Question:

[snipped] Great story.  I can feel the slime and smell the penetrating odor from here

Response:

……On Saturday at a Back Yard Burger I saw four young Elvises (Elvii) getting out of a powder blue 1962 Buick convertible.

The dude DOES get around.  He spends his days picking up trash at Children’s Hospital of Wisconsin, here in Milwaukee. Wolfgang i guess the king of rock-n-roll biz ain’t what it used to was.

Response:

Great story.  I can feel the slime and smell the penetrating odor from here

TAKE A SHOWER ALREADY! mEMPHIS jIM No, I haven’t seen Elvis this week.

Response:

says… Great story.  I can feel the slime and smell the penetrating odor from here TAKE A SHOWER ALREADY! mEMPHIS jIM No, I haven’t seen Elvis this week.

thanks.  I was wondering what I stepped in… — Rob (but have you gone by Graceland…)

Response:

Actually that’s not true.  On Saturday at a Back Yard Burger I saw four young Elvises (Elvii) getting out of a powder blue 1962 Buick convertible. Memphis Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No, I haven’t seen Elvis this week. thanks.  I was wondering what I stepped in… — Rob (but have you gone by Graceland…)

Response:

Boulder, ponds near Munson’s ? You mean 75th and Valmont ? Not the Sawhill’s ? How in the world is there trout in any pond near there ? The water must be 85 degrees ? Good bass’n out there, and big carp. But you say there’s some nice trout, eh ? Could you please be more specific about where these ponds are ? TIA. Bone.

BTW, TBone, I forgot to mention the graylings… hehe

Response:

Is that you, Frank?

No sir. Not Frank. Ben. -bh

Response:

Boulder, ponds near Munson’s ? You mean 75th and Valmont ? Not the Sawhill’s ? How in the world is there trout in any pond near there ? The water must be 85 degrees ? Good bass’n out there, and big carp. But you say there’s some nice trout, eh ? Could you please be more specific about where these ponds are ? TIA. Bone.

Response:

Is that you, Frank? No sir. Not Frank. Ben.

It tis nice to see others with a single minded devotion to the fish.  Hey, so what if you get a bit messy, you got a fish and these guys are just dreaming of getting some. — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply.

Response:

Boulder, ponds near Munson’s ? You mean 75th and Valmont ? Not the Sawhill’s ? How in the world is there trout in any pond near there ? The water must be 85 degrees ? Good bass’n out there, and big carp. But you say there’s some nice trout, eh ? Could you please be more specific about where these ponds are ? TIA. Bone.

You clearly know the place, what I’ve been tiold by the F&G guys that patrol the area is that the ponds are and have for some time been dumping grounds for stock. Big bass, yes. I’ve lifted an 18 inch large mouth out of the back pond on a #10 krystal bugger tied to 6X tippet and a 4wt rod. I’ve also taken more than a number of catfish ON THE SURFACE using smallish, bright white upwing something or others (I forget exactly) from the first pond. Sunfish, bluegills, small mouths, big mouths. The place is like a proving ground for fly tackle. Specifically on the trout issue: Walk back from the parking lot, past the pond with the dock. The next pond on the north side of that path is huge and damned near dry. Stand there on the south side near the aspen stand, open your eyes and prick your ears. Those big dark shadowy bug sucking monsters are trout. If we don’t get some rain soon, they will soon be trout jerky. Let me know and I’ll meet you there. -bh Boulder, CO

Response:

I spent the day fishing one of the back ponds out near Munson’s east of Boulder, CO. The current drought and a bit of local water politics has reduced many of these usually healthy potholes to small bowls of muddy, stringy soup. The hole I chose to visit today caught my eye via my ear when I heard loud slurping sounds coming from the ooze. I sat down on a clump of rye grass and watched some of the biggest lunker trout I’ve ever seen sucking bugs off of the surface, their backs complelety exposed to the air as they lay cradled in the thick weeds. I sat and I watched and I evaluated. Two big problems — 1.) the sea weed was very thick and left only small (maybe 4-5 ft. across) targets of clear (kind of) water in which to land a fly and 2.) the CO Fish and Game had encouraged aspens all along this particular bank leaving only a 10 by 10 ft "window" for me to shoot a line through. Normally I’d feel ok about a tight cast like that, but I was also standing 10-12 feet above the surface of the water which put my backcast up high and my front cast down sharply. So I sat some more and evaluated and while I did I tied on a #8 Dave’s hopper variant that I picked up in a general store in Ten Sleep, WY this summer. This version has gads of jangly rubber legs and makes all kind of ruckus on the surface when you twitch ‘em. I had no clue what they were sipping so I figured something juicy and big might bust them away from whatever hatch they were enjoying at the moment. So I sat some more and evaluated and while I did I began to realise that there was not a single sunfish or gilly or anything small at or near the water’s edge. it occurred to me that this pond had been shrinking for months and that anything small had been consumed by the elders in the water. This explained their size. Off in the distance, maybe 100 yds or so from my clump of grass were two blue herons standing in less than a foot of water. They were no doubt waiting patiently for one of these giants to glide by. I tried to imagine what that fight would look like. The scene in front of me was like an entire wildlife documentory but without the narrative. Truly unreal. So I decided it was time. I screeched off 20 or 30 feet of line from my little Princess and flicked the tippet end out toward the water. Two or three false casts swished through the air and — and this is god’s truth — I popped that little hopper right smack in the center of a clear spot in the water. I watched. I waited. I stripped in the slack and I waited some more. The water was so dark and so thick with growth that it was hard to see anything beneath the surface. I waited a minute or so and finally I gave her a twitch. My little bug pushed a bow-wave straight toward me and floated high on the water. Another ten seconds and I gave it another twitch. This time something thick and black and large rolled over and devoured my fly. I popped my wrist back and hooked up nicely. That fish — my fish — ran a slalom course through the weeds and tangled my leader 5 ways from Sunday. I stood up, fell and slid like a knothead down the bank and landed on my knees in the muck. But I still had a fish on! I stripped the slack that had formed from my fall and felt the leader knot hit the tip of my rod. I knew I was less than 9 feet from this fish and I wasn’t going to let a little slime stop me from landing him. What I didn’t plan on was the "lack of firmness" on the bottom of the pond. I stepped into the water — just a foot or so — and immediately felt the coolness of the mud slide deliciously up to my knees. I tried to step out and I felt one of my Teva’s come off my foot. Damn! I lost balance and fell back, gently and with great style, right on my ass. Here I am, all of my bits and pieces in the water and my legs being swallowed by quick sand. I worked to get my feet out of the suck, all the while trying to hang on to my rod. Eventually I got to my feet and started scanning the weeds for my fishy friend. I bent my rod gently and in doing so pulled my leader into a semi-straight line. I coould feel the fish still and I could see the hissy fit he was throwing in the growth. Laying down my rod I wrapped the leader around my hand and gently pulled him in. The trout was wrapped in so much plant material that he looked twice his actual size. I kept him in the water and slipped a wet hand under his belly. The weeds kept him still as I unhooked him and pointed him, nose first toward the center of the pond. I gathered my dignity and shlepped back to my car, my legs and shorts frosted in foul smelling green/brown goop. Well, there are no facilities at this place and I had nothing more than what I was wearing with me so I slipped out of my shorts and tshirt, put my shirt over the driver’s seat of my car and drove home wearing nothing but my Jockeys and a big smile. Upon my arrival, my wife didn’t inquire as to my condition or how it came to be. She gave me a totally unaffected look and asked me if I had had a good time. I told her that I had.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I spent the day fishing one of the back ponds out near Munson’s east of Boulder, CO. The current drought and a bit of local water politics has reduced many of these usually healthy potholes to small bowls of muddy, stringy soup. The hole I chose to visit today caught my eye via my ear when I heard loud slurping sounds coming from the ooze. I sat down on a clump of rye grass and watched some of the biggest lunker trout I’ve ever seen sucking bugs off of the surface, their backs complelety exposed to the air as they lay cradled in the thick weeds. I sat and I watched and I evaluated. Two big problems — 1.) the sea weed was very thick and left only small (maybe 4-5 ft. across) targets of clear (kind of) water in which to land a fly and 2.) the CO Fish and Game had encouraged aspens all along this particular bank leaving only a 10 by 10 ft "window" for me to shoot a line through. Normally I’d feel ok about a tight cast like that, but I was also standing 10-12 feet above the surface of the water which put my backcast up high and my front cast down sharply. So I sat some more and evaluated and while I did I tied on a #8 Dave’s hopper variant that I picked up in a general store in Ten Sleep, WY this summer. This version has gads of jangly rubber legs and makes all kind of ruckus on the surface when you twitch ‘em. I had no clue what they were sipping so I figured something juicy and big might bust them away from whatever hatch they were enjoying at the moment. So I sat some more and evaluated and while I did I began to realise that there was not a single sunfish or gilly or anything small at or near the water’s edge. it occurred to me that this pond had been shrinking for months and that anything small had been consumed by the elders in the water. This explained their size. Off in the distance, maybe 100 yds or so from my clump of grass were two blue herons standing in less than a foot of water. They were no doubt waiting patiently for one of these giants to glide by. I tried to imagine what that fight would look like. The scene in front of me was like an entire wildlife documentory but without the narrative. Truly unreal. So I decided it was time. I screeched off 20 or 30 feet of line from my little Princess and flicked the tippet end out toward the water. Two or three false casts swished through the air and — and this is god’s truth — I popped that little hopper right smack in the center of a clear spot in the water. I watched. I waited. I stripped in the slack and I waited some more. The water was so dark and so thick with growth that it was hard to see anything beneath the surface. I waited a minute or so and finally I gave her a twitch. My little bug pushed a bow-wave straight toward me and floated high on the water. Another ten seconds and I gave it another twitch. This time something thick and black and large rolled over and devoured my fly. I popped my wrist back and hooked up nicely. That fish — my fish — ran a slalom course through the weeds and tangled my leader 5 ways from Sunday. I stood up, fell and slid like a knothead down the bank and landed on my knees in the muck. But I still had a fish on! I stripped the slack that had formed from my fall and felt the leader knot hit the tip of my rod. I knew I was less than 9 feet from this fish and I wasn’t going to let a little slime stop me from landing him. What I didn’t plan on was the "lack of firmness" on the bottom of the pond. I stepped into the water — just a foot or so — and immediately felt the coolness of the mud slide deliciously up to my knees. I tried to step out and I felt one of my Teva’s come off my foot. Damn! I lost balance and fell back, gently and with great style, right on my ass. Here I am, all of my bits and pieces in the water and my legs being swallowed by quick sand. I worked to get my feet out of the suck, all the while trying to hang on to my rod. Eventually I got to my feet and started scanning the weeds for my fishy friend. I bent my rod gently and in doing so pulled my leader into a semi-straight line. I coould feel the fish still and I could see the hissy fit he was throwing in the growth. Laying down my rod I wrapped the leader around my hand and gently pulled him in. The trout was wrapped in so much plant material that he looked twice his actual size. I kept him in the water and slipped a wet hand under his belly. The weeds kept him still as I unhooked him and pointed him, nose first toward the center of the pond. I gathered my dignity and shlepped back to my car, my legs and shorts frosted in foul smelling green/brown goop. Well, there are no facilities at this place and I had nothing more than what I was wearing with me so I slipped out of my shorts and tshirt, put my shirt over the driver’s seat of my car and drove home wearing nothing but my Jockeys and a big smile. Upon my arrival, my wife didn’t inquire as to my condition or how it came to be. She gave me a totally unaffected look and asked me if I had had a good time. I told her that I had.

Is that you, Frank?

Response:

Question:

The panga fishing is much more fun for flyfishing.  Cruisers are for offshore marlin and such.  We went with Beto Nunez on Pangas a couple months ago and had a grand time with Sierra Mackeral.  I used my 10wt becuase it could cast farther. This time of year the roosterfish should be available.  You’ll want the 10wt and lots of backing for these guys. They’re good folks who speak English and catch fish. Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Group! This message is also crossposted to rec.outdoors.fishing, and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I’m headed to Los Cabos for a few days in early June with my brothers. Of the three attending, none are really fishermen. What would be a good experience for them- catching fish but not necessarily spending all day ion a boat offshore? Now for me: Can anyone define the experiences of  panga vs. cruiser? How’s the inshore fishing? Should I take along a 10 wt? Would it do me any good? I like to catch fish, they don’t necessarily have to monsters, in fact I prefer a light tackle for spirited light fish rather than cranking a coffee can with a behemoth  attached 10 miles out- although I enjoy that as well. That said, I know marlin and billfish are the real sportsmen’s game in Cabo – what else completes the Cabo fishing experience? We really only have two full days, so any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks Cow

Fix underscore in address to reply

Response:

Hi Group! This message is also crossposted to rec.outdoors.fishing, and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I’m headed to Los Cabos for a few days in early June with my brothers. Of the three attending, none are really fishermen. What would be a good experience for them- catching fish but not necessarily spending all day ion a boat offshore? Now for me: Can anyone define the experiences of  panga vs. cruiser? How’s the inshore fishing? Should I take along a 10 wt? Would it do me any good? I like to catch fish, they don’t necessarily have to monsters, in fact I prefer a light tackle for spirited light fish rather than cranking a coffee can with a behemoth  attached 10 miles out- although I enjoy that as well. That said, I know marlin and billfish are the real sportsmen’s game in Cabo – what else completes the Cabo fishing experience? We really only have two full days, so any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks Cow

Response:

I’ve been to East Cape, 3 times and have only used the super pangos because they have a canvas top and room for 2 fishermen. You’ll fry in the heat without a top. A lot depends on your guide, they all seem to want to fish for marlin, it’s the macho thing plus they like to sell the meat. I release mine. By the way, I haven’t fly fished there. I prefer to fish for dorado (dolphin) and I think it would be a blast to fish for them with a fly rod, but I haven’t been back since I took up fly fishing. I’ve caught rooster fish using bait and fishing deep. In the morning you can see them working bait fish in the surf, you might be able to do a little shore fishing for them. I tried with rubber lures and the needle fish tore them up on every cast. I don’t know how a fly would hold up. Your friends could stay on shore and get drunk, play in the pool, if your hotel has one, and snorkel. East Cape is more remote than Cabo with only fish camps and no shopping. Ron

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Group! This message is also crossposted to rec.outdoors.fishing, and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I’m headed to Los Cabos for a few days in early June with my brothers. Of the three attending, none are really fishermen. What would be a good experience for them- catching fish but not necessarily spending all day ion a boat offshore? Now for me: Can anyone define the experiences of  panga vs. cruiser? How’s the inshore fishing? Should I take along a 10 wt? Would it do me any good? I like to catch fish, they don’t necessarily have to monsters, in fact I prefer a light tackle for spirited light fish rather than cranking a coffee can with a behemoth  attached 10 miles out- although I enjoy that as well. That said, I know marlin and billfish are the real sportsmen’s game in Cabo – what else completes the Cabo fishing experience? We really only have two full days, so any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks Cow

Response:

Golf the Nicklaus coures. Go to the Giggling Marlin. Get a taco from one of the little places. Go to The Office and sit outside for happy hour. Huge fried shrimp and a bucket of cold ones to go with amazing scenery on many levels.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Group! This message is also crossposted to rec.outdoors.fishing, and rec.outdoors.fishing.fly I’m headed to Los Cabos for a few days in early June with my brothers. Of the three attending, none are really fishermen. What would be a good experience for them- catching fish but not necessarily spending all day ion a boat offshore? Now for me: Can anyone define the experiences of  panga vs. cruiser? How’s the inshore fishing? Should I take along a 10 wt? Would it do me any good? I like to catch fish, they don’t necessarily have to monsters, in fact I prefer a light tackle for spirited light fish rather than cranking a coffee can with a behemoth  attached 10 miles out- although I enjoy that as well. That said, I know marlin and billfish are the real sportsmen’s game in Cabo – what else completes the Cabo fishing experience? We really only have two full days, so any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks Cow

Response:

Question:

The raising of children cannot be delegated to day-care, nannies and the boob-tube.  It requires constant attention and care.  The economic reality for many families these days is that both parents work.  It is indeed a complex and difficult problem.

    It is a problem that is difficult and not a single simple answer will do. Are the parents or the child to blame? In some cases the parents are to blame but, not in all, there are cases where the kids are plain rebellious and the parents are wonderful.      It is a sad state of affairs that the TV or video games are the surrogate parents. Many homes where there is two parents consist of both of them working long hours to provide extra. I also understand where some families choose to have a little less extras and have a parent around during the children’s years at home. I guess it breaks down to what is the most important.     Thanks I will step off the box and get back into the background.. D.S.

Response:

   I really do feel sorry for the parents though because kids these days dont talk with parents like they used to. I honestly think it would be fair

I don’t believe that it is the kids that are the cause of this… -Eric

Response:

The raising of children cannot be delegated to day-care, nannies and the boob-tube.  It requires constant attention and care.  The economic reality for many families these days is that both parents work.  It is indeed a complex and difficult problem.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    I really do feel sorry for the parents though because kids these days dont talk with parents like they used to. I honestly think it would be fair I don’t believe that it is the kids that are the cause of this… -Eric

Response:

Why?  Because one kid broke a couple windows with an airplane? Mike MU-2

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Raise the minimum age for getting PPL to 21. Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

It’s on-going, and please don’t attack me, as it would appear most are getting attacked when they voice their opinions now…

We’re with you, Casey.  As a teenage pilot, you’re living the dream I had to wait another 20 years to achieve, and I tip my hat to you. This isn’t an age thing — it’s a mental health issue, and should be treated as such. — Jay Honeck Iowa City, IA Warrior N33431

Response:

    I really do feel sorry for the parents though because kids these days dont talk with parents like they used to. I honestly think it would be fair to say my parents are great parents yet if I was to do something like this they would never know until its to late. My parents love me, care about me, and are great but I still, along with most teens, try to push them away. When they talk to me I dont want to talk to them, its none of their business, etc. Not only that but most parents have nothing in common with their kids. For instance my dad likes baseball cards, being outside, and fishing. My mom likes dolls, shopping, and being outside. I like computers and flying. I hate doing everything they do and they pretty much hate everything I do except my mom will fly occasionally. Sure I try to do what they like to do sometimes to make them happy, after all they are my parents and Im their last "baby" and soon ill be leaving home to. When I get home I eat and goto my room and come out when its time to leave, its the way kids do. I personally think the parents are still great parents for not knowing, it shows they trusted their kid. Unfortunatly this kid couldnt be trusted and I dont know the family history, only what ive heard. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

I feel it man, I feel it…Flying is all I have (well other than my semi-good looks ) -J

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Just my opinion, and I support everything said by CJ in this thread… I am 17 and a pilot like Zach. If my right to fly was taken away, I would probably just sit at home and have nothing to do. You see, flying has GIVEN me my maturity… it has shown me how to be responsible with earning every dime it takes to fly (I work at a grocery store) and also the responsibility in the air. For us teens that do take flying very seriously, we’re just as good as the 40 y/o pilot. It’s sad that this kid died, but that’s no reason to take away my right to fly and share my dream with others. Last year, 4 of my friends died in a car accident. Should I not be able to drive? It’s on-going, and please don’t attack me, as it would appear most are getting attacked when they voice their opinions now… Clear Skies- Casey Hansen Iowa, USA PP-ASEL   -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how people think I shouldnt be flying. Take it easy, Zach; the regulars know you’re alright. Ignore the trollers. — Dan N9387D at BFM

Response:

Ironic coincidence is that one of the recent issues of AOPA Pilot (the one with the 2001 Bonanza on the cover) shows a 16 year old CAP cadet shaking hands with her instructor after soloing both gliders and a 172 on her 16th birthday. David Reinhart – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Does that mean that my daughter shouldn’t be able to get her glider pilot license or that air cadet’s should be abolished? Sounds like a politicians knee jerk reaction to me. I think that 15 year old kids shouldn’t be allowed to fly airplanes into buildings and that we as a society should take "reasonable" precautions to prevent it from happening. Enough said. Willy Raise the minimum age for getting PPL to 21. Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

Does that mean that my daughter shouldn’t be able to get her glider pilot license or that air cadet’s should be abolished? Sounds like a politicians knee jerk reaction to me. I think that 15 year old kids shouldn’t be allowed to fly airplanes into buildings and that we as a society should take "reasonable" precautions to prevent it from happening. Enough said. Willy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Raise the minimum age for getting PPL to 21. Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

Just my opinion, and I support everything said by CJ in this thread… I am 17 and a pilot like Zach. If my right to fly was taken away, I would probably just sit at home and have nothing to do. You see, flying has GIVEN me my maturity… it has shown me how to be responsible with earning every dime it takes to fly (I work at a grocery store) and also the responsibility in the air. For us teens that do take flying very seriously, we’re just as good as the 40 y/o pilot. It’s sad that this kid died, but that’s no reason to take away my right to fly and share my dream with others. Last year, 4 of my friends died in a car accident. Should I not be able to drive? It’s on-going, and please don’t attack me, as it would appear most are getting attacked when they voice their opinions now… Clear Skies- Casey Hansen Iowa, USA PP-ASEL

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how people think I shouldnt be flying. Take it easy, Zach; the regulars know you’re alright. Ignore the trollers. — Dan N9387D at BFM

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Why, because one goofball killed himself?  What about all the goofballs of all ages that kill themselves in cars everyday?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Raise the minimum age for getting PPL to 21. Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

I agree… -J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

  -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how people think I shouldnt be flying.

Take it easy, Zach; the regulars know you’re alright. Ignore the trollers. — Dan N9387D at BFM

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Raise the minimum age for getting PPL to 21. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons? | Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

Personally, I have been very happy with the teens I have seen flying. Most of them are earnest types who work very hard. I have a tough time picturing any of the teens that I have instructed doing any of the crazy stunts you hear about. Nevertheless, I fear that Rick Cremer is correct in predicting that there will be stricter age limits on learning to fly. It will be a sad day when these are enacted. I might not have as much sympathy for the parents as you, however. Did these people not have a clue that their kid was a UBL fan? What kind of parents were they? What kinds of values were they teaching their son, anyway? And if he was rejecting reasonable standards and values, why the heck were they letting him take flying lessons?

| Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line | is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing | happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all | wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because | the adults aren’t at risk here. | | -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have | had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died | and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about | him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did | something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m | not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down | (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give | everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a | reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have | happened. | -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it | shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. | -Some adults are mature, some are immature. | -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start | training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? | -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we | love. | -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused | on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! | -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in | this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how | people think I shouldnt be flying. | | |

Response:

Ok the deal is everyone needs to get along and stop arguing. The bottom line is one person screwed up and now everyone is disagreeing. The same thing happened sept 11th, the only difference is we all agreed because we all wanted to fly, now the adults don’t care what happens to the kids because the adults aren’t at risk here. -one kid screwed up, he’s an idiot, that’s the bottom line. Sure he may have had problems but he’s screwed us all over and no I don’t care that he died and no im not being immature by not caring. While I really dont care about him I do feel sorry for his parents, I cant imagine my parents if I did something like that. Suicide is not the answer to solving your problems. I’m not the problem here, I don’t make fun of people, I don’t put people down (unless they start it), I talk to anyone no matter what others think. I give everyone a fair chance no matter what others think until they give me a reason to do otherwise. Now if everyone would do the same this may not have happened. -Some teens are mature (I would say most teens that fly are, at least it shows they have the devotion to do something) and some teens are immature. -Some adults are mature, some are immature. -sure they can raise the soloing age to 21 or even 21 before you start training but what happens when some 40 y/o man does the same thing? -We all need to stick together because we are all at risk for losing what we love. -The best thing to do is hope that this time next year the media is focused on some other pointless topic such as high school sports games! -Dont make me feel like im not wanted here, I love reading the topics in this group and love posting my questions but I dont like reading about how people think I shouldnt be flying.

Response:

Question:

I am wondering what type of experiences people have had fishing smallmouth in the Quetico in early September.  We have a group who has gone on several spring trips thinking about a fall trip.  Several of us are fly fishermen, so in particular, I’m wondering if the fish use shallow areas this time of year or if they begin to go deep. Thanks Peter Jonas Iron Mountain, MI

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I am wondering what type of experiences people have had fishing smallmouth in the Quetico in early September.  We have a group who has gone on several spring trips thinking about a fall trip.  Several of us are fly fishermen, so in particular, I’m wondering if the fish use shallow areas this time of year or if they begin to go deep.

        They are still deep in early Sept. Don’t forget they don’t care about the air temp., they care about the water temp. And by the end of Aug. the water is as warm there as it gets. Mornings and evenings might still be okay though. But otherwise think late Sept., early Oct. tgb

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I’m wondering if the fish use shallow areas this time of year or if they begin to go deep.

We went in last September (early) into the northern part of the park and did fairly well on smallmouth catching quite a few in the 17-19" class.  Most of them were shallow to about 8′

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Question:

Yes, I too find myself fishing for ‘gills and crappies quite often. Whenever I take children fishing, which is pretty often in the summer, the almost constant action keeps them really excited. Besides pan fish are a lot more tasty than any other freshwater fish…..IMHO Dear Readers         Are there any of you-all out there, besides me, that are into fishing for them? I’m always interested in trading lure and live bait tips, locales, recipes, and such.  So, if anybody is interested, please reply to this board or EMail, Thanks BradLaGrange

<snip — Remove the "NoSpam" to e-mail me

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haven’t fish for ‘em much, but I heard of a killer tip:  in the fall, after the 2nd or 3rd good cold front, go fish the absolute deepest part of the lake (reservoir) with crickets – fish on the bottom,this is where the monster ‘gills are……. — ‘92 Dak CC 2wd 318 3.55 ‘84 GoldWing Interstate – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Readers        Are there any of you-all out there, besides me, that are into fishing for them? I’m always interested in trading lure and live bait tips, locales, recipes, and such.  So, if anybody is interested, please reply to this board or EMail, Thanks BradLaGrange PS-Sorry for my crude typing, my hands are really stiff from the splitting wood in the cold.

Response:

Yeah I like to fish for"we call’em bluegill" out here in Oregon. Right now it is pretty cold for them. Ialso like to go fishing for perch. My son & I have agood spot to fish for perch & bluegil. My son lives up in Washington state & we always get enough for a good fish dinner.I also

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       Are there any of you-all out there, besides me, that are into fishing for them? I’m always interested in trading lure and live bait tips, locales, recipes, and such.  So, if anybody is interested, please reply to this board or EMail,

Brad Count me in – on the water, or on the ice, if they will bite, I’ll fish for them. Wild rice beds in August is where I’ve had the best sucess – in about 5-6′ of water, using about .5-.75" section of leach, with about a #8 or #10 hook and a balsa wood pencil type bobber. Combine that w/ an ultra light and 4 or 6# test line and I’m a happy camper. And just to keep it interesting – look out for the occasional LM Bass or Northern. No better eating fish either. Later Jim

Response:

Dear Readers         Are there any of you-all out there, besides me, that are into fishing for them? I’m always interested in trading lure and live bait tips, locales, recipes, and such.  So, if anybody is interested, please reply to this board or EMail, Thanks BradLaGrange PS-Sorry for my crude typing, my hands are really stiff from the splitting wood in the cold.

   You’ll find that most fly fishermen in the deep south pursue panfish and other warm water species (aint a lotta trout in Fl.) myself included. Some trout flies work well such as the wooly bugger and all the terestrials. Crawfish imitations are also productive as are grass shrimp. small poppers in various colors also put food on the table. I use the 7.5′(because of brush) 3 piece 3wt Cabela’s three forks rod for panfish. It’s a great little rod though a bit soft feeling to cast but has plenty of backbone. Use 7x tippets. It’s a real lark netting a 1lb panfish and to my way of thinking is the ultimate fishing experience.                                                           John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl.

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I dig um’ Tim Apple " Always one step closer to going Postal! " – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Readers         Are there any of you-all out there, besides me, that are into fishing for them? I’m always interested in trading lure and live bait tips, locales, recipes, and such.  So, if anybody is interested, please reply to this board or EMail, Thanks BradLaGrange PS-Sorry for my crude typing, my hands are really stiff from the splitting wood in the cold.   You’ll find that most fly fishermen in the deep south pursue panfish and other warm water species (aint a lotta trout in Fl.) myself included. Some trout flies work well such as the wooly bugger and all the terestrials. Crawfish imitations are also productive as are grass shrimp. small poppers in various colors also put food on the table. I use the 7.5′(because of brush) 3 piece 3wt Cabela’s three forks rod for panfish. It’s a great little rod though a bit soft feeling to cast but has plenty of backbone. Use 7x tippets. It’s a real lark netting a 1lb panfish and to my way of thinking is the ultimate fishing experience.                                                          John Popp                                                        in Sanford Fl.

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Dear Readers         Are there any of you-all out there, besides me, that are into fishing for them? I’m always interested in trading lure and live bait tips, locales, recipes, and such.  So, if anybody is interested, please reply to this board or EMail, Thanks BradLaGrange PS-Sorry for my crude typing, my hands are really stiff from the splitting wood in the cold.

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Dear Readers         Are there any of you-all out there, besides me, that are into fishing for them?

YES!  Down here in AL I have access to a pond that is loaded with big black-headed, thick bream.  I love that "side to side" action and screaming microlight drag when I hook into one.  Besides that, they taste better than a bass any day!  I’m always interested in trading lure and live bait tips, locales, recipes, and such.  So, if anybody is interested, please reply to this board or EMail, Thanks BradLaGrange PS-Sorry for my crude typing, my hands are really stiff from the splitting wood in the cold.

*                                                               * *  ENTOMOLOGIST    ANTIQUE TACKLE COLLECTOR    ALL-AROUND NUT   *

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Oh Yes! Two of my all time favorites is the Red Ear and the Pumpkinseed. People don’t know what fun these little guys can be. Here in SW MO there are a couple of small lakes full of Panfish. Down in this area the best bait is a small squirrel tail jig + wax worms. The largest Red Ear taken from on of the lakes was a little over 12". !0" fish a common around here which in turn, takes less to make a tasty meal. Kevin Way – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Readers        Are there any of you-all out there, besides me, that are into fishing for them? I’m always interested in trading lure and live bait tips, locales, recipes, and such.  So, if anybody is interested, please reply to this board or EMail, Thanks BradLaGrange PS-Sorry for my crude typing, my hands are really stiff from the splitting wood in the cold.

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Question:

        As far as I’ve been able to ascertain, no one really knows exactly how far back fly fishing dates. Based on caves drawings and such, we do know that our stoop shouldered, uni-browed ancestors did, in fact, fish. Of course, early fishing techniques lacked a lot of the finesse associated with modern angling. Rods, for instance, were much shorter and heavier, and were used in a somewhat different manner than we are accustomed to. A prehistoric angler, favorite rod in hand, would wade out into a stream and take position. He’d carefully balance his tackle, assuring himself that his grip was firm and proper. After quietly surveying the water, he’d swing the rod in the classic ‘ten o’clock – one o’clock – ten o’clock’ manner. Then he’d bash a fish in the head, pick it up, and eat it raw on the spot.         This style of fishing eventually developed into two distinct areas: one group preferred ’sight bashing’, preferring to actually see a fish before swinging. The other tribe members stuck with the more old fashioned form of ‘blind bashing’. The sight-bashers soon came to hate the blind-bashers, claiming that their particular style was messing up the fishing. The blind-bashers fired back with the old traditionalism vs. neo-fishism, and the debate raged, leading to an inevitable spilt up of the tribe. One group moved upstream and the other, down. It wasn’t long before a splinter group of blind bashers decided that using longer poles was the way to go. They, too, eventually moved out to practice their particular style of fish catching. Before you knew it, ideological angling dichotomy had forced civilization to spread to the four corners of the globe. (Interestingly enough, many of these philosophical arguments continue to this day.)         Of course, early fishermen never really looked upon their labors as being a sport. Owing to the presence of other predators on the stream in those days (saber-toothed tigers, tyrannosauruses, etc.), the prehistoric angler constantly ran the risk of being eaten raw on the spot himself. When a trip to the ol’ fishing hole meant a 50/50 shot of being dinner instead of getting dinner, angling could hardly be considered recreational relaxation. It would be many years before people would look upon fishing as anything but a free, albeit risky, meal.         Our angling ancestors did, however, contribute one thing to the sport which has remained with us. One fine morning, an aboriginal angler (we’ll call him ‘Nok’) was working his favorite stream. At the time of the incident, Nok was using the forerunner of today’s electronic fish finder…that is to say he was knee-deep in the stream, bent over with his head fully submerged. As he scanned the water for his breakfast, a large, fish/angler eating cave bear was also surveying the stream for an early repast. It spotted Nok’s exposed backside, strolled over, sniffed, and then took a tentative exploratory nibble.         Now, a modern angler, no longer attuned to the wilderness environment due to ions of soft, urban living, would have surely met certain death under the same circumstances. Nok, on the other hand, reflexes sharply honed by years of eat-or-be-eaten fishing, reacted instantly. In an explosive, blinding fury of splashing, clubbing, and squealing, Nok was out of the stream and up a tree before the bear’s jaws could clamp completely shut. The astonished bear, left with nothing more than a good soaking and a small piece of loincloth dangling from one tooth, just stood and gazed upward at the terrified caveman, whose trembling had quickly denuded the tree of its leaves. After a fashion, it ambled off in search of a less frisky (and somewhat quieter) meal.         Later that evening, while sitting around the campfire, Nok regaled his small band of fellow anglers with a vivid (and, of course, slightly exaggerated) account of the day’s event. Like all good fishermen, the tribe listened quietly to the story, all the while rolling their eyes and winking at each other when Nok wasn’t looking their way. It wasn’t until Nok turned around and presented the physical evidence that they  believed that this wasn’t just another fishing tale. After much congratulatory grunting and chest pounding, the tribal elder announced that from that evening on Nok would be forever known as ‘Gup Nar’…The One That Got Away. "The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of men’s lives the hours spent in fishing" – ASSYRIAN TABLET (2000 B.C.) Copyright 1997 Da’ Capn

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When was the strike indicator invented?  Is that in part 2? George Adams

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When was the strike indicator invented?

the day the music died… wayno

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A very well researched and thought out article.  In fact there is some evidence to suggest that our uni-browed ancestors were indeed the biological forerunner of todays polarized sunglasses.     Nature, realizeing that the "Uni-Brow" enabled prehistoric man to fish better – the "uni-brow"  helping to cut down on the surface glare from the water – and being unable to develope polarized eyesight from an evolutionary aspect, procedd to evolve (remember Darwin?) a more intelligent species of hominoid who could later invent polarized sunglassed.     Contrary to the established dogma that man gave up hunter-gatherer society to form an agrarian culture to brew beer, modern theorists now opine it was for the purpose of inventing polarized sunglasses to pursue better fishing.     It is, however, well recorded that primitive man related his tales of adventure around the campfire on the night s of the full moon.  And thus, when Nok exposed his backside to prove the veracity of his tale . . . invented the term "mooning."     Practice C&R and you can kill it later . . . . . . .john

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Question:

Now, what did you expect making a comment like that n a jeep ng…. What a weenie…

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 Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:    "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing".

You don’t understand its a Jeep thing. — Its a Jeep thing..You would’t understand. URL: http://the-threshold.org/gallery/jeep                   OR Its an Anoraks thing.. You don’t want to understand URL: http://the-threshold.org/Anorak-Offroad

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 Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting… " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy.  " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

  that was funny. Sorry guys and gals. I have to be a traitor on this one. I live in a college town. And here the average Jeep driver’s values and experiences have very little in line with me. Unless it’s clearly built or restored, it’s just another car. -ejs

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 Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:    "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing". You don’t understand its a Jeep thing.

Is this anything like "alternative music" ? —

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Wow! If it isn’t Muskie the Wonder Troll returning to haunt our newsgroups!   Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:   "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"

You still can’t get it right:  "It’s a Jeep thing… you wouldn’t understand" is the phrase. Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing". It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged individualists.  They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow. What is this? Words like "belong"  and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they?  It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people.

Those that I have seen who have actually bestowed the phrase on their vehicle are generally those who actually take the vehicles off-road, go camping, lead an active life style, toss on a trailer of jet-ski’s or dirt bikes and actually have a life.  These people go to the Jeep Jamboree’s, the Trail Runs, etc.  They are far from ’sheep’ though a few to many people who are following the Jones’s unfortunately do buy them instead of mock-SUV’s like the Explorer. Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

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How much would an Old Man Emu lift cost on an 86 cherokee?  I am looking for ball park estimates on the ~3" lift reviewed on off-road.com (i think). Also, are there web sources for Old Man Emu ordering? Thanks, jeremiah — 86 cherokee – soon to be a 3.4 L V6!!!!

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Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:   "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"

If your idiotic flame bait bothered me at all, you might be right… Motorcycles have the same cadre relationship.  When you’re on a bike or a harley, almost *everybody* waves.  It is no different, and I think anybody who buys a jeep or a bike only for the waves is going to be sorely disappointed. Besides, it IS a JEEP thing, and you CLEARLY DO NOT understand.  at all… jeremiah — 86 cherokee – soon to be a 3.4 L V6!!!!

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few to many people who are following the Jones’s unfortunately do buy them instead of mock-SUV’s like the Explorer.

I for one appreciate all the Yuppie’s buying new cherokees and TJs… I see it as fodder for myself in 5 or 6 years when I’ll be buying a used 99… just think of all those Yuppie jeeps as replacement parts.  never seen the mud, never been bashed over rocks or seen any real duty.  I think its just great. jeremiah — 86 cherokee – soon to be a 3.4 L V6!!!!

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few to many people who are following the Jones’s unfortunately do buy them instead of mock-SUV’s like the Explorer. I for one appreciate all the Yuppie’s buying new cherokees and TJs… I see it as fodder for myself in 5 or 6 years when I’ll be buying a used 99… just think of all those Yuppie jeeps as replacement parts.  never seen the mud, never been bashed over rocks or seen any real duty.  I think its just great.

hehe, I must admit I never thought of it that way.. but I have thought of it as a way to keep the vehicles in production and to keep the prices somewhat down.. on the other hand the high demand has surged what should be an $18-22k vehicle up to nearly $40k.. almost a full half of which is profit for Chrysler. Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

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HUH?! Where the hell is your point? Meanwhile, if you don’t understand – don’t bother trying.  Obviously, you don’t own a Jeep, so there’s your first obstacle.  The next is being a brand-loyal four-wheeler, where everybody who doesn’t drive you’re particular make of vehicle is pond-scum.  And finally, you’re a little dissatisfied with whatever make of vehicle you’re driving (and a little envious of a Jeep) to take issue with something you don’t or want to understand.  Get a life. I do think that we, as four-wheelers, need to recognize all makes and models as brethren and form an even larger following with a much more accurate motto:  "It’s a 4×4 thing…you asphalt-bound grocery-getters certainly wouldn’t understand."  Anybody with a purpose-built, fill-tilt-boogie off road rig (no matter what it is) gets a wave and nod-of-approval from me. Until then, it’s just us Jeepers… Eric ‘80 CJ-7 – 4" Pro Comp, 33×15.50 Swampers, and way too many other things to mention, ‘85 Nissan King Cab 4×4 – 31×10.50 AT’s, no lift, gets me to work and pulls the boat. — Opinions, everybody’s got one of those, too. You know how to Reply…

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Muskie,        Just when we thought Mr. Troll himself had finally gone away it slithers back in… I have a jeep because I always wanted one and I could care less who else has one. The jeep wave is a tradition, not really a club thing.  I know, you don’t get it. What does "It’s a jeep thing" mean?  It’s a diverse cultural association.  I think you exemplify a jeep cultural disassociation when you wrote "it’s just a d*** car."  That’s the difference.  I doubt you’re bright enough to figure it out though. Don To avoid a flame war I must add.  I am biased to jeeps but there are other manufacturers that build excellent vehicles.  This retort is aimed specifically at Muskie and not other vehicle afficianados. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:    "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing".  It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged  individualists.  They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart  from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow.  What is this? Words like "belong"  and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they?  It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people. <really long boring story snipped   Meanwhile, Jimmy is on a nearby forest road, about to park at a turnoff near a fishing stream.  Jimmy drives a Chevy 4×4 full size. He parks his rig and takes his 6 foot fly rod case out of the bed, and unloads his gear.  A man in a toyota 4runner drives by and waves. The man in the 4runner turns around to talk to the man about the fishing.    " How do you like the full size chevy?"  asks the 4runner driver.  " I like it just fine". Jimmy responds.  " how do you like your 4runner?" asks jimmy.   " I like it just fine", says the 4runner driver.   " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy.  " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

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Well, when I see somebody in a 90-96 300ZX I certainly wave… Alex

[big snip]

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No that would be a RAV4, CRV, etc… No one knows what the hell it is and what purpose it serves!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:    "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing". You don’t understand its a Jeep thing. Is this anything like "alternative music" ? —

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 The only so called "jeepers" who really know what the "jeep thing" is, are the one’s who actually see the logic behind driving in the rain with a bikini and no doors as everyone looks at you thinking "you idiot, youre getting wet"!  I’ll share that logic with you too……It’s FUN!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:   "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!" Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing". It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged individualists.  They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow. What is this? Words like "belong"  and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they?  It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people. Here comes Barbi Anne, driving her new pink Jeep onto the gravel national forest road. Ken is heading her way in his new blue Jeep, and he waves the "jeep wave" to Barbi. Barbi waves back, smiling and giggling.  "I really belong" , thinks Barbi. " I really belong to a group of people that like me for my automobile purchase.  I feel really good about that."   Barbi Anne smiles a faint smile and continues down the road.  A few seconds later, Outback Johnny passes Barbi Anne in his new green Jeep, and waves. Barbi Anne waves back. Continuing down the road, Barbi Anne responds to 34 waves from Jeepers.  " It’s a Jeep thing!"  they all yell at her. " It’s a Jeep thing!" Further down the road, Barbi Anne’s progress is temporarily halted by a herd of sheep crossing the road to greener pastures. She listens to their bleating and babbling, and observes how they all huddle together. "baaaaa…..baaaaaaaaa…bleeeeeeeet…….baaaaaaaaa".  The sheep huddle even closer across the road. " baaaaaaaa…its a jeep thing….. ……bleeeeeettttt."   The sheep babble even louder, then slowly pass over a low hill on the horizon.   Barbi Anne drives her Jeep down the road, glad that she was pressured by friends to belong to the "Jeep Thing".  Meanwhile, Jimmy is on a nearby forest road, about to park at a turnoff near a fishing stream.  Jimmy drives a Chevy 4×4 full size. He parks his rig and takes his 6 foot fly rod case out of the bed, and unloads his gear.  A man in a toyota 4runner drives by and waves. The man in the 4runner turns around to talk to the man about the fishing.    " How do you like the full size chevy?"  asks the 4runner driver.  " I like it just fine". Jimmy responds. " how do you like your 4runner?" asks jimmy.   " I like it just fine", says the 4runner driver.  " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy.  " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

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Wow, I guess you don’t understand.  I for one have always loved the Wrangler, and I just bought my 98 TJ in June(having no knowledge of the "Jeep Thing" or the waves I would get from fellow Jeepers)  I actually had to ask a friend who owns a YJ about the wave….he told me H wasn’t sure about it either.  As soon as I hit 1500 miles, I was off the pavement, with the top and the door removed.  I have no problem with any brand of 4X4, although I like some less than others  But honestly, I have never seen another group of drivers as friendly with those they don’t know or as willing to help out when someone needs it.  I’ve taken my stock(so far) jeep a few places a little above the level I should, and the one time I got stuck, I was still amazed how well it did. Ok, no more rambling…..I’m sure you’re sick of me by now

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I had a jeep and I loved it thy are good for mud raceing and for what ever ** HAVE A NICE DAY LARRY & KAREN **

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The jeeps I drove for many years were OD, that’s a different thing. The only thing now is Jeeps have become another temporary fad for the brtaibnless yuppies. This too soon will pass and jeeps will go back to being driven by real people who like them for what they are instead of a phoney status symbol. I can wait. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:    "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing".  It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged  individualists.  They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart  from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow.  What is this? Words like "belong"  and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they?  It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people.  Here comes Barbi Anne, driving her new pink Jeep onto the gravel national forest road. Ken is heading her way in his new blue Jeep,  and he waves the "jeep wave" to Barbi. Barbi waves back, smiling and giggling.  "I really belong" , thinks Barbi. " I really belong to a group of people that like me for my automobile purchase.  I feel really good about that."   Barbi Anne smiles a faint smile and continues down the road.  A few seconds later, Outback Johnny passes Barbi Anne in his new green Jeep, and waves. Barbi Anne waves back.  Continuing down the road, Barbi Anne responds to 34 waves from Jeepers.   " It’s a Jeep thing!"  they all yell at her. " It’s a Jeep thing!"  Further down the road, Barbi Anne’s progress is temporarily halted by a herd of sheep crossing the road to greener pastures. She listens to their bleating and babbling, and observes how they all huddle together.  "baaaaa…..baaaaaaaaa…bleeeeeeeet…….baaaaaaaaa".  The sheep  huddle even closer across the road. " baaaaaaaa…its a jeep thing….. ……bleeeeeettttt."   The sheep babble even louder, then slowly pass over a low hill on the horizon.   Barbi Anne drives her Jeep down the road, glad that she was pressured by friends to belong to the "Jeep Thing".   Meanwhile, Jimmy is on a nearby forest road, about to park at a turnoff near a fishing stream.  Jimmy drives a Chevy 4×4 full size. He parks his rig and takes his 6 foot fly rod case out of the bed, and unloads his gear.  A man in a toyota 4runner drives by and waves. The man in the 4runner turns around to talk to the man about the fishing.    " How do you like the full size chevy?"  asks the 4runner driver.  " I like it just fine". Jimmy responds.  " how do you like your 4runner?" asks jimmy.   " I like it just fine", says the 4runner driver.   " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy.  " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

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few to many people who are following the Jones’s unfortunately do buy them instead of mock-SUV’s like the Explorer. I for one appreciate all the Yuppie’s buying new cherokees and TJs… I see it as fodder for myself in 5 or 6 years when I’ll be buying a used 99… just think of all those Yuppie jeeps as replacement parts.  never seen the mud, never been bashed over rocks or seen any real duty.  I think its just great.

I agree with this.  The only problem is that it seems a number of the new Jeeps are automatics.  Frankly, that’s sacrilege! — Cheers…Craig — Good manners and bad breath get you nowhere – Elvis Costello — It’s no use to blame the looking glass if your face is awry – S.J. Perelman — People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don’t realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world – Calvin (& Hobbes)

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The only so called "jeepers" who really know what the "jeep thing" is, are the one’s who actually see the logic behind driving in the rain with a bikini and no doors as everyone looks at you thinking "you idiot, youre getting wet"!  I’ll share that logic with you too……It’s FUN!!!

I often get asked if my Miata is a rental since I usually leave the top down unless it is absolutely pouring or I’m in stop/go traffic. Others don’t understand that Jeeps are waterproofed from the get-go, right down to a pair of drain holes in the floorboards! Ever wonder why most CJ and Wrangler variants didn’t even come with carpetting on the floors? Too bad it’s a hassle to take the doors off and front window down now.. (sigh) Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve only had my ‘90 YJ for about 2years but …….here’s my two cents….about the "Its a jeep thing" motto I was a Boy Scout growing up, did alot of camping every summer, I was taught to respect nature, be resourceful, prepared, efficient while also being simple and functional. IMHO jeeps fit in very smoothly w/ my yuppie who only buys a jeep for the "image", and never takes it off roading….what a waste….. I dont remember where I read it, but another jeep owner made the observation that when cruising down the road/trail jeep owners inevitably always nod/wave/check out each others jeep, but you hardly ever/never see other people check out each others Metro/Toyota/Caprice/whatever……Jeeps have a tradition and jeep owners who humbly acknowledge this are the coolest. People who live by the "Its a Jeep thing motto", stop to help others out, dont drive recklessly, etc…..I think I’ll quit my rambling now……

Thank you for stating so eloquently what a lot of us are all about! Btw, I’m lucky enough to be a member of two very distinct ‘families’, the Jeep Family (by way of a lightly modded ‘93 ZJ V8 which has nearly 1/3rd of it’s 62,000 miles off road!) and the Miata club which, at least in off-road deprived Florida, is the more active and certainly more friendly of the two.  I also fall under the helping hand column. Heck, it was only Friday afternoon that I helped a poor lady push her out of gas car half a mile down the road to get it off of the worst part of the freeway.  :) You’re right.. some people just don’t get it. Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

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damn muskie that was good. i haven`t had such a good laugh in a long time . the thoughts of you playing on the floor with your barbie & ken dolls in jeeps cracked me up. could you entertain us with something about " its a 4×4 thing "  or  " its a harley thing "  or maybe a tough one like " its a man thing " ?  but please dont use your ken & barbie dolls again, i couldn`t stand the laughter. Jim

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<excellent commentary snipped Some Jeep drivers understand that.  Nothing against Toyotas or Chevys or any other vehicle or the people that driver them…it’s just a Jeep thing.

Here’s one hint: Why does everyone in a CRV, Rav-4, Tracker, Sidekick, Samurai, etc. always say "We’ll take my Jeep" but no one in a Jeep would ever say "We’ll take my CRV, etc."? There is only one Jeep. Modems.. the lightning rods of the ’90’s! (sigh) Don’t bother to E-mail.. not using my account.

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   "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing".  It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged  individualists.  They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart  from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow.  What is this? Words like "belong"  and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they?  It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people.

No, it’s true that you don’t understand but that’s okay. The sheep that you’re referring to might be the demographic majority of Jeep drivers, but those are not the people who wave at each other and say "It’s a Jeep thing."  The "Jeep thing" element, you might find, has more disdain for "sorority Jeeps," "college Jeeps," "soccer mom Jeeps," "street jeeps" and "yuppie Jeeps" than anybody. Some people like F-14s and others would rather ride a P-38 or a P-51. Some people don’t know what a P-38 is, but they’ve seen Top Gun so they think they’re aviation enthusiasts. There are those that want to belong to a group of rugged individualists, and there are those that just do.  (I’ll be modest here as I can, but as a pilot, rock singer, writer, computer geek, civil war reenactor and active environmentalist, I might not be rugged but I’m individualist…) Jeep was the first word I learned to spell, and I promised by grandfather when I was three that I would buy him a Jeep.  Image had nothing to do with it.  My oldest toy, a 1960s Tonka Jeep CJ3B, sits on my desk at work. Raise your hand if you had an infatuation with Nissan when you were three. The thing is, if you go over to the Jeep newsgroup, you’ll see that I’m not an exception…I’m average.  Probably less that average if you pay attention to the complexity of knowledge of their vehicle that some people there have.  You’ll also notice their head spin to look when they see a Willys other other vintage Jeep.  It has nothing to do with the driver. Don’t think about the guy behind the wheel…think of the Jeep. Regardless of the year, a Jeep stripped of its hard top and doors is a classic.  If you’ve ever driven through the country, tackled an ominous "intermediate" 4×4 trail with a stock Jeep or even just cruised the highway with the top off on a sunny day, you understand.  If you’ve ever pulled off the side of the road on an August evening and looked straight up at a meteor shower, you’re getting there.   If you’ve ever yanked a built-up vehicle out of a mudhole or driven your stock Jeep around a 4×4 bogged down on a snow-covered hill, you’re there. Not to trash other 4×4s…I’ve seen old Landcruisers and a heavily-modified Samurai command respect where lesser drivers in Jeeps failed…but why drive a flimsy, overpriced derivative when you can drive the real thing?   There’s just nothing like climbing up into an old CJ and staring down the short nose.  It has the feel of an old warbird…the sound of the engine, the smell of the Jeep, the feeling that you’ve strapped on wheels. It’s not the fault of Jeep drivers that these sturdy classics appear to have gone soft, but while middle America drives around the suburb in the Jeep equivalent of a sports car, those of us die-hard Jeep fans who have driven the new TJs have come to appreciate that under the cloth and plastic interior there is still a bad-ass trail truck that isn’t laden down with mystery parts and strange devices that prevent us from getting under them and making our own modifications. Some Jeep drivers understand that.  Nothing against Toyotas or Chevys or any other vehicle or the people that driver them…it’s just a Jeep thing. Chris Gattman              |  "..And the sky is humming,

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I’ve only had my ‘90 YJ for about 2years but …….here’s my two cents….about the "Its a jeep thing" motto I was a Boy Scout growing up, did alot of camping every summer, I was taught to respect nature, be resourceful, prepared, efficient while also being simple and functional. IMHO jeeps fit in very smoothly w/ my yuppie who only buys a jeep for the "image", and never takes it off roading….what a waste….. I dont remember where I read it, but another jeep owner made the observation that when cruising down the road/trail jeep owners inevitably always nod/wave/check out each others jeep, but you hardly ever/never see other people check out each others Metro/Toyota/Caprice/whatever……Jeeps have a tradition and jeep owners who humbly acknowledge this are the coolest. People who live by the "Its a Jeep thing motto", stop to help others out, dont drive recklessly, etc…..I think I’ll quit my rambling now…… –jason

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 Lately,  I hear many people who own Jeeps spouting out this phrase:    "You wouldn’t understand man….it’s a Jeep thing!"  Ok.   I guess I don’t really get it.  But I am starting to understand something about " the Jeep thing".  It seems many(not all) Jeepers want to belong to a group of rugged  individualists.  They feel that having a rugged Jeep sets them apart  from the rest of society and makes them "different" somehow.  What is this? Words like "belong"  and "group" and "individualists" really seem to contradict each other don’t they?  It seems many Jeepers want to be different, just like all the different people.  Here comes Barbi Anne, driving her new pink Jeep onto the gravel national forest road. Ken is heading her way in his new blue Jeep,  and he waves the "jeep wave" to Barbi. Barbi waves back, smiling and giggling.  "I really belong" , thinks Barbi. " I really belong to a group of people that like me for my automobile purchase.  I feel really good about that."   Barbi Anne smiles a faint smile and continues down the road.  A few seconds later, Outback Johnny passes Barbi Anne in his new green Jeep, and waves. Barbi Anne waves back.  Continuing down the road, Barbi Anne responds to 34 waves from Jeepers.   " It’s a Jeep thing!"  they all yell at her. " It’s a Jeep thing!"  Further down the road, Barbi Anne’s progress is temporarily halted by a herd of sheep crossing the road to greener pastures. She listens to their bleating and babbling, and observes how they all huddle together.  "baaaaa…..baaaaaaaaa…bleeeeeeeet…….baaaaaaaaa".  The sheep  huddle even closer across the road. " baaaaaaaa…its a jeep thing….. ……bleeeeeettttt."   The sheep babble even louder, then slowly pass over a low hill on the horizon.   Barbi Anne drives her Jeep down the road, glad that she was pressured by friends to belong to the "Jeep Thing".   Meanwhile, Jimmy is on a nearby forest road, about to park at a turnoff near a fishing stream.  Jimmy drives a Chevy 4×4 full size. He parks his rig and takes his 6 foot fly rod case out of the bed, and unloads his gear.  A man in a toyota 4runner drives by and waves. The man in the 4runner turns around to talk to the man about the fishing.    " How do you like the full size chevy?"  asks the 4runner driver.  " I like it just fine". Jimmy responds.  " how do you like your 4runner?" asks jimmy.   " I like it just fine", says the 4runner driver.     " What thing is it?" asks Jimmy.  " It’s not ANYTHING," says the 4runner driver. "it’s just a damn car." —-Muskie

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Question:

Hi Folks: The following conditions prevail in the Lamoille and Winooski Watersheds in the Greater Burlington and Stowe Regions:  Water temps are in the mid to high 60’s. Perfect I would say.  Water levels are low and clear. Bright days and cold nights have made fishing very enjoyable with the greatest activity focused on the early morning and late evening hours. Sulphurs, little yellow stones and numerous tan, black and olive caddis have been in sufficient numbers to get the trout’s attention. Cream variants have been less predictable but no less exciting.  Small beadheads of any design have been producing in the riffles mid-day.  More cool clear weather is forecasted to the weekend with a chance for boomers on Saturday and Sunday.  Great summer fishing right now.  Enjoy.  As always you are welcome to email me with specific questions.  Good fishing. And oh yeah….for the hardy souls the hex hactch is still on at select Kingdom lakes.  "You don’t know unless you go". James Ehlers Underhill, Vermont Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

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Hi Folks, Beautiful weather here in Northern Vermont…daytime temps in the 70’s and nights in the low 50’s and high 40’s.  For the Winooski and Lamoille Watersheds in the greater Burlington and Stowe areas here are the river conditions: Super Fishing! Tricos are here…size 22 and 24, and 7X tippet and hold on.  Sulphurs, Blue Quill, Isonychia, and Potamanthus are here and there.  Elk Hair Caddis as always. Water temps are low 70’s and high 60’s.  Water is low and clear as a bell. Enjoy. Always happy to answer your questions. James Ehlers Uncle Jammer’s Guide Service Vermont Fly Fishing, Hunting, River and Woodland Outings http://pobox.com/~uncle

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Question:

Scott Gaynor PS- How is the fishing going in Ohio.  I’m in Pittsburgh and where I fish it seems that most people haven’t been that successful.  Most catch one to three a day.

I have been out twice this season with no trout to show. Any hotspots in southwest Pa.? Any stream tactics etc? Any hot baits, lures. I usually use mealworms and waxworms. Thanks Jeff

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I am lookinf for a couple tips on catchin trout.  I am up in Cleveland ohio and the water condition is cold, and slightly muddy. But there are plenty of trout due to recent stocking. Now I have had luck with live baits, so I was just looking for a switch up.  Just experimentation.   So i was just wondering what you use if anytihing, in the way of false lures.   Thanks Ron

Ron, In terms of artifical lures, there are a wide variety which I have has success with. THese include Rooster Tails, the Mepps line and Silver fox.  I have found that in muddy water a nice shiny lure that is cast upstream and allowed to drift downstream and bounced along the bottom of the river and then slowly reeled in can be quite effective. I first learned this when I was a kid.  What a sight.  Twenty people fishing this stretch of stream and no one catching anything, except me a fifteen year old.  I was using a small (size 0 or 1) silver fox spinner. Hope this helps, Scott Gaynor PS- How is the fishing going in Ohio.  I’m in Pittsburgh and where I fish it seems that most people haven’t been that successful.  Most catch one to three a day.

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I am lookinf for a couple tips on catchin trout.  I am up in Cleveland ohio and the water condition is cold, and slightly muddy. But there are plenty of trout due to recent stocking.  Now I have had luck with live baits, so I was just looking for a switch up.  Just experimentation.   So i was just wondering what you use if anytihing, in the way of false lures.   Thanks Ron

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try cheese, american works the best

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I am lookinf for a couple tips on catchin trout.  I am up in Cleveland ohio and the water condition is cold, and slightly muddy. But there are plenty of trout due to recent stocking.  Now I have had luck with live baits, so I was just looking for a switch up.  Just experimentation.   So i was just wondering what you use if anytihing, in the way of false lures.   Thanks Ron

I’ve fished for trout a lot. The best I’ve found is salmon eggs laid on the bottom. (Red Balls of Fire) I’ve also used spinners successfully in lakes. Eggs work the best in streams.  I also sometimes get a bobber, attach a hook with eggs to a leader, and float the hooks into waterfalls or calm areas. I always catch something. KM  NM

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I am lookinf for a couple tips on catchin trout.  I am up in Cleveland ohio and the water condition is cold, and slightly muddy. But there are plenty of trout due to recent stocking. Now I have had luck with live baits, so I was just looking for a switch up.  Just experimentation.   So i was just wondering what you use if anytihing, in the way of false lures.   Thanks Ron

My favorite method for catching trout is fly fishing.  The advantages include a wide variety of ‘bait’…  if they won’t bite on one fly you just try another.  Watching for the bugs that are hatching while you are fishing gives you some idea of what type of fly to use that day. The act of fly fishing is a great relaxer to me…  the casting motions, the need to really watch your fly for strikes, the satisfaction of catching fish on a fly you’ve tied yourself… Time to go.  Gotta catch some brookies.                     /                /  /__/    JourneysNorth’s Original Gary K. Foote /  /     / Mt.Washington Valley Guide Activities, Lodging, Dining, Attractions, Events, More_____ P.O. Box 3214, North Conway, New Hampshire 03860 (603)356-7111

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A friend of mine heard on NPR that an undergraduate physics student at Reed College has won a national physics prize for best undergraduate paper, and that his subject concerned the physics of flycasting.   Does anyone know who the student is, an email address, or how to get a copy of the paper?  I would be quite interested in seeing it and hearing from the student.         — Jim Comly Dr. James B. Comly (Jim); Physicist, Artificial Intelligence GE Corporate R&D, 1 River Road, Schenectady, NY 12301

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A friend of mine heard on NPR that an undergraduate physics student at Reed College has won a national physics prize for best undergraduate paper, and that his subject concerned the physics of flycasting.   Does anyone know who the student is, an email address, or how to get a copy of the paper?  I would be quite interested in seeing it and hearing from the student.    – Jim Comly Dr. James B. Comly (Jim); Physicist, Artificial Intelligence GE Corporate R&D, 1 River Road, Schenectady, NY 12301

A week or so ago I posted to the flyfishing group details of an article in the American J. Physics on the subject of the physics of flycasting.  I think the author was R.J. Adams but I did not keep the details of the reference.  If anyone reads both groups they may be able to give the details I posted. Gordon MacPherson Dunn School of Pathology Oxford University

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For those of you who are interested, there are two articles on the subject of flycasting in the American Journal of Physics. The references are:   The mechanics of flycasting: The flyline   Graig A. Spolek   Am. J. Phys. vol. 54, September 1986, pp 832-836   The physics of fly casting   John M. Robson   Am. J. Phys. vol. 58, March 1990, pp 234-240 Hope you enjoy them ! Eric Allen

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