Question:

I am planning a trip to the Outer Banks of NC in August, probably staying on Cedar Island and boating over to the back of the core banks where I would like to do some fly fishing. My fly fishing experience is limited to cold water trout streams. I have no saltwater fly fishing experience, and I have not visited the Outer Banks before. Is my plan reasonable? Is the western side of the national seashore good for fly fishing? Are the waters around Cedar Island good for fly fishing? What species of fish can I expect to catch in this area on flies? What flies are good for use in this area? Thank you, Bob

Response:

I am planning a trip to the Outer Banks of NC in August, probably staying on Cedar Island and boating over to the back of the core banks where I would like to do some fly fishing. My fly fishing experience is limited to cold water trout streams. I have no saltwater fly fishing experience, and I have not visited the Outer Banks before. Is my plan reasonable? Is the western side of the national seashore good for fly fishing? Are the waters around Cedar Island good for fly fishing? What species of fish can I expect to catch in this area on flies? What flies are good for use in this area? Thank you, Bob

FWIW, if I were you I would consider hiring a guide for a day or two. Your trout equipment is going to be unsuitable in the salt due to salt water corrosion problems. In addition it is not uncommon to hook fish that run a long way, and without sufficient backing, you are likely to lose a fly line as well as ruin a reel.  A guide will help you with your casting which probably is going to be in windy conditions. Casting is much different in salt water conditions. I have no monetary connections with guides, but some of the best money I have ever spent was for guides when I was visiting in unfamiliar places and fishing unknown waters. Give ROFF a report when you get back.

Response:

Try contacting Gordon Churchill, a local guide in that area at http://www.geocities.com/capt_gordon/ .  He’s a good fellow and has always provided good information whether you hire him or not.   Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning a trip to the Outer Banks of NC in August, probably staying on Cedar Island and boating over to the back of the core banks where I would like to do some fly fishing. My fly fishing experience is limited to cold water trout streams. I have no saltwater fly fishing experience, and I have not visited the Outer Banks before. Is my plan reasonable? Is the western side of the national seashore good for fly fishing? Are the waters around Cedar Island good for fly fishing? What species of fish can I expect to catch in this area on flies? What flies are good for use in this area? Thank you, Bob

Response:

I am planning a trip to the Outer Banks of NC in August, probably staying on Cedar Island and boating over to the back of the core banks where I would like to do some fly fishing. My fly fishing experience is limited to cold water trout streams. I have no saltwater fly fishing experience, and I have not visited the Outer Banks before. Is my plan reasonable? Is the western side of the national seashore good for fly fishing? Are the waters around Cedar Island good for fly fishing? What species of fish can I expect to catch in this area on flies? What flies are good for use in this area? Thank you, Bob

http://www.google.de/search?q=NC+Cedar+Banks+fishing&hl=de&meta= Turned up over five thousand hits.  Must be at least a few with exactly the info you want. TL MC

Response:

Purely out of curiosity, I checked a few, sounds pretty good. http://www.coastalguide.com/packet/fishing01.htm http://www.icw-net.com/fish.htm http://www.outerbanks.com/fishing/fishcal.htm http://www.ufish.com/regions/_nc.htm#COASTAL These were all from the first hit. Wish I was going with you. TL MC

Response:

Thank you everyone for the replies. I E-mailed Capt. Churchill and am going to give serious thought to hiring him. Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try contacting Gordon Churchill, a local guide in that area at http://www.geocities.com/capt_gordon/ .  He’s a good fellow and has always provided good information whether you hire him or not.   Tom I am planning a trip to the Outer Banks of NC in August, probably staying on Cedar Island and boating over to the back of the core banks where I would like to do some fly fishing. My fly fishing experience is limited to cold water trout streams. I have no saltwater fly fishing experience, and I have not visited the Outer Banks before. Is my plan reasonable? Is the western side of the national seashore good for fly fishing? Are the waters around Cedar Island good for fly fishing? What species of fish can I expect to catch in this area on flies? What flies are good for use in this area? Thank you, Bob

Response:

Question:

Now I’ve started up to the AuSable several times but I have to drive past my favorite river and never seem to get past it. I think I’ll have to force myself.

Heh heh, I’m just the opposite – I keep meaning to fish other waters, but never get off the W Branch AuSable  Where do you fish – Saranac, E Branch, smaller streams?  There are supposed to be some nice native brookie streams nearby.  One time I got lost and fished a little stretch of water that I believe was below AuSable Forks, so technically it wouldn’t have been the W Branch Before you buy.

Response:

Nice report.  Wish I was there. TL MC

This is the Ausable, or AuSable, as opposed to the Au Sable in Michigan.

The

Response:

Hmmm, As luck would have it I have to be in the adirondacks from Friday night till Sunday morning without the family and only a 20 minute commitment in Lake George on Saturday morning. Now I’ve started up to the AuSable several times but I have to drive past my favorite river and never seem to get past it. I think I’ll have to force myself. Are there any other Roffians who want to fish the AuSable on  Saturday? Paul

This is the Ausable, or AuSable, as opposed to the Au Sable in Michigan.

The [snip] – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Regards, Jeff

Response:

"JeffC 1474"  wrote… Drove through the Adirondacks Wednesday night, and the late sunset was nice so I could enjoy the scenic drive.  If you drive through this area, be careful – it’s the second year in a row I got stopped for speeding.  I was coming out of a 35 and got up to 53 about 50 yards before the 55 sign started.  He let me off, but made the point that this is not just a hightway, but there could be pedestrians crossing at the little village around the next turn.

It would certainly have been poetic justice had he "thrown the book" at you. <g (Sorry, couldn’t resist.) –Steve (it’s good to hear from you Jeff!)

Response:

This is the Ausable, or AuSable, as opposed to the Au Sable in Michigan.  The Ausable is a reasonably big, rocky river, smaller than the Delaware, but similar in character to what I would imagine some western rivers to be like, if a little smaller.  It’s one of my favorite, if not my favorite, stream I’ve ever fished. Drove through the Adirondacks Wednesday night, and the late sunset was nice so I could enjoy the scenic drive.  If you drive through this area, be careful – it’s the second year in a row I got stopped for speeding.  I was coming out of a 35 and got up to 53 about 50 yards before the 55 sign started.  He let me off, but made the point that this is not just a hightway, but there could be pedestrians crossing at the little village around the next turn. If I don’t stop in Lake Placid, my first stop is always at Fran Betters’ Adirondack Sport Shop on 86 in Wilmington.  The big sign with a girl catching her fly on her skirt and pulling it up is still there, but there’s a new one that says "FRAN IS BACK!"  Fran is famous in those parts as a fly tier and fisherman, and knows the W Branch Ausable probably better than anyone.  He developed patterns such as the Ausable Wulff.  Fran is getting on in years and last year leased the business to another man.  Rumours run wild about what happened, but the facts are that it ended on bad terms, Fran is back in the shop, and the other guy opened a new shop nearby. www.ausablewulff.com Luckily the light was still on at 10 so I could get the stream report and any flies I’d need for the next day.  There are shops in the area with a better inventory and more modern fixtures, but none with as much character.  It’s a fine place to hang out and shoot the shit and collect fishing reports as fishermen filter in and out.  Fran recommended some golden stones and March Brown dries, among other things.  I was surprised because I didn’t even know there *were* yellow stoneflies there, just black.  You can’t tell by looking at the nymphal shucks they leave on the rocks, and I had never tried to collect any from the stream.  I headed over to The Bunkhouse which can be reserved through the shop.  It’s $15 a night, a total dive, but a great place to stay if you’re fishing there.  You can stay at some prissy lodge if you want, but real fishermen stay at The Bunkhouse.  There is usually sports on TV and beer drinking in the living room and late night tying sessions at the big table in the kitchen.  An alternative he-man accomodation would be a tent at the Wilmington Notch campsite on the other side of the river from Whiteface Mt., site of the Olympic skiing. Headed out to the water in the morning.  What a difference a year makes.  Last year at this same time the water was 68 in the morning up to 72 in the afternoon, and levels were low during drought conditions, and they were warning about stressed out fish.  I had done better than many people because I headed toward water upstream near the ski jumps, where it is more shaded and a couple degrees cooler, and in the well-oxygenated water below the Wilmington dam. Also I was willing to accept smaller fish, 6-13", and every one was hard fighting and healthy.  There are a lot of big fish in this river, and some people feel like they fail if they don’t catch a 20 incher, but the conditions just weren’t right.  The trout were going nuts over big yellow stimulators.  I did have one big fish break my line in the upstream section, which would have been a real trophy in that area, and I vowed to challenge it again this year. But I changed my mind since the conditions were so different now – 54 degree water temp and higher water.  BTW, the water in this river tends to have a tea stain color.  Fran recommends all-Maxima Chameleon leaders, including the tippet.  He sells them there if you don’t like to make your own. I fished in the 5 mile catch and release section, which I rarely do since it can get crowded.  But this section contains extremes of water type, from slow, pond-like pools to rough, bouldery water with deeper runs and some gorge-like sections.  I fished some rough water with deeper runs,  high-sticking the golden stone nymphs with weight.  Right away I got a 14" rainbow, which unfortunately did not fight too hard and looked fresh off the stocking truck.  Fortunately, every *other* fish I caught that day appeared to be a holdover fish.  Next came a tough 15" brown, and then a 13" brown.  The takes were subtle, but did not prepare me for the subtleness of the next take. I was sure I had hung bottom.  I tried to pull it free, but it wouldn’t budge. Then I put a lot of pressure on it from an upstream angle – nothing.  I was getting ready to break the line when all of a sudden the fish started rolling to the surface flashing its side.  I had so much pressure on the line that the fly pulled out and rocketed straight into a tree overhead and I couldn’t get it out – salt rubbed in the wound – one nymph down, one to go.  It looked about 18" but felt like 20 lbs – weird.  Ready for the most subtle of takes now, the next cast went into a deep, swirling eddy.  The take was so strong and sudden that it scared the crap out of me, and I ripped the fly right out of its mouth.  And…. you guessed it – straight into the same tree overhead.  Well, black nymphs from now on  Then for the next hour and a half – not a single take (as far as I could tell.) I’m fairly athletic, but I was having a hard time wading the rougher water near the middle of the river.  I finally broke down and went back to the shop to get a wading staff, which was a big help later.  Never thought I’d see the day Ironically, it caused my only injury – it was dragging behind me when I slipped a little.  I fell toward the staff, which was wedged against a rock, and drove the handle deep into the side of my thigh.  I’ve got a big purple knot there now the size of a lemon. I headed below the Wilmingtion dam about a half mile or so.  This is very nice, moderate wading in terms of difficulty, riffly pocket water with some of those semi-pool, semi-broken-water areas that are my personal favorite for dry flies.  There was still no surface activity even though there were quite a few caddis in the air and the occasional sulphur.  No more action on the nymphs.  I finally saw some sporadic rises and started to fish dries – there were a couple March Browns coming off now.  I had a couple missed fish, which made me think I was striking too soon, until I sat and watched for awhile and realized they were missing (or refusing) the naturals too!  Crazy fish.  This was hard to determine though since there was only 1 rise about every 5 minutes.  I hiked a little and unfortunately must have caught my fly patch with my Haystack March Brown dries on it on a tree and lost it. Rummaging through the box, I finally came across an old one I tied probably 20 years ago, traditional pattern.  And… it worked.  For some reason, a fish took that old March Brown with more gusto than any fish took any natural I saw – it was hooked deep in the roof of its mouth – 13" brown.  Go figure.  The rain started a little and the wind started whipping up hard so I went back to nymphs – a big black stone that I picked out of a tree limb earlier, left behind by a caster in my league, presumably.  As it drifted toward a fast chute created by 2 boulders, it got picked up by a large fish.  Unfortunately as the fish rose into the fast water in the chute, I couldn’t  control it.  It was hard enough to wade into position to make the cast, let alone try and run downstream of the fish.  I put all the pressure on it I could, but all it did was hold it in place in that chute.  I watched it roll around for 5 or 6 seconds before it pulled off – about 20".  On the way back up I picked up another 10" brown, and an 8 incher that appeared to be stream bred. That night at the shop (which is also a house), I was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time and invited to stay for dinner with Fran and Jan and a couple guides (hint: the kitchen door at dinner time is usually the right place at the right time  It was a great opportunity to hear Fran and the guys tell stories and ask for some tips.  Fran is generous with his time and help.  Every couple weeks he gives a free cookout and informal fly casting clinic.  I’ve seen him many times patiently explain things to newcomers that I know he’s explained hundreds of times before.  And he is no snob – he will suggest where and how to fish whether you want to use flies, spinners, or worms. A guide spoke of the previous day’s client.  He asked the client what his casting ability was, so he could decide where and how to fish.  The reply was "I have a Sage SP."  !!  The guy was apparently a dickhead and didn’t want to listen to the recommended streamer fishing technique for a certain stretch.  He was riding high as he hooked a nice fish.  The guide nearly broke out in laughter when it turned out to be a sucker, and foul hooked to boot.  Then the guide pulled out an 18" rainbow from the same pool.  He knew there would be no tip, but he just couldn’t resist Regards, Jeff

