Question:

rw wrote… How do you jump from spring creek fishing to Silver Creek?   ??? Could someone please explain to me what that means? Silver Creek IS a spring creek. It’s the finest spring creek I’ve ever seen.

The goggbly gook of the gizmo’s flux capacitor was fubared because of the do-hickey thingy malfunction due to an error of the whateveryacallit.   Thus Silver Creek has nothing to do with it? — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

Montana, for sake of good order, is the number one fly fishing state in the Untied States and it services more fly fishermen than any other because it has classic waters most of which are in the Jellybean Park area that lure them all, like "The Fire Hole!" etc. All States have pay as you go fly fishing Jeffrey.  Take it from here. It costs money to fly fish America, no matter where you go.  Outdoor Recreation is for two kinds of outdoorsmen.  Those who pay their way and poachers.  There is no middle ground. George Gehrke The Leaf Will Fall – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Like it or not, Outdoor Recreation IS a rich man’s sport.  It’s been this way a very long time Jeff. The POINT is – you said Two States that have more "Classic Trout Waters" above all others are first, Montana and second, Colorado.  Idaho trout waters are much too commercialized … By that you meant Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters – Well, what about "rod fees" in Montana?  DePuy’s Spring Creek, O’Hair’s/Armstrong’s Spring Creek:, Nelson’s Spring Creek, McCoy Ranch Spring Creeks, O’Dell in Ennis that I mentioned?  Most of these places are books months in advance for the busy season.  Sorry, if that’s your criteria for "classic", then Montana doesn’t make the list either.

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How do you jump from spring creek fishing to Silver Creek?  

??? Could someone please explain to me what that means? Silver Creek IS a spring creek. It’s the finest spring creek I’ve ever seen. Secondly, where does "Honor" have to do with joining anything?  

It’s like when an organization like the Nature Conservancy saves and restores a fantastic spring creek and then people begrudge them a modest donation for fishing it. Thirdly, the Nature Conservatory costs money and only working people can afford to pay for outdoor recreation which was one of my points and lastly, I didn’t screw up at all R.W.

It costs $25 a year to join. If you aren’t a member they request a $5/day donation to fish Silver Creek, but that’s VOLUNTARY. And you can just fish the excellent non-Conservancy water if it bothers you. No "appointments" are necessary in either case. Big time screw up. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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George Gehrke wrote… Wayne?  You seem to forget who was the first to suggest a "Conclave" for Roff.  In fact, someone in North Carolina even asked at the time, "What is a Conclave?" Naturally, I explained and the first Roff Conclave started.

Sorry George, but I am not buying this.  Perhaps you can provide the proof for you claim, but I searched google and came up with this: http://makeashorterlink.com/?X48B1164 Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly, rec.outdoors.fishing, alt.fishing http://makeashorterlink.com/?G4AB6264 The first mention I have found so far of a ROFF conclave. Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly http://makeashorterlink.com/?L2BB2164 Mr Vinsel’s first suggestion of a "conclave" Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly http://makeashorterlink.com/?M29B1364 The first  mention of "conclave" searched under the author "Mr G" regarding something other than a FFF conclave. Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly — Warren Henry’s Fork Clave info and Bozeman, MT fishing info www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

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You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, George.

Good post, many agree. <g — Charlie…

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How do you jump from spring creek fishing to Silver Creek?  Secondly, where does "Honor" have to do with joining anything?  Thirdly, the Nature Conservatory costs money and only working people can afford to pay for outdoor recreation which was one of my points and lastly, I didn’t screw up at all R.W. George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters – You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, George. Silver Creek is free of charge, and there’s no rod limit. All you need is a valid Idaho fishing license. If you fish in the Nature Conservancy you’re asked for a donation, but it’s voluntary. The honorable thing to do is to join the Nature Conservancy, which costs very little. There’s a stretch with excellent public access that’s every bit as good as the Conservancy. I’ve fished several times on Silver Creek when I saw no other anglers. I even took my dogs. If you go on the weekend during the Brown Drake hatch you’ll have some company. I avoid that. Some of the water is private, but much of the best part is public. You can even float-tube through private water because, unlike in "user friendly" Utah, Idaho property owners don’t own the creek. What’s more, Silver Creek is hardly typical of Idaho flyfishing. Admit it, George. You really fucked up on this one. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

Like it or not, Outdoor Recreation IS a rich man’s sport.  It’s been this way a very long time Jeff.

The POINT is – you said Two States that have more "Classic Trout Waters" above all others are first, Montana and second, Colorado.  Idaho trout waters are much too commercialized …

By that you meant Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters –

Well, what about "rod fees" in Montana?  DePuy’s Spring Creek, O’Hair’s/Armstrong’s Spring Creek:, Nelson’s Spring Creek, McCoy Ranch Spring Creeks, O’Dell in Ennis that I mentioned?  Most of these places are books months in advance for the busy season.  Sorry, if that’s your criteria for "classic", then Montana doesn’t make the list either.

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Since you seemed interested enough to answer, I assume you’d attend if there was one? Willi

        my heart is set on the henry’s fork.  i’ve been to colorado, but never to idaho.  the pictures are better up there. your friend in the old north state wayno

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Usually, it takes two to three days to understand and learn individual drainage systems besides the traveling.

heh heh  The worst thing a Conclave can do is try and fish too many waters.  I think the Colorado Conclave should pick only one main river per week.

Oh fer cryin’ out loud

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        my heart is set on the henry’s fork.  i’ve been to colorado, but never to idaho.  the pictures are better up there.

Hope you make it. I’m looking forward to a return trip. Some gorgeous country (the country right around Henry’s Fork isn’t as dramatic as it is around Steve’s place but beautiful in its own way) and LOTS of great water. Willi

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I’m in – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul         you have got to be kidding. your friend in the old north state wayno Since you seemed interested enough to answer, I assume you’d attend if there was one? Willi

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Hope you make it. I’m looking forward to a return trip. Some gorgeous country (the country right around Henry’s Fork isn’t as dramatic as it is around Steve’s place but beautiful in its own way) and LOTS of great water.

Wayno can probably find some decent postcards in Island Park. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Wayne?  You seem to forget who was the first to suggest a "Conclave" for Roff.  In fact, someone in North Carolina even asked at the time, "What is a Conclave?" Naturally, I explained and the first Roff Conclave started. Is your memory as long as your next step dear friend? sigh*! George Gehrke Mr. Conclave – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul         you have got to be kidding. your friend in the old north state wayno

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Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters – You think the most famous examples of that aren’t in Montana?  Shit, even the creek across the street from where I stayed in Ennis charged $50 a day to fish there – if they weren’t already booked.

Not to mention that it’s completely false. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters –

You don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about, George. Silver Creek is free of charge, and there’s no rod limit. All you need is a valid Idaho fishing license. If you fish in the Nature Conservancy you’re asked for a donation, but it’s voluntary. The honorable thing to do is to join the Nature Conservancy, which costs very little. There’s a stretch with excellent public access that’s every bit as good as the Conservancy. I’ve fished several times on Silver Creek when I saw no other anglers. I even took my dogs. If you go on the weekend during the Brown Drake hatch you’ll have some company. I avoid that. Some of the water is private, but much of the best part is public. You can even float-tube through private water because, unlike in "user friendly" Utah, Idaho property owners don’t own the creek. What’s more, Silver Creek is hardly typical of Idaho flyfishing. Admit it, George. You really fucked up on this one. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters – – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Idaho trout waters are much too commercialized and not user friendly as is Utah’s. I really wonder how you’ve come up with that one. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters –

You think the most famous examples of that aren’t in Montana?  Shit, even the creek across the street from where I stayed in Ennis charged $50 a day to fish there – if they weren’t already booked.

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Like it or not, Outdoor Recreation IS a rich man’s sport.  It’s been this way a very long time Jeff.   George Gehrke "Who’s Boat Carries 90 GALLONS of fuel" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Spring Creek fishing by appointment and bucks only, for starters – You think the most famous examples of that aren’t in Montana?  Shit, even the creek across the street from where I stayed in Ennis charged $50 a day to fish there – if they weren’t already booked.

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Idaho trout waters are much too commercialized and not user friendly as is Utah’s.  

I really wonder how you’ve come up with that one. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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Two States that have more "Classic Trout Waters" above all others are first, Montana and second, Colorado.  Wyoming waters are mostly wind blown, far and few in between but nice.  Idaho trout waters are much too commercialized and not user friendly as is Utah’s.  Oregon is a State of vast diversity as it Northern California up through the State of Washington.  Northern New Mexico is likewise rather restricted because of the large land grants but the San Juan is only a small window of what the main spur of the Rocky Mountain Chain has to offer away from main population areas.  But Colorado, and most anything on the WESTERN SIDE of the Continental Divide away from Denver is a mix that has variety beyond your wildest dreams if you’re willing to get away from the main roads.  Colorado is blessed with a perfect summer climate and her mountains bank enough snow to keep her trout streams balanced and cool though out the year.  A Conclave through Colorado down to the Delores River and the San Juan over a period of three to four weeks is a Conclave worth attending.   Usually, it takes two to three days to understand and learn individual drainage systems besides the traveling.  The worst thing a Conclave can do is try and fish too many waters.  I think the Colorado Conclave should pick only one main river per week. The other option is fish as you go.  Just travel along and stay by any river for as many days a caravan happens upon and everyone staying in a main commercial camp site with showers, etc. George Gehrke Winnebago Camping Bum – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul         you have got to be kidding. your friend in the old north state wayno Since you seemed interested enough to answer, I assume you’d attend if there was one? Willi

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Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul Why don’t you make it a reality?

Good Point!  I just left Colorado after living in the state for 35 years and was thinking a clave would be a good reason to return this summer…   If people are interested, I might be willing to put something together. Paul

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Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul         you have got to be kidding. your friend in the old north state wayno

Since you seemed interested enough to answer, I assume you’d attend if there was one? Willi

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Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul

Why don’t you make it a reality? Willi

Response:

Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul

        you have got to be kidding. your friend in the old north state wayno

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Someone mentioned the idea of a Colorado Clave a while back.  Perhaps George?  Is that clave going to turn into a reality? Paul

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Question:

