Question:

I was probably coming into the conversation late – what’s new?! I usually use a duncan loop to tie tippet to fly. I usually start with a fairly loose knot in the hope that the fly will move in a more natural manner (and that that will make a difference), but it usually tightens up after a few casts. If I can ever get to the point that I can tell that my choice of fly-to-tippet connection makes a difference I’ll stop being a banker and become a guide. Bob

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – bob, i think they’re talking about a loop, instead of clinch, uni, or other knot, connection of tippet to fly.  anyway, on that assumption, several experienced and knowledgeable folks in the nc mountains suggest the loop allows wets, nymphs, and streamers to move about in the water better and allow more realistic presentation.  i use the surgeon’s loop at times.  i haven’t been able to tell if there’s much difference in the fish’s appreciation of my effort though… jeff //snip// Bill, do you have any sense of whether a loop makes a difference ?  I’ve gone back and forth with loop vs non-loop connections to clousers (read: am I too tired/ cold/etc to bother) and haven’t noticed a difference. I’m going through the same debate. Nail knots are a pain in the ass to tie. I’ve been upset enough with loop connectors (they get jammed in the guides) that I swear never to use them again, but then when it’s cold and I want to get a new leader on quickly I capitulate. Have never tried leader links, but Wolfgang was using one on our Hazel trip and it seemed to be a good compact connection. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

 Try the "non-slip loop", which is the Rapala loop without the final  step.  Both are supposed to be stronger than the Duncan.

Thanks. The main need I have for strength is for pulling flies out of brush. Bob Wondering if it’s better to break the line at the tippet-to-fly connection or at the tippet-to-leader . . .

Response:

I use a no-slip loop knot whenever I want a loop in tippet. It’s easy to tie and very strong.

Like Bill says below I’ve used it as a loop knot on a fly works great and very strong. Good idea to use as a tippet connector I’ll have to try.

Response:

I’ll stop being a banker and become a guide. Bob

    liar, liar, pants on fire.  we all know you’re an accountant! yfitons wayno

Response:

Wayne Knight suggested that Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection. I have been having problems tying small flies on to tippet (especially dry flies), so I now pre-snell/tie them, at my tying table with plenty of light and magnification, to about 16" – 18" of tippet and store them in a thing called a "Pip’s Box" made by Mack’s Lure of Leavenworth, Washington State US (You can hold better than a dozen flies or so with this thing without tangling the tippet, and it comes in colors with a see thru lid.  I organize my flies by the color of the box.)  My eyesight, especially at twilight or later, is not so good even with a flashlight.  I just can’t seem to get the tippet thru then I have a hell of a time tying the knot IF I get it threaded.  I am using Fluorocarbon tippet, these days, and I feel that a blood knot is not adequate for this material.  I then use a Tie-Fast Knot Tying tippet to the leader with their double splicing knot or double nail knot as some have described it, which I believe is considerably stronger than the blood knot, or at least my blood knots anyway…be curious to see if anyone else has the same experience. Just my two cents worth, anyway Padishar Creel

Response:

  we all know you’re an accountant! Always prospecting for business, huh? Bob

Response:

I think I will, Wayne. I made a leader, per Lefty Kreh’s directions, for casting big bugs. However, I used uni to uni knots. I think I will make another one with blood knots and attach it. I mastered nail knots a long time ago. Now, I am trying to expand my knot repertoire. I still maintain that the perfection loop is a myth… Bug, et al. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better

Response:

Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop.

it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line. The strongest loop you can tie is the bimini or some of the variants of this loop. It’s complicated and not usually used for a tippet loop in most applications

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line.

I use a no-slip loop knot whenever I want a loop in tippet. It’s easy to tie and very strong.

Response:

Ralph, — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line. The strongest loop you can tie is the bimini or some of the variants of this loop. It’s complicated and not usually used for a tippet loop in most applications

Response:

Steve, Lefty really promoted the non-slip loop knot and now I see most of all using it with flies we want to move freely like a Clouser minnow. Thanks. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi All, Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. it is but not by much.(perhaps 3 to 5%). Perfections should give a strength of 90 to 95% of the line vs 95% plus for a surgeon. The surgeons is a bit easier to tie though. An attribute of the perfection is that it is perfectly straight while a surgeon loop may put a bit of an angle in the line. I use a no-slip loop knot whenever I want a loop in tippet. It’s easy to tie and very strong.

Response:

Nice contribution. Very helpful. I hope you continue to foster goodwill in this group and for the sport of fly fishing. Bugged – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better Better strength-test it on your dick first, Collier.

Response:

//snip//  Bill, do you have any sense of whether a loop makes a  difference ?  I’ve gone back and forth with loop vs  non-loop connections to clousers (read: am I too tired/  cold/etc to bother) and haven’t noticed a difference.

I’m going through the same debate. Nail knots are a pain in the ass to tie. I’ve been upset enough with loop connectors (they get jammed in the guides) that I swear never to use them again, but then when it’s cold and I want to get a new leader on quickly I capitulate. Have never tried leader links, but Wolfgang was using one on our Hazel trip and it seemed to be a good compact connection. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

bob, i think they’re talking about a loop, instead of clinch, uni, or other knot, connection of tippet to fly.  anyway, on that assumption, several experienced and knowledgeable folks in the nc mountains suggest the loop allows wets, nymphs, and streamers to move about in the water better and allow more realistic presentation.  i use the surgeon’s loop at times.  i haven’t been able to tell if there’s much difference in the fish’s appreciation of my effort though… jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – //snip// Bill, do you have any sense of whether a loop makes a difference ?  I’ve gone back and forth with loop vs non-loop connections to clousers (read: am I too tired/ cold/etc to bother) and haven’t noticed a difference. I’m going through the same debate. Nail knots are a pain in the ass to tie. I’ve been upset enough with loop connectors (they get jammed in the guides) that I swear never to use them again, but then when it’s cold and I want to get a new leader on quickly I capitulate. Have never tried leader links, but Wolfgang was using one on our Hazel trip and it seemed to be a good compact connection. — http://rwpatton.home.netcom.com/

Response:

cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better

Better strength-test it on your dick first, Collier.

Response:

I’ve found its hard to beat a perfection loop for most leader connections. The perfection (if tied properly) stands straight out from the standing line with no offset, and the knot strength is near 100%. I use it on all leader butts (with a whipped loop on the fly line), & on all tippet connections down to 4x.  5x & smaller I use a doubled surgeons knot.  I think its easier to tie than a surgeons loop, and, well….. it looks cool! B.J.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Bug

Response:

Hi All, In larger diameter mono like attaching leader to a butt section we use perfection loops because they are a smaller, cleaner knot and strength is not an issue. Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we sometimes use a surgeons loop because it is stronger than a perfection loop. In larger diameter mono like attaching a leader to a butt section we also use a blood knot because it is a smaller, cleaner knot. Connecting the smaller tippet material to the leader we also use a triple surgeons knot because it is stronger. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop Sacramento, CA, USA www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Bug

Response:

Can someone direct me to a site that will show how to tie the perfection loop and the surgeon’s loop?? Tony – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Bug

Response:

Can someone direct me to a site that will show how to tie the perfection loop and the surgeon’s loop?? Tony

Hi Tony, Go here for any knot you’re apt to use: http://www.flyanglersonline.com/begin/knots/ Frank Sr.

Response:

I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Bug

Response:

I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop?

Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Response:

Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Actually, leader loops are used between the flyline and the butt section, where you aren’t likely to tie a blood knot. You could use a nail knot, a "nailless" nail knot, a needle knot, or a Zap-a-Gap connection, but not a blood knot, unless you’re either crazy or desperate or stupid. I’ve even heard of one person using two clinch knots, incredibly enough, but I don’t recommend it. I’d rather use a blood knot. I usually tie a new leader onto the butt section (attached to the flyline with a leader link) with a blood knot. After quite a few leader changes I eventually need a new leader link and butt section, but that takes quite awhile — maybe once a year on my workhorse rig.

Response:

I speaking only from the leader end, agree blood knot to attach a butt section to a leader.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection. Actually, leader loops are used between the flyline and the butt section, where you aren’t likely to tie a blood knot. You could use a nail knot, a "nailless" nail knot, a needle knot, or a Zap-a-Gap connection, but not a blood knot, unless you’re either crazy or desperate or stupid. I’ve even heard of one person using two clinch knots, incredibly enough, but I don’t recommend it. I’d rather use a blood knot. I usually tie a new leader onto the butt section (attached to the flyline with a leader link) with a blood knot. After quite a few leader changes I eventually need a new leader link and butt section, but that takes quite awhile — maybe once a year on my workhorse rig.

Response:

You’re talking about a blood knot to connect the leader to the fly line?? I wanted to use a nail knot to connect the leader, but the line came with a loop, and I justed couldn’t get myself to cut the flyline. Anyway, I’m not arthritic or disabled, but I am confused and thick-headed. Are you saying a loop to loop leader to flyline is bad? Sorry. Sometimes I am profoundly obtuse Bug, et al. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Response:

cut the fly line, tie the nail and then tie the blood knot, you’ll feel much better

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You’re talking about a blood knot to connect the leader to the fly line?? I wanted to use a nail knot to connect the leader, but the line came with a loop, and I justed couldn’t get myself to cut the flyline. Anyway, I’m not arthritic or disabled, but I am confused and thick-headed. Are you saying a loop to loop leader to flyline is bad? Sorry. Sometimes I am profoundly obtuse Bug, et al. I personally think the perfection loop is something of a myth or some type of black magic. For leader loops, is it any better than a surgeon’s loop? Leader Loops are for those people who’s fingers are too arthritic or disabled to tie a knot, otherwise one should use a damn bloodknot for a leader connection.

Response:

Question:

This year we’re going to France to do some Fly-fishing. Does anybody has some experience in Bourgondie, Avergne, Midi-Pyrenes (or other places) thanks, martin

Response:

Hey Martin, have a look at the following WebPages. The first two are for fishing only, Union Nationale pour la P

Question:

Practical advice snipped… Patience, determination, something the rod can rest on and be turned (by hand or with a slow motor) while the wraps are being applied and while the epoxy dries.

For a "wrapping station," take a straight, flat piece of 1" x 4" to 8" X 4.5′ to 6.5′ (US meas.) board, plywood, MDF, etc, and cut two 6" or so pieces from one end, notch a "V" into one end of each piece, glue or tack (but if tacking, don’t put the tacks in the "V" but on the sides) a couple of layers of felt into the notches.  Attach these to the base board, in an upright position, with the "V" up and the point of the "V" aligned with the centerline of the base board, about 2 1/2′ apart  Take a bolt of sufficient length and diameter to hold your thread spools, but allow it to "free spool," 2 flat "fender"-style washers, and 6 wing nuts (4 to fasten the bolt to the brackets and 2, with the washers, to control tension on the spool), and a couple of "L" brackets, and attach as a thread holder at a mid-point between the two upright notched pieces on the long base board.and voila, a "wrapping station."  If the above doesn’t provide enough detail, or isn’t clear, and anyone wants more details, I’ll be happy to further describe. HTH, R

Response:

There’s a message board at www.vfs.com that has a rodbuilding section.

See http://www.flyshop.com/centers/rodbuilding/ Has step by step instructions.  Good concise book is LA Garcia’s Handcrafting a Graphite Fly Rod.  Doesn’t really have much more info than the web site but has very good close-up photos.  Dale Clemens’ Advanced Custom Rod Building is the book you’ll want if you really start getting into rod-building. (some of what he says about his own products should be taken with a grain of salt). Good quality blank is a St. Croix SCIV.  If you build your own rods from premium blanks you can figure on saving 40% or so below the factory rod price (with the exception of Winston which sems to charge very high prices for its blanks in comparison with their finished rods). I’ve been pleased with Lamiglas rod blanks (www.anglersworkshop.com is a good place for these). A good value on blanks can often be found when a certain rod is being discontinued. St. Croix, Lamiglas and discontinued Sage blanks have all proven their worth in my experiences as a rod builder.  I did buy a Scott blank for full price.  Expensive but I really love that rod. www.hookhack.com www.anglersworkshop.com www.shofftackle.com www.feather-craft.com Good service all around but the first two are especially friendly and helpful.  I picked up a cosmetic-blem 8′ 4 pc 3 wt Lamiglas from anglersworkshop for $35.  Not even Cabelas can beat a price like that. Mu

Response:

I’m a DIY’er.  Always have been.

me too The last time out on the river, < snipped for brevity—

I came to same conclusion fishing for little grayling and smaller trout-but I went with a 9′ – 4 weight    -what is included when one purchases a rod blank

just that- a blank- 2 piece, 3 piece, or whatever you order.    -what steps are involved in turning it into a rod

a.)spine the rod (i.e. find out what plane it wants to bend in- lots of discussion as to what side the guides go on- on the spine or opposite b.)fit the grip and epoxy it in place c.)fit the reel seat and epoxy it in place d) buff, file the guide feet to eliminate burrs that could damage the blank or create a "crack" in the thread wrap e.)determine the guide spacing and tape or temp wrap the guides in place f.)wrap the guides (do this well – a bad job and your rod works- but its ugly) g.)verify guide alignment and re-align if neeeded h.)verify guide alignment and re-align if neeeded i.)epoxy the wraps j) install tip top k)go fishing Check the VFS (virtual flyshop)- they have an excellent breakdown on the proceedure.  though it takes longer to read than to do it.    -what additional parts/supplies need to be purchased

If you buy a blank- you will need also to buy a tip top, guide set (most manufacturers will provide recommended guide spacing), hook keeper (optional), winding check (also optional) cork grip, reel seat  with spacer, rod winding thread, rod building epoxy for gluing the cork and reel seat in place, and rod wrap epoxy ( I use Flex Cote lite & I like it). Personally-for a first attempt I’d buy a kit- it comes with all of the above, Cabelas, hook and hackle, etc all offer beginner kits and some flexibility as to what blank you want to use.    -what tools/skills are needed

a magnifying light is helpful, some sort of device to cradle the rod while you turn the blank to wrap the threads ( look at various websites – its no prob to build these things- my first cradle was a bent up coat hanger- I built my latest contraption out of plywood with felt cushions)., something to tension the thread (many run the thread between the pages of the phone book and find that this adequately tensions the thread). You will need something to sand the inside of the cork handle to allow it to fit the but of the rod–I use sandpaper taped to a broken section of an old fly rod chucked into a cordless drill  (use garnet paper- not wet/dry–if the sandpaper comes off your mandrel inside the grip, garnet paper will fall apart if you hold it under the faucet- wet or dry just giggles-ask me how I know).  It is really nice to have a low rpm motor to turn the rod while you epoxy the wraps- it allows the epoxy to self level and keeps it from sagging.  I bought just the motor and made a cradle for the rod from cabelas.    -which particular blanks represent a good value

I’ve built a 2 St Croix rods (SCIII & SCIV), both 9′ 6 wts -I like them both- and I’ve built 2 GLoomis GL3 rods that I really like (9′ 4 wt and9′ 5wt). I am about to try a blank from hook and hackle 9′6 8wt Pointers to any printed material would be appreciated too.

print out the instructions from virtual fly shop- its all you need- cabelas kits also come with step by step instructions. I bough a 5.00 book at a local flyshop printed by Guidebrod (I think). Thanks! Bill Bill- its a fun project- not terribly difficult, and you can get a pretty good rod for some savings over a factory- but its yours, built to your specs- whatever grade of seat, guides , etc you want.  go for it. John

Response:

    -what is included when one purchases a rod blank

The rod itself without tiptop, guides, thread, color protector, slow dry epoxy for wraps, cork grip, reel seat, quick dry epoxy (for grip, seat, tiptop). The blank price includes none of that stuff. I’m guessing that some blanks come with sock and tube, but only the high-end rods I believe. Otherwise you have to buy those yourself.     -what steps are involved in turning it into a rod

Assembling the stuff above.     -what additional parts/supplies need to be purchased

The stuff above.     -what tools/skills are needed

Patience, determination, something the rod can rest on and be turned (by hand or with a slow motor) while the wraps are being applied and while the epoxy dries.     -which particular blanks represent a good value

Compared to the cost of a new finished rod, all blanks are pretty much a good value if your time is worth nothing or if you enjoy DIY. If this is going to be a "keeper" rod, you might wanna go to a fly shop and find the best rod to meet your casting style and then order the blank. Closeout rod blanks (Sage SP and LL, for example) are especially a good deal but are sometimes hard to find. My opinion: if you’re gonna buy a no-name blank to save money I think you might as well just consider purchasing an already-finished Cabelas 7.5′ 4wt Stowaway or 3wt Three forks rod for much less money than you could build one. If you really wanna DIY, I’d recommend purchasing an inexpensive blank or even a kit for your first project and treat is as a potential throw-away. Learning how to get the wraps to look good isn’t rocket science but it does take a bit of practice. Pointers to any printed material would be appreciated too.

There’s a message board at www.vfs.com that has a rodbuilding section. Browse the archives and you’ll find way more than you need to know. Be extremely careful, though, because once you build one rod you’ll find that it’s *very, very* hard to stop HTH, –Steve

Response:

Hi- I’m a DIY’er.  Always have been.  As I mentioned recently, I’ve begun tying my own flies, which I find enjoyable.  I like to tell myself that I do these things out of frugality, but I fear that it has more to do with a stubborn notion of "jeez, I’m *sure* I could do that just as well myself!"  Of course, I usually can’t, but I have a good time trying anyhow. The last time out on the river, while landing yet another 10" trout, I got to thinking that perhaps it might be more fun with a lighter weight rod.  I currently fish a 5 weight.  My fishing has yet to find me with any fish larger than 14" on the other end, and I think I’ve had one run line off the reel twice.  I’m thinking about a 3 weight, perhaps 7.5′.  I fish streams more frequently than rivers and normally am more concerned with casting the fly "right there" rather than "waaaay over there". That got me to looking through the catalogs, which, in turn, got me to thinking about rod blanks.  I’ve seen mention of these suckers here on ROFF, but am now more intrigued about what exactly is involved in turning one into a fishable rod. Could someone outline:     -what is included when one purchases a rod blank     -what steps are involved in turning it into a rod     -what additional parts/supplies need to be purchased     -what tools/skills are needed     -which particular blanks represent a good value Pointers to any printed material would be appreciated too. Thanks! Bill

Response:

Hi- am now more intrigued about what exactly is involved in turning one into a fishable rod. Could someone outline:     -what is included when one purchases a rod blank

The blank.  The graphite and nothing but the graphite…. …unless you buy a rod building kit which usually includes all of the parts needed (guides, reel seat, grip, tip, etc).     -what steps are involved in turning it into a rod

It’s actually quite easy. – glue the reel seat on. – glue the cork grip on. – wrap all the guides on – varnish/epoxy the wraps – glue the tip on.     -what additional parts/supplies need to be purchased

All the stuff listed above if you don’t buy a kit. Epoxy and/or varnish, guides, reel seat, thread, cork grip, tip top, hook keeper     -what tools/skills are needed

No special skills are needed.  A rod turner is really handy to have for turning the rod while the guides are drying, but other than that nothing else is absolutely needed.     -which particular blanks represent a good value

Who knows, it’s pretty much up to your values. Try a bunch of finished rods and buy a blank of the rod you like.  Hook and Hackle has some inexpensive blanks, but who knows if you would like them. Have fun,      - Ken

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi- I’m a DIY’er.   That got me to looking through the catalogs, which, in turn, got me to thinking about rod blanks.  I’ve seen mention of these suckers here on ROFF, but am now more intrigued about what exactly is involved in turning one into a fishable rod. Could someone outline:    -what is included when one purchases a rod blank    -what steps are involved in turning it into a rod    -what additional parts/supplies need to be purchased    -what tools/skills are needed    -which particular blanks represent a good value Pointers to any printed material would be appreciated too.

I don’t say this to be rude or flippant, but mainly because you start off the post with the words "I’m a DIY’er." If you are like all DIY’ers I know, you are the type who not only learns "better" and faster by "tinkering" and doing, but enjoys the learning process more when doing that way.  If I’m incorrect about this, post as such, and I’ll offer more specific advice if I have any that seems helpful. That said, if I may:   There are numerous websites, a www.google.com search ought to keep you busy for weeks, and there are quite a few books out there as well, and of course, ROFF is a decent source.  Dale Clemens has a book, which IIRC, is called _Fiberglass Rod Making_ (I don’t have it handy at the moment).  I like his books, but some find them a bit too advanced (and some find it dated) – YMMV, of course.   As to the actual work, go get an assortment of REALLY used cheap rods (like the 1-5USD ones at charity stores, tag/garage sales, etc.) – fly rods, bait-casting rods, spinning rods, whatever.  Just try to get an assortment of types, and try to make sure most have cork handles. Condition, brand, etc. isn’t really important, even broken and incomplete rods are fine.  If you happen to stumble over something that might be a restorable "keeper," just put it away for now.  Once you have several "project rods," find a reference source you like, be it online, a book, or here, and start taking the rods apart, noting how they were assembled.  Then simply reverse the process, finishing the rods and learning while you go.   Use the worst of the bunch first, even broken rods, knowing full well they are simply learning projects.  You’ll likely have specific questions, and feel free to ask them on ROFF.  You’ll find lots of info here, some good, some not-so-good, and some, well, let’s just say it’s there. HTH?? R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks! Bill

Response:

Question:

Done that for bass.  Clear lake in norther California has vast fields of tulies and that is about the only way to fish them. We would use the same tackle we used for  Poke Poling – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for the name of a form of warm water fly fishing that I saw described in some magazine several years ago.   A short line was tied directly to the tip of a long cane pole which was armed with a popping bug which was then dabbled about on the water around lily pads and brush piles.   I believe that this was used in places where brush prevented traditional fly casting. Can anybody help? Thanks in advance. Buff This technique is known as "Doodel Socking",  or simply "Doodeling". For more info have a look at http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/oldflies/part11.html TL MC

Response:

abcpicts wrote I am looking for the name of a form of warm water fly fishing that I saw described in some magazine several years ago.  …..

Funny you should mention this.  Our club speaker this month was an interesting ol’ character named Harry Smith who uses a very similar technique to illicit frenzied response from bass. His fly is a hookless bird pattern about the size of a baby bird.  He simply ties the birdfly to a short (3-4") spring loaded leader that is tied directly to the rod tip….No reel!.  Harry gets into the weeds and begins dabbling the little birdie here and there until he gets the attention of one or more bass and then the fun begins. The video footage he presented is absolutely amazing!  The fish grab the fly, take it down, eventually let it go….then come back for more.  Harry claims several hundred strikes in an hour.  It’s amazing that the fish keep after the pattern in spite of their lack of success in acquiring any protein from the effort. —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

I am looking for the name of a form of warm water fly fishing that I saw described in some magazine several years ago.   A short line was tied directly to the tip of a long cane pole which was armed with a popping bug which was then dabbled about on the water around lily pads and brush piles.   I believe that this was used in places where brush prevented traditional fly casting. Can anybody help? Thanks in advance. Buff

Response:

There is a version of fly fishing practised in the UK called "dapping". It involves the use of a long rod, a light line and a fine leader. The rod is fished down wind from a boat and the wind bounces the fly from wave to wave. This sounds  like the word you need. Although, your description does not sound like fly fishing in the traditional sense.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for the name of a form of warm water fly fishing that I saw described in some magazine several years ago.   A short line was tied directly to the tip of a long cane pole which was armed with a popping bug which was then dabbled about on the water around lily pads and brush piles.   I believe that this was used in places where brush prevented traditional fly casting. Can anybody help? Thanks in advance. Buff

Response:

bug-dunkin — Don Thompson Another Thompson Scion

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for the name of a form of warm water fly fishing that I saw described in some magazine several years ago.   A short line was tied directly to the tip of a long cane pole which was armed with a popping bug which was then dabbled about on the water around lily pads and brush piles.   I believe that this was used in places where brush prevented traditional fly casting. Can anybody help? Thanks in advance. Buff

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I am looking for the name of a form of warm water fly fishing that I saw described in some magazine several years ago.   A short line was tied directly to the tip of a long cane pole which was armed with a popping bug which was then dabbled about on the water around lily pads and brush piles.   I believe that this was used in places where brush prevented traditional fly casting. Can anybody help? Thanks in advance. Buff

This technique is known as "Doodel Socking",  or simply "Doodeling". For more info have a look at http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/oldflies/part11.html TL MC

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There is a version of fly fishing practised in the UK called "dapping". It involves the use of a long rod, a light line and a fine leader.

My understanding is that dapping isn’t usually done with a fine tippet. After all, the tippet isn’t supposed to get into the water. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

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<SNIP My understanding is that dapping isn’t usually done with a fine tippet. After all, the tippet isn’t supposed to get into the water.

Your understanding is correct. Using too fine a leader is a serious mistake when dapping. I have never used anything less than eight pound mono. Dapping tends to attract large fish. http://www.fishandfly.co.uk/jbedit0699.html http://www.fishandfly.co.uk/jbedit0900.html http://www.amazingoutdoors.com/0,2010,S74-P166-A7436-TA,00.html http://www.masterflyfishing.com/tactics/nymphs/page4.htm http://www.actravel.co.uk/shannon.html http://www.irishfieldsports.com/newpage64.htm You might find these interesting as well; http://www.flymail.com/graphcat/dapping.html TL MC

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Doodling is indeed the word. Large crank baits are used for bass and flies for bream and warmouth. Fish are not lifted from the water but retrieved hand over hand. a cane pole works well. — John Popp in Sanford Fl.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am looking for the name of a form of warm water fly fishing that I saw described in some magazine several years ago.   A short line was tied directly to the tip of a long cane pole which was armed with a popping bug which was then dabbled about on the water around lily pads and brush piles.   I believe that this was used in places where brush prevented traditional fly casting. Can anybody help? Thanks in advance. Buff This technique is known as "Doodel Socking",  or simply "Doodeling". For more info have a look at http://www.flyanglersonline.com/features/oldflies/part11.html TL MC

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After checking one of my old American books, I found another name for the technique you describe.  It is called "Jiggerpoling".  Much the same as "Doodling" but a plug, bacon rind, frog, etc or similar is used.  A search on "jiggerpoling" turned up these; http://www.gcomag.com/052k/jiggerpole.htm http://www.edersfishing.com/fresh/publication/2000/june/Jiggerploes/d…. cfm Very interesting. TL MC

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Question:

Well we survived  . . .  barely. You see, it’s been raining, and it’s spring, and there’s been some snow melt.  That ends up with lots of high, dirty water.  We tried Friday, we tried Saturday, and tomorrow we’re going to the fishing show.  We know when we’re beat. Louie tried his nymphs, I tried my wets and Greg threw what ever he had but it made no difference – only the whistle trout were interested.   Louie did hook into one steelhead but since he had no idea what he was doing, he lost it.  The dumb ass – the only decent fish we were gonna see in those conditions and he lost it! On Friday, Louie puts on his new Patagonia waders, his new Patagonia, jacket, his new Patagonia whatever, . . . and one very shitty pair of boots.  At the end of the day, the boots had to go.  On Saturday, we went to Grindstone for new boots and Louie was outfitted with a new pair of Weinbrenners.  We’re suiting up and there’s Louie in his Patagonias (Orvis is officially fashion history) and there he is in his new boots, all set to fish with the tags still attached.  And I fish with this guy!!!!! Greg’s a little bemused by all of this and he’s beginning to wonder what he’s getting himself into.  I try to reassure him but the damage has been done.  Anyway we went, we came, we saw, we left defeated. Now we sit, drowning our sorrows in what ever is handy, ice wine, bordeaux, Macallans, Wild Turkey – hell, you make do with what you have. Cheers Peter Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

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Louie did hook into one steelhead but since he had no idea what he was doing, he lost it.  The dumb ass – the only decent fish we were gonna see in those conditions and he lost it!

Well is he hooked? On Friday, Louie puts on his new Patagonia waders, his new Patagonia, jacket, his new Patagonia whatever

Speaking of Patagonia, I was fishing the surf a few weeks ago when suddenly all these people show up with fly gear.  I was packing up after having caught a croaker.  I never did too well in this spot and never saw anyone else fly fishing so it was a bit of a surprise to realize that I’m not the only fool who likes to hang around a polluted river mouth whipping tungsten-laden PVC through the air at the end of a graphite stick.  Turns out they work at Patagonia and often conduct *field research* after work. Mu

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On Friday, Louie puts on his new Patagonia waders, his new Patagonia, jacket, his new Patagonia whatever, . . . and one very shitty pair of boots.  At the end of the day, the boots had to go.  On Saturday, we went to Grindstone for new boots and Louie was outfitted with a new pair of Weinbrenners.  We’re suiting up and there’s Louie in his Patagonias (Orvis is officially fashion history) and there he is in his new boots, all set to fish with the tags still attached.  And I fish with this guy!!!!!

Peter, part of the art of flyfishing is *lookg* right. Any one who looks the part earns the comment -"There’s a real fly fisher" If no fish are caught then it’s the dumb fish’s fault! I’ll bet the accommodation was first class though. — Bill Grey http://www.billboy.co.uk

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Question:

Any thoughts by anyone as to what (sometimes) works there, if anything-ever, would be MOST appreciated.

Bob, Best fishing is in low light conditions….dawn, dusk/dark, rain. (refer back to my ‘Fishing in the rain’ post, the location was the flat water below the Y-Pool.)  In daylight, small flies on 7X/8X tippets will work when the trout are feeding. Sight fishing works much better than using an indicator. Many times the trout simply don’t feed during daylight. If you get too frustrated, go downstream and play with the little rainbows…..they feed all the time. George Adams "From the rockin’ of the cradle to the rollin’ of the hearse, the goin’ up was worth the comin’ down." ___Kris Kristofferson "The Pilgrim/Chapter 33"

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……back channel me and I will type it for you…

Oh man, this place is getting REALLY disgusting!! Wolfgang "She said,’That ain’t the way to have fun, son.’"

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I think that the absolutely most frustrating place I have ever, ever, fished has to be the Y pool on the Swift below the Quabbin.

<snipped Bob, just got back from a morning on the stream…anyway the owner of the local fly shop was my partner and I brought him up to show him the Roffians and my new vise.  He read your post and muttered, "South Platte Brassy, that’ll do it."  I have no idea if it will, of course,  but I felt compelled to send his suggestion on…If your are at all interested and you don’t have the formula, I found it in one of my books, just back channel me and I will type it for you… Padishar Creel

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: I think that the absolutely most frustrating place I have ever, ever, fished has to be the Y pool on the Swift below the Quabbin. Was there again yesterday from about 8 AM  to noon, and the Rainbows were so thick you literally had to watch where you stepped.  The density of them was just incredible; it was as if you were in a Hatchery. Naturally, as usual, I didn’t catch anything there.  Must be the world’s most discriminating trout. Not that the few others there did much better-I think one fellow caught one while i was trying. Tried just about everything in the Orvis catalog, from large to midges, dries, nymphys, etc. Even a streamer.  Anyway, was a most beautiful day. Any thoughts by anyone as to what (sometimes) works there, if anything-ever, would be MOST appreciated.

LOL! I’ve been fishing at the deflectors and have witnessed people storming down the trail from the Y-pool just a cussin’ and a fumin’ like you wouldn’t believe. By this time of year those fish will take you to school. I guess it can get the better of you if you aren’t careful… I’ve fished the Y on and off for 35 years. Caught my first big rainbow on a fly there when I was 13. Over the years I’ve had luck at the Y using small PT nymphs, RFSH nymphs, Sulfur dries (late evening hatch), beetles (especially Jassids using real JC nails), ants of various styles, and of course, micro-minutiae midge larva (ie: a #26 is a big one). If the fish aren’t actively feeding, I  still start out with a PT nymph and see what happens.  If the trout are into their "smutting" act, you can try bowling tiny gray or rust midge larva on a long 7x-8x tippet at the risers and strike on anything close. Tough on the eyes – I was much better at this when I was twenty years younger – but it will work. Less often successful, but a lot easier on the eyes, is to plop an ant or beetle down along the rocks on the far side of the tail-out… Fwiw, I used to watch the Old Man of the Y Pool stand for hours catching trout using a small light-blue-over-white streamer. Go figure… /daytripper

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Hello: I think that the absolutely most frustrating place I have ever, ever, fished has to be the Y pool on the Swift below the Quabbin. Was there again yesterday from about 8 AM  to noon, and the Rainbows were so thick you literally had to watch where you stepped.  The density of them was just incredible; it was as if you were in a Hatchery. Naturally, as usual, I didn’t catch anything there.  Must be the world’s most discriminating trout. Not that the few others there did much better-I think one fellow caught one while i was trying. Tried just about everything in the Orvis catalog, from large to midges, dries, nymphys, etc. Even a streamer.  Anyway, was a most beautiful day. Any thoughts by anyone as to what (sometimes) works there, if anything-ever, would be MOST appreciated. Bob

Response:

Try another catalogue perhaps? TL MC — "In order to know what is possible one must constantly attempt the impossible" http://www.mikeconnor.de – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello: I think that the absolutely most frustrating place I have ever, ever, fished has to be the Y pool on the Swift below the Quabbin. <SNIP Tried just about everything in the Orvis catalog, from large to midges, dries, nymphys, etc. Even a streamer.  Anyway, was a most beautiful day. Any thoughts by anyone as to what (sometimes) works there, if anything-ever, would be MOST appreciated. Bob

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Question:

A summarized quote from an article in Audubon: "The federal government is proposing that Maine’s Atlantic salmon be protected under the Endangered Species Act. In 1999 less than 100 spawning females returned to the eight rivers targeted in the proposal and those were the Country’s best remaining runs of wild Atlantic salmon. Maine’s governor Angus King and a congressional delegation from Maine take issue with the claim that Maine salmon are a distinct subspecies. They feel that an ESA listing would harm the blueberry and salmon aquaculture industries." Even if the salmon don’t ultimately get ESA protection, maybe just the "threat" of it will improve the situation. In Colorado, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming, just the consideration of putting some of our native trout species under the ESA, prompted the states’ to step up their efforts in restoring these populations, seemingly to try and curtail the ESA designation. Willi

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A summarized quote from an article in Audubon: "The federal government is proposing that Maine’s Atlantic salmon be protected under the Endangered Species Act. In 1999 less than 100 spawning females returned to the eight rivers targeted in the proposal and those were the Country’s best remaining runs of wild Atlantic salmon. Maine’s governor Angus King and a congressional delegation from Maine take issue with the claim that Maine salmon are a distinct subspecies. They feel that an ESA listing would harm the blueberry and salmon aquaculture industries." Even if the salmon don’t ultimately get ESA protection, maybe just the "threat" of it will improve the situation. In Colorado, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming, just the consideration of putting some of our native trout species under the ESA, prompted the states’ to step up their efforts in restoring these populations, seemingly to try and curtail the ESA designation.

hope this isn’t considered raining on the esa parade, but i have yet to see any meaningful reforms due to the esa in the northwest.  the powers that be, inclusing those within NMFS, seem to be fighting harder and harder every year to maintain the status quo, except for those sport fisheries… those must be closed first because they have the most impact (add heavy dose of sarcasm to last sentence <G) we’re starting to get some inklings that things may be changing, but hell, chinook on the snake river have been listed for an awful long time to just be finally doing something. if it’s true that only 100 female atlantics were in 8 rivers, i’m amazed that they aren’t covered under the esa.  looks like maine’s salmon are on cruise control towards extinction. chris

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I’ll conceived IMHO Here’s the facts I’m aware of. 1. Atlantic Salmon are not endangered as a species, Maine has no distinct species or subspecies of Salmon it’s just the run of the mill salmo salar 2. The runs have depleted over the past few years, despite the improvement to all the hydro projects to include downstream access – i.e.: no more cut bait from salmon returning to the sea. 3.  With the number of fish heading out due to stocking, and some limited natural reproduction,  it’s obvious to me the problem is NOT in the rivers of Maine but off the coast of Maine, this proposal will not get rid of the Russian and Japanese fishing fleets off our coast. (I do not claim this to be the entire problem, but when Canada quit netting salmon off their coast the runs improved). Overall fishing in the gulf of Maine is bad and getting worse. Giant factory ships under foreign flags sit there year round, I do not believe this has no impact. 4. Atlantic’s were placed on C&R 2 years ago to see if this helped, it takes 5 years for this to begin to show improvement or failure (for fish to return from the sea). 5. TU and Audubon who pushed for the C&R reg change have declared the program a failure, 3 years before any evidence pro or con can be produced 6. If ESA listing is approved on the rivers so designated agriculture and aquaculture will take a second seat. This could have an impact on Maine which has lagged the rest of the country in this age of economic growth. The Governor and the reps are just doing their jobs here. 7. The State of Maine has spent millions of dollars over the past 10+ years attempting to restore the salmon runs, it hasn’t worked. ESA listing doesn’t show much promise because the root cause of the depletion hasn’t been identified. Audubon needs to do some research before they attempt to impose a "solution". 8. The removal of the Edwards dam in Augusta may improve the virtually non-existent run in the Kennebec, despite the small numbers of fish in the Kennebec it’s not on Audubon’s list. The Kennebec once was home to the largest runs recorded in Maine and could be again given time to recover. These runs disappeared within years of Edwards construction. 9. ESA listing will more than likely cause these rivers to be closed to all angling regardless of the species targeted or so I’m told by the US F&W biologist locally. 10. Those numbers are not the same as what’s being touted here locally, I’ll see if I can find the website with the info. Also it’s TU and Audubon who are petitioning the Feds for the listing, it’s not a proposal from the Feds as far as I know (yet) We’d all love to have great runs of Atlantic’s, there is nothing finer than a 10lb salmon leaping out of the water on your fly, been there, done that. This proposal is premature and threatens the livelihood of some hardworking folks here in Maine. Audubon needs to back their claims with research, and they have yet to do that. Flyfish – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A summarized quote from an article in Audubon: "The federal government is proposing that Maine’s Atlantic salmon be protected under the Endangered Species Act. In 1999 less than 100 spawning females returned to the eight rivers targeted in the proposal and those were the Country’s best remaining runs of wild Atlantic salmon. Maine’s governor Angus King and a congressional delegation from Maine take issue with the claim that Maine salmon are a distinct subspecies. They feel that an ESA listing would harm the blueberry and salmon aquaculture industries." Even if the salmon don’t ultimately get ESA protection, maybe just the "threat" of it will improve the situation. In Colorado, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming, just the consideration of putting some of our native trout species under the ESA, prompted the states’ to step up their efforts in restoring these populations, seemingly to try and curtail the ESA designation. Willi

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I haven’t followed it in the last couple of weeks, but have the impression that ESA enactment is a done deal. Governor King’s complaint is that it’s bit premature: the Feds gave their blessing to a 5 year plan put into place by the State, and 2 years later came back with the Big Hammer. It’s a rather complex situation with no single factor bearing the brunt of the blame, but there’s little argument that the regions that are going to get hit the hardest economically are the same ones that only recently saw their unemployment levels dip below 10% for the first time in 10 or 15 years. Despite opinions to the contrary, the salmon have lots of support, whereas the unemployed have only the government to turn to. Governor King and the State are suing to get access to the data on which the Feds based their decision. Odd that he should have to do that in the face of what is purported to be overwhelming evidence that the ESA needed enacting. The Penobscot had water temps in excess of 70 in the Bangor area last season due to regionwide drought, but it won’t matter this year, the anglers get to take a by, for at least this year and for as long as some steadily employed people from another part of the country deem it. The whole thing still smells a little fishy to me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A summarized quote from an article in Audubon: "The federal government is proposing that Maine’s Atlantic salmon be protected under the Endangered Species Act. In 1999 less than 100 spawning females returned to the eight rivers targeted in the proposal and those were the Country’s best remaining runs of wild Atlantic salmon. Maine’s governor Angus King and a congressional delegation from Maine take issue with the claim that Maine salmon are a distinct subspecies. They feel that an ESA listing would harm the blueberry and salmon aquaculture industries." Even if the salmon don’t ultimately get ESA protection, maybe just the "threat" of it will improve the situation. In Colorado, New Mexico, Utah and Wyoming, just the consideration of putting some of our native trout species under the ESA, prompted the states’ to step up their efforts in restoring these populations, seemingly to try and curtail the ESA designation. Willi

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6. If ESA listing is approved on the rivers so designated agriculture and aquaculture will take a second seat. This could have an impact on Maine which has lagged the rest of the country in this age of economic growth. The Governor and the reps are just doing their jobs here.

how much of an impact do you think the aquaculture industry is having on maine’s wild salmon?  are there large numbers of escapees?  aquaculture definetely puts me in a tough situation… on one hand the price of fish declines, which is good for wild fish (not economical to harvest them) but the commercial impact on fish remains to make the food the fish in pens eat.  plus the use of antibiotics and the possible spread of diseases from rearing in tight quarters are imo seriously bad things. seems you want no job losses from aquaculture, but don’t mind job losses among the commercial fishing fleet.  seems a strange position since both have negative effects, although one is obvious and the other will be forever argued by those pro-aquaculture folks. we’re facing much the same deal here in the northwest with probable job losses (never mind the loss of a $1 billion sportfishery from the loss of viable fisheries).  do you have any treaty tribes in maine, because as i read it, in the nw they will be the folks who have the final say due to the treaties superseding much of the state’s power. good luck finding a solution, i hope you can find one. chris

Response:

6. If ESA listing is approved on the rivers so designated agriculture and aquaculture will take a second seat. This could have an impact on Maine which has lagged the rest of the country in this age of economic growth. The Governor and the reps are just doing their jobs here.

:how much of an impact do you think the aquaculture industry is having on maine’s wild salmon?  are there large numbers of escapees?  aquaculture definetely puts me in a tough situation… on one hand the price of fish declines, which is good for wild fish (not economical to harvest them) but the commercial impact on fish remains to make the food the fish in pens eat.  plus the use of antibiotics and the possible spread of diseases from rearing in tight quarters are imo seriously bad things.: The Maine and the New Brunswick salmon aquaculture industry are one in the same.  All of the salmon stocks in New Brunswick’s Bay of Fundy (with the exception of the Saint John River’s) are on the verge of extirpation.  The causitive link with aquaculture is suspected, because the stock declines commenced with the explosion of the industry in the early ’80’s.  The pathway(s) are not certain, but disease, genetic pollution and the concentration of predator theories cannot be dismissed.  The spread of the deadly Infectious Salmon Anemia (of European origin and imported in live fish to North America?) from cage escapees to wild salmon in one NB river has been demonstrated.  It has also been demonstrated that wild resident fish species, such as herring and harbour pollock are carriers of the disease. That said, a lot of the Down East salmon rivers of Maine are a long way from the aquaculture industry, and the pathway of its effect on them is hard to visualize.  The recovery of the eastern seaboard striped bass populations cannot be good for salmon, nor can exploding sea bird and seal populations.   At least one expert at Acadia University contends that it is foreign fishing fleets, which indiscriminatly fish for all species that are available, are the real culprits. JB :seems you want no job losses from aquaculture, but don’t mind job losses among the commercial fishing fleet.  seems a strange position since both have negative effects, although one is obvious and the other will be forever argued by those pro-aquaculture folks. we’re facing much the same deal here in the northwest with probable job losses (never mind the loss of a $1 billion sportfishery from the loss of viable fisheries).  do you have any treaty tribes in maine, because as i read it, in the nw they will be the folks who have the final say due to the treaties superseding much of the state’s power. good luck finding a solution, i hope you can find one. chris:

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Question:

Phew. Good story. How about more of this? Who out there among us has ever written a story for publication, only to have it rejected by some pip-squeek assistant editor? Why not publish yourself on the web? right here? This beats the hell out of C&R pissing. — /* Sandy Pittendrigh                  –oO0  * http://www.nervana.montana.edu/~sandy  */

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Why not publish yourself on the web? right here?

What, and give away blood, sweat & tears FOR FREE ? My literary agent would have a coronary. — Ken Fortenberry

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‘There’s nothing like making a definitive stement on the net to provehow wrong you are’

Too true, too true!

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Seemingly oblivious to the arcane machinations and unexplainable antics of a veritable host of erstwhile anglers, walkers, canoers, frustrated lovers, and usually inebriated potential suicides on the bridge above, the large and reputedly ancient trout lay just below the second brick foundation of the first bridge arch.  According to local folklore he weighed in excess of ten pounds, but he was apparently oblivious of his fame as well.   He rose occasionally and slurped a particularly inviting morsel from the calm lane at the side of the fast water caused by the water rushing through the narrows of the arch.

(remarkable story snipped) Allright, then, Mike, would it be true? Which part did you play? Mark Faulkner

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(remarkable story snipped) Allright, then, Mike, would it be true? Which part did you play? Mark Faulkner

Perfectly true, I know, I was that trout ! TL MC

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Damn bait fisherman!  We need more bartenders like that around all trout streams! Warren

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Seemingly oblivious to the arcane machinations and unexplainable antics of a veritable host of erstwhile anglers, walkers, canoers, frustrated lovers, and usually inebriated potential suicides on the bridge above, the large and reputedly ancient trout lay just below the second brick foundation of the first bridge arch.  According to local folklore he weighed in excess of ten pounds, but he was apparently oblivious of his fame as well.   He rose occasionally and slurped a particularly inviting morsel from the calm lane at the side of the fast water caused by the water rushing through the narrows of the arch. If some of the local worthies were to be believed he had been doing this every summer for the last ten years. Experts and tyros, men of letters, small boys with worms,  although the water was fly only, and even lowly poachers,  had all attempted the difficult cast at one time or another over the years, some even successfully, the jaw of the fish was laced with white scars easily visible in the clear water, testimony to the "barbs and arrows of outrageous fortune" to which he had been subjected and which he now bore with seeming nonchalance, perhaps even truculent pride. A hard won but most excellent education.  In the "Stag

Question:

I have only recently picked up the art of Flyfishing and I have not gone fishing before the drought. Because of all the rain this year I am wondering if there will be areas that will be closed or just unfishable due to the excess of water. I live in the bay area, and Hat creek is about six hours from my house. If anyone has any sugestions about where I can go, within that same range, please respond. E-mail me or respond in this newsgroup.

Response:

I have only recently picked up the art of Flyfishing and I have not gone fishing before the drought. Because of all the rain this year I am wondering if there will be areas that will be closed or just unfishable due to the excess of water. I live in the bay area, and Hat creek is about six hours from my house. If anyone has any sugestions about where I can go, within that same range, please respond. E-mail me or respond in this newsgroup.

Hi Tim:  Try Lewiston Lake on the Trinity River during the spring.  It is about the same distance as Hat Creek.  Lewiston has lots of hatches, good access, and good flyfishing.  Its pretty well known, much like Hat Creek but there is always alot of room to fish.  Float tubes, prams, and canoes are great but there is good shore access too.  Get information and flies at the Fly Shop in Redding.  By the way, two years ago when we had a big winter, I can’t remember any problems with high water.  Streams that are regulated below reservoirs usually run pretty clear when other places are brown. Best of luck.

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I tried Lewiston last Spring-May and was rather diasappoiunted. Only a few small planters. Was last year a bad year, flow through Lewiston was really up and maybe this had something to do with it?

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I have only recently picked up the art of Flyfishing and I have not gone fishing before the drought. Because of all the rain this year I am wondering if there will be areas that will be closed or just unfishable due to the excess of water. I live in the bay area, and Hat creek is about six hours from my house. If anyone has any sugestions about where I can go, within that same range, please respond. E-mail me or respond in this newsgroup.

Right now, no. Later in mid July to late August, The Kings River and Kaweah River are pretty good. Both have lots of trout, but most are in the 10 inch range. There are also lots of 24 inchers but you really have to know where to go and how to fish them. Most people around here don’t. Both Rivers are about 2 hours south east of Fresno. The lower Kings opens up early in the year, and is only 20 minutes from Fresno, but I’m not real familure with that part of the river. Dave

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have only recently picked up the art of Flyfishing and I have not gone fishing before the drought. Because of all the rain this year I am wondering if there will be areas that will be closed or just unfishable due to the excess of water. I live in the bay area, and Hat creek is about six hours from my house. If anyone has any sugestions about where I can go, within that same range, please respond. E-mail me or respond in this newsgroup. Right now, no. Later in mid July to late August, The Kings River and Kaweah River are pretty good. Both have lots of trout, but most are in the 10 inch range. There are also lots of 24 inchers but you really have to know where to go and how to fish them. Most people around here don’t.

I’ve fished the South Fork of the Kaweah River quite a few times above Ladybug Camp but have never fished any of the other rivers in the area. Any suggestions? — John Fereira "Guru of Miscellany" Pleasanton, CA "i’m new to the internet and don’t know what i am doing."            – anonymous

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Question:

The recent discussion of fishing vests reminds me that I got the advice to buy a fishing vest one size larger than normal.  This way the vest won’t fit too tightly once you have the pockets loaded. Just 2 cents that I was given and am passing along. Dave

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Wearing a FF vest one size larger also allows you to add extra layers of clothing underneath in cold weather.

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: : The recent discussion of fishing vests reminds me that I got the : advice to buy a fishing vest one size larger than normal.  This way : the vest won’t fit too tightly once you have the pockets loaded. Or, in my case, put on a bit of poundage over the years.  Time to get on that damn Nordic Trac. — Tom

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: : The recent discussion of fishing vests reminds me that I got the : advice to buy a fishing vest one size larger than normal.  This way : the vest won’t fit too tightly once you have the pockets loaded. Or, in my case, put on a bit of poundage over the years.  Time to get on that damn Nordic Trac.

But then again, a Wood River bag fits over anything _and_ provides a work surface for openning fly boxes, tying leaders or dressing a fly.   Bags also offer the advantage of helping avoid looking like everyone else. Pete

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