Response:

Question:

Hi, I live in Manitoba, and am planning a trip to Alaska next summer.  Would like to fly to Vancouver, and rent a motorhome to drive along the coast to Alaska. There are no roads along the coast. It would be nice, but the cost of constructing a coastal route from Vancouver to Alaska would rival or surpass the cost of the Apollo moon program. There are ferries, though. You need to book well in advance. Consider booking NOW.

That’s completely correct – Val, consider booking now.   Only have two weeks holidays.  If anyone has done this or has any info such as where to rent the motorhome, and the best approach to the trip, length of time needed, etc, please post, or email direct to Two weeks is pushing it very, very hard. I went this summer from Vancouver. This is where I live. Keep the distances in mind. Vancouver to Whitehorse in the Yukon is about 2700km (1677miles) using the Alaska Highway route. You take it from there. Essentially, you would spend the majority of your vacation driving.

This is true — it is possible to do the trip in two weeks…but you would be spending an uncomfortable amount of time actually behind the wheel driving. It is possible to do like 400 miles a day though. Its possible that Peter is giving you a more realistic impression than I. after all, it is a vacation! Hans

Response:

Hi, I live in Manitoba, and am planning a trip to Alaska next summer.  Would like to fly to Vancouver, and rent a motorhome to drive along the coast to Alaska.  Only have two weeks holidays.  If anyone has done this or has any info such as where to rent the motorhome, and the best approach to the trip, length of time needed, etc, please post, or email direct to Thanks for the help!

Since you have only two weeks, you might enjoy your vacation more if you flew directly to Alaska and rented the motorhome in Anchorage.  There are tons of rentals available but you should book way early, like 3 to 6 months in advance to assure you of the size and type of unit you would like to rent. If you have never been to Alaska, I would spend 1 week north of Anchorage (i.e. Fairbanks, Denali, etc.) and 1 week south of Anchorage on the Kenai Penninsula (Seward, Kenai, Homer).  Also it is possible that by next summer you may be able to drive to Whittier, which will give you easy road access to Prince William sound.(This project was well on its way this summer when I was there).  Previously Whittier was only accesable by train, however some of the money from the Valdez oil spill is being used to finance this project.  I have made this trip to Alaska every late August/September (I like to fish for Silver’s on the Kenai river and most of those pesky tourists have gone home)for the last 12 years. E-mail me if I can help. Darwin

Response:

Hi, I live in Manitoba, and am planning a trip to Alaska next summer.  Would like to fly to Vancouver, and rent a motorhome to drive along the coast to Alaska.

There are no roads along the coast. It would be nice, but the cost of constructing a coastal route from Vancouver to Alaska would rival or surpass the cost of the Apollo moon program. There are ferries, though. You need to book well in advance. Consider booking NOW.   Only have two weeks holidays.  If anyone has done this or has any info such as where to rent the motorhome, and the best approach to the trip, length of time needed, etc, please post, or email direct to

Two weeks is pushing it very, very hard. I went this summer from Vancouver. This is where I live. Keep the distances in mind. Vancouver to Whitehorse in the Yukon is about 2700km (1677miles) using the Alaska Highway route. You take it from there. Essentially, you would spend the majority of your vacation driving. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Hi, I live in Manitoba, and am planning a trip to Alaska next summer.  Would like to fly to Vancouver, and rent a motorhome to drive along the coast to Alaska.  Only have two weeks holidays.  If anyone has done this or has any info such as where to rent the motorhome, and the best approach to the trip, length of time needed, etc, please post, or email direct to Thanks for the help!

Well, Val, the only problem with your plan is that there isn’t a road up the coast to Alaska for you to drive your motorhome on. I’m not being a smart-alex here, its really true- look at a road atlas. Your options are the Alaska Marine Highway system – alittle expensive to put a RV on. You should plan everything early and make your reservation as early as possible – you can board the ferries in Bellingham WA, with limited service to Prince Rupert, B.C. as well. AMHS:  http://www.dot.state.ak.us/external/amhs/home.html The AMHS will passes through all but the really tiny hamlets and fishing villages in the islands of SE Alaska. Beautiful places, but you’ll have to really juggle your reservations in order to get off one ferry and onto another to get around on in an RV – the ferry system schedule isn’t really setup for that kind of thing. To drive to Alaska, the ALCAN highway runs far inland, from Dawson Creek, BC, through Ft Nelson, Ft St John, Watson Lake and Whitehorse, Yukon -the ALCAN Highway ends in Fairbanks, Alaska and from there Denali Park is just a 1/2 days drive. The Alaska Highway is a very nice long drive, and has its times when it passes through some really remarkable scenery. There is a very nice "manual" for the ALCAN: http://www.themilepost.com/ The Mile Post is full of useful information for travellers along the Alaska (ALCAN) Highway. Its nice that your starting your planning process now. Hope you have a great trip! Two weeks should be plenty of time. Hans, Juneau AK

Response:

Hi, I live in Manitoba, and am planning a trip to Alaska next summer.  Would like to fly to Vancouver, and rent a motorhome to drive along the coast to Alaska.  Only have two weeks holidays.  If anyone has done this or has any info such as where to rent the motorhome, and the best approach to the trip, length of time needed, etc, please post, or email direct to Thanks for the help!

Response:

Question:

You don’t need a video to tell you that if the lines breaking you need a higher wt line.  When guides say to you "there’s no way you need more than a 4lb tippet on that river" what they really mean is that IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF you had the shuttle, boat and knowledge of where the holes were, that even though the current was raging back at the public fishing area you could fish 2-4lb leader in the deep wide holes they fish.  They don’t know that you need a 10lb leader back where the currents raging and the fish can get out sideways in it.  So when they tell you there’s no way you need anything bigger than a 5.1lb tippet (or whatever they claim is the max wt used by "real fishermen")

Unless one has no ability at all to play a fish properly, he will certainly land more fish on a heavier tippet.   At the same time, it is certainly possible to successfully land a big fish on a very light tippet.   On the Salmon River, though, (and anywhere for that matter) you need to balance more than just landing a fish against tippet strength.   If you play a fish for 45 minutes on a 4 lb tippet, everyone around you has to keep their lines out of the water and thumbs up their asses while you have a good time all by yourself.   And when you have it on the beach, it will be dead beat and no candidate for c&r if you are so inclined.   On the other hand, boy was that fun. If you tie on a big heavy tippet, you’ll be able to put a lot more pressure on the fish and get it to the beach more quickly.   Go too far in this direction, however, and you may as well be one of the brainless meat fishermen spin casting with 30 lb mono to haul ‘em in. For me, a guy of below average ability, I’ve found 8 or 10 lb to be quite sufficient on the Salmon R. to give me a good balance of sport, success, and courtesy.   I will add that if you are breaking off a lot, be sure it’s not your knots.

Response:

You don’t need a video to tell you that if the lines breaking you need a higher wt line.  When guides say to you "there’s no way you need more than a 4lb tippet on that river" what they really mean is that IFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF you had the shuttle, boat and knowledge of where the holes were, that even though the current was raging back at the public fishing area you could fish 2-4lb leader in the deep wide holes they fish.  They don’t know that you need a 10lb leader back where the currents raging and the fish can get out sideways in it.  So when they tell you there’s no way you need anything bigger than a 5.1lb tippet (or whatever they claim is the max wt used by "real fishermen") Tie your own tappered leaders.  I was reading in a book on al fly fishing just the other nite that the author reccomends making your tappered leader from 40, 30, 20 and 18in of material of 25, 20, 15, and 10lb line respectively.  Good luck, I hope this has been some help. Fished the Salmon River in Pulaski, New York with a fly rod this week and found the experience to be quite different from that of dry fly fishing.  I hooked and broke off three fish and would like any recommendations on:  books/videos relate to this type of fishing, recs on a good entry level rod and reel for

– Cordially, Mike McNally Speculators may do no harm as bubbles on a steady stream of enterprise. But the position is serious when enterprise becomes the bubble on a whirlpool of speculation.               –John Maynard Keynes

Response:

You don’t need a video to tell you that if the lines breaking you need a higher wt line.  When guides say to you "there’s no way you need more than a 4lb tippet on that river" what they really mean

<snip Amen. I have used a short (7 ft) 10 or 12 lb tippet on my sink tip, and a 12 ft 8 lb tippet for salmon and steelhead for years. Yep, I lose some still, but I have caught (and released) more than 150 salmon this fall alone.

Response:

I just got Flies for Steelhead by Farrow Allen and Dick Stewart from Lyons Press (~$20 softcover). The photography is quite good and it has a thorough collection of patterns from different regions of the country. The flies in the photos are tied either by the inventor of the pattern or by a well known tyer from the region of origin.  Great Lakes Steelhead – A Guided Tour for Fly Anglers from Back Country Press ($20) is a great book by Bob Linsenmann and Steve Nevala (fun reading).  There is a brief but very practical sections on techniques, equipment, etc in the beginning. The rest of the book is a collection of essays collected from these guys going fishing with a number of guides in their home waters.  Fly Fishing for Salmon and Steelhead of the Great Lakes by Ken Filkins ($17 Wilderness Books – hard to find but available on www.amazon.com).  This book mostly emphasizes chuck and duck type fishing but has a really good section on fish attitudes towards different types of flies & presentations thus explaining (or at least stating) why many west coast techniques are only effective during a short period of the steelhead’s migration into midwestern tributaries.  I’ve been using a Scientific Anglers System 2m 8/9.  It’s a reasonably inexpensive and very reliable disc drag reel.  The regular System 2 is quite heavy but I don’t know if the 2m is still in production.  As far as a rod is concerned I bought myself the cheapest one I could find, a St. Croix 9ft 9 weight Pro-Graphite.  With all the brush I run through, the slippery rocks, ice, hands made numb and clumsy by the bitter chill, I wouldn’t want to risk damaging an expensive stick.  Just letting you know what has worked well for me.  I don’t have the experience nor the moeny to really tell you what other options are available to you. Good Fishing.    Mu Young Lee         Ann Arbor, MI  o             oooo                          o   o   o o   o o o  o – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Fished the Salmon River in Pulaski, New York with a fly rod this week and found the experience to be quite different from that of dry fly fishing.  I hooked and broke off three fish and would like any recommendations on:  books/videos relate to this type of fishing, recs on a good entry level rod and reel for

Response:

Fished the Salmon River in Pulaski, New York with a fly rod this week and found the experience to be quite different from that of dry fly fishing.  I hooked and broke off three fish and would like any recommendations on:  books/videos relate to this type of fishing, recs on a good entry level rod and reel for

It seems to be normal to break off 3 fish in this sort of fishing: but not normal to break off 100 per cent of hookups. The range of tackle is from medium (say 6 weight rod with 2x or 6 lb. tippets) to strong (8 or 9 weight, tippets 0X or 12 lb.) This river is sufficiently free of obstructions that you can fish the lighter tackle — provided you have a first-class reel, because its drag is important.  (Heavier tackle is useful in smaller Michigan or Ontario steelhead rivers.) Winter freshwater salmon and steelhead seem not to be leader shy.  They may or may not avoid sideways drag: but the essential point is to be able to present the fly as deep as the fish’s holding depth, whatever that is.  I have known people to make special sinking leaders (coated with powdered led embedded in glue) for this purpose. — |  Donald Phillipson, 4180 Boundary Road, Carlsbad Springs,  | |        Ontario, Canada, K0A 1K0, tel. 613 822 0734         |

Response:

Fished the Salmon River in Pulaski, New York with a fly rod this week and found the experience to be quite different from that of dry fly fishing.  I hooked and broke off three fish and would like any recommendations on:  books/videos relate to this type of fishing, recs on a good entry level rod and reel for

Response:

Question:

I’ll be in southern Alabama in July–Eastern Mobile Bay/Gulf Shores area–and in addition to surf fishing hope to do some flyfishing as well. Has anyone had any experience in this area? Any locations to recommend? I’ve noted a Weeks Bay wildlife area, as well as some other bays and lagoons…what’s running in July and what flys will call up the fish? Any info is appreciated, and thanks.         JK/Newport, KY

Response:

I’ll be in southern Alabama in July–Eastern Mobile Bay/Gulf Shores area–and in addition to surf fishing hope to do some flyfishing as well. Has anyone had any experience in this area? Any locations to recommend? I’ve noted a Weeks Bay wildlife area, as well as some other bays and lagoons…what’s running in July and what flys will call up the fish? Any info is appreciated, and thanks.

I have fished Fort Morgan & Gulf Shores area for many years.  A few years ago I began Saltwater Fly fishing with decent success.  If you fish early in the morning and late in the afternoon you stand a chance of catching Bluefish, Skipjack (ladyfish), occasional redfish, and speckled trout.  Mostly fish clouser minnows, and basically any minnow pattern in white or yellow base color.  We have had much luck attaching a popper to the line about 18 to 24 inches above the fly.  If you happen to catch a school of feeding fish close to the beach, you are in for much excitement.  Plan on using a shooting taper line or a floating line with a sink tip.  The wind can be tough at times and casting is a bear.  Best of Luck,  BCC

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Question:

iI would like to thank all who responded to my request for books on "fly patterns". I now have a realy good list to choose from. I’m sure it will keep me busy all winter. Thanks Again

Response:

Hi Gerald Happy to help, that’s what this newsgroup is all about. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

Question:

writes:    A lot of people are touting the blood knot.

For more interesting reading on knots, including blood knots, try the current issue of FLY FISHERMEN where their test indicate that only two knots retain 100% line strength, given current tippet materials: the Palomar and the Trilene knot. Very interesting…

Response:

I gave up on the clinch and trilene this year because they kept pulling out on big fish, despite very cautious tying. I quit using them because I decided

Without commenting on which knots are best, let me point out that most break-offs will occur at a knot, no matter which knot you use.  The UIAA routinely tests mountaineering ropes, and this is common knowlege to such testing agencies.  It makes intuitive sense when you think about it: stress is concentrated at the bends in a knot. — -Wayne Trzyna

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  A lot of people are touting the blood knot. Blood knots are not as good as they used to be! The newer multi polymer monofilaments are so hard and slick, the blood knot (and the clinch, inproved clinch, and Trilene knots) does not bite. We have a very sophisticated (read expensive) motor driven strain guage device that tests lines and knots to .01 pounds. 7 turn blood knots on Orvis SSS, Dai Riki, and Umpqua pull themselves apart at somewhere around 60-70% of the material breaking strength.

Ralph, I’ve abandoned the blood-knot alltogether because I’ve noticed an alarming decrease in strength in that connection with the new leader materials in recent years. I was beginning to fear that my own ability to tie the knot effectively had diminished, but your breaking strength measurements tell the real story. I now use the double-surgeon’s knot to connect the tapering segments of my leader and the double-surgeon’s loop-to-loop connection to attach tippets. Have you had the opportunity to measure the breaking strength of double-surgeons knots? Does the triple-surgeon’s provide significant additional strength? Thanks, Fred

Response:

  A lot of people are touting the blood knot. Blood knots are not as good as they used to be! The newer multi polymer monofilaments are so hard and slick, the blood knot (and the clinch, inproved clinch, and Trilene knots) does not bite. We have a very sophisticated (read expensive) motor driven strain guage device that tests lines and knots to .01 pounds. 7 turn blood knots on Orvis SSS, Dai Riki, and Umpqua pull themselves apart at somewhere around 60-70% of the material breaking strength.

I gave up on the clinch and trilene this year because they kept pulling out on big fish, despite very cautious tying. I quit using them because I decided that after all these years of using them I must have lost the ability to tie them properly ! I never suspected the mono may be a contributing factor. Used the non-slip mono loop all year and it worked pretty well for me. I use double surgeon’s loops to join tippet to butt (when I use a butt).                                                 jc

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7 turn blood knots on Orvis SSS, Dai Riki, and Umpqua pull themselves apart at somewhere around 60-70% of the material breaking strength. Ralph,

Thanks for telling me the names of leader material to avoid when constructing tapered leaders. Ernie Harrison

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   A lot of people are touting the blood knot. Blood knots are not as good as they used to be! The newer multi polymer monofilaments are so hard and slick, the blood knot (and the clinch, inproved clinch, and Trilene knots) does not bite. We have a very sophisticated (read expensive) motor driven strain guage device that tests lines and knots to .01 pounds. 7 turn blood knots on Orvis SSS, Dai Riki, and Umpqua pull themselves apart at somewhere around 60-70% of the material breaking strength. I gave up on the clinch and trilene this year because they kept pulling out on big fish, despite very cautious tying. I quit using them because I decided that after all these years of using them I must have lost the ability to tie them properly ! I never suspected the mono may be a contributing factor. Used the non-slip mono loop all year and it worked pretty well for me. I use double surgeon’s loops to join tippet to butt (when I use a butt).                       jc

I’ve noticed the same thing with blood knots!  Thanks for the explanation.  I replaced the blood knot with the triple surgeons knot for any line/line connection.  According to a recent study, this line holds 100% of the weaker lines strength, wet or dry.  It’s simple to tie.  The only problem is that the any of the popular "double line through the eye" knots seem to be about the strongest, most durable knot I can find.  Anyone got a very strong, non-tightening loop knot as I fish for Stripers and like the free swing for the fly.  Most loops that I tie either slip or break and I’m looking for alternatives.  Most tippets I use are from 12-24lb Dai Rikki.  Thanks.     Tim —- "Just say no to bait"

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Hi Dan! Thanks for the kind words regarding the slide show.         Re: blood knots. Your formula for X number of turns for X size tippet is rational.          We lubricate the line with KY jelly (it is water soluble unlike silicone) prior to drawing up the knots. Then we soak the line in water to a). remove the lubricant, and b) to test the wet strength of the line and knot. It defies common sense to depend on dry strength for fishing line; however, I’ve NEVER seen anyone else do it.          Wet testing demonstrates some pretty wierd changes in tippet diameter, static strength, dynamic strength, stretch, and abraision resistance. The fluorocarbon lines really shine when compared against standard nylon and multi polymer monofilaments.         You probably want to know what leaders I use?! Umpqua pre tapered leaders because I get them at cost. I replace the tippet section with Dai Rikki Velvet for normal (trout) conditions or with Dai Rikki Diver when I need abraision resistance (toothy critters or abraisive bottom structure).         Tight lines, Ralph —

Response:

   A lot of people are touting the blood knot. Blood knots are not as good as they used to be! The newer multi polymer monofilaments are so hard and slick, the blood knot (and the clinch, inproved clinch, and Trilene knots) does not bite. We have a very sophisticated (read expensive) motor driven strain guage device that tests lines and knots to .01 pounds. 7 turn blood knots on Orvis SSS, Dai Riki, and Umpqua pull themselves apart at somewhere around 60-70% of the material breaking strength.    Back to back uni- knots are excellent as are three turn surgeons knots. I still use blood knots on the heavier parts of my leader because the line is so strong there, someting up front is going to break even though the blood knots is not 100%. Blood knots look cool, sound neat as they click through the guides and don’t tend to catch as much gunk as other joining knots. In short I like ‘em alot but use them with with prejudice.    The strongest loop knot for attaching flies is the monofilamnet loop knot as seen in Kreh’s new knot book. Lefty claims the uni-knot is weak, but our machine says it consistently tests 90-100%. In practice it’s easy to tie and doesn’t take up as mucj material as the monofilament loop knot. Its big disadvantage is that the loop cinches up where the monofilament loop knot is permanent.    tight knots! Ralph —

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Question:

I’m after a good method to clean both floating and sinking flylines? Also does any one have a good method of removing the coil out of lines and making them subtle again (the lines are Cortlands and are only one season old, hence I don’t wish to replace them quite yet). Many thanks,  Steve.

Response:

Steve, Fly lines can be cleaned with mild detergents and water (like dishwashing liquid) to remove most dirt and scum.  If the line is really dirty you can step up to a more concentrated cleaner like 409 or Fantastic.  Quality fly line coatings are PVC based and not adversely effected by common cleaning materials.  We even use lacquer thinner to clean the tar and dirt off of the "street" lines used for rod demos here at the shop without adverse effect, although I wouldn’t recommend it unless absolutely necessary. After cleaning, the line should be treated with a good line dressing to rejuvinate the surface lubricants and increase shootability.  The line dressing may also help increase the suppleness of your line and reduce coiling. Good Luck! Clay

Response:

The best flyline cleaner we have found is distributed by Umpqua Feather Merchants and is called "Glide." Glide not only cleans the dirt and grime off of the line but it also leaves a slick coating behind which adds to the shootability of your line. They also sell plastic boxes with foam inserts that you pull your line thorugh to strip the dirt and coat the line. The whole setup will run you about ten bucks. Let me know if you’re having trouble finding it. As far as coils go, I imagine that you’re referring to your sinking line primarily. I have yet to find a full proof method for combatting this problem. My only reccomendation is to not use a leather leader straightener because you can’t tell how much heat/friction you’re generating and can easily melt the exterior coating on your lines. Good Luck and I’m anxious to hear if you receive any responses helping to cure this problem. Western Rivers Flyfisher {full service fly shop and outfitter} 867 East 900 South – SLC, UT 84105 (800)545-4312~~(801)521-6424~~fax(801)521-6329 Green River reports, Utah fishing conditions, and statewide guide info.

Response:

The best flyline cleaner we have found is distributed by Umpqua Feather Merchants and is called "Glide." …. line. The whole setup will run you about ten bucks. Let me know if you’re having trouble finding it. Western Rivers Flyfisher {full service fly shop and outfitter}

And I think I know where… I was at the Delaware River Club last weekend and I asked Bob Wills about a cleaner.  He said, "wanna see what I use?" and he held up a Armoral sprayer and then he gave me a couple of the Cortland pads. That’s that kind of treatment that will keep me coming back to a flyshop. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems  Ithaca, NY

Response:

[snipped the recommendation on line cleaner] As far as coils go, I imagine that you’re referring to your sinking line primarily. I have yet to find a full proof method for combatting this problem. My only reccomendation is to not use a leather leader straightener because you can’t tell how much heat/friction you’re generating and can easily melt the exterior coating on your lines. Good Luck and I’m anxious to hear if you receive any responses helping to cure this problem.

I’ve found that the only way to take the "coil" out of fly lines – especially in with saltwater lines in cold weather – is to "stretch" the line out. I just grab about 4-5 feet of line between both hands, build up some stretching force – holding it for a few seconds – then slide the line along to do the next 4-5 feet, until I’ve gotten about 60-70 feet of the line straightened out. Tedious to be sure, but it works, and AFAIK there’s no risk to damaging the line. It’s well worth the 5 or so minutes it takes to stretch out the "memory"… <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.    Alpha Server Engineering  < <         "Read this and nobody gets hurt ;^)"         < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Response:

My vote for a great fly line cleaner goes to good ol’ Armor All.  The   stuff works great to clean and float your line. It also lubricates the   line nicely, so your line really screams through the guides,  making your casts easier and farther.  You can buy a large size bottle in the auto   section of K mart, Walmart, etc., for just a few dollars, and it will   last you for years.  I keep a small plastic squirt bottle filled and in   my vest, along with a small rag to apply it. Dale Owens

ArmorAll works fine short term, but long term causes premature line failure.  As I understand the process, AA accelerates the built in leaching process of the plasticizers in the line material.  Note that in the past many people used ArmorAll for lines AND waders (Seal Dris) with initial positive results from appearance point of view but detrimental results to longevity.                         Mike in PDX                "When the trout are lost, smash the state."                                            Tom McGuane

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Jon,         I had one reply that reccomended laying my line out in the sun for an hour or so and then giving it a gentle strech, simple and it worked a treat.  Thanks for the info re flyline cleaner, I ended up giving them a wash in a mild Lissapol (non-ionic detergent) and warm water solution, it seemed to remove the dirt and old silicone quite well, I then redressed the dry line with silicone and its as good as new.                                                  Steve Jackson                                                  Canberra, Australia

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Question:

Has anyone been able to find fishable water within 2 hours of Denver? I tried several streams in RMNP last weekend but they are all running high and fast. Cheeseman is at about 2000 CFS. The Big Thompson is currently running at about 300CFS below Lake Estes and although I haven’t seen the river at this volume it sounds fishable (?). Any tips would be GREATLY appreciated!

Response:

Has anyone been able to find fishable water within 2 hours of Denver? I tried several streams in RMNP last weekend but they are all running high and fast. Cheeseman is at about 2000 CFS. The Big Thompson is currently running at about 300CFS below Lake Estes and although I haven’t seen the river at this volume it sounds fishable (?). Any tips would be GREATLY appreciated!

Hiya Justin! I have been experiencing the same problems with blown out streams in Colorado until very recently. Upon realizing that any stream attempt was going to be a disaster, I begrudgingly decided to try my hand at some small lakes. Traditionally, I am the worlds WORST lake fisherman with a fly. I usually cannot catch ANYTHING, but I figured that this option was better than drowning in a swollen river. On a whim, I decided to try fishing the lake at the bottom of St. Mary’s Glacier on Saturday. The fishing was SO much fun that I took Monday off from work to do it again. That lake literally boils with rising brookies. Most of the fish are small (5-8 inches), but they aren’t very picky and it is one of the most beautiful spots around. Fishing there was a great confidence booster for me and while the fish weren’t big, they did end the frustration I have been having with my recent river trips. If you haven’t been there before, just take I-70 slightly past Idaho Springs to Fall River Road (Exit 238). Take fall river road up for quite a ways (You will go over spots of unpaved road) and eventually there is a small parking area on the right and wide rubble trail on the left. Hike up the trail on the left about 3/4 mile. Tie on just about anything and have fun. I caught a bunch on a #18 Blue Wing Olive, but I even took a few on a #12 Adams. Be prepared for funky weather. I got snowed on on Saturday and rained on on Moday. Tight Lines, Chad McArthur

Response:

Has anyone been able to find fishable water within 2 hours of Denver? I tried several streams in RMNP last weekend but they are all running high and fast. Cheeseman is at about 2000 CFS. The Big Thompson is currently running at about 300CFS below Lake Estes and although I haven’t seen the river at this volume it sounds fishable (?). Any tips would be GREATLY appreciated!

Decided to combat near terminal cabin fever and trucked up to S. but sure no crowds.  Caught three in three hours, including the nicest brown on that stretch in two years -18-19".  Wasn’t a lot of fun, tho, with insane tangles trying to cast three 3/0 split shots over top of willows behind.  Can’t wade out more than 3-4′, but fish are to be found close in if you can find some fairly slow water.  Took them all on big bright red worm.  Think Dick at Flies and Lies in Decker called it a "traditional ol’ English-tied worm".  You gotta be near spiritual about this sport to find these conditions a kick!!

Response:

The rivers have been less then ideal.  For myself, I have turned to one of my second favorite activities.  Fly fishing for Bluegill.  Here in the Grand Junction area we have a couple of places that are producing ‘gills to 9 inches plus.  On a four wt. they are a blast.  My E-Mail is I don’t mind company, I just value good fish too much to want to see the meat hunters showing up.

Response:

I’ll be coming out that way in August to visit my brother at CU.  I’ve been to S. Platte and Buffalo (man that place was really crowded), and Cloudland Canyon last spring but am really looking for something a little less crowded (and less touristy).  Need help in Atlanta, Jeff

Response:

Jeff, Since you will be in Boulder you could try the Cache La Poudre. It’s west of Ft. Collins. It has some prime water sites. Other places include the Frying Pan river near Basalt, CO and the Colorado river near

Response:

Question:

Does anyone know if fishing is permitted on the Prisons property of Spring Creek???                                        Brian

The answer to this question is yes and no.  You cannot fish on the prison property where it is posted. This includes a stretch above and below the area mentioned by another poster.  He is talking about turning onto Shiloh Road at the white church and fishing the Benner Springs hatchery stretch.  There has been quite a bit of controversy over this area in the past few years. Much of the access at Benner Springs has been taken away along with the parking which used to be available.  The Fish commission says it isn’t trying to keep people from fishing there but they have taken away parking, taken to closing the gates earlier, and generally made it very difficult to enjoy. The Yes part to your question about fishing prison land…most of where you can fish between Shiloh Road and the Paradise area IS prison land.  The DEC and prison have agreements.  If you fish anywhere in this stretch, the land surrounding the stream and up the hills, on both sides, is prison land. You’ll notice signs which post for trespass and No Hunting all along here. If you stick to the public access waters you ARE fishing prison land.  Can you fish the other posted areas of prison land…not legally.  It is your choice. For all the fantastic fishing available in the open waters I don’t feel the need to take a chance at hitting the posted waters.                              Scott

Response:

Does anyone know if fishing is permitted on the Prisons property of Spring Creek???                                         Brian —

Response:

Hi Brian,    I’ve fished on prison property near the fish hatchery below the State Trooper barracks.  I’m not sure of the name of the road but I can give you directions.  From State College head towards the Nittany Mall.  Get on Rt. 150 (Benner Pike) headed towards Bellefonte and take a left at the second Mall entrance (at the little white church).  Go down that road until you run into the prison property.  Do not take a left on Trout Road.  You’ll run into a gate and if you read the sign, they close the gate at 9:00PM. You must be out at that time, they’re pretty good about not closing the gate if they see cars parked there.  There are some big fish (16-24") in there.  E-Mail me at the Internet address below the next time you plan on fly-fishing, I try to get out everyday.  See you later.

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