Question:

I intend to spend three weeks in and near the Kamloops, B.C. area in the spring or early summer, 2002 and would appreciate any information that may maximize my fishing success and pleasure. I will probably spend most my time on the lakes, but will want to hit a few of the smaller rivers and streams as well. I plan to take both a pontoon boat and a back-packable float tube. And, I have a sturdy 4 wheel vehicle. I will be living in my travel trailer, which I will probably park in an RV park some of the time, but can live in it in a wilderness environment for up to ten days. Any suggestions as to where to go would be appreciated. Ron Matson

Response:

I intend to spend three weeks in and near the Kamloops, B.C. area in the spring or early summer, 2002 and would appreciate any information that may maximize my fishing success and pleasure. I will probably spend most my time on the lakes, but will want to hit a few of the smaller rivers and streams as well. I plan to take both a pontoon boat and a back-packable float tube. And, I have a sturdy 4 wheel vehicle. I will be living in my travel trailer, which I will probably park in an RV park some of the time, but can live in it in a wilderness environment for up to ten days. Any suggestions as to where to go would be appreciated. Ron Matson

Somebody help me out here, Chan has an excellent book on lake fishing BC.   (CRAFT has struck – can’t remember the book title or his first name.) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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  Somebody help me out here, Chan has an excellent book on lake fishing BC.   (CRAFT has struck – can’t remember the book title or his first name.)

Isn’t his name Brian Chan?  I don’t recall the book title. — Warren Findley Remove (nospamZZ) to respond via email http://www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt/

Response:

The regulations for BC freshwater fishing are at http://www.monday.com/fishing/. Go to region 3, Thmpson-Nicola. General regulations state there is no fishing in any stream from jan 01 to June 30. Exceptions are listed in the regulaiton booklet. With the iming of your trip, I suspect that stream fishing may be limited I wouldn’t worry about that as th lake fishing is quite excellent, challenging, and rewarding. A pontoon boat will be perfect, but I suggest you get an anchor for staying still while working weedy areas. Float tubes are good for smaller lakes, but nothing beats a pontoon boat. I suggest looking at three books. "Kamloops: An angler’s study of the Kamloops Trout" by Steve Raymond. ISBN 1-878175-734. "Morris and Chan an Fly Fishing Trout Lakes" by Skip Morris and Brian Chan. ISBN 1-57188-181-6 "Fly Patterns for Stillwaters" by Phil Rowley ISBN 1-57188-195-6 The above books all were written by authors with intimate knowledge of fishing in the Kamloops area. Get these three books,a nd you will have all the informtion you need about where to start fishing, techniques, and fly patterns. When you get there, local fly shops will be more tham willing to let you know which lakes are on or not. Also, try the Sportfishng on the Fly Forum area at http://www.sfotf.com/forum/ and go to the flyfishing forum. My experience with this board is that is very helpful and used bymany peopl who fish the Kamloops area. I love fishing that area, and get out there once or twice a year. I am hoping to spend a week in May in the area as well. Tim Lysyk

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I intend to spend three weeks in and near the Kamloops, B.C. area in the spring or early summer, 2002 and would appreciate any information that may maximize my fishing success and pleasure. I will probably spend most my time on the lakes, but will want to hit a few of the smaller rivers and streams as well. I plan to take both a pontoon boat and a back-packable float tube. And, I have a sturdy 4 wheel vehicle. I will be living in my travel trailer, which I will probably park in an RV park some of the time, but can live in it in a wilderness environment for up to ten days. Any suggestions as to where to go would be appreciated. Ron Matson

Response:

I intend to spend three weeks in and near the Kamloops, B.C. area in the

<SNIP You might look here; http://www.sportfishingbc.com/index.htm and here; http://www.fishbc.com/adventure/angling/index.html TL MC

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I intend to spend three weeks in and near the Kamloops, B.C. area in the spring or early summer, 2002 and would appreciate any information that may maximize my fishing success and pleasure. I will probably spend most my time on the lakes, but will want to hit a few of the smaller rivers and streams as well. I plan to take both a pontoon boat and a back-packable float tube. And, I have a sturdy 4 wheel vehicle. I will be living in my travel trailer, which I will probably park in an RV park some of the time, but can live in it in a wilderness environment for up to ten days. Any suggestions as to where to go would be appreciated. Ron Matson Somebody help me out here, Chan has an excellent book on lake fishing BC.   (CRAFT has struck – can’t remember the book title or his first name.) Peter

Morris and Chan On fly fishing trout lakes. Frank Amato Publications inc. ISBN 1-57188 181-6 Try www.anglingbc.com www.kamfly.com www.discoverbc.com www.fishbc.com www.flyshop.com www.ariverneversleeps.com As a good friend of mine in Kamloops says, ‘There are over a thousand lakes within a couple of hours drive from town. It would take more than one lifetime to fish them all.’ Now there’s a challenge! HTH Chris ( In UK)

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More info, just checked my bookshelf : Softback ‘BCFishing’. 56 maps, 5000 waters described (briefly). Seems a very useful resource to me. Published by BC Outdoors (annually, updated) $12.95 Can. ISBN (1999 / 2000 edition) 9 781896 373249 Also try www.anglersatlas.com for maps. Chris ( still in the UK, wanna be in BC)

Response:

this websitewill be helpfull http://www.bcadventure.com/adventure/angling/stillwater/index.phtml

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I intend to spend three weeks in and near the Kamloops, B.C. area in the spring or early summer, 2002 and would appreciate any information that may maximize my fishing success and pleasure. I will probably spend most my time on the lakes, but will want to hit a few of the smaller rivers and streams as well. I plan to take both a pontoon boat and a back-packable float tube. And, I have a sturdy 4 wheel vehicle. I will be living in my travel trailer, which I will probably park in an RV park some of the time, but can live in it in a wilderness environment for up to ten days. Any suggestions as to where to go would be appreciated. Ron Matson

Response:

Question:

All who contribute to ROFF are equally important, as ROFF is a team effort, and as such far greater than any individual, or even the sum of the individuals involved. Most of us are here to enjoy ourselves in the discussion of a common interest and its periphery, often including wild  tangents,or indeed completely unrelated subject matter. Nobody has more rights than anybody else, and everybody is free to voice their opinions as they see fit.

Sounds like a great intro paragraph for any newbies stumbling in here and wondering what the hell we’re about.    Thanks for leading the way Mike. <bg Joe F.

Response:

I was serious once in 1968.  Never again though.  I am not related to our fearless leader (or our defacto roff leader. wordsmith Mike Conner)   For people who like to stir up shit and get people worked up ( mostly over nothing ) roff is a "target rich" enviroment.  Many pots of stercium and me with a stick, how can one resist to stir it up once in a while. I do fly fish and do pick up many pearls of information ( for which I am grateful ) from roff participants.   I also try to contribute ( meaningful fly fishing information) when I am able. I consider any string "off topic" as open for any comments. I don’t like being corrected by Ditto headed republicans,  If you have the mental capacity of a 3 year old crowbar  what can you  teach?

OK, so Latin, grammar, and punctuation are out…from your other response, trolling is out.  I stick by my original suggestion…

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I do not lead anything or anybody at all, and I have no desire so to do. This being the case, I would prefer not to be so titulated. My opinions are worth no more than any other opinions which might be published by various people on here, except in the sense that some of my experience or knowledge of the subject  might tend to give them more weight.  I often discuss relatively simple facts, and there is little chance of much going wrong if one sticks to these. This applies only to subjects of which I have direct knowledge and experience, that is, mainly fishing related, and does not qualify me in any way to hold forth on any other subject. It is not my intention to influence people to any great degree, and I usually only answer specific questions or enter discussions on specific subjects about which I know something, apart from when I engage in writing usually more or less nonsensical doggerel, attempting mostly humorous comebacks, or the occasional story, which to date,  have all been factual, and related to direct experience. Most unfortunate that some people appear to have gotten the idea that I might lead anything.  All who contribute to ROFF are equally important, as ROFF is a team effort, and as such far greater than any individual, or even the sum of the individuals involved. Most of us are here to enjoy ourselves in the discussion of a common interest and its periphery, often including wild  tangents,or indeed completely unrelated subject matter. Nobody has more rights than anybody else, and everybody is free to voice their opinions as they see fit. While I am aware that many people respect my opinions, and  I find this gratifying of course, I would be most disappointed to be considered as some sort of guru, most especially one responsible for the general tone. This is most certainly not the case, and would also be insulting to many others, were it indeed so. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

You don’t need much heat at all on the finished blank, so a hair dryer just might do it. An alcohol lamp might introduce burn marks. Steam from a kettle works but takes a long, long time.

Would a miniature version of wood benders’ steam tunnel, say made of a stick of PVC, work?  It seems it could be built from stuff at Home Depot/Lowe’s and Dollar General/Walmart for 10-15.00. HTH? R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —Steve Before heat guns didn’t they use alcohol lamps?…… blow dryer’d probly take pretty long…..john ….(3) use a heat gun to retemper and straighten each section,… Just curious Steve, how much heat do you need for this step?. Would a blow dryer be sufficient?

Response:

PVC is a thermoplastic. If you heat it up it will deform. If you want to do something like this use steel or copper pipe. Although not all that much heat is required for straightening bamboo, a hair dryer is not usually powerful enough.  The heat guns originally mentioned are best for this purpose. They are available cheaply at DIY markets etc.  They are commonly used for stripping paint, welding plastics etc.    Try the gun on its lowest heat setting on some scrap bamboo before attempting to straighten any rods with it.  The guns produce more than sufficient heat to scorch the bamboo. The guns are also advantageous, as you can straighten a fairly small section relatively easily, and the heat is only applied to this section.  A pipe oven will of course apply heat to everything in it. TL MC — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

Response:

Would a miniature version of wood benders’ steam tunnel, say made of a stick of PVC, work?  It seems it could be built from stuff at Home Depot/Lowe’s and Dollar General/Walmart for 10-15.00.

Yeah, but then a heat gun is only $25.00 and has a host of other uses. –Steve

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….(3) use a heat gun to retemper and straighten each section,…

Just curious Steve, how much heat do you need for this step?.  Would a blow dryer be sufficient?

Response:

Not certain what other info I can give, however; the guides on both tips are snake eyes and not rings. The thread wrappings are tan center with a small strip of black on either end. The hook keeper is on of those loose rings, kind of like a mini-keychain ring the tip on the longest is a simple, but common, tip, much like the tips on some production rods.  the tip on the shortest is larger, and has a reddish ring insert (plastic?), it certainly looks like something that would have gone on a spinning rod but there are snake eyes on the same tip.

This doesn’t sound like a combo to me, and it sounds "un-Japanese" for some reason…maybe the color combo? All of the snake eyes that survived are black with age and neglect.

What color are the ferrules?  Are you sure the aren’t meant to be black, i.e., are the "black" but smooth, or are they obviously "black with age"? All of the ferrules have remmenents of what appears to be a age yellowed lacquer there is a metal winding check at the top of the handle that matches smoothly into the taper of the handle that is yellowed with lacquer as well, it almost looks gold.

Again, it just sounds "un-Japanese"…. There is no writing anywhere and nothing that looks like it ever might have been the location of a decal or such.

I have some well-known maker rods (early) with no markings except for reel hardware and "turnings" on metal parts, if that helps… I didn’t expect to find the missing Sages or an abandoned Orvis etc. The value, while nice to know, isn’t going to change my intention, I’ll still throw some new snake eyes on it, spruce it up a bit and try it out. My interest in getting an old bamboo was just to have something to fool around with since I didn’t buy a blank from he who I probably shouldn’t mention or anyone else in the bamboo business (it’s way too pricey for this thrifty Main-ah)

There are no missing Sage bamboos (that was a joke), but there are rods, completed and incomplete/uncompleted, by many fine makers out there undiscovered, and I’d not tamper with it until you have a better idea of what you have. thanks for the info, if I can get my hands on a digital camera I’ll see if I can get some pics to post somplace for a fuller appraisal. Flyfish

HTH? R

Response:

Before heat guns didn’t they use alcohol lamps?…… blow dryer’d probly take pretty long…..john – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ….(3) use a heat gun to retemper and straighten each section,… Just curious Steve, how much heat do you need for this step?.  Would a blow dryer be sufficient?

Response:

I thought the alcohol lamps were for putting the tip on and getting rid of any fluff or loose ends on the wraps. Flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before heat guns didn’t they use alcohol lamps?…… blow dryer’d probly take pretty long…..john ….(3) use a heat gun to retemper and straighten each section,… Just curious Steve, how much heat do you need for this step?.  Would a blow dryer be sufficient?

Response:

You don’t need much heat at all on the finished blank, so a hair dryer just might do it. An alcohol lamp might introduce burn marks. Steam from a kettle works but takes a long, long time. –Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Before heat guns didn’t they use alcohol lamps?…… blow dryer’d probly take pretty long…..john ….(3) use a heat gun to retemper and straighten each section,… Just curious Steve, how much heat do you need for this step?. Would a blow dryer be sufficient?

Response:

I went out to ebay, at the suggestion of someone else, and found some similar rods, but then I found a photo of a Horrocks-Ibbotson that was a dead ringer for the reel seat and handle up through the winding check. I’m assuming that I’ve identified the rod make and will proceed with my intentions to restore it. I took a copy of the photo and have posted it here http://www.ctel.net/~brooktrout/0413rod2.gif it’s a pretty small picture but it worked. my handle isn’t anywhere near as clean but this is the same thing as mine Flyfish

Response:

The grampus rod that I had no box, just a cloth bag. It had the metal cap. The Grampus logo was a decal.

Response:

Didn’t get a box, I did get a very worn rod bag with a hole in it. The reel seat sounds the same. Will have to check out the book. Flyfish

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Grampus rods almost always come with a flat holding box.Noone ever throws the box away because the box is the best part of the outfit.Check out Keanes book for a possible identification.Early Granger rods had sliding metal band reel seats.The bottom of the reel held in a fixed cap on the butt of the rod.Have fun with your project rod.For what you paid for it you can’t lose. Regards,Shawn

Response:

<Description snipped This doesn’t sound like a cheapo Japanese combo rod to me, from the colors (the ones I’ve seen are red, green, etc. "bright"), to the described workmanship, to reel seat and metal parts description and the tips.  I claim no expertise, but simply based on the desciption, I’d bet you have something on which you need to get an "eyeball" assessment.  It sounds like you may not have the Holy Grail, but you don’t have an old Dixie cup either… HTH? R

Response:

Grampus rods almost always come with a flat holding box.Noone ever throws the box away because the box is the best part of the outfit.Check out Keanes book for a possible identification.Early Granger rods had sliding metal band reel seats.The bottom of the reel held in a fixed cap on the butt of the rod.Have fun with your project rod.For what you paid for it you can’t lose. Regards,Shawn

Response:

Pick up the book Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook by Michael Sinclair, it will help you with restoration and identifying the rod. krombear how come it does’nt take fish twelve years to get an education

Response:

What color are the ferrules?  Are you sure the aren’t meant to be black, i.e., are the "black" but smooth, or are they obviously "black with age"?

the ferrules are a silvery metal color, tarnished here and there but very functional. where they join the blank they are fluted and have two grooves just above the fluting as a sort of decoration. they were at one time varnished/lacquered over and have some left on, quite yellowed with age, on the part closest to the blank. there is a small dot above the grooves, away from the blank, that looks like a hole had been drilled into the ferrule and filled with solder or a small nail etc. had been driven in and then cut flush. The snake eyes are black, I assumed they had aged to that color I can also see some rust on them. the butt section has one snake eye, and appears to be missing the stripping guide, if it ever had one, I’m not certain there every was one. Where I would expect to find it, I see what may have been a decorative wrap instead, with two tans 1/4" or so from  a larger black wrap in the center. Above the hook keeper is another set of decorative wraps a small tan, 1/4" of blank, then small black, anout 1/2" of tan, with small black and finally 1/4′ of blank to another small tan wrap. The middle section has no eyes left at all, but I can see where they were. The both tips appear to be intact and each has two snake eyes  on it. On all sections halfway between each guide is a small section of tan wraps, about 4-6 turns, basically splitting the distance as the rod tapers to the tip sections. The two tip sections appear to have the same taper and the wrap mentioned above is in the same place on each, although on the shorter one it’s no longer centered, it’s just below the tip section. This lends me to believe that it in fact was broken off at some point and this larger, cruder tip is a repair. This tip in fact looks to be slightly too large for the blank at that point and there is some discoloration on the blank at the bottom of it that looks like some slight overheating when the ferrule cement was applied. While the varinish on the wraps is all shot, and the wraps are loose and rotting, the finish of the rod is still very nice. it’s not peeling or flaking away anywhere and is intact along the entire length of the blank. It also looks like some base coloration was applied along with the finish, I can see what appear to be brush marks in the color on the blank. there are some dust motes in the finish and a few small chips but overall it looks as good, if not better than my regular working 5wt graphite. Looking again at the metal winding check at the top of the handle, it’s tapered from the handle down to the blank and it has two pairs of grooves turned into it, similar to those in the ferrules. It’s finished in a varnish or lacquer that has either yellowed with age or was colored to make this piece look gold. The actual reel seat is a friction type, not threaded, and appears to be aluminum but could be something else I suppose, the butt cap actually reminds me of my strubel nickel silver. Down where the wear on the reel seat isn’t so pronounced the tarnish is reminiscent of my old hand me down silver tea set, it has that dark tarnish look to it, but if it was a silvered reel seat most of it has worn off. There are a couple of small cracks in it, one where the reel seats into the buttcap and the other on the main metal part. The friction ring might not be aluminum as I tend to doubt it would have survived given some of the other wear I see on the rod. Aluminum would tend to be fairly soft would it not? The cork is moderately pourus but was shaped with care and it very regular in shape and sizing. It’s a basic cigar shaped handle. The blank itself is almost perfectly straight, each of the tip sections have very minor ‘bends’ but I’ve seen (lately as a matter of fact) Orvis graphites that were far worse. I doubt that I’ll bother trying to straighten these out. I have some well-known maker rods (early) with no markings except for reel hardware and "turnings" on metal parts, if that helps…

Well I’ve gotta say that this rod has been more interesting to me in the day I’ve had it, than most of what  I’ve been doing lately. Thanks for all the pointers for parts etc. and I’m off to look at what rec and snakeeye have to offer. Flyfish

Response:

Not certain what other info I can give, however; the guides on both tips are snake eyes and not rings. The thread wrappings are tan center with a small strip of black on either end. The hook keeper is on of those loose rings, kind of like a mini-keychain ring the tip on the longest is a simple, but common, tip, much like the tips on some production rods. the tip on the shortest is larger, and has a reddish ring insert (plastic?), it certainly looks like something that would have gone on a spinning rod but there are snake eyes on the same tip. All of the snake eyes that survived are black with age and neglect. All of the ferrules have remmenents of what appears to be a age yellowed lacquer there is a metal winding check at the top of the handle that matches smoothly into the taper of the handle that is yellowed with lacquer as well, it almost looks gold. There is no writing anywhere and nothing that looks like it ever might have been the location of a decal or such. I didn’t expect to find the missing Sages or an abandoned Orvis etc. The value, while nice to know, isn’t going to change my intention, I’ll still throw some new snake eyes on it, spruce it up a bit and try it out. My interest in getting an old bamboo was just to have something to fool around with since I didn’t buy a blank from he who I probably shouldn’t mention or anyone else in the bamboo business (it’s way too pricey for this thrifty Main-ah) thanks for the info, if I can get my hands on a digital camera I’ll see if I can get some pics to post somplace for a fuller appraisal. Flyfish

Response:

My vote is go for it. Who cares about the manufacturer info if this is the first rod you’ve ever restored? For best results you’ll want to (1) remove all of the guides, (2) sand the varnish from the blank, (3) use a heat gun to retemper and straighten each section, (4) revarnish the blank and then (5) re-wrap and varnish the guides (some people do those last two steps in opposite order–either way works fine). I recommend replacing all of the guides and tiptops with black nickel Snake Brand guides–check out http://www.snakeguides.com. You’ll want to use size 00 or smaller silk thread for the wraps. Email me if you need help trying to find matching thread–otherwise any color would do–I’ll even let you borrow a spool if you’re not picky. If you want to replace the reel seat and cork, that’s a bit more difficult but can certainly be done by carefully cutting away the existing grip and using heat to break down the glue that holds the reel seat on. REC components (www.reccomponents.com) has those items at a decent price. You didn’t say how long the rod is, but I’m guessing it’s a 9-foot 7- or 8-weight rod. Probably quite heavy. Yet another option is to convert the 3-piece into a two-piece midge rod by attaching a new reel seat and small grip to the butt of the middle piece. Whether or not that configuration would cast well depends on the taper of the rod. –Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I didn’t expect to find the missing Sages or an abandoned Orvis etc. The value, while nice to know, isn’t going to change my intention, I’ll still throw some new snake eyes on it, spruce it up a bit and try it out. My interest in getting an old bamboo was just to have something to fool around with since I didn’t buy a blank from he who I probably shouldn’t mention or anyone else in the bamboo business (it’s way too pricey for this thrifty Main-ah)

Response:

I stumbled on it in a flea market. Intesting piece. 3 piece rod, with two tips (4 pieces in all). The threads are all rotten and most of the guides are missing but all the ferrules are in perfect working order. one of the tips is 3" shorter than the other, and has a fairly crude tip making me believe it was broken once. The reel seat is aluminum, and isn’t threaded but just slides down to hold the reel in place. All of the sections are pretty straight and there are no big chips or other signs of damage. no name, no writing, no nothing to identify it but for $35 I got to fulfill my wish to restore an old bamboo rod. It is my intent to restore it to immaculate condition and go forth and catch fish on it. Deciding the line weight will be interesting, any good ideas for how to proceed with that? Pointers to any web sites that might have some tips on cleaning it up etc.? thanks Flyfish — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ctel.net/~brooktrout flyfishing in Maine and more http://members.xoom.com/lokiskinder JG13 A proud Red Baron 2 squadron

Response:

The rod you describe sounds like one of the post-WWII Japanese import kits. The second tip was not broken.  Rather, it was an attempt to provide a spinning rod tip to go with the fly rod tip.  These rods are ubiquitous. They were of fair quality and probably not worth more than $50.00 even if it were in good condition.  Unless you just want to screw around with restoration techniques, I doubt that it is worth the time and money you’d have to put in to it in order to do a restoration. — Randall S. Davis

