Question:

You might try http://www.paflyfish.easetech.com/ There is a listing of fly shops (though I’m sure not complete) and a bullitin board wherre you can post your questions. Pretty active. It seems to be THE place to go to find out about Pa trout matters.

I tried that one out. The nearest fly shops were down in Williamsport. I was kinda hoping to find one right in Canton, preferably staffed by a cute young lady with a soft spot for engineers on quests. Hope springs eternal and all that… My work firewall won’t let me into the forum section, so I haven’t posted questions yet. Barring any particular solutions, I can just use general solutions: Be polite, bring five sizes of Adams and tie on 7x. You picked (or had fantastic dumb luck) a great area to fish and nearly the perfect time of year to go.

One of my friends just bought a new digital camera so I’ll post pictures of the scenery. I was in Bucks County last weekend and the trees were just starting to turn. I think by the time I get to Bradford County they’ll be mostly done, but the state of the leaves is really just a part of the whole experience. Brookies in the fall? You will be dazzled.

I hope so. It has the ingredients to become maudlin and possibly even mawkish. If the fish are even a tenth as beautiful as I remember (assuming I catch one), I might just begin to cry from the sheer emotional power of touching my inner child. At worst, I’ll start watching Lifetime or Oxygen… Kiyu

Thanks for the suggestion. Steve "I can see the mountains, I can see the sky, and it’s all too pretty for a man to want to die." -Johnny Cash, "25 Minutes to Go"

Response:

"You never even called me by my name"… Steve Goodman (City of new orleans) wrote it and sent it to David Allan Coe telling him it was the perfect country/western song, Coe replied saying it wasn’t because it didn’t mention pick up trucks, being drunk, trains, Momma, Prison or dying. Goodman wrote an additional verse sent it back and Coe recorded it. That verse went like this… "I was drunk, the day my Mom, got outta prison, and I went to pick her up in the rain, but before I could get to the station in my pick up truck, she got runned over by a damned old train…." Great sing along swing song I used to do at every gig, and if we forgot to include it the requests ensured we did. A good song, but just as good a laugh. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Frank Reid" No one has written a country western song about it, I could, but probably wont….. Clark To quote an intro off a Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young album, "Here’s a song guaranteed to bring you right down.  Its called, "Don’t let it bring you down."" Who was it that said the perfect country western song’s gotta have "trucks, trains, mothers" and a few other things? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

"Brian D. Nelson" Wasn’t that Merle?? Nope, David Allan Coe sang it, Steve Goodman wrote it. Clark

Response:

"I was drunk, the day my Mom, got outta prison, and I went to pick her up in the rain, but before I could get to the station in my pick up truck, she got runned over by a damned old train…."

Clark, I know you will remember the bit by Billy Connolly (or as he says, Big Bill Connolly, the man who put the c**t in Country Music). He was the big scottish guy in "Head of the Class" for the US readers. The bit deconstructs the genre in a humorous yet accurate way, talking about the tragedy, lost love, alcohol that form the common or garden country song. He tops the bit off with this little number: http://www.btinternet.com/~sarsen/billy/bc-candw.html Note the part that says "Country and Western Sounds" went like: Yo de lay eeeee .. lay eeee .. lay eeeee Wooo Wooo You know what I mean Cheers, — Gary M (remove ‘x’s from email address)

Response:

When I was a kid and I lived on the Western slopes of the Rockies, my father and I went fishing for brookies in small alpine creeks. We used spinning gear and worms and enjoyed the summer sunshine. My father was a very busy man and these trips were the highlight of our time in Colorado. We got up before light and dressed heavily because even in July the overnight temperatures would drop to near freezing. There was a perfunctory attempt at packing lunch, usually a block of cheese, leftover steak, two sodas, a sixpack and the obligatory thermos of coffee. Sometimes it was just the coffee and the sixpack. We drove out to Steamboat Springs, stopped at the same gas station for worms and headed up towards Hahn’s Peak. At first we went for the little brookies in the streams that flowed into Steamboat Lake. Later, Dad got a little twelve-foot aluminum boat and we trolled Steamboat Lake for rainbows, and then after we moved, bass in small lakes. No matter where I go or how I fish, I remember how perfect those little brookies were. The biggest we ever caught was eight inches and six was the norm. They all came from those sun-soaked little creeks where the water was so cold it hurt your feet and all the while, Hahn’s Peak looked down in all its purple benevolence. I’m older, and my third-grade enthusiasm is tempered with a little knowledge and a little skill. I know that those little brookies were invaders; they probably should have been cutthroats. It doesn’t change how beautiful they were or how great it was to be ten years old and fishing with Dad. In two weeks, I going with my friends to a cabin on the border between Bradford and Tioga Counties. According to the Pennsylvania Fishing and Boating Commission, there is a Class A Wild Trout Stream right in the little town of Canton, with a population of native brookies, wild and sustaining. Rathbone Creek, it is called. This will be my first chance at wild brookies, and more importantly, my first chance at natives: fish that have lived in that area since the glaciers retreated twelve thousand years ago. I’ve left the worms and the spinning rods behind (for the most part), and since I’ve taken up fly fishing I’ve considered a native brookie on a dry fly to be very meaningful and a fishing milestone. I think it will be almost a exciting as hooking my first steelhead (though not as dramatic). I’d like some help in this quest: Is there a fly shop in the vicinity of Canton? Is there public access to this Rathbone Creek? Is Rathbone the right idea? We’re not hooligans and we won’t trash anybody’s favorite spots. Thanks, Steve

Response:

… since I’ve taken up fly fishing I’ve considered a native brookie on a dry fly to be very meaningful and a fishing milestone. …

You’re a man after my own heart. I can’t help you with your Pennsylvania quest but you would be right at home in North Carolina. Uncle Waldo at ezflyfish could set you right up. Good luck. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

… since I’ve taken up fly fishing I’ve considered a native brookie on a dry fly to be very meaningful and a fishing milestone. … You’re a man after my own heart. I can’t help you with your Pennsylvania quest but you would be right at home in North Carolina. Uncle Waldo at ezflyfish could set you right up. Good luck.

I’ll second all of that and add that if you’re ever in Wisconsin or upper Michigan we can show you LOTS of native brookies. Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … since I’ve taken up fly fishing I’ve considered a native brookie on a dry fly to be very meaningful and a fishing milestone. … You’re a man after my own heart. I can’t help you with your Pennsylvania quest but you would be right at home in North Carolina. Uncle Waldo at ezflyfish could set you right up. Good luck. I’ll second all of that and add that if you’re ever in Wisconsin or upper Michigan we can show you LOTS of native brookies. Wolfgang

    gotta go there and do that.  it wouldn’t be maudlin, would it? yfitons wayno

Response:

I’ll second all of that and add that if you’re ever in Wisconsin or upper Michigan we can show you LOTS of native brookies. Wolfgang    gotta go there and do that.  it wouldn’t be maudlin, would it? yfitons wayno

just don’t trip over the meniscus Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … since I’ve taken up fly fishing I’ve considered a native brookie on a dry fly to be very meaningful and a fishing milestone. … You’re a man after my own heart. I can’t help you with your Pennsylvania quest but you would be right at home in North Carolina. Uncle Waldo at ezflyfish could set you right up. Good luck. I’ll second all of that and add that if you’re ever in Wisconsin or upper Michigan we can show you LOTS of native brookies. Wolfgang     gotta go there and do that.  it wouldn’t be maudlin, would it? yfitons wayno

Nope…….um……not on a school day anyway.  Weekends…..well, you know.   Wolfgang bring cheese!

Response:

You might try http://www.paflyfish.easetech.com/ There is a listing of fly shops (though I’m sure not complete) and a bullitin board wherre you can post your questions. Pretty active. It seems to be THE place to go to find out about Pa trout matters. You picked (or had fantastic dumb luck) a great area to fish and nearly the perfect time of year to go. Brookies in the fall? You will be dazzled. Kiyu

Response:

    gotta go there and do that.  it wouldn’t be maudlin, would it? yfitons wayno

No one has written a country western song about it, nor has anyone reported their rod missing.  I would give it a 0.2 on the maudlin potentiometer. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

"Frank Reid" No one has written a country western song about it, I could, but probably wont….. Clark

Response:

"Frank Reid" No one has written a country western song about it, I could, but probably wont….. Clark

To quote an intro off a Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young album, "Here’s a song guaranteed to bring you right down.  Its called, "Don’t let it bring you down."" Who was it that said the perfect country western song’s gotta have "trucks, trains, mothers" and a few other things? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

Who was it that said the perfect country western song’s gotta have "trucks, trains, mothers" and a few other things?

David Allan Coe "…and he told me it was the perfect country and western song I wrote him back a letter and told him it was NOT the perfect country and western song because he hadn’t said anything about Momma, or trains, or trucks, or prison, or gettin’ drunk…" — Charlie…

Response:

Who was it that said the perfect country western song’s gotta have "trucks, trains, mothers" and a few other things?

Wasn’t that Merle?? — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

"…and he told me it was the perfect country and western song I wrote him back a letter and told him it was NOT the perfect country and western song because he hadn’t said anything about Momma, or trains, or trucks, or prison, or gettin’ drunk…"

"I was drunk the day my ma got out of prison…" Joe F.

Response:

<Snipped "I was drunk the day my ma got out of prison…" Joe F.

Thanks, by the way, this is cool.  Joe’s comment on Charlie’s post arrived on my server first.  Still can’t see Charlie’s post. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

"I was drunk the day my ma got out of prison…" Joe F.

Since I can’t see Charlie’s post, who was it? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

"I was drunk the day my ma got out of prison…" Joe F. Since I can’t see Charlie’s post, who was it?

David Allan Coe. — Charlie…

Response:

"Frank Reid" No one has written a country western song about it, I could, but probably wont….. Clark To quote an intro off a Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young album, "Here’s a song guaranteed to bring you right down.  Its called, "Don’t let it bring you down.""

And then he adds, "It starts out kinda slow and then fizzles out altogether." Russell Some of these threads start out slow. It’s getting them to fizzle out that’s hard.

Response:

Question:

Hi All, October is the month you want to take off from work so you can fish for everything we have in the state. With the kids back in school and hunting season started there are less people fishing. Many trout streams pick up with the cooler fall temperatures. Flows are low and there are fall hatches. Brown trout are moving upstream to spawn.(Upper Sac, McCloud, Pit, Hat Creek, Fall River, East Carson, East Walker….) Lakes are cooling off so the trout are coming back to the surface to feed up for winter. ( Davis, Frenchmans,Almanor, Eagle, Crowley….) There are steelhead and salmon in all the rivers open to the ocean. (Klamath, Trinity, Lower Sac, Lower Feather, Lower Yuba, Lower American….) The stripers are schooling in the Sacramento Delta and the black bass have become active with the cooler water temps of fall. I guess the only fisheries that is not going in the fall is the American shad ? Try to plan a good trip this October so you can enjoy some good fly fishing. With the cooler temps you can fish all day too. If you need help planning a good trip or need the name of a good FF guide just let me know. It is pretty hard to have a bad trip in October in California. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com Toll free USA 1-800-400-0359

Response:

It is pretty hard to have a bad trip in October in California.

If this was from *anywhere* but CA, it wouldn’t have been near as funny. <g — TL, Tim

Response:

Question:

I fear you might have a problem riding the horse in the stream itself, if it shies for some reason you might be thrown.  

That’s always a possibility, even if I’m not fishing. If you have no intention of landing the fish, then you will at least have no problems with fish splashing about close, and possibly frightening the horse.   You might have problems with the noise the horse makes frightening the fish, or perhaps you can "muffle" the hooves in some way, without causing the horse to lose traction. Presumably the horse is shod?

Yes, he’s shod. Horses are actually very good at wading in freestone rivers — much better than people are. They’re tall, they have four long legs, they’re heavy, and their weight is high (not underwater, like much of ours when we wade). I cross streams frequently while mounted without problems. Does not sound much like "stealthy" fly-fishing either.  Up on a horse in the stream, in places where horses are not common, you are liable to frighten most fish long before you get within casting range, although this might not be the case.  

That’s true, but I’d also be up high where I could more easily spot fish. There’s so much noise in these freestone streams that you can wade with a fair amount of ruckus without spooking the fish. let us know how you get on.

Will do. The idea here isn’t really to catch fish, of course. It’s just to try this to be able to say I’ve done it. I’m looking for the right setup — early evening, sun and wind at my back, riffles with pocket water, and plenty of dumb fish. There’s a perfect spot just upstream from my pasture on the Salmon river. Unfortuanately, a highway goes right by there, so I might cause an sensation. This is just the sort of thing what would get people talking around here. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Willi can attest to the fact that I did an incredible hopping/dancing routine in a slippery Madison riffle when a fish came straight at me and swam through my legs.  (Yeah, it was a whitefish… so?)  If you put tassles on your horse and braided its mane, I’d pay good money to see a horse do the same thing.

No tassles and braids, Jeff. This is Idaho. You don’t baby horses or take them to the hairdresser here. There’s a horse in my rented pasture (not mine) that had a serious case of ear mites, and probably other parasites as well. He was really suffering and was weak and listless. Since so one was doing anything about it I gave him a dose of Ivermectin (recommended by folks in rec.equestrian) just before I left for the Western Clave. When I returned about 10 days later the mites were gone and he was feeling and looking good. I took him on a long ride up to Sulpher Creek and he did just fine, except it’s like fighting the Devil to get the bridle over his ears. He’ll get over that. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Don’t laugh. I’m serious. The next logical step is actually fishing FROM THE HORSE!         i’m really worried about wolfgang.  at this point, there have been a dozen responses to this post, and he remains silent.         could someone check the e.r.’s in milwaukee? wayno, always thinking of his friends.

Ahem….yes….sorry about the delay.  It’s been a rather busy week for me.  I’ve been engaged in monitoring ROFF’s collective blood pressure using my own patented remote telemetry device.  Oddly enough it appears that the numbers increase significantly in direct proportion to the frequency of my participation.  Still working on whether the relationship is causal or merely coincidental.  Will keep everyone posted on results. Have also been deeply engaged in an investigation of population genetics as manifested in boorish behavior on small mountain streams.  Fascinating study! As to the point under consideration in this thread, why anyone would consider doing anything on a horse’s back other than perhaps parking a bus, completely escapes me.  That said, if memory serves, I seem to recall seeing photos in some of the fishing rags a few years ago, when I still paid attention to them, of people doing exactly what Steve is contemplating.  I believe there were some ads for outfitters who take people out on fishing trips specifically to fish while mounted upon the backs of these ungainly and treacherous brutes.  Sorry I can’t give any more details but my memory of the references is rather dim as I was at that time deeply engrossed in the consideration of a plan to get nymphs to the bottom of deep pools without using hazardous lead weights by clasping the fly firmly in my teeth and diving headlong into the pools with a medium sized anvil tied securely to my neck.  Sadly, I must report that this plan never came to fruition as I was unable to devise a reliable method for retrieving the anvils which, as I’m sure everyone knows, are in short supply due to the distressing habit of "collectors" buying them up at auctions and yard sales to be used as lawn ornaments. However, now that I think about it, I suppose that a steel shod horse has from horse hair lines to using the entire beast…..waste not, want not, eh?  Or would that be considered bait casting? FWIW Wolfgang "Something’s happening here….."

Response:

rw,   One of my wildest rides occurred when mounting a horse with a fishing rod in hand. Ernie

A mare no doubt. Peter

Response:

  One of my wildest rides occurred when mounting a horse with a fishing rod in hand. Ernie A mare no doubt. Peter

Ernie "Stud" Harrison seems to take a little "different" view of dealing with animals.  I shudder to think of what would happen if Ernie took up Mike’s Camel suggestion.  Reminds me of a Foreign Legion story; there was a new officer assigned to a remote French Foreign Legion post…… — Wayne (saving the rest of the story for the Smallie Clave this weekend) To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

As to the point under consideration in this thread, why anyone would consider doing anything on a horse’s back other than perhaps parking a bus, completely escapes me.  

Why would anyone consider climbing up a waterfall while wearing wading boots and carrying a flyrod? That said, if memory serves, I seem to recall seeing photos in some of the fishing rags a few years ago, when I still paid attention to them, of people doing exactly what Steve is contemplating.  I believe there were some ads for outfitters who take people out on fishing trips specifically to fish while mounted upon the backs of these ungainly and treacherous brutes.

I’ve wanted to try this ever since I saw the movie "Jeremiah Johnson". Johnson (played by Robert Redford) was starving in the winter, and he was desperately trying to catch fish with his bare hands. As he was pathetically flopping around in the freezing creek he looked up to see a mounted Indian wading, carrying a full stringer of trout he’s shot with a bow and arrow. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I’ve wanted to try this ever since I saw the movie "Jeremiah Johnson". Johnson (played by Robert Redford) was starving in the winter, and he was desperately trying to catch fish with his bare hands. As he was pathetically flopping around in the freezing creek he looked up to see a mounted Indian wading, carrying a full stringer of trout he’s shot with a bow and arrow.

Be careful when bowfishing.  When I was a kid I went bowfishing for carp with my father and uncle.  My uncle shot at a fish and the line wrapped around his finger as he shot.  His finger was essentially only held together by the fingernail.  We rushed him to the hospital and they sewed it all back together, but it wasn’t a pretty sight. I know I’ve never gone since then and I seriously doubt if either of them have.  Still makes me cringe 10-15 years later just thinking about it. Happy lunchtime reading,      - Ken —     "I was gratified to be able to answer promptly,       and I did.  I said I didn’t know."     — Mark Twain

Response:

 There’s so much noise in these freestone streams that you can wade with a fair amount of ruckus without spooking the fish.

    with all due respect, steve, i will put you and that goddam horse at the mouth of hazel creek, give you your choice of equipment, and give you one hundred dollars for every fish you can catch from dawn to dark.  in return, you will pay me a thousand bucks if you fail to bring a fish to hand.  shit, the rainbows in hazel creek will spook a hundred yards in both directions if audrey hepburn’s ghost slips on an orange slider!     wayno, who is put in mind of the shotgunned killdeer of the tejas.

Response:

The problem is what to do with the fish when I hook it. My plan is to cut the hook bends off of dry flies and just fish for rises. Does this sound totally crazy?

How about using a net with a 6′ handle? But if that’s too much work, you might just consider paying someone to fish for you–you can just watch from a distance on horseback and that way you’ll have at least one hand free to make calls on your satellite phone. –Steve

Response:

How about using a net with a 6′ handle? But if that’s too much work, you might just consider paying someone to fish for you–you can just watch from a distance on horseback and that way you’ll have at least one hand free to make calls on your satellite phone.

If he’d hunt from it too, and wear a fur coat, PETA could just focus on him and leave everyone else alone (especially if he bought the Wienermobile to tow his horse trailer to the stream)<g. — Charlie…

Response:

If he’d hunt from it too, and wear a fur coat, PETA could just focus on him and leave everyone else alone (especially if he bought the Wienermobile to tow his horse trailer to the stream)<g. — Charlie…

Arlo could trot behind fitted up with an antler tied to his head like the dog in Grinch Who Stole Christmas! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

If he’d hunt from it too<

You know the old joke – "can I shoot off this horse?"  "Sure."  Guy comes back all beat up, wants his money back.  Seller reminds him, "I said you could shoot OFF him, not ON him!" <g

Response:

Don’t laugh. I’m serious. The next logical step is actually fishing FROM THE HORSE!

        i’m really worried about wolfgang.  at this point, there have been a dozen responses to this post, and he remains silent.         could someone check the e.r.’s in milwaukee? wayno, always thinking of his friends.

Response:

rw,    One of my wildest rides occurred when mounting a horse with a fishing rod in hand. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t laugh. I’m serious. When I got my horse in June he was afraid of flyrods. Thought they were whips, I suppose. He’s over that now. I can mount and ride him with a flyrod. It’s really fun to ride from hole to hole, dismounting for a few casts, sticking around if there’s action, and moving on if there’s not. There’s lots of water around here where you can do that without disturbing anyone. The next logical step is actually fishing FROM THE HORSE! I want to eliminate this dismounting and tying up bullshit. I know places where I could wade upstream (mounted, of course) and cast to lots of riffles, pocket water, and shoreline, kind of like a drift boat in reverse. The problem is what to do with the fish when I hook it. My plan is to cut the hook bends off of dry flies and just fish for rises. Does this sound totally crazy? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ to something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

True….a rod in hand is definitely not very romantic…..john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rw,   One of my wildest rides occurred when mounting a horse with a fishing rod in hand. Ernie Don’t laugh. I’m serious. When I got my horse in June he was afraid of flyrods. Thought they were whips, I suppose. He’s over that now. I can mount and ride him with a flyrod. It’s really fun to ride from hole to hole, dismounting for a few casts, sticking around if there’s action, and moving on if there’s not. There’s lots of water around here where you can do that without disturbing anyone. The next logical step is actually fishing FROM THE HORSE! I want to eliminate this dismounting and tying up bullshit. I know places where I could wade upstream (mounted, of course) and cast to lots of riffles, pocket water, and shoreline, kind of like a drift boat in reverse. The problem is what to do with the fish when I hook it. My plan is to cut the hook bends off of dry flies and just fish for rises. Does this sound totally crazy? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ to something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I hope someone is around with a camera<g. I wonder how the horse will like fish jumping and splashing next to it, not to mention the line tangled around its legs…

Willi can attest to the fact that I did an incredible hopping/dancing routine in a slippery Madison riffle when a fish came straight at me and swam through my legs.  (Yeah, it was a whitefish… so?)  If you put tassles on your horse and braided its mane, I’d pay good money to see a horse do the same thing. Regards, Jeff

Response:

can you image the affect of a bad sinktip cast whipping across its rump?

I believe the technical term is "yee haw"<g. — Charlie…

Response:

A camel might be a better idea. Puts a whole new perspective on fishing with humpys !:) TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

My wife Kate, is currently making one for my son Brandon.  She got a pattern from the sewing shop, and is using my Colombia as an inspiration for modifications to the pattern (like mesh and grommet on the pockets, etc.). She is also using Supplex instead of the cotton material the pattern spec’d.  I thought it would be a better idea for drying. HTH, Brian

Response:

They don’t scream as loud as flies do. Hm…..sort of makes me wonder about the ethics of amputating limbs from captive trees.  I don’t suppose anyone out there has an opinion on this do they?

– Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tom McGuane

Response:

Willi, I have designed several fly fishing vests/shirts (not commercially, but for myself). I did the "engineering", my poor wife the sewing. One tip I have is to carefully consider how the load will be carried and distributed after the pockets are filled. If there is too much weight in the pockets in the front, the vest pulls down in front around your neck…very uncomfortable.

I have struggled for years to find a vest I liked. Bob’s point about a loaded vest digging into the back of your neck is quite true. Why do the makers invariably cut the necks of vests so high? Why do they put collars on the bloody things? Vest are supposed to be load carrying. It’s what they’re for. Moreover, the front bottom pockets are where most people want to carry stuff. It seems that very few vest manufacturers have grasped this fundamental design requirement. Some years ago I bought a Columbia Henry’s Fork vest (remember those bloody irritating adverts about ‘Ma’ knowing best and kicking arse if things weren’t just right, etc.). It cost a fortune having it shipped from the US, paying VAT and duty, etc. That bastard always left me with a sore, stiff neck. The Velcro on the pocket flaps matched nicely when the vest was hanging flat and empty in the closet, but didn’t when anything even slightly fat was put into the pockets. The following are my tips to any would be vest designer/maker, based on years of disappointment. 1. Go for fewer, better designed pockets, especially the big ones on the front bottom. Resist the temptation to include as many pockets as possible. More is NOT better! 2. Cut the neck low. 3. Make sure the pocket closures are designed for FILLED pockets. 4. Choose a material that is light, tough and strong and QUICK DRYING, rather than waterproof. 5. Use all plastic zippers (A friend recently gave me his old Sage ‘Strap vest’. It had been used in the sea and the YKK metal zippers had corroded badly). 6. Unless you really spend a lot of time wading very deep,  longer vests are more comfortable to wear: you feel less like Dolly Parton wearing them. My penny’orth Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

6. Unless you really spend a lot of time wading very deep,  longer vests are more comfortable to wear: you feel less like Dolly Parton wearing them.

I have no choice about what kind of vest I get.  I have to get the short vest or it will go past my massive ass.  I’m sorter than the other guy. However, I’m sure short men or ladies also need the short vest due to physical stature.  Very unlike sex, longer is not always better. Vern

Response:

…I don’t remember the pattern number but if you have trouble finding it I believe I still have it around somewhere and can look it up….

Just did an on line search and came up with the following.  This is the pattern I used.  #2198- men’s sport vest. http://www.kwiksew.com/Patterns/_Cat_North/Frame.htm Good luck!

Response:

What has ROFF turned into!?!?  Some sort of girly-man group?  Let’s all get out our needles and thread now!

It’s a balance thing Jon.  This Saturday I plan to take Becky out in the fields and teach her to kick shit.  Sunday we bake bread and do the Trick or Treat thing.  The next weekend is devoted to killing things and then we move on to bonsai.  :)

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: What has ROFF turned into!?!?  Some sort of girly-man group?  Let’s all : get out our needles and thread now! : : : It’s a balance thing Jon.  This Saturday I plan to take Becky out in the fields and teach her to : kick shit.  Sunday we bake bread and do the Trick or Treat thing.  The next weekend is devoted to : killing things and then we move on to bonsai.  :) In my case: bonsai = killing things (poor little tree never had a fighting chance we me wielding the clippers)

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In my case: bonsai = killing things (poor little tree never had a fighting chance we me wielding the clippers)

Hm…..sort of makes me wonder about the ethics of amputating limbs from captive trees.  I don’t suppose anyone out there has an opinion on this do they?

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Hm…..sort of makes me wonder about the ethics of amputating limbs from captive trees.  I don’t suppose anyone out there has an opinion on this do they?

Depends on if you eat the limb or not. — Charlie…

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: What has ROFF turned into!?!?  Some sort of girly-man group?  Let’s all : get out our needles and thread now!

Really…we gonna fish or we gonna sew ? (Mine has darts !) — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

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Willi, I made a vest.  I always wanted one made from Blue Denim, sort of like a Levi Denim Jacket without sleeves.  I just used a vest I had and drew a pattern on some paper.  Then I laid out the things I wanted to carry and figured out the places and size for the pockets. The pockets all have Velcro closures.  It came out good and I have worn it for years.  I also made a tent, it was a lot of fun. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

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Somehow I had a feeling Ernie was going to answer saying he’d made his own vest. My hat goes off to you. Steve Zimmerman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi, I made a vest Ernie Harrison

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Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

I made several vests. I was ultimately satisfied with none of them  although my brother and a couple of other people still use them ). I went back to a custom made fishing jacket. With far too many pockets ! TL MC

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Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.

I made a vest while a grad student; I was too poor to buy one.  That was about 1956.  I used it till 1996.   It was still in good condition but I decided to treat myself to a new one. The trick is to plan ahead very carefully, so that you can sew the pockets on the inside the and outside without  interference. vince norris  The one I have now is close to – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

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Willi, I have designed several fly fishing vests/shirts (not commercially, but for myself). I did the "engineering", my poor wife the sewing. One tip I have is to carefully consider how the load will be carried and distributed after the pockets are filled. If there is too much weight in the pockets in the front, the vest pulls down in front around your neck…very uncomfortable. Also, it can be a challenge getting the best waterproof materials. Good luck. Bob Elliott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

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Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits.

Willi; I have made several vests using a Kwik Sew pattern.  The pattern is for a general purpose vest, not specifically for fishing.  But if you’re good enough with a sewing machine to make your own you won’t have any trouble modifying it to suit your needs.  I use my vest for hunting so the pockets outlined in the pattern are sufficient for my needs.  It won’t be much trouble to add a few more if you like.  this pattern is also too long for a good fishing vest but again, it should be easy enough to shorten.  I don’t remember the pattern number but if you have trouble finding it I believe I still have it around somewhere and can look it up.

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Yeah Charlie, but it was before she was famous. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Somehow I had a feeling Ernie was going to answer saying he’d made his own vest. My hat goes off to you. Hell, Ernie made Martha Stewart once<g. — Charlie…

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Question:

Looking for any information on working Bamboo?–

Response:

Looking for any information on working Bamboo?–

If you know any soldiers who have had experience in tropical jungle country they should know quite a lot about the use of bamboo.   Two genders  -  male and female – the male being smaller in diameter and more solid than the female which cam be of large diameter but hollw with relatively thin walls.   Chairs are more often made from Rattan which grows in conditions similst]r to bamboo and has very sharp spikes amongst its leaves.   That is about all I can tell you as I have only used it within the jungle scene using a khukri to cut it and split it to make beds, tables and the like.   The hollow inside the female variety is good for cooking rice or stuffing with explosive. — Charles (Joe) Stahelin Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK

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Looking for any information on working Bamboo?– If you know any soldiers who have had experience in tropical jungle country they should know quite a lot about the use of bamboo.   Two genders  -  male and female – the male being smaller in diameter and more solid than the female which cam be of large diameter but hollw with relatively thin walls.   Chairs are more often made from Rattan which grows in conditions similst]r to bamboo and has very sharp spikes amongst its leaves.   That is about all I can tell you as I have only used it within the jungle scene using a khukri to cut it and split it to make beds, tables and the like.   The hollow inside the female variety is good for cooking rice or stuffing with explosive.

Please do not forget its use as an ersatz mortar tube. Propped up at an angle and lashed to another piece of bamboo which had been lashed horizontally between two trees. To this day I cannot figure out how they managed to get the trajectories so close!

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I have seen bamboo laminates (3-ply) used for flooring recently.  According to the literature I read, it is actually harder than Red Oak, and makes a very interesting floor due to the very fine grain, or what resembles grain, and the nodes seem to be spaced very uniformily.  I have no idea how they remanufacture the finished product, but I am assuming they use the Timber type which grows 60+feet in a season.  I’d be interested to know how they mill it, etc..  Good luck. . .

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Intermediate Technology Publications publishes a book entitled:         Building with Bamboo: A handbook , Second Edition It is 88 pages and costs 9 pounds.  It discusses preparing bamboo for construction use, joints, and common building practices.  Please email me if you want more information re: publisher address, etc. Sorry, I discarded the original poster’s name and address. Douglas Stockman

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I have seen bamboo laminates (3-ply) used for flooring recently. According to the literature I read, it is actually harder than Red Oak, and makes a very interesting floor due to the very fine grain, or what resembles grain, and the nodes seem to be spaced very uniformily.  I have no idea how they remanufacture the finished product, but I am assuming they use the Timber type which grows 60+feet in a season.  I’d be interested to know how they mill it, etc..  Good luck. . . Bamboo’s actually a very fast growing species of grass, grows something like 1-2" per day.  It’s a light weight, excellent material for things like kite frames or construction scaffolding.  I’ve seen pics in Nat. Geo. of Taiwanese construction crews using the stuff for scaffolds reaching 10-12 stories above ground.  It can be worked by splitting, planing, and scraping.

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I’m new to the group…So far I like what I see.. I am looking for 2" diameter or larger bamboo to use for door frame and window frame in a special project. I searched all of my suppliers here in the Southeast. Closest I got was fresh stalks from the Atlanta Zoo. I would like something that was already cured. I would appreciate a suppliers name and number. Thanks in advance. David Holec Exhibit Manager SciTrek – Science and Tecnology Adventure Atlanta GA

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Hello, My dad has some contacts in Japan and could get some Japanes bamboo (larger diameter), but probably wouldn’t be cost effective unless you wanted a large amount. There is a forum about bamboo at www.woodfibre.com.  You might want to pose the same question there and they should be able to help. Don Yasaki HH & NK Co., Ltd.   Kings Mtn., NC Kiln-dried Hardwoods – Sawmill Direct Prices tel (704) 739-6914             fax (704) 739-7336 http://www.unc.edu/~dyasaki – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new to the group…So far I like what I see.. I am looking for 2" diameter or larger bamboo to use for door frame and window frame in a special project. I searched all of my suppliers here in the Southeast. Closest I got was fresh stalks from the Atlanta Zoo. I would like something that was already cured. I would appreciate a suppliers name and number. Thanks in advance. David Holec Exhibit Manager SciTrek – Science and Tecnology Adventure Atlanta GA

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Try these two URL’s: http://www.bamboo.org/abs/ http://www.communety.com/mintec/welcome.html Keith Bohn b2d – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’m new to the group…So far I like what I see.. I am looking for 2" diameter or larger bamboo to use for door frame and window frame in a special project. I searched all of my suppliers here in the Southeast. Closest I got was fresh stalks from the Atlanta Zoo. I would like something that was already cured. I would appreciate a suppliers name and number. Thanks in advance. David Holec Exhibit Manager SciTrek – Science and Tecnology Adventure Atlanta GA

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Does anyone have ideas or plans for making things out of Bamboo trees? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Does anyone have ideas or plans for making things out of Bamboo trees?

Sure. I make split bamboo flyfishing rods. By the way bamboo is more properly called a plant, not a tree. Darryl Hayashida

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Does anyone have ideas or plans for making things out of Bamboo trees?

