Question:

These thoughtful posts from Tara are just too good to allow to fade from usenet. Since Tara set them not to be archived, I’ve copied them here to protect them for posterity. MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Hogwasher/2.6.1 (Macintosh) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.national- parks,rec.backcountry,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,alt.wolves X-No-Archive: yes Lines: 73 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.226.237.31 X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1023508397 209.226.237.31 (Fri, 07 Jun 2002 23:53:17 EDT) Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com!newsfeeds-atl2!news- out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!upp1.onvoy!msc1.onvoy!onv oy.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.c om!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: usenetserver.com rec.outdoors.national-parks:143809 rec.backcountry:254050 rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:328244 alt.wolves:135493 atl1.usenetserver.com) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bingo! Yippee!  You win! So youa re actively and vigorously working at protecting the Tom Benos of the world. Ya think?  Well, I guess I’m not going to get too worked up over it.  I mean, how many of them can there be?  I don’t believe I’ve ever encountered the name Beno before……I’d be much surprised if there’s more than a couple dozen Tom Benos on the planet.  And, given how unlikely it is that they share much more than a name, I suspect that giving all of them my active and vigorous support would pretty much be a wash in the long run, don’t you? Thanks for the support! Uh…..you’re welcome…….I guess…….um…….are you a Tom Beno? E-mail his ISP and complain about the illegal and unconstitutional harassment techniques of the far right extremists trying to take away his right of free speech! Rise up and smite the oppressors!  Dirty filthy cowards, all of them… Dan Evidence be damned!  I’m gonna go way out on a limb here and give long odds that you and the rest of the Tom Benos think you got something to say. Wolfgang whattya say boys and girls……who wants to win a shiny new nickel?      :)

Reading all of this – all of this – I am overwhelmed with the sheer pettiness of all of you. ALL of you.  What a waste of time, what a waste of lives. Do none of you have nothing better to do with your time.  Do any of you ever stand back and look at what you write and actually see yourselves. "I’ll do what I want because my way is the right way. And I’ll do what is right because you are wrong!" "And I’ll fix you, ha ha!"  Do you not see that all of you are right and all of you are at the same time wrong?  Nah, you don’t. Your attitude, both sides, is why we have the mess we do.  This is why this world, it’s politics and it’s results are, and continue to be a mess   This is not the way to clean it up or change it. It’s only a way to perpetuate it. I sit back and look at this and I see that Tom, at least has a cause, a purpose and we need that. We need crusaders. But when it becomes a matter of oneupmanship or one of school yard childishness, there is no hope of change. What to do?  Has anyone ever known what to to. I sometimes think it’s simply going to be a struggle forever.   In the history of the world the only ones who have truly changed anything are those who have always been unwilling to resort to the tactics I see here. You, all of you are the grain of sand that is the universe. What kind of universe do you want it to be. Tara Just my 2 cents. MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Hogwasher/2.6.1 (Macintosh) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.national- parks,rec.backcountry,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,alt.wolves X-No-Archive: yes Lines: 112 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.208.65.191 X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1023515054 216.208.65.191 (Sat, 08 Jun 2002 01:44:14 EDT) Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com!newsfeeds-atl2!btnet- peer1!btnet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!torn !webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.b ellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: usenetserver.com rec.outdoors.national-parks:143811 rec.backcountry:254061 rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:328261 alt.wolves:135495 atl1.usenetserver.com) Tom is not a crusader, he’s a nuisance. I’m sure that you also welcome into your home every person that has a religous message to share. And isn’t that the ultimate crusade?

Ahhh, Jeff, notice how you searched for and of course, found the one thing you could find to perpetuate and continue the madness. And also notice (you won’t, however), how you brought it into a new twist to perpetuate the argument.  But, I’m not arguing, and I will not continue (no matter what idiotic responses come from what I’ve said) to post here anymore on this topic. Tara Bye buy. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bingo! Yippee!  You win! So youa re actively and vigorously working at protecting the Tom Benos of the world. Ya think?  Well, I guess I’m not going to get too worked up over it.  I mean, how many of them can there be?  I don’t believe I’ve ever encountered the name Beno before……I’d be much surprised if there’s more than a couple dozen Tom Benos on the planet.  And, given how unlikely it is that they share much more than a name, I suspect that giving all of them my active and vigorous support would pretty much be a wash in the long run, don’t you? Thanks for the support! Uh…..you’re welcome…….I guess…….um…….are you a Tom Beno? E-mail his ISP and complain about the illegal and unconstitutional harassment techniques of the far right extremists trying to take away his right of free speech! Rise up and smite the oppressors!  Dirty filthy cowards, all of them… Dan Evidence be damned!  I’m gonna go way out on a limb here and give long odds that you and the rest of the Tom Benos think you got something to say. Wolfgang whattya say boys and girls……who wants to win a shiny new nickel?      :) Reading all of this – all of this – I am overwhelmed with the sheer pettiness of all of you. ALL of you.  What a waste of time, what a waste of lives. Do none of you have nothing better to do with your time.  Do any of you ever stand back and look at what you write and actually see yourselves. "I’ll do what I want because my way is the right way. And I’ll do what is right because you are wrong!" "And I’ll fix you, ha ha!"  Do you not see that all of you are right and all of you are at the same time wrong?   Nah, you

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Dang!  You know, I think she’s right.

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Yeah, she may be right, but in the end, isn’t her responding to them just more of the same?  And isn’t my response to her responding to them just more of the same? …Whoa, too much thinking makes Kurt’s head spin.  I’m going to go sit down now.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dang!  You know, I think she’s right.

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Question:

What is it about color blindness that would impair one’s ability to see a fly on the water ?

It effects your ability to pick out certain colors on certain color backgrounds. For example, I have trouble seeing red objects on a green background, so a red fly on the water with trees reflected would be more difficult to see than the same fly on the water with blue sky reflected. — Charlie…

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What is it about color blindness that would impair one’s ability to see a fly on the water ? It effects your ability to pick out certain colors on certain color backgrounds. For example, I have trouble seeing red objects on a green background, so a red fly on the water with trees reflected would be more difficult to see than the same fly on the water with blue sky reflected. — Charlie…

I’d think that the key to visibility under these conditions would be to use flies. leaders, indicators, etc. that have high contrast differences rather than colour differences.  Red and green have about the same reflectance so somebody with RG colour blindness would have trouble distinguishing a red item against a green background as both would appear to be a similar colour and there would be very little contrast between them. As far as seeing fish – I don’t think that is much of an issue – it becomes a matter of learning the water.  My home river is off colour for most of the season so trying to locate holding fish by sight is damn near impossible.  Unless they’re rising, I fish to likely spots rather than to fish I have seen. Even though I am not colour blind, I spent years as a black & white photographer and after a while, I could visualize a scene in black & white.  I would use a green or red filter if I wanted to emphasize greens and reds.  Take a picture of a red rose against green leaves without a filter and they appear the same grey tone in the photo – add a green filter and the leaves go pale and the rose goes almost black. The green filter allows the green wavelengths to pass through but blocks the reds.  I’m not suggesting that someone who has RG colour blindness wear green sunglasses, but we can take the principles of contrast in B&W photography and apply it to the problem. To help with contrast, Borger suggests using indicators that have a bright colour plus black.  The bright color shows up on dark water and the black shows up against bright water or a light bottom.  In some lighting conditions (e.g. backlighting), even someone with normal colour vision will not be able to see the colours and has to rely on contrast. HTH Peter

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Bob- Post your question to sci.med.vision, and you’ll probably get more information than you’ll care to read. Without knowing anything about the method, I suggest you email the company and ask for a list of "PEER REVIEWED" publications describing the efficacy of their techniques.  If you email me the list you get, I’ll try to figure out if they are peer reviewed or not. If they can’t provide you with this list, hold on to your $700. Of course, if the product is all they say it is, they won’t be afraid to offer a money-back guarantee, would they?? Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, There are relatively new glasses being sold by an outfit called Colormax to supposedly help discriminate between reds and greens.  They are available in prescriptions.  Not sure re polarized availability. They are Very expensive;  about $ 700 per pair, I think. Have Absolutely NO idea if they work or not. I’ve been beating the bushes for about a year now, trying to get opinions on them. Opinions seem very varied.   Some have said they help, others not. Just posting this so you know they exist. —-Anyone else here tried them ??—- Bob — As a relative newbie to flyfishing in the mountain streams of Colorado, I’ve come to realize that my color blindness has proven to be quite a problem in locating fish, flies (wet and dry) and pretty much anything else in the water.  I’ve tried various types of polarized sunglasses but, short of a fluorescent strike indicator, I can’t see anything beyond the end of my flyline.  Any fish I’ve caught have been by sheer luck (although I’d never admit it in public). Has any one else out there had similar problems or know anyone else that has overcome this unfortunate disadvantage?  I’m not a big fan a strike indicators and I look like a pretty big goof tying one above a dry fly, but I’m out of options. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance, Jafo

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FDA TALK PAPER Food and Drug Administration U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Public Health Service 5600 Fishers Lane Rockville, MD 20857 —- FDA Talk Papers are prepared by the Press Office to guide FDA personnel in responding with consistency and accuracy to questions from the public on subjects of current interest. Talk Papers are subject to change as more information becomes available. —- T99-58                                    Sharon Snider:    301-827-6242 December 21, 1999                         Broadcast Media:  301-827-3434                                           Consumer Media:   888-INFO-FDA COLORMAX LENSES The FDA has received a number of media inquiries about ColorMax eyeglass lenses, which are being promoted widely as a way to correct color blindness. Some of the claims in these promotions may be misleading. The following can be used to answer questions: ColorMax lenses, made by Color Vision Technologies, Inc., Tustin, Calif., were cleared for market by FDA in November. They are tinted prescription spectacle lenses intended as an optical aid for people with red-green color vision deficiencies. The lenses do not help wearers perceive or appreciate colors as people with normal color vision do, but merely add brightness/darkness differences to colors that are otherwise difficult or impossible to distinguish. ColorMax lenses are designed to improve discrimination of specific colors that look the same to people with regreen color deficiencies. However, discrimination of at least some other colors is actually impaired. ColorMax lenses are not effective for people who are totally color blind. Very few people are truly color blind, and these lenses will not help them to see colors. Most people with color vision problems have partial color vision deficiencies that make it difficult to distinguish between red and green or between yellow and blue. FDA marketing clearance for ColorMax Lenses is limited to red-green color deficiencies, and does not include yellow-blue deficiencies or total color blindness. http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/ANSWERS/ANS00990.html — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bob- Post your question to sci.med.vision, and you’ll probably get more information than you’ll care to read. Without knowing anything about the method, I suggest you email the company and ask for a list of "PEER REVIEWED" publications describing the efficacy of their techniques.  If you email me the list you get, I’ll try to figure out if they are peer reviewed or not. If they can’t provide you with this list, hold on to your $700. Of course, if the product is all they say it is, they won’t be afraid to offer a money-back guarantee, would they?? Scott Hi, There are relatively new glasses being sold by an outfit called Colormax to supposedly help discriminate between reds and greens.  They are available in prescriptions.  Not sure re polarized availability. They are Very expensive;  about $ 700 per pair, I think. Have Absolutely NO idea if they work or not. I’ve been beating the bushes for about a year now, trying to get opinions on them. Opinions seem very varied.   Some have said they help, others not. Just posting this so you know they exist. —-Anyone else here tried them ??—- Bob — As a relative newbie to flyfishing in the mountain streams of Colorado, I’ve come to realize that my color blindness has proven to be quite a problem in locating fish, flies (wet and dry) and pretty much anything else in the water.  I’ve tried various types of polarized sunglasses but, short of a fluorescent strike indicator, I can’t see anything beyond the end of my flyline.  Any fish I’ve caught have been by sheer luck (although I’d never admit it in public). Has any one else out there had similar problems or know anyone else that has overcome this unfortunate disadvantage?  I’m not a big fan a strike indicators and I look like a pretty big goof tying one above a dry fly, but I’m out of options. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance, Jafo

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As a relative newbie to flyfishing in the mountain streams of Colorado, I’ve come to realize that my color blindness has proven to be quite a problem in locating fish, flies (wet and dry) and pretty much anything else in the water.  I’ve tried various types of polarized sunglasses but, short of a fluorescent strike indicator, I can’t see anything beyond the end of my flyline.  Any fish I’ve caught have been by sheer luck (although I’d never admit it in public). Has any one else out there had similar problems or know anyone else that has overcome this unfortunate disadvantage?  I’m not a big fan a strike indicators and I look like a pretty big goof tying one above a dry fly, but I’m out of options. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance, Jafo

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As a relative newbie … Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Sounds to me like you’re putting too much of the blame on being color blind. It takes practice to see small flies on the water, use parachute patterns when appropriate and keep at it. Good luck, — Ken Fortenberry

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Has any one else out there had similar problems or know anyone else that has overcome this unfortunate disadvantage?  I’m not a big fan a strike indicators and I look like a pretty big goof tying one above a dry fly, but I’m out of options. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance, Jafo

Open up the window, Jafo, and let me catch my breath!! (Momma told me not to come..) I, too, am afflicted with the recessive sex-linked form of red-green color blindness, and it drives me nuts.  I’m not much of a trout fisher, but I do a lot of flats fishing, primarily for bonefish.  I have a really hard time with the subtle shades of grey, tan, white, and green on the flats.  The good news is that, with experience, your ability to interpret what you see will improve. My opthalmologist suggested amber or yellow lenses-don’t know that they help. Disregard what the "normal guy" says-he hasn’t walked in your waders.   Interestingly enough, the Army Air Corp and the USAF recruited color blind guys to serve in reconnasance planes during WWII because once trained, they were not as likely to be fooled by camoflage coverings on enemy istallations. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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I’m 50% color blind.  I have a real problem "Matching the trout hatch".  So I ask the fly shop guys in the destination area what the fish are hitting and have them detail the patterns with each color identified by number, vendor and any other details.  This is really important for my dubbing and colors which someone has to help me with. On the water, I go for white water where sight fishing isn’t that important as I have the same trouble seeing fish.  But I cast such a big shadow, I gotta get hid, stay low and take my time watching for action, insects, forage, birds, etc..  But, isn’t that what fishing is all about anyway? Just be patient and enjoy the experience.  It’ll come. Good luck. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a relative newbie to flyfishing in the mountain streams of Colorado, I’ve come to realize that my color blindness has proven to be quite a problem in locating fish, flies (wet and dry) and pretty much anything else in the water.  I’ve tried various types of polarized sunglasses but, short of a fluorescent strike indicator, I can’t see anything beyond the end of my flyline.  Any fish I’ve caught have been by sheer luck (although I’d never admit it in public). Has any one else out there had similar problems or know anyone else that has overcome this unfortunate disadvantage?  I’m not a big fan a strike indicators and I look like a pretty big goof tying one above a dry fly, but I’m out of options. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance, Jafo

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Hi, There are relatively new glasses being sold by an outfit called Colormax to supposedly help discriminate between reds and greens.  They are available in prescriptions.  Not sure re polarized availability. They are Very expensive;  about $ 700 per pair, I think. Have Absolutely NO idea if they work or not. I’ve been beating the bushes for about a year now, trying to get opinions on them. Opinions seem very varied.   Some have said they help, others not. Just posting this so you know they exist. —-Anyone else here tried them ??—- Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a relative newbie to flyfishing in the mountain streams of Colorado, I’ve come to realize that my color blindness has proven to be quite a problem in locating fish, flies (wet and dry) and pretty much anything else in the water.  I’ve tried various types of polarized sunglasses but, short of a fluorescent strike indicator, I can’t see anything beyond the end of my flyline.  Any fish I’ve caught have been by sheer luck (although I’d never admit it in public). Has any one else out there had similar problems or know anyone else that has overcome this unfortunate disadvantage?  I’m not a big fan a strike indicators and I look like a pretty big goof tying one above a dry fly, but I’m out of options. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance, Jafo

Response:

Have you considered making your own leaders and using Stren Hi-Vis Gold line (or some other high visibility line) for some or all of the leader/tippet? Certainly there are plenty of folks out there who use this line and catch fish, even on the surface.  I know some non-color-blind folks who do this to eliminate the need for a strike indicator (they are serious nymphers).  You could at least buy a spool of 2-4lb test line try using it for tippet material.  You’d only be out a few bucks either way and if it works, you’d have a solution to your dilemma. Tom G with two red-green color-blind friends, neither of whom fly fish–now I know why

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As a relative newbie to flyfishing in the mountain streams of Colorado, I’ve come to realize that my color blindness has proven to be quite a problem in locating fish, flies (wet and dry) and pretty much anything else in the water.  I’ve tried various types of polarized sunglasses but, short of a fluorescent strike indicator, I can’t see anything beyond the end of my flyline.  Any fish I’ve caught have been by sheer luck (although I’d never admit it in public). Has any one else out there had similar problems or know anyone else that has overcome this unfortunate disadvantage?  I’m not a big fan a strike indicators and I look like a pretty big goof tying one above a dry fly, but I’m out of options. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance, Jafo

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… with two red-green color-blind friends, neither of whom fly fish–now I know why

Like another poster to this thread pointed out, red-green color blind people were recruited as aerial spotters, this would indicate to me that the color blindness doesn’t impair visual acuity. What is it about color blindness that would impair one’s ability to see a fly on the water ? Not doubting for one minute that it’s true, just wondering. — Ken Fortenberry

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… with two red-green color-blind friends, neither of whom fly fish–now I know why Like another poster to this thread pointed out, red-green color blind people were recruited as aerial spotters, this would indicate to me that the color blindness doesn’t impair visual acuity. What is it about color blindness that would impair one’s ability to see a fly on the water ? Not doubting for one minute that it’s true, just wondering.

I have a friend with RG colorblindness, and he is a pretty good flyfisherman.  The last time I fished with him, he caught a dozen trout between 12 and 20 inches during a caddis hatch on the Madison, to my one. Kevin

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I have a friend with RG colorblindness, and he is a pretty good flyfisherman.  The last time I fished with him, he caught a dozen trout between 12 and 20 inches during a caddis hatch on the Madison, to my one.

If you were only catching 1 inch fish, you were probably using the wrong color fly.

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Question:

Beginning angler, need advice: What would be best live/artificial Baits to catch Catfish & Bass? What should be the best locations in the streams (no current, fast current, ponds, depths, etc…) where Catfish or Bass are concentrated? Thank you very much indeed.

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Brian, I haven’t done alot of catfishing but I ran across a guy the other day and he said he uses a product called junnies (do a search on the web). he said he bought the stuff off the internet and that a catfish guide told him about it he stated that the guide had the maker come fishing with him and they caught 10 to 1 (maker vs. guide). I do alot of creek fishing and catch alot of bass. I use a lure by rebel called a creek hopper. On a good day I catch and relese about 30 (1/2lb to 1 1/2lds) bass and no telling how many sunfish. you can also check: <A HREF="http:www.tn-outdoors.comtn-outdoors.com</A for other fishing and hunting articles. happy fishing Larry

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I have found that a ball of chicken liver on a medium size treble hook works well in most situations. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Beginning angler, need advice: What would be best live/artificial Baits to catch Catfish & Bass? What should be the best locations in the streams (no current, fast current, ponds, depths, etc…) where Catfish or Bass are concentrated? Thank you very much indeed.

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I have a question:  how do you get the chicken livers to stay on the hook.  I got some fresh chicken livers to use for bait and they were the consistancy of mush.  I would have had a better chance of trying to put grape jelly on the hook.  I have heard you can freeze them but this seems like a messy job.   Any suggestions you can give would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have found that a ball of chicken liver on a medium size treble hook works well in most situations. Beginning angler, need advice: What would be best live/artificial Baits to catch Catfish & Bass? What should be the best locations in the streams (no current, fast current, ponds, depths, etc…) where Catfish or Bass are concentrated? Thank you very much indeed.

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I have found that a ball of chicken liver on a medium size treble hook works well in most situations.

BBBbbbbbbut chicken liver flies right off the hook when you’re fly fishing.  Fresh pork skin is the best way for the fly fisherman —  * Center for Computational Biology  * Montana State Bozeman  (406) 994-7061  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy */

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Hey…. Martha Stuart of Flyfishing <g <g <g Yuk Yuk Yuk !!! Are you still using the Hot Glue gun to tie your flies (I just came across your article from the Disco era) ?. I (obviously) found it amusing as hell….sorry…<g I also saw your foam nymphs in the Umpqua book…congratulations… — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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You can use strips cut from pantyhose to wrap the chicken livers in prior to placing them on the hook.  This keeps the bait on the hook but still lets the scent and blood reach the fish. A couple tips: – Cutting the pantyhose into strips prior to going fishing will spare you a significant amount of hastle from your fishing buddies. – Be careful when inserting a hook with a large barb.  It is not easy to stick the hook through the fabric.  Or better yet mash the barb down somewhat. – Let the wrapped liver soak in blood before you hurl it at the catfish. – I’ll leave the acquisition of the aforementioned garments to you.  Your wife may worry if she catches you rifling through her dresser. Good luck – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a question:  how do you get the chicken livers to stay on the hook.  I got some fresh chicken livers to use for bait and they were the consistancy of mush.  I would have had a better chance of trying to put grape jelly on the hook.  I have heard you can freeze them but this seems like a messy job.   Any suggestions you can give would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

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FROM, ANDRE !   I OFTEN TRY SEWING THREAD WITH MY CHICKEN LIVER, SIMPLY PUT THE LIVER ON A TRI -HOOK  AND PROCEED TO RAP IT ABOUT 10 TIMES ,  THAT ALWAYS WORKS FOR ME.

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Question:

Hi all, 1. The cost of fishing is going up, up, up. A good Sage rod can cost upwards of $600 for a piece of inexpensive graphite.  A day with a guide can cost above $300.  A night at a fishing lodge can cost $600.  (Firewood kindling can cost $40!<g)

Of course, we’ve always justified these things by pointing out how expensive cocaine is in comparison.  (just kidding) I am living proof that you can get an enormous amount of enjoyment from fishing for very little money.

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Hi all, I’ve received a couple of nasty emails over the past few days which tell me at least a few people do not understand what I am saying in my posts under the thread "Orvis Bashing."  (Believe me, I understand that most do not care!)  I am concerned others who read what I write, but do not send me email believe I am complaining about my salary.  I am not.  Like almost everyone, I wish it were more, and I believe it should be, but I have plenty of options if I am really unhappy about salary.  I’m sorry if what I write comes off as complaining at all, but I assure you, I am not talking about my salary.  Let me try and be as clear with my ideas as possible. 1. The cost of fishing is going up, up, up.   A good Sage rod can cost upwards of $600 for a piece of inexpensive graphite.  A day with a guide can cost above $300.  A night at a fishing lodge can cost $600.  (Firewood kindling can cost $40!<g) 2. We, the consumers, are as guilty as Orvis or anyone in this game.   We do not critically examine what the return is for the cost.  We pay it, just like we pay for overpriced Nike shoes.  We have been marketed. This I think, is a relatively recent phenomenon in fishing. 3. We do not do this with all things, like taxes or education.   We want to know what we will get for increased expenditures and most of us are suspicious of those who ask for more.  Therefore, it is not an innate part of the human condition to automatically overpay for things we value.  There is no a priori connection. 4. In fact, public education (and the local library, etc., whatever your local taxes go towards) in this country is generally an outrageous bargain.  We do not recognize this (in part) because there is no slick brochure, no beautiful movie or hilarious TV advertisement that tells us it is true.  There is no marketing.   5. If we really thought about this stuff, there is no way most of us could justify paying more for our own recreation than our children’s needs. Summary: The real beef with Orvis (or Sage, etc.) is that they are great marketers. This is not a crime, and we as consumers are partners in the activity. We must first realize this.  I made some comparisons of things I know about in order to demonstrate how much we pay for things which need not be expensive.  "Costs more" is not always better, nor is it necessary. Fishing for trout is about standing in a beautiful river in a beautiful setting and that is still free.  Resist the rest.   — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Rick Fletcher schrieb in Nachricht Hi all, I’ve received a couple of nasty emails over the past few days which tell

Hi Rick, I read all the Orvis bashing posts etc with interest. Understood your posts as well, in fact I invariably do understand your posts. Think it has to do with the fact that they are well composed and spelled, and you seem to know what you are talking about usually.  I think many people dislike being faced with moral issues, especially when this has to do with their passions and hobbies.   Some of the comparisons are a little hard to take, because they are obviously too close to the mark. I am bound to disagree with one or two of your points however, many people have no problem at all justifying the cost of their recreation as opposed to their childrens, or anybody elses needs for that matter, this is part of the problem. Also, one of the reasons many people go fishing, is to forget their problems for a while, and do not wish to be reminded of them in this context, because it probably makes them feel guilty as hell, having spent all that money which they shouldnt really have done in the first place !.  A lot of people are firmly convinced that it is not possible to enjoy anything much at all unless it is done using the " best" tools etc available, this all too often translates into the "most expensive" and I have actually heard people discussing tackle etc. in shops and the like, when somebody has said "it must be good, look how expensive it is ! ". This phenomenon is not new either, read some of the older literature, and you will see what I mean, Skues plugging Leonard rods etc. Hardys being praised to the skies for some perfectly ordinary ( but expensive ! ) bit of totally useless equipment etc. etc.  The high power marketing of today was not apparent of course, but then the market was far more limited. Even otherwise sensible people fall for "hype" when it has to do with their hobby, and this is what makes the market so attractive, the very fact that people will spend very large amounts of money for "names" etc, without really being able to judge whether it is worth it or not, and without making any appreciable difference to their capabilities, although pride of ownership etc might increase their enjoyment a little. Sorry you got nasty e-mails, but not everybody does things like that. Lastly, and on a somewhat lighter note, can you  tell me where this free beautiful river in a beautiful setting is ? ( just kidding ! ) Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

Hi all, I’ve received a couple of nasty emails over the past few days

        ok, rick, send me their addresses, and i’ll have o.c. and the bad boys from rowan county, n.c. chill the bastards.  anything goes in the defense of literacy! T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

        a. wayne harrison

Response:

Hi Rick, You are trying to link your desire of a high end rod with Orvis marketing. And then blaming Orvis for your need of an expensive rod.  Am I getting close?  Hard to resist though.   My wife and I have two children about to enter college.  I surely want them in the Dennisons, Harvards, and the Dukes of this world but, guess what, it costs money.  My daughter wants to go into elementary education.  Talk about a return on her (my) money!  My son wants to be a flyfishing, rock climbing bum.  But he also realizes that after the good times, he might have the need to provide for a retirement. Rather than grip about the ‘high end’ colleges, we simply pay the costs (without grabbing an appropriate newsgroup and soap box) or we council a college priced fairly for the educational degree we are after. Buy a rod on sale and make it do and don’t worry yourself over the Orvis marketing that none of us can do anything about.   Hope this makes sense. Mike Warren, OH/Cook Forest, PA – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I’ve received a couple of nasty emails over the past few days which tell me at least a few people do not understand what I am saying in my posts under the thread "Orvis Bashing."  (Believe me, I understand that most do not care!)  I am concerned others who read what I write, but do not send me email believe I am complaining about my salary.  I am not.  Like almost everyone, I wish it were more, and I believe it should be, but I have plenty of options if I am really unhappy about salary.  I’m sorry if what I write comes off as complaining at all, but I assure you, I am not talking about my salary.  Let me try and be as clear with my ideas as possible. 1. The cost of fishing is going up, up, up. A good Sage rod can cost upwards of $600 for a piece of inexpensive graphite.  A day with a guide can cost above $300.  A night at a fishing

Response:

Well said Mike, I guess it really isn’t Orvis that I dislike, it is just their marketing, advertising and promotional methods. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail GO TO  http://www/ccnet.com/~emh FOR TRAVEL TIE BOX PLANS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Rick Fletcher schrieb in Nachricht Hi all, I’ve received a couple of nasty emails over the past few days which tell Hi Rick, I read all the Orvis bashing posts etc with interest. Understood your posts as well, in fact I invariably do understand your posts. Think it has to do with the fact that they are well composed and spelled, and you seem to know what you are talking about usually.  I think many people dislike being faced with moral issues, especially when this has to do with their passions and hobbies.   Some of the comparisons are a little hard to take, because they are obviously too close to the mark. I am bound to disagree with one or two of your points however, many people have no problem at all justifying the cost of their recreation as opposed to their childrens, or anybody elses needs for that matter, this is part of the problem. Also, one of the reasons many people go fishing, is to forget their problems for a while, and do not wish to be reminded of them in this context, because it probably makes them feel guilty as hell, having spent all that money which they shouldnt really have done in the first place !.  A lot of people are firmly convinced that it is not possible to enjoy anything much at all unless it is done using the " best" tools etc available, this all too often translates into the "most expensive" and I have actually heard people discussing tackle etc. in shops and the like, when somebody has said "it must be good, look how expensive it is ! ". This phenomenon is not new either, read some of the older literature, and you will see what I mean, Skues plugging Leonard rods etc. Hardys being praised to the skies for some perfectly ordinary ( but expensive ! ) bit of totally useless equipment etc. etc.  The high power marketing of today was not apparent of course, but then the market was far more limited. Even otherwise sensible people fall for "hype" when it has to do with their hobby, and this is what makes the market so attractive, the very fact that people will spend very large amounts of money for "names" etc, without really being able to judge whether it is worth it or not, and without making any appreciable difference to their capabilities, although pride of ownership etc might increase their enjoyment a little. Sorry you got nasty e-mails, but not everybody does things like that. Lastly, and on a somewhat lighter note, can you  tell me where this free beautiful river in a beautiful setting is ? ( just kidding ! ) Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

Rick – thanks for the well thought out post. Based on your perspective of money and costs and value(s), I am certain that we could fish together. I could not agree more. Ben

Response:

Hi all, I’ve received a couple of nasty emails over the past few days which tell me at least a few people do not understand what I am saying in my posts under the thread "Orvis Bashing."  

[snip] Been there, fun eh? 3. We do not do this with all things, like taxes or education.   We want to know what we will get for increased expenditures and most of us are suspicious of those who ask for more.  Therefore, it is not an innate part of the human condition to automatically overpay for things we value.  There is no a priori connection. 4. In fact, public education (and the local library, etc., whatever your local taxes go towards) in this country is generally an outrageous bargain.  We do not recognize this (in part) because there is no slick brochure, no beautiful movie or hilarious TV advertisement that tells us it is true.  There is no marketing.  

These complaints work both ways. Canada has a universal health care system paid for by tax revenue.  I was at a party last year when one party goer (with a six figure income in anyone’s currency) whined and complained about how much he had to pay in taxes to support this system.  I wondered how many tens or hundreds of thousands he was willing to commit to an early death, just so he could become even filthier rich.  Neither was he willing to consider that the alternatives would have ended up costing the country and him, even more.  Limited minds don’t necessarily come attached to limited pockets. 5. If we really thought about this stuff, there is no way most of us could justify paying more for our own recreation than our children’s needs.

Only the most selfish would. Summary: The real beef with Orvis (or Sage, etc.) is that they are great marketers. This is not a crime, and we as consumers are partners in the activity. We must first realize this.  I made some comparisons of things I know about in order to demonstrate how much we pay for things which need not be expensive.  "Costs more" is not always better, nor is it necessary. Fishing for trout is about standing in a beautiful river in a beautiful setting and that is still free.  Resist the rest.   — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

What’s that old saying? Caveat emptor?  True in flyfishing as in anything else. Peter

Response:

Oy, an intelligent post.  I had to, like, read it. As a public school teacher I can relate.  I often do extra duty and spend summer days in curriculum development or whatever to make enough money to indulge in my addiction.  Regular money covers other luxuries like food.  I think of this extra money not as dollars but as flyrods, which are very expensive even if you get the "good guy" price. Dave

Response:

Question:

I fish in Mexico now and then around Rocky Point, in the upper Sea of Cortez. My wife and I like wading and casting to sea trout and pompano but the last two trips my wife stepped on a sting ray, which really put a damper on the rest of our fishing (her’s and mine). I’m curious to know how others have solved this problem.  I’m looking at Cabella’s flats wading bootie.  It seems like it protects the bottom of your foot and your toes but a big sting ray could still whack your upper foot and ankle (yeeeouch!). Any ideas?

Response:

I fish in Mexico now and then around Rocky Point, in the upper Sea of Cortez. My wife and I like wading and casting to sea trout and pompano but the last two trips my wife stepped on a sting ray, which really put a damper on the rest of our fishing (her’s and mine). I’m curious to know how others have solved this problem.  I’m looking at Cabella’s flats wading bootie.  It seems like it protects the bottom of your foot and your toes but a big sting ray could still whack your upper foot and ankle (yeeeouch!). Any ideas?

 I have never seen or heard of anything that you can put on your feet short of steel shoes that will stop a ray’s point from going through your foot when you step on them.  The best way to avoid stingrays when you are in the area is to shuffle your feet instead of picking them up and stepping around like you normally would.  I learned this when I used to dive.  You never stepped down onto sand without fluttering your feet first.   When you walk in areas that have rays just shuffle your feet (which will leave a mud trail behind you) and it will scare the rays away before you step on them.  If there is a current, make sure you are walking into the current so the mud goes behind you instead of in front of you.  Rays are not hostile and will not attack you, but they hide themselves in the sand and can put that barb onto any part of their back that you step on in an instant.  Not a lot of fun and they are difficult to spot when so hidden.  The neoprene boots offered by Orvis, Cabela’s, Simm’s, Glacier Glove, etc. will not protect you from this problem.  Lazy feet will protect you.  No need to buy anything, just change your habits when you *think* rays are in the area.                            Hope this helps,                                     Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

Thanks, Dan, for your post regardng sting ray proof wading shoes.  I wish the news was better.  I’m sure your’e right that rays can poke though the neoprene part of flats booties.  But what about the rubber sole and the rubber part over the toes and top of the foot?   Interestingly, both of my wife’s stings were on her big toe (ouch!)  Seems like something as hard as tennis shoe rubber ought to top ‘em.  These are pretty small rays, maybe as big you our outstreached hand and fingers. Let me know what you think. Thanks again.

Response:

Thanks, Dan, for your post regardng sting ray proof wading shoes.  I wish the news was better.  I’m sure your’e right that rays can poke though the neoprene part of flats booties.  But what about the rubber sole and the rubber part over the toes and top of the foot?   Interestingly, both of my wife’s stings were on her big toe (ouch!)  Seems like something as hard as tennis shoe rubber ought to top ‘em.  These are pretty small rays, maybe as big you our outstreached hand and fingers.

It’s possible it might stop such a small ray.  Never seen one that size.  The ones I’ve had experience with were about 3 feet wide across the wingtips and it wouldn’t even slow them down.  They put the barb through the top of the much harder rubber swim fins like it was butter and then went though the diver’s foot besides. One diver wasn’t so lucky and the barb missed the top of his foot slicing his leg open instead.  Not a pretty sight.  This happened while diving around the Santa Barbara Channel Islands (Anacapa & Santa Cruz Islands).  Convinced me to practice the "lazy foot" method in any area sting rays might be found.                                       Good Fishing,                                             Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

Response:

I agree with your ‘lazy foot’ recommendation. I’m not sure if that is why I haven’t been stung but am going to keep it up anyway. Charlie…

Response:

I fish in Mexico now and then around Rocky Point, in the upper Sea of Cortez. My wife and I like wading and casting to sea trout and pompano but the last two trips my wife stepped on a sting ray, which really put a damper on the rest of our fishing (her’s and mine). I’m curious to know how others have solved this problem.  I’m looking at Cabella’s flats wading bootie.  It seems like it protects the bottom of your foot and your toes but a big sting ray could still whack your upper foot and ankle (yeeeouch!). Any ideas?

I heard they wade in the Texas gulf with some kind of shin guards. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I fish in Mexico now and then around Rocky Point, in the upper Sea of Cortez. My wife and I like wading and casting to sea trout and pompano but the last two trips my wife stepped on a sting ray, which really put a damper on the rest of our fishing (her’s and mine). I’m curious to know how others have solved this problem.  I’m looking at Cabella’s flats wading bootie.  It seems like it protects the bottom of your foot and your toes but a big sting ray could still whack your upper foot and ankle (yeeeouch!). Any ideas? I heard they wade in the Texas gulf with some kind of shin guards. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Down here in Texas we call them land-mines. The shuffle step works just fine but if you are really worried they do make a hard plastic guard which wraps around your leg and rests on top of your shoe. I think the idea came from snake chaps used by folks in rattlesnake country. RAT

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I fish in Mexico now and then around Rocky Point, in the upper Sea of Cortez. My wife and I like wading and casting to sea trout and pompano but the last two trips my wife stepped on a sting ray, which really put a damper on the rest of our fishing (her’s and mine). I’m curious to know how others have solved this problem.  I’m looking at Cabella’s flats wading bootie.  It seems like it protects the bottom of your foot and your toes but a big sting ray could still whack your upper foot and ankle (yeeeouch!). Any ideas? I heard they wade in the Texas gulf with some kind of shin guards. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Down in Texas we do have shin guards for wading. But the best way is to shuffle your feet. A ray is prone to thinking that anything bumping it is probably another ray, but anything stepping on it is probably something out to, well, step on it! BTW, a friend of mine had shin guards on and was hit in the back of the calf. Shin guards now cover front and back of leg.

Response:

Question:

I am planning couple of days ffishing in Texas (anywhere between Matagorda and Brownsville) in middle February.  Any suggestions on guides specializing in flyfishing and wading as well as locations greatly appreciated. Thanks, Marek

Response:

I am planning couple of days ffishing in Texas (anywhere between Matagorda and Brownsville) in middle February.  Any suggestions on guides specializing in flyfishing and wading as well as locations greatly appreciated. Thanks, Marek

 Hello Marek, I spent a considerable amount of time in Laguna Madre.  I sea-kayaked from Corpu Christi down to Mexico.  I found the area around Port Mansfield to be fairly productive.  It is the off-season there so the guides will be looking for people to take out.  There is nothing in the town except one restaurant.  It is also a hotel.  On the way into town though, you will pass a hotel that is large.  I am not sure of the name.  The gentleman that runs this hotel is also a guide.  Very nice accomadations and very nice people.  I am sorry that I am so vague but if you happen upon this place, you will realize how small it is.  About 200 winter residents and about 6000 in the summer. I fished wherever I saw tailing reds. This was often.  Throughout the whole trip. Enjoy, Paul Johnson,

Response:

Eric Glass, Gibb Little and Skipper Ray all will take you fishing in the South Padre, Port Isabel area.  I’ve fished with Eric.  Keep in mind that the the weather is still a a little touchy in Feb.  We probably will still be getting the occasional norther. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning couple of days ffishing in Texas (anywhere between Matagorda and Brownsville) in middle February.  Any suggestions on guides specializing in flyfishing and wading as well as locations greatly appreciated. Thanks, Marek

Response:

Walt Kittleburger guides out of Port Mansfield.  Nobody is hard to find in Mansfield. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning couple of days ffishing in Texas (anywhere between Matagorda and Brownsville) in middle February.  Any suggestions on guides specializing in flyfishing and wading as well as locations greatly appreciated. Thanks, Marek  Hello Marek, I spent a considerable amount of time in Laguna Madre.  I sea-kayaked from Corpu Christi down to Mexico.  I found the area around Port Mansfield to be fairly productive.  It is the off-season there so the guides will be looking for people to take out.  There is nothing in the town except one restaurant.  It is also a hotel.  On the way into town though, you will pass a hotel that is large.  I am not sure of the name.  The gentleman that runs this hotel is also a guide.  Very nice accomadations and very nice people.  I am sorry that I am so vague but if you happen upon this place, you will realize how small it is.  About 200 winter residents and about 6000 in the summer. I fished wherever I saw tailing reds. This was often.  Throughout the whole trip. Enjoy, Paul Johnson,

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [some deleted] The gist was that FFF is in serious money trouble.  He didn’t give any details, so I don’t know how it happened, who is/are responsible, or what is being done to correct the situation, but one thing the organization is doing is raising annual dues to $29.00 to counter a dramatic decrease in membership. Greetings Granite. What on earth could the FFF done that would result in a *dramatic decrease* in membership ? "Hmmm….", he ponders deeply. Very interesting indeed. Is "the new flyfishing craze that is sweeping America" ebbing ? One can only hope. TimW

Amen to that.  I’m ready to pounce on all that barely used second-hand gear that will undoubtedly flood the classifieds if such an ebb occurs. Brett

Response:

Here is a forwarded response for wondering readers: To: Dave Richards Dave: A copy of your note about the Federation’s troubles was forwarded to me tonight, and I thought your questions deserved an answer. The simple answers are: — Yes, the Federation has financial problems. Who doesn’t? — Yes, membership is down. But that can be remedied. — No, we’re not even close to shutting down. Frankly, I see too many opportunities to even think about closing shop. I stepped in as president in August, not because I have any wish to preside over the Federation’s demise, but because there are so many things I want to do. And I intend to be quite aggressive in doing them. A few examples: — The FFF Clubwire. Quite an innovative news service intended to help club and council newsletter editors, who in the past have had to beg, borrow, steal material to fill their pages. Now, they have routine access to information from the Federation about education activities, conservation issues, Federation news and fly-fishing in general. This free service is available by E-mail to every FFF chapter and has been getting enthusiastic response since its introduction this past summer. — The Flyfisher is being redesigned to deliver a more-targeted message to our members. You’ll see the first changes in this upcoming issue. — You mentioned the upcoming increase in dues, but you’ve been given misleading information about the reason. I asked the board of directors in August to approve the increase, not to bail out our finances, but to allow the national office to begin paying money back to the councils. Simply put, national will rebate $5 back to the councils for every member they add as off Aug. 1, 1996. I don’t deny that I hope such a program will inspire the councils to work harder to generate more members, but the reasons go beyond that. The councils carry a great deal of responsibility and do a lot of the Federation’s work, and it’s about time they started getting some financial support from national. — In the past year or so, we’ve distributed something like $20,000-$25,000 in free rods and lines for clubs to use in their education programs. Perhaps you’re more interested in conservation matters. If so, it’s that much more important to keep the Federation around. We were instrumental in having the National Marine Fisheries Service invoke the Endangered Species Act in protecting West Coast steelhead this year; we sponsored the first symposium ever on saving searun cutthroat trout; we have been active in banning gill nets along the Gulf of Mexico; we joined a coalition to get the Magnuson Act reauthorized by Congress; we are sponsors of next year’s Wild Trout symposium; we are the experts on the relicensing of hydro dams and have been especially effective with this issue in the Great Lakes area; and we were an important voice in opposing the New World Mine adjacent to Yellowstone Park. And in a couple weeks, we’re hosting the only public forum (via our newly opened International Fly Fishing Center) designed to explain what’s going on with the damaged spring creeks near Livingston, Mont. We won’t take sides in this difficult situation, but we think it’s important that everyone have the chance to hear all the arguments. Please accept my apologies if I’m pummeling you with stuff. But I’m at work, it’s late and I’m trying to go home. If you still need answers, let me know. I’m happy to give them. In the meantime, let me assure you that the problems we face can and will be handled, and you’re going to see a much more active Federation than you might have otherwise expected. And pardon me if I revert to one of my favorite Mark Twain quotes: The news of our death is much exaggerated. Regards, Tom Jindra

Response:

I received a fairly disturbing communique recently from the head of the local chapter of the Federation of Fly Fishers.  I’m not sure when it arrived since I was out of town for a couple of weeks.  It could be old news, although I doubt it. The gist was that FFF is in serious money trouble.  He didn’t give any details, so I don’t know how it happened, who is/are responsible, or what is being done to correct the situation, but one thing the organization is doing is raising annual dues to $29.00 to counter a dramatic decrease in membership. I’m also a member of another national orgainzation unrelated to fly fishing that has undergone a similar near-disaster and has recovered.  In that case the financial disaster was directly related to bad advice from a tax attorney and fiscal incompetence on the part of the yahoos running the show.  It seems likely that something similar has tripped up FFF. I’m not interested in pointing fingers, except to say that the people responsible for mismanagement need to be put someplace where they can do no further harm and replaced with others who have a bit more savvy.  Then there is also the question of whether the organization can or even should be saved. Are there any FFF members out there with more info?  Please email me directly. Dave Richards

Response:

[some deleted] The gist was that FFF is in serious money trouble.  He didn’t give any details, so I don’t know how it happened, who is/are responsible, or what is being done to correct the situation, but one thing the organization is doing is raising annual dues to $29.00 to counter a dramatic decrease in membership.

Greetings Granite. What on earth could the FFF done that would result in a *dramatic decrease* in membership ? "Hmmm….", he ponders deeply. Very interesting indeed. Is "the new flyfishing craze that is sweeping America" ebbing ?   One can only hope. TimW

Response:

: The gist was that FFF is in serious money trouble.  He didn’t give any : details, so I don’t know how it happened, who is/are responsible, or what : is being done to correct the situation, but one thing the organization is : doing is raising annual dues to $29.00 to counter a dramatic decrease in : membership. Taxes? : I’m also a member of another national orgainzation unrelated to fly : fishing that has undergone a similar near-disaster and has recovered.  In : that case the financial disaster was directly related to bad advice from : a tax attorney and fiscal incompetence on the part of the yahoos running : the show.  It seems likely that something similar has tripped up FFF. Mmmmm, attorney-types, financial institutions, fiscal incompetence, and "yahoos" running the show. : I’m not interested in pointing fingers, except to say that the people : responsible for mismanagement need to be put someplace where they can do : no further harm and replaced with others who have a bit more savvy.  Then : there is also the question of whether the organization can or even should : be saved. I think ‘Merica is worth saving! : Are there any FFF members out there with more info?  Please email me : directly. : Dave Richards Not to muddy up Dave’s request for info, but reading his post looks like a study in current politics. It REALLY stood out. You’re on to something Dave. Remove all the incompetent leeches and start over. Bill You’re either for Perot-type changes or YOU are the problem.

Response:

Question:

Anybody know of a reputable flyfishing guide in the Marco Island, Naples Florida area? I’m going there second week of July and would like to book a trip or two. Thanks!!!

Response:

Anybody know of a reputable flyfishing guide in the Marco Island, Naples Florida area? I’m going there second week of July and would like to book a trip or two. Thanks!!!

Jim, Here’s a few that I’m aware of in the Naples area: Capt. Robert S. Collins Jr. 941-262-1970 Richard D’Onofrio 941-389-0114 Capt. Joe Wierback 941-643-4112 (home) 941-793-3370 (Fly Shop) Capt. Glenn Puopolo 941-594-1828 Capt. Jim Nickerson 941-353-5448 The word in the area is that all of the above are very good and USCG licensed. They all cover the areas of the Everglades, 10,000 Islands, Marco Island for Snook, Tarpon, Redfish, and Trout. Enjoy your trip Ken

Response:

Question:

Contact the Dakota Fly Fishers (FFF club) – pres. is Mark Olinger, 701-784-5550

Response:

I will be in Grand Forks, North Dakota in June this year. Are there any good fly fishing opportunities in that part of the country. Thanks

Response:

Question:

Hi Mike With out a doubt you should fish Oatka Creek just south of Rochester. I have had extremely good times on that creek. A shop called Carl Coleman Sporting Goods in Spencerport, just west of Rochester has various maps of the areas streams and creeks that are fishable. Carls shop is a somewhat good one. Say Hi to him from me. He can set you up with the correct flies and any other equipment. He has about 5 bamboo rods that I am trying to get off of him but he is always fishing when I call.   No more than a 5 wgt is needed on the majority of the inland creeks and lakes. If you are going for some Steelheads then you will need a 6-9 wgt rod. I use a 2 wgt rod on Oatka and have a ball using it.   The Genesee River is not doing real well for the past 3 years or so. Catch you later Mike & Marie

Response:

Mike: Oatka Creek (West of Rochester) is great in early May. The Henrickson hatch can be fantastic. Another place to try in the Rochester area is Spring Creek in Mumford (it empties into the Oatka). Also, Irondequoit Creek is on the other side of Rochester (East Side). Carl Coleman’s Fly Shop is located on the west side of town on 4786 W. Ridge Road. His phone number is 716-352-4775. Hope this helps. Bob Elliott

Response:

I will be going home for the first time in a long time to Rochester.  I would like to fly fish streams, lakes and or ponds in the area. Potentially in the Finger Lakes area as well.  Any suggestions as tackle, location etc. would be of great help.  Thanks. Tight Lines, Michael Barnes

Response: