Question:

I’ve been lurking around these parts lately.  A while back I saw that ROFF was going to the San Juan.  That’s just over 3 hours from home, and I fish there pretty often, so I hooked up with Bruiser and made plans to be there for the Clave.  I fish lots of waters around northern New Mexico – some because of the fishing, others because of the beauty of the places. Off to the ‘Juan we went.  The SJ is a tailwater, behind a large earthen dam, flowing through a spectacular sandstone canyon in an exceptionally dry and arid region – it gets an average of 8" of precipitation each year.  It’s near the village of Navajo Dam, east of Farmington, at 6000′.  Willi’s pictures were great – but they still don’t capture the beauty of the area. I met Bob and Charlie, Willi, Bruce, and Dan’l when they arrived Friday night.  Chuck arrived in a little while.  We had dinner and a few beers, figured out where/when we’d meet the next morning, and turned in pretty early. We started fishing early Saturday morning.  Early enough to have ice in the guides and to break through ice in the sloughs next to the river. By the time I got my flies tied on, Willi had caught a couple of fish. I understand that’s pretty common.  Everyone caught fish on Saturday. Everyone but me, it seems.  I hooked up with a few, but not as many as I should have, and landing them was almost impossible.  I got tangled, I broke off, it was like I’d never done this before!  Of course, it was still fun, but here I am, on water I know pretty well, not catching much of anything. Sunday I slept in a bit.  I got down to the river at 9:30 or 10:00. Charlie and Bob are in the Kiddie Pool, and Bruiser shows up while I’m getting ready.  Things are going kind of slow, so I put my seine in the water to see what kind of bugs were around.  Lots of light-colored midges and midge larva showed up in the net, so we tied on light-colored patterns.  And fish were on!  I was catching my share, and everyone was having a good day.  We moved around the river, to the big holes, to the fast canyon water, to the flats – pretty much all over.  Fishing was good.  Chuck fished part of the day and went home.  He was replaced by Arni and Scott. One of the big thrills of fishing the SJ is catching large fish on tiny flies.  A 12" rainbow is a tiny fish there.  Most are 14-18".  Lots are bigger, with 20+" fish not uncommon.  And they take #20-#24 midge larva – basically thread on a hook.  We made the regular jokes about fishing a #76 paramecium.  But then we figured out that the fish really wanted egg patterns.  Midge eggs.  That’s about a #84 hook. Two exceptional things happened Sunday.  Fish at the SJ collect behind the fishermen.  They see so many fishermen every day that they don’t spook too easily.  They swim behind you, sifting through the junk that your feet stir up.  I’m fishing in the Texas Hole and a big fish starts tapping on my boot!  He’s bumping it with his head!!  We figured he was trying to tell me to move my feet some more, so I’d stir up some more food. The second thing was when a beautiful blue heron came to our pool in the evening and watched us fish.  He squawked at us for a while, then he just watched. One of the problems with fishing the SJ is the crowds.  It’s become really popular.  The normal rules of stream etiquette just don’t apply, and you’re always fishing in sight of someone, and in the popular spots, with people very close by.  Except between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Monday there wer 8 people on the top ~1.5 miles of the river, from Texas Hole up to the dam (not counting two duck hunters).  7 of them were us!   It was deserted.  But the fish seemed to want to ride the tilt-a-whirl, and with fewer anglers on the river, they viciously attacked our flies.  My flies, at least.  Monday was one of those days you hear about, but seldom have.  Fish after fish after fish.  Big fish.   No tangles.  No break-offs.  Spot a fish, get a good drift to him, and he’d take.  Toss your fly in the water as you waded to a new place, and they’d find it when you weren’t expecting it.  I caught what was probably the largest trout of my life – ask Dan’l how big it was.  We layed it up against my fly rod to measure it.  I measured the fly rod later – it was a 24-25" rainbow – a true denizen of the deep.  I caught at least 4 over 20" on Monday, and lots and lots of the "small" ones. That evening, I walked over to a hole we’d been fishing every evening. I was the only one there – I couldn’t even see anyone else.  By Monday we knew what would work in this particular hole – any midge larva with red in it.  Unable to understand how fish could find such tiny flies in the failing light, I tossed in a #22 Desert Storm and started catching fish.  Pretty soon the blue heron came over to watch me.  Just me, the heron, and the fish.  I caught 5 in ~30 minutes before I decided to call it quits and head for home. It was a great weekend.  Fishing was good to great.  The weather was spectacular – the storm that was predicted went to the south and we never saw it.  Everyone got along well, and there was plenty of comraderie When do we do it again?  I’d fish with these guys any time.  Thanks Bruce, for setting this up.         – Bryan

Response:

Bryan, After a great report like that, you will be in great demand around here. Everyone enjoyed meeting you and fishing with you.  Glad to hear you had a good time.  Once we heard the "everyothercast" echo down the river, we knew you were. And I’ve got some news for you:  next year you’re the co-host! bruce h

Response:

I’ve been lurking around these parts lately.  A while back I saw that ROFF was going to the San Juan.  That’s just over 3 hours from home, and I fish there pretty often, so I hooked up with Bruiser and made plans to be there for the Clave.

    thanks for a nifty report, bryan.     funny how much your experience reminds me of fishing up in the smokies….  :( yfitons wayno

Response:

Bryan, [snip] And I’ve got some news for you:  next year you’re the co-host!

You realize that almost guarantees snow for next year, right? Sure, I’ll help.  If we act early, we can reserve most of Rizuto’s!         – Bryan

Response:

Sure, I’ll help.  If we act early, we can reserve most of Rizuto’s!

  Rizuto’s wins out over Abe’s, don’t you think?  I asked Chuck if he’d give a discount if I could get all of the roffians at next year’s clave booked there and he said yes.  Something to remember.  I knew it was a bad sign when we pulled up to #52 at Abe’s and there was the plumber’s truck sitting in front. Still not fixed after a year:)   Another great clave.  Thanks, Bruiser.  Bryan, it was nice to meet and fish with you.  You fit right in.  (Scary, isn’t’ it?)   As others have given such nice trip reports, I don’t have much to add.  I did discover the joys of studded, felt waders.  Unbelievable traction.  Should have purchased them years ago. I also bought some of that high priced Rio Fluoroflex plus tippet.  5X with a 5 lb. test.  It worked very well and I didn’t break off as many fish.   The first two days were the best for me.  I don’t know when I’ve caught as many big fish.  You couldn’t beat the weather, either.  I had a lot of fun driving down with Willi and Charlie, again.  They weren’t much fun on the way back as I think they slept the whole way.  I only took short naps as I was driving:)  It was great to see my clave buddies again and I’ll see you next year. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

    The first two days were the best for me.  I don’t know when I’ve caught as   many big fish.  You couldn’t beat the weather, either.  I had a lot of fun   driving down with Willi and Charlie, again.  They weren’t much fun on the way   back as I think they slept the whole way.  I only took short naps as I was   driving:)  It was great to see my clave buddies again and I’ll see you next   year. Get those pictures developed and out to me, please. Willi

Response:

Get those pictures developed and out to me, please.

  They’re being processed as we speak.  Hopefully will have them Monday.  Send me your mailing address. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

  Rizuto’s wins out over Abe’s, don’t you think?

Abe’s is part of the "experience."  I’ve experienced the "experience." This was the first time I’ve stayed at Rizuto’s.  Definately nicer. Seeing all those picnic tables around, I think we’ll need to haul a BBQ grill up there and have a Clave Banquet in the parking lot!   Another great clave.  Thanks, Bruiser.  Bryan, it was nice to meet and fish with you.  You fit right in.  (Scary, isn’t’ it?)

Doesn’t that mean I should be flaming somebody?  Everybody? I left one thing out of my trip report.  There were these bait fishermen.  They were fishing below the quality waters, down by the campground.  But they were staying at Rizuto’s, in room #1. AND THEY BROUGHT THEIR OWN SATELLITE TV DISH! [for those who don't know much about northern NM - you only get one TV station in Navajo Dam, and the reception of that one is pretty poor]         – Bryan

Response:

AND THEY BROUGHT THEIR OWN SATELLITE TV DISH!

Sounds like a good idea to me, assuming you have the time to watch TV. The local NM stations are the absolute worst.

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There are some excellent suggestions here-thanks everyone. I was looking at the hodgeman nylon waders this weekend, might go with those in conjunction with my teva-type sandals, which are usually my camp shoe also. My main priority is to learn to fly cast by the time spring comes. sometimes i do backpack to flyfish.. hodgeman supplex waders orvis "pack and travel" boots they are both lightweight and pack small however i pack neither if i go very far..

 If you use sandals for a wading shoe make sure that you wear a pair of socks (neoprenes work well) over your wader’s feet. Otherwise sand and grit will get caught between your sandal and your foot and wear out your waders fast. Been there, done that. G.Cleveland

Response:

sometimes i do backpack to flyfish.. hodgeman supplex waders orvis "pack and travel" boots they are both lightweight and pack small however i pack neither if i go very far..

Response:

There are some excellent suggestions here-thanks everyone. I was looking at the hodgeman nylon waders this weekend, might go with those in conjunction with my teva-type sandals, which are usually my camp shoe also. My main priority is to learn to fly cast by the time spring comes.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – sometimes i do backpack to flyfish.. hodgeman supplex waders orvis "pack and travel" boots they are both lightweight and pack small however i pack neither if i go very far..

Response:

This question is for the anglers in this group. What waders and/or wading shoes do you take  backpacking?

I mostly fly fish streams in the Sierra. For this I take stocking foot hippers. Over these, I wear a pair of thin neoprene socks I got from Cabelas. I have reinforced the toes of the socks with Aqua Seal. For shoes with this combination, I wear a pair of Tevas, the kind that have Fastex buckle rather than Velcro fasteners, because the Velcro doesn’t hold reliably when it’s wet.  The Tevas dry quickly and are usable as a camp shoe. For the inevitable repairs, their is a product from Loon called Sun Patch. It’s like Aqua Seal except that it cures in seconds in strong sunlight rather than overnight. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (650)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971          

Response:

This question is for the anglers in this group. What waders and/or wading shoes do you take  backpacking?

Response:

When backpacking, the only waders I take are my bare legs with an old pair of Converse Chuck Taylor’s on my feet.  If I had to take waders, I’d bring the LL Bean Fly Weight waders. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This question is for the anglers in this group. What waders and/or wading shoes do you take  backpacking?

Response:

You can carry whatever you want and have the strength to do so. Many fishermen do limited packing in the Eastern sierras. There are nice lakes a few miles off the nearest road and the only way to get there is to walk.  Its not like you have to walk a marathon. Just get away from the cars a few days.

Response:

I too have struggled for a good answer to your question. I have decided that taking hip waders backpacking is more weight and bulk than I can stand.  I’m a backpacker that fishes occasionally rather than primarily a fisherman that backpacks mainly to get good fishing water. At one point, I simply used lightweight water shoes and braved the cold.  I often ended up walking on top of the rocks in the streams to keep from having cold numb feet.  This approach resulted in a slip and fall and a dislocated finger three days from the trailhead. Currently I use neoprene wet wading socks such as those that can be viewed at this link:  http://www.3riversresort.com/product.cfm?productID=187 paired with Merrell Shoreline Stretch Shoes which can be viewed at this link: http://www.altrec.com/shop/detail/12506/11.  These shoes are stretchy enough and adjustable enough that they can be worn without socks or with thick neoprene wading socks.  They work well as wading shoes.  They slip on and off quickly and work well for crossing water.  I use them for in-camp shoes and occasionally for short hikes (e.g. from camp to the fishing spot).  For me, they are the solution to question of what other shoe to bring backpacking other than my hiking boots. Bob Taylor

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This question is for the anglers in this group. What waders and/or wading shoes do you take  backpacking?

Response:

Question:

 When Bob Skinner learned he lives along the route I drove, and at the halfway point, he opened up his home to me and the lovely massuese.         did i get that right; did you say you and "…the lovely massues"?  the hell with all that other bullshit–let’s hear about *that*! wayno, goin for the jugular

  Great, Charlie.  You let the cat out of the bag.  Now, the eastern clavers will want you to spill the beans. I fear that the bottom will then drop out of the goat market, hurting a lot of the local farmers:( Bob Skinner — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Ok, so you attended the Western Conclave. You’re tired, you’re hungry, and you don’t have the time to post a week-long trip report… So how’s about you answer this little survey in the meantime? Most of the questions can be answered in a few words. It’ll only take a minute 1. What days were you there?

Got there friday night, airlifted out on Monday afternoon. 2. Who did you fish with?

Dan’l, Darin, Warren, the Hightowers, Bob Card and Willi. Planned to fish w/ KenF but arteries got in the way. 3. Where did you fish?

Fished once right next to camp, 2 smalls, one decent, all Browns. Second day fished up river a bit at burnt tree hole (?). Caught a few small browns. Third day fished braided channals south of town. Caught a lot of smaller browns. 4. What water was most productive for you? Loved the braided channels. Want to fish it again. 5. What was your favorite fly? I was using stimulators mostly, but I should

have used more . . . nymphs 6. What was your most memorable fish? 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance? Huh? 8. Did Ken and Vern get along? ? 9. What did you win at the raffle? A 3 weight line, 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack? Actually I was right

there. See that sucker was w/ Dan at the jiffy shop and Dan’l, whose offer of an aspirin had been earlier accepted, suggested Sned visit the clinic just for the hell of it. The countergirl said it was down the street, he went and, voila, started a whole chain of events that  . . . hold it. Sned IS ME! Yeah. I lived. At least so far. Ended up at Deaconess/Billings, great cardiac center, next am they found blockages and inserted 2 stints. Ill say more about these very interesting bits of stainless mesh some other time. Bob Skinner, is a great guy. He drove all the way to Billings and back to get my wife Bonnie to my van in Ennis. I will be forever greatful for that quiet kindness. 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently? Quit

smoking 20 years ago and learned to hate eggs. 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be? All of em. No surprises really. 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be? see above. Bonus questions (only one person need answer): (a) who won the bamboo rod and the Connor rod? (b) Is Snedeker going to be OK? Well so far. I was

lucky it happened when and where it did. I got the best care you can , I figured I was already dead so nothing hurt too much, and I got a pocket full of nitro in case I need it. Turns out I was having a rolling heart attack for about a month and kept telling myself it was musle strain, although I hear that Warren thinks it was his rap music that triggered the attack. No way Warren, although on second thought if it will  . . . .  And I survived so far.  Ive had a great life, and Im one dam lucky person. Getting tired and will post more some other time. Thanx for all the great wishes Snedeker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

  You got that right Wayno. I took my girlfriend, who is a professional masseuse (strictly legit, sore muscles etc). Just what the doctor ordered after a hard day on the water; she also cooks and keeps a pretty tidy camp. The only drawback to having her along was that I seldom arose before 9:00 AM.

ahhhh, this post Charlie, in it’s simple innocence, is at this time causing wayno to tear what few reamining hairs he has out of his head. waldo

Response:

Walt Its even worse. The lady is classy, great lookin, has a sense of humor and fishes. Kinda like many of the other classy ladies of the West. To whom I dedicate this couplet: Yeah, and, and, and . . . she’s really cool. Grows her own, No pixy and looks grrrreat in the sun. Has a homeplace between John Day and Maupin, but mostly she’s keepen the old Beaver flying and in gas. Prefers older guys, dresses mostly out of REI, and little Sundance. Ties down to a 22. Somewhere West of Cheyenne Send er round Dave Snedeker – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   You got that right Wayno. I took my girlfriend, who is a professional masseuse (strictly legit, sore muscles etc). Just what the doctor ordered after a hard day on the water; she also cooks and keeps a pretty tidy camp. The only drawback to having her along was that I seldom arose before 9:00 AM. ahhhh, this post Charlie, in it’s simple innocence, is at this time causing wayno to tear what few reamining hairs he has out of his head. waldo

Response:

Ok, so you attended the Western Conclave. You’re tired, you’re hungry, and you don’t have the time to post a week-long trip report… So how’s about you answer this little survey in the meantime? Most of the questions can be answered in a few words. It’ll only take a minute 1. What days were you there?

I arrived on Fri. night the 21st and left on Sat morn the 29th. 2. Who did you fish with? Everyone who showed up except Ken, which I wish I could have. 3. Where did you fish? The Madison and Ruby rivers, Jack and Indian cricks, and two high altitude lakes with Steve (RW) which will remain nameless. 4. What water was most productive for you?

Probably the second lake Steve and I rode up to. We caught at least 2 doz. apiece in just a couple of hours. 5. What was your favorite fly?

Elk hair caddis, although this is not what I caught most of my fish on. 6. What was your most memorable fish?

The 20" cutthroat that I caught out of the first lake Steve and I rode to. 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance?

Nope, but I know where he was on Thursday, and I ain’t tellin. 8. Did Ken and Vern get along?

They appeared to. 9. What did you win at the raffle?

I won Michael Erana’s furled leaders and Forty’s book "Trout Stream Insects" 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack?

Fishing. 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently?

I can’t think of a single thing. 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be?

To be honest, Ken Fortenberry. I can’t really explain why either. 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be?

Steve. Sorry Steve, but it’s true, I thought you’d be more a serious type of guy. I was definitely wrong. Bonus questions (only one person need answer): (a) who won the bamboo rod and the Connor rod? (b) Is Snedeker going to be OK?

A) Vern won the cane rod and I’m cryin fix cause it was the first item up and his was the first name drawn. FIX! FIX! Just kidding Vern, you did a good, fair job with the raffle. Danl won the Conner rod, that lucky son of a bitch. I can say that cause it’s going to be a couple more weeks before he gets to a computer. B) Dave S. is going to be fine. Darin

Response:

Hello Peter Thanx for the good wishes. Im alive and kicking. Need a few weeks to figure this deal out. See whats included and whats not. Im just resting and glad to be alive. Take care Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] Well so far. I was lucky it happened when and where it did. I got the best care you can , I figured I was already dead so nothing hurt too much, and I got a pocket full of nitro in case I need it. Turns out I was having a rolling heart attack for about a month and kept telling myself it was musle strain, although I hear that Warren thinks it was his rap music that triggered the attack. No way Warren, although on second thought if it will  . . . .  And I survived so far.  Ive had a great life, and Im one dam lucky person. Getting tired and will post more some other time. Thanx for all the great wishes Snedeker This is starting to be an unpleasant trend. Take care and enjoy the opportunity to relax.  and follow the doctors orders, eh! Peter

Response:

did i get that right; did you say you and "…the lovely massues"?  the hell with all that other bullshit–let’s hear about *that*! wayno, goin for the jugular

  You got that right Wayno. I took my girlfriend, who is a professional masseuse (strictly legit, sore muscles etc). Just what the doctor ordered after a hard day on the water; she also cooks and keeps a pretty tidy camp. The only drawback to having her along was that I seldom arose before 9:00 AM.

Response:

Nice to hear from you personally David. Glad to hear you survived the ordeal.  Take your time and do some gentle fishing. Best wishes, regards, and tight lines! Mike Connor — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

[snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well so far. I was lucky it happened when and where it did. I got the best care you can , I figured I was already dead so nothing hurt too much, and I got a pocket full of nitro in case I need it. Turns out I was having a rolling heart attack for about a month and kept telling myself it was musle strain, although I hear that Warren thinks it was his rap music that triggered the attack. No way Warren, although on second thought if it will  . . . .  And I survived so far.  Ive had a great life, and Im one dam lucky person. Getting tired and will post more some other time. Thanx for all the great wishes Snedeker

This is starting to be an unpleasant trend. Take care and enjoy the opportunity to relax.  and follow the doctors orders, eh! Peter

Response:

David Snedeker writes:

(nice stuff snipped) And I survived so far.  Ive had a great life, and Im one dam lucky person. Getting tired and will post more some other time. Thanx for all the great wishes Snedeker

Good for you, David.  Wish I could have been there with you.  Get well.. Dave LaCourse

Response:

"David Snedeker" wrote 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently? Quit smoking 20 years ago and learn to hate eggs.

Dave,    Glad you made it.  There is no time like the present to quit smoking and eating those high cholesterol and fatty foods.  It seems like all the things you like to eat are bad for you.  You can set an example for all the 200+ pounders on ROFF. Ernie

Response:

Ok, so you attended the Western Conclave. You’re tired,…

Very you’re hungry,…

Very and you don’t have the time to post a week-long trip report

Very (???) 1. What days were you there?

Sat-Sat 2. Who did you fish with?

Bruce Bruiser Hopper, Warren, Willi Tight Line Loehman, and a bit with Ken, Bob Skinner and Ol’ Dan the Man Finn.  Have pics, will post. 3. Where did you fish?

Mostly the Madison (so much water!), but also Ruby, Beaver Head (huh huh), West Fork Madison, and a tiny private spring creek I got access to by being nice. 4. What water was most productive for you?

I netted big fish on the Beaver Head (:-) more later), but seriously, the Madison, most consistently below Ennis Lake. 5. What was your favorite fly?

Black Stonefly nymph, partly because all the fly shops said they wouldn’t work (I went in one shop and the bins with the size and style I wanted were empty, so I asked if they had more of em.  The guy said that he had in stock anything that I would want to use.)  I finally found what I was looking for at the True Value hardware store and went out and killed ‘em that day! 6. What was your most memorable fish?

First 2 are equal.  The very first fish I caught was a 17" brown from a spot that I worked *hard* to wade to, then it took off dowstream in heavy current. Then I had to work hard to wade *out*, this time fighting a fish, so I could get to a place I could net it. The second was a rising fish I saw in a quiet little braid in "the Channels". I cast and switched flies, and cast and switched angles, and switched flies and cast some more until I finally caught it.  Turned out to be an 8" brown, but still a great catch since I was so determned to get it. 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance?

Nope. 8. Did Ken and Vern get along?

Never talked AFAIK. 9. What did you win at the raffle?

Nothing!  They held it earlier than they said and I wasn’t back yet!  I gave my prize away.  Dang, I wanted a shot at that 8 ft 2 wt. 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack?

Telling him the size of the fish I just caught.  Sorry that was in bad taste – I’m joking only because I know he’s fine.  Enjoyed meeting Dave, had a nice chat with him about the fishing on the first day. 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently?

Fish longer hours right from the start!  So much water! 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be? 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be?

I honestly didn’t have any preconceived notions.  Sorry, boring answer.  Fun people though. Regards, Jeff

Response:

<snip Snedeker

Congratulations on making it back to the computer.  Glad to year you’re all right.  Best of luck and a speedy recovery. — Levi "So long, and thanks for all the fish."

Response:

   Glad you made it.  There is no time like the present to quit smoking and eating those high cholesterol and fatty foods.  It seems like all the things you like to eat are bad for you.  You can set an example for all the 200+ pounders on ROFF.

Ok, that does it!! Welcome to the new me. –Steve    2025

Response:

…Thanx for the good wishes. Im alive and kicking. Need a few weeks to figure this deal out. See whats included and whats not. Im just resting and glad to be alive.

Sad news about your trouble Dave.  Good news about your survival.  I join the rest in best wishes for a full and speedy recovery.  A word of advice: don’t do that heart attack shit again; it ain’t good for you (let’s just see if we can get an argument about THAT!) Wolfgang

Response:

   Glad you made it.  There is no time like the present to quit smoking and eating those high cholesterol and fatty foods.  It seems like all the things you like to eat are bad for you.  You can set an example for all the 200+ pounders on ROFF. Ok, that does it!! Welcome to the new me. –Steve    2025

"2025"? Yikes – that’s even more than three Marlon Brandos!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    Glad you made it.  There is no time like the present to quit smoking and eating those high cholesterol and fatty foods.  It seems like all the things you like to eat are bad for you.  You can set an example for all the 200+ pounders on ROFF. Ok, that does it!! Welcome to the new me. –Steve    2025 "2025"? Yikes – that’s even more than three Marlon Brandos!

WOW!  2 Kilobrandos! or is that 20 Hectomarlons? R

Response:

WOW!  2 Kilobrandos!

Apocalypse Now? — Charlie…

Response:

1. What days were you there?

Arrived Sunday afternoon, left Thursday morning. 2. Who did you fish with?

Willi, Dan’l, Steve, Warren, Bob, JeffC. 3. Where did you fish?

Ruby, Madison, a lake I can’t name for fear of death & dismemberment by Warren and likewise a section of river I can’t name if I ever want to have Robin Cunningham guide me again. 4. What water was most productive for you?

The guided trip on Tuesday. 5. What was your favorite fly?

Elk hair caddis was most productive but I caught my biggest fish on a hopper. 6. What was your most memorable fish?

A whitefish on the Ruby, my first ever. 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance?

Nah, he hid behind Mary Dorsey’s skirts. 8. Did Ken and Vern get along?

Famously. Vern graciously offered the use of his pontoon so I could fish the alpine lake with Warren, Steve & Willi on Wednesday. Thanks again, Vern. 9. What did you win at the raffle?

Had already made reservations for Thursday & Friday in the Park way back in March, before the raffle day was set, so missed it. 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack?

Dave, Dan’l and I went into town to grab a bite of lunch, mail a postcard, have some film developed, get some maps and buy brimmed hats ’cause the tops of our ears were gettin’ fried in the brutal sun wearing just ball caps. "AH HAH !", says Kristine at this point in the narrative, "you were shopping. Three guys shopping, it’s a wonder any of you survived the experience." Humph, says I, were not either, we were BUYING, not shopping. Dave got into his van and drove to the clinic immediately upon our return to camp so I assume he was having a heart attack in the back seat of my Subaru, bummer, but all’s well that ends well. Dave, you’ll have to finish that ‘Clave painting from memory and post a photo. 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently?

Stay all week. 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be? 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be?

No surprises, really. Trip report to follow soon. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

 When Bob Skinner learned he lives along the route I drove, and at the halfway point, he opened up his home to me and the lovely massuese.

        did i get that right; did you say you and "…the lovely massues"?  the hell with all that other bullshit–let’s hear about *that*! wayno, goin for the jugular

Response:

7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance?     I assume you mean George.  Haven’t figured out the acronym, yet. Nope.

Bob, It’s from the "Harry Potter" book series and It stands for "He Who Must Not Be Named". The Character is Voldemort, an evil Wizard that uses his powers for evil instead of good and is always causing trouble for Harry Potter and his friends. Paul

Response:

Steve Zimmerman wrote 1. What days were you there?

       Saturday through Friday 2. Who did you fish with?

       Just about everybody except Snedecker and Vern. 3. Where did you fish?

       The Madison, Jack Creek, Indian Creek, and the west fork of the Madison (my personal favorite). 4. What water was most productive for you?

       Jack Creek, where I didn’t even try to keep count. 5. What was your favorite fly?

       Took 90% of my fish on an elk hair caddis. 6. What was your most memorable fish?

       An 18" rainbow that I pulled out of Jack Creek, remarkable because the creek was so small. 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance?

       Not personally, but he sent an emissary bearing gifts. 8. Did Ken and Vern get along?

       Everybody got along splendidly, as long as Vern’s dog doesn’t count as a claver. 9. What did you win at the raffle?

       The 7 1/2′ Happy Hooker donated by George. Much more about this later. 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack?

         Fishing on Jack Creek. 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently?

         I would of had the air conditioning on my truck fixed BEFORE driving 1700 miles. 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be?

         Dan’l. What a hoot. 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be?

         Ken Fortenberry turned out to be the nicest, most considerate guy you’d ever want to meet. I suppose everybody turned out to be nicer than expected, especially compared to their on-line personalities.  Any one of these guys would’ve given you the shirt off his back. When Bob Skinner learned he lives along the route I drove, and at the halfway point, he opened up his home to me and the lovely massuese. We spent a fine evening together, then went and fished one of Bob’s secret spots this morning. Thanks Bob, and any roffer who finds himself in northern Colorado is just as welcome in my home. Even George.

Response:

Ok, so you attended the Western Conclave. You’re tired, you’re hungry, and you don’t have the time to post a week-long trip report… So how’s about you answer this little survey in the meantime? Most of the questions can be answered in a few words. It’ll only take a minute 1. What days were you there?

     I arrived Mon. afternoon and left Friday a.m. 2. Who did you fish with?

     I spent most of my time with ‘ol Daniel, Willi and Charlie Wilson it seems.   3. Where did you fish?

     Madison, Ruby and Indian Creek 4. What water was most productive for you?

     They were all about the same for me, fair, by comparison to where I normally fish.   99% of my fishing is lake fishing and my knowledge of stream fishing is limited.  But, that knowledge was increased quite a bit by watching Willi fish.  Heck, that guy could pull a fish out of the back of my Jeep, I believe.  I really enjoyed watching him fish & learned a lot. 5. What was your favorite fly?

    I seemed to have the most luck with an elk hair caddis and beadhead pheasant tail 6. What was your most memorable fish?

    The best fish was the one I broke off in the Madison.   I’m just not used to playing a fish in moving water (or keeping my footing.  Didn’t get wet but it was close a few times.) 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance?

    I assume you mean George.  Haven’t figured out the acronym, yet. Nope. 8. Did Ken and Vern get along?

    I didn’t monitor the "companionship monitor":) 9. What did you win at the raffle?

     I won a box of "Holdzit" products: Tool Saver, floatant holders in double and single and a new product that holds a 35mm plastic film canister.  There were duplicates so I put the extras as an add-on on the raffle items so more folks would be exposed to the products. 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack?

   He was in the hospital when I arrived.  I did get to meet him, however.  As he took his keys with him and his wife flew into Billings, I drove to Billings & picked up his wife and drove her back to Ennis so she could pick up their van.  Dave looked good and was in good spirits. Had a nice visit on the way back to Ennis with his wife, Bonnie. 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently?

   I would have drift boated the Madison.  You can only reach so much water when casting from close to shore.  And, as I’m not used to wading big streams (and the Madison looked really big to me) I would have been more comfortable in a boat (or pontoon). 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be?

   ’ol Daniel, I guess. 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be?

   That’s easy.  Ken Fortenberry.  A pleasant surprise.  I really liked the left winger much to my surprise. (Dear Ken, I hope I didn’t destroy your image.  Steve asked and I had to respond:) Bonus questions (only one person need answer): (a) who won the bamboo rod and the Connor rod? (b) Is Snedeker going to be OK?

  Vern won the wonderful rod that you donated, Steve.  What a beautiful piece of work!  It was very generous of you to donate such a nice rod.   beautiful piece of work.  Charlie stopped by here on his way back to CO and I got to cast the rod.  It was a delight.  A 4 wt. (don’t remember how long) and a pretty rod.  I laid out 60-70 feet of line with out too much trouble.  Charlie will post more of a review when he gets back, I’ll bet.  Sorry, I can’t remember who won Mike’s rod but it too was a finally crafted rod.  I am really tickled that Steve, G and Mike would donate such fine rods, especially complicated to build bamboo rods. That’s way beyond the call of duty and is very generous.  It was fun to see the look on the winner’s faces.  Every winner was tickled silly. Bob Skinner  Buffalo, WY — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Ok, so you attended the Western Conclave. You’re tired, you’re hungry, and you don’t have the time to post a week-long trip report… So how’s about you answer this little survey in the meantime? Most of the questions can be answered in a few words. It’ll only take a minute 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack? Bonus questions (only one person need answer): (a) who won the bamboo rod and the Connor rod? (b) Is Snedeker going to be OK?

Holy…..!  He actually had a heart attack?  I saw something about it, but thought it was some joke I didn’t have time to catch up on… If so, add my name to the list sending good wishes. TC, R

Response:

Ok, so you attended the Western Conclave. You’re tired, you’re hungry, and you don’t have the time to post a week-long trip report… So how’s about you answer this little survey in the meantime? Most of the questions can be answered in a few words. It’ll only take a minute 1. What days were you there? 2. Who did you fish with? 3. Where did you fish? 4. What water was most productive for you? 5. What was your favorite fly? 6. What was your most memorable fish? 7. Did HWMNBN make a public appearance? 8. Did Ken and Vern get along? 9. What did you win at the raffle? 10. Where were you when Snedeker had the heart attack? 11. If you had it to do over again, what would you do differently? 12. Which ROFFian was the MOST like you thought they’d be? 13. Which ROFFian was the LEAST like you thought they’d be? Bonus questions (only one person need answer): (a) who won the bamboo rod and the Connor rod? (b) Is Snedeker going to be OK? –Steve

Response:

Question:

I’m taking an intermediate fly-fishing class at our local university this Saturday.  :-) Good idea?  Yes. They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)?

This class covers entomology, learning to read the water, river and lake methodology, and casting clinic for corrections.  It’s just one of those extra classes not for any degree. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

Sid’s ded, but Messrs. Cook and Lydon can be had…Anyone know where Biafra is at?

I’m not dead, man. Now where’s that damn Nancy? I coulda sworn she was just here…. – sid

Response:

They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)? I think they’ve had fly fishing offered at Penn State for many years. Maybe Frogspritz can shed some light on this.

By the most remarkable coincidence, I was at a TU picnic with Frogspritz, aka Mark Faulkner, a coupla hours ago. As  you may have noticed, he has been too busy loyering lately to be on the net.  So perhaps I may be permitted to respond. All undergraduate students at PSU, except veterans and perhaps a few others, must take a couple of credits in physical education.  I think that’s true of most colleges and universities. Many many years ago, before most of you were born, (almost before *I* was born), George Harvey began teaching fly casting and tying as one of the many physical education courses.  That was mentioned in George Leonard Herter’s book on fly tying, published at least 30 years ago. To the best of my knowledge, neither a BA, a BS, an MA, an MS, nor a Ph.D. in fly fishing is offered.   I’m happy to report that George Harvey was also at the picnic, in good health. vince norris

Response:

Many many years ago, before most of you were born, (almost before *I* was born), George Harvey began teaching fly casting and tying as one of the many physical education courses.  That was mentioned in George Leonard Herter’s book on fly tying, published at least 30 years ago. I’m happy to report that George Harvey was also at the picnic, in good health.

Wow, he’s got to be almost 90, that’s cool.  Joe Humphreys told me it was George who passed the baton to him for teaching the fly fishing course.  If I remember right he just recently retired (Joe).  I wonder if anyone is, or will be, teaching next.  Wish my school had that.  Shouldn’t gripe though, I got a credit for spending a long weekend at a beautiful Adirondack lodge on Racquette Lack cross country skiing and hanging by the fireplace with a bunch of girls I hadn’t met yet. Those were the days….. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Hi guys! I drive by a river on most days, and I keep thinking…. hmmmmm I would love to try fly fishing…. But of course I dont know the first thing.. is there any resourses I should look at? I found sites with stuff, that I will need ot get started, but what about technique? is it something special? or back and forth?

It’s a _little_ more involved than that. You also have to remember that you’re supposed to be having fun instead of stressing. Seriously, though, we’re fishermen, and therefore opinionated bastards who will turn any question into a holy war. Try to remember that it’s nothing personal. I recommend a real live casting lesson. If you can find a guide who will include one in a day’s guiding, that might be even better. If not, ask at a local fly shop. I tried to teach myself from a video from Orvis, and I’m not entirely happy with that method. As far as gear…for starter gear, I would personally look at St. Croix, Cabelas, or the lower-end Sage rods.  If you can find a local shop that stocks them and doesn’t hard-sell the more expensive stuff, then go there. But remember: fly shops are all too often trying to sell rods, rather than selling you the _right_ rod for your needs. (I knew one exception, in Overland Park, KS. But supposedly there’s a really good one in Loveland, CO, if you’re anywhere near there.) "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

Response:

I’m happy to report that George Harvey was also at the picnic, in good health. Wow, he’s got to be almost 90, that’s cool.  Joe Humphreys told me it was George who passed the baton to him for teaching the fly fishing course.

That’s right. If I remember right he just recently retired (Joe).

 Joe retired ten or so years ago, IIRC. He was succeeded by Vance McCullough, who either retired or just left the faculty to run a bar-restaurant (mostly a student hangout) with his brother. I’ve heard the name of the present instructor, but I don’t recall it. vince norris

Response:

   see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice?

Snip a bunch of nice shit. All this nice shit is enough to make me want to dye my hair pink, join a punk rock band and throw up on the audience. Big Dale

Response:

       see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice? Snip a bunch of nice shit. All this nice shit is enough to make me want to dye my hair pink, join a punk rock band and throw up on the audience. Big Dale

KEEEEWL….Can I play bass?  If you gots a bass player, can I play harpsicord? Got my Funksteiner all tuned, my Rit and safety pins, and ready to go….Sid’s ded, but Messrs. Cook and Lydon can be had…Anyone know where Biafra is at? JELLO…is you out there? GOD SAVE THE QUEEN AND HER FACIST REGIME!!! we gonna make jake and elwood look like pikers!

Response:

I’m taking an intermediate fly-fishing class at our local university this Saturday.  :-) Good idea?  Yes.

They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Nice post, Wayne. Willi

Nice of you to go the trouble to post that, Willi. Regards, Jeff

Response:

They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)?

I think they’ve had fly fishing offered at Penn State for many years. Maybe Frogspritz can shed some light on this. Mu

Response:

They teach flyfishing at a university? Do they offer advanced degrees? Can you get a PhD in flyfishing? Are you studying entomology and physics (i.e., casting)? I think they’ve had fly fishing offered at Penn State for many years. Maybe Frogspritz can shed some light on this.

Oregon State has had it for at least the last 8 years.  Never took it oddly enough, saw them out casting to the "grass trout" on sunny days though.      - Ken

Response:

I believe you may have struck a nerve, Vern!  However, I must say you egged this one on. So much for the niceness that Wayne Harrison wrote about. Let the *Games* begin. Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The URL is on my web-site which is bellow.  Other than that, I’m not going to say a word.  Is that okay with you Ken? Oh, blow it out yer ass, you despicable cretin. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

        see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice?  oh, god, it’s so nice!!  and now the entire web will know us as nice guys!  and all our sins of arrogance and impatience will be forgiven, all because ken is nice, now!  and maybe dozens of nice guys will learn about how nice it is to flyfish, and how nice the guys who flyfish really are!  and, with luck, they will come in their thousands to fish with us, bringing their children, and their golden labs, all driving relentlessly toward the fast running blue cold water, driving in their discos and ‘ru’s and ernie bauers, until we join together in one surging mass of deliriously happy nice people, all wealthy, healthy and wise, because we are, in the final analysis, so deeply *nice*!

Nice post, Wayne. Willi

Response:

Deleted some good advice I recommend seeking out a mentor, a flyfishing friend or some willing member of a local Trout Unlimited or Federation of Fly Fishers chapter to teach you the basics. Failing that, hire a guide that’s willing to teach you the rudiments.

Finding someone to help you will definitely save you alot of trial and error, mostly error. I had been fly fishing on and off for a number of years before I found another fly fisherman to fish with (my family were spin fishermen). I learned the first couple of days fishing with this person than I had learned over several years on my own and through reading. Back to watch the Avs beat the Wings Willi

Response:

 see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.

Nah.  Some alien stole Ken’s keyboard and his body…….OH and chiggers with a fucking ALIEN!!!  Oh man, I DON’T wanna do this anymore!

Response:

       see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice? Snip a bunch of nice shit. All this nice shit is enough to make me want to dye my hair pink, join a punk rock band and throw up on the audience. Big Dale

LMAO! Man, *that’s* imagery! /daytripper (bringing a rain coat to NC for sure ;^)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –      see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice? Snip a bunch of nice shit. All this nice shit is enough to make me want to dye my hair pink, join a punk rock band and throw up on the audience. Big Dale KEEEEWL….Can I play bass?  If you gots a bass player, can I play harpsicord? Got my Funksteiner all tuned, my Rit and safety pins, and ready to go….Sid’s ded, but Messrs. Cook and Lydon can be had…Anyone know where Biafra is at? JELLO…is you out there? GOD SAVE THE QUEEN AND HER FACIST REGIME!!! we gonna make jake and elwood look like pikers!

Remember, the drummer gets to choke to death on someone else’s vomit! Squiggy

Response:

The URL is on my web-site which is bellow.  Other than that, I’m not going to say a word.  Is that okay with you Ken?

Oh, blow it out yer ass, you despicable cretin. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Hi guys! I drive by a river on most days, and I keep thinking…. hmmmmm I would love to try fly fishing…. But of course I dont know the first thing.. is there any resourses I should look at? I found sites with stuff, that I will need ot get started, but what about technique? is it something special? or back and forth? Thanks in Advance Dan

Response:

Hi guys! I drive by a river on most days, and I keep thinking…. hmmmmm I would love to try fly fishing…. But of course I dont know the first thing.. is there any resourses I should look at? I found sites with stuff, that I will need ot get started, but what about technique? is it something special? or back and forth?

We generally recommend the _Curtis Creek Manifesto_ by Sheridan Anderson   Frank Amato Pubns; ISBN: 0936608064 and a trip to your local flyshop for gear help. Lately some folks have been recommending inexpensive mail order gear. Flyfishermen tend to be an opinionated and cantankerous lot so you’ll probably not find a consensus on this topic, or any other for that matter, in this forum. We do have a FAQ and hopefully someone that knows the URL will point you to it. I recommend seeking out a mentor, a flyfishing friend or some willing member of a local Trout Unlimited or Federation of Fly Fishers chapter to teach you the basics. Failing that, hire a guide that’s willing to teach you the rudiments. Good luck. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

We do have a FAQ and hopefully someone that knows the URL will point you to it.

The URL is on my web-site which is bellow.  Other than that, I’m not going to say a word.  Is that okay with you Ken? — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

I would try checking out your local video store or public library for an "intro to flyfishing" video. There’s alot more than just "back and forth", although you’d never guess it by reading ROFF…

I’m taking an intermediate fly-fishing class at our local university this Saturday.  :-) Good idea?  Yes. — Vern My ROFF page: http://msnhomepages.talkcity.com/ResortRd/v_deloy/ROFFintro.html Before you buy.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -We generally recommend the _Curtis Creek Manifesto_ by Sheridan Anderson   Frank Amato Pubns; ISBN: 0936608064 and a trip to your local flyshop for gear help. Lately some folks have been recommending inexpensive mail order gear. Flyfishermen tend to be an opinionated and cantankerous lot so you’ll probably not find a consensus on this topic, or any other for that matter, in this forum. We do have a FAQ and hopefully someone that knows the URL will point you to it. I recommend seeking out a mentor, a flyfishing friend or some willing member of a local Trout Unlimited or Federation of Fly Fishers chapter to teach you the basics. Failing that, hire a guide that’s willing to teach you the rudiments. Good luck. — Ken Fortenberry

        see, goddammit, ken *can* be nice.  *we* can be nice!  isn’t that nice?  oh, god, it’s so nice!!  and now the entire web will know us as nice guys!  and all our sins of arrogance and impatience will be forgiven, all because ken is nice, now!  and maybe dozens of nice guys will learn about how nice it is to flyfish, and how nice the guys who flyfish really are!  and, with luck, they will come in their thousands to fish with us, bringing their children, and their golden labs, all driving relentlessly toward the fast running blue cold water, driving in their discos and ‘ru’s and ernie bauers, until we join together in one surging mass of deliriously happy nice people, all wealthy, healthy and wise, because we are, in the final analysis, so deeply *nice*!         wayno

Response:

Question:

I would like the groups opinion on a magnetic fly holder for your vest. It would consist of a plastic mold shaped like a fly reel or a trout head. It would not be too large. I would mount a rare earth magnet from behind in the center. The plastic would have nice detail. The magnet would not be so large or weigh a ton, but will hold a bunch of flies without falling off. Retail for $5.99 – Any thoughts? — Rick Maston RM Specialties http://www.canoeoutriggers.com

Response:

Hey that’s a great idea. The one I bought a Orvis a few years ago works great. sf

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I would like the groups opinion on a magnetic fly holder for your vest. It would consist of a plastic mold shaped like a fly reel or a trout head. It would not be too large. I would mount a rare earth magnet from behind in the center. The plastic would have nice detail. The magnet would not be so large or weigh a ton, but will hold a bunch of flies without falling off. Retail for $5.99 – Any thoughts? — Rick Maston RM Specialties http://www.canoeoutriggers.com

Response:

Missed the original post. Have wondered whether magnetized hooks (as a result of using a "tach-it" type fly box) might have a weak field that fishies might not like.

Response:

I would like the groups opinion on a magnetic fly holder for your vest.  - Any thoughts?

I use magnets to hold hooks and various other thing at my tying bench but would never use them on the stream.  It’s hard enough to navigate through brush or even to make routine casts without losing flies (even with barbed hooks) from a normal drying patch.  I can’t imagine a magnet strong enough to keep flies from evaporating from one’s vest.

Response:

I use magnets to hold hooks and various other thing at my tying bench but would never use them on the stream.  It’s hard enough to navigate through brush or even to make routine casts without losing flies (even with barbed hooks) from a normal drying patch.  I can’t imagine a magnet strong enough to keep flies from evaporating from one’s vest.

I have this problem with barbless hooks (where I’m required to use them). A while back, Mike Connor suggested a perforated (i.e., ventilated) 35mm film capsule for temporary storage of ‘used’ flies. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Tony, 35mm film capsules have many uses in fly fishing. 1. Shipping or carrying flies so they don’t get crushed. 2. Holding powdered desiccant for drying flies. 3. Holding small quantities of Albolene to use for waterproofing your fly. 4. Keeping an insect for later study. 5. Keeping split shot. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have this problem with barbless hooks (where I’m required to use them). A while back, Mike Connor suggested a perforated (i.e., ventilated) 35mm film capsule for temporary storage of ‘used’ flies. Tony Deacon

Response:

Tony, 35mm film capsules have many uses in fly fishing. 1. Shipping or carrying flies so they don’t get crushed. 2. Holding powdered desiccant for drying flies. 3. Holding small quantities of Albolene to use for waterproofing your fly. 4. Keeping an insect for later study. 5. Keeping split shot.

And the rest! Been using them for all sorts of things for years, but Mike’s suggestion was new to me. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Try using the clear ones as dubbing containers. A 1/2" hole ( to taste, and to suit dubbing ) drilled in the base, fill the capsule, cap it, stand it on its cap in a suitable tray.  Great for all sorts of dubbing materials. With a smaller hole, wool,  floss, chenille, etc, may also be stored very well. Poke one end of the stuff through the hole, fill the container with the remainder, cap it, and place it in your tray. I prefer the black ones as "drying boxes", they heat up almost as well as UPS trucks it seems !  A small hole drilled in the side makes them excellent wire dispensers as well, saves horrible great tangles of fine brass wire on the bench !  If you use a few sewing spools for fine tippet material, you can get four or five of these in a container, drill small holes at the relevant spots, bingo, a super tippet dispenser, pack a little cotton wool in the container to keep the spools from jiggling about.  If you need a bigger one for larger spools, a short length of plastic drainpipe from your local DIY market works even better. You can buy the caps there as well. TL MC

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tony, 35mm film capsules have many uses in fly fishing. 1. Shipping or carrying flies so they don’t get crushed. 2. Holding powdered desiccant for drying flies. 3. Holding small quantities of Albolene to use for waterproofing your fly. 4. Keeping an insect for later study. 5. Keeping split shot. And the rest! Been using them for all sorts of things for years, but Mike’s suggestion was new to me. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

You’d better save up those film capsules while you can. In a few years everything will be digital and you’ll have a hard time even finding 35mm film. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Tony, 35mm film capsules have many uses in fly fishing.

I’ve noticed that persons of a certain era and background tend to instinctively shake those containers when they pick them up. Joe F.

Response:

Tony, 35mm film capsules have many uses in fly fishing. I’ve noticed that persons of a certain era and background tend to instinctively shake those containers when they pick them up.

What is the era and background?  What does that mean? Vern

Response:

Joe,    I think this was a carry over from the days when they were made of metal, black or red plastic and you couldn’t tell if there was anything in them unless you opened them or shook them.  The younger generation that have only seen the ones made of translucent plastic probably won’t have that affliction. Ernie Harrison Have you tried a Blood Knot Machine?  http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Tony, 35mm film capsules have many uses in fly fishing. I’ve noticed that persons of a certain era and background tend to instinctively shake those containers when they pick them up. Joe F.

Response:

Tony, 35mm film capsules have many uses in fly fishing. I’ve noticed that persons of a certain era and background tend to instinctively shake those containers when they pick them up.

Don’t Bogart that film my friend, pass it over to me!

Response:

What is the era and background?  What does that mean?

I’ve always said that a straightforward question deserves a straightforward answer, so: From my perspective, I was referring to the late ’60’s and early ’70’s when small quantities of certain illegal substances, primarily marijuana, was stored in these convenient little containers.   The freshness, portability, and cheapness of the container being matched by its commonality and opacity. Accordingly, it was very much a favorite among those inclined to partake of that substance. The container’s opacity, while providing some security against the inquisitive eyes of mom, dad or "the man", also prevented its owner from knowing whether the container in quetion was full, empty, or contained film. Thus, it was necessary to shake the container upon lifting to listen for that telltale herbal sound. As for me of course, I never touched the stuff.   I don’t even know what it looks like.   Honest.   What was the question again? Joe F.

Response:

… From my perspective, I was referring to the late ’60’s and early ’70’s …

From a somewhat younger perspective, I know peers from the mid ’70’s that also automatically do the "canister shake test". — Ken Fortenberry- Never touched the stuff either

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the era and background?  What does that mean? I’ve always said that a straightforward question deserves a straightforward answer, so: From my perspective, I was referring to the late ’60’s and early ’70’s when small quantities of certain illegal substances, primarily marijuana, was stored in these convenient little containers.   The freshness, portability, and cheapness of the container being matched by its commonality and opacity. Accordingly, it was very much a favorite among those inclined to partake of that substance. The container’s opacity, while providing some security against the inquisitive eyes of mom, dad or "the man", also prevented its owner from knowing whether the container in quetion was full, empty, or contained film. Thus, it was necessary to shake the container upon lifting to listen for that telltale herbal sound. As for me of course, I never touched the stuff.   I don’t even know what it looks like.   Honest.   What was the question again? Joe F.

 And of course Joe, those of us that, from time to time, had such containers in our possesion, never, at any time, inhaled!!  No- not ever!!- unless faced with those occasional medical emergencies. Jim Mc

Response:

Now *that’s* a funny .sig!! –Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – From a somewhat younger perspective, I know peers from the mid ’70’s that also automatically do the "canister shake test". — Ken Fortenberry- Never touched the stuff either

Response:

Joe,   I think this was a carry over from the days when they were made of metal, black or red plastic and you couldn’t tell if there was anything in them unless you opened them or shook them.  The younger generation that have only seen the ones made of translucent plastic probably won’t have that affliction.

Today’s are translucent?  The ones I use are made of black plastic. I’ll admit I’ve never seen one made of red plastic though.      - Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I  drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin  current slides away, but eternity remains."    - H.D. Thoreau

Response:

Today’s are translucent?

Yes, Fuji film comes in a translucent container.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What is the era and background?  What does that mean? I’ve always said that a straightforward question deserves a straightforward answer, so: From my perspective, I was referring to the late ’60’s and early ’70’s when small quantities of certain illegal substances, primarily marijuana, was stored in these convenient little containers.   The freshness, portability, and cheapness of the container being matched by its commonality and opacity. Accordingly, it was very much a favorite among those inclined to partake of that substance. The container’s opacity, while providing some security against the inquisitive eyes of mom, dad or "the man", also prevented its owner from knowing whether the container in quetion was full, empty, or contained film. Thus, it was necessary to shake the container upon lifting to listen for that telltale herbal sound. As for me of course, I never touched the stuff.   I don’t even know what it looks like.   Honest.   What was the question again? Joe F.

I have a story about that. Many years ago, in my hippie days, a friend and I were visiting Glacier Park and we decided to drive up to the Canadian park. When we reached the Canadian border we were appalled when the border guard asked us to open the glove compartment. Our stash wasn’t in there, but it easily could have been. Shaken by this experience, we decided not to carry any controlled substances back to the US. We rolled an enormous doobie and tossed the rest out. (This was when decent stuff was relatively cheap.) We rolled up to the US border station with smoke literally billowing out of the car windows. The border guard sized us up and decided to inspect the entire contents of our car. Dazed and confused, we unloaded about a ton of camping junk from the trunk, in front of a Boy Scout troop that was probably working on their law enforcement merit badges. He went through every pocket of each pack, and even looked under the spare tire. After finding nothing incriminating in the trunk, the immigration dude started inspecting the passenger compartment. He went right for the area under the driver’s seat, pulled out a paper bag full of plastic 35mm film canisters, and asked sarcastically, "Take a lot of pictures, do you boys?" "Yes, sir!", we smirked. He opened the canisters and found … exposed film. I kept it there to keep it out of the sun. He sent us on our way. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

< Never touched the stuff either Yeah, yeah …..and even if you did, you didn’t inhale. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Don’t Bogart that film my friend, pass it over to me!

Roooooolllll another one, just like the other one. TL, TD

Response:

Never touched the stuff either Yeah, yeah …..and even if you did, you didn’t inhale.

And even if he did inhale, he didn’t *really* enjoy it.

Response:

Today’s are translucent? Yes, Fuji film comes in a translucent container.

That explains it, I buy Kodak.      - Ken — "Time is but the stream I go a-fishin in. I drink at it, but while I  drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. It’s thin  current slides away, but eternity remains."    - H.D. Thoreau

Response:

Sounds like you’re a shoo-in if you ever decide to run for public office. –Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a story about that. [story about an enormous doobie deleted]

Response:

Question:

Hello, Does anyone know good flyfishing classes offered around pacific NW (in September)?  I live in Seattle area and am new to flyfishing.  In fact I’ve never flyfished before but been curious about it for a while now.  I have couple of buddies who are also interested in flyfishing so we thought taking a class would be great way to get into the sport of flyfishing. Obviously we don’t have any equipments so we are looking for classes that rent necessary equipments. I am looking for weekend class (1-3 days). We don’t mind traveling as far as BC area (in fact we prefer that class is held away from Seattle proper so we can make this a road trip!) Any info, pointers, and suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, KC

Response:

Did you try fly shops?  Most of them either have lessons or know who does.  

Response:

There are several fly shops in the area that will either have classes you can take or will simply take you out to the parking lot and show you how to cast. In Bellevue try:     Kaufmanns Streamborn (By K-Mart) http://www.kman.com     Orvis (NE 10th and Bellevie Way) In Woodinville try Swedes In Seattle try:     Kaufmanns Downtown store     Patricks Flyshop     Outdoor Emporium     Avid Angler http://www.AvidAngler.com I often go to many of these shops and every one of them have very helpful poeple who should be able to get you started. You might also try getting in touch with the Overlake Fly Fishing Club (http://www.offc.superhighway.net) or the Washington Fly Fishing Club to see if their members would be willing to help. I’m fairly certain you will get help at either one. Disclaimer, I have no affiliation with any of the above but merely enjoy each for their own pluses and minuses. Gary Johnson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Does anyone know good flyfishing classes offered around pacific NW (in September)?  I live in Seattle area and am new to flyfishing.  In fact I’ve never flyfished before but been curious about it for a while now.  I have couple of buddies who are also interested in flyfishing so we thought taking a class would be great way to get into the sport of flyfishing. Obviously we don’t have any equipments so we are looking for classes that rent necessary equipments. I am looking for weekend class (1-3 days). We don’t mind traveling as far as BC area (in fact we prefer that class is held away from Seattle proper so we can make this a road trip!) Any info, pointers, and suggestions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks, KC

Response:

Question:

I really like AMERICAN FLY TYING MANUAL, by Dave Hughes, l986 originally, pub. by Frank Amato Publications, (PH# 503-653-8108), outstanding color photos of nearly 300 patterns, with full description of materials used and some info on how to tie them.  I bought  my copy several years ago at GI Joes store in Portland, Oregon. Good Luck!

Response:

http://www.kbrcomm.com/btwc/flytyingbooks.html It is a great resource. But does anybody know who stocks the binder version at a discount? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <<I’d like to find a good book that has good color  pictures of the different fly patterns commonly used in the West.  What are your recommendations? "Fly Patterns of Umpqua Feather Merchants" by Randall Kaufmann. Get the ring binder version — it lies flat.  I do not like the way the fly patterns are displayed – alphabetically, rather than by type, (i.e. caddis, mayfly, stonefly, etc.) but the photos are excellent. Dave LaCourse

Response:

I’d like to find a good book that has good color  pictures of the different fly patterns commonly used in the West.  What are your recommendations? I’ve been fly fishing a very short time and still have diffculty recognizing the different patterns.  So, when I go into a shop and see that pattern x is hot, I don’t know what it looks like, or if I already have some.

Response:

<<I’d like to find a good book that has good color  pictures of the different fly patterns commonly used in the West.  What are your recommendations? "Fly Patterns of Umpqua Feather Merchants" by Randall Kaufmann. Get the ring binder version — it lies flat.  I do not like the way the fly patterns are displayed – alphabetically, rather than by type, (i.e. caddis, mayfly, stonefly, etc.) but the photos are excellent. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Question:

If you leave them outside in a worm box, watch out for ants, they will go for the dead ones and really take over the whole box. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Why your yard ? Wait till the rain falls and the temp. is about 54-56 deg. Go out in a neighborhood that doesn’t have curbs and pick them up off the street NEAR the edge of the grass. Put them in the fridge (about 45-50 deg.) in a container of damp (use rain water)buss bedding (wal-mart) and they will keep for weeks.(pick out the dead ones once in a while)..Enjoy                                                                       SuqRivGui                                                       Allen

Response:

got a old crank telephone and some wire and a couple of long rods???…use your imagination and wear rubber boots and gloves.be sure to go when it is wet .  they can jump about 2-3′ so cath them in a bucket as they fall.  no mess. It also help to read any storey about Mark Twain to them exactually 34 minutes before cranking the phone..  

Response:

I have heard of a few things to gather earthworms. {snip} Oh, there is one more way.  Lay in the yard and make a sound like an apple.

EXCELLENT!!!! Seriously, I can’t stop laughing!!! Remember: a bad day of fishing is better than a good day at work!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Once you have gone fishing, put the extra worms in a flower bed, or in your garden.  They will help the soil, and soon, you will have a reliable source of wigglies.  Don’t poison them with insecticides of fertilizer, though. Steve, the DsrtTravlr

Response:

try a 5 gallon bucket of soapy water on damp ground that you know contains crawlers 10–15 minutes should have all you need.

Response:

conesus lake (finger lakes region) $500/week see http://members.aol.com/cobbshill/cottage.html for details http://members.aol.com/cobbshill

Response:

At dusk just put the sprinkler on in the front yard,  let it run for an hour or two, until the ground is soaked.  After dark turn it off, get your flashlight and pail and go pick them up.  Because of the water in the ground they will be lying right on top.  It works like a charm in my yard although it is kinda of a muddy procedure.  Good luck.. Lorry…….I fish, therefore I am

Response:

I am really intersted in trying to catch my own nite crawlers in my yard.  I’ve heard of sticking a pitch fork in the ground and wiggling it, watering the lawn, and a lot of other things, but from your personell experiences, what is the best way to get them?  Oh yeah, what is a GRUNT WORM?  Are they in Michigan or what?  And one more thing, besides this one, what is another good fishing newsgroup?  Thanks so much, talk to you later!

Response:

I am really intersted in trying to catch my own nite crawlers in my yard.  I’ve heard of sticking a pitch fork in the ground and wiggling it, watering the lawn, and a lot of other things, but from your personell experiences, what is the best way to get them?  Oh yeah, what is a GRUNT WORM?  Are they in Michigan or what?  And one more thing, besides this one, what is another good fishing newsgroup?  Thanks so much, talk to you later!

Hi Matt, If you have them in your yard it won’t be hard. Some people use electricity to get them out, but it can be a little dangerous. We went out at night with a can or bag and a little flashlight in our mouth on our hands and knees. You would see the night crawlers shin and then just grab them. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

I am really intersted in trying to catch my own nite crawlers in my yard.  I’ve heard of sticking a pitch fork in the ground and wiggling it, watering the lawn, and a lot of other things, but from your personell experiences, what is the best way to get them?  Oh yeah, what is a GRUNT WORM?  Are they in Michigan or what?  And one more thing, besides this one, what is another good fishing newsgroup?  Thanks so much, talk to you later!

I always liked catching night crawlers in Upstate Ny.  The night dew would usually bring them out.  You can find them just about everywhere, especially in gardens and flower beds. Alos, you need to wear sneakers and walk very lightly.  When you grab one, do not pull too hard or it will break off.  I first just stop it from going back in, and then pull gently straight up or at the angle of the hole.  Usually can get about 12 dozen in about 2 hours.   You can keep them easily enough, too.  We would buy the worm bedding, or mix some dirt with moist dead leaves.  Keep them in a large container in the basement where it is always cool and damp.  They’ll keep all summer, and will even reproduce. Good hunting, Joe

Response:

I have heard of a few things to gather earthworms. One is electricity.  It is hazardous. Alternating current worm getters were sold, and then recalled when people ended up laying in the grass and writhing along with the worms.  I have heard that the current from a battery charger will work.  With any electricity, you have to be very careful.   Grunting for worms is when you take two thin pieces of wood about 2-3 feet long.  Originally, they used two barrel staves.  One was held with one hand pushing it down into the ground.  The other stave was raked across the one in the ground with a violin bow motion making a "grunting" noise. The frequency of the sounds would cause the worms to become uncomfortable, and they would come to the surface.   I have also heard that spraying a light bleach solution on grass makes them come out.  Don’t know what it does to the yard. I think that the time of day has a lot to do with gathering worms, with the evening and very early morning hours being the best.  I have had good success after a rain, too.   Oh, there is one more way.  Lay in the yard and make a sound like an apple. Once you have gone fishing, put the extra worms in a flower bed, or in your garden.  They will help the soil, and soon, you will have a reliable source of wigglies.  Don’t poison them with insecticides of fertilizer, though. Steve, the DsrtTravlr

Response:

I am really intersted in trying to catch my own nite crawlers in my yard. —  Thanks so much, talk to you later!

Find and get a product called "Worm-Up"  Believe me this stuff really works, is harmless both to the worms and your yard and you’ll get all the "Dew Worms" (which is what your "nite crawler" is usually called in Ontario!!!) that you’ll ever need!! Just follow the package instructions and you can pick ‘em up right  off the top of the ground, in broad daylight!!!!  Even in places where you’d never expect to find ‘em, like an asphalt driveway, maybe? I don’t have any commercial interest in this product, but I got a sample package at the "Canadian Sportsman Show" many years ago and when I found it really worked I went and bought some more! "Le Baron’s" always carries it in Canada, anyway. Phil

Response:

Why your yard ? Wait till the rain falls and the temp. is about 54-56 deg. Go out in a neighborhood that doesn’t have curbs and pick them up off the street NEAR the edge of the grass. Put them in the fridge (about 45-50 deg.) in a container of damp (use rain water)buss bedding (wal-mart) and they will keep for weeks.(pick out the dead ones once in a while)..Enjoy                                                                       SuqRivGui                                                       Allen

Response:

Question:

Hi everyone,         I am new to this sport.  I’ve been spin-fishing for all my life and was suddenly introduced to the world of fly-fishing last summer.  I am a beginner and would like to know where to purchase informative videos on this sport. My starting outfit consists of the L.L.Bean angler outfit (8 1/2 ft. 6-7 wt. rod and reel).  My local library doesn’t stock many books on the subject either, so if you have any recommendations, please e-mail them to me.  I accidentally broke about 3 inches off of my rod tip in my car window (damn those power windows!) and I would like to know how to go about repairing it. L.L.Bean said it would take 1-1 1/2 months!  Is the rod going to be as serviceable after repair?  Is my starting outfit of a quality worth investing into a repair?  If anyone would like to share their wisdom with me, I would greatly appreciate it!  If you wish to give me a hand, please e-mail me at:                                 Humbly Yours,                                 Robert Greenleaf  (Rob) P.S. I am also looking for someone to correspond with regarding tips and tactics until I am better versed in this sport.  I am a sport fisherman who believes in sustainable fishing.  Thank you once again.

Response:

: Hi everyone, :         I am new to this sport.  I’ve been spin-fishing for all my life and was : suddenly introduced to the world of fly-fishing last summer.  I am a beginner : and would like to know where to purchase informative videos on this sport. If you want specifics, I think the older 3M – Doug Swisher series is great.  Swisher is a good instructor, except he makes me mad the way he *always* hooks a large fish.  *Always*.  Even his buddies he brings in to help get large fish.  I wonder how that works…<g "Oh…Good Fish on!  Big Rainbow.  Good Fish…"  Thanks for the informative commentary, Doug. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Question:

   My girlfriend (an elementary school teacher) just showed me a wonderful childrens’ book.  It’s called         A River Dream, by Allen Say.    In the book, a little boy in bed at home receives a gift from his uncle: a flybox.  When he opens the flybox, a bunch of live mayflies fly out and disappear out his bedroom window.  He looks out the window, and where once was an ordinary street scene he sees a beautiful mountain stream with a boat.    The little boy gets in the boat and heads downstream, where he encounters his uncle out flyfishing.  The uncle (who practices catch and release, by the way) teaches the little boy to fish, which of course results in the little boy catching a lunker of a rainbow.    The book (as with all Allen Say books) is beautifully illustrated, and the story is well-written.  I highly recommend it for adults and your kids alike!          - Scott —         Scott Wilkinson         Montgomery County, Maryland

Response:

:    My girlfriend (an elementary school teacher) just showed me a : wonderful childrens’ book.  It’s called :       A River Dream, by Allen Say. : the story is well-written.  I highly recommend it for adults and your kids alike! Could you provide the publisher’s name and an ISBN? — Newfoundland and Labrador Science  and Technology Advisory Council                Tel     (709) 738-3400 114 Empire Ave., St. John’s, NF    A1B 1C7      Fax     (709) 738-3276

Response: