Question:

The biggest news is no news.   Expected ROFF population is presently four, with at least one maybe.   There’s still one bed available Thurs-Sat & one Fri-Sat.   Friday night is still arbitrarily selected as the BS/drinking/cigar/tying get-together at Malinda’s in Altmar.   Sorry, no raffle. I’m planning to have an FRS radio on me when I’m not at Malinda’s, so if you’re driving up or you’re near the river, try shouting for me on FRS ch.9 if you have one yourself.   Friday, I’m likely to be around the FFO stretch at Altmar or down at the Trestle Pool; but it’s way too soon to say. I’m getting together w/ fishing buddy on Thursday for lunch to compare fly boxes in time to fill perceived shortages.   If (big IF) I can get my shit together, I want to photograph one of every fly we have between us & post the photos on the website.   http://home.att.net/~fleischman/SalmonRiver.htm My present fly inventory includes: chenille egg patterns (various colors) on #10’s sparkle chenille eggs (various colors) on #8 3906 Purple Flash nymph version on 3906 #8  (awesome last year) Altmar Sunrise, #8 Comets, pink & orange on 3906B, #8 Lazer eggs (orange, pink, chartr.) A comet variety I’ve been messing with but looks great.   It’s an unweighted comet on a 3906 w/ short marabou tail, oval tinsel body, bucktail wing (w/ a few strands of krystal flash), & collar hackle.   I’ve tied ‘em in purple, pink, & chartreuse so far & I’m expecting great things (gotta do some orange, but don’t have the bucktail).   If they work & it hasn’t been done before, I’ll give it a name; but it’s too similar to a comet to be anything but a variety thereof. I think I’m forgetting something.   I’ll have to get my fly box out & see what else is in there.  I have heard at least one early report that black wooly buggers were slayin’ ‘em.   Is there any fish that doesn’t work for? A reminder of the dates in case anyone’s interested: October 17-20, Altmar, NY Joe F.

Response:

Expected ROFF population is presently four, with at least one maybe.

Upgrade that ‘maybe’ to ‘probable’.

Response:

Question:

"Mike S. Medintz" wrote… Even though I had dry feet at the end of it, it turned out to be a looong day.

I hear that – getting soaked through and through is really uncomfortable. Reminds me of a time on Mud Run in PA.  Was downstream from the flyfishing only section, in a steep gorge.  Only way in or out was through the creek itself.  Had just cautiously approached what appeared to be a big brown in a pool, when the sky cracked and the downpour started.  It was one of those Pennsylvania downpours where you can’t see two feet in front of you.  Pelting pounding driving rain. No way out, lightening strikes all around.  Would have stayed drier if I’d gone into the creek. Afterwards, my tobacco was in a foil pouch and was fine, but the disposable butane lighter was soaked on the flint and striker, and I had nothing to dry it with. Most uncomfortable walk back to the truck and drive home.  In retrospect, should have taken off the clothes and wrung them out good – probably would have been more comfortable. Timothy Juvenal

Response:

That was super funny Tim.  I read your post and was thinking capsized boat, not rain. bruce h

Response:

Not waterproof: my rain jacket. (snip)

Hmmm, effective marketing eh? Natty

Response:

Not waterproof: Expensive Motorola handheld radios. Thank god the thing worked again once it dried-I’d have hell to explain otherwise.  Not waterproof: expensive cell phones with 100+  numbers painstakingly entered into memory.  And  no, it didn’t work again after it dried.  Maybe  because the wave that got it was saltwater …

Not to put too fine a point on it, however I would consider that a good thing. ; ^ ) Sorry honey I could not phone the cell broke! Sorry honey I waited for your call but turns out the cell got wet and I Just a thought!   M. Wm.

Response:

When will the Institute release its findings on the relative flammability of fisherpersons? — Michael Collier Citizen Fisherman

Response:

After conducting a controlled scientific experiment to determine the relative water resistance of sundry articles commonly carried by fisherpersons, the Juvenal Institute of Scientific Inquiry has reached the following conclusions: I’m sure we’ll be conducting more tests in the future.

I’ve had the questionable fortune to have conducted similar tests at work. Waterproof: cheap butane lighters, so long as they are inside a pocket. Not waterproof: Expensive Motorola handheld radios. Thank god the thing worked again once it dried-I’d have hell to explain otherwise. Waterproof: Streamlight flashlights. Not waterproof: my rain jacket. Waterproof: My boots, which saved me a long day Not waterproof: My "Water-Resistant to 100 meters" Timex Expedition watch Waterproof: A stainless steel multi-tool. Not waterproof: My smokes. Even though I had dry feet at the end of it, it turned out to be a looong day. — Mike S. Medintz please forgive the weirdness-testing new software

Response:

After conducting a controlled scientific experiment to determine the relative water resistance of sundry articles commonly carried by fisherpersons, the Juvenal Institute of Scientific Inquiry has reached the following conclusions: Not Waterproof: Cloth covered sheepskin-lined streamer wallet.  Very absorbent. Waterproof: Aluminum fly boxes by Perrine and Okuma.  Although vented, the don’t take on water very fast and they dry very quickly. Waterproof: 2 AA cell Maglite.  Maybe the best thing ever made. Not Waterproof: Blue LED emergency light.  Takes in water, which allows a small leakage current.  LED glowed faintly for hours, but it still lights up afterwards.  I was able to get a faint glow in a blue LED with as little as .01 amps at 3 volts, so it won’t run the battery down that fast, but would still be a better emergency light if it weren’t susceptible to moisture-induced current leakage, eh? Waterproof:  Pentax zoom90WR camera.  A little heavy and bulky, but fits in a cargo pants pocket, and all my pictures of herons, wet dogs, and tiny fish are safe. Waterproof:  Jeantet Saturne pipe.  Good as new. Not Waterproof: Plastic lined leather tobacco pouch.  What a mess. Not Waterproof: Remington pocketwatch.  Filled up with water, shorted out, and corroded.  You can’t get anything good for twelve bucks anymore. Waterproof:  Case XX fishing knife.  Usually I prefer carbon steel blades, but good thing these are stainless. Waterproof: Silver flask with art deco nekkid lady engraving.  Good thing, too; believe me I needed it after all that testing! I’m sure we’ll be conducting more tests in the future. Timothy Juvenal After all, fishing trips are supposed to be fun.  If they can also be informative, so much the better.             -Gary A. Borger

Response:

Question:

   I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

It depends upon how big the river is. If it’s pretty big, try to go to the opposite side of the water. If it’s small, I’d hold upstream a little and actually ask the fisherman. No spot on the river will actually be a good one for you, but some might be better than others. I’m doing most of my fishing on an urban reservoir now. The jetskiers and water skiers are becoming something of a problem. It’s illegal to operate one fast enough to create a wake within 150′ of a shore fisherman, but a number of them don’t seem to care. Maybe I should tuck my coupon book into my tackle box when I’m fishing. "No, sir, I wasn’t goofing off. I was conducting a stakeout for unsafe boating practices!" And I’m soooo sure he’d buy that. You spam my account, I nuke your ass. Simple enough.

Response:

I myself have been thinking of buying a canoe for fishing those waters where access is not very good and the waters too small for my jon boat. As far as having a canoe or kayak pass over the fish, and then waiting for them to recover, I’m sure the recovery period is a lot less than having a Bayliner with a couple of jerks on skis, or a couple of PWC (jet-skis) put your fish down. Some of the lakes I fish are so tore up from these inconsiderate morons, that the weeds are floating for several hours or days after a busy weekend. I could be fishing in a small bay and the idiots will have a whole lake to ski on, and for some reason they just have to find their way into that bay I’m fishing to scare the fish. No wonder I think of bringing the Ruger  with me when I fish. <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As somebody who has been hit, almost hit and chased from the stream by a "fiberglass hatch" of jerks, I’d like to add my two cents worth.  While being hit is not tolerable, we  may as well get used to kayaks and  canoes.  Actually, I would like to get  one or the other to fish streams with  limited shore access.  I think that fish  in a water with lots of canoe&kayak  traffic have to recover quickly after one  passes over.  They’d starve otherwise.  Greg.

Response:

And why clip off the fly?? Some of those inconsiderate jerks would look nice with a royal wolff for and earring… <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pack a .44 magnum in your vest pocket. Take your testosterone powered bass buggy somewhere else.  To pull out even a sling-shot could cost you more than you can imagine.  Clipping off the fly and "accidentally" false casting close to the ear, now that may deliver the message without making a victim of the offender. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

Response:

Couldn’t have said it better myownself.  <g PC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stay as far away as possible Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. Just got back from the AuSable in Michigan (TR to follow.)  Here’s a bit more into on the aluminum/fiberglass hatch and spooking fish.  On Saturday, the temperature was in the high 80’s and the humidex was off the dial.  Every bubba and his bubbette was rafting, kayaking, and canoeing down the AuSable right in front of the Gates Lodge.  A body couldn’t squeeze a cast in between boats.  Just downstream from Gates is the pullout point for the rentals and it siphons off about 95% of the bubba traffic (of which I became one on Sunday, but more on that later.)  On Sunday, a front had blown through bringing rain, high winds and much colder temps.  This took care of the vast majority of the canoeists (except for yours truly and his bubbette.)  By the evening, I’m back on the water in my rightful position – standing in it not floating on it, and above the pullout point, I couldn’t buy a strike.  Below the pullout there were plenty of fish.  A full 24 hrs. after the bubba hatch, those upstream were still spooked.  I spoke to the store owner this morning and he confirmed that a good bubba hatch will drive the fish down for quite a while. Maybe the occasional boat won’t shake things up much but it looks like a steady bubba hatch will put fish off for quite a while – at least 24 hrs. or more if this experience is anything to go by. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

– Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.

Response:

Maybe they could ferry my Power Bait to a hole I can’t reach from the bank.

Now that the State no longer stocks catchables in streams and rivers, you don’t still use Powerbait, do you? From what I’ve seen, it’s not very effective for streambred fish. Willi

Response:

Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Just got back from the AuSable in Michigan (TR to follow.)  Here’s a bit more into on the aluminum/fiberglass hatch and spooking fish.  On Saturday, the temperature was in the high 80’s and the humidex was off the dial.  Every bubba and his bubbette was rafting, kayaking, and canoeing down the AuSable right in front of the Gates Lodge.  A body couldn’t squeeze a cast in between boats.  Just downstream from Gates is the pullout point for the rentals and it siphons off about 95% of the bubba traffic (of which I became one on Sunday, but more on that later.)  On Sunday, a front had blown through bringing rain, high winds and much colder temps.  This took care of the vast majority of the canoeists (except for yours truly and his bubbette.)  By the evening, I’m back on the water in my rightful position – standing in it not floating on it, and above the pullout point, I couldn’t buy a strike.  Below the pullout there were plenty of fish.  A full 24 hrs. after the bubba hatch, those upstream were still spooked.  I spoke to the store owner this morning and he confirmed that a good bubba hatch will drive the fish down for quite a while. Maybe the occasional boat won’t shake things up much but it looks like a steady bubba hatch will put fish off for quite a while – at least 24 hrs. or more if this experience is anything to go by. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Stay as far away as possible – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. Just got back from the AuSable in Michigan (TR to follow.)  Here’s a bit more into on the aluminum/fiberglass hatch and spooking fish.  On Saturday, the temperature was in the high 80’s and the humidex was off the dial.  Every bubba and his bubbette was rafting, kayaking, and canoeing down the AuSable right in front of the Gates Lodge.  A body couldn’t squeeze a cast in between boats.  Just downstream from Gates is the pullout point for the rentals and it siphons off about 95% of the bubba traffic (of which I became one on Sunday, but more on that later.)  On Sunday, a front had blown through bringing rain, high winds and much colder temps.  This took care of the vast majority of the canoeists (except for yours truly and his bubbette.)  By the evening, I’m back on the water in my rightful position – standing in it not floating on it, and above the pullout point, I couldn’t buy a strike.  Below the pullout there were plenty of fish.  A full 24 hrs. after the bubba hatch, those upstream were still spooked.  I spoke to the store owner this morning and he confirmed that a good bubba hatch will drive the fish down for quite a while. Maybe the occasional boat won’t shake things up much but it looks like a steady bubba hatch will put fish off for quite a while – at least 24 hrs. or more if this experience is anything to go by. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I think if they’d just show their tits it would solve a lot or problems. — The Halfordian Golfer

Response:

 While being hit is not tolerable, we  may as well get used to kayaks and  canoes.  Actually, I would like to get  one or the other to fish streams with  limited shore access.  I think that fish  in a water with lots of canoe&kayak  traffic have to recover quickly after one  passes over.  They’d starve otherwise.

Maybe they could ferry my Power Bait to a hole I can’t reach from the bank. — TBone Walker The Halfordian Golfer

Response:

(copied from above) Afraid I can’t offer a real plan for dealing with these folks.  There doesn’t seem to be a reasonable, effective response. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

Just showing you a reasonable, EFFECTIVE response. And if you can’t find the humor in what I posted… <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Pack a .44 magnum in your vest pocket. Take your testosterone powered bass buggy somewhere else.  To pull out even a sling-shot could cost you more than you can imagine.  Clipping off the fly and "accidentally" false casting close to the ear, now that may deliver the message without making a victim of the offender. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

Response:

Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. Best thing wood be to merely take a break as your canoein’ friends pass by!! It’s NOT really all that big of a deal when you think about it! trout — I come here for the education, I stay for the amusement. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

I’m with you on this one. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. Best thing wood be to merely take a break as your canoein’ friends pass by!! It’s NOT really all that big of a deal when you think about it! trout — I come here for the education, I stay for the amusement. Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

Pack a .44 magnum in your vest pocket.

Take your testosterone powered bass buggy somewhere else.  To pull out even a sling-shot could cost you more than you can imagine.  Clipping off the fly and "accidentally" false casting close to the ear, now that may deliver the message without making a victim of the offender. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

Response:

These two rules I agree with 1,000,000,000,000 % ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

                               (snip – snip) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rule #4 – when you ruin my day as you float by,  don’t smile and say, "How’s the fishing?"  I’m likely to tell you. Rule #5 – if you’re planning a big event that’ll take over a river, publicize it at the local fishing shops – then I’ll know to stay home.

Response:

Pack a .44 magnum in your vest pocket. <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I never seem to have a problem with kayakers who are fishing.  They seem to be the more knowledgable.  Canoeist tend to be worse and the very worst are the fairly new and occasional recreation kayakers. I’ve actually had these later types paddle over from across 200 feet of river and paddle around me while asking about the fishing.  They just seemed to want to get the most out of their "wilderness" experience.  No amount of verbal abuse shakes these types, they just get their nose out of joint because you made their day less pleasant. Tubers are totally self-absorbed and could care less about anything or anyone else on the water.  Nothing you can do or say, short of causing yourself a good deal of trouble, has any influence on this crowd. What really torques me about most of these people is that the waters I fish which also supports floaters, is plenty big for rafters, boaters, and tubers to pass well away from the few wading fishermen they pass. Afraid I can’t offer a real plan for dealing with these folks.  There doesn’t seem to be a reasonable, effective response. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

Response:

I never seem to have a problem with kayakers who are fishing.  They seem to be the more knowledgable.  Canoeist tend to be worse and the very worst are the fairly new and occasional recreation kayakers. I’ve actually had these later types paddle over from across 200 feet of river and paddle around me while asking about the fishing.  They just seemed to want to get the most out of their "wilderness" experience.  No amount of verbal abuse shakes these types, they just get their nose out of joint because you made their day less pleasant. Tubers are totally self-absorbed and could care less about anything or anyone else on the water.  Nothing you can do or say, short of causing yourself a good deal of trouble, has any influence on this crowd. What really torques me about most of these people is that the waters I fish which also supports floaters, is plenty big for rafters, boaters, and tubers to pass well away from the few wading fishermen they pass. Afraid I can’t offer a real plan for dealing with these folks.  There doesn’t seem to be a reasonable, effective response. Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!!

Response:

I prefer to pass farther away (I paddle mostly where bait casters are), but if that line is going to put me in a bad current or into a power boat lane, I’ll just apologize and go by the fisherman.  As a fisherperson myself, I don’t worry too much about spooking the fish. I have observed them while fishing in very clear waters, while swimming, and while just siting around.  Unless there’s a real overabundance of fishermen, in which case the paddlers have little to do with it, they will spook, but will be back in 5 to 10 minutes.   I’ve tried to spook some wild (for many decades of generations.  No stocking done in at least 20 years, maybe more like 40) trout in a fairly heavily fished stream at one of the most popular pools (It was a late Sunday afternoon and I was the only one there, btw.).  Only way I’ve found it can be done is to stand up and skyline yourself.  Noise? No problem. Vibrations on the bank?  No problem.  Swinging your arms around?  Flailing your lure wildly?  No problem.  Let them see you standing up, even a child standing up, and they’re gone.  For as long as their tiny brains can remember danger versus food.  About 5 to 10 minutes on average.  Bream and Walleye and Pike vary.  Bream are about 5 minutes, Walleye and Pike about 15.  I have no clue on Bass.  Bass tend to be under cover and hard to watch, even in very clear water. Carp and Suckers are about 5 to 10.   Now if you’re going down a popular paddling river and there’s a canoe passing the fisherman every 10 to 20 minutes or less, yes, it’ll be bad for him.  Not earth shaking where I am as I tend to fish and paddle in MN and WI, where there are lots of places to do both or either.  The very few relatively crowded trout rivers I’ve gone on do not have paddlers (well, I did once see some tourons risking hypothermia in the evening in a rubber raft.  That water is cold* and they had no warm or dry gear along.).  If, however, I went to the Montana mountain streams to trout fish, I’d be a bit bummed to have some wild paddling action going on all over the river.   But if I were on one of the kayaking rivers out East (Natuhala? Something like that) I’d be checking for dam releases and going somewhere else when there were some, because it’d be nothing but ‘yaks and rafts and inflatables all day long.  I’d rather not fish than spend my day getting pissed off.  Then again, I tend to drive the speed limit or under and stay in the right hand lane, just to preserve my temper. Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

— rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Hi,    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Somebody else has already pointed out, we don’t "share" the water with kayakers – they have it – we leave. As somebody who has been hit, almost hit and chased from the stream by a "fiberglass hatch" of jerks, I’d like to add my two cents worth.   Rule #1 – go behind the angler – the fish are in front of him. Rule #2 – go somewhere else.  I’m not being facetious.  Anglers are constrained by a large number of factors, fishing regulations, private property, water conditions, etc.  OTOH, a kayaker can go anywhere there’s enough water to float his boat.  Don’t float prime fishing water during the best part of the fishing season.  There’s plenty of other water for you to use. Rule #3 – Learn to control your boat.  The dickhead that ran into me could’ve broken my leg. Rule #4 – when you ruin my day as you float by,  don’t smile and say, "How’s the fishing?"  I’m likely to tell you. Rule #5 – if you’re planning a big event that’ll take over a river, publicize it at the local fishing shops – then I’ll know to stay home. HTH Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Ken, Now it’s bothering me.  I know that I’ve heard or read your name before.  Do you post elsewhere? Thanks, Doug – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Doug Hall Doug,      You don’t by any chance teach at Portland State do you?      - Ken

Response:

Doug Hall

Doug,      You don’t by any chance teach at Portland State do you?      - Ken

Response:

in my part of the world,(SW Va.)there are many float fishermen. When floating and fishing should the boat give right of way to the wading fisherman? I think so…the float fisherman will cover a helluva lot more water than the one wading. It rarely happens though. I too have had jerks come way to close to me throwing them damn rackety ass buzz baits. Makes for some well placed false casts, if you know what I mean. Tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so  as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. On a large enough river, it’s best if you stay as far away as possible. Most of the time, a fisherman will be casting to a fish less than 40 feet away.   On a smaller river, where the fisherman can easily cast to either bank, it ain’t gonna matter.  Not only your shadow, but any noise or water disturbance will spook a wary fish.    Just pass by as smoothly and quietly as possible with an apologetic "I’m sorry I f*cked up your pool" expression on your face.   Although we realize we sometimes have to share a river with other uses, it’s not really sharing.   Kayakers can paddle where we fish, but we can’t fish where they paddle.   Thanks for asking. Joe F.

Response:

Michael, Lets see, if you only go down the river between the hours of 8:30 to 9:15 a.m.  and then we’ll allow you another 12 minutes in the afternoon, unless there’s a hatch going on.  Other than that, stay off our rivers, because flyfishing is the ONLY acceptable use for all rivers:).  No, but really, just the fact that you are trying to be polite and a simple "excuse me" or any normal courtesy should do.  Just like passing someone in a small hallway.  I’m sure that there will be those who feel that they have exclusive right to the river (and I’m also sure that I will hear from them) but even flyfisherman have to share the river.  Maybe we should be apologizing for blocking the whole damn river with our casting?  I think that some people should take their sports a little less serious.  It’s supposed to be about fun, and if a fish gets put down occasionally, oh well. It’s happened to me more than a few times. I got over it and so will they. Thanks for asking. Doug Hall

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,     I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

    I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

On a large enough river, it’s best if you stay as far away as possible. Most of the time, a fisherman will be casting to a fish less than 40 feet away.   On a smaller river, where the fisherman can easily cast to either bank, it ain’t gonna matter.  Not only your shadow, but any noise or water disturbance will spook a wary fish.    Just pass by as smoothly and quietly as possible with an apologetic "I’m sorry I f*cked up your pool" expression on your face.   Although we realize we sometimes have to share a river with other uses, it’s not really sharing.   Kayakers can paddle where we fish, but we can’t fish where they paddle.   Thanks for asking. Joe F.

Response:

Couldn’t have said it better myself ! ! ! ! ! <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    <    < <    <    <    <    <    <

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated. On a large enough river, it’s best if you stay as far away as possible. Most of the time, a fisherman will be casting to a fish less than 40 feet away.   On a smaller river, where the fisherman can easily cast to either bank, it ain’t gonna matter.  Not only your shadow, but any noise or water disturbance will spook a wary fish.    Just pass by as smoothly and quietly as possible with an apologetic "I’m sorry I f*cked up your pool" expression on your face.   Although we realize we sometimes have to share a river with other uses, it’s not really sharing.   Kayakers can paddle where we fish, but we can’t fish where they paddle.   Thanks for asking. Joe F.

Response:

Hi,     I was wondering what fishermen actually prefer from kayakers and canoeists.  When paddling down stream, is it better for us to move to the opposite bank (furthest from you) or is it better to pass close to you so as not to spook fish?  Any suggestions or guidelines would be greatly appreciated.

Response:

Question:

In the case of overseas contributions there would obviously be some exceptions. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stan, leaving mailing to the last week is fraught with danger IMO … too too easy to overcommit, or have some circumstance intervene, and some of us have a little distance to send the blighters .  Perhaps a fortnight or 3 weeks?  Even then there will still be drop-outs. Steve

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25___X__ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14__X____ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30__X____ 45______ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

my two cents worth Peter

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40__yes___ 20 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14___yes___ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30__yes____ 45______ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

Frank, First, may I start by saying a big thank you for organising the last swap. As a reader of only 4 months standing of this newsgroup (or any newsgroup for that matter) I have enjoyed immeasurably the opportunity to tie so many flies.  I am not a production machine and cannot tie 100+ flies at one sitting (in fact I feel rather pleased if I do about 6 in an hour).  However it has given a focus for my tying and I have really enjoyed the anticipation of receiving the work of so many fellow tiers.  I for one never want to tie another Iron Blue Dun, but if I do I know a. it will take less time than before, b. I will not have to look up the pattern, and c. I’m likely to end up with a  tidier looking fly than before. My Reply to your survey Frank: Q1.    25. See above comment. Also the fewer the numbers, the lower the drop out rate, as people are more likely to meet this commitment. Q2.    21 Days is more than enough. Even for someone who is regularly away, I can usually get to a computer to download messages, and hence sign up for the swap in this time. Q3.    45 Days. To allow postage time from all over the globe. My penny’s worth. Again thanks for the experience. — Alex Bromham

Response:

Frank, First, may I start by saying a big thank you for organising the last swap.

Thanks for the kind words Alex, you guys need to realize I’m getting more fun out of this than ya’ll are.  Your input on the survey is also appreciated, and I will keep all the replies in mind, then do it how I dang well please. (that’s my dark side coming out) <g At some point in the near future, like after the swap is completed, I will post a "lessons learned" missive for the enlightenment of all concerned. Frank Church

Response:

Hi Frank Decision as to size show be up to swiepmeister. How much work is he willing to do. A short signup time – 7 days is enough. Bigger the swap – the longer is needed. 60 days for 40 flies seems about right! Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14______ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30______ 45______ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

Frank: I had to throw my 2 cents in also. Anxiously awaiting in Wyoming Bob | 1. How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* | consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) | 25____ | 30___X__ | 35_____ | 40_____ | more than 40_____ | | 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? | 14__X____ | 21______ | 30______ | | 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to | me? | 30_____ | 45__X____ | 60______ |

Response:

Frank Wrote seeking our opinions on future fly swaps. I would go for 25 fliews to tie and 30 days to tie the flies after a week to sign up. Big Dale

Response:

Although I haven’t yet participated in a ROFF swap yet, I would like to, time dependant.  Here are my answers to the survey: I have no preference as to the number of tyers, but a good "completion time" period seems to be a ratio, rather than a fixed number – around 1.5 days per tyer, with minimums.  If there are, say 30 tyers, 45 days would seem to be about right and if say, 40 tyers, 60 days.  It would seem if international tyers are in the swap, 45 days would also seem about the minimum to allow for arrival, if all the tyers are in one country, 30 days would seem a minimum, even if just 12-18 tyers.  As to the number of sign-up days, I’m not sure why there needs to be a set period other than as proposed by the swapmeister, and so, therefore, I proxy my vote to the swapmeister.

Response:

Based on the replies I have seen so far, and trying to average out the results, it would seem that lowering the number of tyers is in order, and the time for signup dependant upon the number of participants sought.  Even at 40 tyers this year, I had to turn away several more.  Today, whilst awaiting the remaining 2 yet to arrive (and you know who you are!)   Yes, footdraggers extraordinaire.  I began addressing, labeling and otherwise trying to put things in order before the grand event, ie: sorting all these flies and trying not to get stuck. Another trip to the PO tomorrow as I still am short about 10 mailing boxes.  Because of the weather on the east coast, I was to be on the road today to Evington, VA. but am delayed leaving until Tuesday.  Which means I will be back home by late Wed. 7 March. Consequently, all parcels will be mailed not later than Thursday 8 March. Here is what I am leaning towards in subsequent swaps: Maximum 30 tyers 14 day signup, or 30 tyers, whichever comes first 45 days to deadline, as calculated from the end of signup For those that don’t make the cut in January, someone else can host a swap later in the year…be my guest! :-0 Frank Church

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30_____ 35_____ 40__X___ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14______ 21___X___ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30______ 45___X___ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

who’s doing a great job, by the way! Thanks Frank, Herman —         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Stan, leaving mailing to the last week is fraught with danger IMO … too too easy to overcommit, or have some circumstance intervene, and some of us have a little distance to send the blighters .  Perhaps a fortnight or 3 weeks?  Even then there will still be drop-outs. Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25___X__ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14_X_____ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30____X__ 45______ 60______

I found there was no reward for my diligence in getting my flies in early! Frank, if you could put in a couple for the clave and send the rest back to me, I’d apprecate it.  I know of a few steelhead I want to show my Pinl Ladies to. Peter Collin

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25__XX___ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14_XX_____ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30______ 45__XX____ 60______ 4. Should nymphomaniac female fly fishers get extra flys in the swap since

they are "just learning"? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -yes_____ no______ let’s see their offerings first___XX__ only if Stan posts photos______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14______ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30______ 45______ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____

20 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14___X___ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30__X____ 45______ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many)

Aside from concern for the swapmeister, quantity wasn’t a big deal for me. Because I’m still honing what few skills I have, being forced to tie a LOT of flies was actually a good thing for me this time.   Just for sheer time & quantites of material, however, more than 40 would be quite a burden for some, I’d expect.   30 seems like a nice number. 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up?

14.   Anybody who can’t make up their mind in two weeks is going to have a tough time getting their flies tied on time <g. 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me?

That would depend on question #1 wouldn’t it?   60 days was comfortable for me to tie 40 flies; but I was done early so I’ll say 45 days. Joe F.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30___X__ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14______ 21___X___ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30______ 45____X__ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

1.  How many people…..

The more the merrier 2.  How many days…..

Swapmeisters discretion 3.  How many days…..

Ditto. Wolfgang

Response:

1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many)

30 works for me. 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up?

14.  Hell, it took less time than that to get 40 tiers this time, didn’t it? 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me?

45 Keith

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There has been some debate and opinions offered as to how to run The 3rd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2002, so I will run a little survey here and ask that only flytiers and potential swappers weigh in, hey this ain’t a big deal, just want to run a democratic swap. 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30__X___ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14___X___ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30__X____ 45______ 60______ See, now that wasn’t hard was it?  I’ll be interested to see how this breaks down. Ye Olde Slopmeister

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25_____ 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40___X__ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14___X___ 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30__X___ 45______ 60______

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. (do *not* consider the swapmeister in your opinion, I don’t care how many) 25____Y 30_____ 35_____ 40_____ more than 40_____   2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14_____Y 21______ 30______ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30______ 45_____Y 60______

Steve

Response:

1.  How many people should be allowed to participate in the swap. 25__X__ 2. How many days should be alloted for sign-up? 14__X___ 3. After all are signed up, how many days alloted to send the flies in to me? 30__X___ I think the major problem we have is too long a lag from signup to delivery and thus the 5-6 dropouts we’ve seen in the last two swaps.  I would suggest a 30 day window for tying and mailing but suggest that nobody mail them in until the last week.  At that time we should ask again who’s in and out and we can adjust the final count before mailing in so many extras.  I don’t mind tying extras, when I’m in production mode, I tie a dozen or so extras for my fly box anyways.  I like the idea of making a set or two for handing out as a clave donation, but 5-6 is pushing it. –Stan

Response:

Question:

Vern, You may want to check out a Loomis GL4.  I am told that it is has a very similar action to the top of the line GLX (my rod), but at half the price ($250?).  I just somehow broke the tip on mine (a 5wt), and after inspection Loomis supplied a new tip section absolutely free.  I love this rod–very light, fast, with plenty of backbone.   Good shopping (Christmas is fast approaching), Pat K

Response:

Surely driving over it the same side a few more times would have allowed him to shoot round corners?!! David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My cousin an I were jump shooting ducks in some ponds down by the ocean. After we left I noticed my cousin’s old single shot 12 gauge wasn’t in the jeep.  We went back and it lay in the sand with tire tracks over the barrel. The barrel had a slight bend in it so I told my cousin to drive the jeep over it again while held it with the bent side up.  It worked and he hunted with that old gun for several years after that. Ernie Harrison Want to make tapered leaders?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 I did something similar when I was a kid, but Dad’s casting rod was made of steel and was bent something awful.I still remember the look in some of my friends faces when I told them that all Dad said was "Well did you learn anything?"

Response:

If it were me, I would contact the manufacturer. I have found most rod companies to be very sympathetic to accidents, especially if you tell them the truth about how it was broken. Usually not on a fish. Good luck.

Response:

buddies. I did something similar when I was a kid, but Dad’s casting rod was made of steel and was bent something awful.I still remember the look in some of my friends faces when I told them that all Dad said was "Well did you learn anything?"   Big Dale

Response:

<snipped Ugh, I remember doing that… Waaaaaay back when I got my first fly rod I tried to learn it all by my self and I had a Diawa Cherrywood Series rod. It was fairly light (About a 4-5 if I had to guess now) and I sure did not know how to use the thing. I ended up shutting the door on the tip and snapping it off. That was the end of that rod for me. Now I think I probably would try to re-tip it. That story also sends shudders through me as I am taking my five year old daughter out fishing once in a while and I will certainly keep that story in mind to make me more cautious! Hope it works out! Michael Era

Question:

I’m fairly new to fly fishing and was wondering what is the most popular leader. I currently use a tapered leader but the braided leaders sure look good. Any suggestions? Is there a diffrence in how they turn over???

Response:

After a while the braided ones tend to get a wee bit floppy in transferring their power but it would be a toss-up. Usulaly the tapered ones are done by then too. They get "wind knots" my euphamism for tailing loops in my casting technique. They come out of the braided leaders more easily.   — Free Lake Fly Fishing On-Line Magazine Lake Fly Fishing CD’s, Videos, Books http://www.rural.escape.ca/angling_north/fishing/organz.htm

Response:

I’m fairly new to fly fishing and was wondering what is the most popular leader. I currently use a tapered leader but the braided leaders sure look good. Any suggestions? Is there a diffrence in how they turn over???

I used to use braided leaders, and like a lot of folks, stopped because they picked up water and spooked fish with spray. Recently, I’ve started using Airflo poly leaders.  Much better turnover than tapered nylon, even better than braided, and no spray problem. They’re still relatively hard to find…check out http://www.ezflyfish.com/ezflyfish/airfloleaders.html Michael — www.geocities.com/yosemite/falls/3363 Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

Question:

It is a big state, what area is she in? — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Want to give a friend of mine fly fishing lessons for her birthday She lives in California but would probably also travel out of state Any suggestions Thanks for the help Spot247

Response:

Want to give a friend of mine fly fishing lessons for her birthday She lives in California but would probably also travel out of state Any suggestions Thanks for the help Spot247

Take a look at http://www.flyline.com/ MichaelSmith

Response:

Question:

Please keep the politically correct crap in alt.idiocy anc not in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.  Thanks

We couldn’t agree more! Sincerely, Noranda Mining Company Canada "Coming Soon to a Wilderness Area Near You!"

Response:

Please keep the politically correct crap in alt.idiocy anc not in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.  Thanks

Response:

Pc idiocy? what pc idiocy? edwin

Response:

Question:

When in doubt, go with the fun stuff. Buy the fishing outfit. Chances are you’ll use it more and longer. Mike T. — WebRunner Running Page — Southeast USA Club & Race Listings 200+ listings. Advertise your race. Club Home Pages. http://www.catalog.com/webrun/running/running.html

Response:

Neither–Get yourself a good set of Golf clubs! Everone has taken up flyfishing, and the courses are almost empty. For exercise, carry your own clubs and jog,that"ll keep that ticker pumpin.There are beautiful courses everywhere,except Idaho.The chemists have destroyed the good grass in that state, with all those potato experiments. This is a joke–Don’t want to piss off any Idaho golfers.

Response:

I have both.  Believe me, I can cast a lot farther with a fly rod.

Response:

My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. Where to spend my money?

Two answers:         When you are older and your lower body is a cantidate for complete skeleton replacement from marathoning your hips, ankles, and knees into mush. You will really appreciate the first-class fly rig. A heart rate monitor will just be junk by then.         Flip a coin. If you dislike the outcome you’ll know you’ve been playing a game with yourself.                 Bob

Response:

I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine with a real fly fishing outfit. Where to spend my money? Steve, run out and buy yourself a fly fishing outfit… David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

Steve, Its apparant your training is suffering from a lack of obsession. I refer you to Calvin and Hobbes from about two weeks ago.  T Training with a monitor lets you micro  analyze your pperformance with the goal being to satisy such standards as your training log and other people who wear monitors. Also there’s a coolness factor related to who might be impressed by the purchases.  Fish or friends?   I have trained with a monitor for a year.  Has it helped?  Got me. It is a diversion and something to do on those long runs. Steve Rogers When the going gets tough, blah, blah, blah

Response:

[deleted] : My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I : have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at : rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. Neither…buy a pair of Reabok Pumps and go fishing…then, if you fall in, your feet will float up and someone will be able to spot you. Tim Walker

Response:

You ask whether to buy a heart rate monitor or a fly fishing outfit? Definitely the flyfishing outfit.  Enjoying it will lower your heart rate

Just don’t start flyfishing in the midst of the heavy hatches…you may end it all holding your breath for that monster to suck  in YOUR fly instead of the natural inches from it. Steve D.

Response:

I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine with a real fly fishing outfit. Where to spend my money?

Look to the future and buy the fly rod.  I have a sister and two brothers who ran marathons and they are now virtually crippled (not  really, but they get sore knees).  I have flyfished instead for 25 years and feel as good as ever. Watch your backcast on that elitist stuff. Believe it or not, this can be the cheapest way to fish other than zebco and hand dug bait. I fished for years with a $10 St.croix and $2 reel and flies tied mostly from free knitting samples.   Now that I have some disposable income I do my best to keep a few local fly shops in business, but fancy tackle adds little to the value of the experience of getting a mile or ten away from the crowds and finding some wild trout, then tricking them, admiring their brilliant beauty, then releasing or cooking them. I think the heartrate monitor is just going to cause you excess worry about the fine tuning of your body, but does this really relax you?    What does it add to your life?   How does it relate to your future personna as geezer? If you start flyfishing regularly now, you’ll have a great recreational life that will last as long as you will.  Youngsters will much rather hear your fishing stories than running stories.  By flyfishing you can do your part to honor your elders while preparing youself to become a great one. This youth stuff is just a passing trend; give up holding onto it and go fishing!  You have  little chance of winning any major marathons but a virtual guarantee of mastering our fine sport, since you have email. You can get that same sense of well-being and accomplishment by hiking half that far and fishing a day or two.  If you really crave that burn, drive over to the east side of the sierra in late July or August this year and hike straight up to 11,000 ft and fish for Goldens. If you still aren’t tired, carry my pack too. Once the runoff settles down this will be a great year here in California. Get the fly rod. mark vinsel Visit my gallery: http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.HTML

Response:

: [deleted] : : My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I : : have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at : : rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. : Neither…buy a pair of Reabok Pumps and go fishing…then, if you : fall in, your feet will float up and someone will be able to spot you. And if the shoes don’t fit, Reebok Pumps make dandy strike indicators. Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

Response:

Get both. Many new runners pack up when they find that it takes discipline and effort to get fit. There are many HRMs lying dormant in people homes unused. I’ve just bought one for 10 pounds second hand. Look in your local paper I’m sure you’ll find one. Simon — Simon Walsh    

Response:

: Wierd title?  So is my dilemma: : I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year : (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland : Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some : backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine : with a real fly fishing outfit. : My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I : have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at : rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. : Where to spend my money? : Steve My vote is for the flyfishing gear.  As a bonus I offer you my "cheap" heart rate monitor:   If you’re breathing, its beating.  If you’re not breathing, it’s probably stopped (or will shortly). (sippinElkMountainAmberAleandrootinfortheBarracudainLongBeachCalifornia wheretheearthmovesundermyfeet)

Response:

: Neither–Get yourself a good set of Golf clubs! Everone has taken up : flyfishing, and the courses are almost empty. For exercise, carry your : own clubs and jog,that"ll keep that ticker pumpin.There are beautiful : courses everywhere,except Idaho.The chemists have destroyed the good : grass in that state, with all those potato experiments. : This is a joke–Don’t want to piss off any Idaho golfers. Hey, hey, hey!!!  Whatchit buddy.  This state still has the fighting words law.  That means I can bust you in the chops for saying such things and all the cops will do is make fun of your glass jaw or my right hook! Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

Response:

Wierd title?  So is my dilemma: I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine with a real fly fishing outfit. My birthday is in a couple of days and I expect to get some money.  I have decided to give due regard to the advice from the good folks at rec.running and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. Where to spend my money? Steve

Response:

I am a novice marathoner who fishes.  I’ve run one marathon this year (Napa Valley) and would like to improve my time for the Portland Marathon by using a heart rate monitor.  I also enjoy fishing.  I have some backpacking fly equipment but I would like to let my elitest-self shine with a real fly fishing outfit. Where to spend my money?

Steve, run out and buy yourself a fly fishing outfit… David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

Response:

If you often overtrain, get the HRM.  If you need more protein, get the fishing equipment.  Otherwise, you’ll just have to decide for yourself. — Ray Charbonneau    | MIT Library Systems| Everyone is entitled to my opinion.  *Disclaimer? Why?*|

Response:

Buy the fly fishing gear and go have fun.  You’ll be more relaxed for your training and will in turn run farther and faster.  Besides, I’ve not yet met a marathon runner who has trained with a heart rate monitor, so I’m sure you can train hard enough to improve your time without one.   Buy the heart rate monitor next year, and don’t go out too fast in Portland, as the crowds during the first part of the race might make you go faster than you should. Best fishes, Dan

Response:

You ask whether to buy a heart rate monitor or a fly fishing outfit? Definitely the flyfishing outfit.  Enjoying it will lower your heart rate so low you won’t have to worry about a heart rate monitor…..

Response:

Question:

| PS.  If anyone can find a source on the AR/"A River" connection, please post. | It might have been a couple of years ago in "Trout" but I don’t keep my old | issues. | | There was a detailed description in, I think, the (London) Sunday Times, | if your library has copies of that paper.   | | I got the correct publishing town, wrong paper.  Correct reference for a | nice article by David Profumo (presumably the famous David Profumo?) is | the (London) Weekend Telegraph, February 13, 93, Outdoors section, page III. | | Denbigh How do you mean the famous David Profumo? This one is the son of John, the Minister of war who resigned in the great scamndal of 1963, and the author of two novels (the first good the second reportedly very pretentious). He also edited a couple of anthologies of fishing literature, one called "the magic wheel". — Religious Affairs Correspondent | phone +44-71-253-1222 xt 1682 | London, England                 | I’m not paid to have opinions |

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | etc. I didn’t see the movie, so I can’t claim to be an expert, but the info I had was that AR was, and is, really down on fly fishing and especially barbless C&R.  BTW, I didn’t avoid the movie because of this, but rather because I’d hate to see the world’s best book ruined by a Redfordesque movie (cf. "The Natural" and "Milagro Beanfield Wars").  Nope, when I annually read "A River" I won’t have visions, however spectacular, of someone else’s interpretation of the book. Brent PS.  If anyone can find a source on the AR/"A River" connection, please post. It might have been a couple of years ago in "Trout" but I don’t keep my old issues.

There was a detailed description in, I think, the (London) Sunday Times, if your library has copies of that paper.  I’ll see if I can still find a reference somehow, and post if I do.  There is a book on the making of the film, but it isn’t helpful on this. I recommend that you see the film – it reinforced my feelings for the book, and didn’t give any inconsistent interpretations.  I read the book again after seeing the film, and still loved the book.  Redford really did very well. Denbigh

Response:

Well, somebody killed the big trout one of the guys caught toward the end of the movie. Must’ve come from a meat market. (I’ve only seen the movie three times–with no sound, though–while flying cross country :- ) There’s a far-from-realistic attempt at a jumping trout: this huge trout corpse is projected straight out from beneath the water … no kicking or twisting … dead as a door knocker. Why didn’t they just get one (or a few … might need a backup) from a hatchery/fish farm and do it up right? Either way the fish ends up on someone’s table. —

The story takes place around Missoula and the film shot around Bozeman. The word around Missoula is that an unnamed taxidermist in the Bitteroot Valley made a large rainbow model to be used in the movie. If this is true, than that slab you’re referring to may have been just that; a slab. Maybe someday we’ll all go to Universal studios and this trout in the water next to the Jaws model! David Prager                                    (W)206-487-5837 Motorola                                        (H)206-485-4397 Mobile Data Division 19807 Northcreek Parkway                

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | etc. I didn’t see the movie, so I can’t claim to be an expert, but the info I had was that AR was, and is, really down on fly fishing and especially barbless C&R.  BTW, I didn’t avoid the movie because of this, but rather because I’d hate to see the world’s best book ruined by a Redfordesque movie (cf. "The Natural" and "Milagro Beanfield Wars").  Nope, when I annually read "A River" I won’t have visions, however spectacular, of someone else’s interpretation of the book. Brent PS.  If anyone can find a source on the AR/"A River" connection, please post. It might have been a couple of years ago in "Trout" but I don’t keep my old issues. There was a detailed description in, I think, the (London) Sunday Times, if your library has copies of that paper.  I’ll see if I can still find a reference somehow, and post if I do.  There is a book on the making of the film, but it isn’t helpful on this. I recommend that you see the film – it reinforced my feelings for the book, and didn’t give any inconsistent interpretations.  I read the book again after seeing the film, and still loved the book.  Redford really did very well.

Before we start getting too down on Redford I heard that a large portion of the proceeds from the movie went towards a restoration project for a river in Montana.  Anyone that has concern for maintaining our trout streams, and backs it up with cash, is OK in my book. — John Fereira

Response:

Some technical things in the movie were done beautifully.  Powell made bamboo shaped graphite rods to look like the originals,  and even matched all of the rod decorations, windings, etc., and the special lines that would show up on film were spectacular.  

I’ve heard about these rods elsewhere and actually asked about them here once before.  I’ve seen articles for them in fly fishing magazine so apparently they are for sale to the general public.  Has anyone ever tried one?  Powell is actually reasonably close to me.  If I get a chance, I’m going to try to stop by there manufacturing facility on my next trip to the Tahoe area.  I’ve heard nothing but good about the Powell rods. — John Fereira

Response:

The movie is beautiful and no fish are eaten during the film.  Redford did do a lot of work I think to keep the animal rights people happy.  It is a wonderfully filmed movie, great scenery and alot of fly fishing.  Enjoy.

Response:

… Powell made bamboo shaped graphite rods … … apparently they are for sale to the general public …

Shops that carry Powell rods seem to have the bamboo-like versions in stock also.  I last touched one at the HomeWaters Fly Shop in Eugene Oregon. The appearance is impressive, but I didn’t bother to cast it outside.  Seemed a bit heavy (expected), and certainly slower action than a SAGE III (no surprise). BTW – My brother Tim lucked out while working for the Forest Service in Bozeman last year – he was working at the same site where the fishing scenes were filmed.   I forget all the details he mentioned, but I do recall him saying that the actors wore waders underneath their regular clothes. Thomas Gilg

Response:

Before we start getting too down on Redford I heard that a large portion of the proceeds from the movie went towards a restoration project for a river in Montana.

In fact, I think the proceeds were directed toward restoration of the Big Blackfoot River itself, which was the river the Mclean’s considered their "family river" in the story… Fred —         Fred L. Templin

Response:

Practice selective harvest, don’t eat the breeders.

How do you define "breeder?" — -Wayne Trzyna

Response:

Redford had the Humane Society with him at all times when filming fishing scenes, and they seem to have made an excessive effort to avoid "harming" any fish. The main fighting scenes were done with a load of rocks in a plastic bottle tied to the end of the line.  The jumping fish was mechanical.  The "dead fish" in the creel were made of plaster.  When they had a fish on the line for a landing, they had leaders through their mouths, so that no hooks were applied.  Once landed, they were put into highly aerated tanks for recovery.

Ironic, isn’t it, that they went to all this trouble to protect the few trout involved in the making of a film which has probably encouraged thousands of poeple to take up the sport of fishing.  I doubt those thousands are fishing for mechanical fish and or plastic bottles filled with rocks! Of course, the real tradgedy of the film is that thousands of yuppies are buying up land in Montana and building vacation homes.  There goes the habitat.  There goes the neighborhood. — -Wayne Trzyna

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | | "A River Runs Through It" will be available on videocassette nationwide on | Wednesday May 19. | I have heard from friends who saw it in the theatre that you | never see anyone actually eating a fish in the movie and there is | a disclaimer at the end that states fish were not killed in the | making of the film. | I think Robert Redford went a bit overboard being sensitive to | the animal rightists but I’ll rent it anyways. The cinematography | is supposed to be quite beautiful. Well, somebody killed the big trout one of the guys caught toward the end of the movie. Must’ve come from a meat market. (I’ve only seen the movie three times–with no sound, though–while flying cross country :- ) There’s a far-from-realistic attempt at a jumping trout: this huge trout corpse is projected straight out from beneath the water … no kicking or twisting … dead as a door knocker. Why didn’t they just get one (or a few … might need a backup) from a hatchery/fish farm and do it up right? Either way the fish ends up on someone’s table. Mark Myers                               | phone : 703 758-2725

Redford had the Humane Society with him at all times when filming fishing scenes, and they seem to have made an excessive effort to avoid "harming" any fish. The main fighting scenes were done with a load of rocks in a plastic bottle tied to the end of the line.  The jumping fish was mechanical.  The "dead fish" in the creel were made of plaster.  When they had a fish on the line for a landing, they had leaders through their mouths, so that no hooks were applied.  Once landed, they were put into highly aerated tanks for recovery. It is unclear to me whether the humane society were there by demand or at Redford’s request. Some technical things in the movie were done beautifully.  Powell made bamboo shaped graphite rods to look like the originals,  and even matched all of the rod decorations, windings, etc., and the special lines that would show up on film were spectacular.  The filming of some of the casts, particularly the one long roll cast across the Gallatin, certainly deserved the Oscar that was won for cinematography. I’m probably biased by my love for the local rivers and scenery that became such an important part of the film, but I highly recommend it, particularly for those who fly fish or for those who wonder why others fly fish. Meanwhile, the Mother’s Day caddis hatch was better this year on the Yellowstone River than I’ve ever seen.  It is intimidating to see a large river with trout rising everywhere.  I had one of the best two dry fly fishing evenings that I have ever had (I once caught the peak of the stone- fly hatch on the Gardner).  Heavy rains have screwed up our rivers for the last couple of weeks, and the Gallatin is expected to flood tonight. The early runoff means that the rivers should be in good shape for the stonefly hatch this year. Denbigh

Response:

Ironic, isn’t it, that they went to all this trouble to protect the few trout involved in the making of a film which has probably encouraged thousands of poeple to take up the sport of fishing.  I doubt those thousands are fishing for mechanical fish and or plastic bottles filled with rocks! Of course, the real tradgedy of the film is that thousands of yuppies are buying up land in Montana and building vacation homes.  There goes the habitat.  There goes the neighborhood. -Wayne Trzyna

I think Wayne has  a good point and I think you only need to look as far back as the 80’s to see the damage done by greed and yuppies.   We have seen the damage from overdevelopment and marketing of our natural resources and yet the developers keep on coming to the "new" sites.  They will infiltrate your vast meadows and peaceful land because people have nowhere else to go.  They are also driven by the fact that you can buy some peaceful property, build on it, save taxes on your vacation home, and sell it for a decent profit in the future.  I think this will continue in the future because it is those people who made the money in the 80’s that can afford such moves to the "wilderness." I think there is little optimism for preserving our natural resources when every lake near a major urban area becomes privatized or rotten with stench from powerboaters and water rats.   Conservation is not pushed and is not observed by the mainstream, I just thank God that there are some out there who are champions for nature.  Without them, we would end up like Brazil. Kevin "lost in Illinois"

Response:

I would have to agree that the movie is one of the better book-to-screen adaptations I have seen. Sure, it’s a bit sloppy on the sentimentality in parts were the book was just poetical, but…well, it’s a pretty good film. I have re-read the book twice since seeing the film with no ill effects. BlackBearBrownBear        San Francisco, California Typesetting, Writing, Design, & Computer Graphics

Response:

Actually, his didn’t happen because of the film; in fact, it’s been going on at least 10 or 15 years.  And I wouldn’t consider some of those millionaire estates as the vacation spots of a simple yuppy (Whatever the heck a yuppy is).  Land prices on the Rt 93 corridor north and south of Missoula are phenomenal compared to those of a huge urban center such as Denver… how do local people afford it?

I can tell you from personal experience that they simply don’t do it. You move away for however long it takes to go back home and start over.                                         an expatriate David Prager                                    (W)206-487-5837 Motorola                                        (H)206-485-4397 Mobile Data Division 19807 Northcreek Parkway                

Response:

PS.  If anyone can find a source on the AR/"A River" connection, please post. It might have been a couple of years ago in "Trout" but I don’t keep my old issues. There was a detailed description in, I think, the (London) Sunday Times, if your library has copies of that paper.  

I got the correct publishing town, wrong paper.  Correct reference for a nice article by David Profumo (presumably the famous David Profumo?) is the (London) Weekend Telegraph, February 13, 93, Outdoors section, page III. Denbigh

Response:

                                        …collections of 20 to 40 arce lots, fortified with buck or barbed wire fences, posted, and each with a tinker-toy factory log cabin in the center.

You’ve just seen the future – and it sucks. And does anyone think these people are really concerned with protecting the river and it’s surrounds, or just their petty little chunk? The practice of "fencing out" (vs "fencing in") is rapidly destroying what was once the primary allure of the west- wide open spaces. Even fence haters have been forced to close off their property by litigation paranoia – it’s just too risky from a liability standpoint to let people roam freely over your property. I was asked recently to leave a farm pond I’ve been fishing off an on for over 30 years. The owner was pressured by his insurance carrier into closing it off. We need major reform in the fencing laws. Barbred wire is for keeping cattle in – not for keeping people out.

Response:

Wayne Trzyna writes: Of course, the real tradgedy of the film is that thousands of yuppies are buying up land in Montana and building vacation homes.  There goes the habitat.  There goes the neighborhood.

Actually, his didn’t happen because of the film; in fact, it’s been going on at least 10 or 15 years.  And I wouldn’t consider some of those millionaire estates as the vacation spots of a simple yuppy (Whatever the heck a yuppy is).  Land prices on the Rt 93 corridor north and south of Missoula are phenomenal compared to those of a huge urban center such as Denver… how do local people afford it?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Redford had the Humane Society with him at all times when filming fishing scenes, and they seem to have made an excessive effort to avoid "harming" any fish. The main fighting scenes were done with a load of rocks in a plastic bottle tied to the end of the line.  The jumping fish was mechanical.  The "dead fish" in the creel were made of plaster.  When they had a fish on the line for a landing, they had leaders through their mouths, so that no hooks were applied.  Once landed, they were put into highly aerated tanks for recovery. Ironic, isn’t it, that they went to all this trouble to protect the few trout involved in the making of a film which has probably encouraged thousands of poeple to take up the sport of fishing.  I doubt those thousands are fishing for mechanical fish and or plastic bottles filled with rocks! Of course, the real tradgedy of the film is that thousands of yuppies are buying up land in Montana and building vacation homes.  There goes the habitat.  There goes the neighborhood. -Wayne Trzyna

Sorry, I see it differently.  I believe that the more people who learn to fly fish only increases the pool of people who will join the battle to protect the waters and land through which they flow.  I don’t share your cynicism.  Perhaps I’m just an optimist (a naive cynic).  As for houses, I don’t automatically think it is a bad idea.  Given the pervasive "not in my backyard" mentality, perhaps people will pay attention to what happens to our dwindling frontiers.  If people had vacation homes near Yucca Mtn, do you think that there would be proposals for nuclear storage there?  I doubt it.  I know if I bought a house in Montana (whether it is my primary residence or a vacation home) I sure as hell would pay more attention to planning boards and zoning restrictions that would adversely affect the area near my home.  I would work to protect and improve the quality of the area that made it such a beautiful movie to watch. I am not saying that all development is good and all new fishers are going to protect trout quality water but I think your assertions are a tad on the pessimistic side     + Steve — Steve Hammond                            * ^ // * /     Scientific Computing Division             /* /  _][     National Center for Atmospheric Research, Boulder, CO     ____

Response:

Of course, the real tradgedy of the film is that thousands of yuppies are buying up land in Montana and building vacation homes.  There goes the habitat.  There goes the neighborhood.

I returned to the Big Hole region of Montana last year and was horrified at the number of new vacation homes built in the last 4 years.  Ditto several other areas in Montana. Trying to reach several creeks I knew of, I ran into various locked gates and "keep out" signs.   Many places I went, collections of 20 to 40 arce lots, fortified with buck or barbed wire fences, posted, and each with a tinker-toy factory log cabin in the center.   In many cases, negotiating the maze of ownership to reach public land was difficult. To make matters worse, some seek to "improve" their holdings.  Though not as bad in Montana, here in Oregon, people aren’t content to have just an immaculate house, but they have to sanitize the surrounding environment, plant lawns that run into the riverside, etc.  The McKenzie and North Santiam Rivers are good examples – float by house after house, looking at massive living room windows, often catching the glare of landowners who feel like you’re invading their world. Thomas Gilg

Response:

"A River Runs Through It" will be available on videocassette nationwide on Wednesday May 19. A representative from Blockbuster Video said that it will be available for rental or purchase when the outlets open for business on Wednesday May 19. The purchase price will start at somewhere close to $100.00.  They explained that after 4 to 6 months, the retail purchase price will drop to a standard $29.95 or less.   Frank

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "A River Runs Through It" will be available on videocassette nationwide on Wednesday May 19. I have heard from friends who saw it in the theatre that you never see anyone actually eating a fish in the movie and there is a disclaimer at the end that states fish were not killed in the making of the film. I think Robert Redford went a bit overboard being sensitive to the animal rightists but I’ll rent it anyways. The cinematography is supposed to be quite beautiful. — /  Academic Computing Services      / VOICE:    (403)220-7937 /  University of Calgary            / MESSAGE:  (403)220-6201 /  Calgary, Alberta CANADA  T2N 1N4 / FAX:      (403)282-9199

It is likely that the sensitivity was not to animal rights types but to fly fisherfolk, many of whom practice C&R, not in deference to animal rights but to resource conservation.   Practice selective harvest, don’t eat the breeders. Remember:  Fishing is NOT a matter of life and death.               It is much more important than that! Bryan Call (719)590-5772  |All opinions expressed here are mine & mine alone. Hewlett-Packard Co.       |  But then, I’ve never let that stop me before.     P.O. BOX 2197             |    Many men go fishing all their lives without Colorado Springs, Co 80901|    knowing that it is not fish they are after.

Response:

| | "A River Runs Through It" will be available on videocassette nationwide on | Wednesday May 19. | | I have heard from friends who saw it in the theatre that you | never see anyone actually eating a fish in the movie and there is | a disclaimer at the end that states fish were not killed in the | making of the film. | | I think Robert Redford went a bit overboard being sensitive to | the animal rightists but I’ll rent it anyways. The cinematography | is supposed to be quite beautiful. | | — | /  Academic Computing Services      / VOICE:    (403)220-7937 | /  University of Calgary            / MESSAGE:  (403)220-6201 | /  Calgary, Alberta CANADA  T2N 1N4 / FAX:      (403)282-9199 Well, somebody killed the big trout one of the guys caught toward the end of the movie. Must’ve come from a meat market. (I’ve only seen the movie three times–with no sound, though–while flying cross country :- ) There’s a far-from-realistic attempt at a jumping trout: this huge trout corpse is projected straight out from beneath the water … no kicking or twisting … dead as a door knocker. Why didn’t they just get one (or a few … might need a backup) from a hatchery/fish farm and do it up right? Either way the fish ends up on someone’s table. — Mark Myers                               | phone : 703 758-2725 Visix Software Inc.                   | fax   : 703 758 0233 Reston, VA  22091                    |

Response:

Well, somebody killed the big trout one of the guys caught toward

the end of the movie. Must’ve come from a meat market. (I’ve only seen the movie three times–with no sound, though–while flying cross country :- ) There’s a

far-from-realistic attempt at a jumping trout: this huge trout corpse is projected straight

out from beneath the water … no kicking or twisting … dead as a door knocker. Why

didn’t they just get one (or a few … might need a backup) from a hatchery/fish farm and do

it up right? Either way the fish ends up on someone’s table.

Someone might correct me on this, but I think I heard/read that they used a mechanical trout for the shots where they wanted a moving fish. They must have done a good job if they could deceive us fishermen?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | | "A River Runs Through It" will be available on videocassette nationwide on | Wednesday May 19. | | I have heard from friends who saw it in the theatre that you | never see anyone actually eating a fish in the movie and there is | a disclaimer at the end that states fish were not killed in the | making of the film. | | I think Robert Redford went a bit overboard being sensitive to | the animal rightists but I’ll rent it anyways. The cinematography | is supposed to be quite beautiful. | Well, somebody killed the big trout one of the guys caught toward the end of the movie. Must’ve come from a meat market. (I’ve only seen the movie three times–with no sound, though–while flying cross country :- ) There’s a far-from-realistic attempt at a jumping trout: this huge trout corpse is projected straight out from beneath the water … no kicking or twisting … dead as a door knocker. Why didn’t they just get one (or a few … might need a backup) from a hatchery/fish farm and do it up right? Either way the fish ends up on someone’s table. —

Mark, I’m pretty sure that if this trout didn’t look alive, it was because it never was.  There was some discussion of the making of this movie in a TU publication I believe.  The AR folks (of which Redfield may be one) didn’t want any live fish in the movie, so there they made a mechanical one ala "Jaws" and faked it.   I didn’t see the movie, so I can’t claim to be an expert, but the info I had was that AR was, and is, really down on fly fishing and especially barbless C&R.  BTW, I didn’t avoid the movie because of this, but rather because I’d hate to see the world’s best book ruined by a Redfordesque movie (cf. "The Natural" and "Milagro Beanfield Wars").  Nope, when I annually read "A River" I won’t have visions, however spectacular, of someone else’s interpretation of the book. Brent PS.  If anyone can find a source on the AR/"A River" connection, please post. It might have been a couple of years ago in "Trout" but I don’t keep my old issues. — Brent J. Danielson                                  Iowa State University                                                       Ames, IA 50011-3221                                                              515-294-5248

Response: