Question:

It’s the newbies I’m concerned about. I’ll give you a piece of advice: don’t worry about the newbies. They are a dime a dozen.  Novices have died in the outdoors for thousands of years.   Well, it’s the newbie net.ers that I’m talking about, not newbies to the backcountry. Some of these newbies could have some valuable input if they’d stick around the group.

Too big a "could."  Anyone really knowledgeable doesn’t have to stay here. The majority of posters don’t think that they are newbies (they are).   When you *know it all*, you are dead. No more data processing.

Well it’s not quite like that.    "Like a chicken playing a card game". ???   Newbie net.ers cocking their heads and giving them cards a good smart look. Still, a chicken is a bird brain.   I think Sam got the visuals.

Oh! Yeah, last time I played poker with a chicken, I lost all my feathers. Hey, I thought when she lowered her head and did that one eyed blink that she was bluffing, I swear! Need more chlorine in the gene pool.

Chickens do what chickens do best.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s the newbies I’m concerned about. I’ll give you a piece of advice: don’t worry about the newbies. They are a dime a dozen.  Novices have died in the outdoors for thousands of years.    Well, it’s the newbie net.ers that I’m talking about, not newbies to the backcountry. Some of these newbies could have some valuable input if they’d stick around the group. The majority of posters don’t think that they are newbies (they are).    When you *know it all*, you are dead. No more data processing. I have this image of a newbie wandering into traffic on the Information Superhighway, blindfolded. Better than a physical superhighway.    "Like a chicken playing a card game". ???    Newbie net.ers cocking their heads and giving them cards a good smart look. Still, a chicken is a bird brain.    I think Sam got the visuals. Yeah, last time I played poker with a chicken, I lost all my feathers. Hey, I thought when she lowered her head and did that one eyed blink that she was bluffing, I swear! Need more chlorine in the gene pool.    Ed Huesers    http://www.grandshelters.com

More likely too deep a dive in the White Russian Sea, oh well, it happens…<B stoopid G Sam

Response:

It’s the newbies I’m concerned about. I’ll give you a piece of advice: don’t worry about the newbies. They are a dime a dozen.  Novices have died in the outdoors for thousands of years.

   Well, it’s the newbie net.ers that I’m talking about, not newbies to the backcountry. Some of these newbies could have some valuable input if they’d stick around the group. The majority of posters don’t think that they are newbies (they are).

   When you *know it all*, you are dead. No more data processing. I have this image of a newbie wandering into traffic on the Information Superhighway, blindfolded. Better than a physical superhighway.    "Like a chicken playing a card game". ???

   Newbie net.ers cocking their heads and giving them cards a good smart look. Still, a chicken is a bird brain.    I think Sam got the visuals. Yeah, last time I played poker with a chicken, I lost all my feathers. Hey, I thought when she lowered her head and did that one eyed blink that she was bluffing, I swear! Need more chlorine in the gene pool.

   Ed Huesers    http://www.grandshelters.com

Response:

It’s the newbies I’m concerned about.

I’ll give you a piece of advice: don’t worry about the newbies. They are a dime a dozen.  Novices have died in the outdoors for thousands of years.  The majority of posters don’t think that they are newbies (they are). I have this image of a newbie wandering into traffic on the Information Superhighway, blindfolded.

Better than a physical superhighway.    "Like a chicken playing a card game".

??? Yeah, last time I played poker with a chicken, I lost all my feathers. Hey, I thought when she lowered her head and did that one eyed blink that she was bluffing, I swear!

Need more chlorine in the gene pool.

Response:

It’s the newbies I’m concerned about. I have this image of a newbie wandering into traffic on the Information Superhighway, blindfolded.

   "Like a chicken playing a card game".    Ed Huesers

Response:

It’s the newbies I’m concerned about. I have this image of a newbie wandering into traffic on the Information Superhighway, blindfolded.    "Like a chicken playing a card game".    Ed Huesers

Yeah, last time I played poker with a chicken, I lost all my feathers. Hey, I thought when she lowered her head and did that one eyed blink that she was bluffing, I swear! Sam

Response:

DsrtTravlr – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Valley, Sunnyside, Baker Reservoir, Gunlock, Kane Springs Wash, Rainbow Canyon, Beaver Dam State Park, Desert National Wildlife Refuge, Bird Springs Range, Monitor Valley, West Grand Canyon, Gold Strike Hot Springs, Gold Butte, Delmar Playas, Tikapoo Peak and Area 51, Sharktooth Hill, Christmas Tree Pass, Piute Springs, Cold Creek, Death Valley, Lovell Canyon, Hurricane Cliffs, Virgin Canyon, Tassi Ranch, Aquarius Plateau, Box Death Hollow Wilderness Area, Kaibab Plateau, Kolob Reservoir, River Mountain Trail, <snip, snip, snip. Need I go on?  You could go to a different place every weekend for five years and not hit the same place twice. Go to Mercury Blueprint at Sahara and Highland and get the $15 DOT Nevada State Book of Maps.  It will show you most secondary roads in Nevada.  Join an outdoors group, or hook up with some people who go out, or just get off the couch and go explore.  Nevada has the highest percentage of federal land in the continental US, and there are few fences. Of course, you might wait until the weather cools off.  And then do these things…… take plenty of water, some extra food, tools and repair items and enough warm gear.  Tell someone where you are going, and when you will be back. Leave a map with them.  Nevada has incredible search and rescue, and it is a simple matter if they know where you will be.  If something happens, just stay with your vehicle, and wait for help.  Almost everyone who has died in the desert has tried to walk out instead of staying with the car.  Learn about desert critters, plants, and flash floods….. one of which we had

yesterday. Steve, I sent a copy of this to my neice who is moving to LV.  Thanks, it’s a good long list and I especially wanted her (family) to read the extra precautionary notes you included.  Nobody understands the desert until they have lived it for awhile and finally when they think they do it will surprise them… Bill

Response:

  I use netscape which does have the capability but I choose to use my brain to filter.   It’s the newbies I’m concerned about.

I have this image of a newbie wandering into traffic on the Information Superhighway, blindfolded. Happy trails, Gary "In three words I can sum up everything I’ve learned about life: it goes on." -Robert Frost- Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

Response:

Flood the group with ON-topic posts.

   Oh, I try. I even resort to jokes once in a while. Ignore the off topic stuff. Some posters are difficult because they also post useful things. Others can be entirely ignored.

   Ack. Think of this as incentive to get a newsreader with filtering.

   I use netscape which does have the capability but I choose to use my brain to filter.    It’s the newbies I’m concerned about.    Ed Huesers

Response:

You are kidding, right?  I grew up in Las Vegas, and there are a zillion places within the three to five hours you mention where you can go and not hardly see another human.   You say you are "told" that some places are overrun with tourists.  Don’t believe everything you are told.  While it is entirely true SOME TIMES IN THE YEAR, even those places have their seasons, and going there the other times of the year is very uncrowded.  There are many many places around here where one can go camping out in the boonies on BLM land and have peace and privacy.  Just look around.   Valley, Sunnyside, Baker Reservoir, Gunlock, Kane Springs Wash, Rainbow Canyon, Beaver Dam State Park, Desert National Wildlife Refuge, Bird Springs Range, Monitor Valley, West Grand Canyon, Gold Strike Hot Springs, Gold Butte, Delmar Playas, Tikapoo Peak and Area 51, Sharktooth Hill, Christmas Tree Pass, Piute Springs, Cold Creek, Death Valley, Lovell Canyon, Hurricane Cliffs, Virgin Canyon, Tassi Ranch, Aquarius Plateau, Box Death Hollow Wilderness Area, Kaibab Plateau, Kolob Reservoir, River Mountain Trail, <snip, snip, snip. Need I go on?  You could go to a different place every weekend for five years and not hit the same place twice. Go to Mercury Blueprint at Sahara and Highland and get the $15 DOT Nevada State Book of Maps.  It will show you most secondary roads in Nevada.  Join an outdoors group, or hook up with some people who go out, or just get off the couch and go explore.  Nevada has the highest percentage of federal land in the continental US, and there are few fences.   Of course, you might wait until the weather cools off.  And then do these things…… take plenty of water, some extra food, tools and repair items and enough warm gear.  Tell someone where you are going, and when you will be back. Leave a map with them.  Nevada has incredible search and rescue, and it is a simple matter if they know where you will be.  If something happens, just stay with your vehicle, and wait for help.  Almost everyone who has died in the desert has tried to walk out instead of staying with the car.  Learn about desert critters, plants, and flash floods….. one of which we had yesterday. You can e mail me if you need any particulars.  And anyone else who reads this.  The area around here is awesome, and most people don’t even know it is there. I like it like that. Steve Pat O’Connell writes: We just moved to the Las Vegas area, though we don’t have a "permanent" home just yet–still house hunting. Summer is obviously not a good time to be outdoors here, unless we head for Mt. Charleston. What else is within a short (say within 3 to 5 hours) drive of here that’s worth visiting and hiking in summer? Zion, Bryce Canyon, etc. are that close, but I’m told are overrun with tourists. — Pat O’Connell Take nothing but pictures, Leave nothing but footprints, Kill nothing but vandals…

               ~ Illegitimi Non Carborundum ~

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – then suddenly we have collectivist look-alikes invading from one side while the jackbooted sound-alikes push in from the opposite side.  There’s a movie locked up inside this scenario Dodo’s?   If you mean extinct, yes.   I can make an educated guess and say that the readership of the group is only 20% of what it was.   Ed Huesers Flood the group with ON-topic posts. Ignore the off topic stuff. Some posters are difficult because they also post useful things. Others can be entirely ignored. Think of this as incentive to get a newsreader with filtering.

Here’s the first shot: We just moved to the Las Vegas area, though we don’t have a "permanent" home just yet–still house hunting. Summer is obviously not a good time to be outdoors here, unless we head for Mt. Charleston. What else is within a short (say within 3 to 5 hours) drive of here that’s worth visiting and hiking in summer? Zion, Bryce Canyon, etc. are that close, but I’m told are overrun with tourists. — Pat O’Connell Take nothing but pictures, Leave nothing but footprints, Kill nothing but vandals…

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: The newsgroup rec.outdoors.national-parks was the same way until quite : recently. The posts were at least 75% political in nature. After looking at the subject list of r.o.n-p again (first time I’ve read it for a while) it seems to be back to its old self  unfortunately. There should be an alt.politics.environment newsgroup we could banish these people to, if there’s not already.

The group is named talk.environment. It is useful to know the hierarchy. It could have been talk.politics.environment. That’s not the issue.  As I informed Moore who proposed sci.environnment s.e. should be moderated and as he admitted it was an "I told you so." Can’t banish people. Nothing wrong with politics. And there’s no reason you can’t send followups there if you know how.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – then suddenly we have collectivist look-alikes invading from one side while the jackbooted sound-alikes push in from the opposite side.  There’s a movie locked up inside this scenario    "Birds Of A Feather". Lee wrote Maybe more like Hitchcock’s "The Birds"…: ) Dodo’s?    If you mean extinct, yes.    I can make an educated guess and say that the readership of the group is only 20% of what it was.    Ed Huesers

Yeah, but Ed, we’re the dedicated 20%. Survive we will. Sam Benson

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then suddenly we have collectivist look-alikes invading from one side while the jackbooted sound-alikes push in from the opposite side.  There’s a movie locked up inside this scenario Dodo’s?   If you mean extinct, yes.   I can make an educated guess and say that the readership of the group is only 20% of what it was.   Ed Huesers

Flood the group with ON-topic posts. Ignore the off topic stuff. Some posters are difficult because they also post useful things. Others can be entirely ignored. Think of this as incentive to get a newsreader with filtering. Happy trails, Gary "In three words I can sum up everything I’ve learned about life: it goes on." -Robert Frost- Gary D. Schwartz, Needham, MA, USA Please reply to: garyDOTschwartzATpoboxDOTcom

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I can make an educated guess and say that the readership of the group is only 20% of what it was. I don’t know about number of readers but my reading is about 20% of what it was.

   Well, I’m basing it on our web page counter.    You guys, the core of the group, aren’t going to check our site because you’ve probably been there enough already. The lurkers are also likely to have the same situation.    It’s the newbies that’ll check it and some of them are the core group of tomorrow. All I see is just another swing of the pendulum.  It’s been both better and worse in the past.

   Yeah, I can try and believe in that but this pendulum arm must be a long one. I just wait until it passes.

   Well, it’s a long wait. I was waiting for the election to get over with all last summer. The thing about emotionally laden postings is that it’s hard to maintain righteous fervor over an extended period [with one notable exception] so they tend to flame for months then vanish.

   "Exception" noted and I have to chuckle as it seems that even he has backed off due to his posts getting lost in the pile.  It’s just as bad in other groups, right now others I’m reading are civil but that wasn’t the case last year.

   Well, I suppose it’s the fact that I used to participate in r.o.n-p. until about 2 years ago and the group was doing great. Then along they came and destroyed the group.    Now, after destroying the group, they’ve moved over here.    Ed Huesers

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[snip]   If you mean extinct, yes.   I can make an educated guess and say that the readership of the group is only 20% of what it was.   Ed Huesers

I don’t know about number of readers but my reading is about 20% of what it was.  All I see is just another swing of the pendulum.  It’s been both better and worse in the past.  I just wait until it passes. The thing about emotionally laden postings is that it’s hard to maintain righteous fervor over an extended period [with one notable exception] so they tend to flame for months then vanish.   It’s just as bad in other groups, right now others I’m reading are civil but that wasn’t the case last year.

Response:

: The newsgroup rec.outdoors.national-parks was the same way until quite : recently. The posts were at least 75% political in nature. After looking at the subject list of r.o.n-p again (first time I’ve read it for a while) it seems to be back to its old self  unfortunately. There should be an alt.politics.environment newsgroup we could banish these people to, if there’s not already. Michael

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: Yeah, and falling fast probably.  It really isn’t the same group it was. : Look at groups.google.com and see what the topics were back in the : 1990’s : : Only about half of the posts are related to the backcountry.  Now this : is an unmoderated group. ALL things are on topic. But whet drew me (and : I suspect most) others to this group was the work backcountry. I do not : subscribe to any political groups, because I’m not interested in : caricatured liberal and conservative attacking each other. The newsgroup rec.outdoors.national-parks was the same way until quite recently. The posts were at least 75% political in nature. Some of the group members got fed up and complained to the offending persons’ ISPs for violating the newsgroup charter and they were forced to stop posting there. I’ve heard that’s what happened anyway. Most of those posts were being cross-posted here, and many of the political posts here are from the same people that posted there. The concentration here has definitely increased since r.o.n-p was "clensed". Maybe we need a similar rebellion here? Michael — Michael Caver Photography http://photos.mcaver.com/

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 I can make an educated guess and say that the readership of the group is only 20% of what it was.

Yeah, and falling fast probably.  It really isn’t the same group it was. Look at groups.google.com and see what the topics were back in the 1990’s As I wrote that I wondered myself. Here are the titles from a randomly selected day in Jult  1998: 06 Jul 1998    Where to buy white kerosene in the US?

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They write about mind control lasers affecting your head, and why you should wear tinfoil, but tinfoil acts as a receiver, so you get MORE of the mind control rays (are just past X-ray range, near Gamma rays. Probably are Gamma rays, actually.) Don’t tell my mother-in-law!  I finally convinced her to wear the aluminum foil helmet (made it myself, actually), and I don’t want to lose credibility with her…

when i wear my foil helmet i sound like a truck in reverse *beep beep beep* headkase – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

No, check it out, like, the device is magnetic, right? And, with enough carefull precision and some-one else’s infected butt one can carefully maneouver the device out through one’s mouth like they did in -now what was that k-ko0l christopher lambert movie in the 80’s again? Anyway, I’ve succeeded in removing mine and am currently on the road towards Mexico with a jammer in my left testicle – if all goes to plan the world will be obliterated by 7 ‘o clock this evening. I can’t give you any more details – Wish me luck. I HEAR THE OLD ONES SPEAK TO ME THROUGH JOHN TRAVOLTA’S RECTUM!!! AND STILL, THE PURPOSE OF LIFE HAS NOT YET DAWNED ON ME!!! PLACE YOUR NIPPLE IN MY MOUTH AND I WILL SHOW YOU ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW!!! GIVE ME MY ORANGE JUICE!!! SHMOO!!! -WIZDUMB. (H3′Z S0 SL1CK) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They write about mind control lasers affecting your head, and why you should wear tinfoil, but tinfoil acts as a receiver, so you get MORE  of the mind control rays (are just past X-ray range, near Gamma rays.  Probably are Gamma rays, actually.) Don’t tell my mother-in-law!  I finally convinced her to wear the aluminum foil helmet (made it myself, actually), and I don’t want to lose  credibility with her… when i wear my foil helmet i sound like a truck in reverse *beep beep beep* headkase

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hehe made me smile

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hehe made me smile

me too

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i was just let in on a conspiracy from a guy in a black suburban with a flat top…. he had lepard print cup holders and one of those bead seat covers on the passenger side… he started "have you ever met a kid that wanted to be a preast?" "no" i replied as i started out the door he grabbed me and pulled me back in proclaiming i was being watched now. i asked by who, only to see a group of priests across the street.. he sped away, me still in the seat and he started to unveil all he knew. Priests don’t grow up, there aliens… and the pope is a prince… now, whenever a certain area is to be breached they down what the call a faggit, or a fag as we call them to go hit on all the locals, being a fag he is not seen as a threat.. so he integrates himself into the surroundings… quetly making money here and there while he can.  At night time he is contacted in his basement and beams all his money to the collective, now.. when enough money is reached the collective buys what they call a ultimate money raising house… or church, with the tax free income from the brain washed populi that fills the collection baskets and the rich and famous using there own tax evading ways (set up by the aliens using another node that comes out of the spine)[acid is the way to get around this node... hence the alien populis created drug charges for the drug... this also explains why the 60's/early 70's where creative times... we thought for ourselves] now, jesus was really an alien named bob that used his powers for good… the aliens being evil nailed him to a piece of wood and raped him… many times (there all gay remember) now back to the preists of doom. They followed us down the local blvd. using penis shaped ships… they were cloaked but we say them on the acid boys saburben heat sensors… they cornered us in a ally, when all of a sudden he started to bump suvivor by destiny’s child… he then said the aliens hated women and bad music… and destiny’s child was the worst enemy sense there all secretly lesbain.  which goes into another conspiracy regarding Nuns… but that will come at another time… if your not into acid he also revieled that nude pictures of the golden girls in your wallet also helped cancel out the node. Tyler.

Response:

They write about mind control lasers affecting your head, and why you should wear tinfoil, but tinfoil acts as a receiver, so you get MORE of the mind control rays (are just past X-ray range, near Gamma rays. Probably are Gamma rays, actually.)

Don’t tell my mother-in-law!  I finally convinced her to wear the aluminum foil helmet (made it myself, actually), and I don’t want to lose credibility with her…

Response:

Well, I’ve been reading up on conspiracy theories. Why? probably because my tinfoil isn’t working. Well, here’s a summary of what’s actually going on: The Illuminati do have orbital mind control lasers. But they’re not the Illuminati, that’s just a front. They’re aliens. Government aliens. And they have written many of the conspiracy theories – yeas, especially "Secret Squirrel." They write about mind control lasers affecting your head, and why you should wear tinfoil, but tinfoil acts as a receiver, so you get MORE of the mind control rays (are just past X-ray range, near Gamma rays. Probably are Gamma rays, actually.) They write about alien implants, and even abduct people to spread these theories, always being sure to have them believe the implants are in their heads. Of course, people even tell them, even if they don’t believe them, that it is all in their heads. But is it? No, that’s the conspiracy. You see, they are putting the mind control chips in your ass. How does it work? well, everyone has nerves in their ass, which it attaches to. Very few people check their ass for scars, so few people notice. It’s not active all the time, just when they really need it, and they have to reabduct people every few months to change the batteries. What are the signs? Hemmorhoids. Hemmorhoids are a sure sign you are allergic to the implant, or have just had it replaced and are still sore from the implantation. Other signs include an overwhelming desire to scream "you are a fucking idiot" at random people, especially scientologists. Scientologists are not immune, but are usually controlled by a rival, even more evil, conspiracy. You see, these conspiracies have been at war for thousands of years. The Illuminati are against Scientology, and if they control your ass, will force you to hate John Travolta. But you hated John Travolta before? Yes, this is what they want you to think. Of course, their is a solution. Wrapping your head in tinfoil only exposes you to MORE mindcontrol rays (tinfoil works like an antenna). So, what you need to do instead, is wrap your ass in duct tape. Really. And don’t ever take it off at night, for that is what they want you to do. When you are sleeping is the most important time to wear the duct tape, as that is when they will try to abduct you. Also, to stop them, boobytrap your ass. Really. Moustraps on the outside of the duct tape work good, and can be ducttaped on themselves. Rattraps work even better, but have the drawback of occasionally trapping a rat on your ass, which is not a fun thing, especially if rats have a natural tendency to search your ass for food. Glue mousetraps should not be worn, as they tend to trap, well, the chair you sit on, which is rarely a good thing. Garlic, of course, can always be used in addition to the traps, just in case the Illuminati are allergic to it. Never use mines or explosives, just in case the Illuminati do trigger your ass. And remember, all is not what it seems, especially with tinfoil on your head and ducttape on your ass. — — theoneflasehaddock formerly of deja.com AIM – the1flasehaddock Suspected GLOBAL VILLAGE IDIOT. founder of the ‘Royal Discordian Opposition to the Cursed Number after Nine and Before Seven’ Known mad Imposter Fuckwit, you hatter bastards

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Well, I’ve been reading up on conspiracy theories. Why? probably because my tinfoil isn’t working. Well, here’s a summary of what’s actually going on: Read GURPS Illuminati. Then remember that the author, Nigel Findley, died shortly after the book was published. It has the most interesting version of the OMCL’s you can find.

I’ve been meaning to read that one for a while, I keep hearing how good it is, I just never get around to finding a copy. Instead, I sit at a computer and troll. Yay. — — theoneflasehaddock formerly of deja.com AIM – the1flasehaddock Suspected GLOBAL VILLAGE IDIOT. founder of the ‘Royal Discordian Opposition to the Cursed Number after Nine and Before Seven’ Known mad Imposter Fuckwit, you hatter bastards

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: Well, I’ve been reading up on conspiracy theories. Why? probably because my : tinfoil isn’t working. Well, here’s a summary of what’s actually going on: : : The Illuminati do have orbital mind control lasers. But they’re not the : Illuminati, that’s just a front. They’re aliens. Government aliens. And they : have written many of the conspiracy theories – yeas, especially "Secret : Squirrel." They write about mind control lasers affecting your head, and why : you should wear tinfoil, but tinfoil acts as a receiver, so you get MORE of : the mind control rays (are just past X-ray range, near Gamma rays. Probably : are Gamma rays, actually.) You need to use ARSCC-approved tinfoil hat to keep the mind control waves out of your head.  The ARSCC R&D Lab guarantees they are effective against even Scientology’s toadally gnarly Operating Thetans who can kill you with a thought. Perry Scott Co$ Escapee (ARSCC = alt.religion.scientology Central Committee.  It does not exist.  Really!  Now, see this red light?  … )

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Well, I’ve been reading up on conspiracy theories. Why? probably because my tinfoil isn’t working. Well, here’s a summary of what’s actually going on:

Read GURPS Illuminati. Then remember that the author, Nigel Findley, died shortly after the book was published. It has the most interesting version of the OMCL’s you can find. —   /   Marc Etienne Lachance, HOKuM, LMAA  /<  Episkopos without a cabal, /____ Non-Leader of Something or Another.

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Ever read "Foucault’s Pendulum"? I can’t look at another conspiracy theory the same, now. But, here’s mine:  there _is_ a conspiracy, only it’s not perpetrated by anyone in control of any government, or supergovernment, or occult organisation, or racial group or whatever.  It’s perpetrated by a wide variety of people with enough money not to worry about where their next meal is coming from, or about whether they’ll have a place to sleep, who are so caught up in trying to find some outside, all-encompassing explanation for why they got turned down at the bank for that loan for a jetski, or why Tammy didn’t win first at her school athletics day, or why Uncle Rob got cancer, that they lose sight of the places where they really _are_ being manipulated. Instead of spending some time thinking about (and getting mad about) the unequal distribution of resources (particularly food, but money can always by food, even in a famine) between the First and Third World, they get all anti about GE and how horrible it is that they’re forced to eat fly genes in those nice, fresh tomatoes.   Instead of getting active about overpopulation and/or too-low birth rates, they crow and complain when the government tries to steal _their_ money to build another road or add another few dollars to some superannuation scheme. Instead of seeing that eating unhealthily, not exercising, not going for regular check-ups and not following medical advice, they complain that it’s actually cellphones and suppressed anger and rays from spy satellites that makes them sick.     Instead of doing something constructive to lower the costs of medication to people in other countries (particularly for AIDS medication in Central Africa) to a level that is actually something lower than ten times their yearly income for a year-long course, they moan and whinge about how it’s actually vaccination that creates all the terrible sicknesses that we see in our everyday suburban, middle-class neighbourhood. I could (and will) go on about this, but you get the idea……. Love you heaps, Altair "We didn’t know they were going to drop a space station on us." -Trevor Canty, New Zealand fishing boat skipper, quoted in the New Zealand Herald, March 23, 2001. Coven of the Triple Moon: http://www.geocities.com.Paris/Cafe/8564/

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Question:

Please tell me this is a joke.. Herman No joke. See    http://www.neuticles.com/nnpages/navindex.html

rw Geez! Your web browser must lead an interesting life.<G Kiyu

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If perchance you purchase for your dog a pair of neuticles, handle them with care, and  always clean at first your cuticles, in order to appreciate the texture, although this some appals, just grab your dog by the scruff of the neck and fondle then his balls, some dogs will not like this much, and may in fact be prone to bite, but others may in fact enjoy themselves, and are not inclined to fight. We are aware of course that some people think we may be crackers, but we are also doing a roaring trade selling plastic moulded knackers, these will fit quite well on nearly any animal,  from elephants to mice, and the animals are very proud of them, as they look and feel quite nice. our latest line for avid  fly-dressers whose bent towards  tradition lies, is a set of artificial testicles for rams, the hair from these, ties lovely flies. With many of these things of course, there may be an occasional hitch, before you fit the artificial testicles, make sure the animal is not a bitch, this tends to cause confusion, and the results of this may be absurd, causing weird behaviour, and "the sad dog syndrome" we have heard, as a service to our customers, we have an animal psychiatrist on call, who can inform with authority on the  suitability, of every single ball. Our custom balls fit everything, from antelopes to zebras, and even bulls and hogs, our product is so popular we have extended now our range with plastic dogs, these artificial animals are really excellent value , and will not bark or bite, and they are very cheap to keep, as they do not eat, and also do not shite, they are all machine washable, hygienic and of course devoid of germs, if you would like one of our artificial animals, just call us up for terms. Our range of lifelike products may be the answer to your wildest dreams, you could fish for massive artificial fish, in artificial lakes and streams, go on a safari and  see all the artificial things that crawl or creep, without any personal danger, in our special artificial plastic jeep, but the pride of our endeavours, guaranteed to save you strife, the crowning glory of our product range, is our special plastic wife. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My god… Did you read this: Quote: As Natural As Nature Intended    The texture and firmness of NEUTICLE NATURALS were crafted    based on the firmness and texture of actual animal testicles. End quote.

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These may be similar to the images that keep troubling Timmy. Poor ‘guy’. <g

Yes well, for a guy who eats everything he catches such images would indeed be troubling…or so we hope.

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I have a good supply of polar bear hair for fly tying. Polar Bear hair retails for over $20.00 a sq. in.  I have lots and will sell for $3.50 Sq. In.  I do have quite a bit but it will go fast. Before you buy.

Response:

Number 1, go to rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying. Number 2, put FOR SALE in your title or prepare to get flamed. I have a good supply of polar bear hair for fly tying. Polar Bear hair retails for over $20.00 a sq. in.  I have lots and will sell for $3.50 Sq. In.  I do have quite a bit but it will go fast. Before you buy.

– Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

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I’m looking for hair off a monkey’s balls. Polar bear hair just won’t do. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a good supply of polar bear hair for fly tying. Polar Bear hair retails for over $20.00 a sq. in.  I have lots and will sell for $3.50 Sq. In.  I do have quite a bit but it will go fast. Before you buy.

Response:

If you want nice white coarse hair, it can be had from the balls of aged men sleeping in the park.  Procurement is your problem.  :{) "Some mornings I wonder if it was worth it to gnaw through the leather straps."  – E. Philips

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Please let me know how many monkey balls and what color SPECIFICALLY you are looking for…   alos, please indicate of recent evolutionary cousins of monkeys will do if the exact product is not available.. edwin

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m looking for hair off a monkey’s balls. Polar bear hair just won’t do. I have a good supply of polar bear hair for fly tying. Polar Bear hair retails for over $20.00 a sq. in.  I have lots and will sell for $3.50 Sq. In.  I do have quite a bit but it will go fast. Before you buy.

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Or the synthetic equivalence? Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please let me know how many monkey balls and what color SPECIFICALLY you are looking for…   alos, please indicate of recent evolutionary cousins of monkeys will do if the exact product is not available.. edwin I’m looking for hair off a monkey’s balls. Polar bear hair just won’t do. I have a good supply of polar bear hair for fly tying. Polar Bear hair retails for over $20.00 a sq. in.  I have lots and will sell for $3.50 Sq. In.  I do have quite a bit but it will go fast. Before you buy.

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

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You’re not far off, Herman. There’s a product called Neuticles that are synthetic replacement testicles for neutered dogs.

I humbly relinquish any previous claim to "straight line of the week". Joe F.

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Or the synthetic equivalence? Herman Please let me know how many monkey balls and what color SPECIFICALLY you are looking for…   alos, please indicate of recent evolutionary cousins of monkeys will do if the exact product is not available.. edwin

You’re not far off, Herman. There’s a product called Neuticles that are synthetic replacement testicles for neutered dogs. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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You’re not far off, Herman. There’s a product called Neuticles that are synthetic replacement testicles for neutered dogs.

"Would you like those wrapped sir?" "No thanks, I’ll lick them here"<g. — Charlie…

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You’re not far off, Herman. There’s a product called Neuticles that are synthetic replacement testicles for neutered dogs.

Oh shit!   Those are for DOGS? Joe F.

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Yeah, and would you mind putting your leg down please ? TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re not far off, Herman. There’s a product called Neuticles that are synthetic replacement testicles for neutered dogs. Oh shit!   Those are for DOGS? Joe F.

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Please tell me this is a joke.. Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Or the synthetic equivalence? Herman Please let me know how many monkey balls and what color SPECIFICALLY you are looking for…   alos, please indicate of recent evolutionary cousins of monkeys will do if the exact product is not available.. edwin You’re not far off, Herman. There’s a product called Neuticles that are synthetic replacement testicles for neutered dogs. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

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Please tell me this is a joke.. Herman

No joke. See         http://www.neuticles.com/nnpages/navindex.html — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Herman, Haven’t you ever seen a dog lick his "Neuticles "? Ernie, Remove SPAM to e-mail

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please tell me this is a joke.. Herman Or the synthetic equivalence? Herman Please let me know how many monkey balls and what color SPECIFICALLY you are looking for…   alos, please indicate of recent evolutionary cousins of monkeys will do if the exact product is not available.. edwin You’re not far off, Herman. There’s a product called Neuticles that are synthetic replacement testicles for neutered dogs. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam) — Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

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But you have to wonder about a company that uses a quote from "The Daily Show" (fake news show on Comedy Central) as the lead on their "What the press is saying" page. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No joke. See http://www.neuticles.com/nnpages/navindex.html

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But you have to wonder about a company that uses a quote from "The Daily Show" (fake news show on Comedy Central) as the lead on their "What the press is saying" page.

I’m not endorsing the product! I think the whole concept is ridiculous. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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rw, I wasn’t implying anything about you.  I’m just amazed that the company thinks being lampooned on the Daily Show is ‘good press’.  Weirdly funny.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But you have to wonder about a company that uses a quote from "The Daily Show" (fake news show on Comedy Central) as the lead on their "What the press is saying" page. I’m not endorsing the product! I think the whole concept is ridiculous.

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Yes.. They do it merely to show off, imho. Basterds. Herman Herman, Haven’t you ever seen a dog lick his "Neuticles "? Ernie, Remove SPAM to e-mail

        Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

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My god… Did you read this: Quote: As Natural As Nature Intended    The texture and firmness of NEUTICLE NATURALS were crafted    based on the firmness and texture of actual animal testicles. End quote. Yeah right.. like anyone would check.. or notice the difference.. Herman, horrified – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Please tell me this is a joke.. Herman No joke. See         http://www.neuticles.com/nnpages/navindex.html — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

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Yeah right.. like anyone would check.. or notice the difference.. Herman, horrified

Wonder how they recruit people for their quality control department (and what the interview is like)<g. — Charlie…

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Don’t. Don’t wonder, don’t imagine. I merely pondered and had more than enough trouble to loose the mental image. Herman Yeah right.. like anyone would check.. or notice the difference.. Herman, horrified Wonder how they recruit people for their quality control department (and what the interview is like)<g. — Charlie…

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

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Don’t. Don’t wonder, don’t imagine. I merely pondered and had more than enough trouble to loose the mental image.

These may be similar to the images that keep troubling Timmy. Poor ‘guy’. <g — Charlie…

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Question:

And don’t be ashamed to dunk a worm for catfish.

I was a fairly successful bass fishermen in my youth, but once I returned in my adult years I have not done well, even with the same tackle and same locations, well, I can understand that. I figured if I wasn’t going to catch fish, I might as well do it with style (flyfishing).  I know this sounds sarcastic, but there’s truth in it. I *do* need to get a better start this time, and would like guidance and lessons, in my area, which is San Jose – the Santa Cruz moutain area not far from me…. I remember as a kid with my dad fishing for and watching steelhead in the San Lorenzo river in Boulder creek, in the tropical parts of the mountains. They would circle in and out of the dark pools.  This was before the great drought in the 80’s which did in much of the salmon and trout in that area. My desire to fish has much to do with where I fish as it does just catching fish.   Hope this makes sense.  And I would love to fish for blue gill if I knew somewhere good. Greg

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RP138 wrote … … It sounds like you should go out with a guide  - several times to learn what works.  This way you will catch fish and remain interested in a really great sport.  A few $ spent on lessons always makes a real difference.    Bob.

If you intend to fly fish, starting with a guide is the best advice I know of.  This can be expensive (250-300 $ a day) but a good guide is worth it. There is a fly fishing school in Northern California called Clearwater House (they have a web site).  This is where I got jump started into fly fishing and I highly recommend it (or others like it, if you can find them). Another key factor in fishing, any type of fishing, is having a fishing buddy.  Even though you’ll see solitary fishers, you will find that the social aspect of fishing is an important factor for most fishers.  This NG is proof of that.  A good place to meet potential fishing partners is at a fishing club.  Most localities have fishing clubs for every type of fishing; bass clubs, fly fishing clubs, deep sea clubs…you name it and generally they welcome newcomers.  There’s a few curmudgeonly types on ROFF who will poo-poo this advice because it’s not for them.  Just ignore them. Find some other’s who enjoy what you want to try and join them.  That’s the surest way to start yourself off on a pastime that will reward you for a life time.

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Another key factor in fishing, any type of fishing, is having a fishing buddy.  Even though you’ll see solitary fishers, you will find that the social aspect of fishing is an important factor for most fishers.

So right.  Makes all the difference.  But it’s not like golf – can’t explain it, but that’s the case .There’s a few curmudgeonly types on ROFF who will poo-poo this advice because it’s not for them.  Just ignore them.

That’s true too. But I’ll bet those cumudgeonly types started fishing with somebody, and graduated to the solitary fisherman.  I enjoy fishing alone, but there’s nothing better than the cold beer with your fishing buddy at the end of the day. Mark Faulkner

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(snipped) << There’s a few curmudgeonly types on ROFF who will poo-poo this advice because it’s not for them.  Just ignore them. Find some other’s who enjoy what you want to try and join them.  That’s the surest way to start yourself off on a pastime that will reward you for a life time. I beg your pardon, David.  I am a curmedgeon and I think you have given the best advice possible!  Nothing learns a man quicker than catchin’ a fish, and many times, a guide is the only way.  I applaud your advice, sir.  The advice about finding a fishing partner is especially good — I am willing and able if you live in Mass. Dave "the biggest curmedgeon around" LaCourse

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<<That’s true too. But I’ll bet those cumudgeonly types started fishing with somebody, and graduated to the solitary fisherman.  I enjoy fishing alone, but there’s nothing better than the cold beer with your fishing buddy at the end of the day. This is true.  I will steal two Sleeman’s from Peter Charles and share with you at the ‘clave.  But *only* if I catch more fish than you! Dave LaCourse

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Dave "the biggest curmedgeon around" LaCourse

Using George’s spell checker again Dave<g? (Maybe a curmudgeon contest at the clave?) — Charlie…

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Dave "the biggest curmedgeon around" LaCourse

Using George’s spell checker again Dave<g? (Maybe a curmudgeon contest at the clave?) — LOL.  Ya got me, Charlie.  And you are on….. Dave

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Dave "the biggest curmedgeon around" LaCourse Using George’s spell checker again Dave<g? (Maybe a curmudgeon contest at the clave?) — LOL.  Ya got me, Charlie.  And you are on…..

Rocking chairs at 2 paces it is<g! — Charlie…

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Every 4 to 5 years I get interested in fishing, again…. Usually I go out, fish like mad for a few months, and then after not catching a damn thing, give it up for the next 4 to 5 years. I tried flyfishing last go-around, but didn’t get far. Can anyone recommend a good rod/reel/line/leader/fly set-up for fishing the streams around Boulder creek, CA, or even Guadalupe river in San Jose (yes, I’ve heard there’s fish). Any help would be appreciated, I definately would like to keep it as simple as possible. Greg

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A nice 81/2′ to 9′ 4wt with a cheap reel and a good floating weight forward line should do the trick.  It sounds like you should go out with a guide  - several times to learn what works.  This way you will catch fish and remain interested in a really great sport.  A few $ spent on lessons always makes a real difference.    Bob.

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<<A nice 81/2′ to 9′ 4wt with a cheap reel and a good floating weight forward line should do the trick.  It sounds like you should go out with a guide  - several times to learn what works.  This way you will catch fish and remain interested in a really great sport.  A few $ spent on lessons always makes a real difference.    Bob. Hi, Bob. You know, I have seen lots of advice given on these pages to newbies, but your’s (above) makes a helluva lot of sense, especially the "guide" part.  There is nothing more convincing to a newbie than catching fish, and if they know little about the art, the best way is with a guide.   Dave LaCourse

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Every 4 to 5 years I get interested in fishing, again…. : : Usually I go out, fish like mad for a few months, and then : after not catching a damn thing, give it up for the next 4 to 5 : years. Greg, This may sound snide or something…but I mean it in all honesty. Unless you change your approach, your mentality towards it, you will not be a fisherman. You will give up each time. Fishing cannot be aquired in a few months. It is not a recreation you will conquer in a short time by throwing yourself at it. Sure, you can learn some basic skills, like flycasting, by hours of backyard practice. But where to cast? What to cast? When to cast?  All these questions will only begin to be answered by spending time, much time, on the water. By watching, waiting, and making many, many mistakes. It is a lifetime of learning, of which we all just scratch the surface. It is about figuring out how the natural world is working on that day, in that hour, that you are there, so that you can mimic it, or agitate it, or attract it, in such a way as to make a fish strike. If you perservere, the rewards are great. And, you can make it easier at the start by going after fish that are generally easy to catch, like panfish. Your local shop can tell you what and where you might find easier fishing. And don’t be ashamed to dunk a worm for catfish. JonCook.

What Jon said nails it also. I went fishing at Jordanelle Res. yesterday, float tubed while the ole lady tried her kickboat. 4 hours in the water-didn’t catch a damn thing froze my ass and feet off. Didn’t even get a hit. Same with my wife. But it didn’t matter. We were out there, having fun(?) It’s a state of mind. I fish because it’s relaxing, catching them is an added bonus. Plus it keeps me out of trouble. Plus it’s good distance casting practice. We did help some  first time, "We just got the boat and the salesman said it was all ready to go" boaters. No one bothered to tell them what the little hole below the outdrive was for and why there was no plug in it. After he saw he was taking on water, he decided to ask for some timely advice. The engine wouldn’t stay running, but his bilge pump worked great. My wife had her chest waders still on and walked out to help them get a little closer to shore where we could load it on the trailer. (there was no dock because this is a PWC launch ramp). Got the boat loaded, couldn’t find any plug, and told him it would be a good idea to also unplug his lights from the trailer before launching. Didn’t catch a fish  yesterday, but still had a hellava good time. done that

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Question:

Don’t piss off a lawyer true….make a pile of at least 4 or 5 of them first. — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

        et tu, brute? wayno, learning to lighten up – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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You guys have more patience with assholes than I have.  I simply filter out his name from the news group.  Then the only problem I have is the band width you give him.  If it continues I filter out the "subject.name".

Yup – that’s my next step. I’d hoped that it wouldn’t come to that – as we all know how tangential threads run around here – and I might miss something good by flushing by threads ;^) Perhaps we should have a standard message that explains the rules of etiquette to them.  If they don’t take that advice then a moderator will simply write a message to filter that persons name.  All who agree will filter it and all who disagree won’t.  The moderator will add the "subject name" of any future posts which deal with the asshole and send it out for filtering

Nope – that won’t fly. First, who wants to be "moderator" of this group? (not me, that’s fer damn sure) Second, it’d be a thankless job – fraught with second-guessing (surely a "damned if you do/damned if you don’t" function). Beyond that, the group is full of people that are using various newsreaders that don’t provide filtering (includes most of MickeySoft’s newsreaders, older versions of Netscape, and whatever it is that AOL forces on its clients). The easiest thing to do for those who use readers sans filtering abilities is to manually SET MODE IGNORE. /daytripper

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  The olive branch is certainly appreciated.  If you read my post to Mr. G and Mr. Connor, I think you’ll see that I recognize the same phenomenon you do.  Furthermore, one of the problems of electronic communications is that participants are not able to actually see how one speaks his words, unable to interpret the non-verbal communication that accompanies pure language. If I swaggered into your imaginary bar and said (to use your words) "what a bunch of silly children!  i came here expecting something different, something that suits *me*; but you drivel-spouting morons aren’t what i was looking for!  and besides, you don’t wear clothes that are universally neat and tidy!" if I said that with a big old grin and a wink, and then bought you all a drink, the reaction might likely be different.     I would like to continue to point out, however, that this is not and never has been about suiting *me* or my *ideal*.   Honestly, that’s rather overstating the case–but I’m beginning to understand that you’re a lawyer, and so I’ll forgive the tendency.  I have been listening in here for a few weeks, and when I’ve had something to add, I’ve added it.  You guys haven’t noticed for whatever reasons.  I would not have peeped my peep, were it not for the fact that I saw others identifying the same gripe.  It struck me as a legitimate gripe.  On my server, this is my only option for a fly-fishing newsgroup.  Seemed reasonable that folks could try to be reasonable in terms of wasting each other’s time.  As I said to Mr. Connor yesterday, the "dog" point of attack suddenly shifted from "don’t read the posts you don’t like" to "geez, the threads are sometimes interwoven, deal with it," which, I mean, you’re a lawyer, you’ve seen this before–doesn’t a sudden switch in logic generally indicate the implicit recognition that the frontline logic isn’t holding up so well?  And the things is, the problem is one that’s really easy to fix.   Really simple.  You know it, I know it, everybody knows it.  So why not fix it?     I know you know what I mean.  Too, I recognize that Mr. George doesn’t control you folks.  It never occured to me otherwise.  I think his was merely an effort similar to yours, using a different tactic, and one that was equally appreciated.   So … peace.   But, please, please, please try to label off-subject posts more clearly.

Response:

<<I suspect that the history books, like most Americans, are going to focus on the success and/or failures he had in meeting his agenda. I am still waiting for  one of his promises from 1992 – a middle-class tax cut..  In the last SOU he promises everyone something.  Typical Clinton. Dave LaCourse

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rw wrote I suspect that the history books, like most Americans, are going to focus on the success and/or failures he had in meeting his agenda. If a guy like Nixon, who did quit in disgrace, can now be viewed warmly for his statesmanship one can only guess at how kind history will be to a man who makes the Teflon Don look like a dirty old fryin pan. Right. History sure remembers those Republicans who failed to convict Johnson warmly. As if!

Yes.  History remembers what people did with their political power.  My point exactly.  Thanks. The Republicans you refer to are remembered for their vindictiveness.  They used their power to punish the South and thereby extended regional enmity and all of its ramifications far beyond the end of the war.  So history doesn’t paint them very kindly.  (I am sure some of you boys out there from the South can wax rhapsodically on this subject for hours!) How ironic that the current crop of Republicans is behaving so like their forebears and likely will reap the same reward from history.  Hmmm…I don’t know the makeup of the Repubs that are really driving this whole thing to the wall, but aren’t they Southern Republicans??? …. Doubly ironic if true. Not only that.  When all is said and done, history is once again going to laud the genius of the "Framers" who had the foresight to require a 2/3 vote for removing the president from office, thereby insuring that a vindictive ‘Minority’ party, that temporarily enjoys a majority in the congress, could not overturn the will of the people. Man.  If your a Repub, that’s gotta hurt. —                                                       -dnc-

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DavPLaC wrote <<Unless the Republican Guard Taliban Party scores on their Hail Mary pass to the witnesses, which is VERY unlikely, Clinton is home free. I would rather commit political suicide ( Repub) than commit moral suicide (Dem).  Clinton will never be "free".  Whether you like it or not, he is *IN* the history books as being impeached, shamed, with more than 85% of the people saying they don’t trust him or believe him.  If a sitting president could have been indicted, he would have been, found guilty,  and gone to jail for 18 months like others guilty of perjury.  I voted for the bastard in ‘92 — shame on me!

I suspect that the history books, like most Americans, are going to focus on the success and/or failures he had in meeting his agenda. If a guy like Nixon, who did quit in disgrace, can now be viewed warmly for his statesmanship one can only guess at how kind history will be to a man who makes the Teflon Don look like a dirty old fryin pan. —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

<<Unless the Republican Guard Taliban Party scores on their Hail Mary pass to the witnesses, which is VERY unlikely, Clinton is home free. I would rather commit political suicide ( Repub) than commit moral suicide (Dem).  Clinton will never be "free".  Whether you like it or not, he is *IN* the history books as being impeached, shamed, with more than 85% of the people saying they don’t trust him or believe him.  If a sitting president could have been indicted, he would have been, found guilty,  and gone to jail for 18 months like others guilty of perjury.  I voted for the bastard in ‘92 — shame on me!

Response:

I suspect that the history books, like most Americans, are going to focus on the success and/or failures he had in meeting his agenda. If a guy like Nixon, who did quit in disgrace, can now be viewed warmly for his statesmanship one can only guess at how kind history will be to a man who makes the Teflon Don look like a dirty old fryin pan.

Right. History sure remembers those Republicans who failed to convict Johnson warmly. As if! — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

<<Unless the Republican Guard Taliban Party scores on their Hail Mary pass to the witnesses, which is VERY unlikely, Clinton is home free. I would rather commit political suicide ( Repub) than commit moral suicide (Dem).  Clinton will never be "free".  Whether you like it or not, he is *IN* the history books as being impeached, shamed, with more than 85% of the people saying they don’t trust him or believe him.  If a sitting president could have been indicted, he would have been, found guilty,  and gone to jail for 18 months like others guilty of perjury.  I voted for the bastard in ‘92 — shame on me!

Would you care to place a bet on whether Clinton will be convicted of one of these "crimes" after he leaves office? — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Mr. G wrote I notice of late that you have been promoting the need for one, and in a way that implies you have one.  I’m sure you do, I just hope it’s in full gear when the Senate decides not to remove you know who from office. By the way, I bit on your $10 bet that the Senate would remove him (IOW, my money is on the Senate NOT removing him)

Sounds like a solid bet to me. Unless the Republican Guard Taliban Party scores on their Hail Mary pass to the witnesses, which is VERY unlikely, Clinton is home free. The voters will remember, just like they remembered about the Republicans shutting down the government. The Democrats will make sure they remember. There will be hell to pay. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I for one vote NO for a moderator. Who do you have deciding what’s right and what’s wrong. Conservative Republican Congressmen from southern states?

Oops. That should be "conservative" in quotes, because they very clearly have no interest whatsoever in conservation, especially when it conflicts with the profits of their fat-cat special-interest sugar-daddy campaign contributors. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I for one vote NO for a moderator. Who do you have deciding what’s right and what’s wrong.

Conservative Republican Congressmen from southern states? — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Mr. G wrote

I notice of late that you have been promoting the need for one, and in a way that implies you have one.  I’m sure you do, I just hope it’s in full gear when the Senate decides not to remove you know who from office. By the way, I bit on your $10 bet that the Senate would remove him (IOW, my money is on the Senate NOT removing him) ….and double twitch   —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

I for one vote NO for a moderator. Who do you have deciding what’s right and what’s wrong. I hate censorship in all of it’s nasty forms. An occasional commercial spam or a demo spam is ok with me, it provides a few chuckles. If some of you roffians want a moderated group, simply go start one. ROFF is the land of the FREE. –Wataugan Walt

<snippered

Response:

0] : You guys have more patience with assholes than I have.  I simply filter out : his name from the news group.  Then the only problem I have is the band : width you give him.  If it continues I filter out the "subject.name". : Perhaps we should have a standard message that explains the rules of : etiquette to them.  If they don’t take that advice then a moderator will : simply write a message to filter that persons name.  All who agree will : filter it and all who disagree won’t.  The moderator will add the "subject : name" of any future posts which deal with the asshole and send it out for : filtering : Ernie Harrison.. Hey Ernie a standard message has been floating around for awhile. This is it below. With a little editing in could be made ROFF specific  Dear   [ ] sir      [ ] clueless one  [ ] twit          [ ] great man on campus   [ ] madam    [ ] dweeb         [ ] twerp         [ ] comrade   [ ] Elvis    [ ] moon beam     [ ] boor          [ ] Obergruppenfuehrer   [ ] citoyen  [ ] Geek          [ ] grad student  [ ] cur  You are being gently flamed because.   [ ] you continued a boring useless stupid thread   [ ] you repeatedly posted to the same thread that you just posted to   [ ] you repeatedly initiated incoherent, flaky, and mindless threads   [ ] you posted a piece riddled with profanities   [ ] you advocated Net censorship   [ ] you SCREAMED! (used all caps)   [ ] you posted some sort of crap that doesn’t belong in this group   [ ] you posted the inanely stupid ‘Make Money Fast’ article   [ ] you threatened others with physical harm   [ ] you made a bigoted statement(s)   [ ] you repeatedly assumed unwarranted moral or intellectual superiority   [ ] you are under the misapprehension that this group is your preserve   [ ] you repeatedly shown lack of humor   [ ] you are apparently under compulsion to post to every threat   [ ] you are posting an anonymous attack Get a life. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories  (remove x’s from email if not      Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971   a spammer) Phone: (650)-857-5491              

Response:

 The olive branch is certainly appreciated.  If you read my post to Mr. G and Mr. Connor, I think you’ll see that I recognize the same phenomenon you do.  Furthermore, one of the problems of electronic communications is that participants are not able to actually see how one speaks his words, unable to interpret the non-verbal communication that accompanies pure language.

        i am in complete accord with your assessment of some of the problems of this unique sort of communication. If I swaggered into your imaginary bar and said (to use your words) "what a bunch of silly children!  i came here expecting something different, something that suits *me*; but you drivel-spouting morons aren’t what i was looking for!  and besides, you don’t wear clothes that are universally neat and tidy!" if I said that with a big old grin and a wink, and then bought you all a drink, the reaction might likely be different.

        that’s a close call, jeff.  the key is having come to *know* you.  I would like to continue to point out, however, that this is not and never has been about suiting *me* or my *ideal*.   Honestly, that’s rather overstating the case–but I’m beginning to understand that you’re a lawyer, and so I’ll forgive the tendency.

        so far, i have noted two posts that clearly cheered your approach and content.  but i grant you that there may be others out there who are frustrated by the inability of some of us to remain so deadly serious, and boring.  I have been listening in here for a few weeks, and when I’ve had something to add, I’ve added it.  You guys haven’t noticed for whatever reasons.

probably because many of us just don’t want to confine our discussions to the latest method of double hauling, or our last trip to christmas island, or what is the hot setup for flats shirts, or how to fish a ten foot wide stream.  or, we just weren’t interested.  not saying that those were the subject matter of your posts, of course; there i go, "overstating my case" again.   I would not have peeped my peep, were it not for the fact that I saw others identifying the same gripe.  It struck me as a legitimate gripe.  On my server, this is my only option for a fly-fishing newsgroup.  Seemed reasonable that folks could try to be reasonable in terms of wasting each other’s time.  As I said to Mr. Connor yesterday, the "dog" point of attack suddenly shifted from "don’t read the posts you don’t like" to "geez, the threads are sometimes interwoven, deal with it," which, I mean, you’re a lawyer, you’ve seen this before–doesn’t a sudden switch in logic generally indicate the implicit recognition that the frontline logic isn’t holding up so well?

not relevant.  this isn’t a problem in logic, or a legal argument.  it is about manners, and expectations.  And the things is, the problem is one that’s really easy to fix.   Really simple.  You know it, I know it, everybody knows it.  So why not fix it?    I know you know what I mean.  Too, I recognize that Mr. George doesn’t control you folks.  It never occured to me otherwise.  I think his was merely an effort similar to yours, using a different tactic, and one that was equally appreciated.   So … peace.   But, please, please, please try to label off-subject posts more clearly.

i have already begun to function in that fashion.  you may find many others more difficult to persuade.  but i am pleased that you understand that we welcome anyone as a participant in this group.  you will be treated very close to the way in which you treat others.  many folks who were wary about me, and me about them, six months ago, are now close cyberfriends.  be patient.  good to have you,. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

You guys have more patience with assholes than I have.  I simply filter out his name from the news group.

        i like the "find his mommy" approach.  this may be a job for (unspeakable name). wayno the deadly serious – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Just as a point of clarification, Microsoft’s Outlook Express does provide filtering…it’s just hard to find. Unfortunately, I’ve been forced to find the facility lately. Check under Tools on the menu…select Newsgroup Filters… Hope this helps! –Andy – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You guys have more patience with assholes than I have.  I simply filter out his name from the news group.  Then the only problem I have is the band width you give him.  If it continues I filter out the "subject.name". Yup – that’s my next step. I’d hoped that it wouldn’t come to that – as we all know how tangential threads run around here – and I might miss something good by flushing by threads ;^) Perhaps we should have a standard message that explains the rules of etiquette to them.  If they don’t take that advice then a moderator will simply write a message to filter that persons name.  All who agree will filter it and all who disagree won’t.  The moderator will add the "subject name" of any future posts which deal with the asshole and send it out for filtering Nope – that won’t fly. First, who wants to be "moderator" of this group? (not me, that’s fer damn sure) Second, it’d be a thankless job – fraught with second-guessing (surely a "damned if you do/damned if you don’t" function). Beyond that, the group is full of people that are using various newsreaders that don’t provide filtering (includes most of MickeySoft’s newsreaders, older versions of Netscape, and whatever it is that AOL forces on its clients). The easiest thing to do for those who use readers sans filtering abilities is to manually SET MODE IGNORE. /daytripper

Response:

 I know you know what I mean.  Too, I recognize that Mr. George doesn’t control you folks.  It never occured to me otherwise.  I think his was merely an effort similar to yours, using a different tactic, and one that was equally appreciated.   So … peace.   But, please, please, please try to label off-subject posts more clearly. i have already begun to function in that fashion.  you may find many others more difficult to persuade.  but i am pleased that you understand that we welcome anyone as a participant in this group.  you will be treated very close to the way in which you treat others.  many folks who were wary about me, and me about them, six months ago, are now close cyberfriends.  be patient.  good to have you,. wayno

DUCK! —

Question:

Hello, it is much easier to take the non-ac-bus from Hat Yai to Satun (96 km to the Southwest) in the morning at 7.10 am or 9.40 am for about 30 Baht.

by me at lunch.  er, sorry, you might make it for dinner.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From Satun take the taxi for about 20 Baht to the harbour plus the Express Ferry at 1 pm or 4 pm for 150 Baht in 75 Minutes. Immigration formalities are at the pier. Have fun. Ciao Maybe not the most direct route, but jump the train down to Butterworth, and catch a ferry from Penang up to Langkwai. Steve Hello: Anybody with info on this please post/email.  Will also appreciate info on inexpensive accomodation at these two places.  I plan on being there mid-December.  I will fly from the US to BKK and then domestic to Hat Yai. Langkwai is across the border. Thanks in advance. Satya

Response:

Hello, it is much easier to take the non-ac-bus from Hat Yai to Satun (96 km to the Southwest) in the morning at 7.10 am or 9.40 am for about 30 Baht. by me at lunch.  er, sorry, you might make it for dinner.

So what do you do once you exit your cool A/C bus? Turn on your portable, battery-powered air-conditioner, or rent a luxury limousine to drive you around? Most of the Thais survive the non-AC buses. You will too… – Fabian

Response:

There was once a ferry, during the dry season, from Satun town to Langkawi. No need to go to Penang first. Only way to know if the ferry will operate this December is to simply go to Satun town and ask about it. There are many local travelers, so my guess is yes, it will operate. For a ride from Hat Yai to Satun town, ask any "tuk tuk" driver in Had Yai. He will know not only about the public buses, but also about the small and private mini-vans which ferry local Thai office workers between Had Yai and Satun town during the rush hours each day. Foreigners are welcome on this mini-vans. Note that this is an "international" ferry crossing. Passports will be checked at a small island about halfway between Satun and Langkawi, and the small ship will be inspected. The islands in the area are fantastic. Small boats to the islands on the Thai side of the border leave mostly from a small fishing village called Pak Bara. — George Moore http://www.slip.net/~georgem – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe not the most direct route, but jump the train down to Butterworth, and catch a ferry from Penang up to Langkwai. Steve Hello: Anybody with info on this please post/email.  Will also appreciate info on inexpensive accomodation at these two places.  I plan on being there mid-December.  I will fly from the US to BKK and then domestic to Hat Yai. Langkwai is across the border. Thanks in advance. Satya

Response:

Maybe not the most direct route, but jump the train down to Butterworth, and catch a ferry from Penang up to Langkwai. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: Anybody with info on this please post/email.  Will also appreciate info on inexpensive accomodation at these two places.  I plan on being there mid-December.  I will fly from the US to BKK and then domestic to Hat Yai. Langkwai is across the border. Thanks in advance. Satya

Response:

Hello, it is much easier to take the non-ac-bus from Hat Yai to Satun (96 km to the Southwest) in the morning at 7.10 am or 9.40 am for about 30 Baht. From Satun take the taxi for about 20 Baht to the harbour plus the Express Ferry at 1 pm or 4 pm for 150 Baht in 75 Minutes. Immigration formalities are at the pier. Have fun. Ciao – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Maybe not the most direct route, but jump the train down to Butterworth, and catch a ferry from Penang up to Langkwai. Steve Hello: Anybody with info on this please post/email.  Will also appreciate info on inexpensive accomodation at these two places.  I plan on being there mid-December.  I will fly from the US to BKK and then domestic to Hat Yai. Langkwai is across the border. Thanks in advance. Satya

Response:

Hello: Anybody with info on this please post/email.  Will also appreciate info on inexpensive accomodation at these two places.  I plan on being there mid-December.  I will fly from the US to BKK and then domestic to Hat Yai. Langkwai is across the border. Thanks in advance. Satya

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

Brian, I have caught many suckers fishing for trout, almost always on nymphs.                                 Mark Faulkner

Response:

Check the July/August issue of American Angler magazine for some tips on fly fishing for suckers. John Likakis

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

much real help.  I have caught suckers a number of times (fair hooked) and on one occasion in the Kakisa River in the NWT, thought I had hooked up with a world record grayling. The fly was a Golden Stone but the kicker is that the water was quite turbid. Because suckers feed off the bottom it is unlikely in clear water with any velocity that you will have much chance. Small nymphs right on the bottom in rather slow moving water will fare better. Carp are another story altogether, they will take a moving fly.

Response:

While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

Response:

. . . And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little . . . Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer

Unlike carp, suckers appear to be exclusively bottom feeders.  Their underslung mouths do not encourage them to take anything not actually resting on the bottom: and their digestions probably absorb anything from algae to big insects e.g. stoneflies.  They seem especially fond of worms, which hints they may scent food. A northern species of sucker called the Northern Redhorse is a beautiful fish (red fins) that runs to 30 inches and could break most fly tippets. Because so unafraid of predators, they can be caught on big nymphs if you can manage a dead drift within one inch of the bottom.  Dead drift (no skidding sideways) is ultra difficult on tippets strong enough to land a big one. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

… snip stuff preliminary to trying to catch suckers … Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin

I am no expert, so have several grains of salt handy, but I believe that suckers determine what is food primarily by the smell of it, whereas bass and trout are sight hunters, determining what is food primarily by what it looks like (I think pike fall into this group as well).  Anyway, because a fly smells like a lump of feathers, fur, and steel, I would guess that you would have limited success with them.   Maybe if you smear that wet fly real well with extract of rotted fish… FWIW, etc. tq

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – While exploring a new stretch of a local smallmouth river (Flat R., MI, near Greenville), I came upon a real shallow stretch of water. Depths ranged from inches to about two feet.  The bass were very small and spooky. The last straw came when a group of wild canoeists (canoers?) paddled through the area I was fishing.  They were loud and obviously drunk (it seems to be a local ordinance that a canoe must have at least one six pack of Busch to be considered legal).  Discouraged, I strung up and started to walk back to shore and the truck. And damn near stepped on a sucker about 14" long!  I froze while he continued to slowly move along the bottom.  Then I realized that there were about thirty or forty of them moving together.  They didn’t spook because of me but they knew enough to avoid me. Well, I hadn’t caught much in the way of fish so I figured, hell, it’s swimming and has fins so I’ll try for it.  I tossed out almost everything I had for about an hour.  Dries, streamers, nymphs, attractors, salmon eggs left over from last fall, everything.  The only action I got was when I lined one of them and he moved a little faster than usual. Now the question: Exactly what do these fish eat and what flies imitate it?  I prefer bass and trout, enjoy panfish and the occassional pike but I’ve never cast for suckers or carp.  I’m not an expert flyfisherman but I can generally put it where I want it.  What’s needed to catch those fish!? Thanks, Brian "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge" Austin Brian Austin The desperate never believe the obvious

Dear "Frustrated but Still up to the Challenge": When I began fly fishing at the late old age of 24, I apprenticed under the tutelage of a fine old fly fishing gentleman who gave me the real inside skinny on fly fishing and fly selection. The only cast you will ever need is the roll cast and the only fly that will work in such a situation is a #4 Hair Wing Royal Coachman Streamer tied on a Mustad 9575. His reasoning: that the Limerick bend and exaggerated barb of that particular Mustad hook does a superior job of holding the bait. Bait: His enticement of choice was the lowly earth worm, but in your case I would heartlily recommend thin strips of calf’s liver which have aged several weeks or months until dark green (the back of the fridge is perfect for the aging process) and amazingly pungent. Tackle: I recommend a 8-9′, 6 wt., fiberglass, Garcia "Conolon" rod with a "sturdy" action. Line: 6-7 wt. level line. Terminal Tackle: 2-3′ of 0X leader material tied to the line with a double overhand knot. You will need weight to get it to the feeding depth (bottom), so about 1/4 oz. of split shot should do it (remember to use "non-lead" split shot-for the environment you know). Method: Using 6" forceps attach the liver to the aforementioned fly, impaling it twice over the point and barb, douse with a very generous squirt of "Easy Cheez" (my favorite is the "Swiss Flavor"). Simply "Chuck & Duck", quartering upstream, directly into the feeding lane. As the fly approaches the fish, should he not notice the fly (some suckers suffer from "Squirreling Disease" which affects their sight and smell), simply yank the rod 2-3′ upward in the "Field and Stream" position and drive the fly into it’s snout (this is referred to as the "induced take"). Landing the Fish: After a spectacular fight and amazing display of water acrobatics (hauling it in), I implore you to practice "catch and release" fishing, whereby you "release" the fish as far as you can into the woods (ALWAYS be sure to bring "flushable" baby wipes for removing the sucker’s protective slime from your hands and waders after a "catch and release"). This is the option of choice for the true sportsman. Unless of course there happen to be spectators nearby who have emmigrated from country whose vast culinary heritage has bestowed up them a deeper appreciation for such a delicacy. In these cases, I salute their superior senses of taste and smell and it is my practice to reward them with a gift of the fish. Cooking Methods (Once in a while ALL true sportsman will kill a fish to eat): Refer to Schweibert’s "Trout" as many good recipes. adaptable to the tasty sucker, therein can be found. This section of the book alone is makes the purchase of this fine work a justifiable expense. Other great fish cookbooks have been written by LaFontaine and Borger and can be found in better fly shops everywhere. Tight Lines!! Todd L. McCagg "Dry Fly… Schmy Fly!"

Response:

Question:

If you fish, boat, camp, hunt or anything to do with the great

outdoors and have friends that do the same, why not start your  OWN business with little or know cost to you? < The IRS does make a distinction between a hobby business and a real business. You may be asked to demonstrate that it is a real business and not just supporting your hobby. Just because you have the legal paperwork that shows it to be a "business" doesn’t mean that the IRS has to accept it. The small tax savings will be more than offset by the cost of an audit. You are just making yourself a target.

Response:

My name in Norm Larsen and I’d like to tell you a fishing story!! A couple of week ago a friend of mine came to me and asked me if I fished, I said sure I fish, why? Well he said: " if I could show you how you can deduct your fishing, camping, boating and hunting expenses from your income tax AND earn an income would you like to here about it? That was a no-brainer  for me, so I asked him to show it to me. He proceeded to show me of the most  interesting companies I had ever seen, The companies called Champion Fishing    Co.  based out of  Texas. They have a 197 page catalog that is full of outdoor  equipment. All name brand gear like Mitchell, Fenwick, Remmington etc. By October of this year they’ll have golfing, mountain bike and organized sporting equipment too!! I thought it made since to buy my gear from myself than from someone else! They have the simplest compensation plans I have ever seen too! There’s no start-up fees, no inventory, no quota’s , no organizational  tracking and no weekend deliveries!! Everything is shipped direct to the buyer. The recreational fishing industry is a $69.4 BILLION dollar a year business with 60 million people. That doesn’t include the Pro- Fishing industry, boating, camping or hunting!! Champion Fishing Co. has been growing at a fantastic rate. The number of reps has tripled since last October. Some states only have a few reps so were talking ground floor, "once in a life time opportunity"! If you fish, boat, camp, hunt or anything to do with the great outdoors and have friends that do the same, why not start your  OWN business with little or know cost to you? If would like more info on this program, please contact me by return email with your address and I’ll send you some info. If you give me your phone number I’ll call you a week or so after I send to answer any questions you may have. Sincerely, Norm Larsen

Response:

Question:

Re: Raines’s Midlife Crisis book..I read it just after publication. was not all that impressed with most of it. However, got a copy of a tape where he reads his own stuff and enjoyed that!! Maybe it was his deep southern drawl that sold me or just hearing his stories spoken rather than on cold paper.   Heck, even Jimmy Carter refered to "threading the fly line though the ferrels" of the rod. I fish wyoming and montana during my vacations and realized that the Gallatin is in Wyoming, so he was right to small degree.   Hell, every one becomes a preacher once he has "found the light" of catch and release!!

Response:

Well, OK, so this guy Howell Raines isn’t a genius in geography.  (I have fished the Gallatin inside the Park and in Wyoming, and it ain’t bad.) It’s always easier to visualize when someone writes about rivers or areas you’ve fished, so his many stories about the rivers of Virginia or Pennsylvania did require some persistence for a Westerner to get through. However, I benefitted greatly from the book, as even though I started flyfishing back when I was 13, I’ve also had the "20 crappie on a stringer" mindset that Raines abandons.  I would think there would be countless other flyfisherman who have gone through a similar metamorphosis, and the world’s a better place for it. His descriptions of guide Dick Blaylock, who was bigger than life itself, were so vivid I felt I knew him. The way I look at it, reading this book at 40, and keeping up my flyfishing, I’ll avoid a midlife crisis…Bill Uyeki

Response:

I read this book and generally did not enjoy it, but I have a three questions that I would like answered: Raines says that the three most famous rivers of *Wyoming* are the Madison, the Gallatin, and the Yellowstone.  He also says that the Snake "becomes even better when it crosses into Idaho and becomes the Henry’sFork."  My questions are: (1) Does anyone think of the Madison, Yellowstone and Gallatin as great rivers of WYOMING?  Not to my knowledge.  Montana maybe, but not Wyoming (even though the Madison and Yellostone form in the park which is, of course, federal land within the boundaries of Wyoming).  Can anyone even find the Gallatin in Wyoming?  Its a nice river, but is not located in Wyoming! (2) Has anyone ever heard of the Wyoming Snake "becoming" the Henry’s Fork?  Give me a break! (3) Has Hal Raines ever been west of the beltway? (I think I know the answer to this one.) When I wrote and asked Raines about the first two questions (I didn’t think he’d like the third one), he sent me a snippy letter suggesting I consult some book that he (may have) read.  I could not find it in any library. Lyman Hughes Ennis, MT Dallas, TX                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

Response:

  Raines says that the three most famous rivers of *Wyoming* are the   Madison, the Gallatin, and the Yellowstone.   (1) Does anyone think of the Madison, Yellowstone and Gallatin as great   rivers of WYOMING?  Not to my knowledge.  Montana maybe, but not Wyoming   (even though the Madison and Yellostone form in the park which is, of   course, federal land within the boundaries of Wyoming).  Can anyone even   find the Gallatin in Wyoming?  Its a nice river, but is not located in   Wyoming!   (2) Has anyone ever heard of the Wyoming Snake "becoming" the Henry’s   Fork?  Give me a break! Well, technically speaking, he’s partially correct. The headwaters of the Gallatin are found in the Gallatin

Range in the NW corner of Yellowstone Park, which technically is in the state of Wyoming. Also, the South Fork of the Snake leaves Wyoming and joins the Henrys Fork in Idaho. But, for the most part, you are correct. I have read his book too, and I gather that Mr. Raines doesn’t have a clue as to life in the West. Gary W. Godden                  "They call it Paradise……I don’t know why. Denver, Colorado        - The Eagles

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I read this book and generally did not enjoy it, but I have a three Lyman Hughes Ennis, MT Dallas, TX I agree with you, Lyman. Raines spends the whole book claiming he is not elitist at the beginning of each chapter, then goes on to prove himself wrong again and again.  I came away from his book with the idea that Raines considers anyone who does not embrace his politics (in-your-face liberalism) or does not have a college degree is a raving barbarian, useful only as an amusing diversion to the intelligensia (ie him and his colleagues). All the psychobabble about the men’s movement and his so-called "Redneck Way" put me off as well. Someone out there posted that he/she enjoyed this book more than Nick Lyons’ writing; how on earth can this be?! Paul DiConza         NY Capital District Angler

    I wasn’t the poster mentioned, but I enjoyed the book for the reasons     you didn’t… Besides, in your heart you know Raines is right.     Hap —                 <<<<< OMNIA EXTARES                              

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I read this book and generally did not enjoy it, but I have a three Lyman Hughes Ennis, MT Dallas, TX

I agree with you, Lyman. Raines spends the whole book claiming he is not elitist at the beginning of each chapter, then goes on to prove himself wrong again and again.  I came away from his book with the idea that Raines considers anyone who does not embrace his politics (in-your-face liberalism) or does not have a college degree is a raving barbarian, useful only as an amusing diversion to the intelligensia (ie him and his colleagues). All the psychobabble about the men’s movement and his so-called "Redneck Way" put me off as well. Someone out there posted that he/she enjoyed this book more than Nick Lyons’ writing; how on earth can this be?! Paul DiConza     NY Capital District Angler

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Is it perhaps that fly fishing is elitist and Westerners more so than most.  If you’ve ever seen Steinberg’s New Yorker’s view of America, you can understand Raines’ pitiful ignorance of Western geography. Give the guy a break!  His book extols what’s good about flyfishing and conservation, and explains the maturation from killer to sportsman.  Where certain rivers are in Wyo/Mont are immaterial to this story.  Maybe he’s doing you a favor.  Just think of all the other Eastern elitists getting lost trying to find them. Lighten up– Crashjibe

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Re: Raines’s Midlife Crisis book..I read it just after publication. was not all that impressed with most of it. However, got a copy of a tape

I just finished this book and enjoyed it throughly.  It’s well written, good Southern story telling.  It is not so much about fishing as it is about growing up.  Some sensitive, thoughtful, 90s sort of guy stuff.  Some good stories about President’s and fishing.  George Bush was kind of pathetic. John Dobbs

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WOW!! I have read your repy to  Flyfishing  Through MIid – Fife  Crisis!!  The Fish  will not know they have  reached  Mid- Life before you put them                                                   FISHING FLY FISHING IS FOR LIFE111111111 OR LIFE IS FOR FLYFISHING111 BBlewett

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Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fly Fishing in Santa Cruz / Monterey Bay ? What type of equipment (rod/line) ? What type of flies work there and what can you catch? Where along the Santa Cruz/ Monterey area do you go? I have a 7 weight 8 1/2 ft bass fly rod with a 8 weight ST fly line. Can I use this in the Santa Cruz / Monterey area ? I have a few Whistlers red/white 3.0 can I use these flies? thanks, Bob Dea

Bob, your 7 weight is perfect for the inshore rockcod. The Blue and Olive Rockcod run arout 2 pounds (bigger when your lucky). You need a fast sinking line such as leadcore, but you can use a High D, High speed shooting head. I suggest you use about twenty feet of leadcore in a shooting head fashion. I use Amnestia running line, but anything is fine. Your leader is not important, but use 10-15 lb. leader material for added strength. I use about six feet of leader. Occaisionally you can take fish on the surface, so a floating line is nice to have along. I use flies like Blondes and Lefty’s Deceivers. The fly is not all that important, but don’t make the size too big (long). Your Whistlers will probably work just fine. Your hook size is pretty big, but it’ll work. I like 1/0 hooks for rockcod, but like bass they can handle big hooks.I fish with a two fly setup. I like to put a red or orange colored fly on the terminal end, the other fly is line-looped about 18 inches up from the end. That fly is usually a blue/white or green white Blonde. You might start off fishing the reaf off of the lighthouse at Santa Cruz. Also, you can try Soquel reaf and the nearby kelp forest. You can catch White Sea Bass during the Summer months if your persistent. Let me know if you need other info. John

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Fly Fishing in Santa Cruz / Monterey Bay ? : What type of equipment (rod/line) ? : What type of flies work there and what can you catch? : Where along the Santa Cruz/ Monterey area do you go? : I have a 7 weight 8 1/2 ft bass fly rod with a 8 weight ST fly line. : Can I use this in the Santa Cruz / Monterey area ? : I have a few Whistlers red/white 3.0 can I use these flies? : thanks, : Bob Dea Bob, I assume you’re talking about Salt Water Fly Fishing.  If so, I can’t help you, but I will be watching this space for more information on the subject. I live in Moss Landing and have Surf Fished here.  There are perch, shark, stripers, and salmon in this area along with rock fish near the jettys.  I have seen fly fishers on our beaches, but have not tried it myself.  I would like to as I am a fly fisher, I just don’t know how!

Have you tried flyfishing in Elkhorn Slough?  I wrote an article about it awhile back in response to a discussion about flyfishing in the SF Bay.   A back issue of California Flyfisher has an article about fishing for bat rays (they recommended putting squid juice on your flies) in SF bay and the shallows in the back of Elkhorn slough would seem to be ideal for flyfishing for bat rays, leopard shark, and guitarfish. Santa Cruz county also has several streams which get runs of steelhead and opening day is just around the corner. — John Fereira Pleasanton, CA

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: Fly Fishing in Santa Cruz / Monterey Bay ? : What type of equipment (rod/line) ? : What type of flies work there and what can you catch? : Where along the Santa Cruz/ Monterey area do you go? : I have a 7 weight 8 1/2 ft bass fly rod with a 8 weight ST fly line. : Can I use this in the Santa Cruz / Monterey area ? : I have a few Whistlers red/white 3.0 can I use these flies? : thanks, : Bob Dea Bob, I assume you’re talking about Salt Water Fly Fishing.  If so, I can’t help you, but I will be watching this space for more information on the subject. I live in Moss Landing and have Surf Fished here.  There are perch, shark, stripers, and salmon in this area along with rock fish near the jettys.  I have seen fly fishers on our beaches, but have not tried it myself.  I would like to as I am a fly fisher, I just don’t know how! Where are you?  can you shed any light on the Santa Cruz County freshwater fly fishing?  If you aren’t familar with Monterey County Fly Fishing, I can help!  Just let me know if you’re interested and I’ll describe some locations. Good Luck and remember… CATCH & RELEASE (in fresh water, at least)  :) —           Bob                   "Computers will reduce the amount of           Moss Landing, Ca.       paper consumed."

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Fly Fishing in Santa Cruz / Monterey Bay ? What type of equipment (rod/line) ? What type of flies work there and what can you catch? Where along the Santa Cruz/ Monterey area do you go? I have a 7 weight 8 1/2 ft bass fly rod with a 8 weight ST fly line. Can I use this in the Santa Cruz / Monterey area ? I have a few Whistlers red/white 3.0 can I use these flies? thanks, Bob Dea

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