Question:

Sounds terrific but I do have a question. If i can’t see very well anyway do these still need to be tied in the dark. I’ll wait for your answer. Thanks Larry

Absolutely!  That is why the flys appear way out of proportion to a seasoned fly tier.  The wings are too long to aid in locating the hook eye via touch.  The tail is too long to let you know which end has the eye.  The clump of feathers is tied around the hook to allow the fly to float no matter which way it lands on the water.  It often floats side- ways anyway. — Wayne To Fish is Human….To Release Divine!

Response:

Sounds terrific but I do have a question. If i can’t see very well anyway do these still need to be tied in the dark. I’ll wait for your answer. Meanwhile I am working to develop a fly that will penetrate up to 1 inch of ice to make the wait for spring a bit better. I am making progress but tend to snap the top 7 or 8 inches from my rods. Perhaps a smaller rod is the answer, I will keep you posted. Thanks Larry

A fourteen foot beachcaster, using a slightly modified pendulum cast, ( more or less straight up !! ), a  steel crash helmet and heavy kevlar shoulder padding, coupled with titanium reinforced body armour, ( in case "straight up" is taken too literally ),coupled with an eight ounce reversed squid pirk, with the tangs removed. Should do the trick. While practising at the week-end ( only with a six ounce reverse torpedo lead ), a guy from the local club, who reckoned he was a fair caster, asked to try my gear, as he had the pedulum cast which I was demonstrating to a few blokes from the local club, off to a fine art. Always willing to learn, I handed him my gear, warned him that the reel had neither magnetic nor air brakes, and that the bearings were oiled and adjusted for maximum free running, I handed him my gear, and moved to one side. One or two of the spectators, obviously acquainted with the talents of our worthy, made a few comments to the effect of "Give it some welly Dave", "Go on Dave, show him how its done", and similar encouraging remarks. Spurred on by this, and after a few moments of silent concentration, Dave reached out with the rod, rose to his full height, and began to whirl at considerable speed. Pirouetting with the consummate grace of a world class ballet dancer, rising up on his toes, and simultaneously heaving with the sheer brute force of a professional hammer thrower, issuing a long and ululating grunt which would have shamed a raging gorrila into immediate submission,  he blasted off a cast which would surely have been close to a world record, if only it had gone forwards, carrying the line with it.  However, due to a slight miscalculation on his part ( The technical term for this particular miscalculation,  is apparently, "F&%

Question:

George: <<Doug Knight was just given a laboratory test and demonstration of CDC Emergers (his choice of flies to test)  in the film, without and WITH Gehrke’s Gink.  I cannot begin to express to all of you, LaCourse in particular and Mike Connor, how wrong  you both are regarding CDC tied flies and Gink.  I have pictures of his CDC Emergers on the bottom, lifeless and floatless without Gehrke’s Gink and the singular Dressed CDC GINK assisted CDC Emerger, the only fly ABLE TO float ON TOP of the water.

And how do we know they were truly CDC?  I have true CDC.  I use it on emerger patterns.  I tied up two and did the test with and without Gink.   Both flied floated as I expected them to.  But the Ginked fly did not, I repeat, DID NOT capture air bubbles, while the untreated fly DID.  That is the whole reason for usinging CDC, George.  CDC as a dry fly makes no sense because other materials make better more durable wings.  But you can not beat CDC as an ermerger pattern *if you want to capture air bubbles*.  CDC does that just fine because of its "bottle brush" barbuls.  Reread what Leeson and Schollmeyer say about it.  It is not a mystery, George. Gink or any other floatant *including preening oil* messes up the barbuls and makes the CDC feather *just an ordinary feather*.   And why would I go through the expense and bother of tying an emerger pattern that traps air when I could use marabou.  CDC captures air bubbles.  CDC treated with Gink or any floatant does not.  Period. Dave LaCourse

Response:

[filled the virtual circular file with plenty o' snippage] However!  REMEMBER THIS DAVID, there is nothing a CDC feather doesn’t do that GINKED, it will do better.

I’ve read this at least three times…Can’t understand it – nor why I’d want to remember it. I think it hurt my brain, though. Perhaps permanently… Think of it like this David.  A BARE HOOK with just two cdc feathers will float on still water, but so will a bare hook dressed only with Gink.

Now here was a bold statement that I could sink my thoughts into. And – BONUS! – it didn’t hurt my brain. Thus rising to the challenge, I ventured forth down the hall to the world reknown Daytripper Laboratory (second door on the right), intent on conducting a rigorous scientific test of the above theory. I vowed not to leave the lab until the required experiments were completed. After donning a pair of latex gloves to avoid any chance of contamination of the test and control subjects, I gathered ten brand new Mustad #8 3906B hooks together, mixed them well, then randomly (I even closed my eyes) separated them into two groups of five hooks. I then randomly selected one of the groups (using the precise "Eeeny Meeny Miney Moe" procedure) to become the test subject group, and then carefully slathered each hook from the selected group with GINK, from eye to point. The other group of five hooks became the Control Group. The GINK was obtained from the bottom of a bottle which had spontaneously expelled most of its contents all over my fishing vest – adding character (and a huge greasy stain) to said vest – the discovery of which led to "The Bottle Formerly Filled With GINK" to immediately experience the joy of flight. Alternating between members of the two groups, I then took each hook carefully in the grip of a pair of fine surgical steel hemostats (borrowed from the same fishing vest). I then set each hook (singly, in turn) on the surface film of a beaker of H2O chilled to precisely 62 degrees Fahrenheit (which we all know to be the exact temperature conducive to both dry fly fishing for salmonids and for wet wading). I then observed the results of the experiment: all five GINK-ladened hooks from the group of test subjects and all five naked unGINKed hooks from the control group all sank like so many small stones to the bottom of the beaker. Conclusion: GINK won’t keep a #8 3906B hook afloat on the surface of water, thus proving that the claim is not global in nature. Please send $1000 to me, George, to reimburse the extensive cost of conducting this experiment, and of operating the world reknown Daytripper Laboratory. I’ll put the funds to very good use, I promise (the world reknown Daytripper Laboratory could use a new exhaust fan, an upgraded toilet seat, and a new towel rack. Oh – and an actual working lock on the laboratory door – so that when I’m reading the newspaper with my morning coffee searching for a new theory to test, I won’t be interrupted…) /daytripper

Response:

Dave, and others, I have an agenda.. it has to do with pictures of people "greasing up" CDC feathers… sounds vaguely.. how can i say this.. erotic?  perhaps you can post to rec.outdoors.erotica.fishing.fly ?? please? Of course, I may be misreading your post… cheers from a perv, edwin – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bottom line, George:   Gink works for *most applications* but not on CDC.  I will take the word of Leeson and Schollmeyer and every fly shop owner I have ever talked to concerning "greasing" up a CDC long before I take your word on the subject.  You have an agenda; they do not. Dave LaCourse

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – CDC flies are deadly effective: they catch trout! When they do, they get slimed and they lose their floating properties. The following works for me: 1)  Squeeze rinse the fly in the stream to get rid of as much trout slime, dirt, etc. as possible. 2)  Dry the fly on shirt or handkerchief (some swine nicked my amadou). 3)  Lightly Gink the CDC. 4)  Wipe off surplus on trousers. 5)  Roll the fly around in the palm of hand in a small pile of powder fly dessicant (cheap stuff, nothing fancy) to remove almost all of the Gink and to unclog and ‘fluff up’ the CDC. It works for me. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

Hi Tony, actually just washing and drying it thoroughly without applying anything will work as well. I have been experimenting for quite a while with various things, and I have had the best results up to now using a product called Watershed applied some time before fishing ( night before at least ), and allowed to dry before fluffing up the fly again.  This seems to make it easier to wash and dry the fly after sliming it, but I am still not absolutely certain whether or not it affects the floating properties much at all. The product works quite well on normal dry flies,  as indeed does Gink ), and because it dries completely and invisibly without apparent residue, it at least does not affect the floating properties of CDC adversely as practically all other liquid or paste type floatants I have tried do. Anything which clogs the fibres will reduce the surface area of the feather, and hence the floating properties, as these depend directly on this factor. This is in fact the same reason why the slime is detrimental. To be perfectly fair and honest I have never tried Gink on CDC flies using your method, but then again I can see no particular advantage in doing so, as my CDC flies float perfectly well without any dressing at all up to the moment they first become slimed. I have tried Gink used in the normal way, just applying it and then casting the fly, this will clog and sink a brand new CDC fly pretty quick actually. You can try this quite easily, you will see it is true. Presumably the trick is to dry the fly very thoroughly again after applying the Gink, but then again, a clean dry CDC fly will float well anyway, so what is the point in adding anything to it at all, unless this makes the subsequent cleaning and  drying procedure easier or more effective, which Gink does not do ? ( And which I hoped Watershed might, which is why I tried it in the first place ). It is something of an involved  quandary I am afraid. To recap: A new dry CDC fly floats perfectly well until it becomes slimed. After thorough washing and drying it floats perfectly well again, although this takes time, and one usually ties on a new fly instead of attempting to resurrect the clogged one. ( At least I do ). A new dry CDC fly pre-treated with watershed and thoroughly dried and fluffed floats perfectly well until it becomes slimed. ( I get the impression that it is easier and quicker to de-slime and dry the fly here, subjective at the moment, but a possible advantage). ( On sub-surface CDC flies this definitely results in more air being trapped and staying trapped longer before the fly clogs, useful for some patterns and a possible advantage). A new dry CDC fly treated with practically any of the commonly used floatants in the conventional way loses most if not all of its floating capabilities, and in fact in some cases will sink like a stone, and not work again until completely cleaned of the substance and dried. Whereupon it is again as good as new. Your method of applying Gink after drying the fly first, and then drying it again also works you say, ( I have no reason to doubt it ) until the fly again becomes slimed. But as Gink does not allow the fly to be more easily deslimed and dried again or to float properly in a slimed state then what is the point of the Gink ? My only conclusion up to now is that you have found a way to use Gink which at least does not lessen the floating or air retaining properties of CDC appreciably, ( which as it happens also agrees with Georges findings ), but it does nothing to enhance them either.Certainly not on sub-surface flies. I would be interested in your comments, and a fair test of the above ideas if you are willing. Tight lines ! Mike Connor

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (We can post the photographs if desired.  I’d do it now if it wasn’t for the fact my digital camera to computer connection isn’t working tonight.) Doug Knight was just given a laboratory test and demonstration of CDC Emergers (his choice of flies to test)  in the film, without and WITH Gehrke’s Gink.  I cannot begin to express to all of you, LaCourse in particular and Mike Connor, how wrong  you both are regarding CDC tied flies and Gink.  I have pictures of his CDC Emergers on the bottom, lifeless and floatless without Gehrke’s Gink and the singular Dressed CDC GINK assisted CDC Emerger, the only fly ABLE TO float ON TOP of the water. Well . . . there is a secret on how to use GINK on C.D.C. Feathers because they are so flimsy and fine.  You fluff them up by  blowing on them after you GINK Them.   Properly Dressed with the World’s Best Dry Fly Dressing, CDC tied flies abilities to float are IMPROVED DRAMATICALLY, boys and girls. So don’t  buy the incorrect statement anymore that CDC tied feathers and/or flies are ruined because they’re dressed with Gehrke’s Gink.  I can see where it might be wrong to use other dry fly dressings, but in this case as compared to other Dry Fly Dressings and situations . . . Gehrke’s GINK is still KING.  Everyone SHOULD USE, Gehrke’s Gink Dry Fly Dressing on CDC tied flies.  In fact, ESPECIALLY if they’re tied with CDC feathers. What I like about CDC feathers is when they’re used for wings.  They’re less likely to spin a fine tippet into a snarled mess. "Gink Keeps It Up"  All Around The World Gink IS King. Please tell us the pattern and what color foam was used for the body   Harry

No foam.  No Cheating.  Fly tied by Harry Mason & CDC Caddis Emerger.  Look for the picture somewhere on this thread.  Good question Harry. Doug Knight Call me at 509-243-5500 For More Info.

Response:

PURE FACT!  Pure scientific fact.  Proven in the lab here. I picture an old coffee mug filled with water

Just Blue’s water bowl. I mean clean. Check the picture on this thread. I was glad to be a part of the test. Blue is a great dog. Doug Knight Hairy Trout

Response:

 ____  Some valid points Mike.  Please understand me when I say the secret is to go ahead and apply GINK but then blow on the fly to refluff and separate the barbles.  The barbles are now waterproofed whereas they are not, any other way. There is not enough natural CDC oils in these feathers to fight also the weights of dry flies.  Enter now, GINK.  Gink Keeps It Up. Thanks for listening.  Remember to blow to fluff first. George

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George: <<Doug Knight was just given a laboratory test and demonstration of CDC Emergers (his choice of flies to test)  in the film, without and WITH Gehrke’s Gink.  I cannot begin to express to all of you, LaCourse in particular and Mike Connor, how wrong  you both are regarding CDC tied flies and Gink.  I have pictures of his CDC Emergers on the bottom, lifeless and floatless without Gehrke’s Gink and the singular Dressed CDC GINK assisted CDC Emerger, the only fly ABLE TO float ON TOP of the water. And how do we know they were truly CDC?  I have true CDC.  I use it on emerger patterns.  I tied up two and did the test with and without Gink.   Both flied floated as I expected them to.  But the Ginked fly did not, I repeat, DID NOT capture air bubbles, while the untreated fly DID.  That is the whole reason for usinging CDC, George.  CDC as a dry fly makes no sense because other materials make better more durable wings.  But you can not beat CDC as an ermerger pattern *if you want to capture air bubbles*.  CDC does that just fine because of its "bottle brush" barbuls.  Reread what Leeson and Schollmeyer say about it.  It is not a mystery, George. Gink or any other floatant *including preening oil* messes up the barbuls and makes the CDC feather *just an ordinary feather*. And why would I go through the expense and bother of tying an emerger pattern that traps air when I could use marabou.  CDC captures air bubbles.  CDC treated with Gink or any floatant does not.  Period. Dave LaCourse

Good question Dave. Since the same Harry Mason tied the flies and also sold an ounce to me, I know that these are the real McCoy’s. Plucked right off the Duck’s Ass. The origanal question as I recall was if GINK would float a CDC fly. Yes, it does. And you proved that yourself. Trapped air on a submerged CDC emerger is another matter. AIR BUBBLES! Gasp! Ole Goerge might think these to be mini "beadheads". I’ll use whatever I can to get fish. Doug Knight On the Snake River under a towering thunderhead tonight!

Response:

CDC flies are deadly effective: they catch trout! When they do, they get slimed and they lose their floating properties.

DRY FLY GRADING SYSTEM: The following works for me: 1)  Squeeze rinse the fly in the stream to get rid of as much trout slime, dirt, etc. as possible.

 _______  You get a Gold Star By your Name. 2)  Dry the fly on shirt or handkerchief (some swine nicked my amadou).

3)  Lightly Gink the CDC.

4)  Wipe off surplus on trousers.

own floatation abilities! 5)  Roll the fly around in the palm of hand in a small pile of powder fly dessicant (cheap stuff, nothing fancy) to remove almost all of the Gink and to unclog and ‘fluff up’ the CDC.

It works for me. Tight Lines, Tony Deacon

______  Nice post Tony.   Tight lines — Mr. G. "All’s Fair With Fur or CDC Feathers"  gg http://www.gink.com

Question:

Hi I am getting into bamboo rod making is there anybody out there that is selling planing forms? Thanks Dave

Response:

Dave,         Try this link.   http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/5262/forms.htm         Scott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I am getting into bamboo rod making is there anybody out there that is selling planing forms? Thanks Dave

Response:

www.goldenwitch.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave,         Try this link. http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Coffeehouse/5262/forms.htm         Scott Hi I am getting into bamboo rod making is there anybody out there that is selling planing forms? Thanks Dave

Response:

O.K. I want to build a cane rod so I need to get some planing forms.  I have found metal forms for sale from $300 to $900 and I have read plans on how to make hardwood forms. I don’t mind spending the money for metal forms if they are worth it, and I don’t mind making hardwood forms if I have too, but I’d like to know what others have found before I make a decision.  What’s the best way to go? BTW, does anyone sell pre-built hardwood forms?

Response:

writes: I don’t mind spending the money for metal forms if they are worth it, and I don’t mind making hardwood forms if I have too, but I’d like to know what others have found before I make a decision.  What’s the best way to go?

Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

Response:

    As you have found there is a broad range ($wise) in available planing forms. An overview would be this – the entry level forms are within .0015" accuracy – which for the beginer is as close as most will work – the top end forms as as  accurate as they come .0005".     The decision is a personal one – the entry level forms can be final tuned (about 3 hours of filing) to be as accurate as the high end ones. If interested in the details please e-mail me off the list – the best address properly.     FYI – if you aren’t aware of it there is a e-mail repeater especailly for bamboo rodmaking – the rodmakers list – you can find information of how to subscribe to the list at home1.gte.net/jfoster/ .     Additionally there are several get togethers these days for the rodmaker or would be rodmakers (beginners are always welcome) – excellent information is exchanged and they are very social – the one I’m most familiar with is the one in Grayrock (aka Grayling, MI) – officially the dates this year are June 25, 26 – unofficially it starts June 19 (  permission slip form the spouse required) – the Grayrock group might best be describes as a friendly group that hangs out on the tailgate of a pickup truck – having a good time – sharing the craft of rodmaking – and yet raised close to $30,000 at the now world famous TTBBBQ. A combination of rod makers – fly fishing fourm folks (aka Single Malt Drinking Team) – and others locals that let their hair down a bit with activities such as the Sporting Flies Bribery Contest – The Makers Rod – Body Hair Auction – Fisherman Toss – and other assorted events. It’s About Fishin’ Not Fashion Another Wayne

Response:

Question:

  Check in with North Country Anglers flyshop in N. Conway for conditions and great local flies.   The flyrod you mentioned is perfect for the Saco.  There will be clouds of black flies, but also some nice hatches.  Again, ask at the flyshop for what is hatching.  There’s also a bunch of other nice rivers in the area, the flyshop folks will tell you about them too. Have fun. Russ Gelinas

Response:

Can anyone give me some info about the saco river and the fishing around the North Conway area? Im a keen trout fisherman (fly) from London UK and will be staying in North Conway in late June. I currently use a 10ft #5 Sage RPL+ – will this do? what sort of trout are there? what sort of hatches? can you fish the nymph? is there any other small lakes / rivers around that area? Please help if you can Thanks

Response:

Question:

it is not uncommon for trout to jump out of  the water for food.  I once wrapped a fly around a branch and it was swinging about 4" above the water.  I was about to wade over to the fly when a rainbow jumped up and neatly hooked himself. — Remove NOSPAM to send E-mail Ernie Harrison – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – As the flies neared the water, small rainbows would invariably leap out of the water and grab the fly while it was still a few inches in the air.  We hooked quite a few and eventually tired of "shooting the fish in the barrel."  Other people who were in our group had fished a lake that day and had a hard time believing the story.  

Response:

As the flies neared the water, small rainbows would invariably leap out of the water and grab the fly while it was still a few inches in the air.  We hooked quite a few and eventually tired of "shooting the fish in the barrel."  Other people who were in our group had fished a lake that day and had a hard time believing the story.

This past June, I fished Corbett Lake near Merritt, British Columbia.  The lake is stocked with two strains of rainbows.  One strain eats a lot of snails, and gets quite big, but fights without a lot of jumps.  The other strain, more insectivorous, is the wildest leaper, and strongest strain of trout I have ever caught.  At least a couple of times a day during my four day stay on the lake, I would witness trout, some up to 6-7 pounds leaping as much as THREE FEET out of the water to nail damsel flies.  One of these surface to air missles did its thing about five feet away from me while I was out in my float-tube.  Man do I ever wish I had a picture of that! Troy

Response:

it is not uncommon for trout to jump out of  the water for food.  I once wrapped a fly around a branch and it was swinging about 4" above the water.

Isn’t what Irish style dapping* is all about ? —      ~adj~

Response:

Re air borne takes! There is a well tried and tested technique for boat fishing in lochs/loughs here in Scotland/Ireland called dapping. Basically you use a very long fly rod , maybe 15 feet in length – (cheap telescopic rods are available for those who want to try it out with out a lot of cost) a floss type of line with a monofilament  leader. You use a very bushy dry "dapping" fly, or even a natural- a daddy long legs or even a grass hopper. As you drift downwind, you sit with your back to the wind and hold the rod up high so the fly touches the top of the waves and is blown up in a gust, and settles on the surface in wind lulls. You dont need to cast as such- takes are violent, often missed but on a breezy day can be very productive. I also have a friend whose father was lucky enough to own an island in a beautiful Lough ( Lough Erne in Co.. Fermanagh N Ireland). They had a mobile home on the island – the only structure there – and were out  boat fishing one summer dawn. The surface was like a mirror- but boiling with rising fish as far as the eye could see- but for 20 minutes they could not touch one, then the rise died.  Still they went back for a lovely breakfast on the 3 lb.. brownie who committed suicide – it jumped into the boat and perhaps through frustration they gave it the last rites and enjoyed their meal!  Gillaroo

Response:

Every Fall I am able to watch the AIM-9 Ballet on the Mccloud in Northern California at Ash Camp.         Harv

Response:

That’s a pretty good description of dapping. The only other thing I would add is that it works even better if you use two flies. The flies have to be big (Bivisibles will do – we call them Loch Ordies) and you connect the point fly to the second fly with about 3-4 feet of heavyish tippet. The point fly isn’t dressed and so tends to stay subsurface. The second fly is treated with floatant and tied directly to the end of the leader. The trouble with dapping is that you need a good wind, and with only one fly it tends to spend most of its time about six feet up (where not even a rocket-propelled trout can get it). With an anchor fly, the floating fly still jumps about, but stays near enough the water, and with good luck, it will confine itself to skating on the surface. On a good day, dapping can be terrifically exciting – you have to remember not to strike until the fish has gone down. On a bad day, watching paint dry is more fun. If you ever try it, make sure you have a good steady wind. You can take salmon on the dap, and probably steelhead too, I would think. The real old timers use two live mayfly on the hook, but this needs real expertise. Andrew Associate Editor, Waterlog Magazine http://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Re air borne takes! There is a well tried and tested technique for boat fishing in lochs/loughs here in Scotland/Ireland called dapping. Basically you use a very long fly rod , maybe 15 feet in length – (cheap telescopic rods are available for those who want to try it out with out a lot of cost) a floss type of line with a monofilament  leader. You use a very bushy dry "dapping" fly, or even a natural- a daddy long legs or even a grass hopper. As you drift downwind, you sit with your back to the wind and hold the rod up high so the fly touches the top of the waves and is blown up in a gust, and settles on the surface in wind lulls. You dont need to cast as such- takes are violent, often missed but on a breezy day can be very productive.

snip – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gillaroo

Response:

The real old timers use two live mayfly on the hook, but this needs real expertise. Andrew

Of course you can also dap with Daddy-long-legs (Crane flies). I was out dapping an artificial on Loch St. John’s, Caithness, during a good fall of the naturals and getting no offers. I added the natural to my detatched body artificial, and a brownie managed to remove that without me feeling any contact. How do the DO that? Got a few later when the breeze got up a bit tho. Pete Marrow   work:  http://www.gsrg.nmh.ac.uk/   play:  http://www.gorp.com/gorp/activity/scottish_ff_faq.htm

Response:

maybe it fell off?

Response:

I was getting my usual beating by the fussy trout of the East Branch of the Croton (Westchester county NY) during a mixed midge/BWO hatch last week when I noticed the strangest thing: the fish were keying, not on emergers or cripples or even just-hatched duns–the usual suspects–but on low-flying adults that had finally gotten airborne. I watched two good-sized trouts eyeball these dipping, skipping flies and nail them mid-air–anywhere between 1/2 to 2 inches off the surface of the water…and this with plenty of bugs stuck in the film or on their way up. Anyone else see this surface-to-air behavior before (not counting chasing after Caddis pupae where it’s the momentum of the chase that carries the trout out of the water)? If so, what presentation do you suggest to keep a BWO up in the air in front of the fish’s feeding zone?

Response:

Last summer, I was standing on the shore of a lake north of Sudbury, Ontario watching rising brookies and clouds of tricos backlit by the setting sun.  Occasionally I would see a fair sized brookie jump clear of the water.  I could not understand why on earth a 12-14" brookie would jump for a size 24 trico.  Then I saw the object of their desires.  Huge dragonflies were crusing the trico hatch, picking them off.  As one flew a bit too low, a brookie jumped clear of the water after it, just missing it. While some were content to sip tricos, others were clearly after bigger game. On the Grand River, I had a small brown nearly land in my lap.  I think it was chasing emerging green drakes.  It made one jump for a rising dun about five feet from me, fell back into the water and immediately took off after another right at my feet, jumping directly at me.  I literally looked right down its throat.  I could only imagine it giving the fishy equivalent of "Oh shit!" when it saw me. It certainly didn’t hang around long! Peter

Response:

I was getting my usual beating by the fussy trout of the East Branch of the Croton (Westchester county NY) during a mixed midge/BWO hatch last week when I noticed the strangest thing: the fish were keying, not on emergers or cripples or even just-hatched duns–the usual suspects–but on low-flying adults that had finally gotten airborne…. Anyone else see this surface-to-air behavior before….

Stephen         Yeah, on  a mid-Wisconsin stream once when the big white flies we get here that I at least imitate with "White Millers" were bouncing around. (I could go look up the scientific name of the bug but am too lazy. They are something like "Euphoren Leukons.") I too found no good way. Tried siliconing up a few to the max and then skating them very fast and if I recall got a few, but I certainly did not feel I had cracked the puzzle. God knows why they were doing it, there were enough emergers on the surface. Maybe they were just like well-fed cats that won’t go near anymore static food but if a tidbit dances by they just can’t resist. Reminded me of one of Robert Traver’s stories in one of his books about two buddies of his who made a haul of trout by one on either bank of a stream and then stringing a line above the water from which they dangled a fly. That sounded like crap to me then, and still does, but, like you, I have now seen that the underlying phenomenon is real. Cheers, TB

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Last September I packed into the John Muir Wilderness.  Two of us fished a small stream (you could step across it in most places) at about the 9,500′ elevation.  We found a few pools about the size of a large bathtub.  The pools were surrounded by brush and we had to lean over and dangle our dry flies over the water.  As the flies neared the water, small rainbows would invariably leap out of the water and grab the fly while it was still a few inches in the air.  We hooked quite a few and eventually tired of "shooting the fish in the barrel."  Other people who were in our group had fished a lake that day and had a hard time believing the story.  I’d put my money on Traver’s story.

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during a mixed midge/BWO hatch last week when I noticed the strangest thing: the fish were keying, not on emergers or cripples or even just-hatched duns–the usual suspects–but on low-flying adults that had finally gotten airborne. Anyone else see this surface-to-air behavior before (not counting chasing after Caddis pupae where it’s the momentum of the chase that carries the trout out of the water)?

Yes, on a few occasions I have had fish come out of the water to take a fly before the fly had touched down. Usually in high-mountain streams where the seasons are short and feeding is heavy. Besides seeing trout do taildances to feed on caddis hatches, I have seen trout come out of the water to take large adult stoneflies. If so, what presentation do you suggest to keep a BWO up in the air in front of the fish’s feeding zone?

The only times I have had fish come up to a suspended fly (compared to one that was still falling to the surface) were in very windy conditions. Getting the fly to hang over the water in a 30 mph wind was no problem. I just could not get the damn thing *down* to the fish as it danced across the surface of the water chasing my fly! It was fun to watch, though! Aside from suspending fly and line in strong winds (perhaps carry an enormous fan like the kind used in film studios?) the only thing that might work would be to use a *very* stiff, wire-reinforced line so you can lower the fly to the fish when it comes up for it. Not sure how one would spool that, though… Good luck. I’ve been pondering this same dilemma a long time myself, and haven’t really found a solution. In fact, having been met with howling derisive laughter at what was apparently taken as a feeble attempt at lying whenever I mentioned this, I haven’t even admitted to it in a good while. Cheers, Ken Clark Ft. Lupton, CO

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Just a note about this group first, enjoy reading it very much, seems very polite which is unusual compared to other groups, enjoyable to say the least. I have seen this before but was lucky to catch the 4lb brook trout that acted like a SAM. I had the boat anchored about 5 feet upstream from a large rock and the wind was blowing about 35 MPH. I was using a 15 foot leader and was letting the wind carry the leader and fly. Downstream from the rock was a glassy area that is common as you realize and the combination of the wind and leader lenght, I was able to hover the fly over and around the glassy area. It only took about 3 or 4 minutes for the fly that was hovering about 5 inches above the water to be spoted by the brookie, next thing I saw was this darn fish leaping from the middle of the glassy area and take the fly, surprised the hell out of me and my fishing buddy and it took awhile to land the fish as we were laughing ourselves silly. Just incase you were wondering where I got the 4lb brookie, 60 miles SE of GooseBay labrador, No-Name lake. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Anyone else see this surface-to-air behavior before (not counting chasing after Caddis pupae where it’s the momentum of the chase that carries the trout out of the water)? If so, what presentation do you suggest to keep a BWO up in the air in front of the fish’s feeding zone?

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I wrote this a few years ago… any comments would be appreciated;  I think you will enjoy it! THE REAL FLY FISHERMAN                          

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They are supposed to have legislation pending on that issue but as of right now, there are no restrictions.  They will try to dissuade you if you ask a park ranger or someone like that.  They will also give citations for not having a life preserver.  My friend received one. Curtis Fry:  Fry’s Utah Fly Fishing Page  http://www.et.byu.edu/~fryc

All anglers on the Green are required to wear life vests because they change the water levels frequently there, and people have gotten trapped midstream.   As for float-tubing the Green, you’d have to be pretty crazy.  Doug burton, who guides on the Green, tells me they rescue several upside-down float-tubers every season and also lose a few. —   The above opinions are of the author only, and are not endorsed by SET-BC.               Special Education Technology – British Columbia

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I used to live about an hour and a half from the Green and fished there regularly. do NOT float the Green in a tube!!! I have seen one accident and the body of another tuber that was not so lucky! This is a river, and as such, deserves more respect! Sean Clark

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 Going to Callaway Gardens 70 miles So. of Atlanta Ga. to fly fish in a float at end of October.  Bass is thje object.  What do you know?

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I didn’t know Callaway had fishing trips – I would like some info also.  

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(Allen Turner) writes: fish in a float at end of October.  Bass is thje object.  What do you know?

What is there to know besides it is somewhat expensive……. Seriously The Callaway Gardens resort has some lakes (10 is what sticks in my head but it is not important) which they have designated as guided flyfishing C&R only for Largemouth Bass and Breams. The lakes are only open periodically, they are maintained to keep out unwanted grasses and predators and from what I’ve seen and heard the Bass get very big. I have not personally done it as it is a little costly when I’m so close to Lake Lanier and the fact that I did not care for the guy who set it up, who has sent moved on. But several friends have done it and I have seen the pictures, no one I have talked to about it has been disappointed. If you can get a copy of the latest "Orvis News", I noticed it was mentioned in there. E-mail if I can help further.

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(Allen Turner) writes: fish in a float at end of October.  Bass is thje object.  What do you know? What is there to know besides it is somewhat expensive…….

I concur. I have a friend who spent four days there and it was as pricey as getting a guided float tour in a Mackenzie on the Hiwassee. HOWEVER, he caught bream as big as most average bass (1-2 lbs) and one 3lb. and 1 4-5lb  (He says You’ll have fun, I’m sure. –Chandler

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 I may be relocating to the Richmond, Virginia area soon and would appreciate any information ya’ll may have regarding FF Clubs / Organizations there.    This is an exciting possibility for me as I’ve never been east of my Texas Gulf coastline. I trust and hope the ethics & traditions of brother anglers are alive and well in the fine Eastern areas of the United States! Once again, any information is highly appreciated. Thanks Ya’ll. TEM

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The Virginia Capital Chapter of Trout Unlimited meets on the 4th tuesday of the month at 7:30 pm at the Central Fidelity Bank north of McRea Rd in Bon Air, VA.  It’s just off Huguenot Rd across from Stony Pt. Plaza.

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TEM If you like smallmouth fishing the James River is one of the best in the South and I’m sure you will find the ladies and gentlemen the same as where you came from. Welcome to the Southeast. Richard Warren Raleigh, NC

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Welcome to Virginia.  We are a Flyfishing Guide and Instruction Service company named….. Flyfishing Virginia, L.L.C.  We post a weekly (well almost) column entitled, "This Week Flyfishing Virginia" where we post the results of all of our guides for the past week.  What’s hot and what’s not.  Stay tuned.  Again, Welcome to a state where you can flyfish 12 months of the years.  Bob Crawshaw and Ron Bennett,  Flyfishing Virginia L.L.C.  804-467-6668

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I’ve never fished the San Juan but hear its productive for bigger fish.   Whats the truth, where can you stay, what are the conditions like around September? Do you need a boat or can you gain access to the better spots on foot? –

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says… I’ve never fished the San Juan but hear its productive for bigger fish.   Whats the truth, where can you stay, what are the conditions like around September? Do you need a boat or can you gain access to the better spots on foot? –

I am leaving tomorrow morning (8-15-95) to go to the San Juan for a few days.  I was originally trying for September but to no avail.  The water level should be at between 500-800 cfm and should make for some good fishing.  If you want, I will make a post when I return advising the conditions and where you might want to stay.  I understand there have been some recent changes their lately regarding hotels, restaurants, etc.  I’ll let you know what I find out. Just let me know.  I’ll do my best not to leave some fish that aren’t completely tired (yeah right)!! Tom Cavitt

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I’ve never fished the San Juan but hear its productive for bigger fish.   Whats the truth, where can you stay, what are the conditions like around September? Do you need a boat or can you gain access to the better spots on foot? –

Give Gary Willmart a call.  He’s President of Colorado Fishing Adventures, Inc. and operates a guiding business on the San Juan River and other rivers and lakes around Pagosa Springs, CO.  His phone is (719) 598-5787 and his address is Colorado Fishing Adventures, Inc., 6421 Pulpit Rock Dr., Colorado Springs, CO  80918. Tell him Dave Baker referred you.  He’s good and really enjoys guiding folks. Abe’s Motel and Fly Shop (owned by Abe Chavez and family) is probably the most popular place right on the river.  I’ve stayed there and it’s nice, they are helpful, and the prices are in the right range.  I don’t have their phone number but check dir. asst. in the Farmington, Aztec, Navajo Reservoir areas. You can also find places in Farmington, NM; Durango, CO; Pagosa Springs, CO; Chama, NM; etc.   Check a map. Sept. conditions are usually excellent and there are lots of big fish. In fact, you probably won’t get many under 16".  Weather’s good, too. Air warm, water cold – bring heavy socks for wading (see below). The upper river, in the first mile or so below the dam, is for wading only – no boats.  That’s what we do and where Gary takes clients. River is wide with lots of places to fish.  Lots of people but you can find good places open because there are so many fish around all over. They are hard to get, though, if you don’t know the river and it’s kind of unique.  So get a guide for at least half a day to show you how to begin, what to look for. I’ve never taken a boat trip but below the wade fishing only area, they allow drift boats.  If that is your interest, talk to Tim Chavez (Abe’s son) who operates the Born ‘N Raised guide service with boats. Pay attention to some unique regulations designed to protect the fishery:  catch & release some places, one fish over 20" other places and you gotta quit fishing when you kill one, barbless hooks, no fishing directly downstream of yourself or someone else (often called the San Juan Shuffle because fish will congregate and pick up food in the trail of debris kicked up by someone wading), etc. Have fun!

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I’ve heard that they bite drys a lot better in September, instead of the usual disco midges and San Jan worms that they ususally fish

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