Question:

"ci+" <c…@ciNukeSpam.com> wrote in news:Xns95583DE20A3D7ci@65.245.115.2: > not mentioning that some of hose were Carter ‘babies’. also ignoring > reasons why a repug or demcon might have rejected those weapons, such as > obsolescence  

Hey, the B1 was great in Afghanistan, we can pound the hell out people–as long as they have no fighter or missle defenses!

Response:

"Eerie Cabinets of Dr. Rodent" <a…@at.org> in news:Xns955840562E99Ffkjdlkvjcxoiuarepoij@68.6.19.6: >"ci+" <c…@ciNukeSpam.com> wrote in >news:Xns95583DE20A3D7ci@65.245.115.2: >> not mentioning that some of hose were Carter ‘babies’. also ignoring >> reasons why a repug or demcon might have rejected those weapons, such >> as obsolescence   > Hey, the B1 was great in Afghanistan, we can pound the hell out > people–as long as they have no fighter or missle defenses!

it must be cheaper to operate than a  b2. maybe the costs have been amortized or whatever. maybe it carries more tonnage than a b2? — If Tolkien didn’t want us to eat Hobbits, why did he make them of meat?

Response:

"ci+" <c…@ciNukeSpam.com> wrote in news:Xns95587B395BB97ci@65.245.115.2: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Eerie Cabinets of Dr. Rodent" <a…@at.org> in > news:Xns955840562E99Ffkjdlkvjcxoiuarepoij@68.6.19.6: >>"ci+" <c…@ciNukeSpam.com> wrote in >>news:Xns95583DE20A3D7ci@65.245.115.2: >>> not mentioning that some of hose were Carter ‘babies’. also ignoring >>> reasons why a repug or demcon might have rejected those weapons, such >>> as obsolescence   >> Hey, the B1 was great in Afghanistan, we can pound the hell out >> people–as long as they have no fighter or missle defenses! > it must be cheaper to operate than a  b2. maybe the costs have been > amortized or whatever. maybe it carries more tonnage than a b2?

It was made in California…which has a large number of representatives in Congress.  Other than that I can’t think of a reason why the USAF wanted a high-altitude bomber.  Vested interests & entrenched beauracrats would be my guess. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

"Eerie Cabinets of Dr. Rodent" <a…@at.org> wrote in message <news:Xns95582DA24AE22fkjdlkvjcxoiuarepoij@68.6.19.6>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Cutups and Cutthroats > By MAUREEN DOWD > Published: September 2, 2004 > I always enjoy hearing about how a teenage Dick Cheney stood off to the > side with buckets of water to put out Lynne’s flaming batons. > But there was an even better moment during Claire Shipman’s two-part "Good > Morning America" interview at the Wyoming ranch this week. Trying to > humanize Dr. No, ABC was let into the inner sanctum to watch Mr. Cheney > take his 4-year-old granddaughter on her first solo horsie ride and hear > how he’s teaching his granddaughters fly-fishing. > Advertisement > Ms. Shipman asked the vice president "his greatest guilty pleasure." > His wife quickly interjected that it was fishing. But we all know, of > course, it’s global domination. > It’s always amusing to watch Republicans try to get down. At convention > time, they stop bilking Joe Lunchbox to act like Joe Lunchbox.

how do you make hitler funny? h

Response:

"Eerie Cabinets of Dr. Rodent" <a…@at.org> in news:Xns95582DA24AE22fkjdlkvjcxoiuarepoij@68.6.19.6: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Cutups and Cutthroats > By MAUREEN DOWD > Published: September 2, 2004 > I always enjoy hearing about how a teenage Dick Cheney stood off to > the side with buckets of water to put out Lynne’s flaming batons. > But there was an even better moment during Claire Shipman’s two-part > "Good Morning America" interview at the Wyoming ranch this week. > Trying to humanize Dr. No, ABC was let into the inner sanctum to watch > Mr. Cheney take his 4-year-old granddaughter on her first solo horsie > ride and hear how he’s teaching his granddaughters fly-fishing. > Advertisement > Ms. Shipman asked the vice president "his greatest guilty pleasure." > His wife quickly interjected that it was fishing. But we all know, of > course, it’s global domination. > It’s always amusing to watch Republicans try to get down. At > convention time, they stop bilking Joe Lunchbox to act like Joe > Lunchbox. > How awkward in Columbus, when W., hanging with Jack Nicklaus, noted > that his grandfather was born there, so they should "send a homeboy > back to Washington, D.C." Do they know a homeboy from a Lawn-Boy? > How you livin’, dawg? > And speaking of dawgs, whuddup with that video of Barney debating that > French poodle Fifi Kerry about taxes? By the time the twins finished > their White House Valley Girl routine, and Karl Rove and Karen Hughes > went all giddy in the sendup, the convention’s arc was clear. > Highly scripted screwball moments designed to soothe fears that the > Bushies are bullies alternate with high-octane, turbo moments designed > to stir up fears that we won’t be safe without the Bush bullies. > Unlike the arrogant Boston Kerry strategists, who focus-grouped and > dial-a- metered their convention to death, scrubbing most of the > direct attacks on President Bush, the arrogant Austin Bush strategists > have encouraged their non-girlie-men speakers to put the pedal to the > metal and flatten the poor Democrat who is windsurfing through his > free fall. > Despite the fact that the economy is cratering, Iraq is teetering,

those 2 seem exaggerated . > Afghanistan is reverting to warlords,

is it? i think it’s had setbacks, and their citizens suffer typical human inflexibilty… guaranteeing slow social progress…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Dick Cheney is glowering at the > world, the war on terror has created more acts of terror, Ahmad > Chalabi is an accused spy for Iran and the Pentagon has an accused spy > for Israel, Republicans felt so good about themselves that when Arnold > Schwarzenegger said he was inspired to become a Republican by Richard > Nixon, they exploded. When Tricky Dick is a hot applause line, they’re > feeling cocky. > Republicans are political killers. They are confident that Americans, > in a 9/11 world, are going to be more drawn to political killers who > have made some "miscalculations" on Iraq, as W. put it, than with a > shaggy-haired Vietnam War protester whom Bush 41 compares to Hanoi > Jane. >"I still have great difficulty with his coming back and making those > statements before the Congress and throwing medals away," the > president’s father told Don Imus yesterday. > Republicans know that plunging ahead with a course of action, even if > it becomes obvious it’s wrong, is an easier political sell than > flip-flopping, even if it’s right.

funny how foxnews dittohead hotheads don’t even realize that the repugs are sinking in their own quicksand… all on their own. no one is really opposing them. > When the president slipped, admitting that the war on terror is > unwinnable – perhaps recognizing that terror’s a tactic, not an enemy > – he had to be saved later by Laura Bush, who fixed his stumble into > nuance. Then Mr. Kerry made the mistake of responding in Bush > black-and-white, calling the war on terror winnable.

ha! kerry says almost nothing. bush out-bloopers kerry. which is worse? … >: > While Democrats whined about the meanies and their Swift boat attacks, > the G.O.P. juggernaut rolled on. > Zell Miller, playing Cotton Mather behind the cross-like lectern, made > Mr. Cheney seem rational, with a maniacal litany of weapons he said > Mr. Kerry had opposed that can destroy any mud hut in any third world > country: B-1 and B-2 bombers, F-14A Tomcats, F-15 Eagles, Patriot and > Trident missiles, and Aegis cruisers.

not mentioning that some of hose were Carter ‘babies’. also ignoring reasons why a repug or demcon might have rejected those weapons, such as obsolescence   > Just as the "third party" ad effort has been ferocious and misleading, > so have some of the attack speeches here. Dick Cheney stomped on John > Kerry the way he’s stomped on the world. In fact, he stomped on Mr. > Kerry for trying to get along with the world: "He talks about leading > ‘a more sensitive war on terror’ as though Al Qaeda will be impressed > with our softer side." It’s nice to know Mr. Cheney remembers Al > Qaeda.

 ’a more sensitive war on terror’ i’ve hearda bout this only via insulting reactoins. just now googled, http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg200408061120.asp whihc is amazingly polite ciriticism, rare among wrought-wingers. if this column is accurate regarding kerry’s intended meaning behind his phrase ‘more sensitive war on terror’, then kerry’s missing out on what his phrase *should* have meant. becoming frineds with citizens of countries whrer terrorirsts "breed" is probably the most effective "war   on terror"…. ’sensitive’ or ‘nonsensitive’. > As others raged, Mr. Bush flew to New York and went to an Italian > community center to eat pizza with Queens firemen. The homeboy was > having a ruthless, but effective, week.

did they have an orgies? why do repugs have all the fun! i must be too sensitive. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8 &q=firemen+sex+Scandal++Fordham+%7C+Brooklyn%7C+york — A nude Gollum on your doorstep is burn baby, burn

Response:

Cutups and Cutthroats By MAUREEN DOWD Published: September 2, 2004 I always enjoy hearing about how a teenage Dick Cheney stood off to the side with buckets of water to put out Lynne’s flaming batons. But there was an even better moment during Claire Shipman’s two-part "Good Morning America" interview at the Wyoming ranch this week. Trying to humanize Dr. No, ABC was let into the inner sanctum to watch Mr. Cheney take his 4-year-old granddaughter on her first solo horsie ride and hear how he’s teaching his granddaughters fly-fishing. Advertisement Ms. Shipman asked the vice president "his greatest guilty pleasure." His wife quickly interjected that it was fishing. But we all know, of course, it’s global domination. It’s always amusing to watch Republicans try to get down. At convention time, they stop bilking Joe Lunchbox to act like Joe Lunchbox. How awkward in Columbus, when W., hanging with Jack Nicklaus, noted that his grandfather was born there, so they should "send a homeboy back to Washington, D.C." Do they know a homeboy from a Lawn-Boy? How you livin’, dawg? And speaking of dawgs, whuddup with that video of Barney debating that French poodle Fifi Kerry about taxes? By the time the twins finished their White House Valley Girl routine, and Karl Rove and Karen Hughes went all giddy in the sendup, the convention’s arc was clear. Highly scripted screwball moments designed to soothe fears that the Bushies are bullies alternate with high-octane, turbo moments designed to stir up fears that we won’t be safe without the Bush bullies. Unlike the arrogant Boston Kerry strategists, who focus-grouped and dial-a- metered their convention to death, scrubbing most of the direct attacks on President Bush, the arrogant Austin Bush strategists have encouraged their non-girlie-men speakers to put the pedal to the metal and flatten the poor Democrat who is windsurfing through his free fall. Despite the fact that the economy is cratering, Iraq is teetering, Afghanistan is reverting to warlords, Dick Cheney is glowering at the world, the war on terror has created more acts of terror, Ahmad Chalabi is an accused spy for Iran and the Pentagon has an accused spy for Israel, Republicans felt so good about themselves that when Arnold Schwarzenegger said he was inspired to become a Republican by Richard Nixon, they exploded. When Tricky Dick is a hot applause line, they’re feeling cocky. Republicans are political killers. They are confident that Americans, in a 9/11 world, are going to be more drawn to political killers who have made some "miscalculations" on Iraq, as W. put it, than with a shaggy-haired Vietnam War protester whom Bush 41 compares to Hanoi Jane. "I still have great difficulty with his coming back and making those statements before the Congress and throwing medals away," the president’s father told Don Imus yesterday. Republicans know that plunging ahead with a course of action, even if it becomes obvious it’s wrong, is an easier political sell than flip-flopping, even if it’s right. When the president slipped, admitting that the war on terror is unwinnable – perhaps recognizing that terror’s a tactic, not an enemy – he had to be saved later by Laura Bush, who fixed his stumble into nuance. Then Mr. Kerry made the mistake of responding in Bush black-and-white, calling the war on terror winnable. While Democrats whined about the meanies and their Swift boat attacks, the G.O.P. juggernaut rolled on. Zell Miller, playing Cotton Mather behind the cross-like lectern, made Mr. Cheney seem rational, with a maniacal litany of weapons he said Mr. Kerry had opposed that can destroy any mud hut in any third world country: B-1 and B-2 bombers, F-14A Tomcats, F-15 Eagles, Patriot and Trident missiles, and Aegis cruisers. Just as the "third party" ad effort has been ferocious and misleading, so have some of the attack speeches here. Dick Cheney stomped on John Kerry the way he’s stomped on the world. In fact, he stomped on Mr. Kerry for trying to get along with the world: "He talks about leading ‘a more sensitive war on terror’ as though Al Qaeda will be impressed with our softer side." It’s nice to know Mr. Cheney remembers Al Qaeda. As others raged, Mr. Bush flew to New York and went to an Italian community center to eat pizza with Queens firemen. The homeboy was having a ruthless, but effective, week.

Response:

Question:

" so I my be incommunicado for a while anyway.

so what’s different? –waldo

Response:

The cash register at your shop communicated just fine with me today, as did Tommy. Damn that fella can sell! Op

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – " so I my be incommunicado for a while anyway. so what’s different? –waldo

Response:

<SNIP Op  –but maybe I will be able to afford to sex– Unlike ISP

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s the headline on a story in today’s Centre Deadly Times. Some details: The Penn’s Valley Conservation Association has begun installing deflectors, made of hemlock logs and limestone ballast, in the Creek  near Coburn. The deflectors measure 56 feet by 32 feet.  They will cover a stretch of stream  about 1000 feet long. No completion date was given. These types of stream improvement projects were popular twenty or thirty years ago. I thought they had become out of favor for a variety of reasons. I think we should mitigate damage than we have done to streams and rivers, but I have problems with the concept of putting in  man made objects to improve streams even if it makes the fish catching better. Are they still popular back East?

A couple of my favorite Back Eastern rivers are much more hospitable to the finned critters because TU erected wing dams and planted willows…

Response:

The only trout stream in Central Ohio was …’improved’ many years ago by farming. the stream, which was appropriately named the Mad River, meandered, twisted and turned for many miles. This habitually moving stretch of water was ‘channeled to make it flow more straight and not interfere with farming. Today, it reminds me of the concrete troughs of a fish hatchery. Local clubs and groups are forever trying to ‘improve’ the stream. Various damns and deflectors help restore some of the cover that was lost. ….there is no point to this post so don’t look for it…. john

Response:

These types of stream improvement projects were popular twenty or thirty years ago. I thought they had become out of favor for a variety of reasons. I think we should mitigate damage than we have done to streams and rivers, but I have problems with the concept of putting in  man made objects to improve streams even if it makes the fish catching better. Are they still popular back East? Willi

Some of the sections of Penns that I’ve been on, run pretty straight and flat, especially the section near Coburn.  If the Holy Water can tolerate a few log jams, I’m sure Penns can. Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The only trout stream in Central Ohio was …’improved’ many years ago by farming. the stream, which was appropriately named the Mad River, meandered, twisted and turned for many miles. This habitually moving stretch of water was ‘channeled to make it flow more straight and not interfere with farming. Today, it reminds me of the concrete troughs of a fish hatchery. Local clubs and groups are forever trying to ‘improve’ the stream. Various damns and deflectors help restore some of the cover that was lost. ….there is no point to this post so don’t look for it…. john

john, john, john. How many times do we have to tell you: nullifying disclaimers go at the TOP of the post. Geeze… /daytripper (For the sake of good order ‘n’ stuff

Response:

john, john, john. How many times do we have to tell you: nullifying disclaimers go at the TOP of the post. Geeze… /daytripper (For the sake of good order ‘n’ stuff

Hell, you deny everything from the time you get up each day.  So what’s new?

  george.vcf

1K Download

Response:

john, john, john. How many times do we have to tell you: nullifying disclaimers go at the TOP of the post. Geeze… /daytripper (For the sake of good order ‘n’ stuff Hell, you deny everything from the time you get up each day.  So what’s new?

Shouldn’t you be ruining some ferrules for more soon-to-be-ex-customers? /daytripper (Thinking about Ginking? See www.ginkstinks.org)

Response:

…….Every old #12 we have here beats anything daytripper is strugglilng with.

Not sure that’s true.  It would appear that it’s damned near impossible to keep it lit. Wolfgang don’t bogart that stake my friend…..

Response:

  There’s a 72% chance that your problem is that you’re sending only about 5/6 of a fly rod to each customer.  No charge for this one….

ROTFLOL!!!!

Response:

—–BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE—– Hash: SHA1 Daytripper, I built over (OVER) 100 bamboo fly rods last year and that means over 130  very happy, happy customers.  You, on the other hand don’t know

100 fly rods for 130 customers. Jesus H. Christ, how many different people got #12? – — "Armchair warriors often fail, and we’ve been  poisoned by these fairy tales" -Don Henley —–BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE—– Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE7z2B4rpli/675/DERArbUAKDnIgvhJtyyFM7gHSF6y9MjtSORZgCfQcVW fXl0F8mo4RaW533IyCKfqzc= =ir2+ —–END PGP SIGNATURE—–

Response:

Daytripper, I built over (OVER) 100 bamboo fly rods last year and that means over 130  very happy, happy customers. Being the astute mathematician I am, I’m in a position to help your business as a consultant here George.  There’s a 72% chance that your problem is that you’re sending only about 5/6 of a fly rod to each customer.  No charge for this one….

Being the man about bamboo town, 5/6th’s of anything I do beats any plastic job you’re using Jeff.  But that is alright.  At least you’re fishing ’something’ even if it is only half as nice as bamboo.  (still guessing 50/50  and still flipping that dime, huh?) Take care Jeff. Mr.G.

  george.vcf

1K Download

Response:

Do you want an old #12 Wolfgang?   Numberology is religeous truth.  Every old #12 we have here beats anything daytripper is strugglilng with.  Trust me.  You would be the 13th owner and proud to have one.  How should I label it now? hum???? #13 of #12? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Ah, so old #12 is now in the hands of its thirtieth happy customer! Well, ain’t that a wonderment! Wolfgang numerology sucks

  george.vcf

1K Download

Response:

Daytripper, I built over (OVER) 100 bamboo fly rods last year and that means over 130  very happy, happy customers.

Ah, so old #12 is now in the hands of its thirtieth happy customer! Well, ain’t that a wonderment! Wolfgang numerology sucks

Response:

Why in the world would they want to screw up a perfectly good fishing area. I read the article seems to me they will be screwing up Penns below Coburn with more silt and debris.    mike www.centredailytimes.com go to news

Response:

Daytripper, I built over (OVER) 100 bamboo fly rods last year and that means over 130  very happy, happy customers.

Being the astute mathematician I am, I’m in a position to help your business as a consultant here George.  There’s a 72% chance that your problem is that you’re sending only about 5/6 of a fly rod to each customer.  No charge for this one….

Response:

Daytripper, I built over (OVER) 100 bamboo fly rods last year and that means over 130  very happy, happy customers.  You, on the other hand don’t know anything about bamboo fly rods  because you’ve proven that over and over again.  That I build a phenominal, high quality fly rod now seems to escape you.  So why don’t you just put it in your ear?

Fuck off, moron. Your rods are the joke of the industry – right behind your own visage. Everyone here knows the saga of #6, #11, and #12, to name a famous few. You raved about how fine those pieces of shite were, too, and tried to trash more than a few victims along the way who had the temerity to return them. Hell, #12 was an industry joke, returned by three different people before you finally snuck off and gave it away outright. btw, I have more than a few fine cane rods. Add them together and I could buy your single-wide right out from under you. None of them have your name on them. Coincidence? I don’t think so You want to play? You want me to have to beat you with the clue bat again? I got all the ammo I’ll ever need, and all of it is in your own words. Maybe roll out the entire Original Book of Gink, chapter by chapter? Should be great for bizness, eh? Go for it, Gehrkins. So stick all that where sun don’t shine, whacko. God knows you got plenty of room up there… hth? /daytripper

Response:

Daytripper, I built over (OVER) 100 bamboo fly rods last year and that means over 130  very happy, happy customers.  You, on the other hand don’t know anything about bamboo fly rods  because you’ve proven that over and over again.  That I build a phenominal, high quality fly rod now seems to escape you.  So why don’t you just put it in your ear? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – john, john, john. How many times do we have to tell you: nullifying disclaimers go at the TOP of the post. Geeze… /daytripper (For the sake of good order ‘n’ stuff Hell, you deny everything from the time you get up each day.  So what’s new? Shouldn’t you be ruining some ferrules for more soon-to-be-ex-customers? /daytripper (Thinking about Ginking? See www.ginkstinks.org)

And regarding the above posting by yourself, let us just check that out and see who the hell wants to start something?  It better not be active, let me say that just for starters.

  george.vcf

1K Download

Response:

That’s the headline on a story in today’s Centre Deadly Times. Some details: The Penn’s Valley Conservation Association has begun installing deflectors, made of hemlock logs and limestone ballast, in the Creek  near Coburn. The deflectors measure 56 feet by 32 feet.  They will cover a stretch of stream  about 1000 feet long. No completion date was given.

These types of stream improvement projects were popular twenty or thirty years ago. I thought they had become out of favor for a variety of reasons. I think we should mitigate damage than we have done to streams and rivers, but I have problems with the concept of putting in  man made objects to improve streams even if it makes the fish catching better. Are they still popular back East? Willi

Response:

Vince,   I think this would be above the junction with Elk, a stretch which is stocked by the state. I may be wrong, keep us posted.                        Tom

Response:

That’s the headline on a story in today’s Centre Deadly Times. Some details: The Penn’s Valley Conservation Association has begun installing deflectors, made of hemlock logs and limestone ballast, in the Creek  near Coburn. The deflectors measure 56 feet by 32 feet.  They will cover a stretch of stream  about 1000 feet long. No completion date was given. vince norris

Response:

Question:

And Maclean’s book is a masterpiece. wulfie, if you think "guns of navarone" is a masterpiece, yer crazier than george.

Well, you should see the MOVIE!! Wolfgang whoo boy!  some people don’t know no more about amurrican literature than a english cooke

Response:

And Maclean’s book is a masterpiece. wulfie, if you think "guns of navarone" is a masterpiece, yer crazier than george. Well, you should see the MOVIE!!

That’s who mentioned you.  Perhaps you should give Wayne a ration of crap.. . . ..Wolfie, got any sleep lately? — Warren Findley Yellowstone Clave info at: www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

It IS a good movie though.  And Maclean’s book is a masterpiece. Ever read it? did, think so.

No.  You posted a 3 line reply and asked one question in those three lines which I answered.  You never mentioned anything about what I did, did not do or even mentioned anything I said to the guy who is not a newbie (check google.  I know I have seen that name around here before).  Why would I be pissed at anything you did.  You said it was a good movie, agreed.  You said the book was very good, agreed.  You asked if I had read the book and I had.  What would make me angry about that?  Nothing. O.K. then did I do or say anything that suggested I give a fuck whether or not you go ballistic over nothing in is speculation about who stepped on your dick lately.

Did I get mad at you?  Show me where I said "Wolfgang, you have done me wrong!"  Quit chasing windmills Wolfie, you are *crazy* enough without proving it and we love it! <g guess we won’t go into that.

Well, seeing as how you butted into something that didn’t involve you, never even addressed you, never were asked an opinion…well, you can guess who you remind me of. .. . . got anything you wanna sell?

GRAPHITE tomato stakes!  $5 + S&H! — Warren Findley Yellowstone Clave info at: www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

Warren would have us believe: If it wasn’t for the clave I probably would have posted something like: "I really don’t give a flying rat’s ass if some dipshit yuppie pond scum has "discovered" it and is living his life by it.  As far as I am concerned, he can lick my ass in search of brown trout.  I have a great book from Gierach, should I post it here?  There is a section of about 30 pages that would do well around here, you ready for it? Screw that shit.  Hey Yuppie, sucka la cock beyotch."

About an hour or two at one of my fishing holes and the mosquitoes will have sucked all the yuppie-jeep-cherokee-driver-posting-10k-worth-of other-peoples-books-magic-crystal-anemic-droopy-drawers-sentimentality right out of him. The Old Crow and the Pall Malls should do the rest… — Rusty Hook Laramie, Wyoming

Response:

When was I mad at you? Wolfgang you can be mad at me wulfie if it makes ya feel any better….

O.K. thanks.  Um……mind if I take a raincheck on that though?  Right now I am so furious with…….um…….well, somebody or other, that I can spare the anger.  Some time around the end of May suit you? waldo ps: bring white wine to porkies…. gallons <g

boat.  How ’bout it John, do we wanna see Opie waltzin with bears? Wolfgang

Response:

When was I mad at you? Wolfgang you can be mad at me wulfie if it makes ya feel any better…. O.K. thanks.  Um……mind if I take a raincheck on that though?  Right now I am so furious with…….um…….well, somebody or other, that I can spare the anger.  Some time around the end of May suit you?

lessee here… may, may, end of may…. uhmm, you’ll probably need to get in line at that time…. yup, that is right after the PA clave… after i catch ‘dem big ole’ browns, jeffie and tom will be in line ahead of ya. <g -ww

Response:

Well, I’ve been looking at that sentence for five minutes Wayne was the one that mentioned you in the thread, not me.

That reads a lot like the one that had me stumped last night.  Today, after a good night’s sleep, it has exactly the same effect as t’other. Perhaps you should give Wayne a ration of crap.. . . .. For what? I don’t know.

Ah yes, that helps a lot. Why were you mad at me when I never even mentioned you or did anything to you?

When was I mad at you? Wolfgang

Response:

When was I mad at you? Wolfgang

you can be mad at me wulfie if it makes ya feel any better…. waldo ps: bring white wine to porkies…. gallons <g

Response:

Well, I’ve been looking at that sentence for five minutes

Wayne was the one that mentioned you in the thread, not me. Perhaps you should give Wayne a ration of crap.. . . .. For what?

I don’t know.  Why were you mad at me when I never even mentioned you or did anything to you? Wolfie, got any sleep lately? Yep.  I make a point of it.

Good!  I have been making a point of it too lately — Warren Findley Yellowstone Clave info at: www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And Maclean’s book is a masterpiece. wulfie, if you think "guns of navarone" is a masterpiece, yer crazier than george. Well, you should see the MOVIE!! That’s who mentioned you.

Well, I’ve been looking at that sentence for five minutes Perhaps you should give Wayne a ration of crap.. . . ..

For what? Wolfie, got any sleep lately?

Yep.  I make a point of it. Wolfgang

Response:

Norman Maclean Photo Gallery http://www.baylor.edu/~Julia_Lunsford/imagelink.html A River Runs Through It Trivia http://montanakids.com/db_engine/presentations/presentation.asp?pid=247

Response:

Who cares?!?!?!  WTF is up with "the movie" shit?!?!  Lemme guess, you are another yuppie that took up fly fishing because of "the movie" right?

Norman Maclean Photo Gallery http://www.baylor.edu/~Julia_Lunsford/imagelink.html A River Runs Through It Trivia

http://montanakids.com/db_engine/presentations/presentation.asp?pid=24 7 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Who cares?!?!?!  WTF is up with "the movie" shit?!?!  Lemme guess, you are another yuppie that took up fly fishing because of "the movie" right?

It IS a good movie though.  And Maclean’s book is a masterpiece.  Ever read it? Wolfgang

Response:

And Maclean’s book is a masterpiece.

wulfie, if you think "guns of navarone" is a masterpiece, yer crazier than george. –waldo

Response:

It IS a good movie though.  And Maclean’s book is a masterpiece. Ever read it?

I have seen the movie several times and read the book.  So? If I weren’t a second hand clavemeister, I probably would have posted something along the lines of what Wayne did.  If it wasn’t for the clave I probably would have posted something like: "I really don’t give a flying rat’s ass if some dipshit yuppie pond scum has "discovered" it and is living his life by it.  As far as I am concerned, he can lick my ass in search of brown trout.  I have a great book from Gierach, should I post it here?  There is a section of about 30 pages that would do well around here, you ready for it? Screw that shit.  Hey Yuppie, sucka la cock beyotch." NOTE: The above was a dramatization and cannot reflect on either me nor the Yellowstone Clave.  <insert touchy feely crap here — Warren Findley Yellowstone Clave info at: www.geocities.com/troutbum_mt

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It IS a good movie though.  And Maclean’s book is a masterpiece. Ever read it? I have seen the movie several times and read the book.  So? If I weren’t a second hand clavemeister, I probably would have posted something along the lines of what Wayne did.  If it wasn’t for the clave I probably would have posted something like: "I really don’t give a flying rat’s ass if some dipshit yuppie pond scum has "discovered" it and is living his life by it.  As far as I am concerned, he can lick my ass in search of brown trout.  I have a great book from Gierach, should I post it here?  There is a section of about 30 pages that would do well around here, you ready for it? Screw that shit.  Hey Yuppie, sucka la cock beyotch." NOTE: The above was a dramatization and cannot reflect on either me nor the Yellowstone Clave.  <insert touchy feely crap here

so.  O.K. then did I do or say anything that suggested I give a fuck whether or not you go ballistic over nothing in speculation about who stepped on your dick lately. we won’t go into that. Wolfgang got anything you wanna sell?

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever tried this? It occurred to me while watching Charlie West’s fly fishing show on the Outdoor Life Channel. They had such good photos of aquatic insects or their aquatic forms, I wondered how they were obtained. It occurred to me that it might be possible to collect a few nymphs from a local stream and "grow" them in a home aquarium. I could even design an aquarium in a devil’s food, cake-pan shape to allow some sort of stream flow imitation in case they need moving water. Any ideas? In a regular aquarium, the normal inhabitants wouldn’t even have to be evicted if I were to use caddis nymphs. No tetra in it’s right mind would attack something that size that is also covered in gravel Maybe I could thin out the fish population in the tank with dragonfly larvae. Fun to watch and I would have a biological model for fly tying! This could become an interesting thread! Thanks, David Buschhorn

Hi David-    We’ve been raising aquatic insects for over 15 years. Let me know exactly what kind of bugs you want to grow and hatch and I’m sure we can help you out.    -Ralph —

Response:

Has anyone ever tried this?

. . . Thanks, David Buschhorn

David, I know of at least two reference books on hatches in which the authors report having raised mayflies, stoneflies, and caddis in an aquarium. In both "Hatches II" by Caucci & Nastasi and "Western Hatches" by Hafele & Hughes the authors make several references to raising and observing mayflies in their home aquariums. I think there may be some pointers included on how to actually raise aquatic insects in an aquarium yourself, so I’d highly recommend these two sources as a starting point. Regards, Fred

Response:

David. Growing your own nymphs is a piece of cake. Clean water, a sandy or silt bottom to the tank, aeration, and some plant life from where you collected your nymphs are really all that is required. Your nymphs will feed off the plants or detritus, and you’ll even see the nymphs grazing from any algae that grows on the side of the tank. I’ve reared many species here in England. The principals would be the same where you are. Best of all is the ability to watch nymphs hatch just inches away from your face. So too is the feature of watching the sub imago change to imago. Caddisfly larvae and dragonfly larvae will eat anything else in your tank so be careful which species you stock with. If you are into photography you’ll also get great shots of the emerging nymphs and the various stages of adult fly life. You might find also that this side of your hobby will be as enjoyable as actually fishing. Good Luck. Dave. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Has anyone ever tried this? It occurred to me while watching Charlie West’s fly fishing show on the Outdoor Life Channel. They had such good photos of aquatic insects or their aquatic forms, I wondered how they were obtained. It occurred to me that it might be possible to collect a few nymphs from a local stream and "grow" them in a home aquarium. I could even design an aquarium in a devil’s food, cake-pan shape to allow some sort of stream flow imitation in case they need moving water. Any ideas? In a regular aquarium, the normal inhabitants wouldn’t even have to be evicted if I were to use caddis nymphs. No tetra in it’s right mind would attack something that size that is also covered in gravel Maybe I could thin out the fish population in the tank with dragonfly larvae. Fun to watch and I would have a biological model for fly tying! This could become an interesting thread! Thanks, David Buschhorn

– dave tait

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone ever tried this? It occurred to me while watching Charlie West’s fly fishing show on the Outdoor Life Channel. They had such good photos of aquatic insects or their aquatic forms, I wondered how they were obtained. It occurred to me that it might be possible to collect a few nymphs from a local stream and "grow" them in a home aquarium. I could even design an aquarium in a devil’s food, cake-pan shape to allow some sort of stream flow imitation in case they need moving water. Any ideas? In a regular aquarium, the normal inhabitants wouldn’t even have to be evicted if I were to use caddis nymphs. No tetra in it’s right mind would attack something that size that is also covered in gravel Maybe I could thin out the fish population in the tank with dragonfly larvae. Fun to watch and I would have a biological model for fly tying! This could become an interesting thread! Thanks, David Buschhorn

David, Grow enough of them and you can create your own hatches! Seriously, Swisher and Richard’s book:  "Selective Trout" goes into detail on this subject.  It’s a great book. Jack

Response:

Has anyone ever tried this? It occurred to me while watching Charlie West’s fly fishing show on the Outdoor Life Channel.

<snip It occurred to me that it might be possible to collect a few nymphs from a local stream and "grow" them in a home aquarium. <snip Any ideas?

<snip  Fun to watch and I would have a biological model for This could become an interesting thread! Thanks, David Buschhorn

Greetings, David, yes, this might get interesting.  I can’t help you much, however, I would suggest you cross-post this to the news groups:                                    sci.bio.fisheries or possibly the group:             sci. aquaria                 Someone in these groups should have some valuable information for you in this regard.  _Good luck on your project, and keep us informed on its progress!_ Cheers, and tight lines -Mark

Response:

Has anyone ever tried this? It occurred to me while watching Charlie West’s fly fishing show on the Outdoor Life Channel. They had such good photos of aquatic insects or their aquatic forms, I wondered how they were obtained. It occurred to me that it might be possible to collect a few nymphs from a local stream and "grow" them in a home aquarium. I could even design an aquarium in a devil’s food, cake-pan shape to allow some sort of stream flow imitation in case they need moving water. Any ideas? In a regular aquarium, the normal inhabitants wouldn’t even have to be evicted if I were to use caddis nymphs. No tetra in it’s right mind would attack something that size that is also covered in gravel Maybe I could thin out the fish population in the tank with dragonfly larvae. Fun to watch and I would have a biological model for fly tying! This could become an interesting thread! Thanks, David Buschhorn

Response:

Question:

Hey John Fereira!    My news server has been out for three days and I just noticed on the news.groups that a CFV has started for flytying. Has it been posted here on ROFF?    This is the time folks! You don’t have to discuss it any more, just vote. I’ve sent in my vote and received a reply that it has been counted. Keep your feet dry, — lukn4fish Bob San Jose, Ca

Response:

Hey John Fereira!   My news server has been out for three days and I just noticed on the news.groups that a CFV has started for flytying. Has it been posted here on ROFF?   This is the time folks! You don’t have to discuss it any more, just vote. I’ve sent in my vote and received a reply that it has been counted. Keep your feet dry,

Yes, it was posted here, in rec.outdoors.fishing, and in news.groups. I vote YES for rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying or I vote NO for rec.outdoors.fishing.fly.tying as the only line in the text of the message. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

Response:

Question:

The weather in Colorado this spring has been cold with snow in the high country. Ski resorts have re-open the week of May 22nd. What effect will this have on the major fly fishing streams and rivers this year? Where does one go when the run offs occur and have the begun? When will the peak this year and when can we accept to return to our farovite rivers and streams? Thanks in advance for the Infor.

Response:

  The weather in Colorado this spring has been cold with snow in the high   country.   Ski resorts have re-open the week of May 22nd.     What effect will this have on the major fly fishing streams and rivers   this year?     Where does one go when the run offs occur and have the begun?     When will the peak this year and when can we accept to return to our   farovite rivers and streams?     Thanks in advance for the Infor. The run-off is affecting just about every river here and it appears that it

is going to last into the next century. Even the tailwater dams are cranked open in anticipation. I suggest you dust off the ol’ float tube and hit the lakes for a while. Denver, Colorado        ftp.rmii.com/pub2/gwgodden      

Response:

The weather in Colorado this spring has been cold with snow in the high country. Ski resorts have re-open the week of May 22nd. What effect will this have on the major fly fishing streams and rivers this year? Where does one go when the run offs occur and have the begun? When will the peak this year and when can we accept to return to our farovite rivers and streams? Thanks in advance for the Infor.

I live on the Lake Fork of the Gunnison and keep daily tabs on runoff. The main rivers are high and dirty now, and there is more snow above 11,000 feet in the San Juans than I have ever seen at this time of year. Normally runoff in the Gunnison basin peaks about June 17, but it all depends on how hot it gets and how quickly it gets hot. Many rivers may clear by July 1, but could still be very high until mid-to-late July this year. Runoff can be beaten, though, if you are willing to fish smaller feeder streams, especially those at higher elevations and those with south facing drainage basins. Beaver ponds are another option at this time of year, and can have some good trout, even some that will rise to dries. Lyndon Lampert

Response:

Question:

writes: :   Hi I am looking for some information on fly fishing. I : want to know about how much it would cost me to get started. Also : I would like to know any other info to help me gewt started. : Many thanks : Robert

Well Robert, I began fly fishing on a rod made by my friends dad, it was a 7 12 four weight…..a month later I got a L.L. Bean 8 foot 5 weight for 295.00 that includes the reel…..its a great rod and I consider it a very good price for the fun and fish i’ve gotton from it so far…..THey will send you a catalog if you call…..they also have fly kits that will start you out for about 25 dollars……good luck…. Matt, age 16

Response:

   Hi I am looking for some information on fly fishing. I want to know about how much it would cost me to get started. Also I would like to know any other info to help me gewt started. Many thanks Robert

Bob: From another Bob.  Find yourself a sports shop that at least carries flyfishing equipment.  Buy a "discovery" or "introductory" outfit that includes an 8′ to 9′ rod in a 5 or 6 weight.  See if your local adult education organization (or the shop you bought the outfit from) has any beginner flyfishing/casting classes, and go do it.   The outfit shouldn’t cost you much more than $100 to $150. Another good way to try it out is to find a FLYFISHING guide in your area and hire him/her for a day.  A little more expensive, but they can probably provide the equipment, give you some great instruction, and you would probably even catch some fish. Finally, a couple more sources to try are Fly Rod and Reel, American Angler, and Flyfishing magazines.  Also, you may already know about this, but you might want to post your inquiry on the newsgroup rec.outdoors.fishing.fly. Have fun, it’s a great sport. Bob Peters

Response:

        Hi I am looking for some information on fly fishing. I want to know about how much it would cost me to get started. Also I would like to know any other info to help me gewt started. Many thanks Robert

Response:

Path:

internex.net!news.sprintlink.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1
uu.net!news.inhouse.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com!
news Newsgroups:

rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,rec.outdoors.fishing.
saltwater,alt.fishing Organization: via CompuServe Information Service Lines: 9 Xref: internex.net rec.outdoors.fishing:12220

rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:13627 rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater:4273 alt.fishing:11732 Try http://www.aminews.com/ami

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Path: internex.net!news.sprintlink.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!in1 uu.net!news.inhouse.compuserve.com!news.production.compuserve.com! news Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing,rec.outdoors.fishing.fly,rec.outdoors.fishing. saltwater,alt.fishing Organization: via CompuServe Information Service Lines: 9 Xref: internex.net rec.outdoors.fishing:12220 rec.outdoors.fishing.fly:13627 rec.outdoors.fishing.saltwater:4273 alt.fishing:11732

   Hi, I operate a small Fly Shop here in Maine and would be happy    to help you out.  For info or tackle call 1-800-244-7744 ANYTIME – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try http://www.aminews.com/ami

Response:

:       Hi I am looking for some information on fly fishing. I : want to know about how much it would cost me to get started. Also : I would like to know any other info to help me gewt started. : Many thanks : Robert Don’t do what I did, and buy the $29.95 Fly-Fishing starter-kit from Shakespeare! What a mistake. I have yet to get a fly on/in the water with this set-up… The fly-line included with the kit was made in China and was wrapped up with a VERY gummy/sticky label. Even after cleaning at the line for an hour it was still gummy and wouldn’t slide through the guides, so I shopped around for some replacement line. $15 dollars (and much confusion about which type line to buy) later, I had that, but still couldn’t get the thing to cast at all, so it’s collecting dust in a corner of the basement. I did manage to succesfully do some flyfishing this past week though, for the first time in my life. I bought some clear bobbers, and used them with about 4 feet of 6lb leader and a fly on my spinning rod. I caught a bucket full of large bluegills, crappie, and bass. Some of the fish were hitting on the bobber, so maybe I should adapt a hook onto it for next time… Anyone else do the majority of their fishing from a seakayak? Cecil Williams

Response:

Question:

This subject is getting a lot of press with the identification of the disease in the Madison, so there is (finally) some information out there. The disease has been in Colorado for some time now and is getting worse. The culprit is almost certainly illegal stocking or (apparently in the case of Colorado) knowingly stocking with diseased fish.  There is evidence that the disease can be spread to other rivers via boots and other fishing equipment, but (at least according to Dick Vincent at the Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks Department) it is not spread by wildfowl. Brook trout and salmon are also affected. I suspect now that a river as important as the Madison has been affected, we will see a lot more about this and other threatening diseases.

Response:

I would be interested in seeing the Washington Post article and the article mentioned in December from the Bozeman Gazette.  The posts I have been reading here about Whirling disease have really been upsetting.  My fishing buddies and I are trying to figure out what the best course of action for us would be.  Certainly no good plans have come from the "experts" as of yet (this would seem to be especially true in Colorado). Why hasn’t there been much yet in the fly fishing ‘literature’?  I haven’t read a thing in FR&R or Flyfisherman.  It would seem that research into why Browns and other unaffected species are immune would be the way to get this disease out of fish populations.  Does anyone involved in Fisheries Management or Biology at Montana State or at CU know anything about any research into the molecular biology/pathogenesis of this disease?  Please post!

Response:

If this thing is protozoan and can potentially be spread by our wading boots, does anyone have any suggestions or know what we should be doing with our waders after fishing any of the potentially affected waters?  How long can the protozoa live out of water?  I often fish the Madison for a day or two, then go to the spring creeks in the Paradise Valley.  I would hate to be contributing to the spread of this disease into those waters, or any other for that matter!

Response:

:   What about cutthroats? From what I have heard–in both Montana : and Colorado (and perhaps the Truckee too)–the brown trout are OK! : Does anybody know anything about Whirling disease and cutthroats? The Washington Post article mentioned that cutts are susceptible to the disease. Rick — T. Rick Fletcher   –   http://www.chem.uidaho.edu/~fletcher Assistant professor of chemistry  |  That’s Idaho, not Iowa.    |  These University of Idaho               |  Upper Left Hand Corner.    |  opinions Moscow, ID 83844-2343             |  No, I don’t grow potatoes. |  are mine.  

Response:

as u have pointed out whirling disease has made its way inot the wild population and indeed this is bad news.  as i have had it described to me this disease effects the delicate bone structure in juvinelle fish so when frightened/starteled they swim in small fast concentric circles instead of going for cover.  in addition, i have also heard that it is usually the result of the close confines of hatcherys that spread it, as u may also have heard the state of colorado fish & game department is releasing hatchery fish with this disease into some of their blue ribbon water, for what reason god alone knows and god aint speakin on this subject.  anyway i hope that the local TU chapters get involed in this an can help Mr. Vincent out.  from all reports he is a pretty good guy and knows a thing or two about how to maintain a wild trout population.  any news on this unhappy event is most welcome

Response:

disease has been discovered in the wild rainbow populations of Montana’s upper Madison. None of us here knows anything more than that just yet. But it continues to look bad. The outfitters haven’t really caught on, because the spring/winter fishing is good at this very moment. But whirling disease, apparently, only effects the tiddlers. In a few more seasons, once the current crop of bigger rainbows has died off from old age, there may be no more little fish to replace them. I wish I knew more about what’s going on. I’ve heard that Whirling disease made its way into wild rainbow populations in Colorado some time ago. Who down there in Colorado knows something about this? Which Colorado river systems are effected? How long has this been going on, etc?  Is the Colorado problem stable in any way, or is it getting worse? —

Response:

: some time ago. Who down there in Colorado knows something about this? : Which Colorado river systems are effected? How long has this been RE: Whirling Disease I met with some guides here in the shop over Christmas and this was the issue at hand. It looks very grim and much worse then originally speculated.  The guides are accusing the Colorado DOW of a MAJOR cover up.  They have SCREWED up big time and since fishing is such a huge economical thing…noone will come straight.  The local guides are going to try to take matters into their own hands and we are in the process of recommending a wierd but hopefully effective idea to the DOW for the 96-98 regs…the idea is to close off feeder streams to all fishing during the rainbow spawn. The idea is to try to get some of these genetically farked up fish to produce (naturally) fish that are genetically immune to the disease.  It is a long shot, but better then no shot.   Apparently noone is talking but the rumour is that all year classes are missing in some of the major drainages (i.e. NO/0/nada/zip baby fishes) and that the spore (?) is present throughtout the state and that it originated in a hatchery in Utah. All colorado fishermen should pressure anybody and everybody they know for more information ans to support this closed rainbow spawning fishing season in the feeders… Tim Walker

Response:

RE: Whirling Disease Apparently noone is talking but the rumour is that all year classes are missing in some of the major drainages (i.e. NO/0/nada/zip baby fishes) and that the spore (?) is present throughtout the state and that it originated in a hatchery in Utah. Tim Walker

  What about cutthroats? From what I have heard–in both Montana and Colorado (and perhaps the Truckee too)–the brown trout are OK! Does anybody know anything about Whirling disease and cutthroats? —

Response:

I understand that there was an article in the Washington Post today (1/4) on the whirling disease in the Madison.  I have not seen it, but would like to get a copy if anyone has one.

Response:

:   What about cutthroats? From what I have heard–in both Montana : and Colorado (and perhaps the Truckee too)–the brown trout are OK! : Does anybody know anything about Whirling disease and cutthroats? My understanding is that the cutts aren’t affected, allthough I haven’t conducted too many fry surveys and the misinformation in general does scare me.   Damned hatcheries indeed.  If only the folkes could to see fit to spend their tax monies on stream improvements and accept a greatly reduced general catch limit while the wild stocks rebound… Population estimates for colorado are around 5 million by the year 2000.  The state is just too fragile for this many people.  No, I don’t begrudge folkes for wanting to live here. Nor do I have any answers.   It frightens me to the core. Tim Walker

Response:

: Hey, I may be stupid, but can anyone explain what Whirling disease is? It is a disease that affects the spine of rainbow trout fry that first showed up in the state hatcheries.  Now the dept of wildlife has introduced it into the waters and it is affecting the wild stock.   It is very, very serious and some think we are on the brink of a disaster of major proportions.  I really hope that some biologist in the know (Bob Golder…what’re you up to today) would really fill in the blanks. Tim Walker

Response:

Hey, I may be stupid, but can anyone explain what Whirling disease is? Paul

Whirling disease is caused by a protozoan parasite that invades the cartilage of the skull, gill arches and spine.  It affects only trout and salmon.  Rainbow trout are the most seriously affected, browns (which probably coevolved with the parasite in Europe) are somewhat, but not totally resistant. The parasite goes through a complex life cycle which involves spores which may persist in the bottom sediments for many years, hence it is here to stay in the Madison. It may make infected fish swim in a circle  (whirling) or die, but more frequently cause deformities or make the fish more susceptible to predation or environmental episodes. It was discovered in Colorado in the late ’80s, Utah in ‘91 and now in Montana. Utah initiated a strong program to try to eradicate it when it was first discovered.  Later findings showed it had been spread, perhaps intentionally, to other parts of the state.  Current efforts are directed to try to protect wild native cutthroat from the disease.  Montana has a good program and  has been trying to prevent it from coming into the state.

Response:

Hey, I may be stupid, but can anyone explain what Whirling disease is? Paul

Response:

Whirling disease…..not good.  Up to 90% of the rainbows have died.  I got this from a guy at Lakestream Fly Shop in Whitefish last week.  It doesn’t seem to be affecting the brown trout population that badly.  Yet…another distrubing note.  They are not sure how the disease is spreading.  I am going to ask a fishery pathologist i know, on what he knows what is going on.  I will post the info that evening.  I will try to do it on Monday. If anyone around here knows what is going on…he will.  Yet the info coming my way on the impact of the disease is NOT GOOD!.  Just pray I guess. Peter

Response:

Last night’s Bozeman Daily Chronicle ran the headline "Madison River Rainbows Diseased," or something like that. The story identified Whirling disease as the culprit, and quoted Montana Fish and Game Biologist Dick Vincent, who said upper Madison rainbow populations had plummeted from 3300 to 300 fish/mile in a single season. Brown trout, so far, seem unafected.    Whirling disease has traditionally been associated with hatchery fish in the past. How this disease has made its way into a wild population remains a mystery. But Dick Vincent did mention scattered reports of hatchery rainbows mysteriously appearing in the upper Madison in late 1980’s. What this means is anyone’s guess. Montana hasn’t stocked rainbows in the Madison for decades.    What happens next? There are rumors. But nothing definite yet. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a complete fishing closure on the upper Madison for a few years. It’s not clear that a slimy Elk Hair Caddis–heavily used Monday evening on the Madison–couldn’t transmit Whirling disease to Big Hole or Yellowstone rainbows on Tuesday morning. It would be a real tragedy if the lower Yellowstone’s (now) recovering native Cutthroat populations were to become effected (decimated?) too. This could be really bad news. —

Response:

Last night’s Bozeman Daily Chronicle ran the headline "Madison River Rainbows Diseased," or something like that. The story identified Whirling disease as the culprit, and quoted Montana Fish and Game Biologist Dick Vincent, who said upper Madison rainbow populations had plummeted from 3300 to 300 fish/mile in a single season. Brown trout, so far, seem unafected. <snip   What happens next? There are rumors. But nothing definite yet. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a complete fishing closure on the upper Madison for a few years. It’s not clear that a slimy Elk <snip again

There are a lot of rumors bouncing around Bozeman today. The main one that I have heard is that FW&P will attempt a total rainbow kill on the Upper Madison, although how they would do this without taking out the browns is anyone’s guess.  Suggestions that I have heard include changing the regs to require people fishing to kill all rainbows and release all browns.  I can’t believe that this would get all of the rainbows – we just don’t fish that well. Another problem will be what to do if they can take out the rainbows completely.  Options would presumably include (a) leaving this stretch of river as a trophy wild brown river, (b) restocking the rainbows from hatchery fish, which would really degrade the fishery for several years, and (c) relocating wild rainbows from other parts of the river. On the less bad news side, it is my understanding that this is limited to the river between Quake lake and Ennis dam.  I never thought that I would be grateful for that stupid dam.  I.e., unless they lose it there is no immediate danger of this getting into the lower Madison and hence into the Missouri, Gallatin, etc.  At the other end, the Madison in Yellowstone National Park, and hence the Gibbon and Firehole, are not currently in danger. Unfortunately I haven’t heard that this will kill off the whitefish. The stretch of river affected by this disease is often claimed to be the best piece of wild trout water in the continental US, so this is already a disaster, and if the disease does get into the browns as well it will probably be 10-20 years before they can fully restore the fishery.  Not a good Christmas present for the people who read this group. Denbigh http://www.cs.montana.edu/~starkey http://www.cs.montana.edu/~starkey/fishing.html 406-994-4780 (work), 406-586-7614 (home)

Response:

Question:

I have been fly fishing for about 14 years now and unfortunately live in southern California.  When I can’t get to the Eastern Sierra, Idaho or Montana I’m forced to try our sometimes barrren offerings here.   My question is this …… without revealing too much, does anyone out there have any experience on waters other than the W.F San Gabriel, Deep Creek, Bear Creek, E.F San Gabriel etc….. If so please reply to: Thanks

Response:

I have been fly fishing for about 14 years now and unfortunately live in southern California.  When I can’t get to the Eastern Sierra, Idaho or Montana I’m forced to try our sometimes barrren offerings here.   My question is this …… without revealing too much, does anyone out there have any experience on waters other than the W.F San Gabriel, Deep Creek, Bear Creek, E.F San Gabriel etc….. If so please reply to: Thanks

How about Sespe Creek? For details email me at: Darryl

Response:

writes: To: Motorcty Have fished in King Harbor for Bonita and Mackeral. Very exciting, hard fighting fish. Rent skiff from Rocky Harbor Marina/Redondo Beach. They sell flies etc. Costs about $20.00 per half day. You need a 7/8/9 rod with sinking line like Teeny 200. Guys at Marriotts Fly Shop in L.A. know all about this.Good Luck. AK100.aol.com

Response: