Question:

   Back to the pond today

(snipped) These are lots of fun to read.  Thank you. — rbc:  vixen    Fairly harmless remove invalid or hit reply to email. Though I’m very slow to respond. http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

Stan, Do you have a link to a gurgler pattern? Do I have links!

excellent!! Thanks, Rob

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crystal chenille or Estaz body instead of a palmered hackle.

I seldom use anything but crystal chenille or estaz for body material. This includes the gurglers I tie for the huge hoppers we get around here about every other year. Those tied iin size 2/0 have caught 8 pound channel cats off the surface for me. They hove not been out this year, so I guess I have till next year till I die of a heart attack as I battle a huge catfish on a gurgler. I also have enjoyed this thread a hell of a lot. It has been tough for me this year as my favorite bluegill lake was drained a few months ago.  They also drained the lake where I have caught more bluegill that actualy weigh over a pound. Seems like my favorite waters are being ruined by folks that don’t know what the hell they are doing. Big Dale  

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Back to the pond today to worry the panfish population.

<… Todd, I’ve been enjoying your bluegill posts.  I’m a long time bluegill junkie myself – living in a place where the pond is 15 minutes from my door, and the nearest trout water is over twice that (also the only fishable trout water for 3/4 the population of Massachusetts in the summertime…). I went out three days this week, and had three completely different experiences.  There’s a saying about the weather in Massachusetts… Sunday was cold and rainy and the fish just weren’t interested in surface bugs, but I persisted.  I do like to fish subsurface, but I had my 4 wt. and didn’t want to mess with weighted nymphs.  I plugged away with my green gurglers and caught about a dozen fish – missed dozens more.  It was mostly small fish making a big show – coming out of the water to grab the fly, and being to small to take it under water.  I could just leave it sitting next to the rapidly fading lily pads, and several dinks would play with it, until finally a decent fish would make it’s move.  Funny, and lots of fun. I went out again Tuesday.  It had rained steadily all day Monday so I stayed dry and tied up a few more gurglers.  Tuesday was a real change in the weather.  In the mid 80s and mostly sunny.  When I got to the pond at 4:30 there was a huge midge hatch going on and bluegills were rising all over the pond.  So, I got to fish to risers all evening.  These fish aren’t fussy, and I would just plop the gurgler into a patch where there were working fish, and one would immediately jump on the fly.  The bluegills and orange and blue damsel flies were gorging on tiny red midge emergers and adults. The pond surface was almost carpeted by the bugs.  The fish were fat and happy, as was I. Wednesday was different again.  No midges coming off, no surface risers, but the big gills were back in shallow water.  The orange damsel flies were out in number and I switched to an orange gurgler.  Another 30+ fish evening. It’s supposed to be back into the low nineties over the weekend, so I’m looking forward to several more warm evenings out on the pond this week, –Stan

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The orange damsel flies were out in number and I switched to an orange gurgler.  Another 30+ fish evening.

Stan, Do you have a link to a gurgler pattern?  I just hit a local lake this week.  Could only stop by quickly on the way home 2 eves., last night picking up 4 bluegills in 20 minutes.  Two of them were nice sized…about the biggest I can recall catching…although they weren’t large fish.  One was probably about 6" or so and nice and fat.  Thinking about it some more, I’m not sure what type of [sun, pan] fish it was.  Nevertheless, the 2 big ones took hard causing my 4 wt click&pawl to sing for a second or so. — Rob

Response:

Stan, Do you have a link to a gurgler pattern?

Do I have links! Here’s the one I tied for the Dog Days Swaps (hey Paul…). http://gula.org/roffswaps/recipe.php?page=DD2002&id=8 Dale W tied a purple version, and Larry Schmitt tied a bumblebee variant. The ultimate source is Jack Gartside’s page: http://www.jackgartside.com/step_gurgler.htm There are lots of variants.  Most I see for smaller fish use a crystal chenille or Estaz body instead of a palmered hackle.

Response:

        Back to the pond today to worry the panfish population. Had the place to myself early.  Caught 8 on the Chironomid, but seemed the fish were deep.  It’d been cloudy most of the day, and calm.  Sun came out before I got off work, but was still relatively calm when I headed to the pond, and I thought I might get some dry fly action.  Of course, by the time I got there (< 10 minutes), the wind had picked up and no surface action to be seen.  Tied on my last bead-head scud, and picked up 10 more bluegill. Then the action took a break.         About that time, a somewhat scruffy looking young couple arrived on scene.  The guy asked me if the trout were biting (of course, to the uninitiated, fly fishing is for trout… .  Told him I was working the bluegill, and had brought in 18 to that point. He asked how deep, etc.  Clued him in as to what I thought the proper depth was, and he and his wife/girlfriend rigged up their bobber rigs and set about attempting to catch some for themselves.  They didn’t look like they had the proveribal pot to pee in, or a window to throw it out.  Asked me what an "eating size" bluegill would be.  Figured they were there to get some subsistance eats.         Got the bead-head scud hung up in cattails, and lost it. Back to Chironomids.  Went to the opposite side of the pond so as not to worry them with my casting.  Figured out the proper retrieve to connect with fish again, and proceeded to get a good run going.  The couple weren’t having much luck that I could tell, watching out of the corner of my eye.         In the span of about 40 minutes, I brought another 22 bluegill to hand.  Fast and furious action.  Even managed to catch a couple big ones.  Walked over to the couple and handed the two big ones to them, and said "these ought to be good eating size".  They thanked me profusely, and I packed up my rod at that point and went home. Felt a good bit guilty that I was hauling fish out of the water right and left when they weren’t getting much action, and probably in need of some victuals (not to mention releasing all of mine).         I hope they enjoyed the fish dinner.  Know all too well how it was to be young and hungry.  Game & Fish is going to kill out the pond later this fall anyhow and restock it in the spring, so better to give a few fish to someone in need than have them all go to waste, as it were.  Went home feeling good in more than a few ways. Todd

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Question:

Tracey <rbranc…@mediaone.net> wrote in message

news:3A96A46C.45DF0E68@mediaone.net… > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it > >would cause marital problems. > If *both* are involved (and are devoted to it), it doesn’t seem > like it’s a cause of problems. > — > Tracey

My mistake…I suppose there could be occasions where this would not cause problems.  (shudders) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Indigo: What sailors do when they see a bar >                      —Funky Winkerbean—

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Jadelee111512 <jadelee111…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20010223130358.05491.00000364@ng-co1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >From: "B and B" > >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! > >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! > >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not > >becoming one. > >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause > >marital problems. > >Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message > >news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… > >> Just a fishing question here. > >> Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does they way > >> of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > >> Kevin > At the very least, this inquiry could bring up an intersting topic regarding > different professions and the effect they might have  on the marriage. Amway > is one of many that has the potential to create its own set of problems within > a relationship. > jadelee

Being a phone sex operator can grate on a marriage too.  And so can just about any occupation where a lot of travel is involved.

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I do not know what Amway work is. Is it a fortune 500 club? momalot – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jadelee111512 wrote: > >From: "B and B" > >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! > >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! > >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not > >becoming one. > >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause > >marital problems. > >Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message > >news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… > >> Just a fishing question here. > >> Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does they way > >> of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > >> Kevin > At the very least, this inquiry could bring up an intersting topic regarding > different professions and the effect they might have  on the marriage.  Amway > is one of many that has the potential to create its own set of problems within > a relationship. > jadelee

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Tracey wrote: > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it > >would cause marital problems. > If *both* are involved (and are devoted to it), it doesn’t seem > like it’s a cause of problems.

That would be tres cool, if you think about it.  They could sell each other stuff ad nauseam and be filthy rich in no time, right? Ponzi 1, do you take Ponzi 2 to be your lawful wedded… Drew

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> I do not know what Amway work is. Is it a fortune 500 club? > momalot

www.amway.com shepette  (who used to like momalot’s posts, too bad we’ve now lost her to the underworld of amway…)

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Ahhh, I see what it is now. Thanks for the link, btw. In my area we have "Stanley" , I think it’s a lot like Amway. Not my cup a tea. momalot – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Shepette wrote: > > I do not know what Amway work is. Is it a fortune 500 club? > > momalot > www.amway.com > shepette  (who used to like momalot’s posts, too bad we’ve now lost her to > the underworld of amway…)

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ROFLOL ISIS "momalot" <dadalotmoma…@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:3A96B436.6E33A6DB@hotmail.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I do not know what Amway work is. Is it a fortune 500 club? > momalot > Jadelee111512 wrote: > > >From: "B and B" > > >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! > > >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! > > >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not > > >becoming one. > > >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality > > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause > > >marital problems. > > >Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message > > >news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… > > >> Just a fishing question here. > > >> Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does they way > > >> of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > > >> Kevin > > At the very least, this inquiry could bring up an intersting topic regarding > > different professions and the effect they might have  on the marriage. Amway > > is one of many that has the potential to create its own set of problems within > > a relationship. > > jadelee

Response:

Run fast and far. — JWB remove spamkiller to reply via e-mail "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message

news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just a fishing question here. > Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their way > of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > Kevin

Response:

I agree with that, but Amway is in a class by itself. Amway’s just……… creepy — JWB remove spamkiller to reply via e-mail "Jadelee111512" <jadelee111…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20010223130358.05491.00000364@ng-co1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >From: "B and B" > >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! > >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! > >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not > >becoming one. > >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause > >marital problems. > >Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message > >news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… > >> Just a fishing question here. > >> Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does they way > >> of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > >> Kevin > At the very least, this inquiry could bring up an intersting topic regarding > different professions and the effect they might have  on the marriage. Amway > is one of many that has the potential to create its own set of problems within > a relationship. > jadelee

Response:

On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:11:14 -0500, "B and B" <baboonnliz…@prodigy.net> wrote: >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not >becoming one. >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause >marital problems.

Nitpick Dept:  Most Borg vessels are cubes, not spheres.

Response:

>From: "B and B" >Being a phone sex operator can grate on a marriage too.  And so can just >about any occupation where a lot of travel is involved.

Those are examples of a few.  Any high stress job has a potential to effect a marriage. Too many to name.  We are not well prepared to handle the stressors of jobs and marriage. jadelee

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"B and B" wrote: >Being a phone sex operator can grate on a marriage too.  And so can just >about any occupation where a lot of travel is involved.

I could see how a lot of travel could grate on a marriage. Mom, for example, got more than just a bit fed up being home alone with the kids while dad was always out on the road selling insurance. He finally had to give it up, trading it in for teaching highschool and regular home hours. On the other hand, a tiny bit of work travel can be good for a marriage. For example, I’m happy for the time I have with my wife, but for the three or four times a year she’s off to trade shows, I enjoy that solitude time as well. As well, there have also been at least a few of her work trips where I’ve come along, we’ve extended our stay, and made a vacation of the situation more economically than if we had to pay the full shot for travel ourselves. So to my own family experiences at least, a lot of occupational travel can add to marital stress, where as a bit of occupational travel can actually be more beneficial to a marital relationship than none at all. CJ

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Our relationshio has various small problems ie… insistence on using only Amway products (even if I don,t like that particular product) Granted Amway has some good products, But as any Company does they also have some bad ones or just plain some too expensive ones. I love my wife with all my heart, sometimes tho it seems that the Amway brainwashing borders on the ridiculous. By the way I am a former Amway brainwashee so I do know the other side and underrstand how they think. I was pretty disturbed by the way the marketing was carried out and the type of person I was turning out to be when I was involved. Thanks for all the response, keep it coming Kevin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text —— Original Message —– From: CupCaked <karensSP…@nac.net> Newsgroups: alt.support.marriage Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Amway > "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > >Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their way > >of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > That’s a VERY provocative question.  May I ask what brought it about? >    http://www.cupcaked.com/cupcaked >  (and leave off the "potatoes" CupCaked <karensSP…@nac.net> wrote in message news:3aa09f57.22892148@news.nac.net… > "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > >Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their way > >of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > That’s a VERY provocative question.  May I ask what brought it about? >    http://www.cupcaked.com/cupcaked >  (and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail)

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I’ve always had the belief that Amway will ruin a relationship unless both partners are in it 100%. Let me guess – your wife makes next to nothing in real profit, but "will… someday" — JWB remove spamkiller to reply via e-mail "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message

news:t9frefdafcame5@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Our relationshio has various small problems ie… insistence on using only > Amway products (even if I don,t like that particular product) Granted Amway > has some good products, But as any Company does they also have some bad ones > or just plain some too expensive ones. I love my wife with all my heart, > sometimes tho it seems that the Amway brainwashing borders on the > ridiculous. By the way I am a former Amway brainwashee so I do know the > other side and underrstand how they think. I was pretty disturbed by the way > the marketing was carried out and the type of person I was turning out to be > when I was involved. > Thanks for all the response, keep it coming > Kevin > —– Original Message —– > From: CupCaked <karensSP…@nac.net> > Newsgroups: alt.support.marriage > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 9:36 AM > Subject: Re: Amway > > "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > > >Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their > way > > >of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > > That’s a VERY provocative question.  May I ask what brought it about? > >    http://www.cupcaked.com/cupcaked > >  (and leave off the "potatoes" > CupCaked <karensSP…@nac.net> wrote in message > news:3aa09f57.22892148@news.nac.net… > > "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > > >Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their > way > > >of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > > That’s a VERY provocative question.  May I ask what brought it about? > >    http://www.cupcaked.com/cupcaked > >  (and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail)

Response:

Hi Kevin, I’m not a distributor, but I do know a few.  A co-worker was married 16 years when "they" got started in "the business".  That was about 6 years ago.  Their divorce was final last summer.  W said he was never home and found someone to fill in the gap.  Another co-worker says it ruined her daughter’s first marriage for the same reason – one of the two of them was always chasing a sale or going off to one function or another.  Another couple  that I know make it work, but that’s because they literally do it side by side.  As I understand the way that it’s structured, it’s together….on NOT.  Figuratively and literally. I hope this is somewhat of an answer for you. — – First Light     @——-We are each of us angels with only one wing; and it’s when we embrace each other that we can fly.—-/—@ "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message

news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just a fishing question here. > Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their way > of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > Kevin

Response:

The company as a whole is successful. But the people in it, overwhelmingly, are not. They get you in for a year or two, the suckers buy *everything* they use/own through amway, then they realize they are making *zero* monry, and they drop out. They seem to recruit from the lower-middle / middle class mostly. The people easiest to sell "the good life" to, as those people will believe it. The poor usually won’t, and generally won’t have the ambition the follow through (and afford the initial "kit"). But the middle class will put the kit on the credit card, charge a few suits (for the weekly "pump me ups"), and generally feel proud for awhile that they have a "business". They get nice little business cards made, and listen to Zig-Zigler tell them how great life can be. Most of them are smiling on the outside and putting up a successful "front" (wearing clothing and taking trips they cannot afford, so they can "keep up"…. really. I had several friends in Amway. They would charge a new suit, and fly to Florida for a three hour meeting, and fly home the same day. stuff they could hardly afford to do – but Amway made them feel like they couldn’t afford NOT to – it’s a bizzare company). Anyway, I’ve rambled enough. I’ve seen this company close up, and see what it does to people. It’s sad. — JWB remove spamkiller to reply via e-mail "IgOr" <ignora…@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message

news:slrn99h3mt.4j4.ignoramus@nospam.invalid… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > * Our relationshio has various small problems ie… insistence on using only > * Amway products (even if I don,t like that particular product) Granted Amway > * has some good products, But as any Company does they also have some bad ones > * or just plain some too expensive ones. I love my wife with all my heart, > * sometimes tho it seems that the Amway brainwashing borders on the > * ridiculous. By the way I am a former Amway brainwashee so I do know the > * other side and underrstand how they think. I was pretty disturbed by the way > * the marketing was carried out and the type of person I was turning out to be > * when I was involved. > That’s interesting. So, what kind of brainswashing do they do? What > kinds of people do they recruit? Why are they successful? > igor > * Thanks for all the response, keep it coming > * > * Kevin > * —– Original Message —– > * From: CupCaked <karensSP…@nac.net> > * Newsgroups: alt.support.marriage > * Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 9:36 AM > * Subject: Re: Amway > * > * > * > "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > * > > * > >Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their > * way > * > >of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > * > > * > That’s a VERY provocative question.  May I ask what brought it about? > * > > * > > * > > * >    http://www.cupcaked.com/cupcaked > * >  (and leave off the "potatoes" > * CupCaked <karensSP…@nac.net> wrote in message > * news:3aa09f57.22892148@news.nac.net… > * > "Kevin Stone" <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote: > * > > * > >Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their > * way > * > >of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > * > > * > That’s a VERY provocative question.  May I ask what brought it about? > * > > * > > * > > * >    http://www.cupcaked.com/cupcaked > * >  (and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail) > * > * > — > Don’t sweat the petty things and don’t pet the sweaty things. – George

Carlin

Response:

As I’ve seen it described here and as I’ve seen it out here in RL, Amway is a religion of sorts.  It’s things like this that make me jest the concept of religion. ISIS "IgOr" <ignora…@NOSPAM.invalid> wrote in message

news:slrn99j39n.jm9.ignoramus@nospam.invalid… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Dan Kegel <d…@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote: > * First Light wrote: > * > I’m not a distributor, but I do know a few.  A co-worker was married 16 > * > years when "they" got started in "the business".  That was about 6 years > * > ago.  Their divorce was final last summer.  W said he was never home and > * > found someone to fill in the gap.  Another co-worker says it ruined her > * > daughter’s first marriage for the same reason – one of the two of them was > * > always chasing a sale or going off to one function or another. Another > * > couple  that I know make it work, but that’s because they literally do it > * > side by side.  As I understand the way that it’s structured, it’s > * > together….[or] NOT.  Figuratively and literally. > * > * Yep.  Amway is a lot like a charismatic church… > * there are plenty of fine people in it, but they believe weird things > I have yet to see a "fine" person in MLM. Fine people tend to not like > lying constantly. > — > Don’t sweat the petty things and don’t pet the sweaty things. – George

Carlin

Response:

Larry Kessler <l_k_e_s_s_l_e_r@w_t_._n_e_t> wrote in message

news:4cee9tksrq1jrfqniogd52t0emakba5sn3@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:11:14 -0500, "B and B" > <baboonnliz…@prodigy.net> wrote: > >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! > >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! > >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not > >becoming one. > >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality > >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause > >marital problems. > Nitpick Dept:  Most Borg vessels are cubes, not spheres.

Depends on which star trek you are watching.

Response:

"John Kendricks" <jd…@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:3a99948c.245820765@news.cis.dfn.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Everything you have said is true.  Amway (also now known as Quixtar) > preys on people who cannot afford the things or the lifestyle they > want, and brainwashes them to believe that if they will attend > frequent seminars, spend all their time listening to brainwashing > tapes, buy exclusively from amway or quixtar, and pester their > friends, relatives, coworkers, aquaintances,  people in malls, etc. > nonstop, they will become fabulously wealthy. > Here are some good amway-info links: > http://www.awod.com/gallery/rwav/slarsen/amway.html > http://skepdic.com/amway.html > http://www.apollowebworks.com/amway/ > http://www.freedomofmind.com/groups/amway/amo_qmo.htm > If anyone reading this is planning on getting involved with amway or > quixtar, or is already involved with them, reading the above links > could be the single most important thing you ever do to save yourself > much suffering, misery and agony.

I’ve found that these people who are ‘Quixtar/Amway Critics’ have no credibility at all on the subject, they are usually the most screwed-up-broke-done-nothing-in-life people I’ve ever met. Why on earth would I want to fill my head with a bunch garbage from people who have no credibility in the area of success?  I seriously doubt that these people ‘got in’ then ‘quit’ (actually quit something they probably didn’t put hardly any effort toward) and then when on to be successfull fathers, husbands, entreprenuers, race car drivers or anything.  I bet the the only good things they end up being good at is: justification & rationalization of why they are where they are finanically, complaining, remote control operation and butt print formation (in couch cushions). I’ve seen all sorts of different levels of success in this business opportunity and I’ve seen it actually pull dozens (probably 100s) of marriages together, and these are indirect benefits from any kind of prosperity.  For postive results like these, it requires to a certain amount of effort just like any kind of  business opportunity, job, church, etc. and if a person is too busy (translates to lazy) to apply himself  and put forth effort than he is going to fail. This IS the best business opportunity I have ever seen it provides a level playing field for everyone.  It is structured to make money and the business plan works only if you work it.  Depending upon where you are personally, mentally and emotionally, you may need to learn and develop some personal and business skills that will enable you to build a successful business.  So in order to succeed learn how to learn from someone who has already done what you want to do.  The main goal of business is to make money and this opportunity is a great way to get the money obstacle hurdled in your life unlike most jobs out there.  Jobs are simply not structured to create any kind of wealth for the employee. It IS NOT a religion, if any body tries to enforce their beliefs on you concerning your faith in your creator, they are off base.  This applies to anywhere in life including your boss at your job. Good business is never built on deception and if someone is using any kind of deceptive tactics then you should address this issue directly don’t give up until you are satisfied.  I’ve found that the truly successfull people in this business are very direct, honest and trustworthy; the business is structured so that success is based upon success and it is in nobody’s interest to decieve anybody. If you’re checking out this business, remember to consider the credibility of the person who is providing the information. And make sure to check it out for yourself and don’t listen to broke people or negative attitudes. Good Luck to you in what ever you decide to do -but decide to do something!

Response:

First Light wrote: > I’m not a distributor, but I do know a few.  A co-worker was married 16 > years when "they" got started in "the business".  That was about 6 years > ago.  Their divorce was final last summer.  W said he was never home and > found someone to fill in the gap.  Another co-worker says it ruined her > daughter’s first marriage for the same reason – one of the two of them was > always chasing a sale or going off to one function or another.  Another > couple  that I know make it work, but that’s because they literally do it > side by side.  As I understand the way that it’s structured, it’s > together….[or] NOT.  Figuratively and literally.

Yep.  Amway is a lot like a charismatic church… there are plenty of fine people in it, but they believe weird things – Dan

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Everything you have said is true.  Amway (also now known as Quixtar) preys on people who cannot afford the things or the lifestyle they want, and brainwashes them to believe that if they will attend frequent seminars, spend all their time listening to brainwashing tapes, buy exclusively from amway or quixtar, and pester their friends, relatives, coworkers, aquaintances,  people in malls, etc. nonstop, they will become fabulously wealthy. Here are some good amway-info links: http://www.awod.com/gallery/rwav/slarsen/amway.html http://skepdic.com/amway.html http://www.apollowebworks.com/amway/ http://www.freedomofmind.com/groups/amway/amo_qmo.htm If anyone reading this is planning on getting involved with amway or quixtar, or is already involved with them, reading the above links could be the single most important thing you ever do to save yourself much suffering, misery and agony.

Response:

Just a fishing question here. Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their way of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? Kevin

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Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! Stay away!  Stay away!!!! Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not becoming one. Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause marital problems. Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message

news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just a fishing question here. > Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does their way > of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? > Kevin

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>of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it >would cause marital problems.

If *both* are involved (and are devoted to it), it doesn’t seem like it’s a cause of problems. — Tracey Indigo: What sailors do when they see a bar                      —Funky Winkerbean—

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->From: "B and B" >Aaaauuugggghhhh!!!!!!!!!! >Stay away!  Stay away!!!! >Oh, wait.  You were asking about being married to an amway distributor, not >becoming one. >Well…I don’t know what to tell you, but given the "borg sphere" mentality >of everyone I have ever met who was into that I can believe it would cause >marital problems. >Kevin Stone <kdstone…@vermontel.net> wrote in message >news:t9d626mr61ho47@corp.supernews.com… >> Just a fishing question here. >> Does anyone here have a spouse who is an Amway distributor? Does they way >> of doing business or actions cause problems in your marriage? >> Kevin

At the very least, this inquiry could bring up an intersting topic regarding different professions and the effect they might have  on the marriage.  Amway is one of many that has the potential to create its own set of problems within a relationship. jadelee

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Question:

Would appreciate info on traveling to and in Belize. We love Costa Rica, but would like to do something different. Thanks. G&G

Response:

Hi G&G, I know a lot about fishing the coast of Belize from our fly fishing travel service for the last 16 years, but for some of the best info on Belize if you are not into salt water fly fishing, email Margie Perez at the International Airport just out of Belize City. She has a travel agency right at the airport and can tell you everything about Belize and help arrange your trip. She use to work for one of the Belizean airlines and really knows the entire country well. Many companies like ours and the big Orvis Company use Margie for help with their groups going to Belize. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Fishing Travel & Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com 800/4000FLY

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Would appreciate info on traveling to and in Belize. We love Costa Rica, but would like to do something different. Thanks. G&G

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Question:

[stuff I agree with snipped] With the Fuji’s you don’t really lose anything over a conventional snake guide, but you pick up some advantages.

[more good stuff snipped], but… one thing about snake guides is that for a given "size", the hole is actually "bigger" than a comparably sized Fuji guide since the Fujis are closed circles and the snakes are helical. My experience is that knots and tangles more easily shake free through snakes than through Fujis.  However, with knots that have a tag end that sticks out a little, the snakes (since they are thin wires) tend to grab them more often than do the Fujis.   Mu

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I don’t know about wood grips outside of cork, but for guides, go with the Fuji ring guides.  I learned something this weekend that will help a bit even with them.  If you use 3 or more of the LSG-7J’s, make the one nearest the tip a UNSG-7J, on a 9′ rod use this guide for your last 2.  Also use an FST-7 tip.  These guides and tip are part of Fuji’s new concept line, and while the ring size remains unchanged, the ring height is lower, helping to bring the line closer to the blank in the last foot or so of the rod rather than all at once between the last guide and the tip.  The frame on the UNSG is also lighter than that of the LSG. If you want to use single leg wire guides, go for one that is coated rather than plated.  Plating will almost always peel, while coated (metal sprayed) guides should last quite a while.  There are many varieties of coatings available today and it’s a six of one, half a dozen of the other situation as to which is best.  As long as they come from a reputable source, you can choose for color and still get a great performing guide.  For salt water applications, I would go with a wire guide of some sort.  The insert guides will foul with salt buildup much quicker than wire guides. A good place for wood on a fly rod is in the reel seat.  For a 3 wt, a cork or wood seat with rings would be the thing to have.

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For salt water applications, I would go with a wire guide of some sort.  The insert guides will foul with salt buildup much quicker than wire guides.

I’ve heard that before.  I wonder why it’s so.  Is it just becasue there is greater surface area on a ceramic guide? Mu

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I’ve heard that same thing, but I’ve fished both types of guides quite a lot in salt water and have never found there to be much of a difference.  in either case, if salt DOES crust up on the guides, just swish it through the water back and forth a couple of times and it will be clear again. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – For salt water applications, I would go with a wire guide of some sort.  The insert guides will foul with salt buildup much quicker than wire guides. I’ve heard that before.  I wonder why it’s so.  Is it just becasue there is greater surface area on a ceramic guide? Mu

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I am in the process of building my ulitmate lightweight rod and I have the ability to examine a few options I haven’t been able to afford in years past. I have never fished with a rod that has a wood handle but I like the look of the rods that are built with them.  Is Cocobolo or rosewood going to add significant weight to a 3 wt. rod compared to cork?  Any disadvantages to fishing with wood vs. cork handles?  Do they get uncomfortable after awhile? Next question.  I think I want to build this rod with single foot guides vs. double.  Again, I have never owned a rod with single foot guides.  The reduction in weight and the increased flexibility in the rod are attractive traits to gain.  What do I loose compared to a double foot guide? Last question.  I have had a fly shop owner try to tell me that the gold guides wear out a lot faster then the titanium coated guides.  Has anybody had first hand experience with this or was he just trying to sell me what he had vs. losing my buisness. Thanks

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– "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

I am in the process of building my ulitmate lightweight rod and I have the ability to examine a few options I haven’t been able to afford in years past. I have never fished with a rod that has a wood handle but I like the look of the rods that are built with them.  Is Cocobolo or rosewood going to add significant weight to a 3 wt. rod compared to cork?  Any disadvantages to fishing with wood vs. cork handles?  Do they get uncomfortable after awhile?

Complete wooden handles get slippery and difficult to hold very quickly, especially after handling fish or with wet hands. They also feel much colder to the touch, and the sensation of cold hands is very unpleasant after a while. Next question.  I think I want to build this rod with single foot guides vs. double.  Again, I have never owned a rod with single foot guides.  The reduction in weight and the increased flexibility in the rod are attractive traits to gain.  What do I loose compared to a double foot guide?

Basically some stability.  If you knock a single foot ring it will be more liable to slip than if you knocked a double foot ring. There is no appreciable increase in flexibility when using single foot as opposed to double foot rings.  The best rings for small lightweight fly-rods are probably snakes. Last question.  I have had a fly shop owner try to tell me that the gold guides wear out a lot faster then the titanium coated guides.  Has anybody had first hand experience with this or was he just trying to sell me what he had vs. losing my buisness.

Gold plated guides are useless, gold is a very soft metal, and will wear out in no time.  Titanium nitride is a gold coloured coating often used to protect HSS cutting surfaces. It is commonly used in industry for the tips of drill bits and similar tools as it is extremely tough and hard. Many modern guides have this protective coating.  Various oxides of metal are used as protective coatings for various metals, aluminium oxide for instance, among others. These vary in colour, but in the natural state are usually a dull grey. Many modern high performance guides have highly polished ceramic inserts made of sintered ceramic/metal oxide mixtures. Some snake rings are coated with special coatings, such as Titanium nitride for toughness and hardness. Practically any top quality guides from a reputable maker are suitable for fly-rods. Many people like the Fuji titanium guides or the gold cermets, which are expensive, but according to many people the best available. The URL is    http://www.fujitackle.com/eindex.html Further info is at :   http://www.mudhole.com/docs/fuji.html and  :   http://www.shofftackle.com/fujialum.html This should provide all the information you require. TL MC

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Wooden handles are also a lot heavier than cork handles. ( I forgot that in the previous post ).  Often a combination of hardwood and aluminium is used as a butt and reel seat, with cork as the grip. One other URL which might be of interest to you is : http://www.jannsnetcraft.com — "In order to achieve what is possible, one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de

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Practically any top quality guides from a reputable maker are suitable for fly-rods. Many people like the Fuji titanium guides or the gold cermets, which are expensive, but according to many people the best available.

I use the Fuji’s (cermets) on my 5wt. They absolutely sing. Flexability isn’t necessarily the issue, it’s drag on the line. Fuji’s have much less drag than snake eyes. Flyfish

Response:

I am in the process of building my ulitmate lightweight rod and I have the ability to examine a few options I haven’t been able to afford in years past. I have never fished with a rod that has a wood handle but I like the look of the rods that are built with them.  Is Cocobolo or rosewood going to add significant weight to a 3 wt. rod compared to cork?  Any disadvantages to fishing with wood vs. cork handles?  Do they get uncomfortable after awhile?

I wouldn’t advise the wooden handles.  I’m an avid woodturner as well as a flyfisherman, and I’ve tried to do this in the past.  Wooden handles are hard on the hands, tend to be slippery, and are cold in the winter.  They also have a tendency to absorb water and check/distort.  Lastly, they are rigid, which can be a problem, especially with slower action light rods.  A cork handle will flex with the blank, while a wooden handle will remain rigid and concentrate stress at the upper end of the handle where the blank exits. Next question.  I think I want to build this rod with single foot guides vs. double.  Again, I have never owned a rod with single foot guides.  The reduction in weight and the increased flexibility in the rod are attractive traits to gain.  What do I loose compared to a double foot guide?

This is a religious issue.  I build a lot of rods, and personally I prefer the Fuji single-foot guides.  I don’t recommend the "single-foot snake" guides that have shown up in the last few years, as I’ve found them to add little value and to be a bit fragile.   With the Fuji’s you don’t really lose anything over a conventional snake guide, but you pick up some advantages.  Among these are fewer wraps, which will reduce both time to build the rod and weight.  You also get better line control, improved shooting characteristics, and longer life from the guides.  Keep in mind, though, that’s my opinion – your mileage may vary. Last question.  I have had a fly shop owner try to tell me that the gold guides wear out a lot faster then the titanium coated guides.  Has anybody had first hand experience with this or was he just trying to sell me what he had vs. losing my buisness.

I’m not aware of a true "gold-coated" guide.  The golden colored guides that I’ve seen are plated with titanium nitride, which will substantially improve their wear resistance.  Personally, I tend to use Fuji’s solid titanium frame guides, with a silicon carbide insert ring.   They’re lighter than snake guides, and the titanium frames are virtually immune to corrosion – something to consider for extremely light rods or those that will be used in salt water environments. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks

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I use the Fuji’s (cermets) on my 5wt. They absolutely sing. Flexability isn’t necessarily the issue, it’s drag on the line. Fuji’s have much less drag than snake eyes.

I’ll second that! They are bloody expensive, but I have Fuji cermet lined titanium framed rings on only three of my rods – the three that I use most. In future, I probably wouldn’t bother specifying Ti frames on the big butt stripping rings (or the next one up) since these guides are so far back down the rod and close to the rod hand that the few grammes saving in mass makes bugger all difference to anything. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

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Question:

Wayne Knight: (envious story snipped) Oh yea, I’ve still never been stumped in MO

Here we are sittin’ out a snow storm and you’re fishing!  ’Tain’t fair.  It was a good day, Wayne, just to be out there. Dave L.

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Ok, Forty you asked for it….

Thanks, big guy. Always nice to read of a friends fishin’ trip while stuck up here in the snow. — Ken Fortenberry

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Ok, Forty you asked for it…. Thanks, big guy. Always nice to read of a friends fishin’ trip while stuck up here in the snow.

FWIW, they are calling for snow here tonight and tomorrow. Sure hope it does not impede my flight home to Geneva on Friday. Hopefully tho, my daughter will have the driveway and sidewalks shoveled for me by the time I do get home. — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

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[trip snip] Thank you Kerry for a great time, and if any of you out there ever decide to visit SW Missouri for a little fishing, be sure and drop Kerry an email. Oh yea, I’ve still never been stumped in MO — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Y’know that’s really cruel to post such a report to the snowbound.  :)

Response:

Ok, Forty you asked for it…. I drove out of Kansas to Aurora Mo this past weekend where I met up with Kerry Evans, a contributor to the board, and a long time resident of SW Missouri. Crane is a creek I’ve been hearing about for about a year and wanted to try, plus it is about the closest real trout water to Halstead KS, being only 260 miles away, and whatever it’s faults as a fishing destination, eastern Kansas has some damn good roads <g. All things being equal, I would have prefered to let the weather change a little more but not having seen a trout since October I was going through withdrawal symptons. After meeting for breakfast, I followed Kerry to the creek. Yup the water is low, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelly low, and it was is gin clear. The only other time I’ve seen water this clear has been in WI spring creeks in the fall, never in the winter. Kerry did his best to put me over fish, even though the water was low, there were enough deep pools to support fish. Funny thing with a couple of exceptions we would fish the pools and see nothing and then cross the stream in 6" water and see fish scattering away from us…..There was this one pool which we saw several fish, but just could not get them to take our offerings. We did find some rising fish and we did our best to put them down Being winter, while there was some insect activity on the surface, the bugs were small. A size 20 Griffith’s Gnat might as well been a #10 Green Drake, these bugs were that small. Yours truly at the start was casting, if you want to call it that, as if I was just learning what a fly rod was having forgot my backcast, drink, forward cast routine…..and I probably had a false since of security, it being winter and all was not being too careful with the brush around the stream. I admit, I was cocky, I had never been stumped in Missouri before and really did not want to stealth my overweight out of shape self. Kerry was great, he is a fine fly fisher, a super guy, and to boot, he builds a rather nice rod too. But as sometimes happen, he too could not connect fly with fish. Finally, about halfway down the section we were fishing, we came upon a pool with two risers, Kerry being the gracious host he was, offered the pool to me. I figured screw it on the small stuff and tied on a favorite Michigan pattern, a size 14 parachute Robert’s Drake figuring that maybe the bow’s wanted a real meal for a change. After deteriming the first riser was a little one, I did my best Fortenberry imitation and slid along the pool side and side armed cast the drake under a tree branch to the other riser…..I was rewarded with a healthy bow which turned out to be the only fish of the day. Though the fishing was tough, and frankly had we been a little more careful, we might have been better rewarded, but we only saw one other fisherman and last we checked, he had not been successful. The creek needs some water but I will be back and will be better prepared next time. I bet in spring and fall colors the stream scenery is just dynamite. And Kerry told me about some other streams which have not been written about, they will stay a secret but I will be visiting them too! Thank you Kerry for a great time, and if any of you out there ever decide to visit SW Missouri for a little fishing, be sure and drop Kerry an email. Oh yea, I’ve still never been stumped in MO — Wayne Knight Expert in creating tailing loops and windknots Otherwise Fishless in Kansas Before you buy.

Response:

Question:

Does anyone have contact information for the NY State Guides Association? I would like to find out what the requirements are for certification.

Response:

Does anyone have contact information for the NY State Guides Association? I would like to find out what the requirements are for certification.

Michael, The phone number for NYSOGA is 518 798 1253.  Good luck. James Ehlers NYSOGA Member Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service 1997 Guide of the Year Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

Response:

Mike – Contact the DEC in Raybrooke, NY (area code 518) and they can refer you to the proper office which will mail out an aplication form as well as requirements. What is required for the Backpacking/Hiking & Camping Licence: (If I remember correctly) -Passing a Physical Exam from your Doctor, -Basic First Aid AND Water Safety Course OR  Advanced First Aid (Includes Water Safety course) -Taking a 2 or 3 hour test at your Regional DEC Office (Core plus area of  specialty  -Climbing/Hiking & Backpacking/Canoeing/Camping…) -Fee of around $50-$75 Good Luck Rick Does anyone have contact information for the NY State Guides Association? I would like to find out what the requirements are for certification.

– ***NOTICE*** Do not use autosend with the spam defeater  Rick Story

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Question:

I have an 8 wt, 9′ Fenwick boron/graphite salmon rod that is light, powerfull and a joy to fish with.

Response:

Can anyone provide me with information regarding boron rods. Specifically, I recently purchased an used  8′ 5 Wt. rod that appears to be made of boron (I can’t make out the manufacturer).  On test casting, it seemed to perform approx. like a similar IM6 rod but it’s too cold up here and my line’s too stiff to be certain.  I’m thinking of giving it to my 12 year old son for Easter.  Is this sensible or would the IM6 be a better choice?  This will be his first rod although he’s fooled around with mine a bit last year.  Any info. on boron rods in general or this rod in particular would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance.    

I believe orvis also made a boron rod. They all seem to be about like IM6.  This would be a good starter rod in my opinion.

Response:

 The rod maker you are refering to is Don Phillips formerly from  Connecticut now residing in Florida. (remainder omitted)   Don was one, there also was Ted x? of Rodon Rod Co. who mixed the boron  with graphite (further omission)

Darn it, even with this help, I still can’t remember who built my rod.  Both these gentlemen sound familiar.  (Though if forced to guess, I’d say it probably was Don Phillips.)  Two details might help pin it down: I remember seeing the man whose rod my wife (then girlfriend) eventually bought for my birthday [ ] inviting the visitors to a fishing meet in southern New York state to use a hammer on a sample of his material. It never left a mark. Also, the rod was bought from a small fly shop in Bristol, CT, which was the only place we’d ever heard of that actually stocked them.  Other than that shop, I think you had to find the builder and buy directly from him. He did advertise in Fly Fisherman for a while. Does any of this confirm his identity? Thanks for the help.

Response:

writes: Can anyone provide me with information regarding boron rods. Specifically, I recently purchased an used  8′ 5 Wt. rod that appears to be made of boron (I can’t make out the manufacturer).  On test casting, it seemed to perform approx. like a similar IM6 rod but it’s too cold up here and my line’s too stiff to be certain.  I’m thinking of giving it to my 12 year old son for Easter.  Is this sensible or would the IM6 be a better choice?  This will be his first rod although he’s fooled around with mine a bit last year.  Any info. on boron rods in general or this rod in particular would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance.    

The short answer is if it works, use it, regardless of the material it is constructed of.  Boron rods came and went in the 80’s. 100% Boron rods were very powerful and light but very brittle.  I believe  it was Rodon who made some boron rods by fusing the boron to a central wire.  These were solid rods, not hollow and were really thin.  They also rated them for 4 ro 5 different lines, all on the same rod.  100% Boron rods broke very easily if you bumped them against something.  A problem with too high of a modulus in relation to tensile strength.  After the original problems with boron, companies began using boron/graphite mixed rods and those worked well, but were heavy.  They used the boron for the power and the graphite for the strength, and some fine rods were made from that combo.  Orvis had some of their boron/graphite rods win Kudo awards from Rod & Reel in 1987-88?. When high modulus graphite rods became available they took over that market niche as they had almost as much power and were much lighter and easier to cast all day long.                                                     Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

Response:

The rod maker you are refering to is Don Phillips formerly from Connecticut now residing in Florida. Also formerly my father-in-law. I own and have fished these rods for many years. They certainly have some unique features. They are very fast because of their small diameter; due to the solid construction. I don’t beleive he has built any in years unless he stsrted up again after his retirement. Happy fishin’ Byard

Response:

i  have an 8 weight 9 ft boron that i would not give up for anything. i broke the tip on a ceiling fan of its mate a10 weight and fenwick would not fix it .it seems after enquirythat their workers were getting the tiny boron splinters underneath their nails so Fenwick quit making them if you come across any borons please let me know -in my book rthey are better than graphite and will manhandle any fish –used on bonefish-that should tell the story                                   Netscape Navigator  1.1N (Macintosh)                 IMPORTANT!  Before going any further, please                 read and accept the terms in the file LICENSE. Release notes for this version of Netscape Navigator are available online.  After starting the program, select "Release Notes" from the "Help" menu.  This will take you to the URL http://home.netscape.com/eng/mozilla/1.1/relnotes/mac-1.1.html which lists new features and known problems of this release. To submit bugs or other feedback, use the "How To Give Feedback" option, also on the "Help" menu, which will take you to the URL http://home.netscape.com/home/how-to-give-feedback.html If for some reason you cannot submit feedback

Response:

 Can anyone provide me with information regarding boron rods. Specifically, I recently purchased an used  8′ 5 Wt. rod that appears to be made of boron (I can’t make out the manufacturer).  On test casting, it seemed to perform approx. like a similar IM6 rod but it’s too cold up here and my line’s too stiff to be certain.  I’m thinking of giving it to my 12 year old son for Easter.  Is this sensible or would the IM6 be a better choice?  This will be his first rod although he’s fooled around with mine a bit last year.  Any info. on boron rods in general or this rod in particular would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance.    

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:  Can anyone provide me with information regarding boron rods. : Specifically, I recently purchased an used  8′ 5 Wt. rod that appears : to be made of boron (I can’t make out the manufacturer).  On test : casting, it seemed to perform approx. like a similar IM6 rod but it’s : too cold up here and my line’s too stiff to be certain.  I’m thinking : of giving it to my 12 year old son for Easter.  Is this sensible or : would the IM6 be a better choice?  This will be his first rod although : he’s fooled around with mine a bit last year.  Any info. on boron rods : in general or this rod in particular would be appreciated.  Thanks in : advance.     In the late 70’s, when graphite was relatively new, there was a lot of experimentation with boron, kevlar, etc. All of these were used in conjunction with graphite and/or fibreglass, with the objective of providing stiffer, more sensitive rods. I have seen a few casting "worm rods" that used boron, and once had a "mooching" rod that was kevlar-reinforced, but I have never come across a fly rod made from these materials. There is still a bit of kevlar in use, but I haven’t seen anyone advertizing boron for about 15 years. As a first rod, this one probably won’t take you too far wrong. The kid will get another rod soon enough (don’t we all?) <g  – 3798 Woodland Drive     voice: (604) 368-9315 Trail, BC               data:  (604) 368-9341

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Can anyone provide me with information regarding boron rods. Specifically, I recently purchased an used  8′ 5 Wt. rod that appears to be made of boron (I can’t make out the manufacturer).  On test casting, it seemed to perform approx. like a similar IM6 rod but it’s too cold up here and my line’s too stiff to be certain.  I’m thinking of giving it to my 12 year old son for Easter.  Is this sensible or would the IM6 be a better choice?  This will be his first rod although he’s fooled around with mine a bit last year.  Any info. on boron rods in general or this rod in particular would be appreciated.  Thanks in advance.    

Fenwick and Browning both had Boron rods.  For some reason they never really made it. I would try to have a line on it that will load it up nicely at a short distance of about 30 feet.  Maybe a #6 line would help him feel the rod load better at first.  If it casts good and isn’t to expensive, it might be a good starter rod. William Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop

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The rod maker you are refering to is Don Phillips formerly from Connecticut now residing in Florida. Also formerly my father-in-law. I own and have fished these rods for many years. They certainly have some unique features. They are very fast because of their small diameter; due to the solid construction. I don’t beleive he has built any in years unless he stsrted up again after his retirement. Happy fishin’ Byard

 Don was one, there also was Ted x? of Rodon Rod Co. who mixed the boron with graphite….using the two materials in different directions through- out the entire length of the rod. sd

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:  Can anyone provide me with information regarding boron rods.

 Rodon Rod Co. used to produce boron-graphite rods…the material was very difficult to produce the taper with the rod tip control of the newer graphite strains.  The material itself does have unique properties which allowed it to really throw line..  Economics (the bottom line in sales) I THINK!!??? was the demise…..? sd

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 I have seen a few casting "worm rods" that used boron, and once had a  "mooching" rod that was kevlar-reinforced, but I have never come across a  fly rod made from these materials.

I’ve had one for 20 years or so, 8 foot for 4 weight.  It was made by a man in Connecticut who was fairly well known at the time.  Unfortunately, he did not sign his rods, and I’ve forgotten his name long since.  Back then, I liked it better than any of the graphite rods I’d tried.  It still qualifies as a fast rod and handles anything up to a 6-weight line gracefully.  However, by today’s standards it is probably a little insensitive in the tip.  Doesn’t stop me from using it regularly. Of course, now that technology has brought us really good graphite rods with a wide range of actions, I’ve gotten more interested in bamboo.

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: I’m thinking about a first trip to the San Juan this fall or next spring. : When’s the best dry fly fishing? Chris, Absolutely the best dry fly fishing I ever had on the San Juan was in mid-September a few years back over a Pale Morning Dun hatch.  I have been back a few years at the same time but have never caught it that way again. Baetis and midges hatch pretty much anytime conditions are right (overcast) regardless of time of year. Plan to fish some nymphs. Chuck

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I’m thinking about a first trip to the San Juan this fall or next spring. When’s the best dry fly fishing? Chris Long Long Island, New York

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Question:

Does anyone know?

(if the fishing is good) D.P.  

I have not been to Bright Angel campground in about 10 years, and when I was there, did not fish, but… There were tremendous numbers of large trout to be seen!  Anyone with a rod down there did very well.  One co-worker said it was kind of a pain, you caught a trout on every cast, no matter what you did! Ron

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I have fished Bright Angel Creek, working my way up from the campground a mile or so. I caught a 14" brookie and a 17" rainbow in about a half hour. One was on a Gold-ribbed Hare’s Ear and the other was on a  weighted "Ted Fay" Yellow jacket pattern. Look for places where the current sweeps under the rocks.  Cast well upstream so the fly can sink and be swept down under. Few people flyfish – most use lures or Salmon egges.  You will out fish them I guarantee. Big fish can be seen jumping in the main river but every time I’ve been there the clarity was so limited I stayed in the clear creek. Good luck! May the wild fish live to spawn, and may the brood of their progeny break the tippets of our grandchildren!

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   Hey, go and take your gear. Different times of the year will bring different conditions. During Aug and Sept when the canyon gets it’s heaviest rain fall, it might not be too great but any other time you might get a wonderful surprise!    We fished from the put in at Lee’s Ferry for about five days downstream before the river got too murky, from storms, to do any good. The main river will produce two to ten pound trout which I have seen! We ate a few.    Very few of the rafters fish, or even carry the gear to fish. This is due to limited space, especially for something as long and fragile as a flyrod. Or fear of loss due to flipping.      I have not hear that bio-degradeable soaps had any effect on the fishery of anystream any kind of usage such as the Colorado. The fish are voracious and will hit just about anything you put   good luck! and great hike!!                 -t                                     =8^)

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Hey, go and take your gear. Different times of the year will bring different conditions. During Aug and Sept when the canyon gets it’s heaviest rain fall, it might not be too great but any other time you might get a wonderful surprise!

Thanks, for the tip, hopefully I’ll have some fish stories to tell when I return. D.P.

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You might as well enjoy the trip, because the AZ dept of Game and Fish is being pressured to remove all bag limits on trout in the Canyon, possibly starting next year.  There and elsewhere in the state, trout (except Apache and Gila) are being treated by the federal courts as the enemy of native species, even though most of the ecosystems in which trout have taken home — the Canyon is an obvious example — have been permanently transformed from what they were when squawfish and humpbacks ruled the waves.  For the next few years, the trout fishery at Lees Ferry will be unaffected by the squawfish regulations, and AzGF thinks it might even improve if the releases through Glen Canyon Dam are a couple degress warmer.  On the other hand, the Bureau of Reclamation is talking about blasting a 50,000 (yeah, 5 K) cfs release through Glen Canyon Dam in March or April 1995, just to see what it will do for beaches, etc in the Grand Canyon.  Whatever it does to those beaches, it will blast the hell out of the barely restored fishery at the Ferry. -bruce pencek

: Hey, go and take your gear. Different times of the year will : bring different conditions. During Aug and Sept when the canyon : gets it’s heaviest rain fall, it might not be too great but : any other time you might get a wonderful surprise! : Thanks, for the tip, hopefully I’ll have some fish stories to tell when I : return. — Political Science, Box 455029    ~  as eternal salvation — come by grace and University of Nevada, Las Vegas  ~   grace comes by art and art does not come Las Vegas, NV  89154-5029        ~   easy."                 — Norman Maclean

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Pencek) writes: On the other hand, the Bureau of Reclamation is talking about blasting a 50,000 (yeah, 5 K) cfs release through Glen Canyon Dam in March or April 1995, just to see what it will do for beaches, etc in the Grand Canyon.  Whatever it does to those beaches, it will blast the hell out of the barely restored fishery at the Ferry.

Ah, the glory of government, it certainly is dumbfounding how these thought processes come about, and we pay for them. D.P.

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Does anyone know? I’m planning a hiking/camping  tripfor a two night stay at the bottom of the Grand Canyon in October and was wondering if it would be worth while to carry the weight of the fly fishing gear.  I would be at Bright Angel Creek and the Colorado River.  Is the fishing there any good, or have all the fish been killed or spooked by all the rafters.  I’ve also heard that the high concentration of bio-degradable soap from all the campers has done a number on the fish, is this true? If the fishing is worthwhile what sort of line/leader/flies should I bring?   And advice would be appreciated. Thank You D.P.  

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Question:

Within San Francisco city limits is Lake Merced.   Dont Waste ypur time even considering Lake Merced in the Summer.  The fishing is KILLER in the winter though. Across the Bay Bridge is San Pablo Reservoir. A MUCH better prospect. Lots more water and the algae isn’t the same problem that it is at Lake Merced in the summer.  By the Way….. I am told that San Pablo is managed by "That Dam Co.",the same folks that manage Lake Merced.  They stock with the standard state planters as well as the Lassen Broodstock fish. The big slugs are the Lassen fish. But in July, the fishing is great in the Sierra, so I’ll be there. Happy fishing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My fiance and I will be honeymooning in the S.F. area between July 4 and July 16, 1994.  We would like to do some fishing (maybe 1 or 2 days) while there.  I fly fish, she doesn’t (but she’s willing to learn).  We’d prefer to not spend a fortune, but if a guide is the only way to insure a fairly successful outing then we’ll certainly consider one.  We are looking for fresh water, trout or possibly bass. Within San Francisco city limits is Lake Merced.  It is stocked with Rainbows and catches in the 3 to 8 pound range are not uncommon.  The fishing is usually good to very good and the price is right.  Across the Bay Bridge is San Pablo Reservoir.  It is stocked with trout and small mouth bass.  Fishing from shore is usually productive, especially around the dam, but fishing from boat is definitely better.  Boats are available for rent but, if you go on the weekend, get their early. If you want to get away from the urban areas, take a trip north to the little town of Anderson.  Rent a rowboat and fish the river just south of Anderson for Rainbows in the 8-12 pound range.

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My fiance and I will be honeymooning in the S.F. area between July 4 and July 16, 1994.  We would like to do some fishing (maybe 1 or 2 days) while there.  I fly fish, she doesn’t (but she’s willing to learn).  We’d prefer to not spend a fortune, but if a guide is the only way to insure a fairly successful outing then we’ll certainly consider one.  We are looking for fresh water, trout or possibly bass.  Any help would be appreciated.  Please respond by e-mail if possible.  Thanks. —

The other posting is correct.  If you are around for a few days, suggest you go outside of SF to the Sierras.  Remarkably I have just published a Guide to the Desolation Wilderness which is near Lake Tahoe and makes a nice stop with a fiance.  Guide available from Frank Amato pub 1-800-541-9498

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My fiance and I will be honeymooning in the S.F. area between July 4 and July 16, 1994.  We would like to do some fishing (maybe 1 or 2 days) while there.  I fly fish, she doesn’t (but she’s willing to learn).  We’d prefer to not spend a fortune, but if a guide is the only way to insure a fairly successful outing then we’ll certainly consider one.  We are looking for fresh water, trout or possibly bass.  Any help would be appreciated.  Please respond by e-mail if possible.  Thanks. —

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