Question:

Fly fishing woman wanted…. I’m a 41, slim, intelligent  (I hope) Australian male, who’s gainfully employed, passionate about life, the universe, travel & fly fishing. You – hopefully similar to the above & relax – no need to know how to scale or gut fish, as I let them go to catch another day.

Response:

Fly fishing woman wanted….

Well, best of luck to ya, mate — but if anybody offers to meet with you while wearing a pink satan evening gown, run like hell… In the meantime, you might want to do a Google search for Angie the Fishing Goddess. Kevin, Roffian matchmaker

Response:

Thank you Kevin Pink’s never been my favourite color anyway

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fly fishing woman wanted…. Well, best of luck to ya, mate — but if anybody offers to meet with you while wearing a pink satan evening gown, run like hell… In the meantime, you might want to do a Google search for Angie the Fishing Goddess. Kevin, Roffian matchmaker

Response:

In the meantime, you might want to do a Google search for Angie the Fishing Goddess.

She’s married and having a baby. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

Fly fishing woman wanted…. I’m a 41, slim, intelligent  (I hope) Australian male, who’s gainfully employed, passionate about life, the universe, travel & fly fishing. You – hopefully similar to the above & relax – no need to know how to scale or gut fish, as I let them go to catch another day.

You forgot "Send picture of rod"…;-) Wish You luck, having a partner with the same interest would make life a lot easier, trust me… (are You going fishing again…, I never get out anything…) Stefan

Response:

In the meantime, you might want to do a Google search for Angie the Fishing Goddess. She’s married and having a baby.

She has friends! — I fly fish so therefore I am.

Response:

Make sure she will clean the fish! — Fly Fisherman With a Furless Naked Cat named Dub.

Response:

She’s married and having a baby.

Orvis Boy?

Response:

Orvis Boy?

Yep. — Warren change addy to yahoo for email Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt3/HFclave.html

Response:

Question:

Hello Fred Bringman I recently got a good deal on several spools of WF-7-F Orvis Drift Boat Fly Line.  The problem is the flyline is a very bright fluorescent Orange. Can flyline be dyed?  If so can anyone give me some guidance on how to dye the line to get a much softer color.

Found this scroll to the bottom of the page http://www.greensboro.com/flyfish/news/1999_10.htm Thank you in advance.

you are welcome. Fred

– Don’t Worry, Be Happy! IRC Sandyb in #Rabble uk1.arcnet.vapor.com port:6667 Sandy (http://www.ftscotland.co.uk)

Response:

I recently got a good deal on several spools of WF-7-F Orvis Drift Boat Fly Line.  The problem is the flyline is a very bright fluorescent Orange.

OK, someone give me a clue: WTF makes a line a "drift boat fly line"? /daytripper (um…with a collection of…um…"non-drift boat fly lines"…)

Response:

I recently got a good deal on several spools of WF-7-F Orvis Drift Boat Fly Line.  The problem is the flyline is a very bright fluorescent Orange. OK, someone give me a clue: WTF makes a line a "drift boat fly line"? /daytripper (um…with a collection of…um…"non-drift boat fly lines"…)

Because it’s orange (gotta tell this guy everything – sheesh.) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fly lines dye particularly easily, much easier than it would seem. Here in New Zealand we use subdued colored lines and are used to dieing fly-lines of visiting U.S. anglers. We do about 3 a week at the lodge I am with. A standard Ritt dye in Dark Olive is usually pretty effective and gives a nice finish. The dye is mixed in a largish pot and brought to boiling point, then it is left to cool until you can just tolerate putting your finger in (Careful with this bit, of all the lines we’ve done we’ve never damaged one but a couple of fingers have been The line is then put into the dye in loose coils and weighted down so it’s submerged. it’s then left over night. In the morning a rinse is all that’s required to have the line ready for use. As a rule we usually only do the last 20 or so feet of line, but there’s no reason not to dye the whole thing. I know it would appear that the heat would destroy the plastic. The reality is, it doesn’t.

And this works, or seems to, for all line types, without apparent lessening of any factor?  The reason I’m curious is that it would seem that if it readily absorbs the dye, it would seem to readily absorb water.  I also have to wonder (really "wonder," not sarcastically "gotta wonder ’bout that" – I have no idea what chemicals are present, and so, have no idea of the possible effects) if the dye causes any ill-effects to the line, coating, etc.  And something else just occurred to me: if the water-based dye penetrates to the braid, what about the weight of the dye, and how long do you have to wait for the water to evaporate out – it seems simply rinsing and going would be using a "water- and dye-logged" line, but ??? My "cowboy logic" tells me that if this were both a good idea and readily-workable as "SOP," that someone would have marketed a white line with dyes available, given all the falderall over line color.  Of course, perhaps someone does, and I just don’t know about it <G… I’d like to hear more about this, please. TC R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hope that helps. Clark

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Fred Bringman I recently got a good deal on several spools of WF-7-F Orvis Drift Boat Fly Line.  The problem is the flyline is a very bright fluorescent Orange. Can flyline be dyed?  If so can anyone give me some guidance on how to dye the line to get a much softer color. Found this scroll to the bottom of the page http://www.greensboro.com/flyfish/news/1999_10.htm Thank you in advance. you are welcome. Fred

One note of caution for Airflo fans.  Their lines are polyurethane not PVC and melt at  much lower temperature.  I just found out the hard way when I used a heat gun to tighten some heat shrink tubing.   Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

And this works, or seems to, for all line types, without apparent lessening of any factor?  The reason I’m curious is that it would seem that if it readily absorbs the dye, it would seem to readily absorb water.

Not necessarily.  I’m no dye expert, but I do a lot of tissue staining in my day job, and I suspect that much of the chemistry is very similar.  The fact that a dye is in aqueous solution and that the dye is capable of penetrating a given material doesn’t necessarily mean that the water will be carried along into that material.  Remember that while a plactic may be hydrophobic, it cannot avoid coming into close contact with water it is immersed in. This, obviously, also brings dyes molecules into contact.  The individual dye molecules may or may not pass directly from the water into the surface of the plastic depending on the chemistry involved, and may also penetrate to some depth, again, without carrying any of the water. I also have to wonder (really "wonder," not sarcastically "gotta wonder ’bout that" – I have no idea what chemicals are present, and so, have no idea of the possible effects) if the dye causes any ill-effects to the line, coating, etc.

There is a wide range of chemical reactions which may take place in dyeing. Some of them can be very destructive to either the dyes or the substrates, or both, depending on their chemical and physical properties.  The addition of mordants or other adjuncts can also complicate matters.  That said, it is also obvious that dyeing is a hugely successful and pretty well understood practice.  There are doubtless all kinds of good references which would help one determine in advance whether a particular application is safe and effective for a given material, but they can be hard to ferret out.  It’s best to find out from manufacturers (if possible) what their recommendations are.  If that isn’t possible or practical, testing on scraps is the next best thing.  But, on the face of it, the mere fact that a dye penetrates into a material is no reason to be concerned that it reacts in any harmful way.  The bad news is that when damage DOES occur, it is not necessarily immediately obvious.  Some problems take a while to develop to the point where they are noticeable.  Meanwhile, if others have had success in using a given brand and color of dye on a particular line, I’m inclined to believe that it’s safe enough, but this does NOT mean that any dye will be effective and safe with any line.  Still best to err on the side of caution. And something else just occurred to me: if the water-based dye penetrates to the braid, what about the weight of the dye, and how long do you have to wait for the water to evaporate out – it seems simply rinsing and going would be using a "water- and dye-logged" line, but ???

All of the above notwithstanding, it IS possible that something in a dye will react with a line coating to reduce it’s hydrophobic qualities.  If this does happen, the ultimate result is questionable, but I suspect that the damage will likely be permanent and the line destroyed.  The problem is that some sort of chemical reaction has taken place and the odds that it will be reversed on drying are vanishingly small. My "cowboy logic" tells me that if this were both a good idea and readily-workable as "SOP," that someone would have marketed a white line with dyes available, given all the falderall over line color.

Much more profitable to sell someone another line, I should think. Of course, perhaps someone does, and I just don’t know about it <G…

I’ve never heard of any such either. I’d like to hear more about this, please.

Even more than this?     Wolfgang

Response:

See articles on dyeing fly-lines here; http://www.flugfiskesidan.com/magazine/uk/current.asp http://www.greensboro.com/flyfish/news/1999_10.htm  ( Scroll down) http://www.steelheadsite.com/rigging/messages/2606.shtml http://www.iffa.org.uk/dyinglines.htm TL MC

Response:

As you will see if you read the articles. At least one author says that dyeing the lines reduces their useful life up to 30%. My own experiments along these lines, ( sorry!), suggest that the dyeing process leaches out quite a lot of the PVC softeners, and there may also be some chemical reactions, which cause the lines to crack prematurely. I have dyed quite a few lines in the past, but don

Question:

BTW, why not include the arbor knot? You have to attach the backing to the spool somehow. Yeah, but the guys at Orvis do that one.

They probably tie your needle knots, too. How many other people in ROFF have been streamside with a supposedly experienced flyfisherman who, when it came time to tie on a leader, had no idea how to do it? The clinch knot and nail knot both can be replaced by the Uni knot if you like.

But EVERY knot can be replaced by the clinch knot. Just ask Wayno if he ever reappears. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

How many other people in ROFF have been streamside with a supposedly experienced flyfisherman who, when it came time to tie on a leader, had no idea how to do it?

This has happened to me numerous times.  Also, many people apparently change their ( looped ),leaders at an amazing rate, because they are unable to even tie tippet on.   If you have enough time and money I don

Question:

I have guide trips booked on the Bitterroot and Beaverhead in late August. Some of the fly shop reports say don’t bother going. My guides say there will be plenty of water and that the Bitterroot will start having more water in the next few days from dam releases. What is the real story?? Thanks.

Response:

It’ll be worth it no matter what. One of the more beautiful places in the world you can spend time sitting in a boat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have guide trips booked on the Bitterroot and Beaverhead in late August. Some of the fly shop reports say don’t bother going. My guides say there will be plenty of water and that the Bitterroot will start having more water in the next few days from dam releases. What is the real story?? Thanks.

Response:

The Beaverhead is absolutely not fishable!  Just kidding, actually there have been some good reports.  It looked easier to fish from a boat than wading though. Got questions?  Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com

Response:

Fishable from ‘dam releases’??? The Bitterroot is a freestone. There is Painted Rocks Reservoir but it’s not a large body of water and I don’t think they are going to increase the release from it any time soon (at least till rain and/or September comes. I even question it then. There is still water in the river but the lower portion is less than half its normal flow. FWP has already requested people not fish or restrict their fishing to early morning/late evening. What with the dry conditions and all, don’t be surprised if they temporarily ban fishing. The Blackfoot, for example, reached it’s ‘drought implementation plan’ level yesterday. Now they are asking people to stop irrigating, etc. so they can keep a minimum flow in there for the fish. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have guide trips booked on the Bitterroot and Beaverhead in late August. Some of the fly shop reports say don’t bother going. My guides say there will be plenty of water and that the Bitterroot will start having more water in the next few days from dam releases. What is the real story?? Thanks.

Response:

Question:

… You were superb, magnificent It is gratification itself to see one’s work carried on …

I am humbled and honored. I’ve never had reason to expect or to believe myself worthy of such hortatory from the reigning master of malevolent missives. Such is life, C’est la vie. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Daytripper Im sorry but I have to step in here. At my very best I don’t think I could muster such focus, such disdain, such raw anger in a mere one-post, 3 para, performance. This was a notable performance by Ken F. (snip) Dave

        agreed, david.  i’ll have to say, however, that i will have to go with a 9.7.  the cliche replaced, and there she would have been: the first post i have ever seen on roff that i might not have sent. amazing, really amazing. wayno the humbled. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Wayno, Yes. That lad has a talent from on high, and a real future in the field. In some sense the scoring is really inadequate for such high level performances. The problem being there has been no serious attempt to recalibrate the various factors since the advent of talk radio. A revision surely is overdue. On another matter; has the Subcommittee on Southern Appellations had a chance to act on the referral in the matter of the term "redneck" per my post of yesterday, or will you be giving a Summary Ruling from the Chair? Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – agreed, david.  i’ll have to say, however, that i will have to go with a 9.7.  the cliche replaced, and there she would have been: the first post i have ever seen on roff that i might not have sent. amazing, really amazing. wayno the humbled.

Response:

Wayno Excellent! We have our official ruling. Matter settled. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wayno, SNIP SNIP On another matter; has the Subcommittee on Southern Appellations had a chance to act on the referral in the matter of the term "redneck" per my post of yesterday, or will you be giving a Summary Ruling from the Chair? Dave accustomed as i am to operating as an enlightened despot, the latter methodology will be utilized. "redneck" is not a "term".  that noun implies a condition capable of description by the english language.  "redneck", rather, is "being" a way you’ll never know, unless you *is* one. wayno, who ain’t one.

Response:

Wayno, Yes. That lad has a talent from on high, and a real future in the field. In some sense the scoring is really inadequate for such high level performances. The problem being there has been no serious attempt to recalibrate the various factors since the advent of talk radio. A revision surely is overdue. On another matter; has the Subcommittee on Southern Appellations had a chance to act on the referral in the matter of the term "redneck" per my post of yesterday, or will you be giving a Summary Ruling from the Chair? Dave

        accustomed as i am to operating as an enlightened despot, the latter methodology will be utilized.         "redneck" is not a "term".  that noun implies a condition capable of description by the english language.  "redneck", rather, is "being" a way you’ll never know, unless you *is* one.         wayno, who ain’t one.

Response:

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Question:

Hi, I missed the original post, but if it’s tailing loops, Dan is right on – the timings the thing. I would just add that you might also check that ou are indeed throwing the line "up and over". I find that many problems originate when a caster is just whipping the rod, rather than concentrating on putting the fly line up and over the shoulder, this ensures a straight take away, and does a lot to prevent side loops, which most people confuse with tailing loops. Just a thought…. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dan, I have to say that your recent series of posts has been one of the most helpful things I have ever seen in this newsgroup. I’m sure a lot of us have learned from it, even those of us who have been fishing for a while (I can still tail the odd loop just fine after twenty years with a fly rod). We might even have to stop bitching about Orivs for a while… (-: Andrew Andrew N. Herd Associate Editor, Waterlog Magazine http://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/ writes: If the timing is bad, the line drops well below the plane on the forward cast before you bring it forward and it can hit the line.  Practicing your casting at times other than just when you’re fishing can go a long way to develop the sense of timing needed to correct this.  A practical exercise to allow you to see the cast without swiveling your shoulders (swiveling shoulders causes you to throw hooks in your cast) is to either use a side-arm cast, or angle your body at about 60 degrees to the target so you can move your head to watch the back cast extend without moving your shoulders. Snip                        Hope this helps,                                Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

– Bill Curry Tight Lines Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia, Canada http://www.tightlines.ns.ca

Response:

This is one of the best explanations/techniques I have heard for identifying this problem!!!  A couple years ago I was throwing tailing loop after tailing loop.  Since it was the end of the day and I had gotten up at 4:00am I just figured I was tired and decided to call it a day.  Just then (of course) a big brown noisily slurped a hopper and I decided on "just a couple more casts". I promptly threw a tailing loop AND tangled in an overhanging branch.  I snapped off the leader.  When preparing to tie on a new one I noticed a crack in the flyline about 2 or 3" up from the leader.  I trimmed the line, tied on a new leader and proceeded to make several casts that were better than most I had thrown all afternoon.  Now I have a technique for identifying the problem rather than lucking out.  Thanks! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated. Hi Dana, Before you start worrying about your casting technique, take a quick look at the junction of the leader to the fly line.  If it is cracked so that it hinges instead of transferring energy smoothly, no amount of casting modification will make it work. Perfectly executed casts with this mechanical problem will throw tailing loops. If you’re not sure whether or not the junction causes a hinge, here’s a simple test: 1.  Hold the fly line in one hand and the leader in the other with the junction in the middle and about 6" of material on each side of it. 2.  Push your hands together until they are about 6" apart.  This should form an upside down "U"  in the line. 3.  Raise one hand while lowering the other.  This will roll the junction over the upside down "U" in the line. 4.  If it rolls over smoothly then your casting technique is the problem. If one side collapses instead of rolling over, then you have a mechanical "hinging" problem.  If you use too fine of a diameter monofilament for the butt section of your leader, that will cause hinging on the leader side – If you use too heavy of a diameter mono for the butt section it will cause the fly line to collapse.  Any crack that is serious enough to cause casting problems becomes immediately apparent with this test.  In any case the answer is to cut off the old junction and replace it with one of the right size.  You will often have to cut off a few inches of the fly line if it’s badly cracked. I’ll address some casting options in another post.                            Hope this helps,                                      Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

Dan, I have to say that your recent series of posts has been one of the most helpful things I have ever seen in this newsgroup. I’m sure a lot of us have learned from it, even those of us who have been fishing for a while (I can still tail the odd loop just fine after twenty years with a fly rod). We might even have to stop bitching about Orivs for a while… (-: Andrew Andrew N. Herd Associate Editor, Waterlog Magazine http://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: If the timing is bad, the line drops well below the plane on the forward cast before you bring it forward and it can hit the line.  Practicing your casting at times other than just when you’re fishing can go a long way to develop the sense of timing needed to correct this.  A practical exercise to allow you to see the cast without swiveling your shoulders (swiveling shoulders causes you to throw hooks in your cast) is to either use a side-arm cast, or angle your body at about 60 degrees to the target so you can move your head to watch the back cast extend without moving your shoulders.

Snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –                        Hope this helps,                                Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

Hi Dana, It sounds like the old trailing loop syndrome.  We all start off with it as a throw back to the spinning rod. Your book is correct. I’ve taught many people how to cast and they all go through this problem.  Most seem to correct the problem once they’ve heard the problem explained in a way that makes sense to them. So I’ll explain it in a different way. Hold your rod out directly straight from you and push down. Notice the Tip of the rod goes up before it goes down with the rest of the rod. When you start a cast the same thing happens. If you apply too much power too soon the rod tip goes down before it goes forward. The line simply follows along going down before it comes up. Sometimes catching itself on the way back up. Any power applied before the tip of the rod reaches the 12:00 position will cause the rod tip to go down before forward. Therefore the majority of power must be applied after the tip of the rod has past the butt. Good Luck — William Endicott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated. Thanks, Dana

Response:

Something that improved my casting was to convince myself there was no difference between the back and forward cast.  I started false casting 30′ of line and slowly rotated while keeping the line going in the same direction until I was facing what was my back cast.  When I could rotate 360 degrees under the cast and keep it going smoothly with tight loops and not shock the line or have tailing loops, my attitude toward the mechanics of casting changed and my casting improved. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated. Thanks, Dana

Response:

writes: If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated.

Hi Dana, Before you start worrying about your casting technique, take a quick look at the junction of the leader to the fly line.  If it is cracked so that it hinges instead of transferring energy smoothly, no amount of casting modification will make it work. Perfectly executed casts with this mechanical problem will throw tailing loops. If you’re not sure whether or not the junction causes a hinge, here’s a simple test: 1.  Hold the fly line in one hand and the leader in the other with the junction in the middle and about 6" of material on each side of it. 2.  Push your hands together until they are about 6" apart.  This should form an upside down "U"  in the line. 3.  Raise one hand while lowering the other.  This will roll the junction over the upside down "U" in the line. 4.  If it rolls over smoothly then your casting technique is the problem.  If one side collapses instead of rolling over, then you have a mechanical "hinging" problem.  If you use too fine of a diameter monofilament for the butt section of your leader, that will cause hinging on the leader side – If you use too heavy of a diameter mono for the butt section it will cause the fly line to collapse.  Any crack that is serious enough to cause casting problems becomes immediately apparent with this test.  In any case the answer is to cut off the old junction and replace it with one of the right size.  You will often have to cut off a few inches of the fly line if it’s badly cracked. I’ll address some casting options in another post.                             Hope this helps,                                       Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

writes: If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated.

Besides the mechanical problems addressed in another post, your casting technique can certainly cause this problem. The two most common causes are bad timing, and the afore-mentioned jerky accelleration.  If the timing is bad, the line drops well below the plane on the forward cast before you bring it forward and it can hit the line.  Practicing your casting at times other than just when you’re fishing can go a long way to develop the sense of timing needed to correct this.  A practical exercise to allow you to see the cast without swiveling your shoulders (swiveling shoulders causes you to throw hooks in your cast) is to either use a side-arm cast, or angle your body at about 60 degrees to the target so you can move your head to watch the back cast extend without moving your shoulders.   For the side-arm cast, lay the rod out directly in front of you with the reel pointed in the direction of the target (not pointed down at the ground *very important*).  Use a slicing motion, not a scooping motion to make the cast while keeping your shoulders perfectly still.  You can watch the loop travel in both directions and you can easily see the width of the casting arc you’re using.  By changing the width of this casting arc you can widen or tighten your loops.  *Dont wait for the line to straighten out entirely* before you start your forward cast.  It takes a split second reaction time to initiate the forward cast and if you wait until it straightens out entirely it will fall considerably and bleed off energy before you actually start your forward cast. Reaction time is different for everyone and you have to find out just when is right by trial and error.  For starters pick a spot a foot or two back from the end of the fly line, and when the unrolling loop reaches that point, start your forward cast.  Adjust this distance farther back from the end of the fly line or closer to it as needed.  When you hit it "spot on" the fly will just sort of stop for a split second in mid-air.  That’s perfect.  The good news is that it doesn’t have to be perfect, but the closer you can get to it the more efficient your casting will be. Bad accelleration is a more common problem with tailing loops and it becomes particularly noticeable when making longer casts or when casting in windy conditions.  The tendency is to put a lot more force into the rod and that usually results in jerking it forward.  This sudden jerk causes the rod to load (flex) suddenly and then unload (straighten) slightly because less energy is used to finish the stroke than start it.  This causes the rod tip to travel in a concave or U shape and will always throw a tailing loop.   Extra power can be added to a casting stroke, but it must be at the very end – "Accellerate to a Stop".  If this is the problem, try stopping the rod more suddenly at the end of the stroke instead of hitting it harder at the start. Another option that will result in the same thing is to start the beginning of your cast by pulling on the rod, not jerking it.  With proper accelleration and the right casting arc, your rod tip will travel in a straight line "—-" from start through the flexing and to the finish which will throw a tight efficient loop.                         Hope this helps,                                 Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

If anyone can help me I could really use some advice (and I really don’t want to hear anything about my socks not matching my shoes).  I consider myself an intermediate fly caster, but I occassionally will get a closing loop where the leader will actually wrap itself around the loop.  I read in a book that it can be caused by accelerating into the foreward cast too soon and not smoothly accelerating. Does anyone else have some advice? All opinions are appreciated. Thanks, Dana

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I actually saw and held a size 32 Royal Coachman tied by Lee Wulff…quite a few years ago, asit happens. They did exist at some point. Herters Professional Fly Tying book stated that the small fly was tied by Miss Helene Shaw on Jan 21, 1939. It was tied on a specially made English hook size forty. The was pattern was a Royal Coachman. I don’t know if you can believe this source. Herter’s books are very interesting to read. There is alot of good information in them but you really have to sift through them. According to him, he originated almost every fly pattern & designed most everything used for tying & fly fishing. Fun books from a real character! Willi

My original queries on seeing the request for where to buy these was "What length are these hooks, what gape are they, are they up eyed down eyed or straight eyed? I don’t believe they are any more than a renumbered small hook given the number to massage the egos of fly tiers.  A bit like American dress sizes are given smaller numbers than they get in England. richard

Response:

I actually saw and held a size 32 Royal Coachman tied by Lee Wulff…quite a few years ago, asit happens. They did exist at some point.

Any major compromises in construction details ?…I mean… that band of peacock/floss/peacock alone would be wider than the shank length, wouldn’t it ? Curious…thanks… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I actually saw and held a size 32 Royal Coachman tied by Lee Wulff…quite a few years ago, asit happens. They did exist at some point. Just checking if anyone out there can help me find some size 32 hooks. Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook. Anglerboy

And what material was used for the leader and how many fish did he catch with these flies? richard

Response:

I actually saw and held a size 32 Royal Coachman tied by Lee Wulff…quite a few years ago, asit happens. They did exist at some point.

Herters Professional Fly Tying book stated that the small fly was tied by Miss Helene Shaw on Jan 21, 1939. It was tied on a specially made English hook size forty. The was pattern was a Royal Coachman. I don’t know if you can believe this source. Herter’s books are very interesting to read. There is alot of good information in them but you really have to sift through them. According to him, he originated almost every fly pattern & designed most everything used for tying & fly fishing. Fun books from a real character! Willi

Response:

I actually saw and held a size 32 Royal Coachman tied by Lee Wulff…quite a few years ago, asit happens. They did exist at some point. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just checking if anyone out there can help me find some size 32 hooks. Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook. Anglerboy

Response:

Just checking if anyone out there can help me find some size 32 hooks. Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook. Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me.

FWIW. Some years ago I read in the "Guiness book of records", the smallest fly ever tyed on a hook was a dry "Royal Coachman" size 30+ something back in the thirties by a lady. ( Don’t recall her name)  Jocke

Response:

I have some size #32 hooks (sorry, personal inventory only). I can not locate my source but they are labeled: Mustad M277. Mustad’s web site may be of further assistance. Good luck all! Mike.

Response:

Somewhere down from #20 you have to tie a snell because there is no eye, just a little nub.

I just returned from a old tackle shop, and while I was there making my purchase of flies, I checked out the hooks.  The smallest I could find there was a size #28, it had a eye too.  I was talking to a dealer at a shop  few weeks ago, and he claimed there is a size #32 still around and this does not have a eye, just a little "nub" as you have stated…. –Randy Junk e-mail, solicitation, sales, products and services gladly accepted at $500.00 per mailing and billed directly to your ISP.

Response:

And I’ve seen ‘em, too. Some rodbuilders now use them to lay into the epoxy coat on the guide wraps. Very decorative, but can’t imagine the size tippet you’d need to put through the eye.

Ahh now I understand.  These hooks are made by Letraset….! richard

Response:

Somewhere down from #20 you have to tie a snell because there is no eye, just a little nub. And I’ve seen ‘em, too. Some rodbuilders now use them to lay into the epoxy coat on the guide wraps. Very decorative, but can’t imagine the size tippet you’d need to put through the eye.

 The initial question is…why so small a HOOK?  Once you get to the level of stability with 8x…#22_hook?, why don’t you just tie the smaller pattern on the #22?  Once you get to #22..the hooking % will probably drop…..? steve

Response:

And I’ve seen ‘em, too. Some rodbuilders now use them to lay into the epoxy coat on the guide wraps. Very decorative, but can’t imagine the size tippet you’d need to put through the eye.

Response:

Somewhere down from #20 you have to tie a snell because there is no eye, just a little nub. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And I’ve seen ‘em, too. Some rodbuilders now use them to lay into the epoxy coat on the guide wraps. Very decorative, but can’t imagine the size tippet you’d need to put through the eye.

Response:

Go on then tell us what is a size #32 hook when it’s at home? What length is it or a size #30 for that matter? What gape? Is there an eye? Is it ringed straight?  Or turned up or down?

Some European hooks for coarse fishing are as small as a 30 or 32 on Mustad scale.  They are usually made with a spade end, to be whipped directly to nylon.  These seem different from the gold up-eyed hooks for fly tyers sold briefly in N.America as size 30 or 32 in the 1970s. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

I watched two fellows tie #30s by lanternlight just a couple of weekends ago beside the West Branch of the Ausable in NY. Mind you, I didn’t see anyone actually _fish_ with ‘em!

Go on then tell us what is a size #32 hook when it’s at home? What length is it or a size #30 for that matter? What gape? Is there an eye? Is it ringed straight?  Or turned up or down? Or are these hooks numbered in a reverse of the practice used in describing dress sizes in America?  A size 12 dress in America would be called a size 18 in England to flatter the buyer. Is there a fawning practice here of certain crafty hook suppliers to massage the egos of fly tyers and thus ensure some extra sales? richard

Response:

0]

: Just checking if anyone out there can help me find some size 32 hooks. : Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you : might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook. : Anglerboy : — : Trout fear me, : Women want me. Aren’t they controlled by the EPA these days as suspected carcinogens as are other fine dusts like asbestos and silica? Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (415)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

Response:

Just checking if anyone out there can help me find some size 32 hooks. Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook. The smallest hook I ever seen was a #28, and I cannot imagine something smaller. Personnally I will not fish with something smaller than 18 or 20.

I watched two fellows tie #30s by lanternlight just a couple of weekends ago beside the West Branch of the Ausable in NY. Mind you, I didn’t see anyone actually _fish_ with ‘em! — Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Disclaimer: Over 30 and born in Fredericton, NB

Response:

   From my experiences, there are some differences between companies as to sizes of hooks. I have seen no. 20 hooks from Veniard that compared to no 18 hooks from Partridge.

This is true; the standards vary.  Regarding #32’s, I think there is a photograph in Robert Traver’s _Anatomy of a Fisherman_ which shows the #32 hooks which John Voelker/Robert Traver used. Woods Hole, MA   USA

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just checking if anyone out there can help me find some size 32 hooks. Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook. Anglerboy The smallest hook I ever seen was a #28, and I cannot imagine something smaller. Personnally I will not fish with something smaller than 18 or 20. By the way, does anyone know what unit of measure these hook numbers use? Sounds like a fraction of something, as the greater the number, the smaller the hook, but not being familiar with UK/US units of measure, I’m missing the starting point. We adopted the same numbers in France.

        From my experiences, there are some differences between companies as to sizes of hooks. I have seen no. 20 hooks from Veniard that compared to no 18 hooks from Partridge.

Response:

Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you

might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook. Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me. what do you do when the fish are only selectively rising to #32 bugs? why you quit, sit and watch the fish rise, or just enjoy being outside, or you could drink a few beers. chris

Response:

Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook.

A friend of mine gave a box of 100 size 32 hooks to me around 1973.  Since I have only a dozen or so left and not in the original box I cannot pass along any additional manufacturer info other than to discrbe them as gold with up-turned eyes.  I tied extremely small midges which worked quite well at producing takes on the Monocacy and Little Lehigh in eastern PA. However, as suggested, hooking fish was tough. I have never seen commercially advertized hooks smaller than 28 aside from these which were available only for a year or two back in the mid 1970s.  ..No, the few I have left are not for sale. Dennis

Response:

Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook.

Size 32 hooks are sold in Europe.  They are made with spade ends, for you to whip on to a tippet, or sold snelled. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Just checking if anyone out there can help me find some size 32 hooks. Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook. Anglerboy

The smallest hook I ever seen was a #28, and I cannot imagine something smaller. Personnally I will not fish with something smaller than 18 or 20. By the way, does anyone know what unit of measure these hook numbers use? Sounds like a fraction of something, as the greater the number, the smaller the hook, but not being familiar with UK/US units of measure, I’m missing the starting point. We adopted the same numbers in France.

Response:

Just checking if anyone out there can help me find some size 32 hooks.

Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook. Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me.

Response:

Size 32 hooks are a figment of your imagination, as are any fish you might hook with one.  The eye would be bigger than the hook.

Darn tootin’. I have mustad 94842 hollow points down to a size 28 and with my aging eyesight I can barely see the eye (let alone thread anything through it). The hole appears to be smaller than the diameter of a human hair and you can only just see light through it. David E. Malone All opinions expressed are my own.

Response:

Just checking if anyone out there can help me find some size 32 hooks. Will be glad to pay or trade for any amount.  Gunner

Response:

Question:

I am in the market for a new pair of float tube fins to replace the ones I currently use – which are Caddis fins. The new fins I am interested in buying are something called Force Fin float tube fins. They are advertised as being 40 – 60 percent more efficient than the average float tube fins on the market today. Here are some of my questions: 1. Has anyone used Force Fin float tube fins and found them better than the ones they previously used. 2. Does anyone knows how many models they have. 3. Do they (Force Fin) have a web site? Don. "May the fish be with you"

Response:

I am in the market for a new pair of float tube fins to replace the ones I currently use – which are Caddis fins. The new fins I am interested in buying are something called Force Fin float tube fins. They are advertised as being 40 – 60 percent more efficient than the average float tube fins on the market today. Here are some of my questions: 1. Has anyone used Force Fin float tube fins and found them better than the ones they previously used.

Force fins are great if you have to hike in with them.  They are very light, and provide reasonable propulsion.   For most of my tubing, however, I use a longer, stiff scuba fin that gives me more power. 2. Does anyone knows how many models they have.

I think they have two, one fits all sizes, one comes in S, M. L. XL, etc. 3. Do they (Force Fin) have a web site?   Don’t know?

If you decide to buy them, I can put you in touch with someone who sells Force Fin cosmetic blems for a good price compared to full retail. John Woodling Sacramento, CA

Response:

I’ve been using mine for three or four years and have no complaints. I do believe they are a little more powerful than my previous standard fins, and they are a little bit easier to "walk" in. Hope this helps! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in the market for a new pair of float tube fins to replace the ones I currently use – which are Caddis fins. The new fins I am interested in buying are something called Force Fin float tube fins. They are advertised as being 40 – 60 percent more efficient than the average float tube fins on the market today. Here are some of my questions: 1. Has anyone used Force Fin float tube fins and found them better than the ones they previously used. 2. Does anyone knows how many models they have. 3. Do they (Force Fin) have a web site? Don. "May the fish be with you"

Response:

Personally, if you are driving to the lake, or the walk is short, forget about anything but SCUBA PRO Jet fins.  With these large rubber fins you can tube for hours and hours and never tire.  Your maneuverablilty is unbelievable and best of all you can tube faster than most powerboats out there!!!

Response:

Hi Donald: I don’t know if it really matters, but Force Fins are scuba fins.   They’re not super big hits in the diving community though.  It’s either because they don’t work as well as regular fins or because they look plain weird. Either way, I use regular, Scuba Pro-like fins for both diving and tubing.

<snip The thing is – I don’t want to pay $100+ for a pair of Force Fin fins if it does not perform at least as good as a pair of scuba fins.

<snip

Response:

You may be right, I beginning to think that scuba fins are better than the Caddis fins, Flip fins, Force Fin fins, or any of the short float tube fins on the market today. One of the reasons I wanted to get a new pair of float tube fins is to be able to keep up with my friends who are using scuba type fins to propel themselves. But at the same time, I wanted to be able to wear my wading boots with my fins, something that Force Fin fins will allow me to do. I was also hoping that the Force Fin fins will at least allow me to have the same thrusting power as a good pair of scuba fins. But by some of the responses I have been getting from folks here, it seems that a good pair of scuba fins may be more superior to a pair of Force Fin fins when it comes to propelling one’s float tube on the water. The thing is – I don’t want to pay $100+ for a pair of Force Fin fins if it does not perform at least as good as a pair of scuba fins. On large lakes, one does not want to expend a lot of extra energy to propel a float tube after a 3+ hour hike to get to a high mountain lake. Don. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, if you are driving to the lake, or the walk is short, forget about anything but SCUBA PRO Jet fins.  With these large rubber fins you can tube for hours and hours and never tire.  Your maneuverablilty is unbelievable and best of all you can tube faster than most powerboats out there!!!

Response:

Look for fins that: 1- Cover your heel so you don’t chafe holes in your wet suit and don’t fill up easily with mud and sand when slogging around in the shallows. You can also wear booties to protect waders but it’s one more thing to buy, lug around and lose. 2- FLOAT. Diving fins are usually slightly negatively bouyant. Float tube fins do get scrubbed off when doing the heavy weed thing. Use tethers if your fins don’t float. 3- Flex rather easily. Diving fins are propelled by a slightly bent leg with most of the energy arising from the thigh, buttock and lower back. A float tube fin is propelled by the quads and a kick from the foot. Your legs will easily tire and your foot can cramp after heavy duty kicking with a long bladed, stiff dive fin. A flexy fin will sacrifice power up front but you’ll more than make up for it in the long run.    -Ralph – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You may be right, I beginning to think that scuba fins are better than the Caddis fins, Flip fins, Force Fin fins, or any of the short float tube fins on the market today. One of the reasons I wanted to get a new pair of float tube fins is to be able to keep up with my friends who are using scuba type fins to propel themselves. But at the same time, I wanted to be able to wear my wading boots with my fins, something that Force Fin fins will allow me to do. I was also hoping that the Force Fin fins will at least allow me to have the same thrusting power as a good pair of scuba fins. But by some of the responses I have been getting from folks here, it seems that a good pair of scuba fins may be more superior to a pair of Force Fin fins when it comes to propelling one’s float tube on the water. The thing is – I don’t want to pay $100+ for a pair of Force Fin fins if it does not perform at least as good as a pair of scuba fins. On large lakes, one does not want to expend a lot of extra energy to propel a float tube after a 3+ hour hike to get to a high mountain lake. Don. Personally, if you are driving to the lake, or the walk is short, forget about anything but SCUBA PRO Jet fins.  With these large rubber fins you can tube for hours and hours and never tire.  Your maneuverablilty is unbelievable and best of all you can tube faster than most powerboats out there!!!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You may be right, I beginning to think that scuba fins are better than the Caddis fins, Flip fins, Force Fin fins, or any of the short float tube fins on the market today. One of the reasons I wanted to get a new pair of float tube fins is to be able to keep up with my friends who are using scuba type fins to propel themselves. But at the same time, I wanted to be able to wear my wading boots with my fins, something that Force Fin fins will allow me to do. I was also hoping that the Force Fin fins will at least allow me to have the same thrusting power as a good pair of scuba fins. But by some of the responses I have been getting from folks here, it seems that a good pair of scuba fins may be more superior to a pair of Force Fin fins when it comes to propelling one’s float tube on the water. The thing is – I don’t want to pay $100+ for a pair of Force Fin fins if it does not perform at least as good as a pair of scuba fins. On large lakes, one does not want to expend a lot of extra energy to propel a float tube after a 3+ hour hike to get to a high mountain lake. Don. Personally, if you are driving to the lake, or the walk is short, forget about anything but SCUBA PRO Jet fins.  With these large rubber fins you can tube for hours and hours and never tire.  Your maneuverablilty is unbelievable and best of all you can tube faster than most powerboats out there!!!

As far as the wading bots go, I use scuba fins and a pair of good ol’ Converse tennies for boots, and they work great.  I can outrace my buddy in his force fins quite handily.  He gets into the tube and the water more easily, however.

Response:

Good points all Ralph, but are you familiar with the "Jet Fin"?  It is quite flexible though it does not cover your heel.  By the way, how’s the situation at Martis?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am in the market for a new pair of float tube fins to replace the ones I currently use – which are Caddis fins. The new fins I am interested in buying are something called Force Fin float tube fins. They are advertised as being 40 – 60 percent more efficient than the average float tube fins on the market today. Here are some of my questions: 1. Has anyone used Force Fin float tube fins and found them better than the ones they previously used. 2. Does anyone knows how many models they have. 3. Do they (Force Fin) have a web site? Don. "May the fish be with you"

I know that Force Fins are very popular in northern California with the float-tubers. They make lots of models, but the fly shops usually carry the original model and the Adjustable. The originals come in sizes small, medium, medium/large, large, extra large and xx-large. The Adjustable come in one size and will fit over a boot or almost anything. The original sells for $85 to $99 and the Adjustable sells for $119 to $135. We sell the Caddis to people that are not traveling great distances in a day of fishing. They don’t float, so get some teethers. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

0] : I am in the market for a new pair of float tube fins to replace : the ones I currently use – which are Caddis fins. The new fins I : am interested in buying are something called Force Fin float tube : fins. They are advertised as being 40 – 60 percent more : efficient than the average float tube fins on the market today. : : Here are some of my questions: : : 1. Has anyone used Force Fin float tube fins and found them better : than the ones they previously used. : : 2. Does anyone knows how many models they have. : : 3. Do they (Force Fin) have a web site? : : Don. "May the fish be with you" If you would like some entertainment, try posting this question in rec.scuba and follow the resulting thread/holy-war. Mike — Michael McGuire                     Hewlett Packard Laboratories Phone: (415)-857-5491               Palo Alto, CA 94303-0971

Response:

Question:

Hi All, This most certainly has been discussed before, so forgive any repetition. I currently have a pair of rubber coated canvas waders. Eventually these will fail and need replacement…at least that’s what I tell my wife . So far they have held up through two seasons, but you never know…. Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)? Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other? What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! ) Thanks in advance, –John        John Carney          Fly Fisher & Parrot Head

Response:

Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! )

Hell in GA I’d skip the neoprene and go for the Gortex.  I would think that the heat would be more of a problem than the cold.  5mm are very very warm, Xmas of 95, I was in a river with 6" of ice and was comfortable.  They’d probably cook you in Dixie!!! jg

Response:

Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)?

I’ve been using 3mm Simms neoprenes for several years now.  They have remained warm and flexible.  Whatever brand you buy, spend a little more than you can afford. Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other?

Pinholes don’t seem to be the main problem, rather leaks at seams, especially when you do a lot of tubing in them. What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor.

3mm keep me good and warm, but early in the season I do wear some Thermax bibs.  During warm season a pair of light thermal pants or silks will help keep you from getting too clammy from sweat.  I got the thinner neoprenes because I figure I can always add extra insulation when it’s cold, but you can’t reduce the insulation of a 5mm wader when it’s hot. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! )

Even in high summer tubing gets cold, because all the heat eventually gets leeched away, no matter what you’re wearing.  I find that I can last about 3-4 hours at a stretch in 50 degree water before I have to get out and warm up and take a leak.  Only problem I’ve had with neoprenes in my tube is some slight leaking as the seams stretch because I sit in the tube, and the slight chaffing on the upper thigh where the neoprene rubs against the material of the tube. Anglerboy

Response:

This most certainly has been discussed before, so forgive any repetition. I currently have a pair of rubber coated canvas waders. Eventually these will fail and need replacement…at least that’s what I tell my wife . So far they have held up through two seasons, but you never know…. Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)? Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other? What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! )

Hi John, The 3 mil waders will do everything you want them to down to water temperatures of ~42.  Usually below 42 degrees I have to put some mid weight synthetic longs on underneath them.  Above that I use the lightweight synthetic longs to keep any moisture off my skin and keep it between my longs and the waders.  The 3 mil neoprenes will give you the flexibility  you want and the comfort while float tubing.  Take a llok at the Orvis Hi-back 3mil neoprenes ($225) or the bare bones version the Clearwater neoprenes ($98). If it is usually hot most of the time you are fishing, you should check out the breathable waders.  Orvis makes two models.  The No-Sweat wader for $305 which feature a brushed micro-fiber outer fabric, knee pads, and a floating heel (easier to fit various shoe sizes)on the neoprene foot.  They just came out this year with the Clearwater No-Sweat waders for $165.  They are made out of a tightly woven nylon outer fabric, have the standard type of neoprene foot and no knee pads.  Not quite as durable as the premium No-Sweats, but covered with the same guarantee (4 years) and about 1/2 the price of other breathable waders.  Keep in mind that the breathable waders offer no insulation of their own and they don’t stretch.  As long as you layer accordingly underneath for colder weather they are fine, and nothing is more comfortable on a hot day.                          Hope this helps,                                  Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi All, This most certainly has been discussed before, so forgive any repetition. I currently have a pair of rubber coated canvas waders. Eventually these will fail and need replacement…at least that’s what I tell my wife . So far they have held up through two seasons, but you never know…. Does anyone have experience with 5mm vs 3mm neoprene waders? Specifically, what is the durability difference between the two (if any)? Is one more prone to pinhole leaks than the other? What about heat retention? Fishing here in Georgia, we have a much longer warm season than say, Montana, so insulation is not as big a factor. What about fishing from a float tube..wouldn’t the neoprene be better than the canvas? (looking for purchase justification here!! ) Thanks in advance, –John       John Carney         Fly Fisher & Parrot Head

Hi John, The 3mm neoprene is the standard in the industry with 5mm being more durable, warmer and less flexible. For serious float-tubers, 5mm will hold up longer. Gor-Tex is coming on very strong, as this will be the year of the breathable Gor-Tex wader. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

I have been fishing with Orvis Clearwater Gortex waders this year in Minnesota.  Yesterday I went out and it was 15 degrees.  I wore my waders with fleece pants and long underwear.  It was toasty.  In the summer I know they will be a thosand times more comfortable than the 2mm neoprenes I had before. Mike H

Response:

To this thread specifically. I have used Body Glove 5mm’s for the last 8 years. Got some cheap Hodgman 3mm’s for Christmas.   Wished I’d of had the 5mm’s on saturday.  Toes got cold for the first time in 8 years.  They were dry, but cold. Summer heat, the 3s’ll be a godsend. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Question:

I am an avid flyfisherman, both streams and lakes (mostly lakes). I am 17 years old and try to go fishing as much as possible.  What I wanted to know is if there are any decent dry damselfly patterns out there.  I have seen a few with extended deer hair bodies, polypropylene wings, and parachute hackles, but I also wanted to know if there where any other patterns for this insect.  I have not yet seen any dry dragonfly patterns, so I want to know about them as well.  Although I personally don’t prefer dry fly fishing on stillwaters but, it can be very succesful at times. Scott Laliberte . —    ___       __  ____    ___  /    (__/ /    /   /      |  Student of Computing Science, SFU

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am an avid flyfisherman, both streams and lakes (mostly lakes). I am 17 years old and try to go fishing as much as possible.  What I wanted to know is if there are any decent dry damselfly patterns out there.  I have seen a few with extended deer hair bodies, polypropylene wings, and parachute hackles, but I also wanted to know if there where any other patterns for this insect.  I have not yet seen any dry dragonfly patterns, so I want to know about them as well.  Although I personally don’t prefer dry fly fishing on stillwaters but, it can be very succesful at times. Scott Laliberte . —    ___       __  ____    ___  /    (__/ /    /   /      |  Student of Computing Science, SFU

I’ve been told that the reason for the lack of dragon fly dry imitations is because the fish only take them in mid flight, not sitting on the water (when is the last time you saw a dragon sitting on the water?).  With damsels, I tie an extended deer hair parachute adams in both blue (for the female) and tan (for the male), and have gotten limited success.  My most interesting catch was when a natural mounted my dry and tried to copulate with it in mid cast!  I’ve had my best luck fishing waters laden with damsels using a yellow marabou nymph.  Basically, it looks like a long AP, but tied with palmered marabou for a body instead of dubbing.  Good luck. . Lenny Bloksberg . .

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Philippe Laliberte) writes: any dry damsel patterns?

Look in the book "Tying Dry Flies"  by R. Kaufmann. Has a  "braided butt damsel" using braided leader butt for the extended body. These flies are also available in the Kaufmann catalog. I have an example of this fly in front of me now and it is a fine rendition. After hatching, adult damsels are often blown onto the water where the trout feast on them.

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I am an avid flyfisherman, both streams and lakes (mostly lakes). I am 17 years old and try to go fishing as much as possible.  What I wanted to know is if there are any decent dry damselfly patterns out there.  I have seen a few with extended deer hair bodies, polypropylene wings, and parachute hackles, but I also wanted to know if there where any other patterns for this insect.  I have not yet seen any dry dragonfly patterns, so I want to know about them as well.  Although I personally don’t prefer dry fly fishing on stillwaters but, it can be very succesful at times.

  The best pattern I’ve found is the Borger damsel which has a body made of braided leader material which you dye with pantone markers (blue or brown & black).  Tie this on the hook then tie on a post of crystal flash (blue or brown) then wind a big grizzly hackle on this post papachute style.  Now dub on a short body and eyes if you want them then pull the hackle to the back so it splays 180 deg. in the rear, pull down the post and tie it off like a nymph wing case.     You can’t tell this thing from a real bug on the water and I’ve had males try and mate with my blue imitations.   Tim

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Philippe Laliberte) writes:

<I am an avid flyfisherman, both streams and lakes (mostly lakes). I am 17 years old and try to go fishing as much as possible.  What I wanted to know is if there are any decent dry damselfly patterns out there. Curtis: Have been fly fishing for trout and bass for 20 years. I think I’ve seen some big fish hit damselfly nymphs, but cannot confirm it. I know I have never observed a big fish rise for a damselfly dry. I’ve tied several different patterns myself and have copied Dave Whitlock and R. Kaufmann patterns without success. Personally, I think it is a waste of time to focus on damselfly dry patterns. If anyone disagrees, please let me know. I’d appreciate insights based on observations. Thanks…Bob Elliott. Rochester, NY

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Last summer I landed 2 22"+ trout on adult damsels and hooked 2 other fish that easily went 26" on them too,  loosing one when my reel fell apart after all my line and 1/2 my backing was gone.  Big fish gulp damsels at the right time and they do work. Tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Curtis: Have been fly fishing for trout and bass for 20 years. I think I’ve seen some big fish hit damselfly nymphs, but cannot confirm it. I know I have never observed a big fish rise for a damselfly dry. I’ve tied several different patterns myself and have copied Dave Whitlock and R. Kaufmann patterns without success. Personally, I think it is a waste of time to focus on damselfly dry patterns. If anyone disagrees, please let me know. I’d appreciate insights based on observations. Thanks…Bob Elliott. Rochester, NY

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Curtis: Have been fly fishing for trout and bass for 20 years. I think I’ve seen some big fish hit damselfly nymphs, but cannot confirm it. I know I have never observed a big fish rise for a damselfly dry. I’ve tied several different patterns myself and have copied Dave Whitlock and R. Kaufmann patterns without success. Personally, I think it is a waste of time to focus on damselfly dry patterns. If anyone disagrees, please let me know. I’d appreciate insights based on observations. Thanks…Bob Elliott. Rochester, NY

Bob, I have seen fish jump out of the water a good foot for a damselfly sitting on some grass.   This happened at a lake near Cody Wyoming.  These trout would swim all around you in about 1 to 3 ft. of water.  They would sit and eye the damselfly for a second or two and then spring out of the water for the insect.  It was really quite interesting watching this fish do this and of course I did not have any damselfly patterns with me. Tim Trujillo

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What I wanted to know is if there are any decent dry damselfly patterns out there. Curtis: Have been fly fishing for trout and bass for 20 years. I think I’ve seen some big fish hit damselfly nymphs, but cannot confirm it. I know I have

I cannot compete with you regarding years fished, but I have to disagree. patterns without success. Personally, I think it is a waste of time to focus on damselfly dry patterns. If anyone disagrees, please let me know. I’d appreciate insights based on observations. Thanks…Bob Elliott.

If you would go to any Western lake in British Columbia or Alberta, damselflies are your "bread and butter" flies.  Especially on trophy lakes in BC.  Many of times, especially on widy days that’s the only fly the big trout (20" plus) will take.  It’s quite nice watching these about 1 inch long, slender creatures wiggle and struggle on their journey just to be taken with a VERY AGGRESSIVE splash. Not too complicated to tie, one of the best patterns is from G. Borger’s Designing Trout Flies.  The only modification I’ve made is that I’m using seal in a dubbing loop instead of recommended hackle.  Of course, the fly has to have an action, so tying it on a dry fly hook is better than nymph hook (the new Accupoint from Mustad is just great!).  Fish it just on or couple inches below the surface with jerky, short strips. Respectfully J.K.

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