Question:

The first time I fished the Rapid River with Dave, we caught many salmon.  The next year, we did the same.   Jerry Schrader Schrader Photo http://www.weddingphoto-ma.com

Response:

Jerry Schrader: <<The first time I fished the Rapid River with Dave, we caught many salmon. The next year, we did the same. Shhhhhhhhh, Jerry.  Remember, there are NO fish in Maine except pickeral and bass. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Dave Tatosian: (snipped) <<- and for God’s sake: don’t tell anyone about this place! ;^) Oh, the word is out, Dave.  Unfortunately.  But I know folks that have been there and won’t go back because they didn’t catch any fish.  Being put on a body of water with salmon and trout doesn’t mean you can *catch* them.  It is a special river that requires years to learn.  I’ve seen "outsider" guides have a zilch day when all the "regulars" were taking fish. Salmon for breakfast —– oh, if only I could have some of Jan’s fresh salmon with bacon.  BTW, Stan does much of the breakfast cooking.  I can tell the difference between their scrambled eggs – Stan’s are fluffier. Dave LaCourse

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Jerry Schrader: I have stayed at Lakewood Camps several times, and loved every minute.  It’s very rustic, with anchient trappers cabins, and excellent food and menu.  I woild recommend it highly, but don’t look for cable tv.  Bring your sleeping bag, the cabins are not insulated, andif it’s chilly, the woodstove burns out in 2 hours. It *is* rustic.  The cabins date to the early 1900s and, as Jerry says, are not insulated.  There has been a fishing camp (called a "sporting camp") at Lakewood for over a hundred years.  No need to bring your sleeping bags, Jerry.  Every cabin has plenty of blankets on the comfortable beds, and if more is needed, there are comforters provided by Sue. A little trick with the woodsoves:  go behind Stan and Sue’s quarters and get BIG pieces of wood instead of the small pieces supplied in the cabins. But most of all:  the fishing is always great.  Catching can also be good. Dave LaCourse

I’ll add: – by the end of a long day of enjoying the river – and stuffed with the best camp cooking you’ll ever find (and a few gin and tonics if you please ;^) – you’ll conk out under your pile of blankets so fast you won’t care that the fire dies down in a couple of hours. – the brisk morning air will help you to pop out of bed to get in an hour of fishing before the marvelous breakfasts that the cook (Janne Provincer) provides. (btw: If you’re lucky enough to catch a good keeper salmon, have it baked for breakfast with a few strips of bacon draped over it. Yum!) – don’t *ever* try to sneak into the main building with your waders on (Sue will feed your privates to the crawfish!) – and for God’s sake: don’t tell anyone about this place! ;^) /dave ps: Louise Dickenson Rich wrote a series of novels about the river from Richardson Lake down to Umbagog, and the people of her times there. "We Took To The Woods" is an excellent winter read, as is the sequel "My Neck Of The Woods". You’ll find some outstanding photos that show things as they were around 60 years back…

Response:

Jerry Schrader: <<I have stayed at Lakewood Camps several times, and loved every minute.  It’s very rustic, with anchient trappers cabins, and excellent food and menu.  I woild recommend it highly, but don’t look for cable tv.  Bring your sleeping bag, the cabins are not insulated, andif it’s chilly, the woodstove burns out in 2 hours.   It *is* rustic.  The cabins date to the early 1900s and, as Jerry says, are not insulated.  There has been a fishing camp (called a "sporting camp") at Lakewood for over a hundred years.  No need to bring your sleeping bags, Jerry.  Every cabin has plenty of blankets on the comfortable beds, and if more is needed, there are comforters provided by Sue. A little trick with the woodsoves:  go behind Stan and Sue’s quarters and get BIG pieces of wood instead of the small pieces supplied in the cabins. But most of all:  the fishing is always great.  Catching can also be good. Dave LaCourse

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I have stayed at Lakewood Camps several times, and loved every minute.  It’s very rustic, with anchient trappers cabins, and excellent food and menu.  I woild recommend it highly, but don’t look for cable tv.  Bring your sleeping bag, the cabins are not insulated, andif it’s chilly, the woodstove burns out in 2 hours.   Jerry Schrader Schrader Photo http://www.weddingphoto-ma.com

Response:

Dave would you have any addreses, either e-mail or landmail for the above camps?Thanks for the help ,Ralph

Hi Ralph. Here are contacts for Grant’s and Lakewood. Grant’s Kennebago Camps P.O. Box 786 Rangely, Maine  04970 (207) 864-3608 summer (207) 282-5264 winter (800) 633-4815 out of state Lakewood Camps P.O. Address Andover, Maine 04216 Phone 207-392-1581 I’ll see if I can dig up an "off season" phone number for Lakewood. While Stan and Sue Milton close down the camp for the winter, they have been working at Sunday River (ski area) while there’s snow so they’re somewhere in the area. But I’m not sure if they have the camp number ring at their winter quarters. Again, if there’s an outdoor show (as usual) at Worcester, that’d be a great place to meet the various camp operators. Regards, /dave

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m giving some thought, although it’s very early, as to where to go flyfishing in Maine this coming Spring. Would be very grateful for any recent opinions and experiences at: Grant’s Bosebuck Tim Pond Libby’s I’ve stayed at all but Libby’s in the last 20 years, but as you want "recent", that cuts it down to Grant’s three years ago, one week after the July 4th drake hatch: great fishing on both Big Kennebago Lake and the river below the dam, good food, good accomodations. You might also want to include Lakewood Camps on Richardson Lake on your list. The best food you’ll ever find at a camp, good fishing, great folks running the place… Assuming there’s an "outdoors show" at Worcester this spring, that’d be a good place to meet some of the camp operators… /dave Dave would you have any addreses, either e-mail or landmail for the above

camps?Thanks for the help ,Ralph

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Dave Tatosian: <<You might also want to include Lakewood Camps on Richardson Lake on your list. The best food you’ll ever find at a camp, good fishing, great folks running the place… Assuming there’s an "outdoors show" at Worcester this spring, that’d be a good place to meet some of the camp operators… I concur with Dave — best fishin and best camp.  Stan and Sue Milton run a classy joint with great fishing and food at a very resonable price.  E-mail me for their phone number. Expect anything with the Libby name to be a class act.  Great people and they have been doing it for years.  Please e-mail me if you want Mat Libby’s e-mail address.   Dave LaCourse

Response:

I’m giving some thought, although it’s very early, as to where to go flyfishing in Maine this coming Spring. Would be very grateful for any recent opinions and experiences at: Grant’s Bosebuck Tim Pond Libby’s

I’ve stayed at all but Libby’s in the last 20 years, but as you want "recent", that cuts it down to Grant’s three years ago, one week after the July 4th drake hatch: great fishing on both Big Kennebago Lake and the river below the dam, good food, good accomodations. You might also want to include Lakewood Camps on Richardson Lake on your list. The best food you’ll ever find at a camp, good fishing, great folks running the place… Assuming there’s an "outdoors show" at Worcester this spring, that’d be a good place to meet some of the camp operators… /dave

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10/28/98 Hello: I’m giving some thought, although it’s very early, as to where to go flyfishing in Maine this coming Spring. Would be very grateful for any recent opinions and experiences at:                                     Grant’s                                     Bosebuck                                     Tim Pond                                     Libby’s Thanks, Bob Rose

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Question:

Hi Jeff, Marc, Fishtales – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – of regulars there from your area.  And, many of them flyfish. later, Jeff I’m new at fly fishing and have know idea where to go. if you do please let me know. The Canal is not full of to many fish. — Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

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I’m new at fly fishing and have know idea where to go. if you do please let me know. The Canal is not full of to many fish.

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Try the newsgroup can.rec.fishing  if you don’t get answer there or can’t get to the group let me know. You may have to get your internet provider to place that group on their newsgroups listing. — <*))))< Paul Phillips Director of Operations Fintastic Fish Mounts http://www.fintastic.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m new at fly fishing and have know idea where to go. if you do please let me know. The Canal is not full of to many fish.

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of regulars there from your area.  And, many of them flyfish.         later,                 Jeff I’m new at fly fishing and have know idea where to go. if you do please let me know. The Canal is not full of to many fish.

– Let’s Talk Fish! Big Fish! New Canadian Fishing Newsgroup Is Here! Jeff Goddard, Ottawa, Ont. Canada

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Question:

<<A number of well-written soliloquies.  Could you not excise the few items that belong in a separate category, due to the unfortunate occurences of offennsive language?    Those gutter language quotes could have easily been excised. In fact, it took effort to include them.    They weren’t excluded and their presence show us something of the internal contradictions within Cubic Dog. -Ray

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Like I said, I like it.  Shows you something about the internal contradiction in the Moth. Those gutter language quotes could have easily been excised. In fact, it took effort to include them   They weren’t excluded and their presence show us something of the internal contradictions within Cubic Dog.

- Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)    "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer

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<<A number of well-written soliloquies.  Could you not excise the few items that belong in a separate category, due to the unfortunate occurences of offennsive language?    Those gutter language quotes could have easily been excised. In fact, it took effort to include them.    They weren’t excluded and their presence show us something of the internal contradictions within Cubic Dog. -Ray

Well, this may have something to it, Then again, I think their presence also may intend to show something of the *external* contratictions and conflicts within the sport, in fact, I think that was the point. chipper

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I find your post(and Ray’s) much more offensive than the original poetry that was originally posted. Too bad the both of you are so uptight so as not to see the real meanings behind those words.                    shallow is the depth of some souls                    the hull is inevitibly worn thin                    from years of misuse                                                                       William Davis

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<<I find your post(and Ray’s) much more offensive than the original poetry that was originally posted. Too bad the both of you are so uptight so as not to see the real meanings behind those words.    theknuckle   Badbilly – how many handles do you have in this newsgroup? -Ray

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Badbilly – how many handles do you have in this newsgroup?

Evidently one for each of his personalities:-) I like theKnuckle the best!  How bout you? – Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)    "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer

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The cold monk burns the image of the buddah, reads about the sacred cows and murmors — oh shit it sure is cold.

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Well, little moth girl, "the knuckle" is a type of motor that was made by harley-davidson motorcycles from 1932 to 1947. It is a highly coveted motorcycle. I do have multiple personalities, unlike a lot of people on r.p.b. Work…paddle….work…paddle. I know…some of you are saying, "well, what else is there to do?" The answer is…Plenty! I many past times that I enjoy. From skateboarding, flyfishing, playing nine ball(billiards), and riding and building harley-davidson motorcycles, not to mention scads of other things. enthusiasts. But surely you must know that I always put RPB in my "favorite places" folder so that I can check on all you paddlepeople whenever I want. So, now you know. Paddler…Biker….Fisherman…Pool Shark…Thrillseeker…Bad Billy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Badbilly – how many handles do you have in this newsgroup? Evidently one for each of his personalities:-) I like theKnuckle the best!  How bout you? – Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)   "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer </PRE</HTML

Response:

A number of well-written soliloquies.  Could you not excise the few items that belong in a separate category, due to the unfortunate occurences of offennsive language?

I don’t think so, Robin, re-read it – the "offensive" sections are part of a whole.  Nice-writing, Cubic Dog. – Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)    "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer

Response:

A number of well-written soliloquies.  Could you not excise the few items that belong in a separate category, due to the unfortunate occurences of offennsive language?

Response:

I like it! shimmering the warriors small boat vanishes on the eddy line his soul intact

- Mothra  (aka Kathy Streletzky)    "Whan that Aprill with his shoures soote                                   The droughte of March hath perced to the roote, . . . Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages."  - Geoffrey Chaucer

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"Fool!" "The Paddle is the soul,

snip… Very Nice…

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"Rules and laws are always the result of loss of respect and courtesy and are themselves therefore the seeds of failure see to your soul first if you seek mastery"

Well Said Brother

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Awesome poetic commentary!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "Fool!" "The Paddle is the soul, see to your soul first or there will be no mastery." The warrior smiles as his children play. These new ones come, I had seen their forebearers come to the crags when I was young, We the clueless clutched and groped our way skyward, tenous pro, lead out on clean placements. They with white scars of chalk showing all the moves, drove bolts and clipped in, stretching out the ladders to touch the heart of fear, climbed glass while we spat on the ground in disgust. They breezed our standards and buried the soul. He had an old land rover, and we pulled the grill off and brought it with us to throw it over the fire to grill some steaks we bought in town the other day. Our canoes were safely ashore high above the water and tied off just in case. It was raining. "Kore wa burauni desu. Chairo no chyokoreeto no keeki desu. Doozo." I took the offered brownie cake, it tasted strongly of herbs. The warrior told me of important things, sex, death, flyfishing, , I watched the stars melt. Years passed and quiet bass fishermen with stealthy trolling motors drift jerkbaits through the camp. The dam is a success. Ten thousand years ago, the warrior walked away from the field at the end of the day his hide intact, only by the grace of God. His seed sees the whole world No field, no lance thrust to parry we pierce ourselves No spoils no freedom dashed at the slavers block we forge our own chains No tribe no belonging ritual to earn we ink and needle our limbs "Fuck You, Bitch" we say in conversation, without meaning or feeling or care The warrior muses on the antinym of competition "Rules and laws are always the result of loss of respect and courtesy and are themselves therefore the seeds of failure see to your soul first if you seek mastery" Fuck you! I can throw ends till you puke watching me I got the flatspin down and I can kick yer butt at rodeo class IV? you call that class IV? I fell asleep That creek roks, I kicked its ass though shimmering the warriors small boat vanishes on the eddy line his soul intact the mystery is fun :wq

The best post to this group in days!

Response:

"Fool!" "The Paddle is the soul, see to your soul first or there will be no mastery." The warrior smiles as his children play. These new ones come, I had seen their forebearers come to the crags when I was young, We the clueless clutched and groped our way skyward, tenous pro, lead out on clean placements. They with white scars of chalk showing all the moves, drove bolts and clipped in, stretching out the ladders to touch the heart of fear, climbed glass while we spat on the ground in disgust. They breezed our standards and buried the soul. He had an old land rover, and we pulled the grill off and brought it with us to throw it over the fire to grill some steaks we bought in town the other day. Our canoes were safely ashore high above the water and tied off just in case. It was raining. "Kore wa burauni desu. Chairo no chyokoreeto no keeki desu. Doozo." I took the offered brownie cake, it tasted strongly of herbs. The warrior told me of important things, sex, death, flyfishing, , I watched the stars melt. Years passed and quiet bass fishermen with stealthy trolling motors drift jerkbaits through the camp. The dam is a success. Ten thousand years ago, the warrior walked away from the field at the end of the day his hide intact, only by the grace of God. His seed sees the whole world No field, no lance thrust to parry we pierce ourselves No spoils no freedom dashed at the slavers block we forge our own chains No tribe no belonging ritual to earn we ink and needle our limbs "Fuck You, Bitch" we say in conversation, without meaning or feeling or care The warrior muses on the antinym of competition "Rules and laws are always the result of loss of respect and courtesy and are themselves therefore the seeds of failure see to your soul first if you seek mastery" Fuck you! I can throw ends till you puke watching me I got the flatspin down and I can kick yer butt at rodeo class IV? you call that class IV? I fell asleep That creek roks, I kicked its ass though shimmering the warriors small boat vanishes on the eddy line his soul intact the mystery is fun :wq

Response:

Question:

A friend of mine is looking for a second hand two handed fishing rod for salmon. Does anyone know where he can get one? Thanx Ed

Response:

I have a G. Loomis IMX FR1808/9 (15 feet 8-9 weight) for sale. It has been used for 2 years and in a good shape. I am asking $250.00. A friend of mine is looking for a second hand two handed fishing rod for salmon. Does anyone know where he can get one? Thanx Ed

– Shinji Unno                     Karaoke Party in Seattle, WA, USA? Also a steelhead fly fisher               http://www.sbkaraoke.com

Response:

A friend of mine is looking for a second hand two handed fishing rod for salmon. Does anyone know where he can get one? Thanx Ed

– Ed, You may try to advertise at http://www.capricorn.se/begagnat.html (swedish commercial site, second-hand sall/buy is a free service). The text is in swedish but I think you can easily work out the translation to dutch… description with what to buy, with name, phone number and E-Mail address (if any). – Tord Remove _spamblock_ for E-Mail reply

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Question:

Hi, I am planning a 1 week fishing vacation in Montana for the 3rd week of September. I am thinking of fishing with a guide for a couple of days and without guides for four days. I don’t know anything, though, about the best rivers to fish in this particular period, about the type of insects I might expect etc. Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated. – Vittorio Castelli

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am planning a 1 week fishing vacation in Montana for the 3rd week of September. I am thinking of fishing with a guide for a couple of days and without guides for four days. I don’t know anything, though, about the best rivers to fish in this particular period, about the type of insects I might expect etc. Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated. – Vittorio Castelli

Where in Montana will you be??

Response:

September hatches include the blue-winged olive and the beginning of the October caddis hatch.  Hopper activity is still high then too.  Browns will be thinking about there up and coming spawning runs.  Missouri and lower Clark Fork are my favorites then. — Brian D. Nelson Missoula, Montana Montana Flyfishing and Hunting Outfitter http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am planning a 1 week fishing vacation in Montana for the 3rd week of September. I am thinking of fishing with a guide for a couple of days and without guides for four days. I don’t know anything, though, about the best rivers to fish in this particular period, about the type of insects I might expect etc. Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated. – Vittorio Castelli Where in Montana will you be??

Well, as I was saying, I am planning a trip in the generic area of Montana, but I don’t know where. I have no preferred place, having fished there only once and in less-than-optimal conditions. -Vittorio

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am planning a 1 week fishing vacation in Montana for the 3rd week of September. I am thinking of fishing with a guide for a couple of days and without guides for four days. I don’t know anything, though, about the best rivers to fish in this particular period, about the type of insects I might expect etc. Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated. – Vittorio Castelli Where in Montana will you be?? Well, as I was saying, I am planning a trip in the generic area of Montana, but I don’t know where. I have no preferred place, having fished there only once and in less-than-optimal conditions. -Vittorio

Big state ya know…around Missoula is good…lower Clark Fork is good…of course the Yellowstone area is good…the Big Horn area is good…lots of good!

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am planning a 1 week fishing vacation in Montana for the 3rd week of September. I am thinking of fishing with a guide for a couple of days and without guides for four days. I don’t know anything, though, about the best rivers to fish in this particular period, about the type of insects I might expect etc. Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated. – Vittorio Castelli

Hi Vittorio Missoula will put you close to the Clark’s Fork, Missouri, and the Bitteroot rivers. Bozeman puts you close to Yellowstone Park, Yellowstone, Madison, Gallatin, Missouri, & Bighorn rivers. Billings puts you close to the lower Yellowstone and the Bighorn rivers The 3rd week in September is black caddis time on the Bighorn. Good luck. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 materials catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I am planning a 1 week fishing vacation in Montana for the 3rd week of September. I am thinking of fishing with a guide for a couple of days and without guides for four days. I don’t know anything, though, about the best rivers to fish in this particular period, about the type of insects I might expect etc. Any suggestion would be greatly appreciated. – Vittorio Castelli

I had excellent fishing the 3rd week of September, 1996, in the Missoula area, especially on guided floats on the Clark Fork and Bitterroot Rivers, but also wading the Clark Fork and the St. Joe in Idaho (2+ hour drive).  I also floated on a Kingfisher pontoon boat the Missouri both above and below Craig 9/24 and 9/25.  The Missouri didn’t fish as well then as it had in mid-August, ‘96, or mid July, ‘94 and ‘95, but it was a lot less crowded.  Of course, those 2 days in September may just have been off days– cold, windy, dreary. In Missoula I can strongly recommend Missoulian Angler as outfitter– see http://www.ism.net/~mslanglr/index.html  I used them in ‘95 and ‘96 for guides, gear and advice and have been very satisfied in all respects.  The guides are very hard working and will keep you catching fish from morning well into the dark if you’re up for it. Also, the rivers in the Missoula area, except for Rock Creek, are considerably less crowded than the Missouri, Gallatin, Madison and Yellowstone Park rivers, which adds to my pleasure. Phil Holt

Response:

In response to the message from me to this newsgroup earlier today about September fishing in the Missoula area, I received the following boldly stated Also, the rivers in the Missoula area, except for Rock Creek, are considerably less crowded than the Missouri, Gallatin, Madison and Yellowstone Park rivers, which adds to my pleasure. Phil Holt SO MUCH FOR THEM NOT BEING CROWDED ANYMORE!!!!!  THANKS ALOT!!!!

I admire a person who has the courage of their convictions.

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: Missoula will put you close to the Clark’s Fork, Missouri, and the : Bitteroot rivers. Al, you left out that Missoula also puts one close to Idaho. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Oh yeah…if he wants a potato! :=)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In response to the message from me to this newsgroup earlier today about September fishing in the Missoula area, I received the following boldly stated Also, the rivers in the Missoula area, except for Rock Creek, are considerably less crowded than the Missouri, Gallatin, Madison and Yellowstone Park rivers, which adds to my pleasure. Phil Holt SO MUCH FOR THEM NOT BEING CROWDED ANYMORE!!!!!  THANKS ALOT!!!! I admire a person who has the courage of their convictions.

If I identified myself I might have to worry that you would follow me to my favorite and still reasonably  secluded fishing holes!  I can imagine… elbow to elbow!!

Response:

: Missoula will put you close to the Clark’s Fork, Missouri, and the : Bitteroot rivers. Al, you left out that Missoula also puts one close to Idaho. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Gee, Bill, as a fellow who makes his living peddling ranch land to developers, I’d think you’d support any effort to encourage people to immigrate to Montana, as you did, or just come to build second homes and enjoy the fishing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In response to the message from me to this newsgroup earlier today about September fishing in the Missoula area, I received the following boldly stated Also, the rivers in the Missoula area, except for Rock Creek, are considerably less crowded than the Missouri, Gallatin, Madison and Yellowstone Park rivers, which adds to my pleasure. Phil Holt SO MUCH FOR THEM NOT BEING CROWDED ANYMORE!!!!!  THANKS ALOT!!!! I admire a person who has the courage of their convictions. If I identified myself I might have to worry that you would follow me to my favorite and still reasonably  secluded fishing holes!  I can imagine… elbow to elbow!!

Response:

OK, thanks to my stupidity its all out in the open now!  I hope you realize I did this all tongue in cheek…  it is just a small town and I would hate for someone to think I was serious (by the way… I didn’t mean to send it to you direct the first time… I am new to the newsgroups… I meant to post it as a follow up);  HOWEVER, I do take issue with your characterization of my business.  We do not "peddle" to developers!  In fact, we work closely with the nature conservancy and many other conservation minded organizations and individuals hoping to protect lands from overdevelopment.  By the way, do I know you?!?  How did you find out about my business, Sherlock? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gee, Bill, as a fellow who makes his living peddling ranch land to developers, I’d think you’d support any effort to encourage people to immigrate to Montana, as you did, or just come to build second homes and enjoy the fishing. In response to the message from me to this newsgroup earlier today about September fishing in the Missoula area, I received the following boldly stated Also, the rivers in the Missoula area, except for Rock Creek, are considerably less crowded than the Missouri, Gallatin, Madison and Yellowstone Park rivers, which adds to my pleasure. Phil Holt SO MUCH FOR THEM NOT BEING CROWDED ANYMORE!!!!!  THANKS ALOT!!!! I admire a person who has the courage of their convictions. If I identified myself I might have to worry that you would follow me to my favorite and still reasonably  secluded fishing holes!  I can imagine… elbow to elbow!!

Response:

Dear Victorio,  We suggest you visit our guest ranch, Hawley Mountain Guest Ranch.  You can get more details on the ranch at http://www.duderanch.org than go to Montana state to find us.  We have four lodge rooms and three cabins on 155 acres surrounded by a million acres of wilderness 25 miles north of Yellowstone Park.  Within walking distance of our lodge we have a stocked trout pond and 1 mile of the Boulder  River.  Guiding is included in our rates and a 4 day minimum stay is possible in September.  In addition, in September we will be fishing in streams and lakes in the Wilderness that can be reached by horseback.  The best flyfishing in Montana at our altitude (6400ft.) is from mid-July through September. BBlewett

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK, thanks to my stupidity its all out in the open now!  I hope you realize I did this all tongue in cheek…  it is just a small town and I would hate for someone to think I was serious (by the way… I didn’t mean to send it to you direct the first time… I am new to the newsgroups… I meant to post it as a follow up);  HOWEVER, I do take issue with your characterization of my business.  We do not "peddle" to developers!  In fact, we work closely with the nature conservancy and many other conservation minded organizations and individuals hoping to protect lands from overdevelopment.  By the way, do I know you?!?  How did you find out about my business, Sherlock? Gee, Bill, as a fellow who makes his living peddling ranch land to developers, I’d think you’d support any effort to encourage people to immigrate to Montana, as you did, or just come to build second homes and enjoy the fishing. In response to the message from me to this newsgroup earlier today about September fishing in the Missoula area, I received the following boldly stated Also, the rivers in the Missoula area, except for Rock Creek, are considerably less crowded than the Missouri, Gallatin, Madison and Yellowstone Park rivers, which adds to my pleasure. Phil Holt SO MUCH FOR THEM NOT BEING CROWDED ANYMORE!!!!!  THANKS ALOT!!!! I admire a person who has the courage of their convictions. If I identified myself I might have to worry that you would follow me to my favorite and still reasonably  secluded fishing holes!  I can imagine… elbow to elbow!!

Ahem, I apologize, I just wanted some information, I really did not mean to start such a discussion !! Anyway, thanks to all of you that sent me notes or replied to my inquiry on the usergroup, I am sort of getting some ideas of what to do and where to go, too bad  the 3rd week of september is not 100 days long …. Going back to the fuss, I am just wondering what would have happened if I had mentioned Orvis in my posting … Just kidding ! -Vittorio

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Will be in Montana 3rd week of Sept. and hitting several rivers. We have to make a decision to fish either the Madison or Yellowstone but not both. Tough choice. Anybody having fished both at this time of year I would like to hear from you. I was hoping some fish might still be on hoppers on the Yellowstone and maybe the Madison around Ennis.  Anybody knowing of any private water fee fishing in either area as a distraction let me know.  I have also been told that fishing in the Slide Inn area has been coming back lately. Any verification on this? Thanks.

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Will be in Montana 3rd week of Sept. and hitting several rivers. We have to make a decision to fish either the Madison or Yellowstone but not both. Tough choice. Anybody having fished both at this time of year I would like to hear from you. I was hoping some fish might still be on hoppers on the Yellowstone and maybe the Madison around Ennis.  Anybody knowing of any private water fee fishing in either area as a distraction let me know.  I have also been told that fishing in the Slide Inn area has been coming back lately. Any verification on this? Thanks.

Hi Glen September fishing on either river will be great. Fish are just starting to take hopper now and this will continue until a hard freeze or two kills them off. Also streamer fishing on the Yellowstone river in the fall is also good. Fee waters in the area include the spring creeks in the Paradise valley. I suggest getting in contact with the River’s Edge in Bozeman (406-586-5373) when you get here to get information, licenses, guides, whatever. If you want a day on the spring creeks I suggest booking soon. Take care & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Will be in Montana 3rd week of Sept. and hitting several rivers. We have to make a decision to fish either the Madison or Yellowstone but not both. Tough choice. Anybody having fished both at this time of year I would like to hear from you. I was hoping some fish might still be on hoppers on the Yellowstone and maybe the Madison around Ennis.  Anybody knowing of any private water fee fishing in either area as a distraction let me know.  I have also been told that fishing in the Slide Inn area has been coming back lately. Any verification on this? Thanks.

I fished the Madison and the Yellowstone the 3rd week of September 1996.  However, the rivers were not as high as they are this year. There were some, but not a lot of, hoppers.  The nights were too cold. Hoppers did not get active until late afternoon.  A royal trude, size 14 or 16, with a prince nymph or hare’s ear nymph dropper tied directly off the hook of the trude with about 20 to 24 inches of tippet worked well on both rivers.  Humpy, caddis, stimulator, bee, and trude patterns worked well on the Madison,  These were also fished with a prince nymph or hare’s ear nymph dropper.   I would forget the fee fishing and consider trying a float tube on South Meadow Lake out of McAllister if it is accessible.

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You do not specify what type of Japanese Maples these are, but…. I would recommend not pruning your Japanese Maple.  My wife’s grandmother had some very nice old maples that we had to prune every year, only because some gardner had once pruned them back.   Her/our experience was that once they’re pruned the pruned ends bush out and sucker heavily.  Every year these trees (15-20 feet tall) would bush out and become so thick you couldn’t see into them.  The pleasure of the japanese maple is the open, airy look, which was totally destroyed by the pruning. G-maw railed on and on every year about how they should never have touched those trees.  She was quite an experienced gardner and ikebana instructor, and knew her stuff.  In her opinion, the only pruning that should ever be done is to remove large branches to help promote the open feel these trees should have.  The natural shape is wonderful if you just let it go and grow up…

   My advice is also non-professional, and while I agree with these sentiments about what happens if you prune badly, it doesn’t follow that J. Maples shouldn’t be pruned.  It’s certainly true that if you lop off a major branch of most deciduous trees, the tree will put out many shoots from that point and generally look bad.  The proper thing is to prune early to establish the shape of the tree as it grows…and this pruning should generally be of complete stems or branches.  If you must cut off a thicker branch or stem other than at the base, it should be just beyond a smaller side branch that you expect to provide a better shape.  It may still be necessary to get rid of suckers, but they are easily rubbed off with your thumb when small, and the resprouting does not go on forever.   I too like the open airy look of a properly trimmed J. Maple, but this rarely happens by accident or neglect. — Lloyd Fortney http://www.phy.duke.edu/~fortney/ has links to my garden, flower, flyfishing, and travel JPEG images as well as teaching, research, and stuff like that

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I LOVE THIS COMMENT AND INTEND TO PLAIGERIZE IT(SP): This is non-professional advice and if followed, voids your warranty… MY SENTIMENTS EXACTLY!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In our yard in Tuscaloosa, Alabama we have nice small three year old Japanese Maple  in need of pruning for better shaping, etc.  Is it OK to prune branches now

Question:

What makes the best strike indicator the old styrophome or the yarn? I have always used the florecent ones but several people I talked to have said that the yarn works as well and doesn’t scare the fish.

Hi Patrick I like a yarn indicator if I’m fishing big, heavy nymphs deep or a larger dry fly on an in-line dropper if I’m fishing a nymph in the first 2-3 feet of water. Often you will catch a fish on the indicator fly – my favorite for the Yellowstone or Madison is a #8 or #10 Royal Wulff. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Corke Vs. Yarn         ..they use bobbers we use strike indicators..many streams don’t allow a fly as an indicator…I use "Biostrike"…works pretty good except when I aggressively cast then I may lose it…but NTL it works fine for me steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What makes the best strike indicator the old styrophome or the yarn? I have always used the florecent ones but several people I talked to have said that the yarn works as well and doesn’t scare the fish. Hi Patrick I like a yarn indicator if I’m fishing big, heavy nymphs deep or a larger dry fly on an in-line dropper if I’m fishing a nymph in the first 2-3 feet of water. Often you will catch a fish on the indicator fly – my favorite for the Yellowstone or Madison is a #8 or #10 Royal Wulff. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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What makes the best strike indicator the old styrophome or the yarn? I have always used the florecent ones but several people I talked to have said that the yarn works as well and doesn’t scare the fish.

I like yarn.  I keep a couple of colors in my vest.  With yarn you can make a large indicator, a small indicator or several small ones to help you detect subtle takes.  Try mixing two colors to improve visibility in heavy water and bad light. Good luck – Jeff Schmitt

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Hi Patrick, I rarely use any thing but yarn these days.  For about $6, I bought a big spool of bright red yarn and pale yellow yarn from Ben Franklin. I have a feeling that even if I keep guiding for the next 10 years, I will still have alot left over.  Myself and the clients I guide prefer it much more so than the "bobber" strike indicatiors.  You can adjust the amount from the size of an Osprey’s nest if your in choppy water or have trouble seeing small indicators to a pinch for spring creek/fussy fishing.  Grease it up, and it floats high and dry for a very long time.  Plus, with the knot I use, it is easy to readjust it’s position and stays put (doesn’t fly off like most of the slip on indicators. But, I usually use a high floating dry or two for an indicator. What makes the best strike indicator the old styrophome or the yarn? I have always used the florecent ones but several people I talked to have said that the yarn works as well and doesn’t scare the fish.

Paul Williamson Emigrant, MT 59027

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What makes the best strike indicator the old styrophome or the yarn? I have always used the florecent ones but several people I talked to have said that the yarn works as well and doesn’t scare the fish.

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What makes the best strike indicator the old styrophome or the yarn? I have always used the fluorecent ones but several people I talked to have said that the yarn works as well and doesn’t scare the fish.

My favorite strike indicator is a #12 royal humpy.  Sometimes the fish will try to take the indicator.  Might as well have a hook in it! CQ

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Question:

Will be going to the Eugene area in mid-May to fish with my father-in-law.  Does anyone know of some convenient locations to trout fish?  I would really appreciate some help.  Both spin and fly.

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Will be going to the Eugene area in mid-May to fish with my father-in-law. Does anyone know of some convenient locations to trout fish?  I would really appreciate some help.  Both spin and fly.

I would call Bob Guard at the Caddis Fly Shop in Eugene for some good info. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Will also be in Eugene fishing May 17-25. My friend is acting as our guide. He says the McKenzie has awesome caddis hatches this time of year. Will also be going to the Motolius River. He also recommended the Caddis Fly Shop. Good Luck and tight lines

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Will be going to the Eugene area in mid-May to fish with my father-in-law.  Does anyone know of some convenient locations to trout fish?  I would really appreciate some help.  Both spin and fly.

Fall creek is a small creek just outside of Eugene that has trout. If you have access to a boat the lower part of the McKenzie is great, if not just drive up hwy 126 along the river. Above Leaburg dam the water is small enough to wade and fish and they have recently stocked it so there will definately be some dumb easy to catch fish along with the natives.   Basicly just about any stream you see will have trout in it. Get a synopsis from a fishing shop if you don’t have one because some of the water has special restrictions, like no bait, barbless, fly fishing only and release of non-hatchery fish (can you believe it T-Bone, its the law and there are some huge wild redsides in the lower McKenzie because of it) Have fun and let us know how it went. Martin Allen

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Question:

Looking for used Sage rod in good condition. This is for me and is not a commercial venture. I love fly fishing and I want to have a nice rod. Used fishing reel of excellent quality also wanted. . email telephone number and name so I can contact you with questions, Thanks. Russ.

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Question:

Among your goals you forgot.. "protect your feet from hazards of the river and trail".   No sandal can do this without neoprene socks, and neoprene boots are less nuisance than neoprene socks plus something else. Since my Patagonia reef walkers (sock top, felt sole, rubber caps for toe and heel) died, I’ve been using neoprene boots all summer.  When my feet get warm I put them in the water.  When it’s very cold I use neoprene socks under neoprene boots … Mary Shaw

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I’m looking for suggestions on whitewater footwear? A couple of people have suggested rock climbing shoes.  Has anyone (anyone who doesn’t work at SGI, that is tried this?  How much do these cost?  How well do they grip both wet and dry rocks?  Are they comfortable enough to wear on long trips (both long days and overnighters)?

As someone who climbs and kayaks, I would highly discourage the use of rock shoes for kayaking.  Rock shoes have almost no traction on wet rocks.  They are tight and uncomfortable, and they would probably disintegrate under the wet conditions encountered on the river. After experimenting with a number of solutions (Aqua Socks, Wetsuit booties, TEVA sandals with neoprene socks) I have settled on the following solution: neoprene booties with felt soles (ala fly fishing waders).  They give good traction on wet rocks, OK traction on dry rocks, and are comfortable to wear all day in a kayak.  They are available from a number of suppliers – I got mine from Nortwest River Supplies without the felt soles, then glued on the felt soles after I found the ribbed rubber soles to not offer enough traction on wet and mossy rocks. Your mileage may vary. Kurt Bittner       ]"It is not Nature-as-Chaos which threatens us, but the

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There was a rather stupid article about this recently in Outdoor magazine. They seemed to favor manufacturers who advertised in the magazine, rather than those with good products.  For example, they liked Timberland sandals, despite leather that wouldn’t survive constant wetting, and flimsy velcro that would come loose even in a class II swim. Whitewater footwear must meet a variety of often contradictory goals:  o Sometimes it must be warm, sometimes it must be cool and dry fast.    Neoprene booties meet the first goal, but are terrible in hot weather,    especially for side hikes.  Soggy sneakers feel awful by end of day.    Only Teva-style sandals with optional neoprene socks meet both goals.  o Easy to put on and take off, but must be secure during a big "swim".    Neoprene booties with side zippers are the best compromise, but the    zipper can fail and cold water penetrates there.  If you can tuck in    the rear velcro, toe-loop Tevas are more secure in a swim than Teva    Universals, which have three velcro sections to come loose.  o Good traction on wet rocks, good traction for climbing on side hikes.    Felt soles are best on wet rocks, whereas tread patterns are best on    side hikes.  A good compromise would be flat stealth rubber.  Sneakers    or light hiking boots with wetsocks are a good choice.  Oddly enough,    Tevas have better all-around traction after the tread wears down.  o Stiffness and lateral support for hiking, flexibility for kayaking.    Neoprene booties are terrible on long hikes, but great for footpegs.    Toe-loop Tevas provide more lateral support than sandals that surround    the foot, but 2-toe wetsocks are neither warm nor comfortable, plus    toe loops are not adjustable. The Teva 5.10 Approach seems to be the best product available, but costs around $80.  Available either toe-loop or around-the-foot. It has buckles instead of velcro, and stealth rubber soles, unfortunately with pattern. Stealth rubber wears out fast.  Cheapskates can always have regular Tevas resoled, and use safety pins on the velcro. Some guides like Alp sandals, but I hate them.  They’re very difficult to put on, and every time I take a swim, the front strap comes off.  The soles are very slippery on sand-covered dry rock.  They’re much better now that the tread has worn off but the nylon straps are badly frayed after only two seasons. Sierra Hi-Trax sandals are worth looking at.  They have buckles instead of velcro, appear to wear longer than any alternative, and cost much less. I haven’t tried them yet.  The soles are patterned rubber.  Several designs are available, including toe-loop and diagonal strap models.

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Best thing I’ve found is neoprene boots with felt soles. The felt is the same stuff fishermen use on the soles of their waders to provide good footing on slippery rocks. For summer, I used to wear the Patagonia one-toed things with felt sole and a sock-like top that came up about as high as an athletic sock.  Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to find them since Tevas and the water slippers came out.  Now I wear the neoprene/felt boots all year. Mary Shaw

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Prijon makes a kayaking shoe which I hear is awfully expensive ($150?). They’re red/yellow and look really funny, and I was way jealous of my companions who had them on our last portage fest. cheers, scott smay

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 (Jon Beck) writes:  (David Elliott) writes:

  I’m looking for suggestions on whitewater footwear?    Nothing I’ve ever used comes close to Tevas. I use the original model  with the thong between 1st and 2nd toes, as they’re much more secure  on the foot. I’ve used Tevas for years but just got a pair of Alps at REI.  They stay on better and seem just as sticky.  The price was about the same. bob maccione..

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I’m looking for suggestions on whitewater footwear? Nothing I’ve ever used comes close to Tevas. I use the original model with the thong between 1st and 2nd toes, as they’re much more secure on the foot. In the summer, I wear them alone. In cold weather, I wear one-toed neoprene socks from Northwest River Supply under them. In *cold* weather, I wear them over my sewn-in drysuit feet. Jon Beck, SoRReL Project GRA

        I prefer ALPS sandals, since they have adjustable plastic buckles rather than Velcro.  The Velcro on my Tevas would give up when they got covered in sand or mud (fills up the loops).  Also, the Velcro will pull loose when you rub the foot against something, or have to swim/wade strong currents.  Your mileage may vary. — Brad Whitehurst    |   Aerospace Research Lab

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What about Tevas (or clones)?  Actual Tevas have soles made by 5.10, my clones (Boulder Sandal Company) are still pretty good.

I’ve tried my Tevas in the boat, but I’m not happy with them for two reasons: 1. The soles don’t flex very much (compared to the wetsuit booties I usually use) making it difficult to maneuver my feet around.  It’s not easy to get them off the footbraces and into the "rest" position I use for drifting. But that’s not much of a big deal compared to… 2. I’m concerned that the straps on the Tevas might catch on the footbraces at just the wrong time.  If I had bulkhead-style footbraces, this wouldn’t be an issue; but with the Yakima pegs it could be a problem. —Rsk

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I prefer the neoprene boots.  I understand that the instructors at NOC like the Alps for much of what they do, except for kayaking.  They apparently are concerned with snagging the straps on footbraces, tree limbs, etc.

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David Elliott: I’m looking for suggestions on whitewater footwear? My current favorite is the Deep See zippered boot ..

This is what I use.  They work great.  I have the Coral Kings. If its real slippery rock, go barefoot. A couple of people have suggested rock climbing shoes.

Don’t work when they are wet, and are expensive ~100 clams. Ilana Stern: …and not enough of a sole [rock climbing shoes] to push against footpegs.

This doesn’t wash, I kayak barefoot all the time. What about Tevas (or clones)?

Soles don’t bend very well to fit into kayaks.  I find them uncomfortable in kayaks, but wear them all the time otehrwise. –Chris

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I’m looking for suggestions on whitewater footwear? A couple of people have suggested rock climbing shoes.  Has anyone (anyone who doesn’t work at SGI, that is tried this?  How much do these cost?  How well do they grip both wet and dry rocks?  Are they comfortable enough to wear on long trips (both long days and overnighters)?

Ack!  Expensive, uncomfortable, and not enough of a sole to push against footpegs.  I suppose Five-Tennies would be a possibility — they’re snug sneakers made by the climbing shoe company 5.10, and they have a sole made of climbing-shoe rubber.  Dry rocks they grip fine, wet rocks…a bit better than sneakers, but not great.  They are about $58-$70 depending on sales.  By way of contrast, climbing shoes, which strike me as being the ultimate in inappropriate footwear for rafting or kayaking, are rarely less than $100.   Any other suggestions?  It might be useful to put together a chart based on weather and river conditions, so include that type of information.

What about Tevas (or clones)?  Actual Tevas have soles made by 5.10, my clones (Boulder Sandal Company) are still pretty good. I wear them over Ragg socks when it’s cold (I have the kind that don’t stick something between toes).   — /        Ilana Stern DoD#009 | Whoever first said, "Things are seldom as they

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I’m looking for suggestions on whitewater footwear? My current favorite is the Deep See zippered boot (similar to the Ocean Edge, but better for us folks with wide feet), which is great until you need to scout in slippery gorges.  I even have a larger pair of these that I can use in the colder season when I need to wear extra socks. I’ve also tried standard athletic shoes with various types of socks (from polyester to neoprene), and these are no better for me on rocks or in the river, and aren’t as warm to me. A couple of people have suggested rock climbing shoes.  Has anyone (anyone who doesn’t work at SGI, that is tried this?  How much do these cost?  How well do they grip both wet and dry rocks?  Are they comfortable enough to wear on long trips (both long days and overnighters)? Any other suggestions?  It might be useful to put together a chart based on weather and river conditions, so include that type of information.

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