Question:

(shit, gotta teach these friggin’ yankees EVERYTHING!)

    tell me about it.  it’s been my personal burden for decades. your friend in the old north state wayno

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Where are these photo essays posted at? Tim Apple

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Where are these photo essays posted at? Tim Apple

Here’s the link to the page on Peter’s site…some nice water on display. http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/strmr-13.html Cheers, Bill

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Hmm…. Very nice, Peter. otoh, remind me never to take you to any of my favorite New Hampshire brookie ponds ‘lessen you leave your shootin’ iron at home!

and why not?  :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Speakin’ of brookie ponds, I hit two of the best on a sparkling White Mountain Fall day, one pond in the morning ’til lunch, the other after lunch ’til dark. Took three of my Winstons in the canoe, a 9/3 with a tiny white parachute midge on 7x, a 9/5 with a damselfly on 5x, and another 9/5 with a Type 6 uniform sinker tipped with a #10 Silverside. I was loaded for bear. The sky was blue, the sun was hot…and the wind was beginning to rise. Some nasty tropical weather is apparently coming up here to die and fighting that wind taxed the hell out of my trollin’ motor battery, not to mention making dry fly fishing more challenging at times. But I was determined to fish the three weight at least once this year so I set out, working along the windward bank, and had a ball. A 14" cold water brookie on this rod feels like a monster and before the first lap of the pond I was lucky enough to catch a couple of biguns to go with as many shorts. Kept working a dry fly along the shore line on a second lap catching the odd fish, ’til the rising wind pushed me into the clutches of The Dark Side and I took to trolling the deep middle with the supersinker. In short order – three passes over the really deep spot in the pond – I had caught a matched pair of slabby females and one precocious male short that was colored up like he meant business *this* year…

Did you set up the canoe of the windward side of the lake and let the wind blow you across?  Years ago, I watched a TV spot with two guys in Quebec in a wooden boat that was a cross between a canoe and a row boat.  There was a wicker chair at each end and the guys were stretched out, fly rods over the side, letting the wind push them across.  Looked mighty peaceful way to fish. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Right about noon, feeling nicely toasted by rays, wind, and whatever, I pulled out and headed over to my first favorite little brookie pond and had lunch while the battery charged up. The wind had risen well beyond the 3 weight so I was down to the dry and wet fives. All afternoon I was looking for that "just barely legal" fish to boink and consume In The Name Of Tim. I fished the hell out of that pond with dry fly and streamer until near dark battling wind and white caps and wishing I had a dagger board clamped up alongside the bow. I did catch a half dozen fish before dark, but all were either undersized or honestly just too big – this close to spawning season I just can’t whack a big ol’ cow brookie or her old man (that’s *my* principle and I won’t be moved by some confused BassMaster wannabee out in Colorado . Still, felt like fish for dinner, so at dark as I drove back to my cabin I threw a reach cast into the little grocery in beautiful downtown Franconia and pulled out some Kipper snacks, smoked oysters, real cheddar cheese, and some gnarly bread that the local hippy bakery up here supplies to the store. And some *excellent*  Tuckerman Pale Ale, brewed by Kirsten and Nik at Tuckerman Brewing Company in Conway. www.tuckermanbrewing.com Just one of the *many* New England brews that would kick that pommy Sleeman’s ass back to Saskatoon

ya right, take twenty of those yankee cabbage water brews to measure up to one Sleemans and it’s Guelph, not Saskatoon and the original Mr. Sleemans was probably a kraut, not a pommy (shit, gotta teach these friggin’ yankees EVERYTHING!) Hoping to meet up with Dave "Flyfish" Bottom in the morning on the Magalloway. It looks pretty grim on weather.com… /daytripper  ("Mmmmmm….Kipper snacks!"

Haven’t had kippers since I was a kid – keep this up and you might get a surprise guest one day and you might be able to twist my arm enough for me to drink some of that cabbage water. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Bob Patton’s and Bill Mason’s photos are now up. Yet to come: Meramec – Bob Patton Whitemans Creek, ON Spring Creek, PA Penns Creek, PA Credit River, ON Rapid River, ME Bronte Creek, ON Saugeen River, ON AuSable, NY 18 Mile Creek, NY or until I run out of space on the server. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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forgot the URL http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/strmr-13.html Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Bob Patton’s and Bill Mason’s photos are now up.

Thank you again, Peter.  Looking through the essay photos, I’m reminded that it’s really the little out-of-the-way waters I enjoy the most.  The big, famous rivers offer their own unique experience, but I find that a day spent with a friend on an uncrowded stream really captures the essence of the sport for me.  I’m looking forward to more pictures, but make sure that you leave yourself some time for fishing! Cheers, Bill —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

//snip// Thank you again, Peter.  Looking through the essay photos, I’m reminded that it’s really the little out-of-the-way waters I enjoy the most.  The big, famous rivers offer their own unique experience, but I find that a day spent with a friend on an uncrowded stream really captures the essence of the sport for me.  I’m looking forward to more pictures, but make sure that you leave yourself some time for fishing! Cheers, Bill

I’ll second Bill’s comments. Thanks, Charles. Now, where the hell is Frenchman’s creek? Gotta go there soon! Bob

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – //snip// Thank you again, Peter.  Looking through the essay photos, I’m reminded that it’s really the little out-of-the-way waters I enjoy the most.  The big, famous rivers offer their own unique experience, but I find that a day spent with a friend on an uncrowded stream really captures the essence of the sport for me.  I’m looking forward to more pictures, but make sure that you leave yourself some time for fishing! Cheers, Bill I’ll second Bill’s comments. Thanks, Charles. Now, where the hell is Frenchman’s creek? Gotta go there soon! Bob

Hmm…. Very nice, Peter. otoh, remind me never to take you to any of my favorite New Hampshire brookie ponds ‘lessen you leave your shootin’ iron at home! Speakin’ of brookie ponds, I hit two of the best on a sparkling White Mountain Fall day, one pond in the morning ’til lunch, the other after lunch ’til dark. Took three of my Winstons in the canoe, a 9/3 with a tiny white parachute midge on 7x, a 9/5 with a damselfly on 5x, and another 9/5 with a Type 6 uniform sinker tipped with a #10 Silverside. I was loaded for bear. The sky was blue, the sun was hot…and the wind was beginning to rise. Some nasty tropical weather is apparently coming up here to die and fighting that wind taxed the hell out of my trollin’ motor battery, not to mention making dry fly fishing more challenging at times. But I was determined to fish the three weight at least once this year so I set out, working along the windward bank, and had a ball. A 14" cold water brookie on this rod feels like a monster and before the first lap of the pond I was lucky enough to catch a couple of biguns to go with as many shorts. Kept working a dry fly along the shore line on a second lap catching the odd fish, ’til the rising wind pushed me into the clutches of The Dark Side and I took to trolling the deep middle with the supersinker. In short order – three passes over the really deep spot in the pond – I had caught a matched pair of slabby females and one precocious male short that was colored up like he meant business *this* year… Right about noon, feeling nicely toasted by rays, wind, and whatever, I pulled out and headed over to my first favorite little brookie pond and had lunch while the battery charged up. The wind had risen well beyond the 3 weight so I was down to the dry and wet fives. All afternoon I was looking for that "just barely legal" fish to boink and consume In The Name Of Tim. I fished the hell out of that pond with dry fly and streamer until near dark battling wind and white caps and wishing I had a dagger board clamped up alongside the bow. I did catch a half dozen fish before dark, but all were either undersized or honestly just too big – this close to spawning season I just can’t whack a big ol’ cow brookie or her old man (that’s *my* principle and I won’t be moved by some confused BassMaster wannabee out in Colorado . Still, felt like fish for dinner, so at dark as I drove back to my cabin I threw a reach cast into the little grocery in beautiful downtown Franconia and pulled out some Kipper snacks, smoked oysters, real cheddar cheese, and some gnarly bread that the local hippy bakery up here supplies to the store. And some *excellent*  Tuckerman Pale Ale, brewed by Kirsten and Nik at Tuckerman Brewing Company in Conway. www.tuckermanbrewing.com Just one of the *many* New England brews that would kick that pommy Sleeman’s ass back to Saskatoon Hoping to meet up with Dave "Flyfish" Bottom in the morning on the Magalloway. It looks pretty grim on weather.com… /daytripper  ("Mmmmmm….Kipper snacks!"

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Question:

I have followed this newsgroup for quite awhile now and some of you guys that complain the most about spaming always promote your own web site, now what is this??? Is this spaming???  When I post something here or anywhere else I do not put my web address down and I have not told anybody here or any other board that I am selling Bastard Bamboo, St.Croix , GLoomis, Eastbranch rods, Phillipson, Goodwin & Grangers Heddons, Southbends, H&I, Montagues, Orvis, or any other product I sell… When I posted that I really liked the Black Raven I was telling the truth about the rod.. I was really impressed with this rod.. AIt casted real smooth..When I go fly fishing it is adventure for me because I am in a wheelchair and I always have a hand full of rods to fish with and I usually fish with all the rods I take fishing with me, and I have to admit Banboo Flyrods are the funniest to fish with..  Actually I just started flyfishing and I caught my first trout on an Bamboo Flyrod, Whoops it was a Bastard  flyrod maybe this is an ilegal word here, but I really dont care what is an ilegal word..   I am really sorry if I am spaming about my Heddons,Phillipsons,Southbends,ETC..   Come on guys forget the past and lets jsut talk about fishing and if that Word Bastard come up just let it go, because a Bastard can catch fish just like an Orvis rod can catch fish..  Come on Guys lets just caych some fish on your favorite rod and your favorite fly…   Later dave

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        (blah blah blah)  Come on Guys lets just caych some fish on your favorite rod and your favorite fly…   Later dave

        dave, just go mix another drink, and forget about it.         wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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[snipped] Dave, it’s been explained to you already, but once more for emphasis: you’d never been seen here before, and suddenly a post from out of nowhere appears, overflowing with ebullient praise for a rod built by someone that had thoroughly worn out his welcome here. And adding the bit about "buying ten of them" was like waving a red flag in the face of many folks here. Thus the reaction. But it appears that those same folks might owe you an apology… [el snippo] I have to admit Banboo Flyrods are the funniest to fish with..

LOL! Welll…..No comment ;^) Stick around, Dave. /daytripper

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I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

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I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

Phooey. It’s an election year, politics is on our minds and we speak our minds. (Those of us that actually HAVE minds, anyway.:-) Tell that large, hairy, mustachioed man wearing the fishnet stockings and high heels who forces you to read political posts to put down the cat-o’-nine-tails and get back to work on the heirheads debate strategy. (Unless you really like that sort of thing.) — Ken Fortenberry

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I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else.

I wish I was young, rich and attractive. Thank *you*. — Charlie…

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I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

Yeah, wish in one hand and shit in the other.  Let us know which one fills up faster. Wolfgang Director, ROFF Office of Research

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I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

I wish people would quit reading what they don’t want to, so there you go…  I think we are about equal in our chances of getting our wishes. HTH? You’re Welcome R (who knows Slim just stole None’s horse, and is border-bound…)

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I like your new word, spaming. Maybe spame is a good name for off topic posts! Personnally, I’ve been very pleased that recently people have put "off topic" posts under appropriate headers.  They are very easy to ignore if you’re not interested. What bothers me is when you click on a fishing related subject line and you get garbage. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

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Yeah, wish in one hand and shit in the other.  Let us know which one fills up faster.

My grandma always said wish in one hand, shit in the other… and see which weighs more. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

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I wish people would stop wishing, as it is very difficult to prove whether one’s wish actually came to fruition or not! — Opie  –I *hope* this doesn’t piss the wrong people off– – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I like your new word, spaming. Maybe spame is a good name for off topic posts! Personnally, I’ve been very pleased that recently people have put "off topic" posts under appropriate headers.  They are very easy to ignore if you’re not interested. What bothers me is when you click on a fishing related subject line and you get garbage. Willi I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

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I wish people would stop wishing, as it is very difficult to prove whether one’s wish actually came to fruition or not!

I can tell you I keep closing my eyes and clicking my heels but somehow I keep getting stuck in Kansas. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

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I can tell you I keep closing my eyes and clicking my heels but somehow I keep getting stuck in Kansas.

Ah, that’s the problem: that only works to get you back *to* Kansas, you need a tornado to get you out<g. — Charlie…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You Phooey. It’s an election year, politics is on our minds and we speak our minds. (Those of us that actually HAVE minds, anyway.:-) Tell that large, hairy, mustachioed man wearing the fishnet stockings and high heels who forces you to read political posts to put down the cat-o’-nine-tails and get back to work on the heirheads debate strategy. (Unless you really like that sort of thing.)

When did Louie grow a mustache? /daytripper (OK, now I gotta run and hide. Buh byeeeeeee! ;^)

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R wrote snip::I wish people would quit reading what they don’t want to, so there you go…

The only way to get the damn thing to go away is to hit read msg. Big Dale

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It is about fishing.  If big oil get’s their empty suit in the White House look forward to clear cuts,  cynaide leach mines,  oil spills in ANWF and all imaginable kinds of hell loosed upon the earth.  The forces of greed want your fishing hole. BJC – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else. Thank You

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Yeah, wish in one hand and shit in the other.  Let us know which one fills up faster. My grandma always said wish in one hand, shit in the other… and see which weighs more.

My kinda grandma!  Never got to know any of my own.  Can I borrow yours some time? Wolfgang over the river and through the woods

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I wish that people in this newsgroup would keep their political spaming somewhere else.

I wish I had a better benefits package, a bigger apartment, three redheaded Tri-Delt mistresses, and a beer. We all got needs, pal. You’re welcome. "My father said to be strong, that a good man could never do wrong  in a dream I had last night in America" -Los Lobos

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Why, do they not make Tri-Delts anymore, or was there only one window in time when they were universally considered desirable?  I know in my undergraduate days (69-73) they were thought (and I believe thought themselves) hotter than heat. Me, I never saw it:  preferred hippy girls in peasant shirts and jeans. BTW, are we allowed to talk about women here, or only politics? JR — To reply, remove the Qs from the address above – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     "Tri-Delts" gives your approximate age away. [an assumption, but held until informed.] (MC’s comment snipped for space) I wish I had a better benefits package, a bigger apartment, three redheaded Tri-Delt mistresses, and a beer. We all got needs, pal.

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     I don’t know, it seems odd to be fixated on redheads, but even more outr

Question:

Hi folks – PPRUNE also have some pics taken by Tech Crew of some BIG buildups http://www.pprune.com/ and choose "GALLERY" Martin . You may care to contact me with your email ad for a few pics I’ve taken at FL390 in Asia re: thunderstorms. Mike    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

Ben Matthes. Adelaide, Australia.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

The region of weather surrounding the earth is in the troposphere, the layer in which we live,and it extends up to the tropopause.  It is characterised by a temp lapse rate, ie, it gets colder as we ascend. After the tropopause the next layer, the stratosphere is considered to be isothermal. As has been stated , the tropopause ranges up around 18km in the low latitudes to around 8 km at the poles. It is not continueous and has significant discontinuities in the region of about 25 -30 degrees north and south latitude  and this is where the jet streams form. Back to the cloud then, convective types, the big cauliflower ones, can go up around 50000 ft in the equitorial regions associated with the wet season. This is the Intertropic Convergence Zone, the region where the northern and southern hemisphere airs meet and mix. This zone migrates north and south with the passage of the sun. To fly north this zone must always be penetrated and that is what we experience on a flight to south east asia from Aust. The zone is wide over the land masses of asia , png and an additional zone , the south pacific convergent zone is also generated and identified from PNG through the Solomon Isls area. The zone is quite narrow around Canton Island. (sometimes!!!) Although generally speaking flight above the tropopause brings smooth, clear sky, flying conditions it isn’t the most economic place to fly and on most occasions the flight is almost finished before the aeroplane is at the weight to climb to that level. In recent times the space shuttle has identified ‘clouds’ at the 40-50 mile high region, named ‘noctilucent cloud’ by NASA. These were first reported by astronauts in the pre moon and moon shots. Thought to be water vapour that has escaped the earths atmosphere via the breaks in the tropopause at the sub tropical high pressure belt region. ( thats the belt of high px that girdles the earth and lies over aust in the winter.) cowboy Before you buy.

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Question for the Knucks    In big T/h and mission critical   do you adopt a "penetration speed" light the fires and Punch on through  or whats the current teaching.?

I think it’s something along the lines of  "Thunderstorm? Was that what that bump was?"

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<snipped me own stuff So Frank the implication here is that your ATC radar can paint weather and aid aircraft. I was under the impression it was specifically designed not to paint wx so that it did not paint out aircraft returns. Does the new set up give you this facility now or do you have access to some remote wx radar info from ??’wherever??’. cowboy Before you buy.

Hiya Cowboy My understanding is that – at Adelaide at least – there is a separate CRT (or whatever they are) on which the weather radar is displayed onto. It is reasnably smaller than the main screen used for ATC, and sits above the operator being easliy visible at all times. It also displays atmospheric electrical activity issuing a warning tone once certain paramters are passed (EG frequency of activity in a certain range) – or so I believe – I have just gleaned this info from snooping the airbands & friends who have visited the ATC Centre – not from any 1st hand knowledge ) (maybe time for another visit – but then I’d HAVE TO GO TO MELBOURNE TO DO THAT !!!!!!  :-|  ) TTFN Ben Ben Matthes. Adelaide, Australia.

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So Frank the implication here is that your ATC radar can paint weather and aid aircraft. I was under the impression it was specifically designed not to paint wx so that it did not paint out aircraft returns. Does the new set up give you this facility now or do you have access to some remote wx radar info from ??’wherever??’. cowboy

From a tech perspective… Current generation Australian ATC radar sensors have a weather channel and processor as well as the aircraft channel.  I can tell you the difference and how its done if your interested.  At the moment we aren’t sending wx info to the display system for various reasons, although that may be going to change.  The TAAATS displays are capable of displaying wx vectors but only at 3 or 4 intensities and at the moment I don’t believe the (wx intensity) levels are set to be able to differentiate storms.  The wx data is only available out to fifty NM from the sensor too.  The tech display at the sensor is capable of displaying (amongst other things, depending on how it is set up) fairly accurate wx pictures, however the data rates that would be required to present this at the centres make it impractical (read too expensive). Most centres (Presumably Perth is one of these Frank?) have RAPIC (Met wx radar) displays which are quite capable of displaying and differentiating storm cells- they actually display rainfall intensity. RAPIC sensors are at all capitals AFAIK plus various other places.  Here at Cooly the closest is Brisbane, which puts us right at the edge of range, and I’ve been told it’s not as useful as it could be.  You’ll have seen a RAPIC type display on some of the TV weather reports- they call it their ‘colour wx radar’ or some such. Sorry to jump in Frank… JM — If one synchronised swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too? Take out the zigzag or you’ll miss us…

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Frank & others Indeed your right about ATC accomodating traffic diversions Frank. I was listening to Adelaide App/Dep and Centre one Sunday night while a row of TS went through ADL (listening on my scanner that is – tucked up in bed where VFR Pilot’s should be on such a night:-)   ) A Bae146 departed ADL for MEL and very soon after takeoff reported that his WX radar had failed. With  the assistance of ATC ground based WX radar and reports from other a/c,   ATC managed to steer this 146 left and right and all over the place clear of buildups until he was about 100DME east. Always interesting listening when times are busy and WX is bad TTFN

So Frank the implication here is that your ATC radar can paint weather and aid aircraft. I was under the impression it was specifically designed not to paint wx so that it did not paint out aircraft returns. Does the new set up give you this facility now or do you have access to some remote wx radar info from ??’wherever??’. cowboy Before you buy.

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Question for the Knucks    In big T/h and mission critical   do you adopt a "penetration speed" light the fires and Punch on through  or whats the current teaching.?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sorry to disagree with you on this one cowboy. Reseachers in Meteorology have three favorite sites for thunderstorm research, Belgium Congo, Amazon Basin and Darwin. I visited a joint US/Australian research program in Darwin in the early 90’s and I cannot remember the exact numbers but in January they were getting daily CB tops over FL450. and occasionally in the 60’s. The reason for Darwin selection is the consistent formation (Hector was mentioned in another post) and the good vertical buildups. These programs are still conducted almost on a annual basis from around December to March and comprise widely displaced  radar, lightning detection and sonde flights along with fixed wing aircraft when they can afford them. The aircraft costs and risks is one of the reasons for the development of the Aerosonde (see http://www.aerosonde.com/aerora_home.htm  ) and UAV type aircraft will be used more and more in future for weather related research. No way you will get me in a C130 or Orion crunching through thunderstorms. (Crunching is the operative word) <snip IWe don’t have as much moisture in the atmosphere in Aust to generated the conditions that you describe. It could have been a mature ’supercell’ thunderstorm but even though it looked black dark and horrible it was not in the immediate path of the departing traffic. Brian G

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Frank Paterson said..  FP Didn’t mean to scaremonger, Martin. Yes, I know. It’s just that I hate lightning. Silly paranoia I know..  FP It gets trickier lower down, eg in climb or descent and in the  FP vicinity of the airport.  Traffic is denser.   ATC will still One of the most tense moments of my travelling life was a final into JFK during winter, 1996. Most of the descent was in cloud/fog, and it was rough all the way. When we touched down, and began slowing, you could almost hear the tension slide away, and not a few pax actually applauded. Like you said, it must be hell for those who do have a genuine fear of flying. .. Be nice to your kids. They’ll choose your nursing home. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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I have heard an account from a U2 pilot diverting around a storm at 100,000 feet!  I have seen many well above F410 in Australia. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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I have heard an account from a U2 pilot diverting around a storm at 100,000 feet!  I have seen many well above F410 in Australia.

When I was working in Darwin NASA had their E2 (or U2 if you wish) and a Herc (or perhaps Orion – memory fade) doing data gathering on tropical storms. The E2 used to fly on top of the CBs and the poor old turboprop had to go into the guts of it. The E2 advised one afternoon that they were 5000 ft above the highest anvil they had ever seen and they were at FL690. On another note, a Flight Service Officer asked the E2 for his actual level for traffic purposes and he stated if you get anything above FL600 let me know and I’ll give the traffic my level. Alan

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Frank Paterson said..  FP So yes, Martin, the storms can and do get that high, and they’re  FP significant. Hmmm. How comforting. I watched some people I know depart Fort Lauderdale airport during a thunderstorm. For those who’ve never experienced tropical thunderstorms, it was one of the scariest moments of our lives. I could have sworn that the Dash 8 (I think it was) was hit as it rotated. It wasn’t pleasant driving in it, either. We waited at the airport till the storm cleared. I’ve never seen so much rain and lightning than in a summer Florida storm before. .. 5 out of 3 people have problems with fractions MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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Didn’t mean to scaremonger, Martin. You can take some small comfort from the fact that at high altitudes (the altitudes we were talking about, jet cruising altitudes) you are usually in the clear and can see the cells.  Also, jet aircraft are usually fitted with weather radar so even if the aircraft is not in the clear, the pilot can usually "see" the storm on the radar and divert around it.  ATC can usually accommodate a diversion to avoid turbulance.   It gets trickier lower down, eg in climb or descent and in the vicinity of the airport.  Traffic is denser.   ATC will still accommodate diversions but it’s more difficult and traffic flows may suffer as a result.   The decision to land or depart when there is a thunderstorm in the immediate vicinity of an airport is a joint pilot-ATC responsibility. ATC is responsible for runway selection and providing as much info as possible to the pilot.  The ultimate go/no-go decision is the pilot’s. Smaller, and especially propellor driven aircraft (your Dash 8 in Florida), are generally less susceptible to wind shear and may go where a larger jet will not. If a pilot chooses to go it will be because he asses it as safe.  It will not necessarily be comfortable!  I’m aware that is of little consolation to people who suffer a fear of flying, etc.  Passengers’ comfort and their perception of the airline company and its performance may form part of the pilot’s go/no-go decision.  We (ATC) don’t consider that at all – not our job. Cheers Frank Frank Paterson said.. FP So yes, Martin, the storms can and do get that high, and they’re FP significant. Hmmm. How comforting. I watched some people I know depart Fort Lauderdale airport during a thunderstorm.

The opinions expressed above are mine and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have heard an account from a U2 pilot diverting around a storm at 100,000 feet!  I have seen many well above F410 in Australia. When I was working in Darwin NASA had their E2 (or U2 if you wish) and a Herc (or perhaps Orion – memory fade) doing data gathering on tropical storms. The E2 used to fly on top of the CBs and the poor old turboprop had to go into the guts of it. The E2 advised one afternoon that they were 5000 ft above the highest anvil they had ever seen and they were at FL690. On another note, a Flight Service Officer asked the E2 for his actual level for traffic purposes and he stated if you get anything above FL600 let me know and I’ll give the traffic my level. Alan

The second anecdote suggests the accuracy of the first. These posts are getting like fishing stories. Is there anybody reading from the BOM or Guinness book of record lies to adjudicate. cowboy Before you buy.

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Frank Paterson said..  FP So yes, Martin, the storms can and do get that high, and they’re  FP significant. Hmmm. How comforting. I watched some people I know depart Fort Lauderdale airport during a thunderstorm. For those who’ve never experienced tropical thunderstorms, it was one of the scariest moments of our lives. I could have sworn that the Dash 8 (I think it was) was hit as it rotated. It wasn’t pleasant driving in it, either. We waited at the airport till the storm cleared. I’ve never seen so much rain and lightning than in a summer Florida storm before.

The major airports in the USA are now fitted with LLWAS Low Level Wind Shear Alert  Systems utilising doppler weather radar that defines the heart of the shear and the position of it to the or an active runway. It gives a clear warning to the tower operator.There is no way an aeroplane would take off into such a storm if the alert system gave a warning. No pilot would take off into the heart of a cell. In Australia we recall the loss of the Vickers Viscount that was lost at the mouth of Botany Bay. The Sec general of the UN, Dag hammersjold ??? was lost in the Belgium Congo in the same situation. We don’t have as much moisture in the atmosphere in Aust to generated the conditions that you describe. It could have been a mature ’supercell’ thunderstorm but even though it looked black dark and horrible it was not in the immediate path of the departing traffic. They don’t pay enough for a pilot to take off into such a storm and in answer to Frank P’s post, no pilot would take off into one just to maintain the perceived passenger image of his airline……. and would the pax want him too. cowboy Before you buy.

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There have been T-storms in Oklahoma with recored tops at over 75000 ft and I don’t know of any higher that have been reported but the best weather radar equipment in the world is there so it could be theres higher storms where no one is looking. The atomsphere where storms from is about 20,000 ft at the poles to about 60,000 ft at the equator.  Of course there are exceptions and they build storms that eat trailer parks. -tim http://web.abnormal.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -My old Met instructor Billy Ware went to great lengths to explain that storms have a greater capacity for vertical growth the closer you get to the equator. This is due to the greater height of the atmosphere at the equator, which in turn is related to its higher rotational velocity than the atmosphere at the poles. Generally storms are limited by the tropopause. Which is definitely higher the closer you get to the equator.

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Hi Frank & others Indeed your right about ATC accomodating traffic diversions Frank. I was listening to Adelaide App/Dep and Centre one Sunday night while a row of TS went through ADL (listening on my scanner that is – tucked up in bed where VFR Pilot’s should be on such a night:-)   ) A Bae146 departed ADL for MEL and very soon after takeoff reported that his WX radar had failed. With  the assistance of ATC ground based WX radar and reports from other a/c,   ATC managed to steer this 146 left and right and all over the place clear of buildups until he was about 100DME east. Always interesting listening when times are busy and WX is bad TTFN – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Didn’t mean to scaremonger, Martin. You can take some small comfort from the fact that at high altitudes (the altitudes we were talking about, jet cruising altitudes) you are usually in the clear and can see the cells.  Also, jet aircraft are usually fitted with weather radar so even if the aircraft is not in the clear, the pilot can usually "see" the storm on the radar and divert around it.  ATC can usually accommodate a diversion to avoid turbulance.   It gets trickier lower down, eg in climb or descent and in the vicinity of the airport.  Traffic is denser.   ATC will still accommodate diversions but it’s more difficult and traffic flows may suffer as a result.   The decision to land or depart when there is a thunderstorm in the immediate vicinity of an airport is a joint pilot-ATC responsibility. ATC is responsible for runway selection and providing as much info as possible to the pilot.  The ultimate go/no-go decision is the pilot’s. Smaller, and especially propellor driven aircraft (your Dash 8 in Florida), are generally less susceptible to wind shear and may go where a larger jet will not. If a pilot chooses to go it will be because he asses it as safe.  It will not necessarily be comfortable!  I’m aware that is of little consolation to people who suffer a fear of flying, etc.  Passengers’ comfort and their perception of the airline company and its performance may form part of the pilot’s go/no-go decision.  We (ATC) don’t consider that at all – not our job. Cheers Frank

Ben Matthes. Adelaide, Australia.

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Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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the big towering storms up north in the wet often reach towards 50 000ft.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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Generally, if it has lightning in it, then it will go up a long way…. JB

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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We were on cruise a few years back on the way to Bangkok from Melb around 39,000 ft when we entered a violent thunderstorm and the plane was hit but seemed to emerge totally undamaged. We were surrounded by storms all with tops way higher than us. Bernie Samms Kingston Beach Tasmania Australia Aero Club of Southern Tasmania   www.acst.com.au Prologic Pty Ltd                           www.prologic.com.au

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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the big towering storms up north in the wet often reach towards 50 000ft.

I thought I’d heard mention of storm tops to 75 0000ft when I was in Isa, but then I’m Tech not Met so I wouldn’t be sure… — If one synchronised swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too? Take out the zigzag or you’ll miss us…

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A friend of mine was recently flying a corporate jet at 47,000 somewhere between Broom and Alice Springs, bound for Sydney.  They diverted around the top of a storm by what should have been an adequate margin but copped lateral gusts.  The envelope for there aircraft is not big up there and the airspeed fluctuations required *very* urgent descent.  I think he said they got a stall warning and almost a stick shaker. So yes, Martin, the storms can and do get that high, and they’re significant. Cheers Frank Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up?

The opinions expressed above are mine and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.

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Martin . You may care to contact me with your email ad for a few pics I’ve taken at FL390 in Asia re: thunderstorms. Mike    http://www.newsfeeds.com       The Largest Usenet Servers in the World!

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My old Met instructor Billy Ware went to great lengths to explain that storms have a greater capacity for vertical growth the closer you get to the equator. This is due to the greater height of the atmosphere at the equator, which in turn is related to its higher rotational velocity than the atmosphere at the poles. Generally storms are limited by the tropopause. Which is definitely higher the closer you get to the equator. My experience was that if Bill said it then generally it was true.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Last night, I watch a short Australian show. It started off with the characters on board a B747. It was flying in a storm, amidst rain, lightning, the whole bit. Now, given that these A/C can cruise at up to Fl 400 or more, do storms actually occur that high up? I’ve left MEL on some pretty shitty days, and other cities as well, where there’s been 100% cloud cover, lots of rain etc. Yet, when at cruise, the clouds seemed to be a long way below us. Probably just another television show where the producers, as usual, have their heads up their arses, when it comes to authentic plots and storylines. .. He’s old for his age. MJT Take a "p" out of gipps for an email reply Gippsland, Victoria, Australia

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Question:

Stick to ‘boonies’ curious Edwin. At least you can spell that! Aye yours, a birtish (sic) ninny – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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Stick to ‘boonies’ curious Edwin. At least you can spell that! Aye yours, a birtish (sic) ninny

Don’t be offended, he probably meant ‘nanny’ and Austria, and was watching ‘The Sound of Music’<g. — Charlie…

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She is a woman the British hire to take care of their children. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What the hell is a birtish ninny?? — Regards, Peter    Folks, I posted a similar item in a different group, but thought you folks might have an opinion. Last nite I watched some show where this birtish ninny was driving around the australian outback.

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Anthony, So I spelled British incorrectly.  Blame the booze. The important part is that I spelled ninny correctly, which is, given the reply, truly the appropriate term. cheeers, edwin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stick to ‘boonies’ curious Edwin. At least you can spell that! Aye yours, a birtish (sic) ninny

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Anthony, So I spelled British incorrectly.  Blame the booze. The important part is that I spelled ninny correctly, which is, given the reply, truly the appropriate term. cheeers, edwin

        edwin, old boy, i am in complete accord.  more whiskey and less pompous asses.         a. wayne harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Stick to ‘boonies’ curious Edwin. At least you can spell that! Aye yours, a birtish (sic) ninny

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Here in Australia we’re more likley to quote the area …ie 2 kilometers east of Mudgee on the Cudgegong River.  Although, if its an area that we don’t want to give away we’ll quote the saying "It’s at the back of Bourke" If you really want to see some "outthere" fly fishing try an obtain a tape of the TV series called "A River Somewhere" by the ABC in Australia  they’re on the web at www.abc.net.au I think). Stuart

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East Overshoe, or waythehellandgone. FlyFisherRay

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What i mean is, when you tell your buddies about where you were, do you say something like "I was way out in the boonies?"  or " I fished inthe middle of nowhere"  or what? Rooster-poot Arkansas or East bumf*ck

BWAH HAHAHA! Rooster-poot! I love it. I’m adding that one to my list, which also includes Crankshaft, Dogpatch, Fleabag Flats, Shinbone, and Scooter Gulch. Dave

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    Folks, I posted a similar item in a different group, but thought you folks might have an opinion. Last nite I watched some show where this birtish ninny was driving around the australian outback. It got me to thinking.. when fishing way out somewhere very remote, what do you call that area?  i dont mean "Oh, i get to name a spot after me" sort of thing. What i mean is, when you tell your buddies about where you were, do you say something like "I was way out in the boonies?"  or " I fished inthe middle of nowhere"  or what? I usually say the boonies, but wonder what others might use. curious, edwin

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What i mean is, when you tell your buddies about where you were, do you say something like "I was way out in the boonies?"  or " I fished inthe middle of nowhere"  or what? I usually say the boonies, but wonder what others might use. curious, edwin

Ed,         I usually say "way out in the boonies," too.  My buddy sometimes says he was "deep in the bush" or "way the f**** out in East Jesus." Bob

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What i mean is, when you tell your buddies about where you were, do you say something like "I was way out in the boonies?"  or " I fished inthe middle of nowhere"  or what? I usually say the boonies, but wonder what others might use. curious, edwin Ed,         I usually say "way out in the boonies," too.  My buddy sometimes says he was "deep in the bush" or "way the f**** out in East Jesus." Bob

…Or if you don’t want anyone to share your secret "honeyhole", it’s the "ditch behind the post office".

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What i mean is, when you tell your buddies about where you were, do you say something like "I was way out in the boonies?"  or " I fished inthe middle of nowhere"  or what? I usually say the boonies, but wonder what others might use. curious, edwin

Rooster-poot Arkansas or East bumf*ck Patrick

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What the hell is a birtish ninny?? — Regards, Peter    Folks, I posted a similar item in a different group, but thought you folks might have an opinion. Last nite I watched some show where this birtish ninny was driving around the australian outback.

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Question:

Does anyone have any place they recommend avoiding in the Bahamas for one reason or another… safety? crowds? pollution? Thanks! Patrick

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Does anyone have any place they recommend avoiding in the Bahamas for one reason or another… safety? crowds? pollution?

Nassau, for the three reasons mentioned. — DAVe & Skoshi, ‘69 Stamas 26′ http://personal.mia.bellsouth.net/mia/d/r/drsi/

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Does anyone have any place they recommend avoiding in the Bahamas for one reason or another… safety? crowds? pollution?

How ’bout that endless expanse of white sand gliding by just inches below your keel…  Y’know, The Bottom.  Definitely, avoid the bottom.

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I will NEVER go back to Nassau! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does anyone have any place they recommend avoiding in the Bahamas for one reason or another… safety? crowds? pollution? How ’bout that endless expanse of white sand gliding by just inches below your keel…  Y’know, The Bottom.  Definitely, avoid the bottom.

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Does anyone have any place they recommend avoiding in the Bahamas for one reason or another… safety? crowds? pollution? Thanks! Patrick

Nassau for sure!

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The northernmost Abacos seemed a tad dreary… of course it’s all relative; fishermen find Walker’s Cay a piscatorial paradise- scuba & beachcombing too. Norman’s Cay was a smuggling hotspot in the ’80s, but appears to be under control… now pilots fly there for fishing, scuba & gourmet food, not ‘business’.  Bimini & points south ditto. When cruising anywhere truly remote, tho, a bit of disgression is a good idea. Trimtab Does anyone have any place they recommend avoiding in the Bahamas for one reason or another… safety? crowds? pollution? Thanks! Patrick

Before you buy.

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All the places I go

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<snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a case of advice that is misguided, and when one generalizes with "Never", they are failing to consider that numerous "lake" type vessels have made quite successful voyages to and through the Bahamas, simply by selecting the weather conditions appropriate to their vessel.  Obviously when a norther is blowing against the Stream, or the winter trades are at their best, even well found cruising designs find it wiser to remain in port, but to simply recommend against this voyage under any conditions, is to be out of touch with the reality of what frequently occurs with great success.  Pick your weather, ang go!  With the shoal draft, and large accomodations, a house boat can be a wonderful cruising design for the Bahamas, with the obvious necessity to carry adequate fuel. Good Cruising, 73 — Sean Holland NP2AU S/V Spindrift

You know in all the posts on this subject, nobody has thought to ask our intrepid boater just how fast his houseboat can go.  If he can wring 20kts out of it wihtout straining, it’s only a 2.5 or 3 hour crossing … more than enough time if he waits for the weather.  He can strap a liferaaft to the stern, tank up with gas, turn on his GPS, get out his charts and be in the Bahamas in time for lunch if he starts out at 0830!  The posters talking about leaving at night in order to get to port at the destination in the daylight are talking about doing 5 or 6 kts, not 15 or 20. If he really wants to know, he should take the boat offshore a ways to see how it reacts in ocean swells in the kind of weather he wants to cross in.  If he has trouble, he can head back; if he isn’t intent on crossing, he’ll head back anyway.  You’ll never know until you try it. Colin S.

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There are houseboats in the Virgin Islands and I’m sure they weren’t built there.

Sure there are; and they may have island hopped in good weather to get there.  Or they may have come as deck cargo on a freighter. I’m not trying to rain on your parade; but safety comes first, for both you and your crew. You worked hard all your life to enjoy your retirement.  Don’t become a U.S. Coast Guard statistic. Jim Md.

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Previously in response to a request for info on taking a house boat to the Bahamas someone said: You’re pushing the envelope friend.  In no case should a houseboat be taken offshore.   If you want to go to the Bahamas, buy an airline ticket. There are houseboats in the Virgin Islands and I’m sure they weren’t built there.

This is a case of advice that is misguided, and when one generalizes with "Never", they are failing to consider that numerous "lake" type vessels have made quite successful voyages to and through the Bahamas, simply by selecting the weather conditions appropriate to their vessel.  Obviously when a norther is blowing against the Stream, or the winter trades are at their best, even well found cruising designs find it wiser to remain in port, but to simply recommend against this voyage under any conditions, is to be out of touch with the reality of what frequently occurs with great success.  Pick your weather, ang go!  With the shoal draft, and large accomodations, a house boat can be a wonderful cruising design for the Bahamas, with the obvious necessity to carry adequate fuel. Good Cruising, 73 — Sean Holland NP2AU S/V Spindrift

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This is a case of advice that is misguided, and when one generalizes with "Never", they are failing to consider that numerous "lake" type vessels have made quite successful voyages to and through the Bahamas, simply by selecting the weather conditions appropriate to their vessel.  Obviously when a norther is blowing against the Stream, or the winter trades are at their best, even well found cruising designs find it wiser to remain in port, but to simply recommend against this voyage under any conditions, is to be out of touch with the reality of what frequently occurs with great success.  Pick your weather, ang go!  With the shoal draft, and large accomodations, a house boat can be a wonderful cruising design for the Bahamas, with the obvious necessity to carry adequate fuel.

I agree that is is silly, if not rude, to tell a prospective motor boater or sailer to "buy an airplane ticket," but I still think that taking a houseboat across the Gulf Stream is, well, not smart.  To cross the stream under the best conditions, one must leave Florida in the evening in order to cross the bar at Bimini or go into the canal at Grand Bahama in daylight (and don’t Bahamas’ customs rules require daylight entry?)  Not all water-borne hazard will be spotted at night, and for an inexperienced captain, large cargo ships can be a real hazard; a flat bottom houseboat is not the vessel for maneouvering in shipping lanes. Also, the weather can never be predicted with the kind of reliability that would allow one to cross the Gulf Stream in a houseboat, particularly in winter, the main crusing time; and again, the deep water passages between the westerly cays and Nassau require better.   That "lake type sailboats" often venture to the Bahamas succesfully is merely an argument by ancedote, and so a dangerous one.  There are many, many, many cruisers anchored (right now!) in Elizabeth Harbor, off Georgetown, who got there on sheer luck alone.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is a case of advice that is misguided, and when one generalizes with "Never", they are failing to consider that numerous "lake" type vessels have made quite successful voyages to and through the Bahamas, simply by selecting the weather conditions appropriate to their vessel.  Obviously when a norther is blowing against the Stream, or the winter trades are at their best, even well found cruising designs find it wiser to remain in port, but to simply recommend against this voyage under any conditions, is to be out of touch with the reality of what frequently occurs with great success.  Pick your weather, ang go!  With the shoal draft, and large accomodations, a house boat can be a wonderful cruising design for the Bahamas, with the obvious necessity to carry adequate fuel. I agree that is is silly, if not rude, to tell a prospective motor boater or sailer to "buy an airplane ticket," but I still think that taking a houseboat across the Gulf Stream is, well, not smart.  To cross the stream under the best conditions, one must leave Florida in the evening in order to cross the bar at Bimini or go into the canal at Grand Bahama in daylight (and don’t Bahamas’ customs rules require daylight entry?)  Not all water-borne hazard will be spotted at night, and for an inexperienced captain, large cargo ships can be a real hazard; a flat bottom houseboat is not the vessel for maneouvering in shipping lanes. Also, the weather can never be predicted with the kind of reliability that would allow one to cross the Gulf Stream in a houseboat, particularly in winter, the main crusing time; and again, the deep water passages between the westerly cays and Nassau require better. That "lake type sailboats" often venture to the Bahamas succesfully is merely an argument by ancedote, and so a dangerous one.  There are many, many, many cruisers anchored (right now!) in Elizabeth Harbor, off Georgetown, who got there on sheer luck alone.

Another opinion:  A few years ago those of us who made 5 knots or less felt we should cross at night, so that if we missed the Bahamas altogether we would have all day to find the island we were looking for.  With GPS that is no longer necessary.  Easiest crossing is 50 NM from Lake Worth to West End  on Grand Bahama Island.  Anchor in Lake Worth until you are sure of settled weather with wind from the west.  I have waited as long as 10 days for the right conditions.  There will be other boats waiting out weather.  Often a group of boats cross together.  It is a comfort to cross with other boats.  The entrance to the marina at West End is tricky.  I have gone in there at least ten times, and I still worry about it. From West End on around as far as Little Harbor there are short hops and numerous anchorages.  I don’t recommend the stretch from Little Harbor to Eleuthera in a houseboat. I haven’t hear of a restriction on entering the Bahamas at night.  Go in and either anchor or dock, raise the yellow "Q" flag and don’t get off the boat until Customs arrives.

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Anchor in Lake Worth until you are sure of settled weather with wind from the west.  I have waited as long as 10 days for the right conditions. If the wind is out of the west, ahead of a cold front, wouldn’t you expect it to clock through NW then North as the front passes?  Not a good time to be in the stream. John L. Miller

Yes, sometimes the window is only about 4 hours from the time the wind picks up from the west (almost *always* in advance of a cold front) to the time it swings around to a 30 knot+ northerly gale.  Against the fast north- flowing Gulf Stream, the sea conditions become unbelievably bad with any breeze from the north. I’d ship the houseboat if I were you.  The Bahama banks would be a wonderful place for a boat like that, but getting it there across the Gulf Stream is quite a big risk. Dan

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 This is a case of advice that is misguided, and when one generalizes with "Never", they are failing to consider that numerous "lake" type vessels have made quite successful voyages to and through the Bahamas, simply by selecting the weather conditions appropriate to their vessel.

I said never and I meant never.  Houseboats are not designed for offshore work under any circumstances.  Talking about ideal wind and sea conditions is nonsense.  We are not explorers, we are pleasure boaters;   and there is no reason to place any person aboard in danger with a vessel which can only operate in ideal wind and sea conditions. The insurance companies share this view, I believe. Ask what the premium increase will be for a houseboat taken offshore.   Jim Md.

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Anchor in Lake Worth until you are sure of settled weather with wind from the west.  I have waited as long as 10 days for the right conditions.

If the wind is out of the west, ahead of a cold front, wouldn’t you expect it to clock through NW then North as the front passes?  Not a good time to be in the stream. John L. Miller

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Anchor in Lake Worth until you are sure of settled weather with wind from the west.  I have waited as long as 10 days for the right conditions. If the wind is out of the west, ahead of a cold front, wouldn’t you expect it to clock through NW then North as the front passes?  Not a good time to be in the stream. John L. Miller

Absolutely true! An Irwin 45 named "Sandy Lanes" that took off ahead of me in the westerlies before a strong cold front, wound up being driven ashore on the west side of Gun Cay! I waited until after the front passed when light southerlies began to blow and had no problem. — J.A. Rogers Sailaway Cruising Club http://www.cqws.com/zone1/sailaway/

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One of the respondents to Horace’ query stated: : You’re pushing the envelope friend.  In no case should a houseboat be : taken offshore.  I might try it if I was a Haitian boat person; but : fortunately, I’m not. : : If you want to go to the Bahamas, buy an airline ticket. Depends on the houseboat, doesn’t it?  For shoal water cruising, a smaller houseboat, with less draft, would be far more appropriate than many of the offshore keelboats currently pussyfooting around the banks. Even a craft as large as Horace’s houseboat would be vastly preferable to a similar sized keelboat, if one wanted to follow the barrier reef down Andros Is. On the other hand, a craft as well-powered as Horace’s houseboat shouldn’t have problems finding an appropriate window of time, in which to cross the Straits of Florida safely. He’ll probably have greater problems finding a mooring at port of entry (grin). If I did it, I’d want a smaller boat with less than 2′ of draft, even if it were substantially slower.  But hell, if you’ve got the boat, and the desire (and the money)… Go for it, Horace! It should be a real adventure! Good Cruising, —      Bob Martin

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The boat is 60×14 with 22" of freeboard and a 42" draft. She has twin 228HP MercCruser outdrives and a fuel capacity of 175 Gals. Cruise speed at 1500RPM is about 8 knots with 21 knots at full speed. I plan to install Radar and GPS before the trip. Am I crazy or do you think this is possible ? What would you recommend ?

You’re pushing the envelope friend.  In no case should a houseboat be taken offshore.  I might try it if I was a Haitian boat person; but fortunately, I’m not. If you want to go to the Bahamas, buy an airline ticket. YOu should keep that nice houseboat in sheltered waters.  And there are plenty of sheltered waters that are perfect for you.  How about the ICW from New England to Fla?  How about the Erie Canal, the nicest fresh water cruise on the planet?  How about the Mighty Mississipp? Good Luck. Jim Md.

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You’re pushing the envelope friend.  In no case should a houseboat be taken offshore.  I might try it if I was a Haitian boat person; but fortunately, I’m not. If you want to go to the Bahamas, buy an airline ticket.

There are houseboats in the Virgin Islands and I’m sure they weren’t built there. — J.A. Rogers Sailaway Cruising Club http://www.cqws.com/zone1/sailaway/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ed: I’m in the process of rebuilding, from the hull up, a 60ft houseboat with the ultimate purpose of curising to the Bahamas from the closest point in Florida when I retire in six years. I’ve talked to a couple of people who say this is possible, if I pick the right time of year and watch the weather carefully. The boat is 60×14 with 22" of freeboard and a 42" draft. She has twin 228HP MercCruser outdrives and a fuel capacity of 175 Gals. Cruise speed at 1500RPM is about 8 knots with 21 knots at full speed. I plan to install Radar and GPS before the trip. Am I crazy or do you think this is possible ? What would you recommend ?

There was a rig which moored in Daytona Beach for a while.  On a small river barge type hull was a white frame building with a sign "Marine Research Laboratory" (It allowed anchoring in places where people might otherwise object.)  Around the perimeter of the barge were trailer hitch balls.  The owner supposedly took it to the Bahamas using a "tug" consisting of an open runabout with a large outboard.  He had a short tower frame on the tug with another trailer hitch ball and an A-frame with three female hitchs on the corners.  By repositioning the frame he could pull, push, or run along side.  He did spend some time waiting for just the right weather conditions. I think your houseboat is several cuts above this in surviveability, but yes, the word crazy does come to mind.  Crazy is fine as long as you don’t expect someone else to bail you out. Roger —

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You’re pushing the envelope friend.  In no case should a houseboat be taken offshore.  I might try it if I was a Haitian boat person; but fortunately, I’m not. If you want to go to the Bahamas, buy an airline ticket. There are houseboats in the Virgin Islands and I’m sure they weren’t built there.

I second that!  A houseboat on the Gulf Stream is courting suicide, and there ARE some deep water passages to be made within the archipelago. Don’t do it, especially as a novice. Go, but with a good keel and skeg beneath you.

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You’re pushing the envelope friend.  In no case should a houseboat be taken offshore.  I might try it if I was a Haitian boat person; but fortunately, I’m not. If you want to go to the Bahamas, buy an airline ticket. There are houseboats in the Virgin Islands and I’m sure they weren’t built there. — J.A. Rogers Sailaway Cruising Club http://www.cqws.com/zone1/sailaway/

There might be places that you could go through once you are there.  I think a lot of large freight (cars etc) go by local freighters.  That approach should get your boat there. I crossed the Gulf stream with a perfect forcast.  By the time I was 2 hours out, I was seeing the worst continuous conditions that I had ever seen in 30 years of sailing. We are all masters of our vessels despite what anyone says.  I would give this all little thought though. Hans Paabor Rocinante I Scarborough, Ontario With great power comes great responsiblity (Spiderman)

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I mentally swapped the critical specs of your houseboat and was thinking it draws 22” and has 42” of freeboard when I wrote advising you to Go For It! Considering you have almost no spare freeboard and are a bit deeper than I believed, I should qualify my answer: You probably should not go in winter, when the weather is quite changeable (and the forecasts are therefore less reliable). Keeping in mind that safe anchorages may sometimes be 30-40 miles (i.e.four-six hours) apart, if the wind springs up suddenly the resulting sea might be too much for your boat. The Banks can develop a very steep chop. I don’t know how well houseboats drive into head seas but I suspect, not too well. You should find out first-hand before going. Dead calm conditions are, I’m told,  common in late spring and summer (save for the odd hurricane, but that’s another story).  At any rate, take a liferaft or Whaler type dinghy and a handheld VHF. And, of course, insure the vessel. Byron

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If anyone is contemplating cruising in Bahamas, I may be able to help. While I have not been to each cay, I have cruised throughout the island nation, from Walker’s Cay on the north to Long Island in the southern region. This year I am going south thru southernmost Bahamas to Turks & Caicos, despite news of major drug running and politicians’ alleged

Response:

Ed: I’m in the process of rebuilding, from the hull up, a 60ft houseboat with the ultimate purpose of curising to the Bahamas from the closest point in Florida when I retire in six years. I’ve talked to a couple of people who say this is possible, if I pick the right time of year and watch the weather carefully. The boat is 60×14 with 22" of freeboard and a 42" draft. She has twin 228HP MercCruser outdrives and a fuel capacity of 175 Gals. Cruise speed at 1500RPM is about 8 knots with 21 knots at full speed. I plan to install Radar and GPS before the trip. Am I crazy or do you think this is possible ? What would you recommend ? Thanks Ron Brown

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If anyone is contemplating cruising in Bahamas, I may be able to help. region. This year I am going south thru southernmost Bahamas to Turks & Caicos, despite news of major drug running and politicians’ alleged

In 16 years cruising in the Bahamas, drug running and politicians have been the least of my worries or problems.  They are simply not an issue for the average cruiser, and there are fewer drugs to encounter in the islands than on your average midtown street corner back in the states. Just returned from a fast passage from Ft. Lauderdale to Provo, (T&C), and the only problems encountered were related to the vessel, rather than politics or recreational pharmacy products. Good Sailing, 73,  Sean — Sean Holland NP2AU S/V Spindrift

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Go for it! Weather is key but the crossing from Miami to Gun Cay or Bimini should only take you a few hours (it’s 50nm or thereabouts). You will want to cross during a period of winds <12kts out of a southerly quadrant. You should experience chop no more than a foot or two over an easy swell. We spent a winter cruising the Bahamas in a 36′ sailboat. So long as you pick your weather carefully and hole up in one of the many protected anchorages during frontal passages, you should have no problem. Additionally, your shoal draft will open up many anchorages denied sailboats. So you should be able to avoid any unpleasantness. I would urge you to buy a short-wave receiver like the Grundig Yacht Boy 400 to get USCG weathercasts on NMN and to tune into the Bahamas marine net, as well as the big picture weather outlook from "Herb" on 12.359 at 2000 UCT. You may have to be very patient to get favorable conditions for operating in the NW Providence Channel; if it’s wintertime, you probably don’t want to operate in the northern half of the Bahamas (Abacos) as they get some very nasty weather indeed. Good luck! Byron Westerly ketch "Vela"

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Question:

I’m building an 8 ft, 6 weight, 3 piece fly rod. I haven’t been able to find any guild spacing charts that cover this variety. Anyone have any experience with this? I’m also interested in the component types and sizes that you use.

Call the company that made the blank, and speak to one of their rod builders.  They will tell you the spacing for that rod, and it will be more accurate than any generalized formula.  Then, if you want to be really sure, tape the guides on and test before you do any wrapping. CQ

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m building an 8 ft, 6 weight, 3 piece fly rod. I haven’t been able to find any guild spacing charts that cover this variety. Anyone have any experience with this? I’m also interested in the component types and sizes that you use. Thanks, Don All MEASUREMENTS are in INCHES from the tip down. This example is for 1 stripping and 8 snake guides. TIP 4 8 14 21 29 37 45 and a half 54 65 (stripping) You might also consider picking up a book on rod making, this will ensure that you tune your rod for the best performance. In addition, don’t be afraid to add 1 or 2 snake guides, this will give you better line control, and increase your distance on your cast. You Also find that, mending your line on the water is alot better too.For components, I would probably use standard snake guides and ceramic stripping guides, and a chrome tip top. Talk to a fly shop for these components, or tackle dealer. They can set you up with the right ones that you need. One warning though, some of SCSI, or fuji guides are expensive…….O.K  Neil

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Last time I had trouble with the guide spacing the guide was me and I floated into a sweeper tree and replaced everybody’s hat with a large, pissed-off water spider. Dave

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Contact Blue Ridge Rod Company at (410) 224-4072. Their catalog has a guide psacing chart for rods from 6′6" to 10". Good source of info in general. Good wrapping! Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m building an 8 ft, 6 weight, 3 piece fly rod. I haven’t been able to find any guild spacing charts that cover this variety. Anyone have any experience with this? I’m also interested in the component types and sizes that you use. Thanks, Don

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I’m building an 8 ft, 6 weight, 3 piece fly rod. I haven’t been able to find any guild spacing charts that cover this variety. Anyone have any experience with this? I’m also interested in the component types and sizes that you use. Thanks, Don

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Don:      The guide spacing charts are okay for starters, but you really want to try the "fit" before you actually wrap them. I use masking tape to hold them in place and then actually cast the rod to see how it sets up. When flexed, you don’t want too much of an angle between the guides, and conversely, you also do not want too many guides, as they will slow the line down. Also, an oversized stripping guide may improve the line flow when casting. Try it first, and then do your wrapping. Good luck! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m building an 8 ft, 6 weight, 3 piece fly rod. I haven’t been able to find any guild spacing charts that cover this variety. Anyone have any experience with this? I’m also interested in the component types and sizes that you use. Thanks, Don

Response:

I’m building an 8 ft, 6 weight, 3 piece fly rod. I haven’t been able to find any guild spacing charts that cover this variety. Anyone have any experience with this? I’m also interested in the component types and sizes that you use. Thanks, Don

Don: The Dale Clemens book on rod building has formulas which will get you close to the correct spacing.  You could also take a tape measure into a local flyshop to get measurements off a factory rod.  Initially, you will want to tape the guides on, then string the rod up to give it a ’stress test’ ( i.e. anchor the butt against a wall or have someone hold it while you bend the rod with the line as if a fish were on ).  Adjust the guide positions to minimize the distance between the line and the rod.  You may find that an extra guide is needed, especially near the tip.  ( This test is a good idea even if you have the factory recommended spacing for your blank. ) Also, while the guides are taped on, take the rod out and cast it to see how it feels.  At this point you can experiment with the position of the stripping guide by putting it as far up the rod as it will go before you start getting ‘line slap’.  The higher up it is, the less drag you’ll have. As far as component size goes, consider using guides a little larger than normal as suggested by LA Garcia.  This is especially important with the stripping guide.  Your rod may not look as sleek as factory rods, but you’ll cut down on drag through the guides when you’re casting. Good luck! Dave Welch

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Don, According to a guide spacing and sizing chart I received from Powell Rod Co. you would need  two 1/0, three 1, one 2, one 3, one #8, and one #10. Spacing is by inches from the tip top to the toe of the rear foot of each guide. 5", 10", 16", 23 1/8", 30 1/2", 38 1/4, 46 1/2", 55 1/2", 66 1/4". If this spacing doesn’t work out for you, usually the rod blank manufacturer can supply you with a spacing chart. Good luck to you. Shad Sterzick Gulpers Fly Fishing Outfitters http://www.xmission.com/~gulpers – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m building an 8 ft, 6 weight, 3 piece fly rod. I haven’t been able to find any guild spacing charts that cover this variety. Anyone have any experience with this? I’m also interested in the component types and sizes that you use. Thanks, Don

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Question:

I am planning couple of days ffishing in Texas (anywhere between Matagorda and Brownsville) in middle February.  Any suggestions on guides specializing in flyfishing and wading as well as locations greatly appreciated. Thanks, Marek

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I am planning couple of days ffishing in Texas (anywhere between Matagorda and Brownsville) in middle February.  Any suggestions on guides specializing in flyfishing and wading as well as locations greatly appreciated. Thanks, Marek

 Hello Marek, I spent a considerable amount of time in Laguna Madre.  I sea-kayaked from Corpu Christi down to Mexico.  I found the area around Port Mansfield to be fairly productive.  It is the off-season there so the guides will be looking for people to take out.  There is nothing in the town except one restaurant.  It is also a hotel.  On the way into town though, you will pass a hotel that is large.  I am not sure of the name.  The gentleman that runs this hotel is also a guide.  Very nice accomadations and very nice people.  I am sorry that I am so vague but if you happen upon this place, you will realize how small it is.  About 200 winter residents and about 6000 in the summer. I fished wherever I saw tailing reds. This was often.  Throughout the whole trip. Enjoy, Paul Johnson,

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Eric Glass, Gibb Little and Skipper Ray all will take you fishing in the South Padre, Port Isabel area.  I’ve fished with Eric.  Keep in mind that the the weather is still a a little touchy in Feb.  We probably will still be getting the occasional norther. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning couple of days ffishing in Texas (anywhere between Matagorda and Brownsville) in middle February.  Any suggestions on guides specializing in flyfishing and wading as well as locations greatly appreciated. Thanks, Marek

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Walt Kittleburger guides out of Port Mansfield.  Nobody is hard to find in Mansfield. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning couple of days ffishing in Texas (anywhere between Matagorda and Brownsville) in middle February.  Any suggestions on guides specializing in flyfishing and wading as well as locations greatly appreciated. Thanks, Marek  Hello Marek, I spent a considerable amount of time in Laguna Madre.  I sea-kayaked from Corpu Christi down to Mexico.  I found the area around Port Mansfield to be fairly productive.  It is the off-season there so the guides will be looking for people to take out.  There is nothing in the town except one restaurant.  It is also a hotel.  On the way into town though, you will pass a hotel that is large.  I am not sure of the name.  The gentleman that runs this hotel is also a guide.  Very nice accomadations and very nice people.  I am sorry that I am so vague but if you happen upon this place, you will realize how small it is.  About 200 winter residents and about 6000 in the summer. I fished wherever I saw tailing reds. This was often.  Throughout the whole trip. Enjoy, Paul Johnson,

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Question:

This is really addressed to manufacturers and fly shop owners/operators. Are there any trade publications geared to the fly fishing industry? I’m familiar with all of the consumer titles, but would be interested to find out about any trade/industry titles. Thanks for your help.

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‘Fly Tackle Dealer"  Contact the people at ‘Rod & Reel’. A.J.Thramer

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Question:

You’re a wealth of information.  Thanks!  And glad to see you’re in higher ed too.  No wonder you’re so willing to share info.  Got any suggestions on the best dry fly patterns to use?? Roger Gary L. Bertrand

: Thanks for your help Gary.  I really appreciate it.  But a : question…terms I’ve not heard "put&take" and "NoCreel."  Do both of : those mean catch a release?  That’s just fine with me, I’d never keep : a fish unless it accidently was killed in the process of catching it : anyway. : : Are the parks closed during the week all winter?  When do they open : and about what time of year does the good dry fly fishing start? : : Roger. : : I say "put & take" in the sense that during the regular season at the trout : parks, they PUT them (rainbows, usually 11-14") in each evening (about 2.3 : trout per expected tag) and we TAKE them out the next day (limit 5) on a $2 : daily tag.  Whistle blows at 6:30, everybody casts, 1/3 catch a fish, 2/3 : catch somebody else.  You can C&R if you like (20+ days are not uncommon), : but I don’t recommend it in crowded areas when the bubbas aren’t catching : much.  There are different conditions at the 4 parks (I am not familiar : with Roaring River Park) during the regular season – March 1 to October 30. :  Meramek Springs (St.James) Park allows anything, and I don’t recommend it : unless you enjoy casting around some guy chunking cheese on a treble hook : with a Rhino rod.  Bennett Springs (N of Lebanon) has 3 zones – flies only, : something like flies only but you aren’t restricted to a single-point hook : (lots of rooster tails), and bait.  Montauk Springs (SW of Salem, SE of : Licking) has flies only, anything goes, and a c&r area.  Winter season in : all 4 parks is from mid-November to mid February, weekends only, c&r (only : they call it NoCreel), flies only.  They stock them only once pretty : heavily at the start of winter season, so the catching is great in Nov and : drops off during the winter. :       The rivers below Meramec Springs (Meramec R) and Montauk (Current R) are : trophy trout areas (limit 3,15" minimum) and are open all year anytime. : You can fish them on a state or out-of-state license, put can’t keep trout : without a trout stamp.  The catching is not as good as it is in the parks, : but the fishing is much better.  The river below Bennett Springs (Niangua : R) is also open all year with no restrictions, but I haven’t fished it very : much.  I find the Bennett Springs area too crowded, even during winter : season, but they have some of the best shops in the state, so I make a : couple of trips (it’s about an hour-and-a-half from here) a year for : fly-tying supplies. :       The good dry fly fishing starts around daybreak on any day you’re lucky : enough to be out in the river without freezing your butt off (and maybe : even a few mornings with frost on your pumpkin), but I think the fishing is : best on weekdays in April.  There’s too many people on weekends, and by May : there’s too many people all week. : Gary : — : Gary L. Bertrand   Dept. of Chemistry : University of Missouri-Rolla

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One good place to start might be Bennett Spring State Park. It’s a put-n- take fishery but at least is relatively easy to get to from KC and can provide a fairly decent "fix". Ask any store that sells flies how to get there.

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I’ll give it a try….an, I’m glad you know about the need for a fishing "fix."  I’d take a 6" rainbow right now just to see a fish — it’s been too long since my waiders have been wet. : One good place to start might be Bennett Spring State Park. It’s a put-n- : take fishery but at least is relatively easy to get to from KC and can : provide a fairly decent "fix". Ask any store that sells flies how to get : there.

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I’ll give it a try….an, I’m glad you know about the need for a fishing "fix."  I’d take a 6" rainbow right now just to see a fish — it’s been too long since my waiders have been wet.

Don’t go running down there right now, expecting to put&take.  All of the Missouri trout parks are now in Winter Season for NoCreel (C&R) fishing only, and only open Fri, Sat, Sunday.  A $5 permit lets you fish all the parks (4) all winter. — Gary L. Bertrand

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Thanks for your help Gary.  I really appreciate it.  But a question…terms I’ve not heard "put&take" and "NoCreel."  Do both of those mean catch a release?  That’s just fine with me, I’d never keep a fish unless it accidently was killed in the process of catching it anyway. Are the parks closed during the week all winter?  When do they open and about what time of year does the good dry fly fishing start? Roger. Gary L.

: I’ll give it a try….an, I’m glad you know about the need for a fishing : "fix."  I’d take a 6" rainbow right now just to see a fish — it’s been : too long since my waiders have been wet. : : Don’t go running down there right now, expecting to put&take.  All of the : Missouri trout parks are now in Winter Season for NoCreel (C&R) fishing : only, and only open Fri, Sat, Sunday.  A $5 permit lets you fish all the : parks (4) all winter. : — : Gary L. Bertrand

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Thanks for your help Gary.  I really appreciate it.  But a question…terms I’ve not heard "put&take" and "NoCreel."  Do both of those mean catch a release?  That’s just fine with me, I’d never keep a fish unless it accidently was killed in the process of catching it anyway. Are the parks closed during the week all winter?  When do they open and about what time of year does the good dry fly fishing start? Roger.

I say "put & take" in the sense that during the regular season at the trout parks, they PUT them (rainbows, usually 11-14") in each evening (about 2.3 trout per expected tag) and we TAKE them out the next day (limit 5) on a $2 daily tag.  Whistle blows at 6:30, everybody casts, 1/3 catch a fish, 2/3 catch somebody else.  You can C&R if you like (20+ days are not uncommon), but I don’t recommend it in crowded areas when the bubbas aren’t catching much.  There are different conditions at the 4 parks (I am not familiar with Roaring River Park) during the regular season – March 1 to October 30.  Meramek Springs (St.James) Park allows anything, and I don’t recommend it unless you enjoy casting around some guy chunking cheese on a treble hook with a Rhino rod.  Bennett Springs (N of Lebanon) has 3 zones – flies only, something like flies only but you aren’t restricted to a single-point hook (lots of rooster tails), and bait.  Montauk Springs (SW of Salem, SE of Licking) has flies only, anything goes, and a c&r area.  Winter season in all 4 parks is from mid-November to mid February, weekends only, c&r (only they call it NoCreel), flies only.  They stock them only once pretty heavily at the start of winter season, so the catching is great in Nov and drops off during the winter.         The rivers below Meramec Springs (Meramec R) and Montauk (Current R) are trophy trout areas (limit 3,15" minimum) and are open all year anytime. You can fish them on a state or out-of-state license, put can’t keep trout without a trout stamp.  The catching is not as good as it is in the parks, but the fishing is much better.  The river below Bennett Springs (Niangua R) is also open all year with no restrictions, but I haven’t fished it very much.  I find the Bennett Springs area too crowded, even during winter season, but they have some of the best shops in the state, so I make a couple of trips (it’s about an hour-and-a-half from here) a year for fly-tying supplies.         The good dry fly fishing starts around daybreak on any day you’re lucky enough to be out in the river without freezing your butt off (and maybe even a few mornings with frost on your pumpkin), but I think the fishing is best on weekdays in April.  There’s too many people on weekends, and by May there’s too many people all week. Gary — Gary L. Bertrand   Dept. of Chemistry University of Missouri-Rolla

Response:

I’m looking for some good fly fishing places in Missouri.  I’m expecially interested in streams that are within easy driving distance to Kansas City.  I normally fish Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana, so this will be a new exprerience, so I’d appreciate any suggestions.  Thanks!

You will have to decide what is easy driving distance, but I’ll give you some ideas.If you are talking about in the normal in season time, Do the Merremac River and the Current river. As far as the Merremac goes, there is a bunch of big water fishing from around St. James on downstream. (Jon boat is good to float with then get out and wade.) The Current river offers some great classic trout stream fishing from Montauk springs on downstream. (Montauk is good for the kids and some practice in the flys only sections. Also a decent place to stay.) concentrate your serious fishing however on the current river downstream from the springs. Locals can give you guidance. Canoe is good for transportation. There are a few liveries around Montauk and you can park your car at the pickup and float down to it and leave the canoe. Don’t be put off by the Corn fisherman in the parks. They are gettin’ dinner and having a good time with the family. The Classic fishing, as I said is in the streams out of the parks. If you want some REAL western type fishing, go to Mountain Home Arkansas and fish the White and Norfolk rivers. Definitely hire a guide at Blue Ribbon Flies in Mountain Home. It will make your trip worthwile and safe. Best fishing is this time of year for the big ‘uns. Great fishing year around though. By the way, some of the land on the Current River (which is part of the Ozark Sceninc Riverway) was homesteaded by my ancestors, and I still have a bunch of relatives  we go see from time to time.     If you want specifics on locations and suggestions rather than these generalizations, Email me and I’ll respond. Kevin Williams-Indianapolis, IN

Response:

I’m looking for some good fly fishing places in Missouri.  I’m expecially interested in streams that are within easy driving distance to Kansas City.  I normally fish Wyoming, Idaho, and Montana, so this will be a new exprerience, so I’d appreciate any suggestions.  Thanks!

Response:

Question:

Where’s Fisherman’s Paradise? Sorry, Fisherman’s Paradise is a famous stretch of Spring Creek north of State College, PA.  The state, which owns this part of the stream, manages it as a special-regulations area — catch and release/no wading. The wild fish population is very dense, no doubt due to the special regulations.  Interestingly, the special regulations are the result of some sort of chemical contamination in this part of the stream, which makes the fish unsafe to eat, but apparently does little in the way of impacting on their reproduction.

The chemical contamination was mirex and a second which I can’t remember now. The DER does testing periodically and found that the last test proved the fish would now be safe for consumption.  When this was announced the two camps (C&R , C&K) both had their say.  Obviously only one camp was going to be happy. DER decision was to keep the special regs in place since they had helped to enhance the number and quality of the fish. We still experience new contami nation rather frequently.  Factories in the area (watershed) would rather pay the fine (usually 10K) for their mess than to spend the money to avoid future spills and contamination. Bug hatches had made a comeback on the stream but many of the more fragile spec ies are gone forever.  If you get the chance, walk through the Frost Entomologi cal Museum on the Penn State campus to see what once lived on the stream. Rather sad to see what we do to the environment.  The phrase: we all live downstream rings true!!!                                  Scott Maitland

Response:

Where’s Fisherman’s Paradise?

Sorry, Fisherman’s Paradise is a famous stretch of Spring Creek north of State College, PA.  The state, which owns this part of the stream, manages it as a special-regulations area — catch and release/no wading.  The wild fish population is very dense, no doubt due to the special regulations.  Interestingly, the special regulations are the result of some sort of chemical contamination in this part of the stream, which makes the fish unsafe to eat, but apparently does little in the way of impacting on their reproduction. andy

Response:

I finally made it up to Fisherman’s Paradise this past weekend.  Driving down the road that leads to the park, I tried not to get my hopes up to high.  I was expecting tons of people, park officials, cars, noise, etc.  In other words, everything that a trout person loathes.  Much to my utter amazement,  Fisherman’s Paradise turned out to be everything the books say it is — clean, serene, and uncrowded.  And to top it all off, there’s even fish there — big, beautiful, wild browns.  However, these fish have no doubt seen it all.  I fished for hours (terrestrials, nymphs, etc.) trying to convince just one of these monsters to nip at my fly — nothing doing.  They just sorta looked at my little black ant, bored stiff.  Frustrating yes, but what great fun!!  Andy sez check it out!!

Response:

I finally made it up to Fisherman’s Paradise this past weekend.

Where’s Fisherman’s Paradise?

Response:

Parham) says: I finally made it up to Fisherman’s Paradise this past weekend. Where’s Fisherman’s Paradise?

Fisherman’s Paradise is in Central PA near State College (home of Penn State Un iversity).  It was the first flyfishing only, special regs stream in the USA. Don’t remember the exact year this was developed but it’s been around a long time.  Fly only, C&R, barbless hooks, leader length limits, no wading…. It’s not stocked but is well known for number of fish per mile.  ALso well know n for having difficult fish that have seen it all (or close to it)!!!  There are some HUGE browns swimming here but they are stubborn. More info can be found by looking it up in flyfishing books about the NE or PA if not under the Paradise name look up Spring Creek in the Central area of PA (sometimes listed as Northcentral or Southcentral depending upon the book).                                Scott Maitland (it’s my "home stream")

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