Question:

This week a fisherman in Beaufort Inlet near Harker’s Island reported catching an Octopus on a fly.  He didn’t give out his secret octopus pattern but you can rest assured the guides are already mounting ad campaigns for octopus fishing, Orvis is developing a special octopus rod, and Scientific Anglers  has an octopus line in the works.  This time next year there will be several books out on octopus fly patterns and videos on octopus fly presentations. Have a look at: http://fishmojo.com/cgi-bin/noteboards/harkers.cgi Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!

Response:

This week a fisherman in Beaufort Inlet near Harker’s Island reported catching an Octopus on a fly.  He didn’t give out his secret octopus pattern but you can rest assured the guides are already mounting ad campaigns for octopus fishing, Orvis is developing a special octopus rod, and Scientific Anglers  has an octopus line in the works.  This time next year there will be several books out on octopus fly patterns and videos on octopus fly presentations. Have a look at: http://fishmojo.com/cgi-bin/noteboards/harkers.cgi Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!

Good.  Catch ‘em all and kill ‘em.  Octopi once had a well deserved reputation for being vicious, grasping, and rapacious.  "Scientists" (well known for their comsymp leftist leanings) have gone to great lengths…..some might say EXTRAORDINARY lengths….to "rehabilitate" them in the popular image for some decades now, and with not a little success.  But there are still those of us with a clarity of vision not in the least diminished by the blandishments of our corrupt cognoscenti "comrades".  The careful observer, unfazed by the clamoring and yammering of the proletariat rabble will not be immune to the obvious symbolism of the octopus’s eight slithering sucking arms radiating from a "central governing body", nor to the significance of it’s disgusting and cowardly habit of escaping under the cover of an obfuscating ink screen like so many pinko "journalists", rather than standing up and fighting like a man.  Shit, one good marine could open up a HUGE can of whupass on hundreds of them slimy little clam eating bastards!  And don’t even get me started on them chicom urchins just loafing around on the seafloor when they oughta all be put in a workhouse where they could be doing something productive rather than just sucking on the taxpayers tit, like we did when I was a ki…..um…….well, just DON’T!     Wolfgang i got a list here in my pocket!

Response:

Now there is one taxidermy mount you will never see…..at least nobody’s wife would ever allow it displayed in the home!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This week a fisherman in Beaufort Inlet near Harker’s Island reported catching an Octopus on a fly.  He didn’t give out his secret octopus pattern but you can rest assured the guides are already mounting ad campaigns for octopus fishing, Orvis is developing a special octopus rod, and Scientific Anglers  has an octopus line in the works.  This time next year there will be several books out on octopus fly patterns and videos on octopus fly presentations. Have a look at: http://fishmojo.com/cgi-bin/noteboards/harkers.cgi Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!!

Response:

Wolfgang notes: "Scientists" (well known for their comsymp leftist leanings) have gone to great lengths…..some might say EXTRAORDINARY lengths….to "rehabilitate" them in the popular image…..

<much good humor snipped ….yeah, I think I read about that in the NY Times……or was it the Washington Post?                              Tom

Response:

Geez, Wolfy!  I did not know octopi were that bad, honestly.  Not did I know anyone could have such a vengeance against them.  It makes me look not so bad with my vengeance against grass carp. Please, enlighten me (seriously).  I have never had any kind of run-in with an octopus before.  What do they do?  Are we talking Captain Nemo and "2000 Leagues Under the Sea" kind of bad, or are they harming the fish? I can picture one mounted with its legs straight out and used as a coat rack. Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This week a fisherman in Beaufort Inlet near Harker’s Island reported catching an Octopus on a fly.  He didn’t give out his secret octopus pattern but you can rest assured the guides are already mounting ad campaigns for octopus fishing, Orvis is developing a special octopus rod, and Scientific Anglers  has an octopus line in the works.  This time next year there will be several books out on octopus fly patterns and videos on octopus fly presentations. Have a look at: http://fishmojo.com/cgi-bin/noteboards/harkers.cgi Wayne to fish is human….to release Divine!! Good.  Catch ‘em all and kill ‘em.  Octopi once had a well deserved reputation for being vicious, grasping, and rapacious.  "Scientists" (well known for their comsymp leftist leanings) have gone to great lengths…..some might say EXTRAORDINARY lengths….to "rehabilitate" them in the popular image for some decades now, and with not a little success.  But there are still those of us with a clarity of vision not in the least diminished by the blandishments of our corrupt cognoscenti "comrades".  The careful observer, unfazed by the clamoring and yammering of the proletariat rabble will not be immune to the obvious symbolism of the octopus’s eight slithering sucking arms radiating from a "central governing body", nor to the significance of it’s disgusting and cowardly habit of escaping under the cover of an obfuscating ink screen like so many pinko "journalists", rather than standing up and fighting like a man.  Shit, one good marine could open up a HUGE can of whupass on hundreds of them slimy little clam eating bastards!  And don’t even get me started on them chicom urchins just loafing around on the seafloor when they oughta all be put in a workhouse where they could be doing something productive rather than just sucking on the taxpayers tit, like we did when I was a ki…..um…….well, just DON’T!     Wolfgang i got a list here in my pocket!

Response:

Geez, Wolfy!  I did not know octopi were that bad, honestly.  Not did I know anyone could have such a vengeance against them.  It makes me look not so bad with my vengeance against grass carp. Please, enlighten me (seriously).  I have never had any kind of run-in with an octopus before.  What do they do?  Are we talking Captain Nemo and "2000 Leagues Under the Sea" kind of bad, or are they harming the fish?

Well, aside from their aforementioned leftist tendencies, they seem pretty bastards……they ALWAYS SEEM harmless……till it’s too late! I can picture one mounted with its legs straight out and used as a coat rack.

Yep, oughta have one in the lobby of every VFW and Legion post! Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geez, Wolfy!  I did not know octopi were that bad, honestly.  Not did I know anyone could have such a vengeance against them.  It makes me look not so bad with my vengeance against grass carp. Please, enlighten me (seriously).  I have never had any kind of run-in with an octopus before.  What do they do?  Are we talking Captain Nemo and "2000 Leagues Under the Sea" kind of bad, or are they harming the fish? Well, aside from their aforementioned leftist tendencies, they seem pretty bastards……they ALWAYS SEEM harmless……till it’s too late! I can picture one mounted with its legs straight out and used as a coat rack. Yep, oughta have one in the lobby of every VFW and Legion post! Wolfgang

LOL! Scott

Response:

This week a fisherman in Beaufort Inlet near Harker’s Island reported catching an Octopus on a fly.

I remember being called by my daughter when she was about 13 and we were all snorkelling in greece.  I swam over and she pointed. She, in her mask and snorkel, was staring at an octopus, which, quite clearly, was just as interested and curious as she was. They hovered closer and closer, looked at each other, then the octopus swam away, stopping every so often to look back. I’ve found it hard to eat the critters ever since. Wayne, this of course was post-Junta Greece. The colonels wouldn’t have tolerated the liberal scum in their waters. Lazarus

Response:

I can picture one mounted with its legs straight out and used as a coat rack.

