Question:

Ha! Made you look, cracker!

Response:

Ha! Made you look, cracker!

What does this have to do with skating?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Blacks are the foremost perpetrators of "hate crimes". 30,000 White women are raped by black males every year. Over 5,000 Whites are assaulted. 1,800 Whites are murdered by blacks every year in America. Read "The Color of Crime" http://www.amren.com/colrcrim.html                           ||__||           |    Please do   |                          /   O O      |        NOT       |                         /                |     feed the    |                        /                |   the niggers  |                      /    |____        ||                     /     | | | |____/      ||                    /       |_|_|/   |    __ ||                   /  /              |____| ||                  /   |   | /|        |      –  |                  |   |   |//         |____           * _    |  |_|_|_|          |     -/        *– _– _     //           |          /  _     \ _ //   |        /        *  /   _ /- | –     |       |

What does this sick stuff have to do with skating?

Response:

Dear Julia.. You are one sick puppy! Woman sentenced in racist e-mail hoax trash snipped

What does this have to do with skating?

Response:

What does this sick stuff have to do with skating?

It is related to Ice Skating in the exact same manner it is related to CD Recorders, GI-Joe toys, Fly Fishing, and Outdoor Travel (cross posted newsgroups).  There is no correlation, it is just some AWM (anger white male) venting their frustrations and showing their ignorance.  It is 2001, even red necks can get on the internet now

Response:

Blacks are the foremost perpetrators of "hate crimes". 30,000 White women are raped by black males every year. Over 5,000 Whites are assaulted. 1,800 Whites are murdered by blacks every year in America. Read "The Color of Crime" http://www.amren.com/colrcrim.html                           ||__||           |    Please do   |                          /   O O      |        NOT       |                         /                |     feed the    |                        /                |   the niggers  |                      /    |____        ||                     /     | | | |____/      ||                    /       |_|_|/   |    __ ||                   /  /              |____| ||                  /   |   | /|        |      –  |                  |   |   |//         |____           * _    |  |_|_|_|          |     -/        *– _– _     //           |          /  _     \ _ //   |        /        *  /   _ /- | –     |       |

Response:

Woman sentenced in racist e-mail hoax BY JENNIFER FEEHAN BLADE STAFF WRITER BOWLING GREEN – A black woman who admitted sending racist e-mail messages to herself was placed on probation yesterday for two years and ordered to write a letter of apology to Bowling Green State University students. Omobonike Odegbami, 27, of Toledo, Ohio pleaded guilty Oct. 27 to tampering with evidence, a third-degree felony. Investigators said she reported to BGSU police in April that she had received threatening, racially charged e-mail from an unknown source. A graduate student at the time, she relayed her story to the campus newspaper, which published a front-page story about the case. Campus police enlisted the aid of the FBI, soon zeroing in on classmates and instructors in Odegbami’s small graduate program. She eventually confessed. Odegbami, appearing yesterday in Wood County Common Pleas Court, apologized before Judge Reeve Kelsey but offered no explanation for her actions. She declined to comment after the sentencing. James Wiegand, director of public safety at BGSU, told Judge Kelsey that university officials are "both disappointed and certainly relieved" at the outcome of the case. He said it is disappointing that a student would go to such lengths to get attention, but a relief that the messages were bogus. Wood County Prosecutor Alan Mayberry said he agreed not to seek a prison sentence as part of a plea deal with Odegbami. However, he said he wants her to obtain counseling and apologize in a letter published in the campus newspaper. Odegbami’s attorney, Stanley Garrett, told the judge his client has no prior criminal record, that she accepts responsibility for what she did, and that she is attending the University of Toledo. Judge Kelsey said Odegbami must perform 200 hours of community service during her two years of community control, continue to undergo mental health counseling at her own expense, and pay all court costs. He warned that if she violates those conditions, she could receive more restrictive sanctions, go to jail for up to six months, or to prison for three years. — Blacks are the foremost perpetrators of "hate crimes". 30,000 White women are raped by black males every year. Over 5,000 Whites are assaulted. 1,800 Whites are murdered by blacks every year in America. Read "The Color of Crime" http://www.amren.com/colrcrim.html

Response:

Woman sentenced in racist e-mail hoax

But have they been fishin’? Can they send us a TR? Chris

Response:

Dear Julia.. You are one sick puppy! Woman sentenced in racist e-mail hoax

trash snipped — On my retirement adventure from the rolling hills of the Southern Tier in New York State…..    Traveling in my 1999 Dodge 2500 6-spd diesel, 1999 Sunnybrook 27RKFS 5th-wheel

Response:

Soltys Says Victims Tried to ‘Poison’ Him  By KPIX – Ann Notarangelo  Investigators say mass murder suspect Nikolay Soltys claims the family members he’s accused of killing were trying to "poison"  him.  However, language difficulties are making it hard for police to determine if that means Soltys believed his family was trying to  murder him, or simply ruin his reputation.  Police do say that the 27-year-old Ukrainian immigrant is cooperating with the investigation. But they won’t comment on reports  that Soltys has already confessed to the crimes, saying that revealing too many details could damage their case in court.  Soltys is now in protective custody in the county jail, to protect him from other inmates and himself. He was arrested Thursday,  outside his mother’s home in a Sacramento suburb.  Soltys is suspected of killing his wife, son, and four other family members, but police say there’s no evidence he went to his  mother’s house to hurt anyone. Instead, investigators thought the Soltys may have been trying to reach out to his mother. It was  that possibility that inspired police to quietly watch the home since the family chose to leave protective custody earlier this week.  Police also gave Soltys’ mother a panic button to use if her son appeared.  "It’s designed to be a one-button-push call to the 911 operator," said Sgt. Jamie Lewis with the Sacramento County Sheriff’s  Department. "Ultimately, they decided not to use this device, because they wanted to put some distance between them and the  suspect."  But police say that decision backfired. When the family tried to call 911 on the cell phone authorities had also given them, they  mistakenly dialed 119. A store clerk eventually helped them make the call.

Response:

Question:

I’ve never been very good at following instructions.  I tried putting a tag on each of the flies I tied for the swap but it got to be an unholy mess with all those itty bitty pieces of paper, especially since I used barbless hooks.  So, I decided that I would simply identify my contribution here for all those due to receive one. Pass Lake: Fine black chenille body on a size 14 standard dry fly hook.  The tail is mallard flank clipped short just behind the bend.  Three turns of brown hackle.  White calf tail wing tied trude style.  I can’t imagine anyone having any difficulty identifying the pass lake based on this description…….it doesn’t even vaguely resemble anything else I have ever seen.  I would be much surprised if it could be confused with anyone else’s contribution.  Besides, it should be the only one you get without a tag on it.    :) This is allegedly a dry fly, but with the chenille body it tends to absorb water readily.  In fact, it floats or sinks pretty much at its own discretion.  However, it has proven very effective for me whether floating high and dry, floundering in the meniscus, or completely submerged.  Not only does it not resemble any other fly I have ever seen, but the same can be said for its affinity to anything that has ever lived in a lake or stream.  Nevertheless, both trout and bluegills (and all their kin) take it readily.  Dead drifting, skittering across the surface, slow retrieve or twitching below the surface, and simply hanging in the current have all worked at various time under a variety of conditions. Any experienced tier should have no trouble figuring out how to put this one together.  One important note though:  calf tail is very slippery; don’t try to make a small neat head on this one.  I make the heads relatively long and thick in order to get a lot of thread holding the wing in place.  Be very liberal in this regard or you will find the calf tail falling out.  Newbies feel free to email me for specific instructions. Sorry Frank, I tried to be good!

Response:

 Incidentally, I have caught many fish on the Pass Lake by just letting it hang in the current downstream while watching a partner fish.  Any similar experience with the Rio Grande King?

Especially when caddis are hatching, once the fly begins to drag I submerge it, give it slack and fish it like a downstream wet.  Get lots of fish during the swing and even hanging directly downstream.  These are usually smaller fish.  The better fish I’ve caught on the pattern have been fish tight against the bank that hit the fly when partially submerged. Willi

Response:

You might be right Warren, I’ve called in the FBI to have the box and all those little buggers checked for fingerprints…but if the miscreant who removed those tags wuz wearin’ expensive Italian shoes and blood-soaked gloves, we’ll never get a conviction! Frank (coppin’ out) Church

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s OK Warren, the old tired grey swapmeister will tag ‘em for ya both, I love helping out those less fortunate than me. )….."and barbless hooks don’t help anything either"….shoulda been one of these there  :-) (I gotta take longer naps) Thanks Frank.  I will keep investigating to see who it was that didn’t tag their flies.  It wasn’t me, because I had mine all tagged.  I spent a lot of time tagging those damn things so if they arrived without tags it must have been the postal service and their latest anti-terrorism technology that made them disappear. Of course the flies were probably damaged too during the process, so keep that in mind.<g Warren X#-[ Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

You might be right Warren, I’ve called in the FBI to have the box and all those little buggers checked for fingerprints…but if the miscreant who removed those tags wuz wearin’ expensive Italian shoes and blood-soaked gloves, we’ll never get a conviction!

Or what if it was Richard Jewel?  They’ll never prove Bubba did it! <g Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

That’s OK Warren, the old tired grey swapmeister will tag ‘em for ya both, I love helping out those less fortunate than me. )….."and barbless hooks don’t help anything either"….shoulda been one of these there  :-) (I gotta take longer naps)

Thanks Frank.  I will keep investigating to see who it was that didn’t tag their flies.  It wasn’t me, because I had mine all tagged.  I spent a lot of time tagging those damn things so if they arrived without tags it must have been the postal service and their latest anti-terrorism technology that made them disappear. Of course the flies were probably damaged too during the process, so keep that in mind.<g Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

Well, OK Wolfie..I’ll forgive you just this once, but all you really needed to do was put yer moniker and the name of the fly on the tag.  I can see why the tag would be the size of a legal paper with all that recipe on it. And barbless hooks don’t help anything either.

Well Wolfie, you aren’t the only one that bagged them without taggin’ them.  I know there was another dirty, rotten s.o.b. out there that didn’t do it either.  For the life of me I can’t remember his name or what he tied, but I know he is out there <g Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

That’s OK Warren, the old tired grey swapmeister will tag ‘em for ya both, I love helping out those less fortunate than me. )….."and barbless hooks don’t help anything either"….shoulda been one of these there  :-) (I gotta take longer naps) OTGS

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, OK Wolfie..I’ll forgive you just this once, but all you really needed to do was put yer moniker and the name of the fly on the tag.  I can see why the tag would be the size of a legal paper with all that recipe on it. And barbless hooks don’t help anything either. Well Wolfie, you aren’t the only one that bagged them without taggin’ them. I know there was another dirty, rotten s.o.b. out there that didn’t do it either. For the life of me I can’t remember his name or what he tied, but I know he is out there <g Warren X#-[ Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

Actually the fly is very similar to a Rio Grande King or Rio Grande Trude….

Thank you Willi.  And now that you have made everyone aware of the distinctions between the Rio Grande King and my own humble offering NOBODY has any excuse to confuse it with anything else that arrives in their goody boxes!  Incidentally, I have caught many fish on the Pass Lake by just letting it hang in the current downstream while watching a partner fish.  Any similar experience with the Rio Grande King? Wolfgang who is hoping oh so fervently that he will be able to put his fly swap rejects to work this weekend!

Response:

Good idea posting the recipe Wolfgang.  BTW – I made my tags stay on by coating the paper front and back with scotch(tm) tape. Here is the recipe for the Teco Bug (or Teko Bug – I’ve seen it spelled both ways). The Teco Bug was originated about 40 years by Dick Blair and some other guys long who fish the Westfield River here in Western Massachusetts.  The lower stretches of the river have lots of dragonfly nymphs and we think this fly imitates those and probably stonefly nymphs and the Isonychia.  Dick ties these in sizes 4 through 8, usually unweighted and never with a bead.  Most other people I know will either add lead or a bead head.  The ones I tied are on a size 8 Mustad 3906B nymph hook.  I also tie mine sparser and smaller than Dick.  He does two layers of the underfur before adding the guard hairs – he makes really fat buggy nymphs and has been very successful with those for lots of years.  I don’t fish the main stem of the Westfield, preferring the smaller feeder branches, and I think the sparser version does better up there and also in the ponds I fish.  Fish the Teco as a nymph (up and across, dead drift, and use an indicator if you want).  We also fish these like a streamer, down and across with short strips at the end of the swing, especially when fishing the Isonychia drift in August.  The name Teco (Teko) comes from Tekoa Mountain, a big rocky hill overlooking the Westfield River where Dick likes to fish. Bead Head Teco Bug No tail Thread: Danville 6/0 waxed, color to match fur Hook: Mustad 3906B or similar, size 4 through 12 (I usually use size Bead: cyclops eye (size to fit hook, 1/8" is good on a size Underbody: snowshoe hare body fur underfur Overbody: snowshoe hare guard hair (see description below) Wing: mallard flank feather Method: We tie these in silver (silver bead, gray fur, natural mallard), brown (silver or brass bead, brown fur, mallard dyed wood duck, or real wood duck if you have them) and olive (olive dyed rabbit, brass bead, olive dyed mallard). Put the bead on the hook.  You probably need to pinch down the barb. Coat shank well with thread back to the hook bend.  You can lock in the bead with thread, but I usually just build up a ball of dubbing.  For the sparse version, bring the thread up to the head.  For the fat version, bring the thread back to the hook bend. Cut off several bunches of fur (six is about right for a size and separate the underfur from the guard hairs.  This is critical to the fly – using blended dubbing and picking out guard hairs does not give a buggy enough appearance.  Swap hands so you are pinching the fur at the cut end and pinch the guardhairs with the thumb and forefinger of the other hand. Pull out the guard hairs and stack in neat piles for later use.  Tease out the piles of underfur and mix. Dub the underfur mixture and wrap a fairly cylindrical body.  The fat version does two layers of dubbing.  Both versions should end with the thread at the hook bend. The guard hairs are applied either by waxing the thread and dabbing the hairs on loosely, or by using a dubbing loop.  I prefer using a little wax and just sticking on the hairs.  If you’re using pre-waxed thread and you have the right touch, no additional wax is necessary.  Don’t spin them tight.  Wrap the guard hair dubbing up to the eye.  The idea is to apply all six bunches fairly evenly.  You should have lots of spiky hair sticking out in all directions.  If necessary, brush out more hairs with a piece of velcro. The mallard flank wing should use a symmetrical rounded feather.  Pick a decent feather and strip off the fluffy section.  The feather should extend about 1/2 hook shank length past the bend.  Wet your fingers and stroke the barbules to compact them.  Dick Blair just puts the feather in his mouth to wet it and pulls it through his lips to compact it – use your own judgement. Take two or three loose wraps of thread over the feather and position the feather, then pull the stem to bring the barbules under the wraps.  This further compacts the feather.  When it looks right, take a few tighter wraps to secure the feather. Make a wing case by taking the thread back about 1/4" under the feather and taking two loose wraps.  Then bring the thread back to the head and tie off. –Stan

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never been very good at following instructions.  I tried putting a tag on each of the flies I tied for the swap but it got to be an unholy mess with all those itty bitty pieces of paper, especially since I used barbless hooks.  So, I decided that I would simply identify my contribution here for all those due to receive one. Pass Lake:

Response:

<snip Apparently my spell checker doesn’t care about obviously stupid headers or it is deliberately out to get me.

Response:

Well, OK Wolfie..I’ll forgive you just this once, but all you really needed to do was put yer moniker and the name of the fly on the tag.  I can see why the tag would be the size of a legal paper with all that recipe on it. And barbless hooks don’t help anything either. YOT&GS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never been very good at following instructions.  I tried putting a tag on each of the flies I tied for the swap but it got to be an unholy mess with all those itty bitty pieces of paper, especially since I used barbless hooks.  So, I decided that I would simply identify my contribution here for all those due to receive one. Sorry Frank, I tried to be good!

Response:

Actually the fly is very similar to a Rio Grande King or Rio Grande Trude, a fly that was very popular about 25 years ago in Colorado and Wyoming. The Rio Grande traditionally has a golden tinsel tag and the tail is made of golden pheasant tippets, but there were many variations. I tie mine very similar to your Pass Creek, but use brown hackle for the tail (one less material to get out) and I often tie it on a 2X long hook. I also like the versatility of this fly.  Like you stated, it can be fished dry, damp or wet and can be fished dead drift or with various amount of action. Locally it has seemed to have fallen out of favor. It is one of several "old" patterns that I use that have been replaced by more modern, but not necessarily better, patterns. These "old" patterns, aside from being good flies in their own right, can sometimes turn the trick on fish that have seen alot of flies. Willi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve never been very good at following instructions.  I tried putting a tag on each of the flies I tied for the swap but it got to be an unholy mess with all those itty bitty pieces of paper, especially since I used barbless hooks.  So, I decided that I would simply identify my contribution here for all those due to receive one. Pass Lake: Fine black chenille body on a size 14 standard dry fly hook.  The tail is mallard flank clipped short just behind the bend.  Three turns of brown hackle.  White calf tail wing tied trude style.  I can’t imagine anyone having any difficulty identifying the pass lake based on this description…….it doesn’t even vaguely resemble anything else I have ever seen.  I would be much surprised if it could be confused with anyone else’s contribution.  Besides, it should be the only one you get without a tag on it.    :) This is allegedly a dry fly, but with the chenille body it tends to absorb water readily.  In fact, it floats or sinks pretty much at its own discretion.  However, it has proven very effective for me whether floating high and dry, floundering in the meniscus, or completely submerged.  Not only does it not resemble any other fly I have ever seen, but the same can be said for its affinity to anything that has ever lived in a lake or stream.  Nevertheless, both trout and bluegills (and all their kin) take it readily.  Dead drifting, skittering across the surface, slow retrieve or twitching below the surface, and simply hanging in the current have all worked at various time under a variety of conditions. Any experienced tier should have no trouble figuring out how to put this one together.  One important note though:  calf tail is very slippery; don’t try to make a small neat head on this one.  I make the heads relatively long and thick in order to get a lot of thread holding the wing in place.  Be very liberal in this regard or you will find the calf tail falling out.  Newbies feel free to email me for specific instructions. Sorry Frank, I tried to be good!

Response:

Question:

How many of you use a whipped loop on your fly line to which you connect your looped leaders? Seems like this makes a lot of sense … yet the books don’t really discuss it … at least the books I have read … tried it for shooting head system … works well there …. John

Response:

How many of you use a whipped loop on your fly line to which you connect your looped leaders?

<SNIP You are describing the NAIL KNOT!

<SNIP I didn’t think he was describing a nail knot.  I thought he was talking about creating some sort of ‘loop’ in the end of his fly line, not tying a loop onto the end of the line with a nail knot. Could just be my misinterpretation though (certainly wouldn’t be the first time). Dave If we didn’t have some bad days, they would call it ‘catching’, not ‘fishing’.

Response:

You are describing the NAIL KNOT! It has always bothered me that the same knot gets different names depending upon how it is used. Nail knot Whip finish Snell They all are the same knot, even if made differently.

"Whipping" is NOT a nail knot.   It involves using a smaller diameter line or thread to secure a doubled-back portion of the main line. [Large lines (what non-sailors call "ropes") are whipped with heavy twine.]   In the case of whipping a loop in the end of a flyline, it involves stripping off a section of the coating, then folding it back and "whipping" the overlap with rod-wrapping or fly-tying thread. The "whip finish" refers to the way you end "whipping,"   It is not the same as a nail knot, either!   (See page 102, "Practical Fishing Knots II," Sosin and Kreh, 1991, Lyons and Burford, New York, NY) Bob Scott Ex-Navy

Response:

How many of you use a whipped loop on your fly line to which you connect your looped leaders?

Me. Then loop to a surgeons loop in the bimini of 6′ of 20# flourocarbon. It isn’t a nail not, by the way. Capt. Gary S. Colecchio West Palm Beach "Lie ? Me ? Never!  No, no, no, the truth is far too much fun !" – Captain Hook

Response:

To others as well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You are describing the NAIL KNOT! It has always bothered me that the same knot gets different names depending upon how it is used. Nail knot Whip finish Snell They all are the same knot, even if made differently. "Whipping" is NOT a nail knot.   It involves using a smaller diameter line or thread to secure a doubled-back portion of the main line. [Large lines (what non-sailors call "ropes") are whipped with heavy twine.]   In the case of whipping a loop in the end of a flyline, it involves stripping off a section of the coating, then folding it back and "whipping" the overlap with rod-wrapping or fly-tying thread. The "whip finish" refers to the way you end "whipping,"   It is not the same as a nail knot, either!   (See page 102, "Practical Fishing Knots II," Sosin and Kreh, 1991, Lyons and Burford, New York, NY)

These do describe the same mathematical topological entity as a nail knot. When you ignore such properties as the size of the various lines or ropes, the fundamental structure of all these knots is the same even though they may superficially look different. Bill

Response:

Hi John, Give it a try and see if it works out for you. I have seen it on many anglers lines that have come though the stores that I have worked. 1) You can turn back the flyline and wip a loop with the core. 2) You can use some dacron line for the lopop too. 3) You can use a factory braided mono loop or make your own braided mono loop. I try to test all the different knots, connections and systems to see how they work. What you or I choose to use ourselves is meaningless as there are so many ways to do all of this. PS: I prefer to ‘needle nail knot’ the mono butt of my leader to the fly line and I do see it is very popular for fresh water fishing in the California.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How many of you use a whipped loop on your fly line to which you connect your looped leaders? Seems like this makes a lot of sense … yet the books don’t really discuss it … at least the books I have read … tried it for shooting head system … works well there …. John

Response:

How many of you use a whipped loop on your fly line to which you connect your looped leaders? Seems like this makes a lot of sense … yet the books don’t really discuss it … at least the books I have read … tried it for shooting head system … works well there …. John

You are describing the NAIL KNOT! It has always bothered me that the same knot gets different names depending upon how it is used. Nail knot Whip finish Snell They all are the same knot, even if made differently. Bill

Response:

Question:

What is there to do in Belize? I have been told that it has the best fly fishing in the world. But I would like to more about the country. Is the snorkelling good, scuba diving and beaches worth the trip? And what about the Mayan ruins, tropical rain forest and anything else you can tell me?

