Question:

If one hand is clapping, what is the other hand doing to generate the applause?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary. Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . .

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You don’t want to know about Opie’s sex life.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If one hand is clapping, what is the other hand doing to generate the applause?

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snip Well said Grasshopper. Dave

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

Why would you want to understand it, and why do you hate America? Tim

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

It has been asked, "How should those who enter The path apply their minds?" All things are originally uncreated And presently undying. Just let your mind be free; You don’t have to restrain it. See directly and hear directly; Come directly and go directly. When you must go, then go; When you must stay, then stay. – Niu-t’ou Hui-chung (683-769)

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I believe that the current minimum length of time required, is from the DEC flyfishing list days to present.  Anything shorter is will result in a less than complete understanding.  One large short cut that has been found to be effective in shortening this is, to killfile any and all posts by muskie and He Who Must Not Be Named (GG,Bamboorods  and his various incarnations). I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

– Chris Richer chrisratnostormspamdotca

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

Who knows?   Best to ignore the perceived personalities, and just read the posts, or not, depending on your current inclination. It is rare to understand anyone, much less an electronic projection of someone, it is easier to simply accept some things. TL MC

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If you ever think you have figured this place out, or have a grip on the relative personas, you should be very concerned about your own mental state. jh

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group?   After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

If you ever do understand this place, you will become bored, and wander off. — Charles Davis    K4SWB <I’m The NRA

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

Nope, Saturday Night Live characters don’t make it.  Try Monty Python or Firesign Theatre references next time.

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group?   After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

About 2 seconds…well, if you mean understanding that, like life its ownself, there are quite a mix of people and personalities, and not all are going to act, write, think, or otherwise do what another might wish or expect…of course, if you mean understand completely each and every post and reply….BWAHAHAHAHA…. HTH, R …who would suggest a firm understanding of the existence of, and a passing familiarity with, Lewis Carroll, HST, Oscar Wilde, Dr. Seuss, satirical comedy, with a special nod to that of America, Canada, and the UK, as well as the works of Gierach, Hill, McManus, Jenkins, and too-long a list of fishing writers, whilst not forgetting Ken Kesey and Donald Segretti…no, it won’t allow for understanding, but it’d help…hey, who says a potatoe is a terrible thing to mind?  Wait a minute…that doesn’t sound quite right…oh, well…please always remember, and don’t ever forget, because I’ll only say this once: HOBGOBLINS!  GREAT, WRITHING, SEETHING HOBGOBLINS!…and they’ve gotten their drunken paws, such as they are, on the controls…

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

Should take about four to six hours.  Any more than that, you got a real problem.  How ya doin’ so far? Wolfgang

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. About 2 seconds…well, if you mean understanding that, like life its ownself, there are quite a mix of people and personalities, and not all are going to act, write, think, or otherwise do what another might wish or expect…of course, if you mean understand completely each and every post and reply….BWAHAHAHAHA…. HTH, R …who would suggest a firm understanding of the existence of, and a passing familiarity with, Lewis Carroll, HST, Oscar Wilde, Dr. Seuss, satirical comedy, with a special nod to that of America, Canada, and the UK, as well as the works of Gierach, Hill, McManus, Jenkins, and too-long a list of fishing writers, whilst not forgetting Ken Kesey and Donald Segretti…no, it won’t allow for understanding, but it’d help…hey, who says a potatoe is a terrible thing to mind?  Wait a minute…that doesn’t sound quite right…oh, well…please always remember, and don’t ever forget, because I’ll only say this once: HOBGOBLINS!  GREAT, WRITHING, SEETHING HOBGOBLINS!…and they’ve gotten their drunken paws, such as they are, on the controls…

Uhh . . .I was gunna come out of lurking . . . . crap . . . couldn’t get past the "potatoe".  . . . geesh! . . . back to the text books . . . I guess . . . or  . . . somethin’. DaveMohnsen Denver

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy.

That’s just it CaveXman.  Don’t try to figure out anything.  Everyone just leaves it to Darwin.  Now, figure that one out. George Gehrke "the gent with keyboard button cuff links"

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. That’s just it CaveXman.  Don’t try to figure out anything.  Everyone just leaves it to Darwin.  Now, figure that one out.

Darwin?  Isn’t he the guy inside the fish sign on cars? — remove all x and y’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

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Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary.

Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . .

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Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary. Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . .

…clapping you upside the head, as you get bitch-slapped by somebody who took umbrage at something you posted… Kevin

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Doh!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary. Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . . …clapping you upside the head, as you get bitch-slapped by somebody who took umbrage at something you posted… Kevin

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Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary. Grasshopper, you must understand the sound of one hand clapping . . . …clapping you upside the head, as you get bitch-slapped by somebody who took umbrage at something you posted…

Shut up you pompous, hypocritical sissy. p.s. Do I know you?

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I believe that the current minimum length of time required, is from the DEC flyfishing list days to present.  Anything shorter is will result in a less than complete understanding.  One large short cut that has been found to be effective in shortening this is, to killfile any and all posts by muskie and He Who Must Not Be Named (GG,Bamboorods  and his various incarnations).

Chris you were a DEC Flyfishing notes guy? Don’t remember you… Flyfish AKA Dave the ordealmaster

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Like most things in life, as soon as you understand it, it changes. Everything is temporary.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group? After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. About 2 seconds…well, if you mean understanding that, like life its ownself, there are quite a mix of people and personalities, and not all are going to act, write, think, or otherwise do what another might wish or expect…of course, if you mean understand completely each and every post and reply….BWAHAHAHAHA…. HTH, R …who would suggest a firm understanding of the existence of, and a passing familiarity with, Lewis Carroll, HST, Oscar Wilde, Dr. Seuss, satirical comedy, with a special nod to that of America, Canada, and the UK, as well as the works of Gierach, Hill, McManus, Jenkins, and too-long a list of fishing writers, whilst not forgetting Ken Kesey and Donald Segretti…no, it won’t allow for understanding, but it’d help…hey, who says a potatoe is a terrible thing to mind?  Wait a minute…that doesn’t sound quite right…oh, well…please always remember, and don’t ever forget, because I’ll only say this once: HOBGOBLINS!  GREAT, WRITHING, SEETHING HOBGOBLINS!…and they’ve gotten their drunken paws, such as they are, on the controls… Uhh . . .I was gunna come out of lurking . . . . crap . . . couldn’t get past the "potatoe".  . . . geesh! . . . back to the text books . . . I guess . . . or  . . . somethin’. DaveMohnsen Denver

Hey, a polite newcomer…see, you never know what’s gonna happen next…welcome aboard, and here’s an explanation…it’s really a really obscure reference to some stuff Dan Quayle said/did…remember the "potatoe" and "a waste is terrible thing to mind" stuff?   Well, it was my decidedly indirect way of implying that a fair amount of both substantive and trivial off-topic knowledge is helpful, if one wishes to engage in that aspect of ROFF, such as the political, er, discussions/riots.   As to the rest, it’s simply an-out-of-the-norm way of saying "hey, ROFF can be a strange place at times, and often as not, NOBODY understands everything," with some TV show catch phrases tossed in (see above).  Also remember (or learn) that ROFF, as a whole, almost never completely agrees on what’s funny, not funny, (in)appropriate, sick, SPAM, or much of anything else save two, or maybe even just one: we all seem to have a love of (fly) fishing (although what exactly defines "fly fishing" is often a source of disagreement, so maybe even that doesn’t even count), and on some level, like reading ROFF… TC, R

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I’m generally frightened and confused by ROFF and was wondering how long it takes to understand the personalities that frequent this group?   After all, I’m just a poor caveman software guy. — remove all x’s for reply email. To worry is folly so let us be jolly.

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Question:

and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it. Before you dismiss me as being completely loonie consider this example of T.A.& M.: Theory – "Big browns feed at night." Approach – The big, slow pools on river XXXX should be fished at dusk. Method – Take a 6 wt. and cast a deerhair mouse pattern across current allowing the slow movement of the water to drag the mouse slowly across the pool. Unless one is a complete rookie, we all go through some sort of thought process like this before heading out.  But what happens if we do this in too great a detail and try to fit the river to our plans instead of the other way around?  What happens if there’s a hex hatch starting but we are still banging away with our mouse? Before setting out for the Penns clave, I’d pretty well decided that I’d swing wets or streamers if no hatch was happening.  The first day in, I was completely skunked until I gave up on the idea and began dredging the green water with PTs.  On my last trip to the Whirlpool, I had decided on speys and streamers, again nothing until I started dredging the bottom with bunny leeches.  Armed with this experience, I took my bunny leeches to the Catt, dredged the deep runs and was skunked again.  Last Sunday, I went to the Credit even though I knew the river would be blown out, just to try the new rod.  When I got down to the big tree pool, I tied on a black & purple spider spey and a sinking Polyleader as it seemed the appropriate thing to do, then began casting and drifting, getting the feel of the big stick, fixing casting problems, and fiddling with the mending.  Without even trying, I was into a fish.  In PA, the Whirlpool and at the Catt, I was getting skunked while others hooked fish.  At the Credit, I was the only one in the vicinity to get into a fish.  The boot was on the other foot. Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Skunkings are primarily caused by being jinxed. To wit: Have you ever noticed that if you are catching fish hand over fist and then explain your success to another angler, the other angler will start catching fish and you will not catch another fish for at least 2 hours, probably the rest of the day? My fishing buddy, Rat, caught more fish on Good Friday than he had ever caught in his life. The rest of the summer, he was notably behind the curve. Even God is in on this. It is all superstition. Absolutely no science or method to it at all… — Citizen Fisherman I’m kinda spooked; I think I may have said too much already… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it. Before you dismiss me as being completely loonie consider this example of T.A.& M.: Theory – "Big browns feed at night." Approach – The big, slow pools on river XXXX should be fished at dusk. Method – Take a 6 wt. and cast a deerhair mouse pattern across current allowing the slow movement of the water to drag the mouse slowly across the pool. Unless one is a complete rookie, we all go through some sort of thought process like this before heading out.  But what happens if we do this in too great a detail and try to fit the river to our plans instead of the other way around?  What happens if there’s a hex hatch starting but we are still banging away with our mouse? Before setting out for the Penns clave, I’d pretty well decided that I’d swing wets or streamers if no hatch was happening.  The first day in, I was completely skunked until I gave up on the idea and began dredging the green water with PTs.  On my last trip to the Whirlpool, I had decided on speys and streamers, again nothing until I started dredging the bottom with bunny leeches.  Armed with this experience, I took my bunny leeches to the Catt, dredged the deep runs and was skunked again.  Last Sunday, I went to the Credit even though I knew the river would be blown out, just to try the new rod.  When I got down to the big tree pool, I tied on a black & purple spider spey and a sinking Polyleader as it seemed the appropriate thing to do, then began casting and drifting, getting the feel of the big stick, fixing casting problems, and fiddling with the mending.  Without even trying, I was into a fish.  In PA, the Whirlpool and at the Catt, I was getting skunked while others hooked fish.  At the Credit, I was the only one in the vicinity to get into a fish.  The boot was on the other foot. Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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George Adams writes: FWIW, I have have found the Jailbird to be most effective fished deep, as a dropper or under an indicator.

Shhhhhhhhh! Dave

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what color closed cell foam?

On the original (olive) pattern, I use white or yellow. On the modified (tan) pattern, I use yellow or orange. They seem to be most successful in sizes #18 -#22. I have done well with this pattern tied on scud type (curved) hooks and conventional wet fly hooks. There are a number of midge pups patterns, Serendipity for example, that incorporate a bouyant (deer hair or foam) collar so , at least in theory, the fly rides upright in the water. FWIW, I have have found the Jailbird to be most effective fished deep, as a dropper or under an indicator. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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 It also helps to keep an open mind, and not get too fixated on one particular aspect (unless, as a couple of people have pointed out, THAT is the goal) if you are _fishing_, rather than experimenting, testing, etc.

Interesting point. On a local freestone stream, most folks hit the pools in the fall with PT nymphs, or midge/bwo dry patterns.  I was down in a spot with a couple of small pools and pocket water.  In the small pools I  was noticing every once in a while a leaf would hit the water and bang! it would get hit.  I watched it a couple of times, figuring out that there was a terrestrial hanging on the falling leaf that was getting hit.  I didn’t find out *what*, though . In addition, there were a lot of yellow jackets around.  In talking with some folks who fished succesfully in that stretch, they were using bee patterns very successfully, even though it was past the traditional time for terrestrials. On the leaves, it could have been some left over ants or something hanging on…don’t know for sure.  But of course, I was geared up with 20 and 22 BWO’s and BHPT’s which were being ignored. Similar observations and results with another angler upstream a bit.  I didn’t have any terrestrial patterns with me, though, or I would have tried them. Rob

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what color closed cell foam? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George Adams writes: Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-) And maybe change the ribbing to orange.  I’ll give it a try (come June). Dave

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For me, it’s a matter of choosing a method at the house rather than when I arrived at the water, based either on past experience or just for the hell of it.  

Oh, well, yeah, you’re right then:  that’s just beggin’ for a skunkin’. When I would do that (for steelheading, it usually meant leaving one or another of the rods or lines at home, assuming I’d never, ever need it, not today), the invariable result was regret. Good luck on the Credit today.  BTW, how’s that thesis coming? JR

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree.  Being flexible is by far the best plan.  The trick to making it work, though, is to stick to it no matter what!  ;) Seriously, I wish life were that simple.  I’ve more than once been skunked in the morning, only to catch a mess in the afternoon, using the same technique.  Often the conditions change to coincide with whatever method we happen to be using.  Sometimes the "changed condition" can be simply moving down or up to a different piece of water.   Your post set me thinking back.  I don’t know that I’ve been skunked more often by sticking stubbornly to one method than by switching willy-nilly every twenty minutes from one fly and presentation to another.  The one thing to avoid, I think, is doing something–whatever it is–for no good reason, casting about blindly, as it were.  If I’ve decided on a method for good reason (weather, look of the water, behavior of the fish, past experience), I’ll generally stick with it until I’ve got an equally good reason to change.  Of course, human nature being what it is, a stretch of two or three fishless hours can in itself grow to seem a sufficient reason <g. Parenthetically, I find if the fishing is pleasant (balmy weather, pleasant scenery), I’m less tempted to change my plan than when it’s cold, grey, windy and raining. JR

For me, it’s a matter of choosing a method at the house rather than when I arrived at the water, based either on past experience or just for the hell of it.  The results are often not that good until I start paying attention to what the conditions are telling me.   I’ll be leaving for the Credit soon and this time I’ll be taking a good look at the water before I decide what to do. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less.

I agree.  Being flexible is by far the best plan.  The trick to making it work, though, is to stick to it no matter what!  ;) Seriously, I wish life were that simple.  I’ve more than once been skunked in the morning, only to catch a mess in the afternoon, using the same technique.  Often the conditions change to coincide with whatever method we happen to be using.  Sometimes the "changed condition" can be simply moving down or up to a different piece of water.   Your post set me thinking back.  I don’t know that I’ve been skunked more often by sticking stubbornly to one method than by switching willy-nilly every twenty minutes from one fly and presentation to another.  The one thing to avoid, I think, is doing something–whatever it is–for no good reason, casting about blindly, as it were.  If I’ve decided on a method for good reason (weather, look of the water, behavior of the fish, past experience), I’ll generally stick with it until I’ve got an equally good reason to change.  Of course, human nature being what it is, a stretch of two or three fishless hours can in itself grow to seem a sufficient reason <g. Parenthetically, I find if the fishing is pleasant (balmy weather, pleasant scenery), I’m less tempted to change my plan than when it’s cold, grey, windy and raining. JR

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Example:  A couple of years ago I came across a pattern at an Orvis store. It’s called the "jail bird".  A very easy tie – size 20 hook, some closed cell foam at the thorax, olive dubbing with a red thread ribbing.

Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-) George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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George Adams writes: Dave, Try the same pattern with tan dubbing, and either orange or yellow foam. {:-)

And maybe change the ribbing to orange.  I’ll give it a try (come June). Dave

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Skunkings are primarily caused by being jinxed. To wit: Have you ever noticed that if you are catching fish hand over fist and then explain your success to another angler, the other angler will start catching fish and you will not catch another fish for at least 2 hours, probably the rest of the day?

No, I’ve never noticed that. — Check out the ROFF Calendar at: http://www.ruralnetwork.net/%7Etroutbum/calendar/calendar.html

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willi, I agree with you–it is fun just to try new methods and tools.  I never catch many fish but enjoy spending a little time reading then going out ant trying a new technique. still no success with streamers or upstream casting of nymphs- but then perhaps the fish had not read the same article. Had great fun in Oct. when Big Dale and I shared cabin on small N.C. stream.[ see below I hit wrong button] first time I got a chance to fish same stream for four days with similar weather conditions. Tried dries, nymphs and streamers  for a day each   all with  minor success.  The fourth morning I walked down to the creek, cast three times and caught three fish–then not another in two hours. Some days are more fun than others.      Indian Joe    Wilmington N.C. some days are more fun than others.

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and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) We all go fishing operating on theory, approach, and method, but I’m starting to form the opinion that one can get too hung up on it.

It always helps to do some basic planning, and research/ reconnaissance, before hitting the water, just to know what’s there, so you can make an educated guess as to what’s possible, what’s likely, and what else _might_work if your originally-intended method seems to be "off."  It also helps to keep an open mind, and not get too fixated on one particular aspect (unless, as a couple of people have pointed out, THAT is the goal) if you are _fishing_, rather than experimenting, testing, etc. This is one reason why (a disappointingly decreasing percentage, I’d offer) some anglers take a few basic tying supplies with them (certainly on overnight or longer trips), even on all-day trips.  You don’t need a lot of stuff – a water-tight "flip-top" eyeglass or cigarette box will hold a sufficiency – but of course, some at-home freehand tying practice is important unless you want to lug a vise (I don’t, but a "multi-purpose" tool and stout rubber band will do in a pinch, as will a pin vise).  It also helps to be ready to use whatever is at hand as a material.  In fact, some notable "modification" patterns are reported to have originated with less-than-orthodox materials adapted "spur of the moment."  If you do use any less-than-orthodox material, depending on source, or even traditional material long-stored in fishing clothing, I’d advise attempting to remove as much "human scent" as possible – for example, if you use some pocket lint for dubbing, rub it in some natural material, dirt/mud (if it’s not on the reddish side), loam, etc. and rinse in the fishing water.  I can’t say for sure as to whether the fish can tell, but I do think that it’s better safe than sorry.

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Peter Charles wrote…. and why over-planning can lead to a skunking.

Not over planning just stubborness.   You want to do it the way you want and you forget why you’re there. Your way or no way.  A little flexibility and your accumulated knowledge and your back to catching fish. There’s no explaining a skunking. There’s no reason or logic when others are catching and you’re not. Unless you’re totally inept.  It’s just chance. Fate. What brings you back next time. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

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I’m getting into this discussion a little late…  In waters that I know, it is always fun to experiment with something new.  During the off-season (now), I will tie new patterns that I *know* will work.  Call it intuition.  Most times they *do*  work.   Example:  A couple of years ago I came across a pattern at an Orvis store. It’s called the "jail bird".  A very easy tie – size 20 hook, some closed cell foam at the thorax, olive dubbing with a red thread ribbing.  I *knew* it would work at a certain spot on a certain river.  My first short cast with it brought up a beautiful brookie. Another example, Peter, is those Clousers you tied in September.  When I saw them I knew they would work – and they did.  <g I’ve never been skunked on that river – came close a few times, however. That is when I stop my "normal" attack and use something different, something that I *know* they will like.  We’ve heard it said that trout are like women:  find out what they want and give it to them.  The finding out part can be very difficult, especially on waters unfamiliar to you.   Dave

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Peter,   You make, as ever, good points. I think another couple are:1)knowledge of the river you are fishing often prevents bad theory in the first place and 2) on hard-fished rivers, something different often works.   To feebly illustrate: Using your Penn’s example, I could have shown you places in the early morning to hammer them with streamers, even in the lower waters. Also, large wets were working pretty well in the off peak times over the right water. I had a bit more local knowledge(and you and David rendered yourselves out of reach of where I was fishing most days,lest any readers think I was witholding advice).

Well, that was my first thought. You’re right about fishing waters you know well. Knowing them well and the comfort that gives, is one of their pleasures. On my home river, there are a number of small areas I know that fish use as feeding stations that are almost always ignored by other anglers. They are in nondiscript water that I found from watching the fish during low water conditions or dimpling during a hatch. On the other hand, new waters are exciting; from figuring out where and how to fish, to just being in a new beautiful place. Willi

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Peter,   You make, as ever, good points. I think another couple are:1)knowledge of the river you are fishing often prevents bad theory in the first place and 2) on hard-fished rivers, something different often works.   To feebly illustrate: Using your Penn’s example, I could have shown you places in the early morning to hammer them with streamers, even in the lower waters. Also, large wets were working pretty well in the off peak times over the right water. I had a bit more local knowledge(and you and David rendered yourselves out of reach of where I was fishing most days,lest any readers think I was witholding advice).   For the other point, I once fished the Tulpehocken during a decent caddis emergence. I, and several others patiently tried adults, pupa and the like, to little effect. Some fella rolls through with a chartreuse Glo-bug and has browns of 18 inches or so chasing the thing. He landed 4 from the pool I was fishing and moved on…                                Tom L

Response:

I agree that persisting with a pre-planned method is often going to result in few or no fish especially if the conditions don’t warrant the method you’ve chosen. However, there are times, especially on my home river that I decide I’m going to catch fish on my terms or I won’t catch any. Sometimes I just want to fish a particular technique, catching lots of fish isn’t always the goal. Sometimes it’s fun to try and "will" a fish to take something that "shouldn’t" work. Willi

I agree – you know X will catch fish so you try Y just for shits & giggles.  Done it many times.  That’s for waters you know well, however my sins extend to waters that I know squat about.  It’s just a matter of not bringing too many preconceived notions to the water. You can’t hear what the water is telling you over the cacophony of your plans. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and why over-planning can lead to a skunking. We all get skunked sometimes but the skunkings that really bug me are the ones where others around me are catching fish and I’m getting diddly.  I don’t enjoy the feeling of incompetence.  The penny has finally dropped as to why (and no, the incompetence isn’t it.) Duh!  Bingo!  Go with the flow instead or persisting with a pre-planned method.  It seems so blindingly obvious when I write it, but it’s so subtle to detect in real life.  We have to do some planning else we’d show up at the river with no rod but being too focused before leaving the house can saddle one with a goose egg. Perhaps I’m the only angler on the planet to do this, but I’m willing to bet I’m not.  From this point on, there will be at least one less.

