Question:

That’s right you stupid, inbred,

Get a life. — Andrea

Response:

Welcome to ROFF. You’ll fit right in. Have you met George? Of course you have being God and all that…

Response:

I’m afraid Adam is wrong!  Ken Fortenberry is my GOD! Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s right you stupid, inbred, Get a life. — Andrea

Response:

Oooh! Another troll-b-q! First, a minute’s silence. And I think the food should be truly international this time around. One Vegetarian Malaysian curry which has 1 can of Malaysian Curry sauce Boiled potatoe cubes which you cook in the sauce then add just before serving: chopped tomatoes chopped cucumber chopped banana On a bed of steaming Jasmine rice. Yummy (and very easy) Yowie — RPCA e-list: catslaves-subscribe (at) yahoogroups (dot) com RPCA FAQ: http://www.angelfire.com/mt/yowie/catfaq.htm

Response:

I have some celery  I’ll toss that in… hey !  You know that old story about stone soup?  Let’s make troll soup this time.. please can we please please????

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oooh! Another troll-b-q! First, a minute’s silence. And I think the food should be truly international this time around. One Vegetarian Malaysian curry which has 1 can of Malaysian Curry sauce Boiled potatoe cubes which you cook in the sauce then add just before serving: chopped tomatoes chopped cucumber chopped banana On a bed of steaming Jasmine rice. Yummy (and very easy)

Oh, vegetarian food. Great! I was planning to make a mushroom sauce today. It goes well with both veggies and with meat. And fish. <shudder It is mushroom season here in Finland. — Marina

Response:

Oooh! Another troll-b-q!

You slaves shouldn’t have all the fun. I would like to bring, on behalf of all of us furry masters, a little dish of my own. Three Blind Mice Stir Fry 3  mice (they don’t have to be blind, it’s just the name of the recipe) 1  red onion cut 1  red and green bell pepper 1  cup of catnip dressing (email me for the recipe) 3 tbs. of vegetable oil (mice cakes optional) Dusty (the Flab-u-lous One)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oooh! Another troll-b-q! You slaves shouldn’t have all the fun. I would like to bring, on behalf of all of us furry masters, a little dish of my own. Three Blind Mice Stir Fry 3  mice (they don’t have to be blind, it’s just the name of the recipe) 1  red onion cut 1  red and green bell pepper 1  cup of catnip dressing (email me for the recipe) 3 tbs. of vegetable oil (mice cakes optional) Dusty (the Flab-u-lous One)

Dear Dusty: Cats should not eat onions.  Please ask your mom to revise her recipe.  :-)

Response:

Oooh! Another troll-b-q!

I went to an Indian restaurant last night, and had an unusual and very delicious appetizer. It was a salad consisting of: (equal parts) Diced cooked potatoes Diced raw cucumber Diced bananas Diced peaches Diced apples Diced mangoes Dressed with a sweet-and-sour salad dressing, salt and pepper, and a pinch of cayenne to add a bit of spice. It was yummy.

Response:

\Welcome to ROFF. You’ll fit right in.\ hahahahahhahahahaha. Thanks for the much needed laugh. -Muskie

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – message Oooh! Another troll-b-q! You slaves shouldn’t have all the fun. I would like to bring, on behalf of all of us furry masters, a little dish of my own. Three Blind Mice Stir Fry 3  mice (they don’t have to be blind, it’s just the name of the recipe) 1  red onion cut 1  red and green bell pepper 1  cup of catnip dressing (email me for the recipe) 3 tbs. of vegetable oil (mice cakes optional) Dusty (the Flab-u-lous One) Dear Dusty: Cats should not eat onions.  Please ask your mom to revise her recipe.

Okay, I know but I really like red onions.  Can I substitute rubber bands for them?  Please tell me I don’t have to resort to tofu!!!  I don’t like tofu. Dusty

Response:

Dear Dusty: Cats should not eat onions.  Please ask your mom to revise her recipe. Okay, I know but I really like red onions.  Can I substitute rubber bands for them?  Please tell me I don’t have to resort to tofu!!!  I don’t like tofu. Dusty

Dear Dusty: Maybe you could ask your mom to get you some calamari rings – if you cook them long enough they are just like rubber bands, but easier to digest.  :-)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oooh! Another troll-b-q! I went to an Indian restaurant last night, and had an unusual and very delicious appetizer. It was a salad consisting of: (equal parts) Diced cooked potatoes Diced raw cucumber Diced bananas Diced peaches Diced apples Diced mangoes Dressed with a sweet-and-sour salad dressing, salt and pepper, and a pinch of cayenne to add a bit of spice. It was yummy.

That DOES sound good. When you say sweet and sour dressing, does that taste like the standard Seczhaun (sp?) sweet and sour or something else? Karen

Response:

I have some celery  I’ll toss that in… hey !  You know that old story about stone soup?  Let’s make troll soup this time.. please can we please please????

Stoned troll soup! I’ll put in some soup bones to give it flavor and some zucchini to mellow the nastiness of the troll. And after all the veggies have been added, I like to throw in a handful of brown rice and finish off with a few noodles. Sprinkle with fresh parsley and Parmesan and serve with garlic toast. Yummm. CATherine

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – message Oooh! Another troll-b-q! You slaves shouldn’t have all the fun. I would like to bring, on behalf of all of us furry masters, a little dish of my own. Three Blind Mice Stir Fry 3  mice (they don’t have to be blind, it’s just the name of the recipe) 1  red onion cut 1  red and green bell pepper 1  cup of catnip dressing (email me for the recipe) 3 tbs. of vegetable oil (mice cakes optional) Dusty (the Flab-u-lous One) Dear Dusty: Cats should not eat onions.  Please ask your mom to revise her recipe. Okay, I know but I really like red onions.  Can I substitute rubber bands for them?  Please tell me I don’t have to resort to tofu!!!  I don’t like tofu.

Jellyfish is a good substitute for rubber bands.  Or at least that’s what I thought when I had it in a restaurant once.  

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I went to an Indian restaurant last night, and had an unusual and very delicious appetizer. It was a salad consisting of: (equal parts) Diced cooked potatoes Diced raw cucumber Diced bananas Diced peaches Diced apples Diced mangoes Dressed with a sweet-and-sour salad dressing, salt and pepper, and a pinch of cayenne to add a bit of spice. It was yummy. That DOES sound good. When you say sweet and sour dressing, does that taste like the standard Seczhaun (sp?) sweet and sour or something else?

If I had to guess, I’d say the dressing was made with sweetened rice vinegar and oil, with just a touch of a citrus juice, lemon or lime.  Hard to say for sure though.  It definitely had a vinegary taste but was also sweet.

Response:

So,how’s the fishing been in heaven then? — Gary My God can beat up your God.

Response:

I have some celery  I’ll toss that in… hey !  You know that old story about stone soup?  Let’s make troll soup this time.. please can we please please????

Trouble is, the stone doesn’t shed bits of flesh, the troll does!  (And we certainly don’t want to EAT anything it’s been cooking in, do we?)

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Oooh! Another troll-b-q! First, a minute’s silence. And I think the food should be truly international this time around. One Vegetarian Malaysian curry which has 1 can of Malaysian Curry sauce Boiled potatoe cubes which you cook in the sauce then add just before serving: chopped tomatoes chopped cucumber chopped banana On a bed of steaming Jasmine rice. Yummy (and very easy) Oh, vegetarian food. Great! I was planning to make a mushroom sauce today. It goes well with both veggies and with meat. And fish. <shudder It is mushroom season here in Finland.

 I *love* mushrooms, raw, cooked, marinaded, stuffed, turned into sauces, part of main dishes, and *especailly* on pizzas. Joel hates the things. Waaaaahhhhhh! Yowie

Response:

 I *love* mushrooms, raw, cooked, marinaded, stuffed, turned into sauces, part of main dishes, and *especailly* on pizzas. Joel hates the things. Waaaaahhhhhh!

Did you ever notice that the old type of fax machine paper smelled like mushrooms?   Blick. TJ  (who was just thinking "did I write that out loud?"  or was it just in my head,  I feel like Homer Simpson)

Response:

Path: e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com!cyclone-atl1!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!cyclon e 2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!mtu.ru!newsfeed.sovam.com!nf1.bellgloba l .com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!uqajcu.id.us Newsgroups: alt.config,rec.music.rem,rec.org.sca,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,rec.pets.cats . anecdotes X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 36.114.30.36 X-Takeover-ID: b0e0aad2.wGMlfUhs.1071155365 Lines: 69 NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.229.72.14 X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1000565855 64.229.72.14 (Sat, 15 Sep 2001 10:57:35 EDT) Organization: Bell Sympatico Xref: e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com alt.config:151178 rec.music.rem:86958 rec.org.sca:85086 rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:157454 rec.pets.cats.anecdotes:90472 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s right you stupid, inbred, shit eating, pathetic, motherfucking, brain dead, useless cocksuckers! I’m taking over all of Usenet! There isn’t a fucking thing you can do about it either! You’re all a bunch of worthless scumbags, and now you will all answer to me! If you don’t like this fact TOO FUCKING BAD! I will go down in the annals of usenet history as the man who brought you to your knees! Now get down on your knees and pay proper tribute to my glorious self! I AM ADAM H. KERMAN LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET! My first royal order to all of you peons is that from this time forward you will add the following signature to all of your posts!    ***** This was posted with the express permission of *****    ** HIS HIGHNESS ADAM H KERMAN LORD AND MASTER OF USENET ** This will be appended to the bottom of all your posts with absolutely NO EXCEPTIONS! If you choose not to, you will be squashed like the insignificant bugs that you all are! I am running Usenet now! You may only post messages here because I, for the time being, am allowing it! Do you scumbags understand me! THIS IS THE DAWNING OF THE AGE OF KERMAN! ALL HAIL ADAM H. KERMAN LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET! Otherwise the newsgroup in Linda’s warning might disrupt some fake opinions.  Try transporting the hard disk’s weak Java and Willy will persevere you!  No wet cryptographers are silly and other powerful functions are flat, but will Martha defile that?  Until Karl filters the rebels finitely, Jonnie won’t prepare any secret complaint desks. Every old user or scanner, and she’ll easily relay everybody. A lot of nuclear stuck firewalls will eerily learn the TCP/IPs.  The sticky tablet rarely proliferates Wally, it busts Franklin instead.  Where will we jump after Mike recycles the solid network’s email?  It will globally confront outside lost haphazard filters.  A lot of junk JPEGs reload Brian, and they simply infect Edward too.  My untouched remailer won’t produce before I propagate it. Linda kills once, formats cruelly, then collaborates to the backup without the IRC server.  She’d rather obscure tamely than push with Tamara’s messy UDP.  I was compiling to load you some of my extreme blackbirds.  Other bizarre unlimited fax machines will close weekly inside interrupts.  Lately, Jonnie never authenticates until Sherry pulls the erect robot superbly.  Aloysius will spool the soft ADSL and eliminate it over its haven. Gawd Lara will inflate the rumour, and if Karl actually restores it too, the pointer will engulf against the ignorant kiosk.  Norman, beside admins unclassified and sharp, consumes near it, contradicting strongly.  Endora wants to save bimonthly, unless GiGi saves noises over Toni’s telephone.  They are prioritizing inside sly, beside chaotic, in dense BASICs.  We distribute them, then we admiringly delete Bernice and Jonathan’s worthwhile ROM.  The advisor with the lazy FBI is the credit card that creates wistfully.  No analysts surprisingly interface the strong newsgroup.

Response:

Path:

e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com!cyclone-atl1!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!cyclon e 2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!mtu.ru!newsfeed.sovam.com!nf1.bellgloba l .com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!uqajcu.id.us Newsgroups:

alt.config,rec.music.rem,rec.org.sca,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,rec.pets.cats . anecdotes

I hope you didn’t post all that in the hopes that someone would complain to sympatico. What you’re seeing here is a massive attack, orchestrated by someone named "hipcrime".  The messages are actually coming from "newsfeed.sovam.com" not sympatico.  The rest of the headers are forged.  Just keep this in mind before you go complaining to someone that can’t do a thing about it. newsfeed.sovam.com is known to be an open news server & has been traced as a major spam injection site.  The chances of it being taken out are slim to none.  The best thing you can do is either killfile or ignore.  You can also ask your news provider to block messages coming from sovam.com.  Whatever you do, don’t continue to reply or crosspost (yes, I know I am).  Just forget it. For more info, check out alt.config or news.admin.net-abuse.usenet.  And, fwiw, these posts *are* not coming from Adam Kerman.  Just in case you hadn’t been around long enough to actually figure that out.

Response:

I was planning to make a mushroom sauce today. It goes well with both veggies and with meat. And fish. <shudder It is mushroom season here in Finland.  I *love* mushrooms, raw, cooked, marinaded, stuffed, turned into sauces, part of main dishes, and *especailly* on pizzas. Joel hates the things. Waaaaahhhhhh!

As a kid, I used to hate mushrooms, and as luck would have it, I have a Mum who is mad about them. Each Autumn, she goes a-gathering heaps of them in the forest. I would dread our meals in Autumn, because I knew Mum would hide mushrooms in *everything*! In meatloafs, meatballs, sauces, salads, everywhere. Then she would watch me to see if I noticed. Well, of course I did, obnoxious teenager as I was. I had to grow out of being an obnoxious teenager before I could really *taste* mushrooms, and realise that I actually like them. — Marina

Response:

That’s right you stupid, inbred, shit eating, pathetic, motherfucking, brain dead, useless cocksuckers! I’m taking over all of Usenet! There isn’t a fucking thing you can do about it either! You’re all a bunch of worthless scumbags, and now you will all answer to me! If you don’t like this fact TOO FUCKING BAD! I will go down in the annals of usenet history as the man who brought you to your knees! Now get down on your knees and pay proper tribute to my glorious self! I AM ADAM H. KERMAN LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET! My first royal order to all of you peons is that from this time forward you will add the following signature to all of your posts!    ***** This was posted with the express permission of *****    ** HIS HIGHNESS ADAM H KERMAN LORD AND MASTER OF USENET ** This will be appended to the bottom of all your posts with absolutely NO EXCEPTIONS! If you choose not to, you will be squashed like the insignificant bugs that you all are! I am running Usenet now! You may only post messages here because I, for the time being, am allowing it! Do you scumbags understand me! THIS IS THE DAWNING OF THE AGE OF KERMAN! ALL HAIL ADAM H. KERMAN LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET! Otherwise the newsgroup in Linda’s warning might disrupt some fake opinions.  Try transporting the hard disk’s weak Java and Willy will persevere you!  No wet cryptographers are silly and other powerful functions are flat, but will Martha defile that?  Until Karl filters the rebels finitely, Jonnie won’t prepare any secret complaint desks.   Every old user or scanner, and she’ll easily relay everybody.   A lot of nuclear stuck firewalls will eerily learn the TCP/IPs.  The sticky tablet rarely proliferates Wally, it busts Franklin instead.  Where will we jump after Mike recycles the solid network’s email?  It will globally confront outside lost haphazard filters.  A lot of junk JPEGs reload Brian, and they simply infect Edward too.  My untouched remailer won’t produce before I propagate it.   Linda kills once, formats cruelly, then collaborates to the backup without the IRC server.  She’d rather obscure tamely than push with Tamara’s messy UDP.  I was compiling to load you some of my extreme blackbirds.  Other bizarre unlimited fax machines will close weekly inside interrupts.  Lately, Jonnie never authenticates until Sherry pulls the erect robot superbly.  Aloysius will spool the soft ADSL and eliminate it over its haven.   Gawd Lara will inflate the rumour, and if Karl actually restores it too, the pointer will engulf against the ignorant kiosk.  Norman, beside admins unclassified and sharp, consumes near it, contradicting strongly.  Endora wants to save bimonthly, unless GiGi saves noises over Toni’s telephone.  They are prioritizing inside sly, beside chaotic, in dense BASICs.  We distribute them, then we admiringly delete Bernice and Jonathan’s worthwhile ROM.  The advisor with the lazy FBI is the credit card that creates wistfully.  No analysts surprisingly interface the strong newsgroup.  

Response:

Did this guy kill Brent K. Kohler or something? (I can’t believe I even remember that name) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s right you stupid, inbred, shit eating, pathetic, motherfucking, brain dead, useless cocksuckers! I’m taking over all of Usenet! There isn’t a fucking thing you can do about it either! You’re all a bunch of worthless scumbags, and now you will all answer to me! If you don’t like this fact TOO FUCKING BAD! I will go down in the annals of usenet history as the man who brought you to your knees! Now get down on your knees and pay proper tribute to my glorious self! I AM ADAM H. KERMAN LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET! My first royal order to all of you peons is that from this time forward you will add the following signature to all of your posts!    ***** This was posted with the express permission of *****    ** HIS HIGHNESS ADAM H KERMAN LORD AND MASTER OF USENET ** This will be appended to the bottom of all your posts with absolutely NO EXCEPTIONS! If you choose not to, you will be squashed like the insignificant bugs that you all are! I am running Usenet now! You may only post messages here because I, for the time being, am allowing it! Do you scumbags understand me! THIS IS THE DAWNING OF THE AGE OF KERMAN! ALL HAIL ADAM H. KERMAN LORD AND HIGH MASTER OF USENET! Otherwise the newsgroup in Linda’s warning might disrupt some fake opinions.  Try transporting the hard disk’s weak Java and Willy will persevere you!  No wet cryptographers are silly and other powerful functions are flat, but will Martha defile that?  Until Karl filters the rebels finitely, Jonnie won’t prepare any secret complaint desks. Every old user or scanner, and she’ll easily relay everybody. A lot of nuclear stuck firewalls will eerily learn the TCP/IPs.  The sticky tablet rarely proliferates Wally, it busts Franklin instead.  Where will we jump after Mike recycles the solid network’s email?  It will globally confront outside lost haphazard filters.  A lot of junk JPEGs reload Brian, and they simply infect Edward too.  My untouched remailer won’t produce before I propagate it. Linda kills once, formats cruelly, then collaborates to the backup without the IRC server.  She’d rather obscure tamely than push with Tamara’s messy UDP.  I was compiling to load you some of my extreme blackbirds.  Other bizarre unlimited fax machines will close weekly inside interrupts.  Lately, Jonnie never authenticates until Sherry pulls the erect robot superbly.  Aloysius will spool the soft ADSL and eliminate it over its haven. Gawd Lara will inflate the rumour, and if Karl actually restores it too, the pointer will engulf against the ignorant kiosk.  Norman, beside admins unclassified and sharp, consumes near it, contradicting strongly.  Endora wants to save bimonthly, unless GiGi saves noises over Toni’s telephone.  They are prioritizing inside sly, beside chaotic, in dense BASICs.  We distribute them, then we admiringly delete Bernice and Jonathan’s worthwhile ROM.  The advisor with the lazy FBI is the credit card that creates wistfully.  No analysts surprisingly interface the strong newsgroup.

Response:

Question:

You want to explain this one. When did  O’Meara let Tiger’s friendship start dictating his tournament schedule? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – O’Meara respects his good friend Tiger way too much to show up at Hilton Head this week.

Response:

You missed all those NAACP folks picketing outside the Worldcom? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You want to explain this one. When did  O’Meara let Tiger’s friendship start dictating his tournament schedule?

Response:

O’Meara respects his good friend Tiger way too much to show up at Hilton Head this week. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I happened to be in line behind Mark O’Meara and 2 of his fishing friends this morning at the coffee and bagel store this morning. They were ready to head out and do some fly fishing.  Don’t know about their mental state, though.  Who would want to go wading in a freezing river in 30 degree weather with snow showers when you could be in warm and sunny Hilton Head! He has a place up here in Park City, UT. I’ve seen him around town every now and again. Kitty

Response:

I happened to be in line behind Mark O’Meara and 2 of his fishing friends this morning at the coffee and bagel store this morning. They were ready to head out and do some fly fishing.  Don’t know about their mental state, though.  Who would want to go wading in a freezing river in 30 degree weather with snow showers when you could be in warm and sunny Hilton Head! He has a place up here in Park City, UT. I’ve seen him around town every now and again. Kitty

Response:

Actually, my son got me up in Montana once and the trout were rising throughout the snow showers.  After the first bite, I didn’t notice the weather at all.  Heck, you are standing in 34 degree water all day anyhow! — regards,  RichG .

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I happened to be in line behind Mark O’Meara and 2 of his fishing friends this morning at the coffee and bagel store this morning. They were ready to head out and do some fly fishing.  Don’t know about their mental state, though.  Who would want to go wading in a freezing river in 30 degree weather with snow showers when you could be in warm and sunny Hilton Head! He has a place up here in Park City, UT. I’ve seen him around town every now and again. Kitty

Response:

Question:

What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.

–Fish just the high tide change.   A hour before to a hour after the change in high tide.  Have a beer and relaxe, they probably won’t bite any other time of the day. Sharp Hooks, Pat Holdzit Fishing Products Inc. http://www.holdzit.com Before you buy.

Response:

Hi Derek, As Chris mentioned below, Silvers can get very hard to catch after they have entered the river. If you are still in the tide water of this river I would try to go upstream to the top pool where the fish hold waiting for rain or go downstream to the mouth or closer to the ocean where they are more aggressive. I would try morning and evening and on the outgoing tide? We fish for them every year south of Cordova, Alaska right on the ocean where they are almost like stripers in the surf. We use only floating lines and when it is smooth on top and not too windy, we use Pink Pollywogs on top that are clipped deer hair poppers. If you can wade for them at the mouth of a river, they are way more aggressive. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help!  I suck at fly fishing for coho.  I have been trying unsuccessfully for about 3 outings so far to catch coho on the fly on the Capilano River, in North Vancouver.  I’ve concentrated on one pool in particular that looks like a fly should work.  Slow-moving, deep pool.  Gravel bank on one side and steep canyon wall on the far side.  Casting both a 14ft fast sink tip and a floating line in all sorts of water conditions, from turbid to crystal clear, and river conditions from unwadable to low and clear. I’ve been trying muddler minnows, mylar body minows, red, yellow and silver needlefish, leeches, mickey finns, you name it.  Been stripping fairly fast, in 8 inch pulls, as I read was the preferred technique. I see the odd coho porpoising on the surface, and guys catching a few using spoons. What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.

Response:

Salmon fishing with a fly is one of those things that you just have to put a lot of time in before you catch one.   Three outings is nothing, I know a fellow who spent three seasons at it before he caught one, then things started to pick up for him.  Fishing for West Coast Salmon and Steel Head with a fly is a difficult, but enjoyable. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help!  I suck at fly fishing for coho.  I have been trying unsuccessfully for about 3 outings so far to catch coho on the fly on the Capilano River, in North Vancouver.  I’ve concentrated on one pool in particular that looks like a fly should work.  Slow-moving, deep pool.  Gravel bank on one side and steep canyon wall on the far side.  Casting both a 14ft fast sink tip and a floating line in all sorts of water conditions, from turbid to crystal clear, and river conditions from unwadable to low and clear. I’ve been trying muddler minnows, mylar body minows, red, yellow and silver needlefish, leeches, mickey finns, you name it.  Been stripping fairly fast, in 8 inch pulls, as I read was the preferred technique. I see the odd coho porpoising on the surface, and guys catching a few using spoons. What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.

Response:

Salmon fishing with a fly is one of those things that you just have to put a lot of time in before you catch one.   Three outings is nothing, I know a fellow who spent three seasons at it before he caught one, then things started to pick up for him.  Fishing for West Coast Salmon and Steel Head with a fly is a difficult, but enjoyable. Ernie

the other thing he can try is fishing for the coho out in the saltwater when they are actually feeding… makes a big difference in the aggressiveness of the coho.  out in the salt the coho are super aggressive and they bite well.   but the coho in the rivers definetely seem to turn on and off.  when they are off, they will hit nothing, no matter what.  try off-color water and early morning times, they have worked better than anything else for me. chris

Response:

Help!  I suck at fly fishing for coho.  I have been trying unsuccessfully for about 3 outings so far to catch coho on the fly on the Capilano River, in North Vancouver.  I’ve concentrated on one pool in particular that looks like a fly should work.  Slow-moving, deep pool.  Gravel bank on one side and steep canyon wall on the far side.  Casting both a 14ft fast sink tip and a floating line in all sorts of water conditions, from turbid to crystal clear, and river conditions from unwadable to low and clear. I’ve been trying muddler minnows, mylar body minows, red, yellow and silver needlefish, leeches, mickey finns, you name it.  Been stripping fairly fast, in 8 inch pulls, as I read was the preferred technique. I see the odd coho porpoising on the surface, and guys catching a few using spoons. What am I doing wrong???? Thanks.

