Question:

eliminated several years before, and yet we still found cattle and signs of regular grazing activity *inside the former and still-fenced allotments*. Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.

I’m sure there are instances of illegal activity such as you described. However, from my experience, I don’t believe that these instances are "commonplace". — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

Even if they are, that just means more money needs to be spent on enforcing the current restrictions, not coming up with more.

And sadly the folks breaking the law are the same ones against any additional government enforcement of the law. Thomas Gilg

Response:

  George– This is Cindy… Brian’s wife writing now.  I cannot believe your comments regarding ranchers/cattlemen ripping off the consumer.  I grew up in Eastern Montana on a small ranch.  My father received 70-90 cents per pound for his calves sold every fall.  This fall the price given to cattlemen for their calves is still 70-75 cents per pound.  Not much of a raise over the past 20 years.

snipped: Just don’t like cattle on my Federal Lands stealing habitat that belongs to the American People’s wildlife inventories.  Cattle destroy much too much and are a financially bankrupting entity that needs to be removed from all our outdoor recreational lands. George Gehrke

Response:

Just don’t like cattle on my Federal Lands stealing habitat that belongs to the American People’s wildlife inventories.  Cattle destroy much too much and are a financially bankrupting entity that needs to be removed from all our outdoor recreational lands.

The American People’s wildlife inventories are not starving nor do they lack a home. So what I hear you saying is that multiple use on our public lands actually equates to ONLY recreation. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.

Brian D. Nelson responded: I can recall many times having the BLM officer who monitors the grazing permits … I also know of ranchers (not many, though) who lost their grazing permits … You,  sir, are clueless.

Across the west you’ll find varying compliance with grazing permits. Ditto logging laws and so on. I regularily volunteer to help with multi-agency state/federal fish surveys in eastern Oregon, and it is not uncommon to find cattle grazing well outside their permitted range. In one case we were surveying for bull trout in a remote backcountry area where grazing permits had been eliminated several years before, and yet we still found cattle and signs of regular grazing activity *inside the former and still-fenced allotments*. Some of the agency folks were suppose to followup on that discovery. Thomas Gilg

Response:

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.  As enforcement by the government is almost nonexistant, that shouldn’t be surprising.  These common practices do constitute theft in anyone’s book.

Obviously, you’ve never spent any time in eastern Montana where a lot of grazing is done on BLM. I can recall many times having the BLM officer who monitors the grazing permits in our area come around to check grass conditions, number of cattle, water hole conditions, whether or not the ranchers are pulling there cows off public ground at the designated time, etc., etc., etc. I also know of ranchers (not many, though) who lost their grazing permits (and they should) for not following the stipulated conditions on their permit. This same scenario (the proper management of grazing permits) happens all across the American West on both National Forest System Lands and Bureau of Land Management lands. You,  sir, are clueless. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

FISHING RELATED POST?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G. You never met a cattleman, period. —

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G. You don’t have to like them, you have that right, but they are not stealing anything. As long as they have grazing permits it is legal.

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.  As enforcement by the government is almost nonexistant, that shouldn’t be surprising.  These common practices do constitute theft in anyone’s book. Jon

Response:

I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother?

In this country, you are entitled to your own opinion…. even when it’s an incorrect one. Maybe if you’d actually get out there and meet a real cattleman, you’d change your tune. George– This is Cindy… Brian’s wife writing now.  I cannot believe your comments regarding ranchers/cattlemen ripping off the consumer.  I grew up in Eastern Montana on a small ranch.  My father received 70-90 cents per pound for his calves sold every fall.  This fall the price given to cattlemen for their calves is still 70-75 cents per pound.  Not much of a raise over the past 20 years.  Your accusations against the ranchers holds no water.  You are basically talking out of your rear-end.  If you would do some research and cared about your country, you would see that the family ranches are unable to support their families.  Any help we can give the ranchers in the use of public lands is money put back into our economy and assistance to families who are trying to make a living providing food for your table.  And just in case you are a vegetarian, don’t forget those ranchers who graze cattle on public land can then use the land they own to grow grain and barley for your bread.  Don’t be such a twit. Boy, George… did you ever step in it!! When Cindy reads over my shoulder and kicks me off the keyboard…. well, you get the drift. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

  When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose.

Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G.

Response:

Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past?

Boy, George, are you living in the netherworld if you think ranchers have ANY influence on the retail price of beef. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

What’s to do with FISHING anyways?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Boy, George, are you living in the netherworld if you think ranchers have ANY influence on the retail price of beef. What, are you suggesting that both ends are getting screwed by the large corporations in the middle? How un-American! Jon.

Response:

  When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother.

christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G.

You don’t have to like them, you have that right, but they are not stealing anything. As long as they have grazing permits it is legal.

Response:

|  What our outdoor wildlife inventories need is the total removal of all | livestock that steal their food and habitat. | | Why? | | Because wildlife is more valuable to a state’s economy as it is to the | Federal Economy. | | Allowing grazing on Federal (PUBLIC) lands to individual ranchers is stupid | economics. | | George G. | | | | | | | When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush | too I suppose. | — That’s why I advocate using funds collected from grazing federal lands be used to induce ranchers to use land that has already been converted to farming.  I’d rather convert from arable to grazing land, than forest/prairie to grazing land ! I don’t accept that it’s a choice between cattle & tourists – it’s more of a choice between cattle & migrants. But if we convince ranchers to move East onto arable land, we come closer to both protecting our fragile environments AND providing beef at competitive prices (compared to Argentinean beef). P.S. I remember paying $9 a pound for beef in the UK – beef was one of the most expensive forms of meat. But now I pay $9 a pound for Stilton cheese instead (I paid $3-4 a pound for Stilton in the UK).

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east… Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to move that land into less intensive uses. Thomas Gilg

Also what has to be remembered is that the ranchers who won’t be able to afford higher grazing fees will be the smaller family operations. The bigger ones will be able to absorb any increased costs. By most accounts grazing is a problem ( a huge problem in some instances) along the riparian corridors out west but it is also problematic if the solution only brings about the demise of family ranches to the benefit of the huge multi-national conglomerate run outfits. No one said this was going to be easy. George C.

Response:

 What our outdoor wildlife inventories need is the total removal of all livestock that steal their food and habitat. Why? Because wildlife is more valuable to a state’s economy as it is to the Federal Economy. Allowing grazing on Federal (PUBLIC) lands to individual ranchers is stupid economics. George G.

Response:

|

| I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of | depopulation in rural communities back east… | | Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was | several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners | were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does | appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider | myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I | also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring | in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an | opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend | (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – | I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend | lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off | (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to | move that land into less intensive uses. | | Thomas Gilg | | | | | Also what has to be remembered is that the ranchers who won’t be able to afford | higher grazing fees will be the smaller family operations. The bigger ones will | be able to absorb any increased costs. By most accounts grazing is a problem ( a | huge problem in some instances) along the riparian corridors out west but it is | also problematic if the solution only brings about the demise of family ranches | to the benefit of the huge multi-national conglomerate run outfits. | | No one said this was going to be easy. | George C. | That may be true, too. The reason my grandfather specialized, was to devote more acres to one crop, to be able to absorb the fixed overheads. But even he had just 500 acres. My father struggled to make money. I refused to take over – it was clear at an early age that it simply COULD NOT be profitable, because of/despite the (socialist) policies of the Common Agricultural Policy, dreamed up by the EU. These same policies were actually intended to protect the family farm. In reality they destroyed it. Q. How far do we go, to protect the family farm? The French have split their farms between 2 (or more) sons for generations. Now they have 100-acre farms that are mere subsistence farming. On an environmental tack – I would prefer to see people grazing farm land that is already farm land & lacking farmers, rather than grazing the more fragile environments often (but not always) found on federal lands. Take the money farm managers pay and use it to encourage farmers to take up the land that has been converted from it’s natural state, into My family were TENANT farmers. After my father & his brother retired, the farm was bought from the landlord & is now actually profitable. Q. HOW – by finding a niche. The current farmers don’t try to compete with the large managed farms. They run an organic farm – even the wool is organic. They don’t need help competing, because they specialisze. I suspect the family-ranchers here in the SW USA will have to also find a niche.

Response:

I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east…

Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to move that land into less intensive uses. Thomas Gilg

Response:

        www.sfgate.com        Return to regular view In the old West, a tense showdown over federal lands JIM CARLTON, The Wall Street Journal Monday, November 11, 2002

Question:

"Mike S. Medintz" wrote… Even though I had dry feet at the end of it, it turned out to be a looong day.

I hear that – getting soaked through and through is really uncomfortable. Reminds me of a time on Mud Run in PA.  Was downstream from the flyfishing only section, in a steep gorge.  Only way in or out was through the creek itself.  Had just cautiously approached what appeared to be a big brown in a pool, when the sky cracked and the downpour started.  It was one of those Pennsylvania downpours where you can’t see two feet in front of you.  Pelting pounding driving rain. No way out, lightening strikes all around.  Would have stayed drier if I’d gone into the creek. Afterwards, my tobacco was in a foil pouch and was fine, but the disposable butane lighter was soaked on the flint and striker, and I had nothing to dry it with. Most uncomfortable walk back to the truck and drive home.  In retrospect, should have taken off the clothes and wrung them out good – probably would have been more comfortable. Timothy Juvenal

Response:

That was super funny Tim.  I read your post and was thinking capsized boat, not rain. bruce h

Response:

Not waterproof: my rain jacket. (snip)

Hmmm, effective marketing eh? Natty

Response:

Not waterproof: Expensive Motorola handheld radios. Thank god the thing worked again once it dried-I’d have hell to explain otherwise.  Not waterproof: expensive cell phones with 100+  numbers painstakingly entered into memory.  And  no, it didn’t work again after it dried.  Maybe  because the wave that got it was saltwater …

Not to put too fine a point on it, however I would consider that a good thing. ; ^ ) Sorry honey I could not phone the cell broke! Sorry honey I waited for your call but turns out the cell got wet and I Just a thought!   M. Wm.

Response:

When will the Institute release its findings on the relative flammability of fisherpersons? — Michael Collier Citizen Fisherman

Response:

After conducting a controlled scientific experiment to determine the relative water resistance of sundry articles commonly carried by fisherpersons, the Juvenal Institute of Scientific Inquiry has reached the following conclusions: I’m sure we’ll be conducting more tests in the future.

I’ve had the questionable fortune to have conducted similar tests at work. Waterproof: cheap butane lighters, so long as they are inside a pocket. Not waterproof: Expensive Motorola handheld radios. Thank god the thing worked again once it dried-I’d have hell to explain otherwise. Waterproof: Streamlight flashlights. Not waterproof: my rain jacket. Waterproof: My boots, which saved me a long day Not waterproof: My "Water-Resistant to 100 meters" Timex Expedition watch Waterproof: A stainless steel multi-tool. Not waterproof: My smokes. Even though I had dry feet at the end of it, it turned out to be a looong day. — Mike S. Medintz please forgive the weirdness-testing new software

Response:

After conducting a controlled scientific experiment to determine the relative water resistance of sundry articles commonly carried by fisherpersons, the Juvenal Institute of Scientific Inquiry has reached the following conclusions: Not Waterproof: Cloth covered sheepskin-lined streamer wallet.  Very absorbent. Waterproof: Aluminum fly boxes by Perrine and Okuma.  Although vented, the don’t take on water very fast and they dry very quickly. Waterproof: 2 AA cell Maglite.  Maybe the best thing ever made. Not Waterproof: Blue LED emergency light.  Takes in water, which allows a small leakage current.  LED glowed faintly for hours, but it still lights up afterwards.  I was able to get a faint glow in a blue LED with as little as .01 amps at 3 volts, so it won’t run the battery down that fast, but would still be a better emergency light if it weren’t susceptible to moisture-induced current leakage, eh? Waterproof:  Pentax zoom90WR camera.  A little heavy and bulky, but fits in a cargo pants pocket, and all my pictures of herons, wet dogs, and tiny fish are safe. Waterproof:  Jeantet Saturne pipe.  Good as new. Not Waterproof: Plastic lined leather tobacco pouch.  What a mess. Not Waterproof: Remington pocketwatch.  Filled up with water, shorted out, and corroded.  You can’t get anything good for twelve bucks anymore. Waterproof:  Case XX fishing knife.  Usually I prefer carbon steel blades, but good thing these are stainless. Waterproof: Silver flask with art deco nekkid lady engraving.  Good thing, too; believe me I needed it after all that testing! I’m sure we’ll be conducting more tests in the future. Timothy Juvenal After all, fishing trips are supposed to be fun.  If they can also be informative, so much the better.             -Gary A. Borger

Response:

Question:

 Anxious to try my new Diamondback All American 6.5 ft. 3 wt. rod I brought it into work today.  Fortunately I have a huge lake right out the back door of my office.  I don’t usually fish warm water but this was the first chance I would have to try the rod.  I started with a #16 Bead Head Hare’s Ear nymph.  The rod was a little slower than I remember it but felt great.  Line was a SA Mastery WF3F with about 4 ft. of the forward section removed.  I attached a Cortland loop tip and AirFlo 5 ft. light trout leader.  The tippet was 5X.  I felt the Fly Logic FLP 345 was a little heavy for the rod.  I will probably look for something lighter.  The cork was large for this small rod and filled my hand nicely.  The rod tip is soft enough to flip over just the tippet nicely and the butt has the stifness to pump out a 40 ft. cast effortlessly.  Diamondback uses unsanded blanks and first impression is of a rough finish.  Wrappings are well done in dark green and the rod has a pleasing appearance.  The ferrul lacks witness marks, I’ll remedy this later.  I threw the nymph and a #8 popper with rubber legs and hair tail in yellow (per Big Dale’s recommendation).  The rig let me pinpoint casts along the riprap to individual fish and gave me all the rod I needed for casts reaching beyond 50 feet into the lake. Considering I had my back against a steep bank and had to reach up to give the back cast room, I think this was excellent distance.  I don’t usually fish for bluegill but the little 1 and 2 pounders were a lot of fun on this rod.  As soon as I can get a weekend free I’m off to the mountain streams for some REAL fishing! — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

….  I don’t usually fish for bluegill but the little 1 and 2 pounders were a lot of fun on this rod.  As soon as I can get a weekend free I’m off to the mountain streams for some REAL fishing!

A 2 pound bluegill is NOT little and if you think there’s something more REAL than big bluegill on a 3wt, I can only surmise that you’ve suffered some sort of anal cranial inversion. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

 I don’t usually fish for bluegill but the little 1 and 2 pounders were a lot of fun on this rod.  As soon as I can get a weekend free I’m off to the mountain streams for some REAL fishing! A 2 pound bluegill is NOT little and if you think there’s something more REAL than big bluegill on a 3wt, I can only surmise that you’ve suffered some sort of anal cranial inversion.

I was about to say the same thing, but Ken beat me to it while I was looking up the Maryland state record bluegill.   It was 3 lb. 7 oz., caught in August 98.

Response:

"I don’t usually fish for bluegill but the little 1 and 2 pounders were a lot of fun on this rod.  As soon as I can get a weekend free I’m off to the mountain streams for some REAL fishing!" Gee Wayne, sorry you had to be stuck with such teeny,tiny fish to test the new rod.  Mostly it’s been my experience that those little ones just get hooked and give up right away- almost jump up on the bank to throw in the towel against one of those husky 3wt’s. BTW- mind sending along your business address if it wouldn’t be too much trouble, I don’t really have to take that trip to the AuSable – I mean it’s not written in stone or anything   Jim McCreary

Response:

I second that emotion, there ain’t nuthin much more fun than hit’n on a bunch of pound and half pumpkin seeds and blue gill on a 3wt. I’ll be doing it again in the morning. I enjoy both but don’t have the opportunity to really fish but maybe twice a year so I must REALLY fish each weekend. All in fun Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I don’t usually fish for bluegill but the little 1 and 2 pounders were a lot of fun on this rod.  As soon as I can get a weekend free I’m off to the mountain streams for some REAL fishing! A 2 pound bluegill is NOT little and if you think there’s something more REAL than big bluegill on a 3wt, I can only surmise that you’ve suffered some sort of anal cranial inversion. I was about to say the same thing, but Ken beat me to it while I was looking up the Maryland state record bluegill.   It was 3 lb. 7 oz., caught in August 98.

Response:

1 to 2 pound Bluegill !!!  WHERE ?  I NEED TO KNOW NOW !!! Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I second that emotion, there ain’t nuthin much more fun than hit’n on a bunch of pound and half pumpkin seeds and blue gill on a 3wt. I’ll be doing it again in the morning. I enjoy both but don’t have the opportunity to really fish but maybe twice a year so I must REALLY fish each weekend. All in fun Jim  I don’t usually fish for bluegill but the little 1 and 2 pounders were a lot of fun on this rod.  As soon as I can get a weekend free I’m off to the mountain streams for some REAL fishing! A 2 pound bluegill is NOT little and if you think there’s something more REAL than big bluegill on a 3wt, I can only surmise that you’ve suffered some sort of anal cranial inversion. I was about to say the same thing, but Ken beat me to it while I was looking up the Maryland state record bluegill.   It was 3 lb. 7 oz., caught in August 98.

Response:

around 6 lbs. as I recall, caught last year. Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -1 to 2 pound Bluegill !!!  WHERE ?  I NEED TO KNOW NOW !!! Bill I second that emotion, there ain’t nuthin much more fun than hit’n on a bunch of pound and half pumpkin seeds and blue gill on a 3wt. I’ll be doing it again in the morning. I enjoy both but don’t have the opportunity to really fish but maybe twice a year so I must REALLY fish each weekend. All in fun Jim  I don’t usually fish for bluegill but the little 1 and 2 pounders were a lot of fun on this rod.  As soon as I can get a weekend free I’m off to the mountain streams for some REAL fishing! A 2 pound bluegill is NOT little and if you think there’s something more REAL than big bluegill on a 3wt, I can only surmise that you’ve suffered some sort of anal cranial inversion. I was about to say the same thing, but Ken beat me to it while I was looking up the Maryland state record bluegill.   It was 3 lb. 7 oz., caught in August 98.

Response:

Bill, Lake Anna near Mineral Virginia.  I work at the nuclear power station on Lake Anna.  Our shoreline has areas of large rip-rap which grows VERY large bluegill and attracts a nice population of 1 to 3 pound bass as well.  I didn’t read the carp on a fly thread but we have 20 to 30 pounders in abundance ( our European members are having woodies by now). Wayne To fish is Human….To Release Divine.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -1 to 2 pound Bluegill !!!  WHERE ?  I NEED TO KNOW NOW !!! Bill

Response:

Bluegill is around 6 lbs. as I recall, caught last year.

Could someone please tell me why the hell I am going to Ennis next summer for the western clave when I could be going to South Carolina in a search for a six pound bluegill? Big Dale

Response:

Could someone please tell me why the hell I am going to Ennis next summer for the western clave when I could be going to South Carolina in a search for a six pound bluegill?

Because the NAACP has issued a tourism boycott of South Carolina ? Works for me. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Well let’s see, I have Virginia and South Carolina now.  Think I could make a weekend trip from Arizona? Times are getting desperate.  I got stuck in a job doing 65 hours per week and no weekends.  I decided an education was the only way out.  I just finished a BS degree in Information Systems and got certified in VB 6.0. Now if I can just find employment with weekends off I can chase those big Bluegill again.  Haven’t had a chance to breath in the last two years and if I don’t catch a good fish soon I’m going to lose it!  Major withdrawal symptoms taking effect. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bill, Lake Anna near Mineral Virginia.  I work at the nuclear power station on Lake Anna.  Our shoreline has areas of large rip-rap which grows VERY large bluegill and attracts a nice population of 1 to 3 pound bass as well.  I didn’t read the carp on a fly thread but we have 20 to 30 pounders in abundance ( our European members are having woodies by now). Wayne To fish is Human….To Release Divine. 1 to 2 pound Bluegill !!!  WHERE ?  I NEED TO KNOW NOW !!! Bill

Response:

Fish was caught using a fly rod, but he had a spinning reel on it dropping a jig into shore cover in a tailrace canal. It was an ugly damn thing but man was it big…. Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bluegill is around 6 lbs. as I recall, caught last year. Could someone please tell me why the hell I am going to Ennis next summer for the western clave when I could be going to South Carolina in a search for a six pound bluegill? Big Dale

Response:

Sheesh Big Dale, I can’t even conjur up an image of a 6# bluegill, it gives me the shakes to imagine that monster on my 3 wt.  Can you say "into the backing"? :-0 Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bluegill is around 6 lbs. as I recall, caught last year. Could someone please tell me why the hell I am going to Ennis next summer for the western clave when I could be going to South Carolina in a search for a six pound bluegill? Big Dale

Response:

Bill, it will come with time, I spent 20 yrs in the navy and had no time, I’m now 54 and have averaged 104 days per year on the water for the last four years. I don’t do weekends or windows anymore. Jim

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well let’s see, I have Virginia and South Carolina now.  Think I could make a weekend trip from Arizona? Times are getting desperate.  I got stuck in a job doing 65 hours per week and no weekends.  I decided an education was the only way out.  I just finished a BS degree in Information Systems and got certified in VB 6.0. Now if I can just find employment with weekends off I can chase those big Bluegill again.  Haven’t had a chance to breath in the last two years and if I don’t catch a good fish soon I’m going to lose it!  Major withdrawal symptoms taking effect. Bill Bill, Lake Anna near Mineral Virginia.  I work at the nuclear power station on Lake Anna.  Our shoreline has areas of large rip-rap which grows VERY large bluegill and attracts a nice population of 1 to 3 pound bass as well.  I didn’t read the carp on a fly thread but we have 20 to 30 pounders in abundance ( our European members are having woodies by now). Wayne To fish is Human….To Release Divine. 1 to 2 pound Bluegill !!!  WHERE ?  I NEED TO KNOW NOW !!! Bill

Response:

i agree i might give up a few days of steelhead fishing for 6 pound bluegills!!! krombear I wonder if fish get thirsty

Response:

OK Guys, Come on down!  Access to this section of Lake Anna shoreline is with Virginia Power employee escort only.  I’ll lead the motorcade down to the parking area and assign beats to the fishermen.  At the recreation facility adjacent to the bluegill fishing we have restrooms, picnic shelters, grills, vollyball courts, and alcohol consumption is allowed.  Preferred beverages are Macallans and The Famous Grouse.  You buy. Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "I don’t usually fish for bluegill but the little 1 and 2 pounders were a lot of fun on this rod.  As soon as I can get a weekend free I’m off to the mountain streams for some REAL fishing!" Gee Wayne, sorry you had to be stuck with such teeny,tiny fish to test the new rod.  Mostly it’s been my experience that those little ones just get hooked and give up right away- almost jump up on the bank to throw in the towel against one of those husky 3wt’s. BTW- mind sending along your business address if it wouldn’t be too much trouble, I don’t really have to take that trip to the AuSable – I mean it’s not written in stone or anything   Jim McCreary

Response:

OK Guys, Come on down!  Access to this section of Lake Anna shoreline is with Virginia Power employee escort only.  I’ll lead the motorcade down to the parking area and assign beats to the fishermen.  At the recreation facility adjacent to the bluegill fishing we have restrooms, picnic shelters, grills, vollyball courts, and alcohol consumption is allowed.  Preferred beverages are Macallans and The Famous Grouse.  You buy. Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine.

An "ROFF ‘Gill Clave" in the making??  But will there be hats?? Little concerned ’bout those "glow in the dark" nuclear ‘gills though- is that what makes em so plentiful. Jim

Response:

… Little concerned ’bout those "glow in the dark" nuclear ‘gills though- is that what makes em so plentiful.

Don’t know anything about Lake Anna but here in central Illinois there’s a nuke plant on Clinton Lake and the warm water discharge does extend the growing season. Doesn’t make for more fish but bigger fish than you’d expect otherwise. — Ken Fortenberry

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You might even get to meet Strom himself, if you’re lucky enough to catch him between naps. jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Could someone please tell me why the hell I am going to Ennis next summer for the western clave when I could be going to South Carolina in a search for a six pound bluegill? Because the NAACP has issued a tourism boycott of South Carolina ? Yeah, but you’d get to hang out with people who voted for Strom Thurmond<g. — Charlie…

Response:

does anyone else think there may be a relationship between the "nuclear power plant" and the 3 lb bluegills???  wasn’t that a roger corman movie?? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sheesh Big Dale, I can’t even conjur up an image of a 6# bluegill, it gives me the shakes to imagine that monster on my 3 wt.  Can you say "into the backing"? :-0 Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED Bluegill is around 6 lbs. as I recall, caught last year. Could someone please tell me why the hell I am going to Ennis next summer for the western clave when I could be going to South Carolina in a search for a six pound bluegill? Big Dale

Response:

Wayne, I’d be interested taking you up on your offer and coming up there, perhaps for a one-day deal sometime this winter. There’s plenty good bluegill fishing within a few blocks of my house, but it would be fun anyway. There are several of us close enough to make it up there and back in a single day–I’ll bet that Tom Brown and my buddy Bill Crone would come along, and perhaps some of the other NC ROFFians. Perhaps one of the days between Christmas and New Years… Is the fishing still decent at that time of year? Steve Zimmerman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK Guys, Come on down!  Access to this section of Lake Anna shoreline is with Virginia Power employee escort only.  I’ll lead the motorcade down to the parking area and assign beats to the fishermen.  At the recreation facility adjacent to the bluegill fishing we have restrooms, picnic shelters, grills, vollyball courts, and alcohol consumption is allowed.  Preferred beverages are Macallans and The Famous Grouse.  You buy.

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Steve, If you want to do this, let me know.  My only hesitation is that this guy is also an engineer and he survived several days fishing with Walt earlier this year and seemingly, escaped unscathed.  I’ve never managed more than one day with Walt, and was scared, even then.  Hell, I think Marie liked him, too.  We gotta be careful, here….. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC HEATHEN, n. A benighted creature who has the folly to worship something that he can see and feel.                – Ambrose Bierce: The Devil’s Dictionary – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayne, I’d be interested taking you up on your offer and coming up there, perhaps for a one-day deal sometime this winter. There’s plenty good bluegill fishing within a few blocks of my house, but it would be fun anyway. There are several of us close enough to make it up there and back in a single day–I’ll bet that Tom Brown and my buddy Bill Crone would come along, and perhaps some of the other NC ROFFians. Perhaps one of the days between Christmas and New Years… Is the fishing still decent at that time of year? Steve Zimmerman OK Guys, Come on down!  Access to this section of Lake Anna shoreline is with Virginia Power employee escort only.  I’ll lead the motorcade down to the parking area and assign beats to the fishermen.  At the recreation facility adjacent to the bluegill fishing we have restrooms, picnic shelters, grills, vollyball courts, and alcohol consumption is allowed.  Preferred beverages are Macallans and The Famous Grouse.  You buy.

Response:

"nuclear power plant" and the 3 lb bluegills???  wasn’t that a roger corman movie??

Made me think of a Simpson’s show when Bart caught a 3 eyed fish while fishing below the neclear power plant. Do any of those 3lb. fish have three eyes? Big Dale

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"nuclear power plant" and the 3 lb bluegills???  wasn’t that a roger corman movie?? Made me think of a Simpson’s show when Bart caught a 3 eyed fish while fishing below the neclear power plant. Do any of those 3lb. fish have three eyes? Big Dale

Of course not…….but the bigger ones do have two tails. jim

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Question:

Thanks everyone! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi! Might anyone know places for fly fishing lessons in the Greater Wash. D.C. Area? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Eric Eric, Smith Coleman is an outstanding fly fishing instructor and works from his shop in Outdoor Adventures on Rt. 3 in Fredericksburg/Spotsylvania Virginia.  Excellent one-on-one lesson packages.  For a bit more advance lessons try Harry Murray in Edinburg Virginia over in the Valley. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

– Eric Schurr                     Coord. for Public Relations Dept. of Electrical and Computer Engineering University of Maryland         2409 A.V. Williams Bldg. College Park, Maryland 20742 Phone: (301)405-3516 Fax: (301)314-9281

Response:

Hi! Might anyone know places for fly fishing lessons in the Greater Wash. D.C. Area? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Eric

Response:

Hi! Might anyone know places for fly fishing lessons in the Greater Wash. D.C. Area? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! Eric

Eric, Smith Coleman is an outstanding fly fishing instructor and works from his shop in Outdoor Adventures on Rt. 3 in Fredericksburg/Spotsylvania Virginia.  Excellent one-on-one lesson packages.  For a bit more advance lessons try Harry Murray in Edinburg Virginia over in the Valley. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Hi! Might anyone know places for fly fishing lessons in the Greater Wash. D.C. Area? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I took a very good class a few years ago from TROUT AND ABOUT. They have different length classes, and also trips if you like. http://www.troutandabout.com/ — Jeff Cook http://www.cookstudios.com Washington DC area

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Question:

Come to think of it, did Medina EVER contribute anything constructive to this newsgroup?  I guess if you count this petty whine. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

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Just curious, where are you writing from because your emails were dated 3/12 and the times were 1:17AM and 1:23AM? Shouldn’t that put you about two or three time zones into the Atlantic Ocean?

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Just curious, where are you writing from because your 2 emails were dated 3/12 and the times were 1:17AM and 1:23AM? Shouldn’t that put you about two or three time zones east of the eastern seaboard and into the Atlantic Ocean?

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I agree! I regret that the NG has strayed so far afield. Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

Response:

W Hart wrote Come to think of it, did Medina EVER contribute anything constructive to this newsgroup? …

If so, none are memorable. However, we have recently lost Mike Connor, one of the more interesting contributors in the last year, and part of the reason we have lost him is because of the turn the group has taken lately.  Mr. G contributes but he also detracts, kind of a zero-sum contribution if you ask me.  Still, by ignoring any post with ‘bastard’ in the subject, I pretty much get to avoid his spam and just see his positive contributions and occasional political rants … which are laughable and obviously not to be taken seriously. But…I wish we hadn’t lost Mike. —                                                       -dnc-

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W Hart wrote Come to think of it, did Medina EVER contribute anything constructive to this newsgroup? … If so, none are memorable. However, we have recently lost Mike Connor, one of the more interesting contributors in the last year, and part of the reason we have lost him is because of the turn the group has taken lately.  Mr. G contributes but he also detracts, kind of a zero-sum contribution if you ask me.  Still, by ignoring any post with ‘bastard’ in the subject, I pretty much get to avoid his spam and just see his positive contributions and occasional political rants … which are laughable and obviously not to be taken seriously. But…I wish we hadn’t lost Mike.

  Agreed HM

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Come to think of it, did Medina EVER contribute anything constructive to this newsgroup?  I guess if you count this petty whine.

Namesake: The fact that Mr. Medina browsed the newsgroup means he contributed something constructive. If this group is like many others, many more folks browse vs post. While I’m sure that some bright techno internet fluent person could tell us that probably  90% of the post come from maybe 25 people. Sometimes the hardest lesson for us to learn to listen first, then post. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

Response:

Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further….

Geez.  It’s obvious that Mr. G thrives on all of the attention.   The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros. Personally I like the guy, but I understand why he infuriates many.  But Mr. G seems to believe that any publicity is good publicity. Michael

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Is it just me, or is he not taking his own advice?  Hypocracy shining like a lighthouse here. He is leaving the group because he is sick of reading people’s (including mine) PHEWING, YET his advice to people is,  "they should just ignore his posts rather than reading them" Larry, if you don’t want to ignore the PHEWING posts, because they ruin the group for you to the point of leaving, how can you suggest that  we should just ignore SPAMboo posts which are ruining the group for us? Come back soon Larry, become a part of the solution of making this group more flyfishing related. Matt Blickensderfer * A Grouchy German is a Sour Kraut! *

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

Response:

The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros.

That’s good. What we’ve got here are two opposing forces, the Positive G’s and the Negative G’s. — Jeff Cook Washington DC area http://www.cookstudios.com

Response:

The best thing that the anti-G[ehrke] forces could do is ignore him. It would also serve the desires of the pros. That’s good. What we’ve got here are two opposing forces, the Positive G’s and the Negative G’s.

By Jove, I think he’s got it!   But more likely than not we’re all getting sucked into this giant G-Hole. (hah! the subject heading made you look, you licentious ne’er do wells) In other minor news, I tied up some saltwater streamers for a buddy in Boston and then wondered how I could send them to him.  Found that one of those floppy disk cases (that holds 4-5 disks) makes a perfect reusable mailing case.  I had a couple of these lying around from back in the days when floppies were more common. Mu Young Lee     Ann Arbor, MI    USA

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The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros. That’s good. What we’ve got here are two opposing forces, the Positive G’s and the Negative G’s. — Jeff Cook Washington DC area http://www.cookstudios.com

Hmmmmm If you algebraically add the positive G and the negative G does that mean that that there’s no G spot? Jheez, this could be serious. — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC I shall be telling this with a sigh Somewhere ages and ages hence: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I- I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference.             Robert Frost (1874-1963)

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I guess in the greater scheme we can consider each presence adds to us in its existence or diminishes us in its loss.  Certainly lurkers and the most worthwhile sport of lurking has many advantages.  We certainly do not want to discourage lurkers for there-in lies the untapped gold.  However, a whine is a far cry from a lurk.  And, Dear Wayne, there will be no Whine before its time! Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Namesake: The fact that Mr. Medina browsed the newsgroup means he contributed something constructive. If this group is like many others, many more folks browse vs post. While I’m sure that some bright techno internet fluent person could tell us that probably  90% of the post come from maybe 25 people. Sometimes the hardest lesson for us to learn to listen first, then post. Wayne Knight Geneva IL

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. Geez.  It’s obvious that Mr. G thrives on all of the attention.   The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros. Personally I like the guy, but I understand why he infuriates many.  But Mr. G seems to believe that any publicity is good publicity. Michael

_______  wrong. Mr. G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com

Response:

Amazing!  You don’t like it yet you keep reading it over, and over, and over.  If you want just the information you specifically wish to see I suggest you set down, write yourself several hundred extremely boorish e-mails and send them to yourself over a period of several months.  Better yet, go out and buy a Fly Fishing magazine!  Everything you ever wanted to know, and all the knowledge in the world for just a few schekles, or are you too cheap to spring for the ‘zine.  You want information?  Go buy an encyclopedia.  You want knowledge and experience not found in writing anywhere else?  Naw, you don’t want to read anything not specifically tailored to your personal wants and desires.  I sure hope your wife doesn’t bore you one evening! Come again when you can stay longer! Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I agree! I regret that the NG has strayed so far afield. Jim Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

Response:

The best thing that the anti-G forces could do is ignore him.  It would also serve the desires of the pros. That’s good. What we’ve got here are two opposing forces, the Positive G’s and the Negative G’s. — Jeff Cook Washington DC area http://www.cookstudios.com

______  Brings back memories of my fighter pilot days. very funny Jeff. Neutral G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com

Response:

Well, That’s enough for me… …I came back about three weeks ago because I missed the information being provided and the chance to share ideas about ff’ing….now, I’m sick of all the bitching and George bashing and all….personally, I think those of you that are "tired of Mr.G" should just ignore his posts rather than reading them, disecting them and then responding to him and baiting him further…. If at any time in the near future the NG gets back to the subject R.O.F.F…. would someone let me know? Larry

Response:

Similarly, I came back to see what progress was being made with the ‘Bastards’ and hopefully to find a little more civility. Not to be. What I found is the S.O.S.

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Question:

Nice trip Frank!  Bluegill can be a hoot when they are active and hitting on top. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As promised, here ’tis. (nice trip snipped) Frank (sunburned in Elkhart) Church Elkhart, IN

Response:

As promised, here ’tis. Met my brother Monday at Jackson L. in south central Florida about noon.  Temps in the low 80’s and an absolutely gorgeous day graced us. We fished first for bass, both of us missed a couple of good strikes, but that’s about it for the afternoon.  BTW, the strikes came on a wooly bugger popper that was shown in Warm Water Flyfishing mag. Nothing more than a wooly bugger (long shank hook) with a popper head on the front. I added rubber legs and eyes as well. This was a ‘dry’ camp, (no, not booze) but no water, no trash cans, and one pit toilet that defies description. (PU!!)  We spent the nite in our pickups as it turns out, tho we had planned to sleep in bivy tents. The preponderance of alligators suggested the prudent thing to do was get off the ground.  Shining a 5 cell light out on the water after dark revealed dozens of eyeballs staring back at us, and we had seen some ‘big’ ones during the day. The next morning we woke to peasoup fog, so opted to wait awhile for it to lift. As soon as we could make out trees in the gloom, we shoved off and stayed within sight of the trees.  Again, we both missed strikes.  I then switched to my St Croix 2 wt and began throwing tiny poppers, and then the fun began. Caught really nice size bluegill, and had a helluva time with the 2 wt, love it!!  During the time we were in the middle of this herd of ‘gills, one hit at my popper, I jerked it so hard that the popper sailed over my head and landed in the water behind me, guess what, another nailed it there before I could recover the ‘bad backcast’ and go after the first one. All in all, it was a fun time and really nice to get in walking shorts and sandals again. I don’t need to catch fish to have a good time, and a bonus was the wildlife…bald eagles, heron, egrets, coons, anhingas, and, of course, the ever present alligators. I will arrange another delivery down that way by the end of the month and try again. Frank (sunburned in Elkhart) Church Elkhart, IN

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Question:

What is there to do in Belize? I have been told that it has the best fly fishing in the world. But I would like to more about the country. Is the snorkelling good, scuba diving and beaches worth the trip? And what about the Mayan ruins, tropical rain forest and anything else you can tell me?

Response:

What is there to do in Belize? I have been told that it has the best fly fishing in the world. But I would like to more about the country. Is the snorkelling good, scuba diving and beaches worth the trip? And what about the Mayan ruins, tropical rain forest and anything else you can tell me?

We stayed in Placencia in May 2000 and stayed at the Rum Point Inn.  The beaches were okay but not good for walking out into the water and swimming – full of turtle grass.  The Mayan ruins – we visited Lubantuum and Nimli Punit – were amazing, particularly Lubantuum.  There was no snorkeling from the beach, but a one hour boat ride got us out to some amazing places for both snorkeling and scuba diving.  Absolutely breathtaking.  We didn’t go on the Monkey River tour or to the Jaguar preserve (ran out of $$) but friends who did go said it was well worthwhile. May seems to be an off-season so it’s hard to tell whether we visited at the best time. We weren’t crazy about Placencia or the Rum Point Inn, but I’ve heard others extoll the virtues of both.  We definitely enjoyed the snorkeling and Mayan ruins, and would recommend it for that.

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Question:

Does anyone know what is available in hip waders for preschoolers and where they can be purchased? Thanks,Paul and his little buddy Zack.

Response:

Does anyone know what is available in hip waders for preschoolers and

where they can be purchased? Thanks,Paul and his little buddy Zack.

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood the subject.  I though you were talking about waders that would be hip to kids.  You know, they would probably be 8 sizes too big and hang down below the underwear? David B.

Response:

Does anyone know what is available in hip waders for preschoolers and

where they can be purchased? Thanks,Paul and his little buddy Zack.

Hi Zack and his big bud Paul-    Call Ron Pylki in Eugene Oregon at (503) 773-2181 or (503) 779-8008. He used to specialize in this kind of application through his company NeoSports. I haven’t heard from NeoSports in a while and am afraid they might no longer be in business. Even if they’re defunct, Ron should still have all the dies and stuff and be able to whip up a pair for cheap.    -Ralph —

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Question:

The Catskill Flyfishing Center and Museum opened a new building a few months ago. They have something going on almost every weekend. Give em your support. Phone 914-439-4810 for more info. Regards,

Response:

Yes.  They have a beautiful new museum building which opened in November….I was there Saturday for their annual flea market.  It’s really a great spot to visit now….don’t miss it. Mike Coon Phoenicia, NY – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The Catskill Flyfishing Center and Museum opened a new building a few months ago. They have something going on almost every weekend. Give em your support. Phone 914-439-4810 for more info. Regards,

Response:

I’m planning a trip down to Roscoe NY for the annual fly fishing flea market at the flyfishing museum.  Anybody been? Rick

Response:

I’m planning a trip down to Roscoe NY for the annual fly fishing flea market at the flyfishing museum.  Anybody been?

No, when is it?  I’m heading down that way Sunday (8/20) evening to fish the Delaware and staying over a day.  I’m not sure which way is "down" for you but I’m heading there from Ithaca. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems  Ithaca, NY

Response:

On Saturday 8/26 there will be a fly-fishing flea market in Roscoe itself. See you there. Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (Richard Nathan) writes: I’m planning a trip down to Roscoe NY for the annual fly fishing flea market at the flyfishing museum.  Anybody been? No, when is it?  I’m heading down that way Sunday (8/20) evening to fish the Delaware and staying over a day.  I’m not sure which way is "down" for you but I’m heading there from Ithaca. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems  Ithaca, NY

Response:

On Saturday 8/26 there will be a fly-fishing flea market in Roscoe itself. See you there.

Is this an annual thing? —

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Question:

                                                                    The thing that got me was that i read Lyman Hugh’s response, when he stated that he was always disappointed to see them on the end of the line.  My question is, if the fish fight well (which they really do), and if they aren’t too ugly (which, in my book, they’re not), then why the disappointmentR?

A)…..white fish can’t jump! B)…..they fight hard for few moments, and then poop out, perhaps        because their mouths are so small, so they run out of oxygen        faster. C)…..they’re good smoked, a delicacy, in fact. Because of their        oily flesh, they take the smoke better. (But they’re hard to        keep lit). —

Response:

I’m pretty sure you are now talking about 2 different species of fish. The whitefish in Montana looks a lot like a grayling/sucker, relatively long and thin.  The Great Lakes whitefish, a delicacy, is a chunky, somewhat oily fish that is a high-priced restaurant meal, commercially netted.  I have caught them in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area, rising at dusk to the white may flies that come in August.  They are usually broiled with paprika, andthe fillets are delicious. Whitefish are sought after up here in Ontario. You guys don’t know what

you’re missing. They fillet great and are also stuffed/baked. They must be good ifthey are sold commeircially here but I get mine thru the ice on Simcoe andwould rank them behind crappie and walleye in terms of tastiness They – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -will also hit minnows and jigs. — Richard Park    

Response:

Well, I ditched work for the afternoon yesterday and ventured out upon the local waters and managed to catch my first brown trout (2 of ‘em, actually — I’m a novice ffisherman).  I also caught a mountain whitefish.  I’ve caught a couple of whitefish now.  The fishing proclamation calls them gamefish here in Utah, but to my knowledge, most fishermen treat them as trash fish.

Jay, I’ve caught mountain whitefish and a couple of species of lake w’fish. They taste just fine. Despite the scales, they’re salmonids (as are grayling). The mountain species lives in substantially the same waters as trout, eats almost the same stuff, and fights quite respectably. Unfortunately, there is a perception on some waters that fish fall into one of two categories (trout & trash). Sad — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

Response:

inhis posting on whitefish, Jay stated The fishing proclamation calls them gamefish here in Utah, but to my knowledge, most fishermen treat them as trash fish. Does anyone know if whitefish are edible?  (Well, of *course* they’re edible, but does anybody purposely fish for them and take them home for supper?)

     Whitefish are excellent eating, and they are truly wonderful smoked, which is easy to do. There is a good article and recipe in the latest issue of Big Sky Journal. Whitefish are best eaten when caught in the colder weather months, i.e. November through April.       In addition, whitefish provide some pretty good sport to any Ffisher with an open mind. They take dry flies, love nymphs, and fight respectably. They are NOT a trash fish. The term Trash Fish usually conjures up images of fish species that take over sections of river that become either too warm or too polluted to sustain hte more desireable game fish.  Also, trash fish are often accused, either rightly or wrongly,  of having a negative impact on trout or other gamefish populations, which is certainly not the case with Whitefish.      Whitefish, require the same pristine river conditions that trout do. Chances are that a river that can no longer sustain breeding trout populations can’t sustain whitefish either. They too are an indicator species for water quality. Finally they are a member of the overall family of which trout are also members, like second or third cousins, so they cant be all bad!  I wish trout fishermen who catch them would stop throwing them on the banks to die needlessly, and either return them to the rivers or take them home and make use out of them Dale Owens

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Well, Me and my girlfriend caught a couple on accident while fishing for crappie.  We took it home, and filleted them.  We froze them and then took them out of the freezer to thaw.  The thawed for a while (we went somewhere that weekend), and when we came back, they were ruined.  They filleted real nicely and had a lot of boneless meat to them, so They would not be a problem to try them and see if they are any good.  I hear they are good smoked.  We hear about them all the time in our hunting and fishing news, they are active about the same time the other fishes are spawning (they eat eggs).  People catch them on whitefish flies (what are whitefish flies), and also with a maggot on the fly.  This did not answer the question, but had to say my piece.

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Whitefish are sought after up here in Ontario. You guys don’t know what you’re missing. They fillet great and are also stuffed/baked. They must be good if they are sold commeircially here but I get mine thru the ice on Simcoe and would rank them behind crappie and walleye in terms of tastiness They will also hit minnows and jigs. — Richard Park    

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.. would not be a problem to try them and see if they are any good.  I hear they are good smoked. …

I really like them smoked (although a lot of bones, but I don’t mind) … Peter

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Jay  Clibern writes:

"The fishing proclamation calls them gamefish here in Utah, but to my knowledge, most fishermen treat them as trash fish. Does anyone know if whitefish are edible?  (Well, of *course* they’re edible, but does anybody purposely fish for them and take them home for supper?)" Jay – As ugly as they are, they are edible – smoked is the only way that I know of.  I can’t say I am a big fan, but lots of folks like them.  If you fish around Ennis, MT on the Madison, you can take 4 or 5 (or fewer) whitefish into the Resvedts Meat market, give them a fish and a dollar for each fish, and they will give you an already smoked whitefish. A big surprise to me is the fact that the whitefish is part of the trout family.  Hard to believe.  I don’t like whitefish (could you tell?), and to me nothing is as frustration as thinking you ahve a big trout on the line only to see that slimey rubber lipped head appear.  But that’s ony one man’s opinion. Lyman Hughes Ennis, MT Dallas, TX                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

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The round whitefish is another Great Lakes species. Locally they are called "Menominee." I catch them off Michigan piers in October to freeze up. In 1994 I fished as late as after Christmas. They bite on a single poached salmon egg on the bottom. They are timid biters and the real trick is to know when they are after the bait. My family considers them delicious. Incidently, nobody fishes for them on the Wisconsin side of the lake. Wisconsin comercial fishermen net them but I’ve never seen anyone fishing for them in the Michigan manner.

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you are correct about the Lake witefishes.  But the mountain whitefish of the Rockies and the Truckee drainage in California/Nevada ( The answer to a trivia question about distribution of Western Salomids before coming of the european )  are a completely different case then the  whitefish of the Great Lakes.        The Mountain Whitefish, otherwise Known as Salmo ( as they are a salmonid )  Carpi, have been extending their range.  It seams that with all the "progress"  and the wonderful benefit that strip mining brings to the landscape and the stream.  That the Mountain Whitefish is able to withstand the rapid changes in its environment, better then the trout.

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I think that all the answers to the original note follow pretty much what I have read and heard about Whitefish.  I have just one other thought.  I am a catch-and-releaser, mainly because I really don’t like trout that much.  But that’s another story.  I have caught a zillion whitefish in Montana and Wyoming and I can truly say that in most cases I didn’t know they were whitefish until I got them up close in the stream.  That says that they gave me the fight I was looking for and if you don’t keep the fish, what difference does it make if it isn’t a trout but gives you pleasure in catching it?  I’ll have to admit I’m always a little disappointed when I see it’s not a trout since I came to catch trout.  But – accept the fun of the catch and the fight and enjoy the experience. John B. in Mpls..

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Re: white fish-Not to rehash other wf remarks, but … they do fight well and taste great! Have caught them in Madison fried them for breakfast and grilled them. Meat is white and chunky. I caught 16 last year on dry files in about 30 minutes. Way to tell if guy down stream has a wf, the rod tip will jiggle up and down and trout have more steady bend. I got ‘em, turned away from crowd to release them, still in water and everyone thought I was catching trout!!! Was fun.

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