Question:

Hello Everyone,  I’m gearing up to do a bit of small lake fishing next week.  I really haven’t done much lake fly fishing over the past few years so I’m not real sure what to bring along for patterns.  Can anyone suggest some good "general" patterns for exploration on high mountain lakes? TIA

Response:

Hello Everyone,  I’m gearing up to do a bit of small lake fishing next week.  I really haven’t done much lake fly fishing over the past few years so I’m not real sure what to bring along for patterns.  Can anyone suggest some good "general" patterns for exploration on high mountain lakes? TIA

These are the flies I use over here in Scotland on hill lochs :- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/flyindex.html especially the "Dry fly", "Hill Loch Nymph" and "Iron Blue Wetfly". — Don`t Worry, Be Happy       Sandy —       Website:-  http://www.ftscotland.co.uk     IRC:- Sandyb in #rabble  uk3.arcnet.vapor.com Port:6667      #Rabble Channel Website:- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/rabble              ICQ : 41266150

Response:

These are the flies I use over here in Scotland on hill lochs :- http://www.ftscotland.co.uk/flyindex.html especially the "Dry fly", "Hill Loch Nymph" and "Iron Blue Wetfly".

Thanks for the link Sandy!  It’s good to see someone talk about fly fishing around here…. — Opinions are like assholes.  Everyone’s got one. … and they all stink!

Response:

Thanks for the link Sandy!  It’s good to see someone talk about fly fishing around here….

Yeah, beats the hell out of gratuitous insults, don’t it? Opinions are like assholes.  Everyone’s got one.

makes you superfluous, huh? … and they all stink!

We are pleased to bow to your authority. Wolfgang o.k., who wants to ask how someone comes to know so much about rectal redolence?

Response:

Thanks for the link Sandy!  It’s good to see someone talk about fly fishing around here…. Yeah, beats the hell out of gratuitous insults, don’t it?

Opinions are like assholes.  Everyone’s got one. makes you superfluous, huh?

… and they all stink! We are pleased to bow to your authority.

— Opinions are like assholes.  Everyone’s got one. … and they all stink!

Response:

Question:

If grasshoppers had machine-guns, the birds wouldn’t fuck with them and neither would I for that matter.  <BSEG — Opie  –Planning for the Past–

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If grasshoppers are bopping about then, you can’t beat them.

Response:

I spend the summer there.  If you want to float with a guide, I would suggest the Yellowstone.  It seems the guides will be favoring either the Yellowstone or the Upper Madison, both about a 60 minute ride from Bozeman.  To wade/walk the Gallatin is just outside of Bozeman and flows south to north from Yellowstone National Park.  The other poster is right you’ve got many miles of water (go south, though, not north).  The lower Madison is too warm that time of year to spend time with if you’ve just a few days (it can produce early in the day).  July is caddis time.  The key for next summer will be water flows since the snowpack is only 50% of normal.  If you have time go to West Yellowstone (60 miles south), hire a guide and fish the Park.  The two biggest fly shops in town have websites, The Rivers Edge and Montana Troutfitters. Good Luck

Response:

I have a friend who lives in Livingston, 26 miles east of Bozeman. You have good access to the Madison, Gallatin, and Yellowstone rivers. The Madison is absolutely beautiful, the Gallatin is nice, but the Yellowstone has been the most consistent producer of nice fish for both of us. South of Livinston is Daily Lake, which has nice fish. If grasshoppers are bopping about then, you can’t beat them. In article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Heading to Bozeman this summer in July.  Can anybody offer suggestions on streams/rivers to check while I am there and what to expect while I am doing it?  Anything would be appreciated.  A bit of a break from what I normally do is always welcome and I am really looking forward to it. Thanks.

Response:

Heading to Bozeman this summer in July.  Can anybody offer suggestions on streams/rivers to check while I am there and what to expect while I am doing it?  Anything would be appreciated.  A bit of a break from what I normally do is always welcome and I am really looking forward to it. Thanks. — Capt Gordon Churchill http://www.flyfish-nc.com Guided flyfishing on the Roanoke River and the Crystal Coast of NC out of Atlantic Beach/Morhead City/Beaufort.

Response:

Heading to Bozeman this summer in July.  Can anybody offer suggestions on streams/rivers to check while I am there and what to expect while I am doing it?  Anything would be appreciated.  A bit of a break from what I normally do is always welcome and I am really looking forward to it. Thanks. — Capt Gordon Churchill http://www.flyfish-nc.com Guided flyfishing on the Roanoke River and the Crystal Coast of NC out of Atlantic Beach/Morhead City/Beaufort.

Head north man and you have the Gallitin for 50 miles or more. Joel Axelrad

Response:

Question:

rw, You are beginning to sound like Forty and his objection to squaw,

You really think so? Never mind, then. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Which is one reason why I do it. TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …to paraphrase Robert Lynd (who was talking about playing golf):  It’s almost impossible to remember how tragic a place the world is when one is flyfishing.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines." I feel I must call attention to a serious lack of sensitivity in the flyfishing community. I am of course referring to the use of the term "Chernobyl", as in Chernobyl Ant, Chernobyl Hopper, and several other so-called fly patterns of similar type. Don’t you people realize that over 70,000 Ukranians alone were killed or disabled by the tragedy of the Chernobyl nuclear accident, and that their descendants will continue to suffer the effects, including grotesque mutations and birth defects, for years to come? It is insensitive and irresponsible in the extreme to make light of that deplorable and tragic accident just to make a catchy name for something as frivolous as a fishing fly.

_____  gee r.w.?  You had to post this just when I was about to release the New 2001 products list: 1)  Chernobyl "First Strike" Glow Indicators 2)  Green Chernobyl Fish-Fuzz 3)  Chernobyl (half-life) Sun Tan Cream 4)  The Dirty Nuclear Green Machine Fly 5)  Heavy Hydrogen Sinking Chernobyl Tippets I have more, but out of respect to your point of view, I cannot release these products.

Response:

_____  gee r.w.?  You had to post this just when I was about to release the New 2001 products list: 1)  Chernobyl "First Strike" Glow Indicators

Great product name. George. You may be crazy, but you aren’t stupid. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

RW, I don’t think most of these guys would think it was funny if THEY were on the VA Agent Orange and/or Gulf War Syndrome registry. El Paso Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines." I feel I must call attention to a serious lack of sensitivity in the flyfishing community. I am of course referring to the use of the term "Chernobyl", as in Chernobyl Ant, Chernobyl Hopper, and several other so-called fly patterns of similar type. Don’t you people realize that over 70,000 Ukranians alone were killed or disabled by the tragedy of the Chernobyl nuclear accident, and that their descendants will continue to suffer the effects, including grotesque mutations and birth defects, for years to come? It is insensitive and irresponsible in the extreme to make light of that deplorable and tragic accident just to make a catchy name for something as frivolous as a fishing fly. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

RW, I don’t think most of these guys would think it was funny if THEY were on the VA Agent Orange and/or Gulf War Syndrome registry.

This has nothing to do with anything, but RWJ’s post reminded me of the story: I’ve known a lot of stupid people in my life, but one guy stands out in my memory.   He was a coworker many years ago who, through little fault of his own, had apparently no concept of the world most of us consider normal. From our conversations over the years, I concluded that he’d been raised in a home situation lacking in intellectual stimulation, financial stability, and positive encouragement.   On top of that, he was of small stature, and seemed to feel a constant need to prove that he was both tough and smart. He was, in fact, insecure and not very bright.   But that’s only background. He took up body building, and I believe he seriously thought about pursuing a career as a "professional wrestler".   He began weight lifting, and in his desire to acquire the bodybuilder look, he decided that he needed a tan; and he answered one of those back-of-the-magazine ads for a product that allows you to "tan without the sun".   I don’t know what was in the pills he received, but he took them as directed (knowing him though, probably at twice the dosage).   He was encouraged that his skin did begin to darken, and he continued his regimen.   Ultimately, he turned orange.   Not brightly, of course, but as the color effect intensified over time, there wasn’t a hint of brown to be seen.   He was undoubtedly orange.   He, of course, saw this an a precursor to "tan" and kept taking the pills, until he was unmistakably orange right down to his fingernails. In the end, he only earned the nickname "Agent Orange" that stayed with him for the rest of the time we knew him.   What a character.

Response:

rw, You are beginning to sound like Forty and his objection to squaw, "rw" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I feel I must call attention to a serious lack of sensitivity in the flyfishing community. I am of course referring to the use of the term "Chernobyl", as in Chernobyl Ant, Chernobyl Hopper, and several other so-called fly patterns of similar type. Don’t you people realize that over 70,000 Ukranians alone were killed or disabled by the tragedy of the Chernobyl nuclear accident, and that their descendants will continue to suffer the effects, including grotesque mutations and birth defects, for years to come? It is insensitive and irresponsible in the extreme to make light of that deplorable and tragic accident just to make a catchy name for something as frivolous as a fishing fly.

Response:

…to paraphrase Robert Lynd (who was talking about playing golf):  It’s almost impossible to remember how tragic a place the world is when one is flyfishing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Land mines." — that one is funny until you think about it. Brought to mind the old M.A.S.H. episode in which the Korean family had their child out front when plowing the fields to make sure the family ox wasn’t killed by a land mine.. Joe F. Ya, it’s a realy sad commentary on extreme rural poverty – a child is more expendable than the ox.  Farmers, their children and their animals are still at risk from landmines in much of SE Asia and Africa.  Wonderful legacy of the arms merchants. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Before the Gulf War Barbara Walters did a story on gender roles in Kuwait. She noted that women customarily walked about 10 feet behind their husbands. She returned to Kuwait recently and observed that the men now walked several yards behind their wives. Ms. Walters approached one of the women for an explanation. "This is marvelous," she said, "what enabled women to achieve such respect?"  The Kuwaiti woman replied, "Land mines." — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Before the Gulf War Barbara Walters did a story on gender roles in Kuwait. She noted that women customarily walked about 10 feet behind their husbands. She returned to Kuwait recently and observed that the men now walked several yards behind their wives. Ms. Walters approached one of the women for an explanation. "This is marvelous," she said, "what enabled women to achieve such respect?"  The Kuwaiti woman replied, "Land mines." —

that one is funny until you think about it. Peter

Response:

"Land mines." — that one is funny until you think about it.

Brought to mind the old M.A.S.H. episode in which the Korean family had their child out front when plowing the fields to make sure the family ox wasn’t killed by a land mine.. Joe F.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Land mines." — that one is funny until you think about it. Brought to mind the old M.A.S.H. episode in which the Korean family had their child out front when plowing the fields to make sure the family ox wasn’t killed by a land mine.. Joe F.

Ya, it’s a realy sad commentary on extreme rural poverty – a child is more expendable than the ox.  Farmers, their children and their animals are still at risk from landmines in much of SE Asia and Africa.  Wonderful legacy of the arms merchants. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I shoulda used this tactic with my ex-wife. The insurance money would have bought *several* nice bamboo rods. <g

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before the Gulf War Barbara Walters did a story on gender roles in Kuwait. She noted that women customarily walked about 10 feet behind their husbands. She returned to Kuwait recently and observed that the men now walked several yards behind their wives. Ms. Walters approached one of the women for an explanation. "This is marvelous," she said, "what enabled women to achieve such respect?"  The Kuwaiti woman replied, "Land mines." — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines."

– Charles Reaves

Response:

Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines." — Charles Reaves

I’ve seen a few sites that cover landmines (I think I have them bookmarked somewhere) plus prgrams on Canadian and British demining teams at work in places like Bosnia.   Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Have you seen the sponsored landmine site – sponsorship helps to repair the damage done by these amoral weapons – yeah yeah I know it is the user not the weapon but you get my drift. "Land mines."

I feel I must call attention to a serious lack of sensitivity in the flyfishing community. I am of course referring to the use of the term "Chernobyl", as in Chernobyl Ant, Chernobyl Hopper, and several other so-called fly patterns of similar type. Don’t you people realize that over 70,000 Ukranians alone were killed or disabled by the tragedy of the Chernobyl nuclear accident, and that their descendants will continue to suffer the effects, including grotesque mutations and birth defects, for years to come? It is insensitive and irresponsible in the extreme to make light of that deplorable and tragic accident just to make a catchy name for something as frivolous as a fishing fly. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Question:

    Hi, I have never been in eastern Sierra area, but I am planning to make a photo trip to there soon. Shooting landscape is the major purpose of my trip. My question to you are: (1) ‘What are the top 10 places you think a landscape photographer must visit and shoot?’

Alabama Hills (very hot in summer) Mono Lake Lee Vining Creek Yosemite Hot Creek Use your eyes and you will find plenty. — http://www.fnet.net/~ellis/photo/

Response:

Having just gotten back from there I would add Bodie state park if you like ghost towns. I would also recommend a couple of sites at mono lake 1.  The south toufa (sp?) walk and tour 2.  The panum crater walk and tour. of course you can’t go wrong with anything in Yosemite. Make sure you have a place to stay before you go. btb

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Hi, I have never been in eastern Sierra area, but I am planning to make a photo trip to there soon. Shooting landscape is the major purpose of my trip. My question to you are: (1) ‘What are the top 10 places you think a landscape photographer must visit and shoot?’ Alabama Hills (very hot in summer) Mono Lake Lee Vining Creek Yosemite Hot Creek Use your eyes and you will find plenty. — http://www.fnet.net/~ellis/photo/

Response:

(2) Best guide book for photo trip to Eastern Sierra    Any feedback/suggestions are appreciated. Ronald

Take a look at California’s Eastern Sierra, A Vistor’s Guide by Sue Irwin (Cachuma Press). Good photos and info and only $18. Claude

Response:

Ronald, The Eastern Sierra is beautiful any time ofyear or day.  I suggest starting at one end of the Owens Valley and work your way through it, using your imagination.  You will no doubt find some spots of your own that are just as good or better than any that can be recommended. Bob Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Come on over to my website and check out my sections on Mono Lake, Rock Creek, and the White Mountains. That will give you some ideas for shooting. I have some commentary there also in the different sections pertaining to those locations. http://www.californiapictures.com It is a good time now to shoot wildflowers in Mammoth Lakes. Go to Reds Meadow early, I mean early or you can’t drive your car. They will make you ride the trams after 6:30AM. They are trying to keep the traffic out. Dale Proctor * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Everyone has talked about Mono Lake, personally I haven’t been there, been close.  That is on a list of to-go places, however, I’ve been to Bodie which is a ghost town.  I think it is one of the nicest ghost towns that I’ve been to and would recommend it to others. Would need to gage your timing for lighting, etc. * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Hi, Mono Lake is, without question, unique. But there are many other places of charm and beauty. On the web, start at http://www.395.com  This will give you links to about every place you’ll want to visit. It all depends on your tastes of course. In the Mammoth Lakes area, there are many opportunities to shoot wild flowers. Also consider Devil’s Postpile and Rainbow falls. The lakes basin is also nice with long and short hikes of various degrees of difficulty. The Mammoth Ranger Station can be very helpful! South of Mammoth Lakes you will find Convict Lake (morning shot), Hot Creek geo-thermal area (and fly fishing), McGee creek, and Little Lakes Valley. Little Lakes Valley is a very nice walk, spectacular at times, and not too strenuous, despite the high elevation. North of Mammoth is Lundy Canyon, fantastic in the fall.  The June Lake loop is another possibiliby, just south of Lee Vining. Lee Vining is, of course, where you will find Mono Lake as well as the eastern entrance to Yosemite via Tioga Pass. This is a fantastic road, an engineering feat (and perfectly safe), with grand vistas to the east. Tuolomne Meadows, just a few miles inside the park will give you a taste of granit domes. Before the park entrace is a road to the right (north) that takes you to Saddle Bag Lake. North of Lee Vining, about 5 mi before you get to Bridgeport, is the turn off to Bodie. Great pictures here! But watch the sun. The park is open from 9:00 am to 7:00 pm in the summer. You can shoot in August until about 10:30 am and then again after about 3:30. When the sun is low you get wonderful colors in the wooden buildings. When the sun is high, you can try to take some interiors through windows. Shooting anywhere in the Eastern Sierra generally requires a polarizer (but be careful; if you polarize to strongly the sky will turn almost black). Also, because of the altitude and thin atmosphere there is a lot of blue coming through. A 81A or 81B (better) will give you truer colors. One last tip. Watch the dust! A lot of it is pumice and it can scratch your glass. (Actually pumice is the foam form of the black obsidion, which is  volcanic glass.)  If you are interested, I have a section on Bodie on my webpage with links to other sites. (I’m in the process of re-doing the sections on Sierra Wild Flowers and the Eastern Sierra.)  http://toms_place_2.tripod.com Enjoy your trip! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      Hi, I have never been in eastern Sierra area, but I am planning to make a photo trip to there soon. Shooting landscape is the major purpose of my trip. My question to you are: (1) ‘What are the top 10 places you think a landscape photographer must visit and shoot?’ (2) Best guide book for photo trip to Eastern Sierra     Any feedback/suggestions are appreciated. Ronald

Response:

     Hi, I have never been in eastern Sierra area, but I am planning to make a photo trip to there soon. Shooting landscape is the major purpose of my trip. My question to you are: (1) ‘What are the top 10 places you think a landscape photographer must visit and shoot?’ (2) Best guide book for photo trip to Eastern Sierra     Any feedback/suggestions are appreciated. Ronald

  shourong.shu.vcf

< 1K Download

Response:

Mono LAke. If it is no #1 then it is #2 or 3. Shoot at sunrise. GO th day before to scope out the area then come back for sunrise. With a little luch you will have clouds inte western sky andit will explode with color. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

     Hi, I have never been in eastern Sierra area, but I am planning to make a photo trip to there soon. Shooting landscape is the major purpose of my trip. My question to you are: (1) ‘What are the top 10 places you think a landscape photographer must visit and shoot?’

Besides putting Mono Lake at the top of the list, here are some ideas in no particular order: – Mono Lake   See my "East of the Sierra" web gallery for some images from Mono Lake   (http://www.designsinlight.com/gallery.htm) – Alambama Hills   Near Lone Pine and Mt. Whitney, and where many westerns were shot. – White & Inyo Mountains – Bristlecone Pine forest   Some of the oldest living things in the world (4000+ years) and very cool looking   Some info: http://www.sonic.net/bristlecone/WhiteMts.html – Bodie ghost town – June Lake One meteorlogical feature to keep an eye out for is lenticular clouds. They form where there is a strong, steady wind blowing over mountains, in places like Owens Valley east of the Sierra Nevada. They can make for some spectacular skies, especially at sunrise or sunset. Have fun! It’s a beautiful part of the world. gene — Gene Anderson http://www.designsinlight.com/

Response:

Question:

_______  The wading life vest is a good idea anymore the older you get. Of course its a good idea no matter how old you are.  The Madison has slick rounded stones in it and falling is easy enough and no matter how deep the water of any river you’re in, its more difficult to get back up on your feet. The most dangerous thing anyone can do when they fall and start floating down stream is holding onto their fly rod and then exhausting themselves with energy they could have spent more wisely getting back to shore. Let the fly rod go! — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

I agree 1000%  I just bought a Stearns vest with the flotation built in.  It doesn’t have some of the bells and whistles, e.g., Supplex, net loop, but I value the safety feature above everything else. Jim Benenson Los Alamos NM’ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – _______  The wading life vest is a good idea anymore the older you get. Of course its a good idea no matter how old you are.  The Madison has slick rounded stones in it and falling is easy enough and no matter how deep the water of any river you’re in, its more difficult to get back up on your feet. The most dangerous thing anyone can do when they fall and start floating down stream is holding onto their fly rod and then exhausting themselves with energy they could have spent more wisely getting back to shore. Let the fly rod go! — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

The most dangerous thing anyone can do when they fall and start floating down stream is holding onto their fly rod and then exhausting themselves with energy they could have spent more wisely getting back to shore.

The next most dangerous thing you can do when fishing is to let safety equipment substitute for common sense. A fly vest with flotation built in is a good idea; wearing one so you can wade deep, swift water that you normally wouldn’t wade is a very bad idea. (I know you weren’t suggesting that, George. Just thought it needed mentioning.) — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

: Stephen, : Good story – I’ve not yet trout fished in Victoria, but I was down Victoria : way over the last four or five days working at Warragul (very exciting). I : drove over the Goulburn River and King Parrot Creek between Seymour and Yea. : How far from there do you fish? Geeze I hope you didn’t get fried … King Parrot produced my second trout I used to get there regularly, but the Breakaway is a lot further upstream on the Goulburn, and this is where I spend most of my time up that way now.   By Seymour, the Goulburn becomes a bit too cloudy for fly-fishing but its still good at the King Parrot … and even if not the Parrot is/was a lot of fun. IMO Better fishing is to be had in the Kiewa, King, Ovens Rivers … but its a little far – even for a weekend. BTW: I look forward to seeing more about your Sunday mornings Steve — http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~steve/fush/

Response:

SNIPPED Geeze I hope you didn’t get fried …

I was at a three day outdoor truck show – we got fried (up to 38), frozen (down to 10), wet (pissed down) and wind blown (white caps in farm dams). Damn good fishing weather ! JK

Response:

: I was at a three day outdoor truck show – we got fried (up to 38), frozen : (down to 10), wet (pissed down) and wind blown (white caps in farm dams). : Damn good fishing weather ! *laugh* Pretty standard summer fair steve — http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~steve/fush/

Response:

Damn, it was 3 AM this morning, and there I was wide awake and full of anticipation.

Oh yes!  I know that feeling. I look forward to meeting them all again…’Sfunny how you remember the good, the poignant, the others just fade away in memory.

Having shoveled snow once again this morning, yours was a welcome story. Mu, in the northern hemisphere.

Response:

Stephen, Good story – I’ve not yet trout fished in Victoria, but I was down Victoria way over the last four or five days working at Warragul (very exciting). I drove over the Goulburn River and King Parrot Creek between Seymour and Yea. How far from there do you fish? Cheers JK

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Damn, it was 3 AM this morning, and there I was wide awake and full of anticipation.  Yes, I enjoy my fishing that much, I wake at ungodly hours wondering if its time to get going. Some days 3am would be right but not today, I’m doing an afternoon in the hills and evening rise on the meadows … silly brain.  As much as it can be frustrating I think I actually enjoy the sense of anticipation that is apparently triggered by the pre-trip rituals – cleaning the line, replenishing the boxes, cleaning specs and checking leaders. The time of year brings me to change water – a change due about now – these changes bring on nostalgia attacks replete with memories of past conquests and some characters. Simon and I met at the upper limits of an upstream stroll from the Breakaway Bridge on the Goulburn river.  The usual banter resulted in my showing Simon where I’d had a couple of fish and picking a nymph from his box, showing him where to cast it.  To sit back and watch him catch his first fish from the Goulburn after a "couple of years of tryin’" was by far the best thing about that day … by the grin on his face you’d reckon he had a five pounder … I haven’t seen him to talk to since, though I’ve seen him on the other bank while he watched a mate fish … This time last year I encountered Kurt at the Breakaway a couple of times. Kurt is what you’d describe as a character and, as with most characters, he tends to use or elicit colourful language so you may wish to skip the next paragraph or two. My first whiff of Kurt  was literally that – a waft of roll-your-own tobacco smoke carried on the breeze.   The grass along this section is over head high and my call bought no response … never mind I was still basking in the afterglow of having a good fish inhale my fly. Another whiff, a lot stronger this time, and there he was built like a drover’s dog, salt and pepper beard – moustache stained below the nostrils. Pointing to his fag end – "G’day, I’ve been smellin’ you for 10 minutes." "Yeah, I’m a smelly curt." Well with a comeback like that how could you not get on with the retired coot – a week at home with the missus, a week on the wallaby fishin’ – quite a life I’d say. The thing that was really memorable about Kurt was his language – "Effing curt" this or that … yet he never called me as much as a dopey bugger when I hung up in the greenery … he never cursed fish that got off – "Too effing tight/loose, Kurt", water "When will you learn to Effing read the water Kurt, Effwit!", trees or even other anglers who wandered to close. We shared the same backwaters – usually well away from each other sometimes together – He showed me a few things about those backwaters, how to fish them long where I prefer to fish them short.  He did have a pet hate, never ever under any circumstances should you even think of tying let alone use "one of those pheasant tails with the peacock thorax".  The last phrase dripped with such loathing I didn’t press him … perhaps this year. That was then, today is a different water, one where: I’ve showed a Scot the virtues of a Yellow Humpy, Spotted for John while he cast his lures, got skunked with Louis of Chile … One evening I met a bloke at the access – a bloke with a flyrod and a mobile phone – "Waiting for the surgeon to call …". His pallor should have tipped me that he wasn’t that well, of course it may have been a loved one but I doubt it … an offer to walk with him was rejected. He’d "stay near the car and fish the nearby pools- I just want to fish a bit."  He and the car were gone when I returned- I don’t remember the fishing that night, but I do remember him. I look forward to meeting them all again…’Sfunny how you remember the good, the poignant, the others just fade away in memory. steve — http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~steve/fush/

Response:

Damn, it was 3 AM this morning, and there I was wide awake and full of anticipation.  Yes, I enjoy my fishing that much, I wake at ungodly hours wondering if its time to get going. Some days 3am would be right but not today, I’m doing an afternoon in the hills and evening rise on the meadows … silly brain.  As much as it can be frustrating I think I actually enjoy the sense of anticipation that is apparently triggered by the pre-trip rituals – cleaning the line, replenishing the boxes, cleaning specs and checking leaders.   The time of year brings me to change water – a change due about now – these changes bring on nostalgia attacks replete with memories of past conquests and some characters. Simon and I met at the upper limits of an upstream stroll from the Breakaway Bridge on the Goulburn river.  The usual banter resulted in my showing Simon where I’d had a couple of fish and picking a nymph from his box, showing him where to cast it.  To sit back and watch him catch his first fish from the Goulburn after a "couple of years of tryin’" was by far the best thing about that day … by the grin on his face you’d reckon he had a five pounder … I haven’t seen him to talk to since, though I’ve seen him on the other bank while he watched a mate fish … This time last year I encountered Kurt at the Breakaway a couple of times. Kurt is what you’d describe as a character and, as with most characters, he tends to use or elicit colourful language so you may wish to skip the next paragraph or two. My first whiff of Kurt  was literally that – a waft of roll-your-own tobacco smoke carried on the breeze.   The grass along this section is over head high and my call bought no response … never mind I was still basking in the afterglow of having a good fish inhale my fly. Another whiff, a lot stronger this time, and there he was built like a drover’s dog, salt and pepper beard – moustache stained below the nostrils. Pointing to his fag end – "G’day, I’ve been smellin’ you for 10 minutes." "Yeah, I’m a smelly curt." Well with a comeback like that how could you not get on with the retired coot – a week at home with the missus, a week on the wallaby fishin’ – quite a life I’d say.   The thing that was really memorable about Kurt was his language – "Effing curt" this or that … yet he never called me as much as a dopey bugger when I hung up in the greenery … he never cursed fish that got off – "Too effing tight/loose, Kurt", water "When will you learn to Effing read the water Kurt, Effwit!", trees or even other anglers who wandered to close.   We shared the same backwaters – usually well away from each other sometimes together – He showed me a few things about those backwaters, how to fish them long where I prefer to fish them short.  He did have a pet hate, never ever under any circumstances should you even think of tying let alone use "one of those pheasant tails with the peacock thorax".  The last phrase dripped with such loathing I didn’t press him … perhaps this year. That was then, today is a different water, one where: I’ve showed a Scot the virtues of a Yellow Humpy, Spotted for John while he cast his lures, got skunked with Louis of Chile … One evening I met a bloke at the access – a bloke with a flyrod and a mobile phone – "Waiting for the surgeon to call …". His pallor should have tipped me that he wasn’t that well, of course it may have been a loved one but I doubt it … an offer to walk with him was rejected. He’d "stay near the car and fish the nearby pools- I just want to fish a bit."  He and the car were gone when I returned- I don’t remember the fishing that night, but I do remember him.   I look forward to meeting them all again…’Sfunny how you remember the good, the poignant, the others just fade away in memory. steve — http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~steve/fush/

Response:

Question:

Hi I am off pretty soon for Spring break also, I live just outside of Spokane Wa. for a while I lived in Grangeville ID, Where is a good place to go around here? I moved here about a year and a half ago, but worked it mostly, so I didn’t get out much… I know the canyons at Hell’s gate, or Pittsburgh landing, near White bird ID, should be warming up just a touch, like 65-70, which to me is real warm.. at this point. Or go to Lewiston ID or the S.E. Or side of the Snake river.. I can’t decide… What’s going on now? I mean hatch wise… I also heard the Henry’s Fork was good also in the middle of to end of march.. Any body have any info? Thanks!  R.J. Baynum ICQ 29449252

Response:

<<Hi I am off pretty soon for Spring break also, I live just outside of Spokane Wa. for a while I lived in Grangeville ID, Where is a good place to go around here? I moved here about a year and a half ago, but worked it mostly, so I didn’t get out much… I know the canyons at Hell’s gate, or Pittsburgh landing, near White bird ID, should be warming up just a touch, like 65-70, which to me is real warm.. at this point. Or go to Lewiston ID or the S.E. Or side of the Snake river.. I can’t decide… What’s going on now? I mean hatch wise… I also heard the Henry’s Fork was good also in the middle of to end of march.. Any body have any info? Thanks!  R.J. Baynum ICQ 29449252 Hey R.J.  We need to hook up and go flyfishing together.  I too live about 20 minutes South of Spokane and am always looking for new fishing buddies. The best bet for this time of year is the St. Joe by St. Maries, ID.  Call Propps Fly Shop or the Silver Bow for water conditions and hatch information. They can also direct you to what else is hot right now. There is also some tremendous lake fishing starting to happen in the Columbia Basin.  If  you want to get into some fish over the 20 inch mark the Lake Lenice or Lenore are the places to be. Email me and let’s plan a trip. Mike Wilson

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Question:

You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

I understand that the Cherokee was never built on a truck chassis, a remanufactured car chassis was used. As for me, my 1978 4×4 Chevy Blazer with 264,000 miles with tattered seats but Michelin radials provides me with all the back country access I could ever want.

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Another dissatisfied Cherokee (1988) owner here.  To be fair, I purchased mine just before American Motors was purchased by Chrysler.  Anyway, the engine crapped out before 50K miles, and it had been cared for in a manner better than was recommended in the owner’s manual.  Also, I had an extended warranty on the vehicle (paid extra for of course).  Anyway, the "adjuster" from Chrysler reviewed my claim and disallowed it because "it was obviously abused or it wouldn’t have had the problem."  Went round and round, countless letters, I replaced the engine (at my cost) and vowed I would never purchase another (now) Chrysler product, ever!!  Later, I read in a news account about the numbers of Jeeps that had similar problems.  I now have a Toyota 4Runner, with no complaints after 90K+ miles.  Change the oil every 3K miles, follow recommended maintenance, new gas once a week and air the tires once a month.  It runs and runs and runs….. — Ron Eaton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Your brother’s pickup reminds me of a 1970 Datsun pickup I bought in 1980 for $500.  The speedometer had broken at 100K and it was beat up, but the engine purred like a kitten.  It was the same engine they used in the 280Z sports car.  I fixed the dents, slapped a coat of paint on it, installed some shocks, king pins, tires, and a set of brakes, then took it fishing all over the Sierra Nevada Mountains in Northern California for the next ten years.  It went every place a road crossed a trout stream.  There wasn’t much head room and I kept the seat belt tight because the overload springs could put your head through the roof, and I didn’t lean on the door because a sharp bump could put the window crank through your rib cage, but it was a great fishing vehicle.  Finally sold it to a guy for $500 who wanted it for his gardening business. — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   My brother Paul drives the ultimate fish car. He has a go anywhere, tough as nails, fix it yourself, park it and don’t worry, $700 1967 Ford pickup. The vehicle has panache, driving to the river in it gives me a feeling of adventure

Response:

Could it be that the people who have trouble with Jeeps are the people who actually take them off road?  I know for a fact that the Nort Carolina beaches will wreak havoc on some vehicles!

Response:

Could it be that the people who have trouble with Jeeps are the people who actually take them off road?  I know for a fact that the Nort Carolina beaches will wreak havoc on some vehicles!

I used to take mine off road but don’t so much anymore since I got my D90. The Cherokee did OK off road though. FWIW. Charlie…

Response:

Driving on a salt water beach will raise hell with most vehicles unless you hose it down thoroughly with fresh water when you are through.  We drove down the beach in Northern California to go smelt dipping and perch fishing with a jeep, but always hosed it down and never had a problem.  Of course this was in 1948.:-) — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could it be that the people who have trouble with Jeeps are the people who actually take them off road?  I know for a fact that the Nort Carolina beaches will wreak havoc on some vehicles!

Response:

Sorry this message is not related to 4X4’s (but I will be driving a 98 Dodge real soon) rather I wqs wondering if anyone from Alberta"Canada used this newsgroup? And I am in the market for a new 4-5 weight 81/2 foot rod? Any good sug?  Anyway…have fun and may the trout rise…(corny).

Response:

You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight.

Hell I drive a Taurus Sedan myself. It pulls up nicely to the lots that are only a few steps or a short walk down into the stream I seen a neat little comic about 4 wheel drive, something in the order when the guy was ready to pull out of a supermarket, he felt it was time to put it in 4 wd to go over a speed bump.  Sounds like most of the 4wd’s in our area…. — Randy P.E.T.A. people eating tasty animals

Response:

If you want a reliable vehicle buy a Toyota 4WD pickup — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one. T. Rick Fletcher  

Response:

My "fish car" is a five year old Toyota 4X4 pickup. Total maintenance costs (so far) consists of oil, filters, and one set of tires. Goes anywhere and always starts.   My wife drives the hated Grand Cherokee. I’d take it fishing if she’d let me, it’s more comfortable and more powerful than my Toyota, and the stereo really cranks. I think the Jeep straight six is one tough motor, it’s the niggling details (power windows, A/C) that keep it in the shop.   My brother Paul drives the ultimate fish car. He has a go anywhere, tough as nails, fix it yourself, park it and don’t worry, $700 1967 Ford pickup. The vehicle has panache, driving to the river in it gives me a feeling of adventure, we’re going FISHING by golly, and we ain’t a couple of downtown dudes in a goll-dern Range Rover. Charlie, going shopping for a beater.

Response:

You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Tim Somehow you didn’t strike me as one who would fall for the hype in CR. You don’t really believe that crap that they spew do you?

Response:

I bought my Grand Cherokee Ltd. in June of ‘94, fully loaded, for 30K (The Toyota Land Cruiser is 40+ K).  Have kept up routine maintenance.  Two major problems have been solved by warranty service.  I got exactly what I thought I’d get.  A luxury ride no matter where I go.  It’ll go anywhere any of the vehicles already mentioned will go. I’ve got the funds to enjoy it, so why shouldn’t I.  Eat your hearts out.                                                            -dnc-

Response:

  I bought my Grand Cherokee Ltd. in June of ‘94, fully loaded, for 30K (The   Toyota Land Cruiser is 40+ K).  Have kept up routine maintenance.  Two   major problems have been solved by warranty service.  I got exactly what I   thought I’d get.  A luxury ride no matter where I go.  It’ll go anywhere   any of the vehicles already mentioned will go.

If this vehicle is so great, why are you bothering to defend it on this anonymous forum?  A 2 year old vehicle with "2 major problems" – by what crazy definition is that a good investment or vehicle?  I’ve got the funds to enjoy it, so why shouldn’t I.  Eat your hearts out.

I didn’t realize that it is required that one has to be a complete ass to buy one of these.   Take this crap over to the 4×4 newsgroups.  It is of no relevance to flyfishing. -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

Response:

You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight.

I don’t read CS but I have an ‘87 Cherokee that is the most trouble free vehicle I have ever owned. Don’t know much about the newer ones but I do know that CS doesn’t have a very good reputation on rec.autos.4×4. YMMV of course. — Charlie…

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. I don’t read CS but I have an ‘87 Cherokee that is the most trouble free vehicle I have ever owned. Don’t know much about the newer ones but I do know that CS doesn’t have a very good reputation on rec.autos.4×4. YMMV of course. — Charlie…

Consumer reports bases it’s ratings on reader responses – ie if you complain to them. Phil Edmonstons "Lemon Aide" guide uses the manufacturers own Maintenance service bulletins that advise dealers exactly what sort of problems are being reported from the field. However this guide is generally negative on the Cherokee. Phil likes to say when confronted by experience like yours Charlie: "goes to prove you can’t always make a bad car!    " Ralph H remove "(take_this_out)" for email reply.

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Tim, I’ve got a Cherokee that’s a few years old and I’ve had zero problems with it.  The big concern with me was the apparent thinness of the brake rotors that had to be replaced if they were turned too much by over-enthusiastic repairmen.  The 1996 models have thicker rotors that withstand the turning a lot better.  All the Jeep owners that I know love them and the only dis-satisfied owners I know, 3, were Grand Cherokee owners. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

: I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one. — Rick

Rick, I sold my V-6 Blazer with 139,000 miles to help pay for my Jeep with 50,000 on it.  I owned the Blazer for 9 years, that was long enough.  In the last two years, new ball joints, radiator, gas tank, etc., etc., but never touched the engine or tranny.  I saw the buyer the other day and he said it’s going great. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

You guys are foolin’ yerselves about the Jeep Cherokee.  It has the absolutely most abyssmal maintenance record of just about any vehicle on earth, 4WD or otherwise. This is Consumer Reports talking..check it out for yourself.  I have known so many disgusted Cherokee owners (well 2, specifically…) that I would not touch one with a 10 foot 12 weight. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   But isn’t a Lmtd. Ed. Grand SuperDuper Cherokee available?  That’s the one many of us laugh at… and it’s not because it is a waste of metal, it is a pretty automobile… it’s because the idea of taking a leather upholstered, shiny $40,000 car into the mud is silly.  And many view it as posing.  Expalin the number of HumVee’s cruising around Sun Valley… While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one.

  I will entertain $10,000 for my 87  ;-) Harry

Response:

: I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   But isn’t a Lmtd. Ed. Grand SuperDuper Cherokee available?  That’s the one many of us laugh at… and it’s not because it is a waste of metal, it is a pretty automobile… it’s because the idea of taking a leather upholstered, shiny $40,000 car into the mud is silly.  And many view it as posing.  Expalin the number of HumVee’s cruising around Sun Valley… While we are back on this, I would recommend looking into the V6 Chevy S-10 Blazer to find a great 4 WD.  $1000 to drop a new engine in at some point (around 120K miles), $600 new ball joints around 150K and that sucker will run forever.)  By one that is used, if you can find someone who will sell one. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

: I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility : vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s : class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting : to back-county brookie waters.   I too have the loathed Cherokee.  I took a lot of ribbing from my father when I bought it.  He has a pickup.  It ended when I showed him what I paid.  Compared to his full-sized pickup, the Cherokee was practically cheap. I spend a lot of time in the backcountry, can only afford one automobile, and need more passenger space than a pickup. I shopped around, and the Cherokee (not the GRAND Cherokee) is the best value around. Sure, if you never take it off road, you might as well buy a minivan.  Although have you seen the prices on mini-vans – EEK maybe that’s why SUV’s are so popular? My $0.02,      - Ken — Ken Janik Oregon State University Dept of Electrical and Computer Engineering

Response:

. . .  it seems like fly fishing is just another political party. When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart? This isn’t to down-talk fly fishing, I love it, but every influence says that it isn’t fly fishing unless you drive a yuppified sport utility with Eddie Bauer, LL Bean or some other clothing manufacturer’s name on the side of it, wear waders,

People who take their fishing values from pictures are like people who value their food according to how it looks in pictures.  Most fly anglers are thinking people, and what thinking person rates enjoyment (music or mountaineering) by photographs? — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

 Its Bryce back to stir up trouble With all of the pictures and other influences, it seems like fly fishing is just another political party. When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart?

Yup, I have to confess. Back in 87 my wife and kids gave me a K-Mart Browning 8 1/2 ft. 6 weight for my birthday. It was kinda of hard to act surprised in a good way but I believe I pulled it off. Now I love that rob and there’s not a dab of cork on the thing. I’m off to the Cherokee National Forest next week and guess which rod’s going along——it’s already in the, well, Cherokee. Cheers, Randy Giles

Response:

Hello.  Its Bryce back to stir up trouble With all of the pictures and other influences, it seems like fly fishing is just another political party. When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart? This isn’t to down-talk fly fishing, I love it, but every influence says that it isn’t fly fishing unless you drive a yuppified sport utility with Eddie Bauer, LL Bean or some other clothing manufacturer’s name on the side of it, wear waders, have a rod that costs 200 dollars. Oh, and I forgot that it is impossible to catch fish unless you have every new thing on the market. I kno tha there are some who are in it to have a chalenging way of catching fish, but alot of the "fly fishers" are just yuppies. I can tell that most in this newsgroup are not that way, so I want your input. Thanks. BryceC

Response:

Hello.  Its Bryce back to stir up trouble . When is the last time that you saw a magazine picture of a fly fisherman in regular clothes with a rod that he got at K-mart? This isn’t to down-talk fly fishing, I love it, but every influence says that it isn’t fly fishing unless you drive a yuppified sport utility with Eddie Bauer, LL Bean or some other clothing manufacturer’s name on the side of it, wear waders, have a rod that costs 200 dollars. your input. Thanks. BryceC

I know exactly how you feel.  The funny thing is, I drive a sport utility vehicle (the loathed Cherokee – actually the cheapest vehicle in it’s class) – living in Maine, the 4wd comes in very handy, especially getting to back-county brookie waters.  And yes, after 20+ years of fishing with a Shakespeare I bought at K-Mart, it started coming apart at the ferrule, and I went to Beans’s outlet and bought a marked-down Guide rod.  I did have an earlier thread complaining that I’m hard pressed to see the improvement over the Shakespeare, fine equipment can be had without spending a lot of money.  As for the waders, I skip them in the summer, but if I’m not in a boat or canoe this time of year, the water’s too cold without them. The thing that really sets me apart, though, is I still eat trout on occasion. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Question:

I’ am trying to decide whether to buy the Orvis 4 wgt.  Brook Trout combo($295) or the L.L.  Bean 4 wgt.  Guide combo($275).  The only difference seems to be thatOrvis has a more expensive rod and L.L.  Bean has a more expensive reel and the$20 diff, which I’am not concerned with.  help me.  thanks.

Response:

: I’ am trying to decide whether to buy the Orvis 4 wgt.  Brook Trout : combo($295) or the L.L.  Bean 4 wgt.  Guide combo($275).  The only : difference seems to be thatOrvis has a more expensive rod and L.L.  Bean : has a more expensive reel and the$20 diff, which I’am not concerned : with.  help me.  thanks. I would check out the GLoomis GL3..I’ve heard great things bout them Frankie

Response:

: I’ am trying to decide whether to buy the Orvis 4 wgt.  Brook Trout : combo($295) or the L.L.  Bean 4 wgt.  Guide combo($275).  The only : difference seems to be thatOrvis has a more expensive rod and L.L.  Bean : has a more expensive reel and the$20 diff, which I’am not concerned : with.  help me.  thanks. I would check out the GLoomis GL3..I’ve heard great things bout them Frankie

…And more…*($^#&#Y  For a little more you could pick up an Orvis PM….the 8′4" is pretty nice. just another option steve d.

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: I’ am trying to decide whether to buy the Orvis 4 wgt.  Brook Trout : combo($295) or the L.L.  Bean 4 wgt.  Guide combo($275).  The only : difference seems to be thatOrvis has a more expensive rod and L.L.  Bean : has a more expensive reel and the$20 diff, which I’am not concerned : with.  help me.  thanks.

The Bean reels are heavier than the Orvis reels.  This may be good or it may be bad.  It depends on how you like to balance your outfit.  My Henry’s Fork balances nicely with a Battenkill 5/6 Disc; I do not want the extra weight of a Bean Guide reel. I am picking nits.  I am sure that you would be happy with either (or both!). — Keep your stick on the ice.

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: I’ am trying to decide whether to buy the Orvis 4 wgt.  Brook Trout : combo($295) or the L.L.  Bean 4 wgt.  Guide combo($275).  The only : difference seems to be thatOrvis has a more expensive rod and L.L.  Bean : has a more expensive reel and the$20 diff, which I’am not concerned : with.  help me.  thanks. The Bean reels are heavier than the Orvis reels.  This may be good or it may be bad.  It depends on how you like to balance your outfit.  My Henry’s Fork balances nicely with a Battenkill 5/6 Disc; I do not want the extra weight of a Bean Guide reel. I am picking nits.  I am sure that you would be happy with either (or both!).

I know this is going to start a war but…. From what I have seen LL Bean is a great clothing store but they don’t seem to produce (or re-package with their name) equipment of the quality you can get from Orvis.  I would go with the Orvis every time. Well time to climb into the bomb shelter ! Tom

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I’ am trying to decide whether to buy the Orvis 4 wgt.  Brook Trout : combo($295) or the L.L.  Bean 4 wgt.  Guide combo($275).  The only : difference seems to be thatOrvis has a more expensive rod and L.L.  Bean : has a more expensive reel and the$20 diff, which I’am not concerned : with.  help me.  thanks. The Bean reels are heavier than the Orvis reels.  This may be good or it may be bad.  It depends on how you like to balance your outfit.  My Henry’s Fork balances nicely with a Battenkill 5/6 Disc; I do not want the extra weight of a Bean Guide reel. I am picking nits.  I am sure that you would be happy with either (or both!). I know this is going to start a war but…. From what I have seen LL Bean is a great clothing store but they don’t seem to produce (or re-package with their name) equipment of the quality you can get from Orvis.  I would go with the Orvis every time. Well time to climb into the bomb shelter ! Tom

INCOMMMMMINNNNNNGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!

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        I personally wouldn’t choose a combo from either Orvis of L.L.Bean. I think you could do yourself a favor by putting your own set-up together. G.Loomis, Thomas & Thomas, and Powell make rods in your price range that offer good actions and strong warranties. As far as reels go, I would suggest a Ross Cimmeron or a Orvis Battenkill in your price range. These reels are probably more than you need for a 4 weight rod.         I hope my butting in was not taking wrong. The only thing I wanted to do is help. If I can be of further assistance my e-mail address

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I know this is going to start a war but…. From what I have seen LL Bean is a great clothing store but they don’t seem to produce (or re-package with their name) equipment of the quality you can get from Orvis.  I would go with the Orvis every time.

No war, Tom, just a difference of opinion. I think the quality of L.L. Bean fly fishing gear is every bit as good as Orvis and offers better value as well. The Angler series is a wonderful choice for someone getting into fly fishing who wants to buy stuff they will fish with for a lifetime as opposed to so much of the entry-level stuff that is just not so well made. (I suppose the Orvis Clearwater series is probably very nice, too, but I haven’t seen that stuff yet.) In addition, L.L. Bean is a model of customer service and offers their unconditional lifetime guarantee on everything they sell. I go with L.L. Bean every time I can. (And no, I don’t work for Bean’s, hold their stock, or anything else like that.) – Scott — Sustaining and Specials Engineering     voice: 508 952-4792 Xyplex, Inc.                            fax: 508 952-4887 295 Foster St.                          (Opinions, comments, etc. are mine, Littleton, MA 01460                                     not Xyplex’s…)

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Actually, the LLBean Guide & LL series rods are built on Loomis blanks. (Call ‘em up; they’ll tell you who makes any of the fishing gear for them.) The Bean guarantee is basically "whatever, forever". Friends have even sent back leaky old waders for repair/replacement/credit. Orvis rods are fine if you like the generally slower actions, and don’t mind the ugly blanks .

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I know this is going to start a war but…. From what I have seen LL Bean is a great clothing store but they don’t seem to produce (or re-package with their name) equipment of the quality you can get from Orvis.  I would go with the Orvis every time.

Misattribution.  I am a big LL Bean fan, and if the Canadian dollar were spunkier I would buy much more from them. Joke:  The Royal Canadian Mint has come up with a name for the new $2 CDN coin: an American dollar. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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Buying a rod without casting it is always tricky.  I know the bass pond sends rods out for demo’s.  Orvis rods have a consistentcy of action, that I learned to appreciate as I sold them and fished them.  The actions vary between the different class of rods but there is a consistency overall that is hard to explain.  Keep shopping and you’ll find what you like at a price you can afford.  I prefer, an early 9ft sage 1st generation 4-5 five weight, the Orvis western 9ft 3wt, 8-6 2wt and the fullflex 6wt BMckinley Mpls

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LLOOMIS   L O O M I S   L    O    O    M    I    S   REGARDS MATT

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Question:

Has nay of the national magazines had any reports about whirling disease? about eating Great Lakes fish. "In-Fisherman" provided some in-depth coverage, and was rewarded with the loss of over $250K of advertising revenue. "Outdoor Life", knowing which side its bread was buttered on, published a blistering editorial calling the advisory 16 kinds of crap. No loss of advertising for these pillars of journalistic integrity

  This may be true in the case of Outdoor Life, but not in the case of Fly Fisherman. I have been in touch with Dave Engerbretson, who often contributes to this group, and he informs me that John Randolph and John Holt are not only aware of the whirling disease issue, but are preparing a story. Keep in mind that glossy magazines are usually layed out and printed 3 or so issues in advance, and that the Madison River story broke less than a month ago. Why the Colorado story hasn’t received more press is a mystery. But it soon will.   Tim Walker recently sent me a zeroxed/faxed copy of an article that appeared in the Angling Report, summarizing recent whirling disease developments in Colorado. The news is very bad. Taken at face value, it appears there has been *no* natural reproduction of Rainbows, for three seasons now, in parts of the Colorado, Gunnison, South Platte and Arkansas rivers. How do *you* define disaster? The only good news I have heard yet, is that Cutthroats and Brookies are somewhat resistant, at least by comparison with Rainbows. —

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Peter – I suspect that you will get several responses to your post, and certainly some that are more scientific than I can be, so I will just reply briefly.  If, for some reason, you don’t get a fuller reply, send me a post and I will send more information. First, the disease is a neurological disorder that affects the fish’s system and causes it to swim in circles (thusthe name).   the fis weaken and ultimately fal prey to predators or other disease.  the disease is of no danger to humans if the fish are eaten.  there is not cure and probably got ito the Madison River from illegal stocking.  It can be transmitted on fishing gear, so there is a real risk of it spreading to other rivers. It is a very bad situation, but fortunatley does not affect the brown trout. The rainbow are most susceptible. again, if you do not get a better scientific description, let me know.  I have some materials that I can use to compose a longer post.                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

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This is far from scientific, but as far as I understand whirling disease, it’s parasitic infestation (whether a protozoan or worm, or other loathsome critter, I’m not sure) which lodges in the nerve/spinal column of the fish.  The beasties keep eating their way through (right into the brain, I’ve heard) until the fish is neurological/mental invalid.  The effect is particularly pronounced in fry and parr, leading to the classic symtpoms of swimming in erratic circles or "whirling."  By the time things get to that point, the fish is defenseless.  I’m not sure about the propagation cycle of the parasite. I think that it can be spread by ingestion, so if an adult gobbles up a fry that is addled with the disease, the parasite can spread to the adult.  What I do not remember is how the parasite propagates once the host is dead, assuming something does not ingest it. I do recall that on avergage 10% of a population will not be affected by the disease, but they could be carriers. It can strike older fish as well, but it takes much longer.  One reason the disease is particularly insidious (sp?) is that we notice the adults for the most part.  By the time an adult in the population is diagonosed with the condition, you’ve got one hell of a problem because odds are the disease has spread through the population.  The truly horrific part of it is that it tends to wipe out whole year classes, with a disproportionate effect on the fry and par.  So, if you you start seeing adults with the condition, the younger year classes, and therefore future populations, may be in very serious trouble. The spread of the disease is increases with higher water temperatures because the beasties become more active.  Last I heard, once there is an infestation, there is very little that can be done other than killing off the host population.  I don’t know if that is true. Illegally stocked fish are likely a principal source, but I don’t know how the parasite gets into the hatchery in the first instance. Rainbows are very susceptible.  Browns are not.  The disease is European and so are browns, who have developed a restisance.  So, expect to see a much higher percentage of browns caught on the Madison. That’s what I’ve heard, for what it’s worth.  If there’s a fisheries biologist out there, please set this straight if it’s wrong.  I hope I’m wrong about some of the nastier aspects, because it sounds like rather like a fish version of bubonic plague. John C. Crow

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I lived for 5 years in Bozeman in the 1980’s and loved fishing the Madison when I could.  I have just heard about this "whirling disease" phenomenon.  Can someone explain in a bit of scientific detail what it is?

For more than you probably want to know, search the Flyfishing archive at www.adp.unc.edu/cgi-bin/wais-flyfish-q using "whirling" as a key word. Phil Holt

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I’m not sure what this article stated, but I received a release from the New York DEC a couple of months ago indicating that Whirling disease had contaminated a hatchery in NY State. I don’t think many fish with Whirling disease were stocked, but it wiped out an entire hatchery. Forgive my ‘net ignorance; this information is certainly timely and quite important, so I’m willing to risk a little self-dignity to keep everyone informed. See you on the rivers! Dennis Suler, Jr Hackettstown, NJ Forbes Newspapers

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Whirlings disease is caused by a protozoan, that eats the cartilage around the equilibrium center in the fish.  It is deadly to fry and small fish, as stated before, but seems to have no effect on older fish.  If an older fish had it when it was young, you will often times find a sunken cranium, or deformed back.  Young fish that are infected often times also have a black tail.  Their is NO cure for it and the only way to get rid of it is to kill all the fish, sterilize (with some really potent chemicals) and start over, not a good thing for a stream, but it is required when a hatchery gets it.  Brown trout are susseptible to it, but they seem to have a better genetic defense of it, so it doean’t show up much in them. I hope this helps, I am not a fish biologist, but studiing to become one, I recently became interested in whirlings disease due to the outbreak of it in CO. Feel free to reply to me via email. Kevin — | ALL opinions |    OF COURSE I DID IT IN COLD BLOOD…..     | are mine,    |            I’M A POIKILOTHERM | Nobody else  |                                Kevin Case

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I lived for 5 years in Bozeman in the 1980’s and loved fishing the Madison when I could.  I have just heard about this "whirling disease" phenomenon.  Can someone explain in a bit of scientific detail what it is?

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The only good news I have heard yet, is that Cutthroats and Brookies are somewhat resistant, at least by comparison with Rainbows. —

At the fly fishing show in New Jersey, Gary LaFontaine listed a hierarchy of the suseptability to all trout, I cannot remember it exactly but I do remember that Rainbow was number one, and lake trout were at the bottom, I believe unaffected totally.                                         Brian

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Could somebody please give me a short summary, what whirling disease is and how it affects fish and people eating them? (Btw, I am on good terms with biology, so it can be a rather scienific explanation) Thanx, or "Vielen Dank", as we Austrians put it,                                                 Peter

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Tom Fry writes that it is not likely that the national magazines will publish  anything on the whirling disease because of the risk of loss of advertising. Tom = I think that you are wrong on this because the problem has already gotten a lot of national press.  But your scepticism is not without foundation. I suggest that if we do not see any articles in the next couple of editions of FF and Fly Rod & Reel, for example, we ought to beseige them with letters demanding attention to the problem.                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

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Has nay of the national magazines had any reports about whirling disease?

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re: WHIRLING DISEASE… Excellent summary in compuserve fishing library. I could fax it too you if you like…

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Has nay of the national magazines had any reports about whirling disease?

about eating Great Lakes fish. "In-Fisherman" provided some in-depth coverage, and was rewarded with the loss of over $250K of advertising revenue. "Outdoor Life", knowing which side its bread was buttered on, published a blistering editorial calling the advisory 16 kinds of crap. No loss of advertising for these pillars of journalistic integrity — 3798 Woodland Drive     (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC

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