Question:

If the Guardians win in court, or if the government settles, the number of

cows a rancher is allowed to graze with his permit is cut. That hands the Guardians a double victory: Not only does the land get a breather, but the rancher has to pay much more to feed his displaced cows on private land. Interesting concept that "free market"  Sounds like the ranchers prefer a Socialist type system.

Response:

I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east…

Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to move that land into less intensive uses. Thomas Gilg

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east… Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to move that land into less intensive uses. Thomas Gilg

Also what has to be remembered is that the ranchers who won’t be able to afford higher grazing fees will be the smaller family operations. The bigger ones will be able to absorb any increased costs. By most accounts grazing is a problem ( a huge problem in some instances) along the riparian corridors out west but it is also problematic if the solution only brings about the demise of family ranches to the benefit of the huge multi-national conglomerate run outfits. No one said this was going to be easy. George C.

Response:

 What our outdoor wildlife inventories need is the total removal of all livestock that steal their food and habitat. Why? Because wildlife is more valuable to a state’s economy as it is to the Federal Economy. Allowing grazing on Federal (PUBLIC) lands to individual ranchers is stupid economics. George G.

Response:

|

| I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of | depopulation in rural communities back east… | | Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was | several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners | were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does | appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider | myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I | also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring | in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an | opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend | (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – | I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend | lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off | (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to | move that land into less intensive uses. | | Thomas Gilg | | | | | Also what has to be remembered is that the ranchers who won’t be able to afford | higher grazing fees will be the smaller family operations. The bigger ones will | be able to absorb any increased costs. By most accounts grazing is a problem ( a | huge problem in some instances) along the riparian corridors out west but it is | also problematic if the solution only brings about the demise of family ranches | to the benefit of the huge multi-national conglomerate run outfits. | | No one said this was going to be easy. | George C. | That may be true, too. The reason my grandfather specialized, was to devote more acres to one crop, to be able to absorb the fixed overheads. But even he had just 500 acres. My father struggled to make money. I refused to take over – it was clear at an early age that it simply COULD NOT be profitable, because of/despite the (socialist) policies of the Common Agricultural Policy, dreamed up by the EU. These same policies were actually intended to protect the family farm. In reality they destroyed it. Q. How far do we go, to protect the family farm? The French have split their farms between 2 (or more) sons for generations. Now they have 100-acre farms that are mere subsistence farming. On an environmental tack – I would prefer to see people grazing farm land that is already farm land & lacking farmers, rather than grazing the more fragile environments often (but not always) found on federal lands. Take the money farm managers pay and use it to encourage farmers to take up the land that has been converted from it’s natural state, into My family were TENANT farmers. After my father & his brother retired, the farm was bought from the landlord & is now actually profitable. Q. HOW – by finding a niche. The current farmers don’t try to compete with the large managed farms. They run an organic farm – even the wool is organic. They don’t need help competing, because they specialisze. I suspect the family-ranchers here in the SW USA will have to also find a niche.

Response:

Even if they are, that just means more money needs to be spent on enforcing the current restrictions, not coming up with more.

And sadly the folks breaking the law are the same ones against any additional government enforcement of the law. Thomas Gilg

Response:

| I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze | that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? | | In this country, you are entitled to your own opinion…. even when it’s an | incorrect one. Maybe if you’d actually get out there and meet a real | cattleman, you’d change your tune. | | George– | This is Cindy… Brian’s wife writing now.  I cannot believe your comments | regarding ranchers/cattlemen ripping off the consumer.  I grew up in Eastern | Montana on a small ranch.  My father received 70-90 cents per pound for his | calves sold every fall.  This fall the price given to cattlemen for their | calves is still 70-75 cents per pound.  Not much of a raise over the past 20 | years.  Your accusations against the ranchers holds no water.  You are | basically talking out of your rear-end.  If you would do some research and | cared about your country, you would see that the family ranches are unable | to support their families. I grew up on a farm in England – we raised beef without ANY cheap grazing. We found a way – we rented permanent pasture, that was atop historic monuments (and couldn’t be ploughed), we housed steers in the old milking parlour during the Winter (after a milking herd ceased to be profitable), but we NEVER had grazing land subsidised by the taxpayer. We made a living growing beef. Any help we can give the ranchers in the use of | public lands is money put back into our economy and assistance to families | who are trying to make a living providing food for your table.  And just in | case you are a vegetarian, don’t forget those ranchers who graze cattle on | public land can then use the land they own to grow grain and barley for your | bread.  Don’t be such a twit. | | Boy, George… did you ever step in it!! When Cindy reads over my shoulder | and kicks me off the keyboard…. well, you get the drift. | — | Tight Lines! | Brian D. Nelson | Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana | www.diamondnoutfitters.com | |

Response:

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.

Brian D. Nelson responded: I can recall many times having the BLM officer who monitors the grazing permits … I also know of ranchers (not many, though) who lost their grazing permits … You,  sir, are clueless.

Across the west you’ll find varying compliance with grazing permits. Ditto logging laws and so on. I regularily volunteer to help with multi-agency state/federal fish surveys in eastern Oregon, and it is not uncommon to find cattle grazing well outside their permitted range. In one case we were surveying for bull trout in a remote backcountry area where grazing permits had been eliminated several years before, and yet we still found cattle and signs of regular grazing activity *inside the former and still-fenced allotments*. Some of the agency folks were suppose to followup on that discovery. Thomas Gilg

Response:

eliminated several years before, and yet we still found cattle and signs of regular grazing activity *inside the former and still-fenced allotments*. Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.

I’m sure there are instances of illegal activity such as you described. However, from my experience, I don’t believe that these instances are "commonplace". — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

FISHING RELATED POST?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G. You never met a cattleman, period. —

Response:

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.  As enforcement by the government is almost nonexistant, that shouldn’t be surprising.  These common practices do constitute theft in anyone’s book.

Obviously, you’ve never spent any time in eastern Montana where a lot of grazing is done on BLM. I can recall many times having the BLM officer who monitors the grazing permits in our area come around to check grass conditions, number of cattle, water hole conditions, whether or not the ranchers are pulling there cows off public ground at the designated time, etc., etc., etc. I also know of ranchers (not many, though) who lost their grazing permits (and they should) for not following the stipulated conditions on their permit. This same scenario (the proper management of grazing permits) happens all across the American West on both National Forest System Lands and Bureau of Land Management lands. You,  sir, are clueless. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

|  What our outdoor wildlife inventories need is the total removal of all | livestock that steal their food and habitat. | | Why? | | Because wildlife is more valuable to a state’s economy as it is to the | Federal Economy. | | Allowing grazing on Federal (PUBLIC) lands to individual ranchers is stupid | economics. | | George G. | | | | | | | When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush | too I suppose. | — That’s why I advocate using funds collected from grazing federal lands be used to induce ranchers to use land that has already been converted to farming.  I’d rather convert from arable to grazing land, than forest/prairie to grazing land ! I don’t accept that it’s a choice between cattle & tourists – it’s more of a choice between cattle & migrants. But if we convince ranchers to move East onto arable land, we come closer to both protecting our fragile environments AND providing beef at competitive prices (compared to Argentinean beef). P.S. I remember paying $9 a pound for beef in the UK – beef was one of the most expensive forms of meat. But now I pay $9 a pound for Stilton cheese instead (I paid $3-4 a pound for Stilton in the UK).

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east… Most of the rural counties in Oregon are loosing population, and it was several years ago when I heard a statistic that 90% of the rural landowners were age 60 or greater. I don’t know how true the 90% stat is, but it does appear rural america is dwindling for *many* reasons. Though I consider myself an environmentalists, and often see the need for action *now*, I also recognize that there are more powerful long-term changes occuring in the US such as rural depopulation, and often think that there is an opportunity for environmentalists and landowners to accept this trend (rather than force it), and see ways to make it positive. Case in point – I could spend lots of time going after grazing issues, or I could spend lots of time understanding which landowners are wanting to sell off (because their kids aren’t following in their footsteps) and seeing how to move that land into less intensive uses.

That approach is far too thoughtful and intelligent for the hard core greenies to comprehend, let alone follow.

Response:

  When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose.

Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G.

Response:

Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past?

Boy, George, are you living in the netherworld if you think ranchers have ANY influence on the retail price of beef. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

What’s to do with FISHING anyways?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Boy, George, are you living in the netherworld if you think ranchers have ANY influence on the retail price of beef. What, are you suggesting that both ends are getting screwed by the large corporations in the middle? How un-American! Jon.

Response:

<When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. What if some of us don’t bother to eat that brown shit?

Response:

If it’s brown – you’re cooking it wrong !

| <When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush | too I suppose. | | What if some of us don’t bother to eat that brown shit?

Response:

It’s "If it’s brown it’s down."  Food from grist for the mill. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -If it’s brown – you’re cooking it wrong ! | <When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush | too I suppose. | | What if some of us don’t bother to eat that brown shit?

Response:

  When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother.

christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G.

You don’t have to like them, you have that right, but they are not stealing anything. As long as they have grazing permits it is legal.

Response:

I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother?

In this country, you are entitled to your own opinion…. even when it’s an incorrect one. Maybe if you’d actually get out there and meet a real cattleman, you’d change your tune. George– This is Cindy… Brian’s wife writing now.  I cannot believe your comments regarding ranchers/cattlemen ripping off the consumer.  I grew up in Eastern Montana on a small ranch.  My father received 70-90 cents per pound for his calves sold every fall.  This fall the price given to cattlemen for their calves is still 70-75 cents per pound.  Not much of a raise over the past 20 years.  Your accusations against the ranchers holds no water.  You are basically talking out of your rear-end.  If you would do some research and cared about your country, you would see that the family ranches are unable to support their families.  Any help we can give the ranchers in the use of public lands is money put back into our economy and assistance to families who are trying to make a living providing food for your table.  And just in case you are a vegetarian, don’t forget those ranchers who graze cattle on public land can then use the land they own to grow grain and barley for your bread.  Don’t be such a twit. Boy, George… did you ever step in it!! When Cindy reads over my shoulder and kicks me off the keyboard…. well, you get the drift. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana www.diamondnoutfitters.com

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – When you’re paying $9 a pound for beef you’ll be blaming that on Bush too I suppose. Getting screwed by Ranchers must stop.  When did YOU ever get a discount on a pound of beef for letting them steal grass and graze and destroying habitat in the past? Never? Your right!! Mr.G. You’re getting the lower price right now.  Jesus why do I even bother. christ.  I never met a cattleman who stole America’s grass lands and graze that I liked.  You’re right. Why should a nobody lbother? Mr.G. You don’t have to like them, you have that right, but they are not stealing anything. As long as they have grazing permits it is legal.

Actually grazing more animals than are allowed under the permit and grazing outside the boundaries of the permit are commonplace.  As enforcement by the government is almost nonexistant, that shouldn’t be surprising.  These common practices do constitute theft in anyone’s book. Jon

Response:

I was listening to a recent NPR program, discussing the problems of depopulation in rural communities back east – sorry, can’t remember the exact state, possibly one of the Dakotas. The program talked about how more people are getting college education and moving away to city jobs, leaving rural life. As a result some farmers are converting their land back to prairie. What little I know of the Eastern states, I’d guess this is some pretty decent farm land being lost.  I also recently read about farm land in Wisconsin being converted back to forest. I know that here in the Southwest, we are enduring one of the worst droughts ever. Phoenix has had just 2.24 inches of rain this year, and may get no more rain until February or March. People are leaving the East and moving out West in huge numbers, and so people & agriculture are competing for many natural resources. So, it doesn’t sound so bad to me, when  "Hard-line environmentalists" are simply helping to maximize the reward to the taxpayers, from the business use of  Federal land. In a free market economy the cost for federal grazing rights should b e"all the market will bear". I know that there is an argument that this policy will reduce domestic beef production & increase imports. Well……perhaps we should consider the most efficient way this country feeds its’self. As a taxpayer and an eater, I want the cheapest (safe) beef I can get. This allows me to spend more of my income on other (US-made) products. It’s a tough life being a farmer. My grandfather was a successful farmer in England. He changed & correctly predicted the trends and made a profit – he didn’t need subsidies. He changed a farm that was widely diversified (sugarbeet, chickens, barley & milk, were just some of the products) to a farm that was specialized – he was one of the first in the area to see the demand for oil seed rape. As a farmer it doesn’t seem fair that a successful way of life is being changed. But all forms of business change over time – including farming.

|         www.sfgate.com        Return to regular view | In the old West, a tense showdown over federal lands | JIM CARLTON, The Wall Street Journal | Monday, November 11, 2002 |

Question:

I’m a little confused by how a braided loop failure could cause the loss of a fly line, unless you use a loop-to-loop connection between your line and backing.

Actually, I use them there too. I can see if you didn’t fasten it on good it could get pushed off by a guide as the line went into the backing. I use thread and Aquaseal to fasten the end of the connector on instead of the shrink tubing partly for that reason. — Charlie…

Response:

Hello Dave, A pretty standard way to connect leaders to floating freshwater fly lines is to needle-nail knot on a butt section of mono first. The section should be around 2/3 the diameter of the end of your fly line and at least the same diameter of the butt of the tapered leader being used. Averagely this is 25# mono that is around .021", but this can vary depending on the diameter of the end or point of the floating line used. I have seen butts used from 6" to 18" but a foot long is pretty average. Sunset "Amnesia" shooting line, Hal Janssen "Leader Control" (clear Amnesia) or Maxima "Ultra Green" are some popular mono around here for fresh water butts. Some will put a small perfection loop on the end of the butt or some will use a 3 or 4 turn blood knot to attach their knotless tapered leader. Your local fly shop should be able to show you how this is done. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After hearing lots of negative comments about the loop connectors that come with some lines (Orvis), and noticing that my line tips tend to sink a bit, I’ve decided to experiment and replace the loop connectors with a short length of nail-knotted leader ending in a small loop. The question:  What length, weight, type, even brands of leaders would be best for this?  I’m sure the answer is related to the weight and type of flyline the leader is being attached to — I’d be making this changeover on the following: Orvis wf 5 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating bass line. Thanks for your help! Dave

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After hearing lots of negative comments about the loop connectors that come with some lines (Orvis), and noticing that my line tips tend to sink a bit, I’ve decided to experiment and replace the loop connectors with a short length of nail-knotted leader ending in a small loop. The question:  What length, weight, type, even brands of leaders would be best for this?  I’m sure the answer is related to the weight and type of flyline the leader is being attached to — I’d be making this changeover on the following: Orvis wf 5 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating bass line. Thanks for your help! Dave I use a nail knot to tie my leader directly to the fly line. I hate the braided loops. Particularly after after one failed and I lost a fly line and a striper size XXL. Paul

I’m a little confused by how a braided loop failure could cause the loss of a fly line, unless you use a loop-to-loop connection between your line and backing. — Scott Reverse first field of address to reply

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [snip] I use a nail knot to tie my leader directly to the fly line. I hate the braided loops. Particularly after after one failed and I lost a fly line and a striper size XXL. Paul I’m a little confused by how a braided loop failure could cause the loss of a fly line, unless you use a loop-to-loop connection between your line and backing.

It was a shooting head to running line. The fish decided it was too close to the boat. It took off and on the way throught the guides the shrink tube that keeps the braid from fraying must have hit a guide that released the tension on the braid and bye bye fish and shooting head. I went home and cut off all the braided loops from all my lines and tied nail knots on all leader and backing to fly line connections. Haven’t had a problem in the 9 years since I did that. Paul

Response:

I did exactly that . . . I got rid of the braided connectors and went to the mono nail knot/perfection loop. Mine is about 4 inches in length as attached. I used the backend of a leader that I commonly use. I figured it should be similar to the leader material in weight and make up, so I used one! At this point, I wont go back to the braided connectors. I did it to the following: Orvis Wonderline WF 5wt SA Mastery Series GPX WF 5wt I am also planning on using this method on my 7wt when I get the rod built!! Wayne says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After hearing lots of negative comments about the loop connectors that come with some lines (Orvis), and noticing that my line tips tend to sink a bit, I’ve decided to experiment and replace the loop connectors with a short length of nail-knotted leader ending in a small loop. The question:  What length, weight, type, even brands of leaders would be best for this?  I’m sure the answer is related to the weight and type of flyline the leader is being attached to — I’d be making this changeover on the following: Orvis wf 5 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating bass line. Thanks for your help! Dave

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – After hearing lots of negative comments about the loop connectors that come with some lines (Orvis), and noticing that my line tips tend to sink a bit, I’ve decided to experiment and replace the loop connectors with a short length of nail-knotted leader ending in a small loop. The question:  What length, weight, type, even brands of leaders would be best for this?  I’m sure the answer is related to the weight and type of flyline the leader is being attached to — I’d be making this changeover on the following: Orvis wf 5 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating bass line. Thanks for your help! Dave

I use a nail knot to tie my leader directly to the fly line. I hate the braided loops. Particularly after after one failed and I lost a fly line and a striper size XXL. Paul

Response:

My floating lines are set up with braided loops and nail knotted mono/perfection loops on the sinking ones.  Braided loops can trap air and hold the tip of a sinking line up.  I once used one on a Type 5 sinktip only to see the belly two foot down and the tip on the surface.  Since then all sinking lines have been mono only.  As Ken mentioned, they should be as short as practical and roughly  two thirds the thickness of the tip or about mid way in thickness between the leader butt and line tip. All braided loops will fail if they are not installed properly.  The end of the floating fly line should be sealed with glue to prevent the ingress of water that would cause the tip to sink.  The tip of the line should be inserted fully into the sleeve and as far as possible into the doubled over section of the loop.  A nail knot should be tied on the opposite end of the sleeve, securing it to the line.  The heat shrink tubing should be placed over the knot and the end of the sleeve to prevent fraying as well as smoothing its passage through the guides.  Glue shouldn’t be used on the sleeve as it can make it brittle and prone to breakage.  Braided loops should be periodically checked for fraying. Both loop system can fail, even when well installed.  Enough pressure can break a braided loop, pull a nail knot off the line, or break a perfection loop.  The trick is to make sure that the transition loop isn’t the weakest link.  A properly installed braided loop provide superior turnover due to their inherent stiffness when properly installed and are especially suited to use with heavy sinking leaders like Airflo Polyleaders.  Their tendency to float helps keep the tips of floating lines up plus they can also serve as strike indicators if you use a bright coloured heat shrink tube. HTH Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://www.mountaincable.net/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Bill, After a phone conversation with your staff about 3 weeks ago, I went to the nail knot/surgeon’s or perfection loop set-up for all my saltwater rigs.  I also shortened my Orvis 38 ft. shooting head to 30 ft. per their suggestion and casting improved tremendously.  I kept trying to buy some shooting heads from those guys and they insisted I check locally to see what was being used successfully.  I have to say they ended up getting me steered in the right directions on a number of saltwater options.  I would suggest though, that east coast fishing setups  can be related to west coast fishing setups through water temperatures. Might broaden your sales base?? — Wayne To Fish is Human…To Release Divine!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello Dave, A pretty standard way to connect leaders to floating freshwater fly lines is to needle-nail knot on a butt section of mono first. The section should be around 2/3 the diameter of the end of your fly line and at least the same diameter of the butt of the tapered leader being used. Averagely this is 25# mono that is around .021", but this can vary depending on the diameter of the end or point of the floating line used. I have seen butts used from 6" to 18" but a foot long is pretty average. Sunset "Amnesia" shooting line, Hal Janssen "Leader Control" (clear Amnesia) or Maxima "Ultra Green" are some popular mono around here for fresh water butts. Some will put a small perfection loop on the end of the butt or some will use a 3 or 4 turn blood knot to attach their knotless tapered leader. Your local fly shop should be able to show you how this is done. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

Response:

After hearing lots of negative comments about the loop connectors that come with some lines (Orvis), and noticing that my line tips tend to sink a bit, I’ve decided to experiment and replace the loop connectors with a short length of nail-knotted leader ending in a small loop. The question:  What length, weight, type, even brands of leaders would be best for this?  I’m sure the answer is related to the weight and type of flyline the leader is being attached to — I’d be making this changeover on the following: Orvis wf 5 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating trout line Wonderline wf 6 wt floating bass line. Thanks for your help! Dave

Response:

… The question:  What length, weight, type, even brands of leaders would be best for this?  …

I use the nail knot/perfection loop setup on my 5wts. I like Orvis Super Strong and find that .019 matches up with my 5wt lines. Most anything in the range of .017 to .021 would work. As for the length, I make it as short as  I possibly can and still tie a perfection loop. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Question:

Planning  a family trip with 2 kids (aged 5 & 7) and my wife during early December. We plan to start  off from Adelaide and fly back from Melbourne. Planning to hire a car and stay in the local B&Bs. Looking for suggestions, ideas or itinerary and advices.

Response:

Planning  a family trip with 2 kids (aged 5 & 7) and my wife during early December. We plan to start  off from Adelaide and fly back from Melbourne. Planning to hire a car and stay in the local B&Bs. Looking for suggestions, ideas or itinerary and advices.

Don’t miss the Great Ocean Road. http://www.greatoceanroad.org/ My kids love the Adventure Playground in Warrnambool. Daniel — Daniel Bowen, Melbourne, Australia Visiting Australia FAQ http://www.custard.net.au/australia/

Response:

Planning  a family trip with 2 kids (aged 5 & 7) and my wife during early December. We plan to start  off from Adelaide and fly back from Melbourne. Planning to hire a car and stay in the local B&Bs. Looking for suggestions, ideas or itinerary and advices.

That’s plenty of time.  As Daniel mentioned, don’t miss the Great Ocean Road.  You should also perhaps start by taking a run through the Flinders Ranges, perhaps as far up as Wilpena Pound.  A lot of people bag on Port Augusta but I quite like the place and there are some things that would be of interest to the kiddies – the Wadlata centre is pretty good (although the souvis are pretty pricey and poor value) and the Arid Lands Botanic Centre (hope I have that name right) is worth a squint if you’re into that sort of thing.  Spencer Gulf has some great sailing and fishing (check what’s in season, I’ve not been in December, yet).  The French Hot Bread place on Commercial St. is the best in the country. From there, I would head back down and across, taking the G.O.R.; then go up into the goldfields (Ballarat, Bendigo) which have theme areas and rebuilt "old time" streets, etc. which the kids should enjoy. Finally, keep a few days for each city.  I’m not normally a city person, but Adelaide does have some charms which take some time to grow on you (once you get used to all the churches).  Take a tram to Glenelg and spend some time on the beach (hopefully all that construction is finished by now) and be sure to take in the central market just off King William Square (at the other end of the tram).  With any luck (does anyone know?  I’m about a year out of date) the Don Bradman display will still be on in one of the buildings (library?) on North Tce. As for Melbourne, I haven’t spent enough time there yet to be knowledgeable about what’s the best use of time/best interest to kids but there will be lots.  It’s quite a charming city.  I’ll leave that to the natives. HTH

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Hi if you go to see the litle penguins at Phillip Island try to get a night at AMAZING THINGS for the kids it is not spectacular but like i said it is good for the kids. Walter from Belgium — Swagmanneke( walter caremans) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Planning  a family trip with 2 kids (aged 5 & 7) and my wife during early December. We plan to start  off from Adelaide and fly back from Melbourne. Planning to hire a car and stay in the local B&Bs. Looking for suggestions, ideas or itinerary and advices.

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in message As for Melbourne, I haven’t spent enough time there yet to be knowledgeable about what’s the best use of time/best interest to kids but there will be lots.  It’s quite a charming city.  I’ll leave that to the natives.

Depends what they like. Off the top of my head… – tram rides (especially if you don’t have trams in your part of the world) – museum and Scienceworks http://www.museum.vic.gov.au/ – Puffing Billy steam train http://www.puffingbilly.com.au/ – penguins at Phillip Island http://www.penguins.org.au/ – Healesville sanctuary (native animals) and Melbourne Zoo http://www.zoo.org.au/ and plenty of parks and gardens to explore. Try browsing around http://melbourne.citysearch.com.au/ Daniel — Daniel Bowen, Melbourne, Australia Visiting Australia FAQ http://www.custard.net.au/australia/

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Take your time on the Great Ocean Road.  It is a great view but you need time to enjoy it,  Don’t miss the twelve Apostles.   If you have time, check out Phillips Island and the penguin parade.  Phillips Island is on the opposite side of Melbourne from Adelaide. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Planning  a family trip with 2 kids (aged 5 & 7) and my wife during early December. We plan to start  off from Adelaide and fly back from Melbourne. Planning to hire a car and stay in the local B&Bs. Looking for suggestions, ideas or itinerary and advices. That’s plenty of time.  As Daniel mentioned, don’t miss the Great Ocean Road.  You should also perhaps start by taking a run through the Flinders Ranges, perhaps as far up as Wilpena Pound.  A lot of people bag on Port Augusta but I quite like the place and there are some things that would be of interest to the kiddies – the Wadlata centre is pretty good (although the souvis are pretty pricey and poor value) and the Arid Lands Botanic Centre (hope I have that name right) is worth a squint if you’re into that sort of thing.  Spencer Gulf has some great sailing and fishing (check what’s in season, I’ve not been in December, yet).  The French Hot Bread place on Commercial St. is the best in the country. From there, I would head back down and across, taking the G.O.R.; then go up into the goldfields (Ballarat, Bendigo) which have theme areas and rebuilt "old time" streets, etc. which the kids should enjoy. Finally, keep a few days for each city.  I’m not normally a city person, but Adelaide does have some charms which take some time to grow on you (once you get used to all the churches).  Take a tram to Glenelg and spend some time on the beach (hopefully all that construction is finished by now) and be sure to take in the central market just off King William Square (at the other end of the tram).  With any luck (does anyone know?  I’m about a year out of date) the Don Bradman display will still be on in one of the buildings (library?) on North Tce. As for Melbourne, I haven’t spent enough time there yet to be knowledgeable about what’s the best use of time/best interest to kids but there will be lots.  It’s quite a charming city.  I’ll leave that to the natives. HTH

