Question:

I don’t know what the hell is going on with everyone in here! Bloody fights at every turn… long back and forth drivel over the silliest little things.   For crying out loud… be adult.  If you don’t like what someone says… ignore it… you have the ability to alter your filters so you don’t even have to read that persons postings… You don’t always have to have the last word you know…. And nobody really cares who started it. Kath

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know what the hell is going on with everyone in here! Bloody fights at every turn… long back and forth drivel over the silliest little things. For crying out loud… be adult.  If you don’t like what someone says… ignore it… you have the ability to alter your filters so you don’t even have to read that persons postings… You don’t always have to have the last word you know…. And nobody really cares who started it. Kath

You spoilin’ fer a fight, lady?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a hackle? Do I? Excuse me while I look this up. I had to look it up myself. My favorite definition was "a tuft of cock feathers trimming an artificial fishing fly". I sure hope I don’t have one of *those*, especially in an "up" condition! And watch out for that hook! It would certainly make "dick-waving" more interesting for the spectators! Oh. So *that’s* where it goes. I suppose the ‘cock feathers’ should have been a give-away, but I was still thinking farmyard fowl. Maybe I can use my comb to keep it in trim. The tuft. You have feathers? <G

Um, doesn’t everybody? <VBG Quack! pavanne — For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a hackle? Do I? Excuse me while I look this up. I had to look it up myself. My favorite definition was "a tuft of cock feathers trimming an artificial fishing fly". I sure hope I don’t have one of *those*, especially in an "up" condition! And watch out for that hook! It would certainly make "dick-waving" more interesting for the spectators! Oh. So *that’s* where it goes. I suppose the ‘cock feathers’ should have been a give-away, but I was still thinking farmyard fowl. Maybe I can use my comb to keep it in trim. The tuft. You have feathers? <G

Three paragraphs higher than you’re thinking. —          The opinions given above may be mine. They might also            just be what I feel like saying right now, okay?

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I have a hackle? Do I? Excuse me while I look this up. I had to look it up myself. My favorite definition was "a tuft of cock feathers trimming an artificial fishing fly". I sure hope I don’t have one of *those*, especially in an "up" condition! And watch out for that hook! It would certainly make "dick-waving" more interesting for the spectators!

Oh. So *that’s* where it goes. I suppose the ‘cock feathers’ should have been a give-away, but I was still thinking farmyard fowl. Maybe I can use my comb to keep it in trim. The tuft. —          The opinions given above may be mine. They might also            just be what I feel like saying right now, okay?

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I don’t know what the hell is going on with everyone in here! Everyone? mom! kiwigirl is staring at me again!

hahahahahahahaha. whew. you better watch it or you’re dead at recess.   jean

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This, my dear, is ASD.  Where people with varying degrees of mental illness from across the globe cross paths in a matter unprecedented in history.  Where images and projections are given free rein, fed by the mystery of a glowing screen.  Where reality, encountered, rarely satisfies.  Where hearts are broken, behavior repeats itself, needs are laid bare, and a few of us die.  And once in a while, people fall in love, or don’t need to be here anymore.

<gasp Chimera, Where did you get this? i like it. It’s so accurate and… pretty.

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To me it boils down to the difference between being assertive and being aggressive.

Yes!! {jumping up and down] Never, ever, goggle ever (as Maria would say) can get this right. Rosena

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I am kinda curious as to why so many people’s hackles are up and feel the need to fight over a phrase, or a tone in a reply or post.

I have a hackle? Do I? Excuse me while I look this up. <Later Why would anyone think that I had combs for flax or hemp? Odd that. I’d thought it would be something completely different. You know, personal. —          The opinions given above may be mine. They might also            just be what I feel like saying right now, okay?

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or else it ends up with some one telling you they think you are fake like glen told me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – *shrug*  Hey… if this fighting is causing positive changes, helping vent some steam etc… it’s all good!  But from where I’m reading, it’s not, it’s destructive, and people are (A) getting hurt, or (B) getting flamed to hell for all that positive venting. To me it boils down to the difference between being assertive and being aggressive. It’s one thing to assert yourself when there’s a conflict with another person (i.e., stand your ground); it’s entirely another thing to aggress against someone else in a conflict (i.e., go out of your way to hurt that person, as is the case with flames). Trouble is, the boundary between assertiveness and aggression is kinda fuzzy, and depends at least in part on how the various individuals involved interpret a series of exchanges. What I might intend as simply "standing my ground" may be interpreted by the other person as a personal attack, and vice versa. On a related note, I tend to think that anger in and of itself is not destructive. The trick is learning how to express it in a way that does not harm the folks one is angry at. If this group offers some opportunities for learning how to deal with angry emotions in a less destructive manner, then it serves as a force for positive change. Sometimes that happens here, sometimes it doesn’t. And so it goes. Welcome to ASD. James p/e "Vision is both revelation and revolution. It is the call AND the response." — James Benjamin (2000) http://www.geocities.com/the_bokononist/

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*shrug*  Hey… if this fighting is causing positive changes, helping vent some steam etc… it’s all good!  But from where I’m reading, it’s not, it’s destructive, and people are (A) getting hurt, or (B) getting flamed to hell for all that positive venting.

