Question:

Those damn ducks! Yesterday around 6:00 p.m. I finally finished getting the boat ready for guests for the OpSail parade.  Hosed off the finger piers real nice, too. The local ducks must prefer a clean head because they jumped right up and christened my neatly-Flemished dockline.

   The damn crows "christened" Stinky’s new seat – which was inside the boat, with the top up. They either went inside the boat, let one go, and said "whew! something stinks in here!" and left, or did a Luke Skywalker dive-bomb and pull-up in the side window. Lloyd Sumpter "Stinky" Fibrecraft 14 — It’s better to be at the dock, wishing you were at sea, than at sea, wishing you were at the dock.

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or you could just feed ‘em Alka-Seltzer…..   In our years of boating we’ve tried fake owls and snakes, wind socks and conical piling tops but there seems to be no permanent solution to these gulls who leave huge droppings on our clean and polished decks. Then they fly by overhead laughing at us!  There is no solution to the problem but now there is revenge.  A colleague has developed a shareware PC game called "Gullblaster".  It features rendered seashore scenes and sounds and a sky littered with the enemy seagulls.  Now you can blast them out of the sky without legal implications.   There is also a screen saver called "Picture Saver" available on Steve’s web site.  It is a "slide show" viewer that allows you to display your favorite seashore scenes or boating and fishing pictures that are saved on your PC as graphic images.  Check it out at:   Freeware and shareware screen savers, games, and utilities   If you have problems with this as a link, just paste this site into your viewer’s location window – http://webshed.webjump.com/   —   Regards,   John G.   —   NJ Coastal and ICW – Somers Point / Ocean City

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In our years of boating we’ve tried fake owls and snakes, wind socks and conical piling tops but there seems to be no permanent solution to these gulls who leave huge droppings on our clean and polished decks. Then they fly by overhead laughing at us!  There is no solution to the problem but now there is revenge.  A colleague has developed a shareware PC game called "Gullblaster".  It features rendered seashore scenes and sounds and a sky littered with the enemy seagulls.  Now you can blast them out of the sky without legal implications. There is also a screen saver called "Picture Saver" available on Steve’s web site.  It is a "slide show" viewer that allows you to display your favorite seashore scenes or boating and fishing pictures that are saved on your PC as graphic images.  Check it out at: Freeware and shareware screen savers, games, and utilities If you have problems with this as a link, just paste this site into your viewer’s location window – http://webshed.webjump.com/ — Regards, John G. — NJ Coastal and ICW – Somers Point / Ocean City

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You know they taste like chicken!!

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Those damn ducks! Yesterday around 6:00 p.m. I finally finished getting the boat ready for guests for the OpSail parade.  Hosed off the finger piers real nice, too. The local ducks must prefer a clean head because they jumped right up and christened my neatly-Flemished dockline.

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Question:

Hi Possibly head down to the everglages for a few days. Trying to plan ahead for the hols. hope to hear from someone soon. Neil

Bad idea, mosquito city. go to the west coast orthe keys. Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach "The only people who have any business fishing are  young boys and married men. Everyone else should be  out getting laid." …I said that

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"The only people who have any business fishing are  young boys and married men. Everyone else should be  out getting laid." …I said that

You’ve not met our beloved barrister from Rowan County. A man of many talents he can, and has, combined business, fishing, being married AND getting laid. Or… he used to could. — Ken Fortenberry

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Head over to the Oak Hill area. Go by way of Merritt Island. Go to Titusville, across the causeway left to Haul Over Canal and just pick a spot somewhere on the route. Check a map of the area, you’ll see. John Popp in grass dead Sanford Fl

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Anyone know of any fly fishing areas around Orlando,  Possibly Head down to the everglages for a few days. Trying to plan ahead for the hols. hope to hear from someone soon. Neil * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free! Check with Rick at The Fly Fisherman on Orange Ave. in Orlando. HTH, R

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Hi Anyone know of any fly fishing areas around Orlando,  Possibly Head down to the everglages for a few days. Trying to plan ahead for the hols. hope to hear from someone soon. Neil * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

Check with Rick at The Fly Fisherman on Orange Ave. in Orlando. HTH, R

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "The only people who have any business fishing are  young boys and married men. Everyone else should be  out getting laid." …I said that You’ve not met our beloved barrister from Rowan County. A man of many talents he can, and has, combined business, fishing, being married AND getting laid. Or… he used to could. — Ken Fortenberry

        um, well, of course, all such activities involved the same lady, of course, like when we go on family trips to the smokys and i have to call the office.         ken, will you give me a call tomorrow, please? wayno

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Head over to the Oak Hill area. Go by way of Merritt Island. Go to Titusville, across the causeway left to Haul Over Canal and just pick a spot somewhere on the route. Check a map of the area, you’ll see. John Popp in grass dead Sanford Fl

They also have a location in Titusville, FWIW, but I’ve never been there.  I suspect Rick and the guys there know pretty much the whole area, however. R PS  John, Was over on Cedar Key last week and things where decent over there, plus it’s still cool (-ish, better than Orlando area, anyway), the rates at the inns are low this time of year and the crowds are light – us and a flyfishing! Virginia couple in a big trailered Whaler at the hotel marina.  Even got some of the last Stone claws at Charlie’s in Crystal River – yeee-uuumm!!  Kinda sorry to be back in Texas and hot as hell….<G. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Anyone know of any fly fishing areas around Orlando,  Possibly Head down to the everglages for a few days. Trying to plan ahead for the hols. hope to hear from someone soon. Neil * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free! Check with Rick at The Fly Fisherman on Orange Ave. in Orlando. HTH, R

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Hi Anyone know of any fly fishing areas around Orlando,  Possibly Head down to the everglages for a few days. Trying to plan ahead for the hols. hope to hear from someone soon. Neil * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet’s Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet – Free!

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Question:

Anyone have any experience flyfishing in PR or Vieques? We’re headed there shortly and need any info you guys & ladies might have. Thanks, Bill Way

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Im told that Vieques can be quite a blast. Dave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone have any experience flyfishing in PR or Vieques? We’re headed there shortly and need any info you guys & ladies might have. Thanks, Bill Way

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I spent a couple of months down there in the US Navy and I had a blast with the baracuda, gar, croaker, and tarpon. All over the area. You will love it. make sure you have some braided leaders or wire of some sorts. ‘Cudas bite right through it. Also need som 10-20 pound leaders and tippet material. The best colors were blue/white and chartreuse/white. Others worked but not as well. I caught many other species of fish, but I couldn’t tell you what they were. Hope you enjoy the fishing. There are some flats to chose from as well as some good accessible deeper areas. Good fishing Gordo When in doubt, toss ‘em a fly. Who knows, may be your day. Gordo

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Interested in fly fishing and fishing Puerto Rico? See www.fishinginpuertorico.com for more information. Mark V. <’< – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I spent a couple of months down there in the US Navy and I had a blast with the baracuda, gar, croaker, and tarpon. All over the area. You will love it. make sure you have some braided leaders or wire of some sorts. ‘Cudas bite right through it. Also need som 10-20 pound leaders and tippet material. The best colors were blue/white and chartreuse/white. Others worked but not as well. I caught many other species of fish, but I couldn’t tell you what they were. Hope you enjoy the fishing. There are some flats to chose from as well as some good accessible deeper areas. Good fishing Gordo When in doubt, toss ‘em a fly. Who knows, may be your day. Gordo

Before you buy.

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Question:

Okay, if I am posting to the wrong group – I sincerely am sorry – I just am not certain how this Deja thing works and I DO NOT want to intrude on discussion groups.  This group came up under my search for fishing marketplace and collectibles.  Antique fly reel in great shape.  Pflueger Medalist Fly Reel.  Ends on eBay Tues. 8/25.  Bids are at $20.50.  No Reserve.  This really is nice.  If you want to take a look here are the links.  Thanks!  eBay No. 26267477 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=26267477 — Arlykat on eBay

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How Refreshing!!!!! … an apologetic Spammer! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Okay, if I am posting to the wrong group – I sincerely am sorry – I just am not certain how this Deja thing works and I DO NOT want to intrude

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Question:

    my best buddy has managed an invitation to fish the headwaters of the north platte, just over the wyoming line from colorado, on a working ranch near saratoga.  he knows nothing about the water, although he is highly accomplished at fishing here in the appalachians.     thus, these requests for information…does anyone know any details about this section of the n.platte?  flies of choice (early to mid august); how big is the water; is it too cold to wade without neoprene; are there any tributaries in the area that hold brookies; any other good (or better) water within an hour or so?     remember, this is a one time trip, so it isn’t like you would be disclosing secrets to the great unwashed masses.  please send replies email, or call me collect at 336-275-1231.     thanks for the help.     wayne harrison

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     my best buddy has managed an invitation to fish the headwaters of the north platte, just over the wyoming line from colorado, on a working ranch near saratoga.  he knows nothing about the water, although he is highly accomplished at fishing here in the appalachians.     thus, these requests for information…does anyone know any details about this section of the n.platte?  flies of choice (early to mid august); how big is the water; is it too cold to wade without neoprene; are there any tributaries in the area that hold brookies; any other good (or better) water within an hour or so?     remember, this is a one time trip, so it isn’t like you would be disclosing secrets to the great unwashed masses.  please send replies email, or call me collect at 336-275-1231.     thanks for the help.     wayne harrison

Wayne; Two information sources I can think of, and both are excellent IMO: <<www.rockymtnflyfisher.com and Fly Fishing The North Platte by Rod Walinchus, Pruett Publishing, Boulder, CO, 800-247-8224. Rocky Mountain Fly Fisher produces a Windows CD-ROM with info and maps on sevreal dozen Rocky Mountain streams. Al Marlowe

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Question:

<Snip  You may want to underline it by one size.  In any case, try some lines on it and see what works best for you in the way of line weight…as the rod will probably throw several line sizes…but with a different action etc. Barry

I would concur with this idea.  In fact, I did just that on my South Bend mod. 59.   The rod’s rated for a 6 weight, but I use a DT5 on it and it casts great.   The rod has a stout "bass action", but I can cast dry flies with noticeably greater speed, pinpoint accuracy, and the delicacy of a two weight.   IOW:  Try it! Good luck… Homey

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<snip Wes Jordan (of Orvis fame) was the master rod builder at South Bend when your rod was probably made.  He started there in 1926.  The Model Number 47 describes the rods action.  In this case, a stiff or Bass Action.   100 series rod were light action, 300 series rods were considered Dry Fly action.

<snip again Al Manchester NH Still fishing a South Bend 359

Hi Al, If the numbers indicate the action, where does the model 59 fit in to this scheme? Just wondering… Homey

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If the numbers indicate the action, where does the model 59 fit in to this

scheme? Just wondering…<BR Hi Homey South Bend made most if not all of thier rods in thee actions. Bass Action model numbers with   *xx* Wet fly or Trout  modle numbers with   *1xx* Dry Fly Action modle numbers with *3xx* This is for the three piece rods. The rods all had the same hardware and wraps, only the taper was different. So a modle 59 would be a fast action rod, a 159 would be a slow or wet fly action rod, and a 359 would be a dry fly action rod – medium to fast. The modle 59’s were made, depending again on the handle and sticker sometime after 1936 and originaly sold for $5.00 to $9.35. If the rod has a grip that has distinct lines in it, and a thumb rest, called by South Bend a Comficient Grip ( comfortable and efficient ) it was made after 1939, which is when South Bend first started using these grips.  The reel seet will also give a clue as to the rods age. You can pick these rods up pretty cheep, around $125 to $150 and they are ok casting tools and good old everyday rods.  I have an 8 1/2 ft  359 that I have completely redone with modern hardware.  It is a fun nymphing rod.  Although it is a bit heavy.  There isn’t much collector interest in Sout Bend rods it seams becasue they were mass produced, made on milling machines and the sections came from different culms of bamboo.   But so were many other companies rods.  Some big names too that just might shock some people.  It is interesting to read in Wes Jordan – Profile of a Rod Maker, his attention to detail and quality when he was at South Bend.  My personal opinion is that these rods are somewhat undervalued and one day just might get some recognition.  This is in part becasue Wes Jordan always worked for a company, and never produced rods under his own name, so the lack of recognition follows..  For right now, if you want to have some fun fishing cane for a not a lot of money, a South Bend rod just might be the ticket.  You can fish them as is, or, if they are in need of some work, replace the hardware with modern stuff and have a decent cane rod.  The ferrules are the keys, make sure you have a good fit and that they are tight to the cane.  My 359 throws a DT 5 very nicely, mends well, and if I fall down and brake it, well, it’s not a Leonard or a Payne.   Mike Sinclairs book, Bamboo Rod Restoration has a chaper in it in South Bend rods, and has some good advice for those wishing to refinish or even resore an old rod.  For $25.00 it is not a bad refference to have around. Well, see, you asked a simple question and got me started )  Hope this helps. Al

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Some years ago I acquired a South Bend No. 47 split cane rod. It is a nine feet long, three piece rod in a cotton rod bag, and marked in the ‘old’ line ratings as suitable for HCH.C or GBF lines. It came with(and still has) a spare top section. I was hoping someone might be able to give me a little history of the rod, in particular over what time was it made, and what would be its equivalent modern line ratings. The present management of South Bend was unable to help. The rod was previously owned by a well known Australian fisherman and tackle dealer named Hank Newman, now dead for some years. Thanks Peter Barda

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(snip) I was hoping someone might be able to give me a little history of the rod, in particular over what time was it made, and what would be its equivalent modern line ratings. The present management of South Bend was unable to help. The rod was previously owned by a well known Australian fisherman and tackle dealer named Hank Newman, now dead for some years. Thanks Peter Barda

Which model of rod is this?  I believe South Bend made several models/price ranges/quality etc.  Also…if memory serves me correctly, the line size that you mentioned is about an eight weight.  The HCH signified a double taper line and the GBF a weight forward.  This was back when they marked line by diameter….and not just weight.  Today’s lines are categorized by weight….as you know.  By the way, my first fly rod was a South Bend rod that my dad gave to me.  I wish I still had it. One other comment on line sizes for old bamboo rods….  Back in the "good old days", we accepted a slower action than is now standard in most rods. Consequently, you may find that the recommended line size is too heavy for your casting style on the South Bend rod.  You may want to underline it by one size.  In any case, try some lines on it and see what works best for you in the way of line weight…as the rod will probably throw several line sizes…but with a different action etc. Barry

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Some years ago I acquired a South Bend No. 47 split cane rod. It is a nine

feet long, three piece rod in a cotton rod bag, and marked in the ‘old’ line ra0tings as suitable for HCH.C or GBF lines. It came with(and still has) a spare top section.<BR I was hoping someone might be able to give me a little history of the rod, in

particular over what time was it made, and what would be its equivalent modern line ratings. The present management of South Bend was unable to help. Peter, Your rod was made sometime after 1936.  If you could describe the grip and the decal,  I could date it much more acurately for you.  It it has the Comficient Grip, with a gold decal, it was probably made after1939.  If the decal on the grip is a yellow rectangle, the rod was made sometime after WWII. Wes Jordan (of Orvis fame) was the master rod builder at South Bend when your rod was probably made.  He started there in 1926.  The Model Number 47 describes the rods action.  In this case, a stiff or Bass Action.   100 series rod were light action, 300 series rods were considered Dry Fly action.  The HCH refers to a modern DT 7 and GBF is the equivilent of a modern WF8.  The rod sold for around $10.00 to $15.00 depending on when it was made.   A good refference for South Bend Rods is Michael Sinclair’s Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook and Dick Spur’s and Gloria Jordan’s Wes Jordan – Profile of a Rod Maker.  Gloria Jordan still lives in Manchester Vt and runs a fly shop there. Hope this bit of info helps. Al Manchester NH Still fishing a South Bend 359

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Question:

I recently bought a fly outfit and was wondering if there was a good visual tutorial on the net, or anywhere else. Thx HR

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  I recently bought a fly outfit and was wondering if there was a good   visual tutorial on the net, or anywhere else.   Thx   HR

A visual tutorial for what?  Casting?  Fishing?  Fly tying?   Why didn’t you ask the joker from whom you bought your rod? Go back to the store where you bought the fly outfit and ask them for casting lessons and inquire about fishing classes (if you’ve not fished before).  If they don’t offer these things then return the outfit immediately and go somewhere else that does! I say this in all seriousness.  You are going to want lots more equipment and need lots more advice before long and you’d do well to get acquainted with a nice shop that can provide all these things. Be warned that fly tying is also looming on the horizon for you. cheers,         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

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Question:

-I’d like to go for trout in summertime in the mountains. -maybe somebody know a lodge for rent, nice places (colorado?) -and other useful tips?

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-I’d like to go for trout in summertime in the mountains. -maybe somebody know a lodge for rent, nice places (colorado?) -and other useful tips?

Clara: Explore TroutNet.  You’ll find all you requested and more. Have fun. Go trout fishin’. Bob O…<<…<<…<<….

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The Durango area in SW Colo has numerous great trout streams (San Juan, Dolores, Los Pinos, Animas, Florida rivers). For an upscale place to stay, with outstanding golf course, horse back riding, etc, try the Tamarron Hilton (800-678-1000), and call Duranglers Fly Shop (970-385-4081) for information and the best fly fishing guides in the area. For a more rustic small cabin, with kitchen facilities etc, located right on a fantastic trout stream (Florida River) call The O-Bar-O Guest Cabins through Durango info

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Question:

Hi, Nice to meet your group, I hope you can give me some ideas as most posts seem to be from the US (strange, isn’t it?) I am visiting NY for a very short trip and will be staying  near Milford, in New Jersey. I’ll be staying a very short time and if someone could me give me a few names and adresses of shops selling fly fishing equipment (rods), it would be of great help. (no US yellow pages where I live). My one and only rod has been "parting company" with me during a transit at Paris airport. I am rather angry. Luckily the fishing season is over in Ireland, well for most. Any reccomendation for a favourite retailer will be welcome. Thanks Remy

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I am visiting NY for a very short trip and will be staying  near Milford, in New Jersey.

Remy, I live in southern NJ. I get up to that area about once a year to visit the flyfishing show in Somerset. If your visit will be toward the end of January that would be the place to go. Most of the major manufacturers and many fly shops are represented. There are also a couple of casting ponds so you can cast and compare any rods you are interested in. Somerset is within 25 miles of Milford. If your visit doesn’t coincide with the show you could try Effinger’s in Bound Brook on Rt.22 about half way between  Milford and New York City. They have a good selection of rods.I’m sure there are several shops in N.Y.C., the Urban Angler comes to mind, I can’t find thier catalog right now buy if your interested I can get back to you with thier address. Enjoy your stay.          Jim

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Question:

There are ways to get a Sage for cheaper than the normal price.  I got my 590 RPL+ for quite a bit less than retail and its the same rod, brand new, not a second and I love it.

Don’t keep us in suspense…. I’m looking for a RPL Rick

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You mean the inverse of capitalism – capitalism is when market demand determines the price not when a supplier controls the price. If all of us stopped buying because the price was too high then the prices would come down. That would be capitalism at work.

Exactly!  If Sage can’t send enough rods out the door, they’ll go to their distributors and lower the price.  In addition, your point is also an example of why the "price-setting" issue is legal.  As long as consumers have an opportunity to purchase other manufacturer’s similar goods (Orvis, Redington, etc), without fear that manufacturers are working in concert to keep prices high, the system (capitalism) will work.  I also think that many of us draw capitalism out to more than it truly is.  Your example shows only a possible by-product of capitalism.  The only inherent principle in capitalism is that of an economic system that allows for the private ownership of industry. My original intent with the first post was to show that, at least under the current laws, Sage’s (and others) policy on rod prices is legal. Federal Anti-Trust and price-fixing laws deal specifically with a group of manufacturers acting together to either restrict trade or keep prices high (or both).  What a single manufacturer does or doesn’t do with their products is, for the most part, entirely up to them and not currently addressed under law (as far as I know).  The moral or ethical considerations of a manufacturer’s policy is another thing entirely, and one that I probably agree with you on. Jerry Cobb Nashville, TN

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two of my favorite rods are a 3 an 5 wt. redington.  great action and the price is right ( for me).

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David, I have the model 490, 4 weight, Sage RPL+.  I’m not an experienced flyfisherman, and only have two other rods I’ve used extensively.  I started with a Wal-Mart special, moved up to the Sage, and also own an Orvis superfine 6 weight.  The Sage is stiffer, more powerful, and I fish it the most.  The Orvis flexes more easily and I have to force myself to wait longer between the backcast and forward cast to use it effectively. I would recommend you definitly try different rods and find one that suits your style or speed.  I can’t cast that far and still find that the majority of the fish I catch are within half my maximum range.   Look for a rod that you enjoy casting and you wouldn’t mind using all day. Good Luck. Ronny

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: I am thinking about trying a RPL+, and have recently been looking at : some of the spring catalogues for prices.  Does everyone charge list : price (or close to it) or is there someplace that offers at least some : discount?  There must be some entrepreneurs out there  who are willing : to take a little less to make a sale. Sage sets the price. — Jeff Smith                                     Graduate student http://www.msc.cornell.edu/~jeffs         Cornell University, Ithaca, NY

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Smith) writes: : I am thinking about trying a RPL+, and have recently been looking at : some of the spring catalogues for prices.  Does everyone charge list : price (or close to it) or is there someplace that offers at least some : discount?  There must be some entrepreneurs out there  who are willing : to take a little less to make a sale. Sage sets the price.

Although I’m not an antitrust lawyer, I seem to recall from lawschool that such "prics setting (i.e., price fixing)" is illegal and can land one in Leavenworth.  I recognize that Sage (or Orvis etc.) can suggest a retail price but I believe any effort to enforce it on independent dealers would be illegal.

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I currently own several Sage SP rods and din’t even look twice at the new RPL+ rods when they came out.  I spent two weeks in Montana last October and my partner was fishing his brand new RPL+ 590-4.  I asked to cast it one day while we waited to load our drift boat, well the short story is that my wife is currently fishing with some darn nice Sage SP’s and I own two RPL+ series rods. 590-5 and 896-4, I have not been a big fan of four piece rods in the past, but I think you will find that these rods are amazingly easy to cast and shoot lots of line.   I kept my 390sp for my BWO & PMD fishing, but for most of my fishing the RPL+ is my new rod of choice. Cast one! Pask

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: Smith) writes:

: : Sage sets the price. : : Although I’m not an antitrust lawyer, I seem to recall from lawschool : that such "prics setting (i.e., price fixing)" is illegal and can land : one in Leavenworth.  I recognize that Sage (or Orvis etc.) can suggest : a retail price but I believe any effort to enforce it on independent : dealers would be illegal. I talked to a guy at Dan Bailey’s who told me that Sage tells them what price they can sell the rod for.  As I did some looking around, I found that Bailey’s had the same price as everyone else.  You can check the sage website (http://www.sageflyfish.com/) to get the prices.  Prices are "suggested retail", but maybe if you undercut the price Sage might forget to supply the retailer the next year.  We’ve had a discussion about this before- I forget what the final upshot was. — Jeff Smith                                     Graduate student http://www.msc.cornell.edu/~jeffs         Cornell University, Ithaca, NY

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -: Although I’m not an antitrust lawyer, I seem to recall from lawschool : that such "prics setting (i.e., price fixing)" is illegal and can land : one in Leavenworth.  I recognize that Sage (or Orvis etc.) can suggest : a retail price but I believe any effort to enforce it on independent : dealers would be illegal. I talked to a guy at Dan Bailey’s who told me that Sage tells them what price they can sell the rod for.  As I did some looking around, I found that Bailey’s had the same price as everyone else.  You can check the sage website (http://www.sageflyfish.com/) to get the prices.  Prices are "suggested retail", but maybe if you undercut the price Sage might forget to supply the retailer the next year.

 I wonder if any lawyers at the Justice Department are flyfisherman or read this group. Mike Ray Atlatna, Ga Cashiers, NC  

Response:

There are ways to get a Sage for cheaper than the normal price.  I got my 590 RPL+ for quite a bit less than retail and its the same rod, brand new, not a second and I love it.  If anyone was paying attention about 3 months ago I was trying to sell one for under retail but got no takers so I basically gave it to my fishing partner for Christmas.  

Response:

Although I’m not an antitrust lawyer, I seem to recall from lawschool that such "prics setting (i.e., price fixing)" is illegal and can land one in Leavenworth.  I recognize that Sage (or Orvis etc.) can suggest a retail price but I believe any effort to enforce it on independent dealers would be illegal.

Michael Both "trust" and "price-fixing" refer to two or more parties acting in concert.  For example, if Sage and Orvis execs were to conference call and set a price for an indentical product (or very similar product), it would in all likelyhood be price-fixing and is illegal.  Similarly, if the same two companies were to attempt to organize their efforts in an attempt to dominate a market or industry, they are working in "trust," and is considered illegal.  The industrial giants of turn-of-the-century railroad and steel businesses come to mind. Any given manufacturer can REQUIRE its distributors to sell at a certain price, as long as it is part of the agreement to distribute the product, although typically the agreements state a retail price that cannot be lowered.  Any distributor can REFUSE to sell a manufacturer’s product if its terms do not meet the dist.’s needs/wants, such as too high a retail price, not enough margin, etc.  The whole thing reeks of capitalism if you ask me <VBG. Jerry Cobb Nashville, TN

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Although I’m not an antitrust lawyer, I seem to recall from lawschool that such "prics setting (i.e., price fixing)" is illegal

Its not illegal as long as the pricing philosophy is applied to all vendors.  This practice is less common than it used to be, but is not uncommon with "premium" products whose image is based in part on a fixed, high, price. I’m going way back now — but I beleive this one went to the Supreme Court in the 70s. It was a hair-care manufacturer.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any given manufacturer can REQUIRE its distributors to sell at a certain price, as long as it is part of the agreement to distribute the product, although typically the agreements state a retail price that cannot be lowered.  Any distributor can REFUSE to sell a manufacturer’s product if its terms do not meet the dist.’s needs/wants, such as too high a retail price, not enough margin, etc.  The whole thing reeks of capitalism if you ask me <VBG. Jerry Cobb You mean the inverse of capitalism – capitalism is when market demand determines the price not when a supplier controls the price. If all of us stopped buying because the price was too high then the prices would come down. That would be capitalism at work.

Capitalism is rule by those who own the capital i.e., by the shareholders of Sage and Orvis.  We also own capital which we can invest, and this gives birth to free markets.  Strictly speaking though, capitalism is not the rule of the market, the market is a product of capitalism. — Keep your stick on the ice.

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It’s ridiculous to call this price fixing.  Setting the price keeps Walmart and other big volume "businesses" from undercutting the price. It has been tried in the courts and found ok.     If you don’t like the price DON’T BUY IT!!!! An expensive fly rod is hardly an essential item.  They do cast better, but most any rod will cast better than the caster.  What’s sad is that the public can’t get enough of these expensive rods!  I’m sure that the materials, engineering, and demand are driving up the cost, but as long as people continue to be shell out the big bucks the manufacturers are not going to look for ways to cut costs.  I bet if someone came out with a rod with laser aligned guides people would buy it.  Americans just *have* to have the best.   Just my opinion, Rob Gregoire

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Any given manufacturer can REQUIRE its distributors to sell at a certain price, as long as it is part of the agreement to distribute the product, although typically the agreements state a retail price that cannot be lowered.  Any distributor can REFUSE to sell a manufacturer’s product if its terms do not meet the dist.’s needs/wants, such as too high a retail price, not enough margin, etc.  The whole thing reeks of capitalism if you ask me <VBG. Jerry Cobb Nashville, TN

You mean the inverse of capitalism – capitalism is when market demand determines the price not when a supplier controls the price. If all of us stopped buying because the price was too high then the prices would come down. That would be capitalism at work.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Any given manufacturer can REQUIRE its distributors to sell at a certain price, as long as it is part of the agreement to distribute the product, although typically the agreements state a retail price that cannot be lowered.  Any distributor can REFUSE to sell a manufacturer’s product if its terms do not meet the dist.’s needs/wants, such as too high a retail price, not enough margin, etc.  The whole thing reeks of capitalism if you ask me <VBG. Jerry Cobb Nashville, TN You mean the inverse of capitalism – capitalism is when market demand determines the price not when a supplier controls the price. If all of us stopped buying because the price was too high then the prices would come down. That would be capitalism at work.

AMEN!

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writes:  If you don’t like the price DON’T BUY IT!!!! An expensive fly rod is hardly an essential item.  They do cast better, but most any rod will cast better than the caster.  What’s sad is that the public can’t get enough of these expensive rods!  I’m sure that the materials, engineering, and demand are driving up the cost, but as long as people continue to be shell out the big bucks the manufacturers are not going to look for ways to cut costs.   Just my opinion, Rob Gregoire

Rob, thats the reason I’m trying to get one at less than MSR.

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My buddy and I both have a 590 RPL+ and I am amazed at the difference it has in the casting and overall sensitivity.  Seriously they are unlike any rod I’ve ever thrown.  It takes some getting used to the new feel it has, but now I won’t put it down for my other rods.  Besides I’m not a big fan of noodle rods and the RPL+ rods are nice and stiff but forgiving in the tip.  Plus you can’t beat the warranty.  I’d definitely recommend one.

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I am thinking about trying a RPL+, and have recently been looking at some of the spring catalogues for prices.  Does everyone charge list price (or close to it) or is there someplace that offers at least some discount?  There must be some entrepreneurs out there  who are willing to take a little less to make a sale. Atlanta, Georgia Cashiers, North Carolina

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Has anyone out there had any experience with the new SAGE RPL+ flyrods.  Although I will cast before buy, Im relatively new to flyfishing and would appreciate comments.

I have cast but never fished an RPL+.  It is a hell of a parking lot rod.  It’s fairly easy to cast a lot of line with a nice tight lope (even for a lousy caster like me.  It’s a very fast action rod.  Whether it will work as well on the water depends, I think, on what type of fishing you will be doing with it and what sort of action you prefer.  Logically, it would seem to be a better big fish rod (e.g. steelhead) where long casts amy be necessary than a spring creek brook trout rod. I casted the 8 wt. and while it was lots of fun in the lot, I generally like a some what slower rod (I prefered the Sage SP). Anyway, that’s my $.02. Andy

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Has anyone out there had any experience with the new SAGE RPL+ flyrods.  Although I will cast before buy, Im relatively new to flyfishing and would appreciate comments.

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