Question:

Ever heard of a test being run? Any body with two sets of fins and a GPS could run a test for us.

Next time I’m out with my Force Fins, I’ll just have the water skier hold the GPS for me.  That way I can watch where I’m going bruce h

Response:

I need a new pair of fins. Although I find it hard to justify paying a hundred bucks for a pair of fins, Bill’s post was pretty convincing and yours clinched it. I HATE getting blown across a lake. Willi

Ditto.  Sounds like my next purchase. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

I’m impressed.  I always assumed it was the float tube design that sucked, maybe it was just the caddis fins. I eagerly await daytripper’s test results, but I may jump the gun. Thanks much, Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need a new pair of fins. Although I find it hard to justify paying a hundred bucks for a pair of fins, Bill’s post was pretty convincing and yours clinched it. I HATE getting blown across a lake. Willi Ditto.  Sounds like my next purchase. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Fix underscore in address to reply

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Dick, We sell them one a time for 50% of the cost of a pair. Just call our USA toll free number and tell us what size and right or left fin? We carry the Original and the Adjustable in black only. 1-800-400-0359 We can ship one to you tomorrow any where in the USA. Do feel alone, this happens all the time. There is nothing like the Force Fin for float tubes and pontoon boats. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

Thanks Bill, I’ve become accustomed to fishing without boots – just using a neoprene booty which is pretty comfortable for long days on the lake.   In an another post "Bruiser" indicated originals fit better for this application than the adjustables? Although it isn’t often, I have had occassions where it would have been an advantage to be wearing boots – so I’m wondering if the adjustable model is just for boots or is it as comfortable as the original without boots?  And of course, is there enough slack in the adjustment to accomodate both modes? Thanks for your time, – Dick

Response:

I need a new pair of fins. Although I find it hard to justify paying a hundred bucks for a pair of fins, Bill’s post was pretty convincing and yours clinched it. I HATE getting blown across a lake. Willi Ditto.  Sounds like my next purchase. I’m impressed.  I always assumed it was the float tube design that sucked, maybe it was just the caddis fins. I eagerly await daytripper’s test results, but I may jump the gun.

Don’t hold your breath. It’ll be some time before I can do tube time trials with my Force Fins… fwiw, though, I don’t think the Force Fins are all that special wrt to making good time, but they’re the only fins I’ve ever owned that I can walk *forward* in while wearing a tube without inevitably doing a face plant. They’re definitely worth it for that, though there is that risk of a tether failure losing one to the deep… /daytripper (T-13 Hours)

Response:

I cant remember exactly when it was…maybe around 1990, the maker of force fins was in the process of developing fins that float.  I haven’t shopped for much fishing gear in last few years so I’m not sure if there are any on the market Go Oregon Ducks…The  Big Green Scoring Machine

Response:

I am a believer. Force Fins are the best.     I agree. If you do much float tubing where I live, you are going to find yourself out on the water when the wind picks up to 40-60 mph, and as often as not it will blow you away from your put-in spot. When I used Caddis fins I was unable to overcome the wind, and I usually ended up walking back from the far side of the lake. With Force fins I can power my way into a pretty stiff headwind and save myself a three mile walk (usually through a marsh, wearing neoprenes and carrying a tube, fins, and rod).

I need a new pair of fins. Although I find it hard to justify paying a hundred bucks for a pair of fins, Bill’s post was pretty convincing and yours clinched it. I HATE getting blown across a lake. Willi

Response:

I am a believer. Force Fins are the best.

    I agree. If you do much float tubing where I live, you are going to find yourself out on the water when the wind picks up to 40-60 mph, and as often as not it will blow you away from your put-in spot. When I used Caddis fins I was unable to overcome the wind, and I usually ended up walking back from the far side of the lake. With Force fins I can power my way into a pretty stiff headwind and save myself a three mile walk (usually through a marsh, wearing neoprenes and carrying a tube, fins, and rod).

Response:

Any body with two sets of fins and a GPS could run a test for us.

Yeah. That’ll happen.

Response:

Has anyone done any testing to compare these fins.  I noticed the other day that my hand held GPS will show the speed, even for slow things like belly boats and turtles.  I checked out my pontoon/kayak boat and found I could paddle it at a max of about 2.5mph.  I’m sure belly boats are slower, but I wonder what the relative speed is with different fins. Ever heard of a test being run? Any body with two sets of fins and a GPS could run a test for us. Thanks Chas

…  snip … Do[n't] feel alone, this happens all the time. There is nothing like the Force Fin for float tubes and pontoon boats. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

Fix underscore in address to reply

Response:

   good vibes to you

As long as they’re not in the doc’s hands. <g Good luck DT. — Charlie…

Response:

Hello All, I use to do lots of float tubing but in the last decade I have done more fishing from small boats. Last spring, I took my wife out for her first time ever float tubing. We were both in fairly similar V-boats but I gave her the Force Fins($100) and I had a pair of Caddis fins($40). I felt with our difference in "horse power" that it would be about an equal race. Well, I could never keep up with her and I tried so hard to catch her I almost killed myself. I was "steaming" to the back of a small lake to get to a fishing spot where a small stream comes in. I made a straight line and kicked with everything I had. My wife would come by me and then make circles around me, talking all the time about how fun this was and I still could not "leave her in the dust" ??? I am a believer. Force Fins are the best. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone done any testing to compare these fins.  I noticed the other day that my hand held GPS will show the speed, even for slow things like belly boats and turtles.  I checked out my pontoon/kayak boat and found I could paddle it at a max of about 2.5mph.  I’m sure belly boats are slower, but I wonder what the relative speed is with different fins. Ever heard of a test being run? Any body with two sets of fins and a GPS could run a test for us. Thanks Chas …  snip … Do[n't] feel alone, this happens all the time. There is nothing like the Force Fin for float tubes and pontoon boats. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com Fix underscore in address to reply

Response:

FWIW, I really like the adjustable Force Fins. They fit better over wading boots.  The regular Force fins seem to fit better if you just wear a small neoprene bootie. bruce h

Response:

Hi Dick, We sell them one a time for 50% of the cost of a pair. Just call our USA toll free number and tell us what size and right or left fin? We carry the Original and the Adjustable in black only. 1-800-400-0359 We can ship one to you tomorrow any where in the USA. Do feel alone, this happens all the time. There is nothing like the Force Fin for float tubes and pontoon boats. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jump’n cheese & crackers, got all muddy! I bought a pair of force fins many, many years ago, and haven’t paid much attention to new products for just about as long.  After a gazillion near misses of loosing my fins, (force fins sink), I finally lost one.  In case your wondering, yes, I did have them tethered, and no, that wasn’t good enough.  Somehow slipped it’s snap  in the middle of a fight with a 20" rainbow.  I think the fish did it. Anyhoo, onto why I’m writing: Criminy, those fins got expensive!  I like them a lot but fer cry’n out loud, when I bought mine I’m sure it was less than fifty bucks. Depending on the model, they want nearly three times that today. The two models I’m looking at are the originals and the Adjustable Deluxe.  The least expensive Adjustable Deluxe pair I could find was from Cabella’s at $125.  Replacing the originals is $100. I know I haven’t stayed up with the latest and greatest (I bet I look like an antique dealer when I go fishing) so I’m wondering if the Adjustable force fins are worth the dough? Anyone out there had experience with both? Lastly, is there anyone out there with a single medium size original force fin with buckle on the right side? Thanks, – Dick

Response:

Jump’n cheese & crackers, got all muddy!

        what the fuck do you think this is—the mickey mouse club? wayno

Response:

Jump’n cheese & crackers, got all muddy!    what the fuck do you think this is—the mickey mouse club? wayno

hey, Boy Lawyer! I thought there was a cardinal rule among people of your occupation about never asking a question unless you already know the answer.

Response:

Jump’n cheese & crackers, got all muddy!        what the fuck do you think this is—the mickey mouse club? wayno hey, Boy Lawyer! I thought there was a cardinal rule among people of your occupation about never asking a question unless you already know the answer.

        hey, man, i will bust your ass for that response…if you promise me that you will get through this *last* bit of surgery in good shape!         good vibes to you, from your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

Jump’n cheese & crackers, got all muddy! I bought a pair of force fins many, many years ago, and haven’t paid much attention to new products for just about as long.  After a gazillion near misses of loosing my fins, (force fins sink), I finally lost one.  In case your wondering, yes, I did have them tethered, and no, that wasn’t good enough.  Somehow slipped it’s snap  in the middle of a fight with a 20" rainbow.  I think the fish did it. Anyhoo, onto why I’m writing: Criminy, those fins got expensive!  I like them a lot but fer cry’n out loud, when I bought mine I’m sure it was less than fifty bucks.   Depending on the model, they want nearly three times that today.   The two models I’m looking at are the originals and the Adjustable Deluxe.  The least expensive Adjustable Deluxe pair I could find was from Cabella’s at $125.  Replacing the originals is $100. I know I haven’t stayed up with the latest and greatest (I bet I look like an antique dealer when I go fishing) so I’m wondering if the Adjustable force fins are worth the dough? Anyone out there had experience with both? Lastly, is there anyone out there with a single medium size original force fin with buckle on the right side? Thanks, – Dick

Response:

Question:

I picked up a fly tying kit and tied my first fly… boy.. is it ugly !!! I think I shall call it ‘Dan’s Swamp Critter’. Why wife asked what it was.. I said "a fly". She said, "I know, but all of your other fly’s look like something". Can anyone recommend a good book on tying different streamer patterns ? Thank in advance, -Dan-

Response:

Can anyone recommend a good book on tying different streamer patterns ?

        Joseph Bates, Jr.’s book on fly tying and fly fishing streamers has just be republished by Stackpole books. This is the most complete streamer pattern, history, fishing technique book on the subject.

Response:

(snip) Starlings provide excellent dryfly wing material.  The secondaries are very good semi-translucent grey,  and are just great for upwinged dryflies.  I like to use matching pairs, one from same feather either wing of the same bird for my flies. The breast feathers of starlings make great soft hackles for wet flies, particularly spider type flies,  say Black & Peacock spider.

How about a tad more particulars on which feathers to use and how to prepare them?  Sounds like a plethera of very useful, inexpensive material here.  Specifically, what patterns of flys? — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

Wolfie, You got that right, I went wild when I got my first Ringneck Pheasant rooster skin. I even invented a couple of flies which I still use today.  As for the Phoenix skin, the last one of those rose from the ashes along with G’s rods. Ernie

<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -The Ring Neck is the only pheasant who’s feathers are used extensively for a wide variety of patterns <snip Wolfgang still looking for a whole phoenix skin

Response:

Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers.

Starlings are just great for flytying,  and so long as my .22 airrifle works,  and I throw some bread on my lawn,  I’ll always have a plentiful supply of their feathers.  I assume that the European starling is the same as the American one:  small medium blackish bird with pointy beak & greasyish sheen to feathers.  The birds waddle on the ground one foot after the other,  and not hopping at all.  The breast feathers in winter adopt a spotted appearance,  actually, the dark feathers get a pale tip to them. They are generally rowdy in garden behaviour,  and squawk unpleasantly. They sit on my roof top aerial and crap all over my roof skylight window. Starlings provide excellent dryfly wing material.  The secondaries are very good semi-translucent grey,  and are just great for upwinged dryflies.  I like to use matching pairs, one from same feather either wing of the same bird for my flies. The breast feathers of starlings make great soft hackles for wet flies, particularly spider type flies,  say Black & Peacock spider.

Response:

I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers.

Starlings are a source of feathers commonly used as a substitute for jungle cock eyes for us po folks. Wolfgang who’s yer daddy, clarice?

Response:

Hi Group A friend of mine swears by Starling feathers. Doesn’t show his flies around a lot but I’ve seen his rod bent a few times. Good price too! Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You can say that again.   These sonsabitches even have me looking at roadkill, though I have thus far resisted any temptation to pull over.   My mother-in-law’s dog managed to kill a hapless possum in her yard, and my first thought was "dubbing".   God help you Bruce, and congrats. Joe F. Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

Mike, They are European Starlings.  Some damn fool imported them along with the English Sparrow and they have destroyed farm crops ever since.  A bunch of them even brought down an airliner.  I am glad to hear they are good for something. Ernie "Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Starlings are just great for flytying,  and so long as my .22 airrifle works,  and I throw some bread on my lawn,  I’ll always have a plentiful supply of their feathers.  I assume that the European starling is the same as the American one:  small medium blackish bird with pointy beak & greasyish sheen to feathers.  The birds waddle on the ground one foot after the other,  and not hopping at all.  The breast feathers in winter adopt a spotted appearance,  actually, the dark feathers get a pale tip to them. They are generally rowdy in garden behaviour,  and squawk unpleasantly. They sit on my roof top aerial and crap all over my roof skylight window. Starlings provide excellent dryfly wing material.  The secondaries are very good semi-translucent grey,  and are just great for upwinged dryflies.  I like to use matching pairs, one from same feather either wing of the same bird for my flies. The breast feathers of starlings make great soft hackles for wet flies, particularly spider type flies,  say Black & Peacock spider.

Response:

Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

Response:

Congrats!  The real thrill will come when you catch a fish on a fly you tied yourself! Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

Response:

Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

…..Fade to black as voice over starts: "Sure boys and girls, it looks like fun……sounds like something you might want to try, right?  Besides, everybody else is doing it, right? Maybe just this one time.  Hey, you can quit any time you want, right? What harm can it possibly do?  It’s just recreational!  And hey, it …..Fade in on the other side of the tracks….. Hi, my name is Wolfgang…..

Response:

…..Fade in on the other side of the tracks….. Hi, my name is Wolfgang…..

        fucking wonderful wayno

Response:

Bruce, You’re hrerby officially hooked on flytying. Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. Have fun! Herman, been there, and haven’t been able to loose it since. Holy crap!  I just tied my first fly ever!!!!!  Nothing terribly exciting…just a little ol’ sow bug.  Oh boy, this is really exciting now!!!!!!  What’s the first thing I do?  Call my lovely wife at work and ask her to kindly stop by the fly shop on her way home from work and pick up some dark dubbing and lead wire.  oooh boy oooh boy oooh boy!!! Bruce Thomsen

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

reads like a TA (Tiers Anonymous) add.. Herman …..Fade to black as voice over starts: "Sure boys and girls, it looks like fun……sounds like something you might want to try, right?  Besides, everybody else is doing it, right? Maybe just this one time.  Hey, you can quit any time you want, right? What harm can it possibly do?  It’s just recreational!  And hey, it …..Fade in on the other side of the tracks….. Hi, my name is Wolfgang…..

–         Cheers, Herman         Herman Nijland         Daytime webmaster         Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Bruce, You’re hrerby officially hooked on flytying. Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. Have fun! Herman, been there, and haven’t been able to loose it since.

You can say that again.   These sonsabitches even have me looking at roadkill, though I have thus far resisted any temptation to pull over.   My mother-in-law’s dog managed to kill a hapless possum in her yard, and my first thought was "dubbing".   God help you Bruce, and congrats. Joe F.

Response:

Bruce, You’re hrerby officially hooked on flytying. Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. Have fun! Herman, been there, and haven’t been able to loose it since.    Cheers, Herman    Herman Nijland    Daytime webmaster    Lifetime flyfisher

I’m still getting my junk together, hope to start tieing sometime Christmas morning (after the presents are opened).  Herman’s comments got me to wondering abpout C&R and fly tieing.  I just acquired an Amherst neck and pair of wings (whatever the hell an Amherst is) and a Golden Pheasant skin.  Now, I’m sure the Pheasant and the Amherst thing are not running around naked in the snow.  Somebody is eating those thigs (if you eat Amherst).  Are we killing animals to C&R little fishes?  I have been given the go-ahead to dissect a full-length mink coat hanging in the closet and left over from previous management for the fur strips.  I’m going to try to use as much already dead stuff as I can that I find laying around, but it appears at some point in time the fly tier has to cause something to get killed. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

You can say that again.   These sonsabitches even have me looking at roadkill, though I have thus far resisted any temptation to pull over.   My mother-in-law’s dog managed to kill a hapless possum in her yard, and my first thought was "dubbing".   God help you Bruce, and congrats. Joe F.

Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

Oh, man, between my two black cats, one Russian Blue, and my sister-in-law’s Bruce Thomsen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever.

Response:

Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

You might think that this is a joke, but they actually sell that kind of bird house.  People serious about bluebirds have houses of death that attract species that compete with bluebirds and dispatch them.  For example, see the plans for a starling trap at: http://forum.purplemartin.org/newpage4.htm –Stan

Response:

Reading anbout fly patterns I see a lot of reference to Starling feathers.  Since Starlings are basically an overpopulation nuisance species in many locals I’m looking at buying a couple of bird houses with lift-off tops which make it easy to set a mouse trap inside.

I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers. Joe F.

Response:

Lissen up Qwezy, I intend to make sure you suffer along with the rest of us that are hooked on tying flies….in January I will announce the 2nd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2001, and I demand that you sign up and participate in this swap.  Once you receive your box of flies tied by some primo tyers in this bunch, you will be hooked for good and all.  I’m a newbie 5 thumbed tier meself, and nobody called out a lynching mob for my raggedy assed contribution. (yet)  So stay tuned, things are gonna get interesting for you in a few weeks. Frank (Ye Olde Gray Tired Swapmeister) Church

Oh, man, between my two black cats, one Russian Blue, and my sister-in-law’s Bruce Thomsen Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever.

—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

You might think that this is a joke, but they actually sell that kind of bird house.  People serious about bluebirds have houses of death that attract species that compete with bluebirds and dispatch them.  For example, see the plans for a starling trap at: http://forum.purplemartin.org/newpage4.htm –Stan

Stan, growing up in Newport News, VA we learned early on the Purple Martin housing and Starling competition was SERIOUS business.  Purple Martins are key players in mosquito control.  For most people in the South, Starlings are a disposable pest. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

….I just acquired an Amherst neck and pair of wings (whatever the hell an Amherst is) and a Golden Pheasant skin…..

The Lady Amherst is another variety of pheasant.  In my manic tying material acquisition phase I managed to get complete skins from 4 or 5 species of pheasant.  Most of them are quietly moldering in a box somewhere.  Each of them offers feathers for a few specific patterns, but aside from that they are just pretty to look at.  Much better to buy loose feathers for your gray ghosts, etc.  The Ring Neck is the only pheasant who’s feathers are used extensively for a wide variety of patterns.  Virtually all of them have common uses.  Of course, one can always experiment with the lovely feathers from all the others, by my own experience and that of all the other tiers I used to hang with suggests that the results will typically be a lot better for show than for catching fish.  Still, practicality has little to do with the whole process, does it?    :) Wolfgang still looking for a whole phoenix skin

Response:

Lissen up Qwezy, I intend to make sure you suffer along with the rest of us that are hooked on tying flies….

Done deal! Bruce (here kitty kitty!) Thomsen

Response:

I’ll second Franks demand. Since practice makes perfect, you improve your tying skills. You are going to half to tie 25 or 30 of a single pattern and you’re likely to see an improvement from as you go. You are going to have some excellent examples to go by. I saved all the flies that I got in the first swap (and will with the current one as well). I tied up many of the flies and fished with the replicas but saved the originals. Paul

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lissen up Qwezy, I intend to make sure you suffer along with the rest of us that are hooked on tying flies….in January I will announce the 2nd Annual Great Fly Swap of 2001, and I demand that you sign up and participate in this swap.  Once you receive your box of flies tied by some primo tyers in this bunch, you will be hooked for good and all.  I’m a newbie 5 thumbed tier meself, and nobody called out a lynching mob for my raggedy assed contribution. (yet)  So stay tuned, things are gonna get interesting for you in a few weeks. Frank (Ye Olde Gray Tired Swapmeister) Church Oh, man, between my two black cats, one Russian Blue, and my sister-in-law’s Bruce Thomsen Be prepared for the next stages, where everything in the house, especially pets, will be looked at as a possible source of killer dubbing/wingmaterial/whatever. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Waynw, Amherst is a breed of pheasant like Golden and Ringneck.  The mink coat sounds good, you are the only tier I know who is starting out with one, . Ernie "Wayne Hart" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m still getting my junk together, hope to start tieing sometime Christmas morning (after the presents are opened).  Herman’s comments got me to wondering abpout C&R and fly tieing.  I just acquired an Amherst neck and pair of wings (whatever the hell an Amherst is) and a Golden Pheasant skin.  Now, I’m sure the Pheasant and the Amherst thing are not running around naked in the snow.  Somebody is eating those thigs (if you eat Amherst).  Are we killing animals to C&R little fishes?  I have been given the go-ahead to dissect a full-length mink coat hanging in the closet and left over from previous management for the fur strips.  I’m going to try to use as much already dead stuff as I can that I find laying around, but it appears at some point in time the fly tier has to cause something to get killed. Wayne

Response:

I haven’t yet gotten into tiny dry flies, so I have to ask, what do you use starling feathers for?   They’re medium sized as birds go, but they’re certainly nowhere near the size of chickens.   You have to be talking about some very small feathers. Joe F.

Olive Biot Nymph (legs whch may or may not be utilized).  The book on fly tying I got from ezflyfish.com (your source for great fly fishing products at fair prices and superlative service) has a number of patterns using Starling feathers and silk thread (probably UK pattern origins). — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine!

Response:

Question:

I’ve used a Discovery 17 regular stern with a motor mount as a fishing "boat" on rivers and small lakes.  A canoe is a great way to get around by paddle.  A motor just doesn’t work all that well, unless you’ve a a fairly wide boat with some kind of keel.  But I’ve done it and would continue to do so, if I couldn’t get my hands on a boat.  And then you’re not talking about a true canoe, anyway. I’d get a carolina skiff or a jonboat for what you want to do.  You’ll be able to stand and move around much more easily.  But if you’re wanting to cartop, then the Sportboat will work.  Just remember that canoes are really for paddling in the 15 to 18 foot size. Best of all, get a river dory, mount a small motor, and you’re set for all kinds of fishing in small lakes and any kind of river.  Great casting platforms.  Great stability.  Can tow with almost any car due to light weight. Mike

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I realy enjoy my guide 147.  I just got an outrigger for additional stability while fishing in lakes.  they work very well and cost about $200, and clamp on, no perminate holes.  One can stand in their canoe with the outrigger…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello was thinking of buying an old town discovery sport 17 foot square stern canoe for fly fishing with my wife.  Does anyone have any comments about this model.  I’m particularly interested in using it for lakes and ponds with a trolling motor at times.  I’m also interested to know how it would handle on slow moving rivers. tia minkaz

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Hello was thinking of buying an old town discovery sport 17 foot square stern canoe for fly fishing with my wife.  Does anyone have any comments about this model.  I’m particularly interested in using it for lakes and ponds with a trolling motor at times.  I’m also interested to know how it would handle on slow moving rivers. tia minkaz

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Having just visited the Old Town web site a couple of days ago, your post caught my eye right away. While I can’t give any personal advice directly, you should check out their site if you haven’t already been there.  It’s exceptional, both with respect to lots of information and also, it’s easy to navigate. Their address is:  http://www.otccanoe.com/ They do have a dealer locator option on their menu choices which may come in handy in case you don’t get the sought after responses to your post here. Regards, Trent Roberson —  Rx F Fish — For your good health, Fly Fish     A Datasource about Fly Fishing Topics            http://www.rxffish.com           Discussion & Chat Groups      http://www.studio128.net/rxffish_1            Free Business Listings Fly Fishing related Companies & Organizations      http://rxffish.com/data_input.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello was thinking of buying an old town discovery sport 17 foot square stern canoe for fly fishing with my wife.  Does anyone have any comments about this model.  I’m particularly interested in using it for lakes and ponds with a trolling motor at times.  I’m also interested to know how it would handle on slow moving rivers. tia minkaz

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Hello was thinking of buying an old town discovery sport 17 foot square stern canoe for fly fishing with my wife.  Does anyone have any comments about this model.  I’m particularly interested in using it for lakes and ponds with a trolling motor at times.  I’m also interested to know how it would handle on slow moving rivers.

I own a Discovery 174 (pointy ends) that I like a lot.   It’s quite stable, tracks well, and lightwei…..     Okay, it’s stable & tracks well. Actually, it weighs in at a mere 84 pounds, & I can handle it myself, but it’s a beast to lift overhead.   I fitted it with a removeable motor mount and a 35# thrust electric motor & it moves right along on lakes.   I expect that a square transom would only make it better for that.   I even did some mild whitewater with it once, but that was hell on the cosmetics – I wouldn’t recommend it.   Slow rivers should be no problem. Joe F.

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Hello was thinking of buying an old town discovery sport 17 foot square stern canoe for fly fishing with my wife.  Does anyone have any comments about this model.  I’m particularly interested in using it for lakes and ponds with a trolling motor at times.  I’m also interested to know how it would handle on slow moving rivers. tia minkaz

I can’t comment on that particular model, but I can tell you my (and my family’s) experience with Old Town has been wonderful,  if about 100 years and at least 3 generations (including a still-used ‘glassed over canvasback) says anything.   As to square sterns, don’t like them.  What we have is a bracket that mounts on the gunwale, and it has handled up to around a 7.5 hp (a 5 or less will do fine, but the dink pusher was handy).  That way, when paddles are in order, you still have a canoe, not a stretched skiff…<G.   That said, if I were buying as a new user (or could only have one) today, I’d at least consider a Grumman (or similar) aluminium – light, manueverable,  you can remove dents with a mallet, and best of all, weldable. Patching ‘glass-type material is a pain, and if you wrap such a boat, it is done. I also went to the site, and Crosslink 3 might be better than ‘glass type materials, but I still think aluminium is the best for a one-boat fleet…<G. HTH? R

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Hello was thinking of buying an old town discovery sport 17 foot square stern canoe for fly fishing with my wife.  Does anyone have any comments about this model.  I’m particularly interested in using it for lakes and ponds with a trolling motor at times.  I’m also interested to know how it would handle on slow moving rivers. tia minkaz: I have a DS17 square stern that we use with an 8 hp motor for Atlantic salmon fishing on large rivers. It is very stable because it is wide, and quite heavy (118 lb).  We also pole it on fast rivers, and it is a bit of a pig in comparison with narrower canoes, but it’s OK.  It would be fine for paddling or running a trolling motor on slow rivers, ponds and small lakes (<250 acres).  I’d go to a DS15 for this.  It will give the stability without so much weight. JB

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a ‘94 short-shart Gamefisher (Force?) that’s been running great since I picked it up at the beginning of tge year. However, the last time I was out,I get a "clack, clack, clack" as I was pulling on the starter rope.  I pushed the trans lever back and forth a couple of times, and it started right up with no"clack" at all. I motored to my fishing spot, cut the motor, making sure I was in neutral, then fished.  When I was ready to pull up, I once again went to start the motor and got the "clack" again.  I was once again able to get rid of the clack by moving the trans lever in and out of gear. Does anyone recognize my problem? Do I have a problem? Will I soon have a problem. Thanks…

There is a safety device system to prevent starting the motor in gear located on the flywheel. As the motor gets older parts get worn and these devices don’t quite work as they use to. The clack clack is a little plastic lever thats connected to the gear shift thats half connecting with the fly wheel. Moving the gear lever as you do helps to put it in the right position. I sugest that you take the cover off the engine and observe how this mechnisium works. Its located on the top of the motor at the back (spark plug end) work the gear lever and you will see the lever and how it works. There is another reason you should know about this is because sometimes the mechinisum jams and you can not pull the cord. If this occurs you take the cover off and manually move the lever out from the flywheel. These safety devices usually fail after a few years (regardless of make). If you are really keen you could set about adjusting it. You will find however that there is a spot on he gear lever where the lever is in the out position. Once you know the spot its just a matter of remembering to put it there before starting the motor. Best of luck Silver fox

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I have a ‘94 short-shart Gamefisher (Force?) that’s been running great since I picked it up at the beginning of tge year. However, the last time I was out,I get a "clack, clack, clack" as I was pulling on the starter rope.  I pushed the trans lever back and forth a couple of times, and it started right up with no"clack" at all. I motored to my fishing spot, cut the motor, making sure I was in neutral, then fished.  When I was ready to pull up, I once again went to start the motor and got the "clack" again.  I was once again able to get rid of the clack by moving the trans lever in and out of gear. Does anyone recognize my problem? Do I have a problem? Will I soon have a problem. Thanks…

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Question:

Nice job, Joe!  You said exactly what I’ve been thinking. The pettyness and personal attacks have gone on too long. IMO, both Ken and George have, in the past, posted many worthwhile comments.  Lately, I’ve been skipping anything by either of them because I’m sick of the off-topic rants. Too bad for me because I’ve probably missed some grains of wisdom. Dave Until now, I wouldn’t touch this subject with a ten foot pole; but it’s Monday and my brain is unwilling to get to work.   So I’m going to make a foolish and probably futile attempt to offer a rational and well-considered opinion on what I see happening here. clipped! Just my $.02 Joe "what was I thinking" Fleischman

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My guess is you won’t be having a drink with each other anytime soon, but try harder.

I’d share a bottle of Laphroig with George anytime. Just my $.02

Worth at least 3 or 4, in my book. — Ken Fortenberry

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I seem to have missed most of this, fortunately! Don’t tell me that private Dick is back, people threatening other subscribers? Not really the done thing is it?? And I thought that game anglers the world over wore tweed, drank Pimms or gin and tonic and smoked cigars! — Regards, Peter

No Peter, You’ve fallen behind a little now!  "The Famous Grouse" is the tipple these days. — Bill

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I don’t listen to anyone whose opinion I don’t respect Bill and that is something that has to be earned. It doesn’t come with a smart mouthed repost on a newsgroup! — Regards, Peter Remove nospam to e-mail www.yachthawkwind.demon.co.uk/peters.htm "We are chosen, we are one  We are frightened of no-one" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don’t understand this answer, probably just as well. Peter, when G speaks, you listen!….:-) — Bill

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Don’t understand this answer, probably just as well. — Regards, Peter Remove nospam to e-mail www.yachthawkwind.demon.co.uk/peters.htm "We are chosen, we are one  We are frightened of no-one" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The question has to be: how do you know this??? — Regards, Peter because it will make you a bigger Dick then all the Richards in the world. Okay, Petah? (shades of betty davis!) that is how you know

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Don’t understand this answer, probably just as well.

 Peter, when G speaks, you listen!….:-) — Bill

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 On-going arguments about the fine points of who is right and why or whose penis is bigger on subjects with no possible resolution waste a lot of time and good feeling here. Just my $.02 Joe "what was I thinking" Fleischman

_______  I assure you, my penis is much bigger then ‘K.F’s’ ; ) Mr. . G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com

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The question has to be: how do you know this??? — Regards, Peter Remove nospam to e-mail www.yachthawkwind.demon.co.uk/peters.htm "We are chosen, we are one  We are frightened of no-one"

  – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -_______  I assure you, my penis is much bigger then ‘K.F’s’ ; ) Mr. . G. — Visit: http://www.gink.com

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The question has to be: how do you know this??? — Regards, Peter

because it will make you a bigger Dick then all the Richards in the world. Okay, Petah? (shades of betty davis!) that is how you know

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It is amazing  how some of you are so two faced and cowardly that lurk among us.  The latest bullshit is going to stop and its going to stop right here.  All of you can either watch or join in.    I am going to do this systematically and point out by time and date the two-faced, lying hypercritical rag-mouth that Fortenberry really is. This will be short and sweet.  The we will move onto the latest news in my and your lives. I will begin by answering K.F’s post about GRAND AMERICAN DEAL OF THE YEAR and then onto one more or two.  It went like this, what he posted. Technically, Spam is unsolicited commercial email. We call Gehrke’s repeated commercial postings to ROFF Spam, but technically it’s Usenet abuse. Spam is illegal in Virginia, other states are considering similar laws. Spam is criminal. What Gehrke does to ROFF is not an actual crime, but a cybercrime. He has Spammed us, of course, and through poor mailing list management allowed others to Spam us. I doubt he’ll do it again. There’s really nothing we can do about ROFF abuse other terminate his account if enough of us bitched about him. I don’t know that it would deter Gehrke in the long run. He’s lost accounts at least once before and he shows no signs of having learned anything from the experience. In my opinion he’s just shooting himself in the foot by advertising here. He makes far more enemies than potential customers by abusing ROFF and in the long run that will be our best defense. Just don’t buy anything from anyone that advertises in ROFF. — Ken Fortenberry Go to this one to see retort.

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correct K.F. about anything.  He knows what he is doing and so does everyone else here.   I just want to make the following points and the subject is closed. 1)  ROFF can police itself.  ROFF knows what ‘KIND’ of tactful commercialism it will tolerate and what it won’t. 2)  The membership is it’s own best format. 3)  I am not a cyber criminal and no further references will be made about me in the future regarding this issue.  I ‘UNINTENTIONALLY’ spammed once but that does not make me a spammer.  This issue is closed and I will not tolerate anyone calling me that again. End of discussion. Mr. G. Now then, on to new and more exciting things.  Let’s have some fun!

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Mr. G wrote 1)  ROFF can police itself.  ROFF knows what ‘KIND’ of tactful commercialism it will tolerate and what it won’t.

My opinion is that the level of commercialism you engage in on ROFF is not tactful.  You step over the line.  But I admit, that’s just one person’s opinion.  Thing is, I believe that many agree with me. Would you consider not advertising your products here if it were clear to you that most people find that many of your posts are too commercial? Like you, I am absolutely against any kind of control of this newsgroup aside from self control.  I just wish that you would exercise the latter. 3)  I am not a cyber criminal and no further references will be made about me in the future regarding this issue.  I ‘UNINTENTIONALLY’ spammed once but that does not make me a spammer.  This issue is closed and I will not tolerate anyone calling me that again.

You are not a cybercriminal.  But you are a spammer according to what I consider to be spam.  If I’m the only one who thinks this, then hey…ignore me.  But I think you’ll find that a significant number of people would classify your commercial posts as spam. —                                                       -dnc-

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But I think you’ll find that a significant number of people would classify

your commercial posts as spam.< True, but it’s *our* spam.  I for one have no problem with a group regular "spamming" the group.  For the most part, I consider that to be information, not spam.  Outsiders are a different thing, of course, but I find George’s posts to be of considerable interest.  And when I don’t, I just go to the next post.  No big deal.  Sure, it takes up some bandwidth, but to me, that’s no problem, ‘tho I realize it has been for others: I hated to see Mike leave the group but I’ve left NGs for various reasons and they seem to have survived.  If I found George’s posts as unwelcome as some seem to, I would just leave.  But then, I have a life to go to. <g

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(snip) <<I hated to see Mike leave the group but I’ve left NGs for various reasons and they seem to have survived.  If I found George’s posts as unwelcome as some seem to, I would just leave.  But then, I have a life to go to. <g   Didn’t Mike leave because of the SPAM received thru e-mail, not the NG?  That’s the way I remember it, but I could be wrong.  George sent two long E-mail spams, followed by the BambooUSA guy picking up all the addresses and sending yet another.  That angered everyone, including George’s sycophants.   Dave LaCourse

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Mike emailed me that he left because of the amount of SPAM on ROFF.  He pays by time, I believe, and it just cost him too much money for what he got back. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (snip) <<I hated to see Mike leave the group but I’ve left NGs for various reasons and they seem to have survived.  If I found George’s posts as unwelcome as some seem to, I would just leave.  But then, I have a life to go to. <g   Didn’t Mike leave because of the SPAM received thru e-mail, not the NG?  That’s the way I remember it, but I could be wrong.  George sent two long E-mail spams, followed by the BambooUSA guy picking up all the addresses and sending yet another.  That angered everyone, including George’s sycophants. Dave LaCourse

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Didn’t Mike leave because of the SPAM received thru e-mail, not the NG?  

The email problems were after he left, I think. People were emailing him for advice and asking him to write poems (he never did name names). The initial problem was roff spam, exacerbated by the person we’re not allowed to call a spammer any more or he’ll kick our butt<g. — Charlie…

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Mike emailed me that he left because of the amount of SPAM on ROFF.  He pays by time, I believe, and it just cost him too much money for what he got back.

Excuse the intrusion, but I would appreciate it if the subject header did not include my name. HOT DAMN, Illini 32 Ohio State 27 at the half. If the men in Orange & Blue pull this one off I may just have to drive up to Chicago and watch tomorrow’s game in person. — Ken Fortenberry

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I seem to have missed most of this, fortunately! Don’t tell me that private Dick is back, people threatening other subscribers? Not really the done thing is it?? And I thought that game anglers the world over wore tweed, drank Pimms or gin and tonic and smoked cigars! — Regards, Peter "There is a Demon within us  whose soul belongs to hell  Won’t someone save us sinners" "The sun goes down"

<snip  names). The initial problem was roff spam, exacerbated by the person – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -we’re not allowed to call a spammer any more or he’ll kick our butt<g. — Charlie…

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I seem to have missed most of this, fortunately! Don’t tell me that private Dick is back, people threatening other subscribers? Not really the done thing is it?? And I thought that game anglers the world over wore tweed, drank Pimms or gin and tonic and smoked cigars!

No, nothing that sinister, just George. He has irritated some people and been irritated by some people. Words and spam have been exchanged. Unfortunately, some good folks have decided to forgo roff as part of their daily diet. ‘Business’ as usual on roff<g. — Charlie…

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 If I found George’s posts as unwelcome as some seem to, I would just leave.  But then, I have a life to go to. <g

That’s one option, and the one most often recommended. Unfortunately one cannot go to rec.crafts.dollhouses and discuss fly fishing. If you want to dicsuss fly fishing on Usenet, this is the place. If you see malfeasance here you either speak up or accept it. I choose the former. — Ken Fortenberry

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Naw — they drink Macallan Scotch and smoke pipes. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I seem to have missed most of this, fortunately! Don’t tell me that private Dick is back, people threatening other subscribers? Not really the done thing is it?? And I thought that game anglers the world over wore tweed, drank Pimms or gin and tonic and smoked cigars!

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Until now, I wouldn’t touch this subject with a ten foot pole; but it’s Monday and my brain is unwilling to get to work.   So I’m going to make a foolish and probably futile attempt to offer a rational and well-considered opinion on what I see happening here. Firstly George, I’ll state up front that I generally like you and find your informational posts helpful.   Your willingness to share your knowledge and opinions are a positive contribution to this newsgroup.   However: 1)  ROFF can police itself.  ROFF knows what ‘KIND’ of tactful commercialism it will tolerate and what it won’t.

This is quite true.   The is no point to "rules" because there is no practical way to enforce them.   When we see behavior we object to, our best alternative is to publicly inform the offender.   If enough people join in the objection, we can hope that the offending party will realize that he/she has stepped over the line of commonly accepted behavior.   If no one else objects, we must consider that our personal standards may not be congruent with those of the ng as a whole. Now George, I think it has been clear that while your abundant commercial posts were also informational and  accepted without comment by many, a significant portion of the ng had a problem with them.   I think that the number of posts (no, I didn’t count them) complaining or otherwise commenting on your "over-commercialism" and even using the "S" word should have been an indication to you that you had stepped over the line into a kind of tactful commercialism that the group didn’t tolerate.   Even I nearly put you in my kill file, and I like you.   For ROFF to be able to police itself, people must be occasionally willing to back off and look at what the ng is really telling them. George and Ken F. –  I have been somewhat amazed that many of your posts have been extremely thoughtful and intelligent, yet some of your personal attacks on each other were so far over the line as to defy logic.   Many here cannot espouse a rational opinion without personal invective and name-calling, yet you both seem simultaneously capable and irrational at times.   From my observations (more time lurking than posting), nasty personal attacks are neither acceptable to nor appreciated by the ng members.   Sometimes turning the other cheek or taking the high road can do a lot of good toward solving a problem; and you’ve both tried it on occasion.   My guess is you won’t be having a drink with each other anytime soon, but try harder. 2)  The membership is it’s own best format.

We are who we are. 3)  I am not a cyber criminal and no further references will be made about me in the future regarding this issue.  I ‘UNINTENTIONALLY’ spammed once but that does not make me a spammer.  This issue is closed and I will not tolerate anyone calling me that again

I guess all I can say is that you need to trust us more.   Most of us are intelligent folks.  We know what spam is and we know what criminals are. We consider the source.   An extreme example was the dear, departed D-Version.   Who gave a shit what he said?   I think you sometimes defend yourself more vociferously than necessary against irrational posts.   To those who respect you, no defense is necessary.   To those who dislike you, any defense is pointless. On-going arguments about the fine points of who is right and why or whose penis is bigger on subjects with no possible resolution waste a lot of time and good feeling here. Just my $.02 Joe "what was I thinking" Fleischman

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Question:

Hi! Not to spark a debate or anything, but I

Question:

Looking for a  good campsite on a lake or river for fly fishing for trout in Denali,AK.  Will backpack a short distance to campsite.  Are there any cabins on lakes or rivers in or close by Denali that offer good fly fishing?  Thanks for your help!    

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Try Every stream you come to you and you are sure to find some good fishing…. I was never dissapointed in Alaska..

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Question:

i will be near the home of orvis next weekend and don’t have much of a clue. whats a good way to get started ? instructions? or just wing it?   P.S. what flies should I use if i wing it?

Mark, Good questions.  How quickly do you learn? quick….then you can probably just wing it…if not then maybe lessons are not a bad idea.  Most folks benefit from a lesson….reading a book like the LL Bean Fly Fishing Handbook by Whitlock would help. If you are more visually inclined then maybe the Jack Dennis video is better for you. Flies to use now include the elk hair caddis, prince nymphs, white millers, beadhead nymphs, and Adams dries.  This is just the tip of the iceberg so to speak.  I am happy to answer any questions that may arise for you.  Best of luck. James Ehlers Underhill, Vermont Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

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i will be near the home of orvis next weekend and don’t have much of a clue. whats a good way to get started ? instructions? or just wing it?    P.S. what flies should I use if i wing it?

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Question:

Hi, I saw some very small cream colored insects hatching from a resevoir in April.  The trout were going wild about them.  I didn’t pay too much attention to them at the time, though.  They looked all the world like minescule moths to me.  Someone suggested they may be midges.  I though all midges were black.  First, do you have any idea what was hatching? And second, are all midges black?  or do they come in other colors? Thanks, Nicolo

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Hi, I saw some very small cream colored insects hatching from a resevoir in April.  The trout were going wild about them.  I didn’t pay too much attention to them at the time, though.  They looked all the world like minescule moths to me.  Someone suggested they may be midges.  I though all midges were black.  First, do you have any idea what was hatching? And second, are all midges black?  or do they come in other colors? Thanks, NicoloMidges come in a variety of colours with black as only one of the more

common.  If you wish to fish these activity periods whihc I strongly reccomend read lake fishing by kaufmann tie up a bunch of pupae, some long leaders and sit back and wait for the freight train!!! Be very careful, midging has some strong parallels to cocaine… Ian

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Hi, I saw some very small cream colored insects hatching from a resevoir in April.  The trout were going wild about them.  I didn’t pay too much attention to them at the time, though.  They looked all the world like minescule moths to me.  Someone suggested they may be midges.  I though all midges were black.  First, do you have any idea what was hatching? And second, are all midges black?  or do they come in other colors? Thanks, Nicolo

Hi Nicolo Midges comes in a variety of colors including cream/tan and black. Take care and … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products On line catalog – tips & tricks at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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As you discribe the hatch as small moths It sounds like small Caddis not midges. You might look in you local fly shop at a book about the Hatch. I’ve got a small book put out by Orvis that works well to define the hatch. — Larry D. Madison Quote of the week: Life without Black would surely make White blind You. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I saw some very small cream colored insects hatching from a resevoir in April.  The trout were going wild about them.  I didn’t pay too much attention to them at the time, though.  They looked all the world like minescule moths to me.  Someone suggested they may be midges.  I though all midges were black.  First, do you have any idea what was hatching? And second, are all midges black?  or do they come in other colors? Thanks, Nicolo

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Hi, I saw some very small cream colored insects hatching from a resevoir in April.  The trout were going wild about them.  I didn’t pay too much attention to them at the time, though.  They looked all the world like minescule moths to me.  Someone suggested they may be midges.  I though all midges were black.  First, do you have any idea what was hatching? And second, are all midges black?  or do they come in other colors?

Howdy Nicolo, "Minescule moths…" sounds like MicroCaddis ? Were the fish plimpin’ or floppin’ after these bugs ? Any small elk hair caddis would probably work if they were MC… To answer your other question… Midges can be grey, black, tan, red, green and probably many others. Effective midge ties can be devastatingly simple. Here is a tie that I have refined over the winter…it is called: You Can See The Damned Thing Biot Packing Midge #18-#22 TMC200 Tail: 2 fibers of fine crystal flash Body: Natural Grey Goose biot ribbed with crystal Legs (hackle): One or Two turns Grizzly dry fly tied shoulder style Wing: Thin strip of closed cell foam (used in shipping electronics)       folded and tied up and out.  (You could color this with       your fav flourescent marker if you had absolutely no pride…) You can see the fricken’ thing because of that unsinkable foam flag… the crystal in the rear looks like a shuck, adds some attraction and the weight of the bend will pull the sparse biot body under a la   natural…drinking glass testing has been encouraging… The first prototype used NewDub instead of crystal for the shuck, but then this would have been a Palamino Midge Variant. Also, pheasant is excellent as midge body material and a very simple fly is nothing more then a small hook wrapped sparsely with a couple of pheasant fibers and a little ball of well waxed dubbing up near the eye…way easy to do… Good luck solving your mystery hatch… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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: Be very careful, midging has some strong parallels to cocaine… No way, man.  I was always way to shaky to tie one of those little buggers on.   But I found I could tie a lot of them, very quickly. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/

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Midges come in lots of colors, but mainly red ones and black ones. White, too. You also could have seeing very small mayflies, down to size 22–tricorhythodes and pseudocolen (I may have misspelled these). Next time, grab a few and see if they have mayfly like tails and wings. toney – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I saw some very small cream colored insects hatching from a resevoir in April.  The trout were going wild about them.  I didn’t pay too much attention to them at the time, though.  They looked all the world like minescule moths to me.  Someone suggested they may be midges.  I though all midges were black.  First, do you have any idea what was hatching? And second, are all midges black?  or do they come in other colors? Thanks, Nicolo

Response:

Hi Nicolo, It sounds like what you saw were Caenis, or as they are commonly termed ‘Fisherman’s Curse’ . It’s a very small fly, and when they hatch off they can do so in their millions, and the trout can become totally preoccupied with them. You can try fishing an imitation pattern, but this is a bit ‘needle in a haystack’, although there are some patterns that look like two or three Caenis tied on one hook. Try picking out an individual fish, (they are usually right up in the surface film, supping them up) and see if you can’t drop your imitation about a foot in front of it. It may take, but it’s a very frustrating business. Alternatively, you could try stripping a brightly coloured Muddler or such like across their noses, and see if you can provoke a take like this! As for midges, they are in the family of Chironomids, commonly called ‘Buzzers’ among other things ( for the noise they make when they fly into your ear!), and they live as bloodworms in the silt of lakes and rivers for a year or two, before eventually turning into pupae, and gradually making for the surface, where they hatch out as the adult ‘Buzzer’. Contrary to popular belief  they don’t bite or suck your blood, like Mosquitos do, as they have no mouth parts as such.They are a staple diet of most trout, and you can always catch a trout or two on them when all else fails. They come in various colours, ranging from black through to green, red, even orange, although if you have a chat with a local at your reservoir, they tell you the commonest colours there, as they vary around the country. I’ve caught the majority of my fish on the buzzer, and it’s a very rewarding way of fishing. Hope this is of some help.

Response:

Hi Nicolo, It sounds like what you saw were Caenis, or as they are commonly termed ‘Fisherman’s Curse’ . It’s a very small fly, and when they hatch off they can do so in their millions, and the trout can become totally preoccupied with them. You can try fishing an imitation pattern, but this is a bit ‘needle in a haystack’, although there are some patterns that look like two or three Caenis tied on one hook. Try picking out an individual fish, (they are usually right up in the surface film, supping them up) and see if you can’t drop your imitation about a foot in front of it. It may take, but it’s a very frustrating business. Alternatively, you could try stripping a brightly coloured Muddler or such like across their noses, and see if you can provoke a take like this! As for midges, they are in the family of Chironomids, commonly called ‘Buzzers’ among other things ( for the noise they make when they fly into your ear!), and they live as bloodworms in the silt of lakes and rivers for a year or two, before eventually turning into pupae, and gradually making for the surface, where they hatch out as the adult ‘Buzzer’. Contrary to popular belief  they don’t bite or suck your blood, like Mosquitos do, as they have no mouth parts as such.They are a staple diet of most trout, and you can always catch a trout or two on them when all else fails. They come in various colours, ranging from black through to green, red, even orange, although if you have a chat with a local at your reservoir, they tell you the commonest colours there, as they vary around the country. I’ve caught the majority of my fish on the buzzer, and it’s a very rewarding way of fishing. Hope this is of some help.

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Question:

My wife and I just took up this wonderful sport, we’re taking a flyfishing class and buying, buying, buying [8 ).  I have a question about rod weight.  We want to fish lakes and streams for trout but also have a desire to fish for steelhead (I used to "crank and cable" angle the mighty fish in the Mad River, CA).  We are leaning toward a 5/6 weight, 9 ft. rod but it is probably too light for steelhead.  On the other hand, if we go to a 6/7 weight, 9 ft. rod will it also be suitable for the lighter fish, and in fact will this weight be heavy enough for steelhead?  We really don’t have enough $$ to be buying two (x two people) rods. Any help in this matter will be greatly appreciated.  I haven’t seen an FAQ on this newsgroup so if it is a FAQ then "Flame on". Thanks in Advance Mark — Mark Hemphill-Haley 1272 Department of Geological Sciences University of Oregon Eugene, Oregon 97403-1272

Response:

I just started on this sport myself.  On the other hand, my friend has some good experience under his belt.  Believe it or not!  he has been using weight 6 with 9 feet in length to catch fish range from pink salmon (not King salmon) to trouts.   He had used it for many years while living in Alaska and didn’t have any problem (may be he hasn’t tell me about it yet) Anyway, it depends on your body frame.  If you have a average body frame say 5′7" and weight about 150, I recommend a rod with weigh 6 and 9′ in length.  This is a normal fly rod for beginners anyway.  One thing for sure, don’t buy any rod shorter than 9 feet because you will end up regretted once you pick up some skill.  Also, those fly rods for steelhead/salmon are quite larger, so it can wear your arm out over a long period of flipping it back and forth. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My wife and I just took up this wonderful sport, we’re taking a flyfishing class and buying, buying, buying [8 ).  I have a question about rod weight.  We want to fish lakes and streams for trout but also have a desire to fish for steelhead (I used to "crank and cable" angle the mighty fish in the Mad River, CA).  We are leaning toward a 5/6 weight, 9 ft. rod but it is probably too light for steelhead.  On the other hand, if we go to a 6/7 weight, 9 ft. rod will it also be suitable for the lighter fish, and in fact will this weight be heavy enough for steelhead?  We really don’t have enough $$ to be buying two (x two people) rods. Any help in this matter will be greatly appreciated.  I haven’t seen an FAQ on this newsgroup so if it is a FAQ then "Flame on". Thanks in Advance Mark — Mark Hemphill-Haley 1272 Department of Geological Sciences University of Oregon Eugene, Oregon 97403-1272

Response:

A 6-weight is a good multi-purpose rod which you can use for drys as well as streamers.  It will work fine for the smaller trout which prevail in the Sierra Nevada streams, although my "standard" Sierra rod is a 3-weight.  However, you probably cannot get a good compromise if you want to fish for steelhead and trout. — Law Office of John L. Dodd Tustin, CA

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