No plans unfortunately, but look at some books dealing with late 19th century furniture design – in England and America there was a craze (Japonisme) for anything with an Asian aesthetic and faux (and real) bamboo chairs, cabinets, hall trees and such were briefly "all the rage".  Most of this furniture was painted in black, gold, white, or other color combinations… Kevin

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Does anyone have ideas or plans for making things out of Bamboo trees?

        Bamboo is a grass not a tree.  It is a plant but that is too general a term.         I do not know of any books of making things with bamboo.  I a sure I have never seen one.         I will through in this piece of advice from experience.  Do NOT try to blast a driveway through a bamboo hedge with explosives.  This is a ver bad move.         Riley

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Sure. I make split bamboo flyfishing rods. By the way bamboo is more properly called a plant, not a tree.

Try a grass.

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Does anyone have ideas or plans for making things out of Bamboo trees?

Fly rods!!!  Try FWW #34:68.  Hoagy B. Carmichael (Stardust’s son) wrote a great book on making them. Also, you can build scaffolding with it.  Check out building construction in Indonesia, and other SE Asian countries. mccs

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Does anyone have ideas or plans for making things out of Bamboo trees?

Actually, bamboo is a pretty versatile building material. My projects recently have  jinvolved making tables out of bamboo. The legs and table-top base are made using normal lengths of bamboo. The surface of the table-top is made by splitting the bamboo longitudinally to make about inch thick panels which can be nailed to the table-top base. My attempts so far have been a bit rough, but the result is not too bad. Cheers, Brendan. — C.S. Dept., James Cook University,        Phone:  (077) 815085. Townsville, QLD, 4811.  Australia.        There’s only one catch – Catch 22.

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Does anyone have ideas or plans for making things out of Bamboo trees?

Sure. I make split bamboo flyfishing rods. By the way bamboo is more properly called a plant, not a tree. Darryl Hayashida

There is almost nothing you can’t make out of bamboo.  It’s a whole technology all by itself.  You should be able to find several good books in your library. Miles Hollister

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Sure. I make split bamboo flyfishing rods. By the way bamboo is more properly called a plant, not a tree.

It is indeed not a tree, but I believe you meant that it is a grass, not that it is a plant (which is of course true.) The fact that it is a grass accounts for the strange chambered structure, as well as its astonishing growth rate. (I read these things in a recent industrial design magazine discussing bamboo’s usefulness, growth worldwide. Sorry, don’t remember the title.) Karl

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Question:

I would appreciate any response.

Hi there. Stan

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I thought I had seen an article about a fly fishing screensaver.  I would appreciate any response.

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Question:

Ron,   Try a bright light green, cream, orange, or hot pink glo bug and sink the fly so it drifts drag free across the bottom. Also try some bright colored western spey flies and steelhead flies. There is a person named Helvie that wrote a book on steelhead flies, look through that also . —

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  On the Puyallup river in Washington State I have seen several people    I have only seen one fly fisherman on this river and wonder   why?                                          Thanks Ron

    Ron – You don’t see many trying to flyfish the Puyallup River because, by the time the steelhead arrive in the Summer or Fall, the river is floured (like coffee with cream).  Once the snow melt on the glaciers is done and we start getting ice melt, only stink baits really work well on this glacier-fed river. The glaciers have volcanic ash in them that "flour" the water.                         – Jewelee                           Puyallup, WA

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On the Puyallup river in Washington State I have seen several people using spincasting gear with spinners to catch Steelhead.  I am new to fly fishing and am hooked.  I know I will never be a worm fisherman again!!!!  I would think that a fly rod would do a awsome job on this river.  I have only seen one fly fisherman on this river and wonder why?  I am going to try this weekend and would like any suggestions on types of flies and patterns to use?  The spinners that I have seen people use have had bright orange on them.                                        Thanks Ron

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Ron,    I have not fished the Puyallup yet, but I tie a wooly bugger pattern with black marabou and flashabou, and an orange marabou that are more successful overall than the classic Skykomish Sunrise, etc. An advantage for me is that they are easy to tie and when I lose one, it’s not like losing an art treasure. email me about your success. I could send you some flies in exchange for good wading locations. good luck!    Jack – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – On the Puyallup river in Washington State I have seen several people using spincasting gear with spinners to catch Steelhead.  I am new to fly fishing and am hooked.  I know I will never be a worm fisherman again!!!!  I would think that a fly rod would do a awsome job on this river.  I have only seen one fly fisherman on this river and wonder why?  I am going to try this weekend and would like any suggestions on types of flies and patterns to use?  The spinners that I have seen people use have had bright orange on them.                                        Thanks Ron

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Question:

Have only fished state parks one of which is Montauk which is the beginning of the current river, also have fished outside the park in the current without much success for the limited time involved.  Look into Crane Creek.

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Where is the 160 acre lake near Montauk Park?

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There are a couple of great spots along the Meremac River.  The first one is just down river from the Meremac Springs State Park to the Dry Fork. The water is clear and cold as a result to the spring.  I caught the nicest brown trout last fall (18").  Caught it on a 4 weight rod with 6x tippet.  The next section is a little further down river at an access point called Cardiac Hill.  You will understand why it is named that when you spend a day on the river and try and make your way back up to the car.  You need to get a map from the conservation department.  It is very difficult to find but well worth it.  Another good spot south of St. James from I-44 is a place called "Windrush".  Privately owned and stocked.  You can pay a flat rate and release or pay by the pound.  The owners limit the stream to 15 or so a day. You need to make a reservation before you show up.  Enjoy fishing and let me know other spots you come across.

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 Any Missouri flyrod fishermen here?  I would like to talk with fly fishers who frequent the Meramec,Current,or any other small Missouri streams in search of trout, smallmouth, or largemouth.                                          Thank you

Response:

Path:

monsanto.com!newspump.wustl.edu!news.starnet.net!wupost!travel!don.wortmann Distribution: world Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Organization: TRAVEL ONLINE / ST. LOUIS ONLINE – (314) 561-4956 Lines: 4  Any Missouri flyrod fishermen here?  I would like to talk with fly fishers who frequent the Meramec,Current,or any other small Missouri streams in search of trout, smallmouth, or largemouth.                                          Thank you

One of the things I like about Missouri is the quality hunting AND fishing.  I like to go to the trophy area downstream of Montauk State Park as well as the pay-as-you-go fly only areas within the park.  Drifting jigs & wooly worms seems to one of the tickets to success.  Still kinda new at fly fishing but I should get more practice at the 160 ac. lake nearby!  Where do you go in MO? Denis Boyle

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Question:

Collins) writes:

There’s all kinds of ‘em with trolling motors attached… I suggest you get yourself a Buddy II depthfinder and go kick some bass. Tom King KOTH Fly Fishing

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Anyone out there do any kick-boating?  I just purchased a J&W Outfitters Kingfisher III with all accessories, and am eager to try it out.  Just wondering if anyone has any comments or tips? Anyone been successful in hooking up a trolling motor to this puppy? I know one will be available next year from J&W.

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Question:

| In some cases, rainbows have been stocked into rivers. One | example of this is the River Derwent which is a tributary of | the River Tyne here in the NE of England. The Tyne, I should | point out is now a rapidly improving salmon river now that | estuary pollution has been cleared up (!!almost!!). | I thought the Wye in Derbyshire was the only English river with a natural population of rainbows. If the Derwent has them reproducing, i would love to hear more. Of course, most of the chalk-streams have been ruined by overstocking of both rainbows and browns. | | There have, however, been some reports of rainbows being | caught at sea by commercial fishermen but these have been | ignored by the government agencies responsible for overseeing | fisheries (Ministry of Agriculture & Fisheries aka MAFF and | the National Rivers Authority aka NRA) who apparently just | didn’t believe it possible until one had been slapped across | the table. Give me a ring about this, at work — 071-956-1682 — and I willput you through to my frinsd the rural affairs correspondent. It would make a good story if we talked to kthe netsman. | | Yesterday evening I was talking with a local netsman who told | me he had been catching quite a number recently and had just | succeeded in convincing the NRA that they existed. These fish | are, according to this guy, akin to steelheads with a mouth | full of teeth, and are voracious feeders. Furthermore they are | not small, running to several pounds. Completely different | from the tame little fish reservoir anglers are used to!! | | What worries me about this is the possibility that these | things are going to start running up our salmon rivers. I | don’t know if they’re going to continue feeding in freshwater. | If so, on what? Not nymphs and flies I expect, unless they | lose those teeth. In Denmark and Southern Sweden, many of the rivers with trout farms on them have a run of steelhead, too. Certainly the Goeta Aelv (which runs through Gothenburg) did. We used to catch them occaionally in the stuary while trying for sea trout. They did not real harm: certainly a lot less than the greedy touristic masses of stocked, non-migratory fish. — Religious Affairs Correspondent | phone +44-71-253-1222 xt 1682 | London, England                 | I’m not paid to have opinions |

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Informed opinion has it that these fish will not breed naturally in our waters and the presence of overwintered, egg bound females in the early part of our season (March) would seem to confirm this.

Aren’t they spring spawners? If so then March would be pre spawn period. Anyways, it may be just possible that they are laying eggs but the habitat does not induce success. Would there be a clear creek for one of the lakes that they could run for spawning? What worries me about this is the possibility that these things are going to start running up our salmon rivers. I don’t know if they’re going to continue feeding in freshwater. If so, on what? Not nymphs and flies I expect, unless they lose those teeth.

Steelhead are spring spawners by nature and will eventually revert back to spring spawning after several generations. This means most will run the rivers in the spring. But some run the rivers in the fall holding overwinter. The fall runners would probably feed on loose salmon eggs, insects, minnows. But during winter their metabolism is slow and would suspect they don’t feed much. In the sea they feed to grow but in the river they would feed to sustain energy spent. So can I ask you all for some info about these things in the wild?? 1. If they do run our rivers and continue to feed avidly, will they threaten existing fish stocks of salmonids by feeding on eggs, fry or smolts.

I doubt this especially if you have a healthy run of salmons. 2. What breeding conditions do they need?

Same as a salmon but they probably would have a higher fry success rate than salmon. 3. Do they run a river, breed and die/return to the sea like atlantic salmon?

Run, spawn, return. or 4. Will they run up a river, graze until the larders empty and then return to the sea?

No! This could be a real problem for us, I’d appreciate some or any info you might have. Finally, In the event the River Tyne ends up with a steelhead run know any good fly patterns??  =8-(

Anything black works here, nymphs, wigglers. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Tight lines

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Hi! In the UK our experience with rainbows has, in the past, been largely limited to stillwaters (mostly reservoirs), which are stocked with hatchery reared fish at intervals. I understand, **though I may be completely wrong on this**, that two basic types (shasta and steelhead) were imported into this country a number of years ago but that insufficient care/understanding by breeders has lead to a thorough mixing of the two. What we have now, in nearly all stillwaters, are, as you can guess, pretty poor specimens which apparently bear absolutely NO RESEMBLANCE WHATSOEVER to the REAL thing. You can, however, still pick up obviously different fish which, presumeably, relate more closely to either of the wild types. Informed opinion has it that these fish will not breed naturally in our waters and the presence of overwintered, egg bound females in the early part of our season (March) would seem to confirm this. In some cases, rainbows have been stocked into rivers. One example of this is the River Derwent which is a tributary of the River Tyne here in the NE of England. The Tyne, I should point out is now a rapidly improving salmon river now that estuary pollution has been cleared up (!!almost!!). There have, however, been some reports of rainbows being caught at sea by commercial fishermen but these have been ignored by the government agencies responsible for overseeing fisheries (Ministry of Agriculture & Fisheries aka MAFF and the National Rivers Authority aka NRA) who apparently just didn’t believe it possible until one had been slapped across the table. Yesterday evening I was talking with a local netsman who told me he had been catching quite a number recently and had just succeeded in convincing the NRA that they existed. These fish are, according to this guy, akin to steelheads with a mouth full of teeth, and are voracious feeders. Furthermore they are not small, running to several pounds. Completely different from the tame little fish reservoir anglers are used to!! What worries me about this is the possibility that these things are going to start running up our salmon rivers. I don’t know if they’re going to continue feeding in freshwater. If so, on what? Not nymphs and flies I expect, unless they lose those teeth. So can I ask you all for some info about these things in the wild?? 1. If they do run our rivers and continue to feed avidly, will they threaten existing fish stocks of salmonids by feeding on eggs, fry or smolts. 2. What breeding conditions do they need? 3. Do they run a river, breed and die/return to the sea like atlantic salmon? or 4. Will they run up a river, graze until the larders empty and then return to the sea? This could be a real problem for us, I’d appreciate some or any info you might have. Finally, In the event the River Tyne ends up with a steelhead run know any good fly patterns??  =8-( Tight lines

Response:

…two basic types (shasta and steelhead) were imported…

For *trout*, I believe most of Europe was stocked with "Eagle Lake" rainbow – a lake not far from Shasta in California, USA. For *steelhead*, I could only guess you have the Skamania steelhead from Washington State, USA.   It has been selected for transplant all over because of its suitability with hatchery operations (i.e. cheap and easy to raise). Trout and steelhead are different critters.   Trout are landlocked, and steelhead are typically sea-run, though if you landlock them, they’d probably do fine – the great lakes in the U.S. are an example where they do just fine, and make runs, the only difference is their ocean is freshwater. What we have now … apparently bear absolutely NO RESEMBLANCE …

The U.S. was stocked primarly with two strains of brown trout from Europe.   Old timers said it was once possible to tell them apart. Now they too have interbred and don’t look quite like the real thing.   Still fun to catch though Informed opinion has it that these fish will not breed naturally in our waters and the presence of overwintered, egg bound females in the early part of our season (March) would seem to confirm this.

Rainbows and cutthroat are spring spawners. Steelhead spawn from fall to spring, depending on latitude.   I suspect you’re close to Oregon and Washington – winter (December) through spring (late April) spawning. Only guessing – stocking stillwaters isn’t too successful (spawning wise) for trout.    Most lakes for example in Oregon, were stocked with trout in the 1920’s, or there abouts, and require repeat stockings every few years.   Only those lakes with small creeks incoming, or gravel banks with lots of hydrodynamics, seem to maintain populations without stocking. Rivers however, trout stock fairly easily.   Ditto steelhead if they have a large body of stillwater and running water to run between. There have, however, been some reports of rainbows being caught at sea by commercial fishermen …..

Wouldn’t surprise me. Some Atlantic Salmon were raised next to a coastal stream in Washington State – some accidently got into the river.   Recently, there have been reports of *large* Atlantic Salmon being caught.   I could imagine the Steelhead in Europe finally establishing themselves. What worries me about this is the possibility that these things are going to start running up our salmon rivers. I don’t know if they’re going to continue feeding in freshwater. If so, on what? Not nymphs and flies I expect, unless they lose those teeth.

I don’t know the spawning period for Atlantics.   Read the article enclosed below – there will certainly be competition at some points in the life cycle.   BTW – Young steelhead (egg – alvein – parr – smolt) are aggressive feeders of anything while in fresh water, which is usually from 6 to 24 months, some 36 months. 1. If they do run our rivers and continue to feed avidly, will they threaten existing fish stocks of salmonids by feeding on eggs, fry or smolts.

Adult Steelhead only come into fresh water to spawn, and don’t feed much.   Also, unlike Atlantics, they don’t do as much repeat spawning. In a given run, maybe 35% are one time repeaters, 10% two time. 2. What breeding conditions do they need?

For Steelhead, Very fast tailout water – 3 to 5 mph or up to 8 kph.  Small gravel in tributaries.   For early incoming steelhead, deep holding pools prior to the spawning season. 3. Do they run a river, breed and die/return to the sea like atlantic salmon?

Yep, except more Atlantic repeat the process. 4. Will they run up a river, graze until the larders empty and then return to the sea?

What’s a larder? know any good fly patterns??  =8-(

Many Atlantic Salmon patterns have been modified for Steelhead. Thomas Gilg FYI – From a back issue of our clubs newsletter:                 Mid-Willamette Fly Fishers Newsletter VOLUME X NO.5                                           May 1993 *** Introduction to Stream Habitat Improvement *** Summarized and adapted by Frank Cochrane from ODF&W publication "An Introduction to Stream Habitat Improvement" For a stream to produce large numbers of trout or salmon, the stream habitat must be in good condition.  This requires cold, clean water, food, and cover.  Most of Oregon’s streams have been degraded by man’s activities.  Therefore, the streams cannot support as many fish as they once could. Loss of spawning gravels, rearing areas, streamside vegetation, instream woody debris, and access to productive areas are some of the major results of man’s careless treatment of the aquatic environment. Many of those problems can be overcome in sections of some streams through habitat improvement projects.  The Conservation Committee is presently looking into possibilities for meaningful projects by the Mid Willamette Fly Fishers to improve the aquatic habitat in some of the nearby streams — and improve our fishing opportunities.  The material below gives an introduction to the basic principles of stream habitat improvement. The "Bottleneck Concept" If some limiting factor exists, a stream’s fish production is restricted or "bottlenecked".  Fish numbers are lower than optimum as a result.  Here are two examples:    o If spawning area is limited, spawning success is low.      Therefore, fish numbers are restricted by the small      number of eggs that hatch and develop into fry.    o If the rearing area is poor or the food supply is      inadequate, the fish become stunted or their numbers      are reduced.  Therefore, the mature fish are not      healthy, or there are not many mature fish. In either case, fish numbers cannot be increased until the stream habitat is improved and the bottleneck is reduced. It is important to understand what is limiting fish production in a particular situation so that efforts to increase the numbers of fish are not misdirected and wasted. What are common Habitat Problems?    o Water Quality.  Temperatures may be too high for trout      or salmon.  Various types of pollution may be having a      negative effect on fish and aquatic insect production.    o Barriers to Production Areas.  These may be either      natural, such as falls or log jams, or man- made, such      as dams and improperly installed culverts.    o Abused Riparian Zone.  Overgrazing, logging, road      building, and urban development often result in loss of      streamside vegetation.  Good plant growth along a      stream provides shade that helps keep water cool,      reduces erosion and silt loads, and contributes insects      to the fish food supply.    o Lack of Spawning Area.  Some streams lack suitable      spawning areas because of scouring by floods, channel      alterations from human activity, or the lack of proper      size gravels in the stream.    o Inadequate Juvenile Rearing Areas.  A mixture of      riffles and pools, undercut streambanks, side channels,      and instream boulders plus a certain amount of large      woody structures are necessary to provide juvenile fish      with an environment for survival and growth.    o Adult Holding Areas are Missing.  Adult fish need pools      for hiding and resting.  This is especially true for      some salmon and steelhead that return several months      before spawning.  Many streams lack sufficient holding      pools for adults. How to Conduct a Project to Improve Stream Habitat Each project to improve stream habitat requires individual consideration to tailor it to the need and the site.  The steps below are essential for a successful project.   1. Identify the Problem.  Before starting a project to      improve stream habitat, we need to find out where and      what is needed, with the help and guidance of ODF&W or      other fishery professionals.  Stream surveys must be      done to collect appropriate information, and the      results must be evaluated.  What are the bottlenecks?   2. Prescribe a Treatment.  We should determine what      actions can be taken to reduce the bottlenecks.   3. Treat the Bottlenecks.  The treatment prescribed above      is then carried out.   4. Evaluate the Results.  Is the treatment accomplishing      the desired result?  We should consider both short and      long term effects.  Are there more healthy fish in the      stream?  Are there lessor bottlenecks that need      treatment?   5. Maintain the Habitat Improvement.  Periodic inspection      and maintenance may be needed to ensure the retention      of any beneficial effect. It is sometimes tempting to get in too big of a hurry to do Steps 1, 4 and 5.  Let’s not fall into that trap! Look for more from the Conservation Committee in the near future concerning projects to improve stream habitat — and to improve fishing opportunities at the same time.

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