Question:

Um, yes, …

SPAM ! — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Um, yes, I’m new to FF and I’m trying to find an online site that makes it really EASY to buy fly fishing gear. You know, really, really E-Z. Any ideas? –Steve

Response:

After a thorough and exhaustive search of my backyard and Alta Vista.Com, I came up with this: One dead bird One half of a semi-live earth worm Some fresh dog shit (first step find) and this:  www.e-zfly.com/ Opie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Um, yes, I’m new to FF and I’m trying to find an online site that makes it really EASY to buy fly fishing gear. You know, really, really E-Z. Any ideas? –Steve

Response:

Um, yes, I’m new to FF and I’m trying to find an online site that makes it really EASY to buy fly fishing gear. You know, really, really E-Z. Any ideas?

What are ya – an idjit? I typed "EZ" into AlteredVister and got five million hits, and the 248,094th one led me right to the source! You *must* be an idjit! Sheesh! Send an email to Louie’s grand daughter. I hear she’s a wizard with search engines… /daytripper (And stop spamming the group ;^)

Response:

Send an email to Louie’s grand daughter. I hear she’s a wizard with search engines… /daytripper (And stop spamming the group ;^)

sniff….sniff…..sniff…..nope, thet ain’t no spam.  Thet ther is a troll!

Response:

you will find what you want within the 1st 5 hits every time<g.

Unless, of course, those *are* your key words<g. — Charlie…

Response:

What are ya – an idjit? I typed "EZ" into AlteredVister and got five million hits, and the 248,094th one led me right to the source! You *must* be an idjit! Sheesh!

The key to an effective web search is not as much what you *include* in the search as what you *exclude*. In HotBot, for example, if you exclude the keywords "moist", "teen", "anal" and "eBay" you will find what you want within the 1st 5 hits every time<g. — Charlie…

Response:

you will find what you want within the 1st 5 hits every time<g. Unless, of course, those *are* your key words<g. — Charlie…

        you keep raising the bar, chocolat!  fabulous work. wayno, recovering from hysteria

Response:

In HotBot, for example, if you exclude the keywords "moist", "teen", "anal" and "eBay" you will find what you want within the 1st 5 hits every time<g.

Regards, Jeff

Response:

In HotBot, for example, if you exclude the keywords "moist", "teen", "anal" and "eBay" you will find what you want within the 1st 5 hits every time<g.

I INCLUDE ONLY those keywords, and I find what I’m looking for 4 hits out of 5! Regards, Jeff

Response:

Steve:  Try www.TroutWorld.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Um, yes, I’m new to FF and I’m trying to find an online site that makes it really EASY to buy fly fishing gear. You know, really, really E-Z. Any ideas? –Steve

Response:

Whiff! Steeeerike One! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Steve:  Try www.TroutWorld.com Um, yes, I’m new to FF and I’m trying to find an online site that makes it really EASY to buy fly fishing gear. You know, really, really E-Z. Any ideas? –Steve

Response:

Question:

Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

My wife Kate, is currently making one for my son Brandon.  She got a pattern from the sewing shop, and is using my Colombia as an inspiration for modifications to the pattern (like mesh and grommet on the pockets, etc.). She is also using Supplex instead of the cotton material the pattern spec’d.  I thought it would be a better idea for drying. HTH, Brian

Response:

They don’t scream as loud as flies do. Hm…..sort of makes me wonder about the ethics of amputating limbs from captive trees.  I don’t suppose anyone out there has an opinion on this do they?

– Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                          Tom McGuane

Response:

Willi, I have designed several fly fishing vests/shirts (not commercially, but for myself). I did the "engineering", my poor wife the sewing. One tip I have is to carefully consider how the load will be carried and distributed after the pockets are filled. If there is too much weight in the pockets in the front, the vest pulls down in front around your neck…very uncomfortable.

I have struggled for years to find a vest I liked. Bob’s point about a loaded vest digging into the back of your neck is quite true. Why do the makers invariably cut the necks of vests so high? Why do they put collars on the bloody things? Vest are supposed to be load carrying. It’s what they’re for. Moreover, the front bottom pockets are where most people want to carry stuff. It seems that very few vest manufacturers have grasped this fundamental design requirement. Some years ago I bought a Columbia Henry’s Fork vest (remember those bloody irritating adverts about ‘Ma’ knowing best and kicking arse if things weren’t just right, etc.). It cost a fortune having it shipped from the US, paying VAT and duty, etc. That bastard always left me with a sore, stiff neck. The Velcro on the pocket flaps matched nicely when the vest was hanging flat and empty in the closet, but didn’t when anything even slightly fat was put into the pockets. The following are my tips to any would be vest designer/maker, based on years of disappointment. 1. Go for fewer, better designed pockets, especially the big ones on the front bottom. Resist the temptation to include as many pockets as possible. More is NOT better! 2. Cut the neck low. 3. Make sure the pocket closures are designed for FILLED pockets. 4. Choose a material that is light, tough and strong and QUICK DRYING, rather than waterproof. 5. Use all plastic zippers (A friend recently gave me his old Sage ‘Strap vest’. It had been used in the sea and the YKK metal zippers had corroded badly). 6. Unless you really spend a lot of time wading very deep,  longer vests are more comfortable to wear: you feel less like Dolly Parton wearing them. My penny’orth Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

6. Unless you really spend a lot of time wading very deep,  longer vests are more comfortable to wear: you feel less like Dolly Parton wearing them.

I have no choice about what kind of vest I get.  I have to get the short vest or it will go past my massive ass.  I’m sorter than the other guy. However, I’m sure short men or ladies also need the short vest due to physical stature.  Very unlike sex, longer is not always better. Vern

Response:

…I don’t remember the pattern number but if you have trouble finding it I believe I still have it around somewhere and can look it up….

Just did an on line search and came up with the following.  This is the pattern I used.  #2198- men’s sport vest. http://www.kwiksew.com/Patterns/_Cat_North/Frame.htm Good luck!

Response:

What has ROFF turned into!?!?  Some sort of girly-man group?  Let’s all get out our needles and thread now!

It’s a balance thing Jon.  This Saturday I plan to take Becky out in the fields and teach her to kick shit.  Sunday we bake bread and do the Trick or Treat thing.  The next weekend is devoted to killing things and then we move on to bonsai.  :)

Response:

: What has ROFF turned into!?!?  Some sort of girly-man group?  Let’s all : get out our needles and thread now! : : : It’s a balance thing Jon.  This Saturday I plan to take Becky out in the fields and teach her to : kick shit.  Sunday we bake bread and do the Trick or Treat thing.  The next weekend is devoted to : killing things and then we move on to bonsai.  :) In my case: bonsai = killing things (poor little tree never had a fighting chance we me wielding the clippers)

Response:

In my case: bonsai = killing things (poor little tree never had a fighting chance we me wielding the clippers)

Hm…..sort of makes me wonder about the ethics of amputating limbs from captive trees.  I don’t suppose anyone out there has an opinion on this do they?

Response:

Hm…..sort of makes me wonder about the ethics of amputating limbs from captive trees.  I don’t suppose anyone out there has an opinion on this do they?

Depends on if you eat the limb or not. — Charlie…

Response:

: What has ROFF turned into!?!?  Some sort of girly-man group?  Let’s all : get out our needles and thread now!

Really…we gonna fish or we gonna sew ? (Mine has darts !) — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

Response:

Willi, I made a vest.  I always wanted one made from Blue Denim, sort of like a Levi Denim Jacket without sleeves.  I just used a vest I had and drew a pattern on some paper.  Then I laid out the things I wanted to carry and figured out the places and size for the pockets. The pockets all have Velcro closures.  It came out good and I have worn it for years.  I also made a tent, it was a lot of fun. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

Response:

Somehow I had a feeling Ernie was going to answer saying he’d made his own vest. My hat goes off to you. Steve Zimmerman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi, I made a vest Ernie Harrison

Response:

Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

I made several vests. I was ultimately satisfied with none of them  although my brother and a couple of other people still use them ). I went back to a custom made fishing jacket. With far too many pockets ! TL MC

Response:

Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.

I made a vest while a grad student; I was too poor to buy one.  That was about 1956.  I used it till 1996.   It was still in good condition but I decided to treat myself to a new one. The trick is to plan ahead very carefully, so that you can sew the pockets on the inside the and outside without  interference. vince norris  The one I have now is close to – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

Response:

Willi, I have designed several fly fishing vests/shirts (not commercially, but for myself). I did the "engineering", my poor wife the sewing. One tip I have is to carefully consider how the load will be carried and distributed after the pockets are filled. If there is too much weight in the pockets in the front, the vest pulls down in front around your neck…very uncomfortable. Also, it can be a challenge getting the best waterproof materials. Good luck. Bob Elliott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits. Willi

Response:

Anyone here every made a vest? None of the vests I’ve owned have the right sized pockets in the right places.  The one I have now is close to what I want. I was thinking about taking it apart and using it as a pattern and then making the changes I want. I’ve made a tent, sleeping bag and a down vest in the past, but they were made from kits.

Willi; I have made several vests using a Kwik Sew pattern.  The pattern is for a general purpose vest, not specifically for fishing.  But if you’re good enough with a sewing machine to make your own you won’t have any trouble modifying it to suit your needs.  I use my vest for hunting so the pockets outlined in the pattern are sufficient for my needs.  It won’t be much trouble to add a few more if you like.  this pattern is also too long for a good fishing vest but again, it should be easy enough to shorten.  I don’t remember the pattern number but if you have trouble finding it I believe I still have it around somewhere and can look it up.

Response:

Yeah Charlie, but it was before she was famous. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Somehow I had a feeling Ernie was going to answer saying he’d made his own vest. My hat goes off to you. Hell, Ernie made Martha Stewart once<g. — Charlie…

Response:

Question:

I have offered flies occasionally, but usually only do so when asked, and I would never try to give anybody casting lessons etc unasked, I think this might be akin to asking for a punch on the nose.  The skill or lack of it which one possesses, is a very personal thing, criticising a complete stranger is a no no in my opinion. TL MC

Response:

I have offered flies occasionally, but usually only do so when asked, and I would never try to give anybody casting lessons etc unasked, I think this might be akin to asking for a punch on the nose.  The skill or lack of it which one possesses, is a very personal thing, criticising a complete stranger is a no no in my opinion.

And you know that no matter how carefully one was to couch any assistance to avoid it being taken as criticism, the risk is still high that someone’s feelings are going to be injured. I just don’t see the high-percentage up-side to offering unsolicited casting assistance. And frankly, I’m on the water to enjoy myself, not to risk the ire of a flogger… /daytripper

Response:

I only help when asked (fly choices, where, ect).  I have never given casting lessons while I am trying to fish nor do I plan to start that practice. I can understand wanting to be helpful and all, but let a beginner plot their own course. Some of the best lessons I have learned on my own.  If it is someone you know (like I just taught my brother), then don’t plan on fishing much and sure as hell don’t show off your expertise and catch a lot of fish using the same fly, in the same place.  That will just them turn them off thinking they are a failure. Warren

Response:

I tell you truly, I try not to intrude. Women are more willing to take advice about it, naturally, but even they have to make at least one plaintive eye-contact before I’ll offer up a fly or a suggestion. If they want help, they’ll tell you somehow. W.E.S. Harman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away? I have helped a few people (usually young men or woman) by offering them a fly and maybe one little hint about their cast. I’ve usually been greeted with despirate thanks.  For adult males its usually like approaching a mad bear. I’ve often been told to go get f**ed. Do any of you have tactics to approach new fisherman with a little advice?  My only success is usually to catch 10 fish under their nose and let them ask what am I doing. For you new to fly fishers,  I’d suggest that you do approach more accomplished fisherman on the stream for advise or fly selection. As soon at your told the secret is a 16 calibaetis emerger and you give a blank look, the fisherman will usually get more basic without you needing to ask the obvious question. Watch the guy fishing for a while before you ask what fly since its seldom the fly but how he/she is fishing that makes the real difference. Is he fishing upstream or across, in the seems or off the bank, wet or dry, with extra weight or not, with a dropper or single fly, dead drift, slow or fast retrieve???

Response:

I tell you truly, I try not to intrude. Women are more willing to take advice about it, naturally, but even they have to make at least one plaintive eye-contact before I’ll offer up a fly or a suggestion. If they want help, they’ll tell you somehow.

I wish I could get any eye contact from any women on the stream, then again I have yet to see a woman on the stream : ( Tim Apple — "Bamboo is Better"

Response:

Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away?

Snip<<< Generally, I’ll laugh out loud a few times and then start in with the verbal haranguing. "Nice tailing loop, loser! froth up the water a little more. Where’d you learn to cast, the Walt Winter school of casting. I’ve seen better back casts on a drunken, cross eyed bait dunker!" I have found this to be very helpful…… Matt M.

Response:

Whassis, Matt?  Smoking that stuff again?  And, Im NOT cross eyed! Myoptic, yes, but strabismus, not!  And HEY, I tyed my own shoes!  A *real* guide would show a little humility.  The lessons are worth the Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Snip<<< Generally, I’ll laugh out loud a few times and then start in with the verbal haranguing. "Nice tailing loop, loser! froth up the water a little more. Where’d you learn to cast, the Walt Winter school of casting. I’ve seen better back casts on a drunken, cross eyed bait dunker!" I have found this to be very helpful…… Matt M.

Response:

I went out to my home river last night at about 7:30 to fish the evening hatch. I was fishing a run that usually holds some good fish when there’s a hatch on. They come out of a deep pool down below to feed in the shallower, swifter water. I’ve been fishing this stretch of the river for about fifteen years and feel I know it very well. A young, blonde woman in hippers was fishing upstream and saw me catch a couple of little ones. She came down to ask me what I was using.  I gave her a couple of flies, showed her one of the mayflies the trout were feeding on and wished her luck.  She then told me that the fish were rising "like crazy" in the pool down below but she couldn’t wade out far enough because she was too short. I explained to her that there was a school of very small Browns that surface feed in the pool every evening but that the better fish move up into the head of the pool and into the run I was fishing. Fishing was fairly slow where I was and there was only about fifteen minutes left before I couldn’t see my fly any more. So I thought I’d go down stream and catch a few of those "little browns" that were rising "like crazy."  When I got there, they WERE rising like crazy and were feeding on the same small dun mayfly that was hatching in the run above. On the second or third cast, I had a solid take. Expecting a little Brown, I wasn’t ready for the strong down stream run and I broke off the fish. A few minutes later I got another hook up, I was a little better prepared and after a nice battle landed a Rainbow of about 16". It was then pretty dark, but the fish were still rising. Although I couldn’t see my fly, I could make out the rise forms, so I took a few more casts and hooked and landed a Rainbow that was pushing 20".   Nice way to end the evening but I had another little treat in store. Wading back to shore I tripped on a boulder and took a dunking. While I was swearing at myself for being so stupid, I thought about my conversation with the young woman. She gave me a nice evening of fishing and I felt like an ass for being such a know it all. Willi

Response:

Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish I could get any eye contact from any women on the stream, then again I have yet to see a woman on the stream : ( Tim Apple

Response:

Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison

Yes, but did you get a rise ? TL MC

Response:

What ? a beginner trashing water in frustration ? Most of the people I see on streams fish like this: ^^^^^ back-cast … splash … forward cast … splash (repeat about 10 times to get 40 yards out) drag drag drag. Ok, just kidding. I sometimes offer flies when asked what I am using.  Sometimes I relinquish my spot if I sense that the other angler feels that I have the best spot and he is fishing dead water. A slightly different problem is the lack of stream etiquette that beginners seem to have. I rarely had a problem sharing streams with old timers, however, new fishermen are often a pain in the butt.  Aside for people moving close to me and cast at the same trout I am working on, I had people crossing streams just where I was, or, in some cases, going near the place I was casting to, to see if there was a trout there …. What do you do in those cases ?  I usually move to the next pool: the few times I made a comment about the behaviour, I received blank stares in return. Now, as FF has become increasingly popular with wealthier people in the recent years, who often buy Orvis stuff, I wonder if the dislike that this group has shown towards Orvis is really due to the dislike of new fishermen lacking stream etiquette and dressed in rather expensive outfits ….. -Vittorio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away? I have helped a few people (usually young men or woman) by offering them a fly and maybe one little hint about their cast. I’ve usually been greeted with despirate thanks.  For adult males its usually like approaching a mad bear. I’ve often been told to go get f**ed. Do any of you have tactics to approach new fisherman with a little advice?  My only success is usually to catch 10 fish under their nose and let them ask what am I doing. For you new to fly fishers,  I’d suggest that you do approach more accomplished fisherman on the stream for advise or fly selection. As soon at your told the secret is a 16 calibaetis emerger and you give a blank look, the fisherman will usually get more basic without you needing to ask the obvious question. Watch the guy fishing for a while before you ask what fly since its seldom the fly but how he/she is fishing that makes the real difference. Is he fishing upstream or across, in the seems or off the bank, wet or dry, with extra weight or not, with a dropper or single fly, dead drift, slow or fast retrieve???

Response:

ah, mike…that must be the germanic influence engorging your brit nature…soon you’ll be postin about teen-y flies… jeff (worshiping at the mons venus) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison Yes, but did you get a rise ? TL MC

Response:

you mean all that stuff walt taught me was wrong?  he said it was in the orvis book… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Many of us have been on a stream or lake and watched a beginner thrash the water in frustration. Bad casting or presentation culminating in a temper tantrum and no fish caught. The question is do you offer help, or stay the hell away? Snip<<< Generally, I’ll laugh out loud a few times and then start in with the verbal haranguing. "Nice tailing loop, loser! froth up the water a little more. Where’d you learn to cast, the Walt Winter school of casting. I’ve seen better back casts on a drunken, cross eyed bait dunker!" I have found this to be very helpful…… Matt M.

Response:

Tim,    The last woman I saw on a trout stream was when I was fly fishing up the middle of a small stream and came around a large rock and there was a woman nude sun bathing on her back with her feet pointed at me.  I expected her to grab a towel or roll over, but she just watched me fish on through.  I don’t know if I got any strikes in the next twenty yards or not. Ernie Harrison

Mr. G.   ‘all’s fair with fur or feather’ http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com http://www.xink.com 509-243-4100 or 5500

Question:

Thanx for the help~!

Response:

I am kinda new to fly fishing and new to this group. I do lots of fishing but not very much fly fishing. I got a fly rod 2 years ago and just put line on it today. I have some "No-tie" things that you put into the line that holds the leader into the backing. Is there an easy way to get the no-tie on there?? I am having trouble. Thanx

Response:

I am kinda new to fly fishing and new to this group. I do lots of fishing but not very much fly fishing. I got a fly rod 2 years ago and just put line on it today. I have some "No-tie" things that you put into the line that holds the leader into the backing. Is there an easy way to get the no-tie on there?? I am having trouble. Thanx

So we’re talking about the same things the backing goes on the spool first. The backing connects to the fly line and the leader attaches to the fly line. By "no-tie" do you mean the braided loop connectors that go over the fly line or the metal eyes that you stick in the line? If it’s the latter the best thing to do is loose them and tie the backing directly to the flyline and then the leader directly to the fly line. In almost every box of fly line there is a little booklet that shows the knots to use to attach backing to the spool, the line to the backing and the leader to the line. Learn the knots – they can save the day as well as your equipment. The braided loop connectors are a good alternative to tying the backing and the leader to the fly line. These slip over the fly line and use a piece of heat shrink tubing to anchor the end to the line. When the loop is pulled the braid cinches down on the fly line and holds tight.  Now with the loop on the fly line and a loop tied in the leader and backing you can quickly connect the three lines together with the loop to loop handshake knot. When you tie a loop in the backing make it’s big enough that you can make the connection with the flyline while it’s still on the spool it came on.

Response:

Question:

Hi All, You might think about the Trinity River in Nor Cal for steelhead this fall. I start fishing there in October, but November through March can be very steady. Look at Herb and Pat Burton’s web site for a good fly shop and guide servise. www.trinityflyshop.com Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Bill: By the way, I am totally satisfied with Orvis Battenkill 7/8 for my summer steelhead fishing (I use a 10 foot 7 weight rod). It can handle any steelhead under 20 pounds; I have never hooked bigger ones (Well, I might have, then they all broke off). And it is very affordable. Now I need to replace my Lamson LP-7, which I have used with a 15 foot Spey rod. I lost two hot steelhead last spring because the Lamson went free spooling. Do you think Battenkill 10/11 is a good replacement? It needs to hold at least 150 yards of 30 pound backing with a 80 feet 10 weight DT line. Shinji on the Sky – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, You might think about the Trinity River in Nor Cal for steelhead this fall. I start fishing there in October, but November through March can be very steady. Look at Herb and Pat Burton’s web site for a good fly shop and guide servise. www.trinityflyshop.com Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Question:

I am in the market for a new pair of float tube fins to replace the ones I currently use – which are Caddis fins. The new fins I am interested in buying are something called Force Fin float tube fins. They are advertised as being 40 – 60 percent more efficient than the average float tube fins on the market today. Here are some of my questions: 1. Has anyone used Force Fin float tube fins and found them better than the ones they previously used. 2. Does anyone knows how many models they have. 3. Do they (Force Fin) have a web site? Don. "May the fish be with you"

Response:

I am in the market for a new pair of float tube fins to replace the ones I currently use – which are Caddis fins. The new fins I am interested in buying are something called Force Fin float tube fins. They are advertised as being 40 – 60 percent more efficient than the average float tube fins on the market today. Here are some of my questions: 1. Has anyone used Force Fin float tube fins and found them better than the ones they previously used.

Force fins are great if you have to hike in with them.  They are very light, and provide reasonable propulsion.   For most of my tubing, however, I use a longer, stiff scuba fin that gives me more power. 2. Does anyone knows how many models they have.

I think they have two, one fits all sizes, one comes in S, M. L. XL, etc. 3. Do they (Force Fin) have a web site?   Don’t know?

If you decide to buy them, I can put you in touch with someone who sells Force Fin cosmetic blems for a good price compared to full retail. John Woodling Sacramento, CA

Response:

I’ve been using mine for three or four years and have no complaints. I do believe they are a little more powerful than my previous standard fins, and they are a little bit easier to "walk" in. Hope this helps! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in the market for a new pair of float tube fins to replace the ones I currently use – which are Caddis fins. The new fins I am interested in buying are something called Force Fin float tube fins. They are advertised as being 40 – 60 percent more efficient than the average float tube fins on the market today. Here are some of my questions: 1. Has anyone used Force Fin float tube fins and found them better than the ones they previously used. 2. Does anyone knows how many models they have. 3. Do they (Force Fin) have a web site? Don. "May the fish be with you"

Response:

Personally, if you are driving to the lake, or the walk is short, forget about anything but SCUBA PRO Jet fins.  With these large rubber fins you can tube for hours and hours and never tire.  Your maneuverablilty is unbelievable and best of all you can tube faster than most powerboats out there!!!

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Hi Donald: I don’t know if it really matters, but Force Fins are scuba fins.   They’re not super big hits in the diving community though.  It’s either because they don’t work as well as regular fins or because they look plain weird. Either way, I use regular, Scuba Pro-like fins for both diving and tubing.

<snip The thing is – I don’t want to pay $100+ for a pair of Force Fin fins if it does not perform at least as good as a pair of scuba fins.

<snip

Response:

You may be right, I beginning to think that scuba fins are better than the Caddis fins, Flip fins, Force Fin fins, or any of the short float tube fins on the market today. One of the reasons I wanted to get a new pair of float tube fins is to be able to keep up with my friends who are using scuba type fins to propel themselves. But at the same time, I wanted to be able to wear my wading boots with my fins, something that Force Fin fins will allow me to do. I was also hoping that the Force Fin fins will at least allow me to have the same thrusting power as a good pair of scuba fins. But by some of the responses I have been getting from folks here, it seems that a good pair of scuba fins may be more superior to a pair of Force Fin fins when it comes to propelling one’s float tube on the water. The thing is – I don’t want to pay $100+ for a pair of Force Fin fins if it does not perform at least as good as a pair of scuba fins. On large lakes, one does not want to expend a lot of extra energy to propel a float tube after a 3+ hour hike to get to a high mountain lake. Don. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, if you are driving to the lake, or the walk is short, forget about anything but SCUBA PRO Jet fins.  With these large rubber fins you can tube for hours and hours and never tire.  Your maneuverablilty is unbelievable and best of all you can tube faster than most powerboats out there!!!

Response:

Look for fins that: 1- Cover your heel so you don’t chafe holes in your wet suit and don’t fill up easily with mud and sand when slogging around in the shallows. You can also wear booties to protect waders but it’s one more thing to buy, lug around and lose. 2- FLOAT. Diving fins are usually slightly negatively bouyant. Float tube fins do get scrubbed off when doing the heavy weed thing. Use tethers if your fins don’t float. 3- Flex rather easily. Diving fins are propelled by a slightly bent leg with most of the energy arising from the thigh, buttock and lower back. A float tube fin is propelled by the quads and a kick from the foot. Your legs will easily tire and your foot can cramp after heavy duty kicking with a long bladed, stiff dive fin. A flexy fin will sacrifice power up front but you’ll more than make up for it in the long run.    -Ralph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You may be right, I beginning to think that scuba fins are better than the Caddis fins, Flip fins, Force Fin fins, or any of the short float tube fins on the market today. One of the reasons I wanted to get a new pair of float tube fins is to be able to keep up with my friends who are using scuba type fins to propel themselves. But at the same time, I wanted to be able to wear my wading boots with my fins, something that Force Fin fins will allow me to do. I was also hoping that the Force Fin fins will at least allow me to have the same thrusting power as a good pair of scuba fins. But by some of the responses I have been getting from folks here, it seems that a good pair of scuba fins may be more superior to a pair of Force Fin fins when it comes to propelling one’s float tube on the water. The thing is – I don’t want to pay $100+ for a pair of Force Fin fins if it does not perform at least as good as a pair of scuba fins. On large lakes, one does not want to expend a lot of extra energy to propel a float tube after a 3+ hour hike to get to a high mountain lake. Don. Personally, if you are driving to the lake, or the walk is short, forget about anything but SCUBA PRO Jet fins.  With these large rubber fins you can tube for hours and hours and never tire.  Your maneuverablilty is unbelievable and best of all you can tube faster than most powerboats out there!!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You may be right, I beginning to think that scuba fins are better than the Caddis fins, Flip fins, Force Fin fins, or any of the short float tube fins on the market today. One of the reasons I wanted to get a new pair of float tube fins is to be able to keep up with my friends who are using scuba type fins to propel themselves. But at the same time, I wanted to be able to wear my wading boots with my fins, something that Force Fin fins will allow me to do. I was also hoping that the Force Fin fins will at least allow me to have the same thrusting power as a good pair of scuba fins. But by some of the responses I have been getting from folks here, it seems that a good pair of scuba fins may be more superior to a pair of Force Fin fins when it comes to propelling one’s float tube on the water. The thing is – I don’t want to pay $100+ for a pair of Force Fin fins if it does not perform at least as good as a pair of scuba fins. On large lakes, one does not want to expend a lot of extra energy to propel a float tube after a 3+ hour hike to get to a high mountain lake. Don. Personally, if you are driving to the lake, or the walk is short, forget about anything but SCUBA PRO Jet fins.  With these large rubber fins you can tube for hours and hours and never tire.  Your maneuverablilty is unbelievable and best of all you can tube faster than most powerboats out there!!!

As far as the wading bots go, I use scuba fins and a pair of good ol’ Converse tennies for boots, and they work great.  I can outrace my buddy in his force fins quite handily.  He gets into the tube and the water more easily, however.

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Good points all Ralph, but are you familiar with the "Jet Fin"?  It is quite flexible though it does not cover your heel.  By the way, how’s the situation at Martis?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in the market for a new pair of float tube fins to replace the ones I currently use – which are Caddis fins. The new fins I am interested in buying are something called Force Fin float tube fins. They are advertised as being 40 – 60 percent more efficient than the average float tube fins on the market today. Here are some of my questions: 1. Has anyone used Force Fin float tube fins and found them better than the ones they previously used. 2. Does anyone knows how many models they have. 3. Do they (Force Fin) have a web site? Don. "May the fish be with you"

I know that Force Fins are very popular in northern California with the float-tubers. They make lots of models, but the fly shops usually carry the original model and the Adjustable. The originals come in sizes small, medium, medium/large, large, extra large and xx-large. The Adjustable come in one size and will fit over a boot or almost anything. The original sells for $85 to $99 and the Adjustable sells for $119 to $135. We sell the Caddis to people that are not traveling great distances in a day of fishing. They don’t float, so get some teethers. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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0] : I am in the market for a new pair of float tube fins to replace : the ones I currently use – which are Caddis fins. The new fins I : am interested in buying are something called Force Fin float tube : fins. They are advertised as being 40 – 60 percent more : efficient than the average float tube fins on the market today. : : Here are some of my questions: : : 1. Has anyone used Force Fin float tube fins and found them better : than the ones they previously used. : : 2. Does anyone knows how many models they have. : : 3. Do they (Force Fin) have a web site? : : Don. "May the fish be with you" If you would like some entertainment, try posting this question in rec.scuba and follow the resulting thread/holy-war. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (415)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

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Question:

I would advise against wrapping any guide that’s bigger than you.  -AR

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If you use no color preserver, you take away the option of ever replacing a guide if you need to.  There is no way to remove the wrap without destroying the blank.

Bad advice here!  It is actually quite easy to remove a guide wrapped with non-NCP thread.  Done correctly, there will be no damage to the blank.  Simply cut through the wrap and epoxy with a single edge razor.  Slice along the guide foot to help avoid nicking the blank. Once you get started, simply slip your fingernail under the wrap and it will peel off.  No problem. I think your mass production types are more interested in eliminating a step from the manufacturing process (properly applied and allowed to dry, color preserver would add about 24 hours) than blending the color of the thread into the blank.

Actually, I think most manufacturers use non-NCP because most buyers prefer the look. You are correct however that the wrap will be stronger when the epoxy finish is applied without color preserver.  OTOH, I’ve been told that when properly done, the wrap alone should provide all the strength required to hold the guide on the rod and you should not rely on the finish to make up for a loose wrap.

It is true that you should never rely on the finish to make up for a loose wrap, but then you would always use a finish, so whether the thread wrap alone would be strong enough over time to hold the guide is academic.  Go for the strongest wrap you can and use non-NCP thread except for trim rings. Lyman Lyman G. Hughes Dallas, TX Ennis, MT

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bad advice here!  It is actually quite easy to remove a guide wrapped with non-NCP thread.  Done correctly, there will be no damage to the blank.  Simply cut through the wrap and epoxy with a single edge razor.  Slice along the guide foot to help avoid nicking the blank. Once you get started, simply slip your fingernail under the wrap and it will peel off.  No problem. Actually, I think most manufacturers use non-NCP because most buyers prefer the look. It is true that you should never rely on the finish to make up for a loose wrap, but then you would always use a finish, so whether the thread wrap alone would be strong enough over time to hold the guide is academic.  Go for the strongest wrap you can and use non-NCP thread except for trim rings.

Great post, Lyman. My 15 years of building custom fly rods for myself, others, and commercially confirm everything you’ve said. In my rod repairs, I have never encountered a situation where blank damage has occurred when removing a guide, even on rods that had been wrapped 25 years ago. It just takes care and patience. I use standard thread with no color preservers on 90% of the rods I build. The bottom line is this technique is the best way to obtain a wrap that closely matches the color of the blank. This "stealthiness" has invaded the fly rod industry. Just take a look at Sage’s new SP line or Winston’s IM6 rods and you’ll see why the process looks so good. Ryan

Response:

If you use no color preserver, you take away the option of ever replacing a guide if you need to.  There is no way to remove the wrap without destroying the blank. Bad advice here!  It is actually quite easy to remove a guide wrapped with non-NCP thread.  Done correctly, there will be no damage to the blank.  Simply cut through the wrap and epoxy with a single edge razor.  Slice along the guide foot to help avoid nicking the blank. Once you get started, simply slip your fingernail under the wrap and it will peel off.  No problem.

Are you kidding?  What kind of "epoxy" are you using?  When applied without color preserver the finish soaks through the thread and comes into direct contact with the blank.  I have encountered no epoxy that will "peel off" of anything. Every time I’ve tried what you mention, the thread/finish combination has turned into a solid mass.  I’ve tried exactly what you describe and cut along the guide foot with a razor.  When I pulled off the guide (with much effort) the rest of the wrap/finish stayed right where it was and left a nice solid wrap with a trench gug out where the guide foot had been.

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I used straight epoxy with no color preserve and had my rod spinner break down during the night. I woke up wih big bellies in all my wraps. I just cut them off fairly easily with a rasor and re-wrapped the whole rod. It wasn’t a big project to remove the old wrappings.

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Quoting "DavidC.Benjamin"<dcb from a message in rec.outdoors.fishing.fly    <I am seeking advice on the use of non-NCP thread for    <guide wrapping on a rod I am building.  Up to this point    <I have used only NCP threads and have been very satisfied    <with the results when finished. David – If you use non-NCP thread withoput applying color preserver it will become somewhat transparent when you apply the rod finish.  How transparent will depend on the color thread used.  If you look at some  factory rods its easy to see which brands do not use color preserver as the guidefeet show thru the wraps.  If you use color preserver the non-NCP thread will have a sparkley coloring as opposed to the flatter colors of the NCP thread.  It’s really personal preference which you prefer more. Jim Carlisle

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am seeking advice on the use of non-NCP thread for guide wrapping on a rod I am building.  Up to this point I have used only NCP threads and have been very satisfied with the results when finished.   Recently, I bought a Thomas & Thomas Horizon blank and it is a dark blue in color.  I plan to wrap it using a dark blue colored thread (Navy Blue) with light blue and gold highlights.  However, when ordering the threads I found that the Navy Blue (Guderod #066) does not come in NCP.  I am worried that when coated it will become transparent — which I definitely do not want.  Skip Morris’s book says that if you do a trial wrap and soak it with water, you can see what it will look like when coated.  I did so and it was not transparent and I am satisfied with the way it looks and hopefully will look when coated. Question: has anyone out there had any experience with this "problem" and will it really remain non-transparent when finished?  I hope to wrap the rod within the next few days, finish it this weekend and fish it on the 27th or 28th. As you can imagine I hope to get feedback "very" soon. Thanks in advance! Keep your fly dry, David p.s. Lyman, are you out there?

I think many of the major fly rod manufacturers use non-NCP thread with no color preserver. This is not the way they finish those cool convetional salt water sticks. You will get a transparent result with no color preserver on standard thread. This gives them a clean look with the thread blending with the blank and also allows the epoxy to penetrate the thread better to bond with the blank. I have been selling rod building supplies for over 30 years and have heard almost every story imaginable. If someone has better info I will not be shocked as I have been wrong before. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am seeking advice on the use of non-NCP thread for guide wrapping on a rod I am building.  Up to this point I have used only NCP threads and have been very satisfied with the results when finished.   Recently, I bought a Thomas & Thomas Horizon blank and it is a dark blue in color.  I plan to wrap it using a dark blue colored thread (Navy Blue) with light blue and gold highlights.  However, when ordering the threads I found that the Navy Blue (Guderod #066) does not come in NCP.  I am worried that when coated it will become transparent — which I definitely do not want.  Skip Morris’s book says that if you do a trial wrap and soak it with water, you can see what it will look like when coated.  I did so and it was not transparent and I am satisfied with the way it looks and hopefully will look when coated. Question: has anyone out there had any experience with this "problem" and will it really remain non-transparent when finished?  I hope to wrap the rod within the next few days, finish it this weekend and fish it on the 27th or 28th. As you can imagine I hope to get feedback "very" soon. Thanks in advance! Keep your fly dry, David p.s. Lyman, are you out there? I think many of the major fly rod manufacturers use non-NCP thread with no color preserver. This is not the way they finish those cool convetional salt water sticks. You will get a transparent result with no color preserver on standard thread. This gives them a clean look with the thread blending with the blank and also allows the epoxy to penetrate the thread better to bond with the blank. I have been selling rod building supplies for over 30 years and have heard almost every story imaginable. If someone has better info I will not be shocked as I have been wrong before. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

But… If you use no color preserver, you take away the option of ever replacing a guide if you need to.  There is no way to remove the wrap without destroying the blank. I think your mass production types are more interested in eliminating a step from the manufacturing process (properly applied and allowed to dry, color preserver would add about 24 hours) than blending the color of the thread into the blank. You are correct however that the wrap will be stronger when the epoxy finish is applied without color preserver.  OTOH, I’ve been told that when properly done, the wrap alone should provide all the strength required to hold the guide on the rod and you should not rely on the finish to make up for a loose wrap.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am seeking advice on the use of non-NCP thread for guide wrapping on a rod I am building.  Up to this point I have used only NCP threads and have been very satisfied with the results when finished.   Recently, I bought a Thomas & Thomas Horizon blank and it is a dark blue in color.  I plan to wrap it using a dark blue colored thread (Navy Blue) with light blue and gold highlights.  However, when ordering the threads I found that the Navy Blue (Guderod #066) does not come in NCP.  I am worried that when coated it will become transparent — which I definitely do not want.  Skip Morris’s book says that if you do a trial wrap and soak it with water, you can see what it will look like when coated.  I did so and it was not transparent and I am satisfied with the way it looks and hopefully will look when coated. Question: has anyone out there had any experience with this "problem" and will it really remain non-transparent when finished?  I hope to wrap the rod within the next few days, finish it this weekend and fish it on the 27th or 28th. As you can imagine I hope to get feedback "very" soon. Thanks in advance! Keep your fly dry, David p.s. Lyman, are you out there? I think many of the major fly rod manufacturers use non-NCP thread with no color preserver. This is not the way they finish those cool convetional salt water sticks. You will get a transparent result with no color preserver on standard thread. This gives them a clean look with the thread blending with the blank and also allows the epoxy to penetrate the thread better to bond with the blank. I have been selling rod building supplies for over 30 years and have heard almost every story imaginable. If someone has better info I will not be shocked as I have been wrong before. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

I always use color preservative to provide the ability to replace the guide (it WILL happen) and to seal the underwrap/blank wrap. In addition I find that the application of epoxy is easier (resulting in a much better finish) since I don’t have to hunt for gaps in the thread (the preserver fills it in). Of course as you say there are a million stroies and a million ways …. "The true angler is always content to fish alone" Brian Di Carlo

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Using that dark thread on a similarly-colored blank, you shouldn’t have any trouble.  I build a lot of salt-water "standup" tuna rods on black Seeker blanks, and use medium blue non-NCP A thread for base wraps.  It works fine–as does the even lighter grey "gunmetal" thread I’m now using on a pair of Shakespeare Ugly Sticks.  Just be careful to use enough coats of color preserver, and soak all of the wrap.  I usually use 3 coats half-strength and 2 coats full strength (Clemens "Brilliance" brand) before applying the epoxy coats.  If you see "bleed-through" with the color preserver that doesn’t disappear when the preserver dries, you have a problem.  Redo that wrap.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am seeking advice on the use of non-NCP thread for guide wrapping on a rod I am building.  Up to this point I have used only NCP threads and have been very satisfied with the results when finished.   Recently, I bought a Thomas & Thomas Horizon blank and it is a dark blue in color.  I plan to wrap it using a dark blue colored thread (Navy Blue) with light blue and gold highlights.  However, when ordering the threads I found that the Navy Blue (Guderod #066) does not come in NCP.  I am worried that when coated it will become transparent — which I definitely do not want.  Skip Morris’s book says that if you do a trial wrap and soak it with water, you can see what it will look like when coated.  I did so and it was not transparent and I am satisfied with the way it looks and hopefully will look when coated. Question: has anyone out there had any experience with this "problem" and will it really remain non-transparent when finished?  I hope to wrap the rod within the next few days, finish it this weekend and fish it on the 27th or 28th. As you can imagine I hope to get feedback "very" soon. Thanks in advance! Keep your fly dry, David p.s. Lyman, are you out there?

There is a very good chance that the thread will become somewhat transparent when you apply epoxy.  The way to solve this problem is to use colour preserver.  One of the best brands available in my opinion is U40 Color Lock.   I think you will be pleased with regular thread over NCP thread.  This type of thread has stronger highlights when used with color preserver, and I think looks much better than NCP.  As well, an added bonus is that Regular thread is a little stronger than NCP as well it is not as porous, therefore, you will not have the same bubble problems that may occur with NCP. Ian Scott Wishbone Custom Rods http://www.headwaters.com/wishbone

Response:

I am seeking advice on the use of non-NCP thread for guide wrapping on a rod I am building.  Up to this point I have used only NCP threads and have been very satisfied with the results when finished.   Recently, I bought a Thomas & Thomas Horizon blank and it is a dark blue in color.  I plan to wrap it using a dark blue colored thread (Navy Blue) with light blue and gold highlights.  However, when ordering the threads I found that the Navy Blue (Guderod #066) does not come in NCP.  I am worried that when coated it will become transparent — which I definitely do not want.  Skip Morris’s book says that if you do a trial wrap and soak it with water, you can see what it will look like when coated.  I did so and it was not transparent and I am satisfied with the way it looks and hopefully will look when coated. Question: has anyone out there had any experience with this "problem" and will it really remain non-transparent when finished?  I hope to wrap the rod within the next few days, finish it this weekend and fish it on the 27th or 28th. As you can imagine I hope to get feedback "very" soon. Thanks in advance! Keep your fly dry, David p.s. Lyman, are you out there?

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I am suppose to go camping for the whole month of August on the north shore of the St-Laurent River.  I will be going in the surrounddings of the Lac St-Jean. Parc Mingan, Gaspesie, P.E.I., New brunswick, Nova Scotia and finally Maine. I would be please if there was somebody out there that could advice me on  more specific place to go and flies and method of fishing to use Richard  457-3067 montreal

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I am suppose to go camping for the whole month of August on the north shore of the St-Laurent River.  I will be going in the surrounddings of the Lac St-Jean. Parc Mingan, Gaspesie, P.E.I., New brunswick, Nova Scotia and finally Maine. I would be please if there was somebody out there that could advice me on  more specific place to go and flies and method of fishing to use Richard  457-3067 montreal

Response:

Richard, You didn’t say what part of Maine you need info for.  A couple suggestions if your plans are flexible. The West Branch of the Penobscot river west of Millinocket is the premier landlocked salmon river in New England.  The area below Ripogenus dam down past the entrance to Baxter State PArk is considered best.  Check the locals for specific flies/hatches, but bring along some hornbergs, green ghost, gray ghost, elk hair caddis and royal wullfs as a starter. The area around Moosehead lake and Rangely lake is also a good spot.  Try the Roach river, Cupsptic River, Moose river, Little Kennebago, Magalloway River with the same flies mentioned above, in addition to an current hatch-matching selections.  The Maine Guide fly shop in Greenville near Moosehead lake is a good place to check for current information. You could also call LL Bean in Freeport Maine and ask for the fishing department.   They keep track of what is going on all over the state. Tight Lines, Gerry Crow

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Question:

Chuck,          I have a BBS devoted to fly fishing and have several nice pictures of rainbows, and a nice brown,  all in the 20" range.  The number is 303-530-2331. No charge.  See ya, Terry

Response:

Can anyone tell me where I can download nice color pictures of Brown or rainbow trout?

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Question:

I live in CO., and I’m planning on doing some fly fishing for lake trout this year.  I know several places to go, but I don’t know what flies or techniques to use.  Please post any suggestions on fly patterns and methods to use for lake trout.

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planning on doing some fly fishing for lake trout this year.  I know several places to go, but I don’t know what flies or techniques to use.  Please post any suggestions on fly patterns and methods to use for lake trout."     I’ve never ffed in CO, but in CA I’ve had some success with calebaetis sparkle duns, fished in shallow water near weed beds, during the mid-day hatch.  Fish were taking size16, but that was last Sept–maybe larger in spring.  Some swear by nymphs, like a PT, but I find drys easier & more fun when fish will take them.  By the way, the lake I’m talking about has a water temp around 47 deg F, even in warm weather, and I fish from a boat.  

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I live in CO., and I’m planning on doing some fly fishing for lake trout this year….

I go for lakers in NH on a regular basis.  Almost always trolling large (2,4 6X-10X) streamers, especially early in the year.  Gray ghost, red ghost, Lake St. John are some good patterns.  See American Angler on tying New England streamers from this winter.  Have fun. Martin

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