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I stumbled on it in a flea market. Intesting piece. 3 piece rod, with two tips (4 pieces in all). The threads are all rotten and most of the guides are missing but all the ferrules are in perfect working order. one of the tips is 3" shorter than the other, and has a fairly crude tip making me believe it was broken once. The reel seat is aluminum, and isn’t threaded but just slides down to hold the reel in place. All of the sections are pretty straight and there are no big chips or other signs of damage. no name, no writing, no nothing to identify it but for $35 I got to fulfill my wish to restore an old bamboo rod. It is my intent to restore it to immaculate condition and go forth and catch fish on it. Deciding the line weight will be interesting, any good ideas for how to proceed with that? Pointers to any web sites that might have some tips on cleaning it up etc.? thanks Flyfish — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ctel.net/~brooktrout flyfishing in Maine and more http://members.xoom.com/lokiskinder JG13 A proud Red Baron 2 squadron

Response:

Geez…….I bet you’re one of those guys that, when your friend drops by with his brand new car all excited, you pull out your consumer reports and start bashing it! Bottom line is, it is difficult at best to find a bamboo rod that does not have serious damage for as little as $35 these days.

Contraire, the man spoketh the truth and gave the original gentleman very sage advice and history…. Wayne

Response:

I have seen a convertible bamboo rod. I found it in a dumpster. It was a Grampus, came in 4 or 5 sections, and the grip was reversable, so you could use it as a spinning rod or a fly rod. It was in excellent condition and was valued at $50 to $75. It was a pretty heavy rod. I gave it to a friend who wanted it. I’m tempted to defer to the resident "gearhead" but two tips, one 3" inches shorter, doesn’t seem to indicate a "combo" rod. Have you seen such a thing? Thanks, R  

Response:

Geez…….I bet you’re one of those guys that, when your friend drops by with his brand new car all excited, you pull out your consumer reports and start bashing it! Bottom line is, it is difficult at best to find a bamboo rod that does not have serious damage for as little as $35 these days. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The rod you describe sounds like one of the post-WWII Japanese import kits. The second tip was not broken.  Rather, it was an attempt to provide a spinning rod tip to go with the fly rod tip.  These rods are ubiquitous. They were of fair quality and probably not worth more than $50.00 even if it were in good condition.  Unless you just want to screw around with restoration techniques, I doubt that it is worth the time and money you’d have to put in to it in order to do a restoration. — Randall S. Davis I stumbled on it in a flea market. Intesting piece. 3 piece rod, with two tips (4 pieces in all). The threads are all rotten and most of the guides are missing but all the ferrules are in perfect working order. one of the tips is 3" shorter than the other, and has a fairly crude tip making me believe it was broken once. The reel seat is aluminum, and isn’t threaded but just slides down to hold the reel in place. All of the sections are pretty straight and there are no big chips or other signs of damage. no name, no writing, no nothing to identify it but for $35 I got to fulfill my wish to restore an old bamboo rod. It is my intent to restore it to immaculate condition and go forth and catch fish on it. Deciding the line weight will be interesting, any good ideas for how to proceed with that? Pointers to any web sites that might have some tips on cleaning it up etc.? thanks Flyfish — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ctel.net/~brooktrout flyfishing in Maine and more http://members.xoom.com/lokiskinder JG13 A proud Red Baron 2 squadron

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Geez…….I bet you’re one of those guys that, when your friend drops by with his brand new car all excited, you pull out your consumer reports and start bashing it! Bottom line is, it is difficult at best to find a bamboo rod that does not have serious damage for as little as $35 these days.

Well, if it is such a Japanese rod, I have seen them at antique malls in new condition for around 50.00 to 75.00, HOWEVER, many old rods aren’t as readily marked as newer ones, and without further info, it would seem difficult to classify the rod described.  If the original poster would post more info, maybe ROFF could help determine exactly what it is.  Simply being bamboo does not mean good, but simply being not readily attributed by a novice to a specific maker does not mean "Japanese."  Further, I am personally aware that many experts disagree about what was or was not offered or made by many fine makers.  I would advise never dismissing a rod as "junk" or accepting a rod as "collectable" based on any unseen "guess" or even one single "eyeball" opinion. I wouldn’t think a 3" difference, with a seeming "break" would indicate a combo rod, but….? HTH? R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The rod you describe sounds like one of the post-WWII Japanese import kits. The second tip was not broken.  Rather, it was an attempt to provide a spinning rod tip to go with the fly rod tip.  These rods are ubiquitous. They were of fair quality and probably not worth more than $50.00 even if it were in good condition.  Unless you just want to screw around with restoration techniques, I doubt that it is worth the time and money you’d have to put in to it in order to do a restoration. — Randall S. Davis I stumbled on it in a flea market. Intesting piece. 3 piece rod, with two tips (4 pieces in all). The threads are all rotten and most of the guides are missing but all the ferrules are in perfect working order. one of the tips is 3" shorter than the other, and has a fairly crude tip making me believe it was broken once. The reel seat is aluminum, and isn’t threaded but just slides down to hold the reel in place. All of the sections are pretty straight and there are no big chips or other signs of damage. no name, no writing, no nothing to identify it but for $35 I got to fulfill my wish to restore an old bamboo rod. It is my intent to restore it to immaculate condition and go forth and catch fish on it. Deciding the line weight will be interesting, any good ideas for how to proceed with that? Pointers to any web sites that might have some tips on cleaning it up etc.? thanks Flyfish — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ctel.net/~brooktrout flyfishing in Maine and more http://members.xoom.com/lokiskinder JG13 A proud Red Baron 2 squadron

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Geez…….I bet you’re one of those guys that, when your friend drops by with his brand new car all excited, you pull out your consumer reports and start bashing it! Bottom line is, it is difficult at best to find a bamboo rod that does not have serious damage for as little as $35 these days. Contraire, the man spoketh the truth and gave the original gentleman very sage advice and history…. Wayne

I’m tempted to defer to the resident "gearhead" but two tips, one 3" inches shorter, doesn’t seem to indicate a "combo" rod.  Have you seen such a thing? Thanks, R

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I saw one of the Japanese Combo’s once.  A fellow I worked with said his grandfather had it made for him while in Japan just after the war (1950?). His setup came with separate sections for Fly and Spinner.  The fly guides were snake, but the spinner guides were the eye-ring type, for lack of better term.  Came in a wooden case.  Still had original lures in packs marked with Japanese writing. Opie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Geez…….I bet you’re one of those guys that, when your friend drops by with his brand new car all excited, you pull out your consumer reports and start bashing it! Bottom line is, it is difficult at best to find a bamboo rod that does not have serious damage for as little as $35 these days. Well, if it is such a Japanese rod, I have seen them at antique malls in new condition for around 50.00 to 75.00, HOWEVER, many old rods aren’t as readily marked as newer ones, and without further info, it would seem difficult to classify the rod described.  If the original poster would post more info, maybe ROFF could help determine exactly what it is.  Simply being bamboo does not mean good, but simply being not readily attributed by a novice to a specific maker does not mean "Japanese."  Further, I am personally aware that many experts disagree about what was or was not offered or made by many fine makers.  I would advise never dismissing a rod as "junk" or accepting a rod as "collectable" based on any unseen "guess" or even one single "eyeball" opinion. I wouldn’t think a 3" difference, with a seeming "break" would indicate a combo rod, but….? HTH? R The rod you describe sounds like one of the post-WWII Japanese import kits. The second tip was not broken.  Rather, it was an attempt to provide a spinning rod tip to go with the fly rod tip.  These rods are ubiquitous. They were of fair quality and probably not worth more than $50.00 even if it were in good condition.  Unless you just want to screw around with restoration techniques, I doubt that it is worth the time and money you’d have to put in to it in order to do a restoration. — Randall S. Davis I stumbled on it in a flea market. Intesting piece. 3 piece rod, with two tips (4 pieces in all). The threads are all rotten and most of the guides are missing but all the ferrules are in perfect working order. one of the tips is 3" shorter than the other, and has a fairly crude tip making me believe it was broken once. The reel seat is aluminum, and isn’t threaded but just slides down to hold the reel in place. All of the sections are pretty straight and there are no big chips or other signs of damage. no name, no writing, no nothing to identify it but for $35 I got to fulfill my wish to restore an old bamboo rod. It is my intent to restore it to immaculate condition and go forth and catch fish on it. Deciding the line weight will be interesting, any good ideas for how to proceed with that? Pointers to any web sites that might have some tips on cleaning it up etc.? thanks Flyfish — dave’s homepage madness http://www.ctel.net/~brooktrout flyfishing in Maine and more http://members.xoom.com/lokiskinder JG13 A proud Red Baron 2 squadron

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Question:

Is August trip to Fall River worthwhile and any rcommendations on guides appreciated?

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August is the slow period on Fall River.   Much better in the spring or fall. The highlight for many is the hex hatch usually in June.  Call Ray at Shasta Angler in Fall River Mills for recommended guides. Steve

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is August trip to Fall River worthwhile and any rcommendations on guides appreciated?

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is August trip to Fall River worthwhile and any rcommendations on guides appreciated?

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Hi All, I would recommend June and October for the Fall River in northern California. Go to the High Country, Montana or Alaska in August.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Is August trip to Fall River worthwhile and any rcommendations on guides appreciated?

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Hi All, I would recommend June and October for the Fall River in northern California. Go to the High Country, Montana or Alaska in August. Is August trip to Fall River worthwhile and any rcommendations on guides appreciated?

Hi Bill, Good advice again.  I know he may be able to book with Doug Swisher at that time when he is in Hamilton, Montana.  There are ready made guided trips on the Big Horn and of course the Yellowstone area can be fished in the park on one’s own.  High Country fishing can be a hit or bust situation and of course hitting the right lake at exactly the right time can be chancy.  High altitude lakes differ in climate at those elevations from spot to spot, it seems more often then not.  Some of those gin clear waters are difficult to fish and they seem to spook more easily then in the lower rivers. Anyhow, there are other western states such as Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, and Washington that have guided trips.  The national parks do not require guides but it helps.   How is the fly tying going Bill?  Did you get any memorable fishing in the last century? George — http://www.gink.com/chat

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Any other options than Rick’s Lodge to fish Fall River?

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Question:

I want tostart fly fishing for smallmouth on Trinity Lake, CA. What type of lines and flies would you recommend?, Thanks

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I want tostart fly fishing for smallmouth on Trinity Lake, CA. What type of lines and flies would you recommend?, Thanks

You really don’t need anything all that different from trout equipment. I use a 9ft. for 6WT rod that is just great for the lakes and streams nearby. I’ve heard from others who like a 7Wt to punch those largeer bass bugs through the air. I fish mostly with Wooley Buggers, Streamers and Poppers of medium size, and both my 5WT and ^WT work just fine. They also make fine trout rods as well. Keith in Waterford, VA

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Question:

I try to bring a rod/reel with me when I backpack (my friend always brings his).  I mainly bring a few flys with me.  I think a good time to fish is when the mosquitos come out.  If you look at a lake you’ll see if fish are in there when the mosquitos are out (feeding time). Harold. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?  Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment.  In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . — John Kiljan

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ? I don’t know the answer but the highest lake I have fished at with success is the Upper Hancock Lake (near the ghost town of St. Elmo) and it is, if memory serves me, just over 11,000 feet. One other lake (where I had the best fishing day of my life) is also just over 11,000 feet. Geez, 13,000 feet seems pretty high up there for fishing?

To the best of my knowledge,  trout are not native to most alpine lakes.  There is always a fall or bad rapids that prevents upstream migration.  If there are fish in high country lakes, they probably are stocked.  You’ll just have to ask.  the best place is a local fly shop. …… Seek harmony and balance in the mountains, find harmony and balance within…..

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Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?  Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  

Well, here is an answer from a dedicated fisherman who backpacks. Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment.  In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands.

Hard to say why you have never seen a fish up in the mountains… They are harder to see because they are wild and blend in with the bottom better, and they tend to be a lot smaller due to the restricted growing season. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . .

The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. Darryl Hayashida

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snip Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . — John Kiljan

Hi John,         I do a lot of solo hiking and always carry fishing equipment which pays for the space and weight.  Most of my experience is in Yosemite and Sequoia, and I’ve never failed to catch small native trout.  I know there are a lot of purist who’ll object, but this is food, and I eat every one.         I carry a collapsible 7′ rod, a mini spinning reel with 4# mono line.  I use #18 bronze treble hooks and carry a black film canister filled with fresh velveta.  I barely cover the hook, this is small, like the head of a book match.  More will work, not any better though, and the fish are usually small anyway.         I fly fish some, so I understand a little about reading water.  I found fish in 4" slow runs, places too small to hide a canteen, places you’d swear wouldn’t hold a 6" trout.  I don’t cast, just drop it in and let the water pull off some line, and when it stops I reel in the slack.  Never counted how many tries to catch a fish, but I’ve never gotten bored or hungry.         Landing the fish is no problem.  I use the 2" blade on my Swiss Army knife to clean them per the Rappalla book.  I rinse them well and nestle them head to tail, wrap them in aluminum foil, and place them in the hot embers.  They have a lot of flavor.         Other things in my fishing kit:                 Red plastic hook disgorger with the big end cut off and                         the shaft roughened                 A clean plastic super market vegetable bag which I rinse                         and use again to put the dispatched fish on my                         belt                 1/4 of an old facecloth for picking up wigglin’ fish         Guess there are some other things I carry, sliding sinkers for lakes, a couple of small casting lures to amuse myself with, and a couple  plastic look-alike bugs.  Hope this helps. –Charleroi

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Do you really think that experienced people are going post their favorite fishing spot? Would you like by some land which occasionally above water? I don’t fish, so I won’t suggest that people fish at the V. place. But others can.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George  POWER BAIT??? That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.

I thought they were talking about trout.  When I go for bear I use a much heavier line.  2lbs test is just not strong enough for bear. My mistake. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George  POWER BAIT??? That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.

Actually, I thought they were walking about trout.  When I go for bear I use a much heaver line.  2 lbs test is just too light for bear. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

  POWER BAIT???  That’s as bad as baiting bears!!! Shame on you.

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The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado.

I go for the fly fishing also.  But, the learning curve can be brutal. For someone not into fly fishing, I recommend spinners (ie: Mepps ‘0′) on a high quality 2 lb test line, -or- Power Bait fished 6 to 9 inches off the bottom with a tight line. Nothing to be proud of but they will catch fish. — I find that most people fall into one of two groups.  Those that are quick to tell you that it can’t be done, and those who are quick to try to make it work.  When all is said and done, I hope to be counted in the second group.  -  George

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writes: The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish.

I use flies, but I don’t know how to fly fish in the traditional sense. I use a spinning rod and reel. About 2-3 feet from the end of the line I attach a elongated teardrop-shaped bobber. It has a rubber tube inside that the line slides through, then to secure it, I just give it a few twists. A plug opens on one end that I can fill with water; too much and it’ll sink, too little and I can’t cast far. Simple! Then I just tie on a fly on the end of the line and, wallah, flyfishing for people like me! My knowledge is that most high lakes in Washington state are stocked. I’m not sure how to tell the difference between wild and harvested fish. Anyone know? Jason R. wherever you go, there you are – HDT

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: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout.  Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft.  That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s.

Colorado has excellent fishing in alpine lakes above 9000′ primarily as a result of aerial stocking begun in the 1950’s. Cutthroat trout are the most common with brook and rainbow trout doing well also.Due to the pristine environment, abundant aquatic insect population and light fishing pressure these trout can grow larger than their cousins in low altitude streams and rivers. The dramatic changes in water temperature of high lakes probably has the greatest effect on fishing success. As the sun warms water close to shore the fish will migrate to the center or to deeper areas of the lake. Not very productive for a fisherman stuck on the shore. For this reason the higher the lake is the better, especially as summer wears on and the lower lakes gradually become warmer. Regards,  Brian

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Third, the biggest mistake that people make when they fish alpine lakes is that they do not fish deeply enough.  Most of my fly fishing is with an extra-fast sinking shooting head (this will mean something to flyfishers), at depths of 20-40 ft.  Fishing deep is easy with spinning gear; you just need to let your spinner sink.

Would you mind terribly to expound a little bit on "extra-fast sinking shooting head" for us novice fly fishers? I mean, this is some sort of wet fly? Do you need a sinking line (maybe that is obvious but I will ask anyway). Thanks, Lawrence Kennon

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Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?

There are: In "rec.outdoors.fishing.fly"  Virtually all of my backcountry travel centers on fly fishing.  I usually make one trip a year into the GSMNP and one trip into the Wind River Range.  The former is stream fishing, the latter almost exclusively lake fishing.  Most of these lakes are at or above timberline.  I don’t want to rub it in, but we always catch fish; lots of them too. Let me take the liberty to answer some questions and clarify some misconceptions: First, just because you can’t see fish does not mean they aren’t there. You have to look VERY carefully to see fish, must have a trained eye, and you must have polarized glasses (to reduce glare).  Keep in mind that trout are prey for many beasts of the wild, and if you can see them, they can almost certainly see you.  On many occasions, the only fish I ever see are those in my hand when I’m releasing them!   Second, there are few lakes of any size in the U.S. that really have only a 2-month ice out.  There are lots of lakes, however, that may be completely iced out for only 3 months or so.  This does not preclude a productive fishery.  I have fished lakes in the Wind River Range that are ice free for at most 4 months a year (July-Oct), and yet are extremely productive.  I fished a lake last year at 11,000 ft that held cutthroats up to nearly 30 inches (yep, 30 inches, not 30 centimeters).  This lake was still 1/4 iced-in the first week of August!  There probably is a limit to how high a lake can be and still support fish, but it is probably about the same limit as for people, which is higher than 13,000 ft (I think it is between 15K and 18K, but can’t remember). Third, the biggest mistake that people make when they fish alpine lakes is that they do not fish deeply enough.  Most of my fly fishing is with an extra-fast sinking shooting head (this will mean something to flyfishers), at depths of 20-40 ft.  Fishing deep is easy with spinning gear; you just need to let your spinner sink. Fourth, although it is true that few alpine lakes outside of the Sierras have native trout, many alpine lakes have self sustaining populations of wild trout.  For example, none of the lakes in the Winds originally had fish.  Much of the stocking was done by Finis Mitchell and his family in the 1920s and 1930s.  Many of these lakes have received no fish since then. Fifth, there are fishless alpine lakes out there, no doubt about it.  Lakes can be too shallow (they freeze solid, or nearly so); they can become oxygen depleted in the winter (esp. a problem if there is no inlet or outlet); and the water can be so sterile that there aren’t enough nutrients to feed the bugs that feed the fish (typically a problem for the first lake immediately below glaciers, etc.). If you have any questions, I’d be happy to try to answer them, except for the names of the lakes .  2-3 months of the year, and yet are extremely productive fisheries. are ice free for

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The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains. I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. lk

Spinners would be my second choice if I didn’t have my fly fishing gear with me. I fished spinners for ten years before I started fly fishing. It isn’t that one is more successful than the other, I just enjoy fly fishing, especially dry fly fishing more than spin fishing. My favorite spinner was (still is on the rare occasion that I spin fish) a size 1 or 2 (small) Panther Martin black body with yellow spots, gold blade. Darryl Hayashida

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: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout.  Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft.  That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s.

As someone else commented, most of the alpine lakes in CO were stocked at some time.  My father-in-law worked for Colorado Fish and Game, and one of his jobs was stocking wilderness lakes. He’d ride a horse and lead a pack string with panniers filled with fingerlings!  Lakes that were farther than a day’s ride, or inaccessible by horseback, were stocked by helicopter.  That must have been a sight! We’ve caught trout in lakes at 12,160 feet.  Most very high lakes are small and freeze thickly in the winter, so many are sterile unless there is ongoing stocking.  Trout are able to swim through some pretty impressive falls, though, so there is some migration, and if the lake is big enough the fish will be ok through the winter. Most of the lakes I’ve backpacked to in the Colorado high country have fish in them.  This doesn’t guarantee dinner, though. —   _][   Data Support Section * National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR)       __PO Box 3000, Boulder, Colorado 80307 * 303/497-1214 * 303/497-1298 fax

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: An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the : experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there : a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude : above which you will not find fish ? : We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous : little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll : be fish in it ? I’ve fished Ice Lake in the Eagle Cap Wilderness and caught many 6 – 8 inch trout.  Ice Lake is at 8,000 ft.  That’s the highest lake with fish that I know of, but it was stocked back in the ’20s. greg rose

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The secret? Flies. Pure and simple. Wild trout feed on insects. Learn how to fly fish. I rarely fail to catch at least a few in most of the high mountain streams and lakes. At least in the California Sierra Nevada Moutains.

I like fly fishing too, but I doubt that it is "the secret". I have used a lightweight (4 lb test) with 1/16 oz. spinners and never failed to bring home fish for dinner in Colorado. lk

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It’s not hidden, you didn’t bother looking: Panel 26: Fishing         alt.fishing         alt.archery         rec.outdoors.fishing         rec.outdoors.fishing.fly         rec.boats Just like the white water paddlers. Like Muir said, Fishing is boring.

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An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ? Gary

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An interesting thread. I’d like to ask a question of the experienced mountain fishermen out there : Is there a "fish line" analogous to timberline ? i.e. an altitude above which you will not find fish ? We’re heading for CO next week and I know of a gorgeous little lake way up around 13,000. Any chance there’ll be fish in it ?

I don’t know the answer but the highest lake I have fished at with success is the Upper Hancock Lake (near the ghost town of St. Elmo) and it is, if memory serves me, just over 11,000 feet. One other lake (where I had the best fishing day of my life) is also just over 11,000 feet. Geez, 13,000 feet seems pretty high up there for fishing? You will let us know how this turns out, won’t you? Lawrence Kennon

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alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come

I always do the same thing.  Most of my hiking  is done around larger bodies of water (lakes and such) Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques?

