Question:

Went fishing last weekend up north on a river near the Estonian border, and spent the night at a little B&B where the proprietor was genuinely suprised that I didn’t catch anything, as he assured me the stream was full of browns. I explained my newbie status with a fly rod, and he looked in my nymph case, told me my pheasant tails and hare’s ears should have worked if I dead drifted them down deep in the holes, as the wind was blowing the the dries would have been useless since the fish don’t rise on windy days. So all this week, I planned for my return. I headed out of work at the bell on Friday, stopped at my local FF shop and got some lightweight intermediate sink leader, a few more nymph-looking things, and drove the 1.5 hours up to the river again, turned off onto the woods road, locked in the 4WD hubs, and headed out to the same stretch of stream. As I was getting rigged up next to the truck about 1/4 mile from the stream, I was getting eaten alive by mosquitoes; worst I’ve seen since the Maine woods, so I beat feet to the stream side,, quickly waded out to midstream to lose the bugs, and started drifting my new beadhead nymph. After a few dry casts, I was sure I had spooked the fish while quickly wading out deep, but then something flashed past my head, and landed on the water just about 3 feet in front of me. Something greenish-brown, about the size of a silver dollar. Something I had never seen before, but instantly recognized. At this moment I had a 3-fold revelation. First, seeing my first mayfly was like that surge of recognition you get when you first see the Grand Canyon or the Statue of Liberty. Its been in a million picture books, and you may think you know what it is, but when you see your first one, you realize you were wrong. I actually said out loud, to no one but the river. "Ohh!!! So THATS a mayfly!!" Then a huge swirly rose right under it, and it disappeared in a surge of fin and back, and I realized the second and third revelations: trout aren’t so spooked by someone walking right into their livingroom as I thought, and today was a day to be fishing dries that look like mayflies (duh!). Actually, I had a fourth revelation: I didn’t have any flies that looked like mayflies!! However, I did have a few upright wings, including ‘the magic fly’ (see a previous post); a deer hair caddis that was the right color, almost. If I had a tying kit, I know I would have run back to the car just then, and tied up a bunch of perfect colored mayflys on the spot (revelation five: THATS why people tie their own flies!) So I tied on the caddis, and cast it about where the trout rose. Strike (and a miss). Cast right there again.,,another rise (and another miss). Cast a third time, no reaction. Revelation five: two strikes and you’re out. The fish learn fast. I worked that spot for awhile, then eventually waded my way downstream. Although I only brought a few 8" browns to hand, I knew that a slightly more skilled fisherman would have landed some monster trout, as they were rising for the mayflies all over the place. In fact, I could use the drying mayflies as indicators: if I saw one sitting on the water being left alone, I didn’t even bother casting there. But often when one flew down close to the water, I could cast right there and get a rise every time! I even was getting very clever with my casts: at a certain distance, the fly line would land on the water while the fly was at the top of the turn-over, and the fly would just stall out at the top of the circle, then drop straight down like a falling mayfly. It brought up a rise every time. In fact, for about 2 hours, I got strikes on almost every cast! It was great! Later, I learned that most of my strikes were smaller browns, or those damn local coarse fish. Thats when I got revelation #6: the big fish are very picky, and can tell an deer-hair caddis from a mayfly. And revelation #7: if you don’t keep your standards high, you will get lured into fishing for the little ones (since they are striking) rather than focusing on what it takes to get the bigger ones. So anyway, I got to see my first bonafide mayfly hatch; now I know what all the hype is about. I’m gonna start carrying some realistic looking mayflies with me just for the next time this happens! OBNewbie question: HOW can you entice the big fish to strike without getting all pecked apart by those damn tiny fish? This particiular stream has probably 200 tiny fish per cubic meter of water, and they mess with everything you toss out. riverman

Response:

<SNIP OBNewbie question: HOW can you entice the big fish to strike without getting all pecked apart by those damn tiny fish? This particiular stream has probably 200 tiny fish per cubic meter of water, and they mess with everything you toss out. riverman

Congratulations! Sounds like you had an excellent time. You must concentrate on the big fish Often you can get an impression of the size of a fish, by watching the rises. Large fish displace more water, and the "swirl" is a good indication. If you are catching smaller fish, then you are doing things right, but larger fish are inevitably far more careful. That is how they got large in the first place. Lastly, during mayfly hatches ( Ephemera danica, and similar, which I assume you mean); http://www.bioimages.org.uk/HTML/P46868.HTM it often pays off to try a largish nymph instead of a mayfly.  The technique is to allow the nymph to swing slowly across. where you saw the rise, and then either pull slowly on the line, or raise the rod. This imitates a nymph rising to hatch, and is often irresistible to trout. Also, larger fish always command the best feeding positions. You must consider what you think the best position is, and cast to it. Best of all is of course seeing the fish. When dry fly-fishing, you must always wait for the fish to turn down, before setting the hook. Striking too soon will simply pull the fly out of his mouth.  This is very difficult for "newbies". When the fish takes, count "One hundred, two hundred", and then set the hook.  This will seem like an eternity, and if it is a big fish your hands will shaking, a strange sort of dementia will have gripped you, and every muscle in your body will be screaming "STRIKE!!". Resist them! TL MC

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Some of these might be of help to you; http://www.mayfly.com/tips.htm http://www.flyfishingconnection.com/feedingpatterns.html http://www.flyfishamerica.com/ArticlesReports/GeneralArticles/Kustich… rout/KustichLargeTrout.html and for flies for E.danica etc http://www.algonet.se/~sjostran/English/10134.htm http://figen.com/flyfish/trysil98.html http://www.billmcilroy.freeserve.co.uk/WET%20%20MAYFLY%20PATTERNS.htm http://www.uky.edu/~agrdanny/flyfish/dryfly.htm http://freespace.virgin.net/fly.fishing/mayfly-yellowdrake.html http://www.hookhack.com/dries.html For a massive pattern index, and lots of other interesting stuff; http://home.netc.net.au/~gnaylor/flies.htm Large olive/yellow coloured hackled flies with a bit of orange in them, have always done well for me, and are easier to cast than winged imitations. TL MC

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[Book of Revelations snipped] Sounds like a fun time. As Mike says water displacement often gives away a bigger fish … fishing afternoon/evening rises, which it sounds like you were, should carry over after dark.  Often thats when the bigger fish will come out to feed … especially in hard fished water.  Best part is the fish are twice as big after dark … or at least they feel that weigh. Steve

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Excellent! — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

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At this moment I had a 3-fold revelation. First, seeing my first mayfly was like that surge of recognition you get when you first see the Grand Canyon or the Statue of Liberty. Its been in a million picture books, and you may think you know what it is, but when you see your first one, you realize you were wrong. I actually said out loud, to no one but the river. "Ohh!!! So THATS a mayfly!!" Then a huge swirly rose right under it, and it disappeared in a surge of fin and back,

— Tight lines! / Roger Daytime engineer Lifetime flyfisherman For info on flyfishing in Northern Sweden visit http://home.bip.net/angler/

Response:

<snipped lovely report OBNewbie question: HOW can you entice the big fish to strike without getting all pecked apart by those damn tiny fish? This particiular stream has probably 200 tiny fish per cubic meter of water, and they mess with everything you toss out. riverman

Did you try squinting? They might look bigger.. ) Herman

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Question:

Walter got hold of some bad shine.  Brain has to be fried. Just to clear this up for those of you who don’t know or refuse to see it. Read the first two posts of the thread: Re. WARNING: CLEANING A 555 FLY LINE

http://makeashorterlink.com/?T2F0528D – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you do not understand why Walt is upset, then you will never understand what propriety is, what good manners are, or the basic tenets of civility. Dave

Response:

Didn’t catch the whole flame, or even how it got started, but WOW! I go away for a week and find that someone’s beloved grandmother(s) got flamed?! I didn’t put the bullet in the vise, and you stop talking about my grandma! (For anyone who remembers Bill Cosby’s classic first comedy album.)

Nope.  Don’t remember that one.  Before my time. Walter got hold of some bad shine.  Brain has to be fried. gg

Response:

Well, my grandma (my mom’s mom) was quite a fisherman (oops, I guess that would be fisherwoman…) – she took me fishing all the time when I was a wee lad. Not only could she catch fish, she always had the amazing ability to stifle even the most obnoxious bullshitter. She was sacred indeed …

Grandma Lottie (on my mother’s side) was also one of those people whose memory evokes many stories.   She grew up on Maryland’s Eastern Shore and eloped with Clarence when she was sixteen, beginning what had to have been a hard life of farming, raising a passel of kids (all girls but one), and raising chickens. From my earliest childhood memories, they raised chickens in two long houses behind the house.   Trips to the farm almost always included dinners of fried chicken (and still the best dumplings in memory).   We never had any illusions of where the food came from; grandpop chopped off the heads right there in the dirt lane, and that night’s dinner would flop around the yard for a few strange minutes before being carried into the kitchen.   What’s for dinner?  Chicken. It was a rare ocasion that Grandmom left the farm to come to Baltimore; but when she came, we tried to show her "the big city".   We took her to one of the better restaurants in town, where there were nearly a hundred menu items; pork, veal, beef in the meat entrees; shrimp, scallops, fresh fish, under the seafood heading; a dozen different sausages (it was a German family restaurant).   After her sheltered existance on the farm, we had hoped to offer up a variety of tastes.   Instead, she tucked her napkin under her chin & ordered – fried chicken.  :-) Joe F.

Response:

my father’s mother, oma winter, was a fine german lady full of warmth, kindness, and love. she dressed and healed my opa’s wounds following the kaisers war. she collected twigs in the forest during the day so that opa, my father, and my uncles, horst and walter, would have warmth at night. she was the force that directed the family to america in 1922, leaving the depressed fatherland for a better dream….. and a better life for her three sons. she guided the winter family through ellis island with her meager english….. and further guided the family to their new home in cleveland, ohio. she toiled for a pittance in cleveland factories whilst opa searched for decent work. opa eventually found work in an oldsmobile plant, and the family began to have the graces of a better life. oma nearly died of heartbreak, when in the early 30’s, my uncle walter was fatally injured when he slipped and fell….. broke his neck training on the rings…. gymnastics. i, the first born, am named by my father in honor and memory of him. oma loved baseball. in 1954, being a long time indians fan, she had a ball signed by the world series indians. she sent it to father to be given to me as a gift…. the year i was born. i still have that baseball…. it means so much to me. when opa retired from oldsmobile, he and oma retired to clearwater, florida. i have wonderful memories of visiting with them as a child……. playing on the beach… picking and eating fresh oranges and grapefruits in the backyard. eating fresh baked buttercougan. opa died of old age in the early 60’s and my father moved oma to miami to be with us. oma passed away shortly thereafter….. i’ll never forget the tears passing from my father’s swollen eyes….. never. so mr. gherke, consider this fair warning. for the vitrolic slight of yours in an earlier thread today concerning my beloved and sorely missed grandmothers (shall i bring up ma-ma bryant?)…. plane tickets are cheap… and i am now your worst fucking nightmare. hope to see you on the henry’s fork…. sweet dreams, Walter Garett Winter ps…. this is EOT

Response:

Sir, in the finest of Southern tradition, may I offer to be your Second? — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – my father’s mother, oma winter, was a fine german lady full of warmth, kindness, and love. she dressed and healed my opa’s wounds following the kaisers war. she collected twigs in the forest during the day so that opa, my father, and my uncles, horst and walter, would have warmth at night. she was the force that directed the family to america in 1922, leaving the depressed fatherland for a better dream….. and a better life for her three sons. she guided the winter family through ellis island with her meager english….. and further guided the family to their new home in cleveland, ohio. she toiled for a pittance in cleveland factories whilst opa searched for decent work. opa eventually found work in an oldsmobile plant, and the family began to have the graces of a better life. oma nearly died of heartbreak, when in the early 30’s, my uncle walter was fatally injured when he slipped and fell….. broke his neck training on the rings…. gymnastics. i, the first born, am named by my father in honor and memory of him. oma loved baseball. in 1954, being a long time indians fan, she had a ball signed by the world series indians. she sent it to father to be given to me as a gift…. the year i was born. i still have that baseball…. it means so much to me. when opa retired from oldsmobile, he and oma retired to clearwater, florida. i have wonderful memories of visiting with them as a child……. playing on the beach… picking and eating fresh oranges and grapefruits in the backyard. eating fresh baked buttercougan. opa died of old age in the early 60’s and my father moved oma to miami to be with us. oma passed away shortly thereafter….. i’ll never forget the tears passing from my father’s swollen eyes….. never. so mr. gherke, consider this fair warning. for the vitrolic slight of yours in an earlier thread today concerning my beloved and sorely missed grandmothers (shall i bring up ma-ma bryant?)…. plane tickets are cheap… and i am now your worst fucking nightmare. hope to see you on the henry’s fork…. sweet dreams, Walter Garett Winter ps…. this is EOT

Response:

Walter got hold of some bad shine.  Brain has to be fried.

Just to clear this up for those of you who don’t know or refuse to see it. Read the first two posts of the thread: Re. WARNING: CLEANING A 555 FLY LINE If you do not understand why Walt is upset, then you will never understand what propriety is, what good manners are, or the basic tenets of civility.   Dave

Response:

She sounds like a great woman! Funny, my Grandma married a Clarence also… he was a wonderful man who also loved fishing, and did alot of hunting. We had many a dinner of venison, wild pheasant, quail, rabbit and squirrel… just to name a few. Grandma was somewhat diversified in her cooking, as long as she had her large, black, cast iron skillet with the renderings of last night’s meal in it. Fresh vegetables were a mainstay, which included her kick-ass dandelion greens. Her and I would go "out in the country" for a ride to collect the greens, then stop at the local farmer’s stand to get whatever veggie we needed – I usually talked her into corn. The day before we planned on going fishing, she would take me to the county dump to stock up on red worms. That place always had the healthiest looking red worms around, and the price was right… if you could stand the smell. I really miss those days… — SaltyWaders PS… Grandma’s sister-inlaw was named Lottie – another great woman who loved fishing!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Grandma Lottie (on my mother’s side) was also one of those people whose memory evokes many stories.   She grew up on Maryland’s Eastern Shore and eloped with Clarence when she was sixteen, beginning what had to have been a hard life of farming, raising a passel of kids (all girls but one), and raising chickens. From my earliest childhood memories, they raised chickens in two long houses behind the house.   Trips to the farm almost always included dinners of fried chicken (and still the best dumplings in memory).   We never had any illusions of where the food came from; grandpop chopped off the heads right there in the dirt lane, and that night’s dinner would flop around the yard for a few strange minutes before being carried into the kitchen.   What’s for dinner?  Chicken. It was a rare ocasion that Grandmom left the farm to come to Baltimore; but when she came, we tried to show her "the big city".   We took her to one of the better restaurants in town, where there were nearly a hundred menu items; pork, veal, beef in the meat entrees; shrimp, scallops, fresh fish, under the seafood heading; a dozen different sausages (it was a German family restaurant).   After her sheltered existance on the farm, we had hoped to offer up a variety of tastes.   Instead, she tucked her napkin under her chin & ordered – fried chicken.  :-)

Response:

Didn’t catch the whole flame, or even how it got started, but WOW!

Heck, don’t feel like the Lone Ranger Salty.  I didn’t catch the whole flame either! George

Response:

Didn’t catch the whole flame, or even how it got started, but WOW! I go away for a week and find that someone’s beloved grandmother(s) got flamed?!

I didn’t put the bullet in the vise, and you stop talking about my grandma! (For anyone who remembers Bill Cosby’s classic first comedy album.) — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Walt Winter writes: I will be there, Walt, waiting for the village idiot to "bitch slap" me like he promised.  You hold my jacket and I’ll hold your’s.  Shouldn’t take too long….. if he shows, that is.  

Just a note, I won’t be a wearing a jacket in case some dumb fucker tries to start shit around my campfire.  You guys can go about 22.455861 feet from my campfire and do whatever the hell you want though. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

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Didn’t catch the whole flame, or even how it got started, but WOW! I go away for a week and find that someone’s beloved grandmother(s) got flamed?! What the hell happened here?! I guess I am probably better off not knowing and should keep my nose out of this… but is the topic here still fly fishing? I hope so… I really like this place. BTW, family folk are sacred in my book… — SaltyWaders "Old eyes can see salt flies…" [snip some great family memories...] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – so mr. gherke, consider this fair warning. for the vitrolic slight of yours in an earlier thread today concerning my beloved and sorely missed grandmothers (shall i bring up ma-ma bryant?)…. plane tickets are cheap… and i am now your worst fucking nightmare. hope to see you on the henry’s fork…. sweet dreams, Walter Garett Winter ps…. this is EOT

Response:

Salty Waders writes: BTW, family folk are sacred in my book…

And, they are sacred to all but one. Dave

Response:

Too bad for those who choose to belittle someone’s folks. Well, my grandma (my mom’s mom) was quite a fisherman (oops, I guess that would be fisherwoman…) – she took me fishing all the time when I was a wee lad. Not only could she catch fish, she always had the amazing ability to stifle even the most obnoxious bullshitter. She was sacred indeed … — SaltyWaders "Old eyes can see salt flies…"

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Salty Waders writes: BTW, family folk are sacred in my book… And, they are sacred to all but one. Dave

Response:

my father’s mother, oma winter, was a fine german lady full of warmth, kindness, and love.

<snipped really good read The way I see it, anyone can insult me all they want; it’s like water off a duck’s back. When they start insulting family, it’s a different matter – and the story here is the best example why. No one has the right to trample on these kinds of memories. I’m with ya, Walt. FWIW, Tim

Response:

Walt Winter writes:

<warm memories snipped for brevity hope to see you on the henry’s fork…. sweet dreams,

I will be there, Walt, waiting for the village idiot to "bitch slap" me like he promised.  You hold my jacket and I’ll hold your’s.  Shouldn’t take too long….. if he shows, that is.   Dave

Response:

What Winter:  (Since you can’t spell my name correctly . . .) I really don’t care about your family history right now but when you think you can go around and insult me or others with impunity, you’re sure fire crazy! You’re memory is about as far as your next step.  Next time you insult someone, why don’t you keep the thread with the insult you find offending with your story?  That way, everything stays in sync.  Frankly, I don’t have the slightest idea what the hell you’re talking about.  Whatever I said, you probably deserved it.  Leave your family out of it. George Gehrke

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Tell you what Walter.  Just come to the Western Conclave.  I know  you won’t come because unless someone else will pay your way.  You can’t afford much more than crossing the county line once every five years and this is only if you can hitch hike. Walt?  You’re all mouth.  There isn’t a man in all of Roff that I fear. Respect is another word all together.  Just remember this Walt.  Don’t start this nonsense.  I won’t start any fight with you or anyone else but I’ll sure enough finish it.  You can put me in the hospital and when I get out I’ll come after you again and again until the day I die.  Understand?  You don’t know what a nightmare is all about.  Don’t fuck with me and don’t threaten me or anyone else here in the West. Now then, that said . . . being a gentleman is an entirely different matter for you.  You don’t see me going out of my way insulting you, or Tom Brown, or Wayne Harrison, or Zimmerman, or Jeff Miller, or anyone in North Carolina,  but you did that to me.   I don’t do that.  It is YOU who has the loose mouth.  Go back and see what you said before you start this crap? Walt?  Go fuck yourself. Gentleman George "not guilty" I just don’t think your grandma deserves you.

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Question:

I went in midaugust.  Pretty slow.  Lost one fish and two missed strikes in 2.5 days of fishing.  A friend caught 4 fish in 3 days, and a guy who was a bigtime flyfishing bum and former snake river guide had three. check with doaks for latest. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking for info on the Atlantic Salmon run on the Miramichi River in New Brunswick this September. How are the fish running ? I was suppose to go this week but a bad back problem prevented me from going. — Regards, Robert E. "Bob" Buckley Norwich Lincoln Mercury

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I fished it once for a week in early October. Caught one small fish. My guide told me that his favorite time was the first two weeks of July. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com   Robert,   Have a look at the angling reports on Doak’s website,   http://www.wwdoak.com/open.htm   A bit of salemanship in some of the wording, but the reports and pictures very probably accurate.   Regards,   Yuji Sakuma     Looking for info on the Atlantic Salmon run on the Miramichi River in New     Brunswick this September. How are the fish running ? I was suppose to go     this week but a bad back problem prevented me from going.     —     Regards,     Robert E. "Bob" Buckley     Norwich Lincoln Mercury

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Looking for info on the Atlantic Salmon run on the Miramichi River in New Brunswick this September. How are the fish running ? I was suppose to go this week but a bad back problem prevented me from going. — Regards, Robert E. "Bob" Buckley Norwich Lincoln Mercury

Friend sof mine are on th eMiramichi this week. You can find up to date information at http://www.salmonanglersonline.com/index.html Enjoy Tom. — Thomas Hackmann "Live simply, so that others may simply live." To reply delete XPLEASENOSPAMX from email address.

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Looking for info on the Atlantic Salmon run on the Miramichi River in New Brunswick this September. How are the fish running ? I was suppose to go this week but a bad back problem prevented me from going.: This may be a late reply, but I fish the Little Southwest and Northwest Miramichi rivers every weekend.  They have been OK.  The LSW has generally been better.  The Main Southwest by all accounts is full of fish right now.   The water is low, and with a bit of rain the fishing should be great for the last two weeks. JB

Response:

Looking for info on the Atlantic Salmon run on the Miramichi River in New Brunswick this September. How are the fish running ? I was suppose to go this week but a bad back problem prevented me from going. — Regards, Robert E. "Bob" Buckley Norwich Lincoln Mercury

Response:

Robert, Have a look at the angling reports on Doak’s website, http://www.wwdoak.com/open.htm A bit of salemanship in some of the wording, but the reports and pictures very probably accurate. Regards, Yuji Sakuma – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking for info on the Atlantic Salmon run on the Miramichi River in New Brunswick this September. How are the fish running ? I was suppose to go this week but a bad back problem prevented me from going. — Regards, Robert E. "Bob" Buckley Norwich Lincoln Mercury

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Question:

Hi, I came in the other day through deja.com and found, in the BMW forum, 373 listed replies to that thread… as I clicked through some of them, I was transferred through many different newsgroups, including one for Sega Dreamcast, one for Fly Fishing, and who knows what all. Today I see the same thread but with only 16 replies listed. Can someone enlighten me as to what’s going on?  Why is this thread flowing through a bunch of different newsgroups, and how did it get into the BMW forum? Thanks for any info, —John * Sent from Novell Discussion Forums http://novell.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Seemed to have been a kid looking for attention by making redneck comments about a news story.  He posted it on a bunch of threads…..none appropriate.  It became obvious that only ignoring it would make it go away.

Response:

Thanks for the reply, Ed. What I still don’t understand, however, is why clicking through the thread moves me into *entirely different newsgroups*. Clicking on reply after reply, I find myself in different forums, no Does anyone know how this is possible?  Why don’t I see *only the parts of the thread that are posted in the BMW forum*? –John * Sent from Novell Discussion Forums http://novell.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for the reply, Ed. What I still don’t understand, however, is why clicking through the thread moves me into *entirely different newsgroups*. Clicking on reply after reply, I find myself in different forums, no Does anyone know how this is possible?  Why don’t I see *only the parts of the thread that are posted in the BMW forum*? –John * Sent from Novell Discussion Forums http://novell.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Are you doing this through remarq?  Maybe it’s an option they have that sorts by thread and transcends groups.  That might actually be a cool thing to look at. Doug Mount

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Hi Doug, Go in through this link, which is to deja.com’s usenet service, click on the "White Trash" thread, then go down a ways and click on replies… you’ll find yourself in different forums as you continue to go down through, although deja says there are [at the time I looked] 660+ replies as shown on the BMW board… http://x68.deja.com/[ST_rn=fs]/viewthread.xp?thitnum=1&mhitnum=0&toffset=0&CONTEXT=967322458.27 6496431&frpage=threadmsg_if.xp&back=alt.autos.bmw&rok=1 I wrote to deja.com asking about it, but never got a reply. —John * Sent from Novell Discussion Forums http://novell.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

Well, whatever was up with that thread, it no longer shows up on deja.com/usenet/’s alt.autos.bmw listing — just as well. I suspect a software glitch at deja or some malicious thread tampering, but since it’s gone now, perhaps I’ll never know. —John * Sent from Novell Discussion Forums http://novell.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Question:

If you’ve got a message, or information which may be of interest to fly fishers in Louisiana, please post it to the Louisiana Fly Fishing web site bulletin board at www.laflyfish.org/laff/bboard.

Response:

Sorry, make that http://www.laflyfish.org/laff/bboard/wwwboard.html. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’ve got a message, or information which may be of interest to fly fishers in Louisiana, please post it to the Louisiana Fly Fishing web site bulletin board at www.laflyfish.org/laff/bboard.

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Question:

:   : Fishing Company and we have the Fly Tech waders in our online catalog at : I have been hearing good things about these waders and suspect that they I bought a pair of Fly-Techs 2 summers ago, looking for low-cost, light wieght pack waders. These were *junk*! The seam broke on the second use — the store took them back and said every one they sold ripped rightaway. They sent what they had left back, and will not stock FlyTech stuff again. I definitely wouldn’t buy these mail-order. But I’m just relating my experience; perhaps others have had better. Because of the boot-foot’s popularity in hunting, etc., you can get decent (though heavy) boot-foot waders at a reasonable price (my Red Balls are still going strong). But I’m still searching for some stocking-foot waders FRU (For the Rest of Us)… JonCook.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – :   : Fishing Company and we have the Fly Tech waders in our online catalog at : I have been hearing good things about these waders and suspect that they I bought a pair of Fly-Techs 2 summers ago, looking for low-cost, light wieght pack waders. These were *junk*! The seam broke on the second use — the store took them back and said every one they sold ripped rightaway. They sent what they had left back, and will not stock FlyTech stuff again. I definitely wouldn’t buy these mail-order. But I’m just relating my experience; perhaps others have had better. Because of the boot-foot’s popularity in hunting, etc., you can get decent (though heavy) boot-foot waders at a reasonable price (my Red Balls are still going strong). But I’m still searching for some stocking-foot waders FRU (For the Rest of Us)… JonCook.Jammerlab

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Rich, In response to your inquiry about boot foot vs stocking foot waders I prefer the bootfoot waders since my waders pull double duty for waterfowl hunting. I am always concerned about losing a boot when encoutering the muck associated with waterfowling. I am a representative of Champion Fishing Company and we have the Fly Tech waders in our online catalog at http://championfishing.com I have been hearing good things about these waders and suspect that they will be a good seller for us. Both stocking foot and boot foot waders are offered in both 3.5 and 5 mm weights as well as wading boots for the stocking foot waders. If you are interested in the Champion Fishing Company business opportunity check out my website at http://members.aol.com/blind10691/index.htm or e mail me for more info and a copy of our 200 page print catalog. Happy Fishing, Brett Lindsey

Brett,      I just pulled up "http://championfishing.com" and I was at the "Kerrville Telephone Company’s I-NET service" web page.  You may want to have someone look into this. However:    http://www.championfishing.com seems to work fine. Brian

Response:

Hi Rich, In response to your inquiry about boot foot vs stocking foot waders I prefer the bootfoot waders since my waders pull double duty for waterfowl hunting. I am always concerned about losing a boot when encoutering the muck associated with waterfowling. I am a representative of Champion Fishing Company and we have the Fly Tech waders in our online catalog at http://championfishing.com I have been hearing good things about these waders and suspect that they will be a good seller for us. Both stocking foot and boot foot waders are offered in both 3.5 and 5 mm weights as well as wading boots for the stocking foot waders. If you are interested in the Champion Fishing Company business opportunity check out my website at http://members.aol.com/blind10691/index.htm or e mail me for more info and a copy of our 200 page print catalog. Happy Fishing, Brett Lindsey

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I fish exclusively in southern chile. I used to fish with boots. not anymore. shoes are far more pleasant to use than boots. I use Hodgman shoes and like them. That is my experience. Others may disagree. Mario http://www.inteligente.cl/Clientes/Sur_de_Chile/sur.html

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Fished in bootfoot wader for years and its time for a new pair.   Before I make the plunge for new ones would like to hear some of your opinions on which kind to buy (boot or stocking) as I can only afford one pair.  Also any comments on brands, types and/or styles would be appreciated. Thanks Rich

Hi Rich, Boot foot waders are very fast and easy to put on and are warmer in extreme cold. Great for certain situations. Stocking foot with lace up boots give you better foot protection and stability for hiking on streams. In our store in California we sell  99% stocking foot waders. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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How about durability ? I have owned a pair of Orvis stockingfoot for 5 years, I have used them a lot, and as a result there is still some neoprene between the patches and the aquaseal, I believe. Anyway, I have notices that even though I use gravel cuffs, I tend to get leaks in the foot area, because of friction between the boot and the wader (it is unavoidable, the shoe is flexible, thus there is friction). I am wondering if bootfoot waders are better from the viewpoint of leaks, or if they develop leaks at the joint between the wader and the boot. -Vittorio – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fished in bootfoot wader for years and its time for a new pair. Before I make the plunge for new ones would like to hear some of your opinions on which kind to buy (boot or stocking) as I can only afford one pair.  Also any comments on brands, types and/or styles would be appreciated. Thanks Rich Hi Rich, Boot foot waders are very fast and easy to put on and are warmer in extreme cold. Great for certain situations. Stocking foot with lace up boots give you better foot protection and stability for hiking on streams. In our store in California we sell  99% stocking foot waders. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Fished in bootfoot wader for years and its time for a new pair.   Before I make the plunge for new ones would like to hear some of your opinions on which kind to buy (boot or stocking) as I can only afford one pair.  Also any comments on brands, types and/or styles would be appreciated. Thanks Rich

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Fished in bootfoot wader for years and its time for a new pair. Before I make the plunge for new ones would like to hear some of your opinions on which kind to buy (boot or stocking) as I can only afford one pair.  Also any comments on brands, types and/or styles would be appreciated. Thanks Rich

i think that it depends on what time of year you do most of your fishing and how much walking you do in them.  i would never be without my bootfoots for winter fishing (they keep your feet so much toastier, and are so easy to get in and out of)  since you already own a pair you know the one major drawback is that they are a pain to dry out, from taking a cold water dunking or sweat.  in warmer weather i wear stocking foots, but am thinking of getting some bootfoots, because they are so much easier to get in and out of.  one other thing, if you have bad or weak ankles, bootfoots may not provide you with enough ankle support.  i would recommend quiet sport or bare waders.  both have great reputations.

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Best advise don’t buy rotten/cheap wading shoes….get the Borger shoe company that makes them ….sorry no address in WI somewhere…Millwaukee? Anyway once in awhile they have seconds which are of the high end boots like Simms, Streamline as they won’t wear any better or worse than any of the others. use a pair of nlyon Hodgeman’s about $40…..again 3 years old just died due to barb wire…….Cabela’s neoprenes are $90 aren’t bad……Mike — Enter the WWW fly tying contest by visiting my web site:http://www.commonlink.com/~Midwestflytying

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Fished in bootfoot wader for years and its time for a new pair. Before I make the plunge for new ones would like to hear some of your opinions on which kind to buy (boot or stocking) as I can only afford one pair.  Also any comments on brands, types and/or styles would be appreciated. Thanks Rich

I find that stockingfoot/boot combo feels more secure and gives me better ability to cope with uneven river bottoms in the current. However, I keep my first pair of bootfoots around for use in the salt, so I don’t have to worry about corrosion of grommets, etc. on the boots. By the way, I got a pair of Danners, which are kind of pricey, but certainly not as much as a good pair of hiking boots. If you like to get into strong current from time to time, I would highly recommend trying a pair on. The Danners feel like good athletic shoes compared to some of the stiffer wading boots. I have seen an ad for a wading shoe by Bare that looks very similar in construction to the Danner, and may have the same benefits. Fish on, Allen

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Question:

I am new to fly fishing and plan to begin by fishing near some property I own in East Branch, NY.  I have the basics to begin (I think). Any suggestions on some good fishing sites in the area. I am just of exit 90 on Route 17. Thanks Jim

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What do mean East Branch , NY ?  Is it near the East Branch of the Delaware?  If it is you should be pretty happy.  Just don’t expect to catch too many fish too soon.  It is very technical(hard) fishing and the trout are used to their meals being served on a silver platter.  Yur fly and cast need to be near perfect.  Try Fish’s Eddy to start with . Gordon I am new to fly fishing and plan to begin by fishing near some property I own in East Branch, NY.  I have the basics to begin (I think). Any suggestions on some good fishing sites in the area. I am just of exit 90 on Route 17. Thanks Jim

– Flyfish NC http://www.planet-nc.com/flyfishnc/ Striped Bass on the Roanoke River, Hybrids on Jordan Lake, Largemouths on surface.  Pickup and dropoff in Research Triangle Park

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Question:

That should be a great time to fish the ‘Horn and it’s not that far of a drive from Denver.

Out west, "not that far of a drive" means you can get there in a day. The Bighorn is at least an 8 hour drive from Denver, probably closer to 10.  It’s a fine river, but a 3 day trip would mean 2 long days of driving for a single day of fishing, on a river where wade access is VERY limited. Also, the Bighorn doesn’t have a true "runoff" period, but the flows can and do go up considerably during May and June, making it that much harder to wade. Any decent fly (or tackle) shop in Denver should be able to direct you to something much closer.  There are plenty of lakes and tailwaters a couple hours’ away from Denver that should be fine. CQ

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That should be a great time to fish the ‘Horn and it’s not that far of a drive from Denver. I will be in Denver May 20th for 5 days,  where could I drive to for fishing not blown out by run off.  Any ideas??? You’ll need a very fast car to get you up to Montana and back and to throw in some fishing if ya only have 5 days…nearest fishing in MT would be the Big Horn..and it might not be "blown out"

– Brian D. Nelson, Missoula, Montana Montana Flyfishing and Hunting Outfitter http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm http://www.montana.com/dno/hunt.htm

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: I will be in Denver May 20th for 5 days,  where could I drive to for : fishing not blown out by run off.  Any ideas??? The southern hemisphere? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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: I will be in Denver May 20th for 5 days,  where could I drive to for : fishing not blown out by run off.  Any ideas???

Go to the Platte River Cemetery at Deckers which is Tailwater below the dam.  There is also South Park.  Better you than me.  I hope you have a good time. Mr. G.

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I will be in Denver May 20th for 5 days,  where could I drive to for fishing not blown out by run off.  Any ideas???

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I will be in Denver May 20th for 5 days,  where could I drive to for fishing not blown out by run off.  Any ideas???

You’ll need a very fast car to get you up to Montana and back and to throw in some fishing if ya only have 5 days…nearest fishing in MT would be the Big Horn..and it might not be "blown out"

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Question:

I want to get into fly fishing in the surf off of Southern California. Plan to use an 8 wt…..what is a good line to use? I was thinking something like the Teeny T-300….any advice? Thanks in advance.

Response:

I want to get into fly fishing in the surf off of Southern California. Plan to use an 8 wt…..what is a good line to use? I was thinking something like the Teeny T-300….any advice? Thanks in advance.

The T-300 is a great line.  I have a HiD "big game" Triangle Taper that I like alot.  The biggest issue is that as a beginner you will probably fish better with a sinktip, as controlling a full sinking line in the surf is not exactly easy.  It gets under your boots and around your legs much more frequently, and until you learn to handle it you are out of touch with your flies alot of the time.  If you already own the T-300 just learn to use it.  But if you also own a 13 to 20 foot high speed sinktip, you might want to use that until you get better at line handling. Phil

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I want to get into fly fishing in the surf off of Southern California. Plan to use an 8 wt…..what is a good line to use? I was thinking something like the Teeny T-300….any advice? Thanks in advance.

YOU WILL DO WELL with shooting heads.  In fact, better. Mr. G.

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that is what I call an excellent response. Thank you for being specific about lines and how to. bill

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that is what I call an excellent response. Thank you for being specific about lines and how to. bill

thorough indeed, but it is just one side of a very complex story.  If we are talking short (30 to 45 foot) casts PARALLEL to shore, which is what most beginners and many old timers will be doing in California (North and South), I would still contend that a beginner would be better served with a sinktip than a full sinking line or shooting taper.  As I stated earlier, I rely on full sinking lines, preferring them to Shooting Tapers, since changing line density isn’t important (fastest sink you have is all you need), and that and distance are the only advantages of the shooting taper over a full sinking line.  Line handling problems, the inability to make aerial mends, and finger cuts are all good arguments for avoiding shooting heads whenever possible.  By the way I do use shooting heads extensively for lakes, steelhead, shad, Jetties, rare occasions when I’m casting straight out, and rocky coastal shoreline so I don’t have a problem with them, I just restrict them to where they really shine.  I especially stand by my recommendation to stick with what you already own, rather than run out and buy the new rage thing. Phil

Response:

Perhaps I should explain myself a little better: thorough indeed, but it is just one side of a very complex story.  If we are talking short (30 to 45 foot) casts PARALLEL to shore, which is what most beginners and many old timers will be doing in California (North and South), I would still contend that a beginner would be better served with a sinktip than a full sinking line or shooting taper.

The biggest reason for using a lead head is precisely because so much of the casting is PARALLEL to shore.  When casting parallel to shore you are putting the greatest amount of line against the wave action of the surf.  This is like casting directly across a current.  The current (wave action in the surf) exihibits the greatest influence on the line pushing it sideways and causing a belly in the line.  And of course the waves not only go in, they also ebb back out.  Little time is spent without motion in the surf. Floating line is the fattest and most susceptible to this action.  The good news is you can mend it, the bad news is you can’t mend it fast enough or well enough to compensate satisfactorily for the action unless there is a lot of time between waves.  The sink-tip is only slightly better because at least part of it sinks into the strike zone (sometimes as shallow as 1 1/2 ft, sometimes as deep as 6 to 8 feet or more).  The full sinking line sinks along the entire line which prohibits mending but gets the fly down better than the other two.  The fastest sinking line you have will work the best.   It will be the thinnest and least susceptible to the movement of the surf and you have to remember that salt water is more bouyant than freshwater.  Sinking lines don’t sink as fast in the salt.   The lead head allows you to use 300+ grains of weight in 24 ft of line (as opposed to ~210 grains for 30 feet an 8 wt.) and is much thinner than any sinking line.  More weight and less surface area allows the line to get down quicker and stay in the zone longer especially when casting PARALLEL to shore.  Again, a casting basket makes a world of difference in the frustration factor. Now the news about the expense of one of these lines is that you can make your own for less than $10 or buy one for $12 to $14.  Amnesia for a shooting line will set you back around $3.50.  If you opt for the flat beam running line, it will cost you $7. No more than $21 at the most.   If you don’t want to invest in an extra spool and backing, just remove your floating line from your current 8 or 9 wt. rig and tie on the running line and shooting head.   Probably won’t break the bank and will save you the frustration I went through using all of the lines I have mentioned. As I stated earlier, I rely on full sinking lines, preferring them to Shooting Tapers, since changing line density isn’t important (fastest sink you have is all you need), and that and distance are the only advantages of the shooting taper over a full sinking line.

Even forgetting about the distance, the comparison is not even close.  Even the fastest sinking full line won’t sink or track as well as the lead head.  Their diameter is too large and their weight too little. Bear in mind that the first 30 feet of an 8 wt. floating line weighs exactly the same as the first 30 feet of an 8 wt. type V sinking line.  Higher density lines just have the same weight in less space.  That’s what *density* is all about. Line handling problems,

Casting basket eases the tangle problem and will still keep your fly in the zone longer than full sinking lines even with the occaisional tangle. the inability to make aerial mends, and finger cuts are all good arguments for avoiding shooting heads whenever possible.

Type of line has *nothing* to do with aerial mends.  How and where you move the tip of the rod *after* you make the stop on the forward cast determines where the aerial mend goes, not whether or not it is a full sinking line or a shooting head.  "Aerial mend" means repositioning the the line *while* it is in the air. Finger cuts can be avoided by using saltwater tape or stripping guards on your stripping fingers.  White adhesive tape works OK if you can’t find the specific saltwater stuff.  I also use tape or stripping guards when using a floating line for bonefish.  Part of the problem with line cuts comes from the abrasive nature of the salt in the water.  The thinner running line does aggravate it, but the greater fishing success helps compensate for this. *SNIP* I especially stand by my recommendation to stick with what you already own, rather than run out and buy the new rage thing.

Using whatever you can absolutely beats not fishing, but using the right tool for the job makes a big difference.   Lead core lines have been around longer than modern fly lines, so I wouldn’t call them the "new rage thing".  Casting is the biggest problem most people have with lead heads and if you like I will give some suggestions in another post because this one is already way too long. I don’t mean to sound rude, but I see no reason why someone should go through all the hoops I did to arrive at this solution.  Nonetheless, do whatever you like to do, because you are the only one you have to please to enjoy this sport and you may like to use a different method.  I just think you should give this a try.                                        Hope this clarifies my statements a bit,                                                     Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

I want to get into fly fishing in the surf off of Southern California. Plan to use an 8 wt…..what is a good line to use? I was thinking something like the Teeny T-300….any advice? Thanks in advance.

Up in N. Cal one of the most popular lines for surf fishing is a lead head. This sounds scary, but actually works really well.  You can make your own or buy one from Orvis for $14.  I snagged one of the Orvis heads and then cut it back from 30 ft. to 24 ft. and put a loop on the end I cut off.  Works well on my 8 wt.  I use amnesia for the running line, but am going to try the flat beam running line ($7) that we just got in at the Orvis SF store.  Casting basket is a big help to control the running line.   The reason this works so well is that the lead core tracks far better than anything else in the surf.  Floating lines are real tough because the floating section gets whipped back and forth by the wave action so badly.  Same thing with sink tips.  Sometimes the full sinking lines work ok, but usually their cross-section is too big and gets pushed around by the waves too.  The thin lead core (I believe this is the 13gr. per foot version) sinks quickly in the more bouyant saltwater and stays in the trough or channel longer than other lines.  More time in the target area means more fish.  Not the most fun to cast, but not bad with some practice and very effective.                       Hope this helps,                               Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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Question:

   It’s not just you – I haven’t received anything from FLYFISH either over the last 2 days.  Funny, because the LISTSERV will respond to commands and acknowledge their receipt.  For the moment, I’ve decided I’ll be patient (although I miss my daily fix of fly fishing chatter!).

Me, too.  Although,  I actually got some work done today…   Tim

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hey FLYFISH people, i’ve tried 3 different times, still nothing….. anyone have any ideas on why my subscription won’t take???? thanks, g.

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hey FLYFISH people, i’ve tried 3 different times, still nothing….. anyone have any ideas on why my subscription won’t take????

 Me too – I have sent mail to the organiser of the list and I am  hoping that I will hear from him – a previous attempt to contact him  was unsuccessful. Has anyone on here subscribed recently? I followed  the instructions posted by John Allison to the letter but heard nothing. — Ed Kelly

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: hey FLYFISH people, : : i’ve tried 3 different times, still nothing….. anyone have any ideas : on why my subscription won’t take???? : : thanks, : : : g. There has been some problems at the FLYFISH server.  I sent in several submissions on Wednesday and all were rejected, and I didn’t receive a digest for several days (one finally arrived today).

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: hey FLYFISH people, : : i’ve tried 3 different times, still nothing….. anyone have any ideas : on why my subscription won’t take???? : : thanks, : : : g. There has been some problems at the FLYFISH server.  I sent in several submissions on Wednesday and all were rejected, and I didn’t receive a digest for several days (one finally arrived today).

This doesn’t explain why I can’t get on the list for over 5 months of trying.   I think that I’ve tried everything short of a phone call. Bill

Response:

: There has been some problems at the FLYFISH server.  I sent in several : submissions on Wednesday and all were rejected, and I didn’t receive a : digest for several days (one finally arrived today). : This doesn’t explain why I can’t get on the list for over 5 months of trying.   : I think that I’ve tried everything short of a phone call. Your mailer (or some mail gateway) is probably mangling your return address.  The Listserver automatically picks up your address from the message you sent it.  If you do not get a response from the server when you send the subscription request, that is probably what is happening.  Contact your mail administrator and make sure your mailer is sending out the correct headers. — Information Technology Specialist Hewlett-Packard Test & Measurement Organization Information Technology Colorado Springs, CO

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I guess it is back up now. I am a new subscriber and I am a bit puzzled to see that I don’t receive my own posts. Should I? —

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I haven’t received anything from FLYFISH digest for two days. Is something wrong globally or is it just me? Joe —

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: I haven’t received anything from FLYFISH digest for two days. : Is something wrong globally or is it just me? : Joe         It’s not just you – I haven’t received anything from FLYFISH either over the last 2 days.  Funny, because the LISTSERV will respond to commands and acknowledge their receipt.  For the moment, I’ve decided I’ll be patient (although I miss my daily fix of fly fishing chatter!). Boston City Hospital Boston University School of Medicine

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first off, i’d like to thank all the wonderful  people at the academy that made this all possible, my producer, my mom and dad…. all the little people…. seriously…. may i suggest that you try the following address for subscribing to FLYFISH: and as always… in the body of your message, simply type SUBSCRIBE FLYFISH…. it worked for me….. and thanks again for all the help…. chaio, g.

Response:

Hope this does it for you. Aloha – bob    ooo_ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I guess it is back up now. I am a new subscriber and I am a bit puzzled to see that I don’t receive my own posts. Should I? —

Response:

hey FLYFISH people, i’ve tried 3 different times, still nothing….. anyone have any ideas on why my subscription won’t take???? thanks, g.

It appears the list may be down… I haven’t gotten anyhthing from it for about a week now! —  Joe Ellis         o/~ The Synthetic Filker o/~ |    TesserAct Studios

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