Question:

I fish the manistee below m-72 when i can get the chance. I know the betsie much better though. I was on the manistee for the hex hatch this year. way too many bugs though. i didnt think i could ever be chased off of a river. mu i totally agree with you. I went onto steelheadsite and told everyone how i went to missouri and people that i met there told me that every one they met on their trip to michigan was arrogant. i no  longer wanted to be associated with fly fisherman. I just ignore it now though. if you are arrogant on the water to me. I will let you know. steelheadsite is a decent place. i met a guy off of there and he taught me a lifetime of things in 4 hours. great fisherman, great guy. dont judge everybody. but i do understand your prejudging of most of us fly fisherman. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks guys for the replys. A couple of years ago I was able to get us going with an information chain relative to the action on the rivers. I for reasons beyond control dropped out of sight and have only recenmtly returned here and to the rivers. Any one else like to get something like this moving? I will do my part if anyone is interested. Fished the Jordan Last weekend with moderate success. The stretches below Rogers brige produced a couple of hefty bows and two snmaller browns. Being the afternoon and fairly bright that is not surprising. I used a Light Cahill (10) and a Royal coachman bucktail (8) I tie with flashabu instead of bucktail. This is also a good spot for a Royal Wulf in a variety of sizes. Anybody fishing the Manistee below m-72? Tight Lines M. William Olson

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fish it every year. Know a couple of holes where big trout and hexes go hand in hand. As to further info, see www.troutbums.com/forums. Info from my friends is water is kind of warm, going to do the upper mannistee Tuesday morning, near where some springs come into it. Thanks guys for the replys. A couple of years ago I was able to get us going with an information chain relative to the action on the rivers. I for reasons beyond control dropped out of sight and have only recenmtly returned here and to the rivers. Any one else like to get something like this moving? I will do my part if anyone is interested. Fished the Jordan Last weekend with moderate success. The stretches below Rogers brige produced a couple of hefty bows and two snmaller browns. Being the afternoon and fairly bright that is not surprising. I used a Light Cahill (10) and a Royal coachman bucktail (8) I tie with flashabu instead of bucktail. This is also a good spot for a Royal Wulf in a variety of sizes. Anybody fishing the Manistee below m-72? Tight Lines M. William Olson

Upper Manistee? As in Deward area? I have a couple of buddies taht love that section, I have never been there with them and can never quite seem to find the right spot. Lots of pretty water though. Small but gorgeous. Let me know how you do please?

Response:

Fish it every year. Know a couple of holes where big trout and hexes go hand in hand. As to further info, see www.troutbums.com/forums. Info from my friends is water is kind of warm, going to do the upper mannistee Tuesday morning, near where some springs come into it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks guys for the replys. A couple of years ago I was able to get us going with an information chain relative to the action on the rivers. I for reasons beyond control dropped out of sight and have only recenmtly returned here and to the rivers. Any one else like to get something like this moving? I will do my part if anyone is interested. Fished the Jordan Last weekend with moderate success. The stretches below Rogers brige produced a couple of hefty bows and two snmaller browns. Being the afternoon and fairly bright that is not surprising. I used a Light Cahill (10) and a Royal coachman bucktail (8) I tie with flashabu instead of bucktail. This is also a good spot for a Royal Wulf in a variety of sizes. Anybody fishing the Manistee below m-72? Tight Lines M. William Olson

Response:

Thanks guys for the replys. A couple of years ago I was able to get us going with an information chain relative to the action on the rivers. I for reasons beyond control dropped out of sight and have only recenmtly returned here and to the rivers. Any one else like to get something like this moving? I will do my part if anyone is interested. Fished the Jordan Last weekend with moderate success. The stretches below Rogers brige produced a couple of hefty bows and two snmaller browns. Being the afternoon and fairly bright that is not surprising. I used a Light Cahill (10) and a Royal coachman bucktail (8) I tie with flashabu instead of bucktail. This is also a good spot for a Royal Wulf in a variety of sizes. Anybody fishing the Manistee below m-72? Tight Lines M. William Olson

Response:

Thanks guys for the replys. A couple of years ago I was able to get us going with an information chain relative to the action on the rivers.

You should check out http://www.steelheadsite.com/reports/michigan/ After lurking there for a while you’ll figure out who the serious anglers are.  Try to get in contact with them.  Once in a while a biologist from among a few of the more trustworthy and non-idiotic regulars.  I used to try to post thoughtful stuff there but found that ROFF is a far better place for really interesting and substantive discussion.  As far as reports go, yes, ROFF ain’t such a great place for sharing info on your local streams.  However I did meet a wonderful gentleman named Wayne Williams here on ROFF and we went fishing up on the Manistee.  Capital fellow with top manners and Southern hospitality.  FWIW though, I stayed away from fly fishing for a long time because most (with a few exceptions) of the FFers I met afield in Michigan were real jerks.  During my time in Michigan I basically was a self-taught fly angler.  Taught myself to cast from books and videos.  Taught myself to tie flies and build rods.  Most of the FFers I’ve met so far in California have been extremely friendly, helpful and generous – to the point that it’s very surprising. Mu

Response:

Went below the CCC bridge a couple of months ago. Very nice time. Lots of action even though the size left a lot to be desired. All went back in, so they are there for you to enjoy as well. Did do some FFing above the bridge but did not have as much luck. WLM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks guys for the replys. A couple of years ago I was able to get us going with an information chain relative to the action on the rivers. I for reasons beyond control dropped out of sight and have only recenmtly returned here and to the rivers. Any one else like to get something like this moving? I will do my part if anyone is interested. Fished the Jordan Last weekend with moderate success. The stretches below Rogers brige produced a couple of hefty bows and two snmaller browns. Being the afternoon and fairly bright that is not surprising. I used a Light Cahill (10) and a Royal coachman bucktail (8) I tie with flashabu instead of bucktail. This is also a good spot for a Royal Wulf in a variety of sizes. Anybody fishing the Manistee below m-72? Tight Lines M. William Olson

Response:

Question:

Hello, I am just getting into saltwater fly fishing after moving from a landlocked state to the Chesapeake Bay area.  Does anyone have any suggestions for a basic fly selection to get me started?  Thanks. Shannon

Response:

Clousers, deceivers, sand eel and a few shrimp patterns. There are more here: http://home.adelphia.net/~dmosthenes/ TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am just getting into saltwater fly fishing after moving from a landlocked state to the Chesapeake Bay area.  Does anyone have any suggestions for a basic fly selection to get me started?  Thanks. Shannon

Response:

Shannon,     I always like to go to the local experts when I get to a new place.  If you are fishing the Chesapeake, then you can’t go wrong with http://www.joebruce.com/  Its my favorite shop and Joe is well know for his ability to find and land fish.  I live in Severn, MD but I only moved here in June of last year.  The knowledge I’ve gained from the locals is incredible.  BTW, we not only have some incredible saltwater action, but the fresh water (browns, brookies, rainbows and smallies) is all around you.       Frank Reid

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, I am just getting into saltwater fly fishing after moving from a landlocked state to the Chesapeake Bay area.  Does anyone have any suggestions for a basic fly selection to get me started?  Thanks. Shannon

Response:

Question:

After a long cold spell, the temps hit sixty yesterday. As a respite for the 14 hour days I work during Christmas Break, I decided to get out for a couple of hours and enjoy the weather. My home river had been well frozen but since early December the flows have been good. When I got to the river, I noticed it had opened up some and it carried a slight amount of color from the melting snow and ice. I walked along enjoying the warm sun and checking the most promising areas for midging fish. I walked down to the river and dipped in my hand to check the water temp. The water was/seemed even colder than it was during the colder weather. I’ve read that thawing ice and melting snow from warmer weather can actually lower stream temps. My experience echoes this. It usually takes a couple of warmer days in the middle of the Winter to get the fish stirring. The first warm day seems to result in fewer feeding fish. Anyway, the usual Winter midging areas were devoid of fish and I saw very few midges out. The trail rises high above the the upper flats area, a major feeding area for a large, deep pool downstream, and fish spotting is good. I saw no fish in this quarter mile stretch. I continued to walk for awhile watching the ducks and the other birds and enjoying the day. Seeing no fish, I turned around and headed back to my van. I decided to check out one more spot before calling it quits. I sat down on a rock and watched the river for awhile. There, at the end of a current tongue was a small dimple or was it my imagination?  A couple of minutes later, the fish sipped another midge. Fish rising very occasionally like this one are often very difficult to rise to a fly because they are either mainly feeding underwater or are not earnestly feeding. Since, it was the only feeding fish I spotted, I gave it a try. Using a size 22 emerger midge, I made a series of casts to the general area of the rising fish with no results, when I spotted a dimple in a different area. Either the fish was cruising or there was more than one fish out. I stopped fishing for minute and watched for the next rise.  A fish sipped a midge closer in and I covered the rise with several casts, then had a solid take. The fish was surprising lively, given the cold water, and leapt out of the water several times. I slid the the fish onto an ice shelve and admired the bright coloration the Rainbows seems to take on during the Winter. I removed the hook, slid it into the water, sat down and watched the river again for spell.  The fish was either the only one feeding, or more likely, the others were put down by its aerobatics because I saw no other feeders. I packed up and headed home. Today, the temps will again be in the upper 50’s and maybe they’ll be a few more fish! Willi

Response:

…..Usual good reportage snipped… Thanks for the report, Willi. Just goes to show how a one-fish-trip can be a great trip. Danl Who would walk out to his "home water" cept for the 6 hour drive.

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    (captivating report snipped) damn, man, i love getting these reports.  you have a terrific, direct prose style.  paradise painted with a few strong colors. wayno

Response:

After about a week of training some extra summer help, I finally found time to get away yesterday. Runoff has really been moderate this year. Although the river was fairly high, it was only slightly discolored and carried some mud. I fished midday and there were numerous hatches going on, small Mays and a variety of caddis. The fish were very active and had moved into aggressive feeding stations in the few small pockets of calm water they found in the shallow runs and rapids. I got a number of strikes and landed a couple fish on a skittered dry, but didn’t really get into the fish until I started using nymphs. The fish I was targeting were in the areas of shallow, but heavy water. They were in the slower water lies at the edges of the stream and behind every substantial obstruction that provided protection from the current. Fishing was easy.  The fish were totally unselective and were feeding aggressively enough that they would come out of their lies and chase down the nymphs instead of waiting for the food to be drifting to them. The fights were spirited and aerobatic in the heavy flows. Fun, non fussy fishing. Willi

Response:

(pleasant report snipped) The fish were totally unselective and were feeding aggressively enough that they would come out of their lies and chase down the nymphs instead of waiting for the food to be drifting to them. The fights were spirited and aerobatic in the heavy flows. Fun, non fussy fishing. Willi

    willi, i think you have more pleasant trips astream than all the rest of us combined.  thanks for the report, and congratulations on a charmed piscatorial life. wayno

Response:

I live five minutes away from an urban river, as do over 100,000 other people, but very few other people fish it for a variety of reasons. I’m self employed and I try to get out, even if it’s only for an hour, as often as possible.  Much better for your soul than watching the tube. Every where I’ve lived, with the exception of Chicago, I’ve managed to find some fishing close by that was ignored by other people. Not always trout sometimes a stream with smallmouth and rockbass, a farm pond with bluegills and bass, or a muddy creek with catfish. People tend to drive past lots of good water to get to some far off place that is somehow better. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (pleasant report snipped) The fish were totally unselective and were feeding aggressively enough that they would come out of their lies and chase down the nymphs instead of waiting for the food to be drifting to them. The fights were spirited and aerobatic in the heavy flows. Fun, non fussy fishing. Willi     willi, i think you have more pleasant trips astream than all the rest of us combined.  thanks for the report, and congratulations on a charmed piscatorial life. wayno

Response:

Question:

Yep, the Lindners have sold In-Fisherman to Primedia Inc. on Tuesday according to John Husar in his column in todays Chicago Tribune. Thoughts? Jay — I’d rather be chasing walleye’s at Tenmile Lake!

Response:

If this means the Lindners tv presentations, thier style of presenting a full spectrum of fishing for ALL the various fish, the style and content of thier magazine, will all be changed or discarded,then yes,it’s truly a sad day for  thier thousands of fans.                                               ~ The Saint                                                        

Response:

hell yeah its sad but all their magazines books and videos will be worth something in the future im keeping mine!!!                                      

Question:

[deleted] Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros. But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management. Man shall have dominion over the beasts.

True, but they do have money and money buys influence and power. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Marty P.E.T.A   People for the Ethical Termination of Antihunters If we are not supposed to eat animals…then why are they made out of meat?

Response:

– — TimW Halfordian Golfer [deleted] Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros. But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management. Man shall have dominion over the beasts. True, but they do have money and money buys influence and power.

They do not have as much money as The Church does and that is where I’ll take the case when I am banned from harvesting God’s bounty. TimW

Response:

Man didn’t make it to the top of the food chain to eat grass!!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros. But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management. Man shall have dominion over the beasts. True, but they do have money and money buys influence and power. — TimW Halfordian Golfer Marty P.E.T.A   People for the Ethical Termination of Antihunters If we are not supposed to eat animals…then why are they made out of meat?

Response:

They do not have as much money as The Church does and that is where I’ll take the case when I am banned from harvesting God’s bounty.

So the Religious Right takes on the AR Wacko’s? Here’s a preview: RR: Man was given dominion over the beasts of the field,        and the birds of the air, and of the fish that swim in the        sea.  They’re ours to use for our benefit, by authority        of Holy Writ. AR: Didn’t someone say, "Thou shalt not kill?".  Nothing was        said about which species, was it?  Huh?  Huh? RR: Don’t get smart with me, tofu-breath!  May I point out that        mankind was cast out of the Garden for eating, not meat,        but an APPLE! AR: Hey, who died and made you God?!?  I don’t have to take that        kind of crap from any wild-eyed, Bible-quotin’ Bambi-blaster! RR: Defiler of Gods Word! AR:  Devourer of the innocent! RR:  Tofu-sucking worm!! AR:  Meat-eating carnivore!! RR:  Slime!!! AR:  Pig!!! <sound of fisticuffs.  Divers alarums and excursions I’ll bring the popcorn.  :-) — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

Response:

Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other." Would anybody else care to urge that, in this new year, we all support fish, fishing, and. . .each other?  Your way, his way, her way, their way–of fishing?  Isn’t it all great?  Isn’t it all, after all, OUR WAY? Regards, Jess Thompson

Response:

Jesse: fishin’ is fishin’ and I agree we should support each other even when we disagree ;^). Ralph H – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other." Would anybody else care to urge that, in this new year, we all support fish, fishing, and. . .each other?  Your way, his way, her way, their way–of fishing?  Isn’t it all great?  Isn’t it all, after all, OUR WAY? Regards, Jess Thompson

Response:

Great sentiment but it doesn’t generate much interaction or reaction.  It’s just like the news on TV or in the papers, never any good news like how someone saved another persons life, how a policeman came to the aid of a harrassed citizen, how a ghetto kid scored the highest on his SATs etc.  All we get is bad news & the more sensational the better.  It seems that good news just bores people. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other." Would anybody else care to urge that, in this new year, we all support fish, fishing, and. . .each other?  Your way, his way, her way, their way–of fishing?  Isn’t it all great?  Isn’t it all, after all, OUR WAY? Regards, Jess Thompson

Response:

Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other."

Sorry, but it’s just too sappy a subject to get much followup, IMO. I mean, really, where do you want it to go ? "I love you Ralph !" "I love you too Moe !" Conflict is *good*, man, it preceeds real progress. Would anybody else care to urge that, in this new year, we all support fish, fishing, and. . .each other?  Your way, his way, her way, their way–of fishing?  Isn’t it all great?  Isn’t it all, after all, OUR WAY?

No… No way in hell will I ever support: 1) Bassmasters 2) Jackson Hole One Fly (or any fishing competition, with the exception of the Martha’s Vineyard Derby) 3) Fern Bar fly shops 4) Wet Golfing 5) Fishermen that do not like to eat fish — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No… No way in hell will I ever support: 1) Bassmasters 2) Jackson Hole One Fly (or any fishing competition, with the exception of the Martha’s Vineyard Derby) 3) Fern Bar fly shops 4) Wet Golfing 5) Fishermen that do not like to eat fish — TimW Halfordian Golfer

I regard to point #5. I’m allergic to fish; does that count? John Knight Sydney FlyRodders’

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No… No way in hell will I ever support: 1) Bassmasters 2) Jackson Hole One Fly (or any fishing competition, with the exception of the Martha’s Vineyard Derby) 3) Fern Bar fly shops 4) Wet Golfing 5) Fishermen that do not like to eat fish — TimW Halfordian Golfer

I do so want you to like me.  I’m safe on 1 to 4 but do I qualify for point 5 if I went to the Thistle yesterday and had fish & chips with a pint of Tartan? Peter

Response:

Absolutely support each other on the water.  Share the pop or beer, give away patterns that are working, occaisionally tell of a relatively well known spot that is fishing well.         But in here, let the melting and melding of ideas and emotion flow freely.  The back and forth of opposing views is a big part of a news group like this.  If this was nothing more than the exchange of information it would lose it’s appeal for me – probably alot of us. JE

Response:

I do so want you to like me.  I’m safe on 1 to 4 but do I qualify for point 5 if I went to the Thistle yesterday and had fish & chips with a pint of Tartan?

Do you practice Zero Retention for Cod ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do so want you to like me.  I’m safe on 1 to 4 but do I qualify for point 5 if I went to the Thistle yesterday and had fish & chips with a pint of Tartan? Do you practice Zero Retention for Cod ? — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Tim Only after a bowel movement. Peter

Response:

Amongst our fellow anglers we may quarrel and disagree at length.  But when it comes to animal rights types (PETA, fund for animals, Pieces etc.) we must stand with the worm dunker and the Bassmaster or shurly we will all fall.  Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros.     Hello, Under "Fishin’ is Fishin’ " this suggestion, that I could tell, brought no support, so I’m trying it under this heading:  "Support each other."

snip

Response:

[deleted] Dont kid your self my FFing kin Peta hates you catch and release types as much as the tournament pros.

But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management. Man shall have dominion over the beasts. — TimW Halfordian Golfer

Response:

Tim W. wrote But they have no defensible position against subsistence fishing or hunting or these as a component of wildlife management.

they dont need a defensible position, there nuts! They think everyone should live a strict vegan lifestyle. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Man shall have dominion over the beasts. Amen. — <snip

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Question:

: On a related note, there was a mudslide in the Fraser Canyon today near : Lytton, BC. Wiped out the rail line, causing several tank cars of sulphur : to derail and catch fire. Have to see where this one goes Serious?  That will probably be nastier than the chlorine spill. Sheesh… it must be pretty nasty now… — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

: : On a related note, there was a mudslide in the Fraser Canyon today near : Lytton,BC. Wiped out the rail line, causing several tank cars of sulphur : : to derail and catch fire. A small community near the derailment was evacuated (and still is); three days after the derailment, all is not yet out. Will check the news

Wow, that’s nasty!  I’ll bet you can smell sulfur dioxide for miles around. -Burton — L. Burton Hawley           2330 NW Hummingbird Corvallis, OR

Response:

: : On a related note, there was a mudslide in the Fraser Canyon today near : : Lytton, BC. Wiped out the rail line, causing several tank cars of sulphur : : to derail and catch fire. Have to see where this one goes : Serious?  That will probably be nastier than the chlorine spill. : Sheesh… it must be pretty nasty now… A small community near the derailment was evacuated (and still is); three days after the derailment, all is not yet out. Will check the news tonight to see if they have successfully removed what’s left of the bodies of the two crewman who were on the derailed cars at the time of the accident. — 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (250) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (250) 368-9341

Response:

Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Has there been any update on the possible environmental effects of last April’s train derailment outside Alberton, (which spilled tons of chlorine gas into the air, causing the evacuation of the entire town for a week)?

Hi Tom You are right. The chlorine did not get into the water but it did kill several acres of trees/brush. I drove through the day they reopened I-90. The spill area was right next to the highway. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products http://www.btsflyfishing.com ($.12 hooks from Japan)

Response:

: The chlorine would have presented some problems in an enclosed valley : (hence the evacuation) but all of the damage to flora and fauna would : have occurred in the first few minutes of exposure. After that, there : would be no impact (except, of course, for what died immediately). : Chlorine, while not something you want to encounter in high doses, occurs : quite abundantly in nature, and returns to its natural states (e.g. in : the form of chloride salts) quite quickly. Not in the atmosphere.  As I’m sure you’ve heard, it is chlorine (atoms, which will be created from chlorine molecules in sunlight) which is a big contributor to ozone depletion.  The "natural state" of chlorine is, well, chlorine, as it is commonly defined at STP. : As I recall, the spill occurred out of the water; most of the gas would : therefore have dispersed almost immediately into the air, not the river. : Even if the rupture had been underwater, any damage would have been : immediate (i.e. kills of fish, bugs in the immediate area). The stuff : would have been flushed almost immediately, leaving no long-term water : quality problems – certainly none involving health issues. I don’t think so.  Think about a swimming pool or hot tub.  The pH is checked after addition of a source chlorine… the water can become very acidic, which poses long term threat. Fish hate trace levels of chlorine and are also sensitive to pH.  (Try putting some trout in your swimming pool.) — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Has there been any update on the possible environmental effects of last April’s train derailment outside Alberton, (which spilled tons of chlorine gas into the air, causing the evacuation of the entire town for a week)?

The chlorine would have presented some problems in an enclosed valley (hence the evacuation) but all of the damage to flora and fauna would have occurred in the first few minutes of exposure. After that, there would be no impact (except, of course, for what died immediately). Chlorine, while not something you want to encounter in high doses, occurs quite abundantly in nature, and returns to its natural states (e.g. in the form of chloride salts) quite quickly. Are there any concerns about water quality problems in the Clark Fork as a result? What’s the buzz on this?

As I recall, the spill occurred out of the water; most of the gas would therefore have dispersed almost immediately into the air, not the river. Even if the rupture had been underwater, any damage would have been immediate (i.e. kills of fish, bugs in the immediate area). The stuff would have been flushed almost immediately, leaving no long-term water quality problems – certainly none involving health issues. 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (250) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (250) 368-9341

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In order to promote a commonality of spirit and in rememberance of my late and great dear friend Lee Wulff, I offer the following contest and prizes. Rules: Tie FOUR WULFF FLIES. 1) The Royal Wulff 2) A Blonde or Cream Wulff 3) A Tan Wulff 4) A Grey Wulff 6) One Streamer 7) One Fly of tiers own choosing.  Unlimited Entry. Sizes of the entries choosing.  Small as well as large sizes have equal consideration

EXCELLENT !!!! Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes Yes ! Thank you George…Looking forwards and not backwards. My bugs’ll be there !   *AND* my Grey Wulff will win… 8^) TimW Here’s hoping for snow on the slopes and a heater near the tying bench !!! [This is gonna be cool]

Response:

In order to promote a commonality of spirit and in rememberance of my late and great dear friend Lee Wulff.This sounds like a nice contest.Contests don’t have to have huge prizes

to be well recieved! As a former rep. (Western Canada) and  outdoor columnist/writer (I do not get sick of talking about the outdoors), I always admire any manufacturer that shows support for the business in one way or another. As I muddle around with considering repping again in Onatrio, I applaud this initiative, and will mention it at Kingstons next flyfishing get together.F.Y.I. I am starting a new Canadian Outdoor Collector newsletter (I got fed up with the lack of Canuck perspective/content for outdoor collectibles, etc.) regards Outdoor Columnist 101 Bridge St. W. Napanee, Ont., K7R-2C8

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In order to promote a commonality of spirit and in rememberance of my late and great dear friend Lee Wulff, I offer the following contest and prizes. Rules: Tie FOUR WULFF FLIES. 1) The Royal Wulff 2) A Blonde or Cream Wulff 3) A Tan Wulff 4) A Grey Wulff 6) One Streamer 7) One Fly of tiers own choosing.  Unlimited Entry. Sizes of the entries choosing.  Small as well as large sizes have equal consideration Flies submitted to be postmarked by 2 January 1997 Prizes are as follows: 1st Place/Prize         $ 50.00 2nd Place/Prize         $ 40.00 3rd Place/Prize         $ 10.00 4th – 20th Place        Product of your choice. GEHRKE’S GINK will honor all prize/cash payments even if only four entries are made. All flies submitted to the contest become the property of GEHRKE’S GINK. A featured article in our World Famous Newsletter; "Uncle Gink’s Cave" will be published on the winning entries.  All entries should tell us somthing about their flies and of themselves.  How long they have tied, etc. Flies may be photographed for publication in "Uncle Gink’s Cave" which is circulated World Wide to over 6,000 dealers and wholesalers. All those who enter ‘George’s Great Gobs of Flies’ Contest will receive a copy of the Newsletter.  This contest is open to all fly tiers around the world.  The prize is not so much the money but rather the worth of being judged by and shown too a very large audience. Send all entries to the attention of: Mr. George Gehrke Presidents Fly Judging Contest Snake River – Hell’s Canyon Asotin, WA 99402 The contest starts now.  Each year’s contest will honor specific fly patterns invented by long honored tiers.  The ‘Unlimited Class’ will always remain a standard feature.  In this arena, a size .32 midge has every chance of winning as a Blue Doctor will.  It’s been a long time since we’ve seen a good, traditional and properly tied Salmon Fly. Good luck, one and all. Mr. George Gehrke

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Question:

Hi, I am moving to Dusserdorf in the near future. I am thinking of taking my flyfishing equipment with me, or at least tie some flies while I am there. So if anybody can help me with these questions, I would preciate. Are there any areas for fly fishing in that area?

Hi Jussi Virtanen, do you mean Duesseldorf in Germany ? If it is, I can help you.      Michael  …. tie a fly when the trout comes high,          that’s high ..                                          mail: it’s only my opinion                 Michael Nolte

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Hi, I am moving to Dusserdorf in the near future. I am thinking of taking my flyfishing equipment with me, or at least tie some flies while I am there. So if anybody can help me with these questions, I would preciate. Are there any areas for fly fishing in that area? Can I get supplies to tie my own flies from that area ? (important) How well equipped area the local shops in that area ?                         Jussi Virtanen

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Question:

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Hi.  I am new to fishing but just purchased a rod and spin outfit to take on a backpacking/rock climbing trip to the Big Sandy area in the southern Wind River Mountains in Wyoming.  The lakes where we’ll be (Clear Lake and Deep Lake near Mt. Haystack, most likely) are supposedly full of brook trout, and we hope to catch some for a couple of nice dinners (I’ll get my partner to pack in the wine by marking it "fuel", I suppose!).  I have been told that any fly resembling a mosquito (Irresistible Adams was suggested as a first choice, as well as Wooly Worms and Wooly Buggers) would work well, though I don’t know what hook size would be appropriate. I really don’t know mcuh about catching a fish.  Some of the questions I have are: Is this information in a FAQ I haven’t found? Which would work best? How does one use a spin outfit to cast with flies?   Can I just put on a bubble or a piece of shot and cast like that? Would I be better off just using a small spinner or jig? The last few days here in New Haven, Connecticut have been beautiful.  We spent yesterday rock climbing at the Shawangunks, New York.  I hope the days are fine in your neck of the woods! Thanks for any help.  Please email any responses since I don’t get to check newsgroups too often. Much obliged, Rene’ Renteria

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Question:

Normally I just give any fish I catch a slurp of beer before I let it go.   Sometimes a puff off my Cuentes Fuega, if I’m really in a good mood. Tim Walker

Most of the fish I catch prefer a fine Macanudo, but I’ve noticed no preference for any particular beer. Grant  

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : Bob feeding wild trout in Montana may not make the F&G happy but its makes : us who release them smile. Write me on e-mail about feeding trout because :                                                                     Bryant : Blewett STOP IT  !!! STOP IT RIGHT NOW DAMMIT !!!   Feeding Wild Trout ? You *MUST* be joking, RIGHT ?!?!? This really, really irritates me and I’ll flame until the damn cows come into the barn.  What are you trying to do here ?  Be ‘nice’ to the little fishies ?  What do you want…do you want them to come around like little collies when you get home from work ? You wanna *FEED* wild trout ?  Stay out of the damn river bed and let the little 400 per sq feet caddis worms make it to another instar.  You wanna be ‘nice’ to the fishie…don’t handle it at all out of the water. I’m sorry, but IMHO this is a really stupid idea. Tim Walker

Have to agree with Tim.  This bizarre practice, of which I have not heard until joining this newsgroup, smacks of trout training.  Now granted, most of us enjoy fishing for non-native species in non-natural environments (e.g., rainbow and brown trout in tailwater areas), so decrying the practice as ‘unnatural’ may be pointless; still, once you have shocked a fish’s system as hard as we do when we catch them, it seems outrageous to think that force-feeding them a grub before release can do anything but hurt them.  If you need to "pay the gods" or in some other way assuage your guilt about this sport, I suggest thinking seriously about what happens when we fish.  The bottom line is this:   Fishing KILLS FISH, whether we release them or not.  A 4% mortality rate on released fish seems like wishful thinking; and even if true, that’s 4 dead fish for every hundred you release.  It seems like some twisted form of denial to claim that we are helping trout by fishing for them.   Our "help" is a by-product of the fact that we care so much about them. Trying to obscure the fatal nature of our sport shows, I think, a lack of responsibility for our actions.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Forgive me if this thread has come and gone…I haven’t seen it in the approx. six months I’ve been on the net. Whilst flipping through one of my many catalogs (Orvis? Cabela’s?) I came across the "accessories" page and found all of those ludicrous gadgets that no one in their right mind should pay money for like long handled bug nets, mesh mits to wear on your hand to "sift the drift", etc.  This section also contained what looked like one of those basting tubes you use to baste your turkey, i.e. it looks like a large plastic medicine dropper.  This contraption turned out to be a stomach pump, used to check out what a fish was eating without chopping it up. I had heard that these things were out there, but had never seen one before and it got me thinking…how many people actually use such things?  Is the act of pumping out a fish’s stomach traumatic to the fish?  My guess is that the potential is there to do some serious damage.  Why would you use one of these things, anyway…if you’ve caught a fish, then you are using an imitation that looked enough like what the fish wanted to eat, enough to fool the fish, anyway.      Besides, isn’t much of the fun in flyfishing the mental aspects of solving the puzzle of what the fish are eating (and getting a reasonable facsimile in front of them)? Using one of these things seems to me a lot like doing a crossword puzzle by copying the solution from the back of the book. However, this concern of mine is secondary to my concern for the welfare of a pumped out fish.  Any thoughts? Paul DiConza       NY Capital District Angler

After reading this, my first reaction was if the fish wasn’t tramatized by the pump, then he probably had a reduced chance of surviving due to having an empty stomach and having to fill it again. This got me to thinking…. I know it’s weird, but what if before you release a fish you drop a food pellet or something similar into it’s gullet? A caught fish has to expend energy to fight, and if we are releasing fish, we want them to survive. Won’t their chances of survival be increased if we feed them before we release them? Maybe a fisheries biologist can concoct a high protien multi-vitamin pellet to give the fish before it’s released. Perhaps we can tip the scales in favor of survival instead of making the fish use precious energy needed for making through the next winter. Any comments? Darryl

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 A feeding frenzy breaks the placidity of the surface as wild voracious brown and rainbows(B.W.-Before Whirl) attack the pellets like blues on shad. He is prepared with his double pom pom chow fly he just bought at the Orvis

.shop.  He casts.  Hooks.  Lands.  He has to beach the 11" brut. Use cigarrete butts, they float well and their free. (accept at Orvis)

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: Normally I just give any fish I catch a slurp of beer before I let it go.   : Sometimes a puff off my Cuentes Fuega, if I’m really in a good mood. C’mon, you’re just blowing smoke up our…gills. Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

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STOP IT  !!! STOP IT RIGHT NOW DAMMIT !!!   Feeding Wild Trout ? You *MUST* be joking, RIGHT ?!?!? This really, really irritates me and I’ll flame until the damn cows come into the barn.  What are you trying to do here ?  Be ‘nice’ to the little fishies ?  What do you want…do you want them to come around like little collies when you get home from work ? You wanna *FEED* wild trout ?  Stay out of the damn river bed and let the little 400 per sq feet caddis worms make it to another instar.  You wanna be ‘nice’ to the fishie…don’t handle it at all out of the water. I’m sorry, but IMHO this is a really stupid idea. Tim Walker

    Tim, you seem to be a bit upset.

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I have been giving C&R fish nice fat grubs for the last several years. My only problem is, how do I explain to the game warden that "no I was not using bait…." On some rivers, you get to know some of the regular large trout.  Some guys bring in food, or toss peices of their lunch to these fish.  Peices of bologna, or wounded grasshoppers found on shore.  They just toss the food to the fish swimming in the river.  Somehow this seems a little more humane  and a lot easier.

And in some states, this could be called "chumming" and is illegal. IMHO, the practice doesn’t make sense anyway.  After being caught, a fish will be tired and scared, and the last thing it wants to do is eat dinner. It usually wants to go hide in a hole and recover for a while. A properly played fish shouldn’t need an extra meal to survive. — Hewlett Packard Co.                         Fort Collins, Colorado       "Midnight shakes the memory as a madman shakes a dead geranium."                                             – T.S. Eliot

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Is the act of pumping out a fish’s stomach traumatic to the fish?   I don’t think anyone in their right mind would think they could do this on a fish to be released, …. Are these things marketed for use on fish to be released? Mark Vinsel Mark, you make a good point which I hadn’t thought about.  I just assumed that stomach pumps were in fact marketed for fish to be released.  It never occurred to me that one would want to use a pump on a dead fish…. Paul DiConza

I’ve seen fly fishing videos that demonstrate the use of a stomach pump on fish to be released, and that are fully expected to live.  I feel that there are many things that a flyfisher can do to increse a fish’s chances of survival, and certainly the less a fish is handled the better.  I try to release a fish at my feet while it is still in the water, by just grasping the fly and giving a quick little backwards twist.  I rarely touch a fish at all unless I plan to keep it.  On the other hand I am sure that those who use a stomach pump on a fish are trying to inteligently study the eating habits of the fish they catch, while still giving the fish a "good" chance of survival.   I hope the fish do survive, and I think that most could, if the angler is conscientious about all aspects of the catch/pump/and release process.  Let’s try not to be to hasty about condemning others about their fishing beliefs.   After all, those who don’t fish at all give the fish a much higher chance of survival.  Where does that place us on the rightousness continuum? Provo, Utah

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I don’t know, and I maybe putting my foot in my mouth, but I have read several books and articles about using stomach pumps on fish.  Some scientists say that if you are careful (and quick), using the pump will not hurt the fish in the slightest. -Paul *                       *    "To catch a river unguarded is less a        * * Paul "Cousin" Graham   *    matter of where to look than of when, and   * *                          *  I have a secret time."-Ted Leeson           *

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – … Is the act of pumping out a fish’s stomach traumatic to the fish?   Yes, unless the fish was dead first. I don’t think anyone in their right mind would think they could do this on a fish to be released, especially considering the clear correlation between small time out of water and death rate. I often check the contents of fish I keep, and it is fascinating. I have found two different fish caught from the same section of the same lake at the same time, each gorged with a different specific nymph. I have also set the contents in a cup of water over a weekend trip and watched most of the nymphs come back to life and hatch. A pump is not necessary. Are these things marketed for use on fish to be released? Mark Vinsel

Mark, you make a good point which I hadn’t thought about.  I just assumed that stomach pumps were in fact marketed for fish to be released.  It never occurred to me that one would want to use a pump on a dead fish, when it is so easy to examine the contents of the stomach when the fish is cut open. Maybe some people are too squeamish?!  However, in the back of my mind I seem to recollect a story I read where people were using these things on live fish and releasing the fish to die in the river.  I hope this practice isn’t widespread. Paul DiConza NY Capital District Angler

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Are these things marketed for use on fish to be released?

Yes!  I think it’s a cruel hoax on both fisherfolk and fish to even sell these things.  Now that I’m thinking about it, I beleive I shall send a letter to all my FF supliers and ask them to discontinue carrying them.  If you want to kill and eat a fish, feel free to examine it’s innards.  If you are going to let it go, then please do your best to insure that your efforts are rewarded with the fish surviving so I can catch it later.  Factors that have been shown to improve survival of C&R fish are:         1.      Use barbless hooks.         2.      Use single point hooks.         3.      Use artificial baits (eg flies)         4.      Handle the fish as little as possible         5.      Avoid taking the fish out of water Good luck, and may you get lots of practice in the art of C&R. . Lenny Bloksberg . .

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I agree that pumping the inerds of a fish is nasty and mean thing to do. Also, I imagine that it takes a lot of good fishing time away. Are we on the stream to peer into the gizzards of a lovely fish or enjoy the environment and …  Of course, if you’re trying to retrieve a fly… –grant

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… Is the act of pumping out a fish’s stomach traumatic to the fish?  

Yes, unless the fish was dead first. I don’t think anyone in their right mind would think they could do this on a fish to be released, especially considering the clear correlation between small time out of water and death rate. I often check the contents of fish I keep, and it is fascinating. I have found two different fish caught from the same section of the same lake at the same time, each gorged with a different specific nymph. I have also set the contents in a cup of water over a weekend trip and watched most of the nymphs come back to life and hatch. A pump is not necessary. Are these things marketed for use on fish to be released? Mark Vinsel May the wild ones live, and may their progeny break the tippets of our grandchildren. Visit my gallery: http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.HTML

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Forgive me if this thread has come and gone…I haven’t seen it in the approx. six months I’ve been on the net. Whilst flipping through one of my many catalogs (Orvis? Cabela’s?) I came across the "accessories" page and found all of those ludicrous gadgets that no one in their right mind should pay money for like long handled bug nets, mesh mits to wear on your hand to "sift the drift", etc.  This section also contained what looked like one of those basting tubes you use to baste your turkey, i.e. it looks like a large plastic medicine dropper.  This contraption turned out to be a stomach pump, used to check out what a fish was eating without chopping it up.       I had heard that these things were out there, but had never seen one before and it got me thinking…how many people actually use such things?  Is the act of pumping out a fish’s stomach traumatic to the fish?  My guess is that the potential is there to do some serious damage.  Why would you use one of these things, anyway…if you’ve caught a fish, then you are using an imitation that looked enough like what the fish wanted to eat, enough to fool the fish, anyway.      Besides, isn’t much of the fun in flyfishing the mental aspects of solving the puzzle of what the fish are eating (and getting a reasonable facsimile in front of them)? Using one of these things seems to me a lot like doing a crossword puzzle by copying the solution from the back of the book. However, this concern of mine is secondary to my concern for the welfare of a pumped out fish.  Any thoughts? Paul DiConza     NY Capital District Angler

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