Question:

Do you think atheists are more likely than Judeo-Christians to abuse their elderly parents (on account of the fact that they don’t believe in God and therefore are not held to that ridiculous "honor thy father and mother" edict)?

No, I don’t. But I do think that different cultures often develop very different attitudes about animals and about how they should be treated. That’s pretty hard to deny. Cows are sacred in India. Pigs are "unclean" in Moslem and Jewish culture. Dogs are food items in Vietnam. Horses are food items in France. Japanese fishermen deliberately kill large numbers of dolphins. It goes on and on. These practices and attitudes may be consistent and uncontroversial within a culture. Problems arise, however, when different cultures interact. I think that’s what’s happening with the Amish puppy mills. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

TWIMC 1. Horse trading with Amish? Want to lose your shirt? . . . only a fool. . . . Thats just a fact and if anyone on this NG would like to test it with their own money, I will personally offer to make comforting cooing sounds when you return without your money and with 3 to 6 new assholes. 2. Yeah, they do have a different attitude toward animals: They are single minded farmers surviving with a minimum of technology in a corporate farming world. They have to pay their taxes like everyone else, and the have lots of kids to help get established. Land costs money. They do what they have to to survive and Im not going to pick at their sores. Earth to ROFF! Earth to ROFF! 3. Associating Amish run puppy mills with Amish people is a stretch? . . . is bigoted? What a crock. Maybe its a stretch if you don’t get around much. Steve is right. Try this one on: Is mentioning the leading involvement of young renegade Amish in several high profile Pennsylvania drug busts . . . bigoted? Or is it just that shit happens? See, young Amish men raise hell. Surprise. Sheesh! 4. What is so hard about understanding that the difference between bigotry and cultural objectivity has a broad band of gray running down the middle. Its not your simple-minded binary geek-friendly, male preferred "either or" call. Scheesh, fucken word weenies! 5. Just as an FYI item: There are some unflattering terms that Amish use for non-Amish. One is "English." What are some or the others? Dave Ideology sucks

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – rw, I would like to see some proof that the Amish mis-treat their animals, do you have any?  Raising puppies for sale doesn’t make them bad guys.  If you want to point your finger at someone I suggest you look into the racing dog business and some of the filthy puppy mills we have in California. There’s Amish folk in California?  :-) Joe F.

Response:

rw, I would like to see some proof that the Amish mis-treat their animals, do you have any?  Raising puppies for sale doesn’t make them bad guys.  If you want to point your finger at someone I suggest you look into the racing dog business and some of the filthy puppy mills we have in California. Ernie "rw" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is different. The reason it’s different is that the Amish religion teaches that animals are to be used for utilitarian purposes only, and not kept as pets. That’s just fine with me. I have no problem with that at all. However, it seems to be having the perverse effect that the Amish have become major players in the puppy mill business, which supplies animals to pet shops. They look at the animals as merely commodities, as just another "crop", even though the final customers buy them as pets. The Amish certainly aren’t the only people in the puppy mill business, but they are major players. I realize that people who don’t care about dogs probably don’t give a shit, but it’s a sore point with me. It’s a very cruel business.

Response:

In standard ROFF form, I’m now being portrayed as "anti-Amish".

Not so fast my evil name-twin Nobody said you’re anti-Amish, did they? Your statements simply appear to present a somewhat stereotypical view of Amish beliefs, IMO. I’m not, of course. I’m anti-puppy-mill. It just happens that for historical and cultural reasons some Amish are very involved in the puppy mill business. That’s an easily verified fact.

It’s easily verified that there are Amish families involved in the puppy mill business. It’s NOT easily verified that they’re in that business because they’re Amish. There’s a HUGE difference between "some Amish people abuse animals" and "some people abuse animals because they’re Amish." It sounds as though you were somehow implying the latter. Do you think atheists are more likely than Judeo-Christians to abuse their elderly parents (on account of the fact that they don’t believe in God and therefore are not held to that ridiculous "honor thy father and mother" edict)? –Steve

Response:

Ken Fortenberry writes: … (I expect Fortenberry to start denouncing me as an antisemite now. … Stop your whining, Barnard. — Ken Fortenberry- can actually spell anti-Semite

<<<splork

Response:

rw, I would like to see some proof that the Amish mis-treat their animals, do you have any?  Raising puppies for sale doesn’t make them bad guys.  If you want to point your finger at someone I suggest you look into the racing dog business and some of the filthy puppy mills we have in California.

There’s Amish folk in California?  :-) Joe F.

Response:

Give him hell if you want, Bob, but beware, you may end up with a picture of Snoop Doggy Dog under your name on the ROFF Faces page.

  Oh, god, I’ve gone too far.  Anything but that!  I know I should have kept my opinions to myself.  Oh, crap.   It was really out of character for me to respond in such a manner and, normally, I wouldn’t.  But it did strike me that some stereotyping is acceptable and some isn’t.  I would never support a puppy mill business no matter who runs it.  If the Amish do indeed participate in the puppy mill business, I’m certainly not in favor of it.  I’ll bet this and many other topics will be discussed around the "campfire" on the SJ.  I’m going to be really, really nice to everyone so as to avoid any "mislabeling". Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

Prehaps because they win a lot of races! Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Strange, then perhaps you can explain explain why Amish trained horses always bring a premium price? An Amish lady is trotting down the road in her horse and buggy when she is pulled over by a policeman. "Ma’am, I’m not going to ticket you, but I do have to issue you a warning. You have a broken reflector on your buggy." "Oh, I’ll let my husband, Jacob, know as soon as I get home." "That’s fine.  Another thing, ma’am,  I don’t like the way than one rein loops across the horse’s back and around one of his testicles. I consider that cruelty to animals. Have your husband take care of that right away!" Later that day, the lady is home telling her husband about her encounter with the cop. "Well, dear, what exactly did he say?" "He said the reflector is broken." "I can fix that in two minutes.  What else?" "I’m not sure, Jacob…something about the emergency brake…" Frank (dodging road apples) Church The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R.

  Holy stereotype, Batman!  Where the hell are all the PC cops?  This isn’t my job but since none of the regular PC cops stepped forward:   If someone on this group were to say, "blacks are lazy welfare bums, Mexicans are lazy, Jews are money hungry, Pollocks are dumb, southerners are in-bred hillbillies, asians are shifty, all male flight attendants are flamingly gay, Indians are drunken bums, eastern fly fishers are sissy boys or westerners are room temperature IQ rednecks," the roff PC police would have jumped on them in a flash.  But —- I guess this is different. Snoop — —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

As for "puppy mills", ain’t never heard of one being run by the amish. They must be a lower order of amish located in Pennsylvania. (ducking here)

Go into google and search on "amish puppy mills". It’s appalling. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

<context snipped  Pollocks are dumb, <more snippage eastern fly fishers are sissy boys or westerners are room temperature IQ rednecks,"

You got at least one of these right.  Pollocks (those inferior north atlantic cousins of the haddock that they try to sell as "schrod" when the cod are not biting…) are dumb as hell. –Stan (Polack first class)

Response:

  Holy stereotype, Batman!  Where the hell are all the PC cops?  This isn’t my job but since none of the regular PC cops stepped forward:   If someone on this group were to say, "blacks are lazy welfare bums, Mexicans are lazy, Jews are money hungry, Pollocks are dumb, southerners are in-bred hillbillies, asians are shifty, all male flight attendants are flamingly gay, Indians are drunken bums, eastern fly fishers are sissy boys or westerners are room temperature IQ rednecks," the roff PC police would have jumped on them in a flash.  But —- I guess this is different.

It is different. The reason it’s different is that the Amish religion teaches that animals are to be used for utilitarian purposes only, and not kept as pets. That’s just fine with me. I have no problem with that at all. However, it seems to be having the perverse effect that the Amish have become major players in the puppy mill business, which supplies animals to pet shops. They look at the animals as merely commodities, as just another "crop", even though the final customers buy them as pets. The Amish certainly aren’t the only people in the puppy mill business, but they are major players. I realize that people who don’t care about dogs probably don’t give a shit, but it’s a sore point with me. It’s a very cruel business. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

  Holy stereotype, Batman!  Where the hell are all the PC cops? … But —- I guess this is different.

Exactly. Some here ARE different and have proven themselves to be so thoroughly insufferable and egotistical that it’s not productive to waste any energy admonishing them about their ugly prejudices. Give him hell if you want, Bob, but beware, you may end up with a picture of Snoop Doggy Dog under your name on the ROFF Faces page. — Ken Fortenberry- "Porky Forty"

Response:

It is different. The reason it’s different is that the Amish religion teaches that animals are to be used for utilitarian purposes only, and not kept as pets… [snip] They look at the animals as merely commodities, as just another "crop", even though the final customers buy them as pets.

RW, I found your puppy mills post to be enlightening. I learned something from you and I appreciate that. I’m much less inclined to purchase from a pet store should my kids ever talk me into having a pet. But, despite your explanation, I’m a bit uncomfortable with your Amish stereotype. As an example (and *only* as an illustrative example), try this on… "The Black culture teaches Black men that it’s OK to father children out of wedlock. Women are to be used for utilitarian purposes only and not to be kept as wives. They look at women as merely commodities, just another crop, even though children are born as a result." Sounds pretty bad, doesn’t it? If I were to suggest such a thing on this forum I would be ostracized and rightfully so. I’m not suggesting that you be ostracized, but rather that it’s not *because* they’re Amish that they’re doing something so despicable. –Steve

Response:

: It is different. The reason it’s different is that the Amish religion : teaches that animals are to be used for utilitarian purposes only, and : not kept as pets. Hmm, for starters I don’t believe that, and even if the general gist is true, the two are not mutually exclusive. The Amish are people, just like us, and I cannot believe that many of them don’t get attached to their animals, especially since they interact with, and even depend on, them more than we do. FWIW, I’d much rather see an animal get used than stand in a pen every day or sit in a cramped dog run. I’ll bet you won’t see an Amish horse develop the "bad" habits that indicate psychological imbalance (i.e., pacing, cribbing, pawing, and other repetetive acts). The fact is, there is *way* more abuse by us "recreational" pet owners. : They look at the animals as merely : commodities, as just another "crop", This is simple stereotyping. Yes, I’ve no doubt that there are "bad apples" in the Amish communities, just as there are in ours. People are people. But "they" aren’t any worse than us, and in many ways they might even be better… JonCook. — Are you a r.o.f.f. newbie? Then see http://www.cs.nmsu.edu/~jcook/ROFF/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It is different. The reason it’s different is that the Amish religion teaches that animals are to be used for utilitarian purposes only, and not kept as pets… [snip] They look at the animals as merely commodities, as just another "crop", even though the final customers buy them as pets. RW, I found your puppy mills post to be enlightening. I learned something from you and I appreciate that. I’m much less inclined to purchase from a pet store should my kids ever talk me into having a pet. But, despite your explanation, I’m a bit uncomfortable with your Amish stereotype. As an example (and *only* as an illustrative example), try this on… "The Black culture teaches Black men that it’s OK to father children out of wedlock. Women are to be used for utilitarian purposes only and not to be kept as wives. They look at women as merely commodities, just another crop, even though children are born as a result." Sounds pretty bad, doesn’t it? If I were to suggest such a thing on this forum I would be ostracized and rightfully so. I’m not suggesting that you be ostracized, but rather that it’s not *because* they’re Amish that they’re doing something so despicable.

Many stereotypes have an element of truth to them. For example, in the Middle Ages the Church forbade Christians from charging interest on loans, but Jews were under no such restriction. As a result, many Jews became moneylenders, thereby encurring the resentment of Christians who owed them money. So we get stereotypes like Shakespeare’s Shylock that strike many people as offensive (I think that’s a misreading of The Merchant of Venice), but the stereotype was based on a real cultural practice. (I expect Fortenberry to start denouncing me as an antisemite now. That would be funny.) The Amish puppy mills are similar, I think. According to the Amish religious tradition there’s nothing wrong with them, but dog fanciers don’t see it that way. They see a cruel business. I’d never say that all Amish are cruel to animals, but I do think that Amish religious beliefs allow some of them to do something (run puppy mills) that many people believe is wrong, and to do it with a clear conscience. In other words, they’re acting consistently within their own moral framework, but that framework is at odds with the morals of the larger society that they have to deal with. There are a lot of examples of these sorts of conflict between what different cultures think is moral — female circumcision in Africa, Japanese whaling, capital punishment in America (from a European point of view), etc. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

… (I expect Fortenberry to start denouncing me as an antisemite now. …

Stop your whining, Barnard. — Ken Fortenberry- can actually spell anti-Semite

Response:

In standard ROFF form, I’m now being portrayed as "anti-Amish". I’m not, of course. I’m anti-puppy-mill. It just happens that for historical and cultural reasons some Amish are very involved in the puppy mill business. That’s an easily verified fact. It’s kind of like saying that because someone doesn’t like diamonds he must be antisemitic. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R. visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Well shit!  That’ll be my last Amish joke.  I will take issue with you RW, on the matter of how amish folks treat their animals…with the exception of my 20+ yrs military and globe trotting out of Elkhart county, I have lived with these folks as my neighbors for most of my life.  They see *any* of their animals as a food source or work unit, even cats are used in the main to keep the rodents out of the grain. Therefore, especially in the case of horses, they are well trained and taken care of…who wants a sickly horse pulling the plow?  Of course, they use huge draft horses for the work, and sleek "trotters" for pulling the buggy. 20 miles from my house is a huge auction barn where they hold horse auctions every Friday, and folks come from miles around to trade with these rapscallions. As for "puppy mills", ain’t never heard of one being run by the amish. They must be a lower order of amish located in Pennsylvania. (ducking here) As to flyfishing, I’ve only witnessed one instance of that, and it was so funny I had to stop my own fishing and just watched.  This would-be flyflinger (in a small boat) would bring the rod clear back to horizontal, then with great force, bring it forward using a full overhead arm swing, to parallel with the water in front.  The resulting splash was something to behold!  Our bluegill population was safe from this guy. Frank (where’s my black hat?) Church

Response:

Because they dont see bloody monty roberts and his bad training techniques on the telly )

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Strange, then perhaps you can explain explain why Amish trained horses always bring a premium price? An Amish lady is trotting down the road in her horse and buggy when she is pulled over by a policeman. "Ma’am, I’m not going to ticket you, but I do have to issue you a warning. You have a broken reflector on your buggy." "Oh, I’ll let my husband, Jacob, know as soon as I get home." "That’s fine.  Another thing, ma’am,  I don’t like the way than one rein loops across the horse’s back and around one of his testicles. I consider that cruelty to animals. Have your husband take care of that right away!" Later that day, the lady is home telling her husband about her encounter with the cop. "Well, dear, what exactly did he say?" "He said the reflector is broken." "I can fix that in two minutes.  What else?" "I’m not sure, Jacob…something about the emergency brake…" Frank (dodging road apples) Church The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Strange, then perhaps you can explain explain why Amish trained horses always bring a premium price?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An Amish lady is trotting down the road in her horse and buggy when she is pulled over by a policeman. "Ma’am, I’m not going to ticket you, but I do have to issue you a warning. You have a broken reflector on your buggy." "Oh, I’ll let my husband, Jacob, know as soon as I get home." "That’s fine.  Another thing, ma’am,  I don’t like the way than one rein loops across the horse’s back and around one of his testicles. I consider that cruelty to animals. Have your husband take care of that right away!" Later that day, the lady is home telling her husband about her encounter with the cop. "Well, dear, what exactly did he say?" "He said the reflector is broken." "I can fix that in two minutes.  What else?" "I’m not sure, Jacob…something about the emergency brake…" Frank (dodging road apples) Church The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R. Geeze. Way to let the air out of a good joke, steve…

Geez, I thought the C&R thing was at least a little comic relief. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

An Amish lady is trotting down the road in her horse and buggy when she is pulled over by a policeman. "Ma’am, I’m not going to ticket you, but I do have to issue you a warning. You have a broken reflector on your buggy." "Oh, I’ll let my husband, Jacob, know as soon as I get home." "That’s fine.  Another thing, ma’am,  I don’t like the way than one rein loops across the horse’s back and around one of his testicles. I consider that cruelty to animals. Have your husband take care of that right away!" Later that day, the lady is home telling her husband about her encounter with the cop. "Well, dear, what exactly did he say?" "He said the reflector is broken." "I can fix that in two minutes.  What else?" "I’m not sure, Jacob…something about the emergency brake…" Frank (dodging road apples) Church

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An Amish lady is trotting down the road in her horse and buggy when she is pulled over by a policeman. "Ma’am, I’m not going to ticket you, but I do have to issue you a warning. You have a broken reflector on your buggy." "Oh, I’ll let my husband, Jacob, know as soon as I get home." "That’s fine.  Another thing, ma’am,  I don’t like the way than one rein loops across the horse’s back and around one of his testicles. I consider that cruelty to animals. Have your husband take care of that right away!" Later that day, the lady is home telling her husband about her encounter with the cop. "Well, dear, what exactly did he say?" "He said the reflector is broken." "I can fix that in two minutes.  What else?" "I’m not sure, Jacob…something about the emergency brake…" Frank (dodging road apples) Church The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R.

Geeze. Way to let the air out of a good joke, steve… /daytripper (Get laid or something. Soon. ;^)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An Amish lady is trotting down the road in her horse and buggy when she is pulled over by a policeman. "Ma’am, I’m not going to ticket you, but I do have to issue you a warning. You have a broken reflector on your buggy." "Oh, I’ll let my husband, Jacob, know as soon as I get home." "That’s fine.  Another thing, ma’am,  I don’t like the way than one rein loops across the horse’s back and around one of his testicles. I consider that cruelty to animals. Have your husband take care of that right away!" Later that day, the lady is home telling her husband about her encounter with the cop. "Well, dear, what exactly did he say?" "He said the reflector is broken." "I can fix that in two minutes.  What else?" "I’m not sure, Jacob…something about the emergency brake…" Frank (dodging road apples) Church

The Amish have many admirable qualities, but the way they treat their animals isn’t one of them, in my opinion. For one thing, they are notorious for running puppy mills. As a dog fancier, I despise that. It’s also common wisdom that you should never even consider buying a horse from an Amish. They treat animals strictly as economic units. Maybe some of you guys in ROFF think that’s OK, but I don’t. It’s fine with me when it comes to chickens and pigs, but I draw the line as dogs and horses. If there are any devout Amish flyfisherman I’m confident in predicting that they don’t practice C&R. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a ‘94 short-shart Gamefisher (Force?) that’s been running great since I picked it up at the beginning of tge year. However, the last time I was out,I get a "clack, clack, clack" as I was pulling on the starter rope.  I pushed the trans lever back and forth a couple of times, and it started right up with no"clack" at all. I motored to my fishing spot, cut the motor, making sure I was in neutral, then fished.  When I was ready to pull up, I once again went to start the motor and got the "clack" again.  I was once again able to get rid of the clack by moving the trans lever in and out of gear. Does anyone recognize my problem? Do I have a problem? Will I soon have a problem. Thanks…

There is a safety device system to prevent starting the motor in gear located on the flywheel. As the motor gets older parts get worn and these devices don’t quite work as they use to. The clack clack is a little plastic lever thats connected to the gear shift thats half connecting with the fly wheel. Moving the gear lever as you do helps to put it in the right position. I sugest that you take the cover off the engine and observe how this mechnisium works. Its located on the top of the motor at the back (spark plug end) work the gear lever and you will see the lever and how it works. There is another reason you should know about this is because sometimes the mechinisum jams and you can not pull the cord. If this occurs you take the cover off and manually move the lever out from the flywheel. These safety devices usually fail after a few years (regardless of make). If you are really keen you could set about adjusting it. You will find however that there is a spot on he gear lever where the lever is in the out position. Once you know the spot its just a matter of remembering to put it there before starting the motor. Best of luck Silver fox

Response:

I have a ‘94 short-shart Gamefisher (Force?) that’s been running great since I picked it up at the beginning of tge year. However, the last time I was out,I get a "clack, clack, clack" as I was pulling on the starter rope.  I pushed the trans lever back and forth a couple of times, and it started right up with no"clack" at all. I motored to my fishing spot, cut the motor, making sure I was in neutral, then fished.  When I was ready to pull up, I once again went to start the motor and got the "clack" again.  I was once again able to get rid of the clack by moving the trans lever in and out of gear. Does anyone recognize my problem? Do I have a problem? Will I soon have a problem. Thanks…

Response:

Question:

Does any one know it? Thanks, Nick Pujic

Response:

Does any one know it?

Hi Nick, He has at least three that I know of.  I usually use the following to reach him:                                   Good Fishing,                                           Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools Mt. Shasta Fly Fishing Schools http://www.thegrid.net/flyfish

Response:

Question:

I would love to learn how to fly fish – my son gave me a fly rod and reel for fathers day 3 years ago.  With it came some line and a leader – someone told me I need some backing.  What is that for?  How do I learn to cast? What about tying flys on my line?  Can you help? Thanks

Hi Barry I think the best way to learn to fly fish is from a friend and joining your local fly fishing club is a good way to find that friend. Call the Federation of Fly Fishers (406-585-7592) and see if there is a club near you. If none are avaiable your local fly shop is a good place to start. An hour or two invested in casting lesson with a professonal can save you years of frustration trying to learn by yourself. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress. — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Catalog,Tips & Tricks, Fishing Reports, & NeverSink at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

Response:

I would love to learn how to fly fish – my son gave me a fly rod and reel for fathers day 3 years ago.  With it came some line and a leader – someone told me I need some backing.  What is that for?  How do I learn to cast? What about tying flys on my line?  Can you help? Thanks

Response:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I would love to learn how to fly fish – my son gave me a fly rod and reel for fathers day 3 years ago.

Was it for Fathers’ Day because it came without documentation; you know, real men don’t read directions anyway. . .  With it came some line and a leader – someone told me I need some backing.  What is that for?

Backing is a small diameter, lightweight woven line that gets attached to the arbor of the spool of your reel, then tied onto your fly line. If you put just the fly line on the spool, you’ll see there’s probably space left over at the outer edges of the spool.  The backing takes up this extra space, but from the bottom.  The backing also serves as extra line in case you catch a really big fish (or a truck) and all your fly line gets taken from the spool.  Thus the phrase: "Man, that fish took me into my backing."  Lacking some sort of booklet giving you the capacity of your reel using different line sizes–oh, didn’t I mention fly line comes in various diameters and lengths?–take the reel and fly line down to your local fly shop, and ask them nicely if they’ll put the backing and fly line on the reel for you.[Image] They’ll be glad to do it, because you’re going to be buying lots of other stuff there, either now or later, but it’s inevitable.  How do I learn to cast? What about tying flys on my line?  Can you help?

I can’t help, but there are several books that can.  While you’re down at your local fly shop (not the fishing dept. at Walmart, please) look over their selection.  I have heard somewhere that flyfishing has the most extensive literature of any blood sport, and I half believe it. After 20 years, still the best book for absolute tyros is "The Curtis Creek Manifesto" by Richard Sheridan.  Don’t let the comic book format put you off.  The book addresses just about every topic for which the beginner has questions.  It’ll hold you for a couple of seasons. And, of course, for the most experts per square byte, don’t forget this newsgroup, ROFF. Good luck, Anglerboy — Trout fear me, Women want me. http://www.midtown.net/~angler/ Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITEI would love to learn how to fly fish – my son gave me a fly rod and reel <BRfor fathers day 3 years ago.</BLOCKQUOTE Was it for Fathers’ Day because it came without documentation; you know, real men don’t read directions anyway. . . <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE&nbsp;With it came some line and a leader – someone <BRtold me I need some backing.&nbsp; What is that for?</BLOCKQUOTE Backing is a small diameter, lightweight woven line that gets attached to the arbor of the spool of your reel, then tied onto your fly line.&nbsp; If you put just the fly line on the spool, you’ll see there’s probably space left over at the outer edges of the spool.&nbsp; The backing takes up this extra space, but from the bottom.&nbsp; The backing also serves as extra line in case you catch a really big fish (or a truck) and all your fly line gets taken from the spool.&nbsp; Thus the phrase: "Man, that fish took me into my backing."&nbsp; Lacking some sort of booklet giving you the capacity of your reel using different line sizes–oh, didn’t I mention fly line comes in various diameters and lengths?–take the reel and fly line down to your local fly shop, and ask them nicely if they’ll <PThey’ll be glad to do it, because you’re going to be buying lots of other stuff there, either now or later, but it’s inevitable. <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE&nbsp;How do I learn to cast? <BRWhat about tying flys on my line?&nbsp; Can you help?</BLOCKQUOTE I can’t help, but there are several books that can.&nbsp; While you’re down at your local fly shop (not the fishing dept. at Walmart, please) look over their selection.&nbsp; I have heard somewhere that flyfishing has the most extensive literature of any blood sport, and I half believe it.&nbsp; After 20 years, still the best book for absolute tyros is "The Curtis Creek Manifesto" by Richard Sheridan.&nbsp; Don’t let the comic book format put you off.&nbsp; The book addresses just about every topic for which the beginner has questions.&nbsp; It’ll hold you for a couple of seasons. <PAnd, of course, for the most experts per square byte, don’t forget this newsgroup, ROFF. <PGood luck, <BRAnglerboy <P– <BRTrout fear me, <BRWomen want me. <BR<A HREF="http://www.midtown.net/~angler/"http://www.midtown.net/~angler/</A <BR&nbsp;</HTML Content-Type: image/jpeg Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="C:tempnsmail8H.jpeg" <encoded_portion_removed FFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQB//2Q==

Response:

I would love to learn how to fly fish – my son gave me a fly rod and reel for fathers day 3 years ago.  With it came some line and a leader – someone told me I need some backing.  What is that for?

Strong cheap line between the reel core and the expensive fly line (1) so the fly line does not get too curly by being wound up tight, (2) in case you hook such a big fish that he can pull out all the fly line before you play and land him.  How do I learn to cast?

As posted elsewhere, club membership is the single best bet. If locally unavailable, there are excellent books: look in the library for Joe Brooks. There are also videos nowadays, about both casting technique and how to interpret the water. What about tying flys on my line?  

Knots are needed to attach: — fly hook to fine nylon tippet, e.g. turle knot, — tippet to heavier nylon leader, e.g. blood knot, — leader to fly line  ) both use the — fly line to backing ) needle or nail knot — backing to reel. Nylon (leader material) requires special knots because it is so slippery. Good guidebooks show in pictures how to tie them. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Question:

I’m heading to St. Petersburg in late june and would like to tie some flies up.  Any suggestions for redfish, small tarpon and snook on the flats and backwaters would be appreciated.  Hook size and patterns.  Patterns that would catch two or more of the species would be preferable.  Thanks for your help. — Jay

Response:

I’m heading to St. Petersburg in late june and would like to tie some flies up.  Any suggestions for redfish, small tarpon and snook on the flats and backwaters would be appreciated.  Hook size and patterns.  Patterns that would catch two or more of the species would be preferable.  Thanks for your help. — Jay

Jay, I just came back from Sanibel and had a lot of luck with the following: Del’s Merkin – Tan – Redfish Big Eye Deciever – White w/Brown back – Snook/Tarpon Chartruese/White Deciever – Snook/Tarpon Chartruese Clouser – Snook/Tarpon I’d add a shrimp fly or two to the list and also make sure to have a small crab imitator for any permit. BTW, I never go anywhere without decievers and clousers.  They’re my "confidence" flies.  Also weedless patterns help, especially for snook under mangroves and dockes. — Mark N. Cahill For E-mail remove the _Remove_This from the reply to address. http://www.geocities.com/Baja/3297

Response:

I’m heading to St. Petersburg in late june and would like to tie some flies up.  Any suggestions for redfish, small tarpon and snook on the flats and backwaters would be appreciated.  Hook size and patterns.  Patterns that would catch two or more of the species would be preferable.  Thanks for your help. — Jay

I would recommend a Chico’s Seaducer in size 2 to 1/0 to 3" in yellow or white with a red collar and a little flash for snook and tarpon. There are many different patterns to try. Try some chartreuse or white poppers in the mangroves for snook and tarpon. I would try to get a fly fishing  guide with boat for one day. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

Response:

Question:

I need advice. What is the best big streamer (3 in.) for fishing a Connecticut alewife lake for Browns?

Response:

I need advice. What is the best big streamer (3 in.) for fishing a Connecticut alewife lake for Browns?

Try a recipe for the Giant Bunker fly described in any saltwater fly patterns book. Alewifes look remarkably close to Menhaden (Bunker). Herring immitations should also be good. Hint: use Bozo hair from Elite. Jose

Response:

I need advice. What is the best big streamer (3 in.) for fishing a Connecticut alewife lake for Browns?

Well, having fished for Northern and Muskie this last summer up in Lake Of The Woods, I no longer thing of a 3" streamer as a ‘big’ fly. Kinda small, actually! <grin Anyway, go with "old reliable" – a Clouser Minnow, with a grey back and white belly. 3" is only about a #4-4XL hook. Use either bucktail or, if you want something REALLY flashy, silver and white Flashabou _dubbing_. They’ll do the job! — Joe Ellis       o/~ The Synthetic Filker o/~ |  TesserAct Studios ()X  Darwin (;       Now on the Web at      | Fairfield, OH 45018 //~~~LL~~~~LL~ http://shell.idt.net/~ellis69 |New Dimensions In Filk! Unsolicited commercial E-mail will be proofread at US$25 hr/2 hr min.

Response:

Try a traditional little brown trout or something like a Silver Doctor. Okay, I’m out of date. — — Louis Bignami Visit http://www.finefishing.com Over 400 articles! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need advice. What is the best big streamer (3 in.) for fishing a Connecticut alewife lake for Browns?

Response:

Try a Gray Ghost.  It’s deadly. MZ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I need advice. What is the best big streamer (3 in.) for fishing a Connecticut alewife lake for Browns?

Response:

I don’t know about where you live but a big brown egg sucking leech (heavily weighted) with some yellow maribou mixed in with the brown/black maribou for the tail is my FAVORITE spring-time brown trout fly. I need advice. What is the best big streamer (3 in.) for fishing a Connecticut alewife lake for Browns

– Brian D. Nelson, Missoula, Montana Montana Flyfishing and Hunting Outfitter http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm http://www.montana.com/dno/hunt.htm

Response:

Agree about grey ghosts. Also, try a "beer-belly" zonker in white.

Response:

Question:

After reading this group for a couple of years it has become clear that a lot of people either have much more disposable income than I do, or that my priorities are skewed somehow.  At any rate, I’m looking for a new rod to replace the old glass Fenwick I’ve fished for 15+ years, but I don’t want to shell out $300.  Or even $200.  Less than $100 would be great–

Well, Derek, there is both bad news and good news for you. Yes, there was a time long ago when it was possible to fool a trout and enjoy a "quality angling experience" (QAE to those of us in the industry) with a $100 rod, but those days are long behind us. As we approach the turn of a century, studies show that there are very few trout in today’s streams that will engage anglers who use inexpensive rods. Sure, some anglers will tell you that when it comes to rod blanks, "plastic is plastic", but someone who really knows the industry will answer "yes, but some plastics are more plastic than others". Having arrived at this dilemma, your choice becomes clear. The good news for you, Derek, is that you are unlikely to find many rods for less than $200, making it much easier for you to avoid an inexpensive flyrod by simply paying more money for an expensive one. Moreover, a knowledgeable rod merchant will surely do all he can to guide you toward the most expensive alternative to an inexpensive purchase. Spinolio

Response:

Want I want is simple, an 8.5′ 5wt rod that will cast well enough to keep me happy and won’t fall apart. The St. Croix Pro Graphite rods have gotten very good reviews, I often hear them being called the best value in fly fishing. I think cost $75 or so. St. Croix Imperials and Redington Red Start rods are also supposed to be nice, they cost between $100 and $150.

Several people have made this recommendation.  The problem is, there are no fly shops anywhere near me.  The only place in town with fly gear sells G. Loomis rods (at list) to yuppies, and little else (it’s just a sporting goods store).  Anyone know of a good mail order source?  Some place with a friendly return policy? Test cast them all and let me know how it comes out!

Can anyone recommend a fly shop (or a good sporting retailer) in Indianapolis or Louisville?  I usually wait until I’m back in Oregon/Idaho visiting family to buy anything of significance (Kaufman’s Streamborne in PDX, and Intermountain Arms in Boise). — Derek R. Larson           Indiana University       Department of History   "Eastward I go by force, but Westward I go free!"  -H. D. Thoreau

Response:

Not quite….the Legend Series St Croix is 42 million mods, while the less expensive Imperial is 32 million modulus, and is a somewhat slower action rod.

I like a slower action, and fortunately (for me) the slower rods can be less expensive (unless you get into split cane, but that’s a whole other topic).   When you’re rod shopping, one method that works pretty well is to not only test cast the rod (or rods) you’re thinking of buying, but to also test a more expensive rod, so you have something for comparison.  You may even find that the less expensive rod is more to your liking.  Find the rod that is right for you, and to hell with what you’re "supposed" to prefer.  The emperor has no clothes. CQ

Response:

Rick Fletcher wrote to: [snip] try and build from a blank.  It’s worth the time and money saved, just like tying.

Interesting idea. How much would it cost to build my own $300 rod? How much is saved? bird

Response:

Several people have made this recommendation.  The problem is, there are no fly shops anywhere near me.  The only place in town with fly gear sells G. Loomis rods (at list) to yuppies, and little else (it’s just a sporting goods store).  Anyone know of a good mail order source?  Some place with a friendly return policy?

Ask the ownner if you can look at his gear catalogues – he is visited weekly by fishing gear salesmen who would gladly sell him anything he wanted to buy.  He probably keeps the catalogues in the back office.  Ask when the local salesman (or saleswoman) is coming through, and you can ask them about their lines.  If the guy won’t help you do this, boycott the store.

Response:

Its my understanding that all of the St. Croix series use the same graphite.  Thus no difference in performance.

I looked over both the Pro and the Imperial.  About the only differences that I noticed were the blank and the performance.   Both were good rods, but IMHO, the Imperial was much better, and only a little bit more expensive. CQ

Response:

Yes, there was a time long ago when it was possible to fool a trout and enjoy a "quality angling experience" (QAE to those of us in the industry) with a $100 rod, but those days are long behind us. As we approach the turn of a century, studies show that there are very few trout in today’s streams that will engage anglers who use inexpensive rods.

Mr. Spinolio:  I really must disagree with your comments about the price of a rod significantly impacting on an anglers success rate.  With respect to the U.S.A., I’ll bow to your experience; but in my area of Canada, I don’t agree that this correlation applies.  Granted, we don’t get the pressure on our streams that Montana residents do; but I happily take large browns on the most heavily fished river in Ontario with both my Sage graphite, an old Algonquin "feralite" and a cane rod left to me by my father that’s older than Moses. IMHO an angler adapts his skills to his tackle.  It’s no doubt easier to fish a $5000.00 custom made bamboo than an old glass rod…but if you can’t afford the custom, buy the best you can afford and go fishing.  I’ve never known a fish to check the price tag on a rod before inhaling a nymph.    Here’s a suggestion for Derek that may allow him to buy good tackle for a fraction of the cost of new.  Go to your local fly fishing school, (there’s probably one near by…they’re popping up like mushrooms after a spring rain) and ask them if they have any rods for sale.  You’ll be amazed.  Especially if you offer cash and don’t ask for a receipt.  Then you’ll have quality, cheaply, and you can worry about your backcast as opposed to the cost of your rod.   Jim Ward Twin Willow Farm Home of good horses, fine whiskey and great wild trout.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Want I want is simple, an 8.5′ 5wt rod that will cast well enough to keep me happy and won’t fall apart. The St. Croix Pro Graphite rods have gotten very good reviews, I often hear them being called the best value in fly fishing. I think cost $75 or so. St. Croix Imperials and Redington Red Start rods are also supposed to be nice, they cost between $100 and $150. Several people have made this recommendation.  The problem is, there are no fly shops anywhere near me.  The only place in town with fly gear sells G. Loomis rods (at list) to yuppies, and little else (it’s just a sporting goods store).  Anyone know of a good mail order source?  Some place with a friendly return policy? Test cast them all and let me know how it comes out! Can anyone recommend a fly shop (or a good sporting retailer) in Indianapolis or Louisville?  I usually wait until I’m back in Oregon/Idaho visiting family to buy anything of significance (Kaufman’s Streamborne in PDX, and Intermountain Arms in Boise). — Derek R. Larson           Indiana University       Department of History   "Eastward I go by force, but Westward I go free!"  -H. D. Thoreau

There is a recent Orvis shop up nin the Keystone area; nice folks.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …I’m looking for a new rod to replace the old glass Fenwick I’ve fished for 15+ years, but I don’t want to shell out $300.  Or even $200.  Less than $100 would be great… Check out the St. Croix Imperial graphite.   They list for $120, which includes a rod case, and lifetime guarantee. I just bought one (a 9′ 4/5wt); cast it and a Diamondback side by side, and thought the St. Croix was better.  They also make a Pro series, that costs less, but for the performance, the Imperial is a better buy. CQ Its my understanding that all of the St. Croix series use the same graphite.  Thus no difference in performance.  But I agree, they are a great buy. Jim

Hi Jim,      Not quite….the Legend Series St Croix is 42 million mods, while the less expensive      Imperial is 32 million modulus, and is a somewhat slower action rod. I own their      4 piece 5/6 travel rod, and the little 7′ 3 wt, and believe St Croix is one of the best buys      on the market. connection with the company,      just a satisfied customer. Regards,

Response:

Derek, another suggestion:  I just recently bought a 8.5, 5 wt rod from Orvis.   It is part of a relatively new series of less-expensive rods, called the Clearwater series.  Its a good rod, similar to their more expensive rods, and you can definitely mail order it from Orvis. Steve

Response:

…I’m looking for a new rod to replace the old glass Fenwick I’ve fished for 15+ years, but I don’t want to shell out $300.  Or even $200.  Less than $100 would be great… Check out the St. Croix Imperial graphite.   They list for $120, which includes a rod case, and lifetime guarantee. I just bought one (a 9′ 4/5wt); cast it and a Diamondback side by side, and thought the St. Croix was better.  They also make a Pro series, that costs less, but for the performance, the Imperial is a better buy. CQ

Its my understanding that all of the St. Croix series use the same graphite.  Thus no difference in performance.  But I agree, they are a great buy. Jim

Response:

: After reading this group for a couple of years it has become clear that a : lot of people either have much more disposable income than I do, or that : my priorities are skewed somehow.  At any rate, I’m looking for a new rod [snip] Sheesh Derek, you’ve been around here long enough to have heard all this before.  Are you just trying to bait a war? I suggest you try Lamiglass and Reddington.  And I strongly recommend you try and build from a blank.  It’s worth the time and money saved, just like tying. — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

Response:

…I’m looking for a new rod to replace the old glass Fenwick I’ve fished for 15+ years, but I don’t want to shell out $300.  Or even $200.  Less than $100 would be great… Check out the St. Croix Imperial graphite. They list for $120, which includes a rod case, and lifetime guarantee. I just bought one (a 9′ 4/5wt); cast it and a Diamondback side by side, and thought the St. Croix was better.  They also make a Pro series, that costs less, but for the performance, the Imperial is a better buy. CQ

THIS IS GOOD news to hear, for me. — George Gehrke/President Gehrke’s World’s Best Fly Fishing Products Asotin, WA 99402 509-243-4100  FAX 4644

Response:

Derek I own three Lamiglass rods that have served me well for quite a long time. Cabelas carried them as recently as last year for under $100 but I don’t see them is this year’s catalog. They may still have some if you call them. Some flyshops may have a few left as well. Also, you might consider building your own rod. You can control the parts of it that are most important to you but still keep the cost down. You don’t really need, IMHO, the expensive wrapping platforms etc. Dave

I allways thought the best inexpensive rod was the one you could afford to buy.

Response:

After reading this group for a couple of years it has become clear that a lot of people either have much more disposable income than I do, or that my priorities are skewed somehow.  At any rate, I’m looking for a new rod to replace the old glass Fenwick I’ve fished for 15+ years, -Derek

Hi Derek Most fly shops have rental equipment and often sell that equipment a the end of the season. Check with a few and see if you can’t get a bargain. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

Derek I own three Lamiglass rods that have served me well for quite a long time. Cabelas carried them as recently as last year for under $100 but I don’t see them is this year’s catalog. They may still have some if you call them. Some flyshops may have a few left as well. Also, you might consider building your own rod. You can control the parts of it that are most important to you but still keep the cost down. You don’t really need, IMHO, the expensive wrapping platforms etc. Dave

Response:

Derek, I am in the same boat as you financially. The kids, house, dogs, make it tough to shell out $300 on a rod. I have a post on this board about the Cabela’s Fish Eagle Traditional rod, 8′6" 6wt for $96. We’ll see what the response is. There’s a brand out there called Hi-Tech (HT) that are supposed to be good rods at great prices, but I can’t find any retail outlets that stock them.  

You can afford a dog!?!?!?  You lucky so and so.  Had to eat ours last year!  This year we had to rent a used turkey for christmas!  Bloody luxury. Mike

Response:

Want I want is simple, an 8.5′ 5wt rod that will cast well enough to keep me happy and won’t fall apart.

The St. Croix Pro Graphite rods have gotten very good reviews, I often hear them being called the best value in fly fishing. I think cost $75 or so. St. Croix Imperials and Redington Red Start rods are also supposed to be nice, they cost between $100 and $150. Test cast them all and let me know how it comes out! Tight lines, Tom Chandler Tom Chandler   "When in doubt, have two guys come through the door with guns."                                               –Raymond Chandler

Response:

…I’m looking for a new rod to replace the old glass Fenwick I’ve fished for 15+ years, but I don’t want to shell out $300.  Or even $200.  Less than $100 would be great…

Check out the St. Croix Imperial graphite.   They list for $120, which includes a rod case, and lifetime guarantee. I just bought one (a 9′ 4/5wt); cast it and a Diamondback side by side, and thought the St. Croix was better.  They also make a Pro series, that costs less, but for the performance, the Imperial is a better buy. CQ

Response:

Hi Derek- Have you considered buying a used rod? There are several sites on the internet that have "classified" areas where people sell used stuff at much lower prices than new. The virtual flyshop has one such area, but there are others. I recently bought a used tying vise and sold my old one in this way. You may be able to pick up a $300 rod for $100. Check it out. Good luck! Steve Rosenblum

Response:

Want I want is simple, an 8.5′ 5wt rod that will cast well enough to keep me happy and won’t fall apart……entry-level Orvis outfit (Clearwater 865) looks okay, but is there anything else to compare in the $100 price range?  While home over the holidays I looked at some new rods "made" by an outfit called Northwest-X or somesuch in Lake Oswego, Oregon– they were at GI Joes, about $80 for a 5wt 8.5".  Didn’t cast one though.  Anyone familar with that line? Thanks for any tips– please post responses rather than email so all can comment. -Derek —

Greetings Derek:         I just started flyfishing about a year ago, so take my advice with a grain of salt.  I started out with a 2-piece 5wt, 8.5ft, that I got as a package deal from LL Bean.  I more recently purchased a 4-piece, 4wt, 7.5ft travel rod from them as well.  The 5wt ran me $200, reel and all; the 4wt, $110, reel, case and all.  Bean also sells the rod and reel set they use in teaching their classes, for a reasonable price (in the $100-150 range). They may not be the greatest rods, given other people’s comments at this site, but you can get a medium or fast-ish action rod from them, that are all lifetime guaranteed.  I have really enjoyed my two rods, and they certainly got me out and fishing with a minimum investment.  Hope this helps you out. Dan Johnson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Derek R. Larson           Indiana University       Department of History   "Eastward I go by force, but Westward I go free!"  -H. D. Thoreau

Response:

Check out the Cabela’s catalog, their own are pretty good, as are the St Croix’s and Reddingtons, but in that 8′6" range don’t count out the inexpensive Pfluger (also in the catalog)  Call them if you don’t have the current FF catalog 1/800-237-4444 I am not related in any way to them, but at the low end of the price spectrum, where I started, they have yet to disappoint me.  All of their house brand equip and gear has served me well. jg

Response:

Derek, I am in the same boat as you financially. The kids, house, dogs, make it tough to shell out $300 on a rod. I have a post on this board about the Cabela’s Fish Eagle Traditional rod, 8′6" 6wt for $96. We’ll see what the response is. There’s a brand out there called Hi-Tech (HT) that are supposed to be good rods at great prices, but I can’t find any retail outlets that stock them.  

Response:

Want I want is simple, an 8.5′ 5wt rod that will cast well enough to keep me happy and won’t fall apart.

Under $100, consider the Cortland GRF-1000.  Under $200, consider the Sage Discovery (Model 580 DS).  Doubtless there are other good choices too.  Try to actually cast the rod before buying it, to ensure that you’ll be happy with its performance. Woods Hole, MA   USA

Response:

After reading this group for a couple of years it has become clear that a lot of people either have much more disposable income than I do, or that my priorities are skewed somehow.  At any rate, I’m looking for a new rod to replace the old glass Fenwick I’ve fished for 15+ years, but I don’t want to shell out $300.  Or even $200.  Less than $100 would be great– I don’t get to fish nearly as much in Indiana as I did growing up in Oregon (all my steelhead gear, all my packable trout gear, etc. etc. is still out there collecting dust).   Want I want is simple, an 8.5′ 5wt rod that will cast well enough to keep me happy and won’t fall apart.  My wife has a Cabella’s rod (the Sweetwater?) that was given to her as a gift; it’s not great, but I often use it rather than the 8wt. Fenwick I brought out here with me.  The stores around here either sell junk (Eagle Claw, Pflueger) or G. Loomis, so it may have to be mail order. The entry-level Orvis outfit (Clearwater 865) looks okay, but is there anything else to compare in the $100 price range?  While home over the holidays I looked at some new rods "made" by an outfit called Northwest-X or somesuch in Lake Oswego, Oregon– they were at GI Joes, about $80 for a 5wt 8.5".  Didn’t cast one though.  Anyone familar with that line? Thanks for any tips– please post responses rather than email so all can comment. -Derek — Derek R. Larson           Indiana University       Department of History   "Eastward I go by force, but Westward I go free!"  -H. D. Thoreau

Response:

Question:

I’m looking for a source–mill or distributor–for soft nylon Catch & Release net mesh.   If you happn to know where I can find some, I’d much

I would go to garage sales and look fornets with 30-40 year old bags which almost guarantee release. TimW

Response:

7/8/96 I’m looking for a source–mill or distributor–for soft nylon Catch & Release net mesh.   If you happn to know where I can find some, I’d much appreciate an e-mail.   Thanks.

Hi MRiffler If you have access to the Web go to the Thomas Register, a listing of manufacturers in the US.  They are at http://www.thomasregister.com.  If it’s manufactured in this country you show be able to find it there. Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (96 catalog)

Response:

7/8/96 I’m looking for a source–mill or distributor–for soft nylon Catch & Release net mesh.   If you happn to know where I can find some, I’d much appreciate an e-mail.   Thanks.

Response:

Give Hook and Hackle in Plattsburg, NY a call. Glenn Manchester, VT

Response:

I’m looking for a source–mill or distributor–for soft nylon Catch & Release net mesh.   If you happn to know where I can find some, I’d much

Most people concerned about softness of net mesh would say there is no such thing as soft nylon.  To minimize damage to fish coating you want either cotton or polyester/polyamide. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

I went to the Outdoor Fabric Store where I found bolts of the nylon mesh used for sewing vents and liners for the outdoor jackets. I made up a nice rectangular bag on the sewing machine and fixed it to my old aluminum net frame with small cable ties.  Cheap, looks good, and it is soft.  

Response:

Question:

 ANY ONE FLY FISHING THERE LATLEY I’LL BE 6/8/96 TO 6/14/96  ANY SPECIAL TRICKS. OR FLY’S, DRY OR WET. BY THE WAY IT’S  IN NORTHERN PLUMAS NATIONAL FOREST. –

Response:

 ANY ONE FLY FISHING THERE LATLEY I’LL BE 6/8/96 TO 6/14/96  ANY SPECIAL TRICKS. OR FLY’S, DRY OR WET. BY THE WAY IT’S  IN NORTHERN PLUMAS NATIONAL FOREST.

Response:

ANY ONE FLY FISHING THERE LATLEY I’LL BE 6/8/96 TO 6/14/96 ANY SPECIAL TRICKS. OR FLY’S, DRY OR WET. BY THE WAY IT’S IN NORTHERN PLUMAS NATIONAL FOREST.

Charlie Smith, the local tier and fly fisherman at Buck’s Lake, uses a Deer Hair Fly ( Humpy ) and the Rio Grand King dry fly in the streams.  He uses an Olive Wooly Worm in the lakes.  I would also have some #14/16 Adams Paraduns for the lakes. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

Response:

Question:

I took up fly fishing last summer, during a trip to Newfoundland, and now the family can’t imagine any other kind of fishing. I have a few questions. Lot’s of places we fish seem to have tons of mosquitos.  Why are there so few flies that look like mosquitos (or am I missing something). In Lappland this summer, I got something called a "musta polar tohtori" (black polar doctor), which looked a bit like a mosquito, but there don’t seem to be many.  Do fish not like mosquitoes?  My wife’s theory is to the effect that mosquitoes are so common that fish are bored with them, and would rather go for something more unusual and tasty. The second question:  We took our fly rods to Finnish Lappland this summer (around Kilpisjarvi), but had no luck in the lakes around there, nor around Yllas either.  We tried muddler minnows, dry flies, streamers, wet flies, and good good at casting, but didn’t pick up anything (though some of the lakes are stocked with char).  It was fun anyway, but I’m wondering if anybody has tips on fishing the Northern Finnish, Swedish and Norwegian lakes and streams. Finally, closer to home, I’m looking for good trout streams in Wisconsin or N. Illinois, within 3-4 hours of Chicago.  I’m not looking for anybody to give away their secret spots, but if there are some well know good spots I’d appreciate the advice.  I like to fish in places that are quiet and away from busy roads and noisy power boats (and far, far away from jet skis!). Thanks, Ray Pierrehumbert

Response:

Lot’s of places we fish seem to have tons of mosquitos.  Why are there so few flies that look like mosquitos (or am I missing something).

If trout get a shot at mosquitoes, I’m sure they’d eat them.  However, the life cycle of a mosquito pretty well takes place in water which trout cannot survive.  Mosquitoes hatch in stagnant water that is usually warmer than trout prefer and has little if any dissolved oxygen.   Not nearly enough dissolved oxygen for trout to survive.  "Mosquito wrigglers" use a tube that  penetrates the surface film to respirate. The are actually air breathing in this immature form.  That is why they used oil on the stagnant water to eliminate the malaria problems in the first half of the century.  The mosquito tubes couldn’t penetrate the oil film and they died from lack of oxygen. They hatch from stagnant water into that blood-sucking beast we all know, and they lay eggs back into the same stagnant water they came from. The attractions for them around the water are the warm blooded animals that frequent the area.  Since all animals need water, that’s a good supply of blood.  But they are not readily available for ingestion by trout. By the way, that "mosquito pattern" that most fly shops sell is a great mayfly imitation and works well in trout waters.                                                     Hope this helps,                                                              Dan

Response: