Question:

Just thought I’d post this for a friend, hopefully this is allowed by all of you. She is selling her fly fishing ranch along with all her fly shop inventory. If any of you are interested take a look here; http://www.blackfireflyfishing.com Thanks!!

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Just thought I’d post this for a friend, hopefully this is allowed by all of you. She is selling her fly fishing ranch along with all her fly shop inventory. If any of you are interested take a look here; http://www.blackfireflyfishing.com

Wolfgang workin in a coal mine, goin down down down

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helping? …you should rename the post: "helping rip-off the ignorant"…the prices are a joke,,she must be giving you a cut of the hefty product..id offer you 30cents on the dollar..like any other "liquidation"…so go play in the middle of the River..your bargain aint welcome here bubbye

Just thought I’d post this for a friend, hopefully this is allowed by all of you. She is selling her fly fishing ranch along with all her fly shop inventory. If any of you are interested take a look here; http://www.blackfireflyfishing.com Wolfgang workin in a coal mine, goin down down down

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

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Question:

(Sandy’s observations snipped) — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0

I think we’ve been down these threads before Sandy, but they are worth repeating.  I asked the question once before and never got a definitive answer (like you ever do in this group); What about crushing ants and rolling your ant pattern around in a bottle of crushed ants?  Work? Ethical?  I was stopped and questioned at length once by a game warden because he thought my Bio-Strike looked like Power Bait!  I might try the ant thing this summer though.  Mossy Creek Browns are notoriously pickey! Just an additional note here about the scent thing.  A Wildlife Biologist/Fraternity Brother always swore by Oil of Anise.  Said fish and small game couldn’t resist the smell.  What if some enterprising floatant maker developed Anise scented floatant?  Ant scented, Mayfly scented floatant lines? — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Just an additional note here about the scent thing.  A Wildlife Biologist/Fraternity Brother always swore by Oil of Anise.  Said fish and small game couldn’t resist the smell.  What if some enterprising floatant maker developed Anise scented floatant?  Ant scented, Mayfly scented floatant lines?

I know I’ve mentioned this here before; but it’s been a while, so here it is again.   The state regs in MD used to have a simple clause for artificials-only water, "if it smells like bait, it is bait." Joe F.

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I know I’ve mentioned this here before; but it’s been a while, so here it is again.   The state regs in MD used to have a simple clause for artificials-only water, "if it smells like bait, it is bait." Joe F.

If your gonna smear dead ants all over your fly then why not just hook a dead ant on the thing.  For that matter, why not dispense with the extra furry junk and just use the ant?  Let’s see, worms will hang on a hook easier than ants.  How about just using a worm and a big ball of strike indicater about 2 feet up the line?  Add to that a one piece bamboo "fly" rod and you have something which sounds familiar. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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Dear Chief the extra chili last night and they really enjoyed it. They howled alot during the night but seemed fine this A.M.  You forgot to take the extra set of underware I washed for you.  Perhaps you can borrow a pair from DEave, use your suspenders to keep them up.   Try to stay away from that Fontenberry guy, last time you went fishing with him you came home with alot of new dirty words and some screwed up opinions.  Take your celostral pill each  morning.your metamusal each night and don"t forget you should have one Manhatten each night. Your side of the tribe has never been able to handle firewater,

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"Wayne Hart" wrote <snip Just an additional note here about the scent thing.  A Wildlife Biologist/Fraternity Brother always swore by Oil of Anise.  Said fish and small game couldn’t resist the smell.  What if some enterprising floatant maker developed Anise scented floatant?  Ant scented, Mayfly scented floatant lines? Wayne

How about giving the whole area a rotten egg scent after one of Dave LaCourse’s clave breakfasts?  It isn’t from Anise but that’s close. Ernie

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Knowledge is power.

Excellent post Sandy. Mu, who spent the morning alternating between spinnerbaits and wooly buggers.  Didn’t bring my minoow trap though.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know I’ve mentioned this here before; but it’s been a while, so here it is again.   The state regs in MD used to have a simple clause for artificials-only water, "if it smells like bait, it is bait." Joe F. If your gonna smear dead ants all over your fly then why not just hook a dead ant on the thing.  For that matter, why not dispense with the extra furry junk and just use the ant?  Let’s see, worms will hang on a hook easier than ants.  How about just using a worm and a big ball of strike indicater about 2 feet up the line?  Add to that a one piece bamboo "fly" rod and you have something which sounds familiar. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Man, y’all gotta complicate thangs…get a old field phone and a bucket…or for you wacky types, Nitromon S and a good defense lawyer…you can fish and check fer erl… R To crank is exercise…. To blast Dangerous!

