Question:

You can say that again!  I don’t suppose anyone gets out as much as they would like.  

I didn’t mean you, I meant daytripper. The HWMNBN stuff is probably hard to follow if you’re new around here (aka still sane). <g — Charlie…

Response:

You can say that again!  I don’t suppose anyone gets out as much as they would like.   I didn’t mean you, I meant daytripper. The HWMNBN stuff is probably hard to follow if you’re new around here (aka still sane). <g

He’s even a little hard to follow if you’re grizzled and insane

Response:

(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)…

Ah, the trotting of the canards… I used to be a fan until that night in Marseilles when I had a grand on a mallard to place at 12-1.  It was running neck and neck with the leader until the home stretch, where the goddam thing came up lame and couldn’t finish the race.  That’s when I realized the whole thing was fixed. Kevin, still disillusioned.

Response:

(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… Ah, the trotting of the canards… I used to be a fan until that night in Marseilles when I had a grand on a mallard to place at 12-1.  It was running neck and neck with the leader until the home stretch, where the goddam thing came up lame and couldn’t finish the race.  That’s when I realized the whole thing was fixed. Kevin, still disillusioned.

Still, it’s better than running with the canards at Pamplona……boy could get culled doing that.    :( Wolfgang

Response:

That’s when I realized the whole thing was fixed.

And why most just lope their mule… <g — Charlie…

Response:

I can only say that nothing I have read would make me reluctant to post to ROFF.  As a matter of fact, I would expect any group interested in Fly fishing to have a disproportionate number of curmudgeons. Welcome, Jim!  Everyone here (with the exception of a troll) has been exceedingly kind and helpful to me, despite the fact I am very new to fly fishing

Geez! All of this good karma made me post again, after having nuked myself pretty much out of existence here other than lurking – Sandy, if you can put up with what you have, then I see no reason for me keep lurking, especially since the salmon and steelheading is going so well here in Southern Oregon – a buddy of mine landed a 33" (28lb +/-) hen chinook on a 6wt Saturday (#6 Beadhead CDC Prince), gave one of the flies to a guy just upstream, then helped that guy land what had to be a 32-35 lb jack… and they were fishing for steelhead. Jim, Welcome. -Gus http://gstrandesigns.tripod.com/flyfishing.htm

Response:

Geez! All of this good karma made me post again, after having nuked myself pretty much out of existence here other than lurking – Sandy, if you can put up with what you have, then I see no reason for me keep lurking, especially since the salmon and steelheading is going so well here in Southern Oregon – a buddy of mine landed a 33" (28lb +/-) hen chinook on a 6wt Saturday (#6 Beadhead CDC Prince), gave one of the flies to a guy just upstream, then helped that guy land what had to be a 32-35 lb jack… and they were fishing for steelhead.

Cool!  Then we’ll expect TRs and maybe even photos posted to alt.binaries.pictures.fishing very soon.  :^)  Welcome back, Gus.  Don’t sweat the small stuff.  Fishing and fun and friends are what’s important, and there’s plenty of that here. Sandy — "…the sport and game of angling is the true means and cause that brings a man into a merry spirit, which…makes a flowering age and a long one." ~~ Dame Juliana Berners 1496

Response:

here in Southern Oregon – a buddy of mine landed a 33" (28lb +/-) hen chinook

Whoa! That is a fat fish! Mu

Response:

Kissass. — Citizen Fisherman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Cool!  Then we’ll expect TRs and maybe even photos posted to alt.binaries.pictures.fishing very soon.  :^)  Welcome back, Gus.  Don’t sweat the small stuff.  Fishing and fun and friends are what’s important, and there’s plenty of that here. Sandy —

Response:

I have only posted to this group once, so I guess it would be fair to say I am a newbie.  I guess I could also be considered a Lurker because I have continued to follow threads hear and there for the last couple months, as time permits, but I have not contributed. I can only say that nothing I have read would make me reluctant to post to ROFF.  As a matter of fact, I would expect any group interested in Fly fishing to have a disproportionate number of curmudgeons.  This is not meant as a slight, I enjoy and respect many crurmudgeons.  When someone takes heat on this group, they usually deserve it and the criticism teaches newbies, like me, simple lessons.  (Posting shamless marketing or large pictures is a no-no.)  The lessons are also entertaining. My position as a Lurker will probably erode over time.  At this point in time, my major limitation is time.  My kids keep me quite busy and it is fun to be with them.  I guess you could call them my primary hobby.  Reading a few post here and there is quick and I can do it at odd hours.  I sometimes cannot look at ROFF for weeks, so my contributions would be disjoint at best.  I really enjoy trip reports and many are truly works of art.  The only thing I find intimidating about ROFF would be to producing a a small whitefish trip report in a riffle loaded with quality trout. I have learned much from this group.  (For example: I need to give the Henry’s Fork another try and now I know why it appears that I catch more than twice the number of trout when I use a dropper.  I guess I can thank Bruce for both.) I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.  The thing I need most to contribute to ROFF is content.

Response:

I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.  The thing I need most to contribute to ROFF is content.

Actually, Jim, all you need is a Sage rod for sale and a couple of alter egos. But seriously, it’s nice to here from you! –Steve

Response:

"Jim …..Posting shamless marketing or large pictures is a no-no.

I, for one, don’t think shamless marketing is all that bad……best kind there is, as a matter of fact.     …The only thing I find intimidating about ROFF would be to producing a a small whitefish trip report in a riffle loaded with quality trout….

Pretty metaphor.  You got nuthin to worry about. Wolfgang oh yeah, welcome aboard!

Response:

Good post. Many will agree.  ;-) Seriously, thanks for the post, Jim. You’ve refuted the "popular opinion" (actually, held by just the one guy, afaik) that ROFF is an uninviting place. (HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… /daytripper (You’re off to a good start! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have only posted to this group once, so I guess it would be fair to say I am a newbie.  I guess I could also be considered a Lurker because I have continued to follow threads hear and there for the last couple months, as time permits, but I have not contributed. I can only say that nothing I have read would make me reluctant to post to ROFF.  As a matter of fact, I would expect any group interested in Fly fishing to have a disproportionate number of curmudgeons.  This is not meant as a slight, I enjoy and respect many crurmudgeons.  When someone takes heat on this group, they usually deserve it and the criticism teaches newbies, like me, simple lessons.  (Posting shamless marketing or large pictures is a no-no.)  The lessons are also entertaining. My position as a Lurker will probably erode over time.  At this point in time, my major limitation is time.  My kids keep me quite busy and it is fun to be with them.  I guess you could call them my primary hobby.  Reading a few post here and there is quick and I can do it at odd hours.  I sometimes cannot look at ROFF for weeks, so my contributions would be disjoint at best.  I really enjoy trip reports and many are truly works of art.  The only thing I find intimidating about ROFF would be to producing a a small whitefish trip report in a riffle loaded with quality trout. I have learned much from this group.  (For example: I need to give the Henry’s Fork another try and now I know why it appears that I catch more than twice the number of trout when I use a dropper.  I guess I can thank Bruce for both.) I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.  The thing I need most to contribute to ROFF is content.

Response:

"Jim" wrote My position as a Lurker will probably erode over time.  At this point in time, my major limitation is time.  My kids keep me quite busy and it is fun to be with them.  I guess you could call them my primary hobby.  Reading a few post here and there is quick and I can do it at odd hours.  I sometimes cannot look at ROFF for weeks, so my contributions would be disjoint at best. ……

Even the most curmudgeonly and cantankerous here won’t ever fault you for having your priorities so properly ordered.  Hope you find the time to post more often–maybe even a TR of the up-coming trip with your brothers.  ;) JR

Response:

(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… Uh, you don’t get out much do you. <g — Charlie…

You can say that again!  I don’t suppose anyone gets out as much as they would like.  Thats why I lurk around here and live vicariously though others.  It also gives me a chance to learn, although I would rather be learning on a river.

Response:

(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)…

Uh, you don’t get out much do you. <g — Charlie…

Response:

I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.  The thing I need most to contribute to ROFF is content.

You can always theorize or trivialize (?).  Keeps me busy in the long lulls between fishing trips

Response:

(HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… Uh, you don’t get out much do you. <g

What was I thinking?!?

Response:

He should definately cul that canard. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (HWMNBN won’t be able to trot *that* canard out anymore)… Uh, you don’t get out much do you. <g What was I thinking?!?

Response:

I can only say that nothing I have read would make me reluctant to post to ROFF.  As a matter of fact, I would expect any group interested in Fly fishing to have a disproportionate number of curmudgeons.

Welcome, Jim!  Everyone here (with the exception of a troll) has been exceedingly kind and helpful to me, despite the fact I am very new to fly fishing.  I don’t always have info to add to discussions, but I read every one and have learned a wealth of information here, and have made some very nice friends. I will go fishing with my brothers in a few weeks and I hope the trip gives me enough material for a good report.

Please do post when you get back.  All the trout in Arizona streams seem to be boiled from the extended summer heat and I’m living vicariously through trip reports on ROFF until conditions improve.  <g Sandy — "…the sport and game of angling is the true means and cause that brings a man into a merry spirit, which…makes a flowering age and a long one." ~~ Dame Juliana Berners 1496

Response:

Question:

Try Paint Creek in Oakland County.  The stream has both natural reproduction & plantings of brown trout.  The stream is also maintained by the Clinton Valley chapter of Trout Unlimited.  The browns can push 20".  The rainbows are actually steelhead smolts and should be quickly released as they are fully native, and the steelhead fishing in the Clinton River system depends on them.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a location(s) to fly fish in southern L.P. Michigan. Regards, M.

Response:

No trout streams according to the L&N book. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks for all the quick responses; however, are there any locations on the middle to southest corner of the state? Regards, M. I am looking for a location(s) to fly fish in southern L.P. Michigan. Regards, M.

Response:

Thanks for all the quick responses; however, are there any locations on the middle to southest corner of the state? Regards, M.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a location(s) to fly fish in southern L.P. Michigan. Regards, M.

Response:

A good little book that I have is called "Michigan Trout Streams" by Linsenman & Nevala. Try Augusta Creek just north of Augusta, northeast of Kalamazoo (I’ve had some decent luck there) or farther southwest, Dowigiac Creek & River are listed  near Sumnerville, but I’ve never fished it myself. Good Luck.

If memory serves, Linsenman & Nevala report that there are landlocked salmon in one of the lakes in SW Michigan; I believe it may be Gull Lake.

Response:

I am looking for a location(s) to fly fish in southern L.P. Michigan. Regards, M.

Response:

I am looking for a location(s) to fly fish in southern L.P. Michigan.

There’s salmon fishing between Croton and Newaygo on the Muskegon River and a lot more info at  http://www.steelheadsite.com — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

A good little book that I have is called "Michigan Trout Streams" by Linsenman & Nevala. Try Augusta Creek just north of Augusta, northeast of Kalamazoo (I’ve had some decent luck there) or farther southwest, Dowigiac Creek & River are listed  near Sumnerville, but I’ve never fished it myself. Good Luck. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for a location(s) to fly fish in southern L.P. Michigan. There’s salmon fishing between Croton and Newaygo on the Muskegon River and a lot more info at  http://www.steelheadsite.com — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

My 17 year old son and I day tripped into a sub-alpine lake in the sapphires. We hauled in a hobbie cat pontoon boat and went fly-fishing for arctic grayling.  Between the two of us we caught & released about 50 of the little things in about 5 hours of fishing. Basically they hit anything that floated in a 14 or smaller.  most were 10" or so but we caught a few up to 14" and one 16".    lake is at about 8200′ elevation and still ringed with snow on the adjacent north facing slopes (i.e. water is bloody cold) I must have been pre-occupied during my turn on the pontoon- my son tells me there was a black bear taking a drink from the shore line about 100′ from where I was fishing & I didn’t see it. (lake is about 13 acres and I was on the far side under a shale slide.) The grayling do not fight like a trout- they tended to stay down and run- but not with a lot of power.  Unfortunately I only have a 9′  6 wt which is definitely too much rod for these fellas – I think a 4 wt might be more fun–hmm, I wonder what the finance dept would say to that. Sunday I had a little time to kill so I ran up the Blackfoot river (base river in ARRTI) and fished for a few hours- only managed 5 or 6 small ‘bows of about 10".  the water is still high, fast and turbid and I was using a small wulff pattern.  I think a "big ugly" would be better. Looks like a really dry year coming- I’m worried about water levels in the major streams/rivers.

Response:

Rivers are below normal and the snowpack is basically gone. We need timely rains if the rivers are going to stay cool enough for trout. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looks like a really dry year coming- I’m worried about water levels in the major streams/rivers.

Response:

Question:

Carl, These boats differ in their performance.  The Delta, Acadia, Bayou, Keowee and Swifty are all "recreational boats".  The Delta and the Bayou are very similar in performance but one is longer than the other and tracks better. They both have flat hulls and are very good with initial stability but not very good secondary stability.  These boats will track better and be a bit faster than the Swifty and Keowee. The Swifty and Keowee are just knock around boats.  They don’t track well but do maneuver easily.  The Acadia is at the extreme low end of "touring kayaks"  It’s has a little more rocker on it but is made to get out into the easy ocean if desired.  It has good initial and secondary stability.  All of these boats will do flat water, easy class I/II rapids and paddle in bays well.  The Acadia, you can take a step further out in the easy ocean.

I’ve seen Swiftys and Keowees on class II, and I don’t think I’d say that they do it well.  Certainly people have fun in them, but…well, it depends on the class II, I guess.  I think that the more technical the river is, the less fun these boats will be.  Also, I’ve never seen anyone wear a skirt with these — it could be a pretty damp experience.   — ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::         "I would not exchange the sorrows of my heart                 for the joys of the multitude"

Response:

Yes it does depend on the river.  The Chattahoochee in Atlanta would be fine but something that is more technical would not.  That’s why I said easy class I/II rapids.  People have the option of purchasing a skirt with these boats.  The companies make skirts that fit each one.  If a person tells me they want to run some easy class I/II as well as flat water, I tell them they may want to purchase a skirt with it to keep the water out.  On the other hand if they just want to do flat water, there’s no need for a skirt unless they want to get a mini-skirt for splash or paddle drip. Courtney Rapid Adventures – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve seen Swiftys and Keowees on class II, and I don’t think I’d say that they do it well.  Certainly people have fun in them, but…well, it depends on the class II, I guess.  I think that the more technical the river is, the less fun these boats will be.  Also, I’ve never seen anyone wear a skirt with these — it could be a pretty damp experience.

Response:

You can get into a Swifty and yes it will float but it will sit lower in the water and be sluggish.  The Delta would be a better boat for doing what you are wanting to do and be more in your weight range.  If you really liked it, go for it.  It’s a great boat and I’m sure you won’t be disappointed. Courtney Rapid Adventures – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Courtney WOW- what a great reply…..thanks SO VERY MUCH!!!! As a follow-up- being 6-01/245- will the Swiftie float ??  If so, I think it would be an ideal 1st boat for me…..going to the kids later (if I like it enough to spend more $$$$$)  All I want to do at this point is paddle out a little, or paddle upstream a little (slow river) and flyfish for Bass/Panfish on the way back. I do have to admit though- out of the Delta and Bayou- I liked the Delta MUCH better.  The Bayou just seemed a little squirley compared to the Delta.  I even sat back and pulled my legs out and dangled them in the water in the Delta. A nice way to float down stream .  Couldn’t do that in the Bayou. I guess the thing that keeps me fluctuating towards Perception is their cool web site- maybe their boats are as cool??  Haven’t seen one though- other than on the web . Thanks again!! Carl

Response:

Dear Courtney WOW- what a great reply…..thanks SO VERY MUCH!!!! As a follow-up- being 6-01/245- will the Swiftie float ??  If so, I think it would be an ideal 1st boat for me…..going to the kids later (if I like it enough to spend more $$$$$)  All I want to do at this point is paddle out a little, or paddle upstream a little (slow river) and flyfish for Bass/Panfish on the way back. I do have to admit though- out of the Delta and Bayou- I liked the Delta MUCH better.  The Bayou just seemed a little squirley compared to the Delta.  I even sat back and pulled my legs out and dangled them in the water in the Delta.  A nice way to float down stream .  Couldn’t do that in the Bayou. I guess the thing that keeps me fluctuating towards Perception is their cool web site- maybe their boats are as cool??  Haven’t seen one though- other than on the web . Thanks again!! Carl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carl, These boats differ in their performance.  The Delta, Acadia, Bayou, Keowee and Swifty are all "recreational boats".  The Delta and the Bayou are very similar in performance but one is longer than the other and tracks better. They both have flat hulls and are very good with initial stability but not very good secondary stability.  These boats will track better and be a bit faster than the Swifty and Keowee. The Swifty and Keowee are just knock around boats.  They don’t track well but do maneuver easily.  The Acadia is at the extreme low end of "touring kayaks"  It’s has a little more rocker on it but is made to get out into the easy ocean if desired.  It has good initial and secondary stability.  All of these boats will do flat water, easy class I/II rapids and paddle in bays well.  The Acadia, you can take a step further out in the easy ocean. As for the Carolina and Chinook, they are both Touring (sea) kayaks.  They track very well but are harder to turn.  Normally they will come with a rudder to help you with this.  They are both much faster than the above mentioned kayaks.  They have very good initial and secondary stability and both perform beautiful on flat water, easy class I/II rivers, bays and out in the ocean.  Their intended purpose is for actual sea kayaking, flat water and easy rivers. Both companies hold a good warranty (I think 3 years).  Dagger plastic is made of Excel polyethylene whereas Perception is made of Linear. Technically Excel is stronger but both plastics are very good.  Wilderness Systems material is made up of Crosslink.  This is the strongest of materials but a little heavier. Since you tried the Delta and liked it but didn’t like the Bayou, you may also check out the Wilderness Systems Manteo.  You may find you like it a whole lot better than the Pungo.  The hull on these boats are called a tri-hull.  They have excellent initial and secondary stability and track very well.  I have known several people to take them on all the above mentioned waters but they did get a bit nervous when out in the ocean and the waves got big or choppy. If you’re looking at a used boat, take a look to see that the top of the boat is the same color as the bottom of the boat.  People store their kayaks outside allot and the UV rays break down the plastic over time.  If stored indoors the plastic condition should be fine.  Also look for oil canning (where the boat has a bow in it somewhere on the hull, usually under the seat).  I little bow is o.k. but if it looks really wavy, the plastic is getting warn and doesn’t have too much time left before it cracks.   Look for deep gouges as well.  There will always be scratches on a boat and that’s fine but DEEP gouges can be a sign of trouble on the horizon depending on where these gouges are.  For instance, under the seat would be a bad place. Out of all of these boats, I would focus on the Delta, Acadia and Manteo if not planning on really getting out into the ocean.  The Manteo does great in waves and flat water, the Acadia the same but less initial stability and the Delta does better in flat water due to the good initial stability but not that much secondary and is not as wave friendly. If planning on going into the ocean, either the Carolina or Chinook would be good.  I personally like the Carolina the best because of it’s stability and performance. Hope this helped and sorry it’s so long.  I work in a boat store and sell these boats every day and it’s hard to narrow it down to two sentences. Courtney Rapid Adventures Hi: I’m a long time paddler (canoe) that’s brand new to kayaks…..but I’m hooked Tested the Delta today and loved it….haven’t seen the Acadia or Carolina, however from the web the Acadia seems almost exactly like the Delta.  What are your thoughts….which is a better company (product, fit and finish, warranty, support etc) and which is a better boat?  To complicate matters another shop has a used Perception Chinook for the same price as these new boats……. Also, I’m 6′01" and 245lbs…..any large kayakers try the Keowee or even the Swiftie?  I did paddle the WS Pongo and the Dagger Bayou and did not like either (for different reasons). I know this is a long message, but I do hop there are some out there that will have the time to respond…..I’m hopelessly confused Carl

Response:

Carl – Did you try also posting your message to the following newsgroup? rec.boats.paddle.touring You might reach more users who could help you out there. Good luck! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I wanted to thank the two newsgroup members above- they were the only replies to my post.  For the rest of you, PLEASE help me with opinions.  I have no kayak background and thought that this would be the perfect forum to get experienced responses.  My original post is below:- (My sole (current) ambition is to paddle a mile or so upstream and fly-fish downstream)) Hi: I’m a long time paddler (canoe) that’s brand new to kayaks…..but I’m hooked Tested the Delta today and loved it….haven’t seen the Acadia or Carolina, however from the web the Acadia seems almost exactly like the Delta.  What are your thoughts….which is a better company (product, fit and finish, warranty, support etc) and which is a better boat?  To complicate matters another shop has a used Perception Chinook for the same price as these new boats……. Also, I’m 6′01" and 245lbs…..any large kayakers try the Keowee or even the Swiftie?  I did paddle the WS Pongo and the Dagger Bayou and did not like either (for different reasons). I know this is a long message, but I do hop there are some out there that will have the time to respond…..I’m hopelessly confused Carl

Sue

Response:

Carl, These boats differ in their performance.  The Delta, Acadia, Bayou, Keowee and Swifty are all "recreational boats".  The Delta and the Bayou are very similar in performance but one is longer than the other and tracks better. They both have flat hulls and are very good with initial stability but not very good secondary stability.  These boats will track better and be a bit faster than the Swifty and Keowee. The Swifty and Keowee are just knock around boats.  They don’t track well but do maneuver easily.  The Acadia is at the extreme low end of "touring kayaks"  It’s has a little more rocker on it but is made to get out into the easy ocean if desired.  It has good initial and secondary stability.  All of these boats will do flat water, easy class I/II rapids and paddle in bays well.  The Acadia, you can take a step further out in the easy ocean. As for the Carolina and Chinook, they are both Touring (sea) kayaks.  They track very well but are harder to turn.  Normally they will come with a rudder to help you with this.  They are both much faster than the above mentioned kayaks.  They have very good initial and secondary stability and both perform beautiful on flat water, easy class I/II rivers, bays and out in the ocean.  Their intended purpose is for actual sea kayaking, flat water and easy rivers. Both companies hold a good warranty (I think 3 years).  Dagger plastic is made of Excel polyethylene whereas Perception is made of Linear. Technically Excel is stronger but both plastics are very good.  Wilderness Systems material is made up of Crosslink.  This is the strongest of materials but a little heavier. Since you tried the Delta and liked it but didn’t like the Bayou, you may also check out the Wilderness Systems Manteo.  You may find you like it a whole lot better than the Pungo.  The hull on these boats are called a tri-hull.  They have excellent initial and secondary stability and track very well.  I have known several people to take them on all the above mentioned waters but they did get a bit nervous when out in the ocean and the waves got big or choppy. If you’re looking at a used boat, take a look to see that the top of the boat is the same color as the bottom of the boat.  People store their kayaks outside allot and the UV rays break down the plastic over time.  If stored indoors the plastic condition should be fine.  Also look for oil canning (where the boat has a bow in it somewhere on the hull, usually under the seat).  I little bow is o.k. but if it looks really wavy, the plastic is getting warn and doesn’t have too much time left before it cracks.   Look for deep gouges as well.  There will always be scratches on a boat and that’s fine but DEEP gouges can be a sign of trouble on the horizon depending on where these gouges are.  For instance, under the seat would be a bad place. Out of all of these boats, I would focus on the Delta, Acadia and Manteo if not planning on really getting out into the ocean.  The Manteo does great in waves and flat water, the Acadia the same but less initial stability and the Delta does better in flat water due to the good initial stability but not that much secondary and is not as wave friendly. If planning on going into the ocean, either the Carolina or Chinook would be good.  I personally like the Carolina the best because of it’s stability and performance. Hope this helped and sorry it’s so long.  I work in a boat store and sell these boats every day and it’s hard to narrow it down to two sentences. Courtney Rapid Adventures – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi: I’m a long time paddler (canoe) that’s brand new to kayaks…..but I’m hooked Tested the Delta today and loved it….haven’t seen the Acadia or Carolina, however from the web the Acadia seems almost exactly like the Delta.  What are your thoughts….which is a better company (product, fit and finish, warranty, support etc) and which is a better boat?  To complicate matters another shop has a used Perception Chinook for the same price as these new boats……. Also, I’m 6′01" and 245lbs…..any large kayakers try the Keowee or even the Swiftie?  I did paddle the WS Pongo and the Dagger Bayou and did not like either (for different reasons). I know this is a long message, but I do hop there are some out there that will have the time to respond…..I’m hopelessly confused Carl

Response:

I wanted to thank the two newsgroup members above- they were the only replies to my post.  For the rest of you, PLEASE help me with opinions.  I have no kayak background and thought that this would be the perfect forum to get experienced responses.  My original post is below:- (My sole (current) ambition is to paddle a mile or so upstream and fly-fish downstream)) Hi: I’m a long time paddler (canoe) that’s brand new to kayaks…..but I’m hooked Tested the Delta today and loved it….haven’t seen the Acadia or Carolina, however from the web the Acadia seems almost exactly like the Delta.  What are your thoughts….which is a better company (product, fit and finish, warranty, support etc) and which is a better boat?  To complicate matters another shop has a used Perception Chinook for the same price as these new boats……. Also, I’m 6′01" and 245lbs…..any large kayakers try the Keowee or even the Swiftie?  I did paddle the WS Pongo and the Dagger Bayou and did not like either (for different reasons). I know this is a long message, but I do hop there are some out there that will have the time to respond…..I’m hopelessly confused Carl

Response:

Hi: I’m a long time paddler (canoe) that’s brand new to kayaks…..but I’m hooked Tested the Delta today and loved it….haven’t seen the Acadia or Carolina, however from the web the Acadia seems almost exactly like the Delta.  What are your thoughts….which is a better company (product, fit and finish, warranty, support etc) and which is a better boat?  To complicate matters another shop has a used Perception Chinook for the same price as these new boats……. Also, I’m 6′01" and 245lbs…..any large kayakers try the Keowee or even the Swiftie?  I did paddle the WS Pongo and the Dagger Bayou and did not like either (for different reasons). I know this is a long message, but I do hop there are some out there that will have the time to respond…..I’m hopelessly confused Carl

Response:

paddled the Carolina in a Basic Sea Kayaking course and was pleased with it. It was my first time kayaking and I had no problems.  It is 25 1/4 inches wide so it will be more tippy than the Delta I believe.  I would be reluctant to paddle a kayak with out some instruction.  Oh, I almost forgot, I am 6′ 2" and found the Carolina a little too scrunched up for my legs.  I rented a Current Designs Storm (17′ l  24"w) today and the leg room was better and it was fast, but it was extremely heavy.  Hope this helps some.

Response:

I have had two Dagger white water boats and have had no complaints about their fit or finish. Are you pretty much decided on a day-tripping boat? There are a number of choices out there, in a number of lengths, and it is easy to get "analysis paralysis". Check out the paddling shops in your area and find out about rentals and demo days. Get hooked up with a paddling club or two and you can get exposure to a number of different boats and opinions. Many folks have more than one and might be willing to help you compare. Don’t worry about making the choice. You’re really just buying your *first* kayak, anyway . (ps- one of the boats I have is a Wilderness Systems Seacret, which is plenty wide (I’m 6′1" and weigh 205) and has lots of foot room, and was surprisingly maneuverable and quick… I bought it to serve as a fishing photo platform, but really like it generally. Check and see when the outfitters in your area are selling used equipment…worked for me, and I got it half price! Good luck! — paddlrat living proof that rats can swim! Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

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Question:

AA Outfitters (used to be AA Pro Shop I think) used to carry them, had some pretty good prices on mostly cosmetic seconds.  I haven’t bought from them in a couple of years though so I’m not sure if they still do. -jerry http://www.gorp.com/aa_pro/default.htm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can anyone direct me to a company that sells seconds or blemished rod blanks? You can e-mail me at Thanks J

Response:

Can anyone direct me to a company that sells seconds or blemished rod blanks? You can e-mail me at Thanks J

Response:

Cote’s Fly Shop in Leicester Ma., sells blems and seconds as well as excellent rods made with them by Ray Cote. Call 508-892-3765 and tell them Jerry Schrader sent you. Jerry Schrader, a pro wedding photog.  http://www.weddingphoto-ma.com

Response:

Can anyone direct me to a company that sells seconds or blemished rod blanks? You can e-mail me at Thanks J

The Anglers Workshop, www.anglersworkshop.com, sells blems at a pretty good price too.

Response:

Two good sources for blems are: Jon King at JJ King Flyfishing Co., Alturas, CA Excellent deals, special rates for clubs & associations. Jon King is very honest, very helpful.  I built a 10 foot 9 weight from a two piece blem and his parts/components kit and it turned out to be an excellent salmon/steelhead rod.  I think the prices are $6/foot for four piece blanks and $5/foot for a two piece rod. honest, helpful guy.  He’s a guide in the Phoenix area so he may not answer your email right away if he’s out with a client guiding. The man has a good selection of blems. I bought a bunch of Berkley 4 piece blems for $25 each and turned them into excellent rods.  I got a 4 weight, a 6 weight, and an 8 weight, all 9 feet long.  Plus some other even cheaper blems made by Kunan (?) to practice on. Even these Korean blanks which I bought to play with, fearing to ruin a high end blank, turned into pretty decent 5 wghts. Al Soroka Vancouver, B.C.

Response:

Question:

Hi All, I will try to guess why it is hard to find waders for kids? Most young anglers are not fly fishing, so they don’t really need waders. They are growing so fast that parents don’t want to pay much for waders. We have carried them off and on for years with very little sales. It might be too dangerous? It is supply and demand. Bill Kiene

My Dad always told me that wading in cold water in tennis shoes makes ya tough, and waders were for wimpy old men.  My guess is the real reason is what Bill said, they’re expensive, you would have to buy a new pair every year, and if a kid fell down wearing them, he could drown. Levi

Response:

You can buy wadders for kids now at Cabella’s, Orvis or Madison River Flyshop/Outfitters. We got a pair made by BARE at MRF only because local shops didn’t carry them and the national catalog houses were out of stock at that time.Expect to pay like 75-$125. We got ours from Mike at MRFC e-mail Bill is so right about out growing wadders and boots. We couldn’t locate a men’s pair of boots to fit so we went to the smaller ladies sizes instead. (anybody need a good pair of ladies size 5 Hogman’s?) Mike suggested NOT buying boots for kids. Just get cheap over size tennis/sports shoes. We also let the child play in water when fishing slows down. Just be careful about water quality and your fellow fisherman who won’t appreciate that. I usually don’t fish when my son is in the water. Kids need supervision on water even if they don’t actually need help casting. -kyle- – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will try to guess why it is hard to find waders for kids? Most young anglers are not fly fishing, so they don’t really need waders. They are growing so fast that parents don’t want to pay much for waders. We have carried them off and on for years with very little sales. It might be too dangerous? It is supply and demand. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop www.kiene.com

Response:

rb 9 year old boys grow so fast it may be best to buy inexpensive rubber hip boots or flyweight hip waders like those made by Cabelas (he could wear them with an old pair of sneakers).  Not extrememly durable but they will probably still be in good shape when he grows out of them. They come in a wide range of sizes. dward

Response:

My son is getting to the age (9) where I’d like to start taking him along on a few trips.   Who makes decent waders in smaller sizes for kids?   I suppose he’s not really tall enough that wading up to his waist will gain him much distance, but he’ll feel more like dad if he has his own. Joe

Hi All, I will try to guess why it is hard to find waders for kids? Most young anglers are not fly fishing, so they don’t really need waders. They are growing so fast that parents don’t want to pay much for waders. We have carried them off and on for years with very little sales. It might be too dangerous? It is supply and demand. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop www.kiene.com

Response:

My son is getting to the age (9) where I’d like to start taking him along on a few trips.   Who makes decent waders in smaller sizes for kids?   I suppose he’s not really tall enough that wading up to his waist will gain him much distance, but he’ll feel more like dad if he has his own. Joe

Response:

My son is getting to the age (9) where I’d like to start taking him along on a few trips.   Who makes decent waders in smaller sizes for kids?   I suppose he’s not really tall enough that wading up to his waist will gain him much distance, but he’ll feel more like dad if he has his own.

Cabela’s has some in their catalog. — Charlie…

Response:

My son is getting to the age (9) where I’d like to start taking him along on a few trips.   Who makes decent waders in smaller sizes for kids?   I suppose he’s not really tall enough that wading up to his waist will gain him much distance, but he’ll feel more like dad if he has his own. Cabela’s has some in their catalog. — Charlie…

Thanks,  I overlooked the easy answer.   Since I’ll be lucky if he fits in them for a whole year at the rate he’s growing, I wouldn’t want to go premium name brand stuff anyway. Thanks, Joe

Response:

Orvis and LL Bean both sell kid sized waders, but they’re expensive. I got my son some Cabela’s lightweight stocking foot waders in size S when he was 10 (he’s a big kid).  They were too long for him, but otherwise fine. About half the price of the above. Michael – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My son is getting to the age (9) where I’d like to start taking him along on a few trips.   Who makes decent waders in smaller sizes for kids?   I suppose he’s not really tall enough that wading up to his waist will gain him much distance, but he’ll feel more like dad if he has his own. Joe

Response:

Sounds like a fair trade,  I’ll need an XL [Red Ball ST's or better]…do the kids need to be housebroken ? — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:45:46 -0600, c…@inav.net (Ken Wessels) wrote: >In article <5inhga…@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>, pa…@cus.cam.ac.uk (Aldabra >Stoddart) wrote: >> In article <01bc4635$caf9a2a0$9b250e26@wierwolf>, >> mail.earthlink.net <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: >> >I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and >> >kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married >> >women out there in a simular situation? >> Before you get involved in affairs, read alt.support.divorce for a few >> weeks (but skip the child-support and alimony threads);  these things can >> blow up very nastily.  Once you know what you’re getting into, if you >> still want to go ahead the honest thing to do would be to clear this with >> your wife in advance (if you haven’t already).  If you daren’t tell her you >> want to cheat on her you probably haven’t done all you could to revive >> the marriage. >> — >>               Aldabra Stoddart, St John’s & HPS, Cambridge >>                 "My inner child is a kiwi fruit" — G.S. >  You didn’t answer this guys’ question. But perhaps it doesn’t need >answering.

It did not really require answering.  Of course their are women out there in similar circumstances >The fact is that finding someone to romance with isn’t like a >shopping trip and in the "rat race" of the USA I don’t see how anyone >could find time!

Rat race?  Yes, it can be.  Which is why I shifted work goals.  Not so much money, but enough.  I have decided that the $28,000 car is not all that more uncomfortable than the $60,000 car.  I no longer have arguments with a peer group who spent much of their time stressed and unhappy.  Now, I actually have time to be with my wife and kids.  I can go fishing, play with my 3 dogs, talk to a friend instead of a business associate, and watch the bluejays fly about my yard. I think many of the problems that occur in marriages revolve around work.  A person must earn a living to eat and provide shelter. But I am thinking of a couple I saw a few weeks ago.  I was having lunch with my lawyer, a matter of my mother’s living will, and we were watching a couple at the next table.  About 30, I would say at a glance.  They spent the whole lunch rapidly trying to exchange information.  The kid’s schedule, day care problem, dentist appointment, etc.  Talked very quickly, glancing at watches often. They were interrupted from time to time by a beeper or cell phone call.  The food was very good but I don’t think they noticed.  At one point they bickered loudly over money.  I thought this was curious as both were dressed expensively in the latest style,  she was wearing a great deal of jewelry, and both had arrived, separately, in expensive cars. In comes another couple.  Man arrives in his work truck, a repairman of some type, jeans and flannel shirt a little worn.  Wife shows up in a Voyager, not new, with 3 kids.  All well but modestly dressed.  A family meeting for lunch.  Big thing for the kids.  They squealed and ran to Dad who grabbed them.  All sat and chatted about unimportant things.  You know, who had fell and skinned a knee, when could they go to the amusement park, etc.  While ordering their meal there was discussion about keeping it simple as mom didn’t want the price to be too high.  The mom and dad chatted quietly together while the kids ate,  couldn’t hear what they were saying but they were holding hands and exchanged small kisses several times. The first couple, glanced at the family a couple of times in annoyance, the children were happily loud.  And as the father passed there table at one point, I saw them both glance at his work boots which were well worn and needed some polish desparately. When the first couple got up to leave, they quickly pecked each other on the lips then walked, each in their own direction without glancing back at the other.  In a hurry.   My lawyer commented to me that he not once, in listening to their conversation, heard them actually talk to each other about each other. He told me that after lunch, he was cancelling some appointments.  He had decided he wanted to go home and see his wife.  No particular reason, just wanted to see her.  We have known each other for some time.  He commented that he still had an old flannel shirt in his closet and wondered if it still fit. Sometimes we create our own rat race. >   However, you imply that divorce, alimony and child support will follow >such a romance. That is a "scare tactic" and many people are never found >out in these extra marita romances, especially the women.

I don’t believe the person meant any scare tactic.  Just being realistic.  A very old and simple statement is ‘If you plan to play, you should plan to pay.’ True some people are not found out.  Others are.  But how much does a person want to gamble for some sex?  I love to have sex but there is only so far I would go for something which only lasts an hour or so. I remember one lady I met on a trip to Hawaii many years ago when I was single.  She had a minor role in a movie being filmed.  She was very beautiful and sexy…and she knew it.  Why she picked me I don’t know, I suspect that I just happened to be in the right place at the right time.  Besides her looks, she was a very horny person and for three days, when she was not otherwise occupied we had sex at every opportunity and she had no inhibitions at all. The sex was fantastic.  I very much enjoyed it.  But after 3 days I changed my travel plans and left.  The problem was that I couldn’t stand the woman, except in bed.  I hated very time she spoke.  She was shallow, full of venom about others with whom she worked,  babbled on continuously about her hair and figure and how much time she had spent on them.  She complained about every nitpicking thing possible.  She told me repeatedly that I was a great lover but I was pretty sure that when she was away from me she probably told jokes about my pitiful efforts and shortcomings. Good sex wasn’t worth that much to me.  I flew to San Diego where I met a woman who was married, on a business trip, and lonely.  She was at the same hotel as I and wanted suggestions about things to see in San Diego.  I think she also wanted someone to talk with.  We spent quite some time here and there when she was not in meetings.  She was very easily impressed with the sights about town, bragged continuously about her husband and children.  Laughed as she told me about his many faults, which she considered cute.  Complained that she felt that she could be a better business woman if only she tried harder.  Dwelled sadly on the fact that she was overweight and was amazed that her husband didn’t seem to notice.  She confessed to me that she wished she was a better lover for her husband.  He never complained but she knew that her skills were poor.  She talked about this in depth one evening when she had too many drinks.  From the descriptions,  she had room for improvement. Too tipsy, we were talking in her room, she made it clear that she was both horny and interested in learning something new to surprise her husband with back home.  I put her off as gently as possible and instead gave her a back massage until she fell asleep.  She was embarassed the next day but I consoled her and took her to lunch before her plane left. I couldn’t take advantage of her.  It probably would not have harmed their marriage in any way.  I doubt that he would have ever known or suspected.  I rejected her offer for selfish reasons.  I found this woman so enormously sexy and arousing that I knew that if I had accepted her offer,  I would not have wanted to let her go again.  She would have had to reject me, and she would have after the sex no matter how much she might have enjoyed it,  because she had too many other good things back at home.  She would have gotten over it, my heart would have broken. This is a true story.  To this day I remember the second woman’s name and details.  I don’t remember the first woman’s name at all.  It has been 28 years. Great sex can be found in many places.  A great person is much harder to find. Just an opinion, Bob By the way,  I agree with the responder who expressed the opinion that extra marrital sex can be a workable solution, for some people, a very few, in a strong marriage.  If both partners are agreeable.  Without these things, you take your risks, and are fully deserving of the consequences.  Don’t complain here.  Try ALT.DIVORCE.I-DESERVE-THIS.OUCH.OUCH.OUCH or the ever popular alt.spurt.spurt.sigh.how-long-should-i-wait-before-leaving

Response:

In article <5inhga…@lyra.csx.cam.ac.uk>, pa…@cus.cam.ac.uk (Aldabra – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Stoddart) wrote: > In article <01bc4635$caf9a2a0$9b250e26@wierwolf>, > mail.earthlink.net <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: > >I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and > >kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married > >women out there in a simular situation? > Before you get involved in affairs, read alt.support.divorce for a few > weeks (but skip the child-support and alimony threads);  these things can > blow up very nastily.  Once you know what you’re getting into, if you > still want to go ahead the honest thing to do would be to clear this with > your wife in advance (if you haven’t already).  If you daren’t tell her you > want to cheat on her you probably haven’t done all you could to revive > the marriage. > — >               Aldabra Stoddart, St John’s & HPS, Cambridge >                 "My inner child is a kiwi fruit" — G.S.

  You didn’t answer this guys’ question. But perhaps it doesn’t need answering. The fact is that finding someone to romance with isn’t like a shopping trip and in the "rat race" of the USA I don’t see how anyone could find time!    However, you imply that divorce, alimony and child support will follow such a romance. That is a "scare tactic" and many people are never found out in these extra marita romances, especially the women. — visit me @ http://members.aol.com/cydonia102/private/ken.html

Response:

>But the sex, when we have it is still very enjoyable.  And one of my >favorite joys is just seeing her pleasure.  I desire it more often >than we have it but there is a cure for this.  Ever hear of >masturbation?

I love how to-the-point you are. heh…yeah, if his urges cannot be met by masturbation then they obviously extend further than the sex drive – it could mean he has deep seated real problems with the marriage, or there has been a decrease in intimacy and not just sex. MG

Response:

On 12 Apr 1997 08:35:22 GMT, pa…@cus.cam.ac.uk (Aldabra Stoddart) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In article <01bc4635$caf9a2a0$9b250e26@wierwolf>, >mail.earthlink.net <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: >>I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and >>kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married >>women out there in a simular situation? >Before you get involved in affairs, read alt.support.divorce for a few >weeks (but skip the child-support and alimony threads);  these things can >blow up very nastily.  Once you know what you’re getting into, if you >still want to go ahead the honest thing to do would be to clear this with >your wife in advance (if you haven’t already).  If you daren’t tell her you >want to cheat on her you probably haven’t done all you could to revive >the marriage. >– >              Aldabra Stoddart, St John’s & HPS, Cambridge >                "My inner child is a kiwi fruit" — G.S.

You are correct IMHO. My first response to this post included no such alternative. Masturbation is my alternative solution if nothing else can be worked out to increase desire on her part.  Simply because the chances of severe problems with the other answer are so great.  And I have found that there are too many people who, once they hear such an alternative,  immediately jump into it as a solution. I have known a few couples for which it worked.  Where a wife or husband sought additonal sex outside the marriage.  In these cases, where it worked,  it was always an agreement between partners.  And, in the situations that I am aware of,  the problem was due to a difference in sex drives.  Not a matter of simple dissatisfaction with performance or effort. For instance one friend of mine was very happily married to a lady who enjoyed sex when she was in the mood.  Unfortunately, for him,  once a month was enough for her.  The once a month kept her happy, satisfied her needs and she was very happy with his performance. She was well aware that he wanted more and would cooperate in his need out of love for him.  However, she was well aware that although he didn’t complain,  sex was not the same when one partner is merely cooperating. In the end, she solved the problem.  She found a willing female friend and arranged the match and meetings.  Who this female friend was and the motivation for her, I don’t know, I never asked,  I felt that it was not my business.  Although I probably would have been told if I asked.  We were very good friends. This sort of thing is not the usual ‘cheating’ game. However, although I am in sort of the same circumstance with my wife who has a disability.  I do not find, personally, that such an arrangement is an acceptable one.  Although, to be frank, she has brought up the subject and told me she would understand.  I can’t do it.  I love her very much and don’t want to have the feelings with another women that I share with my wife.  I know that inevitably my emotions would be split.  I don’t enjoy sex without emotional exchange. This would not cause me to feel less for my wife. But I don’t want to share my emotions, at that level, with anyone else.  My own decision.  Not necessarily the only right one for someone else. Just my thoughts, Bob

Response:

In article <01bc4635$caf9a2a0$9b250e26@wierwolf>, mail.earthlink.net <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: >I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and >kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married >women out there in a simular situation?

Before you get involved in affairs, read alt.support.divorce for a few weeks (but skip the child-support and alimony threads);  these things can blow up very nastily.  Once you know what you’re getting into, if you still want to go ahead the honest thing to do would be to clear this with your wife in advance (if you haven’t already).  If you daren’t tell her you want to cheat on her you probably haven’t done all you could to revive the marriage. —               Aldabra Stoddart, St John’s & HPS, Cambridge                 "My inner child is a kiwi fruit" — G.S.

Response:

On 11 Apr 1997 05:00:12 GMT, "mail.earthlink.net" <wierw…@earthlink.net> wrote: >I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and >kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married >women out there in a simular situation?

I could not pass this up without a comment. Is your marriage based only on sex? My wife is partially disabled and although she is capable of enjoying sex, her need for it is much diminished and the pain caused by the muscle contractions when she climaxes cause her to limit this activity. But the sex, when we have it is still very enjoyable.  And one of my favorite joys is just seeing her pleasure.  I desire it more often than we have it but there is a cure for this.  Ever hear of masturbation? Bob

Response:

I know this may sound terible but it is not unusual.  I love my wife and kids, but my wife has lost her need (bored) for sex.  Are there any married women out there in a simular situation?

Response:

Question:

Looking for info on the Bitterroot River. When are the flows good for fishing? Would like to fish in the months of July or August.   What kind of hatches should I expect to encounter? Thank in advance for any information. Fly Guy

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Looking for info on the Bitterroot River. When are the flows good for fishing? Would like to fish in the months of July or August. What kind of hatches should I expect to encounter? Thank in advance for any information. Fly Guy

If you plan on fishing the bitterroot, fish in late july or august.  Our snow pack is 160% of normal and run off should last through early july.  Here is a couple of Outfitters and shops that can give you more information. Fishaus Tackle 406-363-6158 Grizzly Hackle 800-297-8996 Cross Currents 406-449-2292 If you are interested we offer flyfishing software for fishing 84 rivers in Montana, the bitterroot is included in this list.  Our software has up to date information on hatches, cfs flows, fly shops, hotle & motel information plus much more.   Here is some of the hatches you will encounter: Cinnamon Sedge, Golden Stone, Hoppers, Brown Stones, PMD’s, and Trico’s. If run off is too bad you can fish the Missouri River , it is a tail water fishery and even with high run offs the clarity is good.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Looking for info on the Bitterroot River. When are the flows good for fishing? Would like to fish in the months of July or August. What kind of hatches should I expect to encounter? Thank in advance for any information. Fly Guy If you plan on fishing the bitterroot, fish in late july or august.  Our snow pack is 160% of normal and run off should last through early july.  Here is a couple of Outfitters and shops that can give you more information. Fishaus Tackle 406-363-6158 Grizzly Hackle 800-297-8996 Cross Currents 406-449-2292 If you are interested we offer flyfishing software for fishing 84 rivers in Montana, the bitterroot is included in this list.  Our software has up to date information on hatches, cfs flows, fly shops, hotle & motel information plus much more. Here is some of the hatches you will encounter: Cinnamon Sedge, Golden Stone, Hoppers, Brown Stones, PMD’s, and Trico’s. If run off is too bad you can fish the Missouri River , it is a tail water fishery and even with high run offs the clarity is good.

It should be noted that water is being rapidly released from behind dams on the Missouri in anticipation of major run-off..so it may be having an some impact on the Missouri as a tailwater fishery….here in Missoula we are being asked to prepare for something on the level of between a 100 year and 500 year event once the snow begins to melt…

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Bitterroot is running over 1100 cfs today. Thats not bad but it ain’t great and it has been rising (from 800 cfs on saturday). The Clark Fork is already over 600 cfs and is pretty muddy. Missouri below Holter has been around 8000 cfs for awhile now in anticipation of the melt, which by the way has NOT started yet (in earnest). In fact, it is trying to spit snow outside right now! — Brian D. Nelson, Missoula, Montana Montana Flyfishing and Hunting Outfitter http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm http://www.montana.com/dno/hunt.htm

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: I was fishing Lochsa the other day.  I just got to a new spot and was : getting ready to cast when I noticed one of those big brown-grey October : Caddis land on the surface of the water.  It flopped its wings a bit but : was pretty much stuck.  As it was about right in front of me a huge : cutthroat emerged from the green depth, there was a splash, and it looked : like the poor fly was a meal.  But it wasn’t.  The cutthroat disappeared : and the caddis flowed intact flopping its wings desperately. [snip] : I stood there motionless for a few moments waiting to make sure the show was : over.  Then I started stripping some line off of the reel.  As I was ready to : cast a thought occured to me that he was checking whether the fly was real. You play the fish…the fish plays the fly.  We all crave entertainment. (My guess is that the cutt forgot to *suck*.  I  guess we will have to change the thread title to "Some Cutts really do *suck*".) Next time Ande… please just say "I was on a river the other day".   Please, no names.<g — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Wooley) writes: I was fishing Lochsa the other day.  I just got to a new spot and was getting ready to cast when I noticed one of those big brown-grey October Caddis land on the surface of the water.  It flopped its wings a bit but was pretty much stuck.  As it was about right in front of me a huge cutthroat emerged from the green depth, there was a splash, and it looked like the poor fly was a meal.  But it wasn’t.  The cutthroat disappeared and the caddis flowed intact flopping its wings desperately. After a couple more seconds, the cutthroat reappeared and struck, again without taking the fly.  I paused curious if he was going to leave the caddis alone.  A few seconds passed and the cutthroat emerged,  again made a splash and didn’t get it either.  Then, almost immediately, he struck the final time and the fly was gone.  The cutthroat vanished.   I stood there motionless for a few moments waiting to make sure the show was over.  Then I started stripping some line off of the reel.  As I was ready to cast a thought occured to me that he was checking whether the fly was real. -Ande Rychter Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? We’re talking about a fish here man…with a brain the size of a "green pea!" Not even a  _brain surgeon_  checks his food three times before he eats it (and more often, his food is not trying to escape.) O.K.!  Maybe the ones with brains the size of a "green pea" do… cw — Indocti discant et ament meminisse periti

Well gee, Not sure about this one. I’ve seen trout act that way too, and maybe I’m just fooling myself, but it seems as though I’ve seen it more in hard fished streams. Don’t think it’s intelligence, but maybe natural selection?   Fish adept at getting the fly the first time are caught first? I know that I’ve seen it most where the fish have lots of time, in long slicks and such. And (come to think of it) the flys were always fairly close to ME, the evil fish catching monster.   Hmmmmmm. Something to ponder anyway. Steve

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was fishing Lochsa the other day.  I just got to a new spot and was getting ready to cast when I noticed one of those big brown-grey October Caddis land on the surface of the water.  It flopped its wings a bit but was pretty much stuck.  As it was about right in front of me a huge cutthroat emerged from the green depth, there was a splash, and it looked like the poor fly was a meal.  But it wasn’t.  The cutthroat disappeared and the caddis flowed intact flopping its wings desperately. After a couple more seconds, the cutthroat reappeared and struck, again without taking the fly.  I paused curious if he was going to leave the caddis alone.  A few seconds passed and the cutthroat emerged,  again made a splash and didn’t get it either.  Then, almost immediately, he struck the final time and the fly was gone.  The cutthroat vanished.   I stood there motionless for a few moments waiting to make sure the show was over.  Then I started stripping some line off of the reel.  As I was ready to cast a thought occured to me that he was checking whether the fly was real. -Ande Rychter

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? We’re talking about a fish here man…with a brain the size of a "green pea!" Not even a  _brain surgeon_  checks his food three times before he eats it (and more often, his food is not trying to escape.) O.K.!  Maybe the ones with brains the size of a "green pea" do… cw — Indocti discant et ament meminisse periti

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I was fishing Lochsa the other day.  I just got to a new spot and was getting ready to cast when I noticed one of those big brown-grey October Caddis land on the surface of the water.  It flopped its wings a bit but was pretty much stuck.  As it was about right in front of me a huge cutthroat emerged from the green depth, there was a splash, and it looked like the poor fly was a meal.  But it wasn’t.  The cutthroat disappeared and the caddis flowed intact flopping its wings desperately. After a couple more seconds, the cutthroat reappeared and struck, again without taking the fly.  I paused curious if he was going to leave the caddis alone.  A few seconds passed and the cutthroat emerged,  again made a splash and didn’t get it either.  Then, almost immediately, he struck the final time and the fly was gone.  The cutthroat vanished.   I stood there motionless for a few moments waiting to make sure the show was over.  Then I started stripping some line off of the reel.  As I was ready to cast a thought occured to me that he was checking whether the fly was real. -Ande Rychter

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Question:

Green line sounds like a Cortland model.  Good luck.

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: It’s mine.  I lost it in 1993.  Please drop it in the mail and I’ll send : you the postage by return mail.  Thanks. : Rick Nice try Rick, I suppose my story will get a similar response!

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Don’t laugh I’m serious. I have a 7′ fly rod that I found at a drainage ditch a few years back. I had not used it until recently and have found that I really enjoy fly fishing. The reel is aluminum and it has some green line that looks like a nylon mesh with a plastic coating and a metal loop at the end to tie leader. However, it is starting to show signs of wear. I have looked for replacement line at some local stores but nothing seems comparable in weight and consistency of the green line. Does anyone have any ideas as to what kind of line this is and where I might be able to get more? Also, I have read quite a bit of posts in this group about equipment, but, not much on fly selection and presentation. What are some of the more successful flys and presentations for trout in small streams? Thanks in advance for your theories, suggestions and knowledge.

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