Question:

Took the little lady out of school today to see Harry Potter (you are only young once). Saw the first showing in town.  Wasn’t bad, a good kids movie. They did however show the trailers for Lord of the Rings….looks good. Real good….may have to dust off an old brownie recipe and pretend I’m in college again….read ‘em in college don’t you know….(yup, got me an eddycation) john

Response:

Check out the scenery.. it was shot in New Zealand by a New Zealand director.. "Lord of the rings" fever has struck some parts LOL. Clark

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Took the little lady out of school today to see Harry Potter (you are only young once). Saw the first showing in town.  Wasn’t bad, a good kids movie. They did however show the trailers for Lord of the Rings….looks good. Real good….may have to dust off an old brownie recipe and pretend I’m in college again….read ‘em in college don’t you know….(yup, got me an eddycation) john

Response:

Check out the scenery.. it was shot in New Zealand by a New Zealand director.. "Lord of the rings" fever has struck some parts LOL. Clark

Hell, you’ve picked up on a Canadian national sport – spotting the Montreal, Toronto, or Vancouver street landmarks in "NY street scene" movies.  (X-files is/was shot in Vancouver, for example.) Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://home.cogeco.ca/~pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

They did however show the trailers for Lord of the Rings….looks good. Real good….may have to dust off an old brownie recipe and pretend I’m in college again….read ‘em in college don’t you know

I have to admit I’m really looking forward to that one.  It appears pretty well done.  Rereading "Fellowship" right now  Gollum snatched his fish by hand you know, and ate ‘em raw…

Response:

Gollum snatched his fish by hand you know, and ate ‘em raw…

Unethical!!!! George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

Response:

They did however show the trailers for Lord of the Rings….looks good. Real good….

Blesssss us and splasssh us, me precioussssessss…we can hardly wait. Counting the days till this release.  I’ve been waiting years for someone to do a worthy version. BTW, saw David Mamet’s new one "Heist" tonight.  Strongly recommend to all fans of his writing.  He gives Devito has a phone conversation that almost rivals the "fucking Ruthie…" speech from "American Buffalo". Zippy Who can’t imagine the size of the checking accounts of the Harry Potter owner’s after this weekend.

Response:

Took the little lady out of school today to see Harry Potter (you are only young once). Saw the first showing in town.  Wasn’t bad, a good kids movie.

Saw it this afternoon and thoroughly enjoyed it.  Still like the books better though. They did however show the trailers for Lord of the Rings….looks good. Real good….may have to dust off an old brownie recipe and pretend I’m in college again….read ‘em in college don’t you know….(yup, got me an eddycation)

This one has me worried.  Hard to imagine anyone doing justice to the books. Wolfgang

Response:

They did however show the trailers for Lord of the Rings….looks good. Real good….may have to dust off an old brownie recipe and pretend I’m in college again….read ‘em in college don’t you know….(yup, got me an eddycation) This one has me worried.  Hard to imagine anyone doing justice to the books. Wolfgang

It has to be better than the Bakshi rotoscoped abortion, or the cutesy Rankin and Bass animations. From the trailers I’ve seen and the production photos on the web site, it looks like they are doing a  great job.  Shooting in NZ was a great idea – the mountains really look like the Misty Mountains.  They are doing all three books – "The Two Towers" next year and "Return of the King" in 2003, so at least they’re going to follow the story sequence at the grossest level.  Obviously they have to do a lot of story compression to meet the movie time limitations, but the word from the fan sites is that they are making a good attempt at completeness.  They did omit Tom Bombadil though – I liked the idea of a hippy living in the woods of Middle Earth. I went to see Harry Potter last night.  The visualizations were excellent – it was eerie how well the film matched the picture in my head.  Hagrid was perfect.  The only complaint I have is the movie’s pacing.  It was very episodic – which in retrospect is very like the book.  That’s the big difference between the media I guess – chapterization works well in book format, but you expect a movie to flow better.  They did manage to fit in most of the content of the book into the 2.5 hours.  My youngest son refused to go because he didn’t want to mess up the pictures in his imagination (he’s still reading book 3). –Stan (looking forward to getting my Gandalf soda flask at Burger King)

Response:

 I read it instead of studying for my first semester  freshman year finals.  Still managed to pass  everything ok, but it was all down hill from there.  I was dreading the movie: I didn’t want my images  of the story destroyed.

It’s interesting to hear how many people feel this way.  I just asked a question on a Tolkien newsgroup.  I can’t believe how many people are totally into the intricate details of that story and history, and how many people are upset that such a "holy" book is being put on film.

Response:

They did omit Tom Bombadil though – I liked the idea of a hippy living in the woods of Middle Earth.

Willi Bombadil – Master of Whitheywindle trout!

Response:

The best course of action is to first see the movie and THEN read the book. That way, you don’t have to work so hard to make up the imagery.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s interesting to hear how many people feel this way.  I just asked a question on a Tolkien newsgroup.  I can’t believe how many people are totally into the intricate details of that story and history, and how many people are upset that such a "holy" book is being put on film.  For me, it’s not that the book is somehow "holy" but that it  is a fantasy tale, I created pretty strong images of the fantasy  when I read the books, and I know that they will be erased  if I see the movie: I can’t make the images coexist.  I have  felt the same way about other books & movies based on them,  though I do feel stronger about this one.

It’s a common enough feeling.  And, of course, there is nothing holy about The Lord of the Rings.  However, Tolkien was blessed with a rare ability to create a believable (I was about to delete that word and replace it with "plausible" but have decide to let it stand) world and evoke very powerful images of what that world must look like.  Add to this the well known fact that a two hour long film can virtually never do justice to a book with which a reader lives for days or weeks, even under the best of circumstances, and it’s easy enough to see why many a fan would be wary.  And then too, many readers, like myself, were introduced to Tolkien at a relatively young age.  The images brought forth (and they are VERY powerful ones) have had time to seep deep into the consciousness.  Rereadings in later life will doubtless alter those images, but not radically.  More likely, they will simply reinforce them.  Not a thing to be tampered with lightly. Wolfgang who will go to see the movie but will NOT promise to like it.

Response:

snip< I was also wondering what this has to do with Fly Fishing. Looks like a hanging curve ball, out over the plate…..   Batter up.

That post can’t be for real. I mean I know pinheads like that exist but telling folks to read their Bible on ROFF ? I suspect an rdean spoof. — Ken Fortenberry

Response:

Funny thing I never take my kids out of school to subject them to a movie that is made to seem alright for kids. It involves sorcery and black magic. Do you think this is the kind of things kids should be watching. Oh it seems harmless as a movie but that is exactly the way they want it to be. Thats what draws kids in and seems interesting to them. It is apparent that you do not think much about where you will go after you leave this world. If I were you I would look into my Bible, If not for yourself do it for your children. I don’t mean to bust your chops so much but this is not the type of thing to take your kids to see. I was also wondering what this has to do with Fly Fishing. Since this is a Fly Fishing newsgroup anyway.

I personally wouldn’t take kids out of school to see any movie, but any action that pisses off the thumpers can’t be all bad.  Way to go John.  :-) Get a life "Maw".      - Ken

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I’d rather see a movie version of "Bored of the Rings", actually. I’ll stick with the books for the ‘real thing’. — Charlie…

One can hope.  Given the success of parody movies like "Scary Movie", if the first LOTR movie is successful, a "National Lampoon’s: Bored of the Rings" might just happen. I lost my copy of BOTR many years ago, and a year ago I located a used copy on the Internet so my sons would not be deprived.  I found a few good links which have festered in my favorites folder since then.   Here’s a good one – this guy thought that the ending looked rushed, and so wrote an additional chapter to round it out.  For those folks who don’t or can’t have a full copy of BOTR, this might give you a taste for the full book. http://junior.apk.net/~drushel/b_scour.html –Stan

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I lost my copy of BOTR many years ago, and a year ago I located a used copy on the Internet so my sons would not be deprived.  

Thanks for the link. I still have my original paperback but it’s pretty tattered. I found a decent copy in a used book store in San Rafael when I was in CA a few years ago (along with some of Gamov’s Mr. Tompkins books – it was a pretty good bookstore) and have passed it along to my sons as well. — Charlie…

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(along with some of Gamov’s Mr. Tompkins books – it was a pretty good

bookstore) And I learn something new every day.  I had never heard of these, so I googled Mr. Tompkins.  I suppose those books had just lost their utility by the 60s – there was a lot more popularization of math and physics by then and I grew up on Asimov and Martin Gardner.

Response:

Funny thing I never take my kids out of school to subject them to a movie that is made to seem alright for kids. It involves sorcery and black magic. Do you think this is the kind of things kids should be watching. Oh it seems harmless as a movie but that is exactly the way they want it to be. Thats what draws kids in and seems interesting to them. It is apparent that you do not think much about where you will go after you leave this world. If I were you I would look into my Bible, If not for yourself do it for your children. I don’t mean to bust your chops so much but this is not the type of thing to take your kids to see. I was also wondering what this has to do with Fly Fishing. Since this is a Fly Fishing newsgroup anyway.

Response:

snip< I was also wondering what this has to do with Fly Fishing. Since this is a Fly Fishing newsgroup anyway.

Looks like a hanging curve ball, out over the plate…..   Batter up. Joe F.

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And I learn something new every day.  I had never heard of these, so I googled Mr. Tompkins.  I suppose those books had just lost their utility by the 60s – there was a lot more popularization of math and physics by then and I grew up on Asimov and Martin Gardner.

I read them first, I think, in my early teens and re-encountered them in the late ’60s/earky ’70s in grad school. My research advisor had some and I thought it was pretty interesting to re-read them. — Charlie…

Response:

(along with some of Gamov’s Mr. Tompkins books – it was a pretty good bookstore) And I learn something new every day.  I had never heard of these, so I googled Mr. Tompkins.  I suppose those books had just lost their utility by the 60s – there was a lot more popularization of math and physics by then and I grew up on Asimov and Martin Gardner.

If I’m not mistaken, George Gamow was the guy who coined the word "google" (10^100) and googleplex (10^google). Now it’s a verb.

Response:

Funny thing I never take my kids out of school to subject them to a movie that is made to seem alright for kids. It involves sorcery and black magic. Do you think this is the kind of things kids should be watching. Oh it seems harmless as a movie but that is exactly the way they want it to be. Thats what draws kids in and seems interesting to them. It is apparent that you do not think much about where you will go after you leave this world. If I were you I would look into my Bible, If not for yourself do it for your children.

Right. The Bible is where you’ll find the really serious sorcery and black magic.

Response:

Rereadings in later life will doubtless alter those images, but not radically.  More likely, they will simply reinforce them.  Not a thing to be tampered with lightly.

Looks like you’ve started a manic phase, Wolfgang.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  I read it instead of studying for my first semester  freshman year finals.  Still managed to pass  everything ok, but it was all down hill from there.  I was dreading the movie: I didn’t want my images  of the story destroyed. It’s interesting to hear how many people feel this way.  I just asked a question on a Tolkien newsgroup.  I can’t believe how many people are totally into the intricate details of that story and history, and how many people are upset that such a "holy" book is being put on film.

People can get pretty obscessive about the Tolkien books. When I went to college back in the the Eocene I was into the books  in a big way. Went to a meeting of the "Tolkien Society" or some such name. There were some seriously disturbed individuals there. Some had adopted names and personas from the books and kept them while living in the outside world. You would see "Strider" stalking about campus in his cape and if you dared to call him his real name you would be viciously ignored. "Galadriel" would flounce around the library in her elvish garb. Actually, they fit in pretty well with Madison circa 1971. G.Cleveland

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We were in the dorm playing the Hobbitt and I was into watching the fire trails of the flaming bolts of lightning  produced by the big kitchen matches  that I, as Gandalf, sent coursing over the heads of the trolls and demons who were pounding at the shower curtain door of my house when I caught the towels on fire….what a trip. john

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Question:

Hi,  whats a good fly for stocked rainbow trout in a small lake about 15 feet deep? I’d appreciate any info I can get.  Thanx.

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Where would i find some information on this fly at? do you have a picture of it?  Thanx.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,  whats a good fly for stocked rainbow trout in a small lake about 15 feet deep? I’d appreciate any info I can get.  Thanx. Niblet Fly ought to do it…

Response:

Hi,  whats a good fly for stocked rainbow trout in a small lake about 15 feet deep? I’d appreciate any info I can get.  Thanx.

Niblet Fly ought to do it…

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are you fishing the surface or subsurface, I like to use floatant on hares ear nymphs and strip it in the surface film  or use beadheads subsurface. Good dry’s are ones that can be skimmed over the surface without sinking or twisting the line, caddis drys are good as are renagades. Bushy wulffs are great for sight and for trout that will pounce on whatever they see. Wolly buggers are a favorite for many, I would use small patterns w/ black being a common color. Many use a bushy dry fly w/ a small nymph dropper usually a midge larva or or smalll beadhead 16-20.  this can be real fun the fish may be attracted by the dry but hit the dropper, just use a foot or two of 5 or 6x tippet and thie it directly to the bend of the bushy dry patterns hook, just make sure you check for breaking stregnth. The dry is a strike indicator for the nymph but this will tell you just how active the fish are toward big drys. If you get no hits on the dry change it if none on the nymph change that it can take out some of the problem solving on what they want because lets face it stockers can be fussy too.  : ]        

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Niblet Fly ought to do it…

ROFLOL! bc.

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aka the Golden Terrestrial. Steve Zimmerman

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi,  whats a good fly for stocked rainbow trout in a small lake about 15 feet deep? I’d appreciate any info I can get.  Thanx. Niblet Fly ought to do it…

Response:

For your question of what type of fly to use ( stocked trout ), I have  had the best luck using a bead head caddis    -**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?a ****-  Search and Read Usenet Discussions in your Browser – FREE –

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Question:

______  Is active and getting repaired. We are having wonderful discussions around the camp site.  Some are snoring away in their tents. — Mr. G.   ‘all’s fair with fur or feather’ http://216.55.26.157/vchat/   http://www.gink.com http://www.rodbuilding.com (Bamboo Is Fun) http://www.xink.com 509-243-4100 or 5500

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     If a flyfisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) , and a spin fisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) both released a trout under the same conditions . Which trout would have a better chance of surviving ? I say it would be the one released by the spin fisherman , because the fly fisherman would probably be using lighter leader , and would have to fight the fish longer and harder . Al Strucke This is possible though there is evidence the reverse is true: mortality is higher if the fish are forced to struggle violently without respite. Consider an analogy; you ask two people to a mile. One is asked to do it in one run as fast as they can go – the other must also run fast but can slow their pace or rest for a short period every quarter of a mile. Which runner has the greater probability of dying from the run? A simlar siutation was found with chinook slamon where high mortality was found where the fish were caught on commercial trolling tackle (no pun intended) – the fish struggled violently for a brief period before being tagged and released. Mortality approached 50%. Fish caught using conventional sport tackle have proven to have much lower mortality. It was surmized that the cause was the intense exertion of the commercial caught fish caused high levels of lactic acid and higher mortality while the sport caught fish a lower level of lactic acid in the blood. I also wonder why it has to be assumed flyfishers will use lighter leaders etc. They shouldn’t. Ralph H

The issue about lactic acid is muddy.  I think it was a fellow named Black in 1955 who was among the first to report that increases in blood lactates were observed after playing fish to exhaustion.  Some other fish researchers (e.g., Wydoski in "Relation of Hooking Mortality and Subleathal hooking Stress to Quality Fishery Management" noted the same increases in blood lactates, but it is not clear that these contribute to increased mortality. It is clear that these lactates result in increased blood acidosis and this contributes to an imbalance of body fluids that under some conditions may contribute to mortality.  Wood, Turner, and Graham (1983) "Why do fish die after severe exercise" (in J. Fish Biology 22) conducted experiments with — I think it was cutthroat trout — and observed increased acidosis after severe exercise, but they concluded that  this was an "unlikely" cause of mortality.  They suggest that other metabolic processes may be the cause of death, but these remain to be discovered.  Conditions such as water temperature are also significant factors as are species differences.  The work done on trout does not necessarily apply to bass or vice versa since different species definitely show different vulnerabilities to mortality. Anyway, without getting lost in the details, it seems the important point is: why fish die is not as simple to explain as we would like it to be and we all have lots of myths and lore about it that may or may not be supported by fish science, which itself has lots of contradictory research about any one topic. JR

Response:

Greetings: I am one of a rare breed that avidly fishes flies and spinners. In my opinion, which, by the way, is generally wrong: More than anything, depends on how the fish was hooked, which depends on how the lure was fished. A spinning rig tends to keep the line tight, and the hooks, as a result, are in the outer mouth. Same with a fly rig, if it is being fished properly. However, I see a lot of fly fishermen using wet flies with no strike indicator. Hence, the fish will swallow the fly. I don’t know if it’s a penis thing, or what, that keeps seemingly reasonable people from using a strike indicator. I use a yarn indicator, and hook fish I could never detect by watching the line alone. Live bait fisherman who don’t plan on keeping their catch should be shot at sunrise. Same for those who do plan on keeping their catch, but for a different reason. No, wait, that would be 2 reasons. 1) Drowning innocent bait, 2) Not releasing their catch. Needless to say (which is why I’m saying it), if you want to eat fish, go to the local grocery and buy it, instead of eating a wild treasure. Unless you’re camping in the wild. Man, I am in way over my head, which is a really bad thing if you are wading. I’m stopping now. MDC "I plan to live forever… so far, so good."

    If a flyfisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) , and a spin fisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) both released a trout under the same conditions . Which trout would have a better chance of surviving ? I say it would be the one released by the spin fisherman , because the fly fisherman would probably be using lighter leader , and would have to fight the fish longer and harder . Al Strucke

Response:

More than anything, depends on how the fish was hooked,

The most important variable in the mortality rate of C&R fish is water temp. The warmer the water, the more likely the fish goes belly up after being caught and released. Of course, the original question said assume all variables the same except fly or lure. — Ken Fortenberry

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(snipped) <<Man, I am in way over my head, which is a really bad thing if you are wading. I’m stopping now. Oh, Lordy, Lordy, Lordy.  I am roasting my marshmallows from here, the flames are so big.  Stand by, MDC.  I’ll give you a hint ——- asbestos! Dave LaCourse

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To original Poster If you spin fish and you really like fishing, you will LOVE fly fishing. You will catch more fish, make more money, be more attractive to women and your car will always start. Dave Snedeker

Dave, sound like  you’ve been playing country- western records backwards again. Big Al

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If you want to pluck the low-lying fruit of flaming self-deprecating humor, be my guest. Yawn… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (snipped) <<Man, I am in way over my head, which is a really bad thing if you are wading. I’m stopping now. Oh, Lordy, Lordy, Lordy.  I am roasting my marshmallows from here, the flames are so big.  Stand by, MDC.  I’ll give you a hint ——- asbestos! Dave LaCourse

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If you spin fish and you really like fishing, you will LOVE fly fishing. You will catch more fish, make more money, be more attractive to women and your car will always start. Dave Snedeker

It’s true, now that I fly fish, my car always starts. m&m – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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To original Poster A person could argue this forever. Best answer? Try both yourself. See what you learn. I spin fished in the ’50s. The trebles tear the shit out of trout, mostly kill them. People spin fish because its easy and mindless. When its bitter cold its hard to argue against it. But the fact is that if a monkey could be taught to cast the dam thing he’d catch about as much as a human spin fisher. No offence ment, but its a proven fact thats been surpressed by the government since 1949. Spinning is the more effective technique if you need to throw a baitfish imitation way the hell out in the surf. Thats about it. Spinning is inferior to the fly rod for delivering anything other than a baitfish initation or a gob or worms or a dead chunk of something, at long distances. Problem is that fish eat a lot more than baitfish. If you spin fish and you really like fishing, you will LOVE fly fishing. You will catch more fish, make more money, be more attractive to women and your car will always start. Dave Snedeker

Response:

    If a flyfisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) , and a spin fisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) both released a trout under the same conditions . Which trout would have a better chance of surviving ? I say it would be the one released by the spin fisherman , because the fly fisherman would probably be using lighter leader , and would have to fight the fish longer and harder . Al Strucke

Probably true if it weren’t that spin fishermen use treble hooks.                                                                John Popp

Response:

    If a flyfisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) , and a spin fisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) both released a trout under the same conditions . Which trout would have a better chance of surviving ? I say it would be the one released by the spin fisherman , because the fly fisherman would probably be using lighter leader , and would have to fight the fish longer and harder . Al Strucke

This is possible though there is evidence the reverse is true: mortality is higher if the fish are forced to struggle violently without respite. Consider an analogy; you ask two people to a mile. One is asked to do it in one run as fast as they can go – the other must also run fast but can slow their pace or rest for a short period every quarter of a mile. Which runner has the greater probability of dying from the run? A simlar siutation was found with chinook slamon where high mortality was found where the fish were caught on commercial trolling tackle (no pun intended) – the fish struggled violently for a brief period before being tagged and released. Mortality approached 50%. Fish caught using conventional sport tackle have proven to have much lower mortality. It was surmized that the cause was the intense exertion of the commercial caught fish caused high levels of lactic acid and higher mortality while the sport caught fish a lower level of lactic acid in the blood. I also wonder why it has to be assumed flyfishers will use lighter leaders etc. They shouldn’t. Ralph H

Response:

<< If a flyfisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) , and a spin fisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) both released a trout under the same conditions . Which trout would have a better chance of surviving ? I say it would be the one released by the spin fisherman , because the fly fisherman would probably be using lighter leader , and would have to fight the fish longer and harder . Al Strucke Is this a troll?  Maybe not.  Lee Wulff says a minute/pound.  There is no reason the fly fisherman should take *that* much longer than the spin fisherman.  You neglect to say what kind of "lure" the spin guy is using.  If it’s bait of any kind, it could be a deep-down-the-gullet hook-up, in which case the fish probably won’t live.  If it is a treble hook  and more than one of the hooks sets up, there could be more damage (prepare for incoming flames!).  I’ll go with the fly rod and a fly doing the less damage. Dave LaCourse

Response:

Maybe you can clarify a couple of points before an informed answer can be given.  Hook size (the larger the hook the greater the potential problems for the fish).  Hook type (treble hooks under some conditions seem to cause more problems than non-treble hooks, although some studies show this is not always the case), barbed or barbless (again, some studies show barbed hooks have no more mortality than barbless, but other studies show the reverse), and place of hooking (deeper hooks cause more problems of after-release mortality).  Also, although there is some data to indicate that playing fish longer contributes to increased mortality, there is other work that does not support the assumption that fighting fish longer causes more mortality. There are data to show that keeping fish out of the water longer than 30 seconds adds to the stress of fighting and does contribute to increased mortality.  I don’t think it is as simple as gear type.

    If a flyfisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) , and a spin fisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) both released a trout under the same conditions . Which trout would have a better chance of surviving ? I say it would be the one released by the spin fisherman , because the fly fisherman would probably be using lighter leader , and would have to fight the fish longer and harder . Al Strucke

Response:

ff tend to use small barbless hooks, size 14, 16, 18, 22, 24, most fish are hooked in the jaw. Deep hooking with large hooks (often treble hoods) can damage internal organs as can rough handling. A large trout yanked out of the water can suffer damage due to lack of support from the water. Using proper catch and release methods a tired fish can be revived. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –     If a flyfisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) , and a spin fisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) both released a trout under the same conditions . Which trout would have a better chance of surviving ? I say it would be the one released by the spin fisherman , because the fly fisherman would probably be using lighter leader , and would have to fight the fish longer and harder . Al Strucke

Response:

    If a flyfisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) , and a spin fisherman ( who is a good sportsman ) both released a trout under the same conditions . Which trout would have a better chance of surviving ? I say it would be the one released by the spin fisherman , because the fly fisherman would probably be using lighter leader , and would have to fight the fish longer and harder . Al Strucke

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Question:

    Don’t listen to Moe. Take your wife/girlfriend with you and try all the rods you can over a period of 3 wks and keep asking "wada you think about this one". At the end of this time she will (1)suggest you buy it if you like it. (2) Buy the one you seemed to like the most for you. or (3) Inform you she doesn’t give a damn, just buy one and leave her alone.

Funny. That’s the tactic my wife uses on me for shoes. — something bogus to avoid spam)

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You know what Thomas’ last name is don’t you?…..Winston!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –         close your eyes and begin saying "thomas & thomas" over and over and over again.  the only new rod you’ll ever need.         a. wayne harrison, totally subjective t&t freak.

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So why do you like them so much? Mark Faulkner A upgrade in rod would do the most good probally but have you checked out the loop reels. They are amazing!  Check out there site at http://www.looptackle.se/

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 Or I’ll just go down, buy it park it in the drive and tell her it followed me home, can I keep it, huh can I ?                                                           John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl.

John – tried that once – doesn’t work. Mark Faulkner

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Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. Stew

Hi Stew, The rod upgrade will make the most difference in your fishing.  I’d suggest looking at rods in the $250 price range such as the Orvis Silver Label.  I especially like the Silver Label TL’s, but rod choice is very personal.  You need to cast as many rods in this price range as you can get your hands on to see what suits you best (half the fun of buying a new rod). Most major manufacturers have rods in this price range and that is where you get the most performance for the money.  The top of the line rods usually offer additional performance but at a much greater price.   If you were already at the mid-price level, I’d probably be recommending the reel upgrade instead.  The rod upgrade pays off everytime you cast it.  The reel upgrade pays off when you hook a fish that you have to (get to) play off the reel.                        Hope this helps,                             Dan Dan Gracia Orvis

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Another suggestion is to look at a previously owned rod.  This way you could take a big jump.  I agree with upgrading the rod first, and I too like Orvis Silver Labels.  I own one along with several other rods.   Consider talking with

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I am waiting for my rod to be repaired (4th time) and fishing with my backup.  Your reel seldom breaks, so if you can only get one, get another rod so you can have a spare.  -Better yet, get another combo.

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I have only broken one rod in fifty years of flyfishing.  I have seven rods, four fiberglass two graphite and one bamboo.  I made most of them from blanks because I wanted to see the difference in various manufacturers.  You should have a backup rod in case something happens to one.  A friend of mine took two rods on a horse pack trip in plastic cases.  The packer packed them together on the side of the pack and the horse broke them both, so watch your rods closely or you may not get to fish when you get there. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am waiting for my rod to be repaired (4th time) and fishing with my backup.  Your reel seldom breaks, so if you can only get one, get another rod so you can have a spare.  -Better yet, get another combo.

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Okay y’all are giving me some good ideas here now ….so what is there to making a rod from a blank? Does it really ssave like when I make my own golf clubs? Where does a person buy blanks and the associated stuff from? Stew – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have only broken one rod in fifty years of flyfishing.  I have seven rods, four fiberglass two graphite and one bamboo.  I made most of them from blanks because I wanted to see the difference in various manufacturers.  You should have a backup rod in case something happens to one.  A friend of mine took two rods on a horse pack trip in plastic cases.  The packer packed them together on the side of the pack and the horse broke them both, so watch your rods closely or you may not get to fish when you get there. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh I am waiting for my rod to be repaired (4th time) and fishing with my backup.  Your reel seldom breaks, so if you can only get one, get another rod so you can have a spare.  -Better yet, get another combo.

– #  D. Stew McLeod … working at The Boeing Company .. in Renton, WA. #"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; # an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." #    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. Stew — #  D. Stew McLeod … working at The Boeing Company .. in Renton, WA. #"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; # an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." #    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Hi Stew, There are lots of great fly rods around $200. Most anglers are fishing 9′ #5 line rods for trout. Sage DS, Scott Alpha & Voyager, Loomis GL2 & 3, T&T Emerger are all great values.  These are the entry level rods from the top fly rod manufacturers. Your reel should be OK till it fails to work for you. Good fly lines are $30 to $50, so there is no excuse for not having the best. Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY www.kiene.com

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 Or I’ll just go down, buy it park it in the drive and tell her it followed me home, can I keep it, huh can I ?                                                           John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl. John – tried that once – doesn’t work. Mark Faulkner

Mark Let her choose the colour and you can get anything you want, (budgets and bank cooperation assuming.) Peter

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I don’t know about that Peter, he would look a little silly in a pink 4-wheel vehicle. — Ernie Harrison Remove NOSPAM to send E-Mail Selling my Fly Fishing Books Go to: http://users.ccnet.com/~emh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –  Or I’ll just go down, buy it park it in the drive and tell her it followed me home, can I keep it, huh can I ?                                                           John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl. John – tried that once – doesn’t work. Mark Faulkner Mark Let her choose the colour and you can get anything you want, (budgets and bank cooperation assuming.) Peter

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Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. Stew

 New reel!…at least with a light reel you’ll NOW be able to feel just what your rod is doing….how it’s action is…  Until you get a grip on the casting qualities of this rod (which the heavy Pfleuger is Masking!), you won’t know what you really will desire in an expensive rod….especially for a trout rod…..Steelhead, Stripers, Salmon…now the Reel plays a major part of the game…but still….the lighter is usually the better. $.02, steve d.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. Stew — #  D. Stew McLeod … working at The Boeing Company .. in Renton, WA. #"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; # an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." #    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

    Don’t listen to Moe. Take your wife/girlfriend with you and try all the rods you can over a period of 3 wks and keep asking "wada you think about this one". At the end of this time she will (1)suggest you buy it if you like it. (2) Buy the one you seemed to like the most for you. or (3) Inform you she doesn’t give a damn, just buy one and leave her alone.                                                            John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl.

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haha i have 2 loops, i love them!     — Nicholas J. Slodki

:A upgrade in rod would do the most good probally but have you checked ut the loop reels. They are amazing!  Check out there site at :http://www.looptackle.se/

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [deleted] I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. [deleted] I’d spend the money on a few "kitchen passes" myself (i.e. roses for the little lady, dinner perhaps). New rod won’t do you any good while your cleaning out the refrigerator. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

   Come now Tim, what wife wouldn’t want her hubby to replace his rod with one that has a bit more action ? Also your idea, if accepted on a large scale could cause serious world wide consequences: for instance I’m looking at getting rid of an old dodge slant 6 van (given up on it breaking down and junking it) and replaceing it with a dodge ram 1500 short bed quad cab v8 with tow package and all the goodys, that being the case candy stocks should take a huge rise and at least a couple hundred acres of flower fields will be denuded. Now that new vehicles are out and every one wants a new one, imagine the devistation. Nope I’ll just say something nice and while shes in shock STRIKE. (been married a long time). Or I’ll just go down, buy it park it in the drive and tell her it followed me home, can I keep it, huh can I ?                                                           John Popp                                                         in Sanford Fl.

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. Stew — #  D. Stew McLeod … working at The Boeing Company .. in Renton, WA. #"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; # an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." #    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

        close your eyes and begin saying "thomas & thomas" over and over and over again.  the only new rod you’ll ever need.         a. wayne harrison, totally subjective t&t freak. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

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D. Stewart McLeod wrote… I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment.

I don’t have any recommendations, but did want to say that as soon as I saw the "What To Upgrade" subject line, I couldn’t help but think of PC hardware and software upgrades. "When was the last release of Pfleuger, Pfleuger 71 or 94? I do know that Pfleuger 71 had to be upgraded with a Service Pack (a machined aluminum foot, sold separately, not available in the OEM releases of Pfleuger) so it could work with a Sage-96, or for that matter, any earlier release of Sage or Orvis. Speaking of Sage-96, why is it so much more expensive than say Sage-90?  At least it doesn’t take up more rod-tube space." Someone with far greater writing talents than me could have fun with this.  "If Microsoft Sold Fishing Gear" Thomas Gilg

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I’d also suggest upgrading a rod before a reel.  the manfacturere already mentioned are all good.  You might also look at the Thomas & Thomas emerger series.  These rods are priced approximately the same as the Discovery series from Sage and the entry level Loomis’. Tim also makes a good point.  "Kitchen passes" are always good to have. Have fun selecting a rod. Chris Brown – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. Stew — #  D. Stew McLeod … working at The Boeing Company .. in Renton, WA. #"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; # an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." #    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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A upgrade in rod would do the most good probally but have you checked out the loop reels. They are amazing!  Check out there site at http://www.looptackle.se/

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This is a no-brainer in my book, Stew – go for the rod, and have fun casting a bunch of different rods in making the selection. Mark Faulkner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. Stew — #  D. Stew McLeod … working at The Boeing Company .. in Renton, WA. #"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; # an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." #    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. Stew — #  D. Stew McLeod … working at The Boeing Company .. in Renton, WA. #"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; # an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." #    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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Steweart writes:

<<Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. Stew Stew, I would focus the money on the rod.  Unless you are into a lot of big trout, the reel simply holds your line for you.   While there is no denying a silky smooth reel is something to drool over, it isn’t necessary for most of us unless you are after steelhead, salmon, bonefish, BIG trout etc. Check out the St. Croix rods or the Reddington line for some nice upgrades.   You may also want to check out some of the rod/reel combo’s from Sage, Orvis and Loomis.  I know you can get a Sage Discovery with a reel, line and metal tube for around $265 or so.  I bought one years ago and still use it a lot. Mike

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[deleted] I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new rod or reel.

[deleted] I’d spend the money on a few "kitchen passes" myself (i.e. roses for the little lady, dinner perhaps). New rod won’t do you any good while your cleaning out the refrigerator. Your pal, — TimW, Halfordian Golfer "Guilt replaced the creel…"

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I’d say replace the rod.  Check out Orvis, Diamondback, Loomis or St. Croix. They make excellent rods ranging from $95-$500. — Nicholas J. Slodki

:Gents (and ladies ..:-) ) : :I have been fly fishing for the past two years and now I feel it is time :to upgrade my equipment. Don’t ask me why, I just feel I can benefit :from  "better" equipment. I currently own a  Pfleuger starter set which :my wife bought me a couple of Christmas’ ago. : :I guess my big question is, where would me money be better spent, a new :rod or reel. My gut tells me the rod is the place to build a solid :foundation around and look at a new reel down the rod. I fish for trout :in the streams and rivers of Washington State and occasionally back home :in Calgary Alberta., but again for trout. : :Stew : : :– :#  D. Stew McLeod … working at The Boeing Company .. in Renton, WA. :#"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; :# an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." :#    - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965) : : :

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Question:

I’m heading for Tahoe for a week at the end of September. I am a total beginner (one weekend class in Mass), and would love to hook up with a guide for a day somewhere in the area. I will have a car.  Any advice on guides, fishing outfitters, places I shouldn’t miss, etc.  would be very much appreciated. -Ruth

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I’m heading for Tahoe for a week at the end of September. I am a total beginner (one weekend class in Mass), and would love to hook up with a guide for a day somewhere in the area. I will have a car.  Any advice on guides, fishing outfitters, places I shouldn’t miss, etc.  would be very much appreciated. -Ruth

The Truckee river is at the north end of lake Tahoe. I would call the Reno Fly shop for a guide. South of lake Tahoe is the east Carson river. You might call the Fly Fishing and Outdoor Store at South Tahoe for a guide. If you need more info you can call us at 800/4000FLY Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento,CA,USA 800/4000FLY

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Question:

I believe the Vermont season opens in April

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I am planning a family trip to Killington Vermont the 24th of January for a skiing vacation. Unfortunately I am pre- paid and am experiencing back problems so I am uncertain as to how uncomfortable skiing will be. If it is too painful I may hang up the skis for the flyrod. Anyone have any suggestions for some unfrozen and productive streams in the Killington vicinity that would be worth checking out? Fly patterns and other pertinent information would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!

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The Massachusetts season is open all year.  You should be able to get to the Deerfield river or the Swift river within about an hour to an hour and a half from Killington.  Both are tailwater rivers with catch-and- release areas.  Fish small, slow and deep.   Tight Lines, Gerry Crow

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Question:

Hi, I went to the fly fishing course my instructor has taught me to keep the rod straight against my wrist during the entire motion.  He said to prevent RSI and have a smooth motion that won’t tire me out. I watched a video last night from Bass Pro Shops that said I should use my wrist to power the rod. My instructor was German, Who is it really done? Thanks John

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Hi, I went to the fly fishing course my instructor has taught me to keep the rod straight against my wrist during the entire motion.  He said to prevent RSI and have a smooth motion that won’t tire me out. I watched a video last night from Bass Pro Shops that said I should use my wrist to power the rod. My instructor was German, Who is it really done?

Hi John, Without getting into a lengthy discussion here, I might suggest that your casting instructor is correct. I would highly recommend Mel Krieger’s excellent video entitled "The Essence of Fly Casting" . In it, he explains the mechanics of fly casting in an easy to understand manner. I hope this helps,   Alan.   Alan Barnard   Kiene’s Fly Shop   Sacramento, California   WWW Fly Tyer   http://www.ns.net/~barnard

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Hi, I went to the fly fishing course my instructor has taught me to keep the rod straight against my wrist during the entire motion.  He said to prevent RSI and have a smooth motion that won’t tire me out. I watched a video last night from Bass Pro Shops that said I should use my wrist to power the rod. My instructor was German, Who is it really done? Thanks John

Hi Jon-    I would hope both your sources are correct. NO you should not lock the rod against the wrist during the entire casting motion.    I’m guessing he overemphasized the stiff wrist thing because he noted a tendency for you to use your wrist excessively. A lot of beginners use their wrist exclusively and others develop a real floppy wrist motion that blows any chance for a tight loop.    I have some friends from San Francisco with very limp wrists but they’re still excellent casters.    But then again, I’m Scotch.    -Ralph —

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: Hi, : I went to the fly fishing course my instructor has taught me to keep the : rod straight against my wrist during the entire motion.  He said to : prevent RSI and have a smooth motion that won’t tire me out. : I watched a video last night from Bass Pro Shops that said I should use : my wrist to power the rod. : My instructor was German, Who is it really done? There are many ways. I’ve seen a *lot* of different styles, but the best caster I know uses mainly forearm motion and a bit of wrist. What’s more important is adapting your casting motion to the weight of the rod and line. What *is* important is to avoid letting the wrist flex as you begin the forward stroke; keep it rigid at this point. Some novies tend to allow the wrist to flex, so while the arm starts moving, the tip of the rod remains motionless, and the line drops. Focus on the tip; concentrate on how the tip is moving through the air, not the butt where you’re holding the rod. Economy of motion and getting a feel for the rhythm of the rod and line are the keys to an efficent casting style. –mike

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I went to the fly fishing course my instructor has taught me to keep the rod straight against my wrist during the entire motion.  He said to prevent RSI and have a smooth motion that won’t tire me out. I watched a video last night from Bass Pro Shops that said I should use my wrist to power the rod. My instructor was German, Who is it really done? Thanks John   I have some friends from San Francisco with very limp wrists but they’re still excellent casters.

I *bet* you do, sailor. — John Fereira Isis Distributed Systems – Ithaca, NY

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Question:

Yes, me again!  In addition to the firefighter brother, another brother and my father both fly small planes.  So… I’m looking for designs related to flying, pilots, small planes (like Cessna 172), sea/floatplanes (like deHavilland Beaver or Cessna 172 floatplane), etc.  The more detail the better, but I’d like to hear about *any* design you know of.

I saw a bunch of these at the crosstitch store I now frequent. Also firefighter, fishing, etc. designs you requested in your earlier post.  So rest assured they do exist.  Unfortunately I will not be heading out there in the near future. THe designs ranged from extremely simple (it was a Piper or a Cessna plane — just a stick figure really) to more detailed pictures of fishing and a fireman’s prayer. Check out the latest CS&CC and Just XStitch magazines.  I think I saw the firefighter patterns in there. Lucinda

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: Yes, me again!  In addition to the firefighter brother, : another brother and my father both fly small planes.  So… : I’m looking for designs related to flying, pilots, small : planes (like Cessna 172), sea/floatplanes (like deHavilland : Beaver or Cessna 172 floatplane), etc.  The more detail the : better, but I’d like to hear about *any* design you know of. Barbara, Try A&L Designs, 225 Fair View Street, Pottsville, PA 17901-1719 (717)622-6102 EST Jean Spenser showed me her chart of a Cessna last month and I can attest their designs are good.  Since then I’ve spotted their ads in the magazines with other models shown.  I think you will find what you want here.         Deborah

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another brother and my father both fly small planes.  So… I’m looking for designs related to flying, pilots, small planes (like Cessna 172), sea/floatplanes (like deHavilland Beaver or Cessna 172 floatplane), etc.  The more detail the better, but I’d like to hear about *any* design you know of.

fiance. The chart was only 3.75 or so, and I haven’t tried it yet, but since I can’t find anything else, this will do. Hope this helps! Chris Loria P.S. The folks at Stitchers Source are wonderful!! I highly recommend making purchases from them !

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Yes, me again!  In addition to the firefighter brother, another brother and my father both fly small planes.  So… I’m looking for designs related to flying, pilots, small planes (like Cessna 172), sea/floatplanes (like deHavilland Beaver or Cessna 172 floatplane), etc.  The more detail the better, but I’d like to hear about *any* design you know of. Thanks very much!  …and, as I’m saying in each of my "Looking for…" posts, I will summarize to the newsgroup if I get any email responses. Livermore CA  /  Weather always looks worse through a window                                 |   Mark & Barbara Laufersweiler  |          What is a weed?                                 |        not been discovered.

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Question:

We have a TU group  going into Alaska this summer to flyfish. It’s expensive but the quality is sensational. The attached letter was sent to this year’s participants. If you have any interest please e-mail me. Copy of letter:

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If you send me an e-mail I will send you copy of my letter containing all the info on trip. Thanks!

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