Response:

What is there to do in Belize? I have been told that it has the best fly fishing in the world. But I would like to more about the country. Is the snorkelling good, scuba diving and beaches worth the trip? And what about the Mayan ruins, tropical rain forest and anything else you can tell me?

We stayed in Placencia in May 2000 and stayed at the Rum Point Inn.  The beaches were okay but not good for walking out into the water and swimming – full of turtle grass.  The Mayan ruins – we visited Lubantuum and Nimli Punit – were amazing, particularly Lubantuum.  There was no snorkeling from the beach, but a one hour boat ride got us out to some amazing places for both snorkeling and scuba diving.  Absolutely breathtaking.  We didn’t go on the Monkey River tour or to the Jaguar preserve (ran out of $$) but friends who did go said it was well worthwhile. May seems to be an off-season so it’s hard to tell whether we visited at the best time. We weren’t crazy about Placencia or the Rum Point Inn, but I’ve heard others extoll the virtues of both.  We definitely enjoyed the snorkeling and Mayan ruins, and would recommend it for that.

Response:

Question:

— You should have told him about St. Regis, MT.  I don’t think you can get an outastate licence outastate!  

You can also get Idaho licenses in Missoula, at a big sporting goods store, the name of which I forget. — -Wayne Trzyna

Response:

Try telephoning (800)55HUNT5.  Idaho Fish & Game will mail within two weeks.  It’s a great service.  By the way, a neat way to contribute to Idaho’s trout is to buy a season’s license no matter how many days you intend to fish.  I’ve done it for years and it makes me feel good.  (p.s. I live in West Des Moines, Iowa)

Response:

: Can anyone suggest a location to purchase an Idaho fishing licence in either : Coeur D’Alene or Wallace?  I will be driving thru soon and need to pick up an : out-of-state licence.  I used to buy them in St. Regis, but they stopped : selling them. Stop in Coeur d’Alene at just about any gas station or store.  It’s risky to wait until Wallace… it’s a small town and besides… Wallace was destroyed by that volcano.  Didn’t you see the movie? —

You should have told him about St. Regis, MT.  I don’t think you can get an outastate licence outastate!   Go Vandals! john wheaton (boise & plummer) my opinion is always my own…

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Can anyone suggest a location to purchase an Idaho fishing licence in either Coeur D’Alene or Wallace?  I will be driving thru soon and need to pick up an out-of-state licence.  I used to buy them in St. Regis, but they stopped selling them. thanks! -John

Hi John In CDA you can get them at Tom’s Sportco on 4th St or in Wallace there is a sports shop (the name slips past right now) that is on the main st in town. Good luck on your trip. Email me how things turn out — I suspect you are going to the Joe. Take care & … — Tight Lines ….. Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products On line catalog – tips & tricks at: http://www.btsflyfishing.com

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: Can anyone suggest a location to purchase an Idaho fishing licence in either : Coeur D’Alene or Wallace?  I will be driving thru soon and need to pick up an : out-of-state licence.  I used to buy them in St. Regis, but they stopped : selling them. Stop in Coeur d’Alene at just about any gas station or store.  It’s risky to wait until Wallace… it’s a small town and besides… Wallace was destroyed by that volcano.  Didn’t you see the movie? — Rick T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher/ Associate professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    | ad hominem University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    | ad hominem Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. | ad hominem

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Can anyone suggest a location to purchase an Idaho fishing licence in either Coeur D’Alene or Wallace?  I will be driving thru soon and need to pick up an out-of-state licence.  I used to buy them in St. Regis, but they stopped selling them. thanks! -John

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Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve read about a trouts field of view and its ability to sense vibration/disturbance through its lateral line. Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another? Where I fish there are a lot of boulders and laurel. If I’m wearing subdued clothing and not splashing around, can a trout pick me out from the surrounding terrain? Find a copy of "In the Ring of the Rise" (Vincent Marinaro). More than you’ll ever want to know about trout vision… Cheers! /dave

Hi Dave I sure agree, V.Marinaro explains things very well. I especially remember him explaining about "one" hackle fiber on a pattern making the difference on catching or not catching fish. As I remember the hackle fiber was misplaced and extended over the eye of the hook or some-such. Good tying &… — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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I’ve read about a trouts field of view and its ability to sense vibration/disturbance through its lateral line. Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another? Where I fish there are a lot of boulders and laurel. If I’m wearing subdued clothing and not splashing around, can a trout pick me out from the surrounding terrain?

Find a copy of "In the Ring of the Rise" (Vincent Marinaro). More than you’ll ever want to know about trout vision… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.       Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus            Maynard, Massachusetts   < <        Charter Member of "Curmudgeons Unlimited"       < <<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely             to be shared by my employer, etc…

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I am of the belief that if I can see a fish, the actual fish spots ‘n all, not shadows or riseforms, then they can definately see me. The problem then becomes one of threatening behaviour ie moving

I think you’ve got it about right there, Steve. Andrew

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How well can trout REALLY see?

Too damn well! -AR

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How well can trout REALLY see? Too damn well! -AR

After 15+ years of testing how well wild brown trout see…here are some basic conclusions IMHO: 1) they react to objects no farther than 45 feet left, right, and front in ideal visibility conditions 2) they react to objects (birds) as high as 80 ft. overhead in ideal visibility conditions 3) their optimum eyesight is about 8X that of a human’s from 4 ft. to 1 inch. BobE.

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92 degree window of vision….the deeper they are, the bigger this window gets. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How well can trout REALLY see? Too damn well! -AR

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I’ll tell you what…I’m planning on taking a dark brown magic marker to those damned white letters on the waders I got for christmas. TimW

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Re: How well can trout REALLY see? How well can trout REALLY see? Too damn well! -AR

After 15+ years of testing how well wild brown trout see…here are some basic conclusions IMHO: 1) they react to objects no farther than 45 feet left, right, and front in ideal visibility conditions 2) they react to objects (birds) as high as 80 ft. overhead in ideal visibility conditions 3) their optimum eyesight is about 8X that of a human’s from 4 ft. to 1 inch. BobE. <<<<<<<< How do you define "8X that of a humans?".  What experiments did you actually perform?  Have you published in a peer review journal? William Buchman

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TimW — Ha! Ha! Just stay downstream…no need to worry. Seriously, I’d like to apologise to those who read my previous post about 8x vision…while I truly believe that *wild* browns (at least in my home waters) have this effective vision, the techniques I used to "prove" this to myself are not based on the kind of scientific procedure that I’d be willing to defend in public. I have done many of my own tests over the last 15 years to satisfy myself that the 8x figure is the accurate *effective* vision of a wild brown in certain (if not, most) feeding conditions…the theory has served me well, because using this principle my catch rate dramatically improved when I was actively fishing browns from 1982-1990, especially in spring creek and clear water habitates. It’s a long and complicated story that many flyfishers more knowledgeable than me (especially Dr. Bachman, TimW, Mr. Zink, Al Beatty, and a whole bunch more) could shoot a lot of holes thru. (Even I can shoot holes thru it.) When all is said and done, I don’t know for certain what and how well brown trout see. I just use the 8x as a rule of thumb to gage the quality of all brown trout flies I tie. Simply stated, I believe that if all tyers considered the 8x as a standard measurement to gage the quality of their flies they would catch a lot more trout …but only Seth Green knows this for sure. And, all of us have stories about the biggest trout we ever caught hitting a ragged and torn fly that looked terrible. From now on, I’ll be a little more cautious about spewing me theories. Thanks for your understanding. BobE. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ll tell you what…I’m planning on taking a dark brown magic marker to those damned white letters on the waders I got for christmas. TimW

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I’ll tell you what…I’m planning on taking a dark brown magic marker to those damned white letters on the waders I got for christmas. TimW

No Tim,  Those white letters are called Christmas cards.  All you need do is unstick them from your waders. If you have any further problems I am sure that there is a club nearby who hold beginners evenings and would be willing to help. Cheers Bruce….<g

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How well can trout REALLY see?

Really well, but not nearly as acutely as human’s.  There is evidence that trout see farther into the ultraviolet and infrared at least while fingerlings and again during spawning.  If Ralph Cutter happens to read this, he could probably give you the specifics of the color spectrum studies.  No one can really tell you exactly what they see though, because no one has ever come back from being a fish – at least not with any memory of it.   However, based on the biological make-up of their eyes  we have some good guesses.   On the human eye, the fovea (sp?)  is a small indentation "" on the back of the retina that is covered with cone cells (color receptors).  They are in a very high concentration in this spot with very few rod cells (black and white or low-light receptors) in evidence.  The lens of the human eye focuses light on this fovea and that’s what gives us the visual acuity (sharp & clear vision) we enjoy – at least for a while.  In low light the rod cells expand allowing us to see in black & white.  Because there are few rod cells in the fovea,  you will often see an object more clearly in low light if you look slightly off to the side of it.  This puts more light on the surrounding rod cells and allows you to see the target better even if it is with your peripheral vision. Trout’s eyes have both rod cells and cone cells on the retina of their eye.  During normal light conditions the cone cells are expanded – during low light, the cone cells recede and the rod cells expand allowing them to see by starlight.  The retina does not however have a fovea, nor does the lens of the eye focus the light on any one small spot on the retina.  Best guess is that although trout can see color all around and can judge distances well within a 30 degree cone in front of them (binocular vision) everything is still blurry even from 2" away.  Acuity is somewhat lacking. This is perhaps one of the reasons why they take a fly that has an otherwise obvious hook hanging from it.  Also helps explain why impressionist or imitative flies usually work much better than "realistic flies" which may match the natural perfectly.                                  Hope this helps,                                             Dan Dan Gracia Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools

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, I know that I’ve seen trout streak 8-10 feet, from deep down, to take a small dry fly in moving water.  I’ve also seen one rise to a cigarette butt.  And I’ve scattered them from just far enough away for a good cast.  Suffice to say, that a trout’s vision in water is analogous to your vision in air–they’ve adapted to survive and flourish, as have we (assuming I’m a human and not a fish).  I can’t tell you if trout have 20/20 vision, what we think they see is just the best guess, only the trout know for sure.  I don’t pay much attention to what I wear under my vest, but I am careful about moving slowly and casting shadows. Anglerboy

And don’t forget they can see behind underwater objects like rocks and tree branches by using the reflective mirror of the surface film outside the ‘window’, where they see through the surface. Avoid heavy footfalls on the river bank or when wading as their lateral line vibration sense is acute. I think that may be how seatrout (anadromous browns) can detect my size 14 black pennel on a pitch black night…. Pete Marrow   work:  http://www.gsrg.nmh.ac.uk/   play:  http://www.gorp.com/gorp/activity/scottish_ff_faq.htm

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There have been a number of recent posts presuming to know how well trout see.  My guess is that they are all WRONG!  Who can tell us about *experiments* that increase the liklihood of any of these assertions to be true. There are optical effects produced by a small flies that may attract trout even if they cannot see the fly clearly.  Certainly, even small dry flies dimple the surface of water causing light to refract in strange ways and cast fairly large shadows.  Glints off of peacock and various reflective materials may also attract attention.  A selective fish does not have to see the fly clearly.  It can wait until it gets close before making an eat or flee response. I make no assertions about how trout see or process information. William Buchman

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Well put – no one really knows (and hence the vendors can sell us anything…). However, I DO know that a golf ball has eyes and a brain.  Having tried to play golf I do know that balls that I find in the woods while looking for my ball soon will return there.  It would seem that these "wild" balls differ in their genetic makeup from the store-bought put-n-putt cousins… but I digress….. — Tim Wohlford, DO NOT SEND JUNK E-MAIL: "By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer meets the definition of a telephone fax machine.  By Sec.227(b)(1)(C), it is unlawful to send any unsolicited advertisement to such equipment.  By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is punishable by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500, whichever is greater, for each violation." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There have been a number of recent posts presuming to know how well trout see.  My guess is that they are all WRONG!  Who can tell us about *experiments* that increase the liklihood of any of these assertions to be true. There are optical effects produced by a small flies that may attract trout even if they cannot see the fly clearly.  Certainly, even small dry flies dimple the surface of water causing light to refract in strange ways and cast fairly large shadows.  Glints off of peacock and various reflective materials may also attract attention.  A selective fish does not have to see the fly clearly.  It can wait until it gets close before making an eat or flee response. I make no assertions about how trout see or process information. William Buchman

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I’ve read about a trouts field of view and its ability to sense vibration/disturbance through its lateral line. Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another? Where I fish there are a lot of boulders and laurel. If I’m wearing subdued clothing and not splashing around, can a trout pick me out from the surrounding terrain?

Though clothing is definetely a big consideration, I wouldn’t worry too much. You see, apparently even today’s most advanced trout can’t see well enough to detect the bend, point and barb of a hook. It’s amazing how these cunning, fabled creatures we pursue -which can supposedly detect the most microscopic details in color and size of the insects they are feeding on- somehow, time and time again, fail to notice the large, metallic-brown, bent, nasty-looking organ that is protruding from the crotch of every artificial fly that has ever been created. Fly fishing or lock-picking… Spinolio

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: I’ve read about a trouts field of view and its ability to sense : vibration/disturbance through its lateral line. Does anyone know how : well a trout can distinguish one object from another? Where I fish there : are a lot of boulders and laurel. If I’m wearing subdued clothing and : not splashing around, can a trout pick me out from the surrounding : terrain? : : Thanks in advance. Yes, no and maybe All the following occurred in bright sunny conditions about mid-day: Anecodote 1: at least 40 feet downstream of a fish tailing in 12" water … waved a fly away from my face, bow wave … one annoyed fish. Anecdote 2: next to, standing, a fish picking tasty morsels off a submerged log for 5 minutes.  Approached from downstream *verrrry* slowly with the sun behind and casting shadows away from the fish, probably could have tailed it if I’d been that way inclined, moved my rod arm something caught his eye … gone. Anecdote 3: fish hard against a bank in a riffly run, I’m within a rod length, a birds shadow made it change position then return after a minute or so.  Watching it feed, yup taking nymphs, scratched my nose … Gone. All three have a common thread, sudden or unexpected movement.   I am of the belief that if I can see a fish, the actual fish spots ‘n all, not shadows or riseforms, then they can definately see me. The problem then becomes one of threatening behaviour ie moving Steve Still in Melbourne, Australia.

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I’ve read about a trouts field of view and its ability to sense vibration/disturbance through its lateral line. Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another? Where I fish there are a lot of boulders and laurel. If I’m wearing subdued clothing and not splashing around, can a trout pick me out from the surrounding terrain? Thanks in advance.

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 Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another?

G & A, I know that I’ve seen trout streak 8-10 feet, from deep down, to take a small dry fly in moving water.  I’ve also seen one rise to a cigarette butt.  And I’ve scattered them from just far enough away for a good cast.  Suffice to say, that a trout’s vision in water is analogous to your vision in air–they’ve adapted to survive and flourish, as have we (assuming I’m a human and not a fish).  I can’t tell you if trout have 20/20 vision, what we think they see is just the best guess, only the trout know for sure.  I don’t pay much attention to what I wear under my vest, but I am careful about moving slowly and casting shadows. Anglerboy

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     Trout have excellent vision, especially character recognition.  I’ve found that they usually read the fishing regulations before the season opens, and on opening day take an extended vacation to parts unknown. el coyotero was here

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writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Does anyone know how well a trout can distinguish one object from another? G & A, I know that I’ve seen trout streak 8-10 feet, from deep down, to take a small dry fly in moving water.  I’ve also seen one rise to a cigarette butt.  And I’ve scattered them from just far enough away for a good cast.  Suffice to say, that a trout’s vision in water is analogous to your vision in air–they’ve adapted to survive and flourish, as have we (assuming I’m a human and not a fish).  I can’t tell you if trout have 20/20 vision, what we think they see is just the best guess, only the trout know for sure.  I don’t pay much attention to what I wear under my vest, but I am careful about moving slowly and casting shadows. Anglerboy

They can see better in smooth water vs. rippled water so you are more likely to spook trout in pools. Their eyes are placed on the sides of their heads so they have a wider angle of vision than we do. They can pick out a size #28 nymph without any problems. My best guess is that they see movement much better than we do. Their natural enemies (birds etc.) strike from above and food is also often found on the surface so they’re tuned into motion from above. Also they hear very well with a band of "ears" along their sides and can easily hear you stomping around on the banks long before they can see you in some cases. Good thing their brain is only the size of a pea. <G Don Burns

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Question:

        anyone tried fly fishing in either of these cpountries . i hear the fish are prolific. any info . please nick — | Mail sent via Demon Internet – Full IP for 10/Month Tel:0181 371 1234  |

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  anyone tried fly fishing in either of these cpountries . i hear the fish are prolific. any info . please

Look at http://www.club.innet.be/~pub00433/ (4k) —- Bloemfontein                | 9300                        | Republic of South Africa    |

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Question:

My wife and I are considering a summer vacation in the Keys and are interested in learning to fly fish.  I am soliciting information regarding fly fishing schools/camps that accommodate beginners (though I have been fishing for over 20 years (spinning)).  Any reco’s appreciated! TIA, Brian

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OK, ypu asked for it!!!….lol……. First I wouldn t go to the Key in the Simmertime…the heat is unbelieveable.. So, I suggest the Orvis School in Vermont….;or, the L L Bean School in Maine!!! However, here are some good dites in  the Keys; http://fla-keys.com:80/fishing/about.htm Flyfishing Keys http://fla-keys.com:80/fishing/index.htm Flyfishing Keys http://Florida-Keys.info-access.com:80/ here or the others: http://www.L L Bean.com http://www.alloutdoors.com/orvis/ My wife and I are considering a summer vacation in the Keys and are   interested in learning to fly fish.  I am soliciting information   regarding fly fishing schools/camps that accommodate beginners (though I   have been fishing for over 20 years (spinning)).  Any reco’s appreciated! TIA, Brian

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Question:

Does anyone on this newsgroup have current information on saltwater flyfishing at Christmas (Kiribati) Island?  In 1979 I spent some time on the island doing anthropological research and found the bonefishing fantastic.  They were interested at that time in promoting the sportfishing, especially the saltwater flyfishing from the reef.  There have been a couple of articles on the sportfishing in the mid ’80s but I haven’t seen anything recently. — Los Angeles Maritime Museum                                               NETCOM, the West Coast’s Leading Internet Service Provider.      (408) 554-8649

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I have been twice in 1988 and dec. 1994. It is the best bone fishing i have found for numbers of fish. I was there in Sept. of 88 and Dec. of 94. Largest of the two trips was 30 inches. Most weigh about 2-3 pounds. Good food and native guides are fine. I would suggest u hire an extra guide for yourself or for you and a friend if anyone goes with you. A young guide, NAREAU is the best I have used. MOANNA the most famous is now into the bottle pretty heavy and on our last trip he was quite undependable. If you need any other suggestions let me know. I would only book through FRONTIERS in Medford, Penna. good luck. Jack.

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Does anyone on this newsgroup have current information on saltwater flyfishing at Christmas (Kiribati) Island?  In 1979 I spent some time on the island doing anthropological research and found the bonefishing fantastic.  They were interested at that time in promoting the sportfishing, especially the saltwater flyfishing from the reef.  There have been a couple of articles on the sportfishing in the mid ’80s but I haven’t seen anything recently. —

Los Angeles Maritime Museum                                               NETCOM, the West Coast’s Leading Internet Service Provider.      (408)

554-8649 Regarding bone fishing on Christmas Island:  my husband and several of the other members of the Santa Cruz Fly Fishermen fished there last January. They booked their trip through a group called Fishabout, located in Los Gatos.  They have a P.O. Box:  1679, Los Gatos, CA 95031.  Contact either Howard McKinney or Kay Mitsyoshi, at 1-800-409-2000.  The group flew to Honolulu, then transferred to Air Nahru to Kiribati.  Their accomodations were in a small hotel, and their guides took them by boat out to the flats, where they fished, accompanied by the guide.  Everyone reported fine fishing and were satisfied with the package, so Kiribati is having some success promoting their bonefishing. Yours, Pat Steele

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Give any of the destination fly shops a call.  Christmas Island is a very popular bone destination these days.  I would reccomend The Fly Shop in Redding,  CA.  Ask for Mike, the owner… Good Luck, Mad Dog

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Kaufmann’s Streamborn has a lot of good information and experience with Christmas Island.  They have a great color catalog that you can full color photos of lots of travel destinations including Christmas Island.  They’ve got a new web page at http://www.teleport.com/~kman  You can also call them at 800/442-4359, and ask for Jerry.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Does anyone on this newsgroup have current information on saltwater flyfishing at Christmas (Kiribati) Island?  In 1979 I spent some time on the island doing anthropological research and found the bonefishing fantastic.  They were interested at that time in promoting the sportfishing, especially the saltwater flyfishing from the reef.  There have been a couple of articles on the sportfishing in the mid ’80s but I haven’t seen anything recently. — Los Angeles Maritime Museum                                               NETCOM, the West Coast’s Leading Internet Service Provider.      (408) 554-8649

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Question:

Can anyone recommend any fly-fishing lodges or camps in Saskatchewan? What is the status of fly-fishing in this area? -Phil Plumbo

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THere are excellent flyin in the Northern part of Saskatchewan.  The best time to fish IMHO is in late May or early June.  Contact the askatchewan tourism borad for a list of outfitters.  Some lakes have only pike, walleye but no Mack’s other have all three and even some grayling.  The depth of the lake determines the type of fish, e.g Mack’s Topwater FF for pike is a thrill and the explosion is like a backfire in the middle of a traffic wait! Good luck on your quest, you’ll love the people of Saskatchewan Cheers Patrick Maxon

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