Well we survived  . . .  barely. You see, it’s been raining, and it’s spring, and there’s been some snow melt.  That ends up with lots of high, dirty water.  We tried Friday, we tried Saturday, and tomorrow we’re going to the fishing show.  We know when we’re beat. Louie tried his nymphs, I tried my wets and Greg threw what ever he had but it made no difference – only the whistle trout were interested.   Louie did hook into one steelhead but since he had no idea what he was doing, he lost it.  The dumb ass – the only decent fish we were gonna see in those conditions and he lost it! On Friday, Louie puts on his new Patagonia waders, his new Patagonia, jacket, his new Patagonia whatever, . . . and one very shitty pair of boots.  At the end of the day, the boots had to go.  On Saturday, we went to Grindstone for new boots and Louie was outfitted with a new pair of Weinbrenners.  We’re suiting up and there’s Louie in his Patagonias (Orvis is officially fashion history) and there he is in his new boots, all set to fish with the tags still attached.  And I fish with this guy!!!!! Greg’s a little bemused by all of this and he’s beginning to wonder what he’s getting himself into.  I try to reassure him but the damage has been done.  Anyway we went, we came, we saw, we left defeated. Now we sit, drowning our sorrows in what ever is handy, ice wine, bordeaux, Macallans, Wild Turkey – hell, you make do with what you have. Cheers Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Louie did hook into one steelhead but since he had no idea what he was doing, he lost it.  The dumb ass – the only decent fish we were gonna see in those conditions and he lost it!

Well is he hooked? On Friday, Louie puts on his new Patagonia waders, his new Patagonia, jacket, his new Patagonia whatever

Speaking of Patagonia, I was fishing the surf a few weeks ago when suddenly all these people show up with fly gear.  I was packing up after having caught a croaker.  I never did too well in this spot and never saw anyone else fly fishing so it was a bit of a surprise to realize that I’m not the only fool who likes to hang around a polluted river mouth whipping tungsten-laden PVC through the air at the end of a graphite stick.  Turns out they work at Patagonia and often conduct *field research* after work. Mu

Response:

On Friday, Louie puts on his new Patagonia waders, his new Patagonia, jacket, his new Patagonia whatever, . . . and one very shitty pair of boots.  At the end of the day, the boots had to go.  On Saturday, we went to Grindstone for new boots and Louie was outfitted with a new pair of Weinbrenners.  We’re suiting up and there’s Louie in his Patagonias (Orvis is officially fashion history) and there he is in his new boots, all set to fish with the tags still attached.  And I fish with this guy!!!!!

Peter, part of the art of flyfishing is *lookg* right. Any one who looks the part earns the comment -"There’s a real fly fisher" If no fish are caught then it’s the dumb fish’s fault! I’ll bet the accommodation was first class though. — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

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Question:

I saw this thing being advertised on Ebay and I had to go to Leica’s site to see if it was for real.  It was.  What’s next?  Kodak starts making Brownie Starflash remakes for $500?

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Leica’s site to see if it was for real.  It was.  What’s next?  Kodak starts making Brownie Starflash remakes for $500? The Leica "O" has a great little recomputed 50 F/3.5 Elmar (4 element Tessar formula) lens! The Leica folks at Solms say is just the thing for reducing stress by freeing the photographer from the modern techno-wonder SLR! Using the "O" is like going fly fishing they say! Doug from Tumwater

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Question:

Finally!!!! a pertinent post to ROFF!!! waldo

#1 pickup line…."hey, nice tooth". Natty

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Thanks to all who have given their advice regarding my trip to somewhere in Maine in late June.  From what I have gleaned from your responses, I believe that I will have my best success on either the Rapid or the East outlet of Moosehead Lake. It sounds like I can not go wrong with either of these pieces of water.  If these waters are comparable, what are some of the things that would make you prefer one of these rivers over another? Quality fishing, lack of crowds, nearby lodges, wildness of scenery, etc.. Thanks, Brooktrout22 Ed

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Brooktrout22 writes: It sounds like I can not go wrong with either of these pieces of water.  If these waters are comparable, what are some of the things that would make you prefer one of these rivers over another? Quality fishing, lack of crowds, nearby lodges, wildness of scenery, etc.. Thanks, Brooktrout22 Ed

Ed, Lakewood Camps is super.  You can go to The East Outlet and you’ll probably catch fish, but Lakewood’s food and atmosphere is tops.  Plus, I think the Rapid fishes better than the East Outlet, with less crowds.  You can *drive* to the East Outlet.   You can’t drive to Lakewood (it is gated).  A boat picks you up at South Arm.    "Outsiders" have to either boat or walk in, so it is less crowded than EO.    The only time I fish EO is in October when the crowds are nil and it is the only place you can still fish.  JMO, of course.  I will be at Lakewood in late June  (25 – 30) with my grandsons and could help you with the river.  Both rivers have their idiosyncrasies. Dave L.

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If these waters are comparable, what are some of the things that would make you prefer one of these rivers over another?