I’m always glad I packed the rod.  Even if I don’t catch anything (most of the time) I like to fish anyway.  Gives me an excuse not to do the dishes after supper! Andrew Roberts

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Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . I’ve had reasonable success in the last few years in fishing the

backcountry.  My buddy and I mostly catch-and-release (e.g. last year in Colorado we landed over 30 in an afternoon), but we sometimes keep enough to "have a feast."  I guess I could say that the secret is to be prepared for a "hunt" to find what the fish are interested in.  Last year, it was easy enough because they were hitting small spinners (e.g., Panther Martin’s and Mepps) on very light line (e.g. 2 lb.).  However, the previous year (in New Mexico), the fish just weren’t interested in anything in our "tackle box."  So, we resorted to using little grubs found in the stream bed (helgromites (sp), I believe they are called), and the fish went nuts.  We used a very small hook and "bobbed" the bait up and down.  Actually, it was more like try to get the hook into the water and out again before one latched on.  (I actually had one fish–they were native cut-throat–jump out of the water to get the bait).  So, a lot of trial-and-error will probably be necessary to find what they are attracted to.  However, it has been load of fun.  BTW:   These cases were both streams above 9000 feet.  My only recent experience with mountain lakes was a small lake in Apache-Setgreaves (Arizona), which had obviously been stocked with Artic Grayling (and "interesting" fish to pull out of the water in Arizona!).

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Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . .

In Colorado I have had very good luck with a small spin casting rod/reel (4 lb test) using little 1/16 ounce spinners (Wooters, or Hooters, or something like that are my favorite). I have caught trout in lakes over 11,000 feet while standing on old snow on the bank and icebergs floating in the lake. Most of the lakes _do_ have edible (_very_ edible) trout in them. Have never had any luck on streams (haven’t really tried) but have seen fly fisherman catch them in streams. There is the little lake around Garfied (sorry, can’t tell you the name, that is my secret!) up about 11,000 feet or so, very small and fishable only at one end where it is deep enough. I had the best fishing day of my life there a couple years ago. We set up the tent and left the wife and kids to go look for a place to fish on this lake (first time there) and I found this little "hole" at one end. In a few minutes with approx. 7-8 casts I caught 5 great trout, several of them quite big. Needless to say we feasted that night. The bad news is that it is quite a hike off the beaten path to get there. Perhaps that is why there were a lot of hungry and unwary fish. Look for a lake like that, one that is _hard_ to get to, one that isn’t visited often. lk

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Alright, the truth has to come out sooner or later.  Why is there never a post on fishing and backpacking?  Don’t ask me to go to the alt.fishing newsgroup–those people are dedicated.  I am not.  I just want to know what I can expect if I carry a very small collapsible rod and mini-reel.  Whenever I try to fish in the backcountry, I come across tiny streams that look like there is no hope or mountain lake that is snow-free for all of two months a year and you can see to the bottom of and personally verify there are no fish in its sterile environment.  In 25 years of mountain backpacking, I have never caught a fish–although I do pretty good in the stocked lowlands. Does anyone have any wilderness fishing secrets to share with us?   Who packs a rod and are glad they did?  Secret bait?  Techniques? Equipment?  Eggs, worms, lures?  Just give it up?  Hunt for crawdads instead?  Catching local bait?  Set a line overnight?  Anything . . . — John Kiljan

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Question:

In California we have lots of dragon & damsel flies in our warm water ponds. We use some pretty fancy looking dragon fly nymphs, but I think a wooly bugger tied the size and color of you bugs will work as well.

[snip] Quite so: no need to go nuts with long-winded/tediously overdone dragon nymph patterns. If you’ve ever actually seen a dragon nymph move out, you know how damn fast those critters are, and how little time a trout/bass/whatever has to spot/target/nail ‘em. Wooly Buggers tied in general size/color with good tail action work just fine on the Right Coast, and a couple of strands of pearl flashabou seems to get the fish’s attention from greater distances as well… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.       Alpha Server Engineering < <     "What doesn’t kill you…will hurt like heck!"     < <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In California we have lots of dragon & damsel flies in our warm water ponds. We use some pretty fancy looking dragon fly nymphs, but I think a wooly bugger tied the size and color of you bugs will work as well. [snip] Quite so: no need to go nuts with long-winded/tediously overdone dragon nymph patterns. If you’ve ever actually seen a dragon nymph move out, you know how damn fast those critters are, and how little time a trout/bass/whatever has to spot/target/nail ‘em. Wooly Buggers tied in general size/color with good tail action work just fine on the Right Coast, and a couple of strands of pearl flashabou seems to get the fish’s attention from greater distances as well… Cheers! /dave

I may be fooling myself, but I like to add the black plastic eyes.  Some of the bugs have very prominent eyes, and I feel like these work a scootch better.  And if nothing else, they make my wife squeal more when I show her the fly. My three year old loves ‘em, too. I don’t go for any other anatomical features.  A sparse, fat, wooly bugger with eyes works great.

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I fish a local pond, which happens to be choked with weeds and cattails, for bass and blugill.  I have noticed a large population of both dragonflys and damselflys.  I would think the fish must eat a lot of the flies larvae.  So, what are the best patterns for these critters.   BTW, thanks for answering my other questions.  Taking up flyfishing is giving me lots of them, but isn’t that the best part of fishing? Nicolo

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In South Africa a large proportion of our fishing is for stillwater trout. We tend to have a large concentration of dragon/damsel flies in our waters over here. I tend to imitate the damselflies by using a small Wooly Bugger(size 12-14) or Filoplume damsel. For a dragonfly I either use a Hoverdragon or a pattern that I learnt from our flytying club(NFDS). The body/thorax is made up of maribou and the eyes are tuff chenile. If you need the fly tying patterns just give a shout! Paul

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Some Damselfly and Dragonfly patterns used for trout here in B.C. include: Damselfly: ‘52 Buick large Halfback Dragonfly: Bottomwalker Gomphus Doc Spratley B. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I fish a local pond, which happens to be choked with weeds and cattails, for bass and blugill.  I have noticed a large population of both dragonflys and damselflys.  I would think the fish must eat a lot of the flies larvae.  So, what are the best patterns for these critters.   BTW, thanks for answering my other questions.  Taking up flyfishing is giving me lots of them, but isn’t that the best part of fishing? Nicolo

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I fish a local pond, which happens to be choked with weeds and cattails, for bass and blugill.  I have noticed a large population of both dragonflys and damselflys.  I would think the fish must eat a lot of the flies larvae.  So, what are the best patterns for these critters.  

Hi Nicolo, In California we have lots of dragon & damsel flies in our warm water ponds.  We use some pretty fancy looking dragon fly nymphs, but I think a wooly bugger tied the size and color of you bugs will work as well. Trout feeding on emerging damsels requires matching their size, color and action.  I think that bass and panfish are a little less selective.  We also use small/medium poppers for warm water fish.  I like all black poppers and yellow or frog colored, also. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA

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Question:

I’d like to her from someone in each State:  What are the water access laws in your State?  Doesn’t need to be long, but concise would be nice. Email or post.  Colorado is exempt from this request, as I already know. Thanx. –Chris

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As far as Maine goes, water access is not very clear.  There is not one set of laws that cover rivers, lakes, great ponds, and their flowages.  The state owns the land under a Great Pond (10 acres if natural, 30 acres if man-made) and you have the right to cross private, undeveloped land to get access – IF you cross by foot for the purposes of fishing or fowling. No vehicles, no mechanical aids (wheels under a canoe are out), etc.  Developed land includes fields planted with commercial crops, so you can’t cross a wheat or corn field to get to the pond either. You also have the right to canoe any navigable water.  Navigable means it can float a log.  The right does NOT include access to the bottom of the river, nor does it include the right to go around obstructions like waterfalls – even if you stay below the high water mark. Fly fisherman cannot by law walk up any stream bed they choose – even if the water is navigable.  Canoeist cannot legally get out of their canoe and line, jump on a rock, or wade through a shallow – although this is not enforced anywhere I know of. Dams and their flowages are owned by the dam owner, and they can post them no tresspass, so you cannot walk around the dam to get access to the river below. Most do not, and on popular runs, the dam owners either provide, or let volunteer groups maintain portage paths around the dam to avoid indiscriminate damage to their property.  The legal liability of this access may cause more dam owners to post their property in the future.   Many people in the state operate under the position that anything under the high water mark in a river is fair game and that you can carry around obstacles.  This is not the case (according to the Parks and Recreation office) and you are trespassing when you do this.  Maine land owners are fairly tolerant of canoeists however, and so we get away with this. The laws that are in affect in Maine are a conglomeration of multiple colonial ordinances that are still in affect since the time when Maine was part of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, something called the "Great Pond Act" and various court rulings over the years.   I have asked the reference librarian at the state law library for help.  If I get any better clarification on this I’ll let you know. Regards, -Tim

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This would probably be better answered by someone with more law knowledge than me, but I haven’t seen anyone answer for California so I thought I’d post what I know.  I seem to remember that the there was a major legal battle concerning public access along the South Fork of the American in California (sometime in the late 70’s?).  The private land owners along some sections of it actually tried to get river rafting completely banned from the river.  The result of the long and ugly battle was that the South Fork of the American was considered a navigatable waterway and therefore the private owners cannot restrict boating traffic on the river.  Rafters also legally have access to land up to the high water mark.  Despite the legal rights of boaters to be there, the section of river with most of the populated private property (ie. nice riverfront houses) has been designated as a "quiet zone".  In the "quiet zone", boaters are supposed to speak in normal conversation and not yell or have waterfights.  Also, out of respect to the landowners, boaters are supposed to choose state owned lands for lunch spots (and their are plenty of adequate places to stop that are not privately owned). Unfortunately I have no idea what the access laws are in Pennsylvania (the state where I currently live). Lori

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So far I have: Colorado New Mexico California Arkansas Main Keep them coming.  This important information. –Chris

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Here’s a quick summary of the Arkansas Access situation. From……Arkansas Riparian Boundaries           Richard L. Elgin and David R. Knowles           Surveying and Mapping, Vol. 44, No. 1, 1984, pp. 39-57      "Until the recent decision of State v. McIlroy (268 Ark. 227) (1980), the Arkansas navigability criteria rested on the watercourse’s commercial viability.      In State v. McIlroy, supra, the definition and commerce test for navigability was broadened to include recreational use. The case concerns the navigability of the Mulberry River, a favorite with canoeists, McIlroy, owner of land on both sides of the Mulberry River, sought a lower court ruling that he be declared the owner of the bed of the Mulberry River since the river was nonnavigable. The defendants were the Ozark Society, a conservationist group, and two companies that rent canoes for use on the Mulberry. The defendants generally claimed that the Mulberry was a navigable stream, but that even if the court found otherwise, a public easement in the Mulberry should be recognized.      The lower court found that the Mulberry River was nonnavigable, that the McIlroys owned it as riparian property owners, and that they could prevent the public from using the stream (the McIlroys owning both sides).      The State, the Ozark Society, and one of the canoe companies appealed to the Arkansas Supreme Court." From the record:      The facts presented prove that the Mulberry River at the point in question is capable of recreational use and has been used extensively for recreational uses. We must now decide whether such a stream is navigable.      While navigation in fact is widely regarded as the proper test of navigability…it is a test which should not be applied too literally… Arkansas has adopted a standard definition of navigability. Lutesville Sand & Gravel Co. v. McLaughlin, supra. The test, which was similiar to the general test used by the federal courts, defines navigability in terms of a river’s potential for commercial usefulness; that is whether the water could be used to remove the products of the surrounding land to another place…      Therefore, a river is legally navigable if actually navigable and actually navigable if commercially valuable. (The court predicted that the waters of the state would be used to a much greater extent for recreational purposes than they were at the time of the decision (1915). The court observed that since that time no case had been before them that "involved the public’s right to use a stream which has recreational value, but lacks commercial adaptability in the traditional sense." The Court said the Arkansas definition was "remnant of the steamboat era.") Concluding, the majority decision concerning the navigability of the Mulberry, the Court said:      Arkansas, as most states in their infancy, was mostly concerned with river traffic by steamboats or barges when cases like Lutesville, supra, were decided. We have had no case regarding recreational use of waters such as the Mulberry. It may be that our decisions did or did not anticipate such use of streams which are suitable, as the Mulberry is, for recreational use. Such use would include flatbottomed boats for fishing and canoes for floating – or both. There is no doubt that the segment of the Mulberry River that is involved in this lawsuit can be used for a substantial portion of the year for recreational purposes. Consequently, we hold that it is navigable at that place with all the incidental rights of that determination. In follow up, this case set the precedent which almost every paddler in the state knows about and several carry copies of the ruling in their shuttle rigs, however, there still remains landowners weilding guns, who insist on the respect of their ownership. As with many other states paddlers here backdown, avoiding confrontation many times. Currently most of the hairy runs either begin or end on private property and we have to be very careful here, even though we have an excellent precedent set by the courts. — Shelby D. Johnson,    Research Specialist         TEL: (501) 575-6159 CAST, Center for Advanced Spatial Technologies    FAX: (501) 575-5218   12 Ozark Hall, University of Arkansas

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What exactly are you looking for?  I didn’t see the original article. Just this followup. -Dennis

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What exactly are you looking for?  I didn’t see the original article. Just this followup.

I’m trying to find what the legal river access is in each state.  So far I have: Colorado New Mexico Alaska Arkansas Main California I know people paddle in more states than that….. –Chris

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Question:

Does anyone know about fishing in Western Mass., particularity around Turners Falls/Greenfield and/or in Lake Quabin? I’m interested in knowing about bass, trout and/or what-ever-there-is fishing. I also love flyfishing.                  Thank you in advance!

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Does anyone know about fishing in Western Mass., particularity around Turners Falls/Greenfield and/or in Lake Quabin? I’m interested in knowing about bass, trout and/or what-ever-there-is fishing. I also love flyfishing.                 Thank you in advance!

I fished Quabin resevoir with my dad in the 60’s.  Most folks fished for lake trout.  I liked to cast spoons or spinners from shore and sometimes hooked some nice sized rainbows (19 inches).  I also liked to head up that creek which was full of brook trout at that time.  Since then I have heard that atlantic salmon have been introduced and have produced some excellent fishing.  There was a river called the icy river I think that was popular for trout.  Can’t remember where it was. Andy S.

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Question:

Could any one help locate the name of the river in MD that was on TV channel ESPN called Flyfishing America April 1, 1995. I hope to be out that way soon. Thanks

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Could any one help locate the name of the river in MD that was on TV channel ESPN called Flyfishing America April 1, 1995. I hope to be out that way soon. Thanks

Didn’t see the show, but if it was Maryland, it probably was the Gunpowder. Paul DiConza NY Capital District Angler

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I believe the show was filmed on the North Branch of the Potomac below the Randolph Jennings Dam.  The general public cannot fish where the filming took place !!!!  I have fished in that river this spring and caught a few, biggest about 13".  There are large fish in there but they are fish that have been released from hatchery operation  by dam.  1 mile below dam is closed to public.  Gunpowder river north of Baltimore is probably better ‘bet but very busy on weekends and during good hatches.                                                    regards leo

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