Question:

That’s a pretty little fish from a lovely looking stream!   Ian Scott http://www.about-flyfishing.com/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For anyone that’s interested take a look at my first fish of the year. Here is the baby that started that inspired the post. www.thefigs.net

Response:

For anyone that’s interested take a look at my first fish of the year. Here is the baby that started that inspired the post. www.thefigs.net

Response:

…..Valley Creek…….flows through Valley Forge National Park…….a perfect breeding ground for the Brownies, and they thrived, even in the shadow of the Philadelphia metropolis……

Damn!  I looked at that creek one time, about six or seven years ago. My sister’s back yard borders the park.  When I went to visit her I looked at the stream rather closely and thought that it might be an adequate habitat but…..nah, WAY too urban.  Damn! Wolfgang who hadn’t bothered to bring any fishing gear      :(

Response:

Carlos!! First fish on a fly, on Valley Creek!!  Quite an accomplishment! My first trout came on an Olive Caddis Pupa (didn’t have a clue what it was then) on the Tulpehocken in Reading.  I was fortunate enough to be on that creek, which is quite wide, so I didn’t have to worry as much about catching the trees.  I did my share of churning up the water behind me, but would suggest the same approach to any new flyfisherman (just make sure to give yourself plenty of room between yourself and the trainee). As for Valley Creek, although I caught my first trout on the Tulpehocken, Valley Creek was my training ground (before and after).  For those of you who don’t know this creek,  The bottom section (the most productive) flows through Valley Forge National Park.  It’s a catch and release section of water due to PCB pollution from a train spill.  Although this event was unfortunate, it did force the DER to take this stream off of the stocking list.  Because of it’s limestone character, Valley Creek turned out to be a perfect breeding ground for the Brownies, and they thrived, even in the shadow of the Philadelphia metropolis.  These fish are quite "smart" though, because of the regs, and significant fishing pressure, they have been caught & released several, if not numerous, times.  The stream is not too wide (guessing an AVERAGE of 7-8 feet, but my comrade may correct me) and usually quite clear, so the approach can be quite tough.  There is a good population of midges on this creek, and the most prolific mayfly hatch is the Sulphur in May/June. Valley Forge Park itself is a nice place to take the family to learn about history, and to just take in the sites.  It is a very large park for it’s location close to the city, and there is a large contingent of deer in the park that can easily be seen in the morning and evenings (of course they are protected).  There’s plenty of room to spread out the picnic blanket, a paved recreation/walking trail flows throughout the park, but you can wander wherever you choose.  There’s also a nice bike trail along the Schuylkill River (Valley Creek empties into this river in the Park) that can lead you right into Center City Philadelphia if you have the energy (it’s 15-20 miles to Center City).   There is also a nice population of Smallmouth (in the River only) but it’s tough to fish ‘em unless you have a boat or float tube (guessing 200+ feet wide and cannot be crossed by foot). Although the average fish in this creek is probably 10-14 inches at best,  I’ve caught 20+ inch Browns in this creek, and have seen a few 25+, at the right time of year.  If you plan on visiting the Park make sure to pack the fly gear. A basic pair of hippers should get you by, remember to keep in the shadows, and tread softly, The Finn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

Yes, this is all true. The creek from what I was told is extremly hard to fish. I felt very lucky to catch one on my second visit there. I am actually moving in the summer about 15 min. from Tuplehocken, I have not fished there yet but have heard some great things about it. Valley Creek and French Creek are currently my home waters until June. Are there any tips about Tuplehocken that I can use, especially since it will be my new home waters.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carlos!! First fish on a fly, on Valley Creek!!  Quite an accomplishment! My first trout came on an Olive Caddis Pupa (didn’t have a clue what it was then) on the Tulpehocken in Reading.  I was fortunate enough to be on that creek, which is quite wide, so I didn’t have to worry as much about catching the trees.  I did my share of churning up the water behind me, but would suggest the same approach to any new flyfisherman (just make sure to give yourself plenty of room between yourself and the trainee). As for Valley Creek, although I caught my first trout on the Tulpehocken, Valley Creek was my training ground (before and after).  For those of you who don’t know this creek,  The bottom section (the most productive) flows through Valley Forge National Park.  It’s a catch and release section of water due to PCB pollution from a train spill.  Although this event was unfortunate, it did force the DER to take this stream off of the stocking list.  Because of it’s limestone character, Valley Creek turned out to be a perfect breeding ground for the Brownies, and they thrived, even in the shadow of the Philadelphia metropolis.  These fish are quite "smart" though, because of the regs, and significant fishing pressure, they have been caught & released several, if not numerous, times.  The stream is not too wide (guessing an AVERAGE of 7-8 feet, but my comrade may correct me) and usually quite clear, so the approach can be quite tough.  There is a good population of midges on this creek, and the most prolific mayfly hatch is the Sulphur in May/June. Valley Forge Park itself is a nice place to take the family to learn about history, and to just take in the sites.  It is a very large park for it’s location close to the city, and there is a large contingent of deer in the park that can easily be seen in the morning and evenings (of course they are protected).  There’s plenty of room to spread out the picnic blanket, a paved recreation/walking trail flows throughout the park, but you can wander wherever you choose.  There’s also a nice bike trail along the Schuylkill River (Valley Creek empties into this river in the Park) that can lead you right into Center City Philadelphia if you have the energy (it’s 15-20 miles to Center City).   There is also a nice population of Smallmouth (in the River only) but it’s tough to fish ‘em unless you have a boat or float tube (guessing 200+ feet wide and cannot be crossed by foot). Although the average fish in this creek is probably 10-14 inches at best,  I’ve caught 20+ inch Browns in this creek, and have seen a few 25+, at the right time of year.  If you plan on visiting the Park make sure to pack the fly gear. A basic pair of hippers should get you by, remember to keep in the shadows, and tread softly, The Finn I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

nice’un matt… my first was discovered in lost cove creek.  i continue to this day to be the recipient of the meager crumbs offered by ol pj, who for some misguided reason carted my ass along on one of his wayno-less forays into lost cove creek in 1979 or 1980. on our way through morganton, i bought a fenwick fiberglass rod and a martin reel.  back then you could drive the goat trail to the creek…if you didn’t care about the underbody.  as i recall, jim showed me a knot, gave me 2 yellow humpies, and said – "there’s the stream, the fish are in it, good luck"… leaving me to flog about in lonely but uncriticized desperation, he then went way upstream to the sassafrass area.  i waded, slid into the water with my rubber-sole hip boots (yeah, he thought that was funny too – jim’s got a dangerous sense of funny – i soon discovered the humor, painfully so).  but, i caught a trout in a riffle right in front of me.    don’t have any idea what it was, but it hooked me and i’ve been wigglin happy on the hook ever since. to this day, i consider pj’s gift of the stream second only to the grace of marriage to my wife rachel. jeff (who’s formal education in trout streams didn’t begin until i matriculated with wally and some of this crowd) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career. My freshman year at Appalachian State found me far from friends and family, "trapped" in the mountains of N.C., with no drivers license and only my mountain bike to get around. The state of PA had decided that it would be safer for my fellow citizens if I went without a license for a few years, so I pedaled my ass everywhere. This sounds pretty healthy, until you’re faced with a two mile ride home after last call. Anyway, I had studied up on Boone for a few years while living in Chapel Hill and had a long list of streams scoped out well before I was able to move there. I had dog eared guide books, a pile of coffee stained topos and a long overdue North Carolina coffee table book (sorry Chapel Hill Public Library) that would ultimately lead me to some North Carolina Brookies.     I arrived in time for the spring semester and waited out the winter for my first Carolina Mountain spring. It did arrive eventually, but by that time I was hellbent on catching some trout. Over the winter I had made ‘friends’ with a neighbor of mine whose dad had exiled him to the mountains for an out of control cocaine and hooker habit, which he financed with his dad’s Visa. True story, nice guy, but a little "troubled". The gist of  the story is that the guy’s grandfather had given him a few cane rods. First time I laid eyes on that Abercrombie and Fitch ( he wouldn’t part with the Orvis, even after months of badgering) a deal was struck. I was out one Yamaha receiver and the proud owner of my first bamboo rod. This was a really big deal at the time and could only mean good things in my quest for Brookies.      By the blue lines on my topo, the nearest stream to my hole-in-the-wall basement apt. was Winklers Creek. In the heat of the summer, this stream plays host to naked hippy chicks who sun themselves on the rocks. My first trip there was far too chilly for that type of thing but later in the year I had quite a few pleasant days out. Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike, made a quick stop at Peabody’s to grab a few pints for the event, and hit the stream. I put in at the "swimming pool" where I cast the A&F on water for the first time. She was heavy, but had a nice feel, and I soon had the rhythm down enough to get moving and catch some fish. Not twenty feet upstream from the "swimming pool" was a smaller pool, banked by huge boulders on all sides and covered by a canopy of spring greenery. I had sense enough at the time to sneak up on my quarry and managed to find a spot hidden from the pool where I could sit with a pint and relax while I scanned for risers. I barely had a gulp of beer down before I saw my first sign of life. A trout rose in a flash from the bottom, swirled, and engulfed a small sulfur. It was the type of rise that says, "throw me your sloppiest, splashiest cast and I’ll still eat the fly". I sat there for maybe a minute or two, slammed half my beer and then slinked down the the tail of the pool. I took position where could peer over a boulder and pick my victim. The fish were rising sporadically but persistently and before too long I let loose with my cast. The 9 foot cane rod was huge for this stream but handled the line beautifully. My cast dropped perfectly on the water. Of course, like in any good fishing story, the fish rose from the bottom gnashed down on the fly and headed for deeper water. I heaved back, set the hook, and proceeded to land my first North Carolina Brookie. I have since felt similiar emotions, but only rarely, and only when something happens that makes me think "it could *never*  get any better than this". McCray It took me a while to remember the first one, even tho it was less than 3 years ago.  I had to refer back to old messages & posts to finally pin it down.  The first one for me also represented another milestone, of sorts: it was without any ambiguity the smallest striped bass I have ever seen, somewhere around 9 inches or so.  It took a 10 and a half foot 9 weight to tame him  :-) I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

    Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind

Good story Matt. Willi

Response:

That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight. Touch and go the whole time, eh?

BTW, Jeff, sometimes to add excitement to the fish-landing activity I’ll loosen my reel seat just enough while fishing so that hooking a fish causes the reel to fall off into the water. Makes an otherwise average fish seem like a *monster*. Just another of those tricks I learned from a fellow ROFFian. ‘Course seeing as you are the one who *taught* me that trick I guess you already know it. –Steve

Response:

Yeah – I ’bout died of exhaustion. Must have had to fight the monster for 30 seconds, but time went by so slow it seemed like a whole minute or two. — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Welcome to this perfidious hobby! Your family and friends have my sympathy. My first ever fish on a fly was a rainbow caught on an orange cow dung fly beside the picnic area at Snowbird creek almost seventeen years ago. I had a $60 Daiwa 7-weight fly rod and some kind of Cortland reel. That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight.  Touch and go the whole time, eh?

Response:

That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight. Touch and go the whole time, eh? BTW, Jeff, sometimes to add excitement to the fish-landing activity I’ll loosen my reel seat just enough while fishing so that hooking a fish causes the reel to fall off into the water. Makes an otherwise average fish seem like a

*monster*. alright, alright….

Response:

Congratulations! My first fish on a fly was a chub.  I hated chub.  This stupid chub, which was sitting in a pool with a few brook trout, took my wooley bugger that I was told would catch me lots of brook trout.  The chub dang near devoured the whole fly.   I really dislike fish that make squeaking noises when you’re trying to dislodge a hook from it’s mouth.  I can never get over that. Spooks me too much to hear this ugly looking thing make noises while I’ve got the forceps in its mouth.  Gives me the shivers. I almost gave up on fly fishing after that.  I was about 15 years old, and had the impression that the only fish I could catch on a fly were beautiful trout.   Thankfully, I’ve discovered that’s not true.  I still can’t deal with the freakin squeeks of a chub though. Ian Scott http://www.about-flyfishing.com/

Response:

nice story matt…… i crossed winkler’s yesterday on a trip into boone. the ice has melted and i thought about the times when we used to fish that lil ole feeder stream that flows into winklers….. mebbe i’ll go back there this year. we’re getting rain today…. unbelievable, maybe 6 inches of snow this season total. i’m gonna head out somewhere today if the rains let up…. thinkin’ about high up on the watauga. see ya in pa, –walt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career. My freshman year at Appalachian State found me far from friends and family, "trapped" in the mountains of N.C., with no drivers license and only my mountain bike to get around. The state of PA had decided that it would be safer for my fellow citizens if I went without a license for a few years, so I pedaled my ass everywhere. This sounds pretty healthy, until you’re faced with a two mile ride home after last call. Anyway, I had studied up on Boone for a few years while living in Chapel Hill and had a long list of streams scoped out well before I was able to move there. I had dog eared guide books, a pile of coffee stained topos and a long overdue North Carolina coffee table book (sorry Chapel Hill Public Library) that would ultimately lead me to some North Carolina Brookies.     I arrived in time for the spring semester and waited out the winter for my first Carolina Mountain spring. It did arrive eventually, but by that time I was hellbent on catching some trout. Over the winter I had made ‘friends’ with a neighbor of mine whose dad had exiled him to the mountains for an out of control cocaine and hooker habit, which he financed with his dad’s Visa. True story, nice guy, but a little "troubled". The gist of  the story is that the guy’s grandfather had given him a few cane rods. First time I laid eyes on that Abercrombie and Fitch ( he wouldn’t part with the Orvis, even after months of badgering) a deal was struck. I was out one Yamaha receiver and the proud owner of my first bamboo rod. This was a really big deal at the time and could only mean good things in my quest for Brookies.      By the blue lines on my topo, the nearest stream to my hole-in-the-wall basement apt. was Winklers Creek. In the heat of the summer, this stream plays host to naked hippy chicks who sun themselves on the rocks. My first trip there was far too chilly for that type of thing but later in the year I had quite a few pleasant days out. Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike, made a quick stop at Peabody’s to grab a few pints for the event, and hit the stream. I put in at the "swimming pool" where I cast the A&F on water for the first time. She was heavy, but had a nice feel, and I soon had the rhythm down enough to get moving and catch some fish. Not twenty feet upstream from the "swimming pool" was a smaller pool, banked by huge boulders on all sides and covered by a canopy of spring greenery. I had sense enough at the time to sneak up on my quarry and managed to find a spot hidden from the pool where I could sit with a pint and relax while I scanned for risers. I barely had a gulp of beer down before I saw my first sign of life. A trout rose in a flash from the bottom, swirled, and engulfed a small sulfur. It was the type of rise that says, "throw me your sloppiest, splashiest cast and I’ll still eat the fly". I sat there for maybe a minute or two, slammed half my beer and then slinked down the the tail of the pool. I took position where could peer over a boulder and pick my victim. The fish were rising sporadically but persistently and before too long I let loose with my cast. The 9 foot cane rod was huge for this stream but handled the line beautifully. My cast dropped perfectly on the water. Of course, like in any good fishing story, the fish rose from the bottom gnashed down on the fly and headed for deeper water. I heaved back, set the hook, and proceeded to land my first North Carolina Brookie. I have since felt similiar emotions, but only rarely, and only when something happens that makes me think "it could *never*  get any better than this". McCray It took me a while to remember the first one, even tho it was less than 3 years ago.  I had to refer back to old messages & posts to finally pin it down.  The first one for me also represented another milestone, of sorts: it was without any ambiguity the smallest striped bass I have ever seen, somewhere around 9 inches or so.  It took a 10 and a half foot 9 weight to tame him  :-) I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

– Tight Lines, –Walt Fly Fishing NC & more… http://www.ezflyfish.com http://www.wilsoncreekoutfitters.com

Response:

Welcome to this perfidious hobby! Your family and friends have my sympathy. My first ever fish on a fly was a rainbow caught on an orange cow dung fly beside the picnic area at Snowbird creek almost seventeen years ago. I had a $60 Daiwa 7-weight fly rod and some kind of Cortland reel. The really neat thing was that I caught it on a dry fly and got to see the fish rise and take the fly. I don’t know why I picked Snowbird instead of a more convenient stream, but that was it. — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

I was bullied into trying a fly rod by my fishing partner one day about 12 years ago and my first fish as a brightly spotted brookie about 4" long, caught on what I think was a little bloody butcher. All of which sounds fine, until you realize I was using a 10′ 7wt rod and fishing for steelhead (lake run rainbows?) at the time…… Things have improved a little since. It was a pretty fish though, and it remains the only brookie I have ever caught on a fly. Vaughan

Response:

I started fly-fishing with a two-handed European-style salmon rod. (Most of the guys in our unofficial fishing club prefer salmon fishing nowadays.) The first catch was a 4" salmon parr from river Gaula in Norway. — Jarmo Hurri address or apply rot13 to header email address.

Response:

Welcome to this perfidious hobby! Your family and friends have my sympathy. My first ever fish on a fly was a rainbow caught on an orange cow dung fly beside the picnic area at Snowbird creek almost seventeen years ago. I had a $60 Daiwa 7-weight fly rod and some kind of Cortland reel.

That must have been an epic battle on that 7 weight.  Touch and go the whole time, eh?

Response:

I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories. I was bullied into trying a fly rod by my fishing partner one day about 12 years ago and my first fish as a brightly spotted brookie about 4" long, caught on what I think was a little bloody butcher. All of which sounds fine, until you realize I was using a 10′ 7wt rod…

Well that puts RWP’s fish battle to shame, doesn’t it?

Response:

Lissen here – that was an epic battle. Me and my stick versus the cunning slimy carnivorous predator! — Bob Patton

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories. I was bullied into trying a fly rod by my fishing partner one day about 12 years ago and my first fish as a brightly spotted brookie about 4" long, caught on what I think was a little bloody butcher. All of which sounds fine, until you realize I was using a 10′ 7wt rod… Well that puts RWP’s fish battle to shame, doesn’t it?

Response:

    Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career. My freshman year at Appalachian State found me far from friends and family, "trapped" in the mountains of N.C., with no drivers license and only my mountain bike to get around. The state of PA had decided that it would be safer for my fellow citizens if I went without a license for a few years, so I pedaled my ass everywhere. This sounds pretty healthy, until you’re faced with a two mile ride home after last call. Anyway, I had studied up on Boone for a few years while living in Chapel Hill and had a long list of streams scoped out well before I was able to move there. I had dog eared guide books, a pile of coffee stained topos and a long overdue North Carolina coffee table book (sorry Chapel Hill Public Library) that would ultimately lead me to some North Carolina Brookies.     I arrived in time for the spring semester and waited out the winter for my first Carolina Mountain spring. It did arrive eventually, but by that time I was hellbent on catching some trout. Over the winter I had made ‘friends’ with a neighbor of mine whose dad had exiled him to the mountains for an out of control cocaine and hooker habit, which he financed with his dad’s Visa. True story, nice guy, but a little "troubled". The gist of  the story is that the guy’s grandfather had given him a few cane rods. First time I laid eyes on that Abercrombie and Fitch ( he wouldn’t part with the Orvis, even after months of badgering) a deal was struck. I was out one Yamaha receiver and the proud owner of my first bamboo rod. This was a really big deal at the time and could only mean good things in my quest for Brookies.      By the blue lines on my topo, the nearest stream to my hole-in-the-wall basement apt. was Winklers Creek. In the heat of the summer, this stream plays host to naked hippy chicks who sun themselves on the rocks. My first trip there was far too chilly for that type of thing but later in the year I had quite a few pleasant days out. Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike, made a quick stop at Peabody’s to grab a few pints for the event, and hit the stream. I put in at the "swimming pool" where I cast the A&F on water for the first time. She was heavy, but had a nice feel, and I soon had the rhythm down enough to get moving and catch some fish. Not twenty feet upstream from the "swimming pool" was a smaller pool, banked by huge boulders on all sides and covered by a canopy of spring greenery. I had sense enough at the time to sneak up on my quarry and managed to find a spot hidden from the pool where I could sit with a pint and relax while I scanned for risers. I barely had a gulp of beer down before I saw my first sign of life. A trout rose in a flash from the bottom, swirled, and engulfed a small sulfur. It was the type of rise that says, "throw me your sloppiest, splashiest cast and I’ll still eat the fly". I sat there for maybe a minute or two, slammed half my beer and then slinked down the the tail of the pool. I took position where could peer over a boulder and pick my victim. The fish were rising sporadically but persistently and before too long I let loose with my cast. The 9 foot cane rod was huge for this stream but handled the line beautifully. My cast dropped perfectly on the water. Of course, like in any good fishing story, the fish rose from the bottom gnashed down on the fly and headed for deeper water. I heaved back, set the hook, and proceeded to land my first North Carolina Brookie. I have since felt similiar emotions, but only rarely, and only when something happens that makes me think "it could *never*  get any better than this". McCray

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It took me a while to remember the first one, even tho it was less than 3 years ago.  I had to refer back to old messages & posts to finally pin it down.  The first one for me also represented another milestone, of sorts: it was without any ambiguity the smallest striped bass I have ever seen, somewhere around 9 inches or so.  It took a 10 and a half foot 9 weight to tame him  :-) I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

Hippy chicks are not shy about their love of the sun, and rarely turn down a cold beer. Oh yeah, so on a sunny April afternoon, I strapped the rod to the bike…

Yeah, I hear dat….

Response:

   Although, not my first fish on a fly, there is one trout that sticks out in my mind as a defining moment in my fishing career.

        boys, i have fished for thirty years in the blue ridge, and i have seen exactly three folks who can do it as well as this guy. thanks for pulling back the veil on your first time, mccrayfish.         the down side is, it will get much tougher the older you get. the blue ridge is not a gentle partner. your friend in the old north state wayno

Response:

I got my brand new fly fishing gear as a gift from my wife for Christmas in the way of an Orvis gift certificate. Eager to get out on the water, not haveing fly fished before, I took my gear to the local pond to practice my casting. Went well, nice open space after several cast seemed to have the hang of it. A couple of weeks later went to fish at Valley Creek here in PA. This stream is a class A Wild Trout stream that is very difficult to fish. Spent the afternoon untageling my line from trees and loosing several nymph flies. But today, 2 days after the first snow storm in the Philadelphia area, I had the urge to get out and try my rod again. Went back to the same stream because I know at this time of year this was my best shot to catch something. Within minutes of getting to the stream I found a "honey hole" 4 feet deep and filled with trout, after an hour of casting a hares ear nymph, I guessed that I had spooked all the fish because of my line slapping the water, or getting caught in fallen leaves, or snaging rocks, so I decided to move upstream and hope to find another hole like this one. 3 hours later, after a mile of walking upstream and not seeing a single fish, I decided it was time to call it a day. With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Response:

 With my tail between my legs I walked back towards the honey hole where my car was parked. I decided before I go in I would just make a couple more casts hopeing the fish came back. As I lifted my line a felt a tug, prepared to lose another fly, I lifted my rod tip a lo and behold "FISH ON". A beutiful 10 inch brown, not a big fish, but a fish that will stay in my mind forever. The first fish of the year, and on a fly, it just doesn’t get much better than that. I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

        well, with deepest regret i must admit that your story is far more heroic than mine.         i signed up to work for a law firm in greensboro, nc, in the fall of 1969.  one of the partners was a guy who is still one of my best friends, a yankee from uptstate new york, around the roscoe area. i had fished with a fly rod since i was 9 or 10, but only for warm water fish.  he suggested a trip to the catskills, and there we were: the beaverkill, the willowemoc, harry darby, walt dette, all that yankee folklore…and it was really neat.  but the first fish i caught was a 6 inch brown, hauled in on the end of a muddler minnow, on the east branch of the delaware, a long way from the crystal waters that would become my home, just a year or so from then.  but that’s another story, with another friend. wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

"Carlos Figueroa" wrote… I thought maybe this story would inspire a thread of stories about everyones first fish caught on a fly. I’m sure there are many stories out there that stick in peoples memories.

Your story is better than mine.  The first fish I caught on a fly was a 3" Bluegill 23 years ago.  But I can safely say it’s been all up hill from there. Joel Axelrad **DFD**

Response:

    My first was a ten inch brook trout on a size 8 hopper. I was lucky enough to spend my younger years in a town with many good trout streams within biking distance, and caught this one on a little spring creek that ran behind the IGA.     It was great growing up with 3 trout streams within 15min bike ride of my house, and once I got the hang of the fly rod, there were some dandy Bull trout to be had. With the ban on bulls in Alberta, I’d bet some of my old fishin’ grounds have some dandy bulls (Although I once found a dead 34" bull under the bridge, so even then there were some hogs).     Robbie

Response:

Question:

Anyone have any suggestions about cleaning floating lines???  Seems I came across a bottle of Fenwick line cleaner in my odds and ends box a few months ago and struck upon the bright idea of cleaning up my fly lines.  Well I cleaned a 2 year old Sage quiet taper 2wt and an Orvis 6wt DT with about 5 years on it and discovered after fishing with them over the last few month that they both started showing extreme wear.  Both now have concentric cracks ringing the lines where there were none before… lots of them…. or at least none were noticeable before.  Both of these lines look ruined. Any thoughts??

Response:

Anyone have any suggestions about cleaning floating lines???  Seems I came across a bottle of Fenwick line cleaner in my odds and ends box a few months ago and struck upon the bright idea of cleaning up my fly lines.  Well I cleaned a 2 year old Sage quiet taper 2wt and an Orvis 6wt DT with about 5 years on it and discovered after fishing with them over the last few month that they both started showing extreme wear.  Both now have concentric cracks ringing the lines where there were none before… lots of them…. or at least none were noticeable before.  Both of these lines look ruined. Any thoughts??

______  The fly lines were dried out Ed.  When you casted them, they couldn’t stretch.  The coating cracked, especially where the fly line (about thirty feet back) pivots on the tip top of your fly rod.  There is only one fly line cleaner in the world that will restore the Plasticizers into fly lines.  I’d suggest you check out my web site for that answer.  Two fly lines is a lot of money.  Sorry you lost them Ed. Just throw them away now.  They’re shot.  Or just go to the blue thingie below. Hope this helps answer your question. — Sincerely, George G. http://www.gink.com/products/gg_pz.html

Response:

Why don’t you just turn the double taper around?  If it’s a two year old line, unless you fish it every day it should still be plenty good… if the coating is ruined on a line that "new" the manufacturer should be willin to replace it.  Typically, a FFer uses the first 30-40 feet of a DT line more than anything else, so if you turn it around, you’ll be at a diifferent "wear spot" than before =) A good habit to get into, especially if you fish infrequentyly is removing line from reels… the tight coils aren’t a real good way to store the line, and when you fish with it, the water on the outer coils seeps down onto the inner coils, leaaving moisture on the line, allowing it to collect dust and dirt. Strip the line off the reel into a bucket of warm water, then draw it through a damp cotton cloth with a SMALL amount of a MILD detergent (like Ivory soap) on it into another bucket of cool water.  Draw the line back through a dry cotton cloth into loose coils onto a clean surface.  Coil the line loosely and hang it on a hanger that has a t-shirt over the wire, then place another tshirt over it and hang it in a cool, dark place until you’re going to use it again. I do this at the end of every season and have had some Cortland and Mastery lines last 5 years with no real signs of damage… I have some Scientific Anglers seldom used lines, like quick sinking and sink-tips that are 15 years old and aren’t cracked. If you use a line in water with a lot of moss in it or salt, then you will need to wash and treat the line with a dressing on a more frequent basis, but be careful what you use… some products have lanolin in them, which will get rancid others are petrochemical based, which will eat into the coating of the lines.  Try and contact the line manufacturer if you’re unsure what may react with the coatings to be sure what you use won’t void your warranty. Larry

Response:

Question:

I’m planning a 9 day flyfishing trip to the northern Calif area and plan to visit areas like  Hat Creek, McCloud, Truckee, Owens, etc. When would be the best time to do this between early August and October? Thanks.

Response:

Skiroc,    Any time after school starts. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning a 9 day flyfishing trip to the northern Calif area and plan to visit areas like  Hat Creek, McCloud, Truckee, Owens, etc. When would be the best time to do this between early August and October? Thanks.

Response:

To minimize backroad travel. I would checkout deer hunting seasons on the places you are going. FWIW, if you are going to fish Hat Creek, and maybe wonder on East and fish Fall River, then I suggest you head on East to Alturas in California’s most Northeast county then go South on 395 to Likely California and go East into the Warner Mountains Wilderness area.  They have a Red Band strain of the McCloud Rainbow that is truly a magnificent fish to catch and release. There are a number of lakes and streams in the area that are an easy hike in with float tube.  Due to the sensitive nature of the habitat of these very special animals, this is all of the info I’ll post but for more info e-mail me. Compared to the hordes of folk at Hat Creek, Truckee and Walker, this area will knock your socks off at the lack of people.  I think Alturas, the county seat of Lompoc county has, uh 3 stoplights?  This beautiful part of the West (NW Nevada, SCentral Oregon NE California) is remote 4×4, tent camping off the road fishing on small high mountain streams and high country lakes. Unlike those other places, when the jokers run out of Powerbait here, there aint no 7/11 nearby! Enjoy! John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m planning a 9 day flyfishing trip to the northern Calif area and plan to visit areas like  Hat Creek, McCloud, Truckee, Owens, etc. When would be the best time to do this between early August and October? Thanks.

Response:

Question:

Two more: 1.  This is not the USenet.  Through the magic of modern technology, people from all over the world can and do post.  Remember this, and try to respect it.  Likely as not, your understanding of French, German, Dutch, whatever is likely not as good as their understanding of English, and in many cases, YOUR English is not as good as their English. 2.  Spell-flame at your own risk.  Yes, we all do it sometimes.  Many drink too much and neither is liable to result in a good feeling. I have found that when I use a "mean" spellflame, I usually spell "cat" with a "k", "moron" with an "e" and spell "spell" with either 1 or 3 "L"s. Picky grammar flames usually come out, "Didt you learn nothing in skool?", but YMMV.  This is not to say a good-natured ribbing re: a humorous tendency to er, lapse is bad, just be careful.  Personally, I don’t like spellcheckers, but again, YMMV. TC, R

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This "guide" is strictly my opinion, and I’m sure comments will be made. As far as I’m concerned, newbies and their appropriate comments are just as welcome as anyone else’s… You are more than welcome on ROFF insofar in that being a "newbie" doesn’t make you unwelcome.  What makes you unwelcome is stepping on your dick as you "walk" in.  I hope this, with additions, serves as a newbie’s guide to ROFF, but it is not a FAQ. <_excellent newbie advise, (and good advise for all posters), snipped Great post; I’m keeping it for future reference.  Here’s a very old newbie usenet lyric.  It’s been around since at least the late 80’s.  Every couple of years I have occasion to post it again.  Enjoy! The Newbie’s Song (Based on the Major General’s song from "The Pirates of Penzance", Gilbert & Sullivan).

Tee Heeeeeeee….yup, purdy damn funny…… TC, R Cheers, and tight lines,

CLINK, thank ya, and back at ya… -Mark

This bring to mind something I forgot.  An addition to my original post: I don’t care WHAT the LookOut Distress manual says, HTML and MIME are not welcome on much of USENET…

Response:

This "guide" is strictly my opinion, and I’m sure comments will be made. As far as I’m concerned, newbies and their appropriate comments are just as welcome as anyone else’s… You are more than welcome on ROFF insofar in that being a "newbie" doesn’t make you unwelcome.  What makes you unwelcome is stepping on your dick as you "walk" in.  I hope this, with additions, serves as a newbie’s guide to ROFF, but it is not a FAQ.

<_excellent newbie advise, (and good advise for all posters), snipped Great post; I’m keeping it for future reference.  Here’s a very old newbie usenet lyric.  It’s been around since at least the late 80’s.  Every couple of years I have occasion to post it again.  Enjoy! The Newbie’s Song (Based on the Major General’s song from "The Pirates of Penzance", Gilbert & Sullivan). I am the very model of a Usenet individual, I’ve information meaningless and ultimately trivial, I know the basic elements of alien biology, And all the hidden secrets of the Church of Scientology, I’ve seen "The Wrath of Khan" and every Star Trek film that followed it, I moan about my Servicecard and how the cash till swallowed it, About the laws on handguns I am sending off a counterblast, With many cheerful facts about the way you can MAKE MONEY FAST! ALL:       With many cheerful facts, etc. I’ll tell you why the Japanese are taking over Panama, And why the USA is still a better place than Canada, In short, in matters meaningless and ultimately trivial, I am the very model of a Usenet individual. ALL:    In short, in matters meaningless and ultimately trivial,           He is the very model of a Usenet individual. I post in alt.revisionism lies about the Holocaust, I cut my .sig to twenty lines, I didn’t want to, I was forced, I really can’t believe the "Good Times" virus to be mythical, And Clinton’s raising taxes which is, frankly, bloody typical, I’ve upset several people on alt.flame, I really don’t know how, And sent a thousand business cards to Mr. and Mrs. Shergold now, I have a very poor grip of political geography, And absolutely no involvement (yet!) in child poronography, ALL:      And absolutely no involement, etc. I’ve paid two-fifty dollars for the Nieman-Marcus recipe, And told the Spanish tourist’s tale about the toothbrush pessary, In short, in matters meaningless and ultimately trivial, I am the very model of a Usenet individual. ALL:    In short, in matters meaningless and ultimately trivial,           He is the very model of a Usenet individual. In fact, when I know what is meant by "binary" and "FTP", When I know how to decode porno JPEGs from a .uue, When I can handle HTML, Telnet, mail and IRC, And when I know the words initialised to form "http", When I have learnt what topics are acceptable in talk.bizarre, When I know more of Usenet than the tailpipe of a motor-car,                - In short, when I’ve a smattering of elementary netiquette, You’ll say a better individual has never surfed the Net. ALL:      You’ll say a better individual, etc. For my technical experience, although I claim to know it all Could barely serve to run the installation disk from AOL; But still, in matters meaningless and ultimately trivial, I am the very model of a Usenet individual. ALL:    But still, in matters meaningless and ultimately trivial,           He is the very model of a Usenet individual. Cheers, and tight lines, -Mark

Response:

To bad this post can’t be the first message anyone gets when they – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This "guide" is strictly my opinion, and I’m sure comments will be made. As far as I’m concerned, newbies and their appropriate comments are just as welcome as anyone else’s… You are more than welcome on ROFF insofar in that being a "newbie" doesn’t make you unwelcome.  What makes you unwelcome is stepping on your dick as you "walk" in.  I hope this, with additions, serves as a newbie’s guide to ROFF, but it is not a FAQ. 1.  Show some level of brain activity: BAD post:  "I live near water.  What do I need?" Good Post: "I live near the xxxxxx River in xxxxxx, xx.  It contains xxxxxxx.  I’d like to spend around xxx.xx.  Any suggestions?"  If you intend on staying awhile, give a short bio, perhaps.  You don’t have to tell the world intimate details, but the basics are nice. 2.  Show a high level of good manners: BP:  "You morons need to just discuss fishing, dammit" (Likely answer: "Piss off, you rude newbie") GP:  "I noticed there seems to be a high level of non-fishing threads. Is this normal?" (Likely answer:  "<G  Yep.  If friends might discuss it while going to fish, fishing, after fishing, or going home from fishing, it will likely get discussed on ROFF.  And it will almost certainly stay that way.") 3.  NEVER be afraid to ask a question, considering the above and below. BP:  "I saw a great pattern for my water in a shop 500 miles away, but I was too cheap to spend 1.00 on it.  It was called a blue or maybe a green something or another.  Can any of you so-called experts tell how to tie it, and NOW, dammit." GP:  "I screwed up.  I saw a pattern that I think would be good on my water, and didn’t buy it.  I fish for xxxxx at xxxxxx, and this fly had, best as I remember, xxxxx body, xxxxx tail, etc.  Does this click with anyone?  Any help appreciated." 4.  This isn’t "the Internet," it is USENET, and, as far as you’re concerned, nobody "runs" it.  Trying to run it by issuing "directives" to ROFFians shows how little you know about it.  Further, while suggestions are generally welcome or at least tolerated, orders, edicts, and commands are generally met with, er, scorn, especially from "WebTV’ers" and unknown "aol’ers." BP:  "You people need to just discuss fly-fishing.  Joe Blow called me a name and I’m reporting him.  What you people need is a moderator, and I am the one you need.  Do it my way, or else." GP:  "I can’t take it, I’m leaving." 5.  If you want to dish it out, be ready to take it, and be careful here.  ROFF is full of smart people with a wide body of knowledge, and you will regret expecting to "win." BP:  "fuk ewe, you stoopid as i knew moore abut fishin whenn i was borned the n youll everr no.  quit tesing me because im a geenis and no it all.  as shakespeer said, i dont wrassel all day on st crispys battlefield, so look out when you mess with me."   GP:  "Your momma wears combat boots…" 6.  Use care with "profanity."  While there are no (well, none identified) swooning maidens with virgin ears who will be shocked, directed profanity will likely not get a good response.  A _suggested_ rule of thumb, if the word "you" is involved, don’t do it… BP:  "Fuck you," "You asshole," "You prick," etc. GP:  "I disagree," "WHAT?!," "You gotta be kidding," A note: I realize this seems to border on "rules", but it just seems to be right.  I can’t explain it, and welcome any comments, but I still offer it as my opinion.  Also, never use the word "retarded" in describing someone or their ideas.  I can promise that will get you enemies you REALLY don’t want.  In fact, I suggest you learn to "set back" any timing adjustments you need to make. 7.  No question, with enough info to answer, and politely asked, is inapproriate. 8.  There are no rules. 9.  Try to use common sense.  We all slip up, but if you have NONE, and can’t rent, borrow, or steal some, ROFF might not be your place. 10.  Yes, it HAS been discussed before, but so what?  There is are sites, Deja News, www.deja.com, amongst others, that archives posts. Sometimes, it may be helpful to turn there first.  This might get you get needed info "right now." 11.  PETA sucks, but if you practice C and R, that will be respected, as long as you respect those who C and E.  IMO, C and K, if all you do is kill, is wrong (unless control is needed for a sound reason), but C and E is just the food chain in action. 12.  The "13th Floor" of ROFF. 13.  IMO, blatant, non-participating SPAMMERS are fair game for what they get, but use care in blasting them, and not offending others. 14.  Dive on in, welcome aboard. HTH? R

Response:

This "guide" is strictly my opinion, and I’m sure comments will be made. As far as I’m concerned, newbies and their appropriate comments are just as welcome as anyone else’s… You are more than welcome on ROFF insofar in that being a "newbie" doesn’t make you unwelcome.  What makes you unwelcome is stepping on your dick as you "walk" in.  I hope this, with additions, serves as a newbie’s guide to ROFF, but it is not a FAQ. 1.  Show some level of brain activity: BAD post:  "I live near water.  What do I need?" Good Post: "I live near the xxxxxx River in xxxxxx, xx.  It contains xxxxxxx.  I’d like to spend around xxx.xx.  Any suggestions?"  If you intend on staying awhile, give a short bio, perhaps.  You don’t have to tell the world intimate details, but the basics are nice. 2.  Show a high level of good manners: BP:  "You morons need to just discuss fishing, dammit" (Likely answer: "Piss off, you rude newbie") GP:  "I noticed there seems to be a high level of non-fishing threads. Is this normal?" (Likely answer:  "<G  Yep.  If friends might discuss it while going to fish, fishing, after fishing, or going home from fishing, it will likely get discussed on ROFF.  And it will almost certainly stay that way.") 3.  NEVER be afraid to ask a question, considering the above and below. BP:  "I saw a great pattern for my water in a shop 500 miles away, but I was too cheap to spend 1.00 on it.  It was called a blue or maybe a green something or another.  Can any of you so-called experts tell how to tie it, and NOW, dammit." GP:  "I screwed up.  I saw a pattern that I think would be good on my water, and didn’t buy it.  I fish for xxxxx at xxxxxx, and this fly had, best as I remember, xxxxx body, xxxxx tail, etc.  Does this click with anyone?  Any help appreciated." 4.  This isn’t "the Internet," it is USENET, and, as far as you’re concerned, nobody "runs" it.  Trying to run it by issuing "directives" to ROFFians shows how little you know about it.  Further, while suggestions are generally welcome or at least tolerated, orders, edicts, and commands are generally met with, er, scorn, especially from "WebTV’ers" and unknown "aol’ers." BP:  "You people need to just discuss fly-fishing.  Joe Blow called me a name and I’m reporting him.  What you people need is a moderator, and I am the one you need.  Do it my way, or else." GP:  "I can’t take it, I’m leaving." 5.  If you want to dish it out, be ready to take it, and be careful here.  ROFF is full of smart people with a wide body of knowledge, and you will regret expecting to "win." BP:  "fuk ewe, you stoopid as i knew moore abut fishin whenn i was borned the n youll everr no.  quit tesing me because im a geenis and no it all.  as shakespeer said, i dont wrassel all day on st crispys battlefield, so look out when you mess with me."   GP:  "Your momma wears combat boots…" 6.  Use care with "profanity."  While there are no (well, none identified) swooning maidens with virgin ears who will be shocked, directed profanity will likely not get a good response.  A _suggested_ rule of thumb, if the word "you" is involved, don’t do it… BP:  "Fuck you," "You asshole," "You prick," etc. GP:  "I disagree," "WHAT?!," "You gotta be kidding," A note: I realize this seems to border on "rules", but it just seems to be right.  I can’t explain it, and welcome any comments, but I still offer it as my opinion.  Also, never use the word "retarded" in describing someone or their ideas.  I can promise that will get you enemies you REALLY don’t want.  In fact, I suggest you learn to "set back" any timing adjustments you need to make. 7.  No question, with enough info to answer, and politely asked, is inapproriate. 8.  There are no rules. 9.  Try to use common sense.  We all slip up, but if you have NONE, and can’t rent, borrow, or steal some, ROFF might not be your place. 10.  Yes, it HAS been discussed before, but so what?  There is are sites, Deja News, www.deja.com, amongst others, that archives posts. Sometimes, it may be helpful to turn there first.  This might get you get needed info "right now." 11.  PETA sucks, but if you practice C and R, that will be respected, as long as you respect those who C and E.  IMO, C and K, if all you do is kill, is wrong (unless control is needed for a sound reason), but C and E is just the food chain in action. 12.  The "13th Floor" of ROFF. 13.  IMO, blatant, non-participating SPAMMERS are fair game for what they get, but use care in blasting them, and not offending others. 14.  Dive on in, welcome aboard. HTH? R

Response:

Question:

Sink tips as well as full sinking lines come in a variety of sink rates.  If your not getting down as deep as you like, you might just need a higher density line. The experts I have read say that the advantage of a full sinking line, is that it  stays in the strike zone longer.  This is because the sink tips are hanging down at an angle, so that the fly is being pulled up. Some times this can be an advantage though.  My fishing buddy has done great on a sink tip with a carry special and a chironomid trailer. — Terry Robinson Visit me at http://home.earthlink.net/~flyfisher23/  Terry’s Fishing and Writing place

Response:

Kind of depends on whether you are fishing moving or still water. With a fast sink tip in moving water, the ‘angle’ is not a factor. All of the sinking portion is under, along with butt, leader and tippet (6′ to 8′), and streamer ( I don’t ever nymph with a sinktip!). Not much (at most 10 or 20 feet) of your running line (that would be the non-sinking portion of the fly line for those ‘equipment-ally challenged’ out there) would even be off the reel, allowing pretty good control over the mending and stripping that would be taking place. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sink tips as well as full sinking lines come in a variety of sink rates.  If your not getting down as deep as you like, you might just need a higher density line. The experts I have read say that the advantage of a full sinking line, is that it  stays in the strike zone longer.  This is because the sink tips are hanging down at an angle, so that the fly is being pulled up. Some times this can be an advantage though.  My fishing buddy has done great on a sink tip with a carry special and a chironomid trailer.

Response:

Hi Claude, I don’t like sinking tip as you have a curve in the line and you can’t really feel what happen around the fly. 6 to 10 feet in average?  With a floating line, an intermediate and a number 3 (or 2) sinking line, you are set for most of the conditions. Philippe http://fishing.ifrance.com * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

This year I want to try fishing a little bit deeper. hoping to get the big trout if the dry flies don’t work… I had all kinds of different answers so I hope the experience fly of this group can help. some said a sinking tip will be enough other full sinking  line???? Fishing on a small lac, deepest in the middle 20 feet. average 6 to 10 feet. If I stay on the same spot and fish from shore to middle I have used the sinking tip and look ok but never seems to go very deep or deep enough to get the big old trout ? I know for sure there are some big one, a diver saw a couple very nice rainbow…at the bottom. if trolling slowly, does the full sinking line will be to heavy or ok? I plan to use it on a 5wg rod. Thanks in advance for all your help Claude

Response:

The faster you troll, the shallower your line will stay due to the friction/planing of the line. A full sinking line should be fine at those depths if you troll slowly. You might even wish to use a very dense loop on sinktip extender (mini sink tip) in addition to your sinking line. Good luck rtw if trolling slowly, does the full sinking line will be to heavy or ok? I plan to use it on a 5wg rod. Thanks in advance for all your help Claude

– Remove "zzz" from address if emailing direct.

Response:

Question:

This is mutating the topic somewhat, but here goes: I like the "Trilene knot" quite a bit.  It retains much of the original line strength and is just as easy to tie as a regular clinch knot.  The name irritates me, however.  Can a line company truly lay claim to a knot?  Must we make an advertisement for somebody every time we teach someone this knot?  Is it known by any other name? Pete C

Response:

If you’d be satisfied with a guess, the name could have originated simply because it was a knot initially devised by a surgeon in a fishing club: "Hey, where’d you learn that knot?"   "It’s the surgeon’s knot."

I do hope that this isn’t the case! My researches would really go down the plug hole, were it so. The mind boggles at the possibilities: the ‘bond traders’ hitch for tying up your mule; the ‘gynaecologists twist’ for wire shock tippets; the ‘lawyers loop’ (not safe; too slippery!) ….. the possibilities are endless. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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<all the good stuff snipped (this is going to get confusing).

Funny thing about knots; while I’ve never had any trouble tying them, talking about them has always made my head spin.  Reading back through this thread I find myself getting a bit dizzy. TL!

Response:

Tony; After giving the matter some more thought I believe I can clear up how, if not when, the knot we use to tie on tippet became known as the "surgeon’s knot".

<rest snipped and neatly tied off with a surgeon’s knot… Your description is right Wolfgang.  As a Vascular and Thoracic surgeon, I think I can speak with some knowledge on such things  Basically, a surgeon’s knot is a reef knot, usually tied with one hand against the held-out strand of the other end of the ‘thread’.  The double-throw variant is also used for extra security when needed. By that, I mean TWICE round instead of once per layer as in the simple reef knot.   Usually, the reef knot is extended by several more ‘throws’ however – it is not common to use just the two throws, or layers.  Many surgical suture materials are monofilament and slippery, to aid in passing through tissues without cutting through, so they tend to slip when knotted, therefore most surgeons would tie at least 5 throws in these materials, with perhaps 3 in braided materials that slip less. There are obviously numerous variations also, such as deliberately tying a ‘granny’ knot – both throws in the same direction rather than opposite directions – so that the knot can be ’snugged’ down while still having some friction, then finishing off with a throw in the opposite direction to lock the knot. The "Surgeon’s Knot" as described in the fishing books is nothing like a ‘real’ surgeon’s knot.  I don’t know how it got its name. — Pete, Brisbane, Australia To reply by email, remove the "SPAMLESS" from the address in the header.

Response:

I’m doing some research into knots. Can anyone give me early (the earliest!) references to the ’surgeons knot’ (preferably with an unequivocal diagram or detailed description of the tying procedure) as it is currently understood by anglers. In Britain, this knot is also known as the ‘water knot’ and may well be the same as the ‘water knot’ mentioned in the famous ‘Treatise of Fishing with an Angle’, which appeared in the Second Book of St Albans -attributed to Juliana Berners and printed by Wynken de Worde in 1496. Unfortunately, despite reference in the text of the Treatise to an illustration of the knot, this was in fact omitted. My difficulty is that the modern appellation of this knot as the ’surgeons knot’ seems to be relatively modern. Practising surgeons (non-anglers) stare at you blankly when you show them this knot. The great American authority on knots, the late Prof. Cyrus Lawrence Day, shows a completely different knot in his ‘The Art of Knotting and Splicing’. The surgeon’s knot Day shows looks more akin to a ‘reef knot’ (’square knot’), except that there are two turns of the strands on the top and bottom edges of the knot (when viewed as normally tied). At present, I am inclined to think that ’surgeon’s knot’ (for what the term is currently, popularly, understood to mean) is a relatively modern appropriation (misappropriation) of the name. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ordinarily, a square knot is tied by making an overhand knot and then following it with another, making sure that the second is opposed to the first; left over right and then right over left (repeating left over right or right over left twice will result in a granny knot, notorious for slipping).  In making sutures, the suture material is wound once or twice around the needle holder which is then used to grasp the tag end and pull it through the loop.  When the material is wound twice around the needle holder the result is still an overhand knot; the ends merely twist around each other twice rather than the usual once.  In order to finish the square knot a surgeon repeats the process being careful to wind the material in the opposite direction from the first time.

Very interesting Wolfgang. What you have described is exactly the ’surgeon’s knot’, as described by Cyrus Day, as I cited in my original post. That’s good for me, because it supports the current use of the name for that particular knot (i.e., a ’square knot’ with two twists along each edge). Your earlier post, re. the ‘water knot’ you have used in climbing and the method of its construction is exactly that described by Day in his book. I suspect that the single overhand ‘water knot’ was adequate as an angler’s knot in the days of horsehair. The two, three and four turn versions were clearly developed to produce a safe knot when using the slippery synthetic line materials that came along later. Going back to the ’surgeon’s knot’, you mentioned the ‘granny knot’ as being unsafe cf. the ’square knot’ (which in Britain we more usually call the ‘reef knot’). In the 1991 edition of ‘Practical Fishing Knots’, by Sosin and Kreh, the authors describe what they call the ’simple blood knot’. This is nothing like a normal ‘blood knot’, but is slightly similar to the real ’surgeons knot’ as you described (this is going to get confusing). The big difference is that it is in fact a ‘granny knot’, but with seven twists along the two parallel edges of the box. It looks odd, but Sosin and Kreh claim nearly 100% knot efficiency for it. Thanks for the posts: interesting, but doesn’t really get me closer to tracking down when the two turn ‘water knot’ started being called the ’surgeons knot’. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

I’m doing some research into knots. Can anyone give me early (the earliest!) references to the ’surgeons knot’ (preferably with an unequivocal diagram or detailed description of the tying procedure) as it is currently understood by anglers.

If you’d be satisfied with a guess, the name could have originated simply because it was a knot initially devised by a surgeon in a fishing club: "Hey, where’d you learn that knot?"   "It’s the surgeon’s knot."   Even in that context, it could still have origins in medical usage while not necessarily keeping its surgical configuration.   If you get a real answer, please share it. Joe F.

Response:

Hi Tony :   The Surgeon’s knot is the ones described by the other people in their replies, as a double and then a stacked set of two single throws that is used to close an incision. The knot that we use to tie on leaders etc. that we call a surgeon’s knot is also used to join Rib Stitch cord that is used to hold the cloth covering onto an airplane wing when the stitcher has misjudged the length and needs a bit more to finish the rib correctly.   Just thought that you might find it of interest.    Jim Rahn    Guelph, Ontario,    Canada – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m doing some research into knots. Can anyone give me early (the earliest!) references to the ’surgeons knot’ (preferably with an unequivocal diagram or detailed description of the tying procedure) as it is currently understood by anglers. In Britain, this knot is also known as the ‘water knot’ and may well be the same as the ‘water knot’ mentioned in the famous ‘Treatise of Fishing with an Angle’, which appeared in the Second Book of St Albans -attributed to Juliana Berners and printed by Wynken de Worde in 1496. Unfortunately, despite reference in the text of the Treatise to an illustration of the knot, this was in fact omitted. My difficulty is that the modern appellation of this knot as the ’surgeons knot’ seems to be relatively modern. Practising surgeons (non-anglers) stare at you blankly when you show them this knot. The great American authority on knots, the late Prof. Cyrus Lawrence Day, shows a completely different knot in his ‘The Art of Knotting and Splicing’. The surgeon’s knot Day shows looks more akin to a ‘reef knot’ (’square knot’), except that there are two turns of the strands on the top and bottom edges of the knot (when viewed as normally tied). At present, I am inclined to think that ’surgeon’s knot’ (for what the term is currently, popularly, understood to mean) is a relatively modern appropriation (misappropriation) of the name. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Response:

Tony; After giving the matter some more thought I believe I can clear up how, if not when, the knot we use to tie on tippet became known as the "surgeon’s knot". In addition to climbing rock and replacing more tippet than I care to think about, I have also done some surgical procedures on rats, and a great deal of woodworking. As a result of the woodworking I have had sutures put into every one of my fingers at one time or another. Having watched the procedure so often I know that the knots surgeons use are the same as the ones I use on rats; they are in fact simple square knots.  A square knot is, or course, simply two stacked overhand knots.  Ordinarily, a square knot is tied by making an overhand knot and then following it with another, making sure that the second is opposed to the first; left over right and then right over left (repeating left over right or right over left twice will result in a granny knot, notorious for slipping).  In making sutures, the suture material is wound once or twice around the needle holder which is then used to grasp the tag end and pull it through the loop.  When the material is wound twice around the needle holder the result is still an overhand knot; the ends merely twist around each other twice rather than the usual once.  In order to finish the square knot a surgeon repeats the process being careful to wind the material in the opposite direction from the first time. When two (or possibly even more) turns are taken around the needle holder before drawing tight it is exactly the same procedure as we perform in tying on tippet material.  The only real difference is that the surgeon performs this procedure on a single strand as opposed to the two that we use in making the "surgeon’s knot."  A casual observer would easily be fooled into thinking that the fisherman and the surgeon are doing exactly the same thing.  The error is almost certainly compounded by the fact that many of us use a hemostat to help tie our knot in the stream.  Not only is the process the same, we even use the same (to the untrained eye) tool. Sound plausible?

Response:

Wolfgang, Your description of how to tie the knot during surgery is correct. The surgeon’s knot is a knot that uses a self-retaining frictional hitch for the first throw. The two wraps in the first throw create more friction between the strands so that tissue layers that want to pull apart are held in apposition while the second throw is placed. A variant on this theme is to do three wraps on the first throw if there is a lot of tension between the tissue edges. However, the subsequent wrap is then two throws instead of one so the knot will not be too assymetric (which creates problems with knot security). The surgeon’s knot is only used when there is sufficient tension to pull the edges you are trying to appose apart while you are doing the second throw, otherwise suturing is done with a square knot (there are some caveats to this generality). I suspect that the flyfishing surgeon’s knot was given that name because it visually resembles the surgeon’s knot used for suturing (even though its structure is totally different). My guess is that it was named by someone with some familiarity with it in the medical context. However, I would be surprised if it was a surgeon since it is a different knot and surgeons are somewhat picky about naming knots and suture patterns. Cheers. Jon McAnulty

Response:

<snip In Britain, this knot is also known as the ‘water knot’ and may well be the same as the ‘water knot’ mentioned in the famous ‘Treatise of Fishing with an Angle’, which appeared in the Second Book of St Albans -attributed to Juliana Berners and printed by Wynken de Worde in 1496. Unfortunately, despite reference in the text of the Treatise to an illustration of the knot, this was in fact omitted.

<snip I’m not sure I can help you on this one Tony; in fact, I may muddy the waters a bit more.  I’ve done a bit of rock climbing over the years and used what climbers refer to as a water knot to form loops in webbing or to join two pieces of webbing together (webbing is tubular woven nylon which has been pressed flat).  The climber’s water knot starts with a simple overhand knot tied near the end of a piece of webbing.  To make a loop, the other end is pushed back through the overhand knot following (in reverse) the path of the original end. Tying two pieces of webbing together is done in exactly the same fashion.  The only difference is that one uses the ends of two pieces rather than both ends of one piece.  The effect is essentially the same as the fisherman’s ’surgeon’s knot’ except that there is only one turn as opposed to the three or four used in the surgeon’s knot.  So, at bottom, the only real difference between the two knots is the number of turns taken, unless one thinks that the method of tying is significant.  The water knot used by climbers is the same as the surgeon’s knot used by fishermen.  Of course, I don’t know whether the climber’s water knot is the same as the one you made reference to. Hope this helps. TL.

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Question:

Just finished watching a piece on Fashion TV, CITY-TV, Toronto where they interviewed Karen Graham.  The former Vogue model was sought out by Estee Lauder, lured away from her fly fishing school and brought in to promote stuff for older women.  She’s going to have a TV ad running soon as well. And boy,  she can double-haul me any day.  ( No honey, I’m not serious. . . . stop looking over my shoulder . . . yes I love that rod you bought me, . . .  stop whacking me with it. . . .) Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html

Response:

I just saw a piece about Karen Graham on Oprah recently… very interesting.  Besides being very beautiful, she was charming and down to earth as well.  And most importantly, she casts beautifully. ;^) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just finished watching a piece on Fashion TV, CITY-TV, Toronto where they interviewed Karen Graham.  The former Vogue model was sought out by Estee Lauder, lured away from her fly fishing school and brought in to promote stuff for older women.  She’s going to have a TV ad running soon as well. And boy,  she can double-haul me any day.  ( No honey, I’m not serious. . . . stop looking over my shoulder . . . yes I love that rod you bought me, . . .  stop whacking me with it. . . .) Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.cgocable.net/~pcharles/index.html

Response:

Question:

Hi, I maybe heading to the Lower Deschutes during the third week in May.  Does anyone know what I can expect as to the fishing that time of year ?  What hatches, river levels etc.,  What weight rod would be the best ?  Any recommendations to local advice/fly shops. Thanks in advance.

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Hi, I maybe heading to the Lower Deschutes during the third week in May.  Does anyone know what I can expect as to the fishing that time of year ?  What hatches, river levels etc.,  What weight rod would be the best ?  Any recommendations to local advice/fly shops. Thanks in advance.

WIth snow levels this year, I think you can probably expect high water; snow pack is about double a normal year. A 9 foot, five weight rod with a floating line will work for most situations you’ll encounter on the Deschutes. Deep nymphing is the most consistently successful method on the lower river. The salmonfly hatch should be getting started, as well as the golden stoneflies. BIG, heavily weighted stonefly nymphs in black and gold. Black and golden stimulators for the adults. Caddis: Rhyacophilia, hydropsyche, Glossoma, Brachycentra: larvae, pupae, and adults. Mayflies: Baetis, Heptagenia, maybe some early PMDs. Midges. Local shops: The Deschutes Canyon fly shop in Maupin, The Fly Fishing Shop in Welches.

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Question:

Ok, this is really *our* impression of Cancun.  I am not trying to provoke any major responses to this, as it is just an opinion from our recent trip there. First of all I did actually like the beaches on/near the Omni Cancun hotel. The beaches were very nice, sand very white and soft and not hot. The water is absolutely beautiful with vivid colors of light-dark blue. Beautiful! If you are a serious beach bum you will love this aspect of Cancun.  I hear that you really need to check out the property you are interested in because some of the beaches have been washed out from past storms and the brochures do not mention that tiny fact.  Most are ok though. The second nice thing is that the bus system is GREAT.  Only 3 pesos (about 20 cents).  The buses run 24 hours a day and every 4-5 minutes.  Easy to use, and much cheaper than cabs which run a minimum of 30 pesos (3$). Now the things I didn’t like: The shop keepers at the various flea markets have very very few bargain items.  Most of the items we were interested in were expensive and the shop keepers really really tried to make you feel bad for being a "wealthy" American who "gets vacations". All in all I can get REAL bargains in Nuevo Larado (Texas/Mexico border city).  If you have LOTS of money and don’t mind turning loose of it then you might feel differently than I/we did. In general the city and resort area had a bad "smell" most places we went. There was an occasional stench that smelled like sewar water or something to that effect. This was noticed most everywhere and we weren’t really sure where it was coming from.  On those lines, when you’re traveling down a street, if you look closely you’ll notice off to the side of the roads there appears to be garbage, rubbish and various other "trash" items that are usually behind shrubs, etc… It’s as if they decided to build a road and "scraped" all the surrounding rubbish off to the side of the road and tried to hide it with shrubs. Expensive, expensive, expensive.  There are no places you can go to have fun or eat or drink without paying a premium price.  And if your hotel or club offers "happy hours" it is for them not for you.  Happy hours at our hotel and some bars are no value.  Our drinks had very little liquor in them and the prices were still high even for watered down drinks.  The only exception is beer, they haven’t found a way to water that down (I think). We also paid $10. (USD) to get into a popular disco/dance club called Christine’s.  It was nice but the drinks were expensive and small and the bar was nice but not as nice as many of our US bars.  Personally I wouldn’t recommend it for the cover alone. Last but not least is all the begging that goes on there.  The vendors are so aggressive that you can’t do or go anywhere without feeling like you’re being accosted.  Small children are just as bad as the grown up folks except a lot (not all) of the vendors will try to intimidate you into buying and if you offer them a price they act insulted and when you leave their shop they start insulting you (Coral Negro flea market). This goes on pretty much everywhere and after the first day it’s all one can do just to go somewhere without being accosted over and over. PS: We are from Texas (good mexican food) and in our opinion we did not like any of the "mexican" food there.  We ate at Senor Frogs as well and the meal was just "so-so".  All of the restaurants did not have spicy mexican food and it was pretty much bland.  I cannot recommend any place except Pat O’ Brians (Great nachos and bbq sandwich). If anyone wants further info please feel free to email me directly at:

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ok, this is really *our* impression of Cancun.  I am not trying to provoke any major responses to this, as it is just an opinion from our recent trip there. First of all I did actually like the beaches on/near the Omni Cancun hotel. The beaches were very nice, sand very white and soft and not hot. The water is absolutely beautiful with vivid colors of light-dark blue. Beautiful! If you are a serious beach bum you will love this aspect of Cancun.  I hear that you really need to check out the property you are interested in because some of the beaches have been washed out from past storms and the brochures do not mention that tiny fact.  Most are ok though. The second nice thing is that the bus system is GREAT.  Only 3 pesos (about 20 cents).  The buses run 24 hours a day and every 4-5 minutes.  Easy to use, and much cheaper than cabs which run a minimum of 30 pesos (3$). Now the things I didn’t like: The shop keepers at the various flea markets have very very few bargain items.  Most of the items we were interested in were expensive and the shop keepers really really tried to make you feel bad for being a "wealthy" American who "gets vacations". All in all I can get REAL bargains in Nuevo Larado (Texas/Mexico border city).  If you have LOTS of money and don’t mind turning loose of it then you might feel differently than I/we did. In general the city and resort area had a bad "smell" most places we went. There was an occasional stench that smelled like sewar water or something to that effect. This was noticed most everywhere and we weren’t really sure where it was coming from.  On those lines, when you’re traveling down a street, if you look closely you’ll notice off to the side of the roads there appears to be garbage, rubbish and various other "trash" items that are usually behind shrubs, etc… It’s as if they decided to build a road and "scraped" all the surrounding rubbish off to the side of the road and tried to hide it with shrubs. Expensive, expensive, expensive.  There are no places you can go to have fun or eat or drink without paying a premium price.  And if your hotel or club offers "happy hours" it is for them not for you.  Happy hours at our hotel and some bars are no value.  Our drinks had very little liquor in them and the prices were still high even for watered down drinks.  The only exception is beer, they haven’t found a way to water that down (I think). We also paid $10. (USD) to get into a popular disco/dance club called Christine’s.  It was nice but the drinks were expensive and small and the bar was nice but not as nice as many of our US bars.  Personally I wouldn’t recommend it for the cover alone. Last but not least is all the begging that goes on there.  The vendors are so aggressive that you can’t do or go anywhere without feeling like you’re being accosted.  Small children are just as bad as the grown up folks except a lot (not all) of the vendors will try to intimidate you into buying and if you offer them a price they act insulted and when you leave their shop they start insulting you (Coral Negro flea market). This goes on pretty much everywhere and after the first day it’s all one can do just to go somewhere without being accosted over and over. PS: We are from Texas (good mexican food) and in our opinion we did not like any of the "mexican" food there.  We ate at Senor Frogs as well and the meal was just "so-so".  All of the restaurants did not have spicy mexican food and it was pretty much bland.  I cannot recommend any place except Pat O’ Brians (Great nachos and bbq sandwich). If anyone wants further info please feel free to email me directly at:

