Question:

What other forms of government issued id except for passport, driver’s license or state id card are valid for boarding a plane?  If I have a badge from a government agency that has my name and picture is that considered "governmnet issued"?   Bob

Response:

What other forms of government issued id except for passport, driver’s license or state id card are valid for boarding a plane?  If I have a badge from a government agency that has my name and picture is that considered "governmnet issued"?

In the past couple years I’ve flown with people from State, Justice, Homeland Security, and HHS and they’ve all managed with just their photo badge. If yours is from a satellite office of the Department of Collectible Miniatures Assessment or something then you might want to go ahead and dust off the driver’s license. miguel — See the world from your web browser: http://travel.u.nu/

Response:

This was before the 11th, but a Delta person explained it to me once (because my license was not with me at the time, I know, check before leaving home) that anything issued by any government would be OK.  Voter Reg, passport, fishing license, library card etc.  At the time if you didn’t have a photo ID then a government issued something and another piece of ID worked. I actually ended up using my car insurance ID card (had the state’s name on it and my name on it and another ID and they said OK to fly.  Running back to get it from the lot stunk, but I got on the plane. So, I would assume you would be ok with a badge and picture. As an aside, the photo ID or one government issued non photo and one other still appears to be in place at the airlines, this is from one site, so the library card and credit card would in theory still work, though I wouldn’t want to test it.  The Airline may use these guidelines to issue the ticket and boarding pass, though I don’t believe the TSA has anything other then a Photo ID in their policies. —-start All passengers over the age of 18 are required to provide positive identification for travel at check-in. A photo ID issued by a local, state or federal government agency, or two forms of non-photo ID (at least one issued by a local, state, or federal government agency, such as a Social Security card) are acceptable forms of identification to present at check-in. If traveling outside the country, please remember to keep your passport and/or travel documents on you or in your carry-on bag at all times. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What other forms of government issued id except for passport, driver’s license or state id card are valid for boarding a plane?  If I have a badge from a government agency that has my name and picture is that considered "governmnet issued"?   Bob

Response:

This was before the 11th, but a Delta person explained it to me once (because my license was not with me at the time, I know, check before leaving home) that anything issued by any government would be OK.  Voter Reg, passport, fishing license, library card etc.  At the time if you didn’t have a photo ID then a government issued something and another piece of ID worked. I actually ended up using my car insurance ID card (had the state’s name on it and my name on it and another ID and they said OK to fly.  Running back to get it from the lot stunk, but I got on the plane. So, I would assume you would be ok with a badge and picture.

Just last week, a friend of mine got to the airport and discovered that he’d grabbed his wife’s passport instead of his own on his way out the door that morning.  This friend doesn’t drive, so no license.  He went through everything in his wallet.  No picture cards or badges of any sort.   The check-in agent was apparently satisfied that he was who he said he was, and she told him that security would give him the full inspection. So he got the total body wanding and had all his carry-ons searched.  It was determined that he posed no threat to anyone and he got on the plane. His wife overnighted the right passport to his hotel. So the photo ID thing is mostly charade.  Considering that any 16-year-old knows where to get a fake ID, it seems rather pointless.

Response:

What other forms of government issued id except for passport, driver’s license or state id card are valid for boarding a plane?  If I have a badge from a government agency that has my name and picture is that considered "governmnet issued"?   Bob

For an authoritative answer, check with the airline. If you’re referring to a flight that originates in the United States, you can also probably find this information on the web at http://www.tsa.gov or perhaps at http://travel.state.gov

Response:

What other forms of government issued id except for passport, driver’s license or state id card are valid for boarding a plane?  If I have a badge from a government agency that has my name and picture is that considered "governmnet issued"?   Bob

Short answer – yes.

Response:

What other forms of government issued id except for passport, driver’s license or state id card are valid for boarding a plane?  If I have a badge from a government agency that has my name and picture is that considered "governmnet issued"?   Bob

In which country? Cheers, Jason.

Response:

Last year, my husband lost his driver’s license while we were down in Arizona.  He didn’t realize it until he was checking in at the airport. The only thing with his picture on it was his Jury license from the International Bobsled and Skeleton Federation.  He showed it and he was let through Security. Kitty Panza

Response:

Question:

Hey I wonder too.  I was swimming off the shore of NC once and saw something go by a few feet away that looked just like the fish in that picture. Is that possible? It looks like it has the body of a shark but the head of a ray.  Is that what the fish you saw looked like?

I couldn’t really make out the flat head.  But the length, color, and position of fins (sticking up through the surface) seemed the same.  Just wondering if they exist in the Atlantic also…

Response:

I met up with Lee along the western end of the 27 miles of coastline known as Malibu.  (a.k.a. sand shark among the locals) I’m assuming they’re not dangerous.

They have mouths that are similar to those of rays rather than true sharks.  Not dangerous. Mu

Response:

Hey I wonder too.  I was swimming off the shore of NC once and saw something go by a few feet away that looked just like the fish in that picture.  Is that possible?

It looks like it has the body of a shark but the head of a ray.  Is that what the fish you saw looked like? Mu

Response:

I met up with Lee along the western end of the 27 miles of coastline known as Malibu.  (a.k.a. sand shark among the locals) Great story.  I’m assuming they’re not dangerous.

Hey I wonder too.  I was swimming off the shore of NC once and saw something go by a few feet away that looked just like the fish in that picture.  Is that possible?

Response:

Mu, you paint a picture that we’d all love to be a part of. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

In article <Pine.SOL.4.33.0202051504270.9420-100000 [nice tr snipped] Hmm, I guess my recent attempt to repair the leak in my waders had not been successful.  Or had it? Mu

Thanks for both the TR and link Mu, Wet wading definately has advantages. Steve

Response:

Thanks Mu.  Used to surfcast (big old baitcasters) the beach there while waiting for the surf to come up for my knee board.  Loved sandsharks.  Those things will tow you to La Jolla and back.  Every now and then (once a year or so) you would get a big flounder (20lb plus) and take it up to Bolsa Chica and barbeque it.  Then again, sandshark tail tastes pretty good to. Thanks for the flashback. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

I met up with Lee along the western end of the 27 miles of coastline known as Malibu.  (a.k.a. sand shark among the locals)

Great story.  I’m assuming they’re not dangerous. There would be something very different about fishing for fish that might choose to attack you. Willi

Response:

Very nice trip report, I enjoyed reading it and shared the experience with Deb. Chris Fanning — keep ‘em coming

Response:

I met up with Lee ,snippered

nice tr mu…. thanks. –ww

Response:

hadn’t hit the beach in over a month but it was nice to get on the water once again.  Didn’t even check the tides.  If Lee said meet at 9 AM then that’s as good as time as any.

        spill the wine, take that girl.         great pictures.  can’t get that image in the blue ridge. thanks from your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

I met up with Lee along the western end of the 27 miles of coastline known as Malibu.  I hadn’t hit the beach in over a month but it was nice to get on the water once again.  Didn’t even check the tides.  If Lee said meet at 9 AM then that’s as good as time as any. We suited up and started wading in the direction of the big beach mansions.  I had a couple of hits but Lee had a steady string of barred surfperch of all sizes come to hand.  I was rusty, hooking up with only 10% of my fish and then landing only 50% of those.  We were using red Hulas, a fly invented by a fellow named Terry Baird and modified by Lee. After a while we switched to brown Surf Rats and the action picked up.  We talked about what the fishing’s been like recently and caught up on what’s going on with each other.  He had had a conversation with Emilio Estevez a few weeks before while fishing this beach.  Mr. Estevez seemed quite interested in fishing. Lee also told me that a movie was being filmed nearby.  We passed a house that was being prepped by a bunch of key grips and best boys and whatever else those guys are called – you know the wierd technicians’ designations you read at the end of movie credits.  Meanwhile a local TV news helicopter was buzzing overhead.  The copter’s shadow was right over the spot I was casting.  Sheesh.  It hovered directly above us for about 10 minutes before I hooked into a large fish. "Hey Lee, I don’t think this is a perch."  I was fighting the fish with just my line hand when all of a sudden the creature decided to head out to sea.  The fight was on but the copter took off.  Maybe there was a slow white Ford Bronco headed down the highway somewhere. "Hey Lee, I don’t think this is a corbina either."  40 feet of line.  70 feet of line. "Hey Mu, that’s your backing.  Hey, keep your rod tip down." "Hey Lee, I’ve got a wind knot in my tippet that I was too lazy to untie." Even though I began to think that this fish might never slow down, I cranked up the drag to the maximum setting.  I’d rather break off a fish by fighting it than just stand there stupefied as it rips all the line off my reel. On the sandy beaches of southern California there are no roots for a fish to tie up your line.  There’s no far bank, just the horizon.  There is no downstream which leads to the ocean – this is the ocean. "Hey Mu, look beneath the waves." I saw something large and dark heading towards Santa Barbara.  After a couple of long runs, I was able to use the waves to help bring the fish close to shore.  Eventually it was wallowing right around Lee’s ankles. He offered to tail it and I agreed but it wrapped around his boots and broke off. It was a shovelnose guitarfish (a.k.a. sand shark among the locals) Anyway I was howling with pleasure.  Lee got a better look at it than I did but he estimated it to be around 4 feet long.  Had it been a corbina he’d have jumped on it – he’s convinced he’s seen some recent fish that would easily have eclipsed the world record (fly caught). We headed back to our cars and called it a day.  I noticed a wet spot on the crotch of my sweatpants.  Hmm, I guess my recent attempt to repair the leak in my waders had not been successful.  Or had it? Mu Flies mentioned in this post can be seen at http://www.garybulla.com/surf_flies.htm They are rather simple designs that almost anyone can tie. A photo of a large guitarfish is shown at http://www.garybulla.com/images/surfpix/pages/sandshark.htm

Response:

Question:

Dear Sir,  Do you realize they have Lithium and Prozac among many other medications that can help with this problem?  Please walk, err RUN to your closest Dr. of Psychiatry and get some help!  The twitch and voices in my head were removed, I’m sure your voices can be put down as well….:) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We would like anyone in ROFF who does not wish to receive posts to their  private e-mail address to notify us who they may be so we may make a log.   Everyone  is considered operational unless we are notified otherwise in the next ten days.  This is a legal notice.

Response:

Legal notice to George Gehrke: Go fuck yourself for 10 days and get back on your meds. Any emails from you to my address will be considered harassment, and will result in a shitstorm of incredible magnitude raining down upon you. Yours truly, Bob Smith

Response:

Two years ago, many on roff gave us the challenge and after two years, we were able to come up with a fly rod for under the challenged price.

You lying old sack of puss. Two years ago the challenge was to produce a production bamboo fly rod for $300. Not a fly rod KIT, a fly rod, a fishable upon receipt fly rod for $300. You didn’t do it. You failed. So now you think you can change what the challenge was to this new twist of producing a "roll your own" kit rod for $300 or less. You are such a fucking moron George. Do you really thing everybody here who’s had to live with your crap for the last two years will buy this new story from you. God, you are a miserable excuse for a human being. KMA, Bob

Response:

Dear Sir,  Do you realize they have Lithium and Prozac among many other medications that can help with this problem?  Please walk, err RUN to your closest Dr. of Psychiatry and get some help!  The twitch and voices in my head were removed, I’m sure your voices can be put down as well….:)

What, you would deprive Mr. Gehrke of ALL human intercourse?  For shame sir! Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <More lunacy snipped I would seriously advise anybody even considering posting an e-mail to this person, for whatever reason, to be extremely careful.  There is no telling where your address might end up. The person is obviously unbalanced, and in need of treatment. While this is unfortunate, it will not save anybody involved from the possibly unfortunate consequences, and probable misery involved. Yes, exactly.  Why anyone would feel obliged to respond to what is essentially a threat is beyond me.  Best to just let it be.  If you receive spam as a result of your participation on ROFF, simply deal with it as you would any other spam, by contacting the ISP of the offending party. JR

or check the law.  washington state has pretty strict laws on unsolicited e-mail… don’t know the specifics, but if he spammed me via e-mail i might just have to look into it. chris

Response:

You lousy son-of-a-bitch. Unsolicited commercial e-mail of any kind will result in a complaint(s) to your ISP(s). It’s bad enough that I have to wade through your SPAM on ROFF.  It’s illegal and against all of the Usenet rules I’m aware of, both formal and informal. Now you want to start sending me SPAM directly? As the high and mighty judge of all things ethical and moral, you should know better than to try and pull some stunt like this one. How about this: You make a one-time SPAM posting to alert all interested ROFFians (there might even be three or four of them) that if they would like to recieve e-mails from you that they can go to your website and subscribe to your mailing list.  I’m sure that the response would be overwhelming. Legal Notice.  Ha!  What you are contemplating is definitely illegal.  You should fire your attorney, George, and so should your ISP if they truly believe that an illegal post to a public newsgroup constitutes any sort of ‘legal notice’. George, you need help.  Mental help, legal help, and then some.  Perhaps an in-patient program might suit you better than the current out-patient one that continues to allow you to embarrass yourself in front of God and everybody. Here’s my legal notice, Mr. Gehrke, DO NOT EVER SEND ME ANY COMMERCIAL E-MAIL. Tom G constantly amazed

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We would like anyone in ROFF who does not wish to receive posts to their  private e-mail address to notify us who they may be so we may make a log.   Everyone  is considered operational unless we are notified otherwise in the next ten days.  This is a legal notice. Our company and web site is available for any technical questions regarding fly fishing.  Our chat site will become active under a new provider who honors any commercial comments as long as they are posted in chat sites and/or talk groups like Roff.  This new change will prevent problems regarding fly fishing content and values that are posted in the best interests of the industry and individuals world wide who ARE interested in certain commercial aspects regarding FLYFISHING Finally, THIS COMPUTER is a business computer and every man, woman or child in the world may post to this E-Mail Address which may include questions, comments, orders, and requests.  This  open door policy for free speech includes everyone.  Anyone wishing to talk with us over an extended period of time may do so on http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting 7 PM evenings. Bad manners, name calling, or bad language will not tolerated at: http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting up again after a long absence for operations and plant construction and expansion. Anyone who has any questions should email us.  The new e-mail site is Please make a note of it. Thank you, COMMENTS TO GEORGE AT THIS EMAIL ADDRESS FROM NOW ON.

Response:

We would like anyone in ROFF who does not wish to receive posts to their  private e-mail address to notify us who they may be so we may make a log.   Everyone  is considered operational unless we are notified otherwise in the next ten days.  This is a legal notice.

I can’t f*&%#$% belive this bullshit. You want me to email you to tell you I’m not interested in your new line. I’ve got a better idea I’ll save this tread and send it to your ISP along with a couple of responces to other threads and let them deside. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Our company and web site is available for any technical questions regarding fly fishing.  Our chat site will become active under a new provider who honors any commercial comments as long as they are posted in chat sites and/or talk groups like Roff.  This new change will prevent problems regarding fly fishing content and values that are posted in the best interests of the industry and individuals world wide who ARE interested in certain commercial aspects regarding FLYFISHING Finally, THIS COMPUTER is a business computer and every man, woman or child in the world may post to this E-Mail Address which may include questions, comments, orders, and requests.  This  open door policy for free speech includes everyone.  Anyone wishing to talk with us over an extended period of time may do so on http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting 7 PM evenings. Bad manners, name calling, or bad language will not tolerated at: http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting up again after a long absence for operations and plant construction and expansion. Anyone who has any questions should email us.  The new e-mail site is Please make a note of it. Thank you, COMMENTS TO GEORGE AT THIS EMAIL ADDRESS FROM NOW ON.

Response:

You lousy son-of-a-bitch. …

Amazing how the Village Idiot manages to self-destruct every so often. Quite convenient really, it’ll be awhile before anyone has to explain to indignant newbies why the old fool is so despised on ROFF. Hey Zimbo, here’s another classic for ginkstinks.org. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Georgie,    Send nothing.  This is official notice.    Send nothing. Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George,    If I read this right, you’re claiming that you intend to SPAM us all in ten days if we don’t request that you not do that.  I believe that the insertion of "nospam" in my return address is sufficient notice that I don’t want any unsolicited email.  Others who use their address untampered are already accustomed to SPAM and probably want it.   If you do start a SPAM campaign, I’m sure you’ll incur further wrath here, and I suspect some might launch a SPAM campaign of their own.  I wouldn’t participate in that sort of thing. By no means will I be spamming you.  If I write you at your private e-mail address it will never have spam in it Charlie.  For you or anyone.  I don’t do that sort of thing.  I did it once by mistake and boy, never again.  What I’m saying is you’re welcome to always write me as long there is no spam involved either way, okay? No, I am not claiming that in ten days there will be spam from us.  Yet, what some regard as spam is not. Our new Provider says a special report as we posted which others think is spam in a news group, is NOT.  Neither do they consider commercial comments in normal conversation in chat sites spam.  Spam is when (as far as they are concerned) when one takes a mailing list and puts out a commercial message.   That IS spam and I don’t do that. Two years ago, many on roff gave us the challenge and after two years, we were able to come up with a fly rod for under the challenged price.  We have another surprise but I’m not going to post it here.  Roffians will  have to come to our chat site tommorow and ask about it. Anyhow Chuck, to get the kept promise to the thousands of people who have been waiting, our singular web site would not reach them all as once.  Since the problems and the huge sums spent by me are in part the responsibility and doings of ROFFIANS who egged and prodded and helped and who offered their undying support, the best way to communicate that singular report after two years of effort was to post it on ROFF where it belonged.  ROFF owes me at least THAT! So, what I’m asking you now is this.  We may write to each other e-mails but we agree not to spam.  I can handle that just fine.  I don’t spam on e-mails anyhow but then again, we answer a lot of questions regarding fly fishing and products with e-mail but only when requested. Fair enough Charlie? George Gehrke Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at:                http://MailAndNews.com Create a new mailbox, or access your existing IMAP4 or POP3 mailbox from anywhere with just a web browser.

Response:

<SNIP P.S.  Ordinarily, (until I know for sure) I would post this response to you via e-mail Charlie because it doesn’t belong here for public review.  To me, this should be a private conversation between two reasonable men.

No way you are ever going to have such a private conversation then?   What a pity. Perhaps you will be lucky and find a discussion partner as unreasonable as yourself?  A tall order of course, but doubtless you can do it. You can do everything, you said so yourself, so it must be true. ( Awed whispers from off) ( The Mighty and Unholy Gink bows low, seeming unsure of what he knows for sure, apparently hoping against hope that somebody will jump on his shoulders, and then slithers off on his own slime trail for another we). MC

Response:

Gehrke writes: Snipped redundant remarks:

(giant snip) George, you are insane.  You need help. Dave

Response:

Providers, such as the one we just hired, will allow a commercial post in news/talk groups …

Right up until the time they lose their first upstream feed. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

George, in which legal jurisdiction is your rather dubious looking legal notice enforceable? Certainly not mine, that’s for bloody sure.   You do realise this is a world-wide forum don’t you? If I see spam from you in ROFF again, I will (again) complain to your ISP. If I see spam from you in my mail box, I will complain to your ISP. Nice sales pitch from your new provider BTW, either they are a bigger bullshit artist than you are or they are severely deluded. Steve

Response:

<silliness snipped… All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy…

Response:

Our new Provider says a special report as we posted which others think is spam in a news group, is NOT.  Neither do they consider commercial comments in normal conversation in chat sites spam.  Spam is when (as far as they are concerned) when one takes a mailing list and puts out a commercial message.   That IS spam and I don’t do that.

Ask them if they know what a UDP is. — Charlie…

Response:

<nonsense snipped I would never stand on your shoulders, I am quite careful at avoiding crap on my shoes. Providers can not "allow" commercial posts to newsgroups, it does not lie within their power to do so. Try sending a few, and see what happens. Strange as it may seem, and in spite of your congenital idiocy, I assumed that you would have grasped this relatively simple concept by now.  How many providers have thrown you out?   Forgotten? Oh well, ask the next couple what they think, assuming you are a customer long enough of course. The day I need an explanation of Usenet ( or anything else for that matter), from you, I will shoot myself as being no longer a viable proposition for normal existence. I don

Question:

finer tippets and different flies till ya get it figured out…..have the local shop recommend a fly or two.

And that would be Tulpehocken Creek Outfitters in West Reading.   Helpful, good guys in my limited experience there.    (On W. Penn Ave.?  Tom?) Joe F.

Response:

One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning around.  Well  not to keep yammering on and on i’ll close  here and thanks in advance for any and all info. minkaz

As a newbie you will want to get some basics down and have confidence they are working for you.  I suggest you switch to a #14 Royal Wulff dry on a 5X tippet.  If you are using a tapered leader get one which goes down to 5X.  IF you have plenty of casting room get your line into the air and false cast letting out a little line as you go until you get 30 ft. or so out then lay it on the water.  Add power to your strokes as you add line.  Finesse and control will come with practice. Make sure to hold the line in your opposit hand and running over your rod hand index finger.  Watch the fly and at the strike set the hook with the LINE hand and not the rod.  Tightening up on the rod with the index finger at the same time also gives you a quicker set response. DO NOT TAKE YOUR EYES OFF THE FLY NOR DROP THE LINE!  This is important for a newbie to get used to the strike response. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

Response:

: Are you hauling or just casting?  If you’re double hauling and only getting 20 : feet, you do have a problem.  If you are just "flipping" the line, learn to : haul. To get past 20′ you *do not* need to learn to haul!

Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO. TC, R

Response:

Goldens?  In NE PA?  Um……no, I don’t think so.  You might want to have another look at your field guide. The fish commission here has an excellent stocking program.. They release 50 or 60 goldens in this area as trophy fish each year.  It is true however that we have no natural goldens.

Wow this guy’s pretty good – way to keep your cool minkaz. I’m more concerned with getting a good presentation at this point than distance.

Good man! Regards, Jeff

Response:

I’m was casting about 20 ‘ of fly line.

So that’s roughly a 30′ cast. You can catch a lot of fish with that, as long as the surface isn’t real smooth or the trout wary. Regards, Jeff

Response:

Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO.

A cast of 30 feet is more than adequate in most stream situations, especially when fishing dries like the gentleman was describing. ALL anglers can control drag and make more accurate presentations and cast at shorter distances. Few, even experienced anglers, can really control drag and presentation on a stream at distances over this.  Instead of trying for more distance, my advice would be to first learn to: cast accurately within this 30′ distance stalk and wade carefully control drag make a "delicate" presentation control the line make reasonable fly selections Willi

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Are you hauling or just casting?  If you’re double hauling and only getting 20 : feet, you do have a problem.  If you are just "flipping" the line, learn to : haul. To get past 20′ you *do not* need to learn to haul! Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO. TC, R

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Um, I didn’t say you did, _but_ to get (long) distance, you *do* need to learn to haul, and it especially important with "basic" equipment (one can do a lot of things if one has no regard for equipment), so they may as well learn now.  That said, the poster gave very little info, but _seemed_ to want distance – "Any tips on increasing distance?"  IMO, yes – learn to haul.  If you disagree, you’re wrong, but I’ll agree to disagree.  Also, learning to haul will, IMO, help with casting/timing/"feeling" in an all-around fashion, but that _is_ JMO. A cast of 30 feet is more than adequate in most stream situations, especially when fishing dries like the gentleman was describing. ALL anglers can control drag and make more accurate presentations and cast at shorter distances. Few, even experienced anglers, can really control drag and presentation on a stream at distances over this.  Instead of trying for more distance, my advice would be to first learn to: cast accurately within this 30′ distance stalk and wade carefully control drag make a "delicate" presentation control the line make reasonable fly selections

Agreed, somewhat.  Originally, I was simply addressing the distance question, but I do think learning to haul is a needed skill.  I will admit I may have being somewhat presumptive, but I did think by "distance" the poster meant more than going from 20 feet to 30 feet.  Usually when someone on ROFF (especially newbies) brings up distance, they seem to mean "casting tourney" distances, and, IMO, even the lower end of that range is nearly *impossible* (I’d say *_IMPOSSIBLE_*, but I never say that…<G) without a double haul, especially with an novice and a fishing-built rod, much less a vet and a tournament-built rod (which is why they are/were two different rods).  If you care, look up some of my posts for my opinions on the "gotta go long" thinking. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Willi

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Nahhhh.  You go JeffC.  Just let us know how it works out

Hmm, half the shit I get is for complaining to much and not contributing too discussions actually related too fly fishing.  Half the shit I get is for adding to much too fly fishing discussions.  The other half of the shit I get is for being a general wiseass, jackass, or just plane pimply white ass.  I’m sure you’ll understand if I just post what I want to — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

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As a newbie you will want to get some basics down and have confidence they are working for you.  I suggest you switch to a #14 Royal Wulff dry on a 5X tippet.

But wouldn’t you want to know what kind of water he’s fishing before recommending a fly like that?  All we know so far as that where he’s fishing is: "small creek about 15 feet across.  I found a nice pool that’s is really close to crysal clear."  It could be a smooth surfaced, clear spring creek.  We also know he’s getting a lot of refusals.  Would you recommend the same or different fly for that? — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

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We also know he’s getting a lot of refusals.

Correction – he’s getting rises but not hooking them – don’t know if they are refusals or not. — Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

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(uninformed snipped) Regards, Jeff

On Eastern streams the RW is an excellent all-a-round searching pattern well suited for small stream use.  His objective here is to "learn the methodology" and take a few fish.  He will get enough takers on the size and fly type recommended to develop the striking technique, have a fly visible enough to watch on the surface to develop his line handling techniques, and a "close enough" match to many hatches in the region this time of year.  Entomology, selective line handling, water reading, and casting improvement will be developed over time with on-water practice. — Wayne To fish is human….To release Divine! Before you buy.

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As a newbie you will want to get some basics down and have confidence they are working for you.  I suggest you switch to a #14 Royal Wulff dry on a 5X tippet. But wouldn’t you want to know what kind of water he’s fishing before recommending a fly like that

    i don’t give a damn if you are fishing the lava flow in hawaii, or the runoff from victoria falls.  if there’s a trout in the water, he will come about as close to hitting a rw as anything else. wayno

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Are you casting 20 feet between you and the fly, or 20 feet of flyline? It may not be that you’re jumping the gun, but of course it might  They may be rising to it but not actually taking it in their mouths.  You could try a more sparsely tied fly (for example a thorax or no hackle instead of a Wullf style, if the water is fairly flat).  Or you could just try a size or 2 smaller.  Or you could try a longer, lighter tippet. Regards, Jeff

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You MAY be setting the hook to fast.  Then again you may not be fast enough.  Fish will spit anything that doesn’t feel right.  Timing is critical. If you’re getting fish to rise to your fly you don’t need to cast any further.  Don’t worry about it. Distance will come with practice. Goldens?  In NE PA?  Um……no, I don’t think so.  You might want to have another look at your field guide.

The fish commission here has an excellent stocking program.. They release 50 or 60 goldens in this area as trophy fish each year.  It is true however that we have no natural goldens.  I was just out for a little bit this morning and the casting is coming along due to some really good advice.  I’m more concerned with getting a good presentation at this point than distance.   just looking ahead for some pond/lake fishing but for now i’m happy as a clam at the creeks and streams in the area..   thank again for all the info minkaz

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Are you casting 20 feet between you and the fly, or 20 feet of flyline? It may not be that you’re jumping the gun, but of course it might  They may be rising to it but not actually taking it in their mouths.  You could try a more sparsely tied fly (for example a thorax or no hackle instead of a Wullf style, if the water is fairly flat).  Or you could just try a size or 2 smaller.  Or you could try a longer, lighter tippet. Regards, Jeff

I’m was casting about 20 ‘ of fly line.  i’ve gotten better today though so the distance is coming.. I received some info stating i was probably moving the rod too much and it was the case…   i had a little rainbow on this morning but it spit the hook.  still lots of fun though. be going out later. thanks again minkaz

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Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.  I’ve gotten my cast down pretty good well good for the creek i fish..  I can’t get decent distance but the presentation seems to be not too bad.  Any tips on increasing distance?  I’m only getting about 20 feet now, which is about double what i was getting heheeh. Now for the big question.. I’ve been fishing for trout in a small creek and  i’ve been using dry flies and have gotten a lot of hits.. fishing is good here in NE PA.  However i can’t seem to get a good hookset or any hookset for that matter…. probably me jumping the gun but any advice on this would be appreciated. Equipment i’ve been using is a cheap combo i wanted to try out just to get into it a bit more to see if i liked it before investing a ton of cash.  It’s a pflueger rod 5-6   using a #6 wf flyline and a tapered leader.  whole thing cost me about 35 bucks and i’ve gotten some activity from the trout just can’t seem to land one.   One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning around.  Well  not to keep yammering on and on i’ll close  here and thanks in advance for any and all info. minkaz

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Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.  I’ve gotten my cast down pretty good well good for the creek i fish..  I can’t get decent distance but the presentation seems to be not too bad.  Any tips on increasing distance?  I’m only getting about 20 feet now, which is about double what i was getting heheeh.

Are you hauling or just casting?  If you’re double hauling and only getting 20 feet, you do have a problem.  If you are just "flipping" the line, learn to haul. Now for the big question.. I’ve been fishing for trout in a small creek and  i’ve been using dry flies and have gotten a lot of hits.. fishing is good here in NE PA.  However i can’t seem to get a good hookset or any hookset for that matter…. probably me jumping the gun but any advice on this would be appreciated.

1st, sharpen your hooks, then work on your technique – practice, practice, practice. Equipment i’ve been using is a cheap combo i wanted to try out just to get into it a bit more to see if i liked it before investing a ton of cash.  It’s a pflueger rod 5-6   using a #6 wf flyline and a tapered leader.  whole thing cost me about 35 bucks and i’ve gotten some activity from the trout just can’t seem to land one.  

IMO, the cost of the equipment shouldn’t be the deciding factor in catching fish and see above about practice. One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning around.  Well  not to keep yammering on and on i’ll close  here and thanks in advance for any and all info.

Then they almost certainly realize something’s up.  Perhaps a further description of your tackle and typical conditions.  What patterns are you using? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -minkaz

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Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.

        ken fortenberry is our on duty newbie advice person this week, minkaz, and it would appear that he is temporarily occupied elsewhere. i am quite certain that he will return shortly with a wealth of information for you.  if he doesn’t show in an hour or so, email me with specific questions and i will do the best i can to be of assistance. wayno         p.s.:  what kind of vehicle do you own?

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Any tips on increasing distance? check out books and videos from the library Equipment I’ve been using is a cheap combo

good for you…money aint the thing…. One of the biggest problems i see are the fish going right up to the fly and kind of nosing it and turning a round. finer tippets and different flies till ya get it figured out…..have the local shop recommend a fly or two. flies, finer tippets and sneaky’s the key….for now anyhow

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Nahhhh.  You go JeffC.  Just let us know how it works out (notwithstanding the Richardson Lady.  For GOD’S sake, don’t make her mad…). Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello all I’ve been reading this newsgroup for a few days and have gotten a wealth of information from it.  I am new to fly fishing and am looking for some advice.         ken fortenberry is our on duty newbie advice person this week, minkaz, and it would appear that he is temporarily occupied elsewhere. i am quite certain that he will return shortly with a wealth of information for you.  if he doesn’t show in an hour or so, email me with specific questions and i will do the best i can to be of assistance. wayno         p.s.:  what kind of vehicle do you own?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Then they almost certainly realize something’s up.  Perhaps a further description of your tackle and typical conditions.  What patterns are you using? typical conditions where i fish are:  small creek about 15 feet across..  I found a nice pool that’s is really close to crysal clear. i’ts over 6.5 feet deep i know due to me being a newbie at rock climbing also lol.   anyway i’ve been seeing lots and lots of trout in the pool and also at the far end of it in the shallows.  i caught a golden there the other day with my ultralight.  patterns?  i have no idea i’ve been tying on so many different flies and just going with what they chase. So far what’s worked best is an ant and anything that has some yellow or brown color in it.   I have had a few bites but the old heart got pounding and i guess i went to set the hook to fast. Hopefully i’ll settle down with that or i’ll be moving into a cardiac care center.  Again thanks for all the replies

You MAY be setting the hook to fast.  Then again you may not be fast enough.  Fish will spit anything that doesn’t feel right.  Timing is critical. If you’re getting fish to rise to your fly you don’t need to cast any further.  Don’t worry about it. Distance will come with practice. Goldens?  In NE PA?  Um……no, I don’t think so.  You might want to have another look at your field guide.

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   ken fortenberry is our on duty newbie advice person this week, minkaz, and it would appear that he is temporarily occupied elsewhere. i am quite certain that he will return shortly with a wealth of information for you.  if he doesn’t show in an hour or so, email me with specific questions and i will do the best i can to be of assistance. wayno    p.s.:  what kind of vehicle do you own?

hehe i drive an old 79 ford f150 pick up that i’m in the process of restoring.. but i’m not a plummer hehehehe

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Then they almost certainly realize something’s up.  Perhaps a further description of your tackle and typical conditions.  What patterns are you using?

typical conditions where i fish are:  small creek about 15 feet across..  I found a nice pool that’s is really close to crysal clear. i’ts over 6.5 feet deep i know due to me being a newbie at rock climbing also lol.   anyway i’ve been seeing lots and lots of trout in the pool and also at the far end of it in the shallows.  i caught a golden there the other day with my ultralight.  patterns?  i have no idea i’ve been tying on so many different flies and just going with what they chase. So far what’s worked best is an ant and anything that has some yellow or brown color in it.   I have had a few bites but the old heart got pounding and i guess i went to set the hook to fast. Hopefully i’ll settle down with that or i’ll be moving into a cardiac care center.  Again thanks for all the replies minkaz

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Question:

Hell, man, you might have something here.  But, something *is* missing.  If you contact Ken Fortenberry on these pages, he can advise you of a certain "device".  If added to your "invention" it would make for the complete angler.  Joy, Joy, Joy. Dave

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everything snipped – hope you saw it the first time Man, that’s an effort.  Have another drink – you deserve it. mark faulkner

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Ever wondered what to do when the fish weren’t showing? Ever been distracted from your reverie by a fish showing?   Ever need to practise night casting during the day? Are you a purist who only fishes dry-fly and then only to fish you have not seen? Is catching a fish almost incidental to the experience?   Well, now you can practise night casting, reduce distraction, develop your blind searching strategies AND reduce the chances of catching fish simply by closing the 99.99999% opaque, 45+  UV filtered, scratch resistant, laminated and virtually indestructible visor of the BS-666.   No, its not just a motorcycle helmet with an opaque mask, the BS-666 is so much more, and it will make catching fish so much more difficult than you _EVER_ imagined possible: Made from ultralight graphite, machined from solid stock and modelled on the exquisite, entirely un-aerodynamic shape of the stealth bomber this helmet is packed with features including: – Super-duper, world’s best micro CD player.     * Get that retrieve rhythm just right. – Digital video camera, recorder and Heads up display.   Imagine being able to:     * Record the moment when a famous old bastard watched you deliver the       cast of a lifetime.     * Record the moment when an infamous old bastard delivered the cast of a       lifetime.     * Have instant replays of all the inaction.     * Watch other envious fishers watching you watching them.     * use a PC c/w hatch mismatch software and wrist mount keyboard – Satellite Link     * Get updates on the latest fishing equipment developments on usenet.     * Surf the web while you wait for a rise to stop or         * Use the internet to do your banking, purchase your next rod, etc. This would appear to be a painfully large quantity of equipment to carry around on your head.  However, the unit :     * is solar powered (battery packs are available for night-time use)     * uses nano technolgy for increased miniaturisation     * uses a patented helium-filled bubble wrap lining that reduces       both the load and ambient noise simultaneously.     * has aeration provided through a series of laser trimmed       worm holes, the twist and rifling of these holes being designed to       minimise ‘roaring’ that can be annoying in a breeze (ever been in       car travelling with an open rod tube lashed across the roof). The BS is in no way sticky or tacky in texture, in fact fitting the BS is enhanced by the lumpy bubble wrap lining which reduces surface-to-surface contact (the only contact with your head is at the very apex of the bubbles) and therefore friction. Proprietary cleaning products are required so that the the bubbles’ interstices are not clogged. Bubble Interstice No Clog cleaner, or BINC, has been designed just for this purpose and is also an excellent trophy cleaner. (*PHEW* nearly forgot that.)   Safety features abound also – for instance there is an ~optional~ Safe Personal Area Motion Detection and Laser Targetting system (your choice of armament depending on local statutes and/or personal taste) for use in areas frequented by large carnivores or black helicopters. (Use the SPAMDLT suffix when ordering eg. BS-666/SPAMDLT).   Do the Scandinavian countries have carnivores large enough to be a problem, Europe in general? I suppose the former Soviet arctic regions have bear, and Kashmiri may encounter the odd tiger ? I know the South Africans have a few beasties to deal with,  while here in Aus. the odd snake -both kinds- , or a croc up north, is about all we have to fear.  Of course the Kiwis, Scots, English and Irish have little to fear apart from a keeper or warden, or perhaps a feral spouse – perhaps there is a market there afterall. So, no matter where you live, in what corner of the World, for the ultimate in your blind search fishing pleasure and personal security, nothing and I mean *NOTHING* compares with the BS-666/SPAMDLT fishing helmet.   Expressions of interest are sought, so respond by email as it would be a misuse of usenet to continually post product updates to myriads of people the world over who are totally uninterested in these fine products. From your responses I will generate a mailing list which I will share with you all, (if you accede to it of course), and we can all swap update information and personal experiences.  Alternatively, you will be able check the website www.mybs.com which will be up  sooner or later ….         formulae, recipes and plans of the BS-666, the SPAMDLT options and         BINC will have been disposed of by the time you have read this UPDATE.   steve Just in case there is any confusion:   This post is meant to be humourous and a tad serious, and a small tad at that.   It is not meant to deride, denigrate, cast aspersions, nasturtiums,   or any other missile, animal vegetable or mineral, at any race or creed.  

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Question:

This got me to thinking:  At what distance do you normally catch your fish?  For me the answer is less than 50 feet, usually more like 30 feet.  On the rivers I fish, if I drop a dry   100 feet up-stream and I get an immediate rise, I can’t set the hook. Now, this just might be this old curmudgeon’s inability to react in time, but I don’t think so.  

The areas I fish are usually less than 40ft across, so I rarely have out more than 30ft of line out.  When trying to reach a section just off the opposite bank and up/downstream a bit I’ll have maybe 50ft out.  I find that presentation is FAR more important than distance, so I use lightweight slow action rods most of the time. It’s fine by me if everyone wants the extra-fast actions, it makes those the high-end/high-priced models and I can get a slow/moderate action rod for cheaper.  To each his own. Later,      - Ken — "To listen to some devout people, one would imagine that God never laughs."         – Ghose Aurobindo

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<<G  Been there.  Done that.  Possible exception being the Chatooga. Dave

True, but even there most of my casts are pretty short (sometimes just due to other fishermen<g). The only times I’ve really _had_ to cast a long ways have been in saltwater. Like you said, presentation (and line control) are more important to the way I normally fish than distance. — Charlie…

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I got started in fly fishing in a tournament casting club.  I really enjoyed the competition and it greatly enhanced my fishing skills. The advantage of distance casting, I find really depends on the type of fishing your involved in.  As you say, with trout I probably catch most my fish within 50 feet.  However, in the Salt for bonito the longer the cast the longer the retrieve and more water covered.  Sometimes lake fishing I see fish rising at quite a distance and the long cast allows me to catch the fish. I love to fish for Bluegill,  those little buggers are always located way back behind the reeds and I’m fishing from shore.  The long cast with my 4 wt is critical for this type of fishing. The long cast is not always necessary, but it sure is a handy tool.  So I’ll give you my answer to those trying to find a better casting rod.  The better casting rod is found in your closet, the trick is to force it to practice, practice, and then practice it some more.  This method for creating a better casting rod is so good that the rod will even teach the other rods in your closet how to cast better!! Good Luck, Bill — William Endicott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At a recent fly fishing show, I saw folks trying their damndest to get as much line out as possible — regular Lefty Kreh’s they were.  Now, double hauling might be important when fishing salt, but I fail to see why *distance* is the primary concern when casting.  Double haulting a 3 or 4 weight?  Presentation is more important than distance (imho) when fishing with light tackle to trout and salmon, yet here stands a guy double hauling a 3 weight and doing his utmost to get to the end of the casting pool, instead of seeing how lightly he can place the casting yarn on the water, how easily he can turn over the leader. This got me to thinking:  At what distance do you normally catch your fish?  For me the answer is less than 50 feet, usually more like 30 feet.  On the rivers I fish, if I drop a dry   100 feet up-stream and I get an immediate rise, I can’t set the hook. Now, this just might be this old curmudgeon’s inability to react in time, but I don’t think so.   When nymphing, my casts are typically only 20 feet, the less line on the water the better, but I may cast farther simply to let the fly sink to the correct zone. I would appreciate your comments.  Why the macho distance crap with light tackle? Dave LaCourse

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Now saltwater, there’s a place you need to cast distance.  Because the thing is, even if you don’t need to throw your whole line, you ned the technique that enables you to.  Why?  Wind.  In the salt, you’re quite often casting into very stiff breezes, where throwing forty or fifty feet of line requires the same mechanics that throwing 80 – 100 feet does.

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At a recent fly fishing show, I saw folks trying their damndest to get as much line out as possible — regular Lefty Kreh’s they were.  Now, double hauling might be important when fishing salt,

There is a difference between "fishing" and "casting".   Are you sure those guys were not just "feeling" the new rod out? A lot of the competition casters would push a new rod to find its limits and get a "feel" for the rod. Whenever I go to a casting pond, I’d work on certain aspects of casting stroke, be it timeing or power snap etc. I’d double haul a 3 wt if I feel I need to work on the timing aspects of the haul etc.. A 3 wt will not tire me out as much as a 5wt or 8 wt, and I get more out of a practice session when I am not tired and fighting the rod all the time. In other words, I practice "casting", not "fishing" at the casting pond. I fish Deschutes all the time, and I rarely think about loop control, timing or any other aspects of casting when I am on the river; it’s all automatic. I also rarely use more than  20 feet of line when I am fishing. In other words, I just fish whenever I am on the river.

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Mr. G. —

Question:

I’ll be taking a trip to Los Angeles next week.  Anyone know of places near LA/SD for saltwater fly fishing?    Mu Young Lee         Ann Arbor,MI  o             oooo                          o   o   o o   o o o  o

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King harbour, Redondo Beach, renown for 1/2 bonita on the fly.  See "inside Angler"

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Question:

Greetings fellow fur floggers, I have sent the controls to create this newsgroup.  If I have done it right, this should start appearing on newsservers shortly.  Please post a fishing image to help legitimize the ng.   We decided on .fishing, so that it will allow us to grow it to .fishing.fly, .salt, .naked or whatever.   Pray for the new group…(Or as they say in The Ghosts in the Darkness) Prey for the new group. TimW

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Greetings fellow fur floggers, We decided on .fishing, so that it will allow us to grow it to .fishing.fly, .salt, .naked or whatever.  

Given the sex-site spammers that have overrun all the .bin groups I bet you’re not far off with that.  The group appeared here today, so I’ll be looking for posts. — Derek R. Larson           Indiana University       Department of History   "Eastward I go by force, but Westward I go free!"  -H. D. Thoreau

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just a reminder of this groups existence and a call for posts there…it is starting to get some quality images in it. Tks. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Can’t get the group.  My ISP swears I have access to all the groups. Anyone have any ideas? — Mark N. Cahill For E-mail remove the _Remove_This from the reply to address. http://www.geocities.com/Baja/3297

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just a reminder of this groups existence and a call for posts there…it is starting to get some quality images in it. Tks. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

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Question:

Hello,   How can I find out more about flyfishing rivers in Middle Tn.?

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Hello,  How can I find out more about flyfishing rivers in Middle Tn.?

Hi Kevin You will probably get an answer from someone on this newgroup.  However if you do not don’t dispair, call the Federation of Fly Fishers and ask about a club in your area.  Get the contact info from the FFF and call the club contact person (usually the president).  From there you can get information, join the club, make new fishing friends, etc. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

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Question:

Will be in Lake Almanor, No. CA area end of May.  Any suggestions on good streams, patterns, etc.? Sincerely, William Collins

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Will be in Lake Almanor, No. CA area end of May.  Any suggestions on good streams, patterns, etc.? Sincerely, William Collins

Hi-    You might go 10 miles downstream to Butt Lake. PG&E is draining it and the fish will be concentrated. They might also be dead, but hey, it’ll be worth a shot.    Failing that you can go Yellow Creek, a cute but highly over rated spring creek a few miles west of Almanor.    Lake Almanor itself should be good. The smallmouth should be turned on. Fish the rocky points with buggers. As an added bonus you can "accidently" whack jet skiers with your backcasts. Great fun.    -Ralph —

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