To me it boils down to the difference between being assertive and being aggressive. It’s one thing to assert yourself when there’s a conflict with another person (i.e., stand your ground); it’s entirely another thing to aggress against someone else in a conflict (i.e., go out of your way to hurt that person, as is the case with flames). Trouble is, the boundary between assertiveness and aggression is kinda fuzzy, and depends at least in part on how the various individuals involved interpret a series of exchanges. What I might intend as simply "standing my ground" may be interpreted by the other person as a personal attack, and vice versa. On a related note, I tend to think that anger in and of itself is not destructive. The trick is learning how to express it in a way that does not harm the folks one is angry at. If this group offers some opportunities for learning how to deal with angry emotions in a less destructive manner, then it serves as a force for positive change. Sometimes that happens here, sometimes it doesn’t. And so it goes. Welcome to ASD. James p/e "Vision is both revelation and revolution. It is the call AND the response." — James Benjamin (2000) http://www.geocities.com/the_bokononist/

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Hey Kath, Why not just ignore and filter out the fights? I think fighting is healthy. It brings our our truest emotions to the forefront and always us to sit afterwards and learn so much more about ourselves. Fighting is a normal part of lives, can’t get around it. Sometimes it’s a fun way to release some of that pressure building up inside of us that just needs to get out. Mary Beth

I know that…  I dunno…. guess two reasons I even bothered to post about this… 1 – I’m concerned.    In my nice little world of fairies and laughter… I like to see people getting along, being supportive etc and I don’t know what’s causing the problems, the hostility etc.   2 – I hate to see the wrong people get dragged into fights simply by replying the wrong way or to the wrong post, and yes, selfishly, I am worried that I’ll get flamed to hell and back. *shrug*  Hey… if this fighting is causing positive changes, helping vent some steam etc… it’s all good!  But from where I’m reading, it’s not, it’s destructive, and people are (A) getting hurt, or (B) getting flamed to hell for all that positive venting. I’m not flaming… that’s obvious.  But I am concerned about it.  And if that’s wrong, so be it… some people don’t agree… that’s your right, just as it’s my right to express my concern about it. kath

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it’s just aprt of the asd culture… sometimes people have shitfight. happens in real life, happens here. i do the obvious and just don’t read any of it. it does help, y’know. and, for what it’s worth, i’m quite happy being a kid. stuffed if i’m going to act like an adult just to keep everyone happy! — *** DO NOT ADJUST YOUR MIND; THE FAULT IS WITH REALITY! Adam came first. But then, men always do. God created men because a vibrator couldn’t mow the lawn so you can make me cum — that doesn’t make you jesus icq #20581291

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know what the hell is going on with everyone in here! Bloody fights at every turn… long back and forth drivel over the silliest little things. For crying out loud… be adult.  If you don’t like what someone says… ignore it… you have the ability to alter your filters so you don’t even have to read that persons postings… You don’t always have to have the last word you know…. And nobody really cares who started it. Kath

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AND I forgot to use my own doggone email addy instead of the one the sharer of this computer uses. I’M A YUTZ!!!

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You don’t always have to have the last word you know…. And nobody really cares who started it. Kath You spoilin’ fer a fight, lady? No i’m not.  And I’m not hassling people for posting their feelings.

Oops…fergot to turn on the flashing neon IRONY sign when I posted that.  Mea culpa.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You don’t always have to have the last word you know…. And nobody really cares who started it. Kath You spoilin’ fer a fight, lady? No i’m not.  And I’m not hassling people for posting their feelings. I am kinda curious as to why so many people’s hackles are up and feel the need to fight over a phrase, or a tone in a reply or post. This is a forum for discussion, venting etc… I get that… I just don’t know what’s changed in the atmosphere that so many people are taking things personally and fighting about things. *sigh*  maybe I just don’t get it? Sorry for bothering… kath

yah, there does seem to be quite a bit of squabbling lately. one thing about this place though, is that there is so much going on that, much of the time, it isn’t that hard to decide, "i’m not reading that type of post" — no matter whether your "that type of post" is cat posts or polls or flames — and still have plenty of other posts to read. one trick which has served me well, when i have become tired of reading the fighting, is to look for the threads which look like entwined snakes where a few people are on semi-manic replying binges and just delete those unread. anyway, hope you are doing ok. ferret, postmail

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I don’t know what the hell is going on with everyone in here! Bloody fights at every turn… long back and forth drivel over the silliest little things.   For crying out loud… be adult.  If you don’t like what someone says… ignore it… you have the ability to alter your filters so you don’t even have to read that persons postings… You don’t always have to have the last word you know…. And nobody really cares who started it. Kath

Hey Kath, Why not just ignore and filter out the fights? I think fighting is healthy. It brings our our truest emotions to the forefront and always us to sit afterwards and learn so much more about ourselves. Fighting is a normal part of lives, can’t get around it. Sometimes it’s a fun way to release some of that pressure building up inside of us that just needs to get out. Mary Beth

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You don’t always have to have the last word you know…. And nobody really cares who started it. Kath You spoilin’ fer a fight, lady?

No i’m not.  And I’m not hassling people for posting their feelings. I am kinda curious as to why so many people’s hackles are up and feel the need to fight over a phrase, or a tone in a reply or post. This is a forum for discussion, venting etc… I get that… I just don’t know what’s changed in the atmosphere that so many people are taking things personally and fighting about things. *sigh*  maybe I just don’t get it? Sorry for bothering… kath

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Question:

Anyone got a recommendation for a nice pourvoire no more than 6 hours from Montreal? I’d like to flyfish for trout in May. Some place nice…the wife is coming too. Thanks!

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<<Anyone got a recommendation for a nice pourvoire no more than 6 hours from Montreal? Pourvoire?  Housekeeping cabins?   Dave LaCourse

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Howdy from Quebec: I can recommend "Pourvoirie Real Masse" in St-Zenon. It is located 2 hours from Montreal. It is a great place for easy fishing an a happy wife. All the lakes are stocked. The food is fantastic. If you are interested I can give you more information. Could be a little late for reservation for may 1999… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Anyone got a recommendation for a nice pourvoire no more than 6 hours from Montreal? I’d like to flyfish for trout in May. Some place nice…the wife is coming too. Thanks!