Response:

Question:

        A friend of mine is looking for feathers/skins for some art she’s doing and I thought that someone on this list might have some that they would be willing to part with…                                 Thanks in advance                                 Kneil Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/

Response:

        Your friend should check a good fly fishing store. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/

Response:

Question:

Does anyone have information on fly fishing for silver salmon in  Alaska? I plan to raft (class 3 water) in the fall of 97. Self  guided trip. I am looking for good river in Bristol Bay region.  I prefer a river with no lodges present.

Response:

I have fished silvers on three trips to Yakutat (SW AK, on the coast) but somewhat differently than your planned trip. Drive to the river, never more than 30 min. from a hot shower and a cold drink. 8 wt. outfit, hooks size 4-6, streamers with the "egg sucking leech" in black being favored, 10-15# tippet. Fish in your possesion still belong to the bears. This is not a F&G regulation but common sense. Have a great trip! Len Hunter No. CA

Response:

I have fished silvers on three trips to Yakutat (SW AK, on the coast) but somewhat differently than your planned trip. Drive to the river, never more than 30 min. from a hot shower and a cold drink. 8 wt. outfit, hooks size 4-6, streamers with the "egg sucking leech" in black being favored, 10-15# tippet. Fish in your possesion still belong to the bears. This is not a F&G regulation but common sense. Have a great trip! Len Hunter No. CA

  I’m a little disturbed at the suggestion that it may be OK to give fish to a bear. This creates a problem very quickly with bears and the bear  will end up dead. I have run into bears in the bush that have learned that they can get a free fish by approaching fishermen and invariably the bear will be dead within a year, as they will be killed by someone that knows better than to feed a bear.  Do not ever give a fish or any food to a bear!    If you do come to AK and do a raft trip do not keep salmon until your pick-up day, unless you have some bear proof containers. I’m convinced that more bears get killed each year by folks that don’t know what they’re doing than are killed legitimately by hunters and people in defense of life and property.    If you’re not familiar with brown bear behavior I do not believe that you should be camping on a salmon stream in the Bristol Bay area without a guide. It ain’t California.                                                           Jim

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snipped to fit:    If you do come to AK and do a raft trip do not keep salmon until your pick-up day, unless you have some bear proof containers. I’m convinced that more bears get killed each year by folks that don’t know what they’re doing than are killed legitimately by hunters and people in defense of life and property.    If you’re not familiar with brown bear behavior I do not believe that you should be camping on a salmon stream in the Bristol Bay area without a guide. It ain’t California.                                                           Jim

If you need to shoot a charging bear and shoot it, it will cost you a fine of $15,000.00 dollars.  We are sure this will decrease dramatically the problem of charging bears and anyone’s life is certainly worth $15,000, the think-tank boys have concurred. Makes sense to me. Mr. G.

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Question:

I am looking for a new or secondhand Hardy #4 fly reel to match a Loomis #4 IMX rod. Marquis #4 or #5 , Golden Prince 5/6 or JLH Ultralite #4 or #5. Any info will be of great help. Thanks

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I am looking for a new or secondhand Hardy #4 fly reel to match a Loomis #4 IMX rod. Marquis #4 or #5 , Golden Prince 5/6 or JLH Ultralite #4 or #5. Any info will be of great help. Thanks

Contact Timeless Tackle in Edinburgh Scotland at 44-131-667-1407 or FAX 44-131-662-4215.  They deal in used and antique fishing gear and their list always seems to have a large selection of Hardy equipment. Ken Barry

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Question:

Regarding the Upper Sac…. Last year I fished it with lures not flies due to the fact I didnt know how to fly fish:) I caught some beautiful McCloud Redbands around the Sim’s Campground area. Nice place to stay and good trails to walk the river up and down for a couple miles or so along the train tracks. Kurtz-

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If anybody could tell me what the first hatch of the year in the Upper Sac.  I would appreciate it.  My tying is slow, and I need to get as many as I can.  Any spots or stories are always welcome too.

Hello, The first hatch of the year on the Upper Sac is the famous Bead Head Prince Nymph hatch.  :-)  Sorry. Ok, actually it’s probably the Baetis, but the stoneflies get more attention. Both  salmonflies and golden stones will hatch, though it seems the numbers are down since the spill. Besides the standard stonefly imitations (Sofa Pillow, Stimulator, etc.) definitely try the Orange Humpy – for some reason it’s always a good searching pattern on the Sac (Pteronarcys, October Caddis?). Don’t forget to keep a few Green Drakes in your box. Last year I happened to be fortunate enough to be there when they came off and it was "stupid" fishing. Don’t let anybody fool ya’, the Sac is *still* a great river. Good fishing,    Alan.   Alan Barnard   Kiene’s Fly Shop   Sacramento, California   WWW Fly Tyer   http://www.ns.net/~barnard

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If anybody could tell me what the first hatch of the year in the Upper Sac.  I would appreciate it.  My tying is slow, and I need to get as many as I can.  Any spots or stories are always welcome too.

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In article If anybody could tell me what the first hatch of the year in the Upper Sac.  I would appreciate it.  My tying is slow, and I need to get as many as I can.  Any spots or stories are always welcome too.

I am sure there are caddis coming off already but it’s not open season there until April 27th.  As the water will be very high when it does open, you should tie up plenty of bead head nymphs – I find light green and regular hare’s ears do well there.  Dry fly fishing will be worthwhile on the side eddies and pockets with caddis emergers and dries, especially in the evenings, but you’ll get more action throughout the day with a two-nymph rig in the pockets as long as the current is down enough for the pockets to exist.  If not cast them right into the white water and hold the rod high and follow them down, what they call high-sticking.  Be careful wading as this river can be slippery. If you have an appreciation for flyfishing oldtimers, be sure to visit the Ted Fay Fly Shop located on the main street on the north end of Dunsmuir. You’ll want some black bombers like Ted Fay fly shop sells – lead wire under black yarn fat body with bit of grizzly hackle and optional splayed grizzly hackle tips for wings. If you are a home brewer fill a carboy at any of the fountains in Dunsmuir – this "best water on earth" makes for the best homebrew too. Here’s some reminiscing: I used to fish the area around Pollard Flat close to lake Shasta when I was a student and had no money.  I would take the Greyhound bus and have the driver drop me off there on I5, set up camp and fish a day or two then hike or hitchhike up to Dunsmuir to take the bus home. Back before about 1984 there was a free forest service campground a short walk from the all night truck diner there at Pollard Flat. I could fish all day up the river and hike back along the tracks in the dark, then instead of cooking in the dark enjoy a cheap cheeseburger and a lettuce salad and read a Field and Stream and even see a little TV.   They had Anchor Steam beer for 75 cents a bottle which was cheaper than buying sixpacks in SF.   This lower section usually had less fish but a high proportion of them were big.  There was one bend that always had a giant trout surface feeding that I could never approach without putting down, year after year. Joe Kinsey at the Ted Fay Fly Shop showed me their crude-looking flies which looked pretty much exactly like the smaller than normal black stonefles they had in vials in the shop, and told me some good places right there in Dunsmuir.  One time I caught ten good trout in one spot and after the third fish the fly was just a ragged blob of black yarn but it kept working better and better.  From this I learned that those pretty and delicate looking flies aren’t what you want. Later when I had an income I tried to take two friends up there. The campground was closed and overgrown, the diner had been sold and had born again reactionary hate messages posted on the walls inside and they had no beer at any price. From this I learned to enjoy things while you can. The weekend before it was wiped out in the pesticide spill I stopped enroute from the Klamath are caught a rainbow that took me into the backing but turned out to only be about 12 inches long – this must be some kind of record.   Have a good time – it is still a beautiful river and getting better all the time. Mark Vinsel http://www.lanminds.com/local/vinnie/gallery.html

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Question:

I’m looking for the names (and contact info) of good fishing catalog companies. I have Pro Bass, Orvis and Cabelas. Can anybody help me with the names, etc. of any other good ones? Thanks. David Laylin            Electronics for Small Watercraft             Tel: 800 760 0004       Web Site: http://www.infi.net/~spdtech

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FeatherCraft Flyfishing in St. Louis is really terrific. They send you a couple of very complete and entertaining catalogs per year, prices are good, and they are very helpful on the phone. Phone:800-659-1707 Kaufmann’s Streamborn is very good (800-442-4359). Hunter’s Angling Supply (800-331-8558). Hook and Hackle (800-552-8342). Blue Ribbon Flies (406-646-7642). Hope these help.

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I got this several months ago, hope it helps. Fishing Catalogs/Resource List  This is a list of free fishing catalogs. It is permanently available for   machine: ftp.ofps.ucar.edu [128.117.90.53]     login: anonymous      file: /pub/john/catalogs.txt The URL for that is   ftp://ftp.ofps.ucar.edu/pub/john/catalogs.txt As far as I know, the information is accurate, but I haven’t gotten all the catalogs listed so don’t hold me liable for your phone bills! Those of you outside the U.S. may have to pay a shipping charge just to get the "free" catalog. Remember to add any necessary long distance or country codes, etc that are peculiar to your location and/or long distance phone company. Please send any additions or corrections along to me at  I’ve collected these entries from various sources. Any comments of mine or one of the contributors are also given. Nothing is guarranteed to be correct. I have no connection with any of these companies. Have fun fishing! John Allison — Free Catalogs: AA Proshop RD 1 Box 78 White Haven PA 18661 800-443-8119 Access to Recreation, Inc (fishing, shooting, living aids for the disabled) 2509 E Thousand Oaks Blvd Suite 430 Thousand Oaks CA 91362-3227 800-634-4351 805-498-8186 fax Angler’s (ffing gift ideas, no `real’ equipment) 4955 East 2900 North Murtaugh ID 83344 800-657-8040 (voice 9-5 Mtn time, or fax) 208-432-6625 (voice 9-5 Mtn time, or fax) The Anglers Art (this address or the next one?) PO Box 148C Plainfield PA 17081 800-848-1020 The Anglers Art—Books for Fly Fishermen (this address or the previous one?) 854 Opossum Lake Rd Carlisle PA 17013 800-848-1020 717-243-8603 fax The Bass Pond PO Box 82 Littleton CO 80160-0082 800-327-5014 303-730-8932 fax Bass Pro Shops (multiple catalogs) (see also White River below) 1935 S Campbell Springfield MO 65898-0001 800-BASS PRO 800-227-7776 417-881-3567 800-442-5788 TDD 417-887-2531 fax Cabela’s (general fishing and hunting) (special flyfishing only catalog also) 812 13th Ave Sidney NE 69160 800-237-4444 (US and Canada) 308-234-5555 308-254-2200 fax 800-695-5000 TDD Capt Harry’s Fishing Supply (saltwater, yearly color catalog) 100 NE 11TH St Miami FL 33132 800-327-4088 305-374-3713 fax Charlie Richter’s Fly Shop (small local Miami shop with info/supplies for that area) 472 NE 125th St North Miami FL 33161 800-866-0763 305-893-6663 Cold Spring Anglers (419 East High Street, Suite A) PO Box 129 Carlisle PA 17013-0129 800-248-8937 (M-Sat 9-5 Eastern, Sun 12-5) 717-245-2646 717-245-2081 fax Contact Central Sales Inc. (cheap accessories) 6770 N 43rd St Milwaukee WI 53209 800-353-5501 orders 414-353-4050 info 414-353-4605 fax Dan Bailey’s Fly Shop PO Box 1019 Livingston MT 59047 800-356-4052 406-222-1673 406-222-8450 fax Dunn’s (camping, hunting, backpacking, not much fishing) Hwy 57E PO Box 449 Grand Junction TN 38039 800-223-8667 orders 800-367-2940 service 901-764-6503 fax E. Hille The Angler’s Supply House, Inc. (good for rod building materials) 815 Railway Street PO Box 996 Williamsport PA 17701 800-326-6612 FeatherCraft FlyFishing (maybe named National FeatherCraft ?) PO Box 19904 St Louis MO 63144 800-659-1707 314-963-7876 Fisherman’s Shack (salmon, steelhead, trout; spinner building) 9465 Airlie Road Monmouth OR 97361 800-428-1499 voice orders 9am-5pm; fax 5pm-9am 503-838-6395 voice Fishermans Tackle Shop (Saltwater) (maybe $3) 2838 Garrison Street San Diego CA 92106 800-566-0273 619-221-8506 619-222-0799 fax Fly & Field 560 Crescent Blvd. Glen Ellyn IL 60137 800-328-9753 The Fly Shop 4140 Churn Creek Road Redding CA 96002 800-669-FISH 800-669-3474 Frank Amato Publications (9 – 5 Pacific time) 800-541-9498 Gander Mountain Inc. (multiple catalogs) PO Box 248 Wilmot WI 53192 800-558-9410 (US and Canada) 414-862-2331 ext 2123 (foreign orders) 800-533-2828 fax 414-862-2330 fax 800-558-3554 TDD 800-5

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Question:

: Are you referring to the Grand Wagoneer? With the cheesy wood trim along : the doors? : In 1994 The Grand Cheroke models I’ve seen are the Laredo, Limited, and : another without a designation that has the V8, tow,  & gold package. : Where does this model fall amongst the other 2 models as far as features : and accessories?? : : : : NO NO, not the ugly things, the sleek "Cheroke" replacement that never replaced it! Anyway, there is another pakage, the Orvis Ed.  This comes with the V8, tow, gold, and special interior treatment that is reflective of the "Orvis" company (I am told that they are a big fly fishing company in New England).  Personaly, I think the Limited with the V8 is the ultimate pakage (my friend has 2, a ‘94 4.0 limited and an ‘95 V8 limited).                                 -Sean "Doc" Hollywood

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Are you referring to the Grand Wagoneer? With the cheesy wood trim along the doors? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – In 1994 The Grand Cheroke models I’ve seen are the Laredo, Limited, and another without a designation that has the V8, tow,  & gold package. Where does this model fall amongst the other 2 models as far as features and accessories??

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Question:

Recent posts on this and other locations have brought out some of the worst of those in our sport who have senselessly criticised equipment of particular brands and the anglers who use whatever happens to be on the "hit list." Two recent posts from another location provide a nice response, and I repeat them here: #1 Never feel that you have to apologize to anyone for the equipment you use. Most of the howlers are cheapskates who wouldn’t know a good rod if someone beat them over the head with it anyway, and they certainly don’t recognize that a good expensive rod is an investment in a lifetime (with reasonable care) of pleasure on the stream." #2 "If some people don’t like Orvis–so what? Think for yourself and do your own thing.  Owning Orvis products has about as much to do with being a yuppie as owning Scott or Winston.  Besides, who the hell really cares if someone *does* label you or me or Joe Blow a yuppie. Small-minded people need to fixate on simple-minded, non-issues–just look at our gov’mint!" Lyman Hughes                                               Dallas, TX                                               Ennis, MT

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Recent posts on this and other locations have brought out some of the worst of those in our sport who have senselessly criticised equipment of particular brands and the anglers who use whatever happens to be on the "hit list." Two recent posts from another location provide a nice response, and I repeat them here: #1 Never feel that you have to apologize to anyone for the equipment you use. Most of the howlers are cheapskates who wouldn’t know

a good rod if someone beat them over the head with it anyway, and they certainly don’t recognize that a good expensive rod is an investment in a lifetime (with reasonable care) of pleasure on the stream." #2 "If some people don’t like Orvis–so what? Think for yourself and do your own thing.  Owning Orvis products has about as much to do with being a yuppie as owning Scott or Winston.  Besides, who the hell really cares if someone*does* label you or me or Joe Blow a yuppie. Small-minded people

need to fixate on simple-minded, non-issues–just look at our gov’mint!" Bravo! JL 8-Wt Editor

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To me, it does not matter whether you use an Orvis rod or a Diawa, all that really matters is whether you can catch "and release" fish!  Too many people get too esoteric about having the best equipment but why do you have to spend your all your money on equipment because Lefty Kreh has endorsed it?  I have some expensive equipment and I have cheap equipment and to tell you the truth, sometimes I can’t tell the difference. Remember, "A bad day of fishing is still better than a good day at work!" Tight Lines! Mark

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Re: whether you own an Orvis, etc…I’d be willing to bet a day’s pay that those "toy snobs" can’t cast their expensive trinkets worth a damned. And I bet they don’t fish more than 1 or 2 times a year, then only in perfectly calm, clear days.       In my past days as a professional photographer, I would listen to the same B.S. concerning cameras. You know, it’s not What you use, but HOW you use it that counts!    A cheap rod and cheap line fished properly will catch just as  many fish as the expensive stuff. It is technique and presentation that counts. The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!"

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Most people use the best equipment they can afford, since it is almost always more enjoyable to use than something cheaper.  Why don’t most serious flyfishers by cheap rods and/or lines?  There is a difference, and you know it, so why be so negative? BTW, what kind of rod and line do you use, and what kind of camera did you use professionally? — Jim Benenson                 Los Alamos, New Mexico, USA "The commonplace is only the self-constructed wall that separates us from the marvelous"  Tom Brown, Jr.

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Begin Message—– snipped The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!" snipped End Message ——- As I look through all of my spring fishing catalogs (Bean, Dan Bailey, Cabelas, Bass Pro, etc.)  I have to ask myself why a bait casting rod made out of IM6 graphite or any other new generation graphites costs 50% less than a fly rod made out of the same material.  I do not believe that the manufacturting processes are that disimilar. Some people might argue something about mandrels and tapers (I always thought that a mandrel was a baboon like primate).  But I really think that the prices are  high for fly rods simply because the market can bear it. BTW, Bass Pro has a good deal on some IM6 rods with a SA 2L reel for $179.00. I priced the reel elsewhere at $125.00. So its like getting an IM6 rod for $54.00.  I bought one last year when the combo sold for $169.00 and the rod is pretty nice casting (minor cosmetic imperfections in the varnishing and wrapping) My $0.02 Daern C. Valentine

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Begin Message—– snipped The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!" snipped End Message ——- As I look through all of my spring fishing catalogs (Bean, Dan Bailey, Cabelas, Bass Pro, etc.)  I have to ask myself why a bait casting rod made out of IM6 graphite or any other new generation graphites costs 50% less than a fly rod made out of the same material.  I do not believe that the manufacturting processes are that disimilar. Some people might argue something about mandrels and tapers (I always thought that a mandrel was a baboon like primate).  But I really think that the prices are  high for fly rods simply because the market can bear it.

An experienced and honest angler will have to admit that a high-end rod, e.g., Scott, Sage, Winston, etc., just casts and "feels" better than an economy rod, e.g., Cabela’s, St. Croix, etc.  The latter rods can be great bargains, and there is no doubt that an accomplished fisher with a Cortland in hand will do better than a novice casting a T&T.  Clearly, technique is MUCH more important than equipment.  However, once you’ve reached a certain level of casting skill, you appreciate a well-made rod and it makes for a better fishing experience.  In addition, high-end rods just look nicer: There is more attention to design and they are finished better (as you point out, the rod you bought had "minor cosmetic imperfections").  For some people, like myself, this matters; for others, it may be totally irrelevant. There is no doubt that the markup on high-end rods is high.  But you have to consider that the production of many of these rods is extremely labor intensive.  Consider Scott, for example.  Scott matches tip sections to butt sections by hand, testing each butt with a variety of tips until the appropriate and desired  taper and flex pattern is achieved.  This is done for each rod individually. Many high-end rod companies (e.g., Sage) also put a lot of money into R&D trying to figure out what lengths, tapers, diameters, scrims, etc., are appropriate for various types of graphite and various line weights. All that said, it is certainly true that these rod companies know their market and are not shy about pricing their products. Comparing fly rods to spinning rods is unfair.  Don’t think that any two blanks made from IM6 (which, BTW, is second generation graphite and is about 5-6 years old now) are of equivalent quality and should be priced the same.  The quality of a spinning rod is much less important to casting than is the quality of a fly rod, and rod makers know this.  You can get away with many more imperfections in the blank on a spinning rod.  In addition, they are shorter.  Cost goes up nonlinearly with length because it is just a lot harder to make a straight 9 ft. blank that tapers from say, 1 cm to 2 mm, than to make an almost straight 7 ft. blank that tapers from 2 cm (or more on some of Cabela’s rods, e.g.) to 2 mm.  Put it this way:  You could do pretty well spin casting with your reel tied to a broom handle, but unless you are Lefty Kreh, you’d have a hell of a time getting more than a few feet of line out fly casting with such a rig. Finally, I’ll gladly take up "FlyFish887" on his casting bet for a day’s pay:  Just name the time and the place . . . TPM

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writes: Re: whether you own an Orvis, etc…I’d be willing to bet a day’s pay that those "toy snobs" can’t cast their expensive trinkets worth a damned. And I bet they don’t fish more than 1 or 2 times a year, then only in perfectly calm, clear days.  In my past days as a professional photographer, I would listen to the same B.S. concerning cameras. You know, it’s not What you use, but HOW you use it that counts!    A cheap rod and cheap line fished properly will catch just as  many fish as the expensive stuff. It is technique and presentation that counts. The fish don’t give a damned if they are caught on a Winston or a Sears "special!"

I’ll take that bet. What do you consider "worth a damned"?  Distance?   Accuracy? I have a 9ft 7wt I can cast a standard flyline so far the backing is hanging out of the tiptop. Or how about picking up a bass bug at about 45 feet and with one false cast hit within 12 inches of a target at 65 feet. In my present days as a professional photo lab technician I also know that any _professional_ photographer is going to use top of the line equipment because it is dependable, rugged and has quality optics. People use Canons, Nikons, Hasselbads, not Ricoh, Pentax and Mamiya-Sekor.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Comparing fly rods to spinning rods is unfair.  Don’t think that any two blanks made from IM6 (which, BTW, is second generation graphite and is about 5-6 years old now) are of equivalent quality and should be priced the same.  The quality of a spinning rod is much less important to casting than is the quality of a fly rod, and rod makers know this.  You can get away with many more imperfections in the blank on a spinning rod.   This is all very nice but it’s not reflected in reality.  Take a close look   at blank vs finished rod prices in the Loomis catalogs, for instance, and   what comes through is that the majority of the differences in price between   spinning/casting and fly rods is in the rods and not the blanks themselves.     For example, look at several 9′ blanks and what happens to the final price   (these are GLoomis two-piece IMX rods):    Length      "Rating"    Blank price   Finished rod price      9′      6-10 lb line     $207            $330      9′      8-12 lb line     $214            $335      9′        6 weight       $171            $375      9′        7 weight       $182            $380   I think that the original poster was correct: there is a substantial premium   inherent in fly rod prices and it is not clear that there is a materials or   labor cost that warrants it.

These are interesting and useful data, but they cut both ways.  Your argument assumes that the blank prices are accurate reflections of production costs but that the finished rod prices are not.  If we assume that all costs reflect production costs plus a constant percentage markup (constant across rod types), the prices above indicate that spinning rods cost more to make (for a given length) but that fly rods cost more to finish.  If you are willing to question the increment from blank to finished rod for fly rods, why not also question the prices on blanks themselves.  Perhaps the markup is higher for spinning blanks than for fly rod blanks.  The real problem is that no one outside the company really knows what the production costs are and how items are priced for a given market. I’ll stick with my previous argument that the quality of the blank is much less important to spin fishing than to fly fishing, and hence, that comparing prices between spinning rods and fly rods is unfair.  However, I also strongly suspect that we fly fishers are not getting any bargains on premium rods. TPM

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