I got the same impression last time we were there in ‘92.  The only thing I would have to add was the time share terrorists.  We would be walking along enjoying the warm breeze when out of nowhere some guy would come flying out of a moving vehicle and they wouldn’t leave you alone.  Finally we said we were leaving that afternoon and they would give up.  We were there in 1983 and loved it, so we were extremely disappointed when we went back and that will be our last trip to Cancun.  We ventured a little further south to Playa del Carmen and loved it there.  My fear now to go back is that the same thing is happening there as happened in Cancun. Just my 2 cents. Diane

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– thanks to spam bots, my address is despammed, if you are a real person, you should be able to figure it out. This part of the post I can’t let go.  I am also from Texas originally and what you are used to is NOT mexican food.  It is Tex-Mex.  You can not compare mexican food to what you are used to. Mexican food is not spicy. Mexican food rarely contains beef, the land doesn’t support beef well. Chicken, fish, and goats are the mainstay and it varys by the region.  By the way, I like both Tex-mex and mexican food.  I can’t say anything about the food in cancun as I have not been there, but don’t base your comparisons to your local cuisine, its comparing apples and oranges.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – PS: We are from Texas (good mexican food) and in our opinion we did not like any of the "mexican" food there.  We ate at Senor Frogs as well and the meal was just "so-so".  All of the restaurants did not have spicy mexican food and it was pretty much bland.  I cannot recommend any place except Pat O’ Brians (Great nachos and bbq sandwich). If anyone wants further info please feel free to email me directly at:

Response:

Don, Being a native Texan I also know the difference between Mexican food and Tex-Mex food.  I never meant to imply they were one in the same HOWEVER there is a difference in what I expected.  I expected Mexican food (I was in Mexico) with a Yucatan flair… things wrapped/cooked in banana leaves, pescado (fish) dishes, etc…  The food we ate down in Cancun were typically recommended highly by the various hotels and some guidebooks but they always turned out to be bad Mexican food without any particular nuance of the region they were supposed to represent (Yucatan).  My comments about spicy wasn’t meaning HOT, I just meant that I preferred my food with some form of taste to it.  The food from Cancun (for the mostpart) was tasteless and appeared to be a poor copy of Tex-Mex (or that’s the way it looked to us). PS: I’ve already received several direct emails agreeing with me so I know that I’m not crazy M. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — thanks to spam bots, my address is despammed, if you are a real person, you should be able to figure it out. This part of the post I can’t let go.  I am also from Texas originally and what you are used to is NOT mexican food.  It is Tex-Mex.  You can not compare mexican food to what you are used to. Mexican food is not spicy. Mexican food rarely contains beef, the land doesn’t support beef well. Chicken, fish, and goats are the mainstay and it varys by the region.  By the way, I like both Tex-mex and mexican food.  I can’t say anything about the food in cancun as I have not been there, but don’t base your comparisons to your local cuisine, its comparing apples and oranges. PS: We are from Texas (good mexican food) and in our opinion we did not like any of the "mexican" food there.  We ate at Senor Frogs as well and the meal was just "so-so".  All of the restaurants did not have spicy mexican food and it was pretty much bland.  I cannot recommend any place except Pat O’ Brians (Great nachos and bbq sandwich). If anyone wants further info please feel free to email me directly at:

Response:

sorry you feel that way. i’m heading back for my 8th trip end of Jan. i go mostly for the first part of your trip. and because i Love the hotel i stay at (Fiesta American Coral Beach) since it is a mega resort you have to do some searching to find good value. and yes there are some Yucatan restaurants, but mostly it is tex-mex. tim

Response:

I’ve been to Cancun twice. I enjoyed both of my visits. I stayed at the Blue Bay Club and Marina, which is an all-inclusive hotel. Personally, I prefer all-inclusive hotels because you don’t have to carry cash when you’re at the hotel and you can eat and drink as much as you want without worrying about the bill! Also, the food at the hotel was great. They had Mexican options at every meal! The different salsas were fabulous! The hotel staff was friendly and always entertaining. The hotel also had a bus that would take us into town at night to the discos. The discos were pricey but not over the top. I agree that the flea markets were outrageous! I couldn’t take more that 5 minutes they were so rude! I don’t mind bargaining but when they start yelling at you or chasing you, that’s when I draw the line. Luckily, the hotel had theme night and one of which was Mexican. Kiosks were set up and local wares were sold in the main lobby at very reasonable prices. I really had a great time in Cancun and would probably go back. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – sorry you feel that way. i’m heading back for my 8th trip end of Jan. i go mostly for the first part of your trip. and because i Love the hotel i stay at (Fiesta American Coral Beach) since it is a mega resort you have to do some searching to find good value. and yes there are some Yucatan restaurants, but mostly it is tex-mex. tim

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Don, Being a native Texan I also know the difference between Mexican food and Tex-Mex food.  I never meant to imply they were one in the same HOWEVER there is a difference in what I expected.  I expected Mexican food (I was in Mexico) with a Yucatan flair… things wrapped/cooked in banana leaves, pescado (fish) dishes, etc…  <snip I am also from Texas originally and what you are used to is NOT mexican food.  It is Tex-Mex.   PS: We are from Texas (good mexican food) and in our opinion we did not like any of the "mexican" food there.  We ate at Senor Frogs as well and the meal was just "so-so".  All of the restaurants did not have spicy mexican food and it was pretty much bland.  I cannot recommend any place except Pat O’ Brians (Great nachos and bbq sandwich).

I think you’re both missing an important point: Cancun may be in Mexico, but there is no Mexico in Cancun.  It is a Disneyfied version of what the Mexican tourist board thinks tourists want; obviously, they thought correctly.  If Cancun is the only place you’ve ever visited, you have not seen Mexico.  I’ve had to fly to/from there to get to other destinations, and had never had the "opportunity" to spend the night until this past summer (because of an early a.m. flight); I was with a teenaged cousin who had been a good sport about eating real Mexican–after years of Taco Bell–at our other destinations, so let him choose where he wanted to eat dinner in Cancun.  Yeesh, Planet Hollywood…I was truly appalled, during the cab ride, at how built up the island was. Another post-er mentioned nearby Playa del Carmen as a less-touristy destination, but unfortunately, it’s not the sleepy fishing village it was on my first visit, not so long ago.  Still, better than Cancun

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Question:

I’ve heard Montauk State Park is located on the headwaters of the Current River and has access to trout flyfishing area.  Looking for more info from someone who knows this area.  I’m thinking of going there in May. Regards to all, Robert

Response:

Try: http://www.agron.missouri.edu/flyfishing/ John Nesselrode Shawnee, KS

Response:

You’re right. Montauk is the head of the current river, and offers considerable amount of trout water. But it’s going to be fairly crowded, even on the stretch of flies-only water. –

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I’ve heard Montauk State Park is located on the headwaters of the Current River and has access to trout flyfishing area.  Looking for more info from someone who knows this area.  I’m thinking of going there in May. Regards to all, Robert

Go! The fishing in the park is mostly corn etc, yet there are some sections for flies only. Good if you want to go fishmarket fishing. Nice place. Great place for kids. The park has a couple of places for catch and release fishing, a small stream and a lake. Current river itself is beautiful. There are a couple of access points just downstream of the park. (get a map and a sturdy vehicle) "Baptist Camp" is the one I usually go to and fish up and down stream. I have had some great days upstream under the canopy of trees. Generally it’s best to find a guide and float the river (canoe) if you want to get the most out of it due to somewhat limited access due to purposeful design. The canoe is used mainly for transportation to wade spots, although I have caught a few from the boat. I have never caught any really large fish on the Current, but normally catch quite a few in the 14 to 25 category. I used a guy by the name of Tom Shipley. Don’t know his wherebouts these days. Maybe you will get some names on this posting. Kevin Williams

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