 It could be the center of a mobile,  your other mounted trophies hanging from the tips of it’s tenticals.

Response:

Question:

I will be in Mitchell SD for opening day of phesant season next week. Does anyone know of any good areas near Mitchell that I could do a little fishing?

Response:

4 hours drive to the black hills.  Some trout in the missouri river below the dam (damn?) near Pierre (2 hour drive).  Bass in Lake Mitchell. steve haun sioux falls, sd

I will be in Mitchell SD for opening day of phesant season next week. Does anyone know of any good areas near Mitchell that I could do a little

fishing?

Response:

Just outside of Rapid City are two lovely streams that hold good fish and have excellent hatches.  Spring Creek and Rapid Creek. They are really worth fishing.

Response:

Question:

We are going on a backpacking excursion through SE Asia (Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Brunei, Singapore) for about 6 months. We think that we would like to have a very open itinerary, i.e.-fly to Bangkok, get around however we see fit, and then fly home whenever we’ve had enough. Our options seem to be an open-jaw to a central place like Bangkok, or one of the around-the-world type flights (which may be too restrictive for us). We’re planning everything else well, but are having trouble deciding how to actually fly. Any help or ideas out there? There are so many bucket shops offering deals, it becomes overwhelming. Thanks for all the help we’ve recieved from this newsgroup! Kevin Oppenheimer, D.V.M. and Sandy Raders, D.V.M. To reply by email, please remove "NOSPAM" from address Once you go Mac, you’ll never go back. "The curious thing about fishing is that you never want to go home. If you catch something, you can’t stop. If you don’t catch anything, you hate to leave in case something might bite."

Question:

What does everyone use, if at all, for a thermometer?

Numbers are only necessary for bragging.

Of course, they are! For winter camping only, I like to carry one of those minimum registering thermometers that you lay down horizontally beside your sleeping bag. Makes for great stories when you get home! There are so few of us that enjoy winter camping and most of the people in the office really believe that anyone who sleeps outside in the winter is right off their rocker.

I cycle-comute year round.  When I come in on the bicycle and its -40, I don’t have to tell them anything for them to think I’m off my rocker. On teh home front, since I go solo most of the time, I don’t want them to think I am out in too extreme conditions, so I figgure its better if I don’t know.  "Real cold!" is good enough. — Fight Spam! Join CAUCE (Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email)                  at http://www.cauce.org/  It is there as an experiment to see if email spammers scan content — Pete Hickey               |                         |       VEIWIT University of Ottawa      |                         |      mirrors for Ottawa,Ont. Canada K1N 6N5|  (613) 562-5800×1008    |       dyslexics.

Response:

A note regarding those of us who have Garmin GPS’. Some models are able to display temperature inside the case. This was intended specifically for internal calibration functions, but I’ve found it very accurate. It means letting the unit sit awhile in the environment you wish to measure. It can be accessed by specific combined key-presses. For more info, the following address should be enlightening. http://www.celia.mehaffey.com/dale/secret.htm jr

Response:

Actually we are using this for a couple of reasons. — 1. Fun toy 2. Gathering data for the conditions during igloo building with our Icebox product. We do not feel giving inaccurate info to possible customers is right. It is a very nice unit but overkill for most unless you like gadgets.

I love gadgets. How big is this one, and how much does it cost? Adam Marx "Why must I fail at all my attempts at masonry?"

Response:

The Suunto Vector has a thermoeter that seems to be pretty accurate. Along with the thermoeter, you get an altimeter, a compass, and a timepiece with stopwatch and 3 alarms (for cooking chili).

way kewl. how low does the thermometer read? how much do they cost and where can they be had? Cheaper than dirt sells a little coleman zipperpull, thermometer, compass, windchill chart for $2.97, but from the picture it appears it only goes down to about 0F. http://www.campmor.com campmor seems to have the best selection including digital (reads down to -58F), pen shaped (-50F) and keychain/compass(-30F).

Response:

There are so few of us that enjoy winter camping and most of the people in the office really believe that anyone who sleeps outside in the winter is right off their rocker.

Paul,    Mmmmmm! Don’t the respect feel good? "You gotta be nuts".    Ed Huesers    http://www.grandshelters.com

Response:

I have owned several, and while they may be pretty accurate, they will NOT give you an accurate indication of surrounding temperature until some time (manufacturer’s recommendations vary, but they seem to require at least 20 min.) after they are removed from your body (wrist)

I don’t usually take much note of the temp, but a couple of weeks ago I had my Avocet lying on the ground as I set up camp and cooked dinner. As I was starting to clean up I noticed that the Avocet read 39 F while my water bottle had frozen nearly half way from the bottom (I always prop the bottle upside down). I’d guess that for ice to form in your bottle just about fast enough to see it, it must be near 20. Guess it’s time for servicing, unless they are this innacurate by default. — Spammers NOTE: Your email to me is prohibited except for submissions for my proofreading services, for which my fee is $500 per email.

Response:

What kind of experience do you folks have with digital thermometers? I would think they don’t work very well in cold (like 0 degrees fahrenheit) considering reduced battery output and lcd displays are probably very sensitive to cold temperatures.

Well, it does take a while for the display to display what it is displaying at 0F.  Also, the chronometer loses a bit of time at those temperatures.  After a week at shirt-sleeve temperatures, it’s less than a half-second off.  After three nights at 0F, it’s a second or two off. So, is it better to stick with old reliable liquid thermometers?

Better?  Different.  More reliable?  They are easier to break. — Jim Fuller

Response:

What does everyone use, if at all, for a thermometer?

I used to use a little thermometer, but it was in-accurate. I then realized that I didn’t need that kind of accuracy anyway.  Numbers are only necessary for bragging. I have a few indicators.  Water…  If its liquid it’s above freezing, solid below.    If the trees are cracking from the cold it’s even colder.  Inhale through the nose.  If the nose-hairs freeze together, its quite cold.  The volume of the sound when walking on snow gives an indication as well. All these give me enough of an indication of the temperature for practical purposes. -Pete — Fight Spam! Join CAUCE (Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email)                  at http://www.cauce.org/  It is there as an experiment to see if email spammers scan content — Pete Hickey               |                         |       VEIWIT University of Ottawa      |                         |      mirrors for Ottawa,Ont. Canada K1N 6N5|  (613) 562-5800×1008    |       dyslexics.

Response:

    What does everyone use, if at all, for a thermometer?     I used to use a little thermometer, but it was in-accurate.   I then realized that I didn’t need that kind of accuracy   anyway.  Numbers are only necessary for bragging.   Of course, they are! For winter camping only, I like to carry one of those minimum registering thermometers that you lay down horizontally beside your sleeping bag. Makes for great stories when you get home! There are so few of us that enjoy winter camping and most of the people in the office really believe that anyone who sleeps outside in the winter is right off their rocker. — Cheers, Paul Weiss Personal Home Page: http://www.netaccess.on.ca/~cpweiss/ Quote: "To you, it’s a six-pack … to me, it’s a support group!"            "Don’t take life too seriously … nobody gets out alive!"                                                        

Response:

  We use a kestrel 3000, Wind speed,temp,wind chill,barameter,dew point,   humidity, heat stress index.   This is a very nice unit and very light. I can get temp readings in 5 to   10 seconds.   — Oooohhh … now doesn’t that sound like one sexy toy!! — Cheers, Paul Weiss Personal Home Page: http://www.netaccess.on.ca/~cpweiss/ Quote: "To you, it’s a six-pack … to me, it’s a support group!"            "Don’t take life too seriously … nobody gets out alive!"                                                        

Response:

Actually we are using this for a couple of reasons. — 1. Fun toy 2. Gathering data for the conditions during igloo building with our Icebox product. We do not feel giving inaccurate info to possible customers is right. It is a very nice unit but overkill for most unless you like gadgets. — Guy (Gadget Boy) Menge http://www.grandshelters.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We use a kestrel 3000, Wind speed,temp,wind chill,barameter,dew point, humidity, heat stress index. This is a very nice unit and very light. I can get temp readings in 5 to 10 seconds. Wow!  What are you doing?  Hiking or waxing for an olympic XC ski event? — Fight Spam! Join CAUCE (Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email)                  at http://www.cauce.org/  It is there as an experiment to see if email spammers scan content — Pete Hickey               |                         |       VEIWIT University of Ottawa      |                         |      mirrors for Ottawa,Ont. Canada K1N 6N5|  (613) 562-5800×1008    |       dyslexics.

Response:

What does everyone use, if at all, for a thermometer? I am interested in getting one, a digital readout would be nice……any suggestions?

Response:

What does everyone use, if at all, for a thermometer? I am interested in getting one, a digital readout would be nice……any suggestions?

Temperature, for me, has been more of a curiosity than something I need to know.  On a cold winter morning, I like to say, "Golleee, it’s down to 10 degrees out here." I have had two nice liquid-filled thermometers that came in a plastic case. I broke both of them.  Dropped one, and one broke in the pack.  Right now I have a little liquid filled one about an inch long that is sort of a zipper pull, and I put it on one of my pack zippers.  No problem yet. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Visit  http://members.aol.com/MarvWelte/index.html for backpacking info.

Response:

What does everyone use, if at all, for a thermometer? I am interested in getting one, a digital readout would be nice……any suggestions?

The Suunto Vector has a thermoeter that seems to be pretty accurate. Along with the thermoeter, you get an altimeter, a compass, and a timepiece with stopwatch and 3 alarms (for cooking chili). You can get a reasonably good metal-cased conventional "stream" thermometer at almost any fly-fishing outfitter for less cost. — Jim Fuller

Response:

The Suunto Vector has a thermoeter that seems to be pretty accurate. Along with the thermoeter, you get an altimeter, a compass, and a timepiece with stopwatch and 3 alarms (for cooking chili).

Just one thing about those "wristwatch thermometers."  I have owned several, and while they may be pretty accurate, they will NOT give you an accurate indication of surrounding temperature until some time (manufacturer’s recommendations vary, but they seem to require at least 20 min.) after they are removed from your body (wrist).                   The pen is mighter than the devil’s playground              

Response:

We use a kestrel 3000, Wind speed,temp,wind chill,barameter,dew point, humidity, heat stress index. This is a very nice unit and very light. I can get temp readings in 5 to 10 seconds. — Guy Menge http://www.grandshelters.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What does everyone use, if at all, for a thermometer? I am interested in getting one, a digital readout would be nice……any suggestions?

Response:

We use a kestrel 3000, Wind speed,temp,wind chill,barameter,dew point, humidity, heat stress index. This is a very nice unit and very light. I can get temp readings in 5 to 10 seconds.

Wow!  What are you doing?  Hiking or waxing for an olympic XC ski event? — Fight Spam! Join CAUCE (Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial Email)                  at http://www.cauce.org/  It is there as an experiment to see if email spammers scan content — Pete Hickey               |                         |       VEIWIT University of Ottawa      |                         |      mirrors for Ottawa,Ont. Canada K1N 6N5|  (613) 562-5800×1008    |       dyslexics.

Response:

Question:

So George, you’ve found yet a new way to assert your commercial presence here…by creating new subject lines…make that HEADLINES several times a day? Don’t you have your own chatroom to manipulate? Bastards All & Lovin Them! Gehrke Fly Rods Best Buy in Nation Chat Site Alive and Well! Since February I have tried to see you as an unfairly treated person here. I find no reason to continue trying. Enough is enough. — Jeff Cook http://www.cookstudios.com Washington DC area

Response:

I think I was an early supporter, having ordered a Bastard, 7.5′, #4 back in December. However, I internalized the wisdom of placing that order especially when the ‘reviews’ began to appear here and decided to cancel the order for my ‘Bastard’ on September 30. Without any other comment I just want to say, boy do I feel relieved.

Response:

I think I was an early supporter, having ordered a Bastard, 7.5′, #4 back in December. However, I internalized the wisdom of placing that order especially when the ‘reviews’ began to appear here and decided to cancel the order for my ‘Bastard’ on September 30. Without any other comment I just want to say, boy do I feel relieved.

this.  That you feel relieved is another question regarding you being able to think for yourself is in question with me.  You could have inspected the qualities of a fine fly rod first hand.  That you seem to have ‘a need’ to post such a remark in public, I regard as disappointing as it does not hurt me as much as it does you. A fair man wouldn’t have done this. Why did you do this?  We never did anything to you but work our hearts out for you. christ. Mr. G.

Response:

Just think Allen, you could have seen first hand what a pile of crap his rods are and sent it back.  After all he does guarantee your money back plus a nasty response to any one who doesn’t like them.  Of course you are out $12 return postage, but getting on George’s sh*t list should be worth something.  :-) Ernie Harrison Keep Livestock Away From Our Rivers and Streams. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think I was an early supporter, having ordered a Bastard, 7.5′, #4 back in December. However, I internalized the wisdom of placing that order especially when the ‘reviews’ began to appear here and decided to cancel the order for my ‘Bastard’ on September 30. Without any other comment I just want to say, boy do I feel relieved.

Response:

Just think Allen, you could have seen first hand what a pile of crap his rods are and sent it back.  After all he does guarantee your money back plus a nasty response to any one who doesn’t like them.  Of course you are out $12 return postage, but getting on George’s sh*t list should be worth something.  :-) Ernie Harrison

______  Harrison, you’re very bit of what Doug Knight says you are. None of it good.  This style of post of yours again proves what kind of person you really are and always have been in ROFF. Mr. G.

Response:

Steve, you’re right. I could have waited to check out a Bastard and return it (at my expense) if it didn’t pass inspection. However, I am not a bamboo affecionado(sp?), am not qualified to do a quality inspection, and based my decision on the many defects identified in the reviews ‘Bastards’ have received thus far. As far as posting my cancellation: It appears that ANY constructive discussion/criticism/suggestions about ANYTHING associated with this rod brings forth a venemous assault, i.e. "I Tried a Bastard" by Bob Smith. BTW, have you ever walked into a store intending to buy something and were so offended by what you saw of the interaction between sales and customer that you said to yourself, "forget this", and just turned around and walked out.

Response:

Steve, you’re right. I could have waited to check out a Bastard and return it (at my expense) if it didn’t pass inspection. However, I am not a bamboo affecionado(sp?), am not qualified to do a quality inspection, and based my decision on the many defects identified in the reviews ‘Bastards’ have received thus far. As far as posting my cancellation: It appears that ANY constructive discussion/criticism/suggestions about ANYTHING associated with this rod brings forth a venemous assault, i.e. "I Tried a Bastard" by Bob Smith. BTW, have you ever walked into a store intending to buy something and were so offended by what you saw of the interaction between sales and customer that you said to yourself, "forget this", and just turned around and walked out.

wouldn’t let anyone else do my thinking for me. Mr. G.

Response:

George did everything he could to sell his Bastards (ie. SPAM), take orders and impress us with his genius on this newsgroup.  What goes around come around.  Thus, I think it fair to cancel an order via this newsgroup, even if not tactful. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never posted about the Bastard, but i dont think its fair to say in public that you plan on canceling an order on a rod that you havent seen.  If you have worries about the bastard, its perfectly fine to cancel an order, but to say it in a public forum is just unfairly hurting another person’s business.  Maybe Mr.G’s rods arent perfect but from what i hear, he does have a money back guarantee so you’re not running much risk by at least having it shipped to you to be inspected.

Response:

Just to clarify; I cancelled my purchase of the rod privately, via e-mail, to George on Sept. 30th. My post on ROFF a week later was no different then anyone posting about a broken rod tip, some warranty, some service fee, etc. from any rod, reel, etc. company. BTW, it’s been a long time now but didn’t G post some of the names and number of orders he had? Finally, yes I guess my post may not have been very tactful. I’ll hereby give myself 10 lashes with a wet noodle.

As much as it hurts to say it, I have to agree with George on this one. I have no problem if someone wants to cancel their order but your public statements only point out your preference for bolting with the herd rather than thinking for yourself or just checking it out first hand. Let’s face it. When George started this whole thing it was painfully clear that it was a risk to order a rod from someone that was taking on a fairly demanding technical task for the first time, regardless of what he said. If you didn’t think it was a risk (and the posts at that time made it pretty clear it was) then you were painfully naive. That risk has not changed since the beginning yet you have gotten nervous and bolted at the end. This is still OK by me but what is the purpose of publicly venting your "relief" at this juncture since you have absolutely nothing concrete to add to the debate except to proclaim this herd behavior? I would be embarrassed to publicly advertise that behavior if I were in your position. There have certainly been problems and George has been George. I have read nothing here that is any different than what George has posted since he first appeared on ROFF, so what else is new?! You guys act as if this is all a big surprise. Get real. If you were misled about what it might be like to deal with George on this, I would suggest it was in part done by yourselves and a lust for a new bamboo rod at what was initially hoped to be bargain basement prices. Maybe its time for a reality check and to get over it. As a disclaimer, this post is certainly not a defense of George. Some of the things that have gone on seem reprehensible to me and George is far from pure. Too much said. Jon "sucked into this thread" McAnulty

Response:

Always nice too see the leader of a customer service organization using terms like ‘insect brain’ in a public forum. Especially when its in reference to a potential customer. George, I dont care if your rods are beamed here from God himself … SNIPPED

Exactly my thoughts!  At this point I don’t care how great they might be- I’m willing to skip ever finding out, just so I don’t have to deal with this guy and run the risk of being publicly demeaned. What a freakin’ nutcase. Before you buy.

Response:

…I wouldn’t let anyone else do my thinking for me.

And THIS is a serious problem because you don’t do any of it for yourself either.

Response:

Nice to see the Mrs. has the same accumen. Tom

Response:

I’ve never posted about the Bastard, but i dont think its fair to say in public that you plan on canceling an order on a rod that you havent seen.  If you have worries about the bastard, its perfectly fine to cancel an order, but to say it in a public forum is just unfairly hurting another person’s business.  Maybe Mr.G’s rods arent perfect but from what i hear, he does have a money back guarantee so you’re not running much risk by at least having it shipped to you to be inspected.

It seems to me that the very essence of a public forum such as this newsgroup is to provide an opportunity for anyone to express an opinion; any opinion.  That someone chooses to express an opinion which has a bearing on the central issues covered in this particular newsgroup should not be lamented.  Consider also that the negative reports on Mr. Gerhke’s products undoubtedly do him a lot less damage than does his own behavior in this forum.  Moreover, his incessant peddling of his products here opens the door for responses pertaining to those products even when, as is the case here, those responses are overwhelmingly negative.  ROFF is a community in a truer sense of the word than are most of the cities, towns, and villages in which most of us live.  One of the things which makes this a true community is that the residents, by common if tacit consent, watch out for one another.  This is by and large true despite the vigor with which we sometimes attack one another’s sacred cows.  I am confident that most of the regulars here would warn other members of the community about actual or potential problems with any commercial product regardless of who produces that product.  That one particular purveyor of fly fishing related products chooses to use this forum as his personal marketing outlet should not , and does not, exempt him from the same scrutiny and criticism which any other manufacturer is subject to.  And if his products and his character bring out in public reviews which hurt his business well, what can one say but Tough Shit?!

Response:

Was it Gatlinburg in mid-July, had you just it town and your throat was dry, and did think you’d stop and have yourself a brew?

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Right on John. I first went there in 1931 at age 6. A straw mattress and kerosene lamp. Jack in Nashville.

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Just to clarify; I cancelled my purchase of the rod privately, via e-mail, to George on Sept. 30th. My post on ROFF a week later was no different then anyone posting about a broken rod tip, some warranty, some service fee, etc. from any rod, reel, etc. company. BTW, it’s been a long time now but didn’t G post some of the names and number of orders he had? Finally, yes I guess my post may not have been very tactful. I’ll hereby give myself 10 lashes with a wet noodle.

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Always nice too see the leader of a customer service organization using terms like ‘insect brain’ in a public forum. Especially when its in reference to a potential customer. George, I dont care if your rods are beamed here from God himself or if they truly are the low end of the market. With the defensive, insulting, condescending, aloof and generally surly attitude you take, your business is doomed to fail. If I bought something off of you and decided to return it, and you sent me a nasty-gram along with my refund check, you would regret it for the rest of your business life. Tom.

Response:

George did everything he could to sell his Bastards (ie. SPAM), take orders and impress us with his genius on this newsgroup.  What goes around come around.  Thus, I think it fair to cancel an order via this newsgroup, even if not tactful.

And you’re right, it isn’t tactful. Respectfully, Gladys M. Gehrke Executive Secretary Bastard Fly Rod Company

Response:

every one here knows exactly what they are missing

Response:

every one here knows exactly what they are missing

______ You’re full of it, insect brain.  Along with the other turkeys in Roff just like you. Mr.G.

Response:

I’ve never posted about the Bastard, but i dont think its fair to say in public that you plan on canceling an order on a rod that you havent seen.  If you have worries about the bastard, its perfectly fine to cancel an order, but to say it in a public forum is just unfairly hurting another person’s business.  Maybe Mr.G’s rods arent perfect but from what i hear, he does have a money back guarantee so you’re not running much risk by at least having it shipped to you to be inspected. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

—-snip—- BTW, have you ever walked into a store intending to buy something and were so offended by what you saw of the interaction between sales and customer that you said to yourself, "forget this", and just turned around and walked out.

—-snip—-

Response:

—-snip—- BTW, have you ever walked into a store intending to buy something and were so offended by what you saw of the interaction between sales and customer that you said to yourself, "forget this", and just turned around and walked out. —-snip—-

Gatlinburg! A place I remember with wood sidewalks where I bought one of the finest pair of moccasins I ever owned, real sqaw chewed Cherokee mocs. On the Illinois plains I could fly with them but in rocky terrain were less than ideal. That was 50yrs ago, before all the super interstates and a trip there from Dwight Ill. was an occasion and adventure. Most folks of the area went to Wisconsin or Michigan for pike or musky not to Tenn. for trout. It’s now probably a huge city full of crap and corruption like most of the other places that were peacfull and friendly in my long ago youth.                                                         John Popp                                                      in Sanford Fl.

Response:

George did everything he could to sell his Bastards (ie. SPAM), take orders and impress us with his genius on this newsgroup.  What goes around come around.  Thus, I think it fair to cancel an order via this newsgroup, even if not tactful. And you’re right, it isn’t tactful. Respectfully, Gladys M. Gehrke Executive Secretary Bastard Fly Rod Company

  george, oh i mean gladys (yeah, right), i tried being tactful with your patient, i mean husband. and look where it got me. he comes on here and dumps shit on ANYONE who says ANYTHING that isn’t totally in agreement with his delusions about his rods. the guy is unstable, megalomaniacal,egocentric and a pathalogical liar. i fear for your safety "gladys". if he hasn’t sucked you into his Frostcukoo land beyond all hopes of escape, then RUN Gladys RUN before it’s too late.       bob smith, former weel wisher till i got slammed for trying to tell GG the truth. Before you buy.

Response:

George did everything he could to sell his Bastards (ie. SPAM), take orders and impress us with his genius on this newsgroup.  What goes around come around.  Thus, I think it fair to cancel an order via this newsgroup, even if not tactful.

_______  You don’t know what you’re missing.   Gladys Gehrke

Response:

Question:

In one case a guy went after people in another nearby tent with a chain saw.

Great Caesar’s Ghost!  What happened?  Was the chain saw running?  If it was, he certainly wasn’t trying to be sneaky.    Robert

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goodnight Tokyo Rose: The dolly llama has been shorn. I hear they make great sweaters and the meat aint all that bad too eat either. just remember life is only as big as your wardrobe:)

Response:

Sorry about the misfortune, but as someone stated – it is relatively uncommon. I remember being robbed in the Dublin Youth Hostel. It was a six-bed-dorm and I have put my trekking jacket between me and the wall and it was gone the next morning…boy, I was so mad and disappointed. But out there, it never happened to me and I have done camping all over Europe. I am sure that everybody will keep the core valuables always at the body anyway, right. You need to put the trust in others, or you may prefer to stop doing hikes and that will be a real loss. Relax, hike and keep your eyes open! Tim

Response:

: You’ve got to read more history.  Read about the really old : not-so-good days of the areas you wander through.  Every one of them : has stories of murders, thefts, some have cannibalism, etc.. I agree that the whole notion of the "good old days" is nothing more than selective memory and wishful thinking.  I always wonder exactly when were the "good old days".

                                     snip< Generally agree with both of you. My thinking trends toward the idea that the "good old days" is a myth. Would anyone here consider taking a solo trip on a main highway in medieval Europe?  Not without a prominent display of arms I hope. The further back you look, the worse it was.  Certainly there are many regions today where you still take your chances.  Robbers in Guatemala, Taxi drivers in Mexico City who rob their fares, and fanatic separatists in the Himalaya who have beheaded western trekkers. I still feel safer in the relatively benign North American backcountry than in any large North American city.   – Robert

Response:

I’ve found that anything that charges a fee, however small, to get in is quieter and better behaved than anything that doesn’t.  Anything that has an official occasionally in sight is quieter and better behaved.  Our State Parks are safer than my home neighborhood.  Our State Forests, however, are the one place I’ve had serious trouble and where the formal campsites are ‘party-’til-you-puke’ fav spots for local youth.  That said, I’d still say that most of the State Forest sites are wonderful  and mostly safer than my home neighborhood (is it time I moved?)   General putins for lakes and rivers and popular trailheads in the mid part of the state are iffy.  If there’s a State Park to leave my vehicle in, I’d generally rather paddle a couple of miles extra rather than leave my vehicle at a couple of the putins I’ve tried.  Not had any trouble, but too much of a place that anyone can drive into and more troubled (or partying) youth problems and some extra of weirdos.  There’s at least one place near a fav river that’d be perfect to put my little kayak in at.  Except for the broken beer and booze bottles and the sickening smell of the trash heap that’s occasionally used for bonfires.  I’ve driven down to it, gotten out and looked and driven right away.  Local vehicles might be safe there, but I’m pretty sure mine wouldn’t be.  In fact, when I paddle or hike past it, I never even see local vehicles, which is another bad sign. However, up by the BWAC, I’ve seen trailheads/putins with every yuppie vehicle one could imagine, all looking  perfectly fine except for the dust on some that shows they’ve been there for at least a full week. Down in mid state and lower I’ve left my own vehicle for days at a time with perfect safety and heard little of any problems. Look before you park or camp.  Most places are safe.  Some are obviously not.  Think before you leave your vehicle.  If possible, find out about the local area.  Try asking at the nearest small convenience store.  Look around if there’s any housing nearby.  Does it look as if it costs a bit and is well maintained?  Then they’ll be even more anxious than you for the place to be safe.  Realize that crime, like lightning, can strike anywhere, but it’s got some favorite places.  Try to learn the signs.  If it strikes anyway, try to be philosophical about it if you live through it.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | We have camped for years and never have had an incident, so try to | consider this unusual.  You should be fine if you go to a state park, | private park or National Forest. Alot of the parks have locked gates | now. (you get the combo)  If you "boondock" you stand more of a chance | of being vandalized or tormented.  Be positive about your future plans, | you will enjoy the outdoors, I’m sure. | Happy Trails, | Joyce National Forests are not necessarily "safe". In my state (NH) we have had many incidents of trouble at National Forest campgrounds (some of these being "backcountry" sites), mainly caused by drunkeness. In one case a guy went after people in another nearby tent with a chain saw. Car break-ins at trailheads are extremely common here also.

—– I’m going to live forever or die trying. I only answer my email every few months, on average.   Patience helps.   http://www.visi.com/~cyli

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: You’ve got to read more history.  Read about the really old : not-so-good days of the areas you wander through.  Every one of them : has stories of murders, thefts, some have cannibalism, etc..  Society : is not necessarily becoming something.  You may just be becoming more : aware.  For really good old fashioned fun, read about the old Natchez : Trace.  You’d not have gone near it in its true ‘wilderness’ phase. I agree that the whole notion of the "good old days" is nothing more than selective memory and wishful thinking.  I always wonder exactly when were the "good old days".  Assuming they are supposed to be post industrial revolution… looking at the 1900’s… excluding various wars, the Great Depression, etc, what’s left?  The 1950’s?  Maybe if you were a white male.  In any case, hardly representative of our country’s past. — Dave Hinds

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: How disheartening! : My wife and I have decided to begin camping this year and through recent : Christmas and birthday gifts, accumulated enough gear to be fairly prepared : campers.  This year will consist mostly of car camping, with aspirations to : become backpackers as our experience and skills accumulate. : While the lure of camping and the wilderness are strong to us, the only : concern that we still have is that of being robbed or (worse) harassed by : others.  Your disappointing story only strengthens this concern. : This is a special concern since one of our major motives to camp is weekend : access to great fly fishing.  Plans to do so would have us both a distance : from camp while fishing and no eyes on our site and gear for hours at a : time. : Can any of the experienced members of the group offer suggestions to keeping : our campsite and gear secure to prevent such occurrences?  Of all the : camping & outdoors books we’ve read, none address the subject! I’d reckon the that a brandnew shiny car would be more likely to be broken into than an old heap. —    "do the boogie woogie in the South American way"                            Rhumba Boogie- Hank Snow (1955)

Response:

| We have camped for years and never have had an incident, so try to | consider this unusual.  You should be fine if you go to a state park, | priviate park or National Forest. Alot of the parks have locked gates | now. (you get the combo)  If you "boondock" you stand more of a chance | of being vandalized or tormented.  Be positive about your future plans, | you will enjoy the outdoors, I’m sure. | Happy Trails, | Joyce National Forests are not necessarily "safe". In my state (NH) we have had many incidents of trouble at National Forest campgrounds (some of these being "backcountry" sites), mainly caused by drunkeness. In one case a guy went after people in another nearby tent with a chain saw. Car break-ins at trailheads are extremely common here also.

Response:

We have camped for years and never have had an incident, so try to consider this unusual.  You should be fine if you go to a state park, priviate park or National Forest. Alot of the parks have locked gates now. (you get the combo)  If you "boondock" you stand more of a chance of being vandalized or tormented.  Be positive about your future plans, you will enjoy the outdoors, I’m sure. Happy Trails, Joyce

Response:

Eddie Babin wrote It’s a tragedy it’s come to this where the only person in hundreds of square miles may be one you can’t trust.  I don’t know if anyone has provided any real statistical evidence but it’s my firm belief that you are much less likely to encounter people problems in the backcountry than anywhere else.  As a matter of fact, there’s no place I feel safer.  That, however, does not quell my apprehension about trail head parking. ed

It is pretty shocking to hear about people being robbed in the bush camping. I live in Canada and I have heard about a cabin being broken into but never a tent in a camp site. I often go camping/hiking as far in to the wilderness as I can go and even though I sometimes rarely see other people, when I do I am usually more wary. How sad is society becoming!

Response:

… It is pretty shocking to hear about people being robbed in the bush camping. I live in Canada and I have heard about a cabin being broken into but never a tent in a camp site. I often go camping/hiking as far in to the wilderness as I can go and even though I sometimes rarely see other people, when I do I am usually more wary. How sad is society becoming!

Becoming? I don’t have any reason to think that things are getting any worse. There is a part in each of us, some more than others, who will prey on others and behave opportunistically, particularly when the chances of being caught are virtually zero. Witness rioting and looting in cities after sporting matches, looting when public order breaks down after a natural disaster, and those itinerant cowboys and trappers who carried their heavy, short range 6-guns — they had them, not for fun, but to enforce their understanding of fairness, at least for 50 yards in all directions. Most people in the backcountry, like most people in the city, will treat you pretty generously, and certainly not rip you off. But the risk is always there, so don’t bet your lunch money (or your backcountry survival) on the goodness of your fellow man or woman. — Jeff ORBS Classifieds – Free outdoor classified ads     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs ORBS Escrow – Affordable safety for online buyers and sellers     http://home.pacbell.net/orbs/oe-homepage.html

Response:

You’ve got to read more history.  Read about the really old not-so-good days of the areas you wander through.  Every one of them has stories of murders, thefts, some have cannibalism, etc..  Society is not necessarily becoming something.  You may just be becoming more aware.  For really good old fashioned fun, read about the old Natchez Trace.  You’d not have gone near it in its true ‘wilderness’ phase.

 I sometimes rarely see other people, when I do I am usually more wary. How sad is society becoming!

—– I’m going to live forever or die trying. I only answer my email every few months, on average.   Patience helps.   http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

: While the lure of camping and the wilderness are strong to us, the only : concern that we still have is that of being robbed or (worse) harassed by : others.  Your disappointing story only strengthens this concern. : This is a special concern since one of our major motives to camp is weekend : access to great fly fishing.  Plans to do so would have us both a distance : from camp while fishing and no eyes on our site and gear for hours at a : time. : Can any of the experienced members of the group offer suggestions to keeping : our campsite and gear secure to prevent such occurrences?  Of all the : camping & outdoors books we’ve read, none address the subject! It’s a tragedy it’s come to this where the only person in hundreds of square miles may be one you can’t trust.  I don’t know if anyone has provided any real statistical evidence but it’s my firm belief that you are much less likely to encounter people problems in the backcountry than anywhere else.  As a matter of fact, there’s no place I feel safer.  That, however, does not quell my apprehension about trail head parking. ed — | 21st Century Systems -+- http://www.tf-centsys.com |

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You cached them to keep them from being stolen in the first place, yet you imply your faith/trust in your fellow man is somehow diminished and ask how far you have to go in hiding your cache?  Did you lock your vehicle?  If so, why?

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How disheartening! My wife and I have decided to begin camping this year and through recent Christmas and birthday gifts, accumulated enough gear to be fairly prepared campers.  This year will consist mostly of car camping, with aspirations to become backpackers as our experience and skills accumulate. While the lure of camping and the wilderness are strong to us, the only concern that we still have is that of being robbed or (worse) harassed by others.  Your disappointing story only strengthens this concern. This is a special concern since one of our major motives to camp is weekend access to great fly fishing.  Plans to do so would have us both a distance from camp while fishing and no eyes on our site and gear for hours at a time. Can any of the experienced members of the group offer suggestions to keeping our campsite and gear secure to prevent such occurrences?  Of all the camping & outdoors books we’ve read, none address the subject! Thanks! –Andy Charlotte, NC

Response:

How disheartening! While the lure of camping and the wilderness are strong to us, the only concern that we still have is that of being robbed or (worse) harassed by others.  Your disappointing story only strengthens this concern. Can any of the experienced members of the group offer suggestions to keeping our campsite and gear secure to prevent such occurrences?  Of all the camping & outdoors books we’ve read, none address the subject!

First let me re-inforce what I understood about the original post:   The theift was by, persons who were given to vandelism and thieft. IE: the gate was broken open as well as the items stolen. This is not common, IMHO, to many camping situations.  I have been car camping off and on for 20 years.  I have yet to be victim of a thieft, except by raccoons and squirles who help themselves to unsecured food. I am a car camper and have primarily used state camp grounds which are pretty well petroled.   I also find it interesting that when talk of camping security is brought up, no one seems to be concerned at all about the home they have left miles behind.   It does seem to me that an unprotected house  abandoned for a week or more would be a much easier target than a campsite where people are at had and may re-appear at any moment.  Yet no one is the least bit alarmed by leaving thier home, but fearful nearly to the point of panic about their camp site, or am I just nieve? But the case remains the same, I do not know that their is any absolute safeguard against people who are determined to be criminal. Whether the domicile is permanent or temporary. Fortuantely I choose to believe, and have discovered that criminals are still in the manority {except in Washington, DC }. Regards David Ronk To reply via e-mail remove "not_" from address.     By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer      meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By Sec.227(b)      (1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to      such equipment, punishable by action to recover actual monetary      loss, or $500, whichever is greater, for EACH violation.    Please do not send unsolicited commercial mail to my email account.

Response:

David, Sorry to read about your snowshoe theft at Dolly Sods. I’ve visited there dozens of times without incident (though not in the winter). I hope yours was an isolated incident. I’d suggest that the idiot(s) who broke down the gate may not have been the same ones to steal your stuff. The gate-breaking sounds like the act of some yahoo who’s just pissed off to find a closed road, thinking (wrongly) that he has a right to travel that road. I can certainly imagine that the same dickweed, in his pissed off state, would also be given to stealing someone else’s gear. However, I’d also bet that the sort of loser who would ram a gate with his car couldn’t be bothered to walk 100 feet off road to find your snowshoes–unless they were clearly visible from the road (but sounds like they weren’t). I’m thinking somebody probably just stumbled across them, and thought they were "easy pickings." Again, sorry; and thanks for the warning–I’ll be more careful there in the future. Rob

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January 25th, 1999 This past weekend, John, Jeff and I set out from Maryland on a four-hour drive to Monongahela National Forest, in West Virginia.  Expecting winter weather, John and I brought our new, unused Yuba XSV-32’s, while our friend Jeff brought along some snowshoes that he had rented from REI (just in case anyone hears anything, they were Atlas 1033’s (9" x 29")).  When we got to Dolly Sods on Thursday evening, the final gate on SR 75, about 3 miles from the plateau, was locked.  There were about three inches of wet snow on the road surface, so thinking that there would be more up on the plateau, we strapped snowshoes to our packs and headed up.  Once up on top, a warm wind and melting permafrost greeted us.  We hastily made camp, since we had arrived after sundown, and bedded down for the night.  In the morning, we packed up our gear, took a look at the forecast, and decided to stash the snowshoes.  We chose a location 100 feet away from the road and well shielded by dense pine trees and stashed the

Question:

Currently seeking flyfishing photos and stories for publication and CD Rom Database, and for use in Calanders. Some selection will be used for pen and ink drawings. Paying $5.00 to $500.00 For guidelines and terms send $1.00 P&H to Down-n-The Holler Press 207 W. Sugarloaf Heber Springs, Ar. 72543

Response:

Currently seeking flyfishing photos and stories for publication and CD Rom Database, and for use in Calanders. Some selection will be used for pen and ink drawings. Paying $5.00 to $500.00 For guidelines and terms send $1.00 P&H to Down-n-The Holler Press 207 W. Sugarloaf Heber Springs, Ar. 72543

You expect me to send you a dollar for your guidelines? Not too much chance of that happening. I can understand the need to cover expenses if snail mail was the only way, but what’s wrong with e-mail? If you send ME a dollar I will send you a copy of my terms and conditions for use of my photographs!:-) — Mike Robinson

Response:

Currently seeking flyfishing photos and stories for publication and CD Rom Database, and for use in Calanders. Some selection will be used for pen and ink drawings. Paying $5.00 to $500.00 For guidelines and terms send $1.00 P&H to Down-n-The Holler Press 207 W. Sugarloaf Heber Springs, Ar. 72543

The last time I heard of an offer like this was when someone called me to tell me I’d just won a "fabulous prize".  All I had to do to claim said prize was to give him my credit card number.  <click!  End of conversation. If you’re guaranteeing payment of a minimum of $5.00 for each submission received I’ll be happy to pay you a buck for your guidelines and terms, *plus* I can guarantee a whole flood of stuff will soon arrive upon your doorstep.  If you’ll just guarantee *that* in writing my dollar bill will soon be winging its way to you.  :-) However, since I doubt you’re guaranteeing payment for any and all submissions I think that asking people to pay for your editorial guidelines and payment rate schedule is unlikely to produce much in the way of useful material.  In my dealings with publishers I’ve never had anyone ask for payment for their guidelines.  Perhaps you should reexamine your policy. — Bob Jarvis Mail addresses hacked to foil automailers! Remove ‘_spamless’ from reply address

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what a crock!!!

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Question:

I am looking for a canoe for fly fishing. Any thoughts on the Mad Rive Winooski? Thanks, Paul

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is the winooski the short fat one??  I have an MR explorer and have no problem standing and casting. –

Response:

Yes it is. I am relatively new to canoe an for the type fly fishing (tarpon & snook) in the Everglades backcountry I need all the stability I can get. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – is the winooski the short fat one??  I have an MR explorer and have no problem standing and casting. –

Response:

The Winooski would be an excellent choice.  It is very stable and no problem to stand up in once you get used to the feel of the shallow -v hull.  The only disadvantage of this boat is that, at only 14′  it’s a bit slow; but speed is generally not a big concern of fishermen (the Winooski is however, probably the fastest 14′ boat on the market).  The boat does well with a motormount and small electric kicker. I’d avoid the lightweight Kevlarconstruction for motoring, though – just a bit too light (decreased stability unless you have alot of weight in it).

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Question:

I t is good to see that at least one craft/profession has proven resitant to the mechanization of our society. A fly still bears the indelible signature of the tier. It is too bad that so many of our flies are signed by tiers from third world nations making a pitiful wage who have no hope whatever of legally using the flies they tie. A.J.Thramer Bamboo rod craftsman

I would guess that 90% of the flies purchased in the USA are tied overseas.  If I had to depend on US tiers to supply my store I would have closed up about 10 years ago.  I hope no one will take offense to that statement. Our preseason order with Umpqua Feather Merchants is for 20 thousand dozen flies.  We then fill in the rest of the year depending on how it goes. We also buy some specialty flies from  a half-dozen other sources. They are US tiers. I would love to have all my flies tied by Al Troth, Bob Quigley and Dave Whitlock, but that is impossible. In California, good imported trout flies tied on high quality Japanese hooks, sell retail for $1.75 each.  I love to have people take our fly tieing classes because afterwards they will never complane about the price of flies. I thought about deleting this rather than posting it, but after reading it about 6 times I decided that it was very factual. I started selling flies in a very good sporting goods store thirty years ago. We had Dan Bailey’s US tied flies and Cortland imported flies from Kenya. A lot of people would not be going fly fishing if we didn’t have imported flies. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Hi Jim, Didn’t know you’d become a tackle dealer too. I need a jungle cock cape. Stripers are running in the Georges, Later, Bob Olmsted

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The situation has not improved since you studied it. I am a retired school teacher augmenting my pension by tying flies professionally. I tied for about 10 years before retiring so I could afford to teach. The $30,000 would be reachable. A.K. Best claimed to tie 3,000 dozen/year and I think that is a reasonable number. I like to fish too much to reach that number. The flies tied overseas vary in quality but the good ones are definitely fishable. But when one supplier plans on selling 750,000 dozen this year, it shows a real demand for tyers. I think the best route for local tyers is to custom tie for shops or individual fishermen/fisherwomen/fisherkids. Most of my tying is for one shop and is for patterns not covered by the big boys. I think the Vic’s Fly-By-Night Too much time spent tying Not enough fishing

Response:

The situation has not improved since you studied it. I am a retired school teacher augmenting my pension by tying flies professionally. I tied for about 10 years before retiring so I could afford to teach. The $30,000 would be reachable. A.K. Best claimed to tie 3,000 dozen/year and I think that is a reasonable number. I like to fish too much to reach that number. The flies tied overseas vary in quality but the good ones are definitely fishable. But when one supplier plans on selling 750,000 dozen this year, it shows a real demand for tyers. I think the best route for local tyers is to custom tie for shops or individual fishermen/fisherwomen/fisherkids. Most of my tying is for one shop and is for patterns not covered by the big boys. I think the Vic’s Fly-By-Night Too much time spent tying Not enough fishing

Response:

What I would *really* like to see is a machine-tied fly in several sizes using natural materials. I promise to be awestruck if it has upright wings and a split tail. Now that would be something to hoot about! — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

Response:

It’s really amazing the number of customers that think flies are tied by a machine.  Of course (most of) these are the spouses of fly fishermen coming in to buy a gift.  I had always thought like you – I would like to see THAT machine! Sandy Lockleer Creekside Fly Shop, Salem, Oregon http://www.halcyon.com/flyshop/

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Hi Ken. I saw an ad for hand tied flies and wondered if there was any other way? Silly header really! A machine dextrous enough to tie flies really would be something. Mind you judging by some of the flies that are tied, the inventor of such a machine would make a packet.                                              Tight lines. Dave T. What I would *really* like to see is a machine-tied fly in several sizes using natural materials. I promise to be awestruck if it has upright wings and a split tail. Now that would be something to hoot about!

– dave tait

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I had always thought like you – I would like to see THAT machine!

     Especially the one that does the wings on Jock Scotts.

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I t is good to see that at least one craft/profession has proven resitant to the mechanization of our society. A fly still bears the indelible signature of the tier. It is too bad that so many of our flies are signed by tiers from third world nations making a pitiful wage who have no hope whatever of legally using the flies they tie. A.J.Thramer Bamboo rod craftsman

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I totally agree with this statement. As a former pro tyer I was and still am recieving offers from Kenyans who would like to supply me with trout flies at a fraction of the cost of UK flies. I refused such offers however some of my conterpartarts took up the cheap fly challenge and import tens of thousands of flies per year. These so called fly tyers then sell flies tied by others as their own produce. I look forward to reading of the first test case in the UK of a fly tyer being prosecuted under the trades description act.                                  Dave Tait. You’ve matched the hatch but can you catch the catch? writes I t is good to see that at least one craft/profession has proven resitant to the mechanization of our society. A fly still bears the indelible signature of the tier. It is too bad that so many of our flies are signed by tiers from third world nations making a pitiful wage who have no hope whatever of legally using the flies they tie. A.J.Thramer Bamboo rod craftsman

– dave tait

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A.J writes: It is good to see that at least one

craft/profession has proven resitant to the mechanization of our society. A fly still bears the indelible signature of the tier. It is too bad that so many of our flies are signed by tiers from third world nations making a pitiful wage who have no hope whatever of legally using the flies they tie. I agree mostly with your sentiments. "Hand-tied" is no assurance of quality, per se, however and there are some truly fine flies flies coming in from overseas. If there were not such a large market for them, they wouldn’t be in the shops. Being an advocate of free market economics, I cannot criticize the fact of imports meeting market demands but it would be interesting to learn whether overseas fly manufacturers may be creating opportunities for some individuals that may not otherwise have existed before. Are their wages "pitiful" compared to their local economies? Can domestic tyers supply demand? Quien sabe? — Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

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I cannot verify that the wages paid are different than the prevailing in their area. I suspect that it is an opportunity that the tiers would not have if the fly factories were not there. I can shed some light on the plight of the tier/shop owner.  Many of the tiers have always tended to be unreliable, this lead to unreliable supply. This is obviously a major problem for a commodity as seasonal as flies. A tyer who wants to be a reliable supplier to a shop has a tough road ahead until he can prove himself IF he is given a chance. The point of it being that the overseas suppliers have not competed on a cost basis but on a supply basis. A.J.Thramer

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A.J writes: It is good to see that at least one craft/profession has proven resitant to the mechanization of our society. A fly still bears the indelible signature of the tier. It is too bad that so many of our flies are signed by tiers from third world nations making a pitiful wage who have no hope whatever of legally using the flies they tie.

In fact, tiers in Third World countries often make relatively decent wages, compared to those they

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Hey kids. The steelhead are here, the steelhead are here. And we *finally* got a ffishing shop in this town!  I’m a happy guy. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.

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So… where is this new flyfishing shop that has finally come to the center of the universe, Moscow? Inquiring minds want to know. Is there somewhere else besides WallyWorld, Husky and Garts? Tim

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