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Question:

Heather might have said: Now when it comes to electrical cords hanging out of the car’s grill, I’m not so sure…

Now now <g we need them too, presuming you’re talking about us down here. And yes, both for diesels and gas jobs. On the other hand, the gas job I needed it for was a ‘62 Bug, in six volt.  Two oil warmers, a battery charger, and an old 25A ‘puter power supply tweaked from 5V to 6V, and that thing still wouldn’t start. The diesels I’ve owned did better, especially when threatened with ether. —

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes x-no-archive: yes Somehow I doubt that they believed you. Americans do know what humming birds look like. Now when it comes to electrical cords hanging out of the car’s grill, I’m not so sure… then you should’a seen them , when we showed then a magpie , and told them , cows fly . Oh get out! You’re pulling my leg. i’d love to , yes , i am . Oh good. I’m still on the turnip truck.

i like turnip if it’s done right .

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes Somehow I doubt that they believed you. Americans do know what humming birds look like. Now when it comes to electrical cords hanging out of the car’s grill, I’m not so sure… then you should’a seen them , when we showed then a magpie , and told them , cows fly . Oh get out! You’re pulling my leg.

i’d love to , yes , i am .

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Kaelwyn might have said: Alberta has a June and so do Saskatchewan, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Ontario, and Quebec.  That’s all the provinces I’ve been to I think, not sure if I was ever in BC.

Lucky. —

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes x-no-archive: yes x-no-archive: yes x-no-archive: yes % might have said: it’s 3:30 here and it will be getting dark in about just over an hour. it won’t get light again here untill 9:30 tomorrow morning it won’t get light here again ’til June because of all the clouds. you have a June … lucky I think you do too, that’s when the mosquito carry away cattle, yes?  Or is it bears that they carry away? Oh that reminds me. The mosquito is our provincial bird. (They say it’s the owl, but they are wrong.) Heather i told some americans , that humming birds were mousquitos when i guded in ontario OMG….HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! there was a feeder just outside the window , it was an american plan thing , we were all having breakfast by the window , just about to head out fishing OK. I’ll bite. And they said….? nothing , they just stared at the feeder Somehow I doubt that they believed you. Americans do know what humming birds look like. Now when it comes to electrical cords hanging out of the car’s grill, I’m not so sure…

then you should’a seen them , when we showed then a magpie , and told them , cows fly .

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – % might have said: the mosquitos carry on , the bears carry rifles I believe bears should be armed. I think they all are. I’ve never met one, but if I did? I’d use ‘Sir’ and "Ma’am" a lot I think. — i’ve only ever asked in a reall begging voice ,

go away bear , please just go away , and tried to look big .

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – % might have said: i told some americans , that humming birds were mousquitos when i guded in ontario No matter where those Americans came from, I think that they believed you. I think you can tell a tale, and make it sound not merely good, but believable. That is a talent, I think. —

well , they looked sort’a 50 / 50 in their belief , but they put on alot of bug repelent before we headed out .

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% might have said: i told some americans , that humming birds were mousquitos when i guded in ontario

No matter where those Americans came from, I think that they believed you. I think you can tell a tale, and make it sound not merely good, but believable. That is a talent, I think. —

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% might have said: the mosquitos carry on , the bears carry rifles

I believe bears should be armed. I think they all are. I’ve never met one, but if I did? I’d use ‘Sir’ and "Ma’am" a lot I think. —

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes x-no-archive: yes x-no-archive: yes % might have said: it’s 3:30 here and it will be getting dark in about just over an hour. it won’t get light again here untill 9:30 tomorrow morning it won’t get light here again ’til June because of all the clouds. you have a June … lucky I think you do too, that’s when the mosquito carry away cattle, yes?  Or is it bears that they carry away? Oh that reminds me. The mosquito is our provincial bird. (They say it’s the owl, but they are wrong.) Heather i told some americans , that humming birds were mousquitos when i guded in ontario OMG….HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! there was a feeder just outside the window , it was an american plan thing , we were all having breakfast by the window , just about to head out fishing OK. I’ll bite. And they said….?

nothing , they just stared at the feeder

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes x-no-archive: yes % might have said: it’s 3:30 here and it will be getting dark in about just over an hour. it won’t get light again here untill 9:30 tomorrow morning it won’t get light here again ’til June because of all the clouds. you have a June … lucky I think you do too, that’s when the mosquito carry away cattle, yes?  Or is it bears that they carry away? Oh that reminds me. The mosquito is our provincial bird. (They say it’s the owl, but they are wrong.) Heather i told some americans , that humming birds were mousquitos when i guded in ontario OMG….HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

there was a feeder just outside the window , it was an american plan thing , we were all having breakfast by the window , just about to head out fishing

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – % might have said: it’s 3:30 here and it will be getting dark in about just over an hour. it won’t get light again here untill 9:30 tomorrow morning it won’t get light here again ’til June because of all the clouds. you have a June … lucky I think you do too, that’s when the mosquito carry away cattle, yes?  Or is it bears that they carry away? —

the mosquitos carry on , the bears carry rifles

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – x-no-archive: yes % might have said: it’s 3:30 here and it will be getting dark in about just over an hour. it won’t get light again here untill 9:30 tomorrow morning it won’t get light here again ’til June because of all the clouds. you have a June … lucky I think you do too, that’s when the mosquito carry away cattle, yes?  Or is it bears that they carry away? Oh that reminds me. The mosquito is our provincial bird. (They say it’s the owl, but they are wrong.) Heather

i told some americans , that humming birds were mousquitos when i guded in ontario

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% might have said: it’s 3:30 here and it will be getting dark in about just over an hour. it won’t get light again here untill 9:30 tomorrow morning it won’t get light here again ’til June because of all the clouds. you have a June … lucky

I think you do too, that’s when the mosquito carry away cattle, yes?  Or is it bears that they carry away? —

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Alberta has a June and so do Saskatchewan, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Ontario, and Quebec.  That’s all the provinces I’ve been to I think, not sure if I was ever in BC. well there’s no June here , we kicked her out , for conduct unbecoming a month

What did you replace her with?

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Alberta has a June and so do Saskatchewan, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Ontario, and Quebec.  That’s all the provinces I’ve been to I think, not sure if I was ever in BC. well there’s no June here , we kicked her out , for conduct unbecoming a month What did you replace her with?

heroin

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not in B.C. , Toronto might have a June, all we get is a wet July , and the 4th means nothing Alberta has a June and so do Saskatchewan, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Ontario, and Quebec.  That’s all the provinces I’ve been to I think, not sure if I was ever in BC.

well there’s no June here , we kicked her out , for conduct unbecoming a month

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not in B.C. , Toronto might have a June, all we get is a wet July , and the 4th means nothing

Alberta has a June and so do Saskatchewan, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Ontario, and Quebec.  That’s all the provinces I’ve been to I think, not sure if I was ever in BC.

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you have a June … lucky you have a June too.  I know you do cause I been to Canada in June.

not in B.C. , Toronto might have a June, all we get is a wet July , and the 4th means nothing

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you have a June … lucky

you have a June too.  I know you do cause I been to Canada in June.

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it’s 3:30 here and it will be getting dark in about just over an hour. it won’t get light again here untill 9:30 tomorrow morning it won’t get light here again ’til June because of all the clouds.

you have a June … lucky

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it’s 3:30 here and it will be getting dark in about just over an hour. it won’t get light again here untill 9:30 tomorrow morning

it won’t get light here again ’til June because of all the clouds.

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because , in the winter time , i only get six hours of daylight it’s 3:30 here and it will be getting dark in about just over an hour.

it won’t get light again here untill 9:30 tomorrow morning

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because , in the winter time , i only get six hours of daylight

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because , in the winter time , i only get six hours of daylight

it’s 3:30 here and it will be getting dark in about just over an hour.

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Question:

Being a new guy here, I don’t know shit…(get out the keyboard soap) but evidently Mikey must live in a coutry where they charge by the minute for phones and access….without experimenting until my brain slips a cog (happens often-sorry) wouldn’t it be possible to download this newsgroup on a regular basis, zip the files and e-mail them to him?? wouldn’t that save him a few bucks  (400 is much more than a few)….?

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Left for the following reasons (in order): 1. Spam 2. Indian Rights 3. USA vs. Brits 4. Nasty emails vis-a-vis #2 & 3 5. #1-3 cost him over $400 last month. Says he doubts that he will return. — Ken Fortenberry I started the USA vs Brits thread as an attempt to lighten the mood of the posts that were being made at that particular time.

Actually, a Brit named Tony Deacon started the whole thing (not that particular thread) with a totally gratuitous insult of American culture. When someone insults a country on Usenet you can expect angry replies, and rightly so. The "Indian Rights" thing started when someone posted a claim that commercial fishing, not the Lower Snake dams, was responsible for the decline of the Snake River salmon, and that morphed into Indian Rights. A thread that to one person is nothing but off-topic rants might be very interesting to someone else. I found the Indian Rights thread to have value, once you got past the race baiting, but I can see why a European might get bored by it. Some Europeans seem miffed that Usenet is dominated by Yanks. Too bad. Let them post some European-specific stuff. I won’t mind at all. I thought Mike Connor changed his telephone to a flat-rate service. Why the $400? It’s really no one’s responsibility in ROFF to keep Mike’s or anyone else’s Usenet-related bills down. Hell, we can reduce them to nearly zero by just shutting down the whole thing. I hope MC returns. I liked some of his doggerel verse and his prose fiction, he obviously knows a lot about many kinds of fishing, he added a welcome and needed European perspective to ROFF, and he’s generally a very smart and creative person. But I’m not going to lose any sleep over it. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Actually, a Brit named Tony Deacon started the whole thing (not that particular thread) with a totally gratuitous insult of American culture.

The fact of the matter is it started off as a joke.  Tony and I were joking around,at least that was the impression that I got.  Some people took this a little too serious and then the thread ended up with threats.  I think that is what really pissed Mike off. Believe me RW, I am not losing any sleep over this either.  It does bother me because Mike was a valuable source of knowledge.  I was constantly amazed at the amount of info that man had locked in his brain housing group.  The part that I liked most was that he didn’t try and make you feel stupid about it either. I sent Mike an email once expressing my appreciation for his help on several things I had questions with.  Mike would typically point me in the direction so that I could research the topic on my own and give me a few pointers of his own.  It was always short, helpful and contributed greatly to my own knowledge base. I am not saying that Mike C was the only person with lots of knowledge on a broad variety of topics, but he was a class act that is going to be missed by those who ask lots of questions around here.  Not to mention his writings….. Warren

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It won’t be the same as having him on ROFF, but he does write a column and have a chat  group on "Fly Anglers on Line" http://www.flyanglersonline.com/ Ernie Harrison See Ernie’s Fly-Fishing Stuff:   http://home.pacbell.net/ernie2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, a Brit named Tony Deacon started the whole thing (not that particular thread) with a totally gratuitous insult of American culture. The fact of the matter is it started off as a joke.  Tony and I were joking around,at least that was the impression that I got.  Some people took this a little too serious and then the thread ended up with threats.  I think that is what really pissed Mike off. Believe me RW, I am not losing any sleep over this either.  It does bother me because Mike was a valuable source of knowledge.  I was constantly amazed at the amount of info that man had locked in his brain housing group.  The part that I liked most was that he didn’t try and make you feel stupid about it either. I sent Mike an email once expressing my appreciation for his help on several things I had questions with.  Mike would typically point me in the direction so that I could research the topic on my own and give me a few pointers of his own.  It was always short, helpful and contributed greatly to my own knowledge base. I am not saying that Mike C was the only person with lots of knowledge on a broad variety of topics, but he was a class act that is going to be missed by those who ask lots of questions around here.  Not to mention his writings….. Warren

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        have i missed something here?  where the hell has connor gone? vacation?  work?  pissed?  under arrest? wayno

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        have i missed something here?  where the hell has connor gone? vacation?  work?  pissed?  under arrest?

Left for the following reasons (in order): 1. Spam 2. Indian Rights 3. USA vs. Brits 4. Nasty emails vis-a-vis #2 & 3 5. #1-3 cost him over $400 last month. Says he doubts that he will return. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 3 – Tar Heels 1

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Says he doubts that he will return. — Ken Fortenberry

What a shame.  One of the more enjoyable personalities on ROFF, IMO.  Always enjoyed his stories. Keith Brewster

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Left for the following reasons (in order): 1. Spam 2. Indian Rights 3. USA vs. Brits 4. Nasty emails vis-a-vis #2 & 3 5. #1-3 cost him over $400 last month. Says he doubts that he will return. — Ken Fortenberry

I started the USA vs Brits thread as an attempt to lighten the mood of the posts that were being made at that particular time. I in no way meant to hurt anybody’s feelings and if you look at the original post I think that is evident.  Mike was usually the first one  that responded to me when I would post a question and I will surely miss him if he is truly gone. Mike, if you were offended in any way by my USA vs Brit post, I apologize. Tim

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Could it possibly be that he is busy with personal things? He’ll be back.  He’s just busy.  Mike is not the type of man that would go away in a snit without saying good-bye. I miss him but will not help to clutter up his mail box by e-mailing him.  Just give him a little room, folks.   Dave LaCourse

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He told me the same in an email over the weekend.  I surmised that he is very busy as well, but the tone of his message didn’t leave me with the impression that he was interested in returning to this happy band. Tom — Tom Brown The Signal Group Wake Forest, NC It makes no difference what men think of war, said the judge. War endures. As well ask men what they think of stone.  War was always here.  Before man was, war waited for him.  The ultimate trade awaiting the ultimate practitioner.                                                 Cormac McCarthy, Blood Meridian – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Left for the following reasons (in order): 1. Spam 2. Indian Rights 3. USA vs. Brits 4. Nasty emails vis-a-vis #2 & 3 5. #1-3 cost him over $400 last month. Says he doubts that he will return. — Ken Fortenberry Illini 3 – Tar Heels 1

Response:

He told me the same in an email over the weekend.  I surmised that he is very busy as well, but the tone of his message didn’t leave me with the impression that he was interested in returning to this happy band.

What a whimp. He leaves, we grieves, and goze limp. He didn’t say bye… I wonder why… Not gonna cry… just wonder why. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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… He didn’t say bye… I wonder why…

He’s a class act, that’s why. If one decides to filter another poster or unsubscribe from a newsgroup one simply does so. No whiny recriminations, wounded, emotional farewells or parting shots necessary or appropriate. Mike’s last post was titled "Guilty". It was eloquent, and as appropriate a farewell as I’ve seen. — Ken Fortenberry

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What a whimp. He leaves, we grieves, and goze limp. He didn’t say bye… I wonder why… Not gonna cry… just wonder why. Your pal, "Guilt replaced the creel…"

Mike evidently never considered it necessary to remind anyone on this group that he was "Your pal," and he was right.  Your constant reminder notwithstanding I suspect few will miss you as much as we will Mike. "Guilt debased the meal…"

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -What a whimp. He leaves, we grieves, and goze limp. He didn’t say bye… I wonder why… Not gonna cry… just wonder why. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…"

He did say bye, He did say why, He just didn’t serve it up Like yesterday’s pie. Peter

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He didn’t say bye…

I think it was when you were off sulking the latest time. — Charlie…

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Good one Charlie Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – He didn’t say bye… I think it was when you were off sulking the latest time. — Charlie…

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EEEHH   GADS! Come back Mikey – all other verse is worthless without ye! RalphH

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What a whimp. He leaves, we grieves, and goze limp. He didn’t say bye… I wonder why… Not gonna cry… just wonder why. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "A Cash Flow Runs Through It…" "Guilt replaced the creel…" He did say bye, He did say why, He just didn’t serve it up Like yesterday’s pie. Peter

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If it is indeed true that Mike has left for the reasons listed below, then I’m inclined to think that the whole "ROFF is Darwinian" concept isn’t as great as some have made it out to be. I for one thought Mike’s posts were a rare species worth protecting from extinction. Steve Zimmerman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Left for the following reasons (in order): 1. Spam 2. Indian Rights 3. USA vs. Brits 4. Nasty emails vis-a-vis #2 & 3 5. #1-3 cost him over $400 last month. Says he doubts that he will return.

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Bullseye! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What a whimp. He leaves, we grieves, and goze limp. He didn’t say bye… I wonder why… Not gonna cry… just wonder why. Your pal, "Guilt replaced the creel…" Mike evidently never considered it necessary to remind anyone on this group that he was "Your pal," and he was right.  Your constant reminder notwithstanding I suspect few will miss you as much as we will Mike. "Guilt debased the meal…"

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Question:

I may be in the Minneapolis area for a few days some time this fall. Any recommendations for fly fishing within three or four hours of Minneapolis (trout, bass, whatever, as long as it takes a fly)? If I have a choice, what would be the best time to go? Email or post is fine. Thanks in advance. Bill S.            

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I may be in the Minneapolis area for a few days some time this fall. Any recommendations for fly fishing within three or four hours of Minneapolis (trout, bass, whatever, as long as it takes a fly)? If I have a choice, what would be the best time to go? Email or post is fine. Thanks in advance. Bill S.

Bill, A good time to come! If you come before the season closes (Sept. 30th) You have your choice of thousands of "Spots". I’d recommend the Whitewater River Watershed south of Minneapolis, between Rochester and Winona. Stop at the State Park there and ask the naturalists for advise, or at the fly shops in Rochester ("Burger Brothers" for expl) Wisconsin has an overwhelming number of rivers to choose from also. When you buy the WI liscense, you get fabulous pamphlets for directions. I wish MN was as good. They have materials, but they don’t hand them out with the ticket. I live in Duluth, and fall is great for Brookies all over the place. I can catch ‘em right in town, But I like the drive to "Get away" and find some solitude. My favorite is the Brule River in WI. (Boise Brule, officially). It is an honest, naturally reproductive, trout stream. Late Sept. is closing there too. Finally, if your visit is after Sept. 30th, come to Duluth. Steelhead will be running up from Lake Superior. Fall Salmon too. Give me an E-mail if you feel like driving north, I can point out some spots on the map for you. Have fun! Jim Wrobleski

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I may be in the Minneapolis area for a few days some time this fall. Any recommendations for fly fishing within three or four hours of Minneapolis (trout, bass, whatever, as long as it takes a fly)? If I have a choice, what would be the best time to go? Email or post is fine. Thanks in advance. Bill S. Bill, A good time to come! If you come before the season closes (Sept. 30th) You have your choice of thousands of "Spots". I’d recommend the Whitewater River Watershed south of Minneapolis, between Rochester and Winona. Stop at the State Park there and ask the naturalists for advise, or at the fly shops in Rochester ("Burger Brothers" for expl) Wisconsin has an overwhelming number of rivers to choose from also. When you buy the WI liscense, you get fabulous pamphlets for directions. I wish MN was as good. They have materials, but they don’t hand them out with the ticket. I live in Duluth, and fall is great for Brookies all over the place. I can catch ‘em right in town, But I like the drive to "Get away" and find some solitude. My favorite is the Brule River in WI. (Boise Brule, officially). It is an honest, naturally reproductive, trout stream. Late Sept. is closing there too. Finally, if your visit is after Sept. 30th, come to Duluth. Steelhead will be running up from Lake Superior. Fall Salmon too. Give me an E-mail if you feel like driving north, I can point out some spots on the map for you. Have fun! Jim Wrobleski

Good info Jim, I would add the Namakogen (sp?) in Northwest WI. Vince

Response:

I may be in the Minneapolis area for a few days some time this fall. Any recommendations for fly fishing within three or four hours of Minneapolis (trout, bass, whatever, as long as it takes a fly)? If I have a choice, what would be the best time to go? Email or post is fine. Thanks in advance. Bill S.  

        I would recommend that you contact Dennis Graupe at the Spring Creek Angler in Coon Valley WI. (608-452-3430). Tell him that John Myers sent you. Note that the WI season closes 9/30/96.                                 j.m.          

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Question:

A friend of mine needs some information on fly fishing the Chesapeake, near the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel. He wants to know if anyone knows any good spots, how to access them, what flies to use, etc. Any information on guide services in the area would also be appreciated. Thanks!

Try Anglers Sport Center (410) 252-0556 in Annapolis, Tochtermans in Baltimore is at (410) 522-4237, Wolfs (410) 378-1112 in Ellicott City or The Fisherman’s Edge (Joe Bruce) is at (410) 719-7999 Catonsville.

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A friend of mine needs some information on fly fishing the Chesapeake, near the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel. He wants to know if anyone knows any good spots, how to access them, what flies to use, etc. Any information on guide services in the area would also be appreciated. Thanks!

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Question:

        Hello, flyfishers.  I have been lucky enough to land a job working in the Yosemite Backcountry as a highcamp helper.  I was wondering where there are good places to flyfish.  Most likely I will be working at Vogelsang or Sunrise.  I know there are many lakes up in the backcountry that were stocked a while back, and while the ones that are easily accessible are fished out, the ones that are hard to get to have some good fishing (so i hear).         I am looking for these hard to reach spots of seclusion and good fishing.  My whole introduction to the sport revolves around my job this summer at Yosemite, so if there isn’t any good fishing for me this summer, I will be very sad.  So, please tell me there are still fish in Yosemite.  As soon as I get up there, I’m going to try to get in tight with the rangers and maybe they can help me find places. Regards, George C. — *George M. Chan                         * "Yea, but bacon tastes good,  * *                                       *                               *

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Yes there is great flyrodding in the Yosemite back country. 2 books to have with you. Flyfishing the Sierras and Tom Stienstras fishing in California.

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George    The person who recommended Tom Stienstra’s book is exactly right.   That is the place to look.  However, Tom seems to think that fishing at Yosemite isn’t very good because the lakes up there haven’t been stocked since some time in the 80’s.  He’s pretty pessimistic about fishing Yosemite but let us know if you find some spots that have fish in them.    Good Luck    Dennis Alexander

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Question:

: I was browsing around a couple weeks ago at the local Wal-mart and : came across "Spider Wire" – a braided Spectra fishing line. I’ve also : come across some in a Netcraft catalog – where its significantly : cheaper ($11-16 for 150 yards). [...] : I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. : No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to : use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing [...] I have had much success on model rockets to use the pre-assembled fishing leaders that you find at Walmart, Kmart, etc.  Usually has 12" small diameter wire, with connector on one end, and snap swivel on the other.  Either mount them under a centering ring if length permits, or epoxy them to the airframe wall.  I suggest making the swivel about even with top of airframe to minimize zippering the body tube, but I’ve had good luck with letting them hang out.  Attach shock cord to swivel end of the leader. —          /       Lee Reep                    voice: 303/229-2010     /  /~~  /   Fort Collins, Colorado                TRA 2007

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Anyhow.. Here is number you call to get a Netcraft catalog.         1-800-638-2723 The address is:         Netcraft         2800 Tremainsville Road,         Toledo, OH 43613 Incidentally, besides the Spectra, they have a huge variety of other stuff that we’d all be interested in: snaps and swivels, steel leader wire, crimping sleeves, tools, carbon fiber fishing rod blanks, (small) Cyalume sticks (work great for low altitude rockets at night, but I’d use the larger 4 inchers for anything that goes above 200 feet), threads and line of all descriptions, storage boxes, etc. etc. Incidentally.. last night I was at the Wal Mart again and found another brand of Spectra line. The brand was "Lynch line". It came in test weights to 80 pounds and as little as 35 pounds. The 35# stuff, though, was the same diameter as the Spider Wire 50# test – .014". It was quite a bit cheaper than the Spider Wire. — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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: Yesterday I was at the first (for me) contest of the season. I got a : kill off someone by snagging his streamer with my inboard leading : edge. Problem was the string the management supplies was a little too : think – it broke both spars and tore off half the inboard wing!  ^^^^^ Alright.  Make up your mind.  Thin or Thick.  (It could go either way.)

It was rope jr. ^_^;; Looks like I’m going to have to learn to splice wings.. my planes usually get thrown away (actually I have 15-20 moldering away in a closet ^_^;;) after getting damaged (usually because I come up with new hotter designs) but this one was the second newest one in my fleet! — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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: Yesterday I was at the first (for me) contest of the season. I got a : kill off someone by snagging his streamer with my inboard leading : edge. Problem was the string the management supplies was a little too : think – it broke both spars and tore off half the inboard wing!   ^^^^^ Alright.  Make up your mind.  Thin or Thick.  (It could go either way.) —

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What exactly is "parachute cord"? You don’t mean the stuff for full-size parachutes, do you? Incidentally, I hear that Kevlar lines need sleeving, too. I guess I’m showing my age by calling it that.  The stuff was developed for that use.  It comes in several diameters and you want the stuff that IS, indeed, useed in small parachutes (drag chutes).    People also use parachute cord to make "slinkies".  "Slinkies" are short  lengths of parachute cord stuffed with lead (preferably steel…) shot,  used as substitutes for sinkers/split shot in drift-fishing rivers/streams  with snaggy bottoms.  Slinkies are less prone to snagging.

So is Parachute Cord hollow, or do you have to pull the inner filler out? All the braided line I’ve seen has an inner core. What diameter are we talking about for sleeving? I imagine the stuff used for "slinkies" is of a larger diameter. — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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The motor like sound comes from the vibrating trailing edge of the sail (fabric). Control lines can produce whistle like sound. Gee Simo…did you really think I didn’t know that?  I was joking about the motor.

Now you can be stronger in your faith… Simo —

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<questions about Spectra) : I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. : No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to : use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing : ^_^;; In *any* contact, the Spectra loses; it has a *very* low melting point and any friction cuts it instantly. For cutting wings off <grin, use Kevlar. In fact, for your use I would recommend it over Spectra, although it is not as UV-resistant; just don’t leave the lines out in the sun when you’re not using them and they should last for years.

Heh… Speaking of cutting off wings.. Yesterday I was at the first (for me) contest of the season. I got a kill off someone by snagging his streamer with my inboard leading edge. Problem was the string the management supplies was a little too think – it broke both spars and tore off half the inboard wing! — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I was browsing around a couple weeks ago at the local Wal-mart and came across "Spider Wire" – a braided Spectra fishing line. I’ve also come across some in a Netcraft catalog – where its significantly cheaper ($11-16 for 150 yards). Apparently it comes in about 6 or 7 different thicknesses (.006 to ..013 inch) and 3 colors (green, grey, white) and is very strong. It doesn’t stretch. I will want to use the thin stuff for control-line wire for flying 1/2-As. Questions: 1) Does this stuff deteriorate badly in sunlight 2) Is it fuel proof (I assume so, its polyethylene) 3) How do you make ends? "Traditional" steel C/L wire is terminated   using copper or aluminum crimping sleeves. What about those   "fisherman’s knots" that are used for monofilament? The ones where   the line wraps around itself several times. One could substitute the   line clip for the fishing hook. Would crimping sleeves work? What   are these "sleeves" that kite fliers use? I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing

Wow!  Control line.  It’s been about 35 years since I fooled around with C/L.  – fun stuff.   I use the polypro stuff for fishing.  I’d say it is fairly resistant to sunlight and fuels.  I would suggest tying to a small snap using a polamar or a trilene knot, then "seal" the knot with a tiny drop of super-glue. I suspect you could fly a Cessna 180 with the .013 stuff  I think I would try something around .008 or about 20# test for 1/2 A. The stuff is real slippery (good for loops) and that quality can be enhanced by spraying with ACE or any other generic brand of silicone lubricant. Have fun.

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1) Does this stuff deteriorate badly in sunlight

I’ve never had any problems with my lines deteriorating. 2) Is it fuel proof (I assume so, its polyethylene)

Wouldn’t know about this.  My kite sounds like it has a motor in it (several people have asked what kind of motor I’m using) but there really isn’t one…honest 3) How do you make ends? "Traditional" steel C/L wire is terminated   using copper or aluminum crimping sleeves. What about those   "fisherman’s knots" that are used for monofilament? The ones where   the line wraps around itself several times. One could substitute the   line clip for the fishing hook. Would crimping sleeves work? What   are these "sleeves" that kite fliers use?

I’d really like to hear what the fishing folks say about this as it’s the major bugaboo.  In kiting we sleeve each line before making a bend in it as the stuff is very brittle when bent.  We use parachute chord and thread the Spectra through it.  Then we can loop the cord back and tie it without problems.   This is true of normal fishing line as well and a simple knot will reduce the line strength by an order of magnitude.  Thus, there are several knots that try to get around this and are somewhat successful.  They amount to wrapping the line back on itself and around itself.  This increases strength by the simple redundancy so that the knot itself, while it weakens the area by the tying, doesn’t completely give up the strength.  In stunt kiting, though, we want 150-200lb test lines with the diameter of 6lb monofilament. I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing

This is really the downside of Spectra.  It’s SHARP.  Any stunt kiter who tells you they’ve never been cut by it either hasn’t used it very long or they’re lying — # Canadian Forest Service              _||  |/|_                         # # Petawawa National Forestry Institute        /    Tel:  (613) 589-2880 # # Chalk River, Ontario  K0J 1J0         ______<     Fax:  (613) 589-2275 # # CANADA                                   /                              #

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Sleeving.. A needle of sorts.  Really nothing more than a loop of wire that’s pinched at two places to form an elongated loop.  You can then lay the line in one end and push the wire through.  You want something dull, though, so that you don’t tear through any fibres in the sleeving.  I’m sure you can buy sleeving at Into the Wind but I’ve just used parachute cord and it works fine.

What exactly is "parachute cord"? You don’t mean the stuff for full-size parachutes, do you? Incidentally, I hear that Kevlar lines need sleeving, too. Its Spectra vs. styrofoam, though. Maybe a spruce spar or two also. I don’t share the view that Spectra will always lose.  It’s not used on fighter kites because it is more brittle than other lines.  I doubt it would get through a spruce spar but it would likely take a considerable bite out of styrofoam.  The big problem would be cut-offs if it hit any of the clips, control cables, or metal/wood parts.  BTW, aren’t there rules against using anything but braided metal lines for anything but 1/2A?

Sullivan sells Kevlar control lines. They aren’t too popular, though. By the way, C/L airplanes behave much like stunt kites – you pull on one line and it turns one way, pull on the other and it goes the other Yeah, except you don’t have to worry about your competitor getting you upwind and loose

Yeah.. I’d like to see a kite fly upwind ^_^ The Kevlar seems a little thick (at least the stuff on sale at Wal-Mart) for 1/2-As, but we do plan to try it out. Its a lot cheaper than the Spectra, by the way. What is the "Wal-Mart" use for Kevlar?  I’ve never used it for kite lines but from talking to those who have, it just doesn’t hold up like Spectra. Might be the lack of UV resistance but most folks chalk it up to being "too brittle".

Its fishing line. "Stren" brand, to be exact. On the same display case for that matter. — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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Wouldn’t know about this.  My kite sounds like it has a motor in it (several people have asked what kind of motor I’m using) but there really isn’t one…honest

I noticed that in certain kites there is a motor like sound when they fly.  Is it caused by the control line or by the farbic of the kite itself? 874 Dillingham Blvd.       | Honolulu, HI 96817         | Ph#: (808) 845-9202        |

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How is this done? A needle? Where do you get the sleeving? "Into-the-Wind"? (I visited their showroom in Denver once, by the way..)

A needle of sorts.  Really nothing more than a loop of wire that’s pinched at two places to form an elongated loop.  You can then lay the line in one end and push the wire through.  You want something dull, though, so that you don’t tear through any fibres in the sleeving.  I’m sure you can buy sleeving at Into the Wind but I’ve just used parachute cord and it works fine. In *any* contact, the Spectra loses; it has a *very* low melting point and any friction cuts it instantly. Its Spectra vs. styrofoam, though. Maybe a spruce spar or two also.

I don’t share the view that Spectra will always lose.  It’s not used on fighter kites because it is more brittle than other lines.  I doubt it would get through a spruce spar but it would likely take a considerable bite out of styrofoam.  The big problem would be cut-offs if it hit any of the clips, control cables, or metal/wood parts.  BTW, aren’t there rules against using anything but braided metal lines for anything but 1/2A? Something I’d forgotten to ask about is abrasion resistance and how easily it slides over itself. The stunt kite people ought to be able to answer this one.

This is not a problem.  You can wrap them up quite a lot before you start feeling friction problems.  It’s probably better than braided metal in this respect. By the way, C/L airplanes behave much like stunt kites – you pull on one line and it turns one way, pull on the other and it goes the other

Yeah, except you don’t have to worry about your competitor getting you upwind and loose For cutting wings off <grin, use Kevlar. In fact, for your use I would recommend it over Spectra, although it is not as UV-resistant; just don’t leave the lines out in the sun when you’re not using them and they should last for years. The Kevlar seems a little thick (at least the stuff on sale at Wal-Mart) for 1/2-As, but we do plan to try it out. Its a lot cheaper than the Spectra, by the way.

What is the "Wal-Mart" use for Kevlar?  I’ve never used it for kite lines but from talking to those who have, it just doesn’t hold up like Spectra. Might be the lack of UV resistance but most folks chalk it up to being "too brittle". — # Canadian Forest Service              _||  |/|_                         # # Petawawa National Forestry Institute        /    Tel:  (613) 589-2880 # # Chalk River, Ontario  K0J 1J0         ______<     Fax:  (613) 589-2275 # # CANADA                                   /                              #

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Sleeves are short lengths of braided dacron line; these are hollow braids. You slip a length of it over the Spectra (long enough to cover entire loop and knotted area) and then make the loop with a double- overhand knot, being careful to keep the two parts parallel through the knot. Some people recommend two d-oh knots a short distance apart to prevent the Spectra slipping through the knot.

How is this done? A needle? Where do you get the sleeving? "Into-the-Wind"? (I visited their showroom in Denver once, by the way..) : I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. : No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to : use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing : ^_^;; In *any* contact, the Spectra loses; it has a *very* low melting point and any friction cuts it instantly.

Its Spectra vs. styrofoam, though. Maybe a spruce spar or two also. Something I’d forgotten to ask about is abrasion resistance and how easily it slides over itself. The stunt kite people ought to be able to answer this one. By the way, C/L airplanes behave much like stunt kites – you pull on one line and it turns one way, pull on the other and it goes the other way. The difference is that the lines are on a handle and you use one hand to do the controlling. I’ve seen stunt kites flown like this, except the "handle" is a 3 foot long broomstick. In fact, someone sells a "combat trainer" kite, ostensibly for learning how to fly C/L planes. There are also engineless C/L planes called "wind fliers". You fly them on the downwind side of the circle when the wind blows, assisting it now and then by whipping. For cutting wings off <grin, use Kevlar. In fact, for your use I would recommend it over Spectra, although it is not as UV-resistant; just don’t leave the lines out in the sun when you’re not using them and they should last for years.

The Kevlar seems a little thick (at least the stuff on sale at Wal-Mart) for 1/2-As, but we do plan to try it out. Its a lot cheaper than the Spectra, by the way. — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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The motor like sound comes from the vibrating trailing edge of the sail (fabric). Control lines can produce whistle like sound.

Gee Simo…did you really think I didn’t know that?  I was joking about the motor. — # Canadian Forest Service              _||  |/|_                         # # Petawawa National Forestry Institute        /    Tel:  (613) 589-2880 # # Chalk River, Ontario  K0J 1J0         ______<     Fax:  (613) 589-2275 # # CANADA                                   /                              #

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What exactly is "parachute cord"? You don’t mean the stuff for full-size parachutes, do you? Incidentally, I hear that Kevlar lines need sleeving, too.

I guess I’m showing my age by calling it that.  The stuff was developed for that use.  It comes in several diameters and you want the stuff that IS, indeed, useed in small parachutes (drag chutes).  And yes, Kevlar should be sleeved also. Yeah.. I’d like to see a kite fly upwind ^_^

– # Canadian Forest Service              _||  |/|_                         # # Petawawa National Forestry Institute        /    Tel:  (613) 589-2880 # # Chalk River, Ontario  K0J 1J0         ______<     Fax:  (613) 589-2275 # # CANADA                                   /                              #

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Wouldn’t know about this.  My kite sounds like it has a motor in it (several people have asked what kind of motor I’m using) but there really isn’t one…honest I noticed that in certain kites there is a motor like sound when they fly.  Is it caused by the control line or by the farbic of the kite itself?

The motor like sound comes from the vibrating trailing edge of the sail (fabric). Control lines can produce whistle like sound. Simo —

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I’m cross-posting this to rec.fishing, and rec.kites (where Spectra lines have been used for a long time) in the hopes that I can get my questions answered. I was browsing around a couple weeks ago at the local Wal-mart and came across "Spider Wire" – a braided Spectra fishing line. I’ve also come across some in a Netcraft catalog – where its significantly cheaper ($11-16 for 150 yards). Apparently it comes in about 6 or 7 different thicknesses (.006 to .013 inch) and 3 colors (green, grey, white) and is very strong. It doesn’t stretch. I will want to use the thin stuff for control-line wire for flying 1/2-As. Questions: 1) Does this stuff deteriorate badly in sunlight 2) Is it fuel proof (I assume so, its polyethylene) 3) How do you make ends? "Traditional" steel C/L wire is terminated    using copper or aluminum crimping sleeves. What about those    "fisherman’s knots" that are used for monofilament? The ones where    the line wraps around itself several times. One could substitute the    line clip for the fishing hook. Would crimping sleeves work? What    are these "sleeves" that kite fliers use? I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing ^_^;; — Iskandar Taib                          | The only thing worse than Peach ala

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<questions about Spectra) : 1) Does this stuff deteriorate badly in sunlight It is better than a lot of materials for UV resistance, but not UV-proof. : 2) Is it fuel proof (I assume so, its polyethylene) Dunno, never tried, but I’d tend to assume so, for the same reason as you. : 3) How do you make ends? "Traditional" steel C/L wire is terminated :    using copper or aluminum crimping sleeves. What about those :    "fisherman’s knots" that are used for monofilament? The ones where :    the line wraps around itself several times. One could substitute the :    line clip for the fishing hook. Would crimping sleeves work? What :    are these "sleeves" that kite fliers use? Sleeves are short lengths of braided dacron line; these are hollow braids. You slip a length of it over the Spectra (long enough to cover entire loop and knotted area) and then make the loop with a double- overhand knot, being careful to keep the two parts parallel through the knot. Some people recommend two d-oh knots a short distance apart to prevent the Spectra slipping through the knot. : I wonder if the .013" stuff would be OK for moderately large models. : No, I don’t plan to try this stuff in Combat – it’d be interesting to : use it as a streamer leader though – cut off the other guy’s wing : ^_^;; In *any* contact, the Spectra loses; it has a *very* low melting point and any friction cuts it instantly. For cutting wings off <grin, use Kevlar. In fact, for your use I would recommend it over Spectra, although it is not as UV-resistant; just don’t leave the lines out in the sun when you’re not using them and they should last for years. — …I studied with diligence Neptune’s laws, and these laws I tried to obey… <Joshua Slocum

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How is this done? A needle? Where do you get the sleeving? "Into-the-Wind"? (I visited their showroom in Denver once, by the way..)

Take a two foot length of thin wire (fishing leader or even your metal C/L line and bend it back on itself. Thread this wire into the sleeving material and then loop the spectra between the two sides of the wire and pull it back. Something I’d forgotten to ask about is abrasion resistance and how easily it slides over itself. The stunt kite people ought to be able to answer this one.

It is very slippery and does slide over itself. In this respect it would probably work great for C/L. Unfortunately, abrasion resistance is pretty low. Overall, Spectra is fragile stuff. Be careful about snagging it on objects or on the ground. If you do use it, check it periodically for nicks and abrasion points. The Kevlar seems a little thick (at least the stuff on sale at Wal-Mart) for 1/2-As, but we do plan to try it out. Its a lot cheaper than the Spectra, by the way.

For a given breaking strength, Kevlar and Spectra are about the same size in cross section. Stretching characteristics are also about the same. Kevlar is a lot tougher though, and you don’t have to worry so much about abrasion and contact with other lines. — Marty Sasaki            Harvard University           Sasaki Kite Fabrications 617-496-4320            10 Ware Street               Jamaica Plain, MA 02130                         Cambridge, MA 02138-4002     phone/fax: 617-522-8546

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Question:

I am trying to contact the Martin Reel company.  They seemed to have closed both their factory in Mohawk, NY where my fly reel   was manufactured and their customer service office in Tulsa OK, which is listed on my warranty card.  Good thing I decided to call before sending my reel in for repairs!  I thought my troubles were solved when I found a phone# for Martin Reels in a recent product review in Flyfishing magazine, but instead it was the residence of one very irrate lady who sounded pretty fed up with people calling about fly reels.  Anyway, if you happen to know a phone number for Martin Reels, or have a recent warranty card with a new address or phone number I would certainly appreciate it! Roger. —  Roger S. Barga     | Department of Computer Science and Engineering                     | Oregon Graduate Institute of Science and Technology (503) 690-1121 7308 | P.O. Box 91000

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I am trying to contact the Martin Reel company.  They seemed to have closed both their factory in Mohawk, NY where my fly reel   was manufactured and their customer service office in Tulsa OK, which is listed on my warranty card.  Good thing I decided to call before sending my reel in for repairs!  I thought my troubles were solved when I found a phone# for Martin Reels in a recent product review in Flyfishing magazine, but instead it was the residence of one very irrate lady who sounded pretty fed up with people calling about fly reels.  Anyway, if you happen to know a phone number for Martin Reels, or have a recent warranty card with a new address or phone number I would certainly appreciate it! Roger.

Martin was bought by Zebco, hence the Tulsa address, so you should be able to call them. -bruce pencek — Political Science, Box 15036      as eternal salvation — come by grace and   Northern Arizona University       grace comes by art and art does not come Flagstaff, AZ  86011-5036         easy."                 — Norman Maclean

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