Hard question. Tough choice. There are camps at the headwaters of the Outlet and also at Middledam on the Rapid. I can’t vouch for the outlet as I’ve never stayed there, but Lakewood camps are quite nice and they take good care of you. Plan on gaining weight if you stay there. Both rivers are fairly wild once you get downstream a bit. I expect that the ‘famous’ pools of each have their crowds, and both have plenty of water if you’re willing to walk a bit. Based on my limited fishing of the Rapid my opinion is that the outlet has more large fish, but you will catch more fish at the Rapid and the Rapid also has the opportunity for you to catch a genuine wild brookie of prodigious size. To be fair to the outlet there are some very large brookies there as well, but it’s reputation is that of a salmon river, not a brook trout river. I once even caught a fairly skinny toque (Lake Trout) in the outlet as well that fought about as hard as 2 foot stick. late June is prime time on both rivers, the outlet will run more to generic caddis and stonefly hatches, with a few selected mayflies mixed in. The Rapid is rumored to have a fairly substantial Alder fly hatch in late June. I expect to day trip up for some of that action this summer. You didn’t say if you were interested in a guide. On the east outlet there are a couple of guide services that will run the entire river in a drift boat, something I highly recommend. I believe that the Rapid tends more to a wading experience with the exception of Pond in the River. This is not to suggest that the outlet isn’t wadable, it is, but it has a series of fairly large and deep pools that cannot be completely covered while wading. The outlet offers the opportunity to sample the extensive night life in Greenville and Rockwood (I’m a lumberjack and I’m ok, I work all night….everyone join in now:-)) and to easily visit the Roach and with a 2 hour drive and a couple of paper company gates, the West Branch. Or head north 30-40 mins and fish the Moose River where it dumps into Moosehead Lake. Lakewood will offer you a nice cabin, with lights and showers, incredible food (plan on gaining weight) and an easy walk to the fishing beginning at Middle Dam. Flyfish

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Thanks to all for your advice.  I will see you on the Rapid in late June. Brooktrout

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The outlet offers the opportunity to sample the extensive night life in Greenville and Rockwood

LOL.   You mean the ceremonial rolling up of the sidewalks?  (in the few spots they actually have sidewalks.)  :-) Joe F.

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Joe Fleischman writes: The outlet offers the opportunity to sample the extensive night life in Greenville and Rockwood LOL.   You mean the ceremonial rolling up of the sidewalks?  (in the few spots they actually have sidewalks.)  :-) Joe F.

Hey, the pizza parlor in beautiful downtown Greenvile stays open until 11 pm – Dave

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Caviasco writes: Thanks to all for your advice.  I will see you on the Rapid in late June.

I’ll be the old guy with two tall teenage boys. Dave LaCourse

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Caviasco;   Can’t go wrong with either choice. My only complaint about staying at Lakewood–which I have many times–was the meal schedule. They serve dinner from 6:30 to 8 pm in the evening–EXACTLY when I want to be on the river on a June evening.    Most of the guys staying there were in the dining area–while–as a "hard-core"–I was eating a sandwich out on the Rapid.   By staying at camps on the East Outlet I find I can arrange my meal schedule to suit  my needs–around the best fishing times. That’s the only complaint I had about Lakewood. Great camps–great people–great fishing. You’ll have a wonderful time.    Dave M

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Dave M. writes: My only complaint about staying at Lakewood–which I have many times–was the meal schedule. They serve dinner from 6:30 to 8 pm in the evening–EXACTLY when I want to be on the river on a June evening.

Psssst.   Shhhhhhhh.  (speaking softly) Don’t tell anyone, but you can have your meal served to you in your cabin *after* 8 p.m.  Extra charge of course.   Few know about it. Dave L.

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Dammit you bottom feeder, why didn’t you share that with us during the clave! Of course I could have been broke by the end of the clave… Flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave M. writes: My only complaint about staying at Lakewood–which I have many times–was the meal schedule. They serve dinner from 6:30 to 8 pm in the evening–EXACTLY when I want to be on the river on a June evening. Psssst.   Shhhhhhhh.  (speaking softly) Don’t tell anyone, but you can have your meal served to you in your cabin *after* 8 p.m.  Extra charge of course. Few know about it. Dave L.

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Psssst.   Shhhhhhhh.  (speaking softly) Don’t tell anyone, but you can have your meal served to you in your cabin *after* 8 p.m.  Extra charge of course. Few know about it.

The other thing you can do is cheat back the show-up time a bit. I spent my time at Lakewood trying to figure out what the *latest* possible time was that I could show up for meals and not lose out. I also tried to figure out how to get up and get ready in the morning without waking up Jeff Miller. An impossible task. I defy anyone to pre-rise Jeff at the Penn Clave. –Steve

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Dave B. writes: Dammit you bottom feeder, why didn’t you share that with us during the clave! Of course I could have been broke by the end of the clave…

Well, I would have, but I figured an intimate dinner by candle light  with Paul, Dave, and Dave  would have been too much for you.  <g   What Dave M. says has some merit, but if you eat at 6:30, you can be back on the river by 7.  I’ve done it myself many times.  Or, you can get your big streamers and a 6 or 7 weight and go to the dam and chuck for big brookies/salmon.  I took a 4 pound brookie on a green ghost last September at the dam after dinner. Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

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LOL.   You mean the ceremonial rolling up of the sidewalks?  (in the few spots they actually have sidewalks.)  :-)

If you fish the West Branch, there’s a girly bar in T2R9 just outside Millinockett.  Actually, there’s a girly bar there even if you don’t fish the West Branch.

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If you fish the West Branch, there’s a girly bar in T2R9 just outside Millinockett.  Actually, there’s a girly bar there even if you don’t fish the West Branch.

Ya know, now that I think of it, I lived in Millinocket for 2 years and never once went into "La Casa", starting to wonder if I was sick at the time . Of course what looks great to a lumberjack after a week in a tiny trailer somewhere out off the Golden road might not be up to my exacting standards. For the out of staters, also affectionately called flatlanders, T2R9 is township 2 range 9, otherwise known as an ‘unincorporated township’ meaning most likely no one lives there except the critters, there is no local government, no local taxes except at the county and state level. Almost heaven except for the (usually) exceptionally long drive to anywhere that has gas, food, entertainment etc. In the case of La Casa, the adult entertainment megacenter of Penobscot County, it’s wedged right between East Millinocket and Millinocket. Imagine the chagrin when the town counsel of East Millinocket discovered that La Casa was NOT located in the town thereof and was therefore not subject to their attempt to zone it out of existence (true story). Flyfish

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LOL.   You mean the ceremonial rolling up of the sidewalks?  (in the few spots they actually have sidewalks.)  :-) If you fish the West Branch, there’s a girly bar in T2R9 just outside Millinockett.  Actually, there’s a girly bar there even if you don’t fish the West Branch.

Finally!!!! a pertinent post to ROFF!!! waldo

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Zimbo writes: I also tried to figure out how to get up and get ready in the morning without waking up Jeff Miller. An impossible task. I defy anyone to pre-rise Jeff at the Penn Clave.

Can’t be done.  Will never be done.  That’s why he’s the official coffee maker whenever he’s around.  That’s all we let him do, though.  Coffee, just coffee……good too… Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

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Rory McQuillan writes: If you fish the West Branch, there’s a girly bar in T2R9 just outside Millinockett.  Actually, there’s a girly bar there even if you don’t fish the West Branch.

<g  Better explain to our non-Maine friends what a "T2R9" is, Rory.  And our southern brethren call dem places "titty bars".  <g   Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

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Rory McQuillan writes: If you fish the West Branch, there’s a girly bar in T2R9 just outside Millinockett.  Actually, there’s a girly bar there even if you don’t fish the West Branch. <g  Better explain to our non-Maine friends what a "T2R9" is, Rory.  And our southern brethren call dem places "titty bars".  <g Dave LaCourse Pirate and Bottom Dweller

Yeah, but do them girlys do back massages?  In the water? Frank (oh,the pain!) Church

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Question:

Hello! Anyone have any experience fishing in Yellowstone National Park?  Where are the good, relatively secluded spots?  What type of fly pattern would one use in the area in August?  My two sons (12 and 9) and I will be heading that way next summer, and any advice would be sincerely appreciated. -Don Sioux Falls

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I had a good trip to Yellowstone the first of  August.  You have got to try the 7 mile hole – if you don’tmine a 5.5 mile hike, one way!   Check out a diary of my trip, with pictures, at http://fishing.about.com/sports/fishhunt/fishing/mpboards.htm – look in the "vacations folder" Let me know how you do! Anyone have any experience fishing in Yellowstone National Park?  Where are the good, relatively secluded spots?  What type of fly pattern would one use in the area in August?

Ronnie http://fishing.about.com

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I only fished the Madison near the madison campground.  Caught one fish but was small.  A pointer on Yellowstone.  The only hot pools in he park open to the public are at the Madison Campground.  We motorhomed there (can not call it camping) and only found this out the last night. Bill

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello! Anyone have any experience fishing in Yellowstone National Park?  Where are the good, relatively secluded spots?  What type of fly pattern would one use in the area in August?  My two sons (12 and 9) and I will be heading that way next summer, and any advice would be sincerely appreciated. -Don Sioux Falls

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Hello! Anyone have any experience fishing in Yellowstone National Park? Where are the good, relatively secluded spots?  What type of fly pattern would one use in the area in August?  My two sons (12 and 9) and I will be heading that way next summer, and any advice would be sincerely appreciated. -Don Sioux Falls

DON, MY INFORMATION IS AT LEAST 30 YEARS OLD.  the hiway between west yellowstone and bozeman crosses a stream called Fann Creek….If you hike upstream untill there is  no sign of humans being there and were very careful about exposing yourself to the clear deep water pools,,,,,there were cutthroat? trout to be caught with out end… Id ask at a local tackle shop about Fann Creek,,,it could be better now,  could be worse…   after all these years i still remember KW Before you buy.

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Being a new guy here, I don’t know shit…(get out the keyboard soap) but evidently Mikey must live in a coutry where they charge by the minute for phones and access….without experimenting until my brain slips a cog (happens often-sorry) wouldn’t it be possible to download this newsgroup on a regular basis, zip the files and e-mail them to him?? wouldn’t that save him a few bucks  (400 is much more than a few)….?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Left for the following reasons (in order): 1. Spam 2. Indian Rights 3. USA vs. Brits 4. Nasty emails vis-a-vis #2 & 3 5. #1-3 cost him over $400 last month. Says he doubts that he will return. — Ken Fortenberry I started the USA vs Brits thread as an attempt to lighten the mood of the posts that were being made at that particular time.

Actually, a Brit named Tony Deacon started the whole thing (not that particular thread) with a totally gratuitous insult of American culture. When someone insults a country on Usenet you can expect angry replies, and rightly so. The "Indian Rights" thing started when someone posted a claim that commercial fishing, not the Lower Snake dams, was responsible for the decline of the Snake River salmon, and that morphed into Indian Rights. A thread that to one person is nothing but off-topic rants might be very interesting to someone else. I found the Indian Rights thread to have value, once you got past the race baiting, but I can see why a European might get bored by it. Some Europeans seem miffed that Usenet is dominated by Yanks. Too bad. Let them post some European-specific stuff. I won’t mind at all. I thought Mike Connor changed his telephone to a flat-rate service. Why the $400? It’s really no one’s responsibility in ROFF to keep Mike’s or anyone else’s Usenet-related bills down. Hell, we can reduce them to nearly zero by just shutting down the whole thing. I hope MC returns. I liked some of his doggerel verse and his prose fiction, he obviously knows a lot about many kinds of fishing, he added a welcome and needed European perspective to ROFF, and he’s generally a very smart and creative person. But I’m not going to lose any sleep over it. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Actually, a Brit named Tony Deacon started the whole thing (not that particular thread) with a totally gratuitous insult of American culture.

The fact of the matter is it started off as a joke.  Tony and I were joking around,at least that was the impression that I got.  Some people took this a little too serious and then the thread ended up with threats.  I think that is what really pissed Mike off. Believe me RW, I am not losing any sleep over this either.  It does bother me because Mike was a valuable source of knowledge.  I was constantly amazed at the amount of info that man had locked in his brain housing group.  The part that I liked most was that he didn’t try and make you feel stupid about it either. I sent Mike an email once expressing my appreciation for his help on several things I had questions with.  Mike would typically point me in the direction so that I could research the topic on my own and give me a few pointers of his own.  It was always short, helpful and contributed greatly to my own knowledge base. I am not saying that Mike C was the only person with lots of knowledge on a broad variety of topics, but he was a class act that is going to be missed by those who ask lots of questions around here.  Not to mention his writings….. Warren

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It won’t be the same as having him on ROFF, but he does write a column and have a chat  group on "Fly Anglers on Line" http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ Ernie Harrison See Ernie’s Fly-Fishing Stuff:   http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, a Brit named Tony Deacon started the whole thing (not that particular thread) with a totally gratuitous insult of American culture. The fact of the matter is it started off as a joke.  Tony and I were joking around,at least that was the impression that I got.  Some people took this a little too serious and then the thread ended up with threats.  I think that is what really pissed Mike off. Believe me RW, I am not losing any sleep over this either.  It does bother me because Mike was a valuable source of knowledge.  I was constantly amazed at the amount of info that man had locked in his brain housing group.  The part that I liked most was that he didn’t try and make you feel stupid about it either. I sent Mike an email once expressing my appreciation for his help on several things I had questions with.  Mike would typically point me in the direction so that I could research the topic on my own and give me a few pointers of his own.  It was always short, helpful and contributed greatly to my own knowledge base. I am not saying that Mike C was the only person with lots of knowledge on a broad variety of topics, but he was a class act that is going to be missed by those who ask lots of questions around here.  Not to mention his writings….. Warren

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        have i missed something here?  where the hell has connor gone? vacation?  work?  pissed?  under arrest? wayno

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        have i missed something here?  where the hell has connor gone? vacation?  work?  pissed?  under arrest?

Left for the following reasons (in order): 1. Spam 2. Indian Rights 3. USA vs. Brits 4. Nasty emails vis-a-vis #2 & 3 5. #1-3 cost him over $400 last month. Says he doubts that he will return. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 3 – Tar Heels 1

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Says he doubts that he will return. — Ken Fortenberry

What a shame.  One of the more enjoyable personalities on ROFF, IMO.  Always enjoyed his stories. Keith Brewster

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Left for the following reasons (in order): 1. Spam 2. Indian Rights 3. USA vs. Brits 4. Nasty emails vis-a-vis #2 & 3 5. #1-3 cost him over $400 last month. Says he doubts that he will return. — Ken Fortenberry

I started the USA vs Brits thread as an attempt to lighten the mood of the posts that were being made at that particular time. I in no way meant to hurt anybody’s feelings and if you look at the original post I think that is evident.  Mike was usually the first one  that responded to me when I would post a question and I will surely miss him if he is truly gone. Mike, if you were offended in any way by my USA vs Brit post, I apologize. Tim

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Could it possibly be that he is busy with personal things? He’ll be back.  He’s just busy.  Mike is not the type of man that would go away in a snit without saying good-bye. I miss him but will not help to clutter up his mail box by e-mailing him.  Just give him a little room, folks.   Dave LaCourse

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He told me the same in an email over the weekend.  I surmised that he is very busy as well, but the tone of his message didn’t leave me with the impression that he was interested in returning to this happy band. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting the ultimate practitioner.                                                 Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Left for the following reasons (in order): 1. Spam 2. Indian Rights 3. USA vs. Brits 4. Nasty emails vis-a-vis #2 & 3 5. #1-3 cost him over $400 last month. Says he doubts that he will return. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 3 – Tar Heels 1

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He told me the same in an email over the weekend.  I surmised that he is very busy as well, but the tone of his message didn’t leave me with the impression that he was interested in returning to this happy band.

What a whimp. He leaves, we grieves, and goze limp. He didn’t say bye… I wonder why… Not gonna cry… just wonder why. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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… He didn’t say bye… I wonder why…

He’s a class act, that’s why. If one decides to filter another poster or unsubscribe from a newsgroup one simply does so. No whiny recriminations, wounded, emotional farewells or parting shots necessary or appropriate. Mike’s last post was titled "Guilty". It was eloquent, and as appropriate a farewell as I’ve seen. — Ken Fortenberry

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What a whimp. He leaves, we grieves, and goze limp. He didn’t say bye… I wonder why… Not gonna cry… just wonder why. Your pal, "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Mike evidently never considered it necessary to remind anyone on this group that he was "Your pal," and he was right.  Your constant reminder notwithstanding I suspect few will miss you as much as we will Mike. "Guilt debased the meal…"

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What a whimp. He leaves, we grieves, and goze limp. He didn’t say bye… I wonder why… Not gonna cry… just wonder why. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

He did say bye, He did say why, He just didn’t serve it up Like yesterday’s pie. Peter

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He didn’t say bye…

I think it was when you were off sulking the latest time. — Charlie…

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Good one Charlie Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He didn’t say bye… I think it was when you were off sulking the latest time. — Charlie…

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EEEHH   GADS! Come back Mikey – all other verse is worthless without ye! RalphH

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What a whimp. He leaves, we grieves, and goze limp. He didn’t say bye… I wonder why… Not gonna cry… just wonder why. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" He did say bye, He did say why, He just didn’t serve it up Like yesterday’s pie. Peter

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If it is indeed true that Mike has left for the reasons listed below, then I’m inclined to think that the whole "ROFF is Darwinian" concept isn’t as great as some have made it out to be. I for one thought Mike’s posts were a rare species worth protecting from extinction. Steve Zimmerman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Left for the following reasons (in order): 1. Spam 2. Indian Rights 3. USA vs. Brits 4. Nasty emails vis-a-vis #2 & 3 5. #1-3 cost him over $400 last month. Says he doubts that he will return.

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Bullseye! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What a whimp. He leaves, we grieves, and goze limp. He didn’t say bye… I wonder why… Not gonna cry… just wonder why. Your pal, "Guilt replaced the creel…" Mike evidently never considered it necessary to remind anyone on this group that he was "Your pal," and he was right.  Your constant reminder notwithstanding I suspect few will miss you as much as we will Mike. "Guilt debased the meal…"

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Thought you all might be interested in a new Fly Fishing Loop of websites. The loop is just getting started, but already has been well received. It’s called the: Fly Fishing Loop Located at: http://homepage.interaccess.com/~tsteele/FlyFishingLoop/ Any fly fishing related website can be in the Loop. This can include, personal home pages, commercial websites (such as a manufacturers with products or services that are fly fishing related), fly tying sites, fly fishing clubs, organizations, links pages, fly fishing publications or periodicals, fly fishing guides, fly fishing shops etc. If it is fly fishing related and has a website, it can be in the Loop. You can get more information, and sign-up online. It takes about 2 mins. Everything you need to be in the Loop will be emailed to you automatically, after you sign-up. I hope that will take a moment to visit the Loop’s home page. The loop is devoted to fly fishing and all things related to the pursuit of fish on a fly. It needs your support. Website that are in the Loop will get increased traffic from the Loop. Visitors to the Loop will be interested in one thing…Fly Fishing. For commercial sites and those in the trade, the benfits are obvious, you get exposure to a specific audience of FF visitors to the Loop. Personal sites, organizations and clubs will get increased website exposure in the Loop, and can use the loop to get their word out, to the right audience as well! The Loop also benfits from the diversity and range of content that the various members have on their sites. Throught the Loop you can navigate all member sites, easily. I hope you will consider joining the loop. Tight lines and light leaders, Thomas Steele The Steelhead Site http://steelheadsite.com

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Thought you all might be interested in a new Fly Fishing Loop of websites. The loop is just getting started, but already has been well received. It’s called the: Fly Fishing Loop Located at: http://homepage.interaccess.com/~tsteele/FlyFishingLoop/

Hi, Just tried and got no connection. Could you verify that the above is correct. Thanks. Michael — Mit der Dummheit kampfen Gotter selbst vergebens -Schiller-

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Just tried and got no connection. Could you verify that the above is correct.

Works for me … must have been server trouble. Looks very cool and is a neat concept. Thomas Steele The Steelhead Site

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   Can anyone reccommend where to go in Rockland COunty NY?  I recently went up to Roscoe for the Memorial Day weekend and would like to not go so far from home (2-2.5 hrs).  I live in northern NJ, but do not have a license here, only NY– resulting from my first trip this year. Thanks for any advise. Brian Charles — Brian Charles

You didn’t mention a preference of venue or species to target, but have you tried Rockland Lake? It has a variety of species to target including Largemouth and Smallmouth bass, crappie, perch and an overabundance of bluegill. There may even be a pickerel or two around. If you wade, be very careful. I got stuck in mud up to my chest obver there near some lilly pads. Fortunately, another angler was able to pull me out. As for rivers/streams, you might try the Hudson for stripers and bluefish. You’ll need saltwater flyfishing gear for this venture though. I hear the Ramapo is making a comeback if trout are your target, but I don’t have any personal esperience there. You may want to call some local flyshops and get their opinion. One to try is the Matterhorn Country Sport Shop in Spring Valley, NY. Their phone number is 914.354.5986. Good Luck,     Jose

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   Can anyone reccommend where to go in Rockland COunty NY?  I recently went up to Roscoe for the Memorial Day weekend and would like to not go so far from home (2-2.5 hrs).  I live in northern NJ, but do not have a license here, only NY– resulting from my first trip this year. Thanks for any advise. Brian Charles — Brian Charles

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Hi, I went to the fly fishing course my instructor has taught me to keep the rod straight against my wrist during the entire motion.  He said to prevent RSI and have a smooth motion that won’t tire me out. I watched a video last night from Bass Pro Shops that said I should use my wrist to power the rod. My instructor was German, Who is it really done? Thanks John

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Hi, I went to the fly fishing course my instructor has taught me to keep the rod straight against my wrist during the entire motion.  He said to prevent RSI and have a smooth motion that won’t tire me out. I watched a video last night from Bass Pro Shops that said I should use my wrist to power the rod. My instructor was German, Who is it really done?

Hi John, Without getting into a lengthy discussion here, I might suggest that your casting instructor is correct. I would highly recommend Mel Krieger’s excellent video entitled "The Essence of Fly Casting" . In it, he explains the mechanics of fly casting in an easy to understand manner. I hope this helps,   Alan.   Alan Barnard   Kiene’s Fly Shop   Sacramento, California   WWW Fly Tyer   http://www.ns.net/~barnard

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Hi, I went to the fly fishing course my instructor has taught me to keep the rod straight against my wrist during the entire motion.  He said to prevent RSI and have a smooth motion that won’t tire me out. I watched a video last night from Bass Pro Shops that said I should use my wrist to power the rod. My instructor was German, Who is it really done? Thanks John

Hi Jon-    I would hope both your sources are correct. NO you should not lock the rod against the wrist during the entire casting motion.    I’m guessing he overemphasized the stiff wrist thing because he noted a tendency for you to use your wrist excessively. A lot of beginners use their wrist exclusively and others develop a real floppy wrist motion that blows any chance for a tight loop.    I have some friends from San Francisco with very limp wrists but they’re still excellent casters.    But then again, I’m Scotch.    -Ralph —

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: Hi, : I went to the fly fishing course my instructor has taught me to keep the : rod straight against my wrist during the entire motion.  He said to : prevent RSI and have a smooth motion that won’t tire me out. : I watched a video last night from Bass Pro Shops that said I should use : my wrist to power the rod. : My instructor was German, Who is it really done? There are many ways. I’ve seen a *lot* of different styles, but the best caster I know uses mainly forearm motion and a bit of wrist. What’s more important is adapting your casting motion to the weight of the rod and line. What *is* important is to avoid letting the wrist flex as you begin the forward stroke; keep it rigid at this point. Some novies tend to allow the wrist to flex, so while the arm starts moving, the tip of the rod remains motionless, and the line drops. Focus on the tip; concentrate on how the tip is moving through the air, not the butt where you’re holding the rod. Economy of motion and getting a feel for the rhythm of the rod and line are the keys to an efficent casting style. –mike

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I went to the fly fishing course my instructor has taught me to keep the rod straight against my wrist during the entire motion.  He said to prevent RSI and have a smooth motion that won’t tire me out. I watched a video last night from Bass Pro Shops that said I should use my wrist to power the rod. My instructor was German, Who is it really done? Thanks John   I have some friends from San Francisco with very limp wrists but they’re still excellent casters.

I *bet* you do, sailor. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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I’m sure Jason will remember you and that fish for the rest of his life. After all the "political" discussions on this group, your post came through loud and clear. Thanks for sharing it with us. Bob

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John, Thanks for the story.  We can all take lessons from it.

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It was damned quiet off Kennebunkport yesterday morning. Rain fell steadily and large banks of fog rolled off Mount Agamenticus to the SW, as well as off Cape Porpoise to the North. The VHF was silent. No boats in sight anywhere. 2 miles out my 17′ Invader drifted slowly as I sent cast after cast out in search of the blues. They weren’t there either. I motored in towards Walker’s Point, casting towards the rocks, hoping for that big migratating cow striper. She wasn’t there either. Mid morning the sun broke through, the boats came out and I knew it was time to leave. I can never stop fishing, so after docking I started making roll casts off the swim platform. On the first of these I saw a striper come out from under the dock opposite me and take the small deceiver. It was a small one, but fun for sure. I caught a motion from the corner of my eye and turned to see Jason, the 8 year old from the slip next door. Jason, like me, is possessed by fish. Every time I go to the marina he’s there, looking into the depths for a glimpse of a striper or catching sand eels or crabs. The kid loves fish. One arm was in a cast, one of those accidents we all have. The other held a sandwich. Another roll casts produced another fish, this one felt considerably larger, and I passed the rod to Jason. He fought the fish well for a kid with a cast and a sandwich, but a last minute head shake gave the first round to the stripers. It was enough,though, to make him an instant addict. "Finish your sandwich, then pick out the fly that will get your first striper" I told him. He picked a 2/0 white and blue deceiver and held it out to me confidently. It didn’t take many casts before his fly hooked into a good schoolie. I reeled quickly to get the fish on the reel, then jammed the fighting butt between the buckles on his life vets, propped his encasted hand on the rod blank and put his good hand on the reel. A small crowd formed to cheer him on as the schoolie darted and dove. Finally we saw leader, and I grabbed it and pulled his prize out. He held it briefly, then we released it and it swam back under the dock as the crowd cheered. We didn’t catch any more fish, as the water dropped below 2′, but the kid was airborne all day. He sorted my flies into two piles, good ones and bad ones. An instant fly connoisseur, he placed most of my creations in the bad pile :- "I bet this one would work on mackeral" he said, picking out a tiny #4 blonde type pattern. We spent the afternoon talking of fish and fishing, and after washing the boat down and heading for my truck I realized that I’d finally found something more fun that fishing. As I headed toward the driveway Dan, the dockmaster, called out to me. He too is a fly fisherman, and watched the day’s events. "That was fun wasn’t it ?" he asked, and I told him yeah it was great. "Could it be that he reminds you of someone you know ?" he winked. I went home and dug up my lighter 8 weight, looking forward to the casting lessons soon to come.                                                 jc

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