Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name. Why not? Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it ever, "Clark’s River."  

I think the possessive represents who owns the discovery, not who actually owns the river.  We have a bird out here called the Clark’s Nutcracker.  It was named by Clark. Besides, if you remove the apostrophe and keep the s it becomes a plural, not at all what was intended. Chas

Response:

noted diver F Reid notes: out here got it bass ackwards.  The hatches happen when the stinking sun is high and bright!

Come on up to the Tulpehocken when it rains, it is close to the only time I fish the place. I would note that cloudy(not rainy) days are by far the best on Penns for just the reasons Willi observed.                    just wanted to post                    into a thread whose                    title included Waynes Crabs,                    Tom

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name. Why not? Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it ever, "Clark’s River."

BUZZ! Apostrophes are used to denote possession, literal or figurative.  Thus, Deere’s tractors are those designed and or built by a company named after and or founded by one John Deere.  Presumably (I know little of the history of this company or its products) John Deere himself once owned the entire company or at least a controlling interest.  At that time it would have been natural to presume that all the tractors built by the company "belonged" to Mr. Deere in some reasonable literal sense.  After his demise (or other divestiture in the company) none of the tractors would have belonged to him literally but still did so in a figurative sense.  It seems unnatural to those of us familiar with said products to refer to them as Deere’s tractors because common usage dictates that they be referred to as "John Deere" tractors, but there are many other products who’s names do or at least could rely on the possessive apostrophe.  Uncle Ben’s rice comes immediately to mind. Now, I don’t know whether the apostrophe is actually used on this product (instant rice is an abomination……it is not allowed in my pantry), but I suspect that no one would object to its use in this context……whether or not there ever actually WAS an uncle Ben to whom it may or may not have belonged.  There are many other examples of the ambiguity of ownership.  Beethoven may once have owned a fifth or even several, but the odds are that he drank the several (thus making ownership moot while doing nothing to resolve the question of apostrophe’s) and, given copyright conventions (or to put it more bluntly, the lack thereof) of his day, the other one pretty much ceased to belong to him the day it was first aired in public.   And what are we to make of the apostrophe’s use?  What exactly, does it own? Wolfgang

Response:

     …  snip …    …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not  be, an apostrophe in any river name.    Why not?    Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used  example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after  William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it  ever, "Clark’s River."       I think the possessive represents who owns the discovery, not who   actually owns the river.  We have a bird out here called the Clark’s   Nutcracker.  It was named by Clark.     Besides, if you remove the apostrophe and keep the s it becomes a   plural, not at all what was intended. I agree with you Chas. From what I understand, not using an apostrophe was just a convention that was adopted by topographers. I also think that it’s one of those rules that is "violated" so much that either usage is now correct. Willi

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name. Why not? Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it ever, "Clark’s River."   I think the possessive represents who owns the discovery, not who actually owns the river.  

Er, no.  For example, if one actually owns the body of water (such as a pond or lake), then it would be "Clark’s Pond," as opposed to one simply named after someone. We have a bird out here called the Clark’s Nutcracker.  It was named by Clark.

Are you sure?  Maybe it named for Clark’s Nutcracker… Besides, if you remove the apostrophe and keep the s it becomes a plural, not at all what was intended. Chas

You’re actually a pair of Cha? TC, R

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name. Why not? Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it ever, "Clark’s River." BUZZ! Apostrophes are used to denote possession, literal or figurative.  Thus, Deere’s tractors are those designed and or built by a company named after and or founded by one John Deere.  Presumably (I know little of the history of this company or its products) John Deere himself once owned the entire company or at least a controlling interest.  At that time it would have been natural to presume that all the tractors built by the company "belonged" to Mr. Deere in some reasonable literal sense.  After his demise (or other divestiture in the company) none of the tractors would have belonged to him literally but still did so in a figurative sense.  It seems unnatural to those of us familiar with said products to refer to them as Deere’s tractors because common usage dictates that they be referred to as "John Deere" tractors, but there are many other products who’s names do or at least could rely on the possessive apostrophe.  Uncle Ben’s rice comes immediately to mind. Now, I don’t know whether the apostrophe is actually used on this product (instant rice is an abomination……it is not allowed in my pantry), but I suspect that no one would object to its use in this context……whether or not there ever actually WAS an uncle Ben to whom it may or may not have belonged.  There are many other examples of the ambiguity of ownership.  Beethoven may once have owned a fifth or even several, but the odds are that he drank the several (thus making ownership moot while doing nothing to resolve the question of apostrophe’s) and, given copyright conventions (or to put it more bluntly, the lack thereof) of his day, the other one pretty much ceased to belong to him the day it was first aired in public.   And what are we to make of the apostrophe’s use?  What exactly, does it own? Wolfgang

BZZT! Both John Deere and Uncle Ben’s are trade names, and so, they are meaningless as to the grammar, spelling, etc. – you could have "Clark’s Klarcs Barz," whose slogan is "Made with Uncle Ben’z Arrowz, so eat ‘em on Jonn Deare’s tractors…" TC, R

Response:

   Trout are much more likely to feed on the surface during cloudy weather.        Willi             Yah know Willi, I grew up with that.  From California and Korea to the UK     and Germany.  Fishing ain’t worth a damn unless its cloudy with a bit of     wind to break up the surface.  Came out the the right coast, didn’t go     fishing unless the day was cloudy so I could hit a hatch.  Guess what, these     suckers out here got it bass ackwards.  The hatches happen when the stinking     sun is high and bright!  Jeez-O-Pete!  I was here a year before I found a     decent hatch.  Can’t they do anything right out here? There was an argument about this earlier on ROFF but I believe that some insects hatch out more prolifically during inclement weather. BWO’s fit into this catagory. However, agree with that or not, trout don’t like bright direct sunlight. Especially in low clear water, trout are reluctant to come out and establish feeding  stations to surface feed on a bright sunny day. The other day was a good example. I was out early and the fish were avidly feeding on emerging Trico duns. Then the sun became direct on the water and the feeding stopped even though the spinner fall that happened later resulted in more bugs on the water than when the duns were hatching and they were easier pickings because they are dead. Willi Willi

Response:

in jan 2001, wally and i resorted to traveling up to tennessee to fish the watauga tailwater.  all the streams in the mountains of nc were frozen over and unfishable – really.  the only time we saw bugs coming off (wally says they were bwo) was when the sun shone for a while.  the fish would get active and we’d catch the hell out of them.  then the sun would go behind the clouds and the hatch would stop, along with the catch. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Trout are much more likely to feed on the surface during cloudy weather.   Willi   Yah know Willi, I grew up with that.  From California and Korea to the UK   and Germany.  Fishing ain’t worth a damn unless its cloudy with a bit of   wind to break up the surface.  Came out the the right coast, didn’t go   fishing unless the day was cloudy so I could hit a hatch.  Guess what, these   suckers out here got it bass ackwards.  The hatches happen when the stinking   sun is high and bright!  Jeez-O-Pete!  I was here a year before I found a   decent hatch.  Can’t they do anything right out here? There was an argument about this earlier on ROFF but I believe that some insects hatch out more prolifically during inclement weather. BWO’s fit into this catagory. However, agree with that or not, trout don’t like bright direct sunlight. Especially in low clear water, trout are reluctant to come out and establish feeding  stations to surface feed on a bright sunny day. The other day was a good example. I was out early and the fish were avidly feeding on emerging Trico duns. Then the sun became direct on the water and the feeding stopped even though the spinner fall that happened later resulted in more bugs on the water than when the duns were hatching and they were easier pickings because they are dead. Willi Willi

Response:

yeah, yeah…but i was talking about fork flies…<g. jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name. Why not? Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it ever, "Clark’s River." BUZZ! Apostrophes are used to denote possession, literal or figurative.  Thus, Deere’s tractors are those designed and or built by a company named after and or founded by one John Deere.  Presumably (I know little of the history of this company or its products) John Deere himself once owned the entire company or at least a controlling interest.  At that time it would have been natural to presume that all the tractors built by the company "belonged" to Mr. Deere in some reasonable literal sense.  After his demise (or other divestiture in the company) none of the tractors would have belonged to him literally but still did so in a figurative sense.  It seems unnatural to those of us familiar with said products to refer to them as Deere’s tractors because common usage dictates that they be referred to as "John Deere" tractors, but there are many other products who’s names do or at least could rely on the possessive apostrophe.  Uncle Ben’s rice comes immediately to mind. Now, I don’t know whether the apostrophe is actually used on this product (instant rice is an abomination……it is not allowed in my pantry), but I suspect that no one would object to its use in this context……whether or not there ever actually WAS an uncle Ben to whom it may or may not have belonged.  There are many other examples of the ambiguity of ownership.  Beethoven may once have owned a fifth or even several, but the odds are that he drank the several (thus making ownership moot while doing nothing to resolve the question of apostrophe’s) and, given copyright conventions (or to put it more bluntly, the lack thereof) of his day, the other one pretty much ceased to belong to him the day it was first aired in public.   And what are we to make of the apostrophe’s use?  What exactly, does it own? Wolfgang

Response:

Trout are much more likely to feed on the surface during cloudy weather. Willi

Yah know Willi, I grew up with that.  From California and Korea to the UK and Germany.  Fishing ain’t worth a damn unless its cloudy with a bit of wind to break up the surface.  Came out the the right coast, didn’t go fishing unless the day was cloudy so I could hit a hatch.  Guess what, these suckers out here got it bass ackwards.  The hatches happen when the stinking sun is high and bright!  Jeez-O-Pete!  I was here a year before I found a decent hatch.  Can’t they do anything right out here? — Frank Reid Reverse email to reply

Response:

…  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name.

Why not? Chas

Response:

you’re one evil geezer…<g jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jeff Miller writes: …i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode. just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as good for hf… also, my pal waldo sent me a huge selection on approval Well, I hope there will be some dry fly action, Jeffy.  It’s beginning to look like Fortenberry was right.  The long term forcast calls for "snow showers" in that part of Idaho during the clave.  Damn, Fortenberry, FORTENBERRY, was right.  Looks like I’m gonna hafta rent the Humvee instead of the Lincoln.  Why didn’t Warren warn us about this?   d;o)

Response:

…  snip … …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name. Why not?

Because to do so indicates it is owned by the person.  An oft-used example, and an easy way to remember, is Clarks River, named after William Clark – it isn’t his, and never was – IOW, it isn’t, nor was it ever, "Clark’s River."   TC, R – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Chas

Response:

i will self-flagellate while facing southwest…<g jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – …i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode. just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as good for hf… also, my pal waldo sent me a huge selection on approval that he thought might garner a look from an idaho trout… thanks fellers… it’ll be fun fishin the flies you picked, and i can blame your poor selections if i don’t do too well. <g oh…and wayne hart sent me a box of his "crab" flies to test on the carolina redfish this fall.  an interesting creation, and can’t wait to give em a try. thanks wayne… thought i’d give a public "thank you" simply to underscore a bit of the benefits of this place. jeff Ah…from the subject header, I thought your esteemed colleague had been, er, "Mercedes shopping in all the wrong places…"  Weren’t sure why you were thanking him, though… <G…outside the box, doncha know… TC, R …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name.

Response:

…i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode. just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as good for hf… also, my pal waldo sent me a huge selection on approval that he thought might garner a look from an idaho trout… thanks fellers… it’ll be fun fishin the flies you picked, and i can blame your poor selections if i don’t do too well. <g oh…and wayne hart sent me a box of his "crab" flies to test on the carolina redfish this fall.  an interesting creation, and can’t wait to give em a try. thanks wayne… thought i’d give a public "thank you" simply to underscore a bit of the benefits of this place. jeff

Response:

Jeff Miller writes: …i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode. just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as good for hf… also, my pal waldo sent me a huge selection on approval

Well, I hope there will be some dry fly action, Jeffy.  It’s beginning to look like Fortenberry was right.  The long term forcast calls for "snow showers" in that part of Idaho during the clave.  Damn, Fortenberry, FORTENBERRY, was right.  Looks like I’m gonna hafta rent the Humvee instead of the Lincoln.  Why didn’t Warren warn us about this?   d;o)

Response:

Here’s a couple items for the Henry’s Forkers: An updated report has been posted to HF Anglers website: http://www.henrysforkanglers.com The flow is working it’s way down, but it’s still higher than last September so far.  900 cfs in Island Park would be ideal for waders: http://waterdata.usgs.gov/id/nwis/uv/?site_no=13042500&PARAmeter_cd=0… 060 And if anyone wants to send me some flies or a new 3 pc, 9′ 5 weight XP, I’ll try em out on the Fork  The XP would be especially handy. bruce h

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -…i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode. just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as good for hf… also, my pal waldo sent me a huge selection on approval that he thought might garner a look from an idaho trout… thanks fellers… it’ll be fun fishin the flies you picked, and i can blame your poor selections if i don’t do too well. <g oh…and wayne hart sent me a box of his "crab" flies to test on the carolina redfish this fall.  an interesting creation, and can’t wait to give em a try. thanks wayne… thought i’d give a public "thank you" simply to underscore a bit of the benefits of this place. jeff

Ah…from the subject header, I thought your esteemed colleague had been, er, "Mercedes shopping in all the wrong places…"  Weren’t sure why you were thanking him, though… <G…outside the box, doncha know… TC, R …oh, and a slight nit to pick – there is not, or rather, should not be, an apostrophe in any river name.

Response:

…i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode. just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as good for hf… also, my pal waldo sent me a huge selection on approval Well, I hope there will be some dry fly action, Jeffy.  It’s beginning to look like Fortenberry was right.  The long term forcast calls for "snow showers" in that part of Idaho during the clave.  Damn, Fortenberry, FORTENBERRY, was right.  Looks like I’m gonna hafta rent the Humvee instead of the Lincoln.  Why didn’t Warren warn us about this?  

Can you believe that long term forecast!  The Climate Prediction Center shows above average temps and above average precip for that time frame.   http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/ All in all, it looks like good streamer weather…..

Response:

RockTrout writes: Can you believe that long term forecast!  The Climate Prediction Center shows above average temps and above average precip for that time frame.  

Fortenberry knows that region very, very well.  He spent all of his adult life there — what…. two years?…. so I’m *sure* it’s gonna snow.  I wish Warren had warned us.   d;o)

Response:

    Can you believe that long term forecast!  The Climate Prediction   Center shows above average temps and above average precip for that time   frame.     http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/     All in all, it looks like good streamer weather….. Long range forecasts like that are wrong as often as they’re right but cloudy days would be great for dry fly fishing for a number of reasons. IMO, BWO hatches are much heavier when there is cloud cover. The Olives will probably be the most prolific hatch while we are at Henrys. Trout are much more likely to feed on the surface during cloudy weather. The trout are less "fussy" during cloudy weather. You don’t need as good of a match. Trout are less spooky and wary and you can usually go with heavier tippet. If it’s cloudy, I’ll be fishing the ranch. Willi

Response:

  …i’m in idaho pre-trip jitter mode.     just ordered a sampler platter of flies from harry mason he selected as   good for hf… I think you’ll be pleased with Harry’s flies. The flies he offers are VERY well tied and many are different from "normal" ties which is especially good, IMO, on hard fished water like Henrys Fork. Willi

Response:

  Here’s a couple items for the Henry’s Forkers:     An updated report has been posted to HF Anglers website:     http://www.henrysforkanglers.com     The flow is working it’s way down, but it’s still higher than last September   so far.  900 cfs in Island Park would be ideal for waders:     http://waterdata.usgs.gov/id/nwis/uv/?site_no=13042500&PARAmeter_cd=0…   060     And if anyone wants to send me some flies or a new 3 pc, 9′ 5 weight XP,   I’ll try em out on the Fork  The XP would be especially handy. You know there are trout rods in other than five weight, you have enough 5 weights. You need to broaden your arsenal. Willi

Response:

What I need is a bunch of stupid trout It’s raining here right now- hoping to hit the Clarks Fork tonight- I understand the river has been something close to phenominal the last few days jh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   Can you believe that long term forecast!  The Climate Prediction   Center shows above average temps and above average precip for that time   frame.   http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/   All in all, it looks like good streamer weather….. Long range forecasts like that are wrong as often as they’re right but cloudy days would be great for dry fly fishing for a number of reasons. IMO, BWO hatches are much heavier when there is cloud cover. The Olives will probably be the most prolific hatch while we are at Henrys. Trout are much more likely to feed on the surface during cloudy weather. The trout are less "fussy" during cloudy weather. You don’t need as good of a match. Trout are less spooky and wary and you can usually go with heavier tippet. If it’s cloudy, I’ll be fishing the ranch. Willi

Response:

 I would agree, if the clouds roll in I would think the BWO would be the ticket. The Wind, IMO, is more of a problem than no bugs…. HM – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you believe that long term forecast!  The Climate Prediction Center shows above average temps and above average precip for that time frame. http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/predictions/814day/ All in all, it looks like good streamer weather….. Long range forecasts like that are wrong as often as they’re right but cloudy days would be great for dry fly fishing for a number of reasons. IMO, BWO hatches are much heavier when there is cloud cover. The Olives will probably be the most prolific hatch while we are at Henrys. Trout are much more likely to feed on the surface during cloudy weather. The trout are less "fussy" during cloudy weather. You don’t need as good of a match. Trout are less spooky and wary and you can usually go with heavier tippet. If it’s cloudy, I’ll be fishing the ranch. Willi

Response:

Question:

I got an Outcast Fat Cat 66 VBoat for my birthday  and spent the day fishing a lovely pond on the edge of town. A friend who works for CO DOW gave me a tip on a low-pressure piece of stocked water and man oh man was he right! I have never in my life had a more productive day of fly fishing. This was my first time floating and I’m just amazed at the experience. I would like to meet other float tubers in the Boulder/Front Range area who would like to get together and fish. Reply here. Woo Hoo! Oh, btw, I’m 38. -bh

Response:

I got an Outcast Fat Cat 66 VBoat for my birthday  and spent the day fishing a lovely pond on the edge of town. A friend who works for CO DOW gave me a tip on a low-pressure piece of stocked water and man oh man was he right! I have never in my life had a more productive day of fly fishing. This was my first time floating and I’m just amazed at the experience. I would like to meet other float tubers in the Boulder/Front Range area who would like to get together and fish. Reply here. Woo Hoo! Oh, btw, I’m 38. -bh

Happy Birthday, B! Got me one of these devices too, but never got to try it. Blew up (Booom) on the first trip. Never reached the water though, lucky me! Just got a replacement innertube, if I dare to use it… Tight lines and safe floats! Stefan, Sweden

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Question:

Look, you ignorant fool.  I’ll mess with you until hell freezes over. If I remember correctly, (and I do) she wanted the address so we could send a massive surprise to everyone attending – Perhaps they had no reason to believe that. Perhaps Waldo wasn’t in the habit of giving out addresses over the phone to people who don’t identify themselves. I don’t blame him if that’s the reason. _____NO.  You are NOT an honest person and businessman.  You gripe too much, you have a temper that is unreasonable and you always make sure you get your pound of flesh when you’re wrong . . . which is often. THAT, my dear pal is a fact of life regarding you.

oh man, this is really rich. George, the "psycho" analyst see ya george, walt

Response:

There you go, sugar coating your anti-georgian diatribes agian. Com’on Wolfie.  Take the gloves off <g.

Georgie has always brought out the best in me, as he has in all of us. We have much to thank him for. Or, as the inimitable Mr. Johnson once put it, "No one could possibly think more highly of him than I do, and I do not think much of him at all."      :)

Response:

[deleted] I have to go back to the Mayo Clinic this week end.  If I walk out of it, you have a date.

Don’t even think about not walking out. Ain’t an option. There’s damned few of us left as it is. I’m going to log off now and say the best prayer that I know how. We’re with ya George. Your pal. — TBone

Response:

I have to go back to the Mayo Clinic this week end.  If I walk out of it, you have a date.

Best of luck to you, George, you miserable sack of shit. Are you having your plumbing upgraded? — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Wolfgang Siebeneich wrote … Did it never occur to you, you miserable fucking excuse for a human being that there might be people on this planet to whom an added expense, however small, might actually be a burden?  And did it never occur to you that the contributions already made by the people who brought off this clave are already a great deal more than you could ever hope to do despite your wealth?  Remember the parable of the poor woman who gave all that she had, you worthless piece of excrement? "…one cents worth"?  You vastly overestimate your value.

There you go, sugar coating your anti-georgian diatribes agian. Com’on Wolfie.  Take the gloves off <g. —                                                       -dnc-

Response:

I have to go back to the Mayo Clinic this week end.  If I walk out of it, you have a date. Best of luck to you, George, you miserable sack of shit. Are you having your plumbing upgraded?

medical center.  They not only love my money they love me as many doctors are fly fishermen.  If I have a chance at all, I’m in the right place rw. I could say I hope your wife leaves you, or your kids fails in school but the ultimate insult would be to wish your dog dies which I won’t do.  Therefore, I hope your wife leaves you and marries her boy friend and that I end up with your dog.  How’s that for miserable shit? : ) — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

medical center.  They not only love my money they love me as many doctors are fly fishermen.  If I have a chance at all, I’m in the right place rw. I could say I hope your wife leaves you, or your kids fails in school but the ultimate insult would be to wish your dog dies which I won’t do.  Therefore, I hope your wife leaves you and marries her boy friend and that I end up with your dog.

That’s looking more and more probable all the time. You’ll never get my dog, though. Again, George, good luck. Listen to the doctors. Do what they say. Don’t be a pain in the ass. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – medical center.  They not only love my money they love me as many doctors are fly fishermen.  If I have a chance at all, I’m in the right place rw. I could say I hope your wife leaves you, or your kids fails in school but the ultimate insult would be to wish your dog dies which I won’t do.  Therefore, I hope your wife leaves you and marries her boy friend and that I end up with your dog. That’s looking more and more probable all the time. You’ll never get my dog, though. Again, George, good luck. Listen to the doctors. Do what they say. Don’t be a pain in the ass. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/

_____  I am never that.  I’m the kind of patient doctors love.  I’m a fighter.  I walked out of the Mayo Clinic 13 years ago after my by-passes in five days and flew my own airplane home.  It was a new Mayo Clinic record.  If I die, it will be Walt Winters fault. — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

George writes: I have to go back to the Mayo Clinic this week end.  If I walk out of it, you have a date. Good luck, George. Dave LaCourse

______  These will be the last words I will take with me when they apply the gas David. Thanks, — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

  I know for a fact that Doug Knight donated some mighty fine flies and he never got a thank you, go to hell or kiss my ass.  If my memory serves me right, his flies never were delivered or there was a short-coming which really isn’t my business that upset him.  I know the man was not pleased the way his donation was handled.

George, Doug’s Flies were raffled at the Fall Ball as they didn’t reach Wayno’s clave in time. He was made aware of that. I know it’s none of my business, but since it concerns roff, have you paid back Doug yet all that money, it has been a year? I’m also annoyed that none of my prizes were not shipped to me.  Walt Winter kept them.

George, I kept your winnings from the first raffle and re-entered them in the fall ball in a moment of heartfelt concern. My mistake,  I should have sent them you… Various non-gink floatants and Orvis products. I guess I should have sent them to you so you could at least see what the hell a quality product is like. George, I would have guessed that you would know better by now not to mess with me. BTW, you spineless twit, having Gladys call me anonymously prior to the clave to acquire centrals address was really in poor taste. It was fun listening to her stammer as I kept asking her who I was speaking to. You go George, you really do, straight to hell. Unlike you George, I am an honest person and businessman. I repeat.  If you guys can’t afford the shipping of prizes, I will back the clave up.  Its the least I can do for the clave.

George, here’s a silver tael, buy yourself a casket.   I just had other matters to look after that were beyond my control. Dementia? See ya pal, Waldo

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Walt quotes and writes:   I know for a fact that Doug Knight donated some mighty fine flies and he never got a thank you, go to hell or kiss my ass.  If my memory serves me right, his flies never were delivered or there was a short-coming which really isn’t my business that upset him.  I know the man was not pleased the way his donation was handled. George, Doug’s Flies were raffled at the Fall Ball as they didn’t reach Wayno’s clave in time. He was made aware of that. I know it’s none of my business, but since it concerns roff, have you paid back Doug yet all that money, it has been a year? I’m also annoyed that none of my prizes were not shipped to me.  Walt Winter kept them. George, I kept your winnings from the first raffle and re-entered them in the fall ball in a moment of heartfelt concern. My mistake,  I should have sent them you… Various non-gink floatants and Orvis products. I guess I should have sent them to you so you could at least see what the hell a quality product is like. George, I would have guessed that you would know better by now not to mess with me. BTW, you spineless twit, having Gladys call me anonymously prior to the clave to acquire centrals address was really in poor taste. It was fun listening to her stammer as I kept asking her who I was speaking to. You go George, you really do, straight to hell. Unlike you George, I am an honest person and businessman. I repeat.  If you guys can’t afford the shipping of prizes, I will back the clave up.  Its the least I can do for the clave. George, here’s a silver tael, buy yourself a casket. I just had other matters to look after that were beyond my control. Dementia? See ya pal, Waldo

Doug Knight’s flies were won by someone at the fall ball and we all raved about the quality of the flies.  It was one of the most coveted of gifts.  I believe Doug won something, I can not recall what, and it was either shipped to him or he turned it down.   My biggest concern about Doug is wondering if he ever got paid for the rods he built.   George won one of my donations to the May Clave 1999.  I believe it was a bottle of floatant and some strike indicators, all marketed by Orvis.  If George would like, I will purchase more of the same and *gladly* send them to him.  But, he has to promise to use them and not throw them in the trash can. <g Dave  d;0)

Response:

< snipped a lot of vocal diarrhea Mr. G.

Damn, every time I think he is finally gone he shows up again. Turn on your filters. Ernie Harrison

Response:

  I know for a fact that Doug Knight donated some mighty fine flies and he never got a thank you, go to hell or kiss my ass.  If my memory serves me right, his flies never were delivered or there was a short-coming which really isn’t my business that upset him.  I know the man was not pleased the way his donation was handled. George, Doug’s Flies were raffled at the Fall Ball as they didn’t reach Wayno’s clave in time. He was made aware of that. I know it’s none of my business, but since it concerns roff, have you paid back Doug yet all that money, it has been a year?

______  Well frankly, it’s none of your business, is it?   I’m also annoyed that none of my prizes were not shipped to me.  Walt Winter kept them. George, I kept your winnings from the first raffle and re-entered them in the fall ball in a moment of heartfelt concern. My mistake,  I should have sent them you… Various non-gink floatants and Orvis products. I guess I should have sent them to you so you could at least see what the hell a quality product is like. George, I would have guessed that you would know better by now not to mess with me. BTW, you spineless twit, having Gladys call me anonymously prior to the clave to acquire centrals address was really in poor taste. It was fun listening to her stammer as I kept asking her who I was speaking to. You go George, you really do, straight to hell.

Look, you ignorant fool.  I’ll mess with you until hell freezes over. If I remember correctly, (and I do) she wanted the address so we could send a massive surprise to everyone attending – but because of YOU, you ungrateful moron, everyone didn’t get the shipment.  Talk about spineless twit, that best describes you and your continued name calling only lowers you.  I’ve had you figured out for a long time pal and you are frankly "a user."  As long as something benefits YOU, you’re all for it.  Anytime you touch anything, there has to be a hook in it so you can get your share.  Why is that Walt? Yes, I don’t care what the prizes were, you had no right to auction off the prizes, as you said.  The question is, where is my money?  Another way to ask it, is what did you DO with the money?  Use it to help pay shipping costs? What is so lousy about you is your sense of fun.   Unlike you George, I am an honest person and businessman.

_____NO.  You are NOT an honest person and businessman.  You gripe too much, you have a temper that is unreasonable and you always make sure you get your pound of flesh when you’re wrong . . . which is often. THAT, my dear pal is a fact of life regarding you.   I repeat.  If you guys can’t afford the shipping of prizes, I will back the clave up.  Its the least I can do for the clave. George, here’s a silver tael, buy yourself a casket.

______  Well, I’ll let you buy my casket with all the money you seem to squeeze out of everyone with your ’surprise tactics’.  I’m sure when I die, no one of your caliber will be able to fill the void.  Dying for me will be soon enough.  I’m sure that news will make your day.     I just had other matters to look after that were beyond my control. Dementia? See ya pal,

______ I’m sure when you do, the pleasure will be all yours.   Waldo (The cry-baby of ROFF) The man that always bites the hands that feed him.  

– Just remember this Walt.  This thread started with an offer by us to help with the prizes being shipped.  If you can’t handle it, let a man do the job next time.  I certainly was impressed with daytripper’s efforts and post this morning.  Why is that? Because its the WAY he does things.  He and I may have differences but at least he has a real ’sense’ for fairness.  That, I will give him. You, on the other hand, are nothing more than a hustler. This is my final answer. Mr.G http://www.gink.com

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George, here’s a silver tael, buy yourself a casket.

Um, wouidn’t that be a pyre on a float boat?  Send it UPS…

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_______  It appears to me that your false misgivings regarding others is a continued sham of lies.  

That you’re a miserable excuse for a person? That isn’t a lie. It’s an opinion. An extreme one, but defensible. I am not old

Just old enough to fly an F-86 upside down over the Kremlin during the Korean War… If shipping is a ball breaker, then there is such a thing as Shipping C.O.D. <snip I’m also annoyed that none of my prizes were not shipped to me.  Walt Winter kept them.

Maybe they shipped UPS? "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

Response:

Dear Mr G    Have never hearde your biographicsal stories but hope you will join me at Western clave for some fishing time. You must have some good stories because the guys at the claves always mentiomn them. This last clave was sort of a bummer for me.  Only three or four of the guys were willing to give up a day of fishing with new friends to suffer thru a day watching me hang up in trees  and watching the fish exit the pools before I could get set up for casting standing in the middle of the pool. One guy even took pictures of me fishing and showed them to the crowd at night,  showing no real concern for a  brginner like me who is real bashful  and self conscinus.  I was not lucky at the raaffel as I won only a reel and a matching line, not a single fly!! And some of those guys a really cheap.  Tom  probably spent a couple of hundred dollars feeding everyone and Walt  only invest a couple of hundred in the clave package everyone received when they arrived.The worst thing was Palmico Jim  who drank one half of a boddle of Reserve Wild Turkey someone donated, that only left half a bottle for me.  Hope you western guys tread Indians a little better , and the fish are easier to catch,  Indian Joe

Response:

Look, you ignorant fool.  I’ll mess with you until hell freezes over. If I remember correctly, (and I do) she wanted the address so we could send a massive surprise to everyone attending –

Perhaps they had no reason to believe that. Perhaps Waldo wasn’t in the habit of giving out addresses over the phone to people who don’t identify themselves. I don’t blame him if that’s the reason. _____NO.  You are NOT an honest person and businessman.  You gripe too much, you have a temper that is unreasonable and you always make sure you get your pound of flesh when you’re wrong . . . which is often. THAT, my dear pal is a fact of life regarding you.  

Have you paid Doug Knight yet? "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

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That would be a waste of a good float boat, how about a box of matches and an old inner tube? Ernie

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – George, here’s a silver tael, buy yourself a casket. Um, wouidn’t that be a pyre on a float boat?  Send it UPS…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dear Mr G    Have never hearde your biographicsal stories but hope you will join me at Western clave for some fishing time. You must have some good stories because the guys at the claves always mentiomn them. This last clave was sort of a bummer for me.  Only three or four of the guys were willing to give up a day of fishing with new friends to suffer thru a day watching me hang up in trees  and watching the fish exit the pools before I could get set up for casting standing in the middle of the pool. One guy even took pictures of me fishing and showed them to the crowd at night,  showing no real concern for a  brginner like me who is real bashful  and self conscinus.  I was not lucky at the raaffel as I won only a reel and a matching line, not a single fly!! And some of those guys a really cheap.  Tom  probably spent a couple of hundred dollars feeding everyone and Walt  only invest a couple of hundred in the clave package everyone received when they arrived.The worst thing was Palmico Jim  who drank one half of a boddle of Reserve Wild Turkey someone donated, that only left half a bottle for me.  Hope you western guys tread Indians a little better , and the fish are easier to catch,  Indian Joe

_____  Well Joe, you wouldn’t be pulling my chain now, would you?  LOL. If it is possible, I would be pleased to go fishing with you.  Just you and I.  Tom has a big heart and is a first class act.  No doubting that Joseph.   I have to go back to the Mayo Clinic this week end.  If I walk out of it, you have a date. — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

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Have you paid Doug Knight yet? "My father said to be strong, ‘that a good man could  never do wrong’ in a dream I had last night in America"                             -Los Lobos

_____ Do you still beat your wife Mike? — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/shopcart/index.html

Response:

George writes: I have to go back to the Mayo Clinic this week end.  If I walk out of it, you have a date.

Good luck, George. Dave LaCourse

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My one cents worth gents…. If you guys are too cheap to handle the shipping, ship all the prizes and send me the bill.  I’ll pay for it.  Its the least I can do for my fellow "Sportsmen".

You know George, after determining that you truly are a sick man, I had promised myself that I would no longer respond to any more of your demented ravings, but this latest attempt to aggrandize yourself at the expense of someone who has gone to a great deal of trouble and expense to provide a wonderful experience to a lot of people to whom he owed nothing is really too much to bear silently.  Did it never occur to you, you miserable fucking excuse for a human being that there might be people on this planet to whom an added expense, however small, might actually be a burden?  And did it never occur to you that the contributions already made by the people who brought off this clave are already a great deal more than you could ever hope to do despite your wealth?  Remember the parable of the poor woman who gave all that she had, you worthless piece of excrement? "…one cents worth"?  You vastly overestimate your value.

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_____  I was supposed to get my prize last year, which I never got. Guess SOMEONE must have sold it to start up his business? Frankly, I think there should be a silent auction AFTER Roff decides to support a faction regarding trout and/or streams.  I think using funds to support a newsletter or a favorite Catch and Release Stream (making T-Bone the President) might have merit. There is nothing wrong with Roff that thinking of improving our sport wouldn’t help. When a conclave has finished and so many complaints are written regarding "some thoughts" as found in a bad "After Drink" I would say the stream has some rogue fish in it. My one cents worth gents.  Anyone who bitches about shipping expenses is nothing more than a cheap date.  Ship the dang prizes because that is the department the prize holders KNEW was part of the deal.  Why cause trouble and make others feel they are trouble to others for winning?  I would think any one of the touted lawyers could afford at least that expense for the Conclave. If you guys are too cheap to handle the shipping, ship all the prizes and send me the bill.  I’ll pay for it.  Its the least I can do for my fellow "Sportsmen".   — Mr.G http://www.gink.com/chat

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snipped stupidity: _______  It appears to me that your false misgivings regarding others is a continued sham of lies.  I am not old and I’m not demented and I’m certainly not stooping to silly ravings.  It’s you that goes over board to defame others you piece of worthless mouse shit.  It is not me that is crying about expenses and what you take to be an aggrandizement is indeed a false charge. Listen ace.  I’m not the one that is bitching and complaining about anything except the complaining that continues regarding the prizes at all the ‘Eastern Conclaves?’  I didn’t start it but I’m certainly able to assist in it.  Whoever is in control of distributing the prizes needs to pay for the shipping.  He or They KNEW that was part of the deal. Why cry in public about what it takes to ship things?  The shipping charges should be part of "That Person’s" donation to making the conclave a success.  Are you trying to tell me and everyone now that THAT wasn’t ‘assumed’ or known, or a fact of life issue?  If shipping is a ball breaker, then there is such a thing as Shipping C.O.D. No it doesn’t occur to me that anyone that can travel to a conclave to have fun with ‘the boys,’ is hurting financially.  I’m just tired of listening to the gripes and bickering and poor me alligator tears that continue since the first time around regarding prize problems.  I know for a fact that Doug Knight donated some mighty fine flies and he never got a thank you, go to hell or kiss my ass.  If my memory serves me right, his flies never were delivered or there was a short-coming which really isn’t my business that upset him.  I know the man was not pleased the way his donation was handled.  I’m also annoyed that none of my prizes were not shipped to me.  Walt Winter kept them.  Let’s call it the way it is. He never followed through.  I regard that as a cheap shot just like some who cannot afford to get the gifts to the people who won and deserved them.  Get it pal?  (Or hasn’t your elevator reached the top floor yet?) Look, its alright for me to donate expensive fly rods to charity and for worthwhile causes, right?  But when it comes my turn to get a cheap T-shirt – I don’t rate? Give me a break!  And that isn’t all of it pal. So I would appreciate it if you would continue to mind your own business Wolfgang and stop talking about those things you know little or nothing about.  Okay? I repeat.  If you guys can’t afford the shipping of prizes, I will back the clave up.  Its the least I can do for the clave. Incidentally Wolfgang, you stooping to name calling of others really is uncalled for. Sometimes, principle is more valuable and is the cement of friendships.  I certainly have the sense that there are some who are not happy about certain prize events.  All I’m saying is if there is a financial problem, I’m here to help with it even though I didn’t attend the conclave (as much as I wanted to).  I just had other matters to look after that were beyond my control. Mr. G.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – snipped stupidity: _______  It appears to me that your false misgivings regarding others is a continued sham of lies.  I am not old and I’m not demented and I’m certainly not stooping to silly ravings.  It’s you that goes over board to defame others you piece of worthless mouse shit.  It is not me that is crying about expenses and what you take to be an aggrandizement is indeed a false charge. Listen ace.  I’m not the one that is bitching and complaining about anything except the complaining that continues regarding the prizes at all the ‘Eastern Conclaves?’  I didn’t start it but I’m certainly able to assist in it.  Whoever is in control of distributing the prizes needs to pay for the shipping.  He or They KNEW that was part of the deal. Why cry in public about what it takes to ship things?  The shipping charges should be part of "That Person’s" donation to making the conclave a success.  Are you trying to tell me and everyone now that THAT wasn’t ‘assumed’ or known, or a fact of life issue?  If shipping is a ball breaker, then there is such a thing as Shipping C.O.D. No it doesn’t occur to me that anyone that can travel to a conclave to have fun with ‘the boys,’ is hurting financially.  I’m just tired of listening to the gripes and bickering and poor me alligator tears that continue since the first time around regarding prize problems.  I know for a fact that Doug Knight donated some mighty fine flies and he never got a thank you, go to hell or kiss my ass.  If my memory serves me right, his flies never were delivered or there was a short-coming which really isn’t my business that upset him.  I know the man was not pleased the way his donation was handled.  I’m also annoyed that none of my prizes were not shipped to me.  Walt Winter kept them.  Let’s call it the way it is. He never followed through.  I regard that as a cheap shot just like some who cannot afford to get the gifts to the people who won and deserved them.  Get it pal?  (Or hasn’t your elevator reached the top floor yet?) Look, its alright for me to donate expensive fly rods to charity and for worthwhile causes, right?  But when it comes my turn to get a cheap T-shirt – I don’t rate? Give me a break!  And that isn’t all of it pal. So I would appreciate it if you would continue to mind your own business Wolfgang and stop talking about those things you know little or nothing about.  Okay? I repeat.  If you guys can’t afford the shipping of prizes, I will back the clave up.  Its the least I can do for the clave. Incidentally Wolfgang, you stooping to name calling of others really is uncalled for. Sometimes, principle is more valuable and is the cement of friendships.  I certainly have the sense that there are some who are not happy about certain prize events.  All I’m saying is if there is a financial problem, I’m here to help with it even though I didn’t attend the conclave (as much as I wanted to).  I just had other matters to look after that were beyond my control. Mr. G.

ahh G, so good to have you back.  hope you’re doin ok. we all missed you at Waldo’s Spring Fling…there were waterfalls climbed in your absence. jeff

Response:

Question:

I am wondering what type of experiences people have had fishing smallmouth in the Quetico in early September.  We have a group who has gone on several spring trips thinking about a fall trip.  Several of us are fly fishermen, so in particular, I’m wondering if the fish use shallow areas this time of year or if they begin to go deep. Thanks Peter Jonas Iron Mountain, MI

Response:

I am wondering what type of experiences people have had fishing smallmouth in the Quetico in early September.  We have a group who has gone on several spring trips thinking about a fall trip.  Several of us are fly fishermen, so in particular, I’m wondering if the fish use shallow areas this time of year or if they begin to go deep.

        They are still deep in early Sept. Don’t forget they don’t care about the air temp., they care about the water temp. And by the end of Aug. the water is as warm there as it gets. Mornings and evenings might still be okay though. But otherwise think late Sept., early Oct. tgb

Response:

Question:

Thanks to all who replied. After reading some of the posts on this group I have come to one conclusion, you guys are nuts! But I like it!

Yes, we are, and proud to be. Maybe it’s because we don’t have Orvis guide to help us to wear a good sun protection… Have a look at the topic "Christmas Island", You will find nuts and knots… Whatever the shop will do it or you for the first time, learn to do it by yourself. Salut, Philippe * Sent from AltaVista http://www.altavista.com Where you can also find related Web Pages, Images, Audios, Videos, News, and Shopping.  Smart is Beautiful

Response:

Thanks to all who replied. After reading some of the posts on this group I have come to one conclusion, you guys are nuts! But I like it! I think I will let the shop spool it for me this time, while I watch, and then attempt a spare spool myself. Thanks again! YD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me? Since it came as a kit, you should have received the approximately appropriate amount of backing (no gaurantee however).  Your reel should indicate how much backing it can handle for a given (typically weight forward) fly line.  You spool of backing is probably 100 yards. At the shop, they can demonstrate all the knots for you.  Having a knowledgable shop where you feel comfortable and welcome will go a long way in helping out a newbie. Sooner or later you’ll have to learn to do it yourself.  At the shop they can apply tension as they wind the line by using a machine.  I do this myself by poking a pen through the backing spool and then holding the pen with my toes. I apply pressure against the spool with my feet and wind the line with the reel attached to the bottom piece of the fly rod so that the backing goes through the line guide (the biggest guide, closest to the reel is called the stripping guide or stripper, and larger rods usually have two of them, BTW).  You might find it easier to purchase a line winder if you decide you really love the sport and end up with many reels and lines.

Response:

Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me?

Since it came as a kit, you should have received the approximately appropriate amount of backing (no gaurantee however).  Your reel should indicate how much backing it can handle for a given (typically weight forward) fly line.  You spool of backing is probably 100 yards.   At the shop, they can demonstrate all the knots for you.  Having a knowledgable shop where you feel comfortable and welcome will go a long way in helping out a newbie. Sooner or later you’ll have to learn to do it yourself.  At the shop they can apply tension as they wind the line by using a machine.  I do this myself by poking a pen through the backing spool and then holding the pen with my toes. I apply pressure against the spool with my feet and wind the line with the reel attached to the bottom piece of the fly rod so that the backing goes through the line guide (the biggest guide, closest to the reel is called the stripping guide or stripper, and larger rods usually have two of them, BTW).  You might find it easier to purchase a line winder if you decide you really love the sport and end up with many reels and lines.

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writes: Yeah! Take THAT, Dave! Hell, LaPlac has an Orvis guide put his hat on for him<g. — Charlie…

LOL.  I have an Orvis vest and Orvis waders, but no Orvis hat!  However, I do have him start my car — you can never tell with some of the crazies Dave L.      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

Hell, LaPlac has an Orvis guide put his hat on for him<g. — Charlie… LOL.  I have an Orvis vest and Orvis waders, but no Orvis hat!  However, I do have him start my car — you can never tell with some of the crazies Dave L.

Ya, can you imagine the damage an exploding junbo sized bottle of xink would do to the interior of that new A6? Peter

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m also new to fly fishing having used ultra-light tackle for quite a while.  I put my first fly outfit together and thoroughly enjoyed doing it. It was almost as much fun as purchasing it and learning to cast!!!! Yeah! Take THAT, Dave! I’m still ahead, 7 to 2.  You probably paid ol Joe to post that!  <g Dave L.

Know what, Dave? I’m buying a reel and an extra spool for Christmas Island, probably from Bill Kiene, and I expect to have him install the lines and backing. Still, I think it’s a good idea to know how to put on a new line when I have to. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Steve B. writes: Know what, Dave? I’m buying a reel and an extra spool for Christmas Island, probably from Bill Kiene, and I expect to have him install the lines and backing. Still, I think it’s a good idea to know how to put on a new line when I have to.

Just pulling your chain, friend.   Checked out your site for the Western Clave.  Nice. Dave L.

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While I agree that it’s a good idea to have the dealer load your spools if possible, it pays to know how to do it yourself.  Someday you will ruin a fly line while out on a trip and you will need to do it yourself.  I would recommend getting an extra spool, and after watching somebody with experience, load up your extra spool (maybe with another kind of line, like a sinktip or a different taper).  That way you will have seen it done twice plus you’ll have a spare spool already loaded for that day when you’re out on a river and ruin your line. –Stan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Know what, Dave? I’m buying a reel and an extra spool for Christmas Island, probably from Bill Kiene, and I expect to have him install the lines and backing. Still, I think it’s a good idea to know how to put on a new line when I have to. —

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Yeah! Take THAT, Dave!

Hell, LaPlac has an Orvis guide put his hat on for him<g. — Charlie…

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I’m also new to fly fishing having used ultra-light tackle for quite a while.  I put my first fly outfit together and thoroughly enjoyed doing it. It was almost as much fun as purchasing it and learning to cast!!!!   Yeah! Take THAT, Dave!

I’m still ahead, 7 to 2.  You probably paid ol Joe to post that!  <g Dave L.      —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

I’m also new to fly fishing having used ultra-light tackle for quite a while.  I put my first fly outfit together and thoroughly enjoyed doing it. It was almost as much fun as purchasing it and learning to cast!!!!  

Yeah! Take THAT, Dave! — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

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Bill Kiene writes: I would take it to the shop that sold it as it is their job to put it together for you. They can teach you some knots while they are installing properly for you. I would get some casting lessons now so you can practice at the park. By spring you will be ready for those fish.

Hey, rw:  another one for *my* side. Nanna nana na na!   Pfffffft.  d:0) Dave L.

Response:

I’m also new to fly fishing having used ultra-light tackle for quite a while.  I put my first fly outfit together and thoroughly enjoyed doing it. It was almost as much fun as purchasing it and learning to cast!!!!  I recommend a couple of books for you: "Fly-Fisherman’s Primer" by Fling & Puterbaugh; and, "Practical Fishing Knots" by Sosin & Kreh.  I found both of these quite helpful for the beginner.  Also, the following web site is very useful. http://www.myhost.com/flyfishing101/ Have fun, and good luck.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi gang, I am new to this group and to fly fishing. I have been spin fishing for trout and bass for the past 20 yrs. or so, and I have finally decided to give fly fishing a try! I recieved a 9′ #5/6 Redington rod and a #5/6 Redington reel as a Christmas gift. I also got the backing, line, leader, and tippet. Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me? Thanks.

Response:

I would take it to the shop that sold it as it is their job to put it together for you. They can teach you some knots while they are installing properly for you. I would get some casting lessons now so you can practice at the park. By spring you will be ready for those fish. — Bill Kiene Kiene’s Fly Shop http://www.kiene.com

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi gang, I am new to this group and to fly fishing. I have been spin fishing for trout and bass for the past 20 yrs. or so, and I have finally decided to give fly fishing a try! I recieved a 9′ #5/6 Redington rod and a #5/6 Redington reel as a Christmas gift. I also got the backing, line, leader, and tippet. Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me? Thanks. Most shops have a motorized winder and if you bought the gear there, they’re more than happy to load the reel for you.  While they’re doing it, note the knots and methods they’re using.  The next one will be all yours.  :) Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at

http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Warning #1 — Every one of these knots has at least two or three alternatives, with their respective champions. Warning #2 — You need ANOTHER reel, at least as big as your first one, to put the backing on properly. WARNING #3 — Forget all of rw’s trash.  

This is flyfishing trash talk! Yo mama, Dave! OK, OK, he can save some hassle by having the dealer install the backing and flyline, but that’s just delaying the inevitable. One of the most fun things about flyfishing is learning to tie the knots. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Warning #1 — Every one of these knots has at least two or three alternatives, with their respective champions. Warning #2 — You need ANOTHER reel, at least as big as your first one, to put the backing on properly.

WARNING #3 — Forget all of rw’s trash.  Listen to what the majority are saying:  Take the reel, line and backing back to the dealer.  If you bought the reel there, he will probably put in all together for you.  He has the tools, machines and knowledge.  You do not — at least at this time. Watch what they do.  Ask questions.  The next time you buy a new line you can put it on yourself.  You can learn the knots as you go along, YD. There are only a couple that you need right off and that is a double surgeons knot (or blood knot) to tie on your tippet, and a uni-knot, clinch knot or improved clinch to tie on your fly. Dave L.        —–  Posted via NewsOne.Net: Free Usenet News via the Web  —–      —–  http://newsone.net/ —  Discussions on every subject. —–    NewsOne.Net prohibits users from posting spam.  If this or other posts

Response:

"Yankee Dick"write:snipI recieved a 9′ #5/6 Redington rod and a #5/6 Redington reel as a Christmas gift. I also got the backing, line, leader, and tippet. Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me?

First this old Texan will give you a pass on commenting about your name. This is a one time shot and don’t expect anyone else on this newsgroup to be as nice as it simple won’t happen. Yes take them back to the shop from which they were purchased and let them load the reel, but pay attention so that you won’t have to take your next fifty outfits back and depend on someone else to assemble the mess. Big Dale

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Warning #1 — Every one of these knots has at least two or three alternatives, with their respective champions. Warning #2 — You need ANOTHER reel, at least as big as your first one, to put the backing on properly. WARNING #3 — Forget all of rw’s trash. This is flyfishing trash talk! Yo mama, Dave! OK, OK, he can save some hassle by having the dealer install the backing and flyline, but that’s just delaying the inevitable. One of the most fun things about flyfishing is learning to tie the knots.

my attempts at tying a bimini can not be classified as fun <G rw, i invite you fishing anytime… you tie the knots, i fish… we’ll both have a blast <G chris

Response:

Hi gang, I am new to this group and to fly fishing. I have been spin fishing for trout and bass for the past 20 yrs. or so, and I have finally decided to give fly fishing a try! I recieved a 9′ #5/6 Redington rod and a #5/6 Redington reel as a Christmas gift. I also got the backing, line, leader, and tippet. Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me?

Take it to a shop.  Won’t cost you much more (unless you a about to buy an unsuitable line).  They will help you pick a line appropriate for the kind of fishing you plan to do. Also, the will show you a leader formula so you can tie your own, and put the backing and line on the reel for you, all for the cost of materials. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

Hi gang, I am new to this group and to fly fishing. I have been spin fishing for trout and bass for the past 20 yrs. or so, and I have finally decided to give fly fishing a try! I recieved a 9′ #5/6 Redington rod and a #5/6 Redington reel as a Christmas gift. I also got the backing, line, leader, and tippet. Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me? Thanks.

Don’t take it to a dealer. Don’t listen to LaPlac. You’re FLYFISHING now, dude! That means you have to learn a bunch of obscure knots. Use an Arbor Knot to connect the backing to the reel. Use an Albright Knot to connect the backing to the flyline (with Pliobond if you expect to actually use the backing — fighting a fish, that is). Use a Nail Knot to connect the butt section to the flyline. Use a Bloodknot to connect the leader to the butt section, Use a Surgeon’s Knot to connect the tippet to the leader. Use a Uni Knot to connect the fly to the tippet. Warning #1 — Every one of these knots has at least two or three alternatives, with their respective champions. Warning #2 — You need ANOTHER reel, at least as big as your first one, to put the backing on properly. — visit my web site: http://home.earthlink.net/~royalwulff/ something bogus to avoid spam)

Response:

Yankee Dick writes: I recieved a 9′ #5/6 Redington rod and a #5/6 Redington reel as a Christmas gift. I also got the backing, line, leader, and tippet. Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me? Thanks.

Well, first off, YD, if you stick around this newsgroup, you are gonna take a lot of flack and abuse about your name.  <G Welcome to ROFF.  By all means, YD, take the reel, backing, and line back to the dealer and have them put it on. They know the proper knots to connect the backing to the reel, the line to the backing.  For future ease of changing leaders, have them put in a loop to the end of the fly line so that you can make a loop to loop connection for your leader(s).  Some folks don’t like the loop to loop, but it is ideal for a newbie — no knots.   While your at the fly shop, have them teach you how to connect the tippet and how to tie on a fly.   If you have any problems, the folks on these pages are always willing to help. Good luck, YD, especially with your handle!  <g Louie

Response:

Hi gang, I am new to this group and to fly fishing. I have been spin fishing for trout and bass for the past 20 yrs. or so, and I have finally decided to give fly fishing a try! I recieved a 9′ #5/6 Redington rod and a #5/6 Redington reel as a Christmas gift. I also got the backing, line, leader, and tippet. Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me? Thanks.

Most shops have a motorized winder and if you bought the gear there, they’re more than happy to load the reel for you.  While they’re doing it, note the knots and methods they’re using.  The next one will be all yours.  :) Cheers Visit The Streamer Page at http://members.home.net/pcharles/streamers/index.html

Response:

Hi gang, I am new to this group and to fly fishing. I have been spin fishing for trout and bass for the past 20 yrs. or so, and I have finally decided to give fly fishing a try! I recieved a 9′ #5/6 Redington rod and a #5/6 Redington reel as a Christmas gift. I also got the backing, line, leader, and tippet. Should I attempt to fill the reel myself, or should I take it to shop where it was purchased and let them fill it for me? Thanks.

Response:

Question:

Do you know good river like Big Horn? I came from Italy to USA in August for flyfishing holiday. My trip start in Oregon for Wyoming and go-back. I know only the Umpqua and the Deschutes, the Big  Horn and Shoshone Ok for C&R. Thank you for informations Giovanni Bartolozzi  Il Martin Pescatore Mosca Club

Response:

I live in Bend, Oregon.  I can help you with lots of questions on fly fishing in Central Oregon.  I mostly do stillwater fishing. But can get answers to any questions you might have.  chow  gjbend

Response:

Will be in bend 1st week of April. Do you think davis Lake will be accessable and is a float tube adequate?

Response:

I think thats what the rumor is that Davis wood be accessable April 1.  I have my doubts tho.  I fished Fall River Tues. and the parking lot still has 2 feet of snow and had to park on the hwy.  Fall River and Crooked might be an option.  Actually, Chickahomany(sp) should be thawed and  ready too.  Good luck.

Response:

Geeez….would   not wood.  Saw that as I sent.  :(

Response:

How was fall river, BWO’s?

Response:

If the weathers keeps warm you might try BWO.  I used a #20 black midge with cdc wing that worked great. The fish were lightly nibbleing at the surface so just drifted fly about 2 inches below the surface.  If you have ever fished there you know what its like to watch the fish suck up your fly.

Response:

Question:

ugliest bearing remnant or piston rod (or maybe the alarm buzzer?) on the little display shelf that I call "The Chamber of Horrors."  It includes

At my house I call it the  "Hall of Shame" Iam gonna have it rebuildt. My first adventure will be  the trip back up river. I hope.. What kind of warrenty do you get on a rebuild? d mac

Response:

Yes, a humorous (to us!) post about a sad time, and we’ve all had them, but there is usually a valuable lesson-learned in any marine mishap, even on a small boat, and I found a good one buried in this one:  insure that critial alarms are audible or install remotes that will be.  Not to mention the other L RE-learned, that could’ve been more tragic in a river current: ground tackle is safety equipment!  Always know the water depths you’ll be traversing in advance (er, read a chart), and have sufficient scope (5 – 7 x depth) aboard & at the ready. Motor bearings, etc. are likely fried.  I’d fix it anyway, and put the ugliest bearing remnant or piston rod (or maybe the alarm buzzer?) on the little display shelf that I call "The Chamber of Horrors."  It includes such conversational items as a badly broken motorcycle helmet that came off my own head, a bolt fragment from inside a low suction valve bonnet that kept a chemical tanker in drydock for 3 extra days at a charter loss of millions, a stellite steam turbine blade that not only made it through the casing but pierced a forced-draft blower housing several stories higher, a peephole fitting that got buried in my fireman’s forehead (didn’t purge the furnace B4 lighting off after 38 years in the fireroom), the ring from my first marriage, and the empty envelope from the personal Christmas card Larry River$ painted for me that I accidently threw into the stove.

Response:

Fix the engine, and do the trip again to proof your wife wrong.  Just joking, but I will do the trip over myself.

Ha good point, I will finish it someday. d mac

Response:

I have no idea whats wrong but enjoyed reading your story….. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well for the last week of kids being out of school had a trip planned. Mini vacation, money tight end of summer one last cheap trip. I keep my boat at Paris Landing Tenn , stayed there a few nights and sat morning had planned for me wife 2 kids to go 50 miles to Toms creek on Tenn river to meet friends and there kids and stay  there 2 days and come back SUN…. Wife told me dont do it lets drive we know we will get there ..yang, yang, yang ect ect…… Nope Iam ready for a TRIP family time.. BOAT is a 86 28′Harris Pontoon  w/86 115 Johnson, OIL INJECTED  2nd owner, I have had 3 years nver gone anywere serviced once a year only used it once this year as in go for day. BOAT is slip kept.. 8AM SAt we take off have extra battery, cable, chart maps my 2 12 gallon tanks 20 more gallons of gas, oil reservier is FULL.. food, suit cases lots of cold beer for when I get there with my pardner , wives are good friends me and RON will kick back…. Off we go. Iam thinking hell Iam MANLY kinda guy looking for ADVENTURE!! Iam figurein  about a 3 hr trip running from 20 to 25mph.. ran my first tank out abouit a hour, was following bouys running red up river,things going good had a neat chart maps by TVA showe my marking ect.. I ran out of 1st tank of gas after about a hour changed to full tank 10 min later let son drive, he does fine 10 min later there is a CLANKing knocking nose, could tell motor was missing I started driving Talk about your a STUBBORN asshole  I TOLD YOU SO look from my wife….. I didn’t hear beeping nose(oiler beeps when not working)… no smoke , steam , smell… I cut off motor took off cover. I saw a cracked small hose that outlet that pumps water from engine to side of motor that lets you know water pump is working. I cut off bad hose pout back, this had nothing to do with problem. Engin was hot to touch.. well here I was with family floating Tenn River nobody around. what should I do? Just passed a god I know 3 wide 10 deep barge heading my way a few miles ago water dept is 40 feet in channel. My anchor ropw is 25..  I started motor back up, it was clanging more I could go forward just went slow. Fisherman came by I flagged him down he stopped, He asked me about oil told him it was 1/2 full. I cranked again he said its fixing to LOCK UP.. i shut if off.. let it cool cranked it again it just bumped didnt turn over.. HMmmm not good… we talked then I asked him the big one how far is closest mechinac.."About 5 miles that way,, I had a phone called info got marina "NOPE no one here  or gonna be here today but me" talk about being in  JAM… I told fisherman ID sure pay ya if you can tow me in… he had a RANGER 150  he said, "Ive been in your shoes before, you gotta rope?"  There is a GOD!! these fellow could have said see ya dont wanna be ya..  These  2 guys towed us a few miles told us  they had to stop saw fish in finder. They started fishing got into a mess of stripes, they cought 10 stripes it was great, wife and kids got a kick out of that… called folks we were on they were hour away they were on their way. When we got to dock and in slip I had $50 in my  hand and asked how much and the guy said "nothing the man didnt charge me anything and you just pass it on" I said please take this let me buy your lunch, take these 20 gallons of gas its not gonna do me any good. NOPE he didnt want nothing.. Well friends came picked us up (he to told me it was dumb to make the trip, so I HAD to listen to his remarks and rightfully so, I had screwed up his day driveing. We left boat over night, called had a friend pick up my trailor meet me there on SUN we picked it up now its in back yard.. END of story I had OIL in reseror tank, my water pump impeller replaced last year with cover off I can turn fly wheel about 4 turns and will turn  when starting but will come to stop and then will only bump unless your turn with had but will again come to stop and go no futher… Gonna have checked out, what ya think it is. Do I fix this motor or is it to OLD (86 Johnson 115) what could it be. d mac Tennessee

Response:

Sorry to hear your story.  Really sad, but at least you are ok. Fix the engine, and do the trip again to proof your wife wrong.  Just joking, but I will do the trip over myself. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well for the last week of kids being out of school had a trip planned. Mini vacation, money tight end of summer one last cheap trip. I keep my boat at Paris Landing Tenn , stayed there a few

Response:

Well for the last week of kids being out of school had a trip planned. Mini vacation, money tight end of summer one last cheap trip. I keep my boat at Paris Landing Tenn , stayed there a few nights and sat morning had planned for me wife 2 kids to go 50 miles to Toms creek on Tenn river to meet friends and there kids and stay  there 2 days and come back SUN…. Wife told me dont do it lets drive we know we will get there ..yang, yang, yang ect ect…… Nope Iam ready for a TRIP family time.. BOAT is a 86 28′Harris Pontoon  w/86 115 Johnson, OIL INJECTED  2nd owner, I have had 3 years nver gone anywere serviced once a year only used it once this year as in go for day. BOAT is slip kept.. 8AM SAt we take off have extra battery, cable, chart maps my 2 12 gallon tanks 20 more gallons of gas, oil reservier is FULL.. food, suit cases lots of cold beer for when I get there with my pardner , wives are good friends me and RON will kick back…. Off we go. Iam thinking hell Iam MANLY kinda guy looking for ADVENTURE!! Iam figurein  about a 3 hr trip running from 20 to 25mph.. ran my first tank out abouit a hour, was following bouys running red up river,things going good had a neat chart maps by TVA showe my marking ect.. I ran out of 1st tank of gas after about a hour changed to full tank 10 min later let son drive, he does fine 10 min later there is a CLANKing knocking nose, could tell motor was missing I started driving Talk about your a STUBBORN asshole  I TOLD YOU SO look from my wife….. I didn’t hear beeping nose(oiler beeps when not working)… no smoke , steam , smell… I cut off motor took off cover. I saw a cracked small hose that outlet that pumps water from engine to side of motor that lets you know water pump is working. I cut off bad hose pout back, this had nothing to do with problem. Engin was hot to touch.. well here I was with family floating Tenn River nobody around. what should I do? Just passed a god I know 3 wide 10 deep barge heading my way a few miles ago water dept is 40 feet in channel. My anchor ropw is 25..  I started motor back up, it was clanging more I could go forward just went slow. Fisherman came by I flagged him down he stopped, He asked me about oil told him it was 1/2 full. I cranked again he said its fixing to LOCK UP.. i shut if off.. let it cool cranked it again it just bumped didnt turn over.. HMmmm not good… we talked then I asked him the big one how far is closest mechinac.."About 5 miles that way,, I had a phone called info got marina "NOPE no one here  or gonna be here today but me" talk about being in  JAM… I told fisherman ID sure pay ya if you can tow me in… he had a RANGER 150  he said, "Ive been in your shoes before, you gotta rope?"  There is a GOD!! these fellow could have said see ya dont wanna be ya..  These  2 guys towed us a few miles told us  they had to stop saw fish in finder. They started fishing got into a mess of stripes, they cought 10 stripes it was great, wife and kids got a kick out of that… called folks we were on they were hour away they were on their way. When we got to dock and in slip I had $50 in my  hand and asked how much and the guy said "nothing the man didnt charge me anything and you just pass it on" I said please take this let me buy your lunch, take these 20 gallons of gas its not gonna do me any good. NOPE he didnt want nothing.. Well friends came picked us up (he to told me it was dumb to make the trip, so I HAD to listen to his remarks and rightfully so, I had screwed up his day driveing. We left boat over night, called had a friend pick up my trailor meet me there on SUN we picked it up now its in back yard.. END of story I had OIL in reseror tank, my water pump impeller replaced last year with cover off I can turn fly wheel about 4 turns and will turn  when starting but will come to stop and then will only bump unless your turn with had but will again come to stop and go no futher… Gonna have checked out, what ya think it is. Do I fix this motor or is it to OLD (86 Johnson 115) what could it be. d mac Tennessee

Response:

Question:

A great knot.  I use it for building leaders and for joining tippets.  Easy to tie, and very strong.  I loop it three times on both pieces. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides me? Tinca

Response:

Not sure I recall uni-knots exactly, but I use what I was taught to call "double-grinners" (british term) which may be the same thing. Bulkier than blood-knot but against steelhead they help me.   Easy to tie – after the 600-th time.           -rork.

: A great knot.  I use it for building leaders and for joining tippets.  Easy : to tie, and very strong.  I loop it three times on both pieces. : One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the : double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides : me? : Tinca

Response:

Not sure I recall uni-knots exactly, but I use what I was taught to call "double-grinners" (british term) which may be the same thing. Bulkier than blood-knot but against steelhead they help me.   Easy to tie – after the 600-th time.

How bout some instructions for the colonists Lou B

Response:

Well give the bleeding unit-knot instructions first  :) Really, I was gonna describe it but it is hard to describe knots for me: Double Grinner:     wrap the tag end of strand a around b, about 3-5 times (not so important, just gets some twist set-up).  Bring the tag end back to the start of the wraps – this makes a loop which you now put the tag end through 3-5 times (smaller lines=more times).  You are making the second set of wraps in the same direction and handedness as the first set.    That makes one half of the knot, do the same for the other half as for any knot in the fisherman’s/blood-knot family.  Pull the two ends tight againt each other.  I partially tighted each side first – they "turn inside out" like lotsa other monofilament knots.  I think it’s mentioned in "The trout and the fly".  - also a colonist. Soon out in paper-back:     my decription of the modified Krey’s-improved bimini-twist……

Response:

One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides me?

This is the knot I always use. I also use the Uni(Duncan Loop) for my terminal connection. I have rarely had any problems with breakage at the terminal connection and the only time I have had a break at the tippet/leader was in breaking off a snag. I can not imagine any weakening with the Uni-knot joining the two pieces of line. With the wraps snugging up it seems to be very secure. Also, it is easy! regards, jw        J. Webb (Preferred)    |    Atlanta Mac User Group         jwebb *AT* netdepot *DOT* com |joe_webb *AT* atlmug *DOT* org

Response:

nothing to beat the uni knot for any thing – greta knot for night fishingas you can tie it with your eyes closed. One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides me?

– Tinca

Response:

I’ve done my own tests on several knots, and I really don’t know where this nonsense about the blood knot being stronger than surgeons comes from. None of my tests have ever shown this, and most books I’ve seen confirm this. One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides me?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I’ve done my own tests on several knots, and I really don’t know where this nonsense about the blood knot being stronger than surgeons comes from. None of my tests have ever shown this, and most books I’ve seen confirm this. One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides me? I’ve done my own tests on several knots, and I really don’t know where this nonsense about the blood knot being stronger than surgeons comes from. None of my tests have ever shown this, and most books I’ve seen confirm this. One knot that you don’t see much of for line-to-line connections is the double or "back-to-back" uni-knot.  Has anybody tried this one besides me?

Yeah, I use the uni-knot all the time Bryce

Response:

Mark asks: Hello, Does anyone have any suggestions for  a good strong relatively easy to tie knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  as well as the fly.  When I’m nymph fishing I feel like I spend a great amount of time standing in the creek attaching new tippets.  I switched to a Filson knot to attach the fly to the tippet since I found it was stronger than a clinch knot. I hate the idea of switching to a weaker terminal knot just to save having to retie the tippet each time I hang up, which as you know can be lot.    Has anynone else had this experience and what is the solution.   Thanks, Mark Watson

Mark, I feel there is another issue maybe, buried in here….. that is the *quality* of how one ties a knot….  A poorly tied knot is much weaker than it should be.   I feel several of the knots mentioned ought to get you out of your problem, yet from the post …. seems that doesn’t occur….. makes me think there is a "hidden variable"…. that is the quality of the knot itself and not the design of the knot…..   For "barrel" or blood knots a couple of things… never tie with more than one or 2 thousands difference in the diameters of the leader end and the tippet… otherwise use the loop or the surgeon’s knot…. make the starter set of windings of the blood knot even and unkinked with the two ends pointing in opposite directions.   Wet the total bundle (good ole spit)  and smoothly but firmly pull them taut.   clip excess ends. In teaching this knot to others I have found many who try to pull the knot taut without wetting it or with the preloops not neat and unkinked….   Pratice at home with light tippet and test with a scale until you achieve about 90 % consistently for several knots… Good luck, Alan Alan E. Hoover       to quote one of my favorite authors: "Fly fishing is such great fun, it really ought to be done in bed"  John Voelker, aka Robert Traver

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mark asks: Hello, Does anyone have any suggestions for  a good strong relatively easy to tie knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  as well as the fly.  When I’m nymph fishing I feel like I spend a great amount of time standing in the creek attaching new tippets.  I switched to a Filson knot to attach the fly to the tippet since I found it was stronger than a clinch knot. I hate the idea of switching to a weaker terminal knot just to save having to retie the tippet each time I hang up, which as you know can be lot.    Has anynone else had this experience and what is the solution.   Thanks, Mark Watson

So much good information has come from this post that I hate to even introduce this, but does anyone else other than me use a little dab of Zap-A-Gap on the knots just to make sure? It’s a cyanoacrylate glue much like crazy glue and only takes a few seconds to dry. Maybe it’s a crude remedy but I got tired of losing the fly, tippet, and even more so the fish. — Frank Tosczak

Response:

  There are several terminal mono knots that are "100% strength" knots   (e.g. Trilene knot).     I’ve never seen a test of the trilene knot that rated it 100% – but   it maybe stronger than either a blood or double surgeon. the best you can get out of a blood knot (6 or more barrels) is around 75%.  Surgeon’s is better.  The trilene and I believe the double turle are supposed to be full strength.

FWIW I checked my copy of Lefty kreh/ Mark Sosin’s Pratical Knots II ; the improved clinch was reported to test out at no better than 95%, the Trilene was listed as ’stronger’ than an improved clinch. A Palomar knot was said to be near 100%. The double surgeon loop or it’s half brother the double surgeon were both reported to provide near 100%. The only full 100% knots listed were the doubled loops such as the Bimini twist and the snelled hooks beloved of bait fishers. Ralph H

Response:

  FWIW I checked my copy of Lefty kreh/ Mark Sosin’s Pratical Knots II ;   the improved clinch was reported to test out at no better than 95%, the   Trilene was listed as ’stronger’ than an improved clinch. A Palomar knot was   said to be near 100%. The double surgeon loop or it’s half brother the double   surgeon were both reported to provide near 100%.

Ok, so the trilene knot is 95% strength according to your source. My source says full-strength.  There is no difference between these claims.  Experimental uncertainty would easily cover such a trivial difference. As for the double surgeon’s knot, I really don’t think it is even close to 100%.  If it were, is that to say that the "triple surgeon’s" knot is redundant?  I can easily be wrong.  But the flyfisherman article I recall claimed that the best line-to-line knots are still <90% – including the double surgeons etc.  Again, I could easily be wrong.  My own experience with all these line-to-line knots confirms that they are weaker than terminal knots.  But who am I to argue with Lefty kreh eh? Anyway, I don’t get too worried about all this.  I use =8lb test and the only time I ever break my line is when I screw up and do something dumbassed on a fish or when I get snagged.  I don’t think that my 14′ 9wt rod is even capable of breaking 8lb test line. By the way, for anyone interested, the virtual flyshop (www.flyshop.com I think) has a nice set of drawings on how to tie any of the knots mentioned in this discussion. cheers,         -tgades (a good-old 6-barrel bloodknot aficionado) — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –   the double surgeon should be stronger than the knot to the fly if tied   properly. Be sure to wet the knot tighten slowly and DO NOT tighten apply the   final tightening pull to the tag ends only to the main line. Tightening the   tag ends binds the main line and considerably weakens the knot.   Ralph H There are several terminal mono knots that are "100% strength" knots (e.g. Trilene knot).  While strong, I don’t think I’ve seen results of tests of any line-to-line knots (including the double surgeon) that can do 100%. cheers,        -tgades

I’ve never seen a test of the trilene knot that rated it 100% – but it maybe stronger than either a blood or double surgeon. By the way welcome back, how was your trip to the balmy south. Ralph H

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I’ve used the barrel knot for years with a Turl (sp?) Knot for fly connection and it’s always worked well.  Is it that you don’t want to tie a barrel knot???  Or that your barrel knot is breaking?   Or that you are using a knot to connect the fly that is a stronger knot than the barrel knot?

The basic problem is that the knot the knot I’ve been using to attach the fly (a filson knot) is much stronger than any barrel or double surgeons I’ve been able to tie.  Previously I always used a clinch knot for the fly, but I found a stronger knot for the terminal end, so I was hoping to find one for the tippet/leader junction.    (I also dislike tying the barrell knot especially in the late evening when fish are rising all around and its hard to see) I could solve my problem by switching back to a weaker knot to attach the fly.  From the sound of some of the other posters that sounds like the way to go, but I was hoping that someone would have a better solution. Thanks again, Mark Watson

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’ve used the barrel knot for years with a Turl (sp?) Knot for fly connection and it’s always worked well.  Is it that you don’t want to tie a barrel knot???  Or that your barrel knot is breaking?   Or that you are using a knot to connect the fly that is a stronger knot than the barrel knot? Barry Hello, Does anyone have any suggestions for  a good strong relatively easy to tie knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  as well as the fly.  When I’m nymph fishing I feel like I spend a great amount of time standing in the creek attaching new tippets.  I switched to a Filson knot to attach the fly to the tippet since I found it was stronger than a clinch knot. I hate the idea of switching to a weaker terminal knot just to save having to retie the tippet each time I hang up, which as you know can be lot.    Has anynone else had this experience and what is the solution. Thanks, Mark Watson

I use a loop to loop connection, with a loop knot the name of which I can’t recall, but it’s in lefty kreh and mark sosin’s knot book.  I use a clinch knot for the fly connection, and that almost always breaks first.  Even if it doesn’t, the knot that breaks is the tippet side of the loop to loop, so I just make a new tippet, and attach it, with no overall leader length loss.  Works great, you should try it. — Andrew Brunette

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   There are several terminal mono knots that are "100% strength" knots    (e.g. Trilene knot).  While strong, I don’t think I’ve seen results of    tests of any line-to-line knots (including the double surgeon) that    can do 100%.        cheers,                -tgades       I’ve never seen a test of the trilene knot that rated it 100% – but   it maybe stronger than either a blood or double surgeon.

the best you can get out of a blood knot (6 or more barrels) is around 75%.  Surgeon’s is better.  The trilene and I believe the double turle are supposed to be full strength.   By the way welcome back, how was your trip to the balmy south.

The Antarctic field season (nov,dec,jan) was very good and productive, though the weather was poor this year and we spent a total of 30+days waiting for flights in the field. The fishing in NZ (24Jan-5Mar) was excellent once again.  After 4 years in a row fishing for a month or more in NZ, it seems more and more fun.  I’ll likely be heading back once again next year.  I’ll let you know when I scan in a few pics from the 98 NZ season.  I caught some tremendous browns this year.  I still have a few pictures from last year:         http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/NZ/NZ_97.html Since I’ve been home I’ve hooked 2 steelhead, landed 1.  I scanned a picture of this beautiful native hen.  It is at the top of my fish page:         http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html cheers,         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

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  the double surgeon should be stronger than the knot to the fly if tied   properly. Be sure to wet the knot tighten slowly and DO NOT tighten apply the   final tightening pull to the tag ends only to the main line. Tightening the   tag ends binds the main line and considerably weakens the knot.   Ralph H

There are several terminal mono knots that are "100% strength" knots (e.g. Trilene knot).  While strong, I don’t think I’ve seen results of tests of any line-to-line knots (including the double surgeon) that can do 100%. cheers,         -tgades — Tony Gades. Seattle, WA.  USA http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades http://weber.u.washington.edu/~tgades/Fishing/fish_page.html email: replace the "this_address_is_wrong" with "tgades"

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Hello, Does anyone have any suggestions for  a good strong relatively easy to tie knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  

the double surgeon should be stronger than the knot to the fly if tied properly. Be sure to wet the knot tighten slowly and DO NOT tighten apply the final tightening pull to the tag ends only to the main line. Tightening the tag ends binds the main line and considerably weakens the knot. Ralph H

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Hello, Does anyone have any suggestions for  a good strong relatively easy to tie knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  as well as the fly.  When I’m nymph fishing I feel like I spend a great amount of time standing in the creek attaching new tippets.  I switched to a Filson knot to attach the fly to the tippet since I found it was stronger than a clinch knot. I hate the idea of switching to a weaker terminal knot just to save having to retie the tippet each time I hang up, which as you know can be lot.    Has anynone else had this experience and what is the solution.   Thanks, Mark Watson

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  as well as the fly.  When I’m nymph fishing I feel like I spend a great amount of time standing in the creek attaching new tippets.  I switched to a Filson knot to attach the fly to the tippet since I found it was stronger than a clinch knot. I hate the idea of switching to a weaker terminal knot just to save having to retie the tippet each time I hang up, which as you know can be lot.    Has anynone else had this experience and what is the solution.   Thanks, Mark Watson

Hi Mark. Depending on how much time I have, I’ll use the Blood Knot or the Double Surgeon’s Knot. The Blood Knot takes longer to tie, but is stronger, so I use it when I’m rigging before I go to the river. If I’m on the stream and I get a wind knot that I can’t untie very close to the tippet/leader knot, they I’ll cut off my existing tippet and use a Double Surgeon’s Knot to put a new one on. That’s just what I use. Bryce    

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I’ve used the barrel knot for years with a Turl (sp?) Knot for fly connection and it’s always worked well.  Is it that you don’t want to tie a barrel knot???  Or that your barrel knot is breaking?   Or that you are using a knot to connect the fly that is a stronger knot than the barrel knot? Barry – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hello, Does anyone have any suggestions for  a good strong relatively easy to tie knot for attaching a tippet to a leader.  I know the traditional barrel and double surgens knots.  The problem I’ve been having, which is quite irritating, is the knot that attaches the tippet is weaker than the one attaching the fly, so when I hang up the tippet breaks off  as well as the fly.  When I’m nymph fishing I feel like I spend a great amount of time standing in the creek attaching new tippets.  I switched to a Filson knot to attach the fly to the tippet since I found it was stronger than a clinch knot. I hate the idea of switching to a weaker terminal knot just to save having to retie the tippet each time I hang up, which as you know can be lot.    Has anynone else had this experience and what is the solution. Thanks, Mark Watson

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Question:

My wife and I attended a 4-day Orvis flyfishing class at Clearwater House in July five years ago.  We had Orvis instructors (Dan Gracia, who posts to this group, was one) rather than the Clearwater House guides, but the "hearsay" I have since picked up from time to time has been positive.  I can attest that the accomodations are nice, the location is great, and that when we were there the food was excellent.  If you go, please tell me how it turned out.                        Dopug Larson, Glendale, CA

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I also cannot say enough about Clearwater House.  I’ve stayed there three times before and have booked two classes there for the upcoming year.  The staff and guides are excellent!  The Area is beautiful, and the house itself has a terrific "homey" feeling.  If you’re thinking of staying there … do it! Kim Woodward – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you have stayed at the Clearwater House on Hat Creek, I would appreciate feedback regarding the guides, fishing experience, lodging and food. Thanks!  S. Brainerd

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(Sherry Brainerd) writes: If you have stayed at the Clearwater House on Hat Creek, I would appreciate feedback regarding the guides, fishing experience, lodging and food.

We run some of our schools at the Clearwater House and I have to tell you the place is first rate.  It’s basically a bed and breakfast type place that caters to fly fishers and serves all meals, not just breakfast.  Noel and company set entirely too good a table and the setting is really pretty – nestled in between Mt Shasta and Mt. Lassen.  Last year had a friendly raven (the bird) that would fly down to your feet and walk around with you for a while.  I reached out towards it and it tried to remove my wedding ring off of my finger with its beak.  Lot’s of wildlife such as deer, osprey, Canada geese, muskrat, otters, etc.  Good fishing is right out the back door and you can fish Hat Creek, The Pit River, Fall River, the McCloud River or float tube if you like up at Lake Manzanita.  Great spot.  All of Dick’s guides are top rate.  If you have a copy of the latest California Fly Fisher, the young lady on the cover is not quite as young as she looks.  Marishka is ~20 and went through Dick’s apprentice guide program a couple of years ago.  She still guides for him periodically and she is an accomplished fly fisher, fly tyer, and guide.  Don’t hesitate to ask about the various guides specialties as they bring a wide variety of techniques to fishing the available water.  I’ve actually stayed in the house twice in the last 5 years, and it’s a far cry from the "guides ghetto" (next to the their tackle shop) where I usually bunk.  It is the only Orvis Endorsed Lodge in California.  If you get a chance to go, GO! Don’t eat too much and watch out for that bottomless jar of homemade chocolate chip or oatmeal raisin cookies.                                                           Dan Dan Gracia                                                               Orvis West Coast Fly Fishing Schools If you kill that big fish you can’t catch ‘em again.  So what if they eat other fish?  If you kill the big ones there will only be little ones left (funny how that works!).

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If you have stayed at the Clearwater House on Hat Creek, I would appreciate feedback regarding the guides, fishing experience, lodging and food. Thanks!  S. Brainerd

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If you have stayed at the Clearwater House on Hat Creek, I would appreciate feedback regarding the guides, fishing experience, lodging and food.

Nothing but good things to say about Dick Galland and Clearwater. I stayed there many years ago before the present arrangement (with cooking and all) but even then, thought the hospitality and advice was excellent. I see Dick occassionally when walking the path near his place while fishing the waters nearby.                 Draper, Utah Wherever you go….. There you will be

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Question:

Why they are fishing with a bamboo shaped rod and not with an original ??

Modern graphite rods can cast considerably farther than bamboo, and the long false-casts made the casting scenes more dramatic, especially to non-flyfisher folks. They are much better and softer than these plastic rods.

Thats a strong statement.   Fish and fishing-waters come in all shapes, sizes, and characteristics.   There is hardly one best rod. You can serve the fly much softer…

Nice when needed, but what about techniques that require hard presentations? Also (an example), many steelhead rivers in the pacific northwest are large and fast – soft presentations are a don’t care, but long casts with potentially large flies are very useful. … and for some special technics I don’t know the name in english (when you have to feel the bite …

Nymphing?   Hard or soft, don’t care.   Sensitive, do care! … or you want to lead the fly against the flow) …

Many "swinging" techniques including wet fly swings, greased-line, lifts, etc.  It’s very debatable whether soft or hard is better. In Germany most of the good fly-fisher are fishing with bamboo-rods. What is it in USA ??

Many serious fly fisherman I know own bamboo (often lots of), but most only use them for "mood" or nostalgic moments, usually accompanied by a pipe or cigar, and possibly some whisky. I certainly enjoyed casting three different bamboo rods, and have my sights on buying some bamboo, but right or wrong, am spoiled and won’t give up my graphite. Thomas Gilg

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Some technical things in the movie were done beautifully.  Powell made bamboo shaped graphite rods to look like the originals,  and even matched all of the rod decorations, windings, etc., and the special lines that would show up on film were spectacular.   Why they are fishing with a bamboo shaped rod and not with an original ??

The main reason seems to be that the original Montague 8 1/2" 4 1/2 oz bamboos are now very rare and *very* valuable.  In the movie they only used Montagues for close ups and for shots where they needed the slower action of the cane rod.  They did not want to break any rods when playing buckets full of rocks or even when fighting "Fernando", the model fish. Denbigh

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| They are much better and softer than these plastic rods. | | Thats a strong statement.   Fish and fishing-waters come in all shapes, | sizes, and characteristics.   There is hardly one best rod. | | You can serve the fly much softer… | | Nice when needed, but what about techniques that require hard presentations? | | Also (an example), many steelhead rivers in the pacific northwest are | large and fast – soft presentations are a don’t care, but long casts | with potentially large flies are very useful. Yes you are right. Here in Germany we dont’t have these large fast rivers and no steeelhaeds. We have small rivers with with good natural grayling and trout populations. So for this ‘fine’ fishing I think they are the best choice because of their soft and special action that you can’t reach with artificial rods. | | … and for some special technics I don’t know the name in english (when | you have to feel the bite … | | Nymphing?   Hard or soft, don’t care.   Sensitive, do care! Yes, it’s a kind of nymphing. | … or you want to lead the fly against the flow) … | | Many "swinging" techniques including wet fly swings, greased-line, | lifts, etc.  It’s very debatable whether soft or hard is better. For wet fly it’s O.K.. But I mean for dry fly you need a in your words ’sensitive’ (excuse my english) rod and a good technik to imitate a fly running up the stream. Otherwise your fly is diving like a submarine. | | In Germany most of the good fly-fisher are fishing with bamboo-rods. | What is it in USA ?? | | Many serious fly fisherman I know own bamboo (often lots of), but most | only use them for "mood" or nostalgic moments, usually accompanied by | a pipe or cigar, and possibly some whisky. | | I certainly enjoyed casting three different bamboo rods, and have my | sights on buying some bamboo, but right or wrong, am spoiled and won’t | give up my graphite. | | Thomas Gilg Sure it has something nostalgic, maybe I am nostalgic too. I think you will agree with me when I say flyfishing is more than a hi-tec sport and not only the facts make you (and me) to buy a bamboo rod. And as longer I fish it’s more the fish in the water which fascinates me than the fish in my bag. It’s like the last sentence in Sherley Mc Lanes roman. In German it’s "Ich werde von Wassern verfolgt.". In english it has to be something like this: "I am followed by waters."       Olaf <Olaf Lindner                      | Technical University of Berlin    

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etc. It’s like the last sentence in Sherley Mc Lanes roman. In German it’s "Ich werde von Wassern verfolgt.". In english it has to be something like this: "I am followed by waters."       Olaf

My soul cringes at the thought of Shirley McLane (sp?) writing about fly fishing.  A River Runs Through It was written by *Norman* Maclean. Shirley M. is a weird US actress with strong views on her previous lives; Norman M. was very different. Incidentally, in the original he wrote "haunted" not "followed." Denbigh

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Olaf Lindner writes: A friend of mine has 15 bamboo-rods, all made by Bjarne Fries probably the best bamboo-rod builder in the world each about 1200$.

Olaf if your friend had graphite instead of bamboo he could probable cover the same range of fishing situations with 6 to 8 rods at rather than 15.  Graphite has greater latitude.  He’d also have $12,000 to go to New Zealand.  I know where I’ll spend my money.

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| | Olaf if your friend had graphite instead of bamboo he could probable cover | the same range of fishing situations with 6 to 8 rods at rather than 15.   That’s true but the point is not the range of fishing situations than the specia l action of a well built split cane rod. I see that this is a very dificult theme and at the end a personal decision. | Graphite has greater latitude.  He’d also have $12,000 to go to New Zealand.  I know | where I’ll spend my money. Hope you have fun. Olaf (Excuse me about the mistake with the names ‘Sherley’ and ‘Norman’. I don’t know  who it (Sherley) is (I only heard the name sometimes in the TV) but it sounds t errible.) — <Olaf Lindner                      | Technical University of Berlin    

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Why they are fishing with a bamboo shaped rod and not with an original ??

Thomas J. Gilg’s response to Olaf Lindner is right on the mark.  The only thing I can add is that bamboo rod’s are wonderful for small eastern spring creeks with lot’s of brush overhead.  Maybe Olaf is faced with kind of situation.   One other thought is that not every bamboo rod is good.  I’ve cast lots of junk.  Good rods seem to start at around $1000 (new or old).  The collection craze has recently driven the price of bamboo rods out of sight good and bad.  I’ve seen people at shows pay +$400 for a machine made japanese piece of junk.  I just can’t justify paying +$1000 for a rod that for all it’s beauty will be out performed by a rod of 1/3 to 1/2 the price.

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Some technical things in the movie were done beautifully.  Powell made bamboo shaped graphite rods to look like the originals,  and even matched all of the rod decorations, windings, etc., and the special lines that would show up on film were spectacular.  

Why they are fishing with a bamboo shaped rod and not with an original ?? They are much better and softer than these plastic rods. I got my first Spilt Cane rod on a Fly-Fishing congress in Germany these Spring for 800,- DM (about 500$). A friend of mine has 15 bamboo-rods, all made by Bjarne Fries probably the best bamboo-rod builder in the world each about 1200$. O.K. I agree with you when you say that’s crazy but Most people who have fished with one of these rods they will never again take these plastics. You can serve the fly much softer and for some special technics I don’t know the name in english (when you have to feel the bite or you want to lead the fly against the flow) they are probably the best choice because they are so soft and have and have a very special action. In Germany most of the good fly-fisher are fishing with bamboo-rods. What is it in USA ?? Olaf — <Olaf Lindner                      | Technical University of Berlin    

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