I agree that persisting with a pre-planned method is often going to result in few or no fish especially if the conditions don’t warrant the method you’ve chosen. However, there are times, especially on my home river that I decide I’m going to catch fish on my terms or I won’t catch any. Sometimes I just want to fish a particular technique, catching lots of fish isn’t always the goal. Sometimes it’s fun to try and "will" a fish to take something that "shouldn’t" work. Willi

Response:

Question:

(AJH)

Walked to the top of the mount and shouted for all to hear: Tony G. the troll is back, ignore him he may go away.

Maybe I’m just warped, but that was some of the funniest stuff I’ve read in a long time.  Too much of it would get boring, but it sure broke me up.

Response:

Keep yer poly-ticks off the lake and outta this ng.  Well, maybe not off the lake, but definitely out of this news group.

Response:

Tony G. the troll is back, ignore him he may go away.

Response:

Please don’t vote at all Tony, your just to stupid to help any one out so just sit at your pacifier I mean keyboard and stay away from the polls this year, stay away from the model glue too while your at it. PS Felons can’t vote any way keep that in mind Walter

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Vote for Nader! The man is real. I aint posted nuthin in  a long time cause I been too busy an I was spendin too much time at the computar there.  Plus the little lady didnt say nuthin but I could tell she was gettin pissed cause I wasnt payin enuff attentsion to her.  Usally anyways when I do talk on the computar I talk about fishin an huntin an stuff that pisses me off about them two things there.  An I aint just a reguler guy that says stuff but Im a meower an I got the 3133t from that Meidcal guy a while back there to prove it. But back to what Im talkin about.  We got an importent electsion comin up in a coupel months an I figger it aint too soon to start thinkin about it an who to vote for.  I usally only post to them five groups but I did some lookin for groups that could help maybe more with the electsion then them other five groups there.  I couldnt find no group on gore so I went with a Clinten group cause them two guacamoles are pretty tight an all. My old man was a democrat for as long as I could remember.  He was a regular workin stiff an after he got back from the ww2 there he worked at the Kodak place in rochester puttin together cameras for 25 years till he retired. He always said Tony the regular workin guys like me vote democrat cause the democrats take good care of the guys that work hard for a livin an dont let the companys give em a royal screwin or nothin. He always said the republicins didnt give a rats ass about nobody unless they was a banker or lawyer or a member of the country club.   So since I wasnt one of them rich jamokes but a guy who works hard for a livin an I figgered my old man was pretty smart Id always just vote for democrats an the hole electsion thing would be a peice of cake.  So thats how I been votin for a long time for democrats. But heres the problem.  It dont seem like them democrats take care of the workin guy like me no more like when dad was alive they take care of guys that dont do nothin for a livin an bowery bums an guys that sit on there keisters instead of workin an other stuff like that.  Its gettin so Im payin more an more taxes on my money an house an on the autobody shop I own. If it aint taxes its fees for disposin of old paint an all kinds of other liesenses I gotta have to stay open.  It seems like every year a little less a Tony Gs money is still Tony Gs an ol Uncle Sam keeps reachin a little deeper inta Tony Gs pockets like there aint no tomorrow. An then the guys in the shop that work for me was tellin me some stuff about Gore there.   They was laughin at him cause they told me Gore hired some woman to try an teach him how to be more manly.  I guess this woman was like a psichiatrist or somethin an she told him to stop bein a wimp an start bein an alfa man.  I dont know what alfa is but Jimmy in the shop told me it was like the top dog in the pack or somethin.  I didnt beleive what them guys in the shop was sayin but then they showed me in the paper an it was true. Now I dunno what kind of man needs a chippie to show em how to be a man. Nuthin against my mom but it wasnt mom that showed me how to be a man it was my pop that showed Tony G how to fight an how to level some punk when he trys to get cute. You know all the man stuff.  An my dad didnt have to show me all that much neither.  Puttin the bang shang a lang on bums an punks comes real natural to Tony G.  I didnt need a whole lotta teachin if you know what I mean.  Tony G knows that hes the top dog around these parts. So thats my first probelem with votin for Gore I dont know how he can lead our Boys there inta war if hes wimpy an scared.  An maybe all them forein bums will be able to push em around an get what they want outta america cause they read about the frail teachin him to be a man an they know hes a creampuff.  Already the canadiens an them orientals there is tryin to take all the drinkin water we got here in from lake Ontario there an nobodys doin nuthin about it. Then the other problem I got with Gore is all these taxes I been payin. I dont got no probelm with the guns.  I gotta lot of guns but I dont figure them democrats gonna be takin em.  The way I figger it its just a lot of talk to get votes. Look at the repulicans they always talkin about cuttin my taxes an they never do.  I figger the same for them democrats an the guns. Them guys that work for me in the shop is worried the democrats is gonna take their deer and turkey guns an they tell me not to vote for em cause of that.  I told em you gotta look at the big pictuer an alla the issues an make an edjucated vote in November. Anyways so I got some problems with teh democrats.   So you figure Id vote republicin but I gotta lot a problems with them.  I already said what my pop told me about them republicins an how they bums an crooks.  He was always talkin about Nickson an what a bum an a crook he was an tellin his republicin buddies See I told you them guys is crooks!!!!  Plus he was tellin me most of them republicins is Masons.  I dont know much of nothin about Masons but my dad said there a real bad thing an theres a lot of republicins in there an stay away from the Masons an if you want to join somethin Tony join the Moose or Elk lodge there. The only republicin I know much about is Patakey our govennore of NYS. An I dont like him much.  He said he was gonna cut this and cut that an that was 6 years ago.  He aint cut jack squat yet.  If anythin my NY taxes is higher then ever.  The only thing Patakey seems to cut is the money that goes to make the fishin and huntin better an instead teh fishin gets worse every year an it gets so it sucks more an more an he aint just talkin about takin guns hes got laws that are tryin to take my guns but thats not what I wanna talk about now.  To some up Patakey is just annother bum if you ask Tony G. An I dont know much about Bush but hes the president Bushs son there an that seems kinda weird to have a father an son both runnin the white house. I dont know how old Bush is but for all I know he wass playin Spase Invadars in the White house there while his old man was runnin the place an now hes gonna end up runnin the place??  Thats kind of wacko if you ask Tony G. So anyways who should I vote for this fall or should I vote for nobody instead?  If you ask me I dont like neither of them two jamokes but I gotta do somethin. — MEOW!!!!!!! Tony G.   3133t from Medcal Catastrophy an intated by Crisis —                                                                      |                                                                      |     3 1 3 3 t                                                        |                               “-, ______,,–,,__                    |              ,-’““’ ‘ ‘                   _/     ‘.    [%%|     ‘|’ `,      ,-’“’ ‘                        _- _-/ ===   (%%)    J L/  “`,__/`’ ‘   _                        _-     ===_,,–`-_/     |“/   |                        /J     |`/     |/ Heres some old stuff  to the Coleman board there you guys never seen This is some bum tryin to get me thrown off a that Coleman board there. .   Question Posted by The People on 04/05/98 Sign the petition!!! This is to petition to get Tony G. banned permenently from fly fishing (and anything to do with any kind of fishing). Idiots that have nothing better to say about fishing then how they beat up innocent fishermen SHOULD NOT FISH!!! please sign your name and help Tony G. get the picture that he is not welcome on OUR streams!!! thanks Heres me bitchin cause Bryan took all my stuff off a the board.   .Question Posted by tony g on 03/16/98 buncha censors runnin this board my pop took it to them japs at anzio to try and stop crap like this he must be rollin over in his grave tony g An heres another scaramouche sayin Hey Bryan thats great keep up the censerin Mine Fureher. I am with Brian on this one, especially since he can spell. Keep up the great work and block out Tony G for all our sakes!!! ps. why can’t I catch fish ever??? where can i get maps for fishing??? Answer posted by Brown Trout on 03/16/98 This is the head jamoke Bryan sayin that he thinks censerin an Nazi stuff is good: Tony, I got into this sport to relax. This bulletinboard would like to maintain a certain level of etiquette. Swearing, racism and malicious behavior will not be tolerated. Offenders to these guidelines will be locked out of this bulletinboard. I also

… read more »

Response:

I aint posted nuthin in  a long time cause I been too busy an I was spendin too much time at the computar there.  Plus the little lady didnt say nuthin but I could tell she was gettin pissed cause I wasnt payin enuff attentsion to her.  Usally anyways when I do talk on the computar I talk about fishin an huntin an stuff that pisses me off about them two things there.  An I aint just a reguler guy that says stuff but Im a meower an I got the 3133t from that Meidcal guy a while back there to prove it. But back to what Im talkin about.  We got an importent electsion comin up in a coupel months an I figger it aint too soon to start thinkin about it an who to vote for.  I usally only post to them five groups but I did some lookin for groups that could help maybe more with the electsion then them other five groups there.  I couldnt find no group on gore so I went with a Clinten group cause them two guacamoles are pretty tight an all. My old man was a democrat for as long as I could remember.  He was a regular workin stiff an after he got back from the ww2 there he worked at the Kodak place in rochester puttin together cameras for 25 years till he retired.  He always said Tony the regular workin guys like me vote democrat cause the democrats take good care of the guys that work hard for a livin an dont let the companys give em a royal screwin or nothin. He always said the republicins didnt give a rats ass about nobody unless they was a banker or lawyer or a member of the country club.   So since I wasnt one of them rich jamokes but a guy who works hard for a livin an I figgered my old man was pretty smart Id always just vote for democrats an the hole electsion thing would be a peice of cake.  So thats how I been votin for a long time for democrats. But heres the problem.  It dont seem like them democrats take care of the workin guy like me no more like when dad was alive they take care of guys that dont do nothin for a livin an bowery bums an guys that sit on there keisters instead of workin an other stuff like that.  Its gettin so Im payin more an more taxes on my money an house an on the autobody shop I own. If it aint taxes its fees for disposin of old paint an all kinds of other liesenses I gotta have to stay open.  It seems like every year a little less a Tony Gs money is still Tony Gs an ol Uncle Sam keeps reachin a little deeper inta Tony Gs pockets like there aint no tomorrow. An then the guys in the shop that work for me was tellin me some stuff about Gore there.   They was laughin at him cause they told me Gore hired some woman to try an teach him how to be more manly.  I guess this woman was like a psichiatrist or somethin an she told him to stop bein a wimp an start bein an alfa man.  I dont know what alfa is but Jimmy in the shop told me it was like the top dog in the pack or somethin.  I didnt beleive what them guys in the shop was sayin but then they showed me in the paper an it was true. Now I dunno what kind of man needs a chippie to show em how to be a man. Nuthin against my mom but it wasnt mom that showed me how to be a man it was my pop that showed Tony G how to fight an how to level some punk when he trys to get cute. You know all the man stuff.  An my dad didnt have to show me all that much neither.  Puttin the bang shang a lang on bums an punks comes real natural to Tony G.  I didnt need a whole lotta teachin if you know what I mean.  Tony G knows that hes the top dog around these parts. So thats my first probelem with votin for Gore I dont know how he can lead our Boys there inta war if hes wimpy an scared.  An maybe all them forein bums will be able to push em around an get what they want outta america cause they read about the frail teachin him to be a man an they know hes a creampuff.  Already the canadiens an them orientals there is tryin to take all the drinkin water we got here in from lake Ontario there an nobodys doin nuthin about it. Then the other problem I got with Gore is all these taxes I been payin.  I dont got no probelm with the guns.  I gotta lot of guns but I dont figure them democrats gonna be takin em.  The way I figger it its just a lot of talk to get votes. Look at the repulicans they always talkin about cuttin my taxes an they never do.  I figger the same for them democrats an the guns. Them guys that work for me in the shop is worried the democrats is gonna take their deer and turkey guns an they tell me not to vote for em cause of that.  I told em you gotta look at the big pictuer an alla the issues an make an edjucated vote in November. Anyways so I got some problems with teh democrats.   So you figure Id vote republicin but I gotta lot a problems with them.  I already said what my pop told me about them republicins an how they bums an crooks.  He was always talkin about Nickson an what a bum an a crook he was an tellin his republicin buddies See I told you them guys is crooks!!!!  Plus he was tellin me most of them republicins is Masons.  I dont know much of nothin about Masons but my dad said there a real bad thing an theres a lot of republicins in there an stay away from the Masons an if you want to join somethin Tony join the Moose or Elk lodge there. The only republicin I know much about is Patakey our govennore of NYS.  An I dont like him much.  He said he was gonna cut this and cut that an that was 6 years ago.  He aint cut jack squat yet.  If anythin my NY taxes is higher then ever.  The only thing Patakey seems to cut is the money that goes to make the fishin and huntin better an instead teh fishin gets worse every year an it gets so it sucks more an more an he aint just talkin about takin guns hes got laws that are tryin to take my guns but thats not what I wanna talk about now.  To some up Patakey is just annother bum if you ask Tony G. An I dont know much about Bush but hes the president Bushs son there an that seems kinda weird to have a father an son both runnin the white house.  I dont know how old Bush is but for all I know he wass playin Spase Invadars in the White house there while his old man was runnin the place an now hes gonna end up runnin the place??  Thats kind of wacko if you ask Tony G. So anyways who should I vote for this fall or should I vote for nobody instead?  If you ask me I dont like neither of them two jamokes but I gotta do somethin. — MEOW!!!!!!! Tony G.   3133t from Medcal Catastrophy an intated by Crisis —                                                                      |                                                                      |     3 1 3 3 t                                                        |                               “-, ______,,–,,__                    |              ,-’““’ ‘ ‘                   _/     ‘.    [%%|     ‘|’ `,      ,-’“’ ‘                        _- _-/ ===   (%%)    J L/  “`,__/`’ ‘   _                        _-     ===_,,–`-_/     |“/   |                        /J     |`/     |/ Heres some old stuff  to the Coleman board there you guys never seen This is some bum tryin to get me thrown off a that Coleman board there. .   Question Posted by The People on 04/05/98 Sign the petition!!! This is to petition to get Tony G. banned permenently from fly fishing (and anything to do with any kind of fishing). Idiots that have nothing better to say about fishing then how they beat up innocent fishermen SHOULD NOT FISH!!! please sign your name and help Tony G. get the picture that he is not welcome on OUR streams!!! thanks Heres me bitchin cause Bryan took all my stuff off a the board.   .Question Posted by tony g on 03/16/98 buncha censors runnin this board my pop took it to them japs at anzio to try and stop crap like this he must be rollin over in his grave tony g An heres another scaramouche sayin Hey Bryan thats great keep up the censerin Mine Fureher. I am with Brian on this one, especially since he can spell. Keep up the great work and block out Tony G for all our sakes!!! ps. why can’t I catch fish ever??? where can i get maps for fishing??? Answer posted by Brown Trout on 03/16/98 This is the head jamoke Bryan sayin that he thinks censerin an Nazi stuff is good: Tony, I got into this sport to relax. This bulletinboard would like to maintain a certain level of etiquette. Swearing, racism and malicious behavior will not be tolerated. Offenders to these guidelines will be locked out of this bulletinboard. I also appreciate the fifth admendment, but please try to keep it clean. Thanks, Brian (Webmaster for Carl Coleman) Answer posted by Brian on 03/16/98 An finally this is me when them punks and bum push my buttons wrong: Question Posted by Tony G. on 04/14/98 THEN ANOTHER TIME IM FISHIN THE DEEP WATER DOWN FROM THE PUBLIC ACCESS SOME MORON TEENAGER COMES ROARIN AT ME WITH A LITTLE ROWBOAT AN AN OUTBORED I WAVED EM OFF HE KEPT COMIN I WAS SO MAD I THOUGHT I COULD WALK ACROSS THE WATER TO THAT DIRTY SO ANSO I TOLD HIM YOU KEEP THAT DIRTY SONOFAWHORE OUTTA MY FACE OR YOURE GONNA BE IN THE DRINK SO FAST YOUR HEADL BE SPINNIN YOU DIRTY LITTLE PUNK AND ILL SEND YOURE LITTLE WATERSCOOTER THERE DOWN TO THE LAKE WITHOUT … read more »

Response:

    Vote for Nader! The man is real. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I aint posted nuthin in  a long time cause I been too busy an I was spendin too much time at the computar there.  Plus the little lady didnt say nuthin but I could tell she was gettin pissed cause I wasnt payin enuff attentsion to her.  Usally anyways when I do talk on the computar I talk about fishin an huntin an stuff that pisses me off about them two things there.  An I aint just a reguler guy that says stuff but Im a meower an I got the 3133t from that Meidcal guy a while back there to prove it. But back to what Im talkin about.  We got an importent electsion comin up in a coupel months an I figger it aint too soon to start thinkin about it an who to vote for.  I usally only post to them five groups but I did some lookin for groups that could help maybe more with the electsion then them other five groups there.  I couldnt find no group on gore so I went with a Clinten group cause them two guacamoles are pretty tight an all. My old man was a democrat for as long as I could remember.  He was a regular workin stiff an after he got back from the ww2 there he worked at the Kodak place in rochester puttin together cameras for 25 years till he retired.  He always said Tony the regular workin guys like me vote democrat cause the democrats take good care of the guys that work hard for a livin an dont let the companys give em a royal screwin or nothin. He always said the republicins didnt give a rats ass about nobody unless they was a banker or lawyer or a member of the country club.   So since I wasnt one of them rich jamokes but a guy who works hard for a livin an I figgered my old man was pretty smart Id always just vote for democrats an the hole electsion thing would be a peice of cake.  So thats how I been votin for a long time for democrats. But heres the problem.  It dont seem like them democrats take care of the workin guy like me no more like when dad was alive they take care of guys that dont do nothin for a livin an bowery bums an guys that sit on there keisters instead of workin an other stuff like that.  Its gettin so Im payin more an more taxes on my money an house an on the autobody shop I own. If it aint taxes its fees for disposin of old paint an all kinds of other liesenses I gotta have to stay open.  It seems like every year a little less a Tony Gs money is still Tony Gs an ol Uncle Sam keeps reachin a little deeper inta Tony Gs pockets like there aint no tomorrow. An then the guys in the shop that work for me was tellin me some stuff about Gore there.   They was laughin at him cause they told me Gore hired some woman to try an teach him how to be more manly.  I guess this woman was like a psichiatrist or somethin an she told him to stop bein a wimp an start bein an alfa man.  I dont know what alfa is but Jimmy in the shop told me it was like the top dog in the pack or somethin.  I didnt beleive what them guys in the shop was sayin but then they showed me in the paper an it was true. Now I dunno what kind of man needs a chippie to show em how to be a man. Nuthin against my mom but it wasnt mom that showed me how to be a man it was my pop that showed Tony G how to fight an how to level some punk when he trys to get cute. You know all the man stuff.  An my dad didnt have to show me all that much neither.  Puttin the bang shang a lang on bums an punks comes real natural to Tony G.  I didnt need a whole lotta teachin if you know what I mean.  Tony G knows that hes the top dog around these parts. So thats my first probelem with votin for Gore I dont know how he can lead our Boys there inta war if hes wimpy an scared.  An maybe all them forein bums will be able to push em around an get what they want outta america cause they read about the frail teachin him to be a man an they know hes a creampuff.  Already the canadiens an them orientals there is tryin to take all the drinkin water we got here in from lake Ontario there an nobodys doin nuthin about it. Then the other problem I got with Gore is all these taxes I been payin.  I dont got no probelm with the guns.  I gotta lot of guns but I dont figure them democrats gonna be takin em.  The way I figger it its just a lot of talk to get votes. Look at the repulicans they always talkin about cuttin my taxes an they never do.  I figger the same for them democrats an the guns. Them guys that work for me in the shop is worried the democrats is gonna take their deer and turkey guns an they tell me not to vote for em cause of that.  I told em you gotta look at the big pictuer an alla the issues an make an edjucated vote in November. Anyways so I got some problems with teh democrats.   So you figure Id vote republicin but I gotta lot a problems with them.  I already said what my pop told me about them republicins an how they bums an crooks.  He was always talkin about Nickson an what a bum an a crook he was an tellin his republicin buddies See I told you them guys is crooks!!!!  Plus he was tellin me most of them republicins is Masons.  I dont know much of nothin about Masons but my dad said there a real bad thing an theres a lot of republicins in there an stay away from the Masons an if you want to join somethin Tony join the Moose or Elk lodge there. The only republicin I know much about is Patakey our govennore of NYS.  An I dont like him much.  He said he was gonna cut this and cut that an that was 6 years ago.  He aint cut jack squat yet.  If anythin my NY taxes is higher then ever.  The only thing Patakey seems to cut is the money that goes to make the fishin and huntin better an instead teh fishin gets worse every year an it gets so it sucks more an more an he aint just talkin about takin guns hes got laws that are tryin to take my guns but thats not what I wanna talk about now.  To some up Patakey is just annother bum if you ask Tony G. An I dont know much about Bush but hes the president Bushs son there an that seems kinda weird to have a father an son both runnin the white house.  I dont know how old Bush is but for all I know he wass playin Spase Invadars in the White house there while his old man was runnin the place an now hes gonna end up runnin the place??  Thats kind of wacko if you ask Tony G. So anyways who should I vote for this fall or should I vote for nobody instead?  If you ask me I dont like neither of them two jamokes but I gotta do somethin. — MEOW!!!!!!! Tony G.   3133t from Medcal Catastrophy an intated by Crisis —                                                                      |                                                                      |     3 1 3 3 t                                                        |                               “-, ______,,–,,__                    |              ,-’““’ ‘ ‘                   _/     ‘.    [%%|     ‘|’ `,      ,-’“’ ‘                        _- _-/ ===   (%%)    J L/  “`,__/`’ ‘   _                        _-     ===_,,–`-_/     |“/   |                        /J     |`/     |/ Heres some old stuff  to the Coleman board there you guys never seen This is some bum tryin to get me thrown off a that Coleman board there. .   Question Posted by The People on 04/05/98 Sign the petition!!! This is to petition to get Tony G. banned permenently from fly fishing (and anything to do with any kind of fishing). Idiots that have nothing better to say about fishing then how they beat up innocent fishermen SHOULD NOT FISH!!! please sign your name and help Tony G. get the picture that he is not welcome on OUR streams!!! thanks Heres me bitchin cause Bryan took all my stuff off a the board.   .Question Posted by tony g on 03/16/98 buncha censors runnin this board my pop took it to them japs at anzio to try and stop crap like this he must be rollin over in his grave tony g An heres another scaramouche sayin Hey Bryan thats great keep up the censerin Mine Fureher. I am with Brian on this one, especially since he can spell. Keep up the great work and block out Tony G for all our sakes!!! ps. why can’t I catch fish ever??? where can i get maps for fishing??? Answer posted by Brown Trout on 03/16/98 This is the head jamoke Bryan sayin that he thinks censerin an Nazi stuff is good: Tony, I got into this sport to relax. This bulletinboard would like to maintain a certain level of etiquette. Swearing, racism and malicious behavior will not be tolerated. Offenders to these guidelines will be locked out of this bulletinboard. I also appreciate the fifth admendment, but please try to keep it clean. Thanks, Brian (Webmaster for Carl Coleman) Answer posted by Brian on 03/16/98 An finally this is me when them punks and bum push my buttons wrong: Question Posted by Tony G. on 04/14/98 THEN ANOTHER TIME IM FISHIN THE DEEP WATER DOWN FROM THE PUBLIC ACCESS SOME MORON

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Response:

So tell me…. What does this have to do with ROFB? Rob.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I aint posted nuthin in  a long time cause I been too busy an I was spendin too much time at the computar there.  Plus the little lady didnt say nuthin but I could tell she was gettin pissed cause I wasnt payin enuff attentsion to her.  Usally anyways when I do talk on the computar I talk about fishin an huntin an stuff that pisses me off about them two things there.  An I aint just a reguler guy that says stuff but Im a meower an I got the 3133t from that Meidcal guy a while back there to prove it. But back to what Im talkin about.  We got an importent electsion comin up in a coupel months an I figger it aint too soon to start thinkin about it an who to vote for.  I usally only post to them five groups but I did some lookin for groups that could help maybe more with the electsion then them other five groups there.  I couldnt find no group on gore so I went with a Clinten group cause them two guacamoles are pretty tight an all. My old man was a democrat for as long as I could remember.  He was a regular workin stiff an after he got back from the ww2 there he worked at the Kodak place in rochester puttin together cameras for 25 years till he retired. He always said Tony the regular workin guys like me vote democrat cause the democrats take good care of the guys that work hard for a livin an dont let the companys give em a royal screwin or nothin. He always said the republicins didnt give a rats ass about nobody unless they was a banker or lawyer or a member of the country club.   So since I wasnt one of them rich jamokes but a guy who works hard for a livin an I figgered my old man was pretty smart Id always just vote for democrats an the hole electsion thing would be a peice of cake.  So thats how I been votin for a long time for democrats. But heres the problem.  It dont seem like them democrats take care of the workin guy like me no more like when dad was alive they take care of guys that dont do nothin for a livin an bowery bums an guys that sit on there keisters instead of workin an other stuff like that.  Its gettin so Im payin more an more taxes on my money an house an on the autobody shop I own. If it aint taxes its fees for disposin of old paint an all kinds of other liesenses I gotta have to stay open.  It seems like every year a little less a Tony Gs money is still Tony Gs an ol Uncle Sam keeps reachin a little deeper inta Tony Gs pockets like there aint no tomorrow. An then the guys in the shop that work for me was tellin me some stuff about Gore there.   They was laughin at him cause they told me Gore hired some woman to try an teach him how to be more manly.  I guess this woman was like a psichiatrist or somethin an she told him to stop bein a wimp an start bein an alfa man.  I dont know what alfa is but Jimmy in the shop told me it was like the top dog in the pack or somethin.  I didnt beleive what them guys in the shop was sayin but then they showed me in the paper an it was true. Now I dunno what kind of man needs a chippie to show em how to be a man. Nuthin against my mom but it wasnt mom that showed me how to be a man it was my pop that showed Tony G how to fight an how to level some punk when he trys to get cute. You know all the man stuff.  An my dad didnt have to show me all that much neither.  Puttin the bang shang a lang on bums an punks comes real natural to Tony G.  I didnt need a whole lotta teachin if you know what I mean.  Tony G knows that hes the top dog around these parts. So thats my first probelem with votin for Gore I dont know how he can lead our Boys there inta war if hes wimpy an scared.  An maybe all them forein bums will be able to push em around an get what they want outta america cause they read about the frail teachin him to be a man an they know hes a creampuff.  Already the canadiens an them orientals there is tryin to take all the drinkin water we got here in from lake Ontario there an nobodys doin nuthin about it. Then the other problem I got with Gore is all these taxes I been payin.  I dont got no probelm with the guns.  I gotta lot of guns but I dont figure them democrats gonna be takin em.  The way I figger it its just a lot of talk to get votes. Look at the repulicans they always talkin about cuttin my taxes an they never do.  I figger the same for them democrats an the guns. Them guys that work for me in the shop is worried the democrats is gonna take their deer and turkey guns an they tell me not to vote for em cause of that.  I told em you gotta look at the big pictuer an alla the issues an make an edjucated vote in November. Anyways so I got some problems with teh democrats.   So you figure Id vote republicin but I gotta lot a problems with them.  I already said what my pop told me about them republicins an how they bums an crooks.  He was always talkin about Nickson an what a bum an a crook he was an tellin his republicin buddies See I told you them guys is crooks!!!!  Plus he was tellin me most of them republicins is Masons.  I dont know much of nothin about Masons but my dad said there a real bad thing an theres a lot of republicins in there an stay away from the Masons an if you want to join somethin Tony join the Moose or Elk lodge there. The only republicin I know much about is Patakey our govennore of NYS.  An I dont like him much.  He said he was gonna cut this and cut that an that was 6 years ago.  He aint cut jack squat yet.  If anythin my NY taxes is higher then ever.  The only thing Patakey seems to cut is the money that goes to make the fishin and huntin better an instead teh fishin gets worse every year an it gets so it sucks more an more an he aint just talkin about takin guns hes got laws that are tryin to take my guns but thats not what I wanna talk about now.  To some up Patakey is just annother bum if you ask Tony G. An I dont know much about Bush but hes the president Bushs son there an that seems kinda weird to have a father an son both runnin the white house.  I dont know how old Bush is but for all I know he wass playin Spase Invadars in the White house there while his old man was runnin the place an now hes gonna end up runnin the place??  Thats kind of wacko if you ask Tony G. So anyways who should I vote for this fall or should I vote for nobody instead?  If you ask me I dont like neither of them two jamokes but I gotta do somethin. — MEOW!!!!!!! Tony G.   3133t from Medcal Catastrophy an intated by Crisis —                                                                      |                                                                      |     3 1 3 3 t                                                        |                               “-, ______,,–,,__                    |              ,-’““’ ‘ ‘                   _/     ‘.    [%%|     ‘|’ `,      ,-’“’ ‘                        _- _-/ ===   (%%)    J L/  “`,__/`’ ‘   _                        _-     ===_,,–`-_/     |“/   |                        /J     |`/     |/ Heres some old stuff  to the Coleman board there you guys never seen This is some bum tryin to get me thrown off a that Coleman board there. .   Question Posted by The People on 04/05/98 Sign the petition!!! This is to petition to get Tony G. banned permenently from fly fishing (and anything to do with any kind of fishing). Idiots that have nothing better to say about fishing then how they beat up innocent fishermen SHOULD NOT FISH!!! please sign your name and help Tony G. get the picture that he is not welcome on OUR streams!!! thanks Heres me bitchin cause Bryan took all my stuff off a the board.   .Question Posted by tony g on 03/16/98 buncha censors runnin this board my pop took it to them japs at anzio to try and stop crap like this he must be rollin over in his grave tony g An heres another scaramouche sayin Hey Bryan thats great keep up the censerin Mine Fureher. I am with Brian on this one, especially since he can spell. Keep up the great work and block out Tony G for all our sakes!!! ps. why can’t I catch fish ever??? where can i get maps for fishing??? Answer posted by Brown Trout on 03/16/98 This is the head jamoke Bryan sayin that he thinks censerin an Nazi stuff is good: Tony, I got into this sport to relax. This bulletinboard would like to maintain a certain level of etiquette. Swearing, racism and malicious behavior will not be tolerated. Offenders to these guidelines will be locked out of this bulletinboard. I also appreciate the fifth admendment, but please try to keep it clean. Thanks, Brian (Webmaster for Carl Coleman) Answer posted by Brian on 03/16/98 An finally this is me when them punks and bum push my buttons wrong:

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Response:

Question:

after two years of research and fishing i can now say with some authority,that yes,thick lip mullet,and golden grey mullet can be tackled on fly gear. i personally took numerous fish to 5lb 10oz last season here in Jersey (channel islands). we fish a place here on the south east that is best described as a tidal saltwater wetland. tides are large and racey,and they cannot be fished unless local knowedge is available. they behave much like bonefish,but with some marked differences.water temp, wind etc all playing a big factor,like with most species. I have read here that people have tried and failed with this species,but rest assured it can be done,and repeated. I`ll keep you all updated,with catch reports throughout the current season. — Keith.

Response:

Keith: If you had asked two years ago I coulda saved you the time. Floridians (those in the know) been catching mullet by cast net, seine, spinning tackle, and fly for a long time. Fact is in the old days they were a staple here. I’ve personally caught many with spin and fly. They are running little buggers and will come close to stripping all your backing off just as quick as you can set. Don’t know how it is now but they used to bunch up at the spill way after the rodman dam was built. (thats in the Oklawaha river before it empties into the St.Johns across from Buffalo Bluff near seven sisters islands just a tad south of Palatka. John Popp in Sanford Fl.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – after two years of research and fishing i can now say with some authority,that yes,thick lip mullet,and golden grey mullet can be tackled on fly gear. i personally took numerous fish to 5lb 10oz last season here in Jersey (channel islands). we fish a place here on the south east that is best described as a tidal saltwater wetland. tides are large and racey,and they cannot be fished unless local knowedge is available. they behave much like bonefish,but with some marked differences.water temp, wind etc all playing a big factor,like with most species. I have read here that people have tried and failed with this species,but rest assured it can be done,and repeated. I`ll keep you all updated,with catch reports throughout the current season. — Keith.

Response:

Hi John, What kind of flies and how do you fish for the mullet? aloha, Fred E. Nakaguma Aiea, Hawaii – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Keith: If you had asked two years ago I coulda saved you the time. Floridians (those in the know) been catching mullet by cast net, seine, spinning tackle, and fly for a long time. Fact is in the old days they were a staple here. I’ve personally caught many with spin and fly. They are running little buggers and will come close to stripping all your backing off just as quick as you can set. Don’t know how it is now but they used to bunch up at the spill way after the rodman dam was built. (thats in the Oklawaha river before it empties into the St.Johns across from Buffalo Bluff near seven sisters islands just a tad south of Palatka. John Popp in Sanford Fl.

– Fred E. Nakaguma Aiea, Hawaii

Response:

Keith: If you had asked two years ago I coulda saved you the time. Floridians (those in the know) been catching mullet by cast net, seine, spinning tackle, and fly for a long time. Fact is in the old days they were a staple here. I’ve personally caught many with spin and fly. They are running little buggers and will come close to stripping all your backing off just as quick as you can set. Don’t know how it is now but they used to bunch up at the spill way after the rodman dam was built. (thats in the Oklawaha river before it empties into the St.Johns across from Buffalo Bluff near seven sisters islands just a tad south of Palatka. John Popp in Sanford Fl.

My thoughts exactly regarding line catching.  Heck, for years, they were considered the worst of trash fish, from Mississippi around and down, even to the point of racial slurs.  Plus, in oyster season (cold weather), keep a few, gut them and slow smoke them head-on, bone-in over a hickory or equivilent (fruitwoods aren’t my favorite here) fire.  Then flake the flesh (no skin) and mix with cream cheese (about 1 to 1), Lea and Perrin (Worchestershire), thyme, salt, pepper, and lemon juice, and serve with Melba, Carr’s, or other firmer crackers and cold dry white wine. Yum, boy… R

Response:

Ok,Ok,OK, now that we know they can be caught…tell us what flies to use!! Very frustrating when fishing and see a 6-9 pounder jump and there is nothing I can do to hook it. Chuck

Response:

Ok,Ok,OK, now that we know they can be caught…tell us what flies to use!! Very frustrating when fishing and see a 6-9 pounder jump and there is nothing I can do to hook it. Chuck

here you go. The answer is neutral density. as you know mullet sift through sand and mud,and get their heads down to feed,and this is also true of our golden grey mullet. these fish operate on the very edge of the tide,sometimes in 5-6 inches of water,so you actually cast back to the shore,from maybe 75 feet,so as not to spook the fish or shoal. the fly is cast approx 5-6 feet in front of the feeding pattern, and this is something which is learned,as on different tides the fish often take different routes toward shore. but to cut a very long story short,a well presented fly in the size 10 and smaller size range is best. Bent back,and using a basically dusky dirty pink,body of wool,with plastic bead chain eyes,and with a trigger colored tail. i cannot really get more specific at this stage,but presentation,seems more important than shape,and color seems to be a factor also. in water thats less than 6 feet a red tail is effective,but in very shallow water a lime green tail is king. throughout the year,i`ll get the patterns standardised and publish them. along with the techniques required foer each fly. I know you americans loathe the mullet somewhat,but they are indeed a worthy quarry,in fact as hard to catch as any permit. I know,cause i`ve caught both,and they can be very very frustrating. — Keith.

Response:

Ok,Ok,OK, now that we know they can be caught…tell us what flies to use!! Very frustrating when fishing and see a 6-9 pounder jump and there is nothing I can do to hook it. Chuck

Well, maybe I misunderstood Mr Popp, but when I’ve caught them or seen them caught, it was by accident while fishing for something else.  I have no idea, other the a cast net, (when we want a couple to smoke ourselves ((Rather than buying)), we’ll carry a net while floundering) what one would use SPECIFICALLY to catch them.  I guess use a shrimp or streamer and pretend you’re after redfish or striped bass….a bone pattern and pretend you’re after bones….<G? R

Response:

good advice SNIPPED for bw.. I know you americans loathe the mullet somewhat,but they are indeed a worthy quarry,in fact as hard to catch as any permit. I know,cause i`ve caught both,and they can be very very frustrating. — Keith.

I’ll be damned!  I know of many old-timers that would be (be)mused…Fly-fishing specifically for mullet…hey, fishing is fishing, and this sounds fun, plus you can eat the catch…The only thing I can add is the above-mentioned pretense of being after game fish, as that usually insures at least one or two…<G.   One thought, however, is possible that we are talking about different species of fish?  I know of white and striped, but not golden, plus your mention of "hard to catch as any permit."  Your "mullet" isn’t some form of Pompano, is it? TC, R

Response:

Catching mullet on a fly is easily accomplished by chuming them with small bread balls and using small white/grey flies to immitate the bread balls. It is true that large mullet will take line, but they tire very quickly and are not at all like a bonefish. Bob E. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – after two years of research and fishing i can now say with some authority,that yes,thick lip mullet,and golden grey mullet can be tackled on fly gear. i personally took numerous fish to 5lb 10oz last season here in Jersey (channel islands). we fish a place here on the south east that is best described as a tidal saltwater wetland. tides are large and racey,and they cannot be fished unless local knowedge is available. they behave much like bonefish,but with some marked differences.water temp, wind etc all playing a big factor,like with most species. I have read here that people have tried and failed with this species,but rest assured it can be done,and repeated. I`ll keep you all updated,with catch reports throughout the current season. — Keith.

Response:

Catching mullet on a fly is easily accomplished by chuming them with small bread balls and using small white/grey flies to immitate the bread balls. It is true that large mullet will take line, but they tire very quickly and are not at all like a bonefish. Bob E.

Ah,yes you can catch mullet like this,but is it really fly fishing ?. i think not. you could also toss a hand grenade at the mullet,and stun them,walk on over and scoop them up in your hand. Unfortunatly,this would not be too much fun,for me or the mullet. I`m actually taking a purists view,that fly caught fish should be just that.Fly caught without the assistance of chum,or any other aid. One rod,one fly,one fish. At least thats the way i like to do it. Also in no way would i compare the fighting qualities to that of bonefish. i was refering to the habits of the fish. but then again,on the right gear,which seems to be a 6#wt outfit,they display fine fighting ability. Its like comparing a stock rainbow trout that weighs 8lb,and last saw a man feeding it trout pellets,to the wild rainbow of the mountain stream that weighs only 2lb. ask yourself which would be the better and most rewarding catch ?. Thats why i choose to flyfish in saltwater here.Its never been done on my doorstep,and its all a new and very rewarding experience,no matter what the species. — Keith.

Response:

Want to catch mullet on a fly without chuming? There’s a way to do that too. It’s much more challenging than the bread ball trick. Ask (better yet, hire) Capt. Steve Kantner from the Fort Lauderdale area. He’s the expert. Bob E. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Catching mullet on a fly is easily accomplished by chuming them with small bread balls and using small white/grey flies to immitate the bread balls. It is true that large mullet will take line, but they tire very quickly and are not at all like a bonefish. Bob E. Ah,yes you can catch mullet like this,but is it really fly fishing ?. i think not. you could also toss a hand grenade at the mullet,and stun them,walk on over and scoop them up in your hand. Unfortunatly,this would not be too much fun,for me or the mullet. I`m actually taking a purists view,that fly caught fish should be just that.Fly caught without the assistance of chum,or any other aid. One rod,one fly,one fish. At least thats the way i like to do it. Also in no way would i compare the fighting qualities to that of bonefish. i was refering to the habits of the fish. but then again,on the right gear,which seems to be a 6#wt outfit,they display fine fighting ability. Its like comparing a stock rainbow trout that weighs 8lb,and last saw a man feeding it trout pellets,to the wild rainbow of the mountain stream that weighs only 2lb. ask yourself which would be the better and most rewarding catch ?. Thats why i choose to flyfish in saltwater here.Its never been done on my doorstep,and its all a new and very rewarding experience,no matter what the species. — Keith.

Response:

Any small brown subsurface fly works. They are normally vegetarian but will on occasion think a fly floating vegetation. If it is slow going you can start a feeding frenzy with chicken feed. Take a handful, dip your hand in the water and mash the feed into a ball. Throw it out into the water. When the swirls are hot and heavy flip the fly into the melee and hang on. John Popp in Sanford Fl. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi John, What kind of flies and how do you fish for the mullet? aloha, Fred E. Nakaguma Aiea, Hawaii Keith: If you had asked two years ago I coulda saved you the time. Floridians (those in the know) been catching mullet by cast net, seine, spinning tackle, and fly for a long time. Fact is in the old days they were a staple here. I’ve personally caught many with spin and fly. They are running little buggers and will come close to stripping all your backing off just as quick as you can set. Don’t know how it is now but they used to bunch up at the spill way after the rodman dam was built. (thats in the Oklawaha river before it empties into the St.Johns across from Buffalo Bluff near seven sisters islands just a tad south of Palatka. John Popp in Sanford Fl. — Fred E. Nakaguma Aiea, Hawaii

Response:

When they are jumping they are ridding themselves of vermin and don’t give a fig for eating. Ever try to get a dog to do something in the middle of a flea scratch ? John Popp in Sanford Fl.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok,Ok,OK, now that we know they can be caught…tell us what flies to use!! Very frustrating when fishing and see a 6-9 pounder jump and there is nothing I can do to hook it. Chuck

Response:

SNIPPED Heck, for years, they were considered the worst of trash fish, from Mississippi around and down, even to the point of racial slurs

Funny isn’t it! – Same thing the world over. If we fished near a sewer outlet, we used to laugh about catching a "blind mullet". Cheers JK

Response:

Question:

I came up with a great new sport. It makes Fishing look like kids stuff 1) Get up into an airplane Piper cub will do and fly over someones ranch where they have cows. Get a large grappling hook and sharpen all the barbs. fly down towards the cows and swing the hook behind them. If you hook one ty it off onto one of the wing struts and gain altitude. I call this "beefing"

Response:

Uh oh – beware the Noll troll who wrote, in part: … It makes Fishing look like kids stuff.

I call this "beefing." << -tran

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I came up with a great new sport. It makes Fishing look like kids stuff 1) Get up into an airplane Piper cub will do and fly over someones ranch where they have cows. Get a large grappling hook and sharpen all the barbs. fly down towards the cows and swing the hook behind them. If you hook one ty it off onto one of the wing struts and gain altitude. I call this "beefing" Hey Nimrod! Here’s a novel idea! Forget the cows!!!  Try doing this on jetskiers! A target that is moving would take more skill. Cows would be far too easy anyone could do that! Your going to have to work on a new name though…….Bummer !      Steve

Right on!!!

Response:

Question:

As long as he doesn’t lie under oath I’ll vote for him.  :-)< How about if he *lays* under oath?

If he wants to do something with potato chips, that’s OK too.  :-) — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

Response:

As long as he doesn’t lie under

oath I’ll vote for him.  :-)< How about if he *lays* under oath?

Response:

Sounds like we need to get the independent council to take a look at

this… Hey, what this guy does on his own time is OK by me. He  can commit unusual acts with a salmon on his tying bench for all I care – not my business, don’t want to know.  He can rent out the upstairs bedroom if he likes, it’s OK by me.  As long as he doesn’t lie under oath I’ll vote for him.  :-) — Bob Jarvis Mail address hacked to foil spammers!

Response:

Sounds like we need to get the independent council to take a look at this…< Why?  Is sex involved?

Well, I guess it is.  Judging from the original post, somebody got it where the sun don’t shine. Peter

Response:

: Sounds like we need to get the independent council to take a look at this…< : Why?  Is sex involved? It will be, if the Independent Counsel gets involved. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He took our deposit $$$. and never showed. He refuses to send a refund Let everyone know Tell him and them where you heard it. Olympic Peninsula scum Bob " the pig" Pigott Ph      360 327 3554          208344 Highway 101          Port Angeles Wa 98363

Hi Fred, I think I would let it go because you are giving Bob too much attention. I heard his was already so busy that he couldn’t really handle much more exposures, good or bad. I guess we all make mistakes. Bob made his and now you are making yours. I was mean to someone on this news group and after thinking about it, I apologized to everyone for being so nasty. Don’t let this ruin the sport for you. I think if you made up to Bob he would give you your money back? Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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When I was living in Idaho, I fished with a guy that guided out of Forks for about 15 years.  He knew Bob and recommended him to me as a source of information prior to my trip to the peninsula last year.  From everything that my friend told me, Mr. Pigot is an extremely knowledgeable and ethical guide.  I would be very interested to hear his perspective, because I know from my own guiding experiences that often miscommunication and differences in expectations can cause severe problems between parties.  I know that Bob has an e-mail address but I have misplaced it–but I have sent a couple messages to other guides in the area and the chamber of commerce in Forks to see if he could join in this discussion. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Good idea Paul, if he doesn’t have a computer you could post the message for him. —

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Sounds like we need to get the independent council to take a look at this… — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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Sounds like we need to get the independent council to take a look at this… — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

I hear he’s fresh out of a job and looking for opportunities! Ralph H

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Sounds like we need to get the independent council to take a look at this…<

Why?  Is sex involved?

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Hello All, I am from Port Angeles, and I know Mr. Pigott and his family.  I have fished with him multiple times and found him to be quite helpful and very professional.  I would be interested in hearing Mr. Pigotts side of the story. Paul J.

        aha! the game is afoot!  it just might be that the evil pigott has a position of his own, which differs from the angry fred.  all of which goes to show that there are two sides to every story.  and when you choose to make your position public, you should be prepared to have your adversary do the same.         a. wayne harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – : : In January,  this year I sent a deposit of $280 to Bob Pigott for two : days fishing on Tues Aug 25  and Wed Aug 26. [...an story oft-repeated...] 1 complaint post    == a service to the community 2 complaint posts   == you want to make sure no one missed the first. ok. 3-4 complaint posts == you are not dealing with your anger 5+ complaint posts  == I hope you don’t own a gun Seriously Fred, you have got to let this go. Anger only destroys you and your life, it does nothing positive. So Bob took $280 from you. That’s nothing in the scheme of things. He’s got to deal with his own conscience. Report it to the BBB and the Chamber of Commerce, and to ROFF, but then move on…dwelling on it only hurts you. Go out fishing, look at the beauty of nature around you, and say, "Man, I am blessed to be healthy and able to come out here and enjoy nature, to walk the stream, to see the beauty around me, to hear the beauty, even to smell it. Life is great!" Take care, JonCook.

Here here Jon!!!!   LET IT GO MAN LET …. IT …. GO!!!! — #  D. Stew McLeod … working at The Boeing Company .. in Renton, WA. #"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; # an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." #    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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Good idea Paul, if he doesn’t have a computer you could post the message for him. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello All, I am from Port Angeles, and I know Mr. Pigott and his family.  I have fished with him multiple times and found him to be quite helpful and very professional.  I would be interested in hearing Mr. Pigotts side of the story. Paul J.

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They will not let me post my story All their readers should know about a crooked guide Monday, September 21, 1998…

Fred I think most of us wouldn’t want to be treated as you report. No matter what you may have said to this person I don’t think they have a right to keep your money, particularly if you have proof you notified him of the change in dates. Unfortunately you are not the only person this happens to. The VFS likley can’t publish the stories of everyone who suffers the same treatment. They probably have legal problems with it as well, they could be liable for any factual errors they publish – such statements are very damaging to someones reputation. That’s not their Business (dollar wise) You should contact whatever boards and associations in Washington State who would be interested; does the state licence it’s guides –  report his to them. Report it to any guide associations – particurly if this particular guide is a member – perhaps they will arbitrate a settlement. Contact the local Better Business Bureau and Chamber of Commerce. Ask for their help and follow up. Find out what they’ve done with your complaint. However you won’t solve the problem by continually venting it here. It’s time to move on. Ralph H

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Fred, I am sympathetic to your story but I am beginning to mumble the name Bob Pigott in my sleep.  Your frequent posting to this group with the same story is getting old.  Turn the guy into the state guides association, sue him or find a new hobby! <grin  Better yet, go fishing and forget the bastard!

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I too am tired of your spam.  try doing one posting every 3 months, and makeing it more exciting. Schuhfly

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Hello All, I am from Port Angeles, and I know Mr. Pigott and his family.  I have fished with him multiple times and found him to be quite helpful and very professional.  I would be interested in hearing Mr. Pigotts side of the story. Paul J.

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They will not let me post my story All their readers should know about a crooked guide Monday, September 21, 1998 In January,  this year I sent a deposit of $280 to Bob Pigott for two days fishing on Tues Aug 25  and Wed Aug 26. A month later I called and changed the dates to Sun Aug 30 and Mon 31 I remember that I wanted to change to Sun 8/30 and Tues 9/1 but he wanted two days straight and steered me back to Sun 8/30 and MON 8/31 I remember clearly because I was a little disappointed in that I wanted a day in between  to expore w my friend – both the town (I am looking at a major move in my life -relocating my family west)  and the fishing. However I did not push the issue and we left it at 8/30 and 8/31. When we agreed to these dates and I hung up I had a feeling – you know-  when someone is rushed or partially blowing you off, or partially listening. So – I reconfirmed twice more. One week before the trip my friend from Canada called, reconfirmed and was told to call when we arrived in town. I’m a pretty thorough person. I arranged the whole trip w airlines, rental cars, my friend, 2 real estate brokers in P.A.and Port Townsend. It all revolved around a trade show that I had in Vancouver on 8/29. Each day was set. My friend flew in from Ontario and we drove down from Vancouver on 8/29. I called Bob Pigott 5 or 6 times from my cellular phone and 3 or 4 more times fron the Doubletree hoitel in PA. No return calls. I could not believe it. I had used guides with advance deposits before. I called numerous times on Sunday 8/30. When I finally got his wife at 4AM on 8/31 she told me that she would send a check to me. She told me that she had me down for Tues and Wed. Which showsd me that this simpleton never paid attention when I initially made the changes and confirmed the changes. I will not pay for his stupidity. I must admit that after 10 calls my messages were pretty enraged and outraged , although I mean all of what I said. Two weeks later on 9/15 I called and got Mr Pigott. His words to me were "no check". – and that I owed him an apology for my messages. If I had gotten my $280 back I probably would have chalked it up to a bad experience with an idiot and put my energy elsewhere – I have many other more important venues – family (infant grandaughter, my guitar,or maybe even business) So: This is my best recourse Is it worth it to me to go to small claims court? I should sue the bastard for airfare for 2, hotels etc I may. But I want the world to know that there is slime in this business. I would like to put this pig out of business. I want everyone to know Pigott gives guides a black eye I have used guides many times but from now on I will think twice. I think i may even quit using guides. I will certainly never send $$ in advance again. He took our deposit $$$. and never showed. He refuses to send a refund Let everyone know Tell him and them where you heard it. Olympic Peninsula scum Bob " the pig" Pigott Ph      360 327 3554           208344 Highway 101           Port Angeles Wa 98363 Fred Lebow http://www.flebow.com http://www.bluesbank.org — Fred Lebow http://www.flebow.com

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Question:

I am relocating to the Boston area (North Shore) and I am looking for good trout spots as well as some hotspots for Bluefish and Strippers. Any ideas are most appreciated. Mike

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I am relocating to the Boston area (North Shore) and I am looking for good trout spots as well as some hotspots for Bluefish and Strippers. Any ideas are most appreciated. Mike

My web site has links to the area fish finder reports, including Reel-Time, for whom I write the Metropolitan Boston report. Additionally, I carry stocking reports and fishing reports from local anglers.  I’m in the midst of updating the page, but you’ll find plenty of info that can get you started.  Feel free to e-mail me with any questions. Welcome to the area. — Mark Cahill For E-mail remove the _Remove_This from the reply to address. http://www.geocities.com/Baja/3297/fishing.htm Mark Cahill’s Fishing New England – Daily Fishing News http://www.reel-time.com/ The Internet Journal of Saltwater Fly Fishing – Metropolitan Boston Regional Editor

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: I am relocating to the Boston area (North Shore) and I am looking for good : trout spots as well as some hotspots for Bluefish and Strippers. : Any ideas are most appreciated. : Mike For trout try the Nissitissit C&R area in Pepperill. For SW try southern ME and Plum I and Crane’s Beach in Ipswitch.

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Question:

Sounds like fun!  Where do I order supplies? Thanks!

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Good idea Judy— I "haunt" office supplies places like Staples and Office Depot to look for clear or transluscent envelopes which are probably similar to what you are describing. Makes it so easy to find what you are working on and looks very neat stored. Since I bought my see through vinyl bag, I want to buy more! It looks so neat storing my current project and because I never work on one thing at a time—I can use a few more clear vinyl bags to store other ongoing projects as well as stash I need right away. I shall be looking at the July summer sales so I can buy more clear vinyl tote bags! I’ve noticed clear vinyl zipper cosmetic bags in different sizes too but the ones I wanted to buy had shampoos and lotions in them I didn’t want—does anyone know a source to buy these bags…empty? — Lula from Wooly Dreams Design I only like WORK when it’s attached to a NEEDLE…. http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Lula, Mine is on show as well… I have a small [I work in hand] zip lock carry thing (technical term) 24cm x 18cm. [Just dug one out... they are Transparent Data Envelopes]  The really good thing about them is that the chart of my carry along project can be placed against one side and is easy to read without removal. The only problem is that the buisness card holder isn’t quite wide enough for my bus weekly [if bought Monday they die around Thursday].

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Hi Judy I read your memo on plastic bags for needlework.  Do not leave your needlepoint in plastic bags for a very long time.  Wool needs to breathe and if it is in plastic it does not breathe.  For a short time its o.k. But not good for a long period of time; the wool will rot.  I am a needlepointer and new to AOL.  I have been on Compuserve.  I am thinking of cancelling Compuserve. EdithNYC  

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I know similar advice has been posted before, but friends, check out the fishing section of your local sporting goods store. There are all sorts of nifty little (and big) carrying cases with compartments just right for our stitching stuff. Yesterday I was looking for some fishing line to use for basting gridlines on my linen (helps count, doesn’t get caught in the stitches) and came home with a soft-sided zippered case designed for fishing supplies. It has heavyweight zip-lock style bags with sturdy adhesive tabs with holes to go on the two rings attached to the bag. The outside of the case is water repellent and has a handle. It’s perfect for carting around all of those odd fibers for my current needlepoint project. I’ll post the name brand, etc. of the one I bought if anyone is interested, but just go and see what they have in your area.

You are soooo right about the fishing department.  I got a great little box that fits in my tote bag at KMart’s department – 2 sides with compartments – now holding my sissors, needles (in small wooden cases), pen, pencil….. the modern "chatalaine"!  I also got a set of small cases that screw together for a better price than the craft "megastore" nearby.  Also, if you or DH or someone else fly fishes and ties flys – my DH is always eying my stash – he loves the many different fibers – especially some of the flashy ones.  Now, I always go along when he wants fishing stuff and he likes to come along when I go to the XS or needlepoint store… Kandy June

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I know similar advice has been posted before, but friends, check out the fishing section of your local sporting goods store.

        SNIP  I’ll post the name brand, etc. of the one I bought if anyone is interested, but just go and see what they have in your area. I’m interested — please post the info! Chris

Okay, Chris, the case I bought is called a Spinner Wrap, brand name TackleLogic, manufactured by AmSport. There are also two larger wrap cases with different names, but the same basic design. I found mine at Oshman’s here in Houston. June

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Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today! A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on top–and two long handles.

Hi Lula, Mine is on show as well… I have a small [I work in hand] zip lock carry thing (technical term) 24cm x 18cm. [Just dug one out... they are Transparent Data Envelopes]  The really good thing about them is that the chart of my carry along project can be placed against one side and is easy to read without removal. The only problem is that the buisness card holder isn’t quite wide enough for my bus weekly [if bought Monday they die around Thursday]. Judy  

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In that case, how ’bout the new bags by Ziploc?  I’m talking about the plastic bags sold specifically for veggie storage.  They’re riddled w/ holes, to allow the veggies to breathe. pj I read your memo on plastic bags for needlework.  Do not leave your needlepoint in plastic bags for a very long time.  Wool needs to breathe and if it is in plastic it does not breathe.  For a short time its o.k.

… — WCU Computer Center          | Western Carolina University  |  "Now, if I had a brain and it wasn’t Cullowhee, N.C. 28723        |   in my head, where would I keep it?" 704-227-7282                 |                          -Ryan Steele

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I read your memo on plastic bags for needlework.  Do not leave your needlepoint in plastic bags for a very long time.  Wool needs to breathe and if it is in plastic it does not breathe.  For a short time its o.k. But not good for a long period of time; the wool will rot.  I am a needlepointer

Edith: What is a short time and what is a long time?   I use Ziploc bags for my works-in-progress.  I stitch my way through meetings and dropping a Ziploc into my tote is easy.   Also, the Ziplocs keep things separated in the basket at home.   I estimate a needlepoint (with wool) project is in progress for 6-8 months (depending on my enthusiasm and the number of meetings I have). Speaking of plastic, I keep all my Paternayan in Rubbermaid plastic storage boxes.  I have for about 10 years.  To my eye and nose the yarn is as fresh as it would be had it continued to live in the copier-paper boxes it had inhabited before.  (Rubbermaid is translucent, copier paper boxes aren’t, hence the change.)    Last year, temporarily, my sewing room was in the basement.   Neither yarn nor floss nor fabric (I am a quilter) suffered.    [Basement is finished and a dehumidifier runs all summer. -- I'm able to be up- stairs now and appreciate the sunlight.] Nann

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Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today! A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on top–and two long handles. I always did think it was a shame to hide all those pretty yarns and threads along with the canvas stretched on scroll bars that I happen to be working on! Now I can be a show off for the summer months when I head off on my travels again. No problem with moisture–the bag is an open tote and kept out of the sun. — Lula from Wooly Dreams Design http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/

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Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today! A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on top–and two long handles.

And are you planning on letting us know where we can get such a bag?   Hmmmm????  ;) Tara R. Scholtz         University of Maryland at College Park If training has not made a horse more beautiful, nobler in carriage, more attentive in his behavior, revealing pleasure in his own accomplishment…then he has not truly been schooled in dressage.                                 -Col. Handler

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Hi Tara– Since you’re in MD — take a ride to Laurel and the big open shopping center on RT 1 — it’s a shop named Gallo a few doors from the Woolworths—this is the first time I went there–it’a place full of inexpensive clothing and accessories. There were some bigger clear vinly tote bags there too with a black quilted bottom and trim—leopard bottom and trim and gold vinyl trim one. Also other vinyl totes in see through bright colors. All the different sized bags were all priced at $10 Nice and fun way to tote around and show off the needlework you’re working on!!! — Lula from Wooly Dreams Design http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And are you planning on letting us know where we can get such a bag? Hmmmm????  ;) Tara R. Scholtz         University of Maryland at College Park

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 Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I  found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today!  A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the  plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on  top–and two long handles. TAnd are you planning on letting us know where we can get such a bag?  Hmmmm????  ;)   Well I don’t know about any one elses bags but I made mine. I was looking for a specific piece of fabric in my stash when I ran across a piece I had stitched a while back and had put back into the box of fabrics when done pending money for framing. Well I set the piece aside on the sewing table to get the the fabric I needed and when I went to pick up the stitched dragon I noticed to my amazement that the fabric I had been working a quilt with matched the color of the dragon I went out and bought another yard of that fabric and used the dragon for the front of a "tote bag" to haul my stitching projects with  Made it about 20 inches tall and about 15 inches wide with long carry straps that would allow to go over the shoulder. Used some scraps of batting and muslin to line it with for strength and added a few pockets for things like pencils (for pattern marking) and scissors and extra needles.  No pattern used just sat at the table and played with the fabric and it came out great. Scroll frame fits in well with loads of room for a small tackle box (to hold floss bobbins and scissors and extra needles) as well as a clip board with the pattern which allows me to lean it up against something to see the pattern while I stitch. Roseanne Brown Please do not add my name to any mail list unless I ask for it. —  * QMPro 1.51 * Work is for people who don’t know how to stitch.

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This sounds *wonderful*!!  Where, oh where, did you find such a treasure?!!! C’mon, share!!! Sherri

: Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I : found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today! : A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the : plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on : top–and two long handles. : I always did think it was a shame to hide all those pretty yarns and : threads along with the canvas stretched on scroll bars that I happen to : be working on! : Now I can be a show off for the summer months when I head off on my : travels again. No problem with moisture–the bag is an open tote and : kept out of the sun. : — : Lula from Wooly Dreams Design : http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/

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Hi Sherri– I posted a follow up post to Tara S on where I found my see through vinyl needlework tote bag. However, I see you are in PA so where I bought mine won’t be applicable to you. Some the best places to find different and useful odds and ends are those boutique stores one finds in many malls—-places like Claire’s Accessories. Very often you’ll find inexpensive neat little plastic cases and zippered bags that can be used for holding needlework accessories. Or go look in beach wear or accessory departments to find more see through bags in different materials. Like the almost transparent nylon mesh used for nice looking tote style bags too. I bought a black zippered tote bag of nylon mesh that I carry and show off my bigger pieces of working needlepoint—and that only cost $7. on sale! — Lula from Wooly Dreams Design http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This sounds *wonderful*!!  Where, oh where, did you find such a treasure?!!! C’mon, share!!! Sherri : Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I : found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today! : A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the : plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on : top–and two long handles.

Response:

For people in Canada,  Mountain Equipment Co-op (a wilderness outfitters type shop) sells bags like this.  They are see through. Since they are constructed for heavy duty work, they may be a little much for some.  If I remember correctly, they come in various sizes. Cheers, Nancy Lorraine – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Since I have no shame in showing off my needlepoint wherever I go, I found the ultimate show-off the needlework carrying bag today! A clear plastic see through tote bag of heavy gauge vinyl (not like the plastic handled–thin clear plastic carrying bags) with a tab lock on top–and two long handles. I always did think it was a shame to hide all those pretty yarns and threads along with the canvas stretched on scroll bars that I happen to be working on! Now I can be a show off for the summer months when I head off on my travels again. No problem with moisture–the bag is an open tote and kept out of the sun. — Lula from Wooly Dreams Design http://home.earthlink.net/~woolydream/

Response:

I know similar advice has been posted before, but friends, check out the fishing section of your local sporting goods store. There are all sorts of nifty little (and big) carrying cases with compartments just right for our stitching stuff. Yesterday I was looking for some fishing line to use for basting gridlines on my linen (helps count, doesn’t get caught in the stitches) and came home with a soft-sided zippered case designed for fishing supplies. It has heavyweight zip-lock style bags with sturdy adhesive tabs with holes to go on the two rings attached to the bag. The outside of the case is water repellent and has a handle. It’s perfect for carting around all of those odd fibers for my current needlepoint project. I’ll post the name brand, etc. of the one I bought if anyone is interested, but just go and see what they have in your area. June

Response:

I know similar advice has been posted before, but friends, check out the fishing section of your local sporting goods store. There are all sorts of nifty little (and big) carrying cases with compartments just right for our stitching stuff. Yesterday I was looking for some fishing line to use for basting gridlines on my linen (helps count, doesn’t get caught in the stitches) and came home with a soft-sided zippered case designed for fishing supplies. It has heavyweight zip-lock style bags with sturdy adhesive tabs with holes to go on the two rings attached to the bag. The outside of the case is water repellent and has a handle. It’s perfect for carting around all of those odd fibers for my current needlepoint project. I’ll post the name brand, etc. of the one I bought if anyone is interested, but just go and see what they have in your area.

I’m interested — please post the info! Chris

Response:

Question:

Does anyone have experience with the lower cost flats boats. I live up in the northeast and go striper fishing in fairly protected inshore areas. I am considering the purchase of a flats boat but when a Hewes 16 foot Bonefisher is 18-19K I can not justify it. I have found some lower cost boats such as the Prosport 16 footer, Osborn 17 footer etc that are closer to 11-12K for boat motor and trailer but have not heard of these brands. Any comments would be welcome Any

Response:

Does anyone have experience with the lower cost flats boats. I live up in the northeast and go striper fishing in fairly protected inshore areas. I am considering the purchase of a flats boat but when a Hewes 16 foot Bonefisher is 18-19K I can not justify it. I have found some lower cost boats such as the Prosport 16 footer, Osborn 17 footer etc that are closer to 11-12K for boat motor and trailer but have not heard of these brands. Any comments would be welcome Thank you

Response:

I fish a Mako 19, specially rigged for flyfishing here in the Northeast, and you are welcome to my opinions, however contrary: I see no need for a flats boat up here (long island sound). The mako will get into 12 inches, as opposed to 8, and I see no difference in fishing opportunities. The truth is I can get the mako out on days when the flats boats have to stay home. Most of the flat boat owners I have spoken to up here, when really pressed, will say that they did not buy the appropriate boat. Just my 2 cents!

Response:

Does anyone have experience with the lower cost flats boats. I live up in the northeast and go striper fishing in fairly protected inshore areas. I am considering the purchase of a flats boat but when a Hewes 16 foot Bonefisher is 18-19K I can not justify it. I have found some lower cost boats such as the Prosport 16 footer, Osborn 17 footer etc that are closer to 11-12K for boat motor and trailer but have not heard of these brands. Any comments would be welcome Any

I’ll be looking for a flats boat, soon.  Never had one, but from what I’ve been told it is a good move to buy used boat and get a new engine. Given the huge depreciation they suffer after the first year or so, and the fact the the hulls usually hold up well, and the engine is number one conceern, it seems like a logical approach. Adam

Response:

Question:

I am wanting some suggestions for good trout fly fishing in the mountains of western north carolina.  I am new to this art and any help would be appreciated. — Michael Ebbs Center for Communications and Signal Processing North Carolina State University

Response:

<< am lookin for information on the western half of North Carolina… In the Ashville area, the fly shop of choice for info is Hunter Banks. I like to fish the Pisgah National Forest, specifically the Davidson River but there are many other near by from GA to Va. If you want your trout easy & big the Cherokee reservation has some tribal stocked waters which they will sell you daily permits. The national park has an abundance of streams.   Also suggest the rivers in the Joyce Kilmer nat forest, as well as the French Broad around Ashville. There is also  fly shop in Cashiers and near Blowing Rock (different shop) for additional info, but the guys at Hunter Banks will give you so much info, you’ll not be able to digest it all at once. Good Luck Wayne Knight — Wayne Knight CSERVE, 71151, 2762

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Just got back from a visit to my folks in Waynesville.  Took a tour of the eastern edge of the Great Smokies.  The Catalooche, and Big Creek in that area are both good although the fish apparently can be a little picky on the Catalooche.  Both streams are gorgeous and as a rule not crowded due to relatively limited road access.

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