Question:

i-81, north of syracuse, turn right…  hmmm, sounds like another snipe hunt…  but, after participating in a few hundred of them, i’m still tryin to get the hang of it.  so, pencil me in. jeff (more simpler) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’ve never fished naw yuk… so, plug me in as a definite maybe… but 2 days might not be ’nuff.  …um, how do you get to allmur? It couldn’t be more simple.   If’n you can get to I-81 anywhere between Tennessee & New York, you’ve got it licked.   If you’re starting out in the I-95 corridor, pick the east/west interstate of your choice.   Once you’re on I-81, stay on it until about 35 miles north of Syracure and turn right. At that point, you’re as good as there. Joe F.

Response:

you got a cah? …i got a truk.  …but, if a truk will do, where is altmar? jeff Find Lake Ontario on a map of NY. Can’t miss it. Look for the big blue thing in the upper left.

FYI.   I think that this year was one of the best I have had in many years, I spent a total of about 4-5 weeks on and off,  fishing there. I have been fishing the Salmon River for over 18 years.  The Salmon run started the first week in September, and my last trip finished up Sunday November 10th.   To my amazement the Kings were still running into the river, and I found that most were still in excellent shape. Finished up the last day with a catch of 3 browns, ranging between 7-10lbs., one Steelhead rather small and several Kings.  All were released.   Arty PS, only broke one fly rod this season. Art(Arty)Santella

Response:

Unbelievably, it’s time to start considering whether or not you’re interested in a repeat (and hopefully, an improvement) on the 2002 Salmon River mini-clave.   In 2003, we will not be staying at Malinda’s, only because she is already booked up for every weekend through October 19 (as is the Portly Angler and Whitaker’s). Rather than push the dates back and risk missing too much of the prime run, Craig & I have found another lodge that promises better accommodations than Malinda’s (I know, "How is that possible?" you ask.) and that actually has rooms available for the earlier weekend. So – if you are thinking you might want to book a room at clave central next year, October 16-19, 2003, email me & I’ll give you the location.   Or, if there’s enough tentative interest at this early date, I’ll just book a second (or third?) room as I did last year. Joe F.

Response:

So – if you are thinking you might want to book a room at clave central next year, October 16-19, 2003, email me & I’ll give you the location.   Or, if there’s enough tentative interest at this early date, I’ll just book a second (or third?) room as I did last year.

FYI:   I’ve received enough "maybes" that I went ahead and booked a 4-person efficiency at the "Fish Inn Post" (www.fishinnpost.com) in Altmar, NY for the nights of 10/16/03 through 10/18/03.   I will put down the deposit & hold this room for potential miniclavers.   I have never been to this lodge & can’t attest to anything about it, but how bad could it be, eh? That ought to cover it until next summer, I’d expect.   We’ll talk then. Joe F. p.s.   If anyone would like a recommendation for a good guide, I’d recommend Pat Miura (http://members.aol.com/pmiura/index.html).   I know he’s booked for Saturday, 10/18, but it’s not too early if you want to grab a different day.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So – if you are thinking you might want to book a room at clave central next year, October 16-19, 2003, email me & I’ll give you the location.   Or, if there’s enough tentative interest at this early date, I’ll just book a second (or third?) room as I did last year. FYI:   I’ve received enough "maybes" that I went ahead and booked a 4-person efficiency at the "Fish Inn Post" (www.fishinnpost.com) in Altmar, NY for the nights of 10/16/03 through 10/18/03.   I will put down the deposit & hold this room for potential miniclavers.   I have never been to this lodge & can’t attest to anything about it, but how bad could it be, eh? That ought to cover it until next summer, I’d expect.   We’ll talk then. Joe F. p.s.   If anyone would like a recommendation for a good guide, I’d recommend Pat Miura (http://members.aol.com/pmiura/index.html).   I know he’s booked for Saturday, 10/18, but it’s not too early if you want to grab a different day.

I’ve stayed here a fw times and it’s a step up from Malinda’s. Paul

Response:

i’ve never fished naw yuk… so, plug me in as a definite maybe… but 2 days might not be ’nuff.  …um, how do you get to allmur? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – FYI:   I’ve received enough "maybes" that I went ahead and booked a 4-person efficiency at the "Fish Inn Post" (www.fishinnpost.com) in Altmar, NY for the nights of 10/16/03 through 10/18/03.   I will put down the deposit & hold this room for potential miniclavers.   I have never been to this lodge & can’t attest to anything about it, but how bad could it be, eh?

Response:

i’ve never fished naw yuk… so, plug me in as a definite maybe… but 2 days might not be ’nuff.  …um, how do you get to allmur?

cah

Response:

you got a cah? …i got a truk.  …but, if a truk will do, where is altmar? jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’ve never fished naw yuk… so, plug me in as a definite maybe… but 2 days might not be ’nuff.  …um, how do you get to allmur? cah

Response:

you got a cah? …i got a truk.  …but, if a truk will do, where is altmar? jeff

Find Lake Ontario on a map of NY. Can’t miss it. Look for the big blue thing in the upper left. Altmar is about 10 miles east of the lake and about 5 miles east of Pulaski. Paul

Response:

i’ve never fished naw yuk… so, plug me in as a definite maybe… but 2 days might not be ’nuff.  …um, how do you get to allmur?

It couldn’t be more simple.   If’n you can get to I-81 anywhere between Tennessee & New York, you’ve got it licked.   If you’re starting out in the I-95 corridor, pick the east/west interstate of your choice.   Once you’re on I-81, stay on it until about 35 miles north of Syracure and turn right. At that point, you’re as good as there. Joe F.

Response:

Question:

My only experiece with spawners has involved brookies. I have , for many years, observed them spawning. Many fall fishing trips have turned into fish watching expeditions. One thing I have noriced, is that anything that drifts into the redd will be challenged, usually by the Alpha male. Many times the offending object is picked up and spit out by the fish. When the Alpha male leaves the redd, a bunch of smaller males will rush in and attempt to fertilize the eggs, only to be violently chased out when the big guy returns. Other fish on the redd will also go after foriegn objects if the Alpha male doesn’t respond. Brookies will occassionally "take a break" from the redd, and feed for a while in the adjacent area. This "break" can last from a few minutes to over an hour. Brookies do not always form redds from scratch, but will utilize a gravel area that is kept clean by streamflow. Don’t know if this adds anything to the discussion, but thought I’d throw it in. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

Fishing on the redds, eh? There’s a lady over in rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater looking for info on Christmas Island. Isn’t that what they call a non sequitur?

Not if the little old lady is Marge Shott. FiddleAway

Response:

My only experiece with spawners has involved brookies. I have , for many years, observed them spawning. Many fall fishing trips have turned into fish watching expeditions. One thing I have noriced, is that anything that drifts into the redd will be challenged, usually by the Alpha male. Many times the offending object is picked up and spit out by the fish. When the Alpha male leaves the redd, a bunch of smaller males will rush in and attempt to fertilize the eggs, only to be violently chased out when the big guy returns. Other fish on the redd will also go after foriegn objects if the Alpha male doesn’t respond.

Geez. All this time I thought I was the only unethical SOB on ROFF who fished on redds.

Response:

One thing I have noriced, is that anything that drifts into the redd will be challenged, usually by the Alpha male. Many times the offending object is picked up and spit out by the fish. Other fish on the redd will also go after foriegn objects if the Alpha male doesn’t respond.

The same is very true of salmon apparently and as a result, that is exactly the behavior the guide was targeting with the ultra-light, ultra-small natural approach.  The trick is to learn the feel of the fly being sucked in and responding with a very quick, but relatively light hook set (the guide referred to it as a "pre-set"), before the fish spits it out again.  Once you get that feel dialed it is amazingly repetitive.  We were disproportionately successful to those fishing nearby for two days by nearly 4 or 5 to one.  That seemed to hold true for others we encountered in the fly shops and around town, as well.  What others were describing as slow days on the river were some of the most successful days of fishing in my life. I am now a firm convert to this method, where applicable. TL Zippy

Response:

Geez. All this time I thought I was the only unethical SOB on ROFF who fished on redds.

Never said I fished ‘em…only observed.{:-) Actually, I used to fish redds, but gave it up after It finally dawned on me that the fish would take just about anything, and were damn near impossible to spook. They’d scatter, but be back on the redd within minutes. Haven’t been able to spy on the little buggers this fall as the prime viewing area has been placed off limits due to the threat of terrorist activity. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The only thing I can think of was that it drifted into her   redd. Any other  ideas? I’ve been trying to find time to put together a trip report on the Salmon River for a month now, but it involved a local guide teaching me a new way (new to me, at least) of targeting salmon.  It centered around small…very small…seemingly improbably small….naturals on frightfully light tippets.  It was outstandingly successful…so much so, that under similar circumstances, I would be hard pressed not to use his method as the "go to" approach. Anyhow, his theory centered around not only a "housekeeping" attitude, but a general territorial defense response, especially for competing males. Got to find a few minutes to cobble that TR together for contribution…. TL, Zippy

Id be very interested to hear this approach as  I fish  Pulaski often and would prefer a method that didn t involve, lots of luck or  outright snaggin MT

Response:

There’s a lady over in rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater looking for info on Christmas Island. Isn’t that what they call a non sequitur?

christmas island is a non sequi-tour?  how much does it cost? jeff (who’s taken too many sequi-tours)

Response:

Id be very interested to hear this approach as  I fish  Pulaski often and would prefer a method that didn t involve, lots of luck or  outright snaggin MT

I’ll get on about writing the TR this weekend, Mark.  I’ll try to give a better description of the setup and approach.  Still managed to tail snag about 4 of ‘em that trip, but for the first time salmon fishing, I didn’t feel like I was relying entirely on luck, so I know the feeling well. TL, Zippy

Response:

Id be very interested to hear this approach as  I fish  Pulaski often and would prefer a method that didn t involve, lots of luck or  outright snaggin MT I’ll get on about writing the TR this weekend, Mark.  I’ll try to give a better description of the setup and approach.  Still managed to tail snag about 4 of ‘em that trip, but for the first time salmon fishing, I didn’t feel like I was relying entirely on luck, so I know the feeling well. TL, Zippy

Will look forward to it. My  arm gets real tired of trying to drag a salmon hooked in the top fin sideways thru fast water <G  MT

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Id be very interested to hear this approach as  I fish  Pulaski often and would prefer a method that didn t involve, lots of luck or outright snaggin MT I’ll get on about writing the TR this weekend, Mark.  I’ll try to give a better description of the setup and approach.  Still managed to tail snag about 4 of ‘em that trip, but for the first time salmon fishing, I didn’t feel like I was relying entirely on luck, so I know the feeling well. TL, Zippy Will look forward to it. My  arm gets real tired of trying to drag a salmon hooked in the top fin sideways thru fast water <G  MT

the best solution for large foul hooked fish is to simply point the rod at the fish and break it off.  my opinion is that a fly stuck on a fish causes less stress than the longer landing time required for foul hooked fish (especially those hooked on the back or the tail).  since in most places one must release any foul hooked fish, this is my preference with the accidental foul hooked fish. chris

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Id be very interested to hear this approach as  I fish  Pulaski often and would prefer a method that didn t involve, lots of luck or outright snaggin MT I’ll get on about writing the TR this weekend, Mark.  I’ll try to give a better description of the setup and approach.  Still managed to tail snag about 4 of ‘em that trip, but for the first time salmon fishing, I didn’t feel like I was relying entirely on luck, so I know the feeling well. TL, Zippy Will look forward to it. My  arm gets real tired of trying to drag a salmon hooked in the top fin sideways thru fast water <G  MT the best solution for large foul hooked fish is to simply point the rod at the fish and break it off.  my opinion is that a fly stuck on a fish causes less stress than the longer landing time required for foul hooked fish (especially those hooked on the back or the tail).  since in most places one must release any foul hooked fish, this is my preference with the accidental foul hooked fish. chris

Hi Chris  I  do  folow this practice, tho sometimes it s 10 mins into the fight and about 100 yards  down river…..  MT

Response:

Fishing on the redds, eh? There’s a lady over in rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater looking for info on Christmas Island.

Isn’t that what they call a non sequitur? Tell here there are no redds at Christmas Island.

Response:

Fishing on the redds, eh?

There’s a lady over in rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater looking for info on Christmas Island. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

The only thing I can think of was that it drifted into her   redd. Any other  ideas?

I’ve been trying to find time to put together a trip report on the Salmon River for a month now, but it involved a local guide teaching me a new way (new to me, at least) of targeting salmon.  It centered around small…very small…seemingly improbably small….naturals on frightfully light tippets.  It was outstandingly successful…so much so, that under similar circumstances, I would be hard pressed not to use his method as the "go to" approach. Anyhow, his theory centered around not only a "housekeeping" attitude, but a general territorial defense response, especially for competing males. Got to find a few minutes to cobble that TR together for contribution…. TL, Zippy

Response:

  I was fishing in Oswego  for trout  coming in  from the lake. Some nice  rainbows, steel head and Browns  had been taken that day. Most of the  fisherman were using  egg patterns or egg sacks. Deciding something different might work I tried  a  Size 8 stone fly nymph.  The line came to a stop, I  set the hook  and about 10 minutes later landed  a female King that was ready to spawn. Why would she have taken a nymph? The only thing I can think of was that it drifted into her   redd. Any other  ideas?  MT

Response:

  I was fishing in Oswego  for trout  coming in  from the lake. Some nice  rainbows, steel head and Browns  had been taken that day. Most of the  fisherman were using  egg patterns or egg sacks. Deciding something different might work I tried  a  Size 8 stone fly nymph.  The line came to a stop, I  set the hook  and about 10 minutes later landed  a female King that was ready to spawn. Why would she have taken a nymph? The only thing I can think of was that it drifted into her redd. Any other  ideas?

    Being a pregnant female, she probably mistook it for chocolate.

Response:

… landed  a female King that was ready to spawn. Why would she have taken a nymph? The only thing I can think of was that it drifted into her redd. Any other  ideas?

Housekeeping. I caught Muskegon steelhead the same way. They don’t eat, of course, but they will clear insects out of their redds. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

… landed  a female King that was ready to spawn. Why would she have taken a nymph? The only thing I can think of was that it drifted into her redd. Any other  ideas? Housekeeping. I caught Muskegon steelhead the same way. They don’t eat, of course, but they will clear insects out of their redds.

Fishing on the redds, eh?

Response:

 The line came to a stop, I  set the hook  and about 10 minutes later landed  a female King that was ready to spawn. Why would she have taken a nymph? The only thing I can think of was that it drifted into her redd. Any other  ideas?

I dunno, but up there I really try to avoid egg patterns unless I’m desperate.   Lots of nymph patterns work well, & I saw a guy last year catch about a 20-pounder on a GR Hare’s Ear.  FWIW Joe F.

Response:

Question:

   I wonder if the ironing bit is just precaution  or from experience in dealing with some  customers.

Probably experience unfortunately. . . .<g — Warren Findley www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

I ripped a couple of holes in the knees of my breathables at Henry’s Fork. I patched them up well and they no longer leak. Bruce told me of a product that is used to retreat Goretex which will provide a fresh waterproof coating to the outside fabric. Has anyone here used such a product? Willi

I feel for you.  I tore a couple of big holes in my new breathables (in the thigh) back in June.  I have some big patches and blobs of Aquaseal on them which although unsightly (not as unsightly as the wearer) do the job.  I’m really intrigued by the sunpatch<sp? you referred to in an earlier post.  I missed most of a day of fishing waiting for the Aquaseal to harden (and I did use the Cotol accelerant). I doubt there’s any product that can retreat Goretex (or the other breathable membrane products).  Goretex is a thin membrane with really small holes in it.  Any treatment would just clog the holes.  You’re best bet is to find the big holes and fill them up with some kind of goo. I have heard about a treatment product (Nik Wax?) that can be used on the outer surface of things like jackets.  This is applied to the outer layer (nylon, Cordura) to help shed water.   I have reservations about using that on things that are supposed to be breathable – they might help water shedding, but would also block vapor flow.  I would be really reluctant to use such a product on waders. –Stan

Response:

SunPatch has worked great for me, almost instant set in the sun. Unfortunately, last Monday night camping in the backcountry, I poked a hole in my Thermarest pad with a feed through needle knot tool tying on a new leader set up for a friend.  It was 38 degrees, not good for sleeping directly on cold ground after a hard day.  SunPatch may have worked great but will not set/cure ever until put in sun light.  In the future I am carrying both, SunPatch and Aquaseal. Scott

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I ripped a couple of holes in the knees of my breathables at Henry’s Fork. I patched them up well and they no longer leak. Bruce told me of a product that is used to retreat Goretex which will provide a fresh waterproof coating to the outside fabric. Has anyone here used such a product? Willi I feel for you.  I tore a couple of big holes in my new breathables (in the thigh) back in June.  I have some big patches and blobs of Aquaseal on them which although unsightly (not as unsightly as the wearer) do the job.  I’m really intrigued by the sunpatch<sp? you referred to in an earlier post. I missed most of a day of fishing waiting for the Aquaseal to harden (and I did use the Cotol accelerant). I doubt there’s any product that can retreat Goretex (or the other breathable membrane products).  Goretex is a thin membrane with really small holes in it.  Any treatment would just clog the holes.  You’re best bet is to find the big holes and fill them up with some kind of goo. I have heard about a treatment product (Nik Wax?) that can be used on the outer surface of things like jackets.  This is applied to the outer layer (nylon, Cordura) to help shed water.   I have reservations about using that on things that are supposed to be breathable – they might help water shedding, but would also block vapor flow.  I would be really reluctant to use such a product on waders. –Stan

Response:

look for "Tech Wash" by NikWax. The back label reads: "…gently removes dirt. Residue free, non detergent soap protects water repellancy of all breathable fabrics". I boat my wife a goretex coat a couple of years back and this was what the specialist shop recommened be used. They told me water repellancy is degraded when goretex gets dirty. As far as I understand goretex is a waterproof membrane as opposed to other products that are coatings applied to nylon or polyester.

I’ll have to try that.  I usually just use Shout, but I don’t know if that helps protect water repellancy.  BTW, you are correct about the Gore-Tex just being a membrane.  It is sandwiched between a few layers of fabric because the actual Gore-Tex layer is very thin and is kind of like working with a piece of saran wrap. — Warren Findley www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

look for "Tech Wash" by NikWax. The back label reads: "…gently removes dirt. Residue free, non detergent soap protects water repellancy of all breathable fabrics". I boat my wife a goretex coat a couple of years back and this was what the specialist shop recommened be used. They told me water repellancy is degraded when goretex gets dirty. As far as I understand goretex is a waterproof membrane as opposed to other products that are coatings applied to nylon or polyester. — RalphH

Response:

—– Original Message —– I ripped a couple of holes in the knees of my breathables at Henry’s Fork. I patched them up well and they no longer leak. Bruce told me of a product that is used to retreat Goretex which will provide a fresh waterproof coating to the outside fabric. Has anyone here used such a product?

Two things that might be of interest here Willi.  Some people were asking about cleaning waders so here is that info.  I tried getting it the other day, but Simms website was down.  If you want to check out the website, just click on the technologies menu and then Gore-Tex fabric.  At the bottom of that page are a bunch of questions.  Click on them to get the answers. "For your Simms/Gore-Tex Waders: Use a pre-wash treatment, such as Shout. Clean waders, either in the bathtub or in the machine on gentle (in cold water). Allow to dry completely. Some stains, such as fly dressings or sap, may be untreatable, but will not affect the breathability of the product. For Gore-Tex Rainwear: Use a pre-wash treatment (such as Shout

Question:

In another post I wrote that I was experimenting with two and three dry fly rigs, and that the big stimulator in front helped me see takes on the small flies that I couldn’t see. It occurred to me that in some situations, like dim light or glare, an indicator could be useful when fishing small dry flies, but I’ve never heard of anyone recommending this. I suppose it’s not the purest of pure dry fly fishing. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

RW: I know that you are not as clumsy as I am, but I would suggest being sure you have bent the barbs down on all the flies that you tie on the leader…I know that any flies that do not have fish on them seem to hook me on a regular basis and the flies are less painful to remove from me if the barbs are bent down. Big Dale

Response:

I don’t know that I’d *recommend* it, but one of the people I fish with had on a big wool indicator for nymphing and switched to a small BWO when we saw a few come off.  He left the indicator on – funniest thing I ever saw on the river (no, wait, he also wears Aqua Stealth shoes, so I’ve seen a few funnier things).  He did catch fish and nobody else on that stretch caught anything on a BWO.  Whether luck or a good idea, I can’t say.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In another post I wrote that I was experimenting with two and three dry fly rigs, and that the big stimulator in front helped me see takes on the small flies that I couldn’t see. It occurred to me that in some situations, like dim light or glare, an indicator could be useful when fishing small dry flies, but I’ve never heard of anyone recommending this. I suppose it’s not the purest of pure dry fly fishing. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I don’t know that I’d *recommend* it, but one of the people I fish with had on a big wool indicator for nymphing and switched to a small BWO when we saw a few come off.  He left the indicator on – funniest thing I ever saw on the river (no, wait, he also wears Aqua Stealth shoes, so I’ve seen a few funnier things).  He did catch fish and nobody else on that stretch caught anything on a BWO.  Whether luck or a good idea, I can’t say.

I usually just look for the rise when I’m fishing a small fly that I can’t see, but I think that often the fish just gently sip the fly in and I never see the take. That’s what was happening when I was using the big stimulator as an indicator. It would sink, I’d strike, and I’d have a fish on the small dropper dry fly. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

In another post I wrote that I was experimenting with two and three dry fly rigs, and that the big stimulator in front helped me see takes on the small flies that I couldn’t see. It occurred to me that in some situations, like dim light or glare, an indicator could be useful when fishing small dry flies, but I’ve never heard of anyone recommending this. I suppose it’s not the purest of pure dry fly fishing.

I’ve done that, and originally got the idea as a recommendation in a ffing book. The two applications I saw for this were fishing hatches so heavy that it’s hard to keep track of your artificial amid the naturals, and fishing very small patterns especially at a distance. I used this system a few years back, fishing to midging trout on the Bighorn. It was a lot easier to keep track of the yarn indicator than the #20-22 flies I was using. Also, using the yarn as a locator, I could often spot the fly itself. Maybe not the purest method, but it worked well. — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Thanks Possibly I can get a answer from IGFA before we go. I can almost see it going either way – Actually I guess its not very different from the way most tube flies are constructed since the head and front fly is mounted on the shock tippet. On my tubes I am using 90# wire with the 2nd tube between the 2 tandem hooks and then attaching the leading hook to the shock with a cinch knot and placing  a foam head and the leading tube mounted on the shock tippet. I am using owner AKI’s so the snelling doesn’t work – they don’t have turned up eyes like the octopus hooks he’s using. He’s not really planning on conforming to IGFA anyways and is planning to use 3-4′ shocks. I was just intrigued by the simplicity of his rigs. On the landing: On all my gear trips the standard has been to "leader" a billfish to boat to be released or brought in for pictures, but on standard gear the leader is like 10′ long.  I am planning to use about 4′-5′ total leader including class and shock. I seem to recall reading somewhere, or being told by a captain, that a billfish was "caught" or the "landing phase starts" when either the leader or class tippet went inside the first guide or something. After that the mate could leader the fish  to control it while gaffing, netting, billing  or releasing. Reeling down to the class shouldn’t be a major problem, but trying to "leader" a billfish at 3′-4′ sounds very dangerous. On most of my other offshore flyfishing experiences we were either gaffing or netting the fish so, it wasn’t much of an issue using very short leaders. I hope to get to read an actual IGFA book this weekend – maybe it will clarify the specifics. Thanks again for the info.

  Hello   I also submitted this question to the Igfa site under construction but I   don’t know if they are set up to give responses yet.     I was wondering what the IGFA states concerning Shock tippets and tandem   flies.     It’s my understanding that the shock tippet length can be up to 12" to the   eye of the leading hook on a tandem fly and the max distance between tandem   hooks on a fly is 6" eye to eye.     1. Does the shock tippet require a separate connection at the fly or can the   shock leader be snelled to the first hook then the tag end of the same line   be attached to the back hook?  That would total 18" of the same shock   tippet – class to trailing hook.   If I understand what you mean, no.  The best rule of thumb is to use tackle that   won’t raise eyebrows, i.e., "usual and customary" (and taint a record with the   "technical record" charge).     A friend of mine is rigging some flies like this for Billfish.  Although the   fly would only have "one shot" (until the shock tippet was damaged) the   connection is very clean, straight running, and seems to give an extra 6" of   shock.   See above.       Also I have another nagging basic question.   2. When is a fish considered "caught" on fly gear – so someone else can   touch the line or leader  and assist in the landing or releasing the fish.   Is the when the leader goes in the rod tip? the class line, the shock?   something else?   Absolutely no touching the leader before the fish is "landed" and only in   gaffing or netting.  If someone else helps before the fish is brought to gaff,   DQ.   The above is solely my opinion, based on my knowledge only (I’ve read the rules,   and have only a passing knowledge, I don’t fish for record/trophy anymore).  If   you are going for record, you captain should have a working and ready knowledge,   as well as a copy of the rulebook to refer to.  If you are going on a bareboat   for record, get a copy of the rules from the IGFA (they are in Ft. Lauderdale –   561 area code).   HTH?   R

Response:

Thanks   Anyone have a URL for the IGFA fly fishing rules online?   I tried www.igfa.org  - under construction   Does anyone have the rules posted on their pages?   Thanks     Google turned up this one:   http://www.wolfffishing.com/ingamfisasru.html   —   Charlie…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello I also summited this question to the Igfa site under construction but I don’t know if they are set up to give responces yet. I was wondering what the IGFA states concerning Shock tippets and tandem flies. It’s my understanding that the shock tippet length can be up to 12" to the eye of the leading hook on a tandem fly and the max distance between tandem hooks on a fly is 6" eye to eye. 1. Does the shock tippet require a separate connection at the fly or can the shock leader be snelled to the first hook then the tag end of the same line be attached to the back hook?  That would total 18" of the same shock tippet – class to trailing hook.

If I understand what you mean, no.  THe best rule of thumb is to use tackle that won’t raise eyebrows, i.e., "usual and customary" (and taint a record with the "technical record" charge). A friend of mine is rigging some flies like this for Billfish.  Although the fly would only have "one shot" (until the shock tippet was damaged) the connection is very clean, straight running, and seems to give an extra 6" of shock.

See above. Also I have another nagging basic question. 2. When is a fish considered "caught" on fly gear – so someone else can touch the line or leader  and assist in the landing or releasing the fish. Is the when the leader goes in the rod tip? the class line, the shock? something else?

Absolutely no touching the leader before the fish is "landed" and only in gaffing or netting.  If someone else helps before the fish is brought to gaff, DQ. The above is solely my opinion, based on my knowledge only (I’ve read the rules, and have only a passing knowledge, I don’t fish for record/trophy anymore).  If you are going for record, you captain should have a working and ready knowledge, as well as a copy of the rulebook to refer to.  If you are going on a bareboat for record, get a copy of the rules from the IGFA (they are in Ft. Lauderdale – 561 area code). HTH? R

Response:

Anyone have a URL for the IGFA fly fishing rules online? I tried www.igfa.org  - under construction Does anyone have the rules posted on their pages? Thanks

Response:

Anyone have a URL for the IGFA fly fishing rules online? I tried www.igfa.org  - under construction Does anyone have the rules posted on their pages? Thanks

No, but rule did you need info on? R

Response:

Anyone have a URL for the IGFA fly fishing rules online? I tried www.igfa.org  - under construction Does anyone have the rules posted on their pages? Thanks

Google turned up this one: http://www.wolfffishing.com/ingamfisasru.html — Charlie…

Response:

Hello I also summited this question to the Igfa site under construction but I don’t know if they are set up to give responces yet. I was wondering what the IGFA states concerning Shock tippets and tandem flies. It’s my understanding that the shock tippet length can be up to 12" to the eye of the leading hook on a tandem fly and the max distance between tandem hooks on a fly is 6" eye to eye. 1. Does the shock tippet require a separate connection at the fly or can the shock leader be snelled to the first hook then the tag end of the same line be attached to the back hook?  That would total 18" of the same shock tippet – class to trailing hook. A friend of mine is rigging some flies like this for Billfish.  Although the fly would only have "one shot" (until the shock tippet was damaged) the connection is very clean, straight running, and seems to give an extra 6" of shock. Also I have another nagging basic question. 2. When is a fish considered "caught" on fly gear – so someone else can touch the line or leader  and assist in the landing or releasing the fish. Is the when the leader goes in the rod tip? the class line, the shock? something else? Thanks for any insights you might have on these questions Anyone have a URL for the IGFA fly fishing rules online? I tried www.igfa.org  - under construction Does anyone have the rules posted on their pages? Thanks

No, but rule did you need info on? R

Response:

Question:

I was organizing my fly box and found that some of the flies had hooks which were rusty. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts about what should be done with these flies  -  should they be thrown out, could they be repaired, does it matter that I use rusty hooks when fishing, etc. As well, is there a way of ensuring that hooks will not rust after use. Any thoughts are much appreciated. Jon H.

Response:

Not sure I would use rusty hooks. You can prevent hooks from rusting in the future by making sure they are dried out before sticking back into fly box. Most logical approach is to dry them all on a table after a day’s fishing and then place them back into dry fly box for storage before next trip.(hopefully a short time) Regards from Montreal John Brkich

Response:

I was organizing my fly box and found that some of the flies had hooks which were rusty. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts about what should be done with these flies  -  should they be thrown out, Jon H.

Yes! Yes! Yes! Throw out! Just your luck someday you’ll hook the best trout of your life – some magnificent rainbow, 6/8 pounds – he’ll leap out of the water and show you his beauty and grace. Your heart will start to race and then he’ll break off.  When you reel in you’ll notice he didn’t bust your leader, or pop the fly off the end. You’ll notice the bend of the hook broken off.  OUCH!! Joel Axelrad

Response:

I was organizing my fly box and found that some of the flies had hooks which were rusty. Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts about what should be done with these flies  -  should they be thrown out, could they be repaired, does it matter that I use rusty hooks when fishing, etc. As well, is there a way of ensuring that hooks will not rust after use. Any thoughts are much appreciated. Jon H.

  Flies are designed to deteriate quickly in wet conditions for the fished sake. At the cost of flys dump any rusted,aint woth lost fish. next time you get back from fishing open the box so moisture isn’t traped. In the south east your air conditioner will dry them, in the south west the dry air does the trick. In the rest of the country, the wifes hair dryer works well.                                                          John Popp                                                       in Sanford Fl.

Response:

Question:

Hey, I’m new to fly fishing, and I’ve got a realatively inexpensive outfit that I use for grayling up here in Alaska. Now, it’s my understanding that to make the dry flys float, you spray them with a silicon type sealer and rub it in, right?  Now, I have a jar of Aladdin Magic Lube II silicone lube/sealant in a clear, jelly form. Can I use this? thanks Timothy Murphrey North Pole Alaska

Response:

that I use for grayling up here in Alaska. Now, it’s my understanding that to make the dry flys float, you spray them with a silicon type sealer and rub it in, right?  Now, I have a jar of Aladdin Magic Lube II

1.  No.  Dry flies made sparsely on lightweight hooks with good hackle or dubbing should float by themselves:  and when soaked should dry to float again with one crack of the whip.  (Beware this!  Every crack weakens the nylon tippet.  That’s why you deliberately avoid this in casting.) 2.  Silicone or other waterproofing treatments help flies float in non-standard conditions, e.g. big bushy flies on broken water.  There are now so many chemicals, from ancient wax in naphtha to modern Scotchgard that you can use whatever you like.  But avoid excessive complications, i.e. use no chemicals unless necessary. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Question:

<< An Orvis bobber. Peter

Indicator’ pretty good Pete. Pete, wait until George sees my new Orvis Zebra line.  He’ll plop that scrawny  ass of his down on a rock and probably will never get up!  <G  I have decided that I *will* show up in full Orvis mufi.  I am having trouble trying to rent an Orvis Jeep, however. Dave PS:  Gladys, get the man a few drams of the old Grouse — he looks pale behind the gills!

Response:

Pete, wait until George sees my new Orvis Zebra line.  He’ll plop that scrawny  ass of his down on a rock and probably will never get up!  <G  I have decided that I *will* show up in full Orvis mufi.  I am having trouble trying to rent an Orvis Jeep, however.

I don’t think they make Orvis Jeeps anymore, but one of their catalogs had some D90’s in it so I should be in good shape<g. — Charlie…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – << An Orvis bobber. Peter Indicator’ pretty good Pete. Pete, wait until George sees my new Orvis Zebra line.  He’ll plop that scrawny  ass of his down on a rock and probably will never get up!  <G  I have decided that I *will* show up in full Orvis mufi.  I am having trouble trying to rent an Orvis Jeep, however. Dave PS:  Gladys, get the man a few drams of the old Grouse — he looks pale behind the gills!

—

Question:

Hi Don Have you ever fished the Sawyer version of the PT?  Personally I like it better than the present day version with a peacock thorax.  I use an electric drill to spool the motor winding wire so I can use a bobbin to tie the fly.  It works well for the tying and fishes very well. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

Just out of curiousity,  what is the original recipe for the pt nymph, This sinks well if pitched or plunked, and is suitable for the "Leisenring Lift" or (British) "induced take." — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

        also very symbiotic with the "crest of the blue ridge toss and hope", and the "great smoky mountain short line sneak".         a. wayne harrison

Response:

Just out of curiousity,  what is the original recipe for the pt nymph, utilizing only fine copper wire and pt?  I would be interested in your : England’s Frank Sawyer spotted this approx. 1950 when developing the : pheasant tail nymph (using copper wire in place of thread.)  He and Oliver : Kite therefore sought to develop a special casting style, so the PT would : break through the surface and sink to the feeding trout’s level with minimum : delay.  They called this "pitching" rather than casting.

PT specifications are governed by: — fast sink rate (from surface to feeding fish’s depth), — silhouette of a generic (Baetis?) mayfly type, — correct size, commonly #14 or smaller. Materials are simply pheasant tail fibres and fine copper wire (such as electric motor windings).  Tips of 2 or 3 fibres, secured by copper, make a tail;  same fibres, wound around by same copper, make a body; and (if you have any fibre left) are rewound from head back towards middle to make a fatter thorax.  This sinks well if pitched or plunked, and is suitable for the "Leisenring Lift" or (British) "induced take." — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Just out of curiousity,  what is the original recipe for the pt nymph, utilizing only fine copper wire and pt?  I would be interested in your version. gp  Donald Phillipson

: Last weekend, I was fishing a beadhead nymph with just the leader out, : dabbing the fly to a fish along the bank.  The surface tension would : actually support that nymph if I put it down gently. I thought that was : pretty amazing. :   : England’s Frank Sawyer spotted this approx. 1950 when developing the : pheasant tail nymph (using copper wire in place of thread.)  He and Oliver : Kite therefore sought to develop a special casting style, so the PT would : break through the surface and sink to the feeding trout’s level with minimum : delay.  They called this "pitching" rather than casting. : — : |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | : |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         | — gp

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just out of curiousity,  what is the original recipe for the pt nymph, This sinks well if pitched or plunked, and is suitable for the "Leisenring Lift" or (British) "induced take." — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |         also very symbiotic with the "crest of the blue ridge toss and hope", and the "great smoky mountain short line sneak".

Or the good old Cascade "chuck and duck"! Burton

Response:

Last weekend, I was fishing a beadhead nymph with just the leader out,

dabbing the fly to a fish along the bank.  The surface tension would actually support that nymph if I put it down gently. I thought that was pretty amazing. England’s Frank Sawyer spotted this approx. 1950 when developing the pheasant tail nymph (using copper wire in place of thread.)  He and Oliver Kite therefore sought to develop a special casting style, so the PT would break through the surface and sink to the feeding trout’s level with minimum delay.  They called this "pitching" rather than casting. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The argument has been over the specific gravity of floatant compared to water.  Such an argument is specious.  There was one post that mentioned keeping flies dry.  That is getting closer to the mark. You can "float" needles or even razor blades on water.  The key is that there is a surface tension in the surface of water that acts like a rubber sheet.  The proviso is that the object you are "floating" does not get wet.  If it does, the surface film is broken, and no longer acts like a sheet. The purpose of the floatant is to keep hackle from getting wet.  The natural oil in feathers and help keep them dry.  False casting helps too. Floatants are oily substances that cling to the fly and repel water. Thus, the floatant prevents breaking of the surface film. Most of the materials forming dry flies have spikes and barbules that give lots of surface for their weight.  They push dimples into the surface layer.  In turn the tension in this layer pushes back and supports the fly.  Try floating a fly in soapy water.  In fact, one of the fun things to do is to squirt some sinking solution into water where water striders are trying to make a living.  Most of them seem to make it to rocks where the climb out in a bedraggled state.  The soap or detergent causes flies to be wetted in spite of their oils. If you want to "float" a needle or razor blade, put the object on a piece of ordinary paper.  Carefully lower the paper onto the surface of water so that the paper floats with the object upon it.  Sooner or later, the paper will soak up water and sink, leaving behind the object supported by surface tension. William Buchman

Last weekend, I was fishing a beadhead nymph with just the leader out, dabbing the fly to a fish along the bank.  The surface tension would actually support that nymph if I put it down gently. I thought that was pretty amazing. By the way, I owe you an apology for my response to your post earlier this summer about the energy  stored in a bent fly rod not contributing much to a cast.  I really believed that a significant portion of the energy involved in propelling the fly line would be temporarily stored in the rod. After a summer of testing and observation, though, I will admit that I was wrong.  Probably less than 10% of the useful energy in a cast is transferred to the line from the potential of the bent rod. Andy Lamborne

Response:

<snip : layer.  In turn the tension in this layer pushes back and supports the : fly.  Try floating a fly in soapy water.  In fact, one of the fun things : to do is to squirt some sinking solution into water where water striders : are trying to make a living.  Most of them seem to make it to rocks where : the climb out in a bedraggled state.  The soap or detergent causes flies : to be wetted in spite of their oils. <snip

Sinking water striders with soap for fun ?   Enjoy your next life as a water strider, pal. TimW

Response:

<snip : layer.  In turn the tension in this layer pushes back and supports the : fly.  Try floating a fly in soapy water.  In fact, one of the fun things : to do is to squirt some sinking solution into water where water striders : are trying to make a living.  Most of them seem to make it to rocks where : the climb out in a bedraggled state.  The soap or detergent causes flies : to be wetted in spite of their oils. <snip : : William Buchman Do you suppose that this would work on canoes, jet skiis, and jet-proped john boats?  George could be my hero! Bob

Response:

The argument has been over the specific gravity of floatant compared to water.  Such an argument is specious.  There was one post that mentioned keeping flies dry.  That is getting closer to the mark. You can "float" needles or even razor blades on water.  The key is that there is a surface tension in the surface of water that acts like a rubber sheet.  The proviso is that the object you are "floating" does not get wet.  If it does, the surface film is broken, and no longer acts like a sheet. The purpose of the floatant is to keep hackle from getting wet.  The natural oil in feathers and help keep them dry.  False casting helps too. Floatants are oily substances that cling to the fly and repel water. Thus, the floatant prevents breaking of the surface film. Most of the materials forming dry flies have spikes and barbules that give lots of surface for their weight.  They push dimples into the surface layer.  In turn the tension in this layer pushes back and supports the fly.  Try floating a fly in soapy water.  In fact, one of the fun things to do is to squirt some sinking solution into water where water striders are trying to make a living.  Most of them seem to make it to rocks where the climb out in a bedraggled state.  The soap or detergent causes flies to be wetted in spite of their oils. If you want to "float" a needle or razor blade, put the object on a piece of ordinary paper.  Carefully lower the paper onto the surface of water so that the paper floats with the object upon it.  Sooner or later, the paper will soak up water and sink, leaving behind the object supported by surface tension. William Buchman

Response:

Question:

I’m heading for Bridgeport Monday. My first visit to the area last year wasn’t very productive due to incredible runoff (and a snowstorm). I would appreciate any advice on how the fishing is and what spots are producing. I’m kinda partial to stillwater FFing in my Poke Boat. TIA   —       There’s a fine line between fishing and standing       on the shore looking like an idiot.                                    Steven  Wright

Response:

: I’m heading for Bridgeport Monday. My first visit to the area last year : wasn’t very productive due to incredible runoff (and a snowstorm). : I would appreciate any advice on how the fishing is and what spots are : producing. I’m kinda partial to stillwater FFing in my Poke Boat. : TIA   : — :                                                                 :       There’s a fine line between fishing and standing :       on the shore looking like an idiot. :                                    Steven  Wright try www.flyfishing-online.com for the latest reports on the eastern sierra’s. sounds like it is major runoff time up there. jlc

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : I’m heading for Bridgeport Monday. My first visit to the area last year : wasn’t very productive due to incredible runoff (and a snowstorm). : I would appreciate any advice on how the fishing is and what spots are : producing. I’m kinda partial to stillwater FFing in my Poke Boat. : TIA : — : :       There’s a fine line between fishing and standing :       on the shore looking like an idiot. :                                    Steven  Wright try www.flyfishing-online.com for the latest reports on the eastern sierra’s. sounds like it is major runoff time up there. jlcJust returned from Bridgeport Sunday. Was there for a week and

fishing is very slow. Too much water and a full moon. Try the Resevoir for bid fish. Talk to Rick at Ken’s Sporting Goods.

Response: