facilities…we’re basically looking forward to a peaceful vacation of bumming around the beach and the pool, with lots of sun and sea.  we’re cut down the choices to six, but can’t exactly decide which to go for….has anyone stayed at these hotels, and which of them would be the best choice?

Ko Samui is most disappointing. Over-built,  touristy,  Thai food no good,  too many unwashed Western hippies who are normally clerks and gas-fitters when they go back home. Crawling with hookers. There are much better parts of thailand such as Hua Hin, Trang,  even phuket if you choose the correct place.

Response:

Ko Samui is most disappointing. Over-built,  touristy,  Thai food no good,  too many unwashed Western hippies who are normally clerks and gas-fitters when they go back home. Crawling with hookers. There are much better parts of thailand such as Hua Hin, Trang,  even phuket if you choose the correct place.

It sure is tourisy, and the food isn’t very fantastic. I won’t say its over-built … but it’s definitely on the way to being commercialised. The westerners there look like they’ve been there for so long they have already assimilated the laid-back kampong culture of the island. Anyway, if you really insist on going to Koh Samui, u shd at least go there with a touch of class. The Chaweng Regent is quite good. My stay there was pretty enjoyable. Nice pools, nice beaches and the gym was pretty well equipped. The rooms are pretty well equipped too. However, after watching The Beach, my next pit-stop will be Phi Phi Island. I will plonk myself in the lagoon and yell: I WILL NOT DIE TODAY!!!! GODDAMMIT!!!! at a baby shark. — Cheesy Poofs "Who has a habit now of saying GODDAMMIT!!!!"

Response:

hiya, i’m planning a trip to koh samui with my BF from 5-10 May.  I’ve been scouting around for some good resorts that don’t cost too much, and yet have nice facilities…we’re basically looking forward to a peaceful vacation of bumming around the beach and the pool, with lots of sun and sea.  we’re cut down the choices to six, but can’t exactly decide which to go for….has anyone stayed at these hotels, and which of them would be the best choice? any tips on other resorts would be greatly appreciated too.  Thanks!! Chaweng Beach: Chaweng Villa Beach Resort 1,900 Baht/nite The Victorial Resort and Hotel 2,000 Baht/nite Coral Bay Resort 2,000 Baht/nite Lamai Beach: Aloha Resort 1,672 baht/nite Royal Blue Lagoon 1,940 baht/nite Jungle Park Resort 2,050 baht/nite

Response:

Question:

As somebody else already mentioned in the thread,a loop in the leader to tippet connection is a bad idea.If you plan on making any type of technical presentation whatsoever a looped tippet will not be responsive.Heck,most dryfly fishing gurus recommend that you don’t use a loop anywhere in your leader because of the effect it has on presentation.The minimal amount of money or line that you would save with a replaceable tippet would not be worth the loss in accuracy.

Response:

Hi Fly2bass, I never really thought about it since I do not use loop connectors, except for line to leader.  But does this mean that the braided leader systems are not a good thing?  This is the only case where I have seen loop to loop connection for the leader to tippet. — Fritz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As somebody else already mentioned in the thread,a loop in the leader to tippet connection is a bad idea.If you plan on making any type of technical presentation whatsoever a looped tippet will not be responsive.Heck,most dryfly fishing gurus recommend that you don’t use a loop anywhere in your leader because of the effect it has on presentation.The minimal amount of money or line that you would save with a replaceable tippet would not be worth the loss in accuracy.

Response:

<Rant on – I believe the origninator of this thread was Greg Wood.  Greg, I flat cannot believe that a looped tippet connection has ANY negative effect on presentation, dry fly or otherwise.  This is based on a fair amount of experience with these connections.  I do hope you try the looped system and report here what you conclude from the experiment.  I would consider THAT useful information.  That kind of information is what I read this newsgroup for.  Don’t worry about the gushing negativity based on heresy. – Rant off Hi Fitz, I haven’t tried the Orvis system yet because I can’t see what advantage the Orvis system might offer over more conventional setups.  Still, I plan to give em a try next time I place an order with Orvis, simply because I am curious. Always looking for a better way to do things.  Does anyone out there who has actually tried the Ovis leader system like it?  If not, Why? You would see more examples of loop-to-loop rigging if you read the saltwater literature or talked to people that fish the salt.  Lefty Kreh is the most widely known advocate of loop connections that I can name. I hesitate to use his name because last time I said "Lefty does it " I drew hostile fire.   I don’t know how widespread the practice is but it does have a following. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Fly2bass, I never really thought about it since I do not use loop connectors, except for line to leader.  But does this mean that the braided leader systems are not a good thing?  This is the only case where I have seen loop to loop connection for the leader to tippet. — Fritz As somebody else already mentioned in the thread,a loop in the leader to tippet connection is a bad idea.If you plan on making any type of technical presentation whatsoever a looped tippet will not be responsive.Heck,most dryfly fishing gurus recommend that you don’t use a loop anywhere in your leader because of the effect it has on presentation.The minimal amount of money or line that you would save with a replaceable tippet would not be worth the loss in accuracy.

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John A Schroeder writes:

(snip) I haven’t tried the Orvis system yet because I can’t see what advantage the Orvis system might offer over more conventional setups.  Still, I plan to give em a try next time I place an order with Orvis, simply because I am curious. Always looking for a better way to do things.  Does anyone out there who has actually tried the Ovis leader system like it?  If not, Why?

I have used the braided loop on the line to a perfection loop on the leader, and it certainly didn’t stop me from catching fish.  But, if the braided loop is put on incorrectly, it could "hinge".  This happeded to me once and I simply snipped it off and put a new one on – worked fine after that.   I also use a nail knot connection on my lighter weight rods and do not notice a difference.   I think that the biggest objection to the loop to loop is that Orvis is known for putting the loop on the fly line. Dave LaCourse "We can’t change the winds, but….. we can adjust our sails!!"

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Question:

Can someone give me advise on how to go about learning the art of fly fishing?  How about any good books on the basics?  Thanks

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone give me advise on how to go about learning the art of fly fishing?  How about any good books on the basics?  Thanks

Response:

Can someone give me advise on how to go about learning the art of fly fishing?  How about any good books on the basics?  Thanks

This is a big question.  First, is there a flyfishing shop near where you live?  If so, stop in and start talking.  Look at the books, check into casting lessons, and generally ask for information.  That’s the best I can do with this one! Mark Faulkner

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Can someone give me advise on how to go about learning the art of fly fishing?  How about any good books on the basics?  Thanks

Hi My favorite book is the ‘L.L.Bean Fly Fishing Handbook’ by Dave Whitlock. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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The Orvis Flyfishing Guide by Tom Rosenbaugh is a good starter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can someone give me advise on how to go about learning the art of fly fishing?  How about any good books on the basics?  Thanks

Response:

Question:

I am planning a fishing/4wheeling trip in the Deadwood area during the first week of Mar 99. Maps, guide, lodging, equipment suggestions, fly patterns, the works! If you can help, direct e-mail is preferable. ThanX

Response:

See Feb 99 Fly Fisherman magazine, it has just what you’re looking for. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning a fishing/4wheeling trip in the Deadwood area during the first week of Mar 99. Maps, guide, lodging, equipment suggestions, fly patterns, the works! If you can help, direct e-mail is preferable. ThanX

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Rainbows and cutts will interbreed in the wild, but it’s a little more complicated than that.  For example, they won’t interbreed where they evolved together in the same river because they occupy different niches and spawn differently (West slope cutts and redband rainbow exist together in several rivers).  However, if you introduce rainbow into waters where cutthroats are native and rainbow are not, such as the Madison, they will interbreed.  Such is the danger of stocking. I don’t normally like to see stocking in rivers that support wild trout, but if the rainbows (non-native planted in the 30’s) are done for in the Madison, and they want to re-introduce the native west slope cutthroat from pure strain stocks (which they believe they have), it would be nice to have the native fish back in the Madison.  

Hi Dan, Glad to see you back on the group. The Montana fish and game people I’ve talked with also advised that the cutthroat spawn in the tributaries where there is not whirling disease and stay there for a couple of years before returning to the main river. In that time their skeletal structure grows from grissle to bone — their skeleton is supposed to be only effected by the disease when it is in the grissle state. Rainbows on the others hand spawn in the tributaries and return to the main river soon after while their skeletal structure is still grissle. Have a great 1997. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

 Rainbows and cutts will interbreed in the wild, but it’s a little more complicated than that.  For example, they won’t interbreed where they evolved together in the same river because they occupy different niches and spawn differently (West slope cutts and redband rainbow exist together in several rivers).  However, if you introduce rainbow into waters where cutthroats are native and rainbow are not, such as the Madison, they will interbreed.  Such is the danger of stocking.

The Montana DFW page ( http://fwp.mt.gov/ ) has some great info on the project.   The impression I get is that even though cutts and bows will cross breed when stocked together, they don’t expect much in the way of cross breeding because there are so few rainbows left in the Madison. I don’t normally like to see stocking in rivers that support wild trout, but if the rainbows (non-native planted in the 30’s) are done for in the Madison, and they want to re-introduce the native west slope cutthroat from pure strain stocks (which they believe they have), it would be nice to have the native fish back in the Madison.  the areas they are talking about re-stocking with Cutts is being checked for the prescence of tubifex worms (carriers of whirling disease) and thought to have low quantities of both tubifex worms and infected rainbows. The question then becomes how much stocking is enough, and how long will it take to develop wild natives from the hatchery natives.   Of course, they could just leave it alone and let the brown trout take over, but then they aren’t as easy to catch as the cutts.                                          Hmmmmm,                                               Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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Al, Thanks for sharing this information with us.  This is indeed very interesting.  Here in Oregon we have a lot of native cutthroat and they are great to fish.  They will attack a fly like it’s the last morsel on earth.  The hatcheries like to stock them (they are hardier) as well as a cross they produce with rainbow they call a cutbow.  I wonder if the cutts and rainbow would cross in the Madison.  I don’t know if they will cross in the wild.  we have streams that contain both.  If they did where would the young grow?

  Rainbows and cutts will interbreed in the wild, but it’s a little more complicated than that.  For example, they won’t interbreed where they evolved together in the same river because they occupy different niches and spawn differently (West slope cutts and redband rainbow exist together in several rivers).  However, if you introduce rainbow into waters where cutthroats are native and rainbow are not, such as the Madison, they will interbreed.  Such is the danger of stocking. Rob Gregoire                                                        | Pocatello, Id              

Response:

  There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Visit     http"//fwp.mt.gov/    and take a look. Sounds good so far … any thoughts ? if so, CC to   Dave Hagengruber   Harry

Hi Harry I know there will be those against the plan but after a long conversation with a Montana fish biologist I’m supporting the plan.  What he shared with me was very encouraging based on a whole lot of information I can not put in here but basically this is it in a very boiled down version: Cutthroat trout spawn in small tributaries and REMAIN there for a couple of years (while their bones turn from grissle to real bone). Rainbows spawn in the tributaries and return to the main river while their bones are still grissle rather than bone. Supposedly whirling disease attacks the fish while their skeletal structure is still grissle. This is a short version of a several hour discussion with the folks that seem to know a heck of a lot more than I do. Will it work? I have no ideas but the stuff they shared with me sounded good at least. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

  There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Visit     http"//fwp.mt.gov/    and take a look. Sounds good so far … any thoughts ? if so, CC to   Dave Hagengruber I’ll take cutt’s in montana over bows, browns and brookies any day of the week.  They belong there, right ? TimW

I agree, they where there years back, just like the Grayling. I do not know if the plan will work but I like the idea of "something" being done to try and combat WD.   Hm  

Response:

  There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Visit     http"//fwp.mt.gov/    and take a look. Sounds good so far … any thoughts ? if so, CC to   Dave Hagengruber   Harry

Response:

 There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Visit     http"//fwp.mt.gov/    and take a look. Sounds good so far … any thoughts ? if so, CC to   Dave Hagengruber  Harry

   Sorry, fat fingers, the URL is    http://fwp.mt.gov/      Harry  ( Nice page in any event g< )

Response:

  There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Visit     http"//fwp.mt.gov/    and take a look. Sounds good so far … any thoughts ? if so, CC to   Dave Hagengruber

I’ll take cutt’s in montana over bows, browns and brookies any day of the week.  They belong there, right ? TimW

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Visit     http"//fwp.mt.gov/    and take a look. Sounds good so far … any thoughts ? if so, CC to   Dave Hagengruber I’ll take cutt’s in montana over bows, browns and brookies any day of the week.  They belong there, right ? TimW I agree, they where there years back, just like the Grayling. I do not know if the plan will work but I like the idea of "something" being done to try and combat WD.  Hm  

Ain’t WHIRLING DISEASE somethin them square dancer get when they dance too long? DJones

Response:

While stocking always sounds like a good idea, fact is that it was stocking hatchery fish that brought whirling disease into existing populations. There is also the matter of genetic intergression if one stocks fish from another watershed into another where a native stock already exists.  If the Madison is completely devoid of cutts, intergression would not be a problem; however if any native fish remain, their genes will be lost when the new stock takes over. — Don Jordan POB 2357 Chiefland, FL 32644 http://ripserv.com/indyjones

Its my understanding that the rainbow below Quake Lake were restocked after the earthquake because of fisk kill resulting from the landslide at Quake Lake.  Can some of you Montanans with long memories shed any light on this? Jim

Response:

While stocking always sounds like a good idea, fact is that it was stocking hatchery fish that brought whirling disease into existing populations. There is also the matter of genetic intergression if one stocks fish from another watershed into another where a native stock already exists.  If the Madison is completely devoid of cutts, intergression would not be a problem; however if any native fish remain, their genes will be lost when the new stock takes over. — Don Jordan POB 2357 Chiefland, FL 32644 http://ripserv.com/indyjones

Response:

While stocking always sounds like a good idea, fact is that it was stocking hatchery fish that brought whirling disease into existing populations.

No, Don.    What brought whirling disease into existing populations was stocking SICK hatchery fish.  Stocking per se is not the problem. that is not to say, however, tht it is the solution either.  I think that it is not. But, although I am generally opposed to stocking hatchery fish in rivers where there are wild populations, I have become convinced this idea withthe cutts may be worth a try.  I had most of my reservations addressed by the excellent coverage of the project on the Montana FW&P web page.  You really ought to check it out.  I can’t give you the exact address, but you should be able to get to it.  Let me know if you cannot, and I will get it for you. There is also the matter of genetic intergression if one stocks fish from another watershed into another where a native stock already exists.  If the Madison is completely devoid of cutts, intergression would not be a problem; however if any native fish remain, their genes will be lost when the new stock takes over.

I am not a biologist, but I do not believe this will be a problem. Take a look at the discussion I just cited.  As I stated, I generally am not a supporter of stocking in wild trout waters, an even stronger opponent is Dick Vincent whose 1970’s study led to the cessation of stocking in Montana rivers.  He is in favor of the proposed project with the cutts.  That says a lot to me. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

Response:

snip   I had most of my reservations addressed by the excellent coverage of the project on the Montana FW&P web page.  You really ought to check it out.  I can’t give you the exact address, but you should be able to get to it.   Lyman G. Hughes snip

Montana’s web page addres is:  http://www.fwp.mt.gov/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

Response:

  There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . I’ll take cutt’s in montana over bows, browns and brookies any day of the week.  They belong there, right ? TimW

I think you are right.  The cutthroat are always native it seems in our most inaccessible waters in the west.  So they surely belong.  A damn great fighter too. -Burton

Response:

  There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . Cutthroat trout spawn in small tributaries and REMAIN there for a couple of years (while their bones turn from grissle to real bone). Rainbows spawn in the tributaries and return to the main river while their bones are still grissle rather than bone. Supposedly whirling disease attacks the fish while their skeletal structure is still grissle. This is a short

Al, Thanks for sharing this information with us.  This is indeed very interesting.  Here in Oregon we have a lot of native cutthroat and they are great to fish.  They will attack a fly like it’s the last morsel on earth.  The hatcheries like to stock them (they are hardier) as well as a cross they produce with rainbow they call a cutbow.  I wonder if the cutts and rainbow would cross in the Madison.  I don’t know if they will cross in the wild.  we have streams that contain both.  If they did where would the young grow? -Burton

Response:

Its my understanding that the rainbow below Quake Lake were restocked after the earthquake because of fisk kill resulting from the landslide at Quake Lake.  Can some of you Montanans with long memories shed any light on this? Jim

Good question.  I don’t know the answer specifically, but stocking was fairly common in the Madison until Dick Vincent’s study showed that stocking actually was detrimental to the wild trout fishery.  I believe that study was in the early 70’s.   The quake was in ‘59, so what you suggest is possible. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   There is a plan afoot to stock the Madison  with Westslope Cutt’s . I’ll take cutt’s in montana over bows, browns and brookies any day of the week.  They belong there, right ? TimW I think you are right.  The cutthroat are always native it seems in our most inaccessible waters in the west.  So they surely belong.  A damn great fighter too. -Burton

Burton    "point your browser to"         http://fwp.mt.gov/      Nice page, good info   HM

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – cross they produce with rainbow they call a cutbow.  I wonder if the cutts and rainbow would cross in the Madison.  I don’t know if they cross in the wild.  we have streams that contain both.  If they Rainbows and cutts will interbreed in the wild, but it’s a little more complicated than that.  For example, they won’t interbreed where they evolved together in the same river because they occupy different niches and spawn differently (West slope cutts and redband rainbow exist together in several rivers).  However, if you introduce rainbow into waters where cutthroats are native and rainbow are not, such as the Madison, they will interbreed.  Such is the danger of stocking. Rob Gregoire

Ah so, that’s what I suspected.  Thanks for the response Rob.  I know the McKenzie River had redsides and cutthroat both, but the cutts are only found in the lower reaches of the river.  There are rainbows in the lower part of the river, but I have never caught a cutt in the upper rainbow rich region. Merry Christmas to all and Happy New Year, -Burton

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Question:

We are planning a trip to Nova Scotia Aug. 17-25th.  We will be concentrating our time in the Guysbourough (sp?) area and heading over to Prince Edward Island for a few days.  We already have the stream map of NOva Scotia…are there any streams/rivers in the areas we’ll be traveling in that offer good fishing without guides?  WE are not interested in fishing solely for salmon but would like to fish for brook trout.  In addition, what are some good fly patterns to bring along. Finally, if anyone can recommend a lodge/bed and breakfast in the areawe would appreciate knowing about it.  Thank you in advance for any information.  Carolyn Mahan and Kurt Engstrom

Response:

We are planning a trip to Nova Scotia Aug. 17-25th.  We will be concentrating our time in the Guysbourough (sp?) area and heading over to Prince Edward Island for a few days.  We already have the stream map of NOva Scotia…are there any streams/rivers in the areas we’ll be traveling in that offer good fishing without guides?  WE are not interested in fishing solely for salmon but would like to fish for brook trout.  In addition, what are some good fly patterns to bring along. Finally, if anyone can recommend a lodge/bed and breakfast in the areawe would appreciate knowing about it.  Thank you in advance for any information.  Carolyn Mahan and Kurt Engstrom

There are several interesting rivers in that area. the most notable is probably Salmon River just outside of town (Guysbourough) You will find Brown / Speckled trout and Atlantic Salmon there There is also the Country Harbour River nearby but you may be a bit late for it, however if things are slow……. You will also find on your map that you are not far from the St. Mary’s River one of the best salmon rivers in the province and worth a look over even if it is close to the season’s end by the time you are going to be in the area. I haven’t stayed in that area for many years and therfore cannot recommend a place to stay but the Dept of Tourism puts out a book called Where to Stay in Nova Scotia that will give lots of info. They will send you one for the asking                                 Hope you enjoy your trip                                         Geoff  _  / __  __  __/   _  / / /__  /_    __  /_      / /_/ /  _  /___   / /_/ / _  __/    _  __/      ____/   /_____/   ____/  /_/       /_/        http://highlander.cbnet.ns.ca/ Cape Breton Community Network Check it out !!

Response:

We are planning a trip to Nova Scotia Aug. 17-25th.  We will be

Might consider contacting Dennis and Verlie Grant of the Atlantic Fly Fishing School,  902/67302590.  Denis is a FFF master caster and a really nice guy.  They run a small bed and breakfast, as well. Tell him I said hello.  Hope this helps.  David Lambert

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Question:

I would appreciate any information on fishing for steelhead or salmon around Vancouver in late October, particularly on wadeable river spots. Thanks in advance, RK —   /      RedKnight               | Chris McCarley   /      "I have seen the future |            and it is neural."      |

Try calling Ruddicks Fly Shop in Burnaby (Suburb of Van)

Response:

I would appreciate any information on fishing for steelhead or salmon around Vancouver in late October, particularly on wadeable river spots. Thanks in advance, RK —   /      RedKnight               | Chris McCarley   /      "I have seen the future |            and it is neural."      |

Response: