Question:

 I’ll let you turn on the furnace, Peter. Dave

Damn right ’cause I’m not letting you cuddle up to me.   I would very much like to do the Kennebec, the more I hear about it, the more intrigued I am.  Sounds like you had a wonderful time. BTW, I’ve run into John Valk twice since the float trip and he keeps saying nice things about you.  You made an impression.  :) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Peter writes: BTW, I’ve run into John Valk twice since the float trip and he keeps saying nice things about you.  You made an impression.  :)

He loves me because I can cast over my left shoulder in the rear and the front of the boat, thereby avoiding his ears.  d;o) Can’t wait for May……  I think I will stay with my 8 weight and buy a new Lamson large arbor.  From him, of course. And, you will love the Kennebec.  It is meant for streamer fishing. Dave

Response:

That fish wasn’t nothin but icing on the cake of a fine trip…… john

Response:

<snipped good TR This morning I opted not to fish because it was cold.

I had the same problem this morning. I woke up early to go and decided my bed was *really* nice and warm. Damn this New England/Winter thing! — TL, Tim

Response:

This morning I opted not to fish because it was cold. I had the same problem this morning. I woke up early to go and decided my bed was *really* nice and warm. Damn this New England/Winter thing! — TL, Tim

Wuss.  Went ‘fishing for science’ today on a little gem of an urban pond (in Dave LaCourse’s old neighborhood).  We were helping a water quality monitoring program by harvesting some fish for analysis (the fish are being FedExed to UMaine for heavy metal and PCB testing).  I caught a lot of bluegills on slowly retrieved Zug Bugs and picked up two really nice chain pickerel (over 16" apiece, fat and feisty) and a couple of ‘keeper’ sized bass on unweighted wooly buggers on my 4 wt.  Jim picked up several calicos (black crappie) on a trolled damsel nymph.  It was really nice once the sun came out.

Response:

Great report Dave where on the Kennebec do you go what town that is. They had a TU program a few months ago on the Kennebec River they were catch browns and bows.                    Handyman Mike           Standing in a river waving a stick

Response:

This morning I opted not to fish because it was cold. I had the same problem this morning. I woke up early to go and decided my bed was *really* nice and warm. Damn this New England/Winter thing! — TL, Tim Wuss.

Yeah, I know. I did finally get out at around 10:00 when it warmed up a bit. Caught a *big* brown with two extra flies and some tippet attached. Hopefully, he’s swimming more comfortably now. My hands got very cold once I started fishing. Are there any special or modified gloves you folk would recommend? — TL, Tim

Response:

Jo and I arrived at The East Outlet, Kennebec River, about 2:30 on Friday afternoon.  It was  a beautiful late fall day, with promises of colder temperatures.

    ahh, louie my friend, pretty work.  what a life! yfitons wayno

Response:

Jo and I arrived at The East Outlet, Kennebec River, about 2:30 on Friday afternoon.  It was  a beautiful late fall day, with promises of colder temperatures.   I parked the rv within yards of the river, leveled it, and while Jo unpacked and made camp, I went fishing.   I fished the nice run at the old put-in spot ("stairs"), and fished up-stream for about an hour.  With two hits, two fish on, and none landed, but my hands freezing, I called it quits and returned to the warmth of the rv.  The river was running at 1700 cfs, just a little more than I like it, but the water was cold and the salmon had come up-river from Indian Pond.   After a dinner of grilled hamburgers and home-made baked beans (lots of brown sugar, maple syrup, and a little onion), we settled in and watched a movie. The wind had come up and the falling leaves on the roof made for a wonderful feeling.  We were warm, well fed, entertained, and the sounds of the river and wind added to the ambiance.  We could have used the furnace all night.  We should have used the furnace all night.  Instead, Jo cracked one of the bedroom windows about a half inch, and we settled in for sleep without heat.   Well, it was a two dog night and we only had one, Henry.  Jo got up about midnight and added a down comforter to our 3 blanket pile.  That’s when Henry joined us and promptly settled in under the comforter.  The wind got stronger and the rain started about 1 a.m., beating a cacophony of rhythm on the flat roof.  It was great sleeping. When I awoke, the rain had ended and it was cold.  After a hot breakfast I headed down-stream to my favorite run.   I tied on one of Bruiser’s little nymphs (size 22), and on the second cast I was into a fairly nice salmon.  After a short battle, he broke off.  It would be awhile before I had on another fish.  These flies that Bruiser tied have been very successful on Maine’s rivers.  At first I found it remarkable that such large fish could be brought to hand with such small hooks.   I doubt my parents tied/fished anything smaller than a size 16 back in the forties/fifties.  They would be surprised and happy to seem me catch such beautiful fish on such itty-bitty flies. After lunch and a nap I set up my Sage 6 weight to lob some streamers, and returned to the same run.  It was raining and cold, but I was snuggled under several layers of fleece and a good raincoat.  I had several hits, but no hook-ups.  (Peter:  I was using a variation of the fly I used on the Saugeen.)  When I noticed that I was the only one on the stream, no drift boats, and it was *very* cold and did I mention *snowing*, I headed back to the rv.  I love to fish, but there are limits.  It took a long time to thaw out my hands.  I wish they made a fishing glove that would keep your hands/fingers warm and still allow the dexterity needed to tie knots and control your line.  I use fingerless fleece gloves, and while they do give some protection from the cold even when wet, the tips of my old fingers just can not handle the exposure. I slept very well that night.  The snow turned back to hard rain, and lulled me to sleep.  This morning I opted not to fish because it was cold.  Earlier I said it would be awhile before I had on another fish

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Terry, I would have to disagree with you that an "Average" flyfisherman/woman couldn’t benefit with a cane rod. I have taken beginning fly fishers and taught them how to cast on my 5 wt. G-Loomis and after an hour of fishing had them cast my 4 wt. bamboo (made by Peter McVey of Corbit Lake, BC). In almost all cases the new caster was able to cast easier and could find the "Sweet Spot" where the rod will almost cast by itself (Something I have never felt in any of the graphite rods I have cast).  Will these people purchase a bamboo rod later in their fishing lives? I don’t know. I do know that my wife will probably end up with one sooner or later (Of course she ends up using mine all the time anyway!). Don’t get me wrong, I love my 7′ 3wt Lamiglass graphite II rod. I also love my RPLXi 9′ 8wt Sage and my G-Loomis Premiere 9′ 5wt rods. But none of them have that "Sweet Spot" that just puts the line out there with so little effort and such precision as bamboo does. Until you have felt that you will continue to use these wonderfully overpriced graphite rods. Gary Johnson For the average angler I would have to say that Sage is more or less right. Most of your average flyfisherman are not particularly good casters and a cane rod would be wasted on them. Fly presentation and cosmetics are what makes cane fun. Cane cannot compete with composites for pure performance for the I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

_____  Well said Gary. — George G. Bastard Bamboo Fly Rods http://www.gink.com/ http://www.gink.com/chat

Response:

The no-questions-asked return policy *must* account for a good chunk of that.  And of course, advertising costs.  See www.dorber.com for their ideas on the matter (they will not accept a return if you abused the rod (car door), but will accept tradeins for prorated value (based on condition).  I believe Bruce H bought one of these rods. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sage is just an example. I don’t want to stir up an old discussion about price/quality comparisons (NO I DON’T!), but for me 490 USD is still a ridiculous price for a rod. YMMV, of course. Herman Especially for a mass produced rod. The high end graphite rod prices are way out of line for what you get. Willi

– Regards, Jeff Before you buy.

Response:

Most definately a learner will benefit from a slower action rod that they can ‘feel’ more easily, but there are more economical ways of achieving that than using bamboo, surely? steve

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Bamboo is an outdated, anchronistic material. If you like the look and feel, fine, but for pure performance it just doesn’t have it.

I absolutely agree. In fact, bamboo rods remind me of Apple notebooks. Underpowered but extremely cache. –Steve

Response:

Most definately a learner will benefit from a slower action rod that they can ‘feel’ more easily, but there are more economical ways of achieving that than using bamboo, surely?

There sure are. Find an old (like 15 years) Walton Powell graphite rod. Bamboo is an outdated, anchronistic material. If you like the look and feel, fine, but for pure performance it just doesn’t have it. Personally, I prefer faster rods for 90% of my fishing, even when I’m throwing weight. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Terry, I would have to disagree with you that an "Average" flyfisherman/woman couldn’t benefit with a cane rod. I have taken beginning fly fishers and taught them how to cast on my 5 wt. G-Loomis and after an hour of fishing had them cast my 4 wt. bamboo (made by Peter McVey of Corbit Lake, BC). In almost all cases the new caster was able to cast easier and could find the "Sweet Spot" where the rod will almost cast by itself (Something I have never felt in any of the graphite rods I have cast).  Will these people purchase a bamboo rod later in their fishing lives? I don’t know. I do know that my wife will probably end up with one sooner or later (Of course she ends up using mine all the time anyway!). Don’t get me wrong, I love my 7′ 3wt Lamiglass graphite II rod. I also love my RPLXi 9′ 8wt Sage and my G-Loomis Premiere 9′ 5wt rods. But none of them have that "Sweet Spot" that just puts the line out there with so little effort and such precision as bamboo does. Until you have felt that you will continue to use these wonderfully overpriced graphite rods. Gary Johnson

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For the average angler I would have to say that Sage is more or less right. Most of your average flyfisherman are not particularly good casters and a cane rod would be wasted on them. Fly presentation and cosmetics are what makes cane fun. Cane cannot compete with composites for pure performance for the I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

Response:

Sage is just an example. I don’t want to stir up an old discussion about price/quality comparisons (NO I DON’T!), but for me 490 USD is still a ridiculous price for a rod. YMMV, of course. Herman

Especially for a mass produced rod. The high end graphite rod prices are way out of line for what you get. Willi

Response:

I will be hitting the Grand again, but I also want to head off in search of some bass too.  I know a few small hidden places not far from where I used to live near Grand Valley.. might give those a shot. We really should see if we can find a day we are both available, soon!

fer sure.  In fact, Grand Valley is where my son and I will be exploring tomorrow. I’ll probably post the usual trip report. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I picked up a tube of your wax actually, a few weeks ago.  I like it, George.  My son, who is 12 years old, just got into fly tying in a HUGE way, and wants to trade me his little disk of wax for my Gehrke’s tube.  I can’t believe you have a 12 year old fan! <grin I read your stint with interest and I do have a few constructive comments to offer, but at this time I decline for the reason above. I’ll let you know when the links go back up..

Email me your son’s mailing address please, Ian. — Mr.Gink "the saga continues"   http://www.gink.com/

Response:

I watched the video. It was interesting to see the process of building a rod. I do think they are a bit disingenious slamming bamboo rods. Until this year I would have probably said, oh yeah, see what I mean about bamboo. I recently got an old shakespeare bamboo off ebay that astonished me by casting a good 70 feet of line in the backyard, missing a guide and all the others are rusty as hell (I just couldn’t resist casting it before rendering it down to re-wrap). My sage 5wt doesn’t perform that well for me, nor does the 7wt. Maybe I was meant to have a bamboo all along. I do agree that bamboo rods are about tradition, they are a thing of beauty, each has it’s own feel, speed and special grace that a production graphite rod, just doesn’t capture. But for the masses graphite is still a good buy. Flyfish

Response:

______  Well Ion, the name is Gehrke, please and I see you are aware of our art work but you fail to list us as a manufacturer of fine Bamboo Fly Rods? I read your stint with interest and I do have a few constructive comments to offer, but at this time I decline for the reason above.  

The link is there now, George.  If you have a better page to link to, please let me know.   Thanks.  Would love to see your comments, either here or at the message board on the site! Ian

Response:

For the average angler I would have to say that Sage is more or less right. Most of your average flyfisherman are not particularly good casters and a cane rod would be wasted on them. Fly presentation and cosmetics are what makes cane fun. Cane cannot compete with composites for pure performance for the   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

Response:

For the average angler Sage is waaay out of their league… pricewise. For the average angler a decent rod that just does what it’s supposed to do is more than enough. Ok, at least for me it is.. Herman For the average angler I would have to say that Sage is more or less right. Most of your average flyfisherman are not particularly good casters and a cane rod would be wasted on them. Fly presentation and cosmetics are what makes cane fun. Cane cannot compete with composites for pure performance for the

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

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For the average angler Sage is waaay out of their league… pricewise. …

For the average angler across the pond Sage is ridiculously expensive, but here in North America they’re right in line with the other high end rods. The John Norris of Penrith catalogue lists a Sage 690XP at 441 pounds sterling or about $660 US on a good day, the same rod sells here in the states for $490 US. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Sage is just an example. I don’t want to stir up an old discussion about price/quality comparisons (NO I DON’T!), but for me 490 USD is still a ridiculous price for a rod. YMMV, of course. Herman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For the average angler Sage is waaay out of their league… pricewise. … For the average angler across the pond Sage is ridiculously expensive, but here in North America they’re right in line with the other high end rods. The John Norris of Penrith catalogue lists a Sage 690XP at 441 pounds sterling or about $660 US on a good day, the same rod sells here in the states for $490 US. — Ken Fortenberry

– Cheers, Herman Herman Nijland Daytime webmaster Lifetime flyfisher

Response:

Terry,    I don’t understand why a cane rod is wasted on the "average fly fisherman" more than any other fine rod would be.  Today there are more expensive rods being "wasted" on mediocre casters because they have money and want the very best.  Expensive rods don’t make good casters, only practice can do that. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For the average angler I would have to say that Sage is more or less right. Most of your average flyfisherman are not particularly good casters and a cane rod would be wasted on them. Fly presentation and cosmetics are what makes cane fun. Cane cannot compete with composites for pure performance for the I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

Response:

I think that Sage is basically right, for pure performance in the hands of the average flyfisherman composites cannot be beat. Cane is about presentation and tradition and would be wasted on many of the foul mouthed cowboys on this list that flyfish because it is trendy Making cane rods affordable for all flyfishermen is a sterling idea but the thought of one particular guy (his reply to the not sorry posting) with an almost hand made cane rod  giving it some verbal because he cannot lay out the whole line is amusing. Terry     – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

Response:

______  Well Ion, the name is Gehrke, please and I see you are aware of our art work but you fail to list us as a manufacturer of fine Bamboo Fly Rods?

Well, hot spit!  I was sure I had Gehrke in my spell checker!! Sorry about the typo, Mr. G.  :) I have you listed at the bottom of the article in question, under ‘Related Links’.  I used to have you listed when you had all that information on the Bastard Rod Company, but then the links seemed to go dead and I couldn’t figure out where you put the pages.  Goes to show you about these rod makers and wax producers when they design their websites and re-design them..   I picked up a tube of your wax actually, a few weeks ago.  I like it, George.  My son, who is 12 years old, just got into fly tying in a HUGE way, and wants to trade me his little disk of wax for my Gehrke’s tube.  I can’t believe you have a 12 year old fan! <grin I read your stint with interest and I do have a few constructive comments to offer, but at this time I decline for the reason above.  

I’ll let you know when the links go back up..

Response:

Wondered where you ran off to.

Been using your mini browns and Larry Medina’s turkey tail nymphs on the Grand.  I should take my camera more often.  The problem is, I never catch anything when I have the camera worth photographing.  When I don’t have it, I have lots of tales to tell, but no evidence! I tried this video URL and the thing will download but not run.  First it had me download a MS viewer then RealPlayer beta 8 and the damn thing still just sits.  I’m running IE 5.5 with all mod cons and the Sage Video page is full of broken GIFs – great site – NOT!

Hm.  Not sure what to say to help you out on that. Anyway, I’ll read the article without the video and post my appropriately rude comments.

I will look forward to them   Have you been out much yourself on the Grand lately?  Or anyplace else for that matter?  I am on Vacation for 3 weeks, and thinking about some spots to take my sons fishing with me.  The eldest (12 year old) is right into flyfishing.. the other two are still a little more comfortable with worms and such right now.

Response:

Typical – after a couple of reboots and playing with the video settings, I finally have a working video. This was fascinating for me as though I’ve seen snippets of graphite rod making, I’ve never seen the whole enchilada. I can’t figure out why Gerry is going on about cane rods.  It’s not like they’re some major competion for him (or does the resurgence have him worried?)  Of course cane is heavier but some of the tapers being used now along with good lines, can produce amazing performance.   Ted Knott let me cast a brand new 9 wt. 3 pce. 8′ 6" cane he had designed. Though heavier, it had tremedous power and I’d have no qualms about spending a day on the water with it.   Gerry’s barking up the wrong tree. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Been using your mini browns and Larry Medina’s turkey tail nymphs on the Grand.  I should take my camera more often.  The problem is, I never catch anything when I have the camera worth photographing.  When I don’t have it, I have lots of tales to tell, but no evidence!

The Grand has been running off colour a lot of late – best conditions for the mini. – Always the way.  Leave the camera in the truck and Mr. Monster Brown obliges. Hm.  Not sure what to say to help you out on that. Anyway, I’ll read the article without the video and post my appropriately rude comments.

Got it working. I will look forward to them   Have you been out much yourself on the Grand lately?  Or anyplace else for that matter?  I am on Vacation for 3 weeks, and thinking about some spots to take my sons fishing with me.  The eldest (12 year old) is right into flyfishing.. the other two are still a little more comfortable with worms and such right now.

I’m starting a one week vacation right now but much of it will be taken up by my MA thesis.  Last week, we tried the Glen Morris area (look back a week for the Scott, Greg and Peter Show post) but nothing but tiddlers.  My son and his friend just got back from the Grand, Cedar Run – one brown for him and 5 for Adam.  Good luck with the kids, I’m just introducing my 21 year old daughter to the game.  She was a real hot angler before puberty (worms mostly) but you know what happens when they hit their teens – boys, clothes, music, makeup, etc. etc.  Bronte Creek in Lowville Park is a great place to take a budding fly fisher, – willing baby steelies and lots of easy water and plenty of room.  Duffins Creek at the east end is about the same.  Have fun and let me know if you can get out for a serious day on the Grand. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Good luck with the kids, I’m just introducing my 21 year old daughter to the game.  She was a real hot angler before puberty (worms mostly) but you know what happens when they hit their teens – boys, clothes, music, makeup, etc. etc.  Bronte Creek in Lowville Park is a great place to take a budding fly fisher, – willing baby steelies and lots of easy water and plenty of room.  Duffins Creek at the east end is about the same.  Have fun and let me know if you can get out for a serious day on the Grand.

21 is too young for me.  Now that my divorce is just about through, I have to keep my eyes out for a fly fishin’ woman, a little older though probably.  And, yes looks DO count! With respect to the Duffins, that is exactly where my eldest had his introduction to flyfishing, this spring!  It was awesome – he caught two little browns on his first day out with a fly!  I was really proud of him, especially after he said he didn’t care much for worm fishing anymore .  I wrote an article about that trip, if you’re interested. Alex was pretty impressed! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa052800a.htm We spent some time on Oshawa Creek first, just to let Alex get the hang of it.  Actually, I had him do a bit of casting before we even got down to the stream, but he picked it up really quick!  Kids are probably easier to teach in some ways than adults. I will be hitting the Grand again, but I also want to head off in search of some bass too.  I know a few small hidden places not far from where I used to live near Grand Valley.. might give those a shot. We really should see if we can find a day we are both available, soon! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

Wondered where you ran off to. I tried this video URL and the thing will download but not run.  First it had me download a MS viewer then RealPlayer beta 8 and the damn thing still just sits.  I’m running IE 5.5 with all mod cons and the Sage Video page is full of broken GIFs – great site – NOT! Anyway, I’ll read the article without the video and post my appropriately rude comments. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

______  Well Ion, the name is Gehrke, please and I see you are aware of our art work but you fail to list us as a manufacturer of fine Bamboo Fly Rods? I read your stint with interest and I do have a few constructive comments to offer, but at this time I decline for the reason above.   Take care friend, — Mr.Gink "the saga continues"   http://www.gink.com/

Response:

I have been away from ROFF for too long!  Things like work, kids, and the business kept getting in the way.  I have missed out on too much at ROFF though! For the cane rodbuilders in the group, thought you might be interested in an article I wrote about a recent Sage video.. take a look at the article and the video and let me know what you think! http://flyfishing.about.com/library/weekly/aa072000a.htm I would love to know Mr. Gherke’s comments too! Ian Scott http://flyfishing.about.com/

Response:

Question:

Those damn ducks! Yesterday around 6:00 p.m. I finally finished getting the boat ready for guests for the OpSail parade.  Hosed off the finger piers real nice, too. The local ducks must prefer a clean head because they jumped right up and christened my neatly-Flemished dockline.

   The damn crows "christened" Stinky’s new seat – which was inside the boat, with the top up. They either went inside the boat, let one go, and said "whew! something stinks in here!" and left, or did a Luke Skywalker dive-bomb and pull-up in the side window. Lloyd Sumpter "Stinky" Fibrecraft 14 — It’s better to be at the dock, wishing you were at sea, than at sea, wishing you were at the dock.

Response:

or you could just feed ‘em Alka-Seltzer…..   In our years of boating we’ve tried fake owls and snakes, wind socks and conical piling tops but there seems to be no permanent solution to these gulls who leave huge droppings on our clean and polished decks. Then they fly by overhead laughing at us!  There is no solution to the problem but now there is revenge.  A colleague has developed a shareware PC game called "Gullblaster".  It features rendered seashore scenes and sounds and a sky littered with the enemy seagulls.  Now you can blast them out of the sky without legal implications.   There is also a screen saver called "Picture Saver" available on Steve’s web site.  It is a "slide show" viewer that allows you to display your favorite seashore scenes or boating and fishing pictures that are saved on your PC as graphic images.  Check it out at:   Freeware and shareware screen savers, games, and utilities   If you have problems with this as a link, just paste this site into your viewer’s location window – http://webshed.webjump.com/   —   Regards,   John G.   —   NJ Coastal and ICW – Somers Point / Ocean City

Response:

In our years of boating we’ve tried fake owls and snakes, wind socks and conical piling tops but there seems to be no permanent solution to these gulls who leave huge droppings on our clean and polished decks. Then they fly by overhead laughing at us!  There is no solution to the problem but now there is revenge.  A colleague has developed a shareware PC game called "Gullblaster".  It features rendered seashore scenes and sounds and a sky littered with the enemy seagulls.  Now you can blast them out of the sky without legal implications. There is also a screen saver called "Picture Saver" available on Steve’s web site.  It is a "slide show" viewer that allows you to display your favorite seashore scenes or boating and fishing pictures that are saved on your PC as graphic images.  Check it out at: Freeware and shareware screen savers, games, and utilities If you have problems with this as a link, just paste this site into your viewer’s location window – http://webshed.webjump.com/ — Regards, John G. — NJ Coastal and ICW – Somers Point / Ocean City

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You know they taste like chicken!!

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Those damn ducks! Yesterday around 6:00 p.m. I finally finished getting the boat ready for guests for the OpSail parade.  Hosed off the finger piers real nice, too. The local ducks must prefer a clean head because they jumped right up and christened my neatly-Flemished dockline.

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Question:

Another Lousy Day in Paradise might be a good read for him.  Another other ideas brewing out there?

Since you live where you do, may I suggest that you bring him a couple of books by Tom McGuane. I think he is a local suthor for you. One of my favorites is Outside Chance, but I understand he has a new one out that is just as good if not better. Big Dale  

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Warren, Nice story, you can learn a lot from the old timers. One of the best friends I have in my chapter of TU is 84 years old. He drives 30 miles to meetings & has lots of history to share. He builds beautiful hand made nets for our banquet that helps us make some money for our conservation projects. He came to last fall’s fishing outing & I took him under my wing. We couldn’t get to the best spots because he needs a double knee replacement but we managed to find a spot were he slid down on his butt. On the way up I took his equiptment & then helped pull him up the bank. We didn’t catch any fish but had a great time anyway. Joan Stoliar one of the owners of the  company Folstaf wading staff is involved with Project Access which builds handicapped fishing access in the Catskills. One day every spring she enlists the aid of some TU chapters & a couple of other fishing clubs to help rebuild the ramps (they sometimes get washed out during the winter). We also plant willows to help shade some of the banks. Check this site for forther info: http://www.projectaccess.com/ We are all going to need help getting down to the river when we get older (not too far down the road for me) & I hope there will be some other fisherman willing to help maintain access. Sol

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<snipped Big Dale’s recommendation Thanks for the info.  I will look into getting a copy and reading it first to see if he will enjoy it Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

Sol, You gave me an idea.  Perhaps I can buy him a year membership in FFF here in Livingston.  I have been meaning to join myself.  It would give him something to do if he isn't already a member.  I think I might offer to take him out fishing too.  We probably won't catch many fish, but I am sure that the trip will be fun anyways.  Thanks for the link, I will check it out this weekend when I have more time. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

<snip I'm still trying to sort some things out in my head.  I don't know why this struck me as hard as it did, but I think I am going to make this a little routine.  Hopefully I will be able to give this guy something to look forward to and someone to talk to every now and then.  If that is all I can do, then I will do what I can.  Who knows, maybe it will be just the thing to keep this old guy going for a little longer or at least bring a little happiness to his life.  I only wish I could find another outlet like roff for him to participate in to help fill the vast void.

Warren, Nice gesture. I hope when your angling days are done you will find someone as thoughtful to help you through that final phase of your fishing life. Perhaps he may best be able to continue his fishing through you. What better gift could you possibly give him than the friendship of a fellow angler? Kiyu

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Listen to his stories.  Type them up.  Print 'em out.  Take some pictures of his favorite spots.  Ask to borrow some of his old photos and scan them.  Put together a little booklet of his stories along with scanned photos and have a print shop bind it up.  That'd make a nice gift. Mu

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- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text - Warren Great post. Don't feel too sorry for the guy; just be aware that it comes to us all, if we are lucky. And for sure he is getting out there and enjoying the water and the sport in the only way still available to him. Buy the stuff if its a good deal and you can use it. Thats a way to show respect. The worst approach is to ignore him. Enuf seriousness. An alternative approach on handling this scenario it is to first scout out the situation. Then when he is crossing a field or some other exposed place, quarter in from behind. Drive your teeth into his Achilles tendon, throwing your weight to the right in a rolling motion. As he comes down, release your bight and spin out of the way, taking care to avoid his flailing kicks. Now back off and assess the situation to make sure he actually did fall to the right, in which case no repositioning is necessary ; quarter quickly in from infront and behind to the neck. Definitely reposition if he has fallen to the left. Take the best booty for yourself, its your right, but be sure to share with the rest of the group in order of their help on other hunts. Dave

Warren, Make a print out of David Snedeker's post (above) and show it to the old chap. If He has any SOH, he will probably pee his pants. It might be the best laugh he's had in ages! Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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Warren, A few options come to mind. You could take him lake fishing; no steep banks or currents to contend with, and if you're in the right place at the right time, the fishing can be spectacular. If he's not interested in stillwaters, and you can afford the rod fees, take him to Armstrongs, or somewhere similar. Again, great fishing and much easier to navigate than the Yellowstone river. (BTW, I don't think TBone would be bugged a bit by your idea of bringing your friend a fresh-caught fish or two. In a similar situation, he'd probably do the same thing. It's a tradition as old as fishing itself.) -- Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyo Before you buy.

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<snip After three days of reading the replys, the original message finally shows up on my server.  Nice story Warren. -- Levi Trample the weak Hurdle the dead

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BTW, I don't think TBone would be bugged a bit by your idea of bringing your friend a fresh-caught fish or two.

I know.  I bet he will actually get a kick out of *me* keeping fish. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

Today I was fishing some of the channels of the Yellowstone that I frequent.  I started fishing around 3 and stopped around 7.  When I got back to the truck and was taking off my waders an old timer pulled up and started to ask me how the fishing was.  We ended up talking for close to an hour. Seems this gentleman had fished these channels long before I was even born.  We both shared a love for these channels and think of them as favorite stretches. Needless to say,  we had a common bond despite the vast difference in years so a conversation was not difficult to keep going.   After talking to the guy for about 30 minutes I started to get kind of sad. Joe said (his name was Joe) that he had stopped fishing in the last couple of years because he was too old and couldn't get around good enough anymore.   He had to give up fly tying as well because he can't sit for long periods of time.  He still drives along the river and checks up on his favorite spots I guess just for something to do.   Or maybe it is just his way of still having some kind of contact with fly fishing.  Either way it was sad to see. It really got me to thinking  about what happens when one becomes too old to fish.  I am guessing that he is all alone because he said that he gave some of his rods to his nephews who don't fish so the rods are just sitting in a basement.  Gave me the impression that his wife and kids are deceased if he ever was even married and had kids.  This man was telling me stories about fishing this area back in the 50's and 60's and so it was quite interesting aside from the pitty factor I was feeling. We began talking about the cost of equipment and materials and how expensive things were now compared to before the increase in popularity of fly fishing. He said that he used to by custom made bamboo rods for $60 with $10 extra for modifications to the specs, ect.  Anyways, since he isn't tying anymore he said he would give me a bunch of his tying hooks and would part with some of his gear and tying materials for pretty cheap.  It wasn't that he was trying to sucker me into buying all of his stuff so he could have some pocket money, I think he just wanted to see it go to a nice home. He told me where to find him so next Friday I think I am going to pay him a visit after I get done fishing in the morning.  It was kind of funny, he said to just go to the apartment complex that he lives in and ask for "Joe the fisherman on the 3rd floor."   Since he has to buy his fish from the store now, I think I will take him a couple of fresh caught trout as a gift. I feel obliged to go and visit him, not so much to buy anything he has, but just so he can keep up on what things are like out on his old haunt.  He was really interested in what the channels are like now.  He can't go and see for himself  so he was asking me all kinds of questions.  I could tell that he loved fishing very much and loved this area just as much if not more.  At one point during the conversation I could swear that he started to get a tear in his eye. When I got home the whole event really started to sink in.  I started to think about what I am going to do when I reach the age that I can no longer participate in this "hobby" that we all love so much.  It really has me wondering what happens when you devote so much of your life to something and then get to a point that you are unable to do what you love to do  anymore.  I can only hope that I never have to face this dilema.  But if I do, I hope to that I will have someone to talk to and maybe bring me a fish once in awhile. I just wish there was something I could do like take him fishing even just once more. Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

Today I was fishing some of the channels of the Yellowstone that I frequent.  I started fishing around 3 and stopped around 7.  When I got back to the truck and was taking off my waders an old timer pulled up and started to ask me how the fishing was.  We ended up talking for close to an hour.

        (snip)         nice sentiments, warren.         the answer to the question is photography. wayno

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Warren.. Thanks for that moving story you shared.  My father, who taught me to flyfish, is now paralyzed from the waist down.  He waits for me to report on the last trip, what flies I have last tied, and what the streams were like. The streams are firmly fixed in his mind.  He knows every spot of which I speak.  My mother also reports that when he sleeps she often sees his casting arm going back and forth, and sometimes his hand making the familiar circular motion of an experienced fly tier. I like to think he is on his favorite steam or at his bench.  I suspect he is. Maybe these are things we ought to remember when we are tempted to take verbal shots at each other.  It puts it all in perspective.  It matters not what rod or reel we use, or the degree of our skill.  Let us enjoy each other and the sport we love even though every last one of us is at times a bit odd.  Let us also hope that when each of us age, which God willing we will, and then our time to depart comes, that this God in his grace provides a place to toss a fly and fish our favorite haunt.

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[snip] When I got home the whole event really started to sink in.  I started to think about what I am going to do when I reach the age that I can no longer participate in this "hobby" that we all love so much.

[snip] You’ll do what this gentleman did. You’ll find a good home for it. Paul

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Hmm….not exactly the sort of post I look for in the morning with my coffee. I mean the comics are what I read first in the newspaper, ya know? But it is the sort of thing, that to be a part of, creates a memory….john

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Today I was fishing some of the channels of the Yellowstone that I frequent.  I started fishing around 3 and stopped around 7.  When I got back to the truck and was taking off my waders an old timer pulled up and started to ask me how the fishing was.  We ended up talking for close to an hour. Seems this gentleman had fished these channels long before I was even born. We both shared a love for these channels and think of them as favorite stretches. Needless to say,  we had a common bond despite the vast difference in years so a conversation was not difficult to keep going. After talking to the guy for about 30 minutes I started to get kind of sad. Joe said (his name was Joe) that he had stopped fishing in the last couple of years because he was too old and couldn’t get around good enough anymore. He had to give up fly tying as well because he can’t sit for long periods of time. He still drives along the river and checks up on his favorite spots I guess just for something to do.   Or maybe it is just his way of still having some kind of contact with fly fishing.  Either way it was sad to see. It really got me to thinking  about what happens when one becomes too old to fish.  I am guessing that he is all alone because he said that he gave some of his rods to his nephews who don’t fish so the rods are just sitting in a basement.  Gave me the impression that his wife and kids are deceased if he ever was even married and had kids.  This man was telling me stories about fishing this area back in the 50’s and 60’s and so it was quite interesting aside from the pitty factor I was feeling. We began talking about the cost of equipment and materials and how expensive things were now compared to before the increase in popularity of fly fishing. He said that he used to by custom made bamboo rods for $60 with $10 extra for modifications to the specs, ect.  Anyways, since he isn’t tying anymore he said he would give me a bunch of his tying hooks and would part with some of his gear and tying materials for pretty cheap.  It wasn’t that he was trying to sucker me into buying all of his stuff so he could have some pocket money, I think he just wanted to see it go to a nice home. He told me where to find him so next Friday I think I am going to pay him a visit after I get done fishing in the morning.  It was kind of funny, he said to just go to the apartment complex that he lives in and ask for "Joe the fisherman on the 3rd floor."   Since he has to buy his fish from the store now, I think I will take him a couple of fresh caught trout as a gift. I feel obliged to go and visit him, not so much to buy anything he has, but just so he can keep up on what things are like out on his old haunt.  He was really interested in what the channels are like now.  He can’t go and see for himself  so he was asking me all kinds of questions.  I could tell that he loved fishing very much and loved this area just as much if not more.  At one point during the conversation I could swear that he started to get a tear in his eye. When I got home the whole event really started to sink in.  I started to think about what I am going to do when I reach the age that I can no longer participate in this "hobby" that we all love so much.  It really has me wondering what happens when you devote so much of your life to something and then get to a point that you are unable to do what you love to do  anymore. I can only hope that I never have to face this dilema.  But if I do, I hope to that I will have someone to talk to and maybe bring me a fish once in awhile. I just wish there was something I could do like take him fishing even just once more. Warren X#-[ Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

Why not spend time brinigng him along on trips while introducing some new people to th s port.

I was thinking of that and the float idea as MC suggested, but there are two problems.  The first is that he said he can’t even walk down a bank because he can’t get back up since his legs are so weak now.  Second, he can’t sit for long periods of time.  I suggested that he try some bait fishing, but I think he almost took it as an insult, although he was kind and pretended he didn’t hear.  He is pretty old and I doubt he can wade anymore even with help and the area is very rocky and slippery.  I don’t think I would like to take on the liability of taking him out like that. I guess the best I can do for now is bring him a fish every now and then (Oh god, wait until TBone hears this :-}), buy some of his gear, and tell him what things were like.  In the future, maybe a float trip when I get a boat built. Something short with lots of stops would probably be ok. I’m still trying to sort some things out in my head.  I don’t know why this struck me as hard as it did, but I think I am going to make this a little routine.  Hopefully I will be able to give this guy something to look forward to and someone to talk to every now and then.  If that is all I can do, then I will do what I can.  Who knows, maybe it will be just the thing to keep this old guy going for a little longer or at least bring a little happiness to his life.  I only wish I could find another outlet like roff for him to participate in to help fill the vast void. Maybe I can take him some books to read.  Trout Bum and Another Lousy Day in Paradise might be a good read for him.  Another other ideas brewing out there? Other than quartering him and taking all the loot that is (Thanks Dave S, I’ll let you know how it goes). Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

Buy his gear if you like it and can afford it, and take him fishing if you can.  The best bet is a boat trip. He will probably be pleased to see his gear go to somebody who will use and look after it. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Why not spend time brinigng him along on trips while introducing some new people to th s port. You will accomplish 3 things, make the gentleman happy, propogate the love of the sport in others, and really get some pleasure for yourself by doing it. Regards from Montreal John Brkich

Response:

Warren Great post. Don’t feel too sorry for the guy; just be aware that it comes to us all, if we are lucky. And for sure he is getting out there and enjoying the water and the sport in the only way still available to him. Buy the stuff if its a good deal and you can use it. Thats a way to show respect. The worst approach is to ignore him. Enuf seriousness. An alternative approach on handling this scenario it is to first scout out the situation. Then when he is crossing a field or some other exposed place, quarter in from behind. Drive your teeth into his Achilles tendon, throwing your weight to the right in a rolling motion. As he comes down, release your bight and spin out of the way, taking care to avoid his flailing kicks. Now back off and assess the situation to make sure he actually did fall to the right, in which case no repositioning is necessary ; quarter quickly in from infront and behind to the neck. Definitely reposition if he has fallen to the left. Take the best booty for yourself, its your right, but be sure to share with the rest of the group in order of their help on other hunts. Dave

Response:

Question:

Oh, use them, most likely, or as he did, let friends use them when they visit. Sorry, but they aren’t for sale right now, and a dealer that has been helping sort through all this has "dibs" on anything we do sell.  He has suggested that the collection would make the basis of a book, and until we get all this sorted out, we are keeping it all together (well, at least not selling anything). R

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How come you have some in the packaging?   . . .john My Grandfather kept them around for others to use, gifts, etc.  I don’t know how many total, as I’m still gathering, but I’ve got a half-dozen here.  There were a few "used" that I’ve played with, and they actually seem to be decent rods.  A pretty well-known dealer said he, and some of his customers, think so as well, if that means anything. TC, R They don’t have weights (at least marked on rod, packing, label, anywhere), just lengths, but they are "Professional" "Kwik Taper" if that tells you anything. TC, R

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They don’t have weights (at least marked on rod, packing, label, anywhere), just lengths, but they are "Professional" "Kwik Taper" if that tells you anything. TC, R

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How come you have some in the packaging?   . . .john

My Grandfather kept them around for others to use, gifts, etc.  I don’t know how many total, as I’m still gathering, but I’ve got a half-dozen here.  There were a few "used" that I’ve played with, and they actually seem to be decent rods.  A pretty well-known dealer said he, and some of his customers, think so as well, if that means anything. TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They don’t have weights (at least marked on rod, packing, label, anywhere), just lengths, but they are "Professional" "Kwik Taper" if that tells you anything. TC, R

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How come you have some in the packaging?   . . .john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They don’t have weights (at least marked on rod, packing, label, anywhere), just lengths, but they are "Professional" "Kwik Taper" if that tells you anything. TC, R

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Amen. Paul from Peterborough, NH – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The idea is to figure out where Mr. Fish is hiding and what he wants to eat, not to look better than the other guy on the stream. (And if you still want to raise high the Orvis flag, well, you’re probably old enough to decide these things for yourself.) Absolutely true!  I own rods ranging from a $40.00 Cortland I keep in my car all the time, to an Orvis Battenkill cane rod. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that, as far as catching fish is concerned, next to the reel, the rod is the least important item I carry. True, a rod that suits your casting style is a lot more pleasant to use, but such a rod need not be prohibitively expensive. My $40.00 Cortland 8′ /5wt will do 90% of what my similar Sage will do at 1/10 the price, and because it is with me all the time, It probably outfishes the Sage aver the course of the season. The most important thing a fly fisherman takes to the stream with him is the stuff that resides between his ears. Common sense, knowledge of the quarry, and proper presentation are the things that catch fish. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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It’s the rod that works well for whatever you happen to be trying to do that afternoon.

It’s my 9′ 5wt sage RP…..love at first cast Flyfish

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The idea is to figure out where Mr. Fish is hiding and what he wants to eat, not to look better than the other guy on the stream. (And if you still want to raise high the Orvis flag, well, you’re probably old enough to decide these things for yourself.) Absolutely true!  I own rods ranging from a $40.00 Cortland I keep in my car all the time, to an Orvis Battenkill cane rod. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that, as far as catching fish is concerned, next to the reel, the rod is the least important item I carry. True, a rod that suits your casting style is a lot more pleasant to use, but such a rod need not be prohibitively expensive. My $40.00 Cortland 8′ /5wt will do 90% of what my similar Sage will do at 1/10 the price, and because it is with me all the time, It probably outfishes the Sage aver the course of the season. The most important thing a fly fisherman takes to the stream with him is the stuff that resides between his ears. Common sense, knowledge of the quarry, and proper presentation are the things that catch fish. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33" I agree, I have an old shakespeare wonderrod that I like to fish with the best. I guess it’s just what I am comfortable with is all. -Dave Funny, that is the very same brand and model my Grandfather carried on "non-fishing" trips where damage was possible, recommended to those getting started fly-fishing (as opposed to new Tournament casters)and gave out to rodless visiting fishermen.  I still have a few new in the packaging he never gave out.  I have used a couple of those in the racks, and you’re right, they’re actually pretty decent rods. TC, R

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The idea is to figure out where Mr. Fish is hiding and what he wants to eat, not to look better than the other guy on the stream. (And if you still want to raise high the Orvis flag, well, you’re probably old enough to decide these things for yourself.) Absolutely true!  I own rods ranging from a $40.00 Cortland I keep in my car all the time, to an Orvis Battenkill cane rod. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that, as far as catching fish is concerned, next to the reel, the rod is the least important item I carry. True, a rod that suits your casting style is a lot more pleasant to use, but such a rod need not be prohibitively expensive. My $40.00 Cortland 8′ /5wt will do 90% of what my similar Sage will do at 1/10 the price, and because it is with me all the time, It probably outfishes the Sage aver the course of the season. The most important thing a fly fisherman takes to the stream with him is the stuff that resides between his ears. Common sense, knowledge of the quarry, and proper presentation are the things that catch fish. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33" I agree, I have an old shakespeare wonderrod that I like to fish with the best. I guess it’s just what I am comfortable with is all. -Dave

Funny, that is the very same brand and model my Grandfather carried on "non-fishing" trips where damage was possible, recommended to those getting started fly-fishing (as opposed to new Tournament casters)and gave out to rodless visiting fishermen.  I still have a few new in the packaging he never gave out.  I have used a couple of those in the racks, and you’re right, they’re actually pretty decent rods. TC, R

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The idea is to figure out where Mr. Fish is hiding and what he wants to eat, not to look better than the other guy on the stream. (And if you still want to raise high the Orvis flag, well, you’re probably old enough to decide these things for yourself.) Absolutely true!  I own rods ranging from a $40.00 Cortland I keep in my car all the time, to an Orvis Battenkill cane rod. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that, as far as catching fish is concerned, next to the reel, the rod is the least important item I carry. True, a rod that suits your casting style is a lot more pleasant to use, but such a rod need not be prohibitively expensive. My $40.00 Cortland 8′ /5wt will do 90% of what my similar Sage will do at 1/10 the price, and because it is with me all the time, It probably outfishes the Sage aver the course of the season. The most important thing a fly fisherman takes to the stream with him is the stuff that resides between his ears. Common sense, knowledge of the quarry, and proper presentation are the things that catch fish. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

I agree, I have an old shakespeare wonderrod that I like to fish with the best. I guess it’s just what I am comfortable with is all. -Dave

Response:

The idea is to figure out where Mr. Fish is hiding and what he wants to eat, not to look better than the other guy on the stream. (And if you still want to raise high the Orvis flag, well, you’re probably old enough to decide these things for yourself.)

Absolutely true!  I own rods ranging from a $40.00 Cortland I keep in my car all the time, to an Orvis Battenkill cane rod. Over the years I have come to the conclusion that, as far as catching fish is concerned, next to the reel, the rod is the least important item I carry. True, a rod that suits your casting style is a lot more pleasant to use, but such a rod need not be prohibitively expensive. My $40.00 Cortland 8′ /5wt will do 90% of what my similar Sage will do at 1/10 the price, and because it is with me all the time, It probably outfishes the Sage aver the course of the season. The most important thing a fly fisherman takes to the stream with him is the stuff that resides between his ears. Common sense, knowledge of the quarry, and proper presentation are the things that catch fish. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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It’s the rod that works well for whatever you happen to be trying to do that afternoon. Lately, I’ve come to find an 8′ 5-weight, relatively slow for graphite, to be perfect. For a very slow grass stick in the same dimensions, I could be persuaded. I wouldn’t use it for bassing, though…hard to throw a huge streamer or popper into the wind with it and in my experience bass can put a lot more strain on, even if the fight may be a little shorter. Yeah, folks, let’s obsess here. Catching little ones in small streams in the suburbs is dirty work, but someone’s gotta do it. It’s almost as dirty as catching blue catfish, or lake trout, or whitefish…The fish will bite if you cast to them with a Pflueger that was on close-out at Bass Pro Shops. They don’t bite harder on bamboo than they do on glass or graphite. The idea is to figure out where Mr. Fish is hiding and what he wants to eat, not to look better than the other guy on the stream. (And if you still want to raise high the Orvis flag, well, you’re probably old enough to decide these things for yourself.) "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

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Question:

Phew. All kinds of generalities there, probably none of it of much help. But at least I didn’t skewer you ;^)

Actually, since he didn’t specify the conditions he would be fishing or his casting style, you sort of did by making him read yet another post about preferences<g. — Charlie…

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I just read through this thread hoping to pick up some reasoning for what would be the virtue of a slower action rod and I have to tell you I found almost zero usefull information.  Would you guys consider starting a new group alt.love_lost.2.old.rod?

Uh uh uh. Don’t taunt the bears! Wouldn’t be prudent. Or better yet, tell me why (and where) a slow rod beats a fast rod.

I believe that’s mostly a matter of casting style and/or experience. For many folks, especially less experienced ones, slower rods telegraph their loaded point louder than fast rods do, so a slower rod can be easier to cast – or learn to cast. The faster the rod the less obvious that same loaded-point becomes. One could make a case, I suppose, that a slower rod is easier to use in tight quarters (small streams, etc) regardless of casting style or expertise. I don’t have any wicked-fast small stream rods, they’re all moderate action or even a bit slow. I do have some real telephone poles for stripers and bluefish, however (eg: 9wt IMX, 7wt RPLX) as well as a couple of moderate-action rods (eg: 9wt IM6, 7wt IM6) and for fighting wind over the ocean I like casting the faster rods – which throw a tighter loop (very useful when casting side-arm to get down under the worst of the wind). I still have a couple of glass rods but really hated fishing saltwater with them. Too damned slow, not as much backbone, and casting a wide loop side-arm can be really risky business ;^) Phew. All kinds of generalities there, probably none of it of much help. But at least I didn’t skewer you ;^) /daytripper

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Aw c’mon Ken, the quality of free advice just wasn’t up to his standards.

I just don’t like whiners. I mean, I read his post hoping to find a really good borscht recipe. That damn post mentioned nothing whatsoever about borscht, but you don’t hear me whining about it. — Ken Fortenberry

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I feel the LL is one of Sage’s best creation.  It is one of the nicest rods to cast a line with.  I have a 389-3LL and use a Stillwater taper for most of my lake fishing.  I’ve even gone as far as using a type 2 uniform sink from SA.  It actually casted fine.   My buddy has a 489 and uses all different sink rates of lake lines on it.  You will need to make subtle changes to your casting stroke in order to make up for the slower action.  What rod do you have? Thanks, — Forrest http://www.FlyFishingREVIEW.com FlyFishingREVIEW.com win any SAGE rod! Before you buy.

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I’ll register in on the love side.   I’ve always preferred the softer action of the LL series, and the 490 LL is my absolute favorite rod ever. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any fans of the Sage Light Line Series out there?   Or for that matter, anybody hate the series? Personally I love it’s medium action and can’t believe they are discontinuing them (at least that’s what I heard).  Has anyone tried casting this rod with a sink tip or a wet line?  If so I’d particularly like to hear from you. Thinking of getting new lines for this rod but want to hear some comments/suggestions from others that have tried different line combos on this rod before rushing out to waste money.  Reason why I’m hesitating is because its light weight plus medium action might make this rod a nightmare to cast with sink tips or wet lines. Thanks!

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I also fall on the love side of the spectrum.  I think the LL and the RPL were the best rods Sage has made.   I currently own a SP+ which I use on the big open lakes and rivers out here in WA but I just bought a 2 pc. 3wt LL blank off of ebay for fishing the creeks and smaller waters.  I can’t wait to get it built.   Hopefully Sage will relearn the lesson that power isn’t everything and return to making these fine rods. Mike

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I currently own a SP+ which I use on the big open lakes and rivers out here in WA but I just bought a 2 pc. 3wt LL blank off of ebay for fishing the creeks and smaller waters.  I can’t wait to get it built.

I saw that blank and damned near went after it myself to build my wife a rod; but I just have too many rod projects in the works for the present. (Fixing my son’s epoxy & repairing my broken 9 wt.)   I’m glad I didn’t drive the price up for you.  :-) Joe F.

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I own a 9 foot 4 weight LL and love the thing. I am sick of fast action rods that stop a trout in its tracks. I also have an RPL+ 10 foot 7 weight and this is really a salmon rod. I caight a 14lb 2oz rainbow on it the other day and after a couple of minutes, the fish put its fins in the air and came quietly. Shame. I broke my big Sage in May, which is why August saw me fishing the Teifi at night for sea trout with my LL. I hooked, played and netted a fish of 5.5 lb and the fight was tremendous. So glad it wasn’t my RPL+. I have just bought a 3 piece 9 foot 6 weight SP and am dying to get out there with the thing. Softer action too, although not like the LL. The LL range is being continued, I understand, although only in a 3-piece and at a higher price. Bugger (woolly and otherwise)! Caspar – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Yep, I own 3 of the LL series…….2/4/6 wts.  Love ‘em.  I would class their action more as slow to medium, than strictly medium.  My casting style (if one could call it a ’style’, more like a grenade toss) is more suited to the slower action.  And no, I don’t use sinking lines on any of them because they are just not suited for throwing weight.  Having said that, I sometimes use a short piece of sinking leader to get the fly down if fishing in current or deeper water, but it is not a comfortable thing for me to do. If I’m tossing weighted buggers or need to use a sink tip, I switch to my St Croix medium action rods.  BTW, as to lines, I use SA Mastery or AirCell Supreme WF stuff.  FWIW- Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED Any fans of the Sage Light Line Series out there?   Or for that matter, anybody hate the series? Personally I love it’s medium action and can’t believe they are discontinuing them (at least that’s what I heard).  Has anyone tried casting this rod with a sink tip or a wet line?  If so I’d particularly like to hear from you. Thinking of getting new lines for this rod but want to hear some comments/suggestions from others that have tried different line combos on this rod before rushing out to waste money.  Reason why I’m hesitating is because its light weight plus medium action might make this rod a nightmare to cast with sink tips or wet lines. Thanks! Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

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I have cast a LL and am seriously thinking of getting a 489.  How do you think they compare with an SP or SPl?  Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Chris Brown

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Any fans of the Sage Light Line Series out there?  

I have a 490-4 LL that I’m quite fond of. I’ve tried several DT & WF floating lines on it, but no sinking lines. What works best for me is a Wulff TT 3/4. — Ken Fortenberry

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I own a 9 foot 4 weight LL and love the thing. I am sick of fast action rods that stop a trout in its tracks. I also have an RPL+ 10 foot 7 weight and this is really a salmon rod. I caight a 14lb 2oz rainbow on it the other day and after a couple of minutes, the fish put its fins in the air and came quietly. Shame.

[snip] Some people would say that was a good thing.

Response:

Chris, I like the SP action and use it for the most part.  I have a couple SP+’s and in the wind and for long casting, prefer them.  I fished a SPL last spring for a week and found it just too much like a noodle.  Too slow for me. Regards, Mike – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have cast a LL and am seriously thinking of getting a 489.  How do you think they compare with an SP or SPl?  Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Chris Brown

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I’ve had three LLs, one SP, one RPL and two RPs.  The LLs were always my favourites and my current 590 LL (an older graphite II model) will cast a type V sinktip with no problem.  Just have to open up the loop a bit, that’s all.  I do a lot of streamer fishing so all of my trout rods have to be able to throw sinktips as well as floating lines. Slow action doesn’t necessarily mean less power. Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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The Sage 389LL was one of the finest small-stream dry fly rods ever created.  It was originally produced in graphite II, and is one of the few blanks that survived a transition to graphite III without problems or substantial reworking.   Interestingly enough, it won a FR&R Kudo as a 2 weight – the slower action allowed it to load effectively with a 2 or a 3.  I fished mine (lost in the fire, alas) with a Triangle Taper 2/3, and it was superb.   I sorely miss it.  Since the fire, I bought one of the new SPL rods to replace it, but it just isn’t quite the same…….                                         Michael – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I currently own a SP+ which I use on the big open lakes and rivers out here in WA but I just bought a 2 pc. 3wt LL blank off of ebay for fishing the creeks and smaller waters.  I can’t wait to get it built. I saw that blank and damned near went after it myself to build my wife a rod; but I just have too many rod projects in the works for the present. (Fixing my son’s epoxy & repairing my broken 9 wt.)   I’m glad I didn’t drive the price up for you.  :-) Joe F.

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I picked up a 490-4 LL blank on ebay recently (a major relief for me – I thought I’d lost that rod forever).  It was being sold by Drake Rod Co. – the lady told me that she had a couple of them in stock, and I believe that she also had a 490-3 LLB as well.  If anyone’s interested in contacting them drop me an email and I’ll see if I can scare up the contact info.                                 Michael Roegner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any fans of the Sage Light Line Series out there?   I have a 490-4 LL that I’m quite fond of. I’ve tried several DT & WF floating lines on it, but no sinking lines. What works best for me is a Wulff TT 3/4.

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I got a 356 LL 2 years ago ( Yep, 5′-6") and absolutely love it for the small creeks I fish. I can cast under the canopy, cart it around in the bushes without getting hung up, and it casts up to 50′ with no problems, though it’s rare I see that much open space where I use it. I understand it was discontinued last year.         Steve

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I have the 490 3LL and I absolutely adore it.  I plan to get some new lines for it soon but wasn’t sure how well it would cast heavier lines like sink tips and wet lines. After hearing from a few people that’s actually tried sink tips and full sinks, I think I will give it a try.   Afterall, I like the rod so much I want to use it for most, if not all, of my outtings, both stream and lake. Thanks for the info. Ken. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I feel the LL is one of Sage’s best creation.  It is one of the nicest rods to cast a line with.  I have a 389-3LL and use a Stillwater taper for most of my lake fishing.  I’ve even gone as far as using a type 2 uniform sink from SA.  It actually casted fine.   My buddy has a 489 and uses all different sink rates of lake lines on it.  You will need to make subtle changes to your casting stroke in order to make up for the slower action.  What rod do you have? Thanks, — Forrest http://www.FlyFishingREVIEW.com FlyFishingREVIEW.com win any SAGE rod! Before you buy.

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(Flyfis4fun) writes: I also fall on the love side of the spectrum.  I think the LL and the RPL were the best rods Sage has made.   Hopefully Sage will relearn the lesson that power isn’t everything and return to making these fine rods. Moral of the story, if you find a rod you love, buy at least three of them cause sooner or later they ain’t gonna make em no more.

Oh Mister Gear Whore, you’re my HERO!

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(Flyfis4fun) writes: I also fall on the love side of the spectrum.  I think the LL and the RPL were the best rods Sage has made.  

{snip} Hopefully Sage will relearn the lesson that power isn’t everything and return to making these fine rods.

Moral of the story, if you find a rod you love, buy at least three of them cause sooner or later they ain’t gonna make em no more. Wayne Knight (remove nospam to respond via mail) Expert in the creation of  wind knots and tailing loops.

Response:

I just read through this thread hoping to pick up some reasoning for what would be the virtue of a slower action rod and I have to tell you I found almost zero usefull information.  Would you guys consider starting a new group alt.love_lost.2.old.rod?  Or better yet, tell me why (and where) a slow rod beats a fast rod. Mike

Response:

I just read through this thread hoping to pick up some reasoning for what would be the virtue of a slower action rod and I have to tell you I found almost zero usefull information.  Would you guys consider starting a new group alt.love_lost.2.old.rod?  Or better yet, tell me why (and where) a slow rod beats a fast rod. Mike

How in the hell can you read a newsgroup with your head stuck up your ass like that ? — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

I just read through this thread hoping to pick up some reasoning for what would be the virtue of a slower action rod and I have to tell you I found almost zero usefull information.  Would you guys consider starting a new group alt.love_lost.2.old.rod?  Or better yet, tell me why (and where) a slow rod beats a fast rod. Mike How in the hell can you read a newsgroup with your head stuck up your ass like that ?

Aw c’mon Ken, the quality of free advice just wasn’t up to his standards. What do you expect him to do, an internet search for articles or something? I mean, after all his vast contributions it seems he deserves better than this<g. — Charlie…

Response:

I just read through this thread hoping to pick up some reasoning for what would be the virtue of a slower action rod and I have to tell you I found almost zero usefull information.  Would you guys consider starting a new group alt.love_lost.2.old.rod?  Or better yet, tell me why (and where) a slow rod beats a fast rod. Mike

Let me take a minute here to wipe the sarcasm off your post, then I’ll try and answer your question.  First off, It isn’t a case of slow vs. fast, rather that each has it’s own characteristics that you can exploit in different situations. The biggest determinant is personal preference; some people love ‘em others don’t.  For the rest of the list of characteristics, these are generalizations and there are plenty of exceptions.  For sake of argument, assume that I’m comparing a slow Orvis Superfine 5 wt, to a fast Sage RPL+ 5 wt. Slow rods (Orvis Superfine) Loads easily with only a little line Short cast, mend and roll cast well Tend to be tolerant of under and over-lining Less fatiguing over a long day of fishing More delicate presentation Fast rods (Sage RPL+) Handles the wind better Stiff butt section gives better lifting power Easier to cast long Tighter loop control Pinpoint accuracy is easier But having said all of that, a good caster can be pinpoint accurate and handle the wind with a Superfine, or lay down a delicate cast with an RPL+ so we end up back with personal preference.   But there’s another determinant that you should keep in mind.  Some rods have a progressive action while others have more radical action. By this I mean that a progressive rod will simply work further down into the butt, the longer you cast and the more power you apply.  The relationship between power and distance on the one hand and how far the rod works into the butt on the other, is more or less linear. Casting a progressive rod doesn’t really take a change of casting stroke to cast long; merely lengthen the stroke a bit and apply a little more power.  Radical actions change between tip and butt so you may have a soft tip married to a stiff butt that requires a change in your casting stroke when casting long.  Radical actions try to combine the merits of slow and fast action rods in one but you have to pay a price by altering your casting stroke to accomondate the transition between slow tip and fast butt as the casting distance lengthens. Here’s a comparison – if you took an old Sage RPL 8 wt. and a Loomis GL3 Megataper 8/9 wt., and deflection tested them with identical weights, you may find that both delfected about the same amount so they would both be considered fast.  But the Sage would be bending well into the butt while the Loomis would accomodate most of the bending in the tip. So when casting, you’d find the Loomis will short cast easier but the Sage would be easier to cast over the full limits of its range.  The Loomis action was intended for flats fishing where you’d pick up a short bit of line with the tip, load quickly then bang out 60′-70′ with the butt, all in one casting motion.  The RPL would probably need one false cast to do the same. Next time don’t be so sarcastic and I won’t make you read as much.  :) Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Yep, I own 3 of the LL series…….2/4/6 wts.  Love ‘em.  I would class their action more as slow to medium, than strictly medium.  My casting style (if one could call it a ’style’, more like a grenade toss) is more suited to the slower action.  And no, I don’t use sinking lines on any of them because they are just not suited for throwing weight.  Having said that, I sometimes use a short piece of sinking leader to get the fly down if fishing in current or deeper water, but it is not a comfortable thing for me to do.  If I’m tossing weighted buggers or need to use a sink tip, I switch to my St Croix medium action rods.  BTW, as to lines, I use SA Mastery or AirCell Supreme WF stuff.  FWIW- Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any fans of the Sage Light Line Series out there?   Or for that matter, anybody hate the series? Personally I love it’s medium action and can’t believe they are discontinuing them (at least that’s what I heard).  Has anyone tried casting this rod with a sink tip or a wet line?  If so I’d particularly like to hear from you. Thinking of getting new lines for this rod but want to hear some comments/suggestions from others that have tried different line combos on this rod before rushing out to waste money.  Reason why I’m hesitating is because its light weight plus medium action might make this rod a nightmare to cast with sink tips or wet lines. Thanks!

Frank Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED

Response:

Any fans of the Sage Light Line Series out there?   Or for that matter, anybody hate the series? Personally I love it’s medium action and can’t believe they are discontinuing them (at least that’s what I heard).  Has anyone tried casting this rod with a sink tip or a wet line?  If so I’d particularly like to hear from you. Thinking of getting new lines for this rod but want to hear some comments/suggestions from others that have tried different line combos on this rod before rushing out to waste money.  Reason why I’m hesitating is because its light weight plus medium action might make this rod a nightmare to cast with sink tips or wet lines. Thanks!

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Question:

quelle sont les grandes marques de canne a mouche au canada merci d avance

Response:

quelle sont les grandes marques de canne a mouche au canada merci d avance

The question asks what great Canadian brands of fly rod there might be.  The short answer is none: 1.  No one makes their own blanks (plastic or cane) (so far as I know.) 2.  There are few rod making factories (as distinct from individual craftsmen), none reputed for high-quality rods. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

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quelle sont les grandes marques de canne a mouche au canada merci d avance

Premi

Question:

I was there May 20th of last year. I doubt there will be any runoff because the mountains aren’t high enough to get much snow.

Well, last year was a severe drought. This year was a banner snow year. From Santa Fe, you can still see snow well down the south face of Tschicoma (11,500), so I imagine that Redondo (11,200) and San Antonio (10,000) still have plenty of snow. The Jemez River and Rio San Antonio drain these mountains. I don’t have a recent report, but if you want the latest info for your trip, call (505) 98-TROUT. That’s the High Desert Angler in Santa Fe. They keep stream flow info on most norhtern NM streams including the Jemez Mtns. Bill Schudlich Santa Fe, NM

Response:

I was there May 20th of last year. I doubt there will be any runoff because the mountains aren’t high enough to get much snow. I did well in the Jemez river. The drought was severe at that time and the river was low and very warm, causing trout to be stacked up in shaded riffles. The Jemez reminded me of the streams we have here in North Carolina- small and lots of brush. The main area I fished was near Jemez Springs, above Soda Dam( a natural formation). One of the branches of the Jemez, over near the caldera, looks really nice. Would also be a good area for a day hike. The Jemez Mountain Inn in Jemez Springs is a great place to stay. The aquaduct flows right through the courtyard. Have a great trip, this is one of my favorite areas in New Mexico. Evan

Runoff in the Jemez can be severe. The peaks are well over 8,000 feet, and can collect quite a bit of snow.  Evan saw little snow last year because of a mild winter and severe drought.  This year, runoff is likely to last into late May, even early June.  Great thing about the Jemez streams, though, there are enough of them, you can usually find a clear one.  Good guide to the area is "Fly Fishing in Northern New Mexico" from UNM Press. Have fun!

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Will be going to the Jemez Mountains in New Mexico May 20th. I would like any information on good spots that won’t be raging with runoff. Thanks, Michael Smith

Response:

I was there May 20th of last year. I doubt there will be any runoff because the mountains aren’t high enough to get much snow. I did well in the Jemez river. The drought was severe at that time and the river was low and very warm, causing trout to be stacked up in shaded riffles. The Jemez reminded me of the streams we have here in North Carolina- small and lots of brush. The main area I fished was near Jemez Springs, above Soda Dam( a natural formation). One of the branches of the Jemez, over near the caldera, looks really nice. Would also be a good area for a day hike. The Jemez Mountain Inn in Jemez Springs is a great place to stay. The aquaduct flows right through the courtyard. Have a great trip, this is one of my favorite areas in New Mexico. Evan

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Question:

I’m going to try shad fishing this year in Mass.  Any recommendations for flies to tie?   Any other tips would also be appreciated.   _Rich_

Response:

  I’m going to try shad fishing this year in Mass.  Any   recommendations   for flies to tie?   Any other tips would also be appreciated.     _Rich_ Last year at the Merrimack River I had good luck with small clousers.  I can’t honestly say I was trying to catch just shad, but that’s what took the fly.  The most important aspect of this type of fishing is getting the fly down to where the fish are, any fly reasonably close in imitation will work as long as it gets down to the fish.  In a strong current you’re going to need a weighted line such as a Teeny 350, let the current and the line do the work for you. Don

Response:

Last year at the Merrimack River I had good luck with small clousers.  I can’t honestly say I was trying to catch just shad, but that’s what took the fly.  The most important aspect of this type of fishing is getting the fly down to where the fish are, any fly reasonably close in imitation will work as long as it gets down to the fish.  In a strong current you’re going to need a weighted line such as a Teeny 350, let the current and the line do the work for you. Don

I’ve been shad fishing the past two weekends on the Roanoke River in NC and have had the best success with 2-1/0 white/yellow clousers.  Everyone says to go small(6-4), but I did much better with the larger flies.  Granted, these are Hickory shad, but they did seem to prefer the larger fly.  I also had a lot of success with a gold or silver ’spoon’  fly(braided mylar coated with epoxy). The visibility in the Roanoke hasn’t been great, and they really seemed to like the flash.  -William Ivey   Raleigh, NC

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Question:

I’ve often seen the advice posted to ask a local fly shop about what flies are currently on a stream where I intend to fish and what a good stretch of water is.  If the fly shop is not near my home and therefore I don’t usually take my business there, what is the fair way to compensate them for their advice?  Should I buy a fly or two?  Some fur or feathers?

Sure that’d be good.  But lets say your headed there maybe next month.  In the mean time, give them a call and get their address.  Send them $20 or so, and ask them to gather up a few flies that should be working when you arrive and mail them to you.  Also ask them for a tip on locations, etc. Typically, you’ll get good stuff, probably more than what you actually paid for (lets say the $ covers 10 flies, most times you’ll get a dz anyway), plus you’ll have models for your own tying bench. When you get there, stop in.  You will be warmly greeted by the guy or gal who filled your order, and they’ll remember you as a friend.  Trust me on this- it always has been effective! — Mike Tucker- The Virtual Flyshop, The Complete Resource              Web Page:  http://rmii.com/~flyshop/flyshop.html              Tel. 970-498-8779   FAX 970-491-2585 If you try 970 and it doesn’t work use 303.  Leave it to US WEST to change our area code and not tell the rest of the world……

Response:

I’ve often seen the advice posted to ask a local fly shop about what flies are currently on a stream where I intend to fish and what a good stretch of water is.  If the fly shop is not near my home and therefore I don’t usually take my business there, what is the fair way to compensate them for their advice?  Should I buy a fly or two?  Some fur or feathers?  (I tie my own flies.)  Or do they really not mind some guy coming in, asking about flies and good spots, then walking out? Thanks for the advice/opinions, Dave

Response:

Braunegg) writes: I’ve often seen the advice posted to ask a local fly shop about what flies are currently on a stream where I intend to fish and what a good stretch of water is.  If the fly shop is not near my home and therefore I don’t usually take my business there, what is the fair way to compensate them for their advice?  Should I buy a fly or two?  Some fur or feathers?  (I tie my own flies.)  Or do they really not mind some guy coming in, asking about flies and good spots, then walking out? Thanks for the advice/opinions, Dave

Buy only what you need and try to give them some feedback on your experience so your not the only one getting something out of this. They aren’t running a community service, they are in business! Sharing good locations and tips keeps *customers* comming back so it makes good business sense, but, after a while, they may find that they take a bit longer to get to you…

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I’ve often seen the advice posted to ask a local fly shop about what flies are currently on a stream where I intend to fish and what a good stretch of water is.  If the fly shop is not near my home and therefore I don’t usually take my business there, what is the fair way to compensate them for their advice?  Should I buy a fly or two?  Some fur or feathers?  (I tie my own flies.)  Or do they really not mind some guy coming in, asking about flies and good spots, then walking out?

This is really a nice question to see.  Without deteriorating into a rant, if you go into a fly shop and someone won’t give you the time of day until you flash your AMEX, leave and go elsewhere.  There are too many people who run shops who simply don’t deal with anyone but their perceived "good customers."  Let ‘em starve.  In our shop, everyone I’ve hired remains employed primarily on a customer service basis.  The sales people are not commissioned.  In my mind and the vision of our store, we treat a purchase of a tippet and the purchase of an outfit are equally important.  If I catch someone short-answering any customer, I point out proper behavior. (and most of those guys got jobs with other fly shops . . . strange how that works.) Of course, store-folk are human.  We deal with the 20 questions about this knot, that fly, or those fisheries, many asked in the most unbelievably rude and offensive manner, and every once in a while, our heads start to whirl a bit.   So, as  a previous poster noted, it is nice to call back and return information.  Luckily, this business is still one in which relationships can develop between customers and shop owners.  As a customer, if you feel someone treated you well, return the favor.  If they were unhelpful and rude spend your money elsewhere.   Many times my eventual "best customers" came from a 15 minute phone conversation in which I didn’t make any money at all. Well, got to go open the shop — hope this helps –jim *                                                     *

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If I catch someone short-answering any customer, I point out proper behavior. (and most of those guys got jobs with other fly shops . . . strange how that works.) Luckily, this business is still one in which relationships can develop between customers and shop owners.  As a customer, if you feel someone treated you well, return the favor.  If they were unhelpful and rude spend your money elsewhere.  

Good to see this response from a fly shop owner. Where I live we have three fly shops.  I frequent two of them, and these tow are as happy to see a customer when he’s buying a sppol of tippet (or nothing at all) as when he’s buying a new rod.  The other shop just doesn’t have a friendly atmosphere.  I think the main thing that makes anyone a repeat customer in a fly shop is that they are comfortable there, even if they don’t spend their money.   As consumers, it’s only fair that we support the shops we like.  Don’t go cast a rod at your local shop, and the buy it through mail order because you can save a few bucks.  It’s low class, and it may result in the fly shop not being there the next time you really need something.  Want to wait three weeks for mail order when you need something for the weekend. Just my $0.02

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: I’ve often seen the advice posted to ask a local fly shop about what : flies are currently on a stream where I intend to fish and what a good : stretch of water is.  If the fly shop is not near my home and : therefore I don’t usually take my business there, what is the fair way : to compensate them for their advice?  Should I buy a fly or two?  Some : fur or feathers?  (I tie my own flies.)  Or do they really not mind : some guy coming in, asking about flies and good spots, then walking : out? : Thanks for the advice/opinions, : Dave         The easiest thing to do is to buy some of the flies that they recommend whether you tie or not there has to be something that you don’t have.         Rick

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Braunegg) writes: I’ve often seen the advice posted to ask a local fly shop about what flies are currently on a stream where I intend to fish and what a good stretch of water is.  If the fly shop is not near my home and therefore I don’t usually take my business there, what is the fair way to compensate them for their advice?  Should I buy a fly or two?  Some fur or feathers?  (I tie my own flies.)  Or do they really not mind some guy coming in, asking about flies and good spots, then walking out? Thanks for the advice/opinions, Dave Buy only what you need and try to give them some feedback on your experience so your not the only one getting something out of this. They aren’t running a community service, they are in business! Sharing good locations and tips keeps *customers* comming back so it makes good business sense, but, after a while, they may find that they take a bit longer to get to you…

Hi, I hate quoting quotes, but to follow this up… We welcome people just dropping in and chatting about NS and where to flyfish. I even went so far as to put in a map and a bl;ackboard and some markers for the map, and we made a "community fishing bulletin board- the old style not electronic!). Why I don’t mind, even if you don’t buy then, is that someday you will weant to buy, and hopefully you’ll remember us – In the meantime…. Tight Lines Bill Curry Tight Lines Tackle Shop and Guide Service Lockeport, Nova Scotia Canada   B0T 1L0 902-656-3329 (ph and fax)

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