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Joe Fleischman writes: I know I’ve mentioned this here before; but it’s been a while, so here it is again.   The state regs in MD used to have a simple clause for artificials-only water, "if it smells like bait, it is bait." Joe F.

Well hell, Joe!  I guess I can’t fish in my favorite waders.   Hmmmmm, come to think of it, they don’t smell like bait, they smell Dave

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Ernie Harrison writes: How about giving the whole area a rotten egg scent after one of Dave LaCourse’s clave breakfasts?  It isn’t from Anise but that’s close. Ernie

Ernie, damn it, I resent that!  My breakfasts at the clave are eaten by all with much gusto and no complaints.  If you ever get your scrawny ass to one of these claves, I will prove it to you, if I have to force feed the %&# eggs to ya!  <g And then I will get my buddy Jeffy to deep fry you an egg in bacon grease and we will force you to eat it.  Then, we’ll seal you in your waders, and send you on your way.   And people will shun you, forever and ever. Dave

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Indian Joe sends a smoke signal: Dear Chief the extra chili last night and they really enjoyed it. They howled alot during the night but seemed fine this A.M. You forgot to take the extra set of underware I washed for you.  Perhaps you can borrow a pair from DEave, use your suspenders to keep them up.   Try to stay away from that Fontenberry guy, last time you went fishing with him you came home with alot of new dirty words and some screwed up opinions. Take your celostral pill each  morning.your metamusal each night and don"t forget you should have one Manhatten each night. Your side of the tribe has never been able to handle firewater,

Golly, Forty, only you and I made IJ’s celebrity  list this time around.  That underware stuff — is that like Tupper-ware? Your Pal, DEave

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Charlie Choc: My breakfasts at the clave are eaten by all with much gusto and no complaints.   Never knew you were the cook at Tooties (where I ate *my* clave breakfasts)<g. — Charlie…

That’s right, you never stay at clave central.  Put it this way, if you liked Tooties, you will love the breakfast IJ and I will fix you.  (pssst, don’t eat Jeffy’s eggs). Dave LaCourse

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Charlie Choc: My breakfasts at the clave are eaten by all with much gusto and no complaints. Never knew you were the cook at Tooties (where I ate *my* clave breakfasts)<g. — Charlie… That’s right, you never stay at clave central.  Put it this way, if you liked Tooties, you will love the breakfast IJ and I will fix you.  (pssst, don’t eat Jeffy’s eggs). Dave LaCourse

i’m workin on lasagna this year…hmmm…now, lemmesee, where’s the bacon grease… jeff

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In the Great State of North Carolina, it is unlawful to desecrate the body of the dead.  Furthermore, anyone who *smears* the dead aunt onto a fly pattern is just plain sick!!

Umm, Rosanne Rosannadanna, that’s "ant".  Not "aunt", "ant". Regards, Jeff

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My God man, don’t unbuckle that wader belt up wind! Fishing tip for the day:  A fisherman in neoprenes with a tight wader belt can be used to replace a punctured pontoon if you feed him enuf Burro Chilli.  Hint: ensure he is secured with a slip knot for easy release and to allow for expansion.                                     Frank Reid

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Joe Fleischman writes: I know I’ve mentioned this here before; but it’s been a while, so here it is again.   The state regs in MD used to have a simple clause for artificials-only water, "if it smells like bait, it is bait." Joe F. Well hell, Joe!  I guess I can’t fish in my favorite waders.   Hmmmmm, come to think of it, they don’t smell like bait, they smell Dave

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Folks, In the Great State of North Carolina, it is unlawful to desecrate the body of the dead.  Furthermore, anyone who *smears* the dead aunt onto a fly pattern is just plain sick!!

If you just hold it close to aunt Bea, though, it’ll pick up some of that gravy smell and that should work. — Charlie…

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Folks, In the Great State of North Carolina, it is unlawful to desecrate the body of the dead.  Furthermore, anyone who *smears* the dead aunt onto a fly pattern is just plain sick!! Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know I’ve mentioned this here before; but it’s been a while, so here it is again.   The state regs in MD used to have a simple clause for artificials-only water, "if it smells like bait, it is bait." Joe F. If your gonna smear dead ants all over your fly then why not just hook a dead ant on the thing.  For that matter, why not dispense with the extra furry junk and just use the ant?  Let’s see, worms will hang on a hook easier than ants.  How about just using a worm and a big ball of strike indicater about 2 feet up the line?  Add to that a one piece bamboo "fly" rod and you have something which sounds familiar. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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You’ll have to ask Al for sure, but I think Tupper just wears big ol’ cotton panties…

Gee thanks.   That’s a visual I could have done without.  :-) Joe F.

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Nice post.  The only thing I would question is the part about lateral lines left out of the fly fishing definition – I think everyone agrees a muddler minnow is a fly, and part of its appeal is supposedly that it gives off enough vibration to get a trout’s interest. Anyway, I think part of the reason some people are attracted to fly fishing is to challenge themselves to fool trout.  The less real the "bait/fly" is, the more challenge there is in the deception.  The more real it is, the less challenge.  How much people care to challenge themselves in this respect seems to be a very personal thing.  The more natural the whole *scenario* is, the more challenge.  Some people will set up a chum line of real beetles to be followed by their own beetle imitation.  I don’t know how legal that is, but it’s not entirely natural. Knowledge is power.

– Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

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Golly, Forty, only you and I made IJ’s celebrity  list this time around.  That underware stuff — is that like Tupper-ware?

You’ll have to ask Al for sure, but I think Tupper just wears big ol’ cotton panties… — Charlie…

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My breakfasts at the clave are eaten by all with much gusto and no complaints.  

Never knew you were the cook at Tooties (where I ate *my* clave breakfasts)<g. — Charlie…

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Knowledge is power. I like to know things about fish behavior. I often try things just to see what will happen. Once my experiment is finished, my new experimental technique may or may not become a steady habit. But I seldom regret trying something once. There is a lot to be learned from bait fishing for instance. Years ago–when it was still legal to fish with sculpins in Montana–I used to go sculpin fishing once every two or three years. If you use barbless hooks and set the hook when you first detect the strike, you get to return the fish unharmed, if you choose to do so. More important, in a few short hours of sculpin fishing you can learn about large brown trout behavior what might take a lifetime of fishing with flies. I used bait fishing to make myself a better streamer fisherman. You can learn a lot about riffle feeding behavior too–by fishing with live nymphs. The feedback rate (the number of fish you catch) is so great you learn more in a very short period of time (when you fish with live nymphs). When fishing with live nymphs doesn’t work, for instance, you know the fish are asleep. You learn to recognize those times, and not to waste your time. When the fish *are* on the feed, you can catch so many more fish in such a short period of time, you don’t have to work with hunches anymore. You quickly learn how to size up a riffle: to know where the big ones lie and how the little ones line up behind. You learn how much weight to use, how much slack to throw, and how and when to wait for the strike. You can learn all of those things from fly fishing too, of course. But you learn it slower, over a much longer time period, and you reach conclusions with far less confidence when fly fishing—-because the feedback rate is so slow. We do what we want. I choose to bait fish occasionally because I learn from it. I fly fish frequently because I prefer to fish that way. PUNCHLINE:    The line between bait fishing and fly fishing can be substantially obscured.  I’ve been making soft-bodied, open-cell foam nymphs for years. They’re good looking nymphs. Because they’re soft, fish don’t spit them out. They swim around chewing on soft nymphs, which makes it easier to detect the strikes. With soft foam nymphs, you don’t necessarily get more strikes, but you definately feel more of them happen.   Then, the other day, while fishing in the Madison canyon, I found a fat golden stonefly nymph under a rock. I killed it on a whim: I crushed it up and squeezed the resulting paste into the body of a soft foam nymph. I rolled the soft foam nymph back and forth in the palm of my hand, in a puddle of bug paste. That (open-cell foam) nymph, at that point, became equally effective as a live bait. But I could cast it as far as my fly rod would reach. I caught one fish after another in a riffle I had been working steadily and unsuccessfully foam nymph, but without the bug paste. Now I’m not suggesting anybody else should do anything like this at all. But this is interesting information. Fish detect their prey by: 1) eye sight 2) by detecting vibrations with their lateral line 3) by smell. And smell, I think, is the most powerful attractant of all. Now that I think of it, perhaps fly fishing (for those who worry about categories and definitions) means fishing with a fly rod in a way that only targets the piscatorial visual cortex: IE with no help from the lateral line, nor from the (fishes) olfactory system. For those of us who enjoy breaking the rules occasionally (but still like casting with a fly rod), you can also target the lateral line–with lightweight fly rod wigglers. And you can target the olfactory system too (and still do long distance fly rod casting) by fishing with soft foam nymphs……and bug paste. — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://nervana.montana.edu/~sandy  */

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Question:

I will give you the name of my best friend (is that Major, Chips?) Sir.  He is Phil Camera.  Give him a call.  He is a fly fisherman.  719-473-5478 – Tell him George sends his love. Phil knows Colorado as good as any man alive and he knows where to take you fishing. Mr. G. looking for a fishing partner in the colorado springs area, fly fish and spinner fish do both, please contact me

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Question:

I’ll be in Livingston, MT in early Aug. I’d like to know if there are places to fly fish near town? I’ll probably be in the Comfort Inn. I’m not looking for trophies, just easy access and some fun. I’d like to be able to give the family the car so I can fish. Is there fishing in walking distance to that part of town? I’ve never been there, so I need advice.

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I’ll be in Livingston, MT in early Aug. I’d like to know if there are places to fly fish near town? I’ll probably be in the Comfort Inn. I’m not looking for trophies, just easy access and some fun. I’d like to be able to give the family the car so I can fish. Is there fishing in walking distance to that part of town? I’ve never been there, so I need advice.

Hi Gerys The Yellowstone River flows right through town and good fishing often can be right at your back door. If close access is your goal then try fishing around the channels near the 9th St bridge, up or down stream from Mayer’s Landing, or Carter’s Bridge (about 2 miles south of town). Good luck & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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Question:

This is really addressed to manufacturers and fly shop owners/operators. Are there any trade publications geared to the fly fishing industry? I’m familiar with all of the consumer titles, but would be interested to find out about any trade/industry titles. Thanks for your help.

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‘Fly Tackle Dealer"  Contact the people at ‘Rod & Reel’. A.J.Thramer

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Hi Owen If you happen to fly through Sydney Nebraska,

Question:

 I am interested in fishing the Grande Ronde (S.E. Wash.),has anyone out there have info ? Thanks L.H.

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I am interested in fishing the Grande Ronde (S.E. Wash.),has anyone out there have info ? Thanks L.H.

My friend, Chris Pasley fishes it every year. He fishes October and March.  He uses #8 October Caddis dries in the fall.  In the spring he uses bright attractor flies. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Question:

I know this has been posted before but I can’t find my copy of the file.  Can anyone let me know where the NF outlets are (I’m mainly interested in the SF area) and when they might be having another sale?                         Mucho,                           Kevin

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I spent a few days in Baxter (actually Millinocket) last summer.  Baxter camping sites are reserved well in advance; doubt you can get in for this summer, maybe shoulder season like Sept. will work better.  Appalachia Trail’s ends (or begins depending upon point of view) at top of Katadin; maybe you can hike in and camp along trail?  I know the trail goes by a nice river at the border of  the park and the Golden Road; don’t know about other fishing venues.  Hope this helps.

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I would like to possibly spend a week or two at Baxter this summer. Information on good solitary tent sites and fly fishing possibilities would be much apreciated.                 Thanks,

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Question:

On short _backpacking_ trips, I often like to carry in a bunch of good food….I really out did myself by overstuffing an expedition backpack for a three day trip.  

Of course, the best gourmet food isn’t that which is packed in.  On a backpack last August in the Holy Cross Wilderness, our first-night’s meal was cutthroat trout panfried with "scaly urchin" mushrooms.  Too bad it wasn’t berry season, or we would have had a fitting dessert for our wilderness-gathered meal. — /    "How to Lose Weight, Increase Your Sex Appeal and Make a Fortune on the   _][  Information Superhighway" would outsell the Bible, at least briefly.

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        I like using a combination of Freeze Dried Food, MREs,         homemade trail mix and lots of beef jerky flavored with         cyan pepper.         I like adding kool aid, gatorade, instant coffee General         International Foods coffee, and Milk man packets.         A lot of the items are repackaged to save on weight and size.         -Dave         AT&T Denver

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I’m a simple eating soul as well.  Oatmeal in the morn,…

I think basically most people who travel are this way.  It can vary with the required travel distances.  Usually, I go for simplicity, but a couple weekends ago I poached salmon while others dug snow caves, but that was a short ski in (note in winter you can afford to take frozen foods on short trips, etc.).  A favorite climbing partner of old was a great cook, and he could carry the weight to help. However, on longer trips, you would do best to read some of the experiences of some major expeditions and the importance of food and morale.  Read Snyder’s Hall of the Mountain King and the defending White Winds (comments about chili), locate accounts of the 1971 International Everest Expedition (all menu planning done by a vegetarian who brought in half a ton of a type of pumpernickle bread which only he would eat, and that was merely one food). The occasional elaborate meal is fine, but that’s not quite the purpose for being there.  If you want fine dining, stay in the big city. Remember, rule number 1 on a big, long trip: NEVER offend the camp cook.

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well since u asked heres my $0.02 worth- i usally hike with a guy who is a weight freak the lighter the better, our trips vary in length 2-14 days and take place in all seasons and all over the place, our favorite so far is the wind river range.  anyway im more of lesiurely kinda guy and prefer to take a bit more weight to enhance the atmosphere food wise.  so i always get tea and something good to eat in the morning, but im not below a pop tart as long as it’s toasted and the frosted kind, but lunches are a big deal so into the pack goes smoked, vacumed sealed salmon, smoked goda(sp?) chese, red onions, and bagels. dinners are alos good i mean its fun to laze around camp cooking up a storm after a good day hiking with some killer fly fishing thrown in, so we bring along freeze dried tortellini, spices, small 6oz cans of tamoto paste,  lentils, rice some other groovy things, lots of chocolate, and of course to top it all of as much single malt scotches that we can carry. oh my goodness i think im ready to hit the trail.  but anyway u light weighters or no hassle cooking folks should try the other route sometime cooking forces u to slow down and drink it all in.  u don’t have to cook or eat at camp, maybe next to a nearby lake/stream, or out on a cliff with a view then u split up the chores from night to night and the drugery isn’t so bad.  sorry for being so long winded.                                                    later,                  relax, don’t worry have a home brew!

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ENMfoods on short trips, etc.).  A favorite climbing partner of old was a ENMgreat cook, and he could carry the weight to help. On short _backpacking_ trips, I often like to carry in a bunch of good food (as long as it it doesn’t take too long to prepare–don’t want to cut into day hiking and swimming opportunities) and more than the usual assortment of luxury items and gadgets.  On one trip, about fifteen years ago, I really out did myself by overstuffing an expedition backpack for a three day trip.  My partners dubbed me "Piano Man" (as in piano mover) for my ability to haul all that weight up a mountain, and the name stuck.  Now, whenever I don a pack in their presence (even a day pack), I am immediately transformed into Piano Man.  Kinda like Clark Kent and his sky blue tights, I suppose. <G ENMThe occasional elaborate meal is fine, but that’s not quite the purpose ENMfor being there.  If you want fine dining, stay in the big city. I am reminded of the camp I past on the fifth morning of a Sierra trip.  There was a sprawling camp by the side of the trail with a new three-man tent in its center.  The campers were apparently still asleep, but I felt as though I had gotten to know them just the same: the pair of crystal wine glasses and the empty bottle perched on the edge of a large fire ring seemed as easy to read as any face. Gotta admit: there ain’t any restaurants in the big city with that kinda atmosphere. . . . ENMRemember, rule number 1 on a big, long trip: NEVER offend the camp cook. Even if he serves moose turd pie, right? <G —  * SLMR 2.1a * Visualize whirled peas.

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I’m a simple eating soul as well.  Oatmeal in the morn, 10 oz. of trail mix for snacking all day, four sailor boy flat biscuits and either peanut butter or cheese for lunch, and rice, noodles or potato based dinner with dried lentil, split pea, or black bean soup from the organic grocery, all melded together with parmesian and different strong spices.  On longer hikes I carry about 3 lbs per day of food, and for anything less than two weeks around 2 lbs.  

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I enjoy getting fancy at camp for dinner after a long strenuous day in the wilderness.  Part of the pleasure is the illusion of "invulnerability" while in the woods.  I have even been known to drag along some home brewed beer. (See "Beer in the woods…"  elsewhere in this conference.) OTOH, I belive breakfast should consist of boiling water for coffee and oatmeal, rinse the dishes and hit that trail before 9:00 am.                 And There is the Problem My wife’s idea of a pleasant vacation requires a leasurly four course breakfast, complete with lots of dishes.  While I’m chomping at the bit to get up the mountain before the temperature hits 90, she is just getting her pancake flipping technique down. — David M. Weaver    San Francisco State University   School of Business

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I’m a little more extreme than you, in that I no longer see any point in cooking.  I’d rather save the weight and not have to wash dishes and pots.

Now I’m curious!  What do you take for calories that lets save wieght and carry NO pots and pans?  Must be short trips. Have you been in the high altitude (10-14k) without serious carbos, protein, etc.? I spend 7-10 days in a place like the Wind River Range and if I don’t carry serious food I’m too week to hump it.  My pack usually starts out about 75lbs. and drops to about 60.  I do wish I could figure out a way to eat enough calories without having food take up 20% of pack weight.

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I like it both ways.  I bring a lot of powerbars & ramen for the trail and some good dishes for camp.  I eat so much it might as well be good.   I like dishes that are simple to fix and taste good (and to heck with the weight) A few favorites: Pasta with cheese and sun-dried tomatoes,

Yup, sun dried tomatos are fantastic.  I add them to the water right away then add the pasta, reice, lentils or whatever.  Add some spices and freeze dried vegies and you an make just about anything.  I’m not vehetarian, but I find the taste and texture of FD Tomatoss to be a very good meat substitute. Very highly recommended! Tortellini with pesto (get the fresh pasta and pesto at the supermarket, it’s easy as a TV dinner)

If you pack the sause in a nalgene the morning of the trip, you can lug it in. makes for a great first night dinner.  Good sauses are really hard to make from dry ingredients.  I’m always looking for good sauce recepies for the trail. Fried Rice with fresh fish

When you can catch’em<g. Pancakes  - Nothing like flipping cakes on a mountaintop all morning.

Generally, too fuel consuming, time wasting, but pure heaven!  If you try bringing a few eggs along they will really spiff up the cakes.  I like to make them extra thick and put orange pieces in them.  Cook very slow with butter.  Make big pot of coffee ahead of time, to while away the time.  Sometimes we even pack up early and get going so we can stop for the ultimate pancake breakfast.  Can make an high point to any trip. Grilled cheese sandwiches – yum! Regards, Kelly

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| This is a subject that I have always wanted to bring up. For me eating is | just something I do to fuel my body on the trail. I don’t make a big deal | out of it, the simpler the better. For breakfest I eat outmeal, snack on | GORP or powerbars through out the day and then usually have some rice and | ramen soup for dinner or a dehydrated meal in a bag. All my cooking | consists of boil water, add, wait a little then eat. If I am just going | for a overnighter or 2 night trip I sometimes just buy a couple of pizzas | wrap them up and snack on cold pizza all weekend. | I’m a little more extreme than you, in that I no longer see any point in cooking.  I’d rather save the weight and not have to wash dishes and pots.

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This is a subject that I have always wanted to bring up. For me eating is just something I do to fuel my body on the trail. I don’t make a big deal out of it, the simpler the better. For breakfest I eat outmeal, snack on GORP or powerbars through out the day and then usually have some rice and ramen soup for dinner or a dehydrated meal in a bag. All my cooking consists of boil water, add, wait a little then eat. If I am just going for a overnighter or 2 night trip I sometimes just buy a couple of pizzas wrap them up and snack on cold pizza all weekend. Now I have packed with ppl who basically eat just as well in the backcountry then they do at home. Different dishs everyday, spices galore, etc…. It amazes me sometimes. I just like to keep it simple and light, no extras needed. This is me, what aabout you? I am just curious of all the different how, what, whys etc. of others in this group. Sean (who would never bake a cake then make a cup of capachino (sp?) in the backcountry)

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Well, I’m with you on this one.  For me, the simpler the better, but I can see the benefits of bringing a gourmet along.  Generally, when I camp, I’m concerned with the weight of my food, and that’s it.  It’s not because I wouldn’t want to eat well, it’s just that I’m lazy.  Also, I guess that eating poorly appeals to my romantic vision of hiking/camping.  You know, roughing it.  Burning a hot dog on a stick seems more appropriate than breaking out the fois gras.  Seems stupid, huh?

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: This is a subject that I have always wanted to bring up. For me eating is : just something I do to fuel my body on the trail. I don’t make a big deal I am exactly the opposite:  I enjoy preparing elaborate meals on the trail. In part, this is because I’m from New Orleans.  Food is more than just fuel here, it’s a way of life.   Partly, it’s just the challenge of figuring out how to accomplish the seemingly impossible:  baking biscuits on a backpacking stove or producing a cheesecake in the deep woods. Another reason:  I’m a Scoutmaster, and much of my camping is done with Boy Scouts.  An essential element of the Scouting program is that the *boys* plan the outings, including the menus.  Left to their own devices, they would have pop-tarts for breakfast, candy bars for lunch, and canned spaghetti for dinner.  Being a strong believer in letting them run their own program, I don’t interfere when they plan their menus.  I *do*, however, try to set an example.  When they are eating their canned spaghetti, they are watching me enjoy my fruit salad, jerky stew, and fresh-baked biscuits.  I make enough to let them all have a taste, but not enough to feed them a meal.  On the *next* trip, guess what they want to eat? Another factor:  The areas where we camp have a tremendous supply of firewood, and it’s a lot easier to prepare an elaborate meal with a campfire than with a single-burner stove. — "In the old days, being crazy meant something.                I don’t speak  Nowdays, EVERYBODY’S crazy."                                 for Tulane.                             — Charles Manson

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Question:

: Recently I have begun to do some offshore racing outside the San Francisco Bay  and I now need to buy my own offshore harness.  I’ve been advised that a : a self-inflating harness is the best way to go. : However, I work the foredeck. : Some people say that you really have to submerge these harnesses for them : to inflate, others say that they’ve had them inflate when they are piled : in with other wet gear for a period of time. I’ve used the belt inflated life jacket for about 3 years now.  Normal maintanence requires that you inflate them once a year at least.  If you do that the unit will not inflate until it is under water for a time. If you don’t inflate it regularly it may more may not inflate when you need it.  The CO2 cartrage will discharge over time so you want to replace it yearly to be on the safe side.  If you inflat it put it under water to check for leaks.  A unit that isn’t repack once in a while will be more likely to be holed. I’d say get you’re own equipment.  Also look at the line that connects the harness to the boat.  You may want different lengths for different boats. I’m currently running my jack line from the cochpit around the babystay and back.  This way I can walk around the mast and back if I don’t like the seas on the low side etc.  As this line floats up I can run a very short line.  If I have crew up there on the foredeck helping I need more line. I find line length effects productivity up there.  A short line that is long enough to do the job doesn’t get tangled, stepped on or removed because it’s in the way.  You can make a long line short by splicing your own end and feeding a bunge cord through it. For fore deck work I would recomend getting very creative with this jack line.  If you don’t you will find yourself up there removing it to untangle yourself etc. As for the clip for a jack line they put some pretty user unfreindly line connectors on some of the harness.  I’m devided as they must have a reason but I end up using carbeners because they are easy to work with going in and out of the cabin.  Basicly if I don’t have to think about it I find I connect myself.  If I have to fiddle with it I catch myself unconnected. Another thing to look at on a harness is storage.  I know this sounds strange but the ‘right’ place to put a wistle and a water prouf flash light is on the harness.  It’s been measured that you can blow a wistle in cold water when you can’t yell to flag another boat down. I have the personel strobes but the helogen flash lights (small ones using the AA batteries) can be pointed right at the boat you’re trying to flag down.  These little guys are bright and last a good long time. I also have more faith in a light I’m using often to one that is stored and never used but to test.  Tests don’t give you a feel for the battery life etc. As a fordeck person I hope you know never to go up there without a good sharp knife.  This could save your life someday if you ever get wrapped. I started doing this years ago never needed it but if it’s blowing hard you may not be able to communicate you’re arm being broken to the guy behind you. — AST Research Inc.          (714) 727-8669

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In practice it’s actually very rare for foredeck crew to be "hooked in" while working the foredeck of a competitive race boat. They hook in while sitting on the rail or trimming, but being tethered during a jibe or sail change would be problematic. *Some* crew hook in during these maneuvers at night, but this is rare, in my experience. Even singlehanded, it took practice to learn how to jibe the spinnaker while hooked in. For a full crew to jibe an ocean racer with all their tethers attached would be chaos.   Your first defense against being lost overboard (after holding on tight, that is) is a good life jacket and a personal strobe and whistle. Maybe a backup waterproof flashlight, too. I’m very strict about wearing this equipment offshore. The harness, in the vast majority of weather conditions you’ll encounter off the coast, is going to be far too encumbering to allow you to race the boat effectively. I have an old North vest which I love because it has nice deep pockets for the strobe and other stuff (and it served well when I survived a sinking, the Bird boat FALCON in 1989 Master Mariners, in the middle of SF Bay). If I were shopping for a new lifejacket I’d probably favor one of the Stearns fishing models, because of the multiple pockets, and the high degree of freedom of motion they offer. Having said that, you still need a harness for the times that the weather is *really* bad, and especially for the long time intervals between maneuvers when there’s no efficiency lost by being hooked on. So my preference is for a single-purpose shoulder harness, of a fairly simple design that can be sorted out and put on in the dark while you hold on with the other hand. It’s important that the tether have good, oversized (expensive) shackles at *both* ends, so if you find yourself tangled in something you can re-lead from your end. Also consider using some nylon rope instead of the webbing for the tether. A cleat hitch around the nearest cleat is generally more reliable than a carbiner through a pad eye, and you can adjust the length of the teather to be no longer than what you really need. BTW I don’t think much of caribiners for this application, because they have to be closed to develop full strength. (my tether has a very large torsion-spring gate-type snap hook on the far end, and an equally oversize "fly-away" type spinnaker sheet shackle (about what you’d find on a 40′ boat) at my end.                                              -"Call me Fishmeal"-

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Some people say that you really have to submerge these harnesses for them to inflate, others say that they’ve had them inflate when they are piled in with other wet gear for a period of time.

My experience is that on a long wet trip e.g. sailing from Hawaii back to California, the self-inflating life jackets always trigger. My suboptimal solution has been to remove the self inflating cap, spring, and tablet, but leave the CO2 cartridge and the manual trigger pull tab. Stan Honey San Francisco

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|   | Some people say that you really have to submerge these harnesses for them | to inflate, others say that they’ve had them inflate when they are piled | in with other wet gear for a period of time. |   | My experience is that on a long wet trip e.g. sailing from Hawaii | back to California, the self-inflating life jackets always trigger. | My suboptimal solution has been to remove the self inflating cap, | spring, and tablet, but leave the CO2 cartridge and the manual trigger | pull tab. On the other hand, my experience with a Crewsaver, Crewfit lifejacket is that it has never inflated when I haven’t wanted it to, and has inflated when needed.  I have been out in conditions when I would have expected it to trigger and it hasn’t. I suspect that the tendency to trigger "accidently" depends on the particular lifejacket.  The self inflating capsule on the Crewsaver is well protected by the folded lifejacket and this may not be the case in other designs. Marion Edwards

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Recently I have begun to do some offshore racing outside the San Francisco Bay  and I now need to buy my own offshore harness.  I’ve been advised that a a self-inflating harness is the best way to go. However, I work the foredeck. Some people say that you really have to submerge these harnesses for them to inflate, others say that they’ve had them inflate when they are piled in with other wet gear for a period of time. I would appreciate anyone else’s feedback and experience on this before I spend some money. Thanks for the help, Allison Serventi

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