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dave –  i think "pourvoire" is one of them fancy words frequently used by Jim Roberts (a/k/a pamlico jim)  after an evening at the Villa Roma Bar, (jim begins talkin some kind of foreign language after a couple hours), ‘cept he pronounces it "pervoir"…as in…"damn, ya’ll, i think that there fella’s a pervoir"…you don’t want to put jim in any pervoir cabin, i assure you…  (seems there ought to be a pourvoire closer than 6 hours from montreal though) …course, it might be that the word really means "i see you pour forth" or "i watch you urinate", in which case the guy using it is a "pervoir"…but it might be that somebody simply misspelled the thing and meant "Pourboire", which is a tip for a good drink, which is just fine with me, and jim i suppose. (sorry to intrude, but the whiskey got me goin and i just couldn’t help myself…) jeff

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Howdy from Quebec: I can recommend "Pourvoirie Real Masse" in St-Zenon. It is located 2 hours from Montreal. It is a great place for easy fishing an a happy wife. All the lakes are stocked. The food is fantastic. If you are interested I can give you more information. Could be a little late for reservation for may 1999… Anyone got a recommendation for a nice pourvoire no more than 6 hours from Montreal? I’d like to flyfish for trout in May. Some place nice…the wife is coming too. Thanks!

For those who dont know what "pourvoirie" means… "Outfitter"  Michel

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well hell…if he’d said "pourvoirie", we’d all have understood…but he said "pourvoire"…aarrgg…don’t you just hate it when that happens… jeff

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Got a web site I could look at? Also, I don’t like boats much. Can I use my waders here? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Howdy from Quebec: I can recommend "Pourvoirie Real Masse" in St-Zenon. It is located 2 hours from Montreal. It is a great place for easy fishing an a happy wife. All the lakes are stocked. The food is fantastic. If you are interested I can give you more information. Could be a little late for reservation for may 1999… Anyone got a recommendation for a nice pourvoire no more than 6 hours from Montreal? I’d like to flyfish for trout in May. Some place nice…the wife is coming too. Thanks!

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With Real Masse you will be fishing in lakes. Fishing is from 8 am to 5 pm.  Traveling from lodge to lake is by golf cart…. they clean and pack  your fish… followed by a "gastronomic meal"…. This is the place where fishermen take there non fishing wife… not the wild canadian outback. If this is not what you are looking I can give you the phone number of "Sentier Chasse et Peche" (Or I could mail you a copy). "Sentier chasse et peche" is a hunting and fishing magazine here in Quebec. Finally I can also suggest to contact Orvis fly fishing shop in Montreal. They can provide information. They also organize fishing trips.   Boutique Salmo Nature (Orvis) 110 McGill Montreal 514-871-8447 Regards – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Got a web site I could look at? Also, I don’t like boats much. Can I use my waders here? Howdy from Quebec: I can recommend "Pourvoirie Real Masse" in St-Zenon. It is located 2 hours from Montreal. It is a great place for easy fishing an a happy wife. All the lakes are stocked. The food is fantastic. If you are interested I can give you more information. Could be a little late for reservation for may 1999… Anyone got a recommendation for a nice pourvoire no more than 6 hours from Montreal? I’d like to flyfish for trout in May. Some place nice…the wife is coming too. Thanks!

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Question:

Do you know good river like Big Horn? I came from Italy to USA in August for flyfishing holiday. My trip start in Oregon for Wyoming and go-back. I know only the Umpqua and the Deschutes, the Big  Horn and Shoshone Ok for C&R. Thank you for informations Giovanni Bartolozzi  Il Martin Pescatore Mosca Club

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I live in Bend, Oregon.  I can help you with lots of questions on fly fishing in Central Oregon.  I mostly do stillwater fishing. But can get answers to any questions you might have.  chow  gjbend

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Will be in bend 1st week of April. Do you think davis Lake will be accessable and is a float tube adequate?

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I think thats what the rumor is that Davis wood be accessable April 1.  I have my doubts tho.  I fished Fall River Tues. and the parking lot still has 2 feet of snow and had to park on the hwy.  Fall River and Crooked might be an option.  Actually, Chickahomany(sp) should be thawed and  ready too.  Good luck.

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Geeez….would   not wood.  Saw that as I sent.  :(

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How was fall river, BWO’s?

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If the weathers keeps warm you might try BWO.  I used a #20 black midge with cdc wing that worked great. The fish were lightly nibbleing at the surface so just drifted fly about 2 inches below the surface.  If you have ever fished there you know what its like to watch the fish suck up your fly.

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Question:

Rick, Interesting note.  I can’t help much – this is my first trip up north.  We are going to Fireside Lodge near Sioux Lookout.   It is a drive in but is the only lodge on a group of 8 lakes.  I had initially planned on a fly-in but decided to opt for a lodge this first trip.  I can recommend Uichi Lake Lodge – my Uncle and his friends have been there a number of times and speak very highly of it.  He says the food is great, the fishing is great, and the hosts are great people.  It is a little pricier than Fireside Lodge but only slightly.  It is not an outpost, where you are the only one on the lake, but you do have the luxury of having all meals prepared. Good Luck George

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Last year I went on a trip with Nestor Falls Outfitters.  We had a great trip.  If you are looking for someone, I suggest you give them a try.  The person I went with has been using them for several years and returns year after year.  Good Luck.

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Rick, I went on a fly in trip with Lee Cole back in 1992.  Your experience bouught back some memories.  The fishing was fine, but the life was too rough for us. From now on we go on the American Plan at a lodge.  This year we are going to a new place on Wabatongushi Lake.  If you know anything about this lake let me know. good luck,

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Rick, i found your note interesting, mainly because myself and a group of guys are going on a fly-in next summer.  We were at this place ten years ago.  It is very remote and we never used live bait.  But without bait we still caught tons of fish.  For an example while catching larger northern (pike) I would put the butt of my fishing rod in my stomach to gain leverage.  Upon returning from that trip I had a large bruise on my stomach from catching so many sizable fish.  That’s what you call contact fishing! My best advice is to go earlier, mid to late June.  And to go as remote as you can. Keep me on your list of contacts  I’ll be interested in what you find out.

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Ive been in on ten various fly ins dating back to 1979.  I had to laugh at the Lee Cole story because Ive had other guys steer me away from his operation with the same complaints you had.  My best fishing by FAR has been up around the Red Lake/Sioux Lookout area.  Ive fished a few lakes out of Wawa/ Hawk Junction etc. and frankly believe that the gene pool has been so depleted up there that the quality will not improve for a long time, if ever.  Youve got to drive the extra miles before flying in to separate the men from the boys.  If it doesnt hurt a little to get there you havent gone far enough.  The reward is worth the extra effort.

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I would reccommend earlier than that, we go up for opening day of Walley, 3rd sat in may, and this beats all bugs, but, there is a 1 in 5 chance you will hit ice then – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rick, i found your note interesting, mainly because myself and a group of guys are going on a fly-in next summer.  We were at this place ten years ago.  It is very remote and we never used live bait.  But without bait we still caught tons of fish.  For an example while catching larger northern (pike) I would put the butt of my fishing rod in my stomach to gain leverage.  Upon returning from that trip I had a large bruise on my stomach from catching so many sizable fish.  That’s what you call contact fishing! My best advice is to go earlier, mid to late June.  And to go as remote as you can. Keep me on your list of contacts  I’ll be interested in what you find out.

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Question:

We have been promoting our software on the Internet for the past six months but are starting to run out of ideas. We have carried out the following: Search engine registration Newsgroup postings Link requests on related sites Limited banner advertising (0 hits) Is there any other form of marketing that can be used ? — Datefind-db YEAR 2000 Database and Spreadsheet Impact Analysis and Testing Software http://www.astuk.com – Download a FREE trial copy now and check your PCs

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   Chris    My first reaction is that there’s something missing!!    Not ‘what next?’. But, where would you like to go?    So. Who are you trying to sell to?!    Archie Gatekeeper: ‘My friend Archie, who lives here, is a good man. To speak with him you will need to know that, [com uk arde dear co demon net] is [T E C H D O G]. All good people can find archie at C.O.D.E’

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We have been promoting our software on the Internet for the past six months but are starting to run out of ideas. We have carried out the following: Search engine registration Newsgroup postings Link requests on related sites Limited banner advertising (0 hits) Is there any other form of marketing that can be used ?

What about cross-promotion? You can print your website on all the papers you issue, e.g. on your brochures, your price lists, on your letterhead, your calling cards, your invoices, etc. In return you can offer your brochures online. Phone:          +49-172-7412842 / +49-2162-58154 Fax:            +49-2162-58153

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Are your potential customers connected on the internet? Maybe… call some of them and ask them why they not or when they will buy your program? Perry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We have been promoting our software on the Internet for the past six months but are starting to run out of ideas. We have carried out the following: Search engine registration Newsgroup postings Link requests on related sites Limited banner advertising (0 hits) Is there any other form of marketing that can be used ?

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We have been promoting our software on the Internet for the past six months but are starting to run out of ideas. We have carried out the following: Search engine registration Newsgroup postings Link requests on related sites Limited banner advertising (0 hits) Is there any other form of marketing that can be used ?

<snip A site should be promoted off-line as well as on-line. Maybe you could use some of your advertising dollars to post small ads in market-related magazines or newsletters telling about your web site. (hint) You can even test how these ads are pulling by putting a specific web page in the ad … a page other than your home page designed only to receive visitors from that particular ad. — Bob Pardue, Advertising Specialties Learn To Increase Your Bottom-Line Profits Using Promotional Products. Free Reports and a Free Marketing-Zine. Visit me at: <http://www.theadpro.com

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We have been promoting our software on the Internet for the past six months but are starting to run out of ideas. Then you’re not thinking hard enough. I won’t give you the answers, but I’ll lead you to one of them by getting you thinking about it. The web can not only help customers find you but also help you find customers. Datefind-db YEAR 2000 Database and Spreadsheet Impact Analysis and Testing Software http://www.astuk.com – Download a FREE trial copy now and check your PCs Can I assume the Y2K product is what you’re selling? If so, there are thousands of potential customers out there for you. Many won’t beat a path to your door yet, so you’ll have to beat a path to theirs to get them to come in. Fly-by-night e-mail doesn’t work. Involvement does. Even a $500 lure on a $10,000 fishing pole won’t catch diddley if you don’t work it. If you were a person with a Y2K question, what would you be doing to find the answer, the solution or help? Put yourself in that person’s place and track them as you would any plains buffalo. Hint #1: Who is Peter de Jaeger and why am I asking you if you’ve heard of him/know him? Hint #2: How did I find the following? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Year 2000 to present challenges by Staff Sgt. Gerald P. Sonnenberg     SCOTT AIR FORCE BASE, Ill. (AFNS) — The next century is a mere four years away.  And as it gets closer, predictions of flood, famine and other disasters by people such as the French clairvoyant, Nostradamus, are on the minds of many.     Though frightening, those predictions are merely possibilities.     There is at least one prediction for the new millennium so likely that when it will occur has been narrowed down to the last second.     "The more I think about the year 2000 the more I realize the impact it will have on all of us at work and at home," said Gary Kuhn, an information systems specialist at the Air Force C4 Agency here.     Kuhn is referring to faulty date logic in computer systems.  This is a computer’s inability to handle the date change from 1999 to 2000 because systems were designed eliminating the first two digits of the year in software essential to the functions of thousands of computers.

Good luck! Best, Mac

Response:

Chris, Were your postings to newsgroups taking about a tool for 2000? Or did you talk about a way for Systems Integrators to offer a new service to their customers? I didn’t understand the meaning of your offering (2000 impact analysis and testing?) until I visited your WebSite. I find your product as an interesting and usefull idea, though… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We have been promoting our software on the Internet for the past six months but are starting to run out of ideas.

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Question:

        I’ll second the Wekiva River Trip from Katie’s Landing.  Did that in a private boat last year with their shuttling….  Their’s is a good and responsible operation.  If you haven’t seen Florida rivers much this one’s a good intro.  I saw all the FL species of herons, plus limpkins, etc. on this run.         Joe P.

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If you want to drive a little further south (typically warmer as well) to North Palm Beach, you can rent Kayaks from The Adventure Times. They have regular guided tours to the Everglades and other local spots including intracoastal and ocean Call em at 407 881-7218 I’m going to be in Orlando the first week in January and am looking for paddling opportunities within say a 60 mile radius.  I won’t be taking a boat so I’m interested in outfitters or state parks that rent equipment. Thanks. Jason

Bob Denton President Gulf Stream International Boynton Beach, Florida Manufacturers of Sink the Stink The Water Sport Deodorizer That Really Works! For information on Boynton Beach, FL Scuba: http://www.flinet.com/gulfstream/scuba.html

Response:

I go to the Cape Canaveral area often.  Fishing for redfish on the flats there is nice.  There is a non-powered only area north of 528 on the Bannanna river also.  You can rent from Extreme Sports, but they are not on the way, being about twenty south from the Cape.  Patrick AFB also rents to military types.  But all they have is small sit on tops.   If you want somethind exciting, the St Johns river, which runs from near the coast where I live, North through Deland.  The Manatees winter at Blue Springs by Deland.  They rent boats there. I’ve gone just North of lake Washington near the coast.  It is very small at that point, so all you will see is the occasional airboater.  The gators there are the biggest I’ve seen.  I fly helicopters for a living, so I’ve seen plenty.  They will probably be staying under the water in early Jan.  In late Feb, they are laying out.  Seeing them on the shore is not scary.  What is is when they shoot down the twenty foot wide stream right under your boat, leaving a wake like the Creature from the black lagoon. I will only take my big two person there, as my 14′ single might lead a big bull gator to think "Yea, I can take him".  

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I’m going to be in Orlando the first week in January and am looking for … Jason

PalnJones is right on with Wekiva.  This is a fantastic paddle (for Florida-no ww).  There is a Wekiva State Park & they rent canoes (not sure about kayaks) through a concessionaire (Kings Landings Canoe).   Kings Landing is the Place to put in and go to the Marina (I’ve been, I had my own kayak with me).  Fabulous river (for Florida).  There is a kayak/canoe/outdoor store in Orlando called something like Travel Country – in yellow pages under canoes – they can help with directions & maybe rentals.  It is 10-20 mile paddle depending where you go and the Kings Landing folks will run shuttle for you. kevin

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I’m going to be in Orlando the first week in January and am looking for paddling opportunities within say a 60 mile radius.  I won’t be taking a boat so I’m interested in outfitters or state parks that rent equipment.

Jason: I would second the recommendation David made about Wekiva Springs; just north of Orlando but literally a wilderness area along the edges of the city.  Wekiva State Park has a well stocked canoe livery and there is also a private company called Katies Wekiva River Landing that rents canoes.  Katies has routes of 6, 9, 12 or 19 miles.  I’ve hiked all along Wekiva and have seen the operation…very professional.  However, I personally have not taken the trips.  Never heard anything bad though.. Katies Info: Toll free from Orlando 628-1482      Other calls 407 332-4470 Ranger station Wekiwa River State Park    407 884-2009 If kayaking is your game, Travel Country Outdoors in Orlando 407 831-0777 does not rent anything but they do have a half day guided trip to Cape Canaveral NWR.  Another kayaking outfitter that does half-day guided trips (maybe rentals) is Agua Azul in Clearwater (near Tampa) 813 530-7555.  They have one trip "closer" to Orlando that is on the historic Hillsborough River out of the Tampa area.  It takes us 1.25 hours to get there from where we live near Disney.  My wife and I have done both of these trips and from a purely novice point of view had a GREAT TIME! Happy Holidays! Robert   Orlando

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I’m going to be in Orlando the first week in January and am looking for paddling opportunities within say a 60 mile radius.  I won’t be taking a boat so I’m interested in outfitters or state parks that rent equipment. Thanks. Jason

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I’m going to be in Orlando the first week in January and am looking for paddling opportunities within say a 60 mile radius.  I won’t be taking a boat so I’m interested in outfitters or state parks that rent equipment. Thanks. Jason

There is a nice flat water (what else would it be) paddle on the Wekiva River, putting on near Apopka.  The water is crystal clear, and we saw alligators (small) the time we did it. There is at least one canoe livery, but I don’t remember the name.  Check the Yellow Pages. David

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Question:

I may be relocating to Baltimore sometime this summer. Are there any good fly-fishing clubs there that I could hook up with? — Stefan M.   Arlington, Texas Web Page: http://rampages.onramp.net/~smarc

Hi Stefan Call the Federation of Fly Fishers at 800-618-0808 or visit their web sight at http://www.wsa.com/ool/fff.html. They can provide information about the affiliate club closest to you. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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I may be relocating to Baltimore sometime this summer. Are there any good fly-fishing clubs there that I could hook up with? — Stefan M.   Arlington, Texas Web Page: http://rampages.onramp.net/~smarc

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Question:

However, there are tons and tons of pre-tied flies sold.  I see folks buying them all the time.  I suspect that a possibly relevant follow-up question is to ask what % of the flies that you use did you tie and what % did you buy. I know that there are lots of folks that buy lots of flies.  However, I do not.

I – and again, everyone I fish with – tie *all* of my/their own flies, whether fresh water or salt water, dry fly/emerger/nymph/popper/diver/whatever… But then, I’ve been a dyed-in-the-wool flyfisher for 29 years, and everyone I fish with has been flyfishing for 15 to 50 years… I agree that all those flies you see binned up in the shops *must* get sold to someone, but them’s ain’t us ;^) /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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: Anybody know the percentage of fly fisherman who tie their own flies? : I’d be interested to hear your comments on the percentage. I’d be even : interested in the percentage of your fishing buddies who tie their own. : Thanks, Craig, all the fly fishers I know tie a percentage off their flies. Of these only one is a 100% "my fly only type" the rest will swap buy tie as the need arises. Some guys refuse to tie dries, other won’t tie (or fish in public nymphs. Thats about 8 fellas that spring to mind. hooroo steve ps Perhaps an ancilliary question : "How many only fish with their self tied flies 100%?"

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Anybody know the percentage of fly fisherman who tie their own flies? I’d be interested to hear your comments on the percentage. I’d be even interested in the percentage of your fishing buddies who tie their own. Thanks,

Craig, Of the five people (4 males & 1 female) that I fish with on a regular basis, three of us tie our own .                                         Steve

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Most of the people I fish with tie their own and then borrow some flies when an individual seems to have the "hot pattern" for the day. I would guess that most of the flies fished in my area are tied by foreign teenage girls however. One company is reported to sell 700,000 dozen this year. That is a lot of flies and represents only the largest importer.

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Anybody know the percentage of fly fisherman who tie their own flies?
I’d be interested to hear your comments on the percentage. I’d be even interested in the percentage of your fishing buddies who tie their own.
Thanks,
Craig,
Of the five people (4 males & 1 female) that I fish with on a regular basis, three of us tie our own .
                                   Steve

Out of 5 other fly fishing buddies (6 including myself) I am the only one who ties flies. Darryl Hayashida

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: : I know that there are lots of folks that buy lots of flies.  However, : I do not. : I – and again, everyone I fish with – tie *all* of my/their own flies, whether I buy a fly or two every now and then.  I may see a particularly well-tied one that I’ll keep as a "model", or I’ll get something recommended for local conditions.  But most of the flies I buy are for "models". — Laboratory for Applied Logic    Dept. of Computer Science University of Idaho             www: http://www.cs.uidaho.edu/~foster

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Anybody know the percentage of fly fisherman who tie their own flies? I’d be interested to hear your comments on the percentage. I’d be even interested in the percentage of your fishing buddies who tie their own. Thanks,

I’m a member of a small fishing club in Sweden with approx. 250 members All of them are flytiers. We have yearly studying circles in fly tying for all ages so we can keep up the craftmanship of fly tying. So… all my flyfishing friends are tying there own. Best flytying regards Lars Elfner

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I have only been ff for three years now but I can say that in that time I have only bought maybe 15 flies, total. A month after I started fishing I taught myself to tie. Since then the only time I buy flies is when I need info on a hatch from a local sporting shop ( I have only done this twice). I tie flys for everyone that I go with which is about three different people. On the water, I think most of the weekend hobbiests buy flies, while the Flyfishermen tie them. Eg. on a stocked river that I frequent, all the ff people I talk to buy their flies, while on Hat creek, just the thought of a store bought fly would give you a bad look. As a percentage I would say that more are bought, just by the fact that there are more overpopulated rivers than there are ff rivers.

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The way I do it is. I tie the flies that are known to catch fish in this area. I buy one or two of few patterns that work well in the surrounding areas just in case I get to go out of town.

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Anybody know the percentage of fly fisherman who tie their own flies? I’d be interested to hear your comments on the percentage. I’d be even interested in the percentage of your fishing buddies who tie their own. Thanks,

Half my ff-ing friends tie their own, the other half buy them from me! I bought my flies the first time I set out, then started tying very soon after.  That first batch was the only ones I ever bought. My guess is that most the folks that buy commercially ties flies probably do lots of other types of fishing too, and are not completely engrossed in fly fishing.  I can’t see laying out all the money that I see some people do buying flys.  Yea, I know how much I laid out on my tying equipment and supplies, but that’s different!  :-) Most of that stuff was paid for by selling the stuff I tied.   A sunny day,      a box of midges,         and a wandering stream…   Man, this MUST be heaven!   <    Steve Kulpa    <<

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Perhaps an ancilliary question : "How many only fish with their self tied flies 100%?"

Pretty much everyone I fish with fits this category. Most of us fish with rods we built ourselves too. Cost is a big factor, but I think it’s more of a natural curiosity we have, as most of us tie a box of standards like clousers, then set to tying more "experimental" patterns to imitate mackerel, pogies, eels, etc. Sometimes the winter in Maine seems so long that building a new rod or tying a mess of flies is the only way to stay sane. Well that and writing about yuppies on the net…. :-

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Perhaps an ancilliary question : "How many only fish with their self tied flies 100%?"

That’s me.  I’ve never caught a trout on a fly that I didn’t tie.  Why bother paying $2.00-$3.00 for a fly when you can tie your own for much less and can make a much better looking fly in most cases.  Economics are a main issue here. I am in college and I couldn’t afford to have a well stocked fly box if I didn’t tie the flys myself.  Also the satisfaction that comes from tying your own fly and then catching a trout with it is incredible. Jake

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2 out of 5 tie.                         jamie

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I fish with five guys on a regular basis. Out of these five, four of them tie their own flies. Only two of us tie flies for the situations we encounter. I’m currently tying salmon fly patterns for my trips to the Deschutes River. last Friday night we slaughtered ‘em on size 4 red patterns! Bill Ruddick

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<snip : However, there are tons and tons of pre-tied flies sold.  I see folks buying : them all the time.  I suspect that a possibly relevant follow-up question : is to ask what % of the flies that you use did you tie and what % did you : buy. : I know that there are lots of folks that buy lots of flies.  However, : I do not. A primary reason for buying flies is to get a quick selection of local favourites. New water? – locate a local shop, shoot the bull with the owner, get some local tips, buy a few flies  - both the get a head start on matching local conditions and as a way of "thanking" him for his advice. I tie almost all of my flies, but I haven’t got to the point where I take my tying supplies with me on a trip (my van won’t pull two trailers  ) — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

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I tie most of my own, the exception being those special hatches and unforseen occasions. Then, I’ll buy one or two at a time. My four friends are the same way. I have to add that I guess the people on this list would not be a representative sample of the flyfishing world. –sean

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For what it’s worth, I think they’re two seperate activities.  Its just nice that they happen to be related.  As Dave mentioned, most of the people I fish with tie their own flys.   I buy some (I cant tie Wulffs worth a damn) and I occasionally I find some that are different.   By-the-way: I saw a box full of excellent flys this past week They were tied by a shop in New Hartford Conn.  (Classic and Custom Fly Shop – I think) Very nice examples of Conn hendricksons, emergers and some of the old standards tied ‘catskill’ style.  I dont think the fish care all that much, but these were really first rate.

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i tie my own. i bought four or five when i got into this insanity, figured i might as well wade into the deep water, bought a vise, a bobbin, and a small fortune in supplies and have been saving the big bucks ever since.  everytime i see a new pattern, i buy a hundred dollars worth of chicken necks and other assorted parts, (not to mention artificial stuff that sells for who knows what an ounce.  as soon as the ups man leave, i head to my fly room and tie five of ‘em.  hmmm, that would be twenty bucks per.  don’t tell my wife, i just hit her up for a hoffman #2 cream for father’s day!. seriously, i wouldn’t buy a fly now.  i can’t fish worth a damn, but my flies are much better than most of the ones you see in the bins.

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Just thought I’d delurk for a moment and post this in response to this continuing thread.  I enjoy fly-fishing and fly-tying.  Tying my own flies is an extension of fly-fishing and provides a great way for me to relax from my day job.  Since I primarily fish for trout and freshwater fish, I try to tie flies to match the hatches on the VA streams.  Though I don’t fly-fish for salmon often, I tie full-dress salmon flies.  Hunting down materials over the past ten years has added greatly to the enjoyment of tying these flies. I’ll offer this opinion of mass-produced flies.  Often they are produced only for the "fly-fisher," not for the fish.  Though I try to tie flies which match the naturals, the flies in the shops often have too much hackle or do not balance correctly on the water.  Also, many of these flies are not produced in the US, Canada, or the UK. (I’m saying this because these are my fishing areas.)  The flies just aren’t tied correctly and they do not stand up to the wear and tear of the fish.  I also think that regional flies outperform mass-produced ones. For example, a Grey Ghost streamer by a well-known company.  The traditional Steven’s dressing is not followed and the flies are sloppily constructed.  A friend and I were fishing some of the Appalachian lakes and his flies were not holding up for more than one or two strikes. In short, I’d rather tie my own flies for a lot of reasons.  I also like tying for my fishing buddies and helping them and others with flies.  It greatly enriches my fishing experience. DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed herein are not those of my employer. Loral Federal Systems                                         (301) 470-1957

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Anybody know the percentage of fly fisherman who tie their own flies? I’d be interested to hear your comments on the percentage. I’d be even interested in the percentage of your fishing buddies who tie their own. Thanks, I can’t think of *any* of my flyfishing buddies that *don’t* tie their own.

However, there are tons and tons of pre-tied flies sold.  I see folks buying them all the time.  I suspect that a possibly relevant follow-up question is to ask what % of the flies that you use did you tie and what % did you buy. I know that there are lots of folks that buy lots of flies.  However, I do not. -tgades

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Anybody know the percentage of fly fisherman who tie their own flies? I’d be interested to hear your comments on the percentage. I’d be even interested in the percentage of your fishing buddies who tie their own. Thanks,

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Can’t give you an accurate percentage, but I would be willing to bet anyone who has been fly fishing for more than a year or so probably has started tying their own.  All fly fishermen I know do their own tying (and THAT numbers around 25) Greg

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Anybody know the percentage of fly fisherman who tie their own flies? I’d be interested to hear your comments on the percentage. I’d be even interested in the percentage of your fishing buddies who tie their own. Thanks,

I can’t think of *any* of my flyfishing buddies that *don’t* tie their own. (Hey Harlan, do *you* know anyone that doesn’t tie their own?) /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <           "Read this and nobody gets hurt"           < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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Question:

Has anyone fished the West Fork of the San Gabriel (Southern Ca.)  lately? I see they are planting trout weekly.  If you have (fished) what are the taking , where is the best area etc.                   Thanks, Becky

Actually, Becky, they only plant the lower section of the West Fork. The catch & release, artificial lure w/ single barbless hook only section begins at the second bridge upstream from the parking area and it is wild trout only. This is the area you want to visit. In fact, bring a bike and you can easily cover the entire 5 miles or so of managed water. I haven’t been up this year yet but I would guess that conditions would be great. Plenty of water! In the past I’ve had success fishing just about any dry fly. I knew a Becky Marsh who worked for Nordstrom??? Tim

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Becky, Follow the advice of the last message, take lots of Beadheaed nymphs In #14-16 in olive or brown, fish soft hackle wet flies (March Brown, Partridge & Orange or Starling and Herl, carry some #16-18 Elk Caddis, a few Royal Wulfs, California Mosquito, the good old Gold Ribbed Hare’s Ear Nymph #14-16 and a few Pheasant Tail Nymphs in the same size.  Use 9ft leader tipped with 6x and cast everywhere. This is a good stream to learn on. Get a bike, pack a lunch and enjoy it any month  of the year.  I’ve fished the West Fork for almost 20 years.  Sometimes it’s hot and sometimes it’s not…never give up on it, though.  It’s a great little stream if given half the chance!

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Has anyone fished the West Fork of the San Gabriel (Southern Ca.)  lately?  I see they are planting trout weekly.  If you have (fished) what are the taking , where is the best area etc.                   Thanks, Becky

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Question:

 I think I have to decide between an Orvis Western Freestone (Rocky  Mountain Series) and the Sage GFL 590 DS.  Any suggestions as to the  better pole/value? I own a 9′- 5wt. Orvis Freestone, and although I don’t have a Sage Discovery, I do own several Sage RPL’s and without a doubt I would recommend a Sage. I find the Orvis rod very tip-heavy w/ a "clubby" feel. My son won’t even use my Orvis rod anymore, I had to build a Sage for him from a "second " blank.         Don’t worry about the warranties. My friend broke the tip on his Sage and they replaced it very swiftly for about $25. Most people find Sage’s customer service to be very good.

  EVERYONE,     Different strokes for different folks…..!  Is there a *best* airplane, automobile, computer, flyrod…..? tight_lines_&_clean_waters_in_95′ steve drossel advocate for the AOFFI (Atlantic Ocean FlyFishing Initiative)

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 I [gulp] work for an Orvis dealer. Frank, the above being the case, perhaps you could enlighten me about the new series due out from Orvis in the spring.  It’s supposed to be on the cheapo side, to compete with the Cortland 444 packages, maybe $150. What’s the word on it? thanks floete

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Bryant) writes: I think I have to decide between an Orvis Western Freestone (Rocky Mountain Series) and the Sage GFL 590 DS.  Any suggestions as to the better pole/value?

I’ve had  a Sage Discovery 6-7 weight for 4 years, and just bought a 4-wt RPL.  I think the world of Sage, comparing friend’s Cortlands and Loomis rods in similar weights, the Sages seem quicker and much less strain to cast.   I wouldn’t put too much weight on Orvis’s 25-year guarantee unless you plan on breaking one.  The key thing is, how do they compare when you cast them?  And some fly shops will even let you take out a loaner.  I found a fly shop that let me take out a loaner Sage RPL for a few days, even though their Sage rep said he’d never of anyone doing that.  Good luck, Bill Uyeki

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 (Robert Bryant) writes:  I think I have to decide between an Orvis Western Freestone (Rocky  Mountain Series) and the Sage GFL 590 DS.  Any suggestions as to the  better pole/value? I own a 9′- 5wt. Orvis Freestone, and although I don’t have a Sage Discovery, I do own several

Sage RPL’s and without a doubt I would recommend a Sage. I find the Orvis rod very tip-heavy w/ a "clubby" feel. My son won’t even use my Orvis rod anymore, I had to build a Sage for him from a "second " blank.          Don’t worry about the warranties. My friend broke the tip on his Sage and they replaced it very swiftly for about $25. Most people find Sage’s customer service to be very good. Yours virtually, Gary W. Godden

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I think I have to decide between an Orvis Western Freestone (Rocky Mountain Series) and the Sage GFL 590 DS.  Any suggestions as to the better pole/value? The comparisons are below.         Orvis                           Sage         $230                            $180         9′                              9′         3 1/8 oz.                       3 3/8 oz.         2 pc                            2 pc         25 yr. replacement              Standard warranty Please help me make this decision.  If you have either of these poles, please, how do you like it/them.  My local dealer, who sells both, likes the Sage pole.  I like the 25 year replacement promise of the Orvis.  My wife likes whatever is cheaper! Thanks for any help you can give me. —           Bob                   "Computers will reduce the amount of           Moss Landing, Ca.       paper consumed."

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -(Robert Bryant) writes: I think I have to decide between an Orvis Western Freestone (Rocky Mountain Series) and the Sage GFL 590 DS.  Any suggestions as to the better pole/value? The comparisons are below.    Orvis                           Sage    $230                            $180    9′                              9′    3 1/8 oz.                       3 3/8 oz.    2 pc                            2 pc    25 yr. replacement              Standard warranty Please help me make this decision.  If you have either of these poles, please, how do you like it/them.  My local dealer, who sells both, likes the Sage pole.  I like the 25 year replacement promise of the Orvis.  My wife likes whatever is cheaper!

The cost difference is $50.  If the Sage rod breaks, it can be fixed, at a price, and then you are left with a broken Sage rod that has been repaired. The broken Sage rod that has been repaired may, after the repair, cast as before, but generally not. I don’t care how good the repair job is- break=repair=a weakness that won’t go away and that may break again. Not to mention the worry associated with not having a 25 year rod breakage warranty. On the other hand, if the Orvis rod breaks, it is sent back to Orvis who generally replaces the entire broken section rather than ‘repair’ the break. I know because I [gulp] work for an Orvis dealer.  I’ve even seen dealers swap out new rods right off the rack for broken ones.  The Orvis rod repair receipts that I see cover costs in the range of $10-$50+. All the customer pays for is shipping back to the dealer, or the cost of shipping to Orvis if you don’t have a dealer in your area. It’s funny, but it seems that flyfishers east of the Mississippi choose Orvis rods and those to the west choose Sage. I’ve casted both in similar line weight, length and taper and I like them both for particular reasons-like maybe the Sage finish is nicer or the Orvis handle is better or whatever. Bottom line is that breakage factor and Orvis offers a nice escape hatch and Sage does not.  But you have to buy the rod that suits you and performs correctly for the things you want to do with it. Frank

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