Question:

I am planning a trip to the Outer Banks of NC in August, probably staying on Cedar Island and boating over to the back of the core banks where I would like to do some fly fishing. My fly fishing experience is limited to cold water trout streams. I have no saltwater fly fishing experience, and I have not visited the Outer Banks before. Is my plan reasonable? Is the western side of the national seashore good for fly fishing? Are the waters around Cedar Island good for fly fishing? What species of fish can I expect to catch in this area on flies? What flies are good for use in this area? Thank you, Bob

Response:

I am planning a trip to the Outer Banks of NC in August, probably staying on Cedar Island and boating over to the back of the core banks where I would like to do some fly fishing. My fly fishing experience is limited to cold water trout streams. I have no saltwater fly fishing experience, and I have not visited the Outer Banks before. Is my plan reasonable? Is the western side of the national seashore good for fly fishing? Are the waters around Cedar Island good for fly fishing? What species of fish can I expect to catch in this area on flies? What flies are good for use in this area? Thank you, Bob

FWIW, if I were you I would consider hiring a guide for a day or two. Your trout equipment is going to be unsuitable in the salt due to salt water corrosion problems. In addition it is not uncommon to hook fish that run a long way, and without sufficient backing, you are likely to lose a fly line as well as ruin a reel.  A guide will help you with your casting which probably is going to be in windy conditions. Casting is much different in salt water conditions. I have no monetary connections with guides, but some of the best money I have ever spent was for guides when I was visiting in unfamiliar places and fishing unknown waters. Give ROFF a report when you get back.

Response:

Try contacting Gordon Churchill, a local guide in that area at http://www.geocities.com/capt_gordon/ .  He’s a good fellow and has always provided good information whether you hire him or not.   Tom – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am planning a trip to the Outer Banks of NC in August, probably staying on Cedar Island and boating over to the back of the core banks where I would like to do some fly fishing. My fly fishing experience is limited to cold water trout streams. I have no saltwater fly fishing experience, and I have not visited the Outer Banks before. Is my plan reasonable? Is the western side of the national seashore good for fly fishing? Are the waters around Cedar Island good for fly fishing? What species of fish can I expect to catch in this area on flies? What flies are good for use in this area? Thank you, Bob

Response:

I am planning a trip to the Outer Banks of NC in August, probably staying on Cedar Island and boating over to the back of the core banks where I would like to do some fly fishing. My fly fishing experience is limited to cold water trout streams. I have no saltwater fly fishing experience, and I have not visited the Outer Banks before. Is my plan reasonable? Is the western side of the national seashore good for fly fishing? Are the waters around Cedar Island good for fly fishing? What species of fish can I expect to catch in this area on flies? What flies are good for use in this area? Thank you, Bob

http://www.google.de/search?q=NC+Cedar+Banks+fishing&hl=de&meta= Turned up over five thousand hits.  Must be at least a few with exactly the info you want. TL MC

Response:

Purely out of curiosity, I checked a few, sounds pretty good. http://www.coastalguide.com/packet/fishing01.htm http://www.icw-net.com/fish.htm http://www.outerbanks.com/fishing/fishcal.htm http://www.ufish.com/regions/_nc.htm#COASTAL These were all from the first hit. Wish I was going with you. TL MC

Response:

Thank you everyone for the replies. I E-mailed Capt. Churchill and am going to give serious thought to hiring him. Bob – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Try contacting Gordon Churchill, a local guide in that area at http://www.geocities.com/capt_gordon/ .  He’s a good fellow and has always provided good information whether you hire him or not.   Tom I am planning a trip to the Outer Banks of NC in August, probably staying on Cedar Island and boating over to the back of the core banks where I would like to do some fly fishing. My fly fishing experience is limited to cold water trout streams. I have no saltwater fly fishing experience, and I have not visited the Outer Banks before. Is my plan reasonable? Is the western side of the national seashore good for fly fishing? Are the waters around Cedar Island good for fly fishing? What species of fish can I expect to catch in this area on flies? What flies are good for use in this area? Thank you, Bob

Response:

Question:

All who contribute to ROFF are equally important, as ROFF is a team effort, and as such far greater than any individual, or even the sum of the individuals involved. Most of us are here to enjoy ourselves in the discussion of a common interest and its periphery, often including wild  tangents,or indeed completely unrelated subject matter. Nobody has more rights than anybody else, and everybody is free to voice their opinions as they see fit.

Sounds like a great intro paragraph for any newbies stumbling in here and wondering what the hell we’re about.    Thanks for leading the way Mike. <bg Joe F.

Response:

I was serious once in 1968.  Never again though.  I am not related to our fearless leader (or our defacto roff leader. wordsmith Mike Conner)   For people who like to stir up shit and get people worked up ( mostly over nothing ) roff is a "target rich" enviroment.  Many pots of stercium and me with a stick, how can one resist to stir it up once in a while. I do fly fish and do pick up many pearls of information ( for which I am grateful ) from roff participants.   I also try to contribute ( meaningful fly fishing information) when I am able. I consider any string "off topic" as open for any comments. I don’t like being corrected by Ditto headed republicans,  If you have the mental capacity of a 3 year old crowbar  what can you  teach?

OK, so Latin, grammar, and punctuation are out…from your other response, trolling is out.  I stick by my original suggestion…

Response:

I do not lead anything or anybody at all, and I have no desire so to do. This being the case, I would prefer not to be so titulated. My opinions are worth no more than any other opinions which might be published by various people on here, except in the sense that some of my experience or knowledge of the subject  might tend to give them more weight.  I often discuss relatively simple facts, and there is little chance of much going wrong if one sticks to these. This applies only to subjects of which I have direct knowledge and experience, that is, mainly fishing related, and does not qualify me in any way to hold forth on any other subject. It is not my intention to influence people to any great degree, and I usually only answer specific questions or enter discussions on specific subjects about which I know something, apart from when I engage in writing usually more or less nonsensical doggerel, attempting mostly humorous comebacks, or the occasional story, which to date,  have all been factual, and related to direct experience. Most unfortunate that some people appear to have gotten the idea that I might lead anything.  All who contribute to ROFF are equally important, as ROFF is a team effort, and as such far greater than any individual, or even the sum of the individuals involved. Most of us are here to enjoy ourselves in the discussion of a common interest and its periphery, often including wild  tangents,or indeed completely unrelated subject matter. Nobody has more rights than anybody else, and everybody is free to voice their opinions as they see fit. While I am aware that many people respect my opinions, and  I find this gratifying of course, I would be most disappointed to be considered as some sort of guru, most especially one responsible for the general tone. This is most certainly not the case, and would also be insulting to many others, were it indeed so. TL MC — "If you have tried everything you know, and nothing works, then perhaps it is time to accept that you don

Question:

Thanks Frank (Church), I just got the news service that you recommended up and running.  It posts messages with alacrity!  Unlike the new ISP I just subscribed to, which apparently only posts periodically.  I will use your suggested service I believe. Op

Response:

Cool Ope, and as a backup here’s one out of Canuckland that is even faster: (free-news.risq.qc.ca) with apologies to all our hoser roffians. Frank (pro-hoser) Church Elkhart, IN USAF RETIRED – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thanks Frank (Church), I just got the news service that you recommended up and running.  It posts messages with alacrity!  Unlike the new ISP I just subscribed to, which apparently only posts periodically.  I will use your suggested service I believe. Op

Response:

Thanks Frank (Church), I just got the news service that you recommended up and running.  It posts messages with alacrity!

That’s funny – my Alacrity Detector(tm) didn’t go off… /daytripper ("Back to the laboratory!")

Response:

Thanks Frank (Church), I just got the news service that you recommended up and running.  It posts messages with alacrity!

        *alacrity*?  a guy from boone who uses "alacrity"?  what the hell is the world coming to?         you go, opie! wayno

Response:

I just got the news service that you recommended up and running.  It posts messages with alacrity!

Damn Opie, now *I’ve* gotta go look something up in the dictionary…. Regards, Jeff

Response:

That’s funny – my Alacrity Detector(tm) didn’t go off…

That’s because it’s calibrated in nanoseconds. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

I just got the news service that you recommended up and running.  It posts messages with alacrity! Damn Opie, now *I’ve* gotta go look something up in the dictionary…. Regards, Jeff

Jeff, I got tired of hauling out my dictionary with the fine print just to read a fly fishing News Group so I bought a talking dictionary on a CD.  Now I look them up with alacrity.  I even know how to pronounce strange words that show up on ROFF. Ernie Harrison

Response:

Question:

Has anyone any experience flyfishing in Puerto Penasco(Rocky Point), Sonora?  Is it worth a trip from Phoenix? Thanks. Mike Jarvis

Response:

Not much personal experience I do know the Desert Flycasters usually take a trip once a year to fish sea trout in the estuaries.  Usually in Nov, / Dec.  I believe any sardine / anchovy type streamer should work. My experience was with spinning using small spoons.  I caught a variety of fish, some I couldn’t identify. I have heard of some brave hearted fellows flyfishing off pelican point in float tubes for trigger fish.  Don’t get caught in the current – could be a long swim to shore. — William Endicott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Has anyone any experience flyfishing in Puerto Penasco(Rocky Point), Sonora?  Is it worth a trip from Phoenix? Thanks. Mike Jarvis

Response:

Question:

This got me to thinking:  At what distance do you normally catch your fish?  For me the answer is less than 50 feet, usually more like 30 feet.  On the rivers I fish, if I drop a dry   100 feet up-stream and I get an immediate rise, I can’t set the hook. Now, this just might be this old curmudgeon’s inability to react in time, but I don’t think so.  

The areas I fish are usually less than 40ft across, so I rarely have out more than 30ft of line out.  When trying to reach a section just off the opposite bank and up/downstream a bit I’ll have maybe 50ft out.  I find that presentation is FAR more important than distance, so I use lightweight slow action rods most of the time. It’s fine by me if everyone wants the extra-fast actions, it makes those the high-end/high-priced models and I can get a slow/moderate action rod for cheaper.  To each his own. Later,      - Ken — "To listen to some devout people, one would imagine that God never laughs."         – Ghose Aurobindo

Response:

<<G  Been there.  Done that.  Possible exception being the Chatooga. Dave

True, but even there most of my casts are pretty short (sometimes just due to other fishermen<g). The only times I’ve really _had_ to cast a long ways have been in saltwater. Like you said, presentation (and line control) are more important to the way I normally fish than distance. — Charlie…

Response:

I got started in fly fishing in a tournament casting club.  I really enjoyed the competition and it greatly enhanced my fishing skills. The advantage of distance casting, I find really depends on the type of fishing your involved in.  As you say, with trout I probably catch most my fish within 50 feet.  However, in the Salt for bonito the longer the cast the longer the retrieve and more water covered.  Sometimes lake fishing I see fish rising at quite a distance and the long cast allows me to catch the fish. I love to fish for Bluegill,  those little buggers are always located way back behind the reeds and I’m fishing from shore.  The long cast with my 4 wt is critical for this type of fishing. The long cast is not always necessary, but it sure is a handy tool.  So I’ll give you my answer to those trying to find a better casting rod.  The better casting rod is found in your closet, the trick is to force it to practice, practice, and then practice it some more.  This method for creating a better casting rod is so good that the rod will even teach the other rods in your closet how to cast better!! Good Luck, Bill — William Endicott – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – At a recent fly fishing show, I saw folks trying their damndest to get as much line out as possible — regular Lefty Kreh’s they were.  Now, double hauling might be important when fishing salt, but I fail to see why *distance* is the primary concern when casting.  Double haulting a 3 or 4 weight?  Presentation is more important than distance (imho) when fishing with light tackle to trout and salmon, yet here stands a guy double hauling a 3 weight and doing his utmost to get to the end of the casting pool, instead of seeing how lightly he can place the casting yarn on the water, how easily he can turn over the leader. This got me to thinking:  At what distance do you normally catch your fish?  For me the answer is less than 50 feet, usually more like 30 feet.  On the rivers I fish, if I drop a dry   100 feet up-stream and I get an immediate rise, I can’t set the hook. Now, this just might be this old curmudgeon’s inability to react in time, but I don’t think so.   When nymphing, my casts are typically only 20 feet, the less line on the water the better, but I may cast farther simply to let the fly sink to the correct zone. I would appreciate your comments.  Why the macho distance crap with light tackle? Dave LaCourse

Response:

Now saltwater, there’s a place you need to cast distance.  Because the thing is, even if you don’t need to throw your whole line, you ned the technique that enables you to.  Why?  Wind.  In the salt, you’re quite often casting into very stiff breezes, where throwing forty or fifty feet of line requires the same mechanics that throwing 80 – 100 feet does.

Response:

At a recent fly fishing show, I saw folks trying their damndest to get as much line out as possible — regular Lefty Kreh’s they were.  Now, double hauling might be important when fishing salt,

There is a difference between "fishing" and "casting".   Are you sure those guys were not just "feeling" the new rod out? A lot of the competition casters would push a new rod to find its limits and get a "feel" for the rod. Whenever I go to a casting pond, I’d work on certain aspects of casting stroke, be it timeing or power snap etc. I’d double haul a 3 wt if I feel I need to work on the timing aspects of the haul etc.. A 3 wt will not tire me out as much as a 5wt or 8 wt, and I get more out of a practice session when I am not tired and fighting the rod all the time. In other words, I practice "casting", not "fishing" at the casting pond. I fish Deschutes all the time, and I rarely think about loop control, timing or any other aspects of casting when I am on the river; it’s all automatic. I also rarely use more than  20 feet of line when I am fishing. In other words, I just fish whenever I am on the river.

Response:

Mr. G. —

Question:

 I’m curious about the Cabelas Dry Plus – the article implied that the neoprene feet are too thin and will invite leaks. Has anyone had a problem with this? Sam

I have used the Cabelas Dry Plus waders for a year now and I have not had any problems. I tend to do a lot of walking when out on the stream and they have held up great. They have neoprene knee pads which is nice.  They also come with a patch kit that includes the same material that the waders are made out of. If you get a leak you just iron this material into the waders – kind of melts together on the inside. Good luck, Greg

Response:

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I picked up the article on breathable waders in Fly Rod and Reel, and it was pretty informative. As always, there’s a tradeoff – between breathability, durability, and price. Find a match for any two of the variables and it might not match the third one. According to the article, Orvis Clearwaters sound the best for breathability/price but sacrifice puncture resistance. (But the warranty is nice.) The Hodgemans sounded like a good deal in that price range also. I’m curious about the Cabelas Dry Plus – the article implied that the neoprene feet are too thin and will invite leaks. Has anyone had a problem with this? Sam – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – There appears to be two typesof breathable waders; the gortex at $300 plus, and the Orvis type, now carried by many companies, at $129 to $160.  Orvis was first out with these they were mostly a dark green color.  I had a pair that worked fine until I lent them to my wife.  Then they developed  three holes in the seat.  Orvis replaced them free of charge.  LL Bean carries them and they guarantee there goods  beyond most companies. I liked them but they are too cold for float tubing, even with long underwear. JackKowalski e t… Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Response:

There is an article on breathable waders in the current issue of "Fly Rod & Reel".  They seemed to be most impressed with the Hodgman’s of the Cabela’s, Hodgman’s and Orvis. JS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – test t… Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Response:

very well made. writes: I’m wondering how well they’d hold up when float tubing. I won’t be doing a whole lot of float tubing, but I wonder whether I should get a cheap pair of neoprenes for the purpose. They hold up well. Wayne Knight Geneva IL

Response:

1) Where can I find Orvis Clearwaters for $129? I have only seen them at the listed $165.

There is an ad in this month’s Fly Fisherman.  It seems that Orvis has had an "official" price reduction on the Clearwater Breathable.  All Orvis dealers should now be honoring this price.

Response:

Anyone try the new Redington breatheable waders? I’ve seen them in a catalog only but they sound like a great deal. Four year unconditional warranty and $169. I’d like to see how they compare to the really expensive Simms. Thanks Michael L – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Response:

I’m wondering how well they’d hold up when float tubing. I won’t be doing a whole lot of float tubing, but I wonder whether I should get a cheap pair of neoprenes for the purpose.

They hold up well. Wayne Knight Geneva IL                            

Response:

I, too, have been considering entry level breathable waders.  In addition to the Hodgeman, Cabela’s and Orvis Clearwater, I am considering the LL Bean Streamlight Breathable Stockingfoot waders. Several comments/questions I have to Bill Kiene and others: 1) Where can I find Orvis Clearwaters for $129? I have only seen them at the listed $165.

Unicoi Outfitters in Helen, GA  had them at $129 when I was up there yesterday. — Charlie…

Response:

There appears to be two typesof breathable waders; the gortex at $300 plus, and the Orvis type, now carried by many companies, at $129 to $160.  Orvis was first out with these they were mostly a dark green color.  I had a pair that worked fine until I lent them to my wife.  Then they developed  three holes in the seat.  Orvis replaced them free of charge.  LL Bean carries them and they guarantee there goods  beyond most companies. I liked them but they are too cold for float tubing, even with long underwear. JackKowalski

t… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Response:

test t… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Response:

I am excited that breathables will be coming down in price, but our top selling

Jeez Bill, at $349.00 those Simms Guide Models had better guide me to some VERY nice holes! 8^} — To reply, please remove "hormel" from my address.  Diapers and politicians should be changed regularly,  often for the same reason.

Response:

I, too, have been considering entry level breathable waders.  In addition to the Hodgeman, Cabela’s and Orvis Clearwater, I am considering the LL Bean Streamlight Breathable Stockingfoot waders. Several comments/questions I have to Bill Kiene and others: 1) Where can I find Orvis Clearwaters for $129? I have only seen them at the listed $165. 2) I like the Orvis and LL Bean models because they come in both men’s and women’s cuts/sizes.  When I buy, I plan to get two pair; one for myself and one for my wife. 3) I am concerned about the lack of knee protection (for we clumsy) on the Clearwater and Hodgeman waders.  Orvis, of course, has the excellent warranty.  But both the Cabela’s and the Streamlight waders have reinforced knees and LL Bean’s warranty is even better. I am only trying to get more information to make a decision.  Any and all comments would be appreciated. Jonathan Williamson

Response:

I am excited that breathables will be coming down in price, but our top selling Jeez Bill, at $349.00 those Simms Guide Models had better guide me to some VERY nice holes! 8^}

I’m planning to buy a pair of Simms. (Fortunately, I can get them wholesale). I’m wondering how well they’d hold up when float tubing. I won’t be doing a whole lot of float tubing, but I wonder whether I should get a cheap pair of neoprenes for the purpose. — something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Response:

Here’s yet another equipment question: This topic has probably been covered here previously, but I’m looking for a breathable wader for hot spring/fall fishing in the Southwest. Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make a breathable wader in the $160 price range. Does anyone have any feedback they could give me about quality of these two, how well they’ve held up over time, etc? Thanks, Sam

Hi Sam, I am sure that Hodgeman and Cabela’s both make good waders and stand behind them, but Orvis has the hottest deal on entry level breathables( anything under $200) Their Clearwater stocking foot breathable chest waders come with a neoprene foot and suspenders for $129. They also have a prorated 4 year warranty. I am excited that breathables will be coming down in price, but our top selling Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

Response:

Question:

I am not sure about loading the boat solo.  Its not so much the weight but

I’ve just switched canoes from an Old Town to a handmade wooden one. The wooden one weighs at least 20 pounds less, but is too hard to handle completely well alone in getting it off the truck and back on the sawhorses, so I’ve been paddling for overnights in the tiny Otter, with stuff strapped on deck.  Otter fits in my truck bed on a diagonal.  The new canoe is 18 feet and the fore/aft wobble and so forth and need to try to keep the wood safe is just more work than the weight loss is worth.  I’ll probably be selling it next year. The Old Towns are wonderful.  You don’t have to worry about dents.  I used to take that thing off my car (lousy arm strength) by looking over to my right to be sure there was nothing pointy and tip/flipping it off.  As people would stare, I’d smile and say, "It’s a Old Town." and go get the rest of my gear out of my trunk.  I even used to be able to get it on top of my truck by doing the crawl under, lift bow, set bow on top of truck and shove until it was in the right position. I did that on a well used Old Town for 10 years and it was in about the same shape when I handed it on as it was when I bought it.  Faded more, though, and one long nasty scratch that has to be fixed by the new owner. So go for the Old Town, even a bit heavy, if you don’t mind some unconventional on and off vehicle moves.  I’m 5′4" and out of shape and if I could do it, darn near anyone can.  Oh, yeah, middlel-aged, too.  However, if I could find a 40 pound kevlar at a price I could afford, I’d be on it like a shot. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -the size could get tough.  I carry it myself but its helpful having my son guide the back as I load it on and off.  But that may just be me…your coleman seemed to be heavier. I’m now back in the market and looking for an all-purpose boat to cover the following usage: 65% fishing (with electric or tiny outboard) 30% flatwater paddling (maybe day trips or overnights) 5% "whitewater" (certainly ning more than a class 2+) ty. er) It seems to me that Old Town makes more general purpose boats than the other manufacturers, let me know if I am wrong. Woodbury, MN

—– I only answer my email every few months, on average.   Patience helps.   http://www.visi.com/~cyli

Response:

If I bought a Discovery I’d buy the 169.  Its patterned on their "tripper" which is a great boat.  A friend has the 169 and it seems decent. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Old Town Discovery 160K Old Town Discovery 133K Old Town Discovery 147 (current front runner)

Response:

Try before you buy…saying that… I had the same requirements you had except I also have a requirement of bringing my son along with me.  I went with the Mad River Revelation.  It does everything you want.  Its about 78 pounds, 17ft, and very stable also its expensive.  I fly fish out of it and its very comfortable to have my son in the front and me in the back.  It is amazingly comfortable to paddle over the lakes we fish.  It easily fits four for day trip though I have not tried camping out of it yet.  The electric motor is nice but because we enjoyed paddling it so much we use it only for trolling. I have not tried white water but have heard of others having no problems. I am not sure about loading the boat solo.  Its not so much the weight but the size could get tough.  I carry it myself but its helpful having my son guide the back as I load it on and off.  But that may just be me…your coleman seemed to be heavier. Good luck. John – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Back in the early 80’s I canoed quite a bit.  Yes, I was a teenager, broke and naive, and bought a 15′ Coleman.  (Yada, yada, yada).  I enjoyed that, fished the heck out of it, camped out of it some and ran a few rapids I probably shouldn’t have. I’m now back in the market and looking for an all-purpose boat to cover the following usage: 65% fishing (with electric or tiny outboard) 30% flatwater paddling (maybe day trips or overnights) 5% "whitewater" (certainly ning more than a class 2+) Now I certainly don’t expect to find something that shines at everything. I had originally decided to do something square-sterned but decided that a double-ended boat would be more versatile.  I want to favor fishing since that will be my heaviest usage.  Tracking well under power would be important so I’m assuming a flat or slightly rockeredboat would be appropriate.  I might also row when fishing solo.  I will fish out of it a lot solo so ease of car topping is also important ( I used to do my Coleman alone and I think the 15′ I had was about 85 lbs).  But I want the ability to hold two for fishing comfortably, or hold three on a day or overnight paddle.  I favor plastic boats for cost and durability. I’m hoping the experts here can help. What have I come up with?  My best guesses so far are: Old Town Discovery 160K Old Town Discovery 133K Old Town Discovery 147 (current front runner) It seems to me that Old Town makes more general purpose boats than the other manufacturers, let me know if I am wrong. Let me know what you think. Thanks a lot, Keith Hatfull Woodbury, MN

Response:

Back in the early 80’s I canoed quite a bit.  Yes, I was a teenager, broke and naive, and bought a 15′ Coleman.  (Yada, yada, yada).  I enjoyed that, fished the heck out of it, camped out of it some and ran a few rapids I probably shouldn’t have. I’m now back in the market and looking for an all-purpose boat to cover the following usage: 65% fishing (with electric or tiny outboard) 30% flatwater paddling (maybe day trips or overnights) 5% "whitewater" (certainly ning more than a class 2+) Now I certainly don’t expect to find something that shines at everything.  I had originally decided to do something square-sterned but decided that a double-ended boat would be more versatile.  I want to favor fishing since that will be my heaviest usage.  Tracking well under power would be important so I’m assuming a flat or slightly rockeredboat would be appropriate.  I might also row when fishing solo.  I will fish out of it a lot solo so ease of car topping is also important ( I used to do my Coleman alone and I think the 15′ I had was about 85 lbs).  But I want the ability to hold two for fishing comfortably, or hold three on a day or overnight paddle.  I favor plastic boats for cost and durability. I’m hoping the experts here can help. What have I come up with?  My best guesses so far are: Old Town Discovery 160K Old Town Discovery 133K Old Town Discovery 147 (current front runner) It seems to me that Old Town makes more general purpose boats than the other manufacturers, let me know if I am wrong. Let me know what you think. Thanks a lot, Keith Hatfull Woodbury, MN

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Old Town is OK but consider a Mad River Explorer in Royalex.  They cost a bit more, but have more stability, and load carrying capacity.  They can handle any reasonable whitewater. (The first  open canoe down the Grand Canyon was Jim Shelander’s explorer. )

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If you can take the time paddle every boat that is recommended to you. I am totally biased but I don’t think you will find a better boat for your described purpose than a Dagger Sewannee. 15 feet, reasonably light, and paddles better than you will believe until you try it. Go with the three seat version and venture  into only very mild whitewater in any of this type of  boat. There should be a description at www.Dagger.com Steve Scarborough

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Question:

For some reason I got a notice that said this group has been deleted?  Does it still exist? Pete – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group.   Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?

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CAN I SEE SOME PICTURES

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CAN I SEE SOME PICTURES

 what do you wnat to see? naked fish?

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: Have you reported it to net.abuse.*? : Unfortunately, that’ll be akin to blowing against the wind… : The professional spam artists (how’s that for an oxymoron?) seek out groups : with "binaries" as part of the name and bombard them with ads for their porn : sites. Get used to it – it’ll only get worse as the group propagates around : Usenet… Which is one reason I hate GUI newsreaders. All they do is allow stupid people to abuse the newsgroups. Even the binaries newsgroups had little trouble before Netscape and others like it allowed you to view pictures directly from the newsgroups. USENET predates the internet but if things keep up like this USENET will soon be just a minor website. It sucks. BiNM

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someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group.   Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?

Unfortunately, that’ll be akin to blowing against the wind… The professional spam artists (how’s that for an oxymoron?) seek out groups with "binaries" as part of the name and bombard them with ads for their porn sites. Get used to it – it’ll only get worse as the group propagates around Usenet… Cheers! /dave <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< < Digital Equipment Corp.       Alpha Server Engineering < < Parker Street Campus            Maynard, Massachusetts   < <        Charter Member of "Curmudgeons Unlimited"       < <<<<<<<<<<<< AMA 548313 <<<<<<<<<<<< Disclaimer: Opinion and content is mine alone, and unlikely             to be shared by my employer, etc…

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TimW Of course, one could argue that this is a pic showing the source of fly tying materials for the "Hairy Mary".

Well, at least you made your post fly-tying related.  Just be glad it wasn’t a related photograph showing the source for Tup’s Indispensible. *<|:-#)=-   (Santa Smiley) -Clyde

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someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group. Have you reported it to net.abuse.*?

No, but I will… TimW

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Further evidence that people like us that venture forth into the malodorous backwaters of the unmoderated usenet need to be on our toes for *anything*, and that maybe this is *not* a good place for the squeamish and children, someone has posted a nekkid .jpg in the fishing pictures group.   Someday, the usenet will sport a web-page like rating system, but until then, please consider the neighborhood you are driving into… Just a warning… TimW Of course, one could argue that this is a pic showing the source of fly tying materials for the "Hairy Mary".

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Question:

Hi there, Anyone have advice on driftboats?  We live in Seattle and can’t help but slobber at the parade of drift dories you see on the rivers around here.  From what I’ve been able to gather, it seems 16 feet is a good all around size but what about materials?  Wood, aluminum or fiberglass?  Wood seems to be making a comeback. Can fiberglass be durable enough? Hmmm. What about necessary gizmos and accessories? Help!

Darren Wooden driftboats can be very nice.  Can last a long time if you take care of them.  But they do take more maintenance than a glass or aluminum boat. Wood boats arn’t cheap if you buy a new one.  Some of the used ones can be pretty junky.   Jim

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Mr Gehrke, is this you speaking or the imposter? how do we know? (I thought you resigned from this group.)   BWalter – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jim.  If you’re going to do it . . . do it right!  Spend the money.  Its cheap enough entertainment as it is.  Beats hanging around in the bars. Trust me. George Gehrke Mr. Gink

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there, Anyone have advice on driftboats?  We live in Seattle and can’t help but slobber at the parade of drift dories you see on the rivers around here.  From what I’ve been able to gather, it seems 16 feet is a good all around size but what about materials?  Wood, aluminum or fiberglass?  Wood seems to be making a comeback. Can fiberglass be durable enough? Hmmm. What about necessary gizmos and accessories? Help! Darren Wooden driftboats can be very nice.  Can last a long time if you take care of them.  But they do take more maintenance than a glass or aluminum boat. Wood boats arn’t cheap if you buy a new one.  Some of the used ones can be pretty junky. Jim

JIM tells you correct.  Wood boats are higher in maintenance but are also heavier to handle around the trailer. Fiberglass with a Jell-Coated Bottom such as a Don Hill will last you the rest of your life.  Metal boats (aluminum) are noisy and cold and hang up on rocks with a vengence.  Don’t ever commit to an aluminum drift boat.  BIG mistake!  All day in a cold river and your feet will be talking too you.  16 feet is exactly the best size as it floats shallower than a 14 footer and you can haul more and/or you don’t have to work as hard holding an oared position while you cast. Remember, overall a McKenzie Drift Boat Design is a two person operation.  One rows and one fishes.  You can go alone but it will be anchor and fish or dead drift and fish.  It works but not as efficiently with any boat. Don Hill (Springfield Or PH: 541-747-7430) Drift Boats are strong and have all the design features you need.  They have a very nice front casting deck with stripping line area and hip brace recess so you can stand without fear of falling.  You will have GOBS of storage and plent of storage space and even a large floor area for extra coolers and gear. You will want a quick release anchoring system and of course lead anchors, which I sometimes make special for friends at only a dollar a pound plus shipping.  You will want two anchors.  One for front and rear. You will need rope, and three oars.  (A backup or spare)  You will need to buy a trailer.  Don Hill does it all.  If you call him, say hello for me. I’ve owned one of his boats for over ten years now.  It has seen the wars on volcano rock rivers, boulders, and gravel bars.  It is the kind of boat I have put my life at stake in and it has always come through. If you have never shot "The Narrows" on the No-Name River here with me . . . you won’t know what I mean.  Ray Baker has owned a lot of drift boats in his guiding career and a Don Hill  boat had always been high on his list. There are other McKenzie Brand of Drift Boats but dollar for dollar, a Hill boat will serve you well.  They take a lot of abuse. When just starting out in this arena of fly fishing or fishing, you will need to spend some bucks to set yourself up right . . . because if you don’t, where a drift boat will take you . . . and you WILL GO THERE NOW, you will be glad you did.  Remember to have life-vests for everyone aboard and never have them hidden away. Hang your wooden oars vertically off some wall with none of it standing on the floor so your oars don’t ever take a warp or bend.  Never store your oars horizonally, anywhere.  Always hang them up. This is all the advise I have for now.  I’ve been drift boat fishing all my life.  I think you can count on what I offer here with confidence. It is also the safest kind of boat to own for the family and they are very stable.  Whatever you do, do NOT purchase a Clackacraft as you will be sorry in a number of ways.  Cheap is not the way to go in this arena Jim.  If you’re going to do it . . . do it right!  Spend the money.  Its cheap enough entertainment as it is.  Beats hanging around in the bars. Trust me. George Gehrke Mr. Gink

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Fiberglass is plenty durable for all but the roughest conditions.  I have a glass reinforced wood boat, which serves me well in the lower reaches of puget sound rivers, but I wouldn’t use it in rougher waters. I’ve had wood and fiberglass.  Fiberglas is much easier to care for, but wood is much cooler.  Especially if you build it yourself.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi there, Anyone have advice on driftboats?  We live in Seattle and can’t help but slobber at the parade of drift dories you see on the rivers around here.  From what I’ve been able to gather, it seems 16 feet is a good all around size but what about materials?  Wood, aluminum or fiberglass?  Wood seems to be making a comeback. Can fiberglass be durable enough? Hmmm. What about necessary gizmos and accessories? Help! Hi Darren I own a wood drift boat.  They are beautiful but do take a bit of extra maintenance.  Fiber glass is very good and I personally think the Hyde drift boat is top of the line.  You can contact those people at 208-529-4343. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Hi there, Anyone have advice on driftboats?  We live in Seattle and can’t help but slobber at the parade of drift dories you see on the rivers around here.  From what I’ve been able to gather, it seems 16 feet is a good all around size but what about materials?  Wood, aluminum or fiberglass?  Wood seems to be making a comeback. Can fiberglass be durable enough? Hmmm. What about necessary gizmos and accessories? Help!

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Can fiberglass be durable enough?

Hi Darren, Don’t know much about driftboats but I was on the Yakima with a guide recently in a Lavro driftboat (fiberglass).  I asked him about durability and he said Lavro (they’re in Monroe, I think) guarantees the hull for life for recreational users and 5 years for guides.  His is still in good shape after 6 years. I don’t know any more about them, though. BTW, no affiliation with Lavro. If you become expert on the subject I’d be interested in your findings. If my wife knew I was even THINKING about spending big dough on some 16 foot garage monster. . .<g Good Luck, August Kristoferson Watercolor Fish Art http://www.eskimo.com/~augustk

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Hi there, Anyone have advice on driftboats?  We live in Seattle and can’t help but slobber at the parade of drift dories you see on the rivers around here.  From what I’ve been able to gather, it seems 16 feet is a good all around size but what about materials?  Wood, aluminum or fiberglass?  Wood seems to be making a comeback. Can fiberglass be durable enough? Hmmm. What about necessary gizmos and accessories? Help!

In my area in southwest Montana,  I’d have to say that the 15-16′ fiberglass drift boat is the most popular.  However, from what I know of the river’s in your area on the west coast, I’d consider aluminum.  Wood is nice, quiet, and warm, but the upkeep is high. Don’t think fiberglass is durable enough for your coastal rivers.  As far as the gizmos go, I’d suggest anchor system and plenty of watertight storage.  Seat configuration is different on the coast, I think.  I’d try and talk to a couple of guides in the area who aren’t selling a line of boats.  Good luck! — Dave Kumlien Montana Troutfitters 1716 W. Main St., Bozeman, MT 59715 http://www.gomontana.com/Business/Trout/trout.html http://www.ffa.com/montana/montanatroutfitters.html

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Hi there, Anyone have advice on driftboats?

snip Hey Darren- 16 ft drift boats give you a little more room, but turn slower than a 15′. I have a Alumaweld 15′ that has been around since Jesus was in high school!  I am very happy with mine.  After a day on the river, I just tip it up and run a hose over it for a couple of minutes.  I could not tell you the difference in "stickiness" on rocks as compared with a glass boat, but I have not had any problems.  I would think that Aluminum has to be stronger than fiberglass when your bouncing off the rocks MTCW. Hope this helps — Keep their Heads Up! Bob Crossley Tillamook Country Smoker, Inc.

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Hi there, Anyone have advice on driftboats?  We live in Seattle and can’t help but slobber at the parade of drift dories you see on the rivers around here.  From what I’ve been able to gather, it seems 16 feet is a good all around size but what about materials?  Wood, aluminum or fiberglass?  Wood seems to be making a comeback. Can fiberglass be durable enough? Hmmm. What about necessary gizmos and accessories? Help!

Hi Darren I own a wood drift boat.  They are beautiful but do take a bit of extra maintenance.  Fiber glass is very good and I personally think the Hyde drift boat is top of the line.  You can contact those people at 208-529-4343. — Tight Lines Al Beatty BT’s Fly Fishing Products Bozeman, MT (97 catalog) http://www.flyshop.com/Expo/Specialty/BTsPdcts/index.html

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Question:

Salmom are running, but if fly fishing is your thing check out the Salmon River which is not too far from you or the Scott River also.

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– My wife made reservations for a family vacation on the Klamath near Happy Camp. I am a beginner at flyfishing who is trying to get his teenage son interested. From what I read about the area, early July is not the time to fish the Klamath. It seems to be a Fall/Spring steelhead river. Is there flyfishing there in July? Which of the many feeder streams might be a good bet? Not only would I be gratful to catch and release a few fish but it might turm my son on to a positive experience. Thanks! Feel free to respond by e-mail.

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