Question:

"ci+" <c…@ciNukeSpam.com> wrote in news:Xns95583DE20A3D7ci@65.245.115.2: > not mentioning that some of hose were Carter ‘babies’. also ignoring > reasons why a repug or demcon might have rejected those weapons, such as > obsolescence  

Hey, the B1 was great in Afghanistan, we can pound the hell out people–as long as they have no fighter or missle defenses!

Response:

"Eerie Cabinets of Dr. Rodent" <a…@at.org> in news:Xns955840562E99Ffkjdlkvjcxoiuarepoij@68.6.19.6: >"ci+" <c…@ciNukeSpam.com> wrote in >news:Xns95583DE20A3D7ci@65.245.115.2: >> not mentioning that some of hose were Carter ‘babies’. also ignoring >> reasons why a repug or demcon might have rejected those weapons, such >> as obsolescence   > Hey, the B1 was great in Afghanistan, we can pound the hell out > people–as long as they have no fighter or missle defenses!

it must be cheaper to operate than a  b2. maybe the costs have been amortized or whatever. maybe it carries more tonnage than a b2? — If Tolkien didn’t want us to eat Hobbits, why did he make them of meat?

Response:

"ci+" <c…@ciNukeSpam.com> wrote in news:Xns95587B395BB97ci@65.245.115.2: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Eerie Cabinets of Dr. Rodent" <a…@at.org> in > news:Xns955840562E99Ffkjdlkvjcxoiuarepoij@68.6.19.6: >>"ci+" <c…@ciNukeSpam.com> wrote in >>news:Xns95583DE20A3D7ci@65.245.115.2: >>> not mentioning that some of hose were Carter ‘babies’. also ignoring >>> reasons why a repug or demcon might have rejected those weapons, such >>> as obsolescence   >> Hey, the B1 was great in Afghanistan, we can pound the hell out >> people–as long as they have no fighter or missle defenses! > it must be cheaper to operate than a  b2. maybe the costs have been > amortized or whatever. maybe it carries more tonnage than a b2?

It was made in California…which has a large number of representatives in Congress.  Other than that I can’t think of a reason why the USAF wanted a high-altitude bomber.  Vested interests & entrenched beauracrats would be my guess. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

"Eerie Cabinets of Dr. Rodent" <a…@at.org> wrote in message <news:Xns95582DA24AE22fkjdlkvjcxoiuarepoij@68.6.19.6>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Cutups and Cutthroats > By MAUREEN DOWD > Published: September 2, 2004 > I always enjoy hearing about how a teenage Dick Cheney stood off to the > side with buckets of water to put out Lynne’s flaming batons. > But there was an even better moment during Claire Shipman’s two-part "Good > Morning America" interview at the Wyoming ranch this week. Trying to > humanize Dr. No, ABC was let into the inner sanctum to watch Mr. Cheney > take his 4-year-old granddaughter on her first solo horsie ride and hear > how he’s teaching his granddaughters fly-fishing. > Advertisement > Ms. Shipman asked the vice president "his greatest guilty pleasure." > His wife quickly interjected that it was fishing. But we all know, of > course, it’s global domination. > It’s always amusing to watch Republicans try to get down. At convention > time, they stop bilking Joe Lunchbox to act like Joe Lunchbox.

how do you make hitler funny? h

Response:

"Eerie Cabinets of Dr. Rodent" <a…@at.org> in news:Xns95582DA24AE22fkjdlkvjcxoiuarepoij@68.6.19.6: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Cutups and Cutthroats > By MAUREEN DOWD > Published: September 2, 2004 > I always enjoy hearing about how a teenage Dick Cheney stood off to > the side with buckets of water to put out Lynne’s flaming batons. > But there was an even better moment during Claire Shipman’s two-part > "Good Morning America" interview at the Wyoming ranch this week. > Trying to humanize Dr. No, ABC was let into the inner sanctum to watch > Mr. Cheney take his 4-year-old granddaughter on her first solo horsie > ride and hear how he’s teaching his granddaughters fly-fishing. > Advertisement > Ms. Shipman asked the vice president "his greatest guilty pleasure." > His wife quickly interjected that it was fishing. But we all know, of > course, it’s global domination. > It’s always amusing to watch Republicans try to get down. At > convention time, they stop bilking Joe Lunchbox to act like Joe > Lunchbox. > How awkward in Columbus, when W., hanging with Jack Nicklaus, noted > that his grandfather was born there, so they should "send a homeboy > back to Washington, D.C." Do they know a homeboy from a Lawn-Boy? > How you livin’, dawg? > And speaking of dawgs, whuddup with that video of Barney debating that > French poodle Fifi Kerry about taxes? By the time the twins finished > their White House Valley Girl routine, and Karl Rove and Karen Hughes > went all giddy in the sendup, the convention’s arc was clear. > Highly scripted screwball moments designed to soothe fears that the > Bushies are bullies alternate with high-octane, turbo moments designed > to stir up fears that we won’t be safe without the Bush bullies. > Unlike the arrogant Boston Kerry strategists, who focus-grouped and > dial-a- metered their convention to death, scrubbing most of the > direct attacks on President Bush, the arrogant Austin Bush strategists > have encouraged their non-girlie-men speakers to put the pedal to the > metal and flatten the poor Democrat who is windsurfing through his > free fall. > Despite the fact that the economy is cratering, Iraq is teetering,

those 2 seem exaggerated . > Afghanistan is reverting to warlords,

is it? i think it’s had setbacks, and their citizens suffer typical human inflexibilty… guaranteeing slow social progress…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Dick Cheney is glowering at the > world, the war on terror has created more acts of terror, Ahmad > Chalabi is an accused spy for Iran and the Pentagon has an accused spy > for Israel, Republicans felt so good about themselves that when Arnold > Schwarzenegger said he was inspired to become a Republican by Richard > Nixon, they exploded. When Tricky Dick is a hot applause line, they’re > feeling cocky. > Republicans are political killers. They are confident that Americans, > in a 9/11 world, are going to be more drawn to political killers who > have made some "miscalculations" on Iraq, as W. put it, than with a > shaggy-haired Vietnam War protester whom Bush 41 compares to Hanoi > Jane. >"I still have great difficulty with his coming back and making those > statements before the Congress and throwing medals away," the > president’s father told Don Imus yesterday. > Republicans know that plunging ahead with a course of action, even if > it becomes obvious it’s wrong, is an easier political sell than > flip-flopping, even if it’s right.

funny how foxnews dittohead hotheads don’t even realize that the repugs are sinking in their own quicksand… all on their own. no one is really opposing them. > When the president slipped, admitting that the war on terror is > unwinnable – perhaps recognizing that terror’s a tactic, not an enemy > – he had to be saved later by Laura Bush, who fixed his stumble into > nuance. Then Mr. Kerry made the mistake of responding in Bush > black-and-white, calling the war on terror winnable.

ha! kerry says almost nothing. bush out-bloopers kerry. which is worse? … >: > While Democrats whined about the meanies and their Swift boat attacks, > the G.O.P. juggernaut rolled on. > Zell Miller, playing Cotton Mather behind the cross-like lectern, made > Mr. Cheney seem rational, with a maniacal litany of weapons he said > Mr. Kerry had opposed that can destroy any mud hut in any third world > country: B-1 and B-2 bombers, F-14A Tomcats, F-15 Eagles, Patriot and > Trident missiles, and Aegis cruisers.

not mentioning that some of hose were Carter ‘babies’. also ignoring reasons why a repug or demcon might have rejected those weapons, such as obsolescence   > Just as the "third party" ad effort has been ferocious and misleading, > so have some of the attack speeches here. Dick Cheney stomped on John > Kerry the way he’s stomped on the world. In fact, he stomped on Mr. > Kerry for trying to get along with the world: "He talks about leading > ‘a more sensitive war on terror’ as though Al Qaeda will be impressed > with our softer side." It’s nice to know Mr. Cheney remembers Al > Qaeda.

 ’a more sensitive war on terror’ i’ve hearda bout this only via insulting reactoins. just now googled, http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg200408061120.asp whihc is amazingly polite ciriticism, rare among wrought-wingers. if this column is accurate regarding kerry’s intended meaning behind his phrase ‘more sensitive war on terror’, then kerry’s missing out on what his phrase *should* have meant. becoming frineds with citizens of countries whrer terrorirsts "breed" is probably the most effective "war   on terror"…. ’sensitive’ or ‘nonsensitive’. > As others raged, Mr. Bush flew to New York and went to an Italian > community center to eat pizza with Queens firemen. The homeboy was > having a ruthless, but effective, week.

did they have an orgies? why do repugs have all the fun! i must be too sensitive. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8 &q=firemen+sex+Scandal++Fordham+%7C+Brooklyn%7C+york — A nude Gollum on your doorstep is burn baby, burn

Response:

Cutups and Cutthroats By MAUREEN DOWD Published: September 2, 2004 I always enjoy hearing about how a teenage Dick Cheney stood off to the side with buckets of water to put out Lynne’s flaming batons. But there was an even better moment during Claire Shipman’s two-part "Good Morning America" interview at the Wyoming ranch this week. Trying to humanize Dr. No, ABC was let into the inner sanctum to watch Mr. Cheney take his 4-year-old granddaughter on her first solo horsie ride and hear how he’s teaching his granddaughters fly-fishing. Advertisement Ms. Shipman asked the vice president "his greatest guilty pleasure." His wife quickly interjected that it was fishing. But we all know, of course, it’s global domination. It’s always amusing to watch Republicans try to get down. At convention time, they stop bilking Joe Lunchbox to act like Joe Lunchbox. How awkward in Columbus, when W., hanging with Jack Nicklaus, noted that his grandfather was born there, so they should "send a homeboy back to Washington, D.C." Do they know a homeboy from a Lawn-Boy? How you livin’, dawg? And speaking of dawgs, whuddup with that video of Barney debating that French poodle Fifi Kerry about taxes? By the time the twins finished their White House Valley Girl routine, and Karl Rove and Karen Hughes went all giddy in the sendup, the convention’s arc was clear. Highly scripted screwball moments designed to soothe fears that the Bushies are bullies alternate with high-octane, turbo moments designed to stir up fears that we won’t be safe without the Bush bullies. Unlike the arrogant Boston Kerry strategists, who focus-grouped and dial-a- metered their convention to death, scrubbing most of the direct attacks on President Bush, the arrogant Austin Bush strategists have encouraged their non-girlie-men speakers to put the pedal to the metal and flatten the poor Democrat who is windsurfing through his free fall. Despite the fact that the economy is cratering, Iraq is teetering, Afghanistan is reverting to warlords, Dick Cheney is glowering at the world, the war on terror has created more acts of terror, Ahmad Chalabi is an accused spy for Iran and the Pentagon has an accused spy for Israel, Republicans felt so good about themselves that when Arnold Schwarzenegger said he was inspired to become a Republican by Richard Nixon, they exploded. When Tricky Dick is a hot applause line, they’re feeling cocky. Republicans are political killers. They are confident that Americans, in a 9/11 world, are going to be more drawn to political killers who have made some "miscalculations" on Iraq, as W. put it, than with a shaggy-haired Vietnam War protester whom Bush 41 compares to Hanoi Jane. "I still have great difficulty with his coming back and making those statements before the Congress and throwing medals away," the president’s father told Don Imus yesterday. Republicans know that plunging ahead with a course of action, even if it becomes obvious it’s wrong, is an easier political sell than flip-flopping, even if it’s right. When the president slipped, admitting that the war on terror is unwinnable – perhaps recognizing that terror’s a tactic, not an enemy – he had to be saved later by Laura Bush, who fixed his stumble into nuance. Then Mr. Kerry made the mistake of responding in Bush black-and-white, calling the war on terror winnable. While Democrats whined about the meanies and their Swift boat attacks, the G.O.P. juggernaut rolled on. Zell Miller, playing Cotton Mather behind the cross-like lectern, made Mr. Cheney seem rational, with a maniacal litany of weapons he said Mr. Kerry had opposed that can destroy any mud hut in any third world country: B-1 and B-2 bombers, F-14A Tomcats, F-15 Eagles, Patriot and Trident missiles, and Aegis cruisers. Just as the "third party" ad effort has been ferocious and misleading, so have some of the attack speeches here. Dick Cheney stomped on John Kerry the way he’s stomped on the world. In fact, he stomped on Mr. Kerry for trying to get along with the world: "He talks about leading ‘a more sensitive war on terror’ as though Al Qaeda will be impressed with our softer side." It’s nice to know Mr. Cheney remembers Al Qaeda. As others raged, Mr. Bush flew to New York and went to an Italian community center to eat pizza with Queens firemen. The homeboy was having a ruthless, but effective, week.

Response:

Question:

I feel so….used…

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, I think Don might have had an ulterior motive for the question about emu feathers – he’s got them for sale on that www.canflyfish.com.au website! They’re not as nice as ostritch.     and not remotely as rare as mu feathers, which are located only in semi-baja california, and are extracted at great risk to the collector. yfitons wayno Any fly tyers out there tried Emu Feathers? Yep. Wolfgang anybody else?

Response:

They’re not as nice as ostritch.

Sure, a simple question simply answered, and right away somebody has to go technical!      :) Wolfgang who knows that’s it’s really a matter of how much ya got to cover.

Response:

Hey, I think Don might have had an ulterior motive for the question about emu feathers – he’s got them for sale on that www.canflyfish.com.au website!

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – They’re not as nice as ostritch.     and not remotely as rare as mu feathers, which are located only in semi-baja california, and are extracted at great risk to the collector. yfitons wayno Any fly tyers out there tried Emu Feathers? Yep. Wolfgang anybody else?

Response:

Any fly tyers out there tried Emu Feathers? — Don Cantrell Cantrell Fly Fishing http://www.canflyfish.com.au Hand crafted flies, and selected fly tying materials

Response:

Any fly tyers out there tried Emu Feathers?

Yep. Wolfgang anybody else?

Response:

They’re not as nice as ostritch.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any fly tyers out there tried Emu Feathers? Yep. Wolfgang anybody else?

Response:

They’re not as nice as ostritch.

    and not remotely as rare as mu feathers, which are located only in semi-baja california, and are extracted at great risk to the collector. yfitons wayno – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any fly tyers out there tried Emu Feathers? Yep. Wolfgang anybody else?

Response:

Question:

This past few days I have been fishing the Sage SLT 5 weight 8′6. At 3 ounces it is a dream to cast and it turns over a dry fly so nicely. It performs consistently on long and short casts. but I think it’s the simple comfort it provides (smoothness, forgiveness, lightness) that impressed me. I also nymphed with it, but found it not as good as the Scott for lifting 3 AB shot, 2 #8 nymphs and a waterlogger strike indicator. The last rod I purchased was 4 years ago, a Scott SES. This is the first rod I have tried where I can really feel something worthy of calling a technological advance. I think it just made the Xmas list. — Gary M

Response:

Yes a very good rod with plenty or reserve power, smoothness and light weight in hand. Beats every other 5 weight i’ve ever cast.

Response:

Interesting comments. At our fishing clubs "Tackle Night" the Sage rep was there–so I had the opportunity to cast both the SLT and the XP. I found the SLT to be not to my liking at all. I use a Scott STS 905-4; aqnd again IMO, the SLT couldn’t hold a candle to the Scott., THe XP, however, was an absolute *dream* to cast. Since the Freshwater Scott STS series has been (stupidly IMO) discontinued–if I break the one I have I se an XP 905-4 in my future.   Dave M

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This past few days I have been fishing the Sage SLT 5 weight 8′6. At 3 ounces it is a dream to cast and it turns over a dry fly so nicely. It performs consistently on long and short casts. but I think it’s the simple comfort it provides (smoothness, forgiveness, lightness) that impressed me. I also nymphed with it, but found it not as good as the Scott for lifting 3 AB shot, 2 #8 nymphs and a waterlogger strike indicator. The last rod I purchased was 4 years ago, a Scott SES. This is the first rod I have tried where I can really feel something worthy of calling a technological advance. I think it just made the Xmas list. — Gary M

Response:

Question:

Dear Sir,  Do you realize they have Lithium and Prozac among many other medications that can help with this problem?  Please walk, err RUN to your closest Dr. of Psychiatry and get some help!  The twitch and voices in my head were removed, I’m sure your voices can be put down as well….:) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We would like anyone in ROFF who does not wish to receive posts to their  private e-mail address to notify us who they may be so we may make a log.   Everyone  is considered operational unless we are notified otherwise in the next ten days.  This is a legal notice.

Response:

Legal notice to George Gehrke: Go fuck yourself for 10 days and get back on your meds. Any emails from you to my address will be considered harassment, and will result in a shitstorm of incredible magnitude raining down upon you. Yours truly, Bob Smith

Response:

Two years ago, many on roff gave us the challenge and after two years, we were able to come up with a fly rod for under the challenged price.

You lying old sack of puss. Two years ago the challenge was to produce a production bamboo fly rod for $300. Not a fly rod KIT, a fly rod, a fishable upon receipt fly rod for $300. You didn’t do it. You failed. So now you think you can change what the challenge was to this new twist of producing a "roll your own" kit rod for $300 or less. You are such a fucking moron George. Do you really thing everybody here who’s had to live with your crap for the last two years will buy this new story from you. God, you are a miserable excuse for a human being. KMA, Bob

Response:

Dear Sir,  Do you realize they have Lithium and Prozac among many other medications that can help with this problem?  Please walk, err RUN to your closest Dr. of Psychiatry and get some help!  The twitch and voices in my head were removed, I’m sure your voices can be put down as well….:)

What, you would deprive Mr. Gehrke of ALL human intercourse?  For shame sir! Wolfgang

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <More lunacy snipped I would seriously advise anybody even considering posting an e-mail to this person, for whatever reason, to be extremely careful.  There is no telling where your address might end up. The person is obviously unbalanced, and in need of treatment. While this is unfortunate, it will not save anybody involved from the possibly unfortunate consequences, and probable misery involved. Yes, exactly.  Why anyone would feel obliged to respond to what is essentially a threat is beyond me.  Best to just let it be.  If you receive spam as a result of your participation on ROFF, simply deal with it as you would any other spam, by contacting the ISP of the offending party. JR

or check the law.  washington state has pretty strict laws on unsolicited e-mail… don’t know the specifics, but if he spammed me via e-mail i might just have to look into it. chris

Response:

You lousy son-of-a-bitch. Unsolicited commercial e-mail of any kind will result in a complaint(s) to your ISP(s). It’s bad enough that I have to wade through your SPAM on ROFF.  It’s illegal and against all of the Usenet rules I’m aware of, both formal and informal. Now you want to start sending me SPAM directly? As the high and mighty judge of all things ethical and moral, you should know better than to try and pull some stunt like this one. How about this: You make a one-time SPAM posting to alert all interested ROFFians (there might even be three or four of them) that if they would like to recieve e-mails from you that they can go to your website and subscribe to your mailing list.  I’m sure that the response would be overwhelming. Legal Notice.  Ha!  What you are contemplating is definitely illegal.  You should fire your attorney, George, and so should your ISP if they truly believe that an illegal post to a public newsgroup constitutes any sort of ‘legal notice’. George, you need help.  Mental help, legal help, and then some.  Perhaps an in-patient program might suit you better than the current out-patient one that continues to allow you to embarrass yourself in front of God and everybody. Here’s my legal notice, Mr. Gehrke, DO NOT EVER SEND ME ANY COMMERCIAL E-MAIL. Tom G constantly amazed

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We would like anyone in ROFF who does not wish to receive posts to their  private e-mail address to notify us who they may be so we may make a log.   Everyone  is considered operational unless we are notified otherwise in the next ten days.  This is a legal notice. Our company and web site is available for any technical questions regarding fly fishing.  Our chat site will become active under a new provider who honors any commercial comments as long as they are posted in chat sites and/or talk groups like Roff.  This new change will prevent problems regarding fly fishing content and values that are posted in the best interests of the industry and individuals world wide who ARE interested in certain commercial aspects regarding FLYFISHING Finally, THIS COMPUTER is a business computer and every man, woman or child in the world may post to this E-Mail Address which may include questions, comments, orders, and requests.  This  open door policy for free speech includes everyone.  Anyone wishing to talk with us over an extended period of time may do so on http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting 7 PM evenings. Bad manners, name calling, or bad language will not tolerated at: http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting up again after a long absence for operations and plant construction and expansion. Anyone who has any questions should email us.  The new e-mail site is Please make a note of it. Thank you, COMMENTS TO GEORGE AT THIS EMAIL ADDRESS FROM NOW ON.

Response:

We would like anyone in ROFF who does not wish to receive posts to their  private e-mail address to notify us who they may be so we may make a log.   Everyone  is considered operational unless we are notified otherwise in the next ten days.  This is a legal notice.

I can’t f*&%#$% belive this bullshit. You want me to email you to tell you I’m not interested in your new line. I’ve got a better idea I’ll save this tread and send it to your ISP along with a couple of responces to other threads and let them deside. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Our company and web site is available for any technical questions regarding fly fishing.  Our chat site will become active under a new provider who honors any commercial comments as long as they are posted in chat sites and/or talk groups like Roff.  This new change will prevent problems regarding fly fishing content and values that are posted in the best interests of the industry and individuals world wide who ARE interested in certain commercial aspects regarding FLYFISHING Finally, THIS COMPUTER is a business computer and every man, woman or child in the world may post to this E-Mail Address which may include questions, comments, orders, and requests.  This  open door policy for free speech includes everyone.  Anyone wishing to talk with us over an extended period of time may do so on http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting 7 PM evenings. Bad manners, name calling, or bad language will not tolerated at: http://www.gink.com/chat/index.html starting up again after a long absence for operations and plant construction and expansion. Anyone who has any questions should email us.  The new e-mail site is Please make a note of it. Thank you, COMMENTS TO GEORGE AT THIS EMAIL ADDRESS FROM NOW ON.

Response:

You lousy son-of-a-bitch. …

Amazing how the Village Idiot manages to self-destruct every so often. Quite convenient really, it’ll be awhile before anyone has to explain to indignant newbies why the old fool is so despised on ROFF. Hey Zimbo, here’s another classic for ginkstinks.org. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Georgie,    Send nothing.  This is official notice.    Send nothing. Chas – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George,    If I read this right, you’re claiming that you intend to SPAM us all in ten days if we don’t request that you not do that.  I believe that the insertion of "nospam" in my return address is sufficient notice that I don’t want any unsolicited email.  Others who use their address untampered are already accustomed to SPAM and probably want it.   If you do start a SPAM campaign, I’m sure you’ll incur further wrath here, and I suspect some might launch a SPAM campaign of their own.  I wouldn’t participate in that sort of thing. By no means will I be spamming you.  If I write you at your private e-mail address it will never have spam in it Charlie.  For you or anyone.  I don’t do that sort of thing.  I did it once by mistake and boy, never again.  What I’m saying is you’re welcome to always write me as long there is no spam involved either way, okay? No, I am not claiming that in ten days there will be spam from us.  Yet, what some regard as spam is not. Our new Provider says a special report as we posted which others think is spam in a news group, is NOT.  Neither do they consider commercial comments in normal conversation in chat sites spam.  Spam is when (as far as they are concerned) when one takes a mailing list and puts out a commercial message.   That IS spam and I don’t do that. Two years ago, many on roff gave us the challenge and after two years, we were able to come up with a fly rod for under the challenged price.  We have another surprise but I’m not going to post it here.  Roffians will  have to come to our chat site tommorow and ask about it. Anyhow Chuck, to get the kept promise to the thousands of people who have been waiting, our singular web site would not reach them all as once.  Since the problems and the huge sums spent by me are in part the responsibility and doings of ROFFIANS who egged and prodded and helped and who offered their undying support, the best way to communicate that singular report after two years of effort was to post it on ROFF where it belonged.  ROFF owes me at least THAT! So, what I’m asking you now is this.  We may write to each other e-mails but we agree not to spam.  I can handle that just fine.  I don’t spam on e-mails anyhow but then again, we answer a lot of questions regarding fly fishing and products with e-mail but only when requested. Fair enough Charlie? George Gehrke Get your FREE web-based e-mail and newsgroup access at:                http://MailAndNews.com Create a new mailbox, or access your existing IMAP4 or POP3 mailbox from anywhere with just a web browser.

Response:

<SNIP P.S.  Ordinarily, (until I know for sure) I would post this response to you via e-mail Charlie because it doesn’t belong here for public review.  To me, this should be a private conversation between two reasonable men.

No way you are ever going to have such a private conversation then?   What a pity. Perhaps you will be lucky and find a discussion partner as unreasonable as yourself?  A tall order of course, but doubtless you can do it. You can do everything, you said so yourself, so it must be true. ( Awed whispers from off) ( The Mighty and Unholy Gink bows low, seeming unsure of what he knows for sure, apparently hoping against hope that somebody will jump on his shoulders, and then slithers off on his own slime trail for another we). MC

Response:

Gehrke writes: Snipped redundant remarks:

(giant snip) George, you are insane.  You need help. Dave

Response:

Providers, such as the one we just hired, will allow a commercial post in news/talk groups …

Right up until the time they lose their first upstream feed. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

George, in which legal jurisdiction is your rather dubious looking legal notice enforceable? Certainly not mine, that’s for bloody sure.   You do realise this is a world-wide forum don’t you? If I see spam from you in ROFF again, I will (again) complain to your ISP. If I see spam from you in my mail box, I will complain to your ISP. Nice sales pitch from your new provider BTW, either they are a bigger bullshit artist than you are or they are severely deluded. Steve

Response:

<silliness snipped… All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy. All work and no play makes George a dull boy…

Response:

Our new Provider says a special report as we posted which others think is spam in a news group, is NOT.  Neither do they consider commercial comments in normal conversation in chat sites spam.  Spam is when (as far as they are concerned) when one takes a mailing list and puts out a commercial message.   That IS spam and I don’t do that.

Ask them if they know what a UDP is. — Charlie…

Response:

<nonsense snipped I would never stand on your shoulders, I am quite careful at avoiding crap on my shoes. Providers can not "allow" commercial posts to newsgroups, it does not lie within their power to do so. Try sending a few, and see what happens. Strange as it may seem, and in spite of your congenital idiocy, I assumed that you would have grasped this relatively simple concept by now.  How many providers have thrown you out?   Forgotten? Oh well, ask the next couple what they think, assuming you are a customer long enough of course. The day I need an explanation of Usenet ( or anything else for that matter), from you, I will shoot myself as being no longer a viable proposition for normal existence. I don

Question:

<< How about some large, extended body mayflies like the Green Paradrake tied by Mike Lawson.  Other good patters would be trudes, Royal Humpy, Chernobyl Ant, Stimulators, Madame X, and those Turck Tarantulas are all pretty appealing to the eye.  Perhaps maybe something like a J.J.Special or Creature (as tied by Gary LaFontaine) would be good too. HTH. Warren Thank you, great suggestions.  I’ve got some Madame Xs going and a couple of Mouserat style things that make the Creature look kempt.  If I can set aside a little more time I’ll set up for extended body flys too. Thank you. Glenn GKT

Response:

Can you name a few decent trout patterns that would catch the attention of fly fishers stopping to look at the flys we’re raffling?

I’m a sucker for hoppers, personally. Either that or adult damselflies. Put down the chainsaw and listen to me. It’s time for us to join in the fight.

Response:

<< Ernie Harrison"   << The Royal Coachman is an eye catcher. Ernie Good suggestion.  I’m out of practice so there’ll be some Bluegill specials as I warm up on the pattern. Thank you. Glenn GKT

Response:

 Deer hair Mouse, stops a lot of folks, realistic ties…stones ,beetles ants make people stop and look. Big colorful streamers and a scantly clad lady should do the trick…

Reminds of some lures I had as a kid. Here’s one for you Ken, a budweiser can. Another was a topless mermaid. Willi

Response:

A couple of "realistic" flies separately mounted on card invariably provoke some attention.  Relatively simple beetle patterns, with lifelike legs, "Daddy long legs" ( Crane fly, tipulidae ) with knotted pheasant tail legs, spiders  with knotted peacock herl for legs, and realistic looking ants, and similar stuff usually work quite well. They will also catch fish occasionally !!!

A realistic damselfly adult is an eye catcher, with its electric blue color and its large size for a fry fly. I also agree with Charlie that streamers are a good choice. I’d think a display of little rainbow, little brown, and little brook trout mounted side by side would get some attention. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

Response:

A set of Ghost patterns tied up big – some #4’s – ought to do it.  Definitely eye-catchers but they aren’t Silver Doctors to tie… /daytripper – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The Royal Coachman is an eye catcher. Ernie So what would catch a newbie’s eye?  And not take the time required for a full dress salmon fly? Maybe some streamers; little rainbow, brown, etc.

Response:

Some hopper paterns. Willi

Response:

 Deer hair Mouse, stops a lot of folks, realistic ties…stones ,beetles ants make people stop and look. Big colorful streamers and a scantly clad lady should do the trick… Here’s my question: Can you name a few decent trout patterns that would catch the attention of fly fishers stopping to look at the flys we’re raffling?

         Harry Mason     www.Troutflies.com               *** "Quality Flies for a Trout’s Eyes"

Response:

<< A realistic damselfly adult is an eye catcher, with its electric blue color and its large size for a fry fly. I also agree with Charlie that streamers are a good choice. I’d think a display of little rainbow, little brown, and little brook trout mounted side by side would get some attention.   <<  royalwulff Excellent advice.  Presentation is probably nearly as important as fly choice.  Thank you. Glenn GKT

Response:

<< Deer hair Mouse, stops a lot of folks, realistic ties…stones ,beetles ants make people stop and look. Big colorful streamers and a scantly clad lady should do the trick…   << Harry Mason   Our TU VP is a lovely woman but I think I’ll skip asking her to disrobe. Other than that, I’m going to put in a couple of Chris Helms style mice.  I appreciate the suggestion. Thank you. Glenn GKT

Response:

Can you name a few decent trout patterns that would catch the attention of fly fishers stopping to look at the flys we’re raffling?

Lots of good suggestions so far.  Streamers, in general, tend to be real eye catchers both because of their size and because they are often flashy attractors.  Hornbergs and Mickey Finns are both easy ties and eye catching, I think. Wolfgang

Response:

<< Lots of good suggestions so far.  Streamers, in general, tend to be real eye catchers both because of their size and because they are often flashy attractors.  Hornbergs and Mickey Finns are both easy ties and eye catching, I think. Wolfgang Thank you.  I thought of a Mickey Finn color pattern in a Hi-Ti style.  It’s a little time consuming and probably no more eye catching than a standard streamer. Glenn GKT

Response:

Use a Bee pattern.  The McGinty Bee attracts women who know nothing about fishing.  They all relate to it.  Many of the others just confuse them. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m tying for our local TU chapter’s raffle at the Somerset, NJ fly fishing show in January. We raffle off 500 or so flys in a a large wooden box.   I’ve done about 240 flys, at 6 specimens per type.  Since it takes me a few warm-up tries to get a decent fly with patterns I know well, and 50 tries on new patterns, I’ve also accumulated a pile of junk flies with which to go panfishing.  And I’m running out of inventiveness. Here’s my question: Can you name a few decent trout patterns that would catch the attention of fly fishers stopping to look at the flys we’re raffling? I put in some woven stones, I’ll do some woven Isonychia nymphs on swimming nymph hooks later today, and I have plenty of small spun deer hair items like Goddard Caddis and mini-Muddlers.  The other tyers and I have done plenty of flys that are actually useful, like BWO, GRHE, and Adams, but those are small and have to be examined closely. So what would catch a newbie’s eye?  And not take the time required for a full dress salmon fly? Thanks for the suggestions. Glenn GKT GKT

Response:

Glenn, How about some large, extended body mayflies like the Green Paradrake tied by Mike Lawson.  Other good patters would be trudes, Royal Humpy, Chernobyl Ant, Stimulators, Madame X, and those Turck Tarantulas are all pretty appealing to the eye.  Perhaps maybe something like a J.J. Special or Creature (as tied by Gary LaFontaine) would be good too. HTH. Warren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m tying for our local TU chapter’s raffle at the Somerset, NJ fly fishing show in January. We raffle off 500 or so flys in a a large wooden box.   I’ve done about 240 flys, at 6 specimens per type.  Since it takes me a few warm-up tries to get a decent fly with patterns I know well, and 50 tries on new patterns, I’ve also accumulated a pile of junk flies with which to go panfishing.  And I’m running out of inventiveness. Here’s my question: Can you name a few decent trout patterns that would catch the attention of fly fishers stopping to look at the flys we’re raffling? I put in some woven stones, I’ll do some woven Isonychia nymphs on swimming nymph hooks later today, and I have plenty of small spun deer hair items like Goddard Caddis and mini-Muddlers.  The other tyers and I have done plenty of flys that are actually useful, like BWO, GRHE, and Adams, but those are small and have to be examined closely. So what would catch a newbie’s eye?  And not take the time required for a full dress salmon fly? Thanks for the suggestions. Glenn GKT GKT

Before you buy.

Response:

I tied a deer hair mouse once.  It was very realistic looking.  I never did fish with it, figured it was too much work to give to a fish.  Don’t know what happened to it. Ernie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Deer hair Mouse, stops a lot of folks, realistic ties…stones ,beetles ants make people stop and look. Big colorful streamers and a scantly clad lady should do the trick… Harry Mason

Response:

<< A couple of "realistic" flies separately mounted on card invariably provoke some attention.  Relatively simple beetle patterns, with lifelike legs, "Daddy long legs" ( Crane fly, tipulidae ) with knotted pheasant tail legs, spiders  with knotted peacock herl for legs, and realistic looking ants, and similar stuff usually work quite well. They will also catch fish occasionally !!! << Mike Connor Good advice.  I was thinking of a Crane fly imitation like a Drowned Daddy. Thank you. Glenn Tippy GKT

Response:

The Royal Coachman is an eye catcher. Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – So what would catch a newbie’s eye?  And not take the time required for a full dress salmon fly? Maybe some streamers; little rainbow, brown, etc. — Charlie…

Response:

I’m tying for our local TU chapter’s raffle at the Somerset, NJ fly fishing show in January.   We raffle off 500 or so flys in a a large wooden box.   I’ve done about 240 flys, at 6 specimens per type.  Since it takes me a few warm-up tries to get a decent fly with patterns I know well, and 50 tries on new patterns, I’ve also accumulated a pile of junk flies with which to go panfishing.  And I’m running out of inventiveness. Here’s my question: Can you name a few decent trout patterns that would catch the attention of fly fishers stopping to look at the flys we’re raffling? I put in some woven stones, I’ll do some woven Isonychia nymphs on swimming nymph hooks later today, and I have plenty of small spun deer hair items like Goddard Caddis and mini-Muddlers.  The other tyers and I have done plenty of flys that are actually useful, like BWO, GRHE, and Adams, but those are small and have to be examined closely. So what would catch a newbie’s eye?  And not take the time required for a full dress salmon fly? Thanks for the suggestions. Glenn GKT GKT

Response:

So what would catch a newbie’s eye?  And not take the time required for a full dress salmon fly?

Maybe some streamers; little rainbow, brown, etc. — Charlie…

Response:

So what would catch a newbie’s eye?  And not take the time required for a full dress salmon fly?

Personally, I’ve always remember liking the looks of a Royal Trude.

Response:

A couple of "realistic" flies separately mounted on card invariably provoke some attention.  Relatively simple beetle patterns, with lifelike legs, "Daddy long legs" ( Crane fly, tipulidae ) with knotted pheasant tail legs, spiders  with knotted peacock herl for legs, and realistic looking ants, and similar stuff usually work quite well. They will also catch fish occasionally !!! TL MC — "Where fishing is concerned, most anglers are basically manic excessives" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m tying for our local TU chapter’s raffle at the Somerset, NJ fly fishing show in January.

Response:

Question:

What should the flyfishing be like around Hungry Horse, the first two weeks of July? What kind of patterns would be best to have and size?? Doesn’t anyone fish in Montona, or just no one wanting to answer a honest question?????

Wait a week, drive 5 hours to Ennis, and you’ll meet a whole bunch of guys from here who can help you! (see, the "more than you asked for" is starting already…) Regards, Jeff

Response:

Actually, you mean wait a ‘month’ (or two). Clave starts in late July. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What should the flyfishing be like around Hungry Horse, the first two weeks of July? What kind of patterns would be best to have and size?? Doesn’t anyone fish in Montona, or just no one wanting to answer a honest question????? Wait a week, drive 5 hours to Ennis, and you’ll meet a whole bunch of guys from here who can help you! (see, the "more than you asked for" is starting already…) Regards, Jeff

Response:

Actually, you mean wait a ‘month’ (or two). Clave starts in late July. What should the flyfishing be like around Hungry Horse, the first two weeks of July? What kind of patterns would be best to have and

size?? Geez, I hate it when I don’t read the original post! Do think on fishing the South Fork of the Flathead. My advice would be to take the drive south around Hungry Horse reservoir all the way to the trailhead at Spotted Bear. Hike upstream and start fishing! Attractor patterns work well on the cutts. — Tight Lines! Brian D. Nelson Diamond N Outfitters, Missoula, Montana http://www.montana.com/dno/dno.htm 406-626-4022

Response:

Wait a week, drive 5 hours to Ennis, and you’ll meet a whole bunch of guys from here who can help you!

If the clave in Ennis is next week I wish I would have told everyone that instead of Jul 21-31 Warren X#-[

Trout Dwellers Unite! Western Conclave Guru For info: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/sp_ROFF_people/wclave/wclave.html

Response:

He said he’d be there the first couple weeks in July.  I meant if he waited a week from then…. Wait a week, drive 5 hours to Ennis, and you’ll meet a whole bunch of guys from here who can help you! If the clave in Ennis is next week I wish I would have told everyone that instead of Jul 21-31 Warren

Regards, Jeff

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What should the flyfishing be like around Hungry Horse, the first two weeks of July? What kind of patterns would be best to have and size?? Doesn’t anyone fish in Montona, or just no one wanting to answer a honest question????? Wait a week, drive 5 hours to Ennis, and you’ll meet a whole bunch of guys from here who can help you! (see, the "more than you asked for" is starting already…) Regards, Jeff

Wish I could, but vacation is planned and we are taking some of grandkids

Response:

What should the flyfishing be like around Hungry Horse, the first two weeks of July? What kind of patterns would be best to have and size?? Doesn’t anyone fish in Montona, or just no one wanting to answer a honest question?????

well, i don’t know how runoff will be during your time frame… but i’ve heard great things about the s. fork flathead for native cutthroats.  i believe there’s a flyshop in whitefish or kalispell… i’m sure they’d be happy to give you some ideas on what will be best during that time frame.  good luck, it’s beautiful country there.  i wish i had spent more time fishing there, but i usually stop short of that area and fish some of the smaller rivers in nw montana. chris chris

Response:

What should the flyfishing be like around Hungry Horse, the first two weeks of July? What kind of patterns would be best to have and size??

Response:

For hungry horses, try a "haystack".   Very large pattern is probably best. Sorry, couldn

Question:

Hi Paint Island, Bordentown? That’s almost next door to me (Perrineville).  How can I get to your place from I-195? Are you going to be at Paddlesport ‘99 in Somerset? re:where to put the fish – I was thinking in the compartment in the back of the yak… Roger D.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Greetings from Paint Island Canoe & Kayak in Bordentown, NJ. Depending upon the size of the fish you may catch may also play a roll in what boat you chose. It also brings to mind a story in a seakayaker magazine about 2 years ago where a northwest coast paddler hooked a fish that pulled him for miles before the yaker gained control. In that case, or if you ever see this as a possibility, I would lean towards the bigger boat just in case you wind up further away from anywhere. You certainly will not go wrong with the Current Designs boats. Where will you put the fish you catch? Ron Paint Island Canoe & Kayak http://www.riversport.com/paintisland/

Response:

Greetings from Paint Island Canoe & Kayak in Bordentown, NJ. Depending upon the size of the fish you may catch may also play a roll in what boat you chose. It also brings to mind a story in a seakayaker magazine about 2 years ago where a northwest coast paddler hooked a fish that pulled him for miles before the yaker gained control. In that case, or if you ever see this as a possibility, I would lean towards the bigger boat just in case you wind up further away from anywhere. You certainly will not go wrong with the Current Designs boats. Where will you put the fish you catch? Ron Paint Island Canoe & Kayak http://www.riversport.com/paintisland/

Response:

Greetings from Paint Island Canoe & Kayak in Bordentown, NJ. Depending upon the size of the fish you may catch may also play a roll in what boat you chose. It also brings to mind a story in a seakayaker magazine about 2 years ago where a northwest coast paddler hooked a fish that pulled him for miles before the yaker gained control. In that case, or if you ever see this as a possibility, I would lean towards the bigger boat just in case you wind up further away from anywhere.

About a block or so from where I live is one of the major tributaries to Cayuga lake.  Ever late spring some really large carp come up into it to spawn (there are also some large rainbow, lake trout, brown trout, and landlock salmon that come up other times of the year).  I’ve got a little Aquaterra Caspia that I put in there with my flyrod.  Along with my regular paddle I bring a small hand paddle for manoevering about.  I’ve hooked several fish that have pulled me several hundred feet up and down the river, a couple of which I had on for over 20 minutes before they broke off.  I saw a fish there in the fall that was over 3′ long and easily 25 pounds. You certainly will not go wrong with the Current Designs boats. Where will you put the fish you catch?

Good question.  Although Current Designs makes some really nice boats I can’t think of any of the models that would be good for fishing out of. One of the nice things about the Caspia is that it has a large cockpit and when I fish from it I don’t use a spray skirt.  Something like an Old Town Loon 138 would also be good for kayak fishing because of the large cockpit and good initial stability. When someone comes here asking about a good kayak for fishing I see two different types of conditions.  There is the "getting from point A to point B" and then getting out to fish, and there are situations where one would want to fish while sitting in the boat.  For the latter type of fishing, a wide, stable kayak would be the best choice.  For the former, a kayak which will cover distance a little quicker might be better.  Most of the CD boats would be good for getting from point to point B, but not so good to actually fish from. John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email – Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.

Response:

O.K., tough choice.  I’m moving from a sit-on-top to a sit-inside. I want a kayak for fishing up to 2 miles off the (East) coast & back-bays.  Yes, I know there will be a transition, but I’m looking for a long term solution that I’ll ‘mature’ into.   Any suggestions are welcome?

Response:

O.K., tough choice.  I’m moving from a sit-on-top to a sit-inside. I want a kayak for fishing up to 2 miles off the (East) coast & back-bays.  Yes, I know there will be a transition, but I’m looking for a long term solution that I’ll ‘mature’ into.   Any suggestions are welcome?

There is quite a bit of a difference between the Current Designs Pachena and the Solstice GT.   You didn’t mention what kind of SOT boat that you are paddling now but the transition between that and the Solstice GT is likely going to be difficult.  I’ve done a bit of fishing (fly) out of a kayak and I can’t imagine trying to do it out of a Solstice.  It’s initial stability is pretty low and for fishing, you’ll want something that you don’t have to even think about maintaining upright.   The Pachena would likely be a much better choice for your needs.  Something like the Seda Viking at 16′6" and 24" wide would probably also be a good choice in a fiberglass boat. John Fereira Stop Unsolicited Commercial Email – Join CAUCE (http://www.cauce.org) Support HR 1748, the anti-spam bill.

Response:

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – here’s the story.  about a month ago a friend of mine and i got our california fishing licenses.  we have gone out several times with not much luck.  we live in reno nevada and have easy access to the truckee river, lake tahoe area, bridgeport area, and the lake davis area. most of our efforts have been concentrated on the truckee river and various other streams close by.  i have not caught anything yet and my friend has only caught one trout.  i have an experienced friend who says that flyfishing is "something you have to pay your dues with".  is that the general consensus?  what do you suggest if nothing seems to be working (like in my case)?  fish new areas?  delve into entomology?  read books? pay for a guide?  i feel like i can do this i just need to build some momentum up (and going in the right direction would help). my current setup is a 7′-6" bamboo 5/6 weight rod; 100 yards of 10 lb. backing; "courtland" shooting head line (floating); "scientific angler" leader.  i have been using and had strikes on wooly worms, wooly buggers, helgramites.  i have been using and not having luck with nymphs, cahills, grasshoppers, and various dry flies. there is nothing more frustrating than to be wading in the middle of a hole with fish rising all around me and not being able to catch one. this has actually happened twice. if anyone would be kind enough to help, my friend and i would greatly appreciate it.  thank you in advance.

Try to pick a fly that most closely matches the size of the insects that you see on the surface.  The next most important thing is to keep one hand on your line line at all times.  The fact that you are getting strikes means that your fly selection is not that bad.   A problem I used to have is I would mend and leave to much line out.   When I got a strike, I could not pull the line taught quickly enough to set the hook.  If you are not able to pull your line taught by raising your rod tip to 45 deg above horizontal, plus a single pull with your line hand, then you have to much line out. Brian Brian

Response:

here’s the story.  about a month ago a friend of mine and i got our california fishing licenses.  we have gone out several times with not much luck.  we live in reno nevada and have easy access to the truckee river, lake tahoe area, bridgeport area, and the lake davis area. most of our efforts have been concentrated on the truckee river and various other streams close by.  i have not caught anything yet and my friend has only caught one trout.  i have an experienced friend who says that flyfishing is "something you have to pay your dues with".  is that the general consensus?  what do you suggest if nothing seems to be working (like in my case)?  fish new areas?  delve into entomology?  read books? pay for a guide?  i feel like i can do this i just need to build some momentum up (and going in the right direction would help). my current setup is a 7′-6" bamboo 5/6 weight rod; 100 yards of 10 lb. backing; "courtland" shooting head line (floating); "scientific angler" leader.  i have been using and had strikes on wooly worms, wooly buggers, helgramites.  i have been using and not having luck with nymphs, cahills, grasshoppers, and various dry flies. there is nothing more frustrating than to be wading in the middle of a hole with fish rising all around me and not being able to catch one. this has actually happened twice. if anyone would be kind enough to help, my friend and i would greatly appreciate it.  thank you in advance.

Response:

Question:

Hey guys,         When I tried to move to the other chat site, I got a message that I needed either Java support or use an IRC site.  It then gave me the name of an IRC site to click on.  When I tried this, it then told me that it couldn’t find it.  Please help. John

Hi John I did as well and was unable to get on. I know we’ve had a couple of false starts but I think with Joe Byrd’s help we will get a good and regular chat going — at least that’s what I’m working toward. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

Response:

Hey guys,         When I tried to move to the other chat site, I got a message that I needed either Java support or use an IRC site.  It then gave me the name of an IRC site to click on.  When I tried this, it then told me that it couldn’t find it.  Please help. John

Response:

Question:

Quick suggestions needed!   I have an avid FF friend with a mid-January birthday. I know he currently doesn’t subscribe to any FF magazines, so I’d like to get him a subscription to one.  I’ve seen 3 or 4 different FF magizines in popular bookstores. Any one of these magazines recognized as the clear leader?  Which magazine would you suggest?                                                - Ken –

Response:

I have an avid FF friend with a mid-January birthday. I know he currently doesn’t subscribe to any FF magazines, so I’d like to get him a subscription to one.  I’ve seen 3 or 4 different FF magizines in popular bookstores.

Flyfisherman has been aroung a long time. It has become extremely commercialized and retail oriented over the years (or I have gotten more cynical about the business end of this "hobby") but may be good reading for anyone new to the sport. Another Mag with a provocative conservation slant (and equally commercial) is Fly Rod and Reel.  This would be a good choice for the fishing activist. If your friend lives towards the West Coast, "Flyfishing" would be a wise choice. It too has some hard hitting consevation type articles and a orientation towards the West Coast Fisheries.  If your friend is a fly tyer the "American Angler"  (formerly The American Fly Tyer") might be a worth considering.  All in all, I wouldn’t consider one a clear cut winner over the other, just they are all different. Good Luck on your selection Mark Powers Boston

Response:

: Any one of these magazines recognized as the clear leader?  Which : magazine would you suggest? I am acquainted with "Flyfisherman", "Flyfishing" and "The River Journal" I thoroughly enjoy Flyfisherman. It is an excellent magazine, very well done, with articles for the beginner (like myself) and the advanced fly fisherperson. It covers trout, salmon and salt water. Not much on other species as I remember. It has a very nice mix of articles on technique, fly tying and where to go. I subscribed to Flyfishing magazine but did not renew my subscription. Its coverage was quite similar to Flyfisherman, but I thought its editorial quality was rather poor. Some articles were riddled with misspellings, etc. In this day of electronic publishing there is no excuse for this. Both Flyfishing and The River Journal are done by Frank Amato publications. The River Journal, compared to Flyfishing, is very high quality. It is published four times per year. Each issue is written by a single author, and is devoted to a single river. It describes in some detail what the river is like, access, the fishing, the area around the river. It gives quite a good feel for what to expect when you actually go there. My recommendation would be for Flyfisherman.                                                         — al — |    UNISYS – Open System Products      Phone:  612-635-7240            | |    Roseville,MN                       FAX:    612-635-3899            |

Response:

        I think the year end blitz of junk-mail is attributable to the postal rate increase, more than anything else.  Actually, junk-mail mailings occur throughout the year – and I’ll bet that a number of companies decided to move up their mailing schedule to save some money.         As for lists – it has long been established practice for magazines to sell lists of their subscribers’ names and addresses (I think the going rate nowadays is about 8 cents per name).  They also buy their competition’s lists (finding new subscribers is difficult!).  If you’re starting a new business, it is one way to inexpensively target a niche market).  I’m not sure anything can be done about it from the recipient’s end – stop subscribing?  Stop buying?  But I do like the idea of changing your name slightly each time.  Oh, and I NEVER give out demographic information (except to the IRS). Cheers, – Jeff

Response:

   I think the year end blitz of junk-mail is attributable to the postal rate increase, more than anything else.  Actually, junk-mail mailings occur throughout the year – and I’ll bet that a number of companies decided to move up their mailing schedule to save some money.

Junk mail is a part of our culture.  Like it or not! I think I would rather live in a country effluent enough to support a healthy junk mail industry.   I don’t believe I said that?  :-) Effuent enough and doing it are two differant things.  MO is an important way of doing business.  Many things I own are not available in stores within a couple hundred miles. If available at all. George

Response:

[omissions] I think I would rather live in a country effluent enough to support a healthy junk mail industry.   I don’t believe I said that?  :-) Effuent enough and doing it are two differant things.  MO is an important way of doing business.  Many things I own are not available in stores within a couple hundred miles. If available at all.

I wouldn’t like to suggest you folks are river-fixated or anything, but the term is "affluent." "Effluent" is "to flow out" or "something that flows out," as an outflowing branch of a main stream, or waste material, as smoke or sewage. "Affluent" also means "to flow abundantly," but has the additional meaning of "abundance of property." — Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Disclaimer: Over 30 and born in Fredericton, NB

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I’ve given my address out to that had anything to do with flyfishing except one place.  A few weeks ago someone was offering a free catalog or something here.  I sent my email address and so far haven’t seen anything but I’m wondering if that was just a scam to sell a mailing list.  Has anyone else here all of a sudden started getting flyfishing related mail?

To who ever wrote the above: That was not a scam!  Your request is sitting in this office about 8 feet from the computer in a pile waiting to see how many respond to publish a free news letter.   Your name will not be sold or given away to anyone.   I will tell you an old trick I have been doing for years.  Key to replies. Advertisers key their ads.  Why not key your replies. Several years ago I send in a warranty card, you know the type, the ones who ask a lot of questions about your demographics.   Well I told them I was makeing over $200000 a year.   Hell you would have thought I was having a paper drive in my front yard.  I bought a Coleman stove.  Everybody flooded me and still are.  Two churches wanted me to join.  Funny thing, they wrote be a letter with my middle name as C.   C. for Colman.  :-) Did you folks by something for Christmas fishing related and sent in a warranty card? Not a scam, George – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Paul DiConza NY Capital District Angler

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve given my address out to that had anything to do with flyfishing except one place.  A few weeks ago someone was offering a free catalog or something here.  I sent my email address and so far haven’t seen anything but I’m wondering if that was just a scam to sell a mailing list.  Has anyone else here all of a sudden started getting flyfishing related mail? To who ever wrote the above: That was not a scam!  Your request is sitting in this office about 8 feet from the computer in a pile waiting to see how many respond to publish a free news letter.   Your name will not be sold or given away to anyone.   I will tell you an old trick I have been doing for years.  Key to replies. Advertisers key their ads.  Why not key your replies. Several years ago I send in a warranty card, you know the type, the ones who ask a lot of questions about your demographics.   Well I told them I was makeing over $200000 a year.   Hell you would have thought I was having a paper drive in my front yard.  I bought a Coleman stove.  Everybody flooded me and still are.  Two churches wanted me to join.  Funny thing, they wrote be a letter with my middle name as C.   C. for Colman.  :-) Did you folks by something for Christmas fishing related and sent in a warranty card? Not a scam, George

Well very interesting.  I checked my list of everyone who sent in a request and non of you folks are on my list.   So god knows what happened to the names you sent to whomever.   Anyway if any of you want a free newsletter.  Send in you name and address for postal delivery.  That the only way we can send it out to you.   Some of the sponsors want to send free samples so can’t do it electronically.  It would be like Pizza Hut faxing you your pizza.  :-)  The technology is just not here yet.   For be it from me to turn down a box of hooks or what every. Later, George,

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…. If your friend lives towards the West Coast, "Flyfishing" would be a wise choice.

Another interesting publication is "California Fly Fisher."  Although the editorial slant is California fishing and fisheries, it also has a number of general interest articles, and the writing so far has consistantly been of high quality.  If interested, you might give them a call at 415-284-0313.  I don’t know if they send out sample copies, but its worth a try. Cheers, – Jeff

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Make no mistake, folks: Mailing lists are hot items out there. In the course of starting up 8-Wt Journal, obviously we had to compile a mailing list (especially after offering free sample issues through the net here). I’ve got about ten years in the publishing business behind me, but even I was surprised at how, when I contacted other flyfishing publications regarding reviews, space ads and so forth, at how most wanted copies of our list. Having been subjected to mail list abuse myself in the past, we declined all offers (and intend to continue this practice). But for many operators of all stripes–from tackle and fly shops who just have a local mailing list to big-name equipment makers, selling mail/customer lists is considered just one more revenue enhancer. JL 8-Wt Editor

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Coincidently, I just got the sales pitch letter for a subscription to Fly Rod & Reel this morning in the mail.  I had never seen the magazine before.  Coincidently, I got a "free-trial subscription" letter from Flyfisherman and "American Angler" a couple of days before.  I also got a catalog for JW Outfitters. It’s been a few months since I put my name on a mailing list at the local fly shop and I can’t think of any place else that I’ve given my address out to that had anything to do with flyfishing except one place.  A few weeks ago someone was offering a free catalog or something here.  I sent my email address and so far haven’t seen anything but I’m wondering if that was just a scam to sell a mailing list.  Has anyone else here all of a sudden started getting flyfishing related mail?

Yeah, all at the same time from American Angler, Flyfisherman, and Fly Rod & Reel.  I’m on a number of lists, though, since I have recently bought stuff from Orvis, The Bass Pond, and Cabela’s.   Just a consumer tip:  I subscribed to American Angler this past year for about 15 bucks.  I found it to be excellent especially for tying tips. Then they wanted me to renew for 20 bucks, but I thought I could do better so I ignored their repeated pleas and let the subscription run out.  Sure enough, on ESPN Outdoors Saturday morning I saw a toll-free number to subscribe to AA for 15 bucks…BUT before I got around to calling, I got all these freebie notices, including one from AA!  So I’ll get a free issue, plus a low rate for the other 5 issues.  With the money I saved, I’m going to buy all of the Paradise Valley spring creeks…  ;) Paul DiConza NY Capital District Angler

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My recommendation would be for Flyfisherman. I second the recommendation, and for a publication with an in-your-face conservation slant, try Fly Rod & Reel.

Coincidently, I just got the sales pitch letter for a subscription to Fly Rod & Reel this morning in the mail.  I had never seen the magazine before.  Coincidently, I got a "free-trial subscription" letter from Flyfisherman and "American Angler" a couple of days before.  I also got a catalog for JW Outfitters.  Before I digress, because I plan to, "American Angler" is also a very good magazine for flyfishing.  For those that tie their own flies I would recommend it highly over Flyfisherman.  This topic has come up many times before and I’ve always highly recommended "California FlyFisher".  Everytime I do I get email asking for the subscription address, so here it is: California FlyFisher PO Box 40429 San Francisco, CA 94140 (415) 284-0313 Back to my digression.  It’s been a few months since I put my name on a mailing list at the local fly shop and I can’t think of any place else that I’ve given my address out to that had anything to do with flyfishing except one place.  A few weeks ago someone was offering a free catalog or something here.  I sent my email address and so far haven’t seen anything but I’m wondering if that was just a scam to sell a mailing list.  Has anyone else here all of a sudden started getting flyfishing related mail? — John Fereira "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA "Ask me about my vow of silence."

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…deleted material…. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Coincidently, I just got the sales pitch letter for a subscription to Fly Rod & Reel this morning in the mail.  I had never seen the magazine before.  Coincidently, I got a "free-trial subscription" letter from Flyfisherman and "American Angler" a couple of days before.  I also got a catalog for JW Outfitters. …deleted material…. ….  It’s been a few months since I put my name on a mailing list at the local fly shop and I can’t think of any place else that I’ve given my address out to that had anything to do with flyfishing except one place.  A few weeks ago someone was offering a free catalog or something here.  I sent my email address and so far haven’t seen anything but I’m wondering if that was just a scam to sell a mailing list.  Has anyone else here all of a sudden started getting flyfishing related mail? — John Fereira "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA "Ask me about my vow of silence."

I also recently received all "Free trial subscription" offers from the above three fly fishing publications. (less the California one).  And I also sent my address in on the catalog/free issue offer on the list… hmmmm…… Provo, Utah

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: Any one of these magazines recognized as the clear leader?  Which : magazine would you suggest? I subscribed to Flyfishing magazine but did not renew my subscription. Its coverage was quite similar to Flyfisherman, but I thought its editorial quality was rather poor. Some articles were riddled with misspellings, etc. In this day of electronic publishing there is no excuse for this.

I bought the latest issue of Flyfishing because, frankly, it had a fish on the cover. I was extremely disappointed with the content. I found it to be flagrantly self-promoting (of Frank Amato publications), spelling and grammar errors galore, and the ad for "The Miracle of the Eucharist" or whatever in the midst of ad copy for fishing literature annoyingly incongruent. My recommendation would be for Flyfisherman.

I second the recommendation, and for a publication with an in-your-face conservation slant, try Fly Rod & Reel.                                                         — al — |    UNISYS – Open System Products Phone:  612-635-7240            | |    Roseville,MN                  FAX:    612-635-3899            |

– Dave Ridge Storage Technology Corp

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