Question:

I view newsgroups first as a source of volunteer information, and second as a source of chit chat and entertainment.  Some view it just the opposite, and that’s OK with me.  Flaming is part of the entertainment sometimes.  But lately I’ve had negative thoughts about people, personally, based on what they post here, and that has never happened to me before.  Too much bandwidth wasted trying to make other people seem stupid.  I don’t even have enough time right now for all the stuff I love in life, let alone something that’s kind of a bummer.  So… time to take a break for awhile. But… I thought it might be a good chance to lay out some good vibes and thanks.  I’ve learned a lot about things on topic and off.  Thanks to all the volunteer informers and educators!  Keep it up.  There are people listening and lurking even if you don’t know, and it’s appreciated.  I’ve also enjoyed hearing other wide-ranging *objective* points of view – again, on topic and off.  I *definitely* look forward to meeting the friends I made at the claves again sometime and fishing or just bullshitting.  Special thanks to Walt, Warren, and Dave for organizing the claves – I loved ‘em!  I hope it’s not too early to wish everyone happy holidays – hope you get your favorite fly fishing equipment for Xmas! obroff:  May the man who will help our sport the most win the US election (er.. or at least may the worst man lose.)  And if you can’t fish, may your winter reading and tying hold you over.  And may your next fish take you into your backing… or at least give you a few good vibes! Tight lines, JeffC1.474×10**3

Response:

Hasn’t anyone told you that now you’ve claved, you can’t leave.  It’s in the fine print. Peter

____  You sure could have fooled me Pete.  LOL! — George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

Sorry to see ya go Jeff but I understand. Thanks for your help and opinions offered in the past. Tight lines. Natty Before you buy.

Response:

Hasn’t anyone told you that now you’ve claved, you can’t leave.  It’s in the fine print. Peter ____  You sure could have fooled me Pete.  LOL!

How would you know? You’ve never worked up the cajones to attend a conclave. ps: That lipstick on your exhaust pipe wasn’t from a woman.

Response:

So… time to take a break for awhile. You can take the man out of roff…but it is impossible to take roff out of the man. I wish I had thought of that!   ___  Good to have you around needling the junk yard dogs TBone.

The only junk yard dogs ’round here are those hanging out in your crazed mind.

Response:

ps: That lipstick on your exhaust pipe wasn’t from a woman.

And it probably included huge gobs of dried-up Skoal. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Jeff said he’d take a break "for awhile". He’ll be back i’m sure.  In the meantime I’ve been reading lots of good fishing stuff on ROFF lately. Jeff, keep me posted when you’re visiting NM. bruce h PS:  Doc, Around here we spell it COJONES. Before you buy.

Response:

Maybe they *are* getting a grip. Why should they continue to tune into this newsgroup if it’s not satisfying their reasons for reading it?

No reason at all, Steve, other than the fact that they have a lot of friends here who’d like to hear from them from time to time. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Let’s just get a grip, OK? Jeff? Mike Conner? Vern? Warren? Deanbot? Where are you? Maybe they *are* getting a grip. Why should they continue to tune into this newsgroup if it’s not satisfying their reasons for reading it? –Steve

BINGO!!! Before you buy.

Response:

So… time to take a break for awhile.

You can take the man out of roff…but it is impossible to take roff out of the man. Your pal, — Halfordian Golfer It is impossible to catch and release a wild trout. A cash flow runs through it.

Response:

Hasn’t anyone told you that now you’ve claved, you can’t leave.  It’s in the fine print. Peter

Response:

So… time to take a break for awhile. You can take the man out of roff…but it is impossible to take roff out of the man.

I wish I had thought of that!   ___  Good to have you around needling the junk yard dogs TBone. — George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/

Response:

Walt’s right Jeff ol’ boy, you live through a lot worse in the beginning! — Op         –Absence and death are the same–only that in death there is no suffering.         –Walter S. Landor

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I view newsgroups first as a source of volunteer information, and second as a source of chit chat and entertainment.  Some view it just the opposite, and that’s OK with me.  Flaming is part of the entertainment sometimes.  But lately I’ve had negative thoughts about people, personally, based on what they post here, and that has never happened to me before.  Too much bandwidth wasted trying to make other people seem stupid.  I don’t even have enough time right now for all the stuff I love in life, let alone something that’s kind of a bummer.  So… time to take a break for awhile. But… I thought it might be a good chance to lay out some good vibes and thanks.  I’ve learned a lot about things on topic and off.  Thanks to all the volunteer informers and educators!  Keep it up.  There are people listening and lurking even if you don’t know, and it’s appreciated.  I’ve also enjoyed hearing other wide-ranging *objective* points of view – again, on topic and off.  I *definitely* look forward to meeting the friends I made at the claves again sometime and fishing or just bullshitting.  Special thanks to Walt, Warren, and Dave for organizing the claves – I loved ‘em!  I hope it’s not too early to wish everyone happy holidays – hope you get your favorite fly fishing equipment for Xmas! obroff:  May the man who will help our sport the most win the US election (er.. or at least may the worst man lose.)  And if you can’t fish, may your winter reading and tying hold you over.  And may your next fish take you into your backing… or at least give you a few good vibes! Tight lines, JeffC1.474×10**3 ahhhhhh bullshit! if you bug out, after having the cojones to show up at spring as your accelerating face-first towards that ominous grey granite boulder, i wish you the time to think… "ahwwwwwww..sheeeeeeettttt, i’m wearin’ a richardsons!" <g tl, walt

Response:

Come back and see us soon Jeff. Darin

Response:

Come back and see us soon Jeff. Darin

What? Did Jeff sign out of ROFF? I just can’t believe you guys. The last person I’d have expected to be thin skinned was JeffC, What a bunch of pussy sissy boys! Can’t stand to have certain combinations of characters displayed on computer sceens. Yuck! Let’s just get a grip, OK? Jeff? Mike Conner? Vern? Warren? Deanbot? Where are you? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Come back and see us soon Jeff. Darin What? Did Jeff sign out of ROFF? Let’s just get a grip, OK? Jeff? Mike Conner? Vern? Warren? Deanbot? Where are you?

I second the sentiment. Willi

Response:

Jeff, that library downtown is full of books I’ll never read…… john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I view newsgroups first as a source of volunteer information, and second as a source of chit chat and entertainment.  Some view it just the opposite, and that’s OK with me.  Flaming is part of the entertainment sometimes.  But lately I’ve had negative thoughts about people, personally, based on what they post here, and that has never happened to me before.  Too much bandwidth wasted trying to make other people seem stupid.  I don’t even have enough time right now for all the stuff I love in life, let alone something that’s kind of a bummer.  So… time to take a break for awhile. But… I thought it might be a good chance to lay out some good vibes and thanks.  I’ve learned a lot about things on topic and off.  Thanks to all the volunteer informers and educators!  Keep it up.  There are people listening and lurking even if you don’t know, and it’s appreciated.  I’ve also enjoyed hearing other wide-ranging *objective* points of view – again, on topic and off.  I *definitely* look forward to meeting the friends I made at the claves again sometime and fishing or just bullshitting.  Special thanks to Walt, Warren, and Dave for organizing the claves – I loved ‘em!  I hope it’s not too early to wish everyone happy holidays – hope you get your favorite fly fishing equipment for Xmas! obroff:  May the man who will help our sport the most win the US election (er.. or at least may the worst man lose.)  And if you can’t fish, may your winter reading and tying hold you over.  And may your next fish take you into your backing… or at least give you a few good vibes! Tight lines, JeffC1.474×10**3

Response:

Let’s just get a grip, OK? Jeff? Mike Conner? Vern? Warren? Deanbot? Where are you?

Maybe they *are* getting a grip. Why should they continue to tune into this newsgroup if it’s not satisfying their reasons for reading it? –Steve

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I view newsgroups first as a source of volunteer information, and second as a source of chit chat and entertainment.  Some view it just the opposite, and that’s OK with me.  Flaming is part of the entertainment sometimes.  But lately I’ve had negative thoughts about people, personally, based on what they post here, and that has never happened to me before.  Too much bandwidth wasted trying to make other people seem stupid.  I don’t even have enough time right now for all the stuff I love in life, let alone something that’s kind of a bummer.  So… time to take a break for awhile. But… I thought it might be a good chance to lay out some good vibes and thanks.  I’ve learned a lot about things on topic and off.  Thanks to all the volunteer informers and educators!  Keep it up.  There are people listening and lurking even if you don’t know, and it’s appreciated.  I’ve also enjoyed hearing other wide-ranging *objective* points of view – again, on topic and off.  I *definitely* look forward to meeting the friends I made at the claves again sometime and fishing or just bullshitting.  Special thanks to Walt, Warren, and Dave for organizing the claves – I loved ‘em!  I hope it’s not too early to wish everyone happy holidays – hope you get your favorite fly fishing equipment for Xmas! obroff:  May the man who will help our sport the most win the US election (er.. or at least may the worst man lose.)  And if you can’t fish, may your winter reading and tying hold you over.  And may your next fish take you into your backing… or at least give you a few good vibes! Tight lines, JeffC1.474×10**3

ahhhhhh bullshit! if you bug out, after having the cojones to show up at spring accelerating face-first towards that ominous grey granite boulder, i wish you the time to think… "ahwwwwwww..sheeeeeeettttt, i’m wearin’ a richardsons!" <g tl, walt

Response:

Question:

Hmmm, wandered the desert on LSD??  Interesting… I could never seem to get beyond the wood grain on the legs of my coffe table….now, maybe I wasn’t getting the good shit ?!?! <g…. YMMV. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

Response:

Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

Obviously not a fly fisher.  Should have read:  "I need bugs".  "I hate wind".

Response:

That response is so brilliant I’m going to try to track him down (been 20 years) and send it to him!

Response:

Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

Response:

Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

 Neat set of friends you hang with Harry Mason www.troutflies.com

Response:

Not fishing related, but I knew a guy who dropped acid on Easter Sunday and wandered around the desert madly scribbling his deep thoughts. The next morning, he woke up in his sleeping bag and eagerly grabbed the notebook to see what his brilliance had rendered. The entire thing read: "I hate bugs. I need wind."

Tell him I know exactly what he means.

Response:

Question:

You might want to fish Cliff and Wade lake from that float tube. Schuh-fly

Response:

Brian Nelson writes:

(snip good info) With closer inspection, one will find the seams and riffles just like any other freestone, only on a larger, more subtle, scale.

Thank you, Brian.  You have confirmed what I thought they might be like.  I am sure there are raging rivers out there, especially during run-off.  Thanks again. Dave LaCourse

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake. Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving. Western Montana topography is characterized by what is called the Broad Valley Rockies. These glacially-carved u-shaped valleys are actually fairly easy gradient (not too steep). This results in rivers which typically are not raging torrents as some people may envision the northern Rockies. The Clark Fork (the largest of the rivers) and the Big Hole, with exceptions, are fairly ‘flat’ rivers. They are still freestone and

subsequently do flood and get scary during runoff, but during the low flow times, are great rivers for getting LONG drifts with a fly. The water is moving at 3 to 5 miles an hour but it is deceiving when it is a flat stretch. With closer inspection, one will find the seams and riffles just like any other

freestone, only on a larger, more subtle, scale. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

Any time you want to floattube rivers just remember how much of you is underwater!! * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Response:

The absolute, definitive, conclusive answer is, "It depends."  I have fished all of the rivers that you mentioned (not that it makes me an expert or anything), and I have to say that it depends on where you look and when you look there.  Henry’s Fork is a big open flat down on the Railroad Ranch section, but is whitewater a few miles upstream in Box Canyon.  Similarly, the Big Hole is pretty easy to wade in August, but is a raging torrent in June.  I fished the Stillwater last August, and it was a pretty gentle river at the time, but has a reputation for killing even expert whitewater kayakers during higher water. This is a broad generalization, but seems to be true for most of the rivers that I fish:  The downstream section is big, flat, and slow;  flows through a wide flat valley with a major highway running nearby, produces the biggest fish, and attracts the most fishermen, and is featured regularly in the flyfishing magazines.  The land is mostly privately owned, but there is usually good public access. The upper section is steeper, faster, and has more whitewater.  It is probably on Forest Service land, but it may be tricky finding a public access point. The fish are smaller and easier to catch, and you have to drive on some bad gravel road and possibly do some hiking to get to the river, so not as many fisherman (or photographers) get there. So anyway, if whitewater is what you like, you can find it on most of the rivers if you know where to look. Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.  You can even float tube some of them.  If you float tubed the Rapid River in Maine, site of this year’s roff Maine Clave, you probably would die!  <g  On much  of the Rapid, a drag free drift will last but a few seconds, but on some of this Montana water, it *looks* like you can get a big long drift.  The difference is even greater when you consider a nymph drift.  Some of the pix show riffles and moderate "fast water", but nothing like I am used to. Now, I don’t mean to start a fight — this ain’t no flame baited post.  I would like to hear from you folks that fish these waters.  I will be at the Western Clave and will probably have my youngest grandson.  I am planning on fishing all of this water, and more if we can fit it in. Dave LaCourse

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.  

Dave, The only one I can talk about is the Henry’s Fork a.k.a. the North Fork (of the Snake).  It is a widely varying river.  It is true that there are places with slow moving water, such as on the Railroad Ranch section and much of the water upstream to Last Chance.  Above this, in Box Canyon, the water is considerably faster.  The water below Ashton Dam is not fast, but is very braided with little foam bubbles that are hard to distinguish from a white post on a parachute Adams <g.  In between these two locations you have Upper and Lower Mesa Falls, which are definitely fast!  They also provide an outstanding view, well worth the drive to see them.  There is a scenic loop off the highway between Island Park and Last Chance which will take you to the falls. I know this isn’t a definitive "fast"or "slow" answer, but the nature of the river changes frequently, depending mostly on the elevation gradient.  Much of the Henry’s Fork is wadeable, unlike the South Fork of the Snake which is a big, deep river.  If you come down to Island Park, Take a side trip to Big Springs, which is the headwaters of the Henry’s Fork.  You can drive to where the water bubbles out of the ground.  There are usually some very large trout there that you can throw worms to (no fishing allowed).  If you have any questions I can answer, let me know. Jeff

Response:

Dave,    After the rivers in Montana leave the mountains the gradient is fairly low as they flow east  Many of the rivers in Idaho have cut such deep canyons with sheer walls it scares the hell out of you when you drive over an old wooden bridge and look down. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.  You can even float tube some of them.  If you float tubed the Rapid River in Maine, site of this year’s roff Maine Clave, you probably would die!  <g  On much  of the Rapid, a drag free drift will last but a few seconds, but on some of this Montana water, it *looks* like you can get a big long drift.  The difference is even greater when you consider a nymph drift.  Some of the pix show riffles and moderate "fast water", but nothing like I am used to. Now, I don’t mean to start a fight — this ain’t no flame baited post.  I would like to hear from you folks that fish these waters.  I will be at the Western Clave and will probably have my youngest grandson.  I am planning on fishing all of this water, and more if we can fit it in. Dave LaCourse

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.  You can even float tube some of them.  If you float tubed the Rapid River in Maine, site of this year’s roff Maine Clave, you probably would die!  <g  On much  of the Rapid, a drag free drift will last but a few seconds, but on some of this Montana water, it *looks* like you can get a big long drift.  The difference is even greater when you consider a nymph drift.  Some of the pix show riffles and moderate "fast water", but nothing like I am used to. Now, I don’t mean to start a fight — this ain’t no flame baited post.  I would like to hear from you folks that fish these waters.  I will be at the Western Clave and will probably have my youngest grandson.  I am planning on fishing all of this water, and more if we can fit it in. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Jeff Shriver writes:

(good descriptions deletes for brev) If you have any questions I can answer, let me know.

Thanks, Jeff.  I am facinated by what I am seeing in these books.  I’ve had them for years and never really looked at them.  Again, thanks.   Dave LaCourse

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.

You’ve already got the right response on the Henry’s Fork from other postings.  The Madison River below Quake Lake is known as the "50 mile riffle."   It is very swift and can be difficult to wade.   The Clark Fork is a free stone river, too.  I’d say keep the float tube in the car, except for Quake Lake and Henry’s Lake.

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large. You’ve already got the right response on the Henry’s Fork from other postings. The Madison River below Quake Lake is known as the "50 mile riffle."   It is very swift and can be difficult to wade.

I was about to post the same. I’ve fished the Madison a few times, always well past any sort of seasonal runoff, and once you get past the campground down to around Rt87 and the old Stagger Ranch section, there’s miles of bubbly stuff that can make drifting a fly a challenge. Trying to think of a section of the Rapid to compare it to…the closest I can think of is the water directly below Lower Dam up to the turn at the Summer House (and not the chub water along the north bank – I mean the roily stuff along the south bank). btw: If you don’t have one of those SOSuspenders Dave, I’d think seriously about investing in the larger one before you try wading the Madison… /daytripper

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers …You can even float tube some of them.

Montana rivers are slow moving? Well maybe.   Dangerously fast white water is seldom good trout habitat. But that doesn’t mean drifting or float tubing Montana rivers is is safe for beginners. Nearly every river on your list does have dangerous stretches you need to know about. Log jams and irrigation dams kill more amateur floaters than white water. Note too that drifting a river is often more dangerous at low water that at high water because you have so little room to maneuver when drifting past tangles of cottonwood logs. I see more inexperienced, fool-hardy floaters every year. During the salmon fly hatch on the Big Hole in 1979 close to 20 driftboats where sunk and bashed to shreds at Brown’s Bridge alone. — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://montana-riverboats.com  */

Response:

writes: Montana rivers are slow moving? Well maybe.   Dangerously fast white water is seldom good trout habitat.

Uh, where did I say it WAS good trout habitat.  From what I have seen in the River Journal books, the water IS slow moving, meadering thru meadows without very many rapids.   But that doesn’t mean drifting or float tubing Montana rivers is is safe for beginners.

Never said it was, Sandy. Never even said I was going to float tube.  If I bring my float tubes, I will used them on ponds/lakes.  What I did say was that the books show float tubers in very placid water.  Three are shown on the Clark Fork in what looks like a pond, not a raging river. Nearly every river on your list does have dangerous stretches you need to know about.

That’s why I have Warren.  <g Log jams and irrigation dams kill more amateur floaters than white water. Note too that drifting a river is often more dangerous at low water that at high water because you have so little room to maneuver when drifting past tangles of cottonwood logs. I see more inexperienced, fool-hardy floaters every year. During the salmon fly hatch on the Big Hole in 1979 close to 20 driftboats where sunk and bashed to shreds at Brown’s Bridge alone.

Dave L.  (not planning on floating anything except a home-tie)      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

I’ve been scanning through some books I have on the following rivers: Madison, Clark Fork, Henry’s Fork, Big Hole, and others.  I have noticed one thing about them –  they all seem to be slow moving rivers, ranging from small to large.   The absence of rapids is obvious.  In fact, in most of the pix, the water looks like it could be a pond or lake.  Now, I am sure there is a current, otherwise it wouldn’t be a river <g.  But I get the impression that they are slow moving.

Western Montana topography is characterized by what is called the Broad Valley Rockies. These glacially-carved u-shaped valleys are actually fairly easy gradient (not too steep). This results in rivers which typically are not raging torrents as some people may envision the northern Rockies. The Clark Fork (the largest of the rivers) and the Big Hole, with exceptions, are fairly ‘flat’ rivers. They are still freestone and subsequently do flood and get scary during runoff, but during the low flow times, are great rivers for getting LONG drifts with a fly. The water is moving at 3 to 5 miles an hour but it is deceiving when it is a flat stretch. With closer inspection, one will find the seams and riffles just like any other freestone, only on a larger, more subtle, scale. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, about 4 weeks ago I received my Notice Of Pendency And Settlement Of Class Action in the Couch vs Brunswick class action suit. Since my last purchase has twin engines I have received 2 claim forms to send in. I am in a greedy mood and wonder why I did not receive forms for the purchases in 95, 96 and 97 as they were all Mercruiser powered boats also. Oh well, two is enough I guess. Anyway here are the choices. I will announce my two choices and wonder what you would choose or what you did choose if you are a member of the suit. I’m curious as to the particulars of this case. What was the reason for the lawsuit? Defective products, overpricing, or something else?

I don’t have any specifics, but the general flavor of the situation indicated anti-competitive pricing and marketing issues.  Had nothing to do with the quality of the products themselves. Russ

Response:

Well, about 4 weeks ago I received my Notice Of Pendency And Settlement Of Class Action in the Couch vs Brunswick class action suit. Since my last purchase has twin engines I have received 2 claim forms to send in. I am in a greedy mood and wonder why I did not receive forms for the purchases in 95, 96 and 97 as they were all Mercruiser powered boats also. Oh well, two is enough I guess. Anyway here are the choices. I will announce my two choices and wonder what you would choose or what you did choose if you are a member of the suit.

I’m curious as to the particulars of this case. What was the reason for the lawsuit? Defective products, overpricing, or something else? BTW the suit is for all consumers who purchased a new Mercruiser stern drive or inboard engine in Tennessee, Alabama, Arizona, California, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, New Mwxico, North Carolina, North Dakota, South dakota, West Virginia, Wisconsin or the District of Columbia during the period from February 17, 1995 through February 16, 1999.

That explains why I didn’t get any notice for my 2 purchases during that time period. I don’t live in any of those states (Which is probably why I didn’t know anything about it). Dave

Response:

Go with the cash…    Nothing tastes better than your favourite beverage bought    by someone else.

Response:

To the rest of you what would you choose and why? If there are any NG members who are participants in the suit will you send in your claims and what did you choose and why. Just curious.

Cash, nothing else on the list fit any real need or desire of mine.  The $100 can always go in the gas tank.  I’ve only got one claim since it corresponds to my ‘97 Sea Ray which was a single.  The ‘99 has twins, but was purchased after the inclusive dates. I might have an explanation as to why you didn’t get claim forms for your earlier purchases.  In my case, I was not the original purchaser of the ‘97. I purchased it slightly used.  However, when I bought it, I paid the nominal fee to MerCruiser to have the warranty and registration changed to my name. I assume MerCruiser tracks the lawsuit claims by engine serial numbers.  I am the guy now registered to that serial number, hence I get the claim form. The odd part is that I don’t own the boat any longer.  The people I sold it to had no reason to change the registration with MerCruiser, since the original factory warranty had expired in the period I owned it.  If the buyers of your previous boats changed the registration with MerCruiser as I did, that could explain why you didn’t get claim forms for those purchases. Russ

Response:

You get a coupon and the lawyers get $333,000,342.

At least, I am sure. Probably very much more. 68 days to go..

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, about 4 weeks ago I received my Notice Of Pendency And Settlement Of Class Action in the Couch vs Brunswick class action suit. Since my last purchase has twin engines I have received 2 claim forms to send in. I am in a greedy mood and wonder why I did not receive forms for the purchases in 95, 96 and 97 as they were all Mercruiser powered boats also. Oh well, two is enough I guess. Anyway here are the choices. I will announce my two choices and wonder what you would choose or what you did choose if you are a member of the suit. BTW the suit is for all consumers who purchased a new Mercruiser stern drive or inboard engine in Tennessee, Alabama, Arizona, California, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, New Mwxico, North Carolina, North Dakota, South dakota, West Virginia, Wisconsin or the District of Columbia during the period from February 17, 1995 through February 16, 1999. The choices are: A. $100.00 cash payment. B. Free Brunswick products – retail value up to $200     Life Vest package ($186.60) suggested retail price.     The package includes 1 XL, 1 L, and 2 M blue/black Quicksilver vests. Each    vest has closed sides, four 1" belts, and denier coated nylon shell covering soft     Ensolite foam.     Kneeboard package ($195.75) suggested retail price.     The package includes one Quicksilver "Hurricane" Kneeboard; one 75′ soft  handled ski rope and four USCG approved Quicksilver boat cushions.     Igloo Cooler ($149.99) suggested retail price.     One 128 qt. Igloo Marine cooler with a foam insulated body and lid, nautical     rope, wood handles and a threaded drain plug.     Brunswick bowling ball and bag ($199.90) suggested retail price.     One Brunswick Attack Zone mid-performance 16 lb bowling ball and one black    Brunswick Zone Pro Double Roller bag.     Zebco Fishing Pacage ($205.00) suggested retail price.     The package includes one 100% graphite 6′ medium action, cork handled spinning rod with metal 4 ball bearing spinning reel; one 5′ 6" medium action,    cork handled casting rod with Quantum Heat 1 ball bearing baitcast reel; one     spincast combo with on-pack camera; one 275 yd., 10 lb Monofilament fishing     line; and one 4" carbon steel hook.     American Camper package ($200.00) suggested retail price.     The package includes four American Camper 29" x 72" fleece lined, full length     zipper sleeping bags; and one American Camper 9′ x 9′ four person dome tent     with rain fly.     Mongoose Mountain Bike ($199.00) suggested retail price.     One adult Mongoose 21 speed mountain bike with dual suspension and 26" unisex frame. All rpoducts are subject to availability. If inventory problems should arise, Brunswick will substitute products within the category of equal or greater value. C. $200 Customer Rebate Coupon     $200.00 consumer rebate coupon, valid for the purchase of any Mercury Marine     Outboard of 60 horsepower or less, to be exercised of or before December 31,     2000. Those are the choices. I have decided to go with the Mongoose mountain bike and the American Camper package. I will be replacing a Huffy mountain bike that was stolen 3 years ago during one of my many trips to Put-in-Bay. I will go with the camper package since all my sleeping bags are at least 10 years old and showing their wear and tear. I don’t know if I will ever use the tent but who knows. I could always sell it I guess. Reasons for not choosing: The $100.00 cash payment. Not really much of an offer there. Once the money is spent it is gone and $200.00 is not going to make or break me. Life vest package. I already have 10 various sizes of life jackets aboard and most are 3 years old or newer. Kneeboard package. I really cannot see myself kneeboarding behind my 30′ Bayliner and besides that I may be to old to learn. Igloo cooler. My boat came with a 64 quart Igloo cooler so I really don’t need another one. Bowling ball and bag. I already own a bowling ball, bag and shoes so it would be redundant. Zebco fishing package. I don’t fish. $200 dollar consumer rebate coupon. I do not anticipate purchasing a new outboard motor anytime soon since I already own a Merc 15 hp motor for my inflatable. To the rest of you what would you choose and why? If there are any NG members who are participants in the suit will you send in your claims and what did you choose and why. Just curious. 68 days to go..

You get a coupon and the lawyers get $333,000,342. — Harry Krause The chance of a piece of bread falling with the buttered side down is directly proportional to the cost of the carpet

Response:

Well, about 4 weeks ago I received my Notice Of Pendency And Settlement Of Class Action in the Couch vs Brunswick class action suit. Since my last purchase has twin engines I have received 2 claim forms to send in. I am in a greedy mood and wonder why I did not receive forms for the purchases in 95, 96 and 97 as they were all Mercruiser powered boats also. Oh well, two is enough I guess. Anyway here are the choices. I will announce my two choices and wonder what you would choose or what you did choose if you are a member of the suit. BTW the suit is for all consumers who purchased a new Mercruiser stern drive or inboard engine in Tennessee, Alabama, Arizona, California, Florida, Kansas, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, New Mwxico, North Carolina, North Dakota, South dakota, West Virginia, Wisconsin or the District of Columbia during the period from February 17, 1995 through February 16, 1999. The choices are: A. $100.00 cash payment. B. Free Brunswick products – retail value up to $200     Life Vest package ($186.60) suggested retail price.     The package includes 1 XL, 1 L, and 2 M blue/black Quicksilver vests. Each    vest has closed sides, four 1" belts, and denier coated nylon shell covering soft     Ensolite foam.     Kneeboard package ($195.75) suggested retail price.     The package includes one Quicksilver "Hurricane" Kneeboard; one 75′ soft    handled ski rope and four USCG approved Quicksilver boat cushions.     Igloo Cooler ($149.99) suggested retail price.     One 128 qt. Igloo Marine cooler with a foam insulated body and lid, nautical     rope, wood handles and a threaded drain plug.     Brunswick bowling ball and bag ($199.90) suggested retail price.     One Brunswick Attack Zone mid-performance 16 lb bowling ball and one black    Brunswick Zone Pro Double Roller bag.     Zebco Fishing Pacage ($205.00) suggested retail price.     The package includes one 100% graphite 6′ medium action, cork handled     spinning rod with metal 4 ball bearing spinning reel; one 5′ 6" medium action,    cork handled casting rod with Quantum Heat 1 ball bearing baitcast reel; one     spincast combo with on-pack camera; one 275 yd., 10 lb Monofilament fishing     line; and one 4" carbon steel hook.     American Camper package ($200.00) suggested retail price.     The package includes four American Camper 29" x 72" fleece lined, full length     zipper sleeping bags; and one American Camper 9′ x 9′ four person dome tent     with rain fly.     Mongoose Mountain Bike ($199.00) suggested retail price.     One adult Mongoose 21 speed mountain bike with dual suspension and 26"     unisex frame. All rpoducts are subject to availability. If inventory problems should arise, Brunswick will substitute products within the category of equal or greater value. C. $200 Customer Rebate Coupon     $200.00 consumer rebate coupon, valid for the purchase of any Mercury Marine     Outboard of 60 horsepower or less, to be exercised of or before December 31,     2000. Those are the choices. I have decided to go with the Mongoose mountain bike and the American Camper package. I will be replacing a Huffy mountain bike that was stolen 3 years ago during one of my many trips to Put-in-Bay. I will go with the camper package since all my sleeping bags are at least 10 years old and showing their wear and tear. I don’t know if I will ever use the tent but who knows. I could always sell it I guess. Reasons for not choosing: The $100.00 cash payment. Not really much of an offer there. Once the money is spent it is gone and $200.00 is not going to make or break me. Life vest package. I already have 10 various sizes of life jackets aboard and most are 3 years old or newer. Kneeboard package. I really cannot see myself kneeboarding behind my 30′ Bayliner and besides that I may be to old to learn. Igloo cooler. My boat came with a 64 quart Igloo cooler so I really don’t need another one. Bowling ball and bag. I already own a bowling ball, bag and shoes so it would be redundant. Zebco fishing package. I don’t fish. $200 dollar consumer rebate coupon. I do not anticipate purchasing a new outboard motor anytime soon since I already own a Merc 15 hp motor for my inflatable. To the rest of you what would you choose and why? If there are any NG members who are participants in the suit will you send in your claims and what did you choose and why. Just curious. 68 days to go..    

Response:

Question:

I am planning a trip to Ixtapa, Mexico in March and was hoping someone might have some information on fly fishing opportunities in the area.  The brochures mainly describe fishing for swordfish, but I am hoping there might be a guide that specializes in fly fishing.  Thanks in advance for your help. Rob

Response:

There are bones and snook and even some tarpon inside the sand bars. BUT!!! be prepared. They re all SMALL. Bones average in 1-2# range with snook averaging only at about 2-3# the only tarpon I have ever caouht or seen there have never been over 10# Dont get me wrong they are all great figters and take a fly readilly but just dont go looking for Keys sized fish there. Have fun with ‘em

Response:

I am visiting Acapulco the week of Feb 6-15 and will be also visiting a lake in the mountains outside of Acapulco…. 1.  where can i find more (basic) info on the saltwater flyfishing opportunities nearby?  i have zero experience in salt water. 2.  can i flyfish in the nearby lakes and what am i likely to catch? PS  Thanks to whomever described the construction of schedule 40 pvc rod tubes.  I went to home depot and  bought all the stuff i needed for two bombproof rod tubes for only $12!  I replaced a couple of cheap black scott rod tubes.  Those things were worthless at temps above 75 degrees, thin, black, abs tubing. I’d love to do some fishing in Mexico….. bruiser

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am visiting Acapulco the week of Feb 6-15 and will be also visiting a lake in the mountains outside of Acapulco…. 1.  where can i find more (basic) info on the saltwater flyfishing opportunities nearby?  i have zero experience in salt water. 2.  can i flyfish in the nearby lakes and what am i likely to catch? PS  Thanks to whomever described the construction of schedule 40 pvc rod tubes.  I went to home depot and  bought all the stuff i needed for two bombproof rod tubes for only $12!  I replaced a couple of cheap black scott rod tubes. Those things were worthless at temps above 75 degrees, thin, black, abs tubing. I’d love to do some fishing in Mexico….. bruiser

Largemouth Bass or cichlids  (Peacock Bass family).  You can’t go wrong with black leach patterns.

Response:

Try www.fish-r-us.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am visiting Acapulco the week of Feb 6-15 and will be also visiting a lake in the mountains outside of Acapulco…. 1.  where can i find more (basic) info on the saltwater flyfishing opportunities nearby?  i have zero experience in salt water. 2.  can i flyfish in the nearby lakes and what am i likely to catch? PS  Thanks to whomever described the construction of schedule 40 pvc rod tubes.  I went to home depot and  bought all the stuff i needed for two bombproof rod tubes for only $12!  I replaced a couple of cheap black scott rod tubes. Those things were worthless at temps above 75 degrees, thin, black, abs tubing. I’d love to do some fishing in Mexico….. bruiser

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hairy Trout writes: Now we have Hairy Trout telling us that "David H is real."  But, who is Hairy Trou?.  Can we trust him?  Is he just another of Mr. G’s aliases? Look in GG’s archives and see if you can find references to Doug Knight. That’s who ‘hairy’ is, he actually went to work with George for a while but things ‘didn’t work out’<g. <g is right. "didn’t work out" may be the understatement of 1999… It’s more like wouldn’t work out. The Company was to be turned over to my control but it wasn’t.  And when it was I was treated as a mere Forman. Big fukin’ Joke. The real fraud was that he was wasting my time. In reality he couldn’t make his mill work. I DID. When I left, my secrets went with me. I figured that the time I spent there was worth at least 15K plus expenses. There were many promises made which were basically worthless. Much like everything else about the operation. Rub the Genies Lamp. What he learned in 8 months I learned in 6 short weeks and that frightened him. There a has been a toughen biting silence on my part since August

All I can say, Doug, is live and learn.  You obviously can not trust some people.  I am willing to bet that Dave H. is either one of George’s employees, or a new found friend not yet corrupted.  I think most appreciate your candid remarks about George and his operation.  Perhaps Dave H.  will soon join you. Dave L.

Response:

And Dave H earns the Plonk of the Week Award. THIS IS SPAMING

<ad nauseum

Response:

THen would he have qualified as a ff’er? If so maybe HE could have shown me how to cast properly and then be able to enjoy more of this sport<G Inner demons have kept me at this game and I am afraid mine will keep me on the river and the tying bench as well. Ghosts of fish to be caught and those that got away will haunt me forever!! Merry Xmas to all Pierre – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – THIS IS SPAMING THIS IS SPAMING THIS IS SPAMING An appropriate simile would be that of Edgar A. Poe.  A brilliant man, a literay giant.  But alas there the simile ends.  For he too was driven by the inner demons.  Suffering bouts alcholic binges, he would abstain and attempt self medication with available depressants, much like some do today with anti-depressants…so ineptly named. The chemical imbalance somewhat interuppted, he would again then be functional for a short while before the manic-depressive personality disorder manifested itself. Thank god he didn’t have the internet……the good would have been lost among the endless drivel. A shame too, that they didn’t have a good twelve step program at that time, for it deals with the manner of ones thinking, the drinking being only a symptom. Who votes that we forward every damned item in this newsgroup to our own….E.A. Poe…oughta occupy his damend fingers for a while, eh?…. by the way….the kid really got off on the norad/santa thing…..thanks for

Response:

<snipped Dave, I did a little investigating.  Mr. David Henney’s ISP is southwind.net, which is based out of Wichita, Kansas and they outsource their news service to bcandid.com.   bc.

Response:

says… THen would he have qualified as a ff’er? If so maybe HE could have shown me how to cast properly and then be able to enjoy more of this sport<G Inner demons have kept me at this game and I am afraid mine will keep me on the river and the tying bench as well. Ghosts of fish to be caught and those that got away will haunt me forever!! Merry Xmas to all Pierre

Ah Pierre, You should not have to complain! I hear it is warmer out your way that this end of the earth! Head out to the outlet from Bonnybrook and do some Catch and Release! The output from the plant is warmer and the trout should still be lingering around there! I am not sure what the water flow is on the Bow now but if I recall correctly it should be pretty low in the winter… — Michael Era

Question:

Hi there I am a 34yo m Aussie Flyfisher looking to find a few E-Mail mates to chat about flyfishing in there part of the world (wherever that may be) I am also an avid collector of Antique Fly Fishing Books so if anyone would like to See Ya Later Glynn Wulff

Howdy Glynn, There are two gents (I being one) that can help you out with some books here at ROFF. Ernie Harrison, who is a frequent poster here, is selling his collection off book by book. You will need to contact him for his list. I am a used, rare, and antiquarian dealer. My specialty categories are Sporting and Natural History. You can view my offerings at www.mercury.net/~wgwinter There will be some major remodelling (if i can get off my duff) going on there shortly to update the listings. Tight lines, Walt

Response:

says… Oh, by the way Walt; please box up and send us all of your World War One and Two unit histories for the Museum.  We also could use a set of Pershing’s memoirs with his signature. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine.

Hell Wayne, why don’t we throw in the Korean & Vietnam units’ whilst were at it? Jeez, are you looking for "toughies" or what? btw, message received…. Walt

Response:

Hi there I am a 34yo m Aussie Flyfisher looking to find a few E-Mail mates to chat about flyfishing in there part of the world (wherever that may be) I am also an avid collector of Antique Fly Fishing Books so if anyone would like to See Ya Later Glynn Wulff

Response:

Hi there I am a 34yo m Aussie Flyfisher looking to find a few E-Mail mates to chat about flyfishing in there part of the world (wherever that may be) I am also an avid collector of Antique Fly Fishing Books so if anyone would like to See Ya Later Glynn Wulff

        well, glynn (hey, billy, did you ever spend any time down under about 1964?  that name is suspiciously welsh…), you sure have found the right place.  check our posts for walt winter.  and get ready to communicate. wayno, self-appointed chairman of the roff welcoming committee.

Response:

Oh, by the way Walt; please box up and send us all of your World War One and Two unit histories for the Museum.  We also could use a set of Pershing’s memoirs with his signature. Wayne To fish is human…to release divine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there I am a 34yo m Aussie Flyfisher looking to find a few E-Mail mates to chat about flyfishing in there part of the world (wherever that may be) I am also an avid collector of Antique Fly Fishing Books so if anyone would like to See Ya Later Glynn Wulff Howdy Glynn, There are two gents (I being one) that can help you out with some books here at ROFF. Ernie Harrison, who is a frequent poster here, is selling his collection off book by book. You will need to contact him for his list. I am a used, rare, and antiquarian dealer. My specialty categories are Sporting and Natural History. You can view my offerings at www.mercury.net/~wgwinter There will be some major remodelling (if i can get off my duff) going on there shortly to update the listings. Tight lines, Walt

Response:

Question:

There are two schools of thought on this: !.  Too many guides restrict the rod’s action. 2. Too few guides allow the line to drag against the rod when it flexes. Take your pick. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO http://users.ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS Hi there! I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use? Jarkko —

—                                             |    Jarkko Karvinen                            |    Student of biochemistry                    |  E. coli happens  University of Turku, Finland               |    tel. +358 (0)2 3338059                        |

— – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use?<BR The general rule of thumb is one guide for every foot plus the stripper, so 8 is the general rule of thumb.  One thing you might try is to tape the guides on with both the spacing for the 9 guides and the 8 guides and them string a line trhough them and see how the rod flexes.  Basically, the more guides the more friction.  But fewer is not better either – find a hapy medium by flexing the rod with line through the guides and make sure there are no dead spotsor places where the line touches the rod. Or – you might try calling St Croix.  I bet they would give you the guide spacing they use on the factory rod. Al Manchester, NH

      I know you are not the original poster but he may read this. I have an 8′ 8wt, a 7′6" 3wt and a 6′6" 5wt. The question gave me food for thought so I counted the guides on each, they all have 8, stripper included. with the exception of stripper and tip-top are all snake guides, all are factory. I also looked up the guide kits all are 8 guide.                                                              John Popp                                                           in Sanford Fl.

Response:

I know you are not the original poster but he may read this. Ihave an 8′

8wt, a 7′6" 3wt and a 6′6" 5wt. The question gave me food forthought so I counted the guides on each, they all have 8, stripperincluded. with the exception of stripper and tip-top are all snakeguides, all are factory. I also looked up the guide kits all are 8guide. I don’t doubt that all your rods in various lengths have the same amount of gudes.  This is a subjuect that is debated as much as anythng in fly fishing. As I said "the general rule of thumb" is one per foot plus a stripper guide. Many manufacturers leave a guide or two off to save money, some rods cast better with fewer or more guides. There are a couple of ways to determine guide spacing.  Clemens and Anglers Work Shop as well as some otheres I would guess sell a tool that will allow you to test the spacing of the guides with the rod under load.  There is a program that Cane rod builders use that was written by Wayne Catanach that calculates the spacing based on the number of guides you choose and the placement of the stripper guide.  Several books list guide placement charts as well, and Blue Ridge Rod Company includes a very good one in their catalog. I personally have always used the 1 guide per foot plus the stripper for my rods.   In Skip Morris’s book "The Custon Graphite Rod" and in Handcrafting Custom Graphite Fly Rods" by L.A. Garcia, this is the information that they provide, although the spacings are a bit different and Skip Morris provides some good insight as to the actuual placement of guides based on the rod and the fishermam it is intended for, as well as some general guide lines for placement of guides on soft and fast action rods.  It is interesting reading. The mark of a true custom rod may be going to the extra step of testing the guide placement with the rod under stress.  I have done this a few times but the standard guide placements on the graphite rods I have built have all been so close that I dont worry about it any more. It’s an interesting debate for rod builders.  Could you tell me where you looked up the guide kits for these rods?  Might just be a catalog I am missing:))))) Al Manchester, NH

Response:

Hi there! I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use? Jarkko —                                             |    Jarkko Karvinen                            |    Student of biochemistry                    |  E. coli happens  University of Turku, Finland               |    tel. +358 (0)2 3338059                     |

Response:

I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2

different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use?<BR The general rule of thumb is one guide for every foot plus the stripper, so 8 is the general rule of thumb.  One thing you might try is to tape the guides on with both the spacing for the 9 guides and the 8 guides and them string a line trhough them and see how the rod flexes.  Basically, the more guides the more friction.  But fewer is not better either – find a hapy medium by flexing the rod with line through the guides and make sure there are no dead spotsor places where the line touches the rod. Or – you might try calling St Croix.  I bet they would give you the guide spacing they use on the factory rod. Al Manchester, NH

Response:

Hi there! I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use? Jarkko

I don’t know how prevelent St Croix rods are in Finland, but your best bet would probably be to find an assembled rod from the manufacturer and copy their guided size and placement. There are some rod shop owners on this group, maybe one of them can measure it for you if you can’t find the rod in your area. Good luck,      - Ken

Response:

Hi there! I am building a 7 foot 2-3wt st.croix rod. The problem is that I have found 2 different guide spacing charts for 7 footers. One used 8 guides the other 9. Which one should I use?

Jarkko, here’s the spacing (and 7 Fuji guides) that I use on a 7ft fly rod. Note that the last (8mm2) is a 2-footed guide, the rest are single foot guides, and the measurements are in inches starting from the tip. If I recall, I got these recommendations from L.G. Custom Tackle (G. Loomis dealer and custom rod builder) many years ago. IMHO I think 9 guides is way too many for anything under 8′. I prefer the single footed Hardloy or SIC Fuji’s to the traditional snake guides which allow the line to slap against the blank. 7′ – 4(6mm), 9(6mm), 15(6mm), 22(7mm), 30(7mm), 40(8mm), 52(8mm2) Now you have 3 choices David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

Response:

Question:

I would speak with your physician about rabies since you had the contact with the bat.

Response:

I would speak with your physician about rabies since you had the contact with the bat.

Only if the bat bit him….

Response:

It is my understanding, and I am not a doctor, that bats are different than other animals and any contact with a bat should be discussed with a physician.

Response:

  Are there any other people who have caught Bats??????

 Yup, just a few weeks ago.  I was after sea trout late one night on  a local river, when I thought I’d hooked a small brownie.  It was  only when the line started to rise into the air that I started to  wonder, er, what’s going on here?  Oddly enough, as I swung the pipistrelle  over the bank, another bat came fluttering down around and around  its trapped colleague.  Fortunately, I was able to release the bat ok.  It had taken a white muddler that I was skimming across the surface of  the river, although I ‘ve had bats ‘tweak’ the fly in mid-air before.  Only minutes later, I thought I’d snagged a bush on the back-cast –  but then the ‘bush’ pulled back, and it’s the only time I’ve had the  Cheers,   Dave — Xavier Educational Software Ltd Tel: 01248-382616  Fax: 01248-382599 WWW  http://xavier.bangor.ac.uk/ Inside every large problem, there is a small problem trying to get out.

Response:

I would speak with your physician about rabies since you had the contact with the bat. Only if the bat bit him….

Not quite that simple, as the "bugs" are present in the bats saliva, and it doesn’t require an actual bite to get some on your hands. From that point any means of ingress can lead to the disease…

Response:

I once caught a Dragon Fly. The leader wrapped around him and he flew around towing my line! Mine would be more of a foul hook than a catch though! SierraTim

Response:

Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly So I caught my first bat the night before last.   So my question is does this count as a ligitimate catch?  I argued with my fishing partner that it was because I had the bat in my hand. He argued that it wasn’t because I didn’t unhook the bat and release it. Any thoughts or similar experiances? Mike: I’m a Veterinarian who flyfishes.  This is a good opportunity to point out that bats deserve respect and caution.  They are consistently rated, at least in California, as the number one species to transmit rabies.  Number two and three have been skunks and cats. I would recommend that you cut your line or leader as soon as you know what you’ve done.  Rather a few bucks to be safe than a few more minutes fishing to be sorry.  Since rabies travels to the brain via the nervous system, a bite on the face or upper trunk could spell the difference between something that could be treated or writing your will. Sorry to be doom and gloom, but it could happen.  Be glad that rabies is not epidemic, and keep your pets vaccinated! Good fishing! Kevin R. Sharp, D.V.M.

Response:

Only if the bat bit him…. Not quite that simple, as the "bugs" are present in the bats saliva, and it doesn’t require an actual bite to get some on your hands. From that point any means of ingress can lead to the disease…

What would you have suggested? Leave the bat die a slow death from either exhaustion and/or hunger? Put it out of its misery? I did what I thought was right and yes I was careful about ingression. I washed my hands, pliers, and the forceps I used to free the flappy little critter. I did my best to limit that possibility.

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So I caught my first bat the night before last.  I was fishing with a black wooly bugger after dark under a bridge.  I cast my fly and didn’t hear it splash into the stream.  I thought it must have landed in a bush or somehting.  As I retreived it, I felt something on the end of my line.  Figuring it was a branch, I slid my hand down the line to unhook it when  realized it was a bat.  I knew this because I felt it’s wet wings and felt it squirming around.  I threw it into the stream at my feet and was reaching for my clipper to cut the line when it latched onto my leg and started climbing up.  By now my fishing partner was rolling on the bank with laughter and I was getting nervous.  I plunged my leg down into the water because I couldn’t think of anything better to do.  When I lifted up my fly the bat was gone. So my question is does this count as a ligitimate catch?  I argued with my fishing partner that it was because I had the bat in my hand. He argued that it wasn’t because I didn’t unhook the bat and release it. Any thoughts or similar experiances? Long Live Hay Creek MikeH

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Question:

Non-resident fishing permit for the year is $25, for 14 days, it’s $15, and for a 3-day permit, it’s $8.  The Gasconade River is a very good river for smallmouth, largemouth, and Kentucky (spotted) bass.  Bear in mind, however, that there is a smallmouth bass experimental management area on the Gasconade from the Highway Y bridge in Pulaski County to Highway D bridge in Phelps County.  Within this area the daily limit on black bass is 6, and no more than one may be a smallmouth.  All smallmouth caught less than 18 inches must be returned to the water unharmed immediately after being caught.  If you get bored with the Gasconade (which you might, since it’s a pretty popular river during the weekends), you might want to move your expedition to the Big Piney River, very near to the Gasconade and Rolla.  The Big Piney was recognized by Field & Stream (I think), as one of the top 5 smallmouth fisheries in the midwest.  It is a very pristine, totally unpolluted stream.  If you’d like to do some wading, and perhaps catch some trout and smallmouth, try Little Piney Creek in Phelps County.  It joins the Gasconade near Jerome Access.  I’ve been fishing this creek religiously for the past 2 years, and it’s really sucked away study time. Beautiful scenery, fiesty fish, nice people–you couldn’t pick a better place to go fishin’.                      –Jason S. Cummins                        Civil Engineering Junior                        University of Missouri-Rolla

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I have a question . . . I’m gonna be fishing this weekend on the Gasconade river (not far from Rolla, Missouri) and I’d like to know how much an out of state fishing licence costs these days.

Non-resident fishing license is $25  "    "      14-day permit   is $15  "    "       3-day permit   is $ 8              Trout  stamp    is $ 6 A $2 tag is required at all 4 trout parks. A catch-and-release weekend off-season pass is $5 for trout parks. See Missouri flyfishing page on the Web: http://www.agron.missouri.edu:80/flyfishing/license.html   –Charlie Rond

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I have a question . . . I’m gonna be fishing this weekend on the Gasconade river (not far from Rolla, Missouri) and I’d like to know how much an out of state fishing licence costs these days. Thanks in advance for